[Senate Hearing 107-419]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 107-419
THE USE OF THE JOINT TRIBAL ADVISORY COMMISSION FUNDS BY THE STANDING
ROCK SIOUX TRIBE
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
ON
TO DISCUSS THE FUNDING AUTHORIZED UNDER THE THREE AFFILIATED TRIBES AND
THE STANDING ROCK SIOUX TRIBE EQUITABLE COMPENSATION ACT
__________
APRIL 3, 2002
FORT YATES, ND
78-904 U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON : 2002
____________________________________________________________________________
For Sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office
Internet: bookstore.gpr.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; (202) 512�091800
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COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS
DANIEL K. INOUYE, Hawaii, Chairman
BEN NIGHTHORSE CAMPBELL, Colorado, Vice Chairman
FRANK MURKOWSKI, Alaska KENT CONRAD, North Dakota
JOHN McCAIN, Arizona, HARRY REID, Nevada
PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii
CRAIG THOMAS, Wyoming PAUL WELLSTONE, Minnesota
ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah BYRON L. DORGAN, North Dakota
JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma TIM JOHNSON, South Dakota
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
Patricia M. Zell, Majority Staff Director/Chief Counsel
Paul Moorehead, Minority Staff Director/Chief Counsel
(ii)
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Statements:
Archambault, Dave............................................ 22
Conrad, Hon. Kent, U.S. Senator from North Dakota............ 1
Defender Wilson, Mary Louise................................. 15
End of Horn, Lynes, Bear Soldier District.................... 50
Good House, Cedric, vice chairman, Executive JTAC Commission,
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe.................................. 31
Harrison, Janet, representative, Rock Creek District......... 47
Hill, Manajaunjinca.......................................... 33
Iron Eyes, Chase............................................. 47
Jones, Cora, Aberdeen Regional Director, BIA................. 8
Kills Pretty Enemy, Jerald, representative, Rock Creek
District................................................... 49
Marvin, Shirley, Tetuwan Oceti Sakowin Treaty Council........ 39
McLaughlin, Jeff............................................. 34
McLaughlin, Robert........................................... 18
McNeil, Ron Sun, president, Sitting Bull College............. 25
Medicine, Errol.............................................. 46
Medicine, Wilma.............................................. 48
Mentz, Alma.................................................. 40
Murphy, Charles W., chairman, Standing Rock Sioux Tribe...... 4
Red Tomahawk, Pete, district chairman, Cannon Ball Comunity.. 33
Silbernagel, Shannon, member, Executive JTAC Commission...... 43
Taken Alive, Faith, Bear Soldier District.................... 37
White Bull, Maxine, Kenel District........................... 51
White Eagle, Wanda........................................... 37
White Mountain, Anthony, progam coordinator, Lakota Resident
Management Corporation, McLaughlin, SD..................... 41
White, Randal, tribal councilman, Porcupine, ND.............. 40
Wiest, Fred, owner, Grey Eagle Management.................... 44
Yellow Fat, Terrence, chairman, Fort Yates District Council,
Fort Yates, ND............................................. 30
Young, Phyllis, member, Fort Yates Local District Planning
Commission................................................. 42
Appendix
Prepared statements:
Archambault, Dave............................................ 74
Defender Wilson, Mary Louise (with attachments).............. 56
Good House, Cedric........................................... 233
Jones, Cora.................................................. 53
McLaughlin, Robert........................................... 65
McNeil, Ron Sun.............................................. 53
Murphy, Charles W............................................ 238
Yellow Fat, Terrence (with attachments)...................... 78
Additional material submitted for the record:
End of Horn, Lynes, survey................................... 242
Martin, Theresa, letter...................................... 236
Note: Other material submitted for the record are retained in
committee files.
THE USE OF THE JOINT TRIBAL ADVISORY COMMISSION FUNDS BY THE STANDING
ROCK SIOUX TRIBE
----------
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 3, 2002
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Indian Affairs,
Fort Yates, ND.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m. at
Standing Rock High School, Fort Yates, ND, Hon. Kent Conrad
(acting chairman of the committee) presiding.
Present: Senator Conrad.
Mr. Murphy. I would like to introduce Senator Kent Conrad
to the Standing Rock Indian Reservation here. Let's give him a
nice round of applause. Okay?
[Applause.]
Mr. Murphy. Senator, I know that we're pushing for time and
we've got a lot of people here that's going to be asking
questions and telling you what good things we're doing for
Standing Rock, so I'll turn the mike back to you.
STATEMENT OF HON. KENT CONRAD, U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH DAKOTA
Senator Conrad. Thank you very much, Chairman Murphy, and a
special thanks to the veterans and to the singers for a very
appropriate way to begin this hearing.
Let me just first indicate that this is an official hearing
by the Committee on Indian Affairs of the U.S. Senate, and,
therefore, we will follow the rules of the U.S. Senate in
conducting this hearing. Chairman Inouye, himself, has
authorized this hearing, and as the second-ranking member of
the committee, this is a special privilege for me to be here to
discuss legislation that is critically important to the tribe
and critically important to me.
I am very pleased to be here to discuss the funding
authorized under the Three Affiliated Tribes and Standing Rock
Sioux Tribe Equitable Compensation Act, more commonly called
the JTAC legislation.
People ask me all the time, what does JTAC stand for? It
stands for Joint Tribal Advisory Committee.
You'll recall back in the 1980's this committee was created
to determine what was owed to the tribes because of the
flooding of lands that belonged to the tribes, the Three
Affiliated Tribes and Standing Rock Tribe. There were promises
that were made that were never kept. There were valuable
resources of the tribes that were destroyed and that were not
properly compensated for. There were tremendous timberlands
that were destroyed from the flooding of the lands. There were
ranching and farming lands that were lost. And while they were
paid for at the time of the taking, the judgment was made that
they were not properly paid for. The compensation was not as
much as it should have been.
I was the principal sponsor of the JTAC legislation to try
to right this wrong that was done years ago. And in the
settlement that we were able to reach with our colleagues in
the United States Senate, this Tribe received over $90 million
that is held in a trust account. The interest from that account
is made available for expenditures to improve the economic
conditions of the people of this Tribe. That is the purpose for
the JTAC funding. It is to improve the economic lives and
restore the economic vitality of this community.
Now, we know $90 million, while it's a lot of money, is not
enough to do everything that needs to be done. There are many
things that should be done that are not being done. We know
that there are tremendous unmet needs. We can see it in this
school building that we're in. This school building is not what
it should be. Money should be spent here. The Federal
Government has an obligation here to provide a good place for
an education. And we know there are many other unmet needs. We
can see it in the housing and in the health care. We can see it
in the jobs or the insufficiency of the jobs that are available
in this community. Those are all unmet needs. And the JTAC
funding was intended to provide a down payment on meeting past
promises, promises that were not kept.
So this hearing is an attempt to find out what is happening
with those funds, the money that has been committed so far,
remembering that the $90 million of principal is in the Federal
treasury. It is only the interest from that money that is
available for the tribe.
I think many of us understand that when the Federal
Government flooded the lands of these reservations during
construction of the two mainstem dams on the upper Missouri,
that great injustices were done to the people of this Tribe and
to the people of the Three Affiliated Tribes.
When the Oahe Dam was constructed, 56,000 acres of private
land were lost and 190 tribal families were forced to relocate.
Ninety percent of the timbered area on the reservation was
demolished and thousands of acres of exceptional grazing and
rangeland were eliminated. Of the ranchers at Standing Rock, 60
percent saw their land disappear.
Those are the facts. Those are things that happened to
accommodate the flooding of the land to provide these mainstem
reservoirs. And JTAC is designed to go back and try to redress
some of the wrongs that were done at that time.
The Equitable Compensation Act was the result of
recommendations made by two reports. The first was entitled the
Final Report of the Garrison Unit Joint Tribal Advisory
Committee; therefore, JTAC, Joint Tribal Advisory Committee, a
special committee created by former Interior Secretary Donald
Hodel. The 1986 report acknowledged the Federal Government's
obligation to compensate the tribes.
The second report, which was conducted by the General
Accounting Office, analyzed the JTAC report and the methodology
used in developing it. The General Accounting Office concluded
the Tribe was owed between $64 million and $170 million. The
levels of compensation proposed in the JTAC bill fall within
that range, and we were able to secure $90.6 million for
Standing Rock.
I am proud, very proud, of the work we did in passing the
JTAC bill. It was the result of years, and I mean years, of
work and much negotiation. When we started this effort, I was
told by colleagues in the United States Senate there was no way
that we could possibly succeed. We were at meetings in which we
were told repeatedly that we would never get this kind of money
for the Standing Rock Reservation.
It was only when I came up with an idea of funding this
legislation outside of the Federal budget window, which was a
5-year period, and in a way that avoided the Appropriations
Committee entirely that we were able to succeed.
As the principal sponsor of the JTAC legislation, I am very
interested in ensuring that it produces long-term benefits to
the people of this reservation. The compensation legislation
was designed to allow the Standing Rock Tribe the opportunity
to rebuild and gain financial independence. It provides
resources for the general health and welfare of the Tribe and
its members, and by doing so it also adds important resources
to the North Dakota economy as a whole.
While it was not everything that we wanted, I will tell you
I didn't start by asking for $90 million. It was only when it
was clear that that's the most that we could get that I agreed
to that figure. It does have the potential to make a big
difference in the future of this tribe and its people.
The interest on the money in the Standing Rock Sioux
Equitable Compensation Fund became available for use on October
1, 1997. That's just over 4 years ago. I believe now is a good
time to take a look at how these funds are being used.
I want to first thank Chairman Murphy and his staff for
helping organize this hearing. I appreciate all that you have
done to accommodate the needs of the hearing, Chairman Murphy.
I would also like to thank Cora Jones, who is the Great
Plains Area Director of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, for
testifying here today. The United States Department of the
Interior is charged with approving the plan for the use of
these funds. That responsibility has been delegated to Ms.
Jones, so I believe her testimony is especially important today
in giving a complete picture of what has occurred.
Finally, I would like to remind everyone that this is a
public hearing. Although we only have time for a limited number
of witnesses, additional testimony can be submitted for the
hearing record up to 14 days following this hearing. Those who
would like to submit testimony for the record can do so by
sending it to my office no later than April 17.
Again, I want to thank all of you for being here today. I
look forward to your testimony and to the discussion that will
follow.
Our first panel will be Chairman Murphy of the Standing
Rock Sioux Tribe and Cora Jones, the Great Plains Regional
Director for the Bureau of Indian Affairs from Aberdeen, SD. I
thank you both for being here today. And we will then follow
with a second panel of four witnesses who have been selected
and recommended by members of the broader community to be the
official witnesses at this hearing.
After we have finished with the first two panels, we will
then open it for comments by people in the audience. At that
time you will be asked to identify yourself for the record and
we will take whatever comments that you would want to make at
that time.
Let me begin by welcoming Chairman Murphy to this hearing
and asking you to proceed with your testimony.
STATEMENT OF CHARLES W. MURPHY, CHAIRMAN, STANDING ROCK SIOUX
TRIBE
Mr. Murphy. Thank you, Senator. First of all, I want to
welcome you here again.
I want to thank you for allowing us to say a few words on
what has happened with the JTAC since we had received it, only
the interest. There is many things that we have done with our
money to make the improvements within the reservation. We have
built a school in Wakpala, helped build that school, because
one of the problems that we have been having in Wakpala with
your partner--Senator Tom Daschle was also down there visiting
that particular school at Wakpala. The school was in terrible
shape. Now the students are living and working in a nice
facility.
The other thing----
Senator Conrad. Is that on the South Dakota side?
Mr. Murphy. Yes; it is.
Senator Conrad. Can we get something on the North Dakota
side now?
Mr. Murphy. Well, I guess, Senator, we don't have that line
here. That's the reason why we have to work the whole
reservation. But those are some of the things that are
happening, Senator.
But the problem I have with this--with the hearing today,
is what I would like to see done is that the 20,000 acres that
belongs to us be returned to us, and that has not happened yet.
And my testimony has other things in there. We have helped
the colleges, and so forth, and we are doing a lot of good
things with it, but I have other people who are going to be
talking about that and it's also in Mr. McLaughlin's report,
also. What I would like to do is let my time go for other
people so they can give their testimony on the positive things
that are happening within the Standing Rock Reservation.
Senator Conrad. For the purposes of the record, Chairman
Murphy, let me just first enter your letter to me dated March
29 regarding the disposition of the funds. And I think it might
be useful before we go to Cora Jones' testimony for me to go
through the highlights of that so I understand as fully as we
can what the disposition of the funds has been thus far. And I
think that's important for the record.
Mr. Murphy. Okay.
[Referenced letter appears in appendix.]
Senator Conrad. First, I think we start with the total of
the funds that have been committed. I believe the total of
funds that have been committed is $46.3 million. Is that
correct?
Mr. Murphy. That's correct.
Senator Conrad. $46.3 million. And as I analyze what I see
in your letter to me on the disposition of those funds, it
indicates that there are still some $8 million of interest that
is available for expenditure at this point.
Mr. Murphy. That's correct.
Senator Conrad. Of the $46.3 million that has been
allocated, these are the categories that I draw from your
letter, and I would like if you could correct me if I am in
error on any of these amounts.
Mr. Murphy. Okay.
Senator Conrad. I see under the broad category of schools
$12 million that's been drawn down that is on deposit for
school construction and repair that has not yet been obligated.
It's been allocated for the purpose of schools, but it has not
yet been actually used. Is that correct?
Mr. Murphy. That's correct.
Senator Conrad. And those funds, what is the intention for
that $12 million with respect to schools?
Mr. Murphy. Some of it is with the colleges, Department of
College where we had committed x number of dollars for them to
do the college out here, and other needs--like this school here
also has some needs. Those are the things that we are talking
about, Senator.
Senator Conrad. Well, one thing I would very much like to
see is, I would like to see some of that money used for this
school. I think we all know this school was badly designed.
Mr. Murphy. That's correct.
Senator Conrad. And we have this open architecture and we
have a heating system that doesn't work for North Dakota
winters. I guess this school was designed by an architect from
the southwestern part of the United States; isn't that right?
Mr. Murphy. That's correct.
Senator Conrad. So hopefully some of those funds that are
on deposit now for schools, some of that money will be used
here. Is that the intention?
Mr. Murphy. That's correct.
Senator Conrad. In addition to the $12 million that's on
deposit for construction of additional schools in Standing Rock
and maintenance, there's an additional $4 million that has been
committed to Sitting Bull.
Mr. Murphy. That's correct.
Senator Conrad. Then there is the $4.3 million for Wakpala
which you mentioned in your opening testimony. And then there
is $500,000 that has been allocated to help tribal members
attend graduate school. Is that correct?
Mr. Murphy. That's correct.
Senator Conrad. Have all of those funds been used? The $4.3
million, has that been expended for the Wakpala School fully?
Mr. Murphy. Yes; it has.
Senator Conrad. All that money has been used. The $500,000
that was allocated to help people attend graduate school, has
all of that money been consumed?
Mr. Murphy. Yes; that has been used.
Senator Conrad. So that is gone. What amounts has that gone
to? How many students has that helped?
Mr. Murphy. I don't have the number right offhand, Senator,
but I could sure get you the number.
Senator Conrad. If you could give us the number of how many
students that's helped. Do you have a rough idea of how many
students that may have helped?
Mr. Murphy. I do not want to give a number because I would
have to--I would look the number up first.
Senator Conrad. If we could get the number. I think it's
important for the record how many students that's helped.
The $4 million for the Sitting Bull College, has any of
that money been used so far?
Mr. Murphy. The Sitting Bull College president will be up
here testifying and you can ask him that.
Senator Conrad. We can ask him that question. So there's
$12 million on deposit to help schools, $4 million for Sitting
Bull College, $4.3 million for Wakpala, $500,000 to help people
go to graduate school. That's a total of $20.8 million for
schools.
Then in the broader category of economic development
there's been $13 million provided to the districts. As I
understand it, each of the districts has received a million
dollars, although the Kenel District has received $6 million.
Is that correct?
Mr. Murphy. That's correct.
Senator Conrad. And what is the reason for the difference
between what the districts have individually received and the
Kenel District getting--is that because they have more
population?
Mr. Murphy. No; what has happened, Senator, it was given to
the Kenel District for a couple reasons. One was that they
moved from the bottom up to the top of where they are living
right now, which is approximately about 5 miles--4\1/2\ miles
south of old Kenel, and they were subsidized back in 1958, but
not really subsidized for what had happened. They lost more
homes and agriculture land, and so forth. And what has happened
then is that we gave Kenel District x number of dollars by the
recommendation of the Tribal Council.
Senator Conrad. And that was to compensate for what had
been taken?
Mr. Murphy. Correct.
Senator Conrad. Then under the broad category of--so in
terms of the districts, there's $13 million. So that gives us a
total so far of $33.8 million.
Mr. Murphy. Correct.
Senator Conrad. Then there are moneys that has been
allocated for land purchases.
Mr. Murphy. Correct.
