[Senate Hearing 105-686] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] S. Hrg. 105-686 NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE'S MANAGEMENT OF RADIATION STUDIES ======================================================================= HEARING before the PERMANENT SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS of the COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS UNITED STATES SENATE ONE HUNDRED FIFTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION __________ SEPTEMBER 16, 1998 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Governmental Affairs ----------- U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 51-644 CC WASHINGTON : 1998 _______________________________________________________________________ For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, DC 20402 COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS FRED THOMPSON, Tennessee, Chairman WILLIAM V. ROTH, Jr., Delaware JOHN GLENN, Ohio TED STEVENS, Alaska CARL LEVIN, Michigan SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi ROBERT G. TORRICELLI, DON NICKLES, Oklahoma New Jersey ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania MAX CLELAND, Georgia Hannah S. Sistare, Staff Director and Counsel Leonard Weiss, Minority Staff Director Lynn L. Baker, Chief Clerk ------ PERMANENT SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine, Chairman WILLIAM V. ROTH, Jr., Delaware JOHN GLENN, Ohio TED STEVENS, Alaska CARL LEVIN, Michigan SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois DON NICKLES, Oklahoma ROBERT G. TORRICELLI, New Jersey ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania MAX CLELAND, Georgia Timothy J. Shea, Chief Counsel and Staff Director David McKean, Minority Staff Director Pamela Marple, Minority Chief Counsel Mary D. Robertson, Chief Clerk C O N T E N T S ------ Opening statements: Page Senator Collins.............................................. 1 Senator Glenn................................................ 3 Senator Durbin............................................... 23 WITNESSES Wednesday, September 16, 1998 Hon. Tom Harkin, a U.S. Senator from the State of Iowa........... 6 F. Owen Hoffman, Ph.D., President, SENES Oak Ridge, Inc., Center for Risk Analysis, Consultant to the National Cancer Institute's Study, Oak Ridge, Tennessee........................ 12 Barry L. Johnson, Ph.D., Assistant Surgeon General, Assistant Administrator, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, Department of Health and Human Services; accompanied by Jeffrey Lybarger, M.D., Director, Division of Health Studies 15 Bruce Wachholz, Ph.D., Chief, Radiation Effects Branch, National Cancer Institute............................................... 28 Richard D. Klausner, M.D., Director, National Cancer Institute, National Institutes of Health, Department of Health and Human Services....................................................... 30 William F. Raub, Ph.D., Deputy Assistant Secretary for Science Policy, Department of Health and Human Services................ 31 Alphabetical List of Witnesses Harkin, Hon. Tom: Testimony.................................................... 6 Prepared Statement........................................... 45 Hoffman, F. Owen, Ph.D.: Testimony.................................................... 12 Prepared Statement........................................... 48 Johnson, Barry L., Ph.D.: Testimony.................................................... 15 Prepared Statement........................................... 61 Klausner, Richard D., M.D.: Testimony.................................................... 30 Prepared Statement........................................... 75 Raub, William F., Ph.D.: Testimony.................................................... 31 Prepared Statement........................................... 87 Wachholz, Bruce, Ph.D.: Testimony.................................................... 28 APPENDIX Exhibit List for September 16, 1998 Hearing * May be found in the files of the Subcommittee Page............................................................. 1a. GEstimated Exposures and Thyroid Doses Received by the American People from Iodine-131 in Fallout Following Nevada Atmospheric Nuclear Bomb Tests, A Report from the National Cancer Institute, October 1997, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, National Institutes of Health.................. * b. GNational Cancer Institute maps of exposure, State of Maine: GChart 1: ``Estimates of I-131 thyroid doses (rad) for persons born on January 1, 1952: (Average diet; average milk consumption)''................................................. 90 GChart 2: ``Estimates of I-131 thyroid doses (rad) for persons born on January 1, 1952: (Average diet; high milk consumption)''................................................. 91 GChart 3: ``Estimates of I-131 thyroid doses (rad) for persons born on January 1, 1952: (Average diet; milk from `backyard cow')''.............................................. 92 c. GNational Cancer Institute maps of exposure, States of Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Illinois, Kansas, Michigan, Mississippi, New Jersey, New Mexico, Ohio, Oklahoma, and Pennsylvania with ``Estimates of I-131 thyroid doses (rad) for personal born on January 1, 1952 (Average diet; average milk consumption/high milk consumption/milk from `backyard cow')''........................................................ * 2. GTimeline of Events, National Cancer Institute's I-131 Report 93 3. GMemoranda prepared by Robert Roach, Senior Counsel to the Minority; Beth Stein, Counsel to the Minority; and William McDaniel, Investigator to the Minority, Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, dated October 1998, regarding ``PSI Hearing on the National Cancer Institute's Management of Radiation Health Effects Research''...................................... 95 4. GSubmission for the Record of Drs. David Rush and H. Jack Geiger, Physicians for Social Responsibility................... 746 5. GSubmission for the Record of Paul Gilman, Ph.D., National Research Council, Commission of Life Sciences.................. 765 6. GMaterial regarding the 3-5 year budgets for the Chernobyl studies, submitted by Dr. Richard Klausner, Director, National Cancer Institute............................................... 767 7. GSubmission for the Record of The Hon. Ted Stevens, a U.S. Senator from the State of Alaska, regarding radiation exposure on Amchitka workers............................................ 771 8. GSubmission for the Record of the Alliance for Nuclear Accountability................................................. 817 9. GSubmission for the Record of Chuck Broscious, Executive Director, Environmental Defense Institute...................... 827 10. GSubmission for the Record of Tim Connor, Chairman, Subcommittee for Community Affairs, Advisory Committee For Energy-Related Epidemiologic Research.......................... 830 11. GSubmission for the Record of Trisha T. Pritikin, a citizen member of the community subcommittee to the Advisory Committee on Energy Related Epidemiologic Research....................... 843 12. GSubmission for the Record of Kathleen M. Tucker, President, Health and Energy Institute.................................... 854 13. GPublic Law 97-414, Sec. 7(a) (January 4, 1983).............. 893 NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE'S MANAGEMENT OF RADIATION STUDIES ---------- WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 16, 1998 U.S. Senate, Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, of the Committee on Governmental Affairs, Washington, DC. The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:38 a.m., in room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Susan M. Collins, Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding. Present: Senators Collins, Glenn, and Durbin. Staff Present: Timothy J. Shea, Chief Counsel/Staff Director; Mary D. Robertson, Chief Clerk; Pamela Marple, Minority Chief Counsel; David McKean, Minority Staff Director; Bob Roach, Counsel to the Minority; Beth Stein, Counsel to the Minority; Bill McDaniel, Investigator to Minority; John Neumann, Investigator (Detailee, GAO); Kirk E. Walder, Investigator; Lindsey E. Ledwin, Staff Assistant; Felicia Knight (Sen. Collins); Chris Dockerty, (Sen. Thompson); Kevin Mathias (Sen. Specter); Len Weiss (Governmental Affairs/Sen. Glenn); Marianne Upton, (Sen. Durbin); Lynn Kimmerly and Donna Berry (Sen. Cleland); Gabriel Goldstein (Sen. Lieberman); and Antigone Popamianos (Sen. Levin). OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLLINS Senator Collins. The Subcommittee will please come to order. Today, the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations will examine the National Cancer Institute's management of an important scientific study which assessed the radiation effects of nuclear weapons tests. This hearing is the result of an investigation initiated and led by the Ranking Minority Member, the distinguished Senator from Ohio. Senator John Glenn and his staff should be commended for their work on this investigation, which expanded on an earlier effort by two of our colleagues. This matter was first raised by Senators Arlen Specter and Tom Harkin at a Senate Appropriations Subcommittee hearing held in October 1997, and I want to commend them for their leadership as well. Our focus this morning is on one particularly significant government study that assessed the exposure of the American people to radiation from government nuclear weapons testing in the 1950's, a study that took 14 years to complete. We will explore whether or not management problems delayed this report, and if so, how to ensure that such problems do not affect future studies managed by the National Cancer Institute or the Department of Health and Human Services. By way of background, in 1983, the Congress directed the Department of Health and Human Services to assess the potential exposure of the American people to Iodine-131, one of the radioactive elements in the fallout from aboveground nuclear tests. Assessing the health risks facing the public as a result of this exposure was also part of this directive. The Department delegated the task of conducting this review to the National Cancer Institute, which finally released its lengthy study in October 1997. The findings in the NCI study were sobering, to say the least. Besides the known areas of contamination around the Nevada test site, the data showed that many other parts of the country were also contaminated because weather patterns at the time disbursed radioactive material across America. For some of the nuclear tests, the report found, people as far away as Aroostook County, Maine, where I was born and grew up, may have received as much exposure to radiation as people living in Nevada and Utah. It came as a real shock to me when I read this part of the report and looked at the maps that outline the States that had received the highest radiation exposure. In addition, individuals who were young children at the time of the testing and who drank large quantities of locally produced milk received significantly higher concentrations of radiation than did adults in the same area. This investigation raises important policy questions about openness and trust in government. Did the Federal Government fulfill its duty to report its findings to the American people? Specifically, why was the report published 14 years after it was commissioned and without the important public health information about the risk of cancer associated with the aboveground nuclear tests? Did the Department of Health and Human Services fulfill its duty to see that this study was done in a complete and timely manner, as directed by Congress? And, finally, what are the public health implications of this study as assessed by the report published by the National Academy of Sciences? The survival of public institutions in a democracy depends on the public's trust and faith in them--in their competence, their integrity, and their fundamental honesty. Studies with potentially significant health implications must be communicated to the American people as soon as possible to ensure public confidence in the Federal agencies responsible for such areas. To explore the issues surrounding this radiation study, we will hear from several witnesses this morning. Our first witness is the distinguished Senator from Iowa, Senator Tom Harkin. He has a deeply personal interest in this matter and also serves as the Ranking Minority Member of the Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, Subcommittee of the Appropriations Subcommittee. Our next panel of witnesses consists of Dr. Owen Hoffman and Dr. Barry Johnson, who will testify about the significance of the NCI's findings on the radiation resulting from nuclear weapons testing. We will then hear from Dr. Bruce Wachholz, the NCI official who managed the radiation study, who will address why the NCI took 14 years to issue the report. Our final witness this morning is Dr. William Raub, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Science Policy and Science Advisor to the Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services. We look forward to hearing all of this testimony. Before recognizing the distinguished Senator from Ohio, I would like to set the record straight about certain representations that have been made to the press about this investigation and hearing. I was concerned to read in one report that ``a Senate panel'' suggested that the project director in this case had a conflict of interest and that ``a U.S. Senate investigation'' reached a final conclusion about this matter before this hearing. Let me make clear that no such finding has been made and no such conclusions have been reached. Indeed, that is why we are here today. That is the purpose of this hearing, and we are here to listen to the evidence and explore the facts with an open mind. Certainly, there have been no findings or conclusions reached by this Subcommittee, and I just want the record to be clear on those matters. As I mentioned earlier, this investigation was directed, initiated, and led by the minority staff, and Senator Glenn may have more to say about this issue. At this time, I would like to recognize my colleague, the distinguished Senator from Ohio, Senator Glenn, for any comments that he might have. OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR GLENN Senator Glenn. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. The problems here started back 40-some years ago, back in the days of the Cold War, and over the past several years, the American people have learned about the sad legacy of the U.S. nuclear weapons testing program. Going clear back into the 1950's and spurred by an overwhelming sense of national security, which many of us here today are old enough to remember where the Cold War was preeminent and where we did a lot of things that, in retrospect or in 20/20 hindsight, we probably would do a lot differently today. But those were the days when the priorities were in a little different direction than they are today. With the sense of national security, the Federal Government failed to inform the public of the nuclear testing program's potential dangers as a result of nuclear fallout. And making matters worse, for many years our government continued to hide those facts from the public despite mounting evidence that people, particularly young people, may have been harmed. The history is by now well documented, and to its credit, the Congress has played an important role in reconstructing that history. We worked hard to open up the files. We worked hard to make sure that current as well as future studies on radiation health effects are as transparent as they should have been for the nuclear testing program during the 1950's. We have worked to make both the nature of the research and the results of any study accessible to the public so Americans know what the dangers are, and, if they can take precautions of some kind with their children or themselves, even at this late date, that those be available to them. Overall, we have made progress with these reform efforts, but the struggle is ongoing. I have recently introduced legislation that would ensure that no one will ever be subject to governmental experimentation of any kind without their knowledge and informed consent. This is just common sense. In addition, this Committee has passed some legislation in the past regarding some of the things that happened with radiation studies in Cincinnati. Some of you that have followed the work of this Committee will be familiar with that legislation. Today, we are going to examine the management and openness of one particular research effort, one with a long history. It started back some 15 years ago when Congress passed an amendment to the Orphan Drug Act directing the Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services to provide the public with complete information on both the amount and effects of the radioactive iodine released into the atmosphere during the aboveground nuclear weapons testing program conducted by the Federal Government in Nevada in the 1950's and early 1960's. This task was delegated to the National Cancer Institute and only last year, in 1997, some 14 years after receiving a mandate from Congress, did the NCI complete its report. Although this hearing will not attempt to evaluate all the science underlying the report, it is worth briefly recapitulating NCI's most significant findings. They are that the weapons test distributed high levels of nuclear fallout across the country--I mean clear across the country, too, as the Chairman just stated, some in a particular area because of the vagaries