[House Hearing, 109 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] POROUS BORDERS AND DOWNSTREAM COSTS: THE COST OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ON STATE, COUNTY AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ======================================================================= HEARING before the COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION __________ AUGUST 14, 2006 __________ Serial No. 109-188 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Government Reform Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/ index.html http://www.house.gov/reform ______ U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 30-527 WASHINGTON : 2006 _____________________________________________________________________________ For Sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; (202) 512�091800 Fax: (202) 512�092250 Mail: Stop SSOP, Washington, DC 20402�090001 COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM TOM DAVIS, Virginia, Chairman CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut HENRY A. WAXMAN, California DAN BURTON, Indiana TOM LANTOS, California ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida MAJOR R. OWENS, New York JOHN M. McHUGH, New York EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York JOHN L. MICA, Florida PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania GIL GUTKNECHT, Minnesota CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland STEVEN C. LaTOURETTE, Ohio DENNIS J. KUCINICH, Ohio TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois CHRIS CANNON, Utah WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee DIANE E. WATSON, California CANDICE S. MILLER, Michigan STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland DARRELL E. ISSA, California LINDA T. SANCHEZ, California JON C. PORTER, Nevada C.A. DUTCH RUPPERSBERGER, Maryland KENNY MARCHANT, Texas BRIAN HIGGINS, New York LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of PATRICK T. McHENRY, North Carolina Columbia CHARLES W. DENT, Pennsylvania ------ VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont JEAN SCHMIDT, Ohio (Independent) BRIAN P. BILBRAY, California David Marin, Staff Director Lawrence Halloran, Deputy Staff Director Teresa Austin, Chief Clerk Phil Barnett, Minority Chief of Staff/Chief Counsel C O N T E N T S ---------- Page Hearing held on August 14, 2006.................................. 1 Statement of: Becerra, Hon. Xavier, a Representative in Congress from the State of California........................................ 5 Unzueta, Miguel, Special Agent in Charge of San Diego SAC, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement; William B. Kolender, sheriff, San Diego County; Bill Horn, chairman, San Diego Board of Supervisors; Steven A. Escoboza, president and CEO, Hospital Association of San Diego and Imperial County; Denise Moreno Ducheny, State Senator, 40th District, San Diego, CA; and Bronwen Anders, professor of pediatrics, University of California at San Diego, former president, San Diego Chapter, American Academy of Pediatrics................................................. 12 Anders, Bronwen.......................................... 53 Ducheny, Denise Moreno................................... 46 Escoboza, Steven A....................................... 38 Horn, Bill............................................... 34 Kolender, William B...................................... 28 Unzueta, Miguel.......................................... 12 Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by: Anders, Bronwen, professor of pediatrics, University of California at San Diego, former president, San Diego Chapter, American Academy of Pediatrics, prepared statement of......................................................... 55 Davis, Chairman Tom, a Representative in Congress from the State of Virginia, prepared statement of................... 3 Dreier, Hon. David, a Representative in Congress from the State of California, prepared statement of................. 7 Ducheny, Denise Moreno, State Senator, 40th District, San Diego, CA, prepared statement of........................... 50 Escoboza, Steven A., president and CEO, Hospital Association of San Diego and Imperial County, prepared statement of.... 41 Horn, Bill, chairman, San Diego Board of Supervisors, prepared statement of...................................... 36 Kolender, William B., sheriff, San Diego County, prepared statement of............................................... 31 Unzueta, Miguel, Special Agent in Charge of San Diego SAC, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, prepared statement of............................................... 15 POROUS BORDERS AND DOWNSTREAM COSTS: THE COST OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ON STATE, COUNTY AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ---------- MONDAY, AUGUST 14, 2006 House of Representatives, Committee on Government Reform, San Diego, CA. The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 11 a.m., at the San Diego county Administration Center, room 310 and 410, 1600 Pacific Highway, San Diego, CA, Hon. Tom Davis (chairman of the committee) presiding. Present: Representative Tom Davis. Also present: Representative Becerra. Staff present: Larry Halloran, deputy staff director; Teresa Austin, chief clerk; Stephen Castor, counsel; Allyson Blandford, office manager; and Michael McCarthy, minority professional staff member. Chairman Tom Davis. Good morning. The committee will come to order. I want to welcome our guests to today's hearing. Porous borders exact a high price. Ineffective immigration enforcement undermines respect for law. It threatens national security. The steady flow of illegal immigration also passes unpredictable and largely unreimbursed costs on to States and counties already struggling to maintain safe, healthy, and prosperous communities. That de facto unfunded mandate is draining local law enforcement, health care, and education budgets. Today we're convening in San Diego to learn more about the intergovernmental impact of illegal immigration and to discuss the urgent need for enhanced border security. We particularly want to hear local assessments of efforts to strengthen enforcement in what is called the internal border where undocumented aliens apply for work, official documents, and public benefits. As the people of this area know only too well, no effort to harden or patrol the international boundary will ever be 100 percent effective. And those who enter legally but subsequently violate the terms of their visa should be detected and detained by vigilant internal enforcement systems. So we asked our witnesses this morning to give us the benefit of their experience and their guidance regarding the costs of illegal immigration and effective ways to limit those costs. The current failure of enforcement is being felt throughout the Nation as the tide of undocumented aliens swells well beyond the six traditional settlement States of California, New York, Texas, Florida, Illinois, and New Jersey. As of last April, legislatures in 43 States considered bills on immigration issues. Attempting to fill the vacuum left by earnest but hopelessly understaffed Federal efforts, States sought to control access to education and other public benefits, strengthen employment verification, punish human trafficking, strengthen eligibility requirements for identifying documents and voting, and coordinating law enforcement. County governments and mayors have similarly taken steps to regain some control over their fiscal fate. Obviously, when Washington fails to exercise sovereign control over what is pouring into the national melting pot, States, counties, and cities feel the heat. Although difficult to quantify precisely, the impact of illegal immigration on State, county, and city budgets is undeniably growing. According to one estimate, those without a legal right to be here generate net fiscal costs approaching $10 billion nationally. The State of California is reported to have spent almost $3 billion in a single year providing services to illegal immigrants. By one estimate, the county of San Diego spends more than $50 million a year to arrest, jail, prosecute, and defend illegal immigrants. Of that, Federal reimbursement covers only about $2 million. The health care system, already under severe strain, risks being swamped by a continuing flood of uninsured illegal immigrants, many of whom use hospital emergency rooms for primary care. Federal law requires emergency medical departments to treat everyone. The national costs of such mandated free health services exceeds $1 billion annually. This year Federal reimbursements will cover only one quarter of that total. States, counties, and cities have a right to expect that fiscal security will only come when the Federal Government focuses on effective border security. Decades-long neglect of the sovereign responsibility to adequately police national boundaries and enforce national laws has transferred immense burdens downstream to local taxpayers. Any serious immigration reform must take account of those ingovernmental impacts and protect States and localities from fiscal shockwaves. From that perspective, effective external and internal enforcement programs are essential prerequisites to broader immigration reforms. Otherwise, any new immigration law will suffer the fate of the last effort 20 years ago when good intentions were overwhelmed by weak follow through. When your basement's flooding, you plug the leaks first, and then you start the remodeling job. Plugging our porous immigration system using Federal dollars will free States and counties to focus on their core responsibilities: To protect the health and safety of all those seeking to build a better community. This morning, we're going to hear testimony from six witnesses. Each of them brings a depth of experience and insight on this important discussion, and we look forward to their testimony. And without objection, the gentleman from California's 31st District, Mr. Becerra, will sit with the committee today. [The prepared statement of Chairman Tom Davis follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.001 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.002 Chairman Tom Davis. And, Mr. Becerra, you're recognized for an opening statement. Thank you for being with us. STATEMENT OF HON. XAVIER BECERRA, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA Mr. Becerra. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for allowing me to sit. And thank you for being here. I want to thank in advance the witnesses who will testify for their participation. And certainly, we want to thank all those who have taken the interest in being here as well on an issue that most of us consider very important. Nobody questions that immigration by undocumented immigrants creates costs for States and local governments, costs that are most severe here in the State of California. But we can't lose sight of the other side of the ledger as well as talk about this issue, the benefits that immigrants bring to our local economies and our local communities. [Audience boos and hisses.] Mr. Becerra. A thorough examination of immigration policy requires consideration of the overall impact of immigration and immigrants on America, and that means looking at both the costs and the benefits. That is why I believe we need effective comprehensive immigration reform that addresses both costs and benefits, not just a one-sided enforcement only approach. In their prepared testimony, our witnesses describe very persuasively the costs that immigration creates for local law enforcement and health care. These problems are real, but unfortunately, they are not new. They can be traced back to the failures of our Federal immigration policy. Failure to recognize the demand for immigrant labor in our economy, failure of the Federal Government to fund the needs of State and local government, failure of the Federal Government to repay State and local governments for unfunded mandates, and the failure to secure our borders. In short, Mr. Chairman, our immigration system is broken and the Federal Government has failed to respond. Congress has an obligation to enact practical, effective immigration reform and to do it now. This is the third hearing in the House---- [Audience cheers and applauds.] Chairman Tom Davis. Please. You're our guests here. We're happy to have you here, but we don't want you interrupting the speakers in debate. Go ahead, Mr. Becerra. Mr. Becerra. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is I believe the third hearing that's being held here in San Diego on the part of the House of Representatives. And it's a hearing to discuss a bill that the House has already passed. I want us to think about this for just a second. The House of Representatives back in December 2005 passed legislation to change our immigration laws, the Senate back in July did the same, and today, we're holding a hearing. Throughout this month we're holding any number of hearings--I believe it's about 21 hearings, the House of Representatives will be holding throughout the Nation. And we're holding them after the bill has already been passed. That's very similar to a parachutist saying that he's going to jump from a plane and pack his parachute after he's jumped. You have to look before you leap. In this case, the House of Representatives leapt back in December 2005, and now we're being told let's take a look. That's not the way you make policy. We don't need more hearings, we need action. Instead of spending the summer on a taxpayer-funded traveling hearing or press conference, the House should be working with the Senate to pass effective bipartisan immigration reform. We need practical, comprehensive reforms that secure our Nation's homeland, recognize the role of immigration in our economy and our communities, and does credit to America's creed as the land of opportunity. Mr. Chairman, I'm pleased to be here. I look forward to the testimony, and I hope before we conclude this session of the House of Representatives and the Senate come late September, early October that we will have a bill that's comprehensive in its approach to immigration reform that the President will sign and move this Nation forward. Yield back. Chairman Tom Davis. All right. Thank you very much, Mr. Becerra. And again, failure of Congress to act means the status quo. That continues to mean unfunded mandates on State and local governments. I'd ask unanimous consent to insert into the record a statement by Representative David Dreier of California without objection. [The prepared statement of Hon. David Dreier follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.003 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.004 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.005 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.006 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.007 Chairman Tom Davis. Now, Members will have 7 days to submit opening statements for the record. I'm going to now recognize our panel of witnesses: Mr. Miguel Unzueta, the Special Agent in Charge of San Diego SAC, U.S. Customs and Immigration Enforcement; Mr. William Kolender, the sheriff, San Diego County; Supervisor Bill Horn, the chairman of the San Diego Board of Supervisors; Mr. Steven A. Escoboza, the president and CEO of the Hospital Association of San Diego and Imperial Counties; State Senator Denise Moreno Ducheny, the 40th District, thank you very much for being with us, Senator; and Dr. Bronwen Anders, who is a professor of pediatrics at the University of California at San Diego and former president of San Diego Chapter of American Academic of Pediatrics. It's a policy of our committee that we swear all witnesses before you testify. So if you'd just rise with me and raise your right hands. [Witnesses sworn.] Chairman Tom Davis. Senator, I know you have to catch a plane and be out of here no later than 12:15. So I think we will get to you in plenty of time, but hopefully the hearing won't take too long and we can get through some questions with you as well. I will start, Mr. Unzueta, with you, and we will move straight down. We have a light, I think, in front of you that goes orange after 4 minutes and red after 5. I think that's correct. Try to keep it to 5 minutes. Your entire statement is in the record and the questions that we've prepared at least based on the entire statement that we put in the record. So if we can keep to 5 minutes, we can move this along. Thank you very much for being with us, and thank you for your service to the country. STATEMENTS OF MIGUEL UNZUETA, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE OF SAN DIEGO SAC, U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT; WILLIAM B. KOLENDER, SHERIFF, SAN DIEGO COUNTY; BILL HORN, CHAIRMAN, SAN DIEGO BOARD OF SUPERVISORS; STEVEN A. ESCOBOZA, PRESIDENT AND CEO, HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION OF SAN DIEGO AND IMPERIAL COUNTY; DENISE MORENO DUCHENY, STATE SENATOR, 40TH DISTRICT, SAN DIEGO, CA; AND BRONWEN ANDERS, PROFESSOR OF PEDIATRICS, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT SAN DIEGO, FORMER PRESIDENT, SAN DIEGO CHAPTER, AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS STATEMENT OF MIGUEL UNZUETA Mr. Unzueta. Thank you, Chairman Davis and Congressman Becerra. It's an honor for me to appear before you today representing U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement [ICE], to discuss our efforts in combating illegal immigration within the interior of the United States, specifically in the areas of work site enforcement and document fraud. ICE's current work site enforcement strategy is part of a comprehensive layered approach that focuses on how illegal aliens get into our country, the ways in which they obtain identity documents allowing them to become employed, and the employers who knowingly hire them. ICE is bringing criminal prosecutions and using asset forfeiture as tools against employers of unauthorized workers rather than to rely upon administrative fines as sanctions against such activity. Using this approach, ICE work site investigations now support felony charges and not just the traditional misdemeanor work site violations. Of course, a key component of our work site enforcement efforts targets the businesses and industries that deliberately profit from the wholesale employment of unauthorized workers. In April 2006, ICE conducted the largest work site enforcement operation ever undertaken. This case involved IFCO Systems, a Houston based pallet supply company. ICE agents executed 9 Federal arrest warrants, 11 search warrants, and 41 consent searches at IFCO work site locations throughout the United States. In addition, ICE agents apprehended 1,187 unauthorized workers at IFCO work sites. This coordinated enforcement operation also involved investigative agents-- agents from the--and officers from the Department of Labor, the Social Security Administration, the Internal Revenue Service, and the New York State Police. The criminal defendants have been charged with conspiracy to transport and harbor unlawful aliens for financial gain as well as fraud and misuse of immigration documents. ICE has launched several investigations to enhance national security and public safety here in California and throughout the Nation. Operations Tarmac and Glowworm are national initiatives focused on securing the Nation's airports and nuclear facilities respectively, including such facilities here in California. Operation Safe Cities, as an ICE initiative, started in December 2003 to identify and remove unauthorized employees from critical infrastructure businesses and facilities in the San Diego area including military installations, airports, nuclear facilities, and hazardous material transportation companies. This initiative includes an outreach program to educate employers on how--the law and its requirements with regard to employing foreign nationals in the United States. To date, Safe Cities has resulted in the review of more than 1,200 businesses in critical infrastructure industries and the removal of 537 unauthorized employees from businesses and facilities, including Camp Pendleton, the San Diego Airport, Amtrak, the San Onofre nuclear reactor, Northrop Grumman, several naval air stations, and others. These and other nationwide critical infrastructure operations demonstrate how ICE is using immigration laws to remove potential threats from California and from our Nation's most sensitive facilities. Because the vast majority of employers do their best to comply with the law, ICE has developed the Mutual Agreement between Government and Employers [IMAGE]. A new voluntary corporate outreach program aimed at strengthening overall hiring practices in the workplace, this outreach program emphasizes enhanced employer compliance through corporate due diligence, training, and the sharing of best practices. It also provides employers with a comprehensive tool to avoid immigration violations within their own company, and to impact their industry and change the culture of tolerance for those who employ illegal workers. Despite these efforts, the growing prevalence of counterfeit documents interferes with the ability of legitimate employers to hire lawful workers. In short, the employment process cannot continue to be tainted by the widespread use and acceptance of fraudulent identification documents. Many of our investigations uncover fraud violations linked to other Federal, State, and local crimes. Over the past several years, the number of benefit fraud and document fraud investigations launched by ICE has increased, so have the number of criminal indictments, arrests, and convictions in these areas. Given our broad ICE authorities, ICE is in a unique position to investigate these cases and successfully prosecute the perpetrators. In April 2006, ICE announced the creation of 11 new Document and Benefit Fraud task forces as one of the primary methods to eliminate vulnerabilities within the immigration process. Modeled after and built upon the successes of the Eastern District of Virginia Immigration and Visa Fraud Task Force, the Document and Benefit Fraud task forces detect, deter, and disrupt criminal organization and individuals that pose a threat to national security and public safety through the use of documents and benefit fraud schemes. The task forces are built on strong partnerships with prosecutors from the Department of Justice as well as Federal, State, and local law enforcement officers. ICE has formally announced these task forces in Atlanta, Boston, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Los Angeles, Newark, New York, Saint Paul, Washington, and Washington, DC. ICE is dedicated to this mission. Thank you for inviting me, and I'll be happy to answer your questions. Chairman Tom Davis. Thank you very much. [The prepared statement of Mr. Unzueta follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.008 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.009 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.010 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.011 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.012 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.013 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.014 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.015 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.016 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.017 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.018 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.019 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.020 Chairman Tom Davis. Sheriff, thanks for being with us. STATEMENT OF WILLIAM B. KOLENDER Mr. Kolender. Mr. Chairman, good morning and thank you for giving me the opportunity to appear before this committee and provide testimony regarding the specific impact of illegal immigration on local law enforcement. As the chief law enforcement officer of this county and with nearly 50 years of law enforcement experience, I know firsthand that illegal immigration has plagued local law enforcement and this county for decades. Although many illegal border crossers enter our country in search of employment, some of them do commit crimes in the county and end up in our jails. The cost of staff hours, equipment, and administrative work associated with the detention and/or arrest of undocumented foreign-born citizens is difficult to approximate, but the figures are in the millions. Without full-time immigration staffing in our jails, we don't know the true impact that illegal immigration has on our county. Currently, jail personnel notify immigration officials of all persons who are booked in jail who claim non U.S. citizenship or who are foreign born. Their fingerprints are then compared against a Federal data base to help determine the immigration status. Immigration authorities place holds on these individuals suspected of being here illegally, and the jails coordinate their release to immigration officials when their local case has been concluded. That process has been carried on successfully for more than 4,400 times in the last 12 months. An interesting statistic, though, shows that over an 18- month period, 25 percent of the individuals deported after