Senator Conrad. As I see it, there's $12 million been
allocated for that purpose and $8.4 million of that used so
far. Is that correct?
Mr. Murphy. Just about that much, right.
Senator Conrad. So there is still some $3.6 million
available in that category?
Mr. Murphy. That's correct.
Senator Conrad. Of the $12 million for land purchases, in
one part of the letter it indicates that 30,000 acres has been
acquired. In another part of the paragraph it indicates some
60,000 acres has been acquired. For the record, can you clarify
that?
Mr. Murphy. Those are particular ranches that were
purchased in South Dakota and North Dakota.
Senator Conrad. And what is the total that has been
purchased so far? In one part of the letter it indicates 30,345
acres. In another part of the letter it says, thus far we have
purchased over 65,000 acres. It was just unclear to me. Is the
65,000 the total that's been purchased?
Mr. Murphy. That's what we have on hand. We purchased part
of the 65,000, but a lot of the applications that we have on
hand are not added up to that yet.
Senator Conrad. I see. So what's actually been purchased so
far is 30,000 acres?
Mr. Murphy. Correct.
Senator Conrad. But there are applications for an
additional 35,000?
Mr. Murphy. Right.
Senator Conrad. That would give a total of 65,000 if all of
that were done?
Mr. Murphy. Correct.
Senator Conrad. All right.
Mr. Murphy. But, Senator, some of the 60--the total of the
60,000 acres that we bought partials in, also, so we don't have
that completely purchased.
Senator Conrad. No; I understand. Only part of that has
been acquired.
Mr. Murphy. Correct.
Senator Conrad. But just so we make sure we are clear here,
the total purchases thus far would be the 30,000 acres?
Mr. Murphy. Correct.
Senator Conrad. And that's consumed $8.4 million?
Mr. Murphy. Correct.
Senator Conrad. All right. So that's roughly $280 an acre?
Mr. Murphy. Approximately that.
Senator Conrad. So that gives us a total of $45.8 million,
and then there's the category of EDF&I. Under the EDF&I fund
the Tribe has withdrawn $500,000 and established a business
equity loan committee to administer these funds; is that
correct?
Mr. Murphy. That is correct.
Senator Conrad. So that would add up to the total of $46.3
million.
Mr. Murphy. Correct.
Senator Conrad. Just to repeat, of the $46.3 million, $20.8
million reserved for schools, but it would appear to me that
most of that has not yet been expended.
Mr. Murphy. Correct.
Senator Conrad. There would be the $13 million that's gone
to the districts. Can you tell us the disposition of those
funds? Have the districts used those funds at this point?
Mr. Murphy. Some districts are. Some are still hanging onto
their money yet, until they bring a plan in showing us what
they are going to be doing.
Senator Conrad. So do we know how much of that $13 million
has been expended so far?
Mr. Murphy. Not at this time. I could check. I would have
to check with the finance office.
Senator Conrad. All right. And of the land purchases, $12
million, $8.4 million has been used of that $12 million. So a
substantial amount of the money has still not been actually
spent. It's on deposit for specific uses, but we have not yet
seen the full effect in the community. That would be fair to
say.
Mr. Murphy. Correct.
Senator Conrad. And of the EDF&I funds, the loan funds, as
I read this, about 400,000 is still available of that $500,000.
Mr. Murphy. That's correct.
Senator Conrad. $393,000 is still available. So as I total
it up here, a substantial amount of the money, $16 million
under the schools category, almost $4 million under the land
purchases, that's $20 million, plus the $8 million that's still
available to draw-down, plus some part of the district money
has not actually been spent yet. It's been allocated, you have
reserved it for certain purposes, it's not yet been spent.
Would that be a fair summation?
Mr. Murphy. That would be fair.
Senator Conrad. All right. I think that's important for the
record and for people to understand how these funds are being
allocated thus far. I think one thing that would be important
for the record is, what is the intention with respect to the
$12 million for schools? What are the specific projects that
that money has been reserved for?
Mr. Murphy. Some of them are for repairs. Some of them are
asking to add onto their school for larger classrooms, and so
forth. But, Senator, the problem is that we do not have all the
dollars to really meet the needs of our schools because we have
several schools on the North Dakota portion and we have several
schools on the South Dakota portion.
Senator Conrad. How many schools do you have that are being
supported by the Tribe? You have got this school, of course.
Mr. Murphy. Probably about 12 to 13 schools.
Senator Conrad. Probably 12 to 13 schools. So there's
obviously a tremendous need in that area.
Mr. Murphy. Correct.
Senator Conrad. All right. With that, why don't we turn to
Cora Jones for her testimony.
Mr. Murphy. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Conrad. Again, welcome. Thank you, Chairman Murphy,
for your testimony.
STATEMENT OF CORA JONES, ABERDEEN REGIONAL DIRECTOR, BUREAU OF
INDIAN AFFAIRS
Ms. Jones. Good morning, Senator.
Senator Conrad. Good morning.
Ms. Jones. Always a pleasure to see you and welcome to
Standing Rock. It's a nice place to come and visit.
Good morning, everyone, Mr. Chairman, members of the
committee. My name is Cora Jones and I am the Regional Director
for the Great Plains Region of the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
And I am pleased to be here today to discuss the Standing Rock
Sioux's economic recovery fund provisions within JTAC.
And the act, of course, which established the Economic
Recovery Act, the Bureau has been delegated that authority to
ensure that it is utilized the way the law states. And the
tribe is authorized to use the interest on the 90.6 million and
those purposes are for education, social welfare, economic
development, and other programs, subject to the approval of the
Secretary. And that would be the Secretary of the Interior, of
course.
In fiscal year 1998, the tribe could begin withdrawing the
accrued and annual interest subject to approval of the
Secretary. This, of course, was delegated down to my office.
On June 16, 2000 I did approve the Standing Rock Sioux
Tribes' Joint Tribal Advisory Committee Fund Access Plan. And
this plan, established in consultation with tribal members and
the BIA, outlines the tribe's proposed uses for the interest
generated from the principal amount in the fund. The tribe
submits requests for withdrawing funds to me through the
Standing Rock Agency. These requests are reviewed for
compliance with the act and consistency with the plan. When the
Bureau approves the request, we forward it on to the Special
Trustee's Office of the Trust Funds Management down in
Albuquerque, NM, where disbursement is made, and it is the
final processing and disbursement of the payment.
And thus far the tribe has requested and received six
payments totaling the $46.3 million in interest. And any
funding request outside the plan, of course, will have to be
approved. And that concludes my prepared statement, sir.
[Prepared statement of Ms. Jones appears in appendix.]
Senator Conrad. So let me go over with you, if I can, Ms.
Jones, the distribution of these funds. You have heard the
outline that I provided based on Chairman Murphy's provision of
the letter to me. Do you disagree with any of the allocations
that I outlined in the questions to Chairman Murphy?
Ms. Jones. No; and, Senator Conrad, I did bring copies of
the 1034's showing what the tribe did draw-down, and I would be
happy to submit that to you.
Senator Conrad. I would appreciate that for the record. Can
I go over these matters where money has been allocated and ask
you for what your understanding is of the uses of those funds.
The $6 million that was the first amount of money that you
approved, that was for land purchases; is that correct?
Ms. Jones. Yes.
Senator Conrad. Then subsequently there was another $6
million that was allocated for that purpose?
Ms. Jones. Yes.
Senator Conrad. And is it your understanding that some $8.4
million of that has been used so far for that purpose?
Ms. Jones. That's correct.
Senator Conrad. When you allocate money, when you allow a
draw-down, is it an open-ended circumstance with respect to
land purchases, or is it tied to specific land purchases that
are to be made?
Ms. Jones. Primarily it's open. The tribe generally will
have--they will have a list of land that they do want to
purchase, but we never know for sure what is going to be
purchased because there is negotiations that need to take place
and it's a lengthy process. And as you well know, we have an
inherited interest, a fractionated interest in this region that
is worse than anyplace in the country. And so when the tribe
decided to go this route, I really applauded their efforts
because it helps to solidify that land base that is so sorely
needed.
Senator Conrad. And what is your understanding of how much
land would be purchased with that $12 million that's been
allocated for that purpose?
Ms. Jones. Right offhand, I don't know.
Senator Conrad. Could you get that for the purposes of the
record?
Ms. Jones. Yes.
Senator Conrad. And of the requests for draw-down that have
been made, I would like to know, what is the amount of land
that you anticipate being purchased with that amount of money?
Let me go to the amount of money for schools. Chairman Murphy
indicated in his testimony the money for the Wakpala School,
that's $4.3 million, that was approved by you as part of an
overall plan--is there an overall plan that is in place?
Ms. Jones. Yes; there is.
Senator Conrad. From the tribe?
Ms. Jones. Yes.
Senator Conrad. And these amounts of money are in line with
what is part of this overall plan; is that correct?
Ms. Jones. Yes; they are.
Senator Conrad. And so the $4.3 million for the Wakpala
School, that was part of an approved plan?
Ms. Jones. Yes.
Senator Conrad. And the $4 million for the Sitting Bull
College, that has also been drawn down?
Ms. Jones. Yes.
Senator Conrad. To your understanding, has that money been
used?
Ms. Jones. With the Sitting Bull College, I don't know.
Senator Conrad. We will get the testimony of the president
because he will be testifying in the next panel. Then there has
been $12 million drawn down that is on deposit for school
needs, for school construction and maintenance purposes. We
have heard the chairman's testimony on that. And you approved
that draw-down. Did you approve that in light of a specific
plan for the use of that money?
Ms. Jones. It was a general plan.
Senator Conrad. And how general are we talking about?
Ms. Jones. I would have to go back and look at it
specifically in order to answer that, but when--I guess we are
all so firmly aware of the needs, the needed needs for
resources that exist at these schools, I don't have specifics
as to, what they are going to be doing in the school, whether
it's rebuilding a theater, putting up walls where the open
classrooms used to be. I honestly don't have that. But, you
know, we do have an education line officer here at Standing
Rock and she should be watching over that very carefully to
make sure that the students here receive the best possible
education and in the safest and best environment possible.
Senator Conrad. Let me just say that this concerns me. It
seems to me that if there is a plan, before money is released
that the specifics of how that money is going to be used should
be required by your office. You should know. I mean, if I were
in your position, I would want to know what I am releasing the
money for. And I think it should be specific, what school, what
projects, because I don't know how you can know at the end of
this process whether or not the plan has been followed if there
aren't specifics attached to the release of funds.
Ms. Jones. I firmly understand your concern with that. My
problem is sometimes I get caught up in a Catch-22, and that
is, you know, how far do we go in overseeing the tribe's
responsibilities? Do we micromanage them, or do we allow them
to go with self-determination, do exactly what they know is
right--for the best--in the best interest of the tribal
membership?
Senator Conrad. I am going to say--I would give my answer
to that. My answer would be the tribe, this is their money,
it's their responsibility to spend it, but you have got an
oversight responsibility.
Ms. Jones. Yes; I do.
Senator Conrad. And it's very clear in the law, very clear.
And I believe there should be accountability. I really do
believe that. I mean, I think it is very, very important that
if there is--this is money that comes from the Federal treasury
to right a wrong that's been done and there is very clear
responsibility. You have responsibility. I have responsibility.
The chairman has responsibility. And I believe before funds are
released, it should be the tribe's plan. They are in the best
position to make a determination how that money is needed,
absolutely, but before you release the money, you should know
where it's going.
Ms. Jones. Yes; we do receive the 1034. That's the draw-
down document that's needed in order to release the money. We
receive a resolution from the tribe saying what that money is
going to be used for. And we do review it to see whether it's
in accordance with the plan.
Senator Conrad. What I am hearing, I am hearing two
different things. I am hearing, on the one hand, there is a
plan, but then when I probe for how that money is specifically
going to be used, that plan seems to be very amorphous, it
seems to be very general. It isn't specific about what school,
what project. Am I right?
Ms. Jones. Yes.
Senator Conrad. Well, I just say it seems to me this thing
needs to be changed so that when money is requested from you--a
plan doesn't mean anything unless it's got specifics attached
to it. I don't know what it means when somebody asks for $12
million for schools and I don't know what school, what project,
is it going to go to dealing with the heating system in this
school, is it going to go to having individual classrooms in
this school instead of this open architecture where you can
hear the class next-door so you can't hear yourself think?
And, absolutely, that plan should be the tribe's
determination. The tribe is in the best position to determine
what the priorities are, how the money should be used. That's
self-determination. Absolutely. I do say this. I think it is
very important that before money is released after the tribe
makes a request, that it's got to be sufficiently detailed that
you know where the money is actually going.
Ms. Jones. Within the tribe's resolutions, it states where
they are going to be using that money.
Senator Conrad. In what detail? Can you read to me----
Ms. Jones. Well, right here, It has therefore been resolved
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe hereby approves to assist the Wakpala
District for a new school facility in the amount of $4,300,000
with revenues from JTAC. And previous to that, one of the
``whereases'' was to upgrade the school facilities in order to
provide the children with quality education. Another whereas,
to assist the Wakpala District for a new school facility. You
know, and knowing how much various facilities cost across this
region, the 4.3 to me was a number that seemed adequate.
Senator Conrad. I just say to you, that to me--that to me
would not be adequate to release money. It really would not. I
would expect if--and I'm all for what you did in Wakpala. Don't
misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not being critical of your
request for the money.
But I would say to Ms. Jones, I believe it is your
responsibility to have sufficient detail attached to those
requests that you could tell me exactly where that money is
going. And this $12 million is in an account, as I understand
it, for schools. What is the level of detail that has been
provided to you as to how that $12 million will be used?
Ms. Jones. I would have to defer to--I have got my tribal
governments officer here.
Senator Conrad. Why don't we have that person come up.
Ms. Jones. And I would like to have Dean Webb come up.
Senator Conrad. That's fine.
Ms. Jones. He makes sure the payments get made. If they
would come up.
Senator Conrad. Let's have those people come up, because
before we leave here, I want to know what that $12 million
that's in an account is going to go for.
Ms. Jones. Senator, I would like to introduce Earl Azure.
He is the tribal governments officer.
Senator Conrad. If you could spell your name for the
stenographer so we have it for the record.
Mr. Azure. Last name is spelled A-z-u-r-e.
Senator Conrad. Welcome Mr. Azure. Good to have you here.
Mr. Azure. Thank you.
Senator Conrad. And who is the other gentleman with us?
Ms. Jones. Dean Webb.
Mr. Webb. My name is Dean Webb and I am the financial trust
services officer for the Office of Trust Funds Management in
Aberdeen.
Senator Conrad. Okay. The question that I have is, and I
would pose it to you with respect to both the money that's on
deposit, the $12 million that, as I read it, has been withdrawn
to assist in the construction and repair of additional schools,
what level of detail do you know what that money will be used
for? Do you know what schools it will be used for? Do you know
what specific projects?
Mr. Azure. Other than what was in the resolutions initially
requesting the dollars, we don't have any more specifics beyond
that, Senator.
Senator Conrad. Well, I just say this to you, I don't think
that's adequate. I really don't think that's adequate. I think
you should ask for the specifics of how that money is going to
be used. You are releasing money here, you are in a fiduciary--
you have got a fiduciary responsibility. And, absolutely, it
should be the tribe's determination as to what the money should
be requested for, how that money should be used, but you have
got a responsibility before you release it to know where it is
going.
What's wrong with what I am saying? Why aren't you doing it
that way?
Mr. Azure. I believe the--personally, I believe the
legislation is written in such a way that it provides as much
freedom as possible to the tribe to establish, as you
indicated, what direction or what purpose these moneys will be
used for in basically four broad categories, and, of course,
their plan is written in such a way reflecting the broad nature
of the legislation, itself.
Senator Conrad. Well, I wrote the legislation, and I can
tell you it was never my intention, never, that money would be
released just based on a resolution saying it's going to be
used for--the whole reason that we put a reporting requirement
in and an oversight responsibility in was so that somebody
would be in a position to be held accountable for the use of
these funds so that when the tribe made a request, that
somebody else would look over it and know what the specific
purposes of the request were. I am saying that to you today. I
think it is absolutely the responsibility. Frankly, the
responsibility was given to the Secretary of the Interior.
That's who was given the responsibility. Now, he has delegated
that down the chain. I don't quarrel with that.
But, I mean, if somebody read that legislation carefully,
there was a reason this was done this way. And it was so that
when people would go back, there would be no question as to how
that money was used. And that is critically important to the
credibility of this whole undertaking.
So I say to you today, I hope that in the future, and I
expect in the future, before money is released that it will be
released in reaction to a specific plan, not just some broad
category. That's not good enough. You should know if there is
$12 million that's on deposit for schools, what schools are
going to get fixed, what construction projects are going to be
financed, what are the amounts, what are the things that are
going to be done.
Mr. Webb, what is your responsibility in this area?
Mr. Webb. My responsibility is to make sure that all the
documents are in place, tribal resolutions, signatures, and so
forth, on the 1034's. I send them to our processing unit in
Albuquerque for payment of the money and follow through to make
sure that the funds are disbursed correctly.
Senator Conrad. Is there any requirement once the money has
been released as to when it is expended?