of weather patterns and so on in Maine, about as far as you could get and still be in the continental United States. So it came down in that area where she grew up, literally. We are not implying that you have any effects from this, of course, and we hope you do not, but that just shows how far these things go sometimes, quite apart from where the test actually occurred. In a number of other areas, including the Northern Plains, the Midwest, and Northeast, individuals received doses of I-131 to their thyroid that were comparable to and in some cases exceeded the doses received by citizens living near the test site in Nevada. Second, Americans across the Nation received doses of radiation at levels that were much higher than previously believed. It is estimated that 3.5 million children received an average cumulative dose of 10.3 rads of Iodine-131. Some children in certain areas may have received cumulative doses as high as 100 rads. Also, NCI has since estimated that 11,000 to 212,000 people, which is quite a wide spread, we would acknowledge, which may show some of the difficulties in assessing some of the dangers from this, that those numbers of people may develop radiation-induced thyroid cancer from the weapons test fallout. Fortunately, this type of cancer is rarely life-threatening, but it is in some cases, of course. When I saw the important information revealed in this report, I was particularly concerned that it took 14 years to complete the study. I asked the staff of the Subcommittee to look into the matter and was quite surprised and disappointed by what we have found. Before getting into what our investigation uncovered, I would first like to address the same item that the Chairman addressed a moment ago regarding a news story that appeared yesterday and another one this morning, but particularly the one yesterday that appeared alleging that this Subcommittee challenged the ethics of Dr. Wachholz during the NCI's I-131 study. The reporter quoted from a preliminary draft of an internal memorandum which I had never seen or approved. I should add, however, that this article did not mention the finding of that memorandum ``that the Subcommittee found no evidence to suggest any potential conflicts affected the I-131 report in any way.'' I want to state for the record, and very emphatically, that I do not challenge the ethics of Dr. Wachholz and that today's hearing is focused instead on the management and issuance of the I-131 report itself. Let's turn to some of the problems with the I-131 report. It was delayed at least 4 years, perhaps longer. The NCI study was plagued by trouble with management, lack of internal oversight, and lack of public participation and openness. In addition, the NCI's participation in ongoing and critical studies of the Chernobyl accident is facing similar difficulties with management. And finally, the Department of Health and Human Services did not have any department-wide policies or guidelines governing the conduct of sensitive studies related to radiation health effects research, even though its agencies now perform many of those studies for the government. Once again, it would appear that the government has dropped the ball in this case, and citizens who were unknowingly or unwillingly exposed to fallout are again victims of unacceptable bureaucratic indifference or neglect. NCI's work on the I-131 report is a case study on how not to manage this type of research and a strong reminder we have to constantly work at cultivating openness and public participation in this area. I would add that when Congress or a committee or individuals are given assurance that a research project is being carried out, then it should be expeditiously brought to the fore when the information is ready and should be brought out just as fast as we possibly can. Again, I want to reiterate that today's hearing is not an attempt to evaluate the science underlying the I-131 report. This morning I hope we can understand why it took so long to get the report out; second, get a better handle on whether or not the NCI report meets the congressional mandate it was given; and third, see what HHS is doing and will do to address the problems with the Chernobyl study to ensure consistent application of openness and public participation through the Department in future studies of radiation health effects. In sum, I hope this hearing will be one more step toward making government more accountable, open and trustworthy of the faith of the people of this country. I want to thank you, Madam Chairman, for allowing the Minority to pursue this investigation. We are sorry that the leak occurred. That should not have occurred from whatever source. There was distribution, as I understand it, of this material earlier, and we can discuss that privately later on. We are looking into it ourselves. So I look forward to hearing from the witnesses this morning and hearing their testimony. Senator Collins. Thank you, Senator. Our first witness this morning is the distinguished Senator from Iowa, Senator Tom Harkin. I want to commend him for both his personal and professional commitment to this issue. He has been a real leader, along with Senator Arlen Specter, and we very much appreciate his making the time today to come and share his knowledge with us. We do have a large number of witnesses, so I would ask, if you could, that you limit your comments to about 10 minutes. Thank you. TESTIMONY OF HON. TOM HARKIN,\1\ A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF IOWA Senator Harkin. I will try to be more brief than that. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Harkin appears in the Appendix on page 6. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Madam Chair, thank you very much and, Senator Glenn, again, thank you for your kind comments, and thank you for holding this hearing. I think it comes at just the right time, and it is covering an issue that I think is of vital importance to all Americans. Maybe it is not the biggest news story today, but it is one that I think is going to affect a lot of people's lives in this country. So your hearing just couldn't be more timely. Madam Chair, again, I thank you for holding this hearing. I think both you and Senator Glenn really covered it. I don't know that I can add too much more than perhaps just to reinforce a couple of things that you said. I think both of you hit it just right. It has to do with responsibility and what is the responsibility of the Federal Government at this time. The lack of a medical warning and response to the nuclear weapons testing of the 1950's and 1960's was a huge failure of our government. Again, Senator Glenn is right that it is 20/20 hindsight. Of course, we were living in a different time, a different era, in a Cold War; but, nonetheless, the government still can't escape the responsibility that we have today. Unfortunately, the lack of response seems to be continuing, and despite some efforts by the NCI and the Institute of Medicine, during the past year, I am afraid, the Federal Government's response is still woefully inadequate. I might just say as an aside, I think that Senator Glenn's bill, the one about the right to know and the right to have full knowledge and informed consent before any experiments are done on you or you are involved in any experiments is really the right thing that we should do at this time. As you mentioned, Madam Chair, I do have a somewhat personal interest in this, and I will tell you how I got involved. Last year, a little over a year and 4 months ago, my next oldest brother died, at a fairly young age, of thyroid cancer. And, of course, when he came down with it, I had already had thyroid problems of my own preceding that by a few years. I just thought that was quite unusual, and, when he came down with thyroid cancer, of course, it was considered not life-threatening. Usually, thyroid cancer is one of those that can be handled. But his had been detected way too late. It had already metastasized. He fought it valiantly for about, oh, I think going on almost 10 years and finally succumbed to it last year. During that period of time, I began to look more and more at the incidence of thyroid problems in this country, and what I found was really alarming. I found, for example, Senator Glenn, about the use of Synthroid, which, as you know, takes the place of the thyroid hormones--I have been on Synthroid now for about 18 years. But the use of it over the last decade, decade and a half, has just shot up precipitously. I asked the question, either one of two things, either doctors are over- prescribing it or there is something going on out there. I don't think doctors are over-prescribing it. It doesn't seem to me like a highly profitable drug or anything like that, but doctors are detecting more and more thyroid problems. If you look at the chart on the use of Synthroid, it has just skyrocketed. Well, that kind of alarmed me, and then what happened to my brother, and then I looked at how much research was being done on thyroid cancer. And, of course, since it is a slow-acting cancer and not too many people succumb to it--the survival rate is fairly high, More interest was focused on breast cancer, of course, and colon cancer and lung cancer, things like that. But I found out there just wasn't anything being done about thyroid cancer. So I began working through my capacity, with Senator Specter, on the Appropriations Committee and asking questions about the research into it. Well, just about that time, this study lands in our lap, and you can imagine how startled I was to see the juxtaposition, of how these two things come together at the same time. And so I looked at the study and looked at the map, and, of course, what I saw startled me as much as it did you, Madam Chair, when I saw that Iowa, of all places, had a lot of radioactive hot spots. I then began a process of talking to scientists and others and found out that when the nuclear explosions happened in Nevada, a lot of the Iodine-131 would get in the upper atmosphere, would float along through the jet stream, and then it would come down. It would come down at different places, so you would find a kind of patchwork across the country, and that is why you find some hot spots, for example, up in Maine. The next thing I found out was that during the 1950's--and you might want to explore this a little further, again, for the basis of having some history on this. During the 1950's, Kodak, which is located up in Rochester, New York, had been noticing that some of the films that they were sending out were being clouded. Somebody figured out it always happened around the time of a nuclear test. So they got a hold of the AEC. The AEC agreed to warn them beforehand when they were going to conduct a nuclear test. Therefore, they would protect their film, and they wouldn't send it out. Then they would wait a while, and then send it out. I thought, my gosh, if they could inform Kodak, why couldn't they inform the dairy farmers and the people that lived in my area and your area, places like that, to not drink the milk for a while or don't let the cows graze for a while on the grass. Iodine-131 does decay, and so you could--the half- life is not that long, so you could wait a while, given some information. So Kodak got the information. The American people didn't. So all of this led me to think that we just really had to do something. I don't know why the study took so long. You will look into that. I would agree with you; from my perusal of it, I really do think the science is good. I have no quarrel with the science and what they did on this study. I just have a problem with the time and the release of the information. Just a couple of other items I would mention to back up a little bit what you both said on the Iodine-131. A lot of these hot spots were identified as receiving 5 to 16 rads of Iodine- 131. You ought to put that in perspective. The Federal standards for nuclear power plants require that protective action be taken for 15 rads. To further understand the enormity of the potential exposure, they estimate 150 million curies of Iodine-131 were released by the aboveground nuclear weapons test, three times that from Chernobyl. These hot spots, as you know, were all over the place, and as you said, Madam Chair, the most affected were children because their thyroids were smaller, they drank more milk. In my brother's case, he lived in Pennsylvania at the time, so they said, well, OK, here is someone who had thyroid cancer, but he didn't live in a hot spot. Well, he sure did when he was a kid. And that is what we drank, Senator Glenn. We drank cow's milk. And we didn't pasteurize it, either. We just put it through a cloth and drank it, and that was it in those days. And so you look back, and you wonder how many people there are that have moved out of those areas or lived in those areas, maybe living in the cities, and have no idea that they were ever exposed to any of this. So that is why, when I hear the NCI say that, on average, everyone is OK. I don't think this is one place where we can be satisfied with saying, well, the average is OK. We have got a lot of people out there who were exposed, and as you know, these things take a long time to develop. And if you look, again--I think--I am not on real solid ground on this, but I think the incidence of the use of Synthroid is affecting the age population about my age, 50's and early 60's, someplace in there, who were kids at that time, if you look at the incidence. I am trying to get a better handle on that, but my first look at it seems to be that that is so. So I think that we have a responsibility to get this information out and inform them of the risks. Now, I have a problem--and I know you will look into this, and I hope you do--about the IOM saying that no screening should take place. I am concerned about that. I am not a doctor, but I do have a problem with this. I think it needs to be examined very closely. According to American Cancer Society information, the NCI is wrong to oppose screening. Why they are opposing it, I don't know. It just seems to me that they are saying, well, people will get excited and maybe they will do things that they don't have to do. And as I read some of the report, I was concerned about that attitude, that, well, people might go in and get check-ups or do things that they don't have to do. And there is one part of the report I just drastically disagree with, and I don't have it right in front of me, but it was that you could wait; that it didn't make any difference how soon you detect thyroid cancer, you could wait a little bit later, it was not that big of a problem up front. Well, I can tell you from my brother's experience that this is nonsense. Any cancer, the earlier you detect it, the earlier you take steps to control it, it means your survival rate is going to be increased by that much. So I just don't buy that, and I don't understand how they came up with that kind of a conclusion, that they didn't have to be worried about people coming in early, they could wait and just catch it during the normal course of getting physicals. But there are a lot of people out there without health insurance that don't come in for annual check-ups, and I will bet you there are a lot of times where you get annual check-ups, and they don't check your thyroid. I just wonder how many--mine was just caught. I was in the military. I have taken physicals every year of my life, and all of a sudden, 1 year I happened to take a physical, and the doctor just said, ``There is something wrong with your throat.'' And it had been there before. I mean, it didn't just happen in 1 year. One doctor happened to catch it, and then with some MRIs, we were able to get a better handle on it. But there are a lot of people out there who don't have health insurance. They don't come in for their annual physicals. And I believe information needs to be gotten out to these people and to say that if you lived in certain areas and you were a child, you ought to get in and have your thyroid checked. That is all I am saying. Again, I am not here to condemn the scientists. I think that they have done a good job on the science, but I do think they did an inadequate job in responding to the human health consequences of the fallout exposure. Again, we are dealing with real people. We are not dealing with just averages. We are dealing with people out there that need this kind of information. I think the medical community needs the information, too, and I think doctors who give physicals and our community health centers around the country ought to be given this information. That would be a massive flow of information from the government to consumers, to the health professionals, community health centers all over this country to make sure they check on the thyroids of people, ask them where they lived when they were kids. Ask them about the milk they consumed and things like that. And in that way, I think we can do a much better job and fulfill our responsibilities more adequately. Madam Chair, if I could, I would just like to ask consent that a statement prepared by the Physicians for Social Responsibility who examined the issue be made a part of the record.\1\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ See Exhibit 4, which appears in the Appendix on page 746. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Senator Collins. Without objection, it will be. Senator Harkin. And I thank you again for giving me this opportunity to testify. I would be glad to try to answer any questions if I can. Senator Collins. Thank you very much for your testimony. Senator Glenn, do you have any questions? Senator Glenn. Just very short. You mentioned Chernobyl. That was interesting. I hadn't heard those figures before on comparison of our total fallout from that and Chernobyl, which brings up the international aspect of this whole thing and whether these things are all cumulative, wafting around the world on jet stream winds and coming down all over the place. I don't know whether you have looked into that any further as to whether when we were doing our testing, or other people were doing their testing, that we were monitoring or were able to monitor or even have any record of what the fallout was around the world in different places, whether it is the southern part of Africa or northern Russia or whatever. I don't have any idea what the answer would be. Have you seen any studies on that? Senator Harkin. I haven't, Senator Glenn. I just asked my staff. They haven't seen any, either. And I would think Chernobyl being where it is located, and we know the jet stream goes from west to east, prevailing winds, you would probably have to look in that direction. But obviously some of that could have reached us, too. Senator Glenn. You have a half-life on this iodine, of about 8 days. I don't know about the effects of Chernobyl--it may not have had that much effect on us here, but I think the overall--I am just thinking of the overall testing programs different nations had going back at that time. I don't want to spend a lot of time on it. I am just curious about it. I hadn't really thought of that before. Senator Harkin. No, I hadn't--well, I had thought about Chernobyl. I just didn't know. But I don't know if any investigations have been done or not. But you are right about the half-life, and I think they need, what, something like 2 or 3 or 4 half-lifes before there is not any real problem. Senator Glenn. The normal half-life is about 8 days, and it goes down from there? Senator Harkin. Yes, I think it is like 30 days total. After about 30 days, I think, something like that. You can ask the experts, but I think that it is something about that, where it just won't affect you any longer. But you are right, Chernobyl gets in the jet stream, 2 or 3 days it is here. Senator Glenn. But that would take it out across not only what is now Russia, the old Soviet Union, but Japan, Korea, other nations of the Far East, maybe even winds down into India or places like that on occasion. It would be interesting to see whether anybody through the World Health Organization or anyone has done any studies of the overall effect of iodine and other fallout. Senator Harkin. You might ask the people--I don't know the answer to that question. One other thing Senator Glenn, Senator Specter and I have put into the appropriations bill a provision that I would like to draw your attention to, to do some further studies on other radionuclides that were involved in those tests. We don't know about those, either. There are other radionuclides--cesium, of course, and we know about the strontium, plutonium, and we don't even have a handle on what happened to that kind of fallout. Senator Glenn. Not to delay this, Madam Chair, I know we have a number of witnesses, but we did extensive studies on some of the downwinders out of Hanford, Washington, when some gases were released there that got into some of these other areas also. This Committee in particular has followed that through the years and done a lot of work in that area, too. So it all combined into a big picture. People need to know more information in a timely fashion just so they could have an annual screening if they were in a hot spot for example, or could watch out for symptoms in their children. Thank you, Madam Chair. Senator Collins. Thank you, Senator Glenn. Thank you, Senator Harkin. Senator Harkin. Again, thank you, Madam Chair, for conducting this hearing. It is vitally important. Senator Collins. Our next panel of witnesses consists of Dr. Owen Hoffman and Dr. Barry Johnson, who will testify about the significance of the NCI's findings on the radiation resulting from nuclear weapons testing. Dr. Hoffman, a scientist who served as a consultant to the NCI study, is currently president of SENES Oak Ridge, Inc. in Tennessee. Dr. Johnson is the Assistant Administrator of the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry. That agency is part of the Department of Health and Human Services and is responsible for conducting medical studies, registries and monitoring. Pursuant to Rule 6 of the Subcommittee, now that you all are comfortably seated, I would ask that you stand and be sworn in. Please, raise your right hand. Do you swear that the testimony that you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you, God? Dr. Hoffman. I do. Dr. Johnson. I do. Senator Collins. Dr. Johnson and Dr. Hoffman, there is a third person at the panel. Could you, for the record, identify him, please? Dr. Johnson. Madam Chair, I am accompanied today by Dr. Jeffrey Lybarger, who is the Director of our Agency's Division of Health Studies. I may refer to him on issues of technical issues, if that arises during the testimony. Senator Collins. Thank you. We look forward to hearing from each of you today. Your written testimony will be made a part of the record but in order to allow ample time for questions and answers, we are going to limit your oral testimony to about 10 minutes each. We are going to be using a timing system this morning. You will see right in front of you three lights. The green light will signify the beginning of your 10-minute period. About 1 minute before the 10-minute period is through, it will turn to yellow, which will encourage you to wrap up your testimony and make your final points. But I do want to emphasize that your entire prepared testimony will be in the record. Dr. Hoffman, we will start with you this morning. TESTIMONY OF F. OWEN HOFFMAN, PH.D.,\1\ PRESIDENT AND DIRECTOR, SENES OAK RIDGE, INC., CENTER FOR RISK ANALYSIS, AND CONSULTANT TO THE NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE'S STUDY, OAK RIDGE, TENNESSEE Dr. Hoffman. Thank you, Madam Chairman. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ The prepared statement of Dr. Hoffman appears in the Appendix on page 48. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Subcommittee has requested that I testify today about two primary issues. The first being my views on the overall health impact to the American people from atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons at the Nevada test site, and the second being my personal involvement with and observations about the overall production of the National Cancer Institute's report, its conduct of research on the topic and including an interpretation of the results of the National Cancer Institute's Iodine-131 study. My professional training is as an environmental scientist. I have more than 25 years of experience in the field of environmental radioactivity. During my career, I have devoted considerable effort to the study of the environmental transport and health consequences of Iodine-131 and other radionuclides. In 1987, I performed experimental research for the National Cancer Institute to produce information that helped confirm some of the assumptions that were made in this study. I also served over a period of years as an unfunded consultant to advise on methods for the analysis of uncertainty in the National Cancer Institute's dose estimates. I would like to also point out that I have served as chief scientist to the International Atomic Energy Commission on the use of Chernobyl data to actually test the accuracy of environmental models and, indeed, the Chernobyl fallout went around the world. We even measured it here in the United States. What are the most important findings of the National Cancer Institute's report? I would like to point out that it makes comprehensive estimates of the thyroid dose resulting from each of 100 atmospheric tests held in Nevada during the 1950's. In all, approximately 150 million curies--not 116--but 150 million curies of Iodine-131 was released to the atmosphere from the Nevada test site. Now, this is about 3 to 4 times the amount released from Chernobyl. You had an earlier estimate of that release. I would like to correct it. It is 45 million curies, not 7 million curies of Iodine-131 that was released from Chernobyl. The National Cancer Institute report estimates doses of radioactive iodine that was received by individuals of various ages and who consumed various dietary sources of fresh milk for over 3,000 counties in the Continental United States. Let me make this point and let me make it clearly, that this is the largest and most extensive dose reconstruction ever carried out in the United States. Presently, there are dose reconstructions ongoing at Fernald, Ohio, at Hanford, Washington, at Oak Ridge, Tennessee, at Savannah River, Georgia, and at Rocky Flats, Colorado. Compared to all of these sites, the NCI dose reconstructions is the big one. Iodine-131, as mentioned previously, is one of many radionuclides released in fallout. It is because of its affinity to rapidly deposit on vegetation and to be accumulated into food chains, especially the milk food chain, and then to affect the thyroids of children, is why it gets so much attention. Iodine-131 is not the only radionuclide in fallout; however, the NCI study was mandated by Congress to focus only on Iodine-131. The other thing I would like to mention is that the plumes from the Nevada Test Site went beyond the borders of the United States. The NCI study, however, was restricted to just the doses to the American people and, as far as I know, the overall effects of the Nevada Test Site fallout in our neighboring countries has not been assessed. The primary population at risk would be those in childhood at time of exposure. It was mentioned previously that the plumes went throughout the United States. It has also been mentioned previously that an initial estimate of health risk ranged from 11,000 to 212,000 excess cases of cancer. I would like to point out that those estimates would primarily be manifested in children, who were under the age of five at time of exposure and who are primarily females. And the majority of those cases would occur for people living in the Midwest and Eastern United States because that is where the population is. So, even though the so-called hot spots appear to occur in the West, the population base is rather small so the overall cases of cancer that was manifested in the West would be small compared to the consequences that would have occurred in the eastern United States. For children born in 1952 and for children consuming either above-average quantities of commercial milk or unpasteurized milk from local sources, such as a family cow, backyard cow or a local farm, the National Cancer Institute estimates that there are approximately 270 counties in the United States where the median or central estimates of thyroid doses would have reached above 30 rads and nearly 2,500 counties where the central estimates of dose would be between 10 and 30 rads. Those dose estimates well exceed any past or current radiation protection guides dealing with maximum dose limits to the thyroid. They also exceed emergency reference levels, which are recommendations for taking action, either recommending that cows not be fed fresh feed or banning milk from the market. The World Health Organization currently is recommending that at doses that can be averted as high as 1 rad, that stable iodine tablets be distributed in order to block thyroid uptake of radioactive iodine. The current recommendations of the Food and Drug Administration and the EPA recommends this procedure at 25 rad. So, these dose estimates from exposure to NTS fallout approach and exceed emergency levels for those who were in childhood at time of testing who were consuming above- average amounts of milk or milk from local sources. Another measure of comparison is looking at risk limits for Superfund sites. Now, at Superfund sites the need to clean up is triggered when risks are in the range of 1 chance in a million life-time health risk of cancer up to 1 chance in 10,000 for maximally-exposed individuals. Usually when it exceeds 1 chance in 10,000, the need for clean up is taken seriously. I would like to point out that for children under the age of 15, a life-time risk that would approach or exceed 1 chance in 10,000 of an excess risk of thyroid cancer would be on the order of just 1 to 2 rad. And the risk would increase in a multiplicative fashion for every rad increase beyond that. So, that concludes a brief summary of the significance of the study. Now, another question that I have been asked to answer is, have the important findings and their significance been adequately conveyed to the public by the NCI? To answer this, I offer to you an opinion. The information in the report is extensive. It is of the highest technical quality. There have been numerous presentations made in the past to scientific committees but, I would contend that, no, the information is not readily accessible to people who are non-technically trained and who have an interest in this topic. And the reason for this is that the executive summary of the report focuses mainly on average doses. The average dose is controlled by the majority of the population who were adults at time of exposure and the risk to those individuals is very small. The risk to the U.S. population is controlled by those who were in very young childhood and who were consuming large amounts of milk. One has to go into the appendices of the report, into Section 8, and start combing through the maps in the back of the report before one obtains a full appreciation as to how high these doses could have been. And, in fact, if one really is interested in discerning how high the doses could have been, it is necessary to get into the NCI web site and actually begin to put in information about dietary habits and date of birth in order to get quantitative information that would be pertinent to the interest of any individual. Now, I would like to just finish with a personal recommendation. That is I think we would not be here today if the National Cancer Institute had adopted the same commitment to openness and public involvement as is now the standard practice in dose reconstruction studies that are currently taking place throughout the United States. Those studies are being conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and by various State Departments of Health. Had there been public outreach and a commitment to openness, I do not think the NCI report could have been delayed, and I think that the report would have been consistent with its full mandate; which is: To include estimates of health risk. I think one of the main reasons why it is difficult for members of the public to understand the information in the NCI report is because, contrary to the Congressional mandate given in 1983, there are no estimates of health risk. It is not like openness is anything new. Members of NCI and I have had these discussions at least over the last 8 years, but it is only recently as a result of, I would say, tremendous media pressure as of last summer that the report was published. Since publication, however, there has been, as far as I can see, every attempt made by NCI to answer all questions posed to it. That concludes my presentation, and I am happy to answer any specific questions that you have. Senator Collins. Thank you very much, Dr. Hoffman. Dr. Johnson. TESTIMONY OF BARRY L. JOHNSON, PH.D.,\1\ ASSISTANT SURGEON GENERAL, ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR, AGENCY FOR TOXIC SUBSTANCES AND DISEASE REGISTRY, PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES; ACCOMPANIED BY JEFFREY LYBARGER, M.D., DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF HEALTH STUDIES Dr. Johnson. Madam Chair, Senator Glenn, good morning. I am the Assistant Administrator of the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). I am accompanied today by Dr. Jeffrey Lybarger, Director of our Division of Health Studies. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ The prepared statement of Dr. Johnson appears in the Appendix on page 61. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- At the request of the Subcommittee, our testimony today will address ATSDR's medical monitoring responsibilities under the Comprehensive Environmental Response Compensation and Liability Act known as CERCLA or Superfund. In particular, we will describe ATSDR's finding that medical monitoring of persons exposed to radioactive iodine released in the past from the Hanford Nuclear facility in Richland, Washington, is called for under CERCLA. Our testimony also relates the public health approach taken by ATSDR in considering CERCLA's medical monitoring provisions when populations have been exposed to hazardous substances released into the environment. Further, at the Subcommittee's request because the Institute of Medicine recently recommended against thyroid cancer screening, we will highlight our differences in decision making and why we continue to support our decision for a medical monitoring program for a sub-population of well-defined persons exposed as children to Iodine-131 released from the Hanford facility. ATSDR interprets its CERCLA language on medical monitoring as an important public health intervention that provides early diagnostic and referral services for a well-defined population's health risks. Early detection of a change in health status is the most effective way to lessen the burden of more advanced disease and enhances survival. ATSDR's public health approach for considering a population for medical monitoring involves a rigorous process that applies established medical monitoring criteria for a specific site, using a multidisciplinary panel of experts to apply and assess the criteria, assures independent and external peer review on all matters of science, that will support an involvement of affected stakeholders certainly including the affected public, reviews risks and benefits as part of a formal agency approval process, implements medical monitoring activities when indicated, and periodically evaluates the medical monitoring program for effectiveness and quality. In 1995, ATSDR commenced a deliberative process to determine if medical monitoring was warranted for persons at increased risk of thyroid cancer and other conditions from exposure to Iodine-131 released from the Hanford Nuclear Reservation during the period 1945 through 1951. A dose reconstruction study had documented large releases of Iodine- 131 into the atmosphere and provided dose estimates of representative individuals according to their age, and where and when they lived, within a large geographic area surrounding Hanford. From these data, ATSDR determined that the major public health risk is among young children downwind of the facility who consumed Iodine-131 contaminated milk during the period 1945 through 1951. Early in our efforts, ATSDR and CDC jointly formed the Hanford Health Effects Subcommittee to advise the agencies on their research and public health activities related to the Hanford facility. This committee comprises of 21 persons who represent community, business, government and other interests. Our meetings are held on a quarterly basis, in public, and generate considerable media attention that further promotes public awareness and education. We also work closely with the Intertribal Council on Hanford Health Projects which includes representation from nine tribal nations in the Hanford region. The HHES, the Subcommittee which I referred to, provides an essential resource for expressing health concerns from communities and tribal nations. This committee reviewed ATSDR's approach to and findings from the consideration of the medical monitoring program. In consultation with an expert panel, we determined that a median 10 rad or higher thyroid dose for children would place these individuals at significant increased risk of thyroid disease as adults. This was based on the extensive medical literature of external radiation exposures that support elevated thyroid cancer risk at this dose level or higher among children. These elevated thyroid cancer risks occur for many decades following radiation exposures to the head and neck in children. Moreover, there is an increasing amount of medical literature that supports a reasonable association between radioactive iodine exposures and excess occurrences of thyroid neoplasms. This literature includes published studies of populations exposed to the Chernobyl fire in 1986, Marshall Islanders exposed to the 1954 BRAVO test releases, school children exposed to the Nevada Test Site atmospheric testing releases during the period 1951 through 1962, and preliminary findings from the Hanford Thyroid Disease study. Our analysis estimates that 14,000 people, the majority of whom were exposed in 1945, would have received a sufficient thyroid dose of Iodine-131 as children to place them at significant risk of thyroid cancer and other thyroid and parathyroid conditions. Because there is no randomized controlled study proving the benefits of thyroid cancer screening, ATSDR conducted a prevention effectiveness analysis to project the potential harms and benefits of a program based on a clinical decision model. The prevention effectiveness analysis also allowed us to project which benefits and which harms might result from various medical monitoring scenarios. Clearly, a well-defined high-risk population must be identified for a program with thyroid evaluation to derive the most benefit. The geographic precision of the radiation dose estimates from the Hanford releases was a key in ATSDR's prevention effectiveness analysis and helped clearly define the at-risk target population. As I indicated 14,000 people we estimate. Again, the Hanford Health Effects Subcommittee was a very valuable resource for discussing risks and benefits attending medical monitoring for thyroid disease. After 18 months of careful consideration and analysis following meetings with executive and senior scientific staff and a meeting with community and tribal representatives, Dr. David Satcher, as a former ATSDR administrator, and Director of the CDC, signed the decision memo for medical monitoring on February 7, 1997. Now, differences in decision making between ATSDR and the IOM report. First, ATSDR is directed under CERCLA medical monitoring programs for populations at significant risk of adverse health effects from exposure to hazardous substances. This represents a different type of public health activity, we believe, in the setting of a national policy or standards for thyroid cancer screening. Second, we perform our work on a site-specific basis using the best available scientific and medical information and following a rigorous process that is based on our seven criteria for medical monitoring. We not only involve the affected public in our decision making process, but also conduct external scientific peer review of our work to make the best public health decision possible. By consulting recognized experts on the medical issue under consideration and involving the public most directly affected by the proposed intervention, our process provides an important and necessary balance for public health decision making. Third, because we are not setting national screening policy, our criteria do not require a randomized control study showing the benefits of screening, although, we would certainly use such data if available. Fourth, we agree with IOM that the current dose estimates for U.S. counties have large uncertainties which makes it difficult to readily determine who is at highest risk. At Hanford, however, we are fortunate that the dose reconstruction study estimated doses at a much more precise level of geographic resolution: Specifically 6-mile-by-6-mile areas. In closing, ATSDR considers medical monitoring of a well- defined, high-risk population to be consistent with the central principle of public health: Prevention of disease as preferable to treatment and medical care, and early loss of life. Moreover, for maximum effectiveness, prevention efforts must involve the public that will be impacted by these public health decisions and efforts. Thank you. Senator Collins. Thank you, Dr. Johnson. I am just going to have a couple of brief questions for Dr. Hoffman before turning over the questioning to Senator Glenn, since this is a Minority investigation. Dr. Hoffman, as I mentioned in my opening statement, one of the most important findings of the NCI study in my view is the fact that contrary to what one might think the fallout from these nuclear weapon tests was not limited to areas very close to the Nevada Test Site. And you mentioned specifically the Northeast and the impact on people born in 1952, which was the year I was born. So, this is of some personal interest to me. I would like to, just briefly, illustrate the effect of the prevailing winds, look at my home State of Maine. There is a chart of the entire United States that I believe is part of the National Cancer Institute study,\1\ part of the report that shows Aroostook County, Maine, where I grew up, as being a particular hot-spot where people were exposed to 30-plus rads. So, a very high exposure rates. But our charts take a different point. They start with January 1. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ See Exhibit 1a, which is retained in the files of the Subcommittee. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- And what I would like to do, to just illustrate the point that you can live very far from where these tests were conducted and still there is a significant impact, is have you walk us through the charts. The first chart \2\ relates to those consumers, primarily children--I assume we are talking about--who consume an average amount of milk. I would add that I feel like I finally won many years later the battle with my mother on drinking milk, but small consolation. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \2\ See Exhibit 1b, which appear in the Appendix on pages 90-92. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Hoffman, would you walk us through these charts? Dr. Hoffman. Yes. What you have here is an excerpt of the results that you would find in the appendix of the National Cancer Institute's report of October 1997. And what this chart shows is that virtually the entire State of Maine would have received doses in excess of 3 rads for children who were consuming just an average amount of milk and who were born on January 1, 1952, with the exception of a few counties, one county right in the center of Maine. You know the name of the county, I do not. Senator Collins. It is Penobscot and Piscataquis Counties. Dr. Hoffman. Yes. Where the doses would be in the category of 10-to-30 rad for such an individual. Senator Collins. I would next like to look at a second chart \2\ which relates to consumers who drank a great deal of milk and the impact changes rather dramatically in this case, it looks like to me. But, again, if you could help us understand it. Dr. Hoffman. I think that this demonstrates one of the strengths of the calculations that have been made in the National Cancer Institute's report. In their report they did consider the fact that some children would consume much more milk than just the average. And, so, they targeted a calculation for individuals that would be consuming more than just the average amount. And for those you see the doses increase quite a bit. Now, in this second chart almost the entire State of Maine is impacted with doses ranging from 10- to-30 rad. Senator Collins. And the third chart \2\ I want to show you illustrates those who drank a great deal of milk from what we call a backyard cow. It could be someone living on a farm, for example. Could you comment on this chart? Dr. Hoffman. Yes. The reason why the backyard cow is important is that there is no dilution from milk transported from outside the region. Also, backyard cows tend to produce less milk on the total and have the potential for transferring more iodine into their milk than the commercial dairy cow. And in this circumstance, for people who either are consuming milk from a backyard cow or a local farm, the entire State of Maine (for individuals born on January 1, 1952), would have received doses between 10-and-30 rad. Senator Collins. Thank you for that explanation of these charts. Just one follow-up question. It occurs to me as I listen to Senator Harkin recommending that there be widespread screening and then when I read the report recommending that there not be widespread screening that perhaps there is a middle ground here. And that is that if this material were communicated to physicians in, for example, the State of Maine, who may not be aware of the risk factors and the exposure that occurred during the 10-year period in question, that perhaps physicians armed with that information could decide whether testing or screening was appropriate for their patients. But if they do not have access to this kind of information or they are just not aware of it, they cannot make those kinds of judgments. Do you know--and I will ask the NCI officials this question--but has there been an effort to educate the medical profession about the rather startling and unexpected findings on the dosages of radiation received during those periods? Dr. Hoffman. I am not aware of a major educational effort at this time. I believe at the time of the release of the information that one of the members of the National Cancer Institute's Advisory Committee, Dr. David Becker, indeed on his own, attempted to educate and make contact with the American Thyroid Institute in order to caution the medical community about the potential hazards of massive screening. This is not to be taken lightly. Screening, if applied without due caution, can result in more harm than good. Senator Collins. And I agree with that and I am not advocating frightening the public into thinking that we need a massive screening program. But on the other hand, it seems to me that physicians in Maine, for example, treating people my age and a bit older who grew up during this period in areas that are hot spots, should have this information so that they can decide on a case-by-case basis whether or not screening might be appropriate. Dr. Hoffman. Well, I would like to mention that in my own analysis of the data, I do not see as much evidence for hot spots as I see evidence for age at time of exposure, gender, and especially for those individuals, those rare individuals on a diet of goat milk, to determine the high-end exposed group. That group will be at more risk than any average group that might be associated with a particular geographical location. Senator Collins. Thank you, Dr. Hoffman. Senator Glenn. Senator Glenn. Thank you. What is the difference between a backyard cow and a dairy cow as far as radiation goes? I do not understand why that would be different? Dr. Hoffman. Well, dairy cows are managed for maximum production of milk and they are often given a much higher percentage of concentrates, they may produce upwards of 30 quarts of milk or about 7 gallons of milk a day; whereby a family cow that is set out to pasture to graze may only produce from one-third to one-half of that. Senator Glenn. In other words, your dairy cow would get more supplemental feed that would not be raw grass and things like that that are often more exposed to fallout? Dr. Hoffman. That is correct. And also because of the type of cows usually used for family use are low producers, there is a tendency for them to concentrate more iodine into the milk than those cows, like the large Holsteins, that are used for commercial diary operations. Senator Glenn. Dr. Johnson, am I correct to say that you do not recommend any overall screening now? Would you go along with screening in some of these hot spots where we have seen a lot of thyroid cancers develop? Or do we have enough information to do that? Dr. Johnson. Senator, you are asking me to comment on the National Cancer Institute study of which I am not that knowledgeable. What ATSDR did with regard to a comparable situation where Iodine-131 was released from the Hanford facility, we do recommend medical monitoring or, if you wish to call it, screening. And that is for persons whom we estimate to have had 10 rads or above exposure, primarily 1945-1951. Of that 14,000 people, some 60 percent have had exposure to 25 rads or greater. So, we have recommended under Superfund that medical monitoring be done for that group of 14,000 people. Senator Glenn. In your studies, when you are reviewing the studies did ATSDR take specific steps to involve and inform the public and what specific steps did you do? What I am looking for really is this also: What do we do once we put this out to the public? What does the public do with it? We do not want openness just for openness' sake and say all wash your hands, everything is great, now, we have protected the public. The public has to be given this information in some way that means something to them or it is sort of academic whether we put it out there or not. What did you do to help people get informed on this and to take precautions in their own families some way or was there an effort like that? If so, describe it. Dr. Johnson. I think I would like to begin, sir, by indicating that the practice of public health for quite some time has involved involvement of communities and tribal nations and getting the public involved is now very much a part of the fabric of public health. With regard to what we did specifically at Hanford, as I said in my testimony, we and CDC, jointly, created something called the Hanford Health Effects Subcommittee. Twenty-one persons representing a broad representation of the community around Hanford. State health departments, the business community, concerned citizens, etc. We began our effort to determine if medical monitoring for the Hanford facility should be pursued by discussing that with this committee that we formed. The committee for 2 years met quarterly. They provided us with information on their health concerns, advice on various issues of community education. Through that committee we were able to outreach to State and local health departments on what we felt were the issues related to Iodine-131 released from Hanford. We came to a deliberative decision under Superfund that medical monitoring should be pursued and that was done in conjunction with this committee, with the media. And we have tried to educate health care providers, principally through working with State and local health departments. Senator Glenn. Is there any natural occurring Iodine-131 in nature? Does it all come from this? Is there any at all from lightening or whatever? Is there any natural Iodine-131? Dr. Hoffman. It is a product of nuclear fission. Senator Glenn. Yes. Dr. Hoffman. And, so, to the extent that in the past there have been natural nuclear incidents of spontaneous fission, that would be the source of materially-occuring Iodine-131. But because of its short half-life of 8 days, it would not persist. Senator Glenn. One of the things Congress requested was that a risk assessment be done by the report, but I do not think any was included in the report. I understand that National Cancer Institute did a risk assessment in 1997 and put it out in a press release. I do not know what the extent of that was or what the details were that went out. I guess we could say that was some effort at making this information available to the public. I do not know how extensive that was. But