incarceration not only reenter this country, but reenter our jails at least once, some as many as five times. It is important, therefore, to recognize that as long as the border remains porous, efforts like ours will have very limited results. San Diego's law enforcement officers do not arbitrarily stop individuals solely on suspicion of immigration status while patrolling the streets of our county. There must be a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. If there is no probable cause to arrest a subject, the officer will complete a field interview report and release the individual. However, if in the course of an investigation an officer or deputy sheriff determines that the subject's immigration status is in question, the Border Patrol will be notified and asked to respond. If the Border Patrol can respond in a reasonable amount of time, the law enforcement officer will remain with the subject until their arrival. At that time, the officer will relinquish control of the subject to the Border Patrol. In preparation for today's hearing I contacted all of the police chiefs in this county as well as my own patrol station commanders for their impact concerning the illegal immigration on their departments and command areas. The responses were similar and addressed a common theme. Illegal immigration impacts the delivery of law enforcement services in this county, affecting calls for service, the crime rate, and our budgets. Some of the more commonly reported crimes include: Auto theft: Cars are stolen and used for transportation. Most illegal immigrants arrive in this county without transportation and without the means to purchase a vehicle. Public drunkenness: This is common throughout the county, and sometimes leads to calls for disturbing the peace. Domestic violence: Many illegal immigrants come from countries where violence against woman is accepted or at least tolerated. Some bring this attitude and behavior to the United States. Robbery: Illegal immigrants commit robberies, but they are also victims since they normally carry only cash. Traffic offenses: Drunk driving and hit-and-run accidents frequently involve unlicensed drivers, and many of these drivers are illegal immigrants. Recently, during a law enforcement operation in North County, over 100 vehicles were towed for a variety of vehicle code violations, and the vast majority were driven by those believed to be illegal immigrants. Frequent calls for service involve loitering and suspicious activity, most of which are the result of illegal immigrants congregating in large numbers. Day laborers and their encampments also impact law enforcement. Residents who fear crime and resent the perceived devaluation of their property oftentimes call the Department. Aggressive solicitation for work, drinking in public, and day laborers using parking lots as restrooms are among some of the calls that we receive. Many encampments are remotely located, and contacting people living in these camps requires multiple officer response. The day laborer problems in the city of Vista were so severe that the City Council recently enacted an ordinance to deal with the issues. Gang activity among illegal immigrants is also a big problem. According to my gang enforcement unit, nearly 25 to 40 percent of local gangs are comprised of illegal immigrants. In North County, nearly 80 percent of the gang related crimes involve illegal immigrants either as suspects or as victims. Significant financial resources in dealing with protests and counter protests related to illegal immigration have also impacted law enforcement in this county. In 2005, our Department alone spent almost $500,000 to provide a presence at the various pro and anti-immigration demonstrations. The majority of the border between San Diego County and Mexico lies within the Sheriff's rural law enforcement command. Much of the illegal immigrant and narcotic smuggling comes from this area through Mexico. And many of the dealers or end users are in fact illegal immigrants. Residential and vehicle thefts in this area can be attributed to either illegal immigrants themselves or the smugglers guiding them across the border. Often, illegal immigrants will work off a portion of their payment for being smuggled into the United States by carrying narcotics. We estimate that as much as 50 percent of the crime that occurs in communities immediately adjacent to the U.S. Border, Mexican border such as Campo, Boulevard, and Jacumba, is committed by illegal immigrants. The rural command does not have 24-hour staffing. Resident deputies are called from their homes from 911 prowler calls occurring into the late night or early morning hours. These calls require that two deputies respond and, more often than not, illegal immigrants crossing through this area are the culprits. Both Border Patrol and Customs routinely turn over illegal immigrants to the Sheriff's department that are found to have outstanding warrants from their prior visit to the United States. Illegal immigrants sometimes become the victims of crimes. They are robbed, assaulted, kidnapped, and held for payment by family members, raped, and murdered. We have seen cases of false reporting of crimes where illegal immigrants claim to be crime victims so they won't immediately be deported. The Sheriff's department frequently receives calls to rescue illegal immigrants who are suffering from exposure to extreme heat or cold. Many times they lack water, are injured, or suffer from fatigue. Another example recently of the strain that illegal immigration places on law enforcement and firefighters was the Horse Fire here that burned nearly 17,000 acres and is estimated to have cost nearly $7 million to fight, not to mention the 23 firefighters who were injured and citizens who were evacuated and displaced for a period of time. The fire required sheriff resources for a full week staffing our emergency operations center, and as many as 75 deputies were committed in the field for possible evacuation of the homes. The fire was determined to have been originated by an unattended camp fire in Horse Thief Canyon, a regular immigrant smuggling corridor. As Congress and the President wrestle with these difficult issues, it is important that national policy reflect a clear understanding of the enormous challenges that local law enforcement face in dealing with immigration issues. And finally, as Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger of California has stated, national security is the responsibility of the Federal Government and should not be passed off to State and local governments. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and members. Chairman Tom Davis. Thank you very much. [The prepared statement of Mr. Kolender follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.021 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.022 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.023 Chairman Tom Davis. Chairman Horn, thanks for being with us. STATEMENT OF BILL HORN Mr. Horn. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to present San Diego County's testimony. Illegal immigration is significant and it has an adverse effect on local government. San Diego's proximity to the southern U.S. Border and the fact that the county of San Diego's responsible for providing essential services only amplifies this effect. I believe the illegal immigration issue is far greater than most are willing to admit. While current law and circumstances make it very difficult to accurately quantify the impact of this problem, it is immense. My colleagues on the Board of Supervisors and I have commissioned a study to approximate the cost of illegal immigration on the county treasury. Unfortunately, the study will not be completed until late November. Part of the problem is that many of the children of illegal immigrants are born in the United States and are legal citizens of this country entitled to all the privileges that citizenship provides. This means that regions across America, and particularly those close to the border, are bearing the weight of providing services to children whose parents are often not paying taxes for those services. Border counties have a younger impoverished population. For example, according to the U.S./Mexico Border Counties Coalition study entitled ``At the Crossroads'' in border counties, 43 percent of the children between zero and 17 years of age live in poverty. In nonborder counties, that's only 34 percent of the population. With higher levels of childhood poverty, there is a greater demand for government service. One of the services San Diego County provides which is heavily utilized by illegal immigrants is pre and postnatal care as administered by public nurses. While the child, by virtue of being born on U.S. soil, is legal, the mother may not be. This significantly increases the workload and the wait times for public health nurses, making it more difficult for those legal residents to get care. While most people in violation of immigration laws are here to work, some are here to take further advantage of our open society. The North County Regional Gang Task Force is a team of local, State, and Federal law enforcement groups. They target sophisticated street gangs involving major narcotics sales, transportation, and smuggling as well as violent crimes. In 2005, out of the 448 arrests 232 of them were in violation of immigration laws. For the first half of 2006, the team already arrested 433 individuals. Of those, 367 are in violation of immigration laws. That is a staggering 85 percent. This is extremely troublesome. While the daily average of costs per inmate in county jails being $90 a day and the average stay 6 days, the costs alone for the 2006 illegal immigrant arrests is at least $198,000. This is not including the expense of apprehension. Our porous borders and weak immigration laws pose a considerable public safety risk. This isn't just about money. It's about people's lives. As long as the border is insecure, we'll continue to import drugs and violence. According to the U.S./Mexico Border Counties study, if the border counties were the 51st State, they would rank first in Federal crimes, second in incidence of tuberculosis. And I might point out in 1994 when I first became a supervisor, we had only three cases of tuberculosis in the county of San Diego, third in death is due to hepatitis, 50th in the percent of population that has completed high school, and 51st in the number of health care professionals. You can see we're greatly understaffed. Reform is necessary for the State and local government to continue to provide quality services. State and local governments do not have control of the border or control of immigration, but they have to live with the effects of this every day. The cost of inaction arises every day. We're not talking about thousands of dollars, but millions. San Diego County may be the gateway to Mexico, but my taxpayers in the county of San Diego have become the doormat. Every dollar spent providing service to illegal immigrants is a dollar that is not used for the taxpaying citizens. And I personally think, and my colleagues do, that that is unacceptable. [Audience cheers and applauds.] Chairman Tom Davis. Thank you very much. [The prepared statement of Mr. Horn follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.024 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.025 Chairman Tom Davis. Mr. Escoboza. You need to turn your mic on there. STATEMENT OF STEVEN A. ESCOBOZA Mr. Escoboza. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Congressman Becerra. Thank you for the opportunity to participate in this hearing today. The Hospital Association of San Diego and Imperial Counties is a nonprivate 501(C)(6) trade association that represents hospitals on matters of public policy, legislative advocacy, public advocacy, and media relations. We're affiliated with the California Hospital Association and the American Hospital Association. The hospital delivery system in San Diego is unique to health delivery in the State for many reasons. One obvious distinction is our geography in proximity to the U.S./Mexico border. Another distinction is that there are no county-owned or operated public hospitals. And so private hospitals serve as a safety net for all inpatient, emergency, and trauma services for all county residents regardless of their ability to pay. While this can be attributed to various Federal, State and local laws and regulations, it is also so because our local hospitals serve the San Diego community as part of their overarching mission to provide health care to all who require it. The health care safety net delivery system in San Diego is at capacity and very fragile at this time. A recent and ongoing health care safety net study commissioned by the Board of Supervisors demonstrates that there are great threats to the safety net unless a significant list of challenges posed in the study can be addressed. While all these challenges are formidable, addressing emergency department overcrowding and the access risks that the entire community faces, if overcrowding is not a priority issue, is clearly evident in this report. The causes of emergency department overcrowding are all well documented here. Increased number of uninsured people, increased usage by Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries in the ED, work force shortages, especially nurses and on-call specialists reduce possible reimbursement, lack of in-patient beds and an overall increase in the emergency department utilization. Exacerbating the problem of increased overcrowding of emergency departments is the population of undocumented immigrants who do not qualify for the emergency services under Medicaid. While there is not yet clear data indicating the proportion of immigrants contributing to the over crowding of our EDs estimates ranging from 5 percent to 20 percent of ED visits in this State are attributed to undocumented immigrants. I've been asked by the committee to respond to four particular areas of concern to the committee: The fiscal impact of legal immigration; how the Emergency Treatment and Labor Act [EMTALA], affects health coverage of illegal immigrants in San Diego; what measurements can be taken by the Federal and State government to curb the burden of illegal immigration in California's health care delivery system; and last, how Federal Health and Human Services guidelines on Medicaid eligibility will impact the health care system in San Diego. The California Office of Health--State wide health planning development reports that in 2005 uncompensated care, meaning charity care and bad debt provided by all hospitals in the State was approximately $5.5 billion. Of that amount, approximately $1.4 billion is attributed to illegal immigration use. In San Diego County, approximately $476 million in uncompensated care is provided by local hospitals with approximately $119 million attributed to illegal immigration use. The Emergency Treatment and Labor Act directs hospitals to provide medical screening examination to people who present in the emergency department, regardless of their ability to pay or their immigration status for the purpose of identifying an emergency medical condition. While the objectives of this act address the core functions and mission of our local hospitals to provide quality care to all patients, the ramification is a burgeoning patient population flow through the emergency departments and trauma centers in San Diego. Again, aggravating this growth in our emergency department usage is the population of immigrants who don't qualify for emergency medical services. Section 1011 of the Medicare Modernization Act of 2003 targets this population with supplemental resources. Unfortunately, access to the funding is contingent upon the hospital completing provider payment determination questionnaires. The process to receive reimbursement is cumbersome and requires additional financial services personnel to manage and coordinate the implementation of Section 1011. Additionally, hospitals must gather from patients complicated immigration documentation which is time consuming and rarely forthcoming. Because the Center for Medicare/ Medicaid Services believes that the primary purpose of EMTALA services is to stabilize the patient on an emergency rather than to cure the underlying illness or injury, under Section 1011, payment will be made for medically necessary emergency services from the individuals from the time of the individual's arrival at the hospital emergency department until the patient is stabilized. While patient stabilization is subject to some interpretation by CMS, usually meaning treat and release and some admission time, usually CMS will not cover the entire patient's stay. CMS believes that most patients are stabilized within 2 calendar days after inpatient admission. The cost of hospital services provided under Section 1011 should a hospital weather the provider payment determination process is very limited with all additional inpatient costs being borne by the hospital. Given their mission and the current Federal law, EMTALA, hospitals will continue to provide patient care for all those who present in their emergency departments regardless of immigration status or ability to pay. Obviously, stronger enforcement at our borders that curtails illegal entry would curb some of the burden on hospitals. But important also is that hospitals want to avoid turning their health care professionals and hospital financial people into immigration experts. The onerous and cumbersome processes that have been put in place or will be put in place under Section 6036 of the Deficit Reduction Act distract from hospital operational and support services and could ultimately impact patient care. Hospital personnel must have the ability to focus on providing care rather than worrying about immigration status of patients. While sound public health policy dictates that the health of communities is enhanced by everyone being able to access health care through mechanisms such as EMTALA, there is also a need to strengthen border public health efforts along the border to address the burden, not just on hospitals and emergency departments, but also the threat of communicable diseases and environmental risks that impact hospitals, clinics, and physician offices indirectly because of the border's proximity to San Diego. I hope my responses to the areas of the committee's concern about illegal immigration on hospitals in San Diego are helpful. I'll be looking forward to addressing any questions you might have.21Chairman Tom Davis. Thank you very much. [The prepared statement of Mr. Escoboza follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.026 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.027 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.028 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.029 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.030 Chairman Tom Davis. Senator, thank you for being with us. STATEMENT OF DENISE MORENO DUCHENY Ms. Ducheny. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Congressman Becerra. Welcome to San Diego. And we are certainly pleased to have the opportunity to testify before you today. I would say just for my own self and for your background as questions, that my current position in the Senate is to Chair the Budget Subcommittee on Health and Human Services. In the past, in the Assembly I chaired the Budget Committee of the Assembly for several years. And prior to that, I was a practicing immigration attorney here in San Diego for over 15 years, both before and after IRCA. And it is in that context, Members, that we want to recognize how much this immigration reform debate has become highly controversial in Washington, but we sincerely hope that significant reform can be accomplished during this legislative session. It is also appropriate that you meet in San Diego where the realities of immigration, both positive and negative impacts, are an integral part of our everyday life. This is particularly true in the 40th District which I'm privileged to represent, including the entire California/Mexico border and adjacent communities in San Diego, Imperial, and Riverside counties. Let me say at the outset that California has certainly experienced costs associated with immigration. You've heard from some of my colleagues on this panel today. We certainly don't appreciate all the crime that comes with smuggling, that occurs with drugs, or human trafficking through our neighborhoods. You've heard from some of the locals about some of these things. And certainly I want to take the opportunity at least to be here to reiterate the State's concern with recent cuts to Federal programs which have in the past compensated us at least partially for some of these public safety and health care costs associated with our position as a border State. When the Border Patrol brings injured immigrants to our hospitals without taking responsibility to pay for their care, refuses to assume liability for immigrants who die crossing our deserts, throwing the burden of autopsies and funeral arrangements on our counties, and when the Federal Government refuses to prosecute drug smugglers leaving that responsibility to our State courts without any compensation to support prosecutions or incarcerations, we are forced to spend scarce State resources to meet the needs of safety and security in our communities. Some of these State concerns must be addressed if we're to have a true Federal partnership, particularly with the States on our international borders. I would just statistically point out, following on Sheriff Kolender's statistics at the county level the most recent data I have from our prisons indicates that about 17 percent of prisoners in California, about 28,000 out of 170,000 are foreign born, of which that can be various status of immigration, but foreign born could be even U.S. citizens. 5,000 of the 170,000 prisoners we hold today are--have immigration holds on them. So that gives us some sense at least of that universe. Only 5,000 have immigration holds. So the volume of crime from this population seems less, and as certainly our numbers say, at a lower rate foreign-born residents as a lower per capita rate than native born. That said, Californians are--clearly understand that we are also the beneficiaries of the talent and work ethic brought to us by a large immigrant population. A recent Union-Tribune poll shows that 70 percent of Californians support comprehensive reform including development of a path to citizenship and a practical guest worker program to allow immigrants to continue their contributions to our communities. Our universities have also done compelling research that demonstrates the net effect of immigration on California and U.S. economies and on our culture has been positive. While the precise economic impact of undocumented workers is difficult to quantify, we do know that the vast majority work every day in this State and others building new homes to meet our growth needs, harvesting the crops that feed our people, and have made California the No. 1 agricultural producer and exporter in our Nation. [Audience cheers and applauds.] [Audience boos and hisses.] Chairman Tom Davis. Now---- Ms. Ducheny. They also serve food in our restaurants---- Chairman Tom Davis. You know, everybody, I know there are a lot of strong feelings in this room on both sides, but we'd like to be able to keep this--the decorum that's appropriate for a congressional hearing. And if we don't, we'll have to clear the room. Go ahead. Ms. Ducheny. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. They also serve food in our restaurants, clean our hotels, and maintain our landscapes, all of which benefits one of our other largest industries, tourism. Proposals that would immediately deport or criminalize this population would have a dramatic negative impact on our economy. I point only tangentially to yesterday's newspaper here talking about a farmer in Salinas who has lost over $200,000 this year because he cannot find sufficient workers to pick his crops. [Audience cheers and applauds.] Ms. Ducheny. Despite the myths that undocumented workers send all their earnings back home, corporations across America recognize their buying power and eagerly expand their selling strategies to capture this growing consumer market. We have small business people who don't capture all of the income because of the underground nature of much of what is happening. But we know that all these workers pay some taxes into our system. Many have payroll income tax, Social Security, and unemployment deducted from pay each week, although they are unable to collect appropriate refunds or benefits from these deductions. They pay sales tax every time they purchase clothes and shoes for their children or appliances for their homes. They pay property tax through rent payments, even if they are not homeowners. And our experience shows their U.S. citizen children are sure to hold higher paying jobs, pay more taxes, and they even have sacrificed their lives as members of our armed services. The current situation does have costs, and others have spoken of that. I believe the largest costs to the State are probably those associated with the delivery of emergency health care services. Since undocumented immigrants are not eligible for temporary assistance to needy families [TANF], SSI, food stamps or many of our housing and social services programs, emergency health care is the one public program most impacted. Researchers at UCLA and USC have also indicated to us that immigrants on the whole are less likely to use public services, and even before the enactment of the Personal Responsibility Act in 1996. That was true then. It's true now since they're clearly ineligible for them since the passage of that act. Most immigrants, especially those without lawful permanent status are employed by businesses who do not provide health insurance for them. So we see many patients in emergency rooms who would not be there if they had access to preventive care or disease management services. Accessing the health care system through the most costly avenue, emergency rooms, only exacerbates the financial impact on the State. However, even with this reality, our research indicates that health care costs for immigrants are 55 percent lower than those of native citizens. Immigrants as a whole are a younger population, at least in California. They are that working age population; 72 percent are between the ages of 18 and 39. They are the working and relatively healthy population and therefore tend to use our services at a lower rate than native born citizens. All of this leads us, and I believe I speak for the majority of my legislative colleagues and on behalf of most of our business communities looking to Congress to create the opportunity for these hard working neighbors and employees to emerge from the shadows of our economy and expand their contributions to our society. [Audience boos and hisses.] Ms. Ducheny. By creating a program of earned legalization as proposed by the Senate, we may fully realize the economic benefits of this population. Legalized immigrants will pay more taxes, be able to acquire health insurance to lessen the burden of uncompensated care in our hospitals and become more active in our society. This was our experience with immigrants from all nations in this State, including those who acquired lawful permanent status and became U.S. citizens following the 1986 passage of IRCA. This community wants reform that works for our businesses, our economy, and what is good for our families. We must allow our economy to continue growing. That demands a work force that is skilled in different trades. The vast majority of immigrants who have come to this country to work have proven that they work hard. It is not helpful to the California economy to outsource jobs to other countries when we're unwilling to allow the people here to do those jobs. You have an opportunity to create meaningful reform based on fact and statistics, not politics of fear and rhetoric. We hope you will be able to do that in this session. Again, I appreciate the opportunity to address your committee. We do think investment in economic growth. We need border security. But border security also includes fully staffing our border crossings, a special plea for those of us from Tecate and Calexico to open our border crossings and fully staff them. We think that would help with the security, and it would also help a lot of people get back and forth across the border for legal business on a regular basis. We don't have fully staffed border crossings. We don't have fully staffed security in this area. And we certainly all want to stop the kinds of smuggling activities that Sheriff Kolender talked about. We do hope you can recognize that and that you will eliminate unreasonable quota restrictions, which also have required families to be separated for decades awaiting determination of permanent resident status, and that you can create a fair, clear, and simplified process for periodic importation of temporary labor if and when needed to sustain particularly our agricultural economy. Finally, I have taken the opportunity to provide your staff also copies of a policy--immigration policy statement from the Border Legislative Conference of which I'm a member, Border State Legislators. And I would also note Western Governors Association, the Council of State Governments West, and the National Conference of State Legislators have all taken similar positions seeking congressional action on comprehensive immigration reform. Thank you very much. [Audience boos and hisses.] Chairman Tom Davis. Thank you, Senator. [The prepared statement of Ms. Ducheny follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.031 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.032 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.033 Chairman Tom Davis. Dr. Anders. STATEMENT OF BRONWEN ANDERS Dr. Anders. Thank you Chairman Davis. Mr. Becerra. Chairman Tom Davis. Let me just ask. We have one more witness to get through. Can we just have some decorum. Let them state their case, and then we'll get to questions. Thank you, Dr. Anders. Dr. Anders. My name is Dr. Bronwen Anders. I've worked in pediatric settings in San Diego County for the last 25 years, including the University Hospital Primary Care Clinic for Children, private practice, community health centers, and I'm currently a consultant for the Indian clinics in East San Diego County. I represent the American Academy of Pediatrics which is an organization of 60,000 primary care pediatricians whose--who are deeply committed to protecting the health of children, adolescents, and young adults in the United States. Our testimony at today's hearing will focus on children, the innocent victims of illegal immigration. Children, whether they are undocumented or not, need care in our communities. Most immigrant children's care should be preventive, but too often that care is foregone, leading to far more costly and frequently inappropriate emergency room and hospital care. Unfortunately, immigrant children often do not receive the care they need because of Federal, State, and local laws, limiting payment for their care or a generalized belief that if children seek care, their families or loved ones may become the target of law enforcement. Early preventive care for children, for instance, with asthma and diabetes, can keep them out of much more expensive hospital care. One in every five American children is a member of an immigrant family. About one-third of the Nation's low income, uninsured children live in immigrant families. Children of immigrants, often racial or ethnic minorities, experience significant health disparities. Many immigrant families also have varied immigration statuses that confer different legal rights and affect the extent to which these families are eligible for public programs such as SCHIP and Medicaid. As a result, foreign born children may be ineligible for insurance coverage while his or her younger U.S. born sibling is eligible as a native citizen. Beyond the health status of the child, communities should also care about the health of the children who live in them. Because immigrant children may have diseases that are rarely diagnosed in the United States. Left untreated, these diseases may be passed on to the communities in which immigrant children reside. Tuberculosis is an example of this that can be readily picked up as a preventive screen in well child checks thereby eliminating more costly care down the road with some risk to the community. In addition, many foreign born children have not been immunized adequately or lack documents verifying their immigration status. And we described in the paperwork we've handed out how measles and mumps epidemics recently in this country may have come from populations of under-immunized children. One of the most important risk factors for lack of health coverage is a child's family immigration status. Some children in the United States are ineligible for Medicaid and SCHIP because of immigrant eligibility restrictions. Medicaid and SCHIP are not available to most immigrant children because of eligibility restrictions imposed by various Federal laws, two examples of which include the sponsor deeming rule and the recently promulgated citizenship and identification documentation requirements. These bureaucratic delays can prevent prompt treatment not only for immigrant children but also children new to foster care systems, victims of domestic violence, child abuse, and sexual abuse, and teens who might be estranged from their families. The paperwork currently required for newborns who, by definition are citizens irregardless of maternal citizenship leads to unnecessary delays in Medicaid benefits. Recommendations that we want to propose to lawmakers is that they should be aware of and sensitive to the onerous financial, educational, geographic, linguistic, and cultural barriers that interfere with achieving optimal health status for immigrant children. This awareness should translate into one, CMS confirming with States that newborns are presumed eligible for Medicaid coverage. Paperwork should not delay payment for services provided to resident newborns. Two, the deemed sponsor rule should be changed so that immigrant children are not denied access to care and, by extension, quality care. And three, the pooling of community resources to address unpaid-for care provided by pediatricians in immigrant children. Undocumented children receive care from pediatricians and other caregivers in the community. Children, families, and communities benefit from the provision of this care. Communities should not expect those caregivers alone to provide the resources needed to furnish this care. Four, encouraging payment policies to support the establishment of a medical home for all children residing in the United States. And five, outreach efforts for children who are potentially eligible for Medicaid and SCHIP but not enrolled, with simplified enrollment for both programs and State funding for those who are not eligible for Medicaid or SCHIP. In closing, the American Academy of Pediatrics seeks to ensure that Congress keep in mind the children we care for as it considers restructuring immigration law. Pediatricians and a host of other health professionals provide care to children throughout the United States. We must not compromise children's health in the name of reform. Chairman Tom Davis. Thank you very much. [The prepared statement of Dr. Anders follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.034 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.035 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.036 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.037 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.038 Chairman Tom Davis. Let me thank all the panelists. By agreement with Mr. Becerra and myself, I'll take 15 minutes for questions and then Mr. Becerra will take 15 minutes for questions. I understand you have to leave after--we're close, Senator. But let me start with our representative from ICE, Mr. Unzueta. Under the catch and release policy, Border Patrol agents are returning many illegal immigrants without prosecution. While acknowledging our criminal justice resources are already stretched thin, what effect do you think the catch and release strategy has had on encouraging people to repeatedly come back across the border? And yesterday we were at the border and saw that sometimes it takes like 10 different episodes before somebody will prosecute just given the burden in the offices of the prosecution. Mr. Unzueta. Well, I can't speak for the Border Patrol, as they're a separate entity within the Department of Homeland Security. I can certainly speak to ICE's position with ending catch and release. Within the past summer, within this summer, Secretary Chertoff has announced the Secure Border Initiative Phase II which focuses on interior enforcement as part of that strategy. The Office of Detention and Removal, which is represented by a different agency head as opposed to myself have gone out nationwide and secured additional bed space. In addition to that, we have established a command center between the ICE's Office of Investigation and Detention and Removal in headquarters to coordinate where illegal immigrants are sent and where bed space is available. In essence, we have eliminated the catch and release policy as far as ICE is concerned and the aliens that come into our detention facilities. We have plenty of bed space here in San Diego and throughout the southwest border. Again, when those bed spaces reach limited capacity or when they're reaching their maximum capacity we're able to go to this coordination center and find exactly where bed space is available. Chairman Tom Davis. But if somebody crosses illegally and they're caught and the penalty is you basically send