Mr. Webb. No.
Senator Conrad. So the money that's been drawn down that's
on deposit to do construction on schools, that could be on
deposit for 5 years?
Mr. Webb. Yes; it probably could be, if it's construction
of facilities.
Senator Conrad. Well, again, I tell you, I just don't think
that in any way is in keeping with the intent of the
legislation. The intent of this legislation is that the tribe
make the determination as to its needs and how best to use its
money. After all, this is the Tribe's money now. It's held in a
Federal account, but it is the Tribe's money. But before that
money is released, I think you have got an absolute obligation,
absolute obligation to know where it is going, and not in just
some general category. That in no way I think meets the
responsibility that you have.
All right. Let's go to our next panel. Before we leave
this, I would ask you this: I am going to take back to my
colleagues what's happening here. I can tell you they are not
going to be satisfied with this. This was not the intent. And I
want to hear from you within 30 days as to how you are going to
alter how you do this so that you know before money is released
what this money is going for in specific detail. It is not your
judgment what they request. That would be micromanagement. That
would be a violation of self-determination. But you have got an
obligation to protect the taxpayers. You have got an obligation
to protect the tribal members that the money is going for the
purposes intended. And that's just--good fences make good
neighbors. It has nothing to do with the comment on what the
Tribe is doing. That's just good management. And I believe you
have got an affirmative obligation.
And I am not--I want to make clear, I am not finding fault
with the tribe. They're going with the plan that is in place
apparently, but I must say that it's troubling to me that money
is being released without very specific and clear plans as to
how it's going to be used.
Ms. Jones. Senator, I would like to say that we did depend
on what the tribe sent in, the general plan, and then we
utilized the resolution as to specifics, and that's what we
tried to work with. However, I will be happy to ensure that
that plan is to you within 30 days. And maybe we had a
misunderstanding of what our responsibility was in this because
we thought that that money, once it came to the Tribe, it was
the tribe's money, and so maybe we had a disconnect there, and
I can assure you from this point on that it will not happen
again.
Senator Conrad. Well, I think that's very important. There
is a disconnect because it is the tribe's money, but there is
also very, very clear responsibility on the part of the
Secretary of the Interior to ensure that the money is used for
the purposes intended. And the only way that can happen is if
you have the specifics of how the money is going to be used.
And to me it's not there with what I have heard here this
morning. Thank you. And I will expect to hear from you within
30 days on how that plan is up. I hope you will work with the
tribe as to devising that reporting method so we don't have
unintended consequences on that side of the ledger.
Ms. Jones. Yes, sir; and, you know, we did have--we
followed all the way up to Washington, we had our solicitors
look at it in Washington, DC.
Senator Conrad. Is the solicitor a lawyer?
Ms. Jones. Yes.
Senator Conrad. There is the problem. We need somebody just
with some commonsense.
Ms. Jones. They did approve of the procedures that we had
in place.
Senator Conrad. Yes; I know. But I will tell you honestly,
this would never satisfy my colleagues and it doesn't satisfy
me and I don't think it would satisfy--just think about it.
There has got to be sufficient detail so people know where the
money is going. Okay. Thank you.
And we will call the second panel. And I thank you very
much. The second panel is Mary Louise Defender Wilson, Robert
McLaughlin, Dave Archambault, and Ron McNeil. If you could all
come to the witness table, I would appreciate it, and we will
go in order that was determined by the notice for the hearing.
Mary Louise Defender Wilson will be the first witness on the
second panel followed by Mr. McLaughlin, Mr. Archambault, and
Ron McNeil.
Dave, before I pronounce your name, or perhaps mispronounce
it again, am I pronouncing it correctly?
Mr. Archambault. Archambault.
Senator Conrad. Archambault. I have been pronouncing it for
years, but maybe I have been pronouncing it wrong for years.
Mr. Archambault. You have done good.
Senator Conrad. Welcome. Thanks to all of you for being
here to testify in what I think is a very important hearing.
And we will start with you, Mary Louise. Thank you for being
here and please proceed with your testimony.
STATEMENT OF MARY LOUISE DEFENDER WILSON
Ms. Defender Wilson. Thank you very much, Senator Conrad
and Miss Gross, for coming to Standing Rock Reservation to
listen to what the people have to say.
At the beginning, I would like to say this to you, Senator
Conrad, that, you know, we come from this sparsely populated
area of the country, North Dakota, and you don't know how good
it makes me feel when I see you on TV on CNN and talking to all
these national, international issues with such ability and such
wisdom that I just want to share that with you. It also does
the same when I see your other two colleagues, Senators Dorgan
and Daschle, on TV, because that really is good to see and we
are really, really proud of you, at least I am, and I know a
lot of other people are, too.
Senator Conrad. Thank you.
Ms. Defender Wilson. Thank you very much. I will not read
my entire statement because I know some of you have things that
you want to say that are very important and are probably more
to the issue what Senator Conrad is trying to find out today.
But I am back to my original concern, and that is justice
for the 190 homeowners and landowners who lost land at the time
of the original construction of the Oahe Dam. You know, our
people were living the American dream at that time. Owning a
home, having a small piece of land is something many people of
this country would probably kill for. I hate to use that word
because we have so much concern about terrorism today, but
really they would, and they would lie, cheat and steal to have
that in their possession.
Yet many of you who are sitting here in this audience came
from that kind of a family, a family who lived in their own
home, lived on their own piece of land, and you lost that. And
to me that was a terrible tragedy that has not yet been
addressed. You know, there was never an opportunity for you,
the descendants now. There are some of the original people who
lost their land. I see Vernon Iron Cloud who lost his land and
his home to that in the audience. There was never that
opportunity for you to purchase land again and also to live in
your own homes for many of you.
When I was going to make the statement, I talked to some
people--not enough of them, but some people and I focused on
one community which was located south of Cannon Ball. Now, we
can look at every area along the Missouri River on Standing
Rock and we will find similar communities which existed. They
weren't part of the organized district, but they were areas
where people who were related by blood when they came to the
reservation. You know, we have this word in our language,
tiyospye wicozani, people who are of the same group, people who
are related by blood, they live together.
And I was talking to one of our knowledgeable elders, Alma
Ramsey Mentz, who is also in the audience, and she grew up in
this Big Lake area and she told me who lived in that Big Lake
community starting at the south end and going north, and I can
look at that immediately and see that some of these people were
related by blood. They came from east of the Missouri River and
they were related to the great chief named Nasuna Tanka. That's
been mistranslated to Big Head. Nasuna Tanka is a person with a
big brain because Nasuna Tanka evidently had wisdom. But you
find several families there who are direct descendants and they
were all living there together. They all had to move out of
that area.
And if you look at the list attached to my statement, only
Harry Fast Horse was able to buy just a few acres to replace
what he lost. I think it was six acres that he was allowed to
buy.
Now, section 5, you know, of the original Oahe Act set
aside moneys to help improve the economic and social conditions
of tribal members and also that there was a land purchase
program set up which was supposed to help some of these people,
but that did not happen. And as I said, Big Lake is only one of
the many others where the people lost everything that they held
near and dear. We have Black Foot Bottom, we have all kinds of
communities named on the reservation. Yet that is what
happened.
Now, when this Equitable Compensation Act was passed in
1992, the people knew that the law was enacted because of the
devastation they suffered when the Oahe Dam was constructed.
And those people were anticipating that there would be some
economic recovery for them from this interest money. And I
think that the people on this reservation were aware of that.
They knew that the people who lost were looking for something.
This Tribal Economic Recovery Fund Committee, which is
called TERF, they considered that there would be compensation
to the home and landowners, but somehow this whole thing got
mixed up. It got mixed up with per capita payment. I don't know
how that happened and I don't know what kind of--I did not see
the original letter that you wrote, Senator Conrad, about that
matter. It was told to me by Bob McLaughlin that there was a
letter to that effect that you couldn't deal with these
original landowners and homeowners who lost. So every time the
homeowners and the landowners ask about compensation, they're
always, you know, faced with, well, Senator Conrad said. Now, I
don't know what that letter said. We have to trust each other,
and I trust Bob McLaughlin that there was such a letter that
said that they could not consider the people who lost their
land.
The other thing we have to consider is, we have to help our
younger people on this reservation who do not know what it is
like to have been born and live in your own home, on your own
land, and they have not grown up in homes owned by their
parents or on estates held by their families since the original
allotment made in the early 1900's.
Now, some of these are saying that the landowners should
have a business plan and not expect to just buy more land and
lease it out and collect rents. And I think we all know that
the most influential white people of this country hold
properties and lands and collect the rents. And many
inherited--many of those white people inherited those estates
from their own families.
Now, why can't our Native Indian people, again, have this
right to hold property and to collect the rents because they
have lost that, and I was very happy to see the words used
about, you know, economic vitality and economic--you know, to
improve the economic lives. I think that is one thing that
would.
Now, there is a lot of things I could say because I lived
on this reservation until 1955. I heard all of the original
discussions about the Oahe Dam and Reservoir. But I returned in
1976, then I realized that for all the hell our people went
through during that time, they were not compensated to the
fullest to help them heal. So this is why when these hearings
were held on this law--we're talking about Public Law 102-575,
my adopted son, Dr. James Fenelon, and myself worked presented
it at the hearings, and we did that as volunteers, used our own
funds because we believed so strongly that the devastation was
not only economic, but they were something that went to the
very soul and spirit of our people, so this is why we did that.
And in closing, I would like to just say this, that the
United States should decide how it wants to perceive us as
people. A long time ago when we were in charge, when we were
truly sovereign, the land was all held in common; but in 1989
the land was divided and allotted to individuals, and the
people adjusted to that big change, and they put aside all of
their laws and customs and practices and traditions about
communal landownership and we forgot them. So now we rely on
the BIA to manage our individual lands, and the tribal council
I think has one heck of a job trying to cope with managing the
tribal lands. And now then, all of a sudden we are faced with
another matter. I don't think that the United States wants to
see us anymore as individual people. So we have to think about
who are we really, then we have to think about what do we do
and why has the United States changed its policy at this time?
And how are we going to protect ourselves, our personal rights
and our property rights?
And I want to thank you very much for allowing me to make
this statement.
[Prepared statement of Ms. Defender Wilson appears in
appendix]
Senator Conrad. Thank you very much.
Mr. McLaughlin.
STATEMENT OF ROBERT McLAUGHLIN
Mr. Robert McLaughlin. I wish to thank the committee for
allowing me to testify here this morning on this very important
issue, the Tribal Economic Recovery Fund.
I drafted the original report for the tribe, the Economic
Loss Report, that was reviewed by the JTAC Committee in 1986
and then by the GAO.
I was very impressed in your history, Senator. You have a
grasp of what went on during that process, and I think it's a
good one. As you know, the resources loss, the wildlife
resources, the natural resources, the agricultural resources
that were lost comprise the basis for the argument that I
developed for the additional economic compensation that
Congress provided in 1992. So I was going to comment on that,
but I can move right along because we are running late.
What I would like to do, the tribe has engaged me to look
at several areas in the JTAC fund, primarily in the area of
economic development, and I would like to address those this
morning.
The first one is the Standing Rock Business Equity Loan
Fund which you mentioned earlier. The tribe contracted with me
in 2001 to develop the policies and procedures, and I am going
to comment here that I think that these funds should all have
policies and procedures. I think it's very important that
regulations and policies and procedures be drawn up so that it
reduces the tendency to misuse the funds for other purposes.
And we did that with the equity fund, and it was modeled
after the highly successful Indian Business Development Grant
Program, and I'm not so sure you are familiar with it, but in
1992 I did a study that analyzed all the investments made under
that BIA program in the Aberdeen Area Office and the BIA, which
I consider to be the best economic program in the history of
the BIA, and they had practically a 90 percent success rate for
investments. That is just unheard of in Indian country.
Senator Conrad. What was the name of that?
Mr. Robert McLaughlin. The Indian Business Development
Grant Program. That was put in place in the late 1970's by the
BIA. And what it did, it provided much needed equity finance to
Indian entrepreneurs coupled with debt finance that would be
provided by outside financial institutions, or if the tribe had
a financial institution, it could be provided by the tribal
financial institution, and that put discipline into the due
diligence process for investment. And that's why I think it was
real successful, because the entrepreneurs knew they had to
perform, they had to be real Indian businessmen, and they
approached the process with a great deal of concern about their
future and they succeeded, and that's why it had a 90 percent
success ratio.
We modeled the tribe's economic program after that
successful BIA program. And we just--the tribe just started
this up and they hired me to draft the policies and procedures,
which I have to say I borrowed heavily from the BIA's policies
and procedures because they're really excellent policies and
procedures.
We did make a couple changes there, and that was to include
a micro program for equity along with the regular business
program that could finance projects up to $250,000. The
gentleman's--on my right--son was the first applicant, David
Archambault, and he bought a convenience store and he just
started business now. We have four or five other applicants now
that are in the process. I think this one is going to require a
lot more financing from the tribe. It will generate economic
development here in the future.
Senator Conrad. Can I just interrupt you on that point?
Mr. Robert McLaughlin. Yes.
Senator Conrad. I think this is a very, very important
point. I look at where the commitments have been made. Land
purchases, yes, that certainly is worthy; schools, I think we
all agree that is very, very critical to the community; the
money to the districts. I would hope that some of that money
that has gone to the districts would be used for the purpose
that you have just outlined.
I have to tell you, and I think you know this, Bob, the
vision behind this legislation was that this would be an engine
to revitalize the economy of this area. It was really not
designed for per capita payments. In fact, they are
specifically excluded.
I want people to know here how we got this money. I was
told when I started down this path there was no way we would
get this money. You will remember that was the time of
tremendous budget deficits. There were no new programs. There
were no new programs being started. So for me to go to my
colleagues and ask for $250 million for North Dakota, they
thought I had taken leave of my senses. But I knew that this
money was owed here. The people were owed this money.
And the whole idea was that this money--the agreement that
we made with our colleagues to get the money was that none of
the money would go for per capita payments, because when you do
that, the money is here, it's gone and the economy is not
strengthened; but that the money would go to things that would
have a longer-term impact, to improve the schools, to get
people an education and to help people go to college, to help
people go to community schools, to help people start a
business. That's really what it was, so that more people would
get jobs, so that there would be more jobs in the community.
And certainly buying land, that meets the purpose of the act.
To rebuild the land base of the tribe, certainly that is a good
thing.
But I have to tell you I thought much more of the money
would go for the purpose that you are talking about now. I say
that with respect and with hope that in the future more money
will go for this purpose because I, too, believe it can make a
tremendous transformational difference in the future of this
community. So I wanted to lay that out.
And, Bob, I respect the work that you do, and I can tell
you we would never have been successful in getting this money
without the work that you had done on what was lost to this
community. That work was essential in the case I made to my
colleagues as to why we should get this money.
Mr. Robert McLaughlin. Thank you, Senator. The fund is also
doing something that I think is pretty exciting with the help--
the potential help of the United States, and that is to set up
a national bank here. The equity committee applied, with
Standing Rock endorsement, to the Treasury Department to seek
technical assistance to establish a national bank. What that
would do, of course, is permit a depository institution to
operate here in Indian country that has long needed that kind
of institution.
Previously I have advocated for the development finance to
come before the bank, but the demand has grown so absolutely
for a commercial financial institution because of the
population growth and the growth now of cash and the need for
depositing and the need for investment that the committee
decided to move forward. And that application is underway.
Hopefully, the tribe will be considered favorably for that.
The bank would not get started immediately, of course,
because it would have to be designed and then it would have to
go through Office of the Comptroller of the Currancy [OCC]
approval, and that would take several years, but it would
require a substantial contribution and equity from the Tribe
that would be matched by the Treasury Department. Once it got
started, it would probably have around $21 million in assets,
be a substantial institution, I think given the market
conditions out here, would grow very rapidly.
The third area, and this is important--I am glad to see
there is a representative from the Bureau's Office of Trust
Fund Management here, is that the tribe has this endowment
that's being managed by the Government, and I understand
talking with the Office Trust Fund personnel in Albuquerque,
that it's pretty much going to stay there. It is a secretarial
fund set up by the Congress, by the Senate and the House and
made into law. Therefore, I think it's really important that
the tribe request the committee that adequate investment
mechanisms be applied here, and I'm talking about direct asset
management.
I would like to talk about a trust fund that we had managed
by the Government since 1959. This fund has declined enormously
in real value. It started out as about a $1.5 million fund and
today it's only worth 17 percent of that amount of money. And
the reason being that this decline has taken place is that the
Government mandates that the OTFM only invest in fixed-income
securities, and if you know what that does to a portfolio, it
will erode it over time.
South Dakota had one just like that and they made a
constitutional provision just last year that prevented that
fund from disappearing. Our education fund under those same
type of restrictions will disappear. And although we had a
pretty good couple years because of the decline in the
marketplace with regard to equities and the improvement in bond
returns.
And I think the Office of Trust Fund Management is doing a
fairly reasonable job because our fund is a little different
from other funds in that they can invest in overnight
treasuries and they can invest in agency securities, so there
is a little bit higher rate of return.