how difficult is a risk assessment to do? Should that be a natural outcome of this kind of a study? Dr. Hoffman. I believe it should. Today in the dose reconstructions that are ongoing at Hanford, Rocky Flats, Oak Ridge and Fernald, the end point of the study is an estimate of individual risk. And, so, it was personally surprising to me that risk was not aggressively pursued in the National Cancer Institute study. The National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine report conclusively state that there is a causative link between Iodine-131 and thyroid cancer. This information has been reinforced from the experience of the follow-up of children exposed from Chernobyl. Yet the very people who are most intimately involved in the study of children exposed to Chernobyl fallout are the same people involved in the National Cancer Institute's Iodine-131 report. So, I do not know why information about health risk was not included. Senator Glenn. Yes. We are making a major issue of openness, as we should, but what happens then when we are open? Let us say all the information has been put out, what would the State health departments or doctors or AMA, whoever, what would they do? Is it just a general awareness through the medical industry that they ought to be more careful in screening this or is there an antidote to this in any way or any protection people can take? In other words, openness just for openness' sake is one thing, but openness to get information out there that people will act on and are concerned about, that is very constructive. How do we make this effective? Dr. Hoffman. Well, yes, you have stated exactly the point that I was trying to make. Through openness, the community with a need for the information is informed at the earliest stage of the project and they have time then to digest the information and take appropriate action. The information about the high thyroid doses throughout the United States, that information perhaps was known as early as 1965. But in the National Cancer Institute report the first preliminary results were available in the late 1980's. In an open study that preliminary information would be made available and people would have had the opportunity to respond to this information. Senator Glenn. Do you have any reason that you know of why this was not put out earlier? Was it just a delay or other things that people were involved with do you know? Dr. Hoffman. In my personal opinion, I think it is in part a reflection of the traditional scientific process of not releasing information until it is absolutely final. And because the information was not absolutely final it was not released. But contrary to that scientific tradition, present-day public health dose reconstructions will release draft results at an early stage with the understanding that it is draft information and subject to change. Senator Glenn. I think you had indicated, maybe in your longer written statement or earlier, that you believe the data was completed about 1989 and the report was completed about 1992. That is 8 and 5 years before the report was issued. Do you know why that occurred? Dr. Hoffman. Well, I would like to just make a correction. I do not know if the report was completed in 1992 but I think the calculations were finalized about that time. So, the basic information was well in hand in that time period. Why did it take from 1992 until the present time to release the report? I think, you must put that question to the authors of the report. Senator Glenn. From a practical standpoint, is there any easy test for thyroid cancer? If I was concerned about a child or a grandchild that had thyroid cancer, is there anything except the doctor finding lumps or do you have to go through the expensive things like an MRI and things like that to determine if there is a problem there? There is no easy test, is there? Dr. Johnson. Senator, the proposal we made that is specific to Hanford is a phased approach where a person would be seen by a physician who knows the issues, that is to say, radiation and thyroid disease. The first phase of that screening would involve palpation of the thyroid, a physical exam, a personal history and so forth. The second phase of that effort would go into a program of ultra-sound if referred into the second phase from the first phase. The third phase would be fine-needle aspiration where a small amount of tissue from the thyroid gland is examined for abnormal pathology. Our program would then recommend under conditions that knowledgeable physicians then make the decision on whether or not to proceed with surgery or some other kind of more invasive procedures. So, we see it as a phased diagnosis. If I could comment also with regard to physicians. Our work with State health departments leads to work with local health departments, that leads to work with local medical societies, that leads to work with local health care providers. And it is a process that has to involve all those links--State, local, medical societies, local health care providers. Physicians are not well versed on issues of toxicology, radiation biology and so forth. And I do not think the public should expect that that should be the case. Our responsibility is to provide that technical assistance and to provide other information that would be helpful in their practice of medicine. Senator Glenn. Well, but you still depend on what? On things like AMA publications or do you have a report that you put out to every registered doctor in the United States? Dr. Johnson. Again, we work under Superfund. It is a site- specific individual issue. For example, we recently had concern about PCBs and fish tissue. We worked with the USEPA to outreach to every physician in one particular State in the Midwest. It is not Ohio, sir. It was one of the other States. So, it depends upon the issue. Senator Collins. Senator Glenn, I can yield the remainder of my time to you or we could go to Senator Durbin? Senator Glenn. I yield to Senator Durbin. Senator Collins. Senator Durbin. OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR DURBIN Senator Durbin. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate this hearing and I am learning a lot in a hurry about a subject that I do not profess to have any particular expertise. I am trying to really translate this into what I might expect the average person in my home State of Illinois to ask me if they should hear about this hearing and this report. Particularly when I look at one of the charts--and I am not sure you have them for all the States there, but you have provided them for us in the testimony--and I find that one of the communities near where I live, Christian County, Taylorville area, supposedly had exposures of greater than 30 rads of Iodine-131 thyroid doses for persons born on January 1, 1952, the backyard cow example. What am I to tell someone who heard that, that this was the case? What kind of precaution or concern should they have over that fact, if they lived in that area in that period of time? Dr. Johnson. Well, Senator, again, my agency is involved with releases of Iodine-131 from the Hanford facility so our work is not specific to the National Cancer Institute study, although there are parallel issues. What we have said to the public that was exposed as children to Iodine-131 releases working through the media-- working through the States of Washington's, Idaho's, and Oregon's health departments--that exposure does increase their risk for certain kinds of thyroid disease. We have said that we believe this is a matter between persons and their health care providers and their physicians and that we are trying to provide that would outreach to those persons at elevated risk to bring them in for a kind of screening program. Senator Durbin. Is there a normal period of time within which you could expect this thyroid cancer to exhibit itself? If a person said, OK, I was living at Taylorville, I grew up there, I was a kid born in 1952, I am 46 years old, I have never had a problem, does that mean I am out of the woods when it comes to this particular concern? Or is it, no, you have just reached an age where it might be a particular concern? Can you tell me that? Dr. Johnson. I would like to refer that to my colleague, Dr. Lybarger, who is a medical doctor. Dr. Lybarger. Senator, the risk increases throughout one's lifetime to a general level of around 40 years. It does not decrease after that period of time. So, generally, it is a life-long risk of extra cancer. Senator Durbin. Can I ask you about some other things, too. Dr. Hoffman testified that Iodine-131 is just one of the radionuclides--I hope I am pronouncing that correctly--that occurs in fallout, but it is the one that has been the subject of the largest dose reconstruction study. Are there other dose reconstructions of other radionuclides that ought to be conducted? Dr. Hoffman. I believe so. There have been assessments of the impact of all the radionuclides in global fallout from the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation. But a detailed assessment on the level of the National Cancer Institute's report for other radionuclides, beyond those communities immediately downwind of the Nevada Test Site, has never been done. Also, there has not been an attempt, as far as I know, to estimate the individual risk associated with exposure to those radionuclides. Now, what I think is important, and the reason I would support such studies, is because the types of cancers and disease induced by exposure to those other radionuclides are more likely to result in a fatality rather than just a morbidity. In the case of thyroid cancer mortality is less than 10 percent. The leathality fraction, or the chance of death, is much higher for the types of cancer induced by the other radionuclides. Senator Durbin. I do not want to over-state what you have just said so I want to make sure it is clear for the record. You are suggesting that this study with Iodine-131 indicates what probably occurred as a result of the fallout from the tests in creating a medical condition which is serious but not as life-threatening as some other cancers. And you are saying that there are other radionuclides that might have come from these tests which should also be surveyed because of the potential danger which might be even greater than the danger of thyroid cancer, is that correct? Dr. Hoffman. That is correct. But I would say that there are other radionuclides that did come from these tests, not might have, they did. And I personally have asked this question of the National Cancer Institute in the past and that is, why was there no attempt to expand the scope of the study? I feel the intent of that public law back in 1983 was to look at the full potential health impact of weapons testing at Nevada. To do that, you have got to look at all the radionuclides. Now, the techniques that were developed to estimate Iodine- 131 are the same techniques that could have been used to estimate all of the other radionuclides. So, the step to include an estimate for the other radionuclides in fallout was not a major step. Senator Durbin. What are the other radionuclides? Can you tell me? Is the list too long? Dr. Hoffman. The other ones are Cesium-137, that has a 30- year half-life and is readily taken up in the food chains; Strontium-90, that acts very much like calcium and is taken up like iodine into milk and can deposit in bones. Over the long- term, radioactive Carbon-14, which also will be prevalent in human foods. Those three radionuclides can be measured even today. However, the bulk of what can be measured was contributed by global fallout, not by Nevada Test Site operations. Senator Durbin. Can we use the same--let me see if I state this correctly--I take it what you have given us in this portrayal here and map, as Senator Collins and others have noted, is an indication of where these deposits of Iodine-131 were the most serious or the greatest. Can we conclude that these other radionuclides were likely to have been deposited in the same places? Dr. Hoffman. Yes. Senator Durbin. We can. Dr. Hoffman. Yes. Senator Durbin. Well, then I think what--I do not want to over-state this--but I think what we are considering today is the canary in the cage in the coal mine and it is looking very sick because of Iodine-131 and something worse may be out there. And I am afraid that--and I do not want to over-state this because this is a serious matter of public health and I do not want to cause great alarm--but if I follow your questioning, we need to get on this quickly. We cannot allow the kind of delay and procedure that was used in this report to prevail again, so, that we can address these other radionuclides which are even more dangerous, which could have been deposited from this fallout or from some other source. Have I stated this correctly? Please, correct me if I am wrong because I do not want to be wrong. Dr. Hoffman. I would not want to, at this time, make a statement about the overall effect until such studies had been completed. I would want to emphasize, however, that the health outcomes associated with exposures to these other radionuclides are more than likely to lead to the types of cancer that could result in a mortality. But whether we are dealing with a few thousand cases of excess mortalities or a few tens of thousands of cases of excess mortality I will not know until such studies have been conducted. Senator Durbin. Well, the reason I pointed out Christian County, Illinois, is that they have had a lawsuit recently concluded where there was an extraordinary incidence of a rare cancer, neuroblastoma, in four children and unexplained. And I do not suggest it has any connection here, but I can tell you that that has caused everyone in this area to be overly sensitive as to whether or not there is something unusual in that particular area and it just jumped right off the map when I opened up this chart and saw that this was one of the counties involved here. I thank you, Madam Chairman. Senator Collins. Thank you. Senator Glenn. Senator Glenn. Yes. Just one more follow-up one on Senator Durbin's comments. I was talking to the staff here while he was commenting. I believe you have strontium and cesium, also in the radionuclide family that are fallouts from some of this, too. Now, should we be concerned about some of those dosages because strontium, as I understand it, concentrates in the bones. It can cause cancer. Now, maybe it comes from some other sources also, I do not know. Cesium is more long-lived, I am told, and, so, you may have radiation in you from a collection of cesium over time. Now, some of these things also are used in the medical profession for diagnosis as well as therapy for certain things. So, they are used in a controlled fashion that way. My question is, do you know whether you could give us some advice on whether the dosages are high enough from some of this fallout of these other radionuclides that we should be alarmed about them and should be doing some similar studies that cover these other areas? Or are they so rare that those other radionuclides, strontium and cesium, as a source of potential cancer is not large enough that we need to worry about it that much; there are other things that we should be concentrating our efforts on? Do you have any comment on that? Dr. Hoffman. It is hard to come up with a simple answer to the question that you just posed. In order to give full public disclosure as to what the potential health impacts have been from testing at the Nevada Test Site, yes, I believe that investigations should be undertaken of the full suite of radionuclides that have been produced. Have significant exposures occurred as a result of the deposition of these other radionuclides in fallout? I do not know the answer to this until such studies have been undertaken. How significant is it likely to be? I think it is fairly evident that the highest exposures to these other radionuclides more likely than not to have come from global fallout because these are long-lived radionuclides that accumulate in the upper atmosphere and they can deposit over a number of years. So, that what we currently measure in our foods and in soils of cesium, strontium, and Carbon-14, the bulk of that came in from global fallout and not from the Nevada Test Site. However, a fraction of that is still a contribution from operations in Nevada. Senator Glenn. But do we have good information about what kinds of cancer or whether cancer is caused by these other things like the strontium and the cesium and others, as well as Iodine-131? Dr. Hoffman. Well, for Iodine-131 the primary organ of interest is the thyroid and other than non-neoplastic thyroiditis the main issue of concern is the production of radiogenic thyroid nodules and carcinomas. For the other radionuclides, it is basically looking at the overall interaction of radiation in biological matter. And there, I believe, the scientific evidence is fairly conclusive and that is that any excess exposure to radiation increases one's risk over one's lifetime of cancer. That risk may be small but the risk is still there. Senator Glenn. All right, but the fallout we received such as in Maine and the other places where there are hot-spots--it would be your opinion, I gather from what you said about the long-lasting life of this as opposed to the half-life--that these would not necessarily, strontium, cesium, problems, whatever they resulted in, would not necessarily be in those same hot spots, even though they might have been generated originally by the same nuclear event. In other words, they would be more long-lived and would be more likely to circulate all over the world over a period of time and be a hazard for a longer period of time than would Iodine-131? Dr. Hoffman. That is true. However, you also have to question whether or not you could see Strontium-90, Cesium-137 that originated from Nevada in these locations. And, the answer is that yes, indeed, those radionuclides are present at those locations. However, their presence may be masked by a larger fraction that was deposited with global fallout. Senator Glenn. OK. But does strontium concentrate in the bones? Dr. Hoffman. Yes. Senator Glenn. Has anyone ever done studies in these same hot spots to determine whether we have higher incidence of bone cancer that might be trackable back to strontium? Dr. Hoffman. I do not believe so, and I believe that such studies would be difficult because of the other potential causes of bone cancer. So, that a simple epidemiological study that tries to do a geographical analysis of bone cancer and to draw correlations more likely than not might produce inconclusive results. Senator Glenn. OK. I have nothing else. Senator Collins. Thank you very much for your testimony. Our next panel this morning includes the official who managed the radiation study, Dr. Bruce Wachholz, the Chief of the Radiation Effects Branch of the National Cancer Institute. The Department of Health and Human Services is represented by Dr. William Raub, the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Science Policy and the Science Advisor to the Secretary of HHS. HHS is the Department ultimately responsible for the oversight and management of the NCI study. I am also going to ask that Dr. Richard Klausner, the Director of the National Cancer Institute, join these other two witnesses. I would ask that the three of you come forward and remain standing so that I can swear you in pursuant to the Subcommittee rules. Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so, help you, God? Dr. Wachholz. I do. Dr. Raub. I do. Dr. Klausner. I do. Senator Collins. Thank you. Please, be seated. I first want to just go over the ground rules for the testimony. Any written statements will be submitted in their entirety. I am going to ask that oral statements be limited to no more than 10 minutes each, using the lights for guidance. I want to start with Dr. Wachholz. Do you have a statement that you would like to make this morning? TESTIMONY OF BRUCE WACHHOLZ, PH.D., CHIEF, RADIATION EFFECTS BRANCH, NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE Dr. Wachholz. Yes, Ma'am. Madam Chairman, Members of the Committee, I am Bruce Wachholz, Chief of the Radiation Effects Branch at the National Cancer Institute. In that capacity, I have had the opportunity to oversee a wide range of radiation research projects funded by the NCI and have worked with scientists in other Federal and non-Federal agencies and laboratories for 15 years. Also, here today from NCI, to my right, are the Director of the Institute, Dr. Richard Klausner, and behind me, the U.S. Associate Project Director for the Chernobyl Studies, Dr. Ihor Masnyk. I would like to ask that the NCI statement be included for the record, as I am sure Dr. Klausner would request. Senator Collins. It will be. Dr. Wachholz. First of all, I would like to express my personal appreciation to the Subcommittee for its clarification of items in the press that occurred yesterday. It is very much appreciated. One of the NCI projects, the preparation of the I-131 Fallout Report, unfortunately took 14 years to complete. Too many years. That was for two reasons. First, the recruitment of all the experts involved in the study, the data collection, management and analysis, computer programs and drafting of the report took roughly between 10 and 11 years--much longer than either the advisory committee or I originally predicted, but not inconsistent with other studies of this type. Second, and perhaps more importantly, for almost 2 years, from 1994 to 1996, the preparation of the report received little attention. I sincerely regret that this has happened and I take responsibility for the delay and acknowledge that the report could have gotten out faster. One of the concerns expressed by the Subcommittee has been that those of us involved in the report--and I certainly include myself in that group--should have been more sensitive to the public's interest in the findings, and we should have involved the public more in its development and dissemination. In retrospect we should have involved citizens in some way in all aspects of the project. We did provide continuous presentations to the scientific community at meetings of National Cancer Institute Advisory Boards, groups at international and national meetings and to other Federal agencies who assisted with the methodology. As the previous participant, Dr. Hoffman, mentioned, it was discussed in the scientific community. There was no intent to deceive or to conceal this information from anyone, including the public. It, perhaps erroneously, never occurred to me that the delay in publishing would be interpreted as a so-called coverup or concealment of data. In fact, one of my primary efforts in the preparation of the final document was to ensure that the various categories of persons, various diets and so on, be clarified in the report so that those persons in the public who might be interested in the report would be able to understand the information more clearly and have the opportunity to construct their own estimated doses. This required extensive rewriting of the document to make it as user-friendly as it now appears in print and on the Internet. The recent review of the report by the National Academy of Sciences found it to be a careful, detailed and responsible effort with scientific results consistent in most respects with the Academy's own analysis. But the reviewers also recommended that a focused effort be made with the help of the public to develop a program of public information and education about the consequences of the Nevada weapons tests. I am aware of the criticisms and concerns expressed by many about the length of time it took to make our findings available to the general public. And I agree and subscribe certainly to Dr. Klausner's statement in last October's hearing on this same matter, that a clear, faster and more aggressive plan should have been put in place to make the results public. During that same time period, from 1991 forward, non- government scientists, NCI staff and I were involved in developing long-term studies of health effects, specifically of the thyroid that might result from exposure to I-131 from the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant accident in 1986. We hope that these studies will provide a more definitive answer in order to assess the risks of thyroid cancer associated with exposure to I-131 and, thereby, help to respond to the third component of the Congressional mandate.\1\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ See Exhibit 13, which appears in the Appendix on page 893. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- However, this is a long-term clinical epidemiology study in countries of the former Soviet Union where we face many challenges. I surely have learned from the I-131 Report experience that this research is of interest not just to scientists but also to the medical profession and to the public. Therefore, we are all making efforts to inform the public as new information becomes available. For example, last December we presented the I-131 Report to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Advisory Committee on Energy Related Epidemiologic Research, referred to as ACERER, which includes both non-government scientists, such as Dr. Hoffman whom you heard from earlier, but also members of the public. And we are scheduled to discuss the Chernobyl project with the same advisory committee in November of this year. In addition, last week our contractor at Columbia University, who is working with us on the Chernobyl studies, and I presented these studies to the National Cancer Advisory Board--which also includes members of the public and medical professionals. The CDC participated in that presentation, as well. These Chernobyl studies are the result of interagency cooperation and could not have come about without the help of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the Department of Energy, NCI staff, and many non-government scientists with special expertise who are willing to devote their time and effort to overcoming the challenges involved in helping Belarus and Ukraine conduct these studies. We have resolved the many and challenging difficulties that have come to our attention so far and I am glad to report that screening of populations is underway in both Ukraine and Belarus. In fact, in the first year of screenings, Belarus is very close to meeting its projected target for participant accrual. When asked last week at the National Cancer Advisory Board's open session about the progress of the Chernobyl project, Dr. Jeffery Howe, who leads the contract with Columbia University to provide scientific and technical support in aspects of these projects, said it quite well and I quote, ``. . . all epidemiology takes a long time to get going. So, despite the apparent length of time I was not surprised and was not discouraged. And . . . since I have been actively involved in the thyroid studies, I have actually been very impressed that things are moving now. . . .'' We, at NCI, share his optimism and are encouraged by the pace of accrual. Shortly, Bi-National Advisory committees will meet to discuss how they can best advise all entities involved about the progress of the project and how to maintain the integrity of the research. Our foreign colleagues and we look forward to receiving their guidance, including how best to communicate information as it becomes available. We know that communicating results of our radiation studies to the public requires a careful and thoughtful plan and my colleagues and I will be mindful of that in the future. In fact, we will work closely with the CDC in order to plan for future information for the public in a more thoughtful and sensitive manner. That concludes my remarks. I would be happy to answer questions. Senator Collins. Thank you. Dr. Klausner, I know you have submitted a written statement for the record. Would you like to make a few brief remarks? Dr. Klausner. Yes. TESTIMONY OF RICHARD D. KLAUSNER, M.D.,\1\ DIRECTOR, NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES Dr. Klausner. Let me just respond to a few issues that have been brought up about how we communicate this very important and troubling information to the public. Once I became aware of the study, which was in the spring of 1997, we moved very, very quickly to make sure that this is presented to professional communities, public health communities, and to the public. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ The prepared statement of Dr. Klausner appears in the Appendix on page 75. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This report was unprecedented, in that it was 110,000 pages. It was very complex and we wanted to make it in a form-- and it is very hard to do, and there is lots that we can do better--accessible to everyone. We put it out on the Internet. Individuals can go in and can reconstruct their own predicted doses, based upon where they were born, when they were born, and if they can remember, what they ate and how much they drank--recognizing that there are great uncertainties here. We met with and spoke with all State and territorial health officials. We had an extensive communication plan with professional societies, including the American Thyroid Association. There were special sessions at those meetings to develop what they would say to their members so that we would put out the information that you and Senator Glenn have asked for: What should physicians say? What should individuals ask? Where they can get information? We had many press conferences. The press certainly was very helpful in making sure this is a very widely known report. We were moving to release it as quickly as we could in, as I said, an unprecedented way. We have a lot of communication mechanisms at the NCI. The most widely used service for getting free information about cancer in English and in Spanish is available through a 1-800- number [1-800-4-CANCER], and we had questions and answers put there. We did an enormous amount last year--and continue to help work with professional societies to get this information out and to put it in the context of what to do, what we know, and how much about this we do not know. There is still great uncertainty about the implications. Importantly and largely because of the question of whether the Federal Government is credible about these issues--because of this terrible history and legacy of secrecy and what the government had done--we turned to an independent entity, the Institute of Medicine and the National Academy of Sciences, so that they could look at the study, if it was well done, if it was credible and, specifically, to make advice to all of us--to the Nation--about what we should do in terms of public health implications, medical monitoring implications, and advice about what we should do for education and communication. I know that we can do everything better but I want to assure you that ever since this report came to my attention I think we have moved in an unprecedented way to be open, to be communicative, to provide the type of information that you have been asking for today, and the type of information that Dr. Hoffman has talked about. One final thing. The CDC has done a spectacular job with radiation-related studies, including the Community and Oversight Boards. What we have done since a year ago is sign a memorandum of understanding between myself and the head of this area of the CDC. All NCI radiation studies are now presented to the CDC's Public Oversight Board to correct what we saw were deficiencies in the process and which I know you are concerned about. So, I just want to assure you that we have been acting. Senator Collins. Thank you. Dr. Raub. TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM F. RAUB, PH.D.,\1\ DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR SCIENCE POLICY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES Dr. Raub. Thank you. Madam Chairman, Senator Glenn, I am pleased to present the perspective of the Department of Health and Human Services on the conduct of two studies designed to examine the effects of exposure to Iodine-131 following nuclear testing or accidents. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ The prepared statement of Dr. Raub appears in the Appendix on page 87. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- My colleagues and I appreciate the time and attention the Subcommittee staff has devoted to its review of these studies. The Department recognizes as understandable and legitimate the frequently expressed concern that the exposed populations in both cases may be at higher risk of diseases of the thyroid, particularly cancer. We share your desire that our research be conducted both rigorously and efficiently and that outcomes be used to promote national policies that are protective of the public health. The National Cancer Institute is the appropriate organization to direct research toward resolving these concerns. It has the requisite expertise and experience. In particular, its staff includes leading international authorities on radiation epidemiology and radiation dosimetry. The Subcommittee has raised important questions about our response to Public Law 97-414, which directed the Department to conduct the study related to the Iodine-131 fallout from the Nevada Test Site. NCI clearly took too long to complete the study. We have learned important lessons about use of resources and the setting of priorities as a result of our experience with the Iodine-131 study. NCI already has instituted important management reforms to ensure that repetitions of this do not happen. The Department, for its part on a broader basis, will review its procedures for monitoring such major studies and, where necessary, will institute reforms to ensure that we do not repeat the experience of the Iodine-131 study. As you know, the Institute of Medicine reviewed the NCI study and recently issued its own report. IOM assessed the soundness of National Cancer Institute's analysis and assumptions and its estimates of risk of thyroid disease from Iodine-131 fallout. IOM also analyzed the issues associated with population-based screening for thyroid cancer and the challenges associated with providing clear and useful information about the risks of both radiation and screening to those who have been exposed. We are currently studying IOM's report so that the Department can be responsive to its findings. I call your attention to the fact that IOM did not recommend population-based screening for people exposed to radiation fallout. Testimony earlier today from the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, however, indicates that it recommends medical monitoring for people exposed to radiation from the Hanford Nuclear Reactor. In his testimony, Dr. Johnson, of ATSDR, compared his agency's recommendation with the IOM findings. He correctly noted that ATSDR, and NCI studies differed considerably with regard to circumstances, methodology, outcomes, and requirements. On their face, the ATSDR and IOM conclusions do not appear to be in conflict. However, the Department will review policies and practices at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, ATSDR and NCI to identify significant differences, if any, in their respective approaches to dose reconstruction and determinations regarding the need for and feasibility of population-based screening or medical monitoring. If we find any differences that we believe jeopardize the Department's ability to be protective of the public health, we will initiate corrective action. The ongoing NCI study of the Chernobyl disaster is a unique opportunity to examine the effects of radiation on people. We have confidence that the Institute is on course toward identifying proper cohorts, estimating exposure, and assessing risks of disease. The Department is aware of the difficulties of conducting such research in countries that had been part of the former Soviet Union. The science of epidemiology is not as uniformly well developed there as here. In many cases resources and experience lag far behind those available in the United States, and managing a major international study in an area of the world that is experiencing significant political and economic instability is a difficult undertaking. As a consequence, I do not think we should judge the progress of the Chernobyl study using the same standards that we would apply to a study conducted in the United States. Nevertheless, the Subcommittee staff, in its discussions with us preceding this hearing, raised several important management issues related to the Chernobyl research. Because this research is so important and, we hope, the only opportunity we ever have to study such exposure in human beings, the Department wants to be certain that the Chernobyl work is done as effectively and as efficiently as possible. We recognize the concerns of the Subcommittee, and we take them seriously. I will work with NCI staff to arrange for an independent review of the Chernobyl project to identify any problems associated with the way the work is planned, organized, conducted, and overseen. Our plan to seek an independent review does not mean we lack confidence in the National Cancer Institute. To the contrary, we believe NCI is the right organization to conduct this research, and we are intent upon doing everything reasonable toward ensuring that the project remains appropriately oriented and proceeds as expeditiously as circumstances allow. We will await the outcome of the independent review with an open mind. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. Senator Collins. Thank you, Dr. Raub. Dr. Wachholz, I want to get in my mind a clear understanding of the timetable and also the reasons for delay. Dr. Hoffman testified this morning that the NCI report was essentially completed in 1992, is that correct? Dr. Wachholz. The data base and most of the analysis were complete by that time, yes, Ma'am. The report, itself, in its entirety was not complete until 1994. Senator Collins. All right. I will accept the 1994 date then for the purposes of this discussion. Considering that the study's findings were that people in unexpected areas of the country, including States like Maine, were exposed to high levels of radiation, why did you wait so long before releasing this information to the public? That is the question that I am having a great deal of difficulty with. Dr. Wachholz. Understandably so, Madam Chair. I have to take you back to that time. Quite candidly, there had been literally no inquiry with regard to this particular study during the preceding 10 or 11 years. In addition, our Advisory Committee had been disbanded in 1993. Certainly wrongly in retrospect, obviously, the sense was that nobody was really terribly interested in this. That, in and of itself, is not sufficient. I think you also have to keep in mind that concurrent with those times we were becoming increasingly involved in the Chernobyl studies which were taking a great deal of time, particularly from 1993, 1994, 1995, and onward. We could not do both with equal dedication. Given the situation at NCI at that time, when there were uncertainties and changes in management in 1993, 1994, and 1995, I had to make a decision as to whether or not we would make a major effort to establish ourselves in the countries of the former Soviet Union in order to work with the governments there in order to address the third component of the law that has been mentioned earlier, namely the risk co-efficient for thyroid cancer--versus getting the report out and letting the Chernobyl study pass essentially--and we could not do both with equal dedication at that time. Senator Collins. The public cannot be interested in what the public does not know. The interest in this report was enormous once it finally was released. Was there any concern on your part that, did you delay for any reason, related to your concern about what public reaction to the report might be? Dr. Wachholz. No, Ma'am. Senator Collins. Was the report only released when Congress started pressuring the agency, saying, where is this report? We were notified back in 1992 by the NCI that we were going to receive it in 1992. Dr. Wachholz. When Dr. Klausner and his senior staff became established in mid-to-late 1995, the situation was discussed with my supervisor at that time, and steps were taken to augment the staff. So, starting in 1996, I could devote time to getting this report out. In early 1997, I think, I wrote a letter to CDC responding to their request as to when the report would be out. I think I indicated at that time that we were hoping to have it out by October 1, 1997, which predated any of the press involvement. We recognized ourselves that we just had to get this report out and once we had a management structure in place to be of assistance in this, we made progress on it. Senator Collins. I know that Senator Glenn is going to want to follow-up on those issues. I am just going to ask one question of Dr. Raub before turning over the questioning to Senator Glenn. Does not HHS bear some responsibility here? It was HHS' decision to delegate the report to the National Cancer Institute. How did HHS let such an important study fall through the cracks? Do you not have a system for tracking congressionally mandated studies? Dr. Raub. Madam Chairman, you are right. The Department does bear responsibility with NCI here. The system for tracking congressionally mandated projects clearly failed in this instance. Senator Collins. Senator Glenn. Senator Glenn. Well, is there a system? Dr. Raub. Yes, sir. It is not clearly as uniform as it ought to be but there are attempts, especially with appropriations actions within the Department, to try to ensure that there is systematic follow-up. We clearly have not done as good a job with respect to mandates occurring in legislation outside of appropriations. Senator Glenn. I would think this would be fairly simple, not only in your office, but out in NCI also, Dr. Klausner. You came in 1995, so, a lot of this pre-dates your arrival there. But any big endeavor like the Department's or agencies that you operate will often have a big board on the wall or a pert chart where you list the different things and when they are due. The list includes all these things, including due dates and whether it either made it or it does not. How do you keep faith with the people who asked for this report? There apparently is no such system operable. Or, at least for this report, if there is, it really fell through the cracks because we are talking about 14 years. And we are talking about even when we received annual reports from NIH and the annual reports of the National Cancer Institute from 1992 to 1995 regarding this report, the report stated that the activities, ``Have been completed during the current reporting period.'' Each year they are telling us over and over again the report has been completed and then additionally the Advisory Committee for the study was even disbanded in 1993 as you have mentioned, Dr. Wachholz. So, here we have a study all completed and nobody is checking on it to see that it just gets submitted. Now, somewhere, obviously, things fell through the cracks and Dr. Wachholz is taking complete responsibility for this. I gather that you had competing things demanding your time. Are you short-handed? Do we need more support in these areas? Obviously the squeaky wheel gets the grease at NIH or NCI or any place else and if we are not griping about not getting a report, maybe it gets shifted back some place and that is not the way the system is supposed to work. We should not have to heckle people into getting a report once the thing is done. It should not sit out there for years. And you have already admitted that this report fell through the cracks, but this makes me wonder how many more reports have been requested for very good reasons, people doing studies and so on and concerns about health, and how many more are sitting some place because there is not a system in place to make sure that we get them moving off dead center and in here somewhere close to their deadline. Now, do we have a system or do we not? I will start with you, you are HHS, and then I will go to Dr. Klausner and see what kind of a system you actually have right now. Dr. Raub. The system that exists now, Senator Glenn, is oriented heavily toward those requirements that are associated with appropriations bills, as I indicated. I am not aware that we are remiss in failing to track or report other mandated studies, but I could not at this moment give you assurance that we are not. Senator Glenn. What you are saying is, unless it is an appropriations bill then it is going to get sent back to second status, is that correct? Dr. Raub. No, sir. I did not mean to imply that, but rather that I believe the system is better developed with respect to appropriations language. Senator Glenn. Well, we are not an appropriating committee over here and, yet, we ask for studies. This Committee, as a matter of fact, I think we have a record on this Committee. We did not set out to do it that way. But we have the broadest areas of responsibility on this Committee of any committee in the Congress. We overlap almost every other committee. Most people do not realize that. And we normally have the most General Accounting Office studies, for instance, going on behalf of this Committee. And, so, we probably have a lot of requests out there and I do not want to think because it does not involve an appropriation matter that we are going to get second-class treatment, unless we are notified. If somebody says we have got an appropriation matter and they are demanding action right now, we got to get that thing out there for them, right now, I understand that. The appropriations are the big stick around here and that is understandable. But then if it comes at a time when we have said we would like to have it by a certain time and you have agreed it is going to be by a certain time, then we should be notified of that. And we are very understanding of the appropriations problems. But we cannot have anything like this dropping through the cracks where it sits for 14 years although it was done in 1992. And in 1993 you disband the committee and we are still sitting. And it does not see the light of day until Senator Daschle's staff, I believe, made an inquiry in 1997. That is how it finally came to light that it was not up here. Maybe some of the rest of us should have our own little check-off lists up here, too. But I would hope that we do not have to go through that. We should depend on you to do that for us. Dr. Raub. You are absolutely right, Senator. We should ensure that the system is uniformly effective. Senator Glenn. Good. What do you have, do you have a big chart in your office out there, Dr. Klausner? And if not, why not? Dr. Klausner. No, I do not. But what we---- Senator Glenn. Well, you are going to develop one real quick, are you not? Dr. Klausner. No. Actually we have already done it and it is on the computer screen. But there was no uniform tracking system and this issue brought that to light. So, what we have developed over the last year is what we think is a very good computer-based tracking system for all Congressional requests, all reports, wherever they come from. It will be automatically updated so it will automatically generate the progress reports. We did not have that system before. It will be fully operational this Fall. We have been prototyping it and developing it over this past year. And I think that is exactly how this happened. When I came in to head the agency there were thousands of projects and I simply did not learn about this project until it was brought to my attention. And you are right, it was from a letter from Senator Daschle that I realized that this was something that had been requested by the Congress. Senator Glenn. OK. Everybody is saying we did wrong on this and we are going to correct it and all that. Let us move on to Chernobyl. I am concerned about that, because as I understand it, that is supposed to provide us and other countries around the world with a great deal of information about the relationship between radioactive iodine and thyroid cancer. Although it is not our country, they gave us permission and we are quite happy to come in and do this study working with their people. And normally in doing these things we have a protocol set up on how it is going to go. And that is what we call these arrangements made, governed by scientific plans, it is a scientific plan called a protocol. And these protocols were signed in 1994 by a number of countries. And there was supposed to be a committee to oversee that, an advisory committee, as I understand it. And they would manage and oversee our involvement in that study. Now, that was to be several different countries represented. What is the status of that? As I understand it, when did those people get appointed? This whole thing started way back. Dr. Wachholz, you were asked in 1994 to appoint five individuals to that committee. When were those people nominated or selected? Dr. Wachholz. We began identifying people and inviting their participation in 1996. And the delay there, if you read the protocol--with your permission I can read the relevant section or sentence. Senator Glenn. Certainly. Dr. Wachholz. ``With the approval of the project by authorities of both countries and assurance of funding by both sides, the oversight group or advisory committee would be confirmed.'' The assurance of funding really did not occur until 1996, both in their governments as well as financial support from the United States to the scientists working on these projects in Belarus and Ukraine. Senator Glenn. You did not name the board then for that length of time because the funding was not there to establish the board or what? Dr. Wachholz. That is part of it. The other part is that the studies actually began in terms of involvement of subjects of the study in 1997 in a serious way. Senator Glenn. Well, we had the original plan that called for conducting this study in Belarus and it is about 4 years old now. Can you tell us how many people were supposed to have been screened by the end of 1997, by the end of last year and what our status is in that? Dr. Wachholz. Senator, I will be glad to answer your question but could I put it in context first? Senator Glenn. Sure. Dr. Wachholtz. We are dealing with systems over there that do not have a history of research in the context that we are talking about here. Between, for example, 1994 and 1996, there were three changes in ministers of health in Belarus, there were six changes of ministers of health in Ukraine. In Belarus, also, we faced changes in the directors of the institute that we are working with, as well as many of the senior staff. This led to a great deal of difficulty. Also, we learned, for example, that the signature on the agreement in 1994--by the minister of health of Belarus--had not been validated by the Council of Ministers of the President of that country. That did not occur until 1996. So, I am just giving you the very tip of the iceberg of the type of problems we have had to overcome there. These are their people, their scientists. We are working with them, but we are not conducting the study. And we have to adjust our expectations to the realities that we find over there that are different every time we go over, literally. Senator Glenn. OK. Now, you have been operating pretty much without this advisory committee then that was not possible to set up, you say, until some time in 1996. Then you have been operating just sort of out of National Cancer Institute, yourself? Dr. Wachholz. No, sir. Senator Glenn. Or how? Dr. Wachholz. In the early 1990's, when NCI first began to get involved in this at the request of the Department of Energy, we established a working group under and associated with the Fallout Advisory Committee that was subsequently disbanded in 1993. There were 10 people on this working group. Roughly half were Federal scientists and half non-Federal scientists. Most of those people are still working with us today. That group was called, for shorthand, a working group, which dealt with both countries. That existed until September 1996. From 1996 on, the individuals were still working with us, not as a group, but as consultants, essentially. So, all the way along this entire development we have had people outside the government as well as inside the government working with us, giving us guidance on all aspects of things--including people in other agencies, and the State Department, and the embassies--on how to face the problems we have come up against. In 1996, Dr. Klausner met with senior officials of the Department of Energy and decided that because these studies were imminent in terms of their implementation, we would need to augment the resources available within this country. The decision was made at that time to go out for a contract for scientific and technical involvement on a more broad-scale basis because many of the people that had been working with us, if I may say so, are very senior citizens. I hesitate to say that to you, sir, but---- Senator