them back. I mean, that's not a deterrent to try again. Is that fair to comment. Mr. Unzueta. Well, everybody that we come in contact with-- we're really focused, as far as our strategy, on national security and public safety. Our agents work tirelessly in complex conspiracy investigations, and our attempt is to try and target the highest levels of criminal organizations. Chairman Tom Davis. So if somebody has a past criminal record and the like, obviously you're going to treat them-- you're going to take care of them. Mr. Unzueta. Correct. Chairman Tom Davis. They're going to be put away; you'll work with Mexican authorities, whatever you have to do. But the average person who's just crossing trying to come over here looking for a new life who didn't want to go through the paperwork, they're sent back basically with a slap on the wrist and no penalty in coming back, is that---- Mr. Unzueta. In all likelihood they will be voluntarily returned to Mexico. I don't want to speak for the Border Patrol or for Customs and Border Protection, but they have undergone a couple of new programs where they're working with Mexican counterparts. Chairman Tom Davis. The committee is familiar of that. Construction industry insiders know where they can go to obtain day laborers and get cheap labor. You know where these sites are as well. What is ICE's policy with respect to day laborer congregation points? Does ICE ever establish identification checkpoints where immigration documents are evaluated? Mr. Unzueta. The day laborer sites haven't been productive as far as our enforcement in the posture that we're taking. Much of what we've done with work site enforcement is focusing on employers as opposed to the employees. Looking at companies that are egregious in their behavior of hiring illegal workers, and targeting those companies and those industries with criminal sanctions as opposed to notice of intent to fine, which we found was not very productive. Given the numbers of priority areas that we have and that our focus right now is on national security and public safety, quite honestly, the day laborer sites have not risen on the level of priority, and so we aren't focused on those individual areas. Chairman Tom Davis. Sheriff, you mentioned that the city of Vista enacted an ordinance to deal with their day laborer problems. We have that in Herndon, in my county. The town of Herndon, they were congregating at a 7-11. They set up a day laborer site funded by the town, and the voters recalled the council in the next election. [Audience cheers and applauds.] Chairman Tom Davis. Trying to deal--but again, it was the Federal Government's failure to deal with the problem, and everybody--in fact I've talked to the Mayor about it and he said well, everybody said what are you going to do about it. He did it, and tough issue for local governments. What are the provisions of the ordinance in Vista and how is the Sheriff's department working to curb the day laborer problems? Mr. Kolender. Oh, excuse me. The ordinance basically states that you as an employer have to register with the city as someone who hires day laborers. And you have a sticker on your car that says that. The goal is to knock off the large crowds of people. Chairman Tom Davis. Been effective or do you have any thought on that. Mr. Kolender. So far, they say it's been somewhat effective. It's relatively new. Chairman Tom Davis. OK. Now you cite that nearly 25 to 40 percent of local gangs are comprised of illegal immigrants. In the North County, nearly 80 percent of gang related crimes involve illegal immigrants. Does your gang enforcement unit work with ICE and the FBI? Are we getting good cooperation across different jurisdictional line? And if so, how does the Federal law enforcement assist your gang unit's efforts? Mr. Kolender. When they're arrested, they're turned over to them--or they're booked and then it goes from there. Chairman Tom Davis. Have they worked with you in gathering intelligence on these issues. Mr. Kolender. Yes. Yes. Chairman Tom Davis. OK. Has there been a--we have recently nationally put more money into gang prevention at the FBI levels in Washington recognizing that a lot of these gang members work across jurisdictions. In fact, in Fairfax, where I'm from, people will come from LA and back and forth across the borders. And I was in El Salvador last summer where we met members trying to get out of MS-13 that had been back and crossed the borders several times. This was a tattoo removal program they had down there for members who were trying to get out of gangs and explain how this works. But really it goes across a lot of jurisdictional lines, doesn't it? Mr. Kolender. Certainly. In fact, we have the MS from the Los Angeles here back and forth. Chairman Tom Davis. Chairman Horn, as we continue the process of strengthening our borders, in your experience as a regional leader, what are the most effective strategies? Do we need to focus on manpower at Border Patrol which has been suggested by some of the other speakers? Do you need more fences? You need more cameras? What's the right mix for this area. Mr. Horn. Well, as my testimony stated, the reality is, I think the biggest concern to us at the boards of supervisors is that our local taxpayers are being asked to pick up the cost of poverty in Mexico. Because that's what's coming across the border. [Audience cheers and applauds.] Mr. Horn. And I--you know, you could put in all the fences you want. You can put in all the cameras in you want. The point is that--and you mentioned to the Sheriff--I created the North County Gang Task Force in 1995. It involves the FBI, the Sheriff's department, all the local police departments, ICE, and your local Federal attorney, our local district attorney. It's been very effective. But the point is that 85 percent of the crimes that are committed in North County by the gang members are illegal aliens. And they shouldn't be here. So somehow the Federal Government needs to take responsibility for the border. We are on the borderline with a Third World country. To be honest with you, I'm not into Mexican politics. I'm only concerned about the health and welfare of both the citizens living here and even the noncitizens that happen to be here and the costs to my taxpayers. We cannot afford this burden. And nobody seems to want to pick up the tab for it. And they keep asking us to do so. The sheriff mentioned the fire we just had, you know, $7 million worth of firefighting that took place that came out of our budgets that should go to protecting homes of citizens, what have you, we protected the Cleveland National Forest because somebody illegally came across the border, created a campfire and it got out of control. So what I'm telling you is it's out of control. And you know---- Chairman Tom Davis. Has the fence made a difference? Where the fences---- Mr. Horn. I think the fence has made a difference where it's at. But the problem, the fence is not completed. The county of San Diego has over 3 years ago given authorization for them to go ahead and put the fence in, and still the fence is not completed. So I would---- Chairman Tom Davis. But it makes a difference where you have it is what I'm saying. Mr. Horn. It makes a difference where you have it. But a half done job is a half done job. Chairman Tom Davis. I got ya. I got it. OK. Thanks. [Audience cheers and applauds.] Chairman Tom Davis. Also we've talked about the costs--I'm going to get to health care in a second. But schools is a huge cost, is it not. Mr. Horn. Yeah. I left that part out of my testimony just because we're running out of time here, and I'm looking at your lights. But now that you ask me the question, I'll give you the answer? In the county of San Diego, just the education system alone, and we don't control the education system at the Board of Supervisors. But the cost to educate one child in California is significant--and I'm sure the Senator could elaborate on that--it's $11,264 per student. And assuming that only 100 children are of illegal parents and they're attending school here, that cost is $1,126,000 a year. And I'm only talking about 100 kids. As you know if you've read the papers over the years, we've had school districts that are collecting--you know, taking buses down to the border and filling them up at Tecate and bringing them back. I realize the issue with ADA. But the cost to the public education system I think is tremendous. I don't have jurisdiction over that, and I'm sure Senator Ducheny could elaborate on that. Chairman Tom Davis. Let me ask Senator Ducheny. You want to elaborate on the education--of course some of the kids that are born here of course are legal. Their brothers and sisters may not be. But again, on the educational components, so much of it is State and local funded, Federal Governments 7 percent nationally go to school. Ms. Ducheny. Probably less in California. Chairman Tom Davis. Yeah, it's 2 percent in my county which is a very affluent county. Again, the Federal Government's role in trying to protect the borders because these are downstream costs to local governments. Ms. Ducheny. Well, and education is clearly one of the larger costs. I didn't address it because I think partly we view it as an investment. To a large degree, it is U.S. citizen children---- [Audience boos and hisses.] Ms. Ducheny. And often, even children who will become citizens at some point in their lives or become lawful permanent residents. And when they do that, they tend to have that education, they're more likely to be better workers. They're higher skilled workers, more likely to pay more taxes. I mean, it's sort of a complicated formula when you start playing that out. Certainly there's a cost of direct---- Chairman Tom Davis. Let me just ask. Every study I have seen shows that an immigrant's success in America is dependent upon English language and education. Ms. Ducheny. Right. Chairman Tom Davis. Those two factors. If you get those factors down, you're going to go up. Ms. Ducheny. That's our experience here. And so the second generation, you tend to see--or third generations, you get Congressmen like Congressman Becerra. You know, you--sort of second and third generation, you start to see much higher income and benefits to the economy. So it's a little complicated depending on who the children are. Certainly, you know, we have 6\1/2\ million children in schools in California. And about a quarter of them come in speaking a language other than English. Chairman Tom Davis. Well, let me ask this question and anybody can answer it. How many of the key children of the people that are here illegally just aren't going to school? The opportunity is there. Are any of them staying home? They're afraid to send them or aren't aware of it, or did they come over here to get their kids educated? Anybody have a feel for that? Does the educational--school serve as sort of a magnet in terms of getting their kids educated. Mr. Horn. I can say locally where I live I know the school district has a number of kids that are involved, and I think the parents want them there and they teach English, they try to. But as far as having a number, I think the local laws and the State law prevents us from taking that kind of a tally. So we couldn't give you an answer for that. Ms. Ducheny. But we encourage--we did have some discussion of this in the past, and there was some problem--you know, if they weren't in school, that would be a bigger problem for Sheriff Kolender. So on the whole, we think it's better to have them in school than not. Mr. Horn. It's Federal law. It's not a State law. That's a Federal--that's a Federal law. Ms. Ducheny. There's court cases. Chairman Tom Davis. Let me just ask our health experts, we've closed four hospitals in San Diego area over the last few years? Mr. Escoboza. That's correct. Chairman Tom Davis. Can you walk me through the economics of that. Mr. Escoboza. Well, we have hospitals in San Diego--we've got 19 acute care hospitals here in San Diego, acute care meaning they have emergency departments. As my testimony went, the burden's really on the emergency department. But with respect to the immigrants who may have a traumatic situation who go into one of our six trauma centers, the length of stay and the cost for the services in that trauma center and result in other care in step-down hospitals or other arrangements is where the cost just grows dramatically. We have hospitals that have very thin margins. I can go into a lot of detail about just reimbursement for---- Chairman Tom Davis. It's a tough business even without the nonreimbursement, isn't it, because of reimbursements from the government and from HMOs and everything