But this JTAC fund is heading for the same fate as our
education fund. So we need to manage this like the State of
South Dakota, the State of North Dakota, which does a
tremendously good job in talking with Steve Cochran over at the
securities office here. We need to manage this fund so we can
at least grow at about 4 or 5 percent above the rate of
inflation so that we can have a distribution, and then in our
fund allocation that the tribe passed, the distribution plan is
also to provide for growing of funds, so in the future it will
really be worth maybe $180 million instead of $90 million.
That's what's happened with the State of North Dakota
investment fund. So we should be able to at least do that well.
So I am going to recommend to the tribe that they talk to you
to advance that in the future.
The last--and this answers one of your questions. The last
area that I want to address here is the Fort Yates local
district, and they have taken it upon themselves, Terry Yellow
Fat, the planning commission there, to advocate for a
development finance institution, which I think would work
really nicely with the equity fund. But it would be a finance
company. It would have to be carefully managed, of course. It
would have to do some hedging, which we're all worried about
these days, you know, the risk management. I think they can
pull it off, and that would greatly add to the economic
development of the Tribe, plus it would be able to use and
leverage outside capital.
So that, Senator, concludes my comments this morning. I
have given you a very lengthy written testimony which I hope
you put in the record.
[Prepared statement of Robert McLaughlin appears in
appendix.]
Senator Conrad. I will put it in the record. Let me just
say that I think one of the things we might need to think about
is, and this would have to be thought through very carefully,
but I think we should consider taking the income stream that
comes from the JTAC fund and using that money to float a bond
and get that money--we could then get in one lump sum probably
$50 million, $60 million, and then invest that money in higher
rate-of-return assets. You know what I'm saying?
Mr. Robert McLaughlin. Yes.
Senator Conrad. It may be the only opportunity we have to
prevent the diminishment of this fund in real terms over time,
because right now we are in a circumstance in which we are
locked into Government securities. That is in effect the
investment income that flows from the $90 million. The only way
that I know of that we could escape that fate is to take the
income stream from this trust fund account and float a bond,
sell bonds to the investment community backed up by that stream
of income and get a pool of money, and it would probably be in
the range of $60 million, that could then be invested in higher
rate-of-return assets. I think we have got to very carefully
consider that.
Mr. Robert McLaughlin. Senator, I really urge--I think
these are the recommendations that we will be bringing to you.
We must do something or this fund will go away in 20 years.
Senator Conrad. That's why I think we need to think very
carefully. One of the reasons I wanted to come here today is to
get us thinking about the various options we have. And that's
one that's got to be very closely and carefully considered.
Mr. Robert McLaughlin. I will take that up with--the tribe
just recently established an investment committee. I will take
that up right away, Senator, with the committee.
Senator Conrad. I would appreciate that.
Mr. Archambault.
STATEMENT OF DAVE ARCHAMBAULT
Mr. Archambault. Good morning, Senator.
Senator Conrad. Good morning, Dave.
Mr. Archambault. I want to thank whoever it was that
allowed me some time to speak. I would like to say that I am
probably going to say a lot of the same things that Bob did,
Mr. McLaughlin here, because I think that's kind of the way it
goes, but I'm probably going to say it in a little different
way--or a whole lot different way.
And I am real happy to see that we have students every now
and then drifting in and sitting down seeing this hearing. I
think it's a real--could be a real learning experience. But I
guess this message that I have is maybe as much for them as for
the people sitting here, and I think we have KLND, also, as
well, that it's on air, and I think my message is bent toward
that, as well as toward the hearing.
As you may recall, Senator, I drafted the first overall
plan for use of JTAC funding in 1993. At the time I was
president of Sitting Bull College and later was a tribal
councilman, and I did submit a copy for your review. Recently I
have been assisting in the effort to put together an oversight
office for an administrative structure to handle the day-to-day
affairs of the JTAC funding.
Senator I do have definite ideas that I envision for the
use of JTAC interest earnings and I wish to convey this message
to you and everyone listening.
I would like to start by telling a story that was told to
several of us on the Pine Ridge Reservation in the 1960's. The
story was told by Edward Iron Cloud, who was born on the
Standing Rock Sioux Reservation, but believe it or not, he was
born on the Cannonball River before there ever was a
reservation. Edward was 97 years old when he died. I am told he
was both Oglala and Hunkpapa Lakota. What I read next is a
Lakota story about starvation.
There is a Lakota story about a village that was starving.
This occurrence was not uncommon to the Great Sioux Nation or
to any other people of the world. In this one particular story,
the people were experiencing an unusually hard winter, the snow
was deep and recently a storm had raged for almost 1 week. The
village had consumed almost all their food. Everyone was very
weak from hunger. The situation was so bad that death songs
could be heard now and then.
The headmen and some of the elders that could make it met
to discuss what should be done. We had to get what food that is
left and feed the sick and dying, is what some were saying. We
need to see that at least the children and the elderly are fed
was said by others. It was a very difficult meeting because
everyone was personally experiencing misery within their own
family lodges.
One of the older men in the group gestured for his request
to speak. When it was his turn, he started out by saying, my
wife and I were lying under our robes this morning talking. We
heard the people suffering, my daughter's baby cried all night.
Everyone here is being pressed to help the needy right away.
The hunger is causing us to think selfishly and behave ugly to
one another. We are not thinking clearly. He looked around at
everyone seated there and asked, who is the most needy? There
was a long pause and then he went on, this morning my wife
said, our problem is strength. We need strength if we are to
survive. If we don't have food soon, we will lose all our
strength and we will waste away.
Everyone shook their head in agreement, then he went on,
should we be arguing over who is most deserving of the food, or
should we be thinking about what is best for our people
tomorrow and the days after that? He paused for a long while
and said, I know it is hard and some would think that it is
cruel for me to say this, but my suggestion at this time--
important time is to gather all the food we can and give it to
our best hunters, feed them good, pray with them and then send
them out with all of the provisions that we can gather.
He waited, not sure of the reaction, then went on, we all
know it's very hard to move in the deep snow. It takes a lot of
strength. We also know if the hunters we send out are
successful, they will need twice as much strength to bring the
food back. Right now our people see no tomorrow, only pain. We
have to give the village something to hope for.
When he was done speaking, the leaders left and immediately
started asking everybody in the village for what food they had
left.
This again was told by Edward Iron Cloud. He was born in
about 1876 and he passed away in approximately 1973.
Senator today the people of Standing Rock Sioux Tribe are
looking at another survival issue just as the people did in
this story. Although the people are not starving, our people
are in a bad way. The difference is the timeframe has been
moved forward 150 years.
Today the people and the leaders are arguing about JTAC.
JTAC is like the food that is talked about in the story. Many
people want the food and money right away to fix hunger or
problems of their own communities. The question is, who is most
deserving when everyone is in need? Which lodge or community
should get more?
But what of tomorrow? JTAC should be looked at as the food
and strength for a better tomorrow. Use JTAC for present-day
needs and satisfaction, and tomorrow the same problems of
poverty and turmoil will be knocking on the door again.
I believe JTAC presents the opportunity to invest in our
own strongest asset, which I believe is our own human or tribal
ingenuity. Like in the story where the people put their faith
and hope in the hunters, I believe the way to overcome the
terrible social ills that threaten our culture is to invest in
our own people. Of course, today is somewhat different, so
today we need a new kind of hunter. I believe that if we ask
our people to come forward with ideas and plans that focus on
future economic recovery, our tribal members will come forward
and they will effect positive change in this place we call
home.
As an example of how we can invest in our own human natural
resource, please consider the mission statement of the American
Indian Business Leaders.
The loss of a national treasury and heritage is at hand.
The beautiful customs, traditions and values of American Indian
people could be but pages in history books by the end of the
21st Century. The economic viability of indigenous people will
determine this fate.
The American Indian Business Leaders is an organization
that recognizes this dilemma and faces the challenge by placing
seeds of self-sufficiency and culturally appropriate economic
development in youth and students, thereby sparking their own
creativity and resourcefulness to address the future well-being
of their own people and, most importantly, AIBL offers a
concrete vision of something to hope for.
By investing in educational programs such as AIBL and
others, in the long run, eventually we can develop a new
modern-day hunter, one that provides for the people in a
dynamic cultural way. Therefore, we should invest heavily in
educational or entrepreneurial activities that pull, assist,
and reward those learners, young and old, who are so inclined
and want to help solve the tribe's problem of unemployment.
We should also invest in a lot of research and planning so
that good ideas and plans have the best chance of succeeding.
We need to be patient and plan and plan and then plan some
more. We on this reservation are facing no quick fix or
solution. It will take a long time, so we need to constantly be
thinking of the seventh generation, not of our own immediate
good. We need to understand that there is more hard times
ahead, but gradually as our new hunters come into being, they
will alleviate our present-day existence and our people will
again enjoy a healthy lifestyle.
JTAC funding should be used to lure our people into
concentrating and attacking the joblessness issue. Those who
can create jobs for themselves and others should be rewarded as
a priority; 80 percent of the adults on this reservation are
without work. Welfare is eating away at our self-dignity. We
should not be worrying about how much I or we can get of this
JTAC money, rather, what can I or we do to create jobs.
We should consider the following possible initiatives. I
have listed 22 options here, different things that are
possibilities that I think about that could be done by us. I
look into this room and I see the students and I see anybody in
this room that should be able to have a shot at some money
with, and just as Bob said, and I think it was mentioned
before, some due diligence, that they put together a business
plan and be required to give it good so it has the best chance
of succeeding. I think if you did that, the money was there,
you would see our people coming forward.
There was a program on TV, I think Bill Moyer had it, it
was one of the network correspondents, but he's talking about
Muncie, IN. Maybe some of you saw it. It's called Middle Town
and it was talking about typical America, Muncie, IN. He was
talking about what that town went through, and at first it
was--the people survived in there by these big plants that were
there and now it's completely changed. The people are
supporting one another with a lot of small business activities.
And I see that. I see that as a possibility for our tribe.
I see everybody in this room and everybody should have a chance
at least to take these businesses and we start them up, we work
at them, make them successful, do the best we can with them,
then that money stays here.
The bank proposition, I have been pushing that for a long
time. We need to keep that money here, the $35 million the
tribe has annually, and more, the college has money, this
school has money, the IHS has money, and we should be thinking
about how we can help one another.
So that's the list. I have got down here pheasant farm. I
think we have Bob Molash over here who is thinking about that.
Gee, I just see there is things that we could do, recreational
activities. There's all kinds of stuff that we could do with
that river out there, but we just need to lure or help our
people say that here is a pot of money. I think we've only
got--far too little money has been allocated right now, I mean
way too far. We need a lot more pull for our people with a lot
more possibility of getting this and applying for it.
I have said the list of possibilities that I just read are
but a few ideas that can become a reality. In my opinion, we
must do everything we can to encourage the spirit of
resourcefulness and do everything we can to empower a host of
creative problem solvers with JTAC funding. Just as in the
story, we should endeavor to strengthen those that can give our
tribe the best chance of surviving. I do believe that this
direction offers our people the best hope to constructively
exist in the future.
To conclude my comments, Senator, I would strongly
recommend that the Senator stick to his stated commitment of
economic recovery. I believe there is a lot of cultural wisdom,
such as the story I just shared, which supports such a position
and, consequently, backs your stance to appropriately use the
JTAC interest earnings.
Thank you for allowing me to give this testimony. Thank
you.
[Prepared statement of Mr. Archambault appears in
appendix.]
Senator Conrad. Thank you very much. And now to Ron McNeil.
Welcome, Ron. It's good to have you here. Why don't you proceed
with your testimony.
STATEMENT OF RON McNEIL, PRESIDENT, SITTING BULL COLLEGE
Mr. McNeil. Thank you, Senator Conrad. Welcome to the
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe. We are pleased to have you here
today. I wanted to thank you, as well as the chairman, Senator
Inouye, for allowing me to testify before the Senate Committee
on Indian Affairs today.
For the record, my name is Ron McNeil. I am the president
of Sitting Bull College. I am an enrolled member of the
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe. My testimony today is going to cover
primarily two issues which I have been asked to cover today on
JTAC, and that is the planning process and compliance with the
Act, as well as implementation of the fund.
To start with, the planning process--I guess I should back
up. One point, Senator, is that I am a lawyer, but I don't
practice law so I haven't lost all my common sense yet,
although some people have accused me of that.
In terms of the process, Senator, I think it was a--as the
chairman had mentioned in his testimony, it was a learning
process for us. We weren't given any guidance by anybody in
terms of how the planning process should look. And in and of
itself that sometimes created a stumbling block, but I think it
was a good lesson for us to learn; that is, that it's better
for us to create our own process as opposed to having one
dictated to us. And I don't think there is going to be any
planning process that ever works for all tribes. Each tribe is,
as we have always said, sovereign, each of them have their own
rules on how they govern themselves, their own customs and
traditions, et cetera, et cetera. So there's not going to ever
be one planning process that's going to be good and cover all
tribes in this situation.
Be that as it was, it was a difficult process for us
because we did have to live by two requirements of the law, and
that is specifically section 35-04, which designated the funds
for four specific purposes; that is, education, social welfare,
economic development, and other programs. What the idea was is
that they would assist at least in the economic development and
social welfare and education of this tribe.
I think that the categories that were set up, the six
categories that were finalized by this Tribe, do meet the
requirements of section 35-04. None of them fall outside of
that.
The other requirement that we were very--that was very hard
for us to meet simply because a lot of the people on this
reservation still grieve over losing the land, and that is
section 35-06 which said no capita payments. We did have a lot
of discussion on that on this Tribe. The discussion even
continues today. And it's not always understood by the members
of the tribe that this money was meant purely as an economic
recovery tool, not to equitably compensate the original
landowners who lost that land. That, I believe, is a different
subject not covered by this particular legislation.
And, again, it was hard for us to get around that. Every
time we went out to the districts for comments, there were a
number of different committees that did go out there to seek
input from the districts, and continually were faced with the
idea of somehow compensating the original landowners. I believe
that's one of the reasons why Kenel was one of the first
jurisdictions to receive funding under the access plan because
their district was impacted the most out of any of the river
districts.
Be that as it may, the idea that--it was again a lengthy
process. We had to deal with the idea of the per capita
payments. We did get around that. I don't think everyone
understands that. There were six categories that were set up.
With the idea that it was quite a lengthy process and there was
a lot of input from both grassroots people in the community, as
well as the tribal government, as well as some of the
institutions, Sitting Bull College being included, that we were
able to create, if you will, this access plan which set up
those six categories.
It comes to the implementation actually of that access plan
where I think that we start to run into some difficulties. In
the implementation of it, as I read from the chairman's
statement, he talks about three categories that have been
funded of the six categories, that being the economic fund, the
money had been spent there; the community economic development
fund, the money was spent there; and the resource development
land acquisition, the money was spent there, as well.
And we had listened to the testimony in terms of the
amounts of millions of dollars that has been drawn down
primarily for those three categories. Some of it is spent, not
all of it at this point in time has.
I don't think--in defense of the tribe, I don't think that
the tribe in spending in those three categories went outside
the spirit of the law or the intent of the law. That is they
did stay within the educational category, the idea that this
was for economic development. None of it did go into any
individual's pockets that I am aware of. Again, they didn't
violate the spirit or the intent of the law, but where I think
the problem occurs is that, and you mentioned it, there needs
to be some accountability, accountability not only in terms of
how the money is actually spent, but I think accountability in
terms of creating plans prior to the time the money has
actually been disbursed.
The access plan as approved, and, again, with input from a
lot of people in this tribe, spells out a lot of the
requirements that should be looked for in terms of how you
access the funds, what it's used for. Specifically, there are
some requirements that are in there that haven't been met at
all and I think are going--if they were, would lend to the idea
of a good planning process for this tribe.
Each fund is supposed to establish--or the tribe, itself--
excuse me--is supposed to establish and allocate to each one of
those funds a set amount each year. The tribe has failed to do
that. Because it's failed to allocate said amounts to those
different funds--and the amount that they put in those can
change depending on how the tribe prioritizes each of those
categories. That's the tribe's wish, but I would hope that they
would at least inform the public of the plan that they have put
in place of the amounts allocated on a yearly basis. The plan
calls for that and I think that's a simple requirement of
sitting down and budgeting the money that you have so far
allocated and what you anticipate for next year.
I think Mr. Archambault has worked on a similar-type
concept that is basically a budgeting plan for each of those
categories. It hasn't been done, so nobody knows how much is
allocated to land purchase, nobody knows in this tribe how much
money is going to education until after the money has actually
been drawn down. Prior to that nobody is really aware of how
much money is supposed to be put in any of those categories
because there has been no allocation. That's one problem I see,
is that allocation is begun each year in those categories.
One of the other problems I see with it is that there are
supposed to be fund administrators for each of those funds.
