[House Hearing, 110 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] THE LACK OF DIVERSITY IN LEADERSHIP POSITIONS IN NCAA COLLEGIATE SPORTS ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, TRADE, AND CONSUMER PROTECTION OF THE COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ FEBRUARY 28, 2007 __________ Serial No. 110-7 Printed for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce energycommerce.house.gov U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 35-220 WASHINGTON : 2007 _____________________________________________________________________________ For Sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; (202) 512�091800 Fax: (202) 512�092250 Mail: Stop SSOP, Washington, DC 20402�090001 COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE JOHN D. DINGELL, Michigan, Chairman HENRY A. WAXMAN, California JOE BARTON, Texas EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts Ranking Member RICK BOUCHER, Virginia RALPH M. HALL, Texas EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York J. DENNIS HASTERT, Illinois FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey FRED UPTON, Michigan BART GORDON, Tennessee CLIFF STEARNS, Florida BOBBY L. RUSH, Illinois NATHAN DEAL, Georgia ANNA G. ESHOO, California ED WHITFIELD, Kentucky BART STUPAK, Michigan BARBARA CUBIN, Wyoming ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York JOHN SHIMKUS, Illinois ALBERT R. WYNN, Maryland HEATHER WILSON, New Mexico GENE GREEN, Texas JOHN SHADEGG, Arizona DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado CHARLES W. ``CHIP'' PICKERING, Vice Chairman Mississippi LOIS CAPPS, California VITO FOSSELLA, New York MIKE DOYLE, Pennsylvania STEVE BUYER, Indiana JANE HARMAN, California GEORGE RADANOVICH, California TOM ALLEN, Maine JOSEPH R. PITTS, Pennsylvania JAN SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois MARY BONO, California HILDA L. SOLIS, California GREG WALDEN, Oregon CHARLES A. GONZALEZ, Texas LEE TERRY, Nebraska JAY INSLEE, Washington MIKE FERGUSON, New Jersey TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin MIKE ROGERS, Michigan MIKE ROSS, Arkansas SUE MYRICK, North Carolina DARLENE HOOLEY, Oregon JOHN SULLIVAN, Oklahoma ANTHONY D. WEINER, New York TIM MURPHY, Pennsylvania JIM MATHESON, Utah MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas G.K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee CHARLIE MELANCON, Louisiana JOHN BARROW, Georgia BARON P. HILL, Indiana Professional Staff Dennis B. Fitzgibbons, Chief of Staff Gregg A. Rothschild, Chief Counsel Sharon E. Davis, Chief Clerk Bud Albright, Minority Staff Director Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection Subcommittee on Energy and Air Quality RICK BOUCHER, Virginia, Chairman CHARLIE MELANCON, Louisiana J. DENNIS HASTERT, Illinois, JOHN BARROW, Georgia Ranking Member HENRY A. WAXMAN, California RALPH M. HALL, Texas EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts FRED UPTON, Michigan ALBERT R. WYNN, Maryland ED WHITFIELD, Kentucky MIKE DOYLE, Pennsylvania JOHN SHIMKUS, Illinois JANE HARMAN, California JOHN B. SHADEGG, Arizona TOM ALLEN, Maine CHARLES W. ``CHIP'' PICKERING, CHARLES A. GONZALEZ, Texas Mississippi JAY INSLEE, Washington STEVE BUYER, Indiana TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin MARY BONO, California MIKE ROSS, Arkansas GREG WALDEN, Oregon DARLENE HOOLEY, Oregon MIKE ROGERS, Michigan ANTHONY D. WEINER, New York SUE MYRICK, North Carolina JIM MATHESON, Utah JOHN SULLIVAN, Oklahoma MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas (ii) C O N T E N T S ---------- Page Barton, Hon. Joe, a Representative in Congress from the State of Texas, opening statement....................................... 5 Prepared statement........................................... 6 Burgess, Hon. Michael C., a Representative in Congress from the State of Texas, opening statement.............................. 9 Butterfield, Hon. G.K., a Representative in Congress from the State of North Carolina, opening statement..................... 8 Hill, Hon. Baron P., a Representative in Congress from the State of Indiana, opening statement.................................. 9 Ross, Hon. Mike, a Representative in Congress from the State of Arkansas, opening statement.................................... 4 Rush, Hon. Bobby L., a Representative in Congress from the State of Illinois, opening statement................................. 1 Schakowsky, Hon. Janice D., a Representative in Congress from the State of Illinois, prepared statement.......................... 11 Stearns, Hon. Cliff, a Representative in Congress from the State of Florida, opening statement.................................. 3 Terry, Hon. Lee, a Representative in Congress from the State of Nebraska, opening statement.................................... 7 Towns, Hon. Edolphus, a Representative in Congress from the State of New York, opening statement................................. 6 Witnesses Brand, Myles, president, the National Collegiate Athletic Association, Indianapolis, IN.................................. 14 Prepared statement........................................... 111 Hill, Fitzgerald, president, Arkansas Baptist College, Little Rock, AR....................................................... 26 Prepared statement........................................... 86 Jackson, Jesse L., Sr. president, Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, Chicago, IL.................................................... 12 Prepared statement........................................... 46 Keith, Floyd, executive director, Black Coaches Association, Indianapolis, IN............................................... 28 Prepared statement........................................... 50 Lapchick, Richard E., chair, DeVos Sport Business Management Program, and director, Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport, University of Central Florida College of Business Administration, Orlando, FL.................................... 30 Prepared statement........................................... 61 Richardson, Nolan, former head basketball coach, University of Arkansas....................................................... 32 Prepared statement........................................... 72 Weiser, Tim, director of athletics, Intercollegiate Athletic Agency, Manhattan, KS.......................................... 33 Prepared statement........................................... 68 THE LACK OF DIVERSITY IN LEADERSHIP POSITIONS IN NCAA COLLEGIATE SPORTS ---------- WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 2007 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection, Committee on Energy and Commerce, Washington, DC. The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 9:40 a.m., in room 2322 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Bobby L. Rush (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Members present: Representatives Schakowsky, Butterfield, Barrow, Hill, Towns, Ross, Dingell [ex officio], Stearns, Whitfield, Terry, Burgess, and Barton [ex officio]. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BOBBY L. RUSH, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS Mr. Rush. We are going to call this subcommittee to order. My opening statement will be reflected with these words. First of all, I would like the witnesses to please relocate, if you will, to the witness table there, Reverend Jackson and Dr. Brand. We will have opening statements from the members of the subcommittee and then that will be followed by opening statements from our witnesses and then we will have questions and answers from both entities. I want to remind members that our rules indicate that if you pass on your opening statement, that will give you 3 additional minutes for questioning, and so we will proceed in that order. Today is the last day of February, the last day of Black History Month. Three and a half weeks ago, two African-American head coaches, Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith, made history and faced each other in Super Bowl XLI. Consequently, as the chairman of this subcommittee, I believe this hearing, our first of the 110th Congress, and its subject matter are very, very timely. For all of the success people of color have made in obtaining high-profile leadership positions in professional sports, similar progress in college athletics remains stubbornly elusive. Even though we have come to believe that sports is the one segment of American society that is colorblind, it seems that African-Americans and other minorities still face professional barriers and cannot achieve the levels of success that their white male counterparts enjoy. Today I hope to find out why this is the case and what has to be done. Currently there are only 16 people of color who are athletic directors of Division I-A college programs. Twelve are African-Americans, three are Latinos and one Native American. While roughly 25 percent of college basketball coaches are African-American, only seven of the 119 NCAA Division I-A college football teams have African-American head coaches. This homogeneity is actually more profound at the Division II and III levels. Indeed, overall, of the 616 football programs that are affiliated with the NCAA, excluding historically black colleges and universities, only 14--I repeat, only 14 are African-American. Similar numbers hold true for women's sports and the inclusion rates for Latinos and Asians are equally dismal. Lastly, it is worth noting that not a single commissioner of a Division I athletic conference is a person of color, not one. What is going on here? The usual excuse for such disparities is that as a result of social historical circumstances, African-Americans and people of color have not been in the job market long enough and haven't had enough time to build the requisite experience. This is an excuse that is profoundly in error as a general matter and it certainly doesn't hold any water in the sports marketplace. African- Americans have a long-established and successful history in collegiate sports at the highest level and the talent pool for black head coach and athletic director candidates is overflowing with qualified candidates. There is simply no good excuse for this lack of diversity in the higher echelons of college athletics. I am fully aware of the cynicism that some of my colleagues on this committee have privately expressed about this hearing. I further realize that some members do not believe that this is a topic that is worthy of a congressional hearing. Quite frankly, I think this type of thinking is elitist and indicative of a sheltered and privileged mindset. For the record, let me state that I have sat through many hearings where I have been subject to, in my humble opinion, worthless, insulting and inane subject matters. Well, in my neck of the woods, we have a saying, ``What is good for the goose is good for the gander'', and with that stated, let me be clear, racial discrimination, intentional or unintentional, should always be the target of congressional inquiry no matter when and where it takes place. Moreover, I believe that racial and gender discrimination in the leadership ranks of college sports is especially worthy of our examination today. First, athletic scholarships are often the only way qualified students from disadvantaged backgrounds can obtain a college education. A large percentage of these student-athletes are minorities and it is extremely important that these young men and women have access to role models and mentors who reflect their diverse background. Second, and just as importantly, NCAA college sports is literally a multibillion dollar business. Cable and television broadcast rights, merchandising, advertising revenues, these are all cash cows that have turned college athletics, particularly football and basketball, into commercial juggernauts that make up an integral part of our popular culture. It is interstate commerce in its purest sense. The fact that a sizable portion of this billion-dollar revenue stream is being generated by minority student-athletes but minorities are not part of the upper tier of strategic and decision-making leadership roles presents a disturbing two-tier situation that should raise a lot of eyebrows and a lot of tough questions. Finally, let me thank our distinguished panelists who are here before us today. All of them have done a great job of raising this issue in the public arena, promoting awareness and spurring lively discussion. It is my sincere hope that today's subcommittee hearing with our distinguished guests will shed light on a problem that has plagued not only college sports but society for far too long. Indeed, sunshine is often the best disinfectant. On this last day of Black History Month, let us hope that the sunshine of this hearing moves us one step closer even if the step is a small step to a truly colorblind society and make America better for all of us. Thank you, and I yield back the balance of my time. I want to now recognize my distinguished colleague from the State of Florida, the minority ranking member of this subcommittee, Mr. Stearns, for 5 minutes. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CLIFF STEARNS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE Of FLORIDA Mr. Stearns. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate your calling this hearing and continuing the tradition of this subcommittee to use our jurisdiction to examine sports issues, which we did many times when I was chairman. You and I have worked together on other issues in telecommunication and I look forward to working with you on this. We have worked on previous sports issues and I think we have an opportunity to continue this history. I would like to take a moment and welcome three new members to my side of the aisle. One is J. Dennis Hastert, who is the former Speaker of the House, is now on our subcommittee. I am very proud and pleased that we will have his participation, his leadership and his wisdom. Vito Fossella from New York is also a new member to this committee, and Sue Myrick from North Carolina, so I welcome these there new members. Mr. Chairman, this is not the first time this subcommittee has examined issues that affect collegiate sports. In the last Congress, we examined the prevalence of steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs and the policies to keep them out of the sports arena at the professional and collegiate level. Before that we looked at a variety of issues affecting amateur sports including commercialism and the welfare of student- athletes. We also worked in a bipartisan manner to move legislation regarding the conduct of unscrupulous sports agents who targeted collegiate athletes. I know my colleague from Tennessee had his bill. We had a hearing on it. We were very successful in getting it through the sub and full and through the House. This bill was finally enacted into law and it started at this subcommittee. Today's hearing should seem out of place in the year 2007. I think a lot of people are quite surprised but I agree with you: we should be looking at the numbers. You have given some valid statistics here when you talk about 119 Division I schools, and out of that six are African-Americans and one are Latino, and those are something worth looking at and understanding why this happened. But looking at the numbers, it is hard to come up with any plausible reason why there are so few minority head football coaches and other leadership positions at NCAA schools, particularly in light of the fact that we had two African-American coaches in the NFL Super Bowl, showing the competence and the qualification of these individuals. Surely, surely, it should also be seen that this expertise is available in the Division I schools. There are other areas that we can talk about. I think the chairman has also given many statistics to point out that there is a lot of work for Dr. Brand and the NCAA to work in and yet at the same time they have been pressuring universities such as the University of Illinois to change their nickname and mascot and I think that perhaps is one area he could work at but I think there is much more broader areas where he could use his influence, and I would suggest that he look at that too. Another question, I think, Mr. Chairman, what are the benefits and pensions for these NCAA coaches? Does the NCAA have any say-so? Can they help out? There are a lot of coaches that are making a lot of money but what about those coaches that are not? So there is a host of questions that we can ask today and I look forward to the hearing, and I appreciate your calling it. With that I yield back. Mr. Rush. Mr. Ross is recognized for 5 minutes. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE ROSS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS Mr. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding today's hearing on the lack of diversity in leadership positions in NCAA collegiate sports. I would also like to thank the panel of witnesses who have joined us here today, especially two from my home State of Arkansas, Dr. Fitz Hill and Coach Nolan Richardson, both from Arkansas. Both Dr. Hill and Coach Richardson have made tremendous contributions to collegiate sports and are well qualified to speak on today's topic. As we know, Coach Richardson was a college basketball coach at the University of Arkansas where he was the winningest coach in Razorback history, compiling a 389-169 record in 17 seasons. Coach Richardson gained national recognition by taking the Razorbacks to three Final Four appearances in the 1990's including winning the NCAA national championship title in 1994 when he also took home Coach of the Year honors. Coach Richardson is also the only head coach to win a junior collegiate championship, the NIT Tournament and the NCAA Tournament. Coach Richardson's successful career in coaching has truly been an example that has paved the way for some African-Americans in the ranks of coaching but not nearly enough. Dr. Hill, who is currently president of Arkansas Baptist College, received his degrees in communications and physical education from Washita Baptist University in 1987. In 1989 he was hired to become an assistant football coach for the Arkansas Razorbacks. He went on to serve on the Razorback staff for five different head coaches over a period of 12 years but perhaps the most important reason that Dr. Hill is here is because in May 1997 he was awarded the doctorate of education degree from the University of Arkansas where his doctoral dissertation was entitled ``Examining the Barriers Restricting Employment Opportunities Relative to the Perceptions of African-American Football Coaches at NCAA Division I-A Colleges and Universities.'' Dr. Hill is now working on his first book related to racial disparities in NCAA coaching, and I look forward to reading it. I believe we will all be able to learn from it, Dr. Hill. I am pleased that both these remarkable men who have contributed so much to the State of Arkansas are here today to share their perspectives on racial disparities in the NCAA collegiate sports, and I believe, Mr. Chairman, that we can certainly learn from both of these fine men from my home State of Arkansas. Mr. Rush. I recognize the former chairman of the full committee, Mr. Barton. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE BARTON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS Mr. Barton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I listened with some pain to Mr. Ross's accolades to Coach Richardson. As a Texas A & M graduate and devotee of the late Shelby Metcalf, who coached the Aggies for many years, I was on the wrong end of many of those victories that you just talked about, but I understand that we have to boost the home team. It is good to have the father of a famous son with us today in our presence. It is good to know where the chip off the old block gets some of his pizzazz from, so we are glad to have the Reverend Jesse Jackson here. I am going to put my opening statement in the record, Mr. Chairman, but I want to put one thing to rest that you said in your opening statement. Unequivocally, the minority supports you holding this hearing without reservation. I too have sat through many inane hearings, some of which I called myself, and---- Mr. Rush. I know. Mr. Barton. So let us just get