else. Mr. Escoboza. San Diego is a high-penetration managed care county. And since the mid-80's, we have experimented with managed care. As a result of that, though, the base for reimbursement from the Federal and State governments in San Diego is much lower. So when you compare us to the other 57 counties in the State or other States where Medicaid, or in California Medi-Cal, is reimbursed at a much higher rate, you can understand that economically we are in worse shape than other hospitals. Chairman Tom Davis. I understand the emergency care side. What about someone who needs dialysis or something that gets very expensive? On those kind of issues are we asking the questions? Is there any pecking order? Are people who are here illegally eligible for those services as well. Mr. Escoboza. Virtually no services available. However, San Diego has, I think, a very strong community partnership of nonprofits that seek specialists care and try to get people who are close to death into some sort of a treatment. There's an organization here in San Diego called Reach Out to people who specialize in working with retired doctors who try to refer these patients to health care. But short of that, that's about the only care that's available. Chairman Tom Davis. So if you have a very serious illness where you're going to need chemotherapy, something of this sort, and you're here and you're not documented and don't have insurance, it's very difficult to get care. Is that fair. Mr. Escoboza. Almost impossible. Chairman Tom Davis. Dr. Anders, is that your experience as well? Dr. Anders. Professionals along the border have worked hard to find counterparts south of the border where there's a good medical health care system. And we have a good working relationship with our professional colleagues south of the border. So if it's a nonemergent, long-term care kind of an issue--for children, for instance, we know how to direct them to good care south of the border. What's more, we're building services on the border for kids on both sides. And there's been a growing support for a hospital right on the border that services children from both sides. Chairman Tom Davis. What has been the cooperation from the Mexican authorities on doing these kind of issues, anybody, on the health care side? Any cooperation. Mr. Escoboza. Well, we've collaborated with our colleagues on south of the border. But frankly, it's a resource issue there too. As you know, the government there is very centralized. So getting the resources and the attention, the public policy that is needed from that side of the border, is difficult. Chairman Tom Davis. What does ICE do when you get someone that's very, very ill? Do you just refer them into the hospital system? Do you kind of take charge at that point to make sure their health needs are met before you deport them or send them back or turn them over to the prison system? How does that work? Mr. Escoboza. Actually, we have a contract with Alvarado Hospital here in San Diego. And any time we need to refer somebody there, we use that contract. And I believe our medical expenses at the end of this fiscal year will approach close to $1 million that's coming out of our budget. Chairman Tom Davis. OK. Thank you very much. Mr. Becerra. Mr. Becerra. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you all for your testimony. I think you've helped, again, shed some light on this. Most of what you've said I think you've said before or has been said by someone else. But perhaps by saying it enough, maybe we'll see some action taken in Washington, DC, and in the White House. I want to thank Senator Moreno Ducheny for being here. I know that you're going to have to leave. So let me see if I can start with you first, Senator, so perhaps you can help respond here. The House bill that passed back in December took an enforcement only approach versus the Senate bill which was a bipartisan bill which talked about enforcement, making sure our borders are secure, but also talked about dealing with the economic needs that you spoke about for the business community, agriculture, and otherwise, and also addressing the fact that we have a population that some estimate the size of the State population of Ohio that resides here with undocumented status. Do you have any sense, has anything been done to give you and your colleagues in the State legislature and the Governor some idea what it would cost the State of California if it were to try to apprehend, prosecute, incarcerate, and then deport the individuals who are in undocumented status, whatever number is in California, but certainly the 10 to 12 million that are estimated in the United States? Ms. Ducheny. You know, I don't think we have any specific costs. I mean, the best I have are some economic studies we could give to you that show the needs of our labor force. And the fact of our demographics, at least in California, is that we have an aging population and sort of a college-age population that are big bulks. And the truth of our working force, the 18 to 40 to 50, the age that is most productive, are in fact largely immigrant labor in this State. Now, whether--and some of that's documented and some of it's not. But our concern, and I think all our labor force studies say we need to focus on that. That goes to the education question in part, is keeping that work force so that we have the work force that's necessary. We have a population that is not growing as much internally, I guess is the best way to say it. And so immigrant work force has kept our economy growing over the last several years. Those who immigrated under IRCA were an example of that. You saw the more undocumented coming again later after the 1990's, after that sort of--you saw the folks who got legal status in the early 1990's, you know, came above ground, started paying taxes, became U.S. citizens, did the whole thing, and then you started to see another demand for labor. And I think goes back to the question of you know, nobody wants people to break laws. But the question is whether the laws are realistic at this point. And at least as a practicing attorney, for years and years I watched Congress cutback on the annual amounts of immigration quotas that were allowed for family reunification and traditional methods of immigration. And I think looking at that realistically and trying to figure out what is the true number that makes sense as a logical ongoing legal immigration is really kind of the challenge that I think you guys face. Mr. Becerra. Thank you. Let me go to Special Agent Unzueta and ask you a question. Because I know that in a recent report done by the Inspector General for Department of Homeland Security they uncovered the fact that I guess in some cases I'm not sure if it was just ICE personnel, but other personnel within the Department of Homeland Security were being asked because of budget and management issues, shortage of moneys, to cut back on your use of gasoline to try to avoid driving any more than necessary and to try to conserve as much gasoline and other types of activities that would conserve on your exhausting of resources as possible. So let me ask this question: Given that it's already a tight budget to begin with at Department of Homeland Security, and certainly I suspect for ICE, would you have the resources to go out and try to find and apprehend the 10 to 12 million or so undocumented immigrants that we're told are in this country? Mr. Unzueta. I think that would be a daunting challenge. You know, to go out and try to apprehend those folks would literally cripple our ability to conduct any criminal investigations and to target any criminal organizations, which is really what ICE as criminal investigators is designed to do. Mr. Becerra. Let me ask this. I asked in the hearing that took place in July here in San Diego of the Border Patrol representative what one or two items, if you could be as specific as possible, could you most use to help you do your work better? And by that I don't mean just a global increase in your budget. For example, the representative from the Border Patrol mentioned electronic surveillance equipment that was the type of drone activity--the drone aircraft that can fly unmanned and help us patrol the border itself. He also mentioned better tunnel detection equipment, which I know you know quite a bit about. Those were the two things he said. If I had a chance to say to you, Congress, give me some resources so I could secure some equipment, he said overhead detection by these drones and better tunnel detection equipment are the two things I could best use. Let me ask you: What one or two things, if you had a chance to tell us and you knew it would happen, that Congress would provide it, what would be the one or two things you would say you most need. Mr. Unzueta. I think the one thing we would be looking for right now is a comprehensive immigration reform package. [Audience cheers and applauds.] [Audience boos and hisses.] Mr. Becerra. Let me ask a question now of Chairman Horn and also Sheriff Kolender because they deal with this day-to-day here in the county of San Diego. In fact, I think Chairman Horn, I think you used the words ``the costs of inaction.'' If we don't get something done soon, the costs continue to fall on the State and local governments. And I know the Senator could probably respond to some of this as well, but let me focus on the two representatives from the county of San Diego. I know that there are some programs that the Federal Government has that try to reimburse you for the services and activities you undertake that are really--should be federally borne, whether it's the incarceration of an immigrant who doesn't have the right to be in this country or whether it's the provision of a health care service to an immigrant who doesn't have the right to be in this country. But I think every study, every indicator, every witness we've ever heard from has always said it's never been enough to fully compensate the local governments for the costs that were incurred. The program--both of you I know are very familiar with the State Criminal Alien Assistance Program [SCAAP]. It's a program that's been in existence for about 11 years now, and it's a program that's meant to try to reimburse specifically counties for the costs of trying to incarcerate undocumented immigrants. So far every year that the President has submitted his budget to the Congress, he has proposed zero funding for SCAAP. And Congress, fortunately, has always funded, to some degree, the SCAAP program. Never enough. I think last year we funded-- we gave about $400 million for the SCAAP program nationwide California, by itself, as the Senator I think could tell us, would consume $750 to $800 million on its own. So clearly $400 million for the entire Nation isn't going to be enough. What would happen if you didn't get whatever your county's share of the California SCAAP funding is for this fiscal year if you didn't have that money, Sheriff? Mr. Kolender. It would obviously have a very negative effect on our budget. As the chairman of the Board of Supervisors here would be---- Mr. Becerra. You'd be coming to him a lot more often, I suspect. Mr. Kolender. Yes, I would. Mr. Horn. He comes---- Mr. Kolender. We all would. Mr. Horn. He comes to me too much already. I would point out that we estimate alone, just in the county of San Diego to incarcerate the prisoners he has in Otay Mesa that are not legally here in the country but happen to be locked up in our legal jail, it's about $50 million a year. You gave us $2 million last year. Mr. Becerra. $2 million. Mr. Horn. So you owe us $48 million just for last year. So it's not a cost that may come in the future. It's a cost that his department and my county bears right now. I would just--you know, I don't even want to make a profit on you. I'd be happy with a 70--you know, a 25 percent discount just on the fees for health care. If I could just submit a bill. I don't want to be the person that says you're eligible or not eligible. I happen to agree that if the child is here, they need to be educated. If they're here, they ought to be healthy. If they got tuberculosis, I want to attack the problem. The problem is we have no control over this border. And you mentioned the tunnels. And we have a lot of tunnels. We had one big major one---- Mr. Becerra. Right. Mr. Horn [continuing]. With a railroad in it. But you have a criminal element on the other side of the border who--you know, they're involved in their own government. I would like you to quit making treaties and everything else until they clean up their act. You are asking us---- [Audience cheers and applauds.] Mr. Horn. I don't