After the money is allocated to those funds, the fund
administrator then is supposed to put in place an application
process whereby people who fit within those categories, whether
it be a district or whether it be a school or whether it be an
individual, knows what the application process is. At this
point in time there is no application process. Part of that
application process requires that the entity seeking funding,
whether it be Sitting Bull College asking for $4 million, that
we need to show the fund administrator, the tribe, how our
request fits into a long-range strategic plan for the
institution. If it's the district, the district needs to put
forward a long-range district plan on what it plans to see, not
only for this year, but for years down the road and how much
money it intends to encumber or needs to fulfill its plan over
the years that allows for the budgeting process.
Those are basic tenets and they are laid out in the access
plan that has been submitted by the tribe to the BIA. However,
those things, those requirements haven't been met. And I think
that, again, the tribe hasn't violated the spirit of the law in
terms of where it spent the money. I think that it makes for
much better fund accounting, it makes for better strategic
planning for this whole tribe if those basic tenets that are
laid out in that plan are actually followed.
Now, I'm not going to fault the BIA at this point in time
for saying that they didn't know what to look for. That, yes,
there is this idea that the tribe is sovereign and should be
able to utilize the funds in a manner which it sees consistent
with this act. However, when the Tribe created this plan--it
wasn't the BIA that created the plan, it was the tribe that
created the plan. In doing so, the tribe should simply follow
the procedures that it sets forth in the access plan, itself.
Now, the tribe hasn't done that in the past. It has, I
think, learned a valuable lesson in terms of, and I mentioned
that in my testimony, and that is that when you start
allocating funds, giving funds out without strategic plans,
without sending in an overall budgeting, you're going to get a
run from every institution or individual in the community that
can get its hands on the money.
I think the tribe experienced that run when it gave money
to one district and the rest wanted the same amount. You gave
to one educational institution, Sitting Bull College was the
next in line, we stood in line for $4 million, and after that--
so every other school on this reservation stood in line for
money. And so you've got another $12 million which has been
drawn down for schools, but hasn't been given out.
The tribe has learned a lesson, I think, and that is that
it's asking for the schools, it's asking for the districts to
submit strategic plans. It is going back to utilizing the
process laid out in the JTAC access plan, but I think there
needs to be some monitoring by the Bureau of Indian Affairs to
see that in fact the requirements that the tribe put out for
itself is being followed by the tribe. It does lead then to
strategic planning, long-range planning for the institutions,
for the districts and for the individuals on this reservation
to know where the money is going to be spent not only today,
but tomorrow, and what are the priorities of the tribe.
Senator Conrad. Thank you very much. Ron, let me ask you,
$4 million has been allocated to the college. Has that money
been expended?
Mr. McNeil. No; it hasn't, Senator. To date I know the
figures have changed slightly. We have accumulated--that money
is put in an account in Bismarck for this college. Today we
have accumulated approximately $150,000, a little over that,
maybe $160,000 worth of interest income on it.
What we have spent to date is approximately $450,000. What
that has been spent on so far is approximately $360,000 has
been spent on architectural fees. Another approximately $89,000
to $90,000 has been used to fund the cultural center which is
currently out there. So--excuse me. It was $360,000 for the
architectural fees and approximately $90,000 for the cultural.
We have spent about $450,000. Adding $150,000 on top of $4
million and then reducing that by the $4.5--$450,000 we spent,
we currently have $3.7 million remaining.
Senator Conrad. What have the architecture fees been spent
on?
Mr. McNeil. Drafting--a number of things. One is--the
architectural fees include testing of the soil to make sure
that it can support buildings, the surveying of the property to
make sure that we actually got our boundaries in place, the
actual drawing now of a science laboratory, which will be one-
quarter of the science classes and administrative building.
It's actually about a $40 million project that we have got
planned right now. So the tribe's contribution represents 10
percent of that $40 million campus.
Senator Conrad. Thank you very much for that. You're
talking about a $40 million long-term plan?
Mr. McNeil. Yes.
Senator Conrad. Let me just say, and this is hard to say,
but it's the truth, and it needs to be known. This legislation
was passed on the idea that it would provide an economic
recovery fund to the entire Tribe, that the entire Tribe was
hurt by what occurred. This was not intended, and specifically
it was precluded by our colleagues--and let me just say that
the tribal leadership at the time was absolutely involved in
these decisions. This wasn't Kent Conrad just making a
decision. It didn't work that way. This was consultation with
the tribal council, the tribal chairman in terms of the
negotiation with our colleagues to get this money passed. And
we were specifically precluded--the only way we could get this
money was to make the commitment that it would not go out in
per capita payments.
Now, why did our colleagues insist on that? They insisted
on it because even though there's desperate need, if you put
the money out in for the future. We haven't built a stronger
base. We haven't built jobs. We haven't built opportunity. We
haven't improved the long-term condition of the tribe and its
members. That's why they insisted on that condition. And we
agreed to it. Let's be absolutely clear and honest with each
other, we agreed to that condition. I agreed to it. The tribal
leadership agreed to it. That's a fact. And so that's where we
are today.
The idea was an economic recovery fund. Yes, invest in our
people. Invest in education so they have a better future.
Invest in jobs so they have an opportunity to get a job and to
make money. Yes, buy land to restore the land base. All of
those things were contemplated. Yes, have things that could
help people with immediate needs such as medical. If there was
a medical situation or some special need, that's provided for.
And the idea for those who suffered the most, those who had
their lands taken, that that should be part of a consideration
on their trying to get money to go to college or that they are
trying to get started in a business, that that would be one
part of the consideration of how the funds would be used to
build the economic base of the community. That was all part of
the agreement.
So I wanted to say that. That is what happened. That's how
it came about. And we have got an obligation to try to the best
of our ability to carry out the intentions of the program. And
the intentions are good intentions. The intention is to use
this money so that five years from now we come back and 1 year
from now and 2 years from now things are better here, the
people have a better future. And I think these witnesses have
done an excellent job in outlining that here today. I thank you
for that.
I thank each of the witnesses for your participation here
today. Your full statements will be made part of the record.
Now I am going to open it to people in the audience who
might want to say something. If you would just go to the
microphones--anybody who would like to make a statement go to
the microphones and line up there so you have a chance to be
heard. My intention would be--we have got a real time crunch
here, but we are going to take 15 minutes to get statements. We
probably won't be able to hear from everybody who would like to
make a statement. I would say this to you. We will go back and
forth. We will start on this microphone to my left, then we
will come over to this microphone. We will go back and forth.
We will give everybody 1 minute, 1 minute. That's the only way
we can do it fairly. So if you have got more than 1 minute,
think quickly about how you reduce the length so that we can
give as many people a chance to make a statement here as
possible.
Let me just say that when you begin, if you would give your
name and spell it for the stenographer, that would help her.
And we will start to my left. Yes, sir.
STATEMENT OF TERRENCE YELLOW FAT, CHAIRMAN, FORT YATES LOCAL
DISTRICT
Mr. Yellow Fat. Thank you, Senator. My name is Terrence
Yellow Fat, T-e-r-r-e-n-c-e Y-e-l-l-o-w F-a-t. I'm chairman of
the Fort Yates local district.
I will submit the full text----
Senator Conrad. Just withhold for a minute. We would ask
people to refrain from conversation so that we can hear the
witnesses. Please proceed.
Mr. Yellow Fat. Thank you. A quick overview, Senator. I
would like to quote from the Congressional Research Service,
Library of Congress in correspondence to the Honorable Senator
Dorgan dated September 8, 1998, relative to the use of the
funds under Three Affiliated Tribes and Standing Rock Sioux
Tribe Equitable Compensation Program. I quote:
Currently, there are no Department of the Interior
implementing regulations to provide the tribes with procedures
and standards in making requests for expenditures from the
Funds. There is scant legislative history.
Next, the Congressional Research Service indicates that if
one of the tribes establishes a program to improve the
education, social welfare, or economic development of tribal
members and sets criteria for eligibility for financial
assistance or grants, nothing in the statute would bar the
Secretary of the Interior from approving a request by a tribe
to fund such a program despite the fact that the program would
eventually result in payments to individuals. In proposing such
programs, the tribes would be advised to draft eligibility
standards to identify recipients and set up procedures to
screen applicants and oversee management and disbursements,
rather than submitting prescreened lists of tribal members.
And basically our local district has been blamed for
proposing a per capita payment, and actually we are trying to
use this criteria here to assist the residents of Fort Yates
local district.
I will end my comments there. The full text will be
submitted.
[Prepared statement of Mr. Yellow Fat appears in appendix.]
Senator Conrad. I appreciate that. Let me just say this to
you very directly. That may be the Congressional Research
Service. I was there. I wrote this law. I got it passed. I had
to negotiate with my colleagues to get it passed. There is
absolutely no question that the commitments were made not to
make per capita payments. That does not mean you can't help
people go to school, you can't help people do other things, you
can't loan money to them to start a business. You can do all of
those things. But you can't just make per capita payments. That
was a very clear commitment that was made.
Mr. Yellow Fat. And we are not proposing that.
Senator Conrad. Okay. I appreciate that. Yes, sir. We'll
come to this side, and if you would give your name for the
record and spell your name to help our stenographer.
STATEMENT OF CEDRIC GOOD HOUSE, VICE CHAIRMAN, EXECUTIVE JTAC
COMMISSION
Mr. Good House. My name is Cedric Good House, C-e-d-r-i-c
G-o-o-d H-o-u-s-e. And I am a member of the Fort Yates
community. I'm also vice chairman of the Executive JTAC
Commission. The Executive JTAC Commission is members of each
community elected by their communities, and it's a commission
established by the tribal ordinance that we develop and the
tribal council pass.
What is significant here, Senator, is that in our
development of the ordinance, we proposed an administrative
structure to be put in place to manage and administer the funds
outside of tribal government, a non-political, unbiased
administrative structure so that what you are talking about
helping people recover economically can be done free of
politics.
To date--and I just want to--and I will be submitting
additional documentation to support our claim for that it needs
to be administered outside of tribal government, not outside of
the government of the tribe, but outside
It's the same thing that you use when you make allocations
at the Senate level. You give money to different departments,
like the Interior Department. They in turn make money available
to different park people, and communities and tribal
governments apply for that money with appropriate data. That's
not done here. Whoever you're in favor with with council,
that's--you know, whenever--and a lot of the allocations were
done not without data, and I think that to date things have
been pretty nice as to how this has been done.
I want to use one example that you raised some questions
about, and that concerns the $12 million that was told to you
that's been deposited in the bank of Wells Fargo--Wells Fargo
Bank in Mobridge. That resolution that authorized that draw-
down, that resolution was rescinded, so there is no $12 million
for going to those schools that you might think. It's just
sitting in the bank at the discretion of the tribal
administration. And without a resolution, that money--$7.4
million plus of that money was used to--was encumbered to
collateral for cosigned loans prior to the election of 2001.
And there is a great deal of concern over that. It was
brought to our attention as the Executive JTAC Commission
because we were advocating that there be an oversight office
for management and accountability of these funds and this is
where we started trying to rectify that problem. We wanted to
have the plan suspended, rewrite the plan so that we can--so
things can be followed. We wanted to have policies and
procedures initiated, because the policies and procedures
portion of the plan that was approved by the BIA, there have
been no policies and procedures ever established. The BIA in
turn, they say they submitted resolutions for draw-down. There
is a reg that states that there is--the membership of the tribe
needs to be notified of the intent of the draw-down, of the
intent. And prior to that, prior to any draw-down there has
never been any sort of public hearing. We tried to rectify that
by writing it into the ordinance.
Senator Conrad. Let me interrupt you and ask you----
Mr. Good House. Sure. Please.
Senator Conrad. [continuing]. Something about something you
have said.
Mr. Good House. Sure.
Senator Conrad. What I hear you saying, correct me if I
have heard you incorrectly, is that the $12 million that was
drawn down for school repair and construction is in an account,
that some portion of that has been encumbered for loans to
individuals?
Mr. Good House. Yes; that's right. $7.4 million of it. And
it's also in banks, different banks across the country, from
Austin, Texas, to Minneapolis, to various other banks
surrounding this area in North and South Dakota, Montana, and,
you know, outside--further outside.
And I believe there is a definition that you put into the
legislation that talks of Standing Rock Sioux Tribe and what
that means, and the definition of that means for residents of
the Great Sioux Nation residing on the Standing Rock
Reservation.
Senator Conrad. That's exactly right, it is for Standing
Rock. Well, that's a real concern. If the money has been drawn
down for one purpose and used for another purpose, that's
exactly why we are having this hearing today, to find out how
the funds have been used. And if money was drawn down for
school construction and used as collateral for loans to
individuals, then that presents a very serious problem.
Mr. Good House. You know, Senator Conrad, the tribal
government was petitioned--when the loan program was closed,
the tribal government was petitioned by membership to utilize
$5.5 million for a lending program. The BIA returned that
resolution back to the tribe saying which fund did it come out
of? That resolution was never justified to the request of the
BIA. Instead, they just let it go. And yet at the same--without
an authorizing mechanism or authority or resolution, they
encumbered--the administration encumbered $7.4 million of that
$12 million that was sitting in a bank. There are regulations
of the Office of Trust Management that allow the tribe to
return money back to the U.S. Treasury and the resolution that
rescinded that, and I have the minutes and will be submitting
that to your office.
Senator Conrad. Will you submit that for the record,
please?
Mr. Good House. Yes; and in that resolution it admits that
we did not follow the plan, the tribal government.
Senator Conrad. All right. Thank you very much.
Mr. Good House. Thank you.
[Prepared statement of Mr. Good House appears in appendix.]
Senator Conrad. Yes, sir.
STATEMENT OF MANAJAUNJINCA HILL
Mr. Hill. Thank you, Senator Conrad. My name is
Manajaunjinca, M-a-n-a-j-a-u-n-j-i-n-c-a, Hill, H-i-l-l,
descendent of John Taggert. My mom was Rose--my grandma was
Rose Taggert, so I am a direct descendent of the people who
lost land out there.
I would just like to say thank you for making one comment,
and that was that landowners or people who actually lost lands
can be given a preference in these millions of dollars. I think
that has been overlooked so often so many times. I appreciate
you saying that and it being on the record that maybe the tribe
will look at us as landowners who lost and give us some type of
preference. Thank you.
Senator Conrad. Next.
STATEMENT OF PETE RED TOMAHAWK, CHAIRMAN, CANNON BALL COMMUNITY
Mr. Red Tomahawk. Thank you, Senator Conrad. My name is
Pete Red Tomahawk. I am the district chairman for the Cannon
Ball community. And also I sit as one of four national cochairs
for negotiated rulemaking committee. And it's a privilege and
an honor to represent the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe in this
capacity.
But my concern, Senator Conrad, is that we are one of the
communities that is adjacent to the Missouri River. Our
community was relocated--97 percent of our community has been
relocated on top of the hill. On top of the hill where our
community now sits, it faces the harsh climate of the winter,
of the elements that come and whipping at our housing, but yet
at the same time we still have a dire shortage of housing that
was shared with our people back then. You know, what is your
need? You know, where are the grandchildren of our grandparents
that are finally seeing the reality of the JTAC dollars that
become a reality? Our grandparents and our parents have not
seen that. But yet, most importantly, now as grandchildren we
see what our grandfathers--our parents have said was that it's
not what I want. It's for my grandchildren that are going to be
here for tomorrow. So I am looking at that.
We have a dire shortage of housing. We have a very serious
problem with our youth in looking at youth suicides. We are in
a crisis even as we speak, Senator Conrad, and looking at even
as late as last night, I was informed of a young man that was
going to try to commit suicide.
What we did as a community, we established a zero tolerance
looking at alcohol, drugs and youth violence. But what it stems
from is alcohol. We have this resolution on file that was
approved by the tribal council and we have just recently had a
liquor license passed for our communities to look at the
problem--the stem of all of these problems. So this is a great
concern of ours. In looking at that----
Senator Conrad. I am going to have to ask you to wrap up
because, otherwise, we are never going to get through all the
people who would like to speak.
Mr. Red Tomahawk. The last point is roads. We need better
roads, Senator, and looking at our streets and the roads, our
school bus routes. That's all.
Senator Conrad. Thank you very much. Yes, sir.
STATEMENT OF JEFF McLAUGHLIN
Mr. Jeff McLaughlin. Welcome to Standing Rock, Mr. Conrad.
My name is Jeff McLaughlin, M-c-L-a-u-g-h-l-i-n. I am a
landowner through inheritance. I was directly affected as a
result of the flooding the Oahe taken area. Therefore, several
lawsuits were filed in tribal court. And the Hunkpapa Treaty
Council, Standing Rock Landowners Association that initiated
lawsuits on the JTAC through permission we acquired because my
parents--my mother is from Kenel, my dad is from Wakpala, and
so our family has a direct say in this. And there is a lot of
things I want to say, but these lawsuits were filed because
landowners are not being sufficiently compensated to their
satisfaction. Because 85 percent was lost, the priority should
be to the landowners secondary to the outlying district. The
tribe does not lose as much land as the landowner. This is
submitted in the court documents, that factual evidence, and we
will be submitting some more.
The case that--the angle that we came from is the
landowners' priority and we should deem it necessary to take
back the money or to reappropriate it to the landowners because
as a solution, land replacement may be--just compensation may
be a trust fund, a hundred thousand dollars for each family
because there is a lot more than 180 families in the whole
district. There is 300-plus individuals who are asking for more
information, but the way the system is set up that we cannot
access this because of the lawsuit, so we have to go--that's
the only alternative. We try to reason with the tribe, the
district.