the record straight: The minority supports this hearing. It is a serious issue when at this stage of our great Nation's history there are as few minority professional head coaches and athletic directors and administrators in the NCAA. It is a worthy hearing. I don't know what the remedy is. I will reserve the right on being supportive of whatever legislative, if any, remedy but we are absolutely committed to supporting you in holding this hearing, and if it needs to be a series of hearings, we will be very supportive of that. I come from Waco, Texas. I was in the first integrated high school in Waco. I was a 6-year athletic starter in football and baseball, lost my starting position to a young athlete who happened to be African-American for the simple reason he was better than I. He was a better player. And when the coach came to me and said, ``Are you OK with that, Barton?'' I said, ``Well, I wish I was 20 pounds heavier and about a second faster and then I wouldn't be OK with it, but he is a better player.'' So I don't talk about my athletic prowess because I wasn't very proud. Mr. Rush. You said you played for 6 years. Did you flunk? Mr. Barton. Well, no. I got to play football because I was the only one they thought was smart enough to read the hand signals and they didn't understand that I was blind as a bat so I couldn't see them anyway, but that is a different story. But we are very supportive of you holding these hearings, and if there is something we can do to support some changes in NCAA, we will be supportive of that also, and with that, I yield back. [The prepared statement of Mr. Barton follows:] Prepared Statement of Hon. Joe Barton, a Representative in Congress from the State of Texas The purpose of this hearing is to explore the diversity in athletic directorships and head coaching in NCAA collegiate sports. The Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection has a strong bipartisan history in many areas, including investigations on various issues in both professional and collegiate sports. We all agree that many professional and collegiate athletes are role models for young people, but our aspiring young athletes should also have people to whom they can look to for guidance and advice. Role models are important in terms of shaping an athlete's professional and personal futures. To the extent we can encourage diversity in positions providing role models to our young athletes, we should. I thank the distinguished witnesses with us today for participating and sharing their views. It is important we have a full and open debates on this and many other issues affecting all competition levels of athletics. Mr. Rush. The next member recognized will be Mr. Towns of New York for 5 minutes. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. EDOLPHUS TOWNS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK Mr. Towns. Let me thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing and to say to you that I will not take the entire 5 minutes but I want you to know that when we started talking about the student-athlete's right to know, there was a lot of criticism as well. At that particular time students were not graduating, they were playing 4 years and then going back home with no degree and people said that we should not be involved in this and didn't think that Congress should entertain, but as a result of our involvement now, the graduation rate has increased tremendously and that the graduation rate among student-athletes is now higher than the student body and that is basically because of the student- athlete's right to know. Now, in the meantime, a lot of people did not support it then and of course felt that we should not be involved. Well, I want to encourage you to be involved because the issue that you are dealing with now is about fairness. That is what we are talking about, fairness, and I think that if the Congress is not going to be about fairness, then what is the Congress going to be about? So I am hoping that you will continue to look at this issue and let us begin to bring people in and talk about it and recommend a fix, and of course, if it is not fixed, there is a lot of legislative things that can be done that can fix it, and as we continue to talk to experts, people who have been involved in the business, we will be able to get information from them and use that to be able to. I just would hope that we would not move too quickly. We want to make certain that we have enough information and bring experts in, and once we get that information, I think to take action, and let us face it, you are always going to be criticized. You have to understand, there are people out in the world that all they do is criticize. They specialize in criticism. I have heard stories of whole families that all they do is just criticize. The great-granddaddy is a criticizer, the granddaddy, all the grandchildren, and the story goes that a lady married into the criticizing family and of course she thought that she would be able to stop this fellow from criticizing and that she was doing all she could to stop him, and the story goes that he came downstairs one morning and she is trying to be helpful and stop him from criticizing. She said, would you like to have breakfast, and of course he said yes, I would like to have breakfast. So what would you like to have. He said I would to have two eggs, I would like to have one boiled and one fried and I want it in front of me in 7 minutes. So she ran over to the stove, brought it back in front of him. He looked at it, he said there you go again, you fried the wrong egg. So, Mr. Chairman, you are always going to have folks that are going to criticize you. Don't worry about that. Just do what you have to do on behalf of the people of this Nation, and this is an issue that we should not ignore. This is an issue that we should deal with because a lot of folks are on the outside because of unfairness. Mr. Rush. I recognize Mr. Terry for 5 minutes. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LEE TERRY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEBRASKA Mr. Terry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do appreciate that you are holding this hearing today. I do think this is a legitimate issue when you have out of 119 Division I colleges only eight minority representatives as head coaches, and frankly, I think University of Nebraska, although we don't have a African-American or minority head coach, our former coach, Tom Osborne, did a good job of grooming Tony Samuels and one of my classmates and a friend, Turner Gill, to be head coaches, and maybe that is the way we can look at this. I do want to say a couple of things that were not part of my thoughts when I walked in here today, and that is the discussion about criticism of holding this hearing. Frankly, I hadn't heard any criticism of holding this hearing. The folks I have talked to on our side, no one that I know of has said anything negative about holding this hearing, in fact, that it is a very legitimate issue and frankly we kind of enjoy bringing NCAA folks in here and exercising our jurisdiction in that way. So I compliment you on doing that, and I certainly would not associate with any potential criticism out there. I want to say it is legitimate. There is one thing I would say that is not related to the subject matter that is a criticism. I am sure it is unintentional, by all means, but the Republican Conference is held every Wednesday from 9 to 10 so holding a hearing at 9:30 forced the Republican side to have to choose between attending their weekly conference or attending the hearing. Obviously I chose the hearing over the conference but I would appreciate if we didn't have to have that conflict in the future, and I yield back. Mr. Rush. That is another boiled egg/fried egg kind of criticism. Mr. Butterfield is recognized for 5 minutes. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. G.K. BUTTERFIELD, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA Mr. Butterfield. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I too would like to thank you for convening this very important hearing today. I would also like to thank the two witnesses for joining us, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, whom I have known for at least 30 years, probably more, and Dr. Brand. Thank you both very much for coming to be with us today. I am probably, Mr. Chairman, the only one except for maybe Congressman Towns, who remembers when Reverend Jackson played football at A & T College in Greensboro, North Carolina. That was many years ago, but he was certainly not only a distinguished student but a distinguished athlete as well. Mr. Chairman, we just saw the Super Bowl on television the other day and it was certainly an extraordinary event. It was a remarkable milestone that we had two African-American head coaches who met for the first time in the Super Bowl. It highlights the fact, Mr. Chairman, that African-American coaches can compete at the highest professional level and win at the highest level. I am hopeful that this historical event opens the door even wider for even more minority coaches. Hopefully it is a clear signal that race is becoming less and less of an issue for teams at the highest level. One of the ways the NFL has tried to deal with a lack of diversity among head coaches is the so-called Rooney Rule where minority candidates must be considered and interviewed for open jobs. Seeing Dungy and Smith coach against one another in the Super Bowl and the Giants' recent hiring of Jerry Reese, the NFL's third black general manager, could lead to suggestions that progress is being made quickly. Although it is a start, there is still a long way to go at all levels before we reach a time when diversity and equal opportunity exist for all. Outside of the historically black colleges and universities, there are only 16 African-American head football coaches among all of the colleges in Divisions I, II and III. That is just 16, I repeat, 16 out of 616 programs across the country. During the 2006 season, only five of the Nation's Division I-A college football programs were led by black coaches. They accounted for just 4 percent of the coaching jobs while black players make up 46 percent of Division I football players. There are also just five black athletic directors at Division I-A schools and just four of the Nation's 119 schools have black presidents, and the number of black coaches is growing so slowly that at the current rate we will be closing in on the next century before we near representation or diversity. Mr. Chairman, this is unacceptable, it must change, and I want to thank the chairman for his vision. You have talked with me privately and you have told me where you want to take this subcommittee, and I appreciate your leadership very much. I yield back. Mr. Rush. Thank you. Mr. Burgess is recognized now for 5 minutes. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MICHAEL C. BURGESS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS Mr. Burgess. Thank you, Chairman Rush. Thank you for holding this hearing. Thanks to the witnesses for giving up their time to be with us today. I know it is painful to listen to opening statements from all members but I will be very, very brief. Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to point out, this also is my first hearing on this subcommittee. I know it just seems like I have been over here and been a problem for a lot longer but this is indeed my first hearing on this subcommittee. I hope that through the leadership and dedication of this subcommittee we can make some real and lasting impacts for the next generation of American athletes for our Nation. Today's hearing exemplifies some of the challenges that we still face in America. Glass ceilings should still not be prevalent in the 21st century but unfortunately we all know that they exist. Certainly more needs to be done but I think it is also important to acknowledge some of the steps that have been made already. Out of the four schools that I represent in the north Texas area, the University of North Texas, Texas Women's University, Texas Wesleyan University and North Central Texas College, we have a combined 13 minority head coaches that currently are teaching our young people in the 26th district. Texas Wesleyan table tennis head coach Jasnor Reed, who is an African-American woman, and I know, table tennis, but consider this: for the last 5 years she has led her team to the National Intercollegiate Championships. That is 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006. I had the opportunity to be there with them during the championships last year and, put it this way, it was much more exciting than I would have thought that a table tennis tournament would have been. There is a lot of activity during that sport. But I am proud of the strides that have been made in diversity in the collegiate sports in the north Texas area. I should point out that Johnny Jones is the men's basketball head coach at the University of North Texas. He is ably assisted by Chuck Taylor. Both of those are African-American individuals. Texas Women's University you might expect to have a large number of women coaches but their softball coach is a Hispanic woman as well. I encourage all of the universities to continue to do what they need to do to break down the glass ceiling once and for all. I do hope that we will exercise some care and caution that in our zeal to promote people we do not deplete the ranks of the smaller colleges and smaller universities of very capable African-American and minority mentors and role models, but hopefully, Mr. Chairman, this hearing will just be the starting point for this and I look forward to many more hearings on this subject in the future, and I will yield back. Mr. Rush. Thank you. I recognize Mr. Hill of Indiana for 5 minutes. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BARON P. HILL, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF INDIANA Mr. Hill of Indiana. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I would like to welcome my friend, Dr. Myles Brand, who is the president of the NCAA. Dr. Brand was also the president of Indiana University when I was in Congress for the 6 years previous to this last election, and I know him as a man of great integrity and someone that is very sensitive to this whole issue. I appreciate you taking the time out of your schedule to meet with us and discuss this important issue. Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for giving us an opportunity to discuss this important issue today. As we come to the end of Black History Month, it is appropriate that we continue the discussion of diversity and equality. I am especially pleased that we are seriously considering this issue within college sports. As a former college athlete, I want to ensure that every position, players and coaches alike, is open to anyone who is qualified. I also believe that there should be no artificial or racial boundaries regarding the hiring practices within the world of college sports. Sporting events promote unity more than almost any other cultural event in America. It is up to us all that we make sure that we do not neglect problems of diversity but rather address them head on so that sports can continue to bring us all together as a Nation. Dr. Brand, I want to applaud your efforts in trying to promote equality and diversity within the NCAA. I know that from the beginning you have been dedicated to the promotion of diversity within the NCAA. It is my hope that with these hearings we can build on progress you have made by identifying potential obstacles regarding the hiring practices of the NCAA members and remedies that might be taken to sure that sports continue to unite Americans both on and off the field. Mr. Chairman, I grew up in a small rural town in southern Indiana, Seymour, Indiana. This was back in the late 1960's and the early 1970's, and I remember all the civil rights talk and watching it on television. I can remember as a 16-year-old roughly from a white high school thinking at the time, what is all the fuss here. I didn't understand why this was going on. I then went on to graduate from high school and enrolled on a basketball scholarship at Furman University in Greenville, South Carolina. My roommate was an African-American by the name of Clyde Mays. I was shocked at the treatment of my roommate as we went out and about Greenville, SC, at the time. There were places that he couldn't go into, and it really was an eye opener for me. And my point in all this is, sometimes people like myself grow into the realization that discrimination still exists today even. I didn't know it back then but I sure got an eye opener when I went off to Greenville, SC, and so this is a very important issue that we need to be addressing. I had this same discussion with Dr. Brand a couple weeks ago in my office. I know that you are keenly aware that there is a problem that needs to be remedied and you are fully committed to making sure that happens. So Mr. Chairman, I echo what everybody else is saying. This is an important issue. Because of my life experience at Furman University in Greenville, SC, I am very sensitive to it myself, and I know that we are going to make these corrections as the months and year go forward. I appreciate the opportunity to speak to this issue, and I yield back the remainder of my time. Mr. Rush. Thank you. Ms. Schakowsky is recognized for 5 minutes. Ms. Schakowsky. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and it is a pleasure to see you in the chair on this great subcommittee, and also a real pleasure to welcome my special friend, Reverend Jackson, who has been an ally of mine. We have worked together for so many years. I am anxious to hear our witnesses testify but I just wanted to acknowledge that I am also proud that I came here to add some gender equity to this committee and to this discussion. I am going to put this statement in the record, which demonstrates my broad understanding of all things sports and the relationship now to the closing date of Black History Month and just yield back my time. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Ms. Schakowsky follows:] Prepared Statement of Hon. Janice D. Schakowsky, a Representative in Congress from the State of Illinois Thank you, Chairman Rush and Ranking Member Stearns for holding todays hearing on the lack of diverse representation in the leadership of college sports. I would also like to extend a special welcome to my dear friend, Reverend Jesse Jackson. It is so wonderful to have you here with us--and to have Chicago so well represented today. What a fitting way to close out this year's Black History Month, one that began with a historic sports moment. It was the first time that two African American coaches faced off in the Super Bowl. Had it only been one coach that made it--say Lovie Smith leading the Bears to a well-deserved victory--that, too, would have been history making. The story of Coaches Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith speak to the importance of diversity in leadership at the college level. Both started out as college-level coaches, And, when Coach Dungy was the head coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, he gave Coach Smith--then a secondary coach at Ohio State--a chance at pro-football by hiring Lovie as the linebacker-coach. If it had not been for their college coaching experience and Coach Dungy seeing the leadership in Lovie Smith, we might not have had the chance to share in that tremendously important moment. However, I must also say that I am disappointed that it is 2007-more than 43 years after this body passed civil rights legislation--and that only now we are making this kind of history. It is also alarming to know that Super Bowl XLI could be a historic blip on the radar screen because of the low numbers of African American coaches on the college level--who will be our future professional league coaches, According to the annual report card on diversity put together by Dr. Lapchick, one of our witnesses today, college sports arc receiving F's for lack of race and gender diversity in leadership positions--from conference commissioners to coaches. An F. What that grade says to me is that we are not learning our lessons and we need to do something to turn that grade around now. We