blame these folks for wanting to come here and work, make their life better and bring their family here. In fact, you know, I think that's probably the American way; that's why we have a statue of liberty. But at the same time, I do not believe that the legal taxpayers of the county should be required to pick up the tab because the local government doesn't want to address the issue. Mr. Becerra. Chairman Horn, I think what you've said most everyone would agree that if it's a Federal responsibility, the Federal Government should cover that cost. If the Federal Government's going to require you to do something, as we do by law in certain cases, for example, health care services, that we should then pony up whatever the costs would be that go beyond what are truly State or local government costs. And I think that's one of the reasons why so many of us are desperate to try to get a comprehensive immigration reform proposal passed this year---- [Audience cheers and applauds.] Mr. Becerra [continuing]. So we can deal with that sooner than later. Ms. Ducheny. Can I--let me see if I can ask a question of Mr. Escoboza and also of Dr. Anders--Senator, did you want to say something? Ms. Ducheny. I was just going to make one quick comment on the SCAAP and then I'll leave. But I remember when I was budgeteer in the Assembly in the late 1990's our SCAAP funding was--the national funding was $750 million. It was never enough. California got about $500 then. We've been steadily declining the amount that we get--the proposed zeros and Congress gets it back to $300. So when they're saying $300 or $400, 10 years ago we were getting $750. That wasn't enough then, and it should have been escalating, not declining. Mr. Becerra. It's gone down pretty much from the 1990's when we were getting a greater share. I think most of us would agree with you there. I wanted to ask Dr. Anders and Mr. Escoboza on the health care side. And it's a tough side because here you're dealing with, in many cases, life threatening cases. And as you pointed out, and I think Mr. Escoboza you made a very good point about this issue of stabilizing the patient. The patient comes in, required by law and probably good ethical standards in the health community to at least bring that person back to a stable position. At some point the Federal Government tells you you've stabilized. We no longer will cover any costs of that individual who's undocumented to be reimbursed by the Federal Government for the costs. The hospital, county, the providers can't in most cases just say that's when we cut that patient off of any kind of health assistance. Give me a sense of what now these bureaucratic rules to require you now to sort of certify and document who everyone is that's coming in. What kind of costs does that impose upon a health care provider to try to not only fulfill your ethical responsibility but now the Federal mandated responsibility to try to stabilize? Mr. Escoboza. Congressman, under Section 1011 of the Medicare Modernization Act we've had some experience, not a lot, because this law just went into effect last year. And so we're just collecting data now. But it is an onersome process, and you have many hospitals who are unwilling to even attempt to get reimbursement because of that burdensome responsibility. So we don't have good data yet, but maybe eventually we shall get some. And I think the waiting for the next shoe to drop is what impact the DRA, Deficit Reduction Act section will have on hospital personnel, medical clinicians in the hospital setting themselves. We know that the State of California sometime later this month will put forth its guidelines. But again, just in general, I think to focus attention on patient care when people present in the emergency department or in one of the wards is what health professionals are all about. So whatever can be done to find a way to streamline that paperwork, I know technology has the potential for doing it in the future. But we need a system of identification that doesn't take the health care professional or other hospital staff away from taking care of that patient when they present. Mr. Becerra. And San Diego's hospitals are not able to present a bill to the Federal Government for the costs of administering this new administrative procedure for documenting who's coming in and who's in the hospitals, does it. Mr. Escoboza. Correct, sir. It's basically another unfunded mandate. Mr. Becerra. Dr. Anders, I don't know if you wanted to add anything. You need your mic. Dr. Anders. Those of us who have worked in community health centers over the last few years know that we can no longer just decide what kids have and what they need. We need to also understand the funding sources. That sort of has been a whole additional burden even not just focusing on immigrants. And I think that there are a number of funding programs that we've become skilled at trying to mobilize. The EPDST program we've pushed to its max, but we need to hold on to, to support well child checks. We've worked at the community level to do what we can to raise funds for pharmaceutical needs of uninsured children of whom the undocumented are a high amount. And yes, it's complicated. It's challenging, and certainly the immigrant issue makes it harder. Mr. Becerra. Thank you. I have one last question. Let me give you some quick statistics. Since 1986 we've increased the budget of the Border Patrol which is now--to ICE and Border Patrol under Homeland Security. But since 1986 we've increased the budget of the Border Patrol by a factor of 10. We have increased man hours spent patrolling the border by a factor of eight since 1986. And the cost to the American taxpayer since 1986 for this activity has increased by about 500 percent. Yet since 1986 when we had the last immigration reform, we have continued to see individuals coming to our country without the right to be here. All of this money, all of this enforcement, and yet we still have unauthorized migration. Many of us believe that in order to really cutoff the spigot you have to deal with the magnet that's bringing folks in, and that's jobs; that there is someone in this country willing to break the law and offer to someone who is in this country without authorization an opportunity to work. In many cases, that opportunity to work comes under some pretty egregious circumstances with some pretty exploitive terms for that worker who works in this country. But until--many of us believe that until we deal with the fact that there are employers who are willing to take advantage of people who don't have status in this country and are willing to work at lower wages under harsher conditions that we will not be able to stem the flow of undocumented immigrations. Many of us believe we have to figure out a way to come up with an identification document that can't be easily and fraudulently manipulated. And many of us believe that if we had more oversight over those types of work sites where we know immigrants tend to concentrate themselves when it comes to work, that we could do a better job. I'm wondering if anyone has any final thought. And certainly, Mr. Unzueta, I would ask you as well as the sheriff to make a comment on this, because it's on the enforcement side that I'm asking the question. Mr. Kolender. Sir, I think that's half of it. I think that nothing is going to really make any significant difference until we can work stronger with Mexico to get some responsibility on the part of their government toward the people who live there. [Audience cheers and applauds.] Mr. Becerra. Good point. Mr. Unzueta. Special Agent Unzueta. Mr. Unzueta. I certainly agree with many of the comments that you've made. And that's exactly why we have focused all of our efforts, increased on work site enforcement and developing programs like IMAGE where we're working with industry and trying to do the right thing. It's also why we have asked for the no-match information from Social Security Administration to be able to target and to focus effectively on industries or on particular companies that are the most egregious and the highest level of violators. Mr. Becerra. But if I could suggest to you that in the process of doing the work site enforcement which is our right to do as a sovereign Nation, that if you just deport the immigrant or prosecute the immigrant who worked without authorization, there's going to be another immigrant that will follow the next day. Until we really--and I don't think any of us can name more than a few employers over the years who have actually been prosecuted for violating the law and hiring unauthorized immigrant workers. Until we actually go after the employer, the price won't be paid. Because there are always any number of immigrants, as we've just heard that will come through and try to take the job that immigrant who just got deported lost. So I think we really have to let the employer community know that those who do this the right way, legitimately, we're going to reward; but those who will do this unscrupulously, we'll punish. Mr. Unzueta. I would agree with you. [Audience cheers and applauds.] Mr. Unzueta. And that is clearly why we're focusing now on criminal sanctions. And I hope within the next 30 to 45 days to be able to report back to you on a very significant case, actually, here in San Diego. Mr. Becerra. OK. Mr. Unzueta. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Tom Davis. Thank you. Let me just say to all of our panelists, thank you very much. Let me just note that the House bill, which I support, is also a bipartisan bill. That this thing--these bills, basically the House and the Senate come at it--at the whole issue from a different direction. But I am convinced after being here yesterday and today, hearing your testimony that we have to seal the borders first. If we can't do that we're not going to have credibility---- [Audience cheers and applauds.] Chairman Tom Davis [continuing]. In a lot of these other areas. We also recognize that we do need workers. And you've got to find a way to get people from the underground economy into a regulated economy where they can pay taxes and start paying their own way. And our failure to get any bill means the status quo continues. Although, I would note that the current status quo, we're not enforcing the laws that are currently on the books. And we need to do a better job of that as well. [Audience cheers and applauds.] Mr. Becerra. Some of the witnesses referred to outside studies, and I would ask unanimous consent that they be given-- be able to put them into the record and they'd be part of the record of this meeting again. Chairman Tom Davis. This has been very helpful to us and our committee as we write this up. It's true that each House has passed a bill, but I'm not sure that we will get a reconciliation of that in the conference in this Congress, so this will go toward the record in the next Congress. And also we're still in a conference. I'm not sure if Mr. Becerra or I will be conferees on that, but I think this has been very helpful in terms of building the record. And I appreciate all that you all are doing as well. Anything else, Mr. Becerra? Mr. Becerra. No. Chairman Tom Davis. If not, the hearing is adjourned. Thank you. Mr. Becerra. Thank you. [Whereupon, the committee was adjourned.] [Additional information submitted for the hearing record follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.039 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.040 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.041 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.042 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.043 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.044 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.045 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.046 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.047 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.048 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.049 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.050 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.051 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.052 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.053 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.054 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.055 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.056 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.057 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.058 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.059 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.060 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0527.061