Currently I'm self-employed, unemployed maybe because of my
activities. But this is what I believe in. I volunteered my
services. The information is factual, but for whatever reason,
the landowner should be dealt with appropriately, sufficiently
and compensated, and that's why the lawsuit was filed. That's
the only alternative. So I ask that--make a challenge if you
reappropriate the money, because the way the system is set up
now it's not working. And as a landowner we are asking for your
help because we have been waiting 40-plus years for this. So
another thing is interpretation of the law because each
family's needs are different. Some may have lost houses, some
may have lost all of it. But that's what we are asking, make it
a priority for the landowners. With that, thank you.
Senator Conrad. All right. Let me just say--I would ask
Cora Jones to come back to the witness table. I understand she
is still here. Let me just say, Lynn, if you would come up,
too, because I am going to have to have you take over after I
hear from Cora Jones on what we were just told here. We have to
go to Dickinson today and we have people waiting for us there.
So Lynn Clancy is my State chief of staff. He will take the
rest of the testimony, it will all be recorded in the record
and we will review that.
I want to ask, Cora, we heard something here today that is
a concern to me and that is that the $12 million that was drawn
down for schools, apparently the assertion is that $7.4 million
of that was used--has been used as collateral for loans which
is not the purpose for which it was drawn down. Were you aware
of that?
Ms. Jones. No, sir.
Senator Conrad. Well, that kind of goes back to the whole
point I was making about knowing where the money is going and
have very specific indication of where it's going before it is
released. And this is exactly what I was worried about. Money
was released for one purpose, and the testimony is here today
it's been used for another purpose. Does that concern you?
Ms. Jones. Very much, yes.
Senator Conrad. Well, I think we have to get to the bottom
of this. And I am asking as part of the process that you engage
in to come back to us in 30 days with a process that we can be
assured that money is released for a specific purpose and goes
for that purpose, that you get to the bottom of this.
Ms. Jones. I understand.
Senator Conrad. I want to know if this is accurate. I want
to know how this occurred, how money has been released for one
purpose and used for another purpose because that is not
acceptable and we have got to have an answer.
Ms. Jones. Yes; I agree with you wholeheartedly. I wrote
that down to ensure that that gets investigated.
Senator Conrad. All right. I want to--I intend now to hold
the record of this hearing open until I get the answers to
those questions. And if you will provide it as soon as you have
it.
Ms. Jones. I will. Senator, can I add one more thing?
Senator Conrad. Yes; was a resolution that was not
rescinded, talking about the $12.5 million. In actuality, there
was only $7 million that was drawn down on that, on this
particular draw-down, and as far as--I have Dean Webb down
here. Dean, can you come up and explain this, please? I'm
sorry, my voice is going.
Senator Conrad. No; that's fine. If he's got the most
direct information, that's what we want in this hearing.
Identify yourself for the record again, Mr. Webb.
Mr. Webb. Dean Webb with the Office of Trust Fund
Management. Just to make clear here, there was a draw-down that
was requested for $12.5 million dollars, and in that $5.5
million was to be used for this credit program, that was
mentioned in one of the testimoneys. That did not fit the plan
and we did not release that $5.5 million.
Senator Conrad. Well, what we heard here today is $12
million was released and $7.4 million was used for a purpose
other than the stated purpose. That's what I heard here today.
Mr. Webb. But the comment was also made about this tribal
credit program.
Senator Conrad. Right.
Mr. Webb. And we did not release $5.5 million.
Senator Conrad. You did not release the money for that
purpose.
Mr. Webb. We adjusted the 1034.
Senator Conrad. It seems somehow the money got used for
that. You may not have released it for that purpose, it got
released for another purpose and used apparently in that other
way.
Let me just say this. I want to apologize to those that are
standing in line and waiting to testify. I have to go because I
can't make it in time for the next meeting if I don't. But Lynn
Clancy, who is my chief of staff here in the State, has worked
closely with people on the Standing Rock Reservation for many
years and he will listen to the rest of the testimony, it will
all be recorded in the record, so we will have a complete
record of everybody's testimony.
I want to thank everybody who has participated here today.
I want to thank Chairman Murphy for his courtesy in helping
organize the hearing. I want to thank Cora Jones for being
here. I want to thank all of you who participated in this
hearing. I appreciate it very much.
Lynn Clancy will now take the additional testimony. And we
will hold the record open for the hearing until we have these
additional items made available.
Mr. Good House. Sir, may I make a point of clarification
here for Cora, as well as Dean Webb? There was $12 million
drawn-down for three schools, one was the McLaughlin School,
one was the Solen-Cannon Ball School and one was the Fort Yates
District School. That $12 million that was drawn-down was
rescinded after they got the money here. That money was
deposited in the bank in Mobridge. It has since sat there and
the tribe then, the administration because there was no
resolution by the tribe reauthorizing use of that money, so the
administration of this Government took that and used $7.4
million of that money to collateralize--to cosign for loans
across the country. Now, we have the documents from Larry New
Bird, the finance officer, that speaks very clearly to that, as
well. Thank you.
Senator Conrad. Let me just say, I would like you to share
that documentation not only with the committee, but with Cora
Jones, because that should not happen, very clearly, and we
have got to get to the bottom of what's occurred here and we
have got to make sure that does not happen again. Thank you
very much.
Mr. Clancy. Thank you, Senator. We will continue now with
the testimony and I believe we are on this side.
STATEMENT OF FAITH TAKEN ALIVE, BEAR SOLDIER DISTRICT
Ms. Taken Alive. For the record, my name is Faith Taken
Alive. I'm from the Bear Soldier District.
And I would like the Senator to hear my comment, and please
take notice that there are two JTAC status reports, both dated
September 20, 2001. One JTAC status report shows a $50 million
minus that was issued in October at the Prairie Knights Casino.
The second JTAC status report also dated September 20, 2001,
that was passed out at the January Cannon Ball JTAC
reservationwide meeting reflects a minus $57 million figure.
There's a discrepancy of $7 million between the two documents.
Also, on the September 20--yes, September 2002 JTAC status
report, there is a list of where the banks--of money--where the
JTAC money has been collateralized, there's a list of the banks
where and the amounts where the JTAC funds have been sent as
collateral.
Also, if you go to the May 4--back to the May 4, 2002,
motion number 47, I included it in the packet of documents I
gave to you, a transcript of the May 4 meeting whereby there is
no motion to approve the JTAC access plan or the EDFI or there
was no motion, period. That was--Mr. Murphy clarified that
himself three times in a row, and then proceeded to call for a
second based on another councilman's recommendation, then took
a vote on a motion that did not exist, then turned and used
that tape verbatim to state that a motion by resolution was
made to approve of the draw-down of the first $6 million of
money to approve the JTAC access plan when in fact no motion
even existed. I ask the Senator to take special--look at that
for fraudulent obtaining of Federal funds.
Also, the loans and land purchases suddenly stopped after
Mr. Murphy was re-elected. I also request that the Senator's
office investigate this stopping of the loans and the land sale
based on election fraud laws--Federal laws of the United
States.
Also, I would like to emphasize to the Senator that we
heard some nice, shiny, fluffy reports here today, but not one
single job has been created with the JTAC funds. We have
continued to live in a high rate of poverty. We continue the
dependence of community members on the tribal council and the
tribal government because of the lack of jobs. There is no
financial dignity on Standing Rock for individual enrolled
members. And I request that the Senator do a full-blown
investigation on the JTAC funds of the Standing Rock Sioux
Tribe, and I thank you for your time.
Mr. Clancy. Thank you, Faith. Now we will go to the next
mike here.
STATEMENT OF WANDA WHITE EAGLE
Ms. White Eagle. My name is Wanda White Eagle. Shall I
spell it? It's just the way it----
Mr. Clancy. Spell your last name.
Ms. White Eagle. White Eagle, two words, W-h-i-t-e E-a-g-l-
e.
Mr. Clancy. Thank you.
Ms. White Eagle. I have heard a lot of comments, and there
was just one person that I really found--you know, this
Archambault guy that told the story about our people, how the
people are suffering on the reservations, the children,
especially the children.
We have a lot of educated people. We have a lot of people
sitting on several committees, our and it seems to me like a
lot of people kind of get carried away when it comes to money,
when you talk money. And we should really sit down and put our
minds together and start, you know, trying to create a
different--you know, a different community, a different life
for--there are seven districts--I think there are eight now on
the Standing Rock Reservation total, okay, to create economic
development. Just like I said, there's a lot of educated people
within our reservation, but I see a lot of greedy people, too.
I am one of the people that was applying for a business
loan. I was told that there was a set amount of 350,000. I have
a business plan that is like a multimillion-dollar project, not
only from--well, I am from the Rock Creek community, probably
one of the smallest communities on the reservation.
I have this business plan, I am working on it right now,
but just like everyone else, you know, personal problems,
family crisis, medical emergencies, everything that can get in
the way of you sitting down and putting your business plan
together. And I am working on my own. I am not getting paid
from any sources, no committees. I do not sit on any
committees.
I am a mother, full-time mother, concerned member of our
community, and I see a lot of the children struggling and
suffering, and I as a person want to make a commitment to make
those changes, and with this business plan I have, you know, I
am going to see these changes, I'm going to carry out these
changes, and I have a multimillion-dollar project, and I'm
talking about dinosaurs, I'm talking about fossils. You all
know what that is. We have those in our community of Rock
Creek, within the boundaries, the natural resources.
And I'm going to tell you a story about how our people
lived a long time ago, but we lived off the land. I'll cut my
story short so other people can give their input and whatever.
But I just want to let the people know that it's time now to
stop and to take a real good look at what we--the opportunities
that we have to create a better future for our children. I am
talking about a cultural center with arts and crafts. All our
people on the reservation have been gifted with the talents of
art, being able to create costumes, beadwork, star quilts, and
I hope you know what I am talking about. Just to give you an
idea what I am talking about----
Mr. Clancy. I think so, Wanda. But we do need to have your
plan--business plan, and so on, fairly addressed by a process
that would be put in place that administers the business
development fund or the equity fund. I don't think we will be
able to do that in this hearing.
Ms. White Eagle. Yes; well, I was just here to inform the
people I am one of the people that is trying to create economic
development for our community. By this I was talking about the
dinosaurs, we can create jobs that way for our people, on-the-
job training to bring back, you know, and then a museum to
preserve our natural resources. By that I am talking about the
dinosaurs and the fossils. Our home is where Sitting Bull was
born and where he was raised and where he died. And there is a
lot of history in our community that the people kind of fell
away from, so we want to preserve that. You know, with this
museum we want to be able to preserve those things, but we
would also like to create economic development and a better
education for our community and for our younger generation, but
not only the Rock Creek community, the whole Standing Rock
Reservation as a whole. I'm talking about the whole
reservation. I'm not just thinking about Rock Creek.
Mr. Clancy. Well, thank you very much.
Ms. White Eagle. Thank you.
Mr. Clancy. Now to this mike.
STATEMENT OF SHIRLEY MARVIN, TETUWAN OCETI SAKOWIN TREATY
COUNCIL
Ms. Marvin. Thank you. My name is Shirley Marvin. I'm with
the Tetuwan Oceti Sakowin Treaty Council.
And, Mr. Clancy, we were up visiting you in your office
last month, and if you remember, we gave you a packet of
material, a tape----
Mr. Clancy. Yes.
Ms. Marvin. [continuing]. A transcript. I would encourage
you to really read those and go through everything that we did
give you. Listen to that tape. It's a shocker.
But what you've heard here and what you are hearing is just
the tip of the iceberg. You know, there's been a horrible
misuse of power in regard to JTAC funds. People have said
earlier that there have been no jobs created, and that's the
truth, no jobs. You have documentation within that packet that
shows you illegal use of resolutions, instruments of
government, have been misused. They have been doctored. And
that's all in that packet that we gave you.
Mr. Clancy. And that material has been put into the record
and we do have it.
Ms. Marvin. Thank you. What I would like to recommend is
that we have a complete investigation from the IGA's or RG's
office because there is just too much. People have lost money.
I am a landowner, too. I never did get paid for the land that
we had here. My home that I grew up in, that was flooded. I
never did get paid for it, so I know what these landowners are
talking about because I am one of them. And I don't have a job.
I also know what the unemployed are talking about. We need
jobs. I don't have a home. I know what the homeless are talking
about. So I fit in all these categories.
And I am requesting a complete investigation, not just an
audit, an investigation because the deeper you dig on this
material, the more you are going to find the illegal things
that are happening and have happened. And I think the people of
Standing Rock deserve that.
Mr. Clancy. And Senator Conrad shares your concern.
Ms. Marvin. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF RANDAL WHITE, TRIBAL COUNCILMAN, PORCUPINE, ND
Mr. White. Randal White, R-a-n-d-a-l W-h-i-t-e. I represent
the Porcupine, North Dakota, I'm a tribal councilman there.
I guess my wishes--I have been sitting--our community has
been sitting around the roundtable for the last 6 years of
planning, planning, planning, and we are one of the communities
that would like to see some of that money so that we can build
maybe a small clinic in our community, more houses, we can do
more things within our community, probably put in a convenience
store, because there is a need, that we have been sitting down
for the last 6 years.
And I hope each of the eight communities also need the same
in each of the communities. Each need is different. So I just
wanted to share that with you, because we have been sitting
around the roundtable for the last 6 years planning and
planning and now it's time that we see some of that money to
build jobs in our communities, give education money to our kids
to go to school.
I know my wife goes 80 miles roundtrip just to work. A lot
of our community members drive a long ways to work. We want to
put jobs there so we don't have to travel as long. Also, the
community of Selfridge needs water. And our roads in Porcupine
and Selfridge need some repairs, so we sure could use some of
that money out to the eight districts. Thank you very much.
Mr. Clancy. Thank you. This mike.
STATEMENT OF ALMA MENTZ
Ms. Mentz. My name is Alma Mentz, A-l-m-a M-e-n-t-z.
I'm here on behalf of the landowners that have lost land.
My mother happens to be one of them. And this is the thing Mary
Louise Defender Wilson spoke about, so many of the families
that grew up along this Missouri River that have been forced to
the top, to the back. To no-man's land, they put us, the
government--the U.S. Government. And we need to be healed. We
need to be healed. We're hurt. We are still hurting today
because of what the U.S. Government has done to you and I. For
what? No money.
My mother lost all her allotments. She lost four
allotments. I believe she received $1,200. You cannot put or I
cannot put value on the trees, the land. You cannot put a value
on their being. But this is nation, the red nation, the Sioux
Nation, the Great Sioux Nation I have been saying.
But now what I want to see is that some of the landowners--
some districts have been given millions and millions of
dollars. When are the ones that had lost land and from thus
generated the JTAC money, when are we ancestors going to get
any of the money, the funding that's going out? The landowners
lost all this land. We're sitting here and over there somebody
else is fighting over the money that has been generated from
the landowners' land. I'm hurt. I will speak against that to my
people today again. I speak like this to my council when I go
before them, because they are sitting on these serious
problems. We need to be healed. We have no funds set aside for
the healing process.
Look at our people. We are all going under with alcohol,
which the Government sent up the river to destroy the red
nation with. He first tried to kill off our buffalo. A little
history to you, sir. He said let us starve the people when he
got defeated by the Great Sioux Nation. He said let us starve
them. He chased my people all over. He massacred here and
there. Then when he couldn't, we were still survivors, he said
let us give them blankets with the disease of smallpox, and
which he did. This is why Lewis and Clark--the people are
strong on Lewis and Clark heavily today. I don't need to hold
them up there just because he's going to give me a few dollars
for my pocket to be remembered. Why aren't our ancestors
instead of Lewis and Clark? What kind of Indians are we today?
Mr. Clancy. I appreciate your comments.
Ms. Mentz. I really get upset, all these issues going on
here today. We need to be compensated.
Mr. Clancy. The purpose of this program is to try to
address some of those injustices.
Ms. Mentz. Thank you so much.
Mr. Clancy. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF ANTHONY WHITE MOUNTAIN, PROGRAM COORDINATOR,
LAKOTA RESIDENT MANAGE CORPORATION, McLAUGHLIN, SD
Mr. White Mountain. Hello. My name is Anthony White
Mountain, A-n-t-h-o-n-y W-h-i-t-e M-o-u-n-t-a-i-n, Senior. And
I work with the Lakota Resident Management Corporation as the
program coordinator in McLaughlin, SD.
And our resident management program and the boys and girls
club have put in requests JTAC money, which we are denied over
and over. I was wondering if that money can be used for social
programs to help the people and the residents such as finding
them jobs, and so forth? Can that money be used for that
purpose, for the purpose of a boys and girls club?
Mr. Clancy. Are you talking about a club?
Mr. White Mountain. JTAC money use.
Mr. Clancy. It would seem like it's within the purview of
the legislation. You know, I'm sure again there is a process
for evaluating these proposals, a determination can be made. I
don't think I should be trying to make that determination here
today. But certainly that's a worthwhile process to develop
youth. We need those kinds of programs.