cannot afford to miss elevating great and deserving coaches like Coaches Dungy and Smith because they did not have the opportunity to hone their skills at the college level. Clearly, we still have a long way to go to achieve true diversity at every leadership level in professional and collegiate sports. The low number of African-Americans in leadership positions is not because of a lack of talent or ability; it is solely because of a lack of opportunity. As we move forward, we must foster that opportunity and remove the obstacles that hold back some of the best and brightest coaches from reaching the highest levels of professional and collegiate sports. I look forward to hearing from today's witnesses and their suggestions on what we can do to break the coaching glass ceiling. Mr. Rush. Thank you to all the members. And now we will hear from our witnesses, and first of all, I want to introduce to this panel and to those who are present a man who I have loved for the last many, many decades, a person who has been instrumental in my life. Indeed, at a pivotal point in my life, he rescued me and actually to a great extent saved my life, literally saved my life, a man who is recognized world over as the foremost civil rights leader, the foremost humanitarian in the whole world. He has an enormous impact on all of us, on this Nation. He has an enormous impact in the sports area and he understands beyond most of our understanding the connection between sports and the commercial dimensions of sports. I am intrigued and excited about the subject matter that he discussed in an op-ed piece for the Chicago Sun-Times on the lack of people of color in athletic director and head coaching positions in college sports. I want to welcome to this subcommittee my friend, Reverend Jesse Louis Jackson. Our second witness is a person who I have recently met but have grown to respect very, very much because of his sincere commitment to this particular issue and his work on behalf of trying to end the discriminatory practices of the NCAA, a person who worked at the institution that I graduated from during the time that I was there and that person is Dr. Myles Brand. As the president of the NCAA, Dr. Brand has used his bully pulpit to be a very vocal proponent of increased diversity in the leadership rankings of college sports and a year and a half ago he is to be commended for creating the Office of Diversity and Inclusion to promote greater inclusion among the member schools. Dr. Brand, you are welcome to this subcommittee. STATEMENT OF REVEREND JESSE JACKSON, PRESIDENT, RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION Mr. Jackson. Thank you, Congressman Rush, and to members of the committee, thank you so much for allowing us to bring this important subject to the national agenda today. Let the record show that when African-American coaches do well, we should never say we are surprised but delighted. Only the ignorant are surprised. It is self-evident that we can coach football. We had this same drama, can a black be a center on the football team, initiates all plays, can a black be quarterback. Every position has been a major hurdle reflecting the social maladies in our culture. I was delighted to see Dungy and Lovie coach at Super Bowl time but I was torn over the fact that if Jake Gaither from Florida A & M had had that same opportunity to go across the street to Florida State, if Billy Robertson had that same opportunity at Grambling to go to LSU--that happened many years ago. We didn't learn to coach football last January. We are talking about barriers that lock people out, basically based upon race. I was glad to hear the Congressman from Arkansas extol these virtues on Coach Nolan Richardson, who won the NCAA championship, came in No. 2, this and that, the winningest coach. He had been blackballed. He can't coach. One of the winningest coaches in American basketball history goes from the top to the bottom for no rational reason. Here he sits today having coached the Panamanian team last year, preparing them for the rural games. What is up with the winningest coach in Arkansas who won the NCAA championship, goes to the top 4 four times can't get a job? It speaks loudly. We are here today in part because fair hiring is a civil rights issue. Title VII and title IX is why you have people of color in these schools and title XI is why you have women athletic teams because it is illegal not to. When we are protected by law, we gain progress. I am delighted, Congressman Hill, that you and Mays were classmates. He was a family friend really, both of us from Greenville, SC, but it was just amazing how we couldn't even while I was in school apply to Furman, and I grew up on University Ridge where Furman was housed, not because I couldn't pass the grades. I could not get admitted. We are fighting these barriers. Schools with Federal funds have civil rights obligations. Equal employment opportunity is a civil right, and the reason why there was some movement in the NFL, Mr. Chairman, was because of the Rooney Rule: you must at least consider a black. Democracy does not guarantee results; it guarantees opportunity. You must at least consider. And even with that, the 32 teams, four of the guys came from one team, Tony Dungy and Tomlin and Lovie and Herman, four guys from one team, and two guys from other teams. Even there they figure out ways to get around it. It is more cultural. It has nothing to do with capacity. I can't help but think that when Colorado was No. 1 2 years in a row that the defensive coach which was credited for giving them those victories, when Mr. McCartney resigned, he recommended Bob Simmons to replace him. It was so logical. They had been No. 1 2 years in a row. He was the head defensive coach. They closed doors and got Newhouser from UCLA, younger and far less resume, who later ended up being disgraced in some scheme up in Washington or something. Bob Simmons was sent off to Oklahoma State, a school with less investment, and ended up defeating, to make it real romantic and poetic, defeating the University of Colorado football team. Bob Simmons was qualified but he was turned away because of closed doors. No worse than University of Alabama. Coach Croom grew up in Tuscaloosa, hometown boy, All-American, University of Alabama, hometown, played under Bear Bryant, can't get better than that in Alabama, but when the deal went down, they chose Shula from Miami, who had almost zilch resume. He subsequently has been fired, by the way, and Croom went to Mississippi State. He had hometown credentials, All-American credentials, had been recommended to be hired as an NFL pro coach but got knocked out based upon that. Now, some progress has been made, Mr. Chairman, based on Dr. Brand's leadership of raising the academic standards to assure