Glenn. That is quite all right. In some of my endeavors, age has become an advantage not a disadvantage. [Laughter.] Dr. Wachholz. The contract was let at the end of September 1997. Since then we have had access to additional outside expertise through the contract, as well as from the people that have been working with us all the way along the line. So, through this entire period it is not just NCI or our organization that has directed or controlled this study. It has involved a lot more people than that. Senator Glenn. Well, I understand that. My big concern is that we are about 12 years after Chernobyl and every year, every month that goes by it gets tougher and tougher and tougher to contact the people and do the studies and find out who is where and all the rest. So, we have got everybody dispersed and as you say, there have been many changes of administration. There may be more one of these days, we do not know. But anyway we are going through a time period where time is of the essence and we are letting it get away from us. Now, maybe it has not been under your control, but we had planned by this time, by some of the figures I was given, the original plan called for us by the end of 1997 to have screened some 15,000 people. What we were able to do, we have had 3,500 contacts and we have had 2,900 who have been screened. Now, maybe that is a sample large enough to tell us a lot. I do not know. Maybe we can get as much out of 2,900 as we would if we had done the whole 15,000. That was in Belarus. In the Ukraine, the original plan was to have screened 30,000 people and today we have had 800 contacts and 530 screened. And maybe there have been all the management and the funding problems but I am concerned that this is beginning to get away from us as far as time goes. Is there a management plan, a management structure in place that is really managing this and are the pieces beginning to fit in there and we are ready to go? Because pretty soon you begin to raise the question of whether money spent on this is going to be worthwhile. After we get up to 15 years or so, if we have not found out something about what happened at Chernobyl or do not have enough cooperation from them or funding or whatever, why I think we need to begin to think about the viability of it and whether it is worth the candle here. So, I would appreciate your comments on that. Do we now have a management structure in place? And then, Dr. Klausner, I would like to have you comment on it also. Something has to be managed here to the point where we either get results one of these days, after 12 years, or let us just say it was a bad deal and we will forget it. Dr. Wachholz. Senator, I know it has been 12 years since Chernobyl. The involvement of our activities obviously has been less than that. But in terms of the delays, and you mentioned Ukraine specifically, the Ukrainian Government imposed the regulatory constraints on us at the end of 1996 that precluded us from doing anything until earlier this year. I think now that we have resolved those they are beginning to get started. As you indicated, with 529 participants. That is just their effort since, I think, May or June. We anticipate that that is going to pick up rather dramatically over the next several months or year. In Belarus, once the screening was to be started, I think that the first year of screening the protocol originally had projected 3,000. We are pretty close to that. Whether we can keep that up or not will depend on circumstances over there. Certainly we have to adjust as we go over there every time. In terms of the long-range plan, the protocol is the ultimate long-range plan. But in terms of developing the resources and the financial support to do this, we are working on that, so that we do not run into the same problem that we ran into on the fallout study. Senator Glenn. Dr. Klausner. Dr. Klausner. Senator, I think that all of us who look at this study recognize how important it could be and how difficult it is going to be. We should be under no illusions. For many of our clinical studies where there is a clinical epidemiologic study, there are tremendous difficulties and over there the difficulties are amplified. I wish I can guarantee the rate at which we would get a result. We certainly want to make sure these studies are completed. One of the reasons that we had this presented to our National Cancer Advisory Board is to ask those questions. The delay from beginning was getting an infrastructure in place. I think the original protocol was very unrealistic and it was written as if it was doing a study in the United States and as if there was an infrastructure to do this sort of study. It has taken the last several years to build the infrastructure, to build relations, to build trust, to build expertise, to build data bases, to translate things. I think the most important thing--from my oversight of it, to see how it is going, and for the National Cancer Advisory Board--is that once we got to that point of getting an infrastructure in place so the study could happen: Is the rate of identification of the cohorts, the rate of response of the individuals, and the rate of screening, going up? Is it increasing? Does it look like we are going to achieve the milestones? So far it is looking optimistic. I do not want to overstate that. This is going to be a difficult study to complete. But it is progressing and I think the entire Advisory Board really felt that. They mostly felt how amazingly difficult the challenge of the study is going to be but that once we have gotten the infrastructure in place and they actually began screening, the rate of screening is not very far from the projection in terms of the quarterly rate. Senator Glenn. Well, correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that some of the other nations have been in there looking at these things, too, and doing screening and I do not know what their problems are. But I understand, I have been told anyway that the Japanese have already screened 160,000 kids between 1991 and 1996. Why can they do these things and we cannot? What is the problem? Dr. Klausner. The nature of the studies is really quite different. There have been thousands of publications already that have come out from studies related to the Chernobyl accident. But to attempt to do the type of study that has never been done--a careful dosimetry, dose reconstruction--so that we ultimately can actually have not estimates but a real assessment of what the risk is in humans, as a function of age and gender, from a dose of Iodine-131 received? What is that risk of getting cancer over years? That has not been done. I think the complexity of this study, the importance of this study, is just that. But with that importance is an increased complexity that is different from a lot of the other studies, for any of the other studies that have been done. Senator Glenn. Well, they went in there, their study had a different purpose than ours, is that correct? Dr. Klausner. Yes, I believe that is right. Senator Glenn. Correct, Dr. Wachholz? Dr. Wachholz. Yes, sir. Senator Glenn. Yes. The 1994 protocol called for an annual report to the Advisory Committee. That report is supposed to assess organization of the study, progress, staffing, equipment, status of locating subjects, fiscal report. Has such a report ever been prepared? Dr. Wachholz. No, sir, there is no report of the Advisory Committee because there is no Advisory Committee at this point. There are progress reports from the countries on a quarterly basis, but they have not been consolidated into an annual report. If I may, sir, you are focusing on the Advisory Committee. We, at this point, do have an Advisory Committee, and we have had one on several occasions in the past. But for one reason or another people have had to withdraw because of either actual or perceived conflict of interest. As of this date we have identified individuals for the U.S. component. We have their counterparts from Belarus and Ukraine and we certainly expect to schedule a meeting as soon as we can get everyone's calendar to match. Senator Glenn. I am concerned about the management structure and Dr. Klausner, maybe you ought to comment more on this. I would ask, first, do we at this time have a project plan on this? Do we have a 3- and a 5-year budget plan for equipment and supplies and people and---- Dr. Klausner. Yes. Senator Glenn. Where are we going with this thing? Is it now, in other words, organized or do we need to ask you to have a report from you within 30 days where you detail what the plan is and the management structure or---- Dr. Klausner. I would be delighted to provide one. Senator Glenn [continuing]. Or can you assure us today that it is all set up and ready to go? Dr. Klausner. I can assure you today that it is going. It is happening. I think, again, part of what is difficult about this is that given the nature of the study we have to be nimble and flexible. We keep running into problems. We discover them. We run into the need for new expertise. And we need to be able to respond to that. We can get into sort of ``the best laid plans of mice and men.'' We can have a written out protocol. We are trying to follow it. I can and will be happy to provide for you a description of how we are getting the studies done. There is a management structure. There is a reporting structure. There is a project director. I want to emphasize the project director in Belarus is a Byelorussian scientist and the project director for the Ukrainian study is Ukrainian. We are advisory to them and we work with them. The major way that we determine the budget is that we have a 3-year contract, with Columbia University; so we have a 3- year budget, with a 2-year period of award increase. That is the way we budget these sorts of projects. That is the way we always budget them. We have interactions with the NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Commission) to provide for equipment and, in addition, we have the updated estimates that I get with each annual budget from the division that Dr. Wachholz is in, what we are going to need to support new meetings, travel and that is approved every year. We are committed to this. We only have, as you know, 1-year funding. But we plan for multi-year projects. That is what we do for all of our projects. I am happy to provide that for you in writing. Senator Glenn. Well, staff was informed that there are no 3- or 5-year budget plans for equipment and supplies, is that correct? Dr. Klausner. I have been given a projection of the estimate of the next 3 years' budget. These are changing year- by-year as we see, for example, whether a van breaks down and then we need to buy a van. I think that is the nature of this. We are committed to try to find the dollars. We have a base budget which we think are the predicted costs that we are going to need to fulfill the contract, to fulfill the staff obligations, and a commitment for equipment. What happens as you go along all of these long-term projects is that there are, in fact, unexpected costs. Senator Glenn. I understand that but do you have the overall plan, a 3- and 5-year plan for equipment and supplies? Is that in place now, so, we know what is going to be expected? Dr. Klausner. I can give you the 3-year--which is all that has been presented to me--estimate of what dollars are going to be needed in each fiscal year for this project. I have that, as we do for all of our clinical trials. But I will emphasize that they change, essentially, yearly. Senator Glenn. I understand the change, but what I am concerned with is there is a management structure that even if it changes year-in/year-out, we have a structure here that is dealing with this on a year-in and year-out basis. Dr. Klausner. Yes, we do. Senator Glenn. And if you have it for the 3-year plan, could we have that submitted to the Committee for our records? Dr. Klausner. Sure.\1\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ See Exhibit 6, which appears in the Appendix on page 767. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Senator Glenn. Then we will know what your planning is in that direction. Dr. Klausner. Sure. Senator Glenn. And do you have milestones and hurdles you expect to hit, Dr. Wachholz? Do you have things in here that you hope to accomplish by a certain time and have some idea now that after all this time we are going to get the information we need? Dr. Klausner. Well, as you pointed out, our original projections for time factors and when things would be accomplished was rather unrealistic when we came face-to-face with reality over there. We have learned from that and, so, our milestone projections at this point are basically on a quarterly basis. When we go over there, we work with people, we identify, review and so on, what the previous milestones have accomplished, where they stand and what can be done in the next quarter. Senator Glenn. Dr. Raub, there seems to be some discrepancy or a great discrepancy in the way that different agencies approach their radiation research, especially with respect to openness and public participation. Obviously we get greater credibility and public acceptance the more open these studies are. What are you doing in the Department, what kind of effort are you putting forward to establish a departmentwide policies and guidelines so that there will be a consistent approach to these studies? Dr. Raub. Senator, heretofore, we have not. We viewed it as a matter delegated to the respective agencies. As Dr. Johnson indicated before, much of the work at the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry and the Centers for Disease Control tends to be, to use his phrase, site-specific and, therefore readily focuses on the potentially affected populations. And I believe it has worked well in terms of broader public involvement in those processes. In hindsight, as indicated also by earlier testimony, the larger NCI study did not do that. In my testimony I indicated that collectively, as the Department, we would look at our practices and procedures related to dose reconstruction and other considerations to ensure that we do not have significant unexplainable differences in our approaches and try to promote, as it is appropriate, a greater degree of uniformity across the Department. Senator Glenn. OK. I want to commend you and HHS for agreeing, as you said earlier, agreeing to undertake an audit of the Chernobyl, and I look forward to having information from you at that time. I would say that if you get information that you think is appropriate for the Subcommittee, we would appreciate it being forwarded to the Subcommittee by letter, rather than waiting for a hearing or something. Dr. Raub. Yes, sir. Senator Glenn. Because we will be out of session, this being an election year, we will not be in until January. I would hope we would be getting some information on these very shortly. These are things we have waited for, for a long time. Now, Dr. Klausner, you said you have thousands of projects out at NCI, which you do. Have you screened those to see if you are overdue by X number of years, months, or whatever, on reports that we have been expecting here or somebody has been expecting for a long time? Dr. Klausner. I have certainly asked for that. We have been reviewing everything and we have not found anything that at all looked like this 12-year project. Senator Glenn. Thank you, Madam Chair. Senator Collins. Thank you, gentlemen. I think that we have learned from this experience. When dealing with an issue that has serious public health consequences, it really is imperative that deadlines be met or that the agencies involved give an explanation to Congress as to why they are not being met. To fail to do so only creates a climate of distrust, apprehension and fear that is in no one's interests and that can lead to wrong conclusions of conflict of interest or concealment or cover-up being reached. I do not believe that is what happened in this case. I think it is an example of poor management and of failure to understand the public interest in the report in the sensitivity of the materials. It is, nevertheless, important that these kinds of mistakes not occur in the future and I think that Senator Glenn's emphasis on simply having a system where reports are tracked is a very good one. I want to yield to Senator Glenn for any concluding comments that he might have or any concluding questions. Senator Glenn. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I would just ask that the record be kept open for 10 days so that we might, if other Members do have questions in this regard or if we have some follow-up questions we think about that we should have asked today and did not, we hope the witnesses would respond promptly so that we can get that as part of the record. So, I would ask unanimous consent that that be the case. Senator Collins. The record will remain open for 10 days for the inclusion of additional materials and possible additional questions and answers for the record as well as any public comments that may be submitted to the Subcommittee. I want to thank Senator Glenn for bringing this issue before the Subcommittee. It was a very interesting issue. I know that I learned a lot and I believe that we served our constituents well by pursuing this issue. Senator Glenn. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I appreciate very much your willingness to hold a hearing on this. I think it is important and I think we have aired this pretty well today. I can see where we maybe have had some deficiencies in the past. I hope, because of this hearing, we will see those things corrected. Senator Collins. Thank you. The hearing is now adjourned. 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