Mr. White Mountain. One other question I have is the fact
that the illegal use of the JTAC money for election purposes,
what would happen if that was found to be true?
Mr. Clancy. Well, that's a whole--another issue that really
gets separate from JTAC and it needs to be looked at perhaps by
law illegal process of conducting elections, and I have heard
some very serious allegations made here and they need to be
investigated in a different way than this hearing would
provide.
Mr. White Mountain. Will that jeopardize the JTAC funds as
it exists now, if that is found to be true? If that's the case,
it can be found to be true, will that affect the JTAC money as
it is now?
Mr. Clancy. I don't see it affecting JTAC money for the
future. It's certainly something that would need to be stopped
and other legal proceedings brought to bear, investigations to
make sure that justice is brought for the past, but we would
through this process be making sure it doesn't happen in the
future.
Mr. White Mountain. Thank you very much.
Ms. Defender. Last but not least, Mr. Clancy, I have a
letter that was written by a renowned actor--I don't know if
you have heard of him--Gary Busey. Dear Mr. Conrad: The
following message was telephoned to me last evening. The
messenger is a young renowned actor who had the opportunity to
know the late Joseph A. Walker, who was vice president of our
Lakota/Dakota Advocates for Human and Civil Rights and one of
the founders of this organization.
Mr. Busey states to Senator Conrad, quote:
Whatever Standing Rock needs for the good of the people
relative to JTAC, you must listen to the elders and the
advocates for human and civil rights.
And I would like to give this to you because he's got a
little note at the bottom.
Mr. Clancy. Very good. I appreciate that. Okay. At the left
here.
STATEMENT OF PHYLLIS YOUNG
Ms. Young. My name is Phyllis Young, P-h-y-l-l-i-s Y-o-u-n-
g. I am a resident of the Fort Yates District and an elected
member of the Fort Yates Local District Planning Commission.
And I would like to welcome the Senator and thank him for
having a hearing in our community and here on Standing Rock.
From the onset the Fort Yates local district has
acknowledged the importance of effective plans, clear
accountability and grassroots tribal development in developing
and implementing the recovery program.
Our district has actively participated in the development
of the required tribal plan for implementation of the funds,
including the seven drafts of the plan that was approved by the
BIA in 2000. The Fort Yates community focused on the
development of the ordinance, as well, that ordinance having
been drafted several times and in fact still in the development
stages.
The key factor in the development of our plan is finance.
The Fort Yates community leaders are determined that equity
development finance will be a reality for our community and our
tribe. The district has strongly recommended that the EDFI,
Economic Development Finance Institute, not be included in the
ordinance so that a financial structure can be developed in its
proper context.
There are many community members who are still trying to
grasp this new technology finance. There are many members and
leaders who are trying to grasp the entire development of the
legislation. It has not been easy. It has not been timely. But
our time is here now. The Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Council
has approved $1.2 million for a Fort Yates housing plan that
will be reservationwide to begin healing and recovery through
home building. Hopefully this will be a yearly program to
rebuild the 197 homes destroyed in the flooding in 1960.
The Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Council has approved of an
additional million dollars which the Fort Yates local district
will use for a quilting project, $250,000, purchase lots and
facilities for business development, 189,500, an Economic
Development Finance Institute phase 1, which is $160,500.
The Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Council has approved $6
million for the Fort Yates District Oyate Wicha Ukini Project,
Re-awakening of the People, which fits in the social component
of the plan and the ordinance as adopted. The plan will be used
to bring the people up to standard living conditions as much as
possible, $3.5 million. And the Community Equity Development
Finance Institute, which may be a consolidated effort with the
tribe, but currently the plan is to craft a project that would
fit the needs of the Fort Yates District, $1.8 million, phase
2.
The Fort Yates local district appreciates the uniqueness of
Public Law 102-575 as it applies to Fort Berthold and Standing
Rock. As stated earlier, the Fort Yates community involved
itself in the development of plans and guidelines. It has been
a tremendous exercise of responsibility and self-help as the
Congress gave broad discretion to the development under this
act.
Senator Conrad and committee members, we thank you for your
interest and your continued support of the issues at Standing
Rock. For now we thank you and urge your support of our
projects, particularly Oyate Wicha Ukini, Re-awakening the
People, so that our people may live.
In closing, I would like to recommend that there be an
amendment so that the financing and the floating bonds can be a
reality, that there will be an amendment for accountability for
ourselves here at home and in the law that we all had dreams of
that became a reality. Thank you.
Mr. Clancy. Thank you, Phyllis.
STATEMENT OF SHANNON SILBERNAGEL, MEMBER, EXECUTIVE JTAC
COMMISSION
Ms. Silbernagel. Good afternoon. My name is Shannon
Silbernagel, S-h-a-n-n-o-n S-i-l-b-e-r-n-a-g-e-l. I am a member
of the Porcupine community. I'm also an Executive JTAC
Commission member. I sit on the Commission with Cedric Good
House.
I want to stress today that there is a need for the
oversight office to be put in place by the Standing Rock Sioux
Tribe. My concern is that there has been millions of dollars
allocated out and given to various groups of people. My concern
is that that money needs to be accounted for, that there needs
to be audits done. We as a commission have stressed this. We've
talked about it repeatedly.
And I am thankful that you people were able to come to the
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe today to hold these public hearings,
and hopefully we can get in place our oversight office, and
that's to ensure the accountability of how these dollars have
been spent. To date we don't know if there was a plan that was
submitted and if that plan has been followed in detail, we
don't know how those dollars have been expended. As a
commission member, I am concerned about that, as well as the
rest of the commission is. That's where the accountability
comes in.
I also want to stress that there are some positive things
that have come out of JTAC dollars. There was moneys given to
each district. I am from the Porcupine District. We are
striving forward. We have initiated a plan for that million
dollars. I am ensuring and working along with my district
people to ensure the accountability of those dollars.
We are moving forward, although I would like to see that
there be more equal access out there to the general public, to
the private person, a person coming in and wanting to set up
their own business, to create jobs on the reservation. I would
like to see more equal access. That to date has not been done
by our council, nor has any dollars been set aside so that
people can come in and start their own business, present a
legitimate plan to the tribe to start a business and employ
people. I have not seen that to date.
These are my concerns I share with you, the panel, today
and I would like to see that that oversight office is put in
place by the tribe to ensure that accountability. Thank you.
Mr. Clancy. Thank you, Shannon. Yes.
STATEMENT OF FRED WEIST, OWNER, GREY EAGLE MANAGEMENT
Mr. Wiest. My name is Fred Wiest, last name W-i-e-s-t. I am
the owner of Grey Eagle Management. I do financial management,
collections and things of that nature.
You know, I recently am one of those individuals that
secured a loan through the tribe to be able to expand my
business and go about pursuing defaulted loans that were--the
tribe had cosigned for or that they had approved to
individuals.
I guess I am really disheartened. The past couple of weeks
here I have been down to Sioux Falls, SD, down to Rapid City
and into Pierre visiting with attorneys, seeking out lawyers
that are a member of the Federal bar for a specific reason,
that I believe that myself and my company were violated in what
I understood to be a good-faith contract and agreement that I
had with the tribal council to collect delinquent loans.
I would like to enter for the record, Mr. Conrad's
information, you know, that I am looking at a letter that's
dated March 15, 2002, to Larry Luger regarding the tribal loan
programs that are delinquent and defaulted loans. And it's
written to Mr. Luger, a copy was provided to Chairman Murphy,
and it's by William Perry of the Sonosky Chambers Law Firm in
Washington, DC.
In essence this correspondence, which has been circulated
all over the reservation--I got a copy of this, was provided a
copy of this letter from an individual that lives in that
district, not even where I'm from. And I immediately the next
morning after receiving this--reviewing this letter went to
seek an attorney, as I mentioned.
In essence this letter states that there will probably be a
point in time where the tribe will be wiping off all these
loans. I'm not saying--there were statements here made that
possibly JTAC revenues were used for some of these loans. I'm
not saying that is to be the case or not, but in the event that
it is, the strategy is laid out in this letter, in this
communication, you know, that gives, you know, the individual
who decides not to pay a loan--payback the loan to the tribe,
gives them the strategy on how to defeat it in a courtroom
environment. And so it tells me, you know, that it's just a
wasted effort on my part.
You know, and if this were the case, then I think that Mr.
Conrad's office should see the seriousness of what's going on
there and immediately issue an injunction and freeze any
further draw-down of that money, and that any investigation
that comes out of the mismanagement of these moneys should be
done in concert with the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
And, furthermore, I think that the information that comes
out of this investigation should be made public and available
to the people of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, not just to a
select few, maybe a governing body. We have been in the dark
for too long. I think that if there were--if there was in fact
gross mismanagement of the tribal treasury, I think that we
have Mr. Conrad's sincerity that he should be sitting down
maybe when he's in Washington with the tribe's law firm and
finding out, getting down to the bottom of what's going on
here.
Mr. Clancy. Let's see if I understand what you have said.
You had a contract?
Mr. Wiest. I have an agreement with the tribe, as do my
company, as a collection agency to pursue delinquent loans.
Mr. Clancy. To make sure if loans were delinquent, that you
would----
Mr. Wiest. I would attempt to collect the money back for
the tribe, yes.
Mr. Clancy. And that has--that contract has never been
utilized because there were 100 percent guarantees provided
and, therefore, the loans have never gone into default?
Mr. Wiest. There was a variety of different types of loans.
What I'm saying, sir, is that if some of these loans were in
fact--if the bank notes were retired with JTAC money, I don't
know about that, you know, for a fact or not, but it would be
my job, you know, to go and attempt to collect back as much as
I can from these individuals that are in default or delinquent
status for the tribe.
Now, I think that there was a lot of politics played in the
whole process, anyway. I was always of the opinion that they
never sincerely wanted anybody to collect this money back. This
communication that I'm talking about, sir, practically outlines
to the individual who chooses to go into a delinquent status,
practically outlines the very strategy to use in tribal court
and get away without ever having to pay the money back. There
was a lot of implications in here.
I was prepared--in fact, we had some council members here
that were sitting here earlier today, last month I was prepared
to go full steam ahead and start to pursue this. And I asked to
be put on the agenda on his respective committee so I can make
a report on how I am going to do this and what I consider turn-
around times and stuff like that, then this communication was
given to me. Like I said, it's dated March 15. And I have taken
this and I have shown it to attorneys, and it's a very alarming
correspondence, very, very carefully written, choice of words,
and in essence it points out quite a few things, no policies in
place for the loans to even be granted, no application process,
no nothing, and then it goes on to state that he encourages
them to develop something immediately, you know, for any future
things. He cautions them about doing anything ex post facto,
and then he goes into the strategy that can be utilized to
defeat anyone--not just me, but anyone attempting to collect
these loans.
Mr. Clancy. So you are presenting this document for the
record?
Mr. Wiest. I will. I have got the clipping for the hearing,
sir. I will send a copy of this correspondence to Mr. Conrad's
office. My intention was today to follow Mr. Conrad back to
Bismarck. You know, I also want to meet with Jennifer Ring of
the Civil Liberties Office up there. But it's a serious concern
for me personally to see that this would come out in what I
thought was a good-faith agreement with the collect some of
this money.
Now, if it turns out so that some of this money was--some
of these bank notes were in fact retired with JTAC money and
these individuals getting away free and clear, it would confirm
something that I was told by the former Legal Aid attorney that
was in this area, who is now, I believe, working with the
state's attorney's office in South Dakota out of Rapid City,
and comments were made about money--loans that were going out
during the election. What that attorney advised--well, not
advised me, he encouraged me. I'm also an advocate in tribal
court for him. But he asked me to look at whether or not these
acts being committed by our elected officials, if I felt that
they constituted bribery, bribery of the people in order to
gain politically for themselves, put them in office. I did
never want to believe that, but it's appearing more and more to
me that that's in fact what happened.
I'm alarmed, you know, that I did something in good faith,
that I approached our government and asked to try to collect
this money back for our people. I'm alarmed that I may very
well be the only one that will be paying back my loan to the
tribe.
Mr. Clancy. Thank you for your testimony today.
Mr. Wiest. As I said, sir, I will quite possibly be up to
Mr. Conrad's office or your office probably tomorrow and I will
bring this document with me.
Mr. Clancy. Is there any more testimony?
STATEMENT OF ERROL MEDICINE, WAKPALA DISTRICT
Mr. Errol Medicine. My name is Errol Medicine, E-r-r-o-l,
Medicine, M-e-d-i-c-i-n-e. I'm one of the people from the
Wakpala District.
One of my main concerns is that we were the original people
that got flooded out along the Oahe. Originally where the
headquarters of the tribe is supposed to be is old agency along
there. And I feel that we as the people in Wakpala, we have
always been given what they say is the ``crummy end of the
stick.''
We have gotten what, that $4 million for the school to be
redone, and we badly need economic development for our people
down there to get involved along the Missouri River down there.
They know that South Dakota hardly gets anything. Like you
said, they want to hear nothing about the South Dakota side.
They moved the headquarters from Wakpala up to here
temporarily, and a lot of our people feel that we should move
it back to where it originally belonged because of the economic
sanctions, that we have got a lot of people in Wakpala.
That $1 million that we got so far is little or nothing to
what has happened to our people. I feel that the Wakpala
District should be compensated fully for what they have made
that town into, a ghost town--at one time it was a thriving
community--due to the flooding of the river.
Mr. Clancy. How is that planning process going on there in
that district?
Mr. Errol Medicine. Our planning process is going on pretty
good. One of the things that we have a problem with is that
they have given us an additional--we got $50,000 to do the
planning with, and when we got done with that, the $50,000--
because of the nature of getting the consultant, that $39,000,
that we expended our $50,000, you know, just in one shot
retaining our people. So our planning, we need more money for
planning to get an adequate job on planning. I feel like
$150,000 should be adequate, enough for all the districts to do
planning, because $50,000--you can't do nothing with $50,000 to
plan. To get your whole district involved and to get your
people behind you, you need like $150,000 to make wise
decisions, good decisions, thought out, well-planned decisions.
I feel like Mr. Chairman--Charlie Murphy is rushing
everybody's decisions to jump through these hoops to spend
these moneys and to go wild. I don't think that any of these
things that are going on that he's telling you is true because
I believe it's just a smoke screen to show you these things.
But we are also going to be sending you some of the things that
we feel is wrong in the Wakpala District. And we will be
sending those up to you, but we just wanted to let you know
right now that Wakpala, we feel as a district that we are one
of the main people that got a lot of stuff taken from us,
including the town. Like I said, Kenel got that $6 million
because they got moved up on top of the hill. Wakpala got--
totally lost everything. We should have got $6 million, too,
right off the top. We just got a measly $1 million. I feel that
we should be compensated just, too, with the $6 million.
Mr. Clancy. Thank you very much. Any further testimony?
STATEMENT OF CHASE IRON EYES
Mr. Iron Eyes. What's your name?
Mr. Clancy. My name is Lynn Clancy.
Mr. Iron Eyes. Lynn, how are you doing? My name is Chase
Iron Eyes. And, quite frankly, I don't see how whoever you
represent, you know, tries to, what do you call that, structure
or pretty much trying to say how we can spend money that's owed
to us, whether it be $90.6 million or $90.6 trillion, for
wrongs that were committed by your government like less than 60
years ago. So, I mean, just the interest we're drawing off of
this is just--you know, that's measly. But I guess--then on top
of that you're trying to tell us how we can spend that money,
when people are just working on home improvements, you know,
things like that. So maybe you want to take that back to
Senator Conrad. It would be very much appreciated, sir.
Mr. Clancy. Thank you for your remarks, and this will
conclude----
Mr. Iron Eyes. Oh, yes. And that fighting Sioux mascot
issue, that and the Redskins issue, I want to bring that up a
little more.
STATEMENT OF JANET HARRISON
Ms. Harrison. Good afternoon. My name is Janet Harrison, H-
a-r-r-i-s-o-n. And I'm from the Rock Creek District.
Mr. Clancy. It's Janet?
Ms. Harrison. Yes; I guess what I would like to see are, I
would like to recommend to Senator Conrad is that that I know
that you have heard everything about how this money has been
distributed or hasn't been distributed. I know that the
districts have different populations and according to that
there should be some set formula that needs to be developed on
how the money is distributed. As you heard, a couple of the
districts got $6 million and others got $1 million.
I am a descendant of some of the--my grandparents lost a
lot of land on that river. I would like to see some type of
formula that would be more equal for all of the districts. One
is not more important than the other. We're all having the same
kind of social and economic hardships as everybody else. And we
in Rock Creek, we live the furthest out. To get to Fort Yates
on a daily basis, a 54-mile trip. So you double that, that's
108 miles.
We are working on ourselves, our community. We're trying to
become self-sufficient on our own. We have begun that by having
our own cattle business. The JTAC funds come in. We're hoping
to expand, and we would rather do for ourselves than have
people give us handouts. We've worked hard for what we got and
we hope that Mr. Conrad looks at all the districts, what
they're doing, their plans, their detailed plans, their
budgets, et cetera, that some of those are using those
guidelines that are set forth in the JTAC Act, itself, to right
the wrongs, to not--I guess not to hurt the entire Tribe
because of a few items that are--seem to be focused at this
meeting. That's all I have to say.
Mr. Clancy. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF WILMA MEDICINE
Ms. Wilma Medicine. Hi. My name is Wilma Medicine, M-e-d-i-
c-i-n-e. I am just one of the people from the South Dakota
side. I am a single mother. I am trying to locate jobs and, if
I do, I have to go over to the Mobridge side.
Myself, I wanted to be here on behalf of my children and my
great-grandchildren about the school situation. Okay. I went
and applied as an assistant cook for the Wakpala School, and
there's only a handful, about three or four people, that are
Native American now that work in that school. I feel like I got
discriminated over there because there's a wasicu guy who had a
CDL license. And, myself, I was only applying for a cook's
position, not no bus drivers, and I feel like I have got
really--really got hurt out of this because now I am
unemployed. And I am only just a little person, I cannot feed
my children, but I see a lot of people up here getting money,
and I haven't got anything. I'm always looking for jobs for
myself to support my children.
And I feel that--myself, that Mr. Conrad should look into
more of the school and having Native American people work on
the South Dakota side for the people because it would show our
children that our children can look up to the elderlies,
myself, the older people and say, yes, we can be teachers, yes,
we can be cooks, yes, we can do this; but, no, we are always
the ones that always get left out. And me, myself, I just come
to let him know that I am just one of the many in poverty.
Thank you very much and you have a great day.
Mr. Clancy. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF JERALD KILLS PRETTY ENEMY
Mr. Kills Pretty Enemy. Thank you for allowing me to speak.
My name is Jerald Kills Pretty Enemy, J-e-r-a-l-d, K-i-l-l-s P-
r-e-t-t-y E-n-e-m-y. I guess I am a representative from the
Rock Creek District. I am a JTAC representative, as well as a
member of the tribe.
I guess my concern was the expenditures and the drawdowns,
as well as what was happening with the JTAC money. We as a JTAC
committee had from time to time been addressing and sending
letters to the chairman addressing a lot of different issues in
regards to JTAC because of our concern on how--what the process
and the procedure needs to be.
I, myself, hand-delivered an ordinance and the access plan,
as well as documents that we addressed this to the tribe to
Cora Jones. I, personally, took it to her office and had her
sign a form for me for proof that I had been to her office
addressing these things. So she is well aware of a lot of these
things that are going on here. And for her to sit here and make
things look so good, that she's not aware of it, to me sends a
real negative message to the people here. You know, something
needs to be done with her position because of the fact that I
don't believe, you know, we should have somebody representing
us in the Bureau and allowing this to happen, allowing this
allocation that we got and these draw-downs and this interest
money to happen.
These people are all well aware. They made it look really
good here from start. And I'm hoping that, you know, you hear
us. We sent a lot of information to Kent Conrad's office. He's
well aware of a lot of things that have been going on here. We
have been addressing it over and over time and time again.
And I believe there needs to be an injunction here, a full
investigation to stop all this. Last January we were suspended
as a JTAC advisory committee, but in reality back in September
2001 we were appointed to the JTAC Executive Commission. Back
then when the ordinance was approved of, that was not the
original ordinance that was approved of. So what we have here
is the ordinance and the access plan do not coincide with one
another.
And I think a lot of dissension has been created among all
of the people here on our reservation, you know, over this
money. And I'm glad to hear what Mr. Archambault had to share
with shows just what is happening here, what we need to do, our
leadership. Where is our leadership?
But my concern again goes back--reflects back to what has
happened with this money, the loans that have gone out and gets
written off, if it's to be.
Like I say, we were suspended and then we were put back
into office again, but, you know, there was a real negative
impact that was put upon us in the JTAC Commission as a body,
you know, making us look like we were the bad people. But we
didn't do nothing wrong. We didn't do nothing bad. We tried to
make it so that there was an opportune chance for our people to
equally access this money. And that has not been done.
The guidelines and everything that was sent down was not
there for the people. The process was not there. No policies
and procedures. They have taken all that responsibility away
from us. We have developed an administration. We have put a lot
together here to see to it that, you know, this was going to be
an equal opportunity for our people. That did not happen. And I
think you know something needs to happen here and I believe
myself that the Senate needs to intervene. People are well
aware. We know what's happening here. With that I thank you.
Mr. Clancy. Thank you very much. Yes.
STATEMENT OF LYNES END OF HORN, BEAR SOLDIER DISTRICT
Mr. End of Horn. Good day, sir. My name is Lynes End of
Horn. I am presently from the Bear Soldier District. I wasn't
aware of this forum taking place, and I was up in Bismarck, but
I hurried back and here I am.
What I did--you have heard the people of Standing Rock
voice their opinion. Prior to this, sir, the first part of
March of this year I took a survey, I passed a survey out, and
this survey went into five national newspapers, and the
response of the survey was 1876 enrolled members of Standing
Rock living on and off the reservation.
One of the biggest concerns on the responses, sir, is that
these people that do not live on the reservation, where is
their money going to? Their heads are counted here, but their
money is not going to them.
But, again, on the other hand, an example in Grand Forks,
ND, we have 18 college students, 8 of them get money, but the
others don't. We also have men in the military. Where is their
money going to? We also have children that are in foster homes.
They left here years ago as a foster--adopted or orphaned
child, but they're not getting money and their heads are
counted here. That is the theme question.
And I am not pointing fingers. I am going to leave a copy
of this survey and the response with you. I have mailed one to
Senator Dorgan's office, Senator Conrad's. Everybody that I can
think of that's a congressional person I have mailed this to
them, so it should be in their office, but I want to leave this
with you for you to look at.
Whatever is happening here, we are all to blame, sir. We
have elected these people. We have put these people in a
position to be responsible to us, the Indian people, but it is
not turning out that way. So with that, I'm going to leave this
with you, and I want--I would like you to read it over and
discuss this with your congressional people, and if you would
respond to me. My address is on here. My phone number is on
here. I am concerned. I am a retired teacher, I'm an ex-
serviceman, and I'm 100 percent service-connected disabled.
All these years I have been here there was only one time,
sir, I have held a job at Standing Rock Sioux Tribe. I made a
statement, that following month--that following Friday, I was
terminated. So within the past 23 years I was never employed on
my own reservation. As of now I don't have a home on Standing
Rock. I have been number one on the list with housing for the
last 15 years. The comment I got and the letters I get, you get
a house this spring. Fifteen springs went by. I haven't gotten
my house yet. I have applied--last year I've made 18
applications to the tribe. I was rejected on every job. I am
well-qualified, I'm well-papered, I'm experienced, but I have
not been satisfied with anything that is happening on my
reservation up to now.
So is the reason that this survey went out. And I think
when you read this survey, you will understand what all of
these people that are talking about, you will understand. This
survey comes from people both on and off the reservation,
college students, military men and children that are foster or
orphan children, elderly, young and old, sir.
With that, thank you. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Clancy. Thank you very much. I would appreciate it if
you just leave it there, I can pick it up. I think we have come
to the conclusion here. Yes.
Audience member. What is the address to submit the written
documentation?
Mr. Clancy. To Senator Kent Conrad's office, and that can
be in his Bismarck office, which is Room 228, Federal Building,
220 East Rosser, Bismarck, ND 58501. Yes.
STATEMENT OF MAXINE WHITE BULL, KENEL DISTRICT
Ms. White Bull. My name is Maxine White Bull, W-h-i-t-e B-
u-l-l. I'm from the Kenel District. And we are the ones that
had to move--the whole town had to move out. And I was there.
And very few of us are left that live there. But we lost a lot.
We had our livelihood there. And I could remember things as I
grew up.
The things that are going on now like drugs, alcohol affect
all our people. We didn't hardly have those in those days when
we were living there. There was nothing. Of course, we didn't
have no money or anything, but it seemed like the people got
along better, you know. We all helped each other. Something was
always going on.
And one of the things I was concerned about, I sat in a lot
of meetings at the tribal council just listening, people
arguing about money since this JTAC money came out. I'm sitting
there thinking that the things they mentioned was--you know,
because we were the first ones, I guess, we asked--we put in a
budget. The first JTAC committee was formed, they said all you
needed was a budget, what our needs were and come up with
something, so we did, and we were turned down the first time,
so we--one of our councilmen, this was 1998, I think, he pulled
it through for us through the council. That was for $6 million.
We still have that plan in place. And we never spent any--the
million, and the $5 million we invested or we put in CDs. It's
in a bank, but we have not spent any of it. But we have our
plans in place.
And one of the things we always heard, you know, Why did
Kenel get $6 million? I got here late so I don't know what went
on in the first part, so I didn't hear what was said, but that
really hurts me when I hear that. And they left us out on that
million that they gave out, plus $50,000 was allowed each
district for the JTAC planning. We were left out, but we got
that again later on.
But why are they saying this when we lost the most? And I
tell people, if it wasn't for us, you know, you wouldn't be
fighting over this money. We were the ones that were supposed
to be compensated and we didn't get compensated enough. And
there's a few of us left that have moved out to other districts
or completely moved out because there's no jobs now. They live
in the cities, they're enrolled here, and they're being left
out. I think this was brought out by some of the people that
talked here.
Mr. Clancy. So is the Kenel plan being followed?
Ms. White Bull. Yes.
Mr. Clancy. Are you making some progress with it?
Ms. White Bull. Right now we have purchased some cattle and
we are going into that business, so the last 2, 3 years we have
that business. And there's other plans that are coming up that
we're going to pursue.
So that's all I wanted to say. But I think that's really
wrong, because someone said, you know, it will take more than
$20 million to get what we had before, stores, schools,
sawmill, what all we lost there, ball fields. People got
around, you know, recreation. So those things we lost, but they
bring that up and that makes me mad.
Now the other districts are asking for more, and I think
they're getting it. So I said maybe we should ask for more,
too, to replace what we had. That's all I want to say. And
education is the most important thing because right now the
students are suffering. Some can't get funded, they have to
quit. And what's there to come back to on this reservation?
There's nothing. Thank you.
Mr. Clancy. Very good. Well, again, thank you all for being
here and being a part of this hearing today. Senator Conrad is
very appreciative of your participation. As we work together to
develop the common good for this reservation, we hope that this
program, this economic recovery program can make a big
difference and help to build up the people in this area.
Thank you for being here.
[Whereupon, at 2:02 p.m., the committee was adjourned, to
reconvene at the call of the Chair.]
=======================================================================
A P P E N D I X
----------
Additional Material Submitted for the Record
=======================================================================
Prepared Statement of Cora Jones, Director, Great Plains Regional
Office, BIA, Department of the Interior
Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee. My name is
Cora Jones and I am the Director for the Bureau of Indian Affairs'
(BIA) Great Plains Regional Office. I am pleased to be here today to
discuss the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe's Economic Recovery Fund
provisions of Title XXXV of Public Law 102-575, the ``Three Affiliated
Tribes and Standing Rock Sioux Tribe Equitable Compensation Act,'' an
Act to ensure that the Three Affiliated Tribes of Fort Berthold and the
Standing Rock Sioux Tribe were adequately compensated for the taking of
Indian lands for the site of the Garrison Dam and reservoir, and the
Oahe Dam and Reservoir, and for other purposes.
The Act established the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe's Economic
Recovery Fund in the United States Treasury. In fiscal year 1993, the
U.S. Treasury began making annual deposits into the Economic Recovery
Fund, as required under the Act, until it was fully capitalized at
$90.6 million. While this principal is retained in the U.S. Treasury,
the Tribe is authorized to use the interest earned for educational,
social welfare, economic development, and other programs, subject to
the approval of the Secretary. In fiscal year 1998, the Tribe could
begin withdrawing the accrued and annual interest subject to approval
of the Secretary. This approval authority is delegated to the BIA's
Regional Director for the Great Plains Regional Office.
On June 16, 2000, I approved the ``Standing Rock Sioux Tribe's
Joint Tribal Advisory Committee Fund Access Plan''(Plan). This Plan,
established in consultation with tribal members and the BIA, outlines
the Tribe's proposed uses for the interest generated from the principal
amount in the Fund. The Tribe submits requests for withdrawing funds to
the Regional Director through the Standing Rock Agency. These requests
are reviewed for compliance with the Act and consistency with the Plan.
When the BIA approves a request, it is forwarded to the Special
Trustee's Office of Trust Funds Management in Albuquerque, New Mexico,
for final processing and payment. Thus far, the Tribe has requested and
received six payments totaling $46.3 million in interest.
Any funding request outside the Plan will require approval by the
Regional Director.
This concludes my prepared statement. I will be happy to answer any
questions the Committee may have.
______
Prepared Statement of Ronald Sun McNeil, President, Sitting Bull
College
I am Ronald Sun McNeil, President of Sitting Bull College. I am
grateful and thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony on
Public Law 102-575 and its implementation on the Standing Rock Sioux
Indian Reservation.
I will focus on the planning process and compliance with Public Law
102-575, and then on the implementation of the plan approved by the
Bureau of Indian Affairs [BIA] in 1998.
The planning process, though not funded by BIA, was lengthy,
stalled at one point, but eventually through a collaboration with
Tribal Administration and Sitting Bull College [SBC] a plan was
submitted and approved by the BIA in July 1998.
The process began in 1996 under Chairman Jesse Taken Alive's
administration with a tribal appropriation of $100,000. The Tribal
Council created an advisory committee of eight members elected by each
district, the Tribal Economic Recovery Fund Committee (TERF). The TERF
Committee met over the course of approximately 1-year and developed
five (5) categories of funding. The TERF Committee had local input
through its elected members, guidance from a consultant, and occasional
assistance from the tribal attorney in framing the categories to stay
within the requirements of the act.
The TERF Committee eventually exhausted its tribal appropriation
and Chairman Taken Alive requested assistance from the BIA, but none
was provided. With no additional funding and pending tribal elections
(primary elections-July 1997), the TERF Committee recommendations and
the process was stalled.
In October 1997, SBC approached the newly elected Tribal Chairman,
Charles Murphy with a proposal to match funding that SBC had acquired
from the Ford Foundation, to recreate the TERF Committee, and hire a
consultant to continue the planning process. The Tribal Council
approved a $15,000 match, and approximately nine (9) months later,
after numerous committee meetings and public forums, the Tribal Council
approved the Access Plan.
The plan expanded the original five (5) recommended categories of
funding to six (6), and established a framework of procedures with
which the allocated interest funds would be distributed. This Plan was
submitted to the BIA for approval.
The Access Plan established a process but the implementation, once
approved by the BIA, has been flawed and the BIA has failed to monitor
compliance with the procedures outlined in the framework of the Plan.
The Tribal Council under heavy pressure by its constituents to fund
the approved categories began by approving to appropriate interest
income for the purchase of lands. The Tribe has purchased over 80,000
acres of land within the reservation boundaries; of which 50,000 acres
increased the economic viability of the Tribe. In and of itself the
land purchase was a good tribal investment, which increases the tribal
land-base, lending to its future economic stability.
However, since the fund was accessed without a strategic plan in
place on the d? of the individual fund and there needs to be addressed
and since no JTAC oversight office nor JTAC business advisory board was
created as requested by the Plan, it set in place a procedure driven by
Tribal Council action without relation to an overall strategic plan or
budget.
The Tribal Council was then met with an urgent request to assist
with the building of a sorely needed public school in the Wakpala
District of the reservation. Also, SBC was engaged in raising funds for
the development of a new college campus, The Tribe gave to both of
these efforts $2 million and $4 million respectively. Again, although
both are needed for the education and future stability of the Tribe and
both can show matching funding and strategic plans as required by the
Access Plan, neither was required to do so to receive funding, nor had
the Tribe established the oversight office or the advisory board.
Once the precedent of giving to educational institutions was
established, the Tribal Council received over $20 million worth of
requests from other educational institutions across the reservation.
The Tribal Council approved the requests 1 month and then rescinded
their actions the following month when it became apparent that the
total requests would exceed the total accumulated interest.
A similar precedent was established when the Tribal Council
approved a $6 million request to Kenel District from the District's
Economic Development Fund. The request from the District, which was
hardest hit from the flooding of any community, was also funded without
regard for a strategic plan from the District or from the tribal
committee designated to do so. The Tribe has since received similar
requests from other. tribal districts and has now planned to allocate
$6 million for each district from future accumulated interest revenue.
Since the Tribe has seen the demand by the other education
institutions and districts, it has now begun requiring the Districts to
provide strategic plans for future development, proposals, and an
accounting of the use of those funds actually distributed.
The Tribe has now put together a JTAC Committee to establish a
strategic implementation plan for funding allocation to each category
as well as establishing the oversight office and hopefully the Business
Advisory Board.
It should be noted that during the planning process, and even
today, those committee members and the Tribal Council has faced extreme
criticism for not providing for per capita payments, nor for additional
compensation to individuals who lost land during the flooding. Congress
would be wise to address the issue of equitable treatment of those
individuals in the future.
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