more graduation take place, and there is a penalty if you don't have a certain graduation rate but there is no penalty if you don't have black coaches, Latino coaches. There must be something that makes it a mandate to at least consider and to have some good reason why resume A that is superior goes beneath resume B, which may not hardly even exist. This thing is profoundly cultural. Part of what makes this such a big deal to us, why are blacks so successful in football, basketball, baseball, track, golf and tennis. It is hard to be a Division I starter. It is hard to be so good when you become All Conference better, to become All-American. It is very tough competition. Then to become a pro. Why are we so good at that which is so difficult to do where you must absolutely coordinate motor, cognitive skills under immense pressure, 40,000 jeering, 40,000, cheering? Why are we so good at what is so hard to do? Whenever the playing field is even, the rules are public and the goals are clear, we do well. If on that football field blacks had to run 12 yards for a first down to prove something extra and whites ran 8 yards for a first down because they inherited some yards, there are fights on the football field. As long as it is 10 yards for all first downs, 6 points for all touchdowns, we get along quite well. That does not apply just beyond that mark of where you hire coaches, athletic directors and college presidents. What makes this subject exciting to me finally, Mr. Chairman, is the good that these sports have done for America. Congress is more hung up really on the issue of race and its hiring practices in many ways that the athletic world, in part because this is a zero-sum game. You only have 435 Congressmen, 100 Senators and it is all a fight for those 535 slots. In this world of athletics, it is not a zero-sum game. Inclusion leads to growth. When there is growth, everybody wins, it leads to growth, and what excited me as I walked amongst the people at the Super Bowl game this year in Miami to see basic white mothers and their children and their husbands, the middle America, wearing black football coaches', black football players' jerseys and wearing Tony Dungy hats and to see blacks from Chicago wearing Brian Urlacher jerseys. What allows us to go beyond this dementing race crisis in athletics is because in this arena, this narrow arena, the playing field is equal except for coaches, athletics directors, and so if the victory of Dungy and Lovie means anything, it exposes a light on the obvious. The obvious is, blacks can coach football, basketball, baseball. They are not allowed to in the main because of lack of consideration. The incestuous recycling of who gets hired must be challenged because these schools are under the regulations of our government because they get Federal grants and somehow there must be hearings when they have these high- profile openings and no blacks are considered. There must be some reason why, and I submit to you, sir, that EEOC laws must apply here. Civil rights in hiring are as important as civil rights in grades. Thank you very much. [The prepared statement of Mr. Jackson appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] Mr. Rush. Dr. Brand. STATEMENT OF MYLES BRAND, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL COLLEGIATE ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION Mr. Brand. Chairman Rush, Ranking Member Stearns and other distinguished members of the subcommittee, I am Myles Brand, NCAA president. Thank you for holding this hearing on a critically important issue, and I am pleased to be on a panel with Reverend Jackson. There is much to be proud of in collegiate athletics. I am especially pleased with the improved academic success of African-American student-athletes. Today African-American male student-athletes are graduating at 11 percentage points better than other black males in the student body and African-American females are graduating 15 points better than their counterparts in the general student population. But we also have challenges. Chief among them, in my view, is the dismal record of hiring people of color as head coaches, especially in football. In my very first public speech as NCAA president more than 4 years ago, I said that one of the most egregious instances of lack of access was the low number of African-American head football coaches in Division I-A or the Bowl Championship Subdivision, as it is now called. When I made that statement in 2003, there were four African-American head football coaches in Division I-A when you exclude the historically black colleges and universities, the HBCUs. Today there are six. We have gained a grand total of two in 4 years. There are five more in Division I-AA, now called the Football Championship Subdivision, two in Division II and only one in Division III, which is our largest division of schools. That makes a total of 14 African-American head coaches in all of college football when the HBCUs are excluded. In Division I-A, 2.4 percent are head coaches where 55 percent of the student- athletes are minorities. Sadly, if the pace of progress remains the same, it will be more than 80 years before we reach a percentage that even approximates the number of African- Americans in the general population. As I have said on more occasions than I can count, this is not only unacceptable, it is unconscionably wrong. The NCAA cannot make the hires. The NCAA national office cannot mandate who is interviewed. Member institutions hire coaches and they are not about to cede authority and give up their autonomy to the NCAA national office to dictate either who they will hire or who they will interview in coaching or elsewhere. But that doesn't mean there is no role for the NCAA. Four years ago I began working with the Black Coaches Association, the BCA, to address inequities in the hiring process. The idea was that a more open and inclusive search would allow talent regardless of race to rise to the top and be hired. For 3 years now the BCA has prepared and made public its hiring report card that grades colleges and universities in Division I on their hiring processes. As a result of public disclosure, more than 30 percent of all candidates interviewed for head coaching positions over the last 3 years have been minorities. Even more striking is that 76 percent of all the openings over the last 3 years have had at least one minority candidate interviewed and more than three out of every four vacancies, a person of color was interviewed but only nine of the 81 openings in all of Division I have been filled with a minority candidate. Focusing media attention and expending energy on a collegiate version of the NFL's Rooney Rule not only ignores the success of the BCA hiring report card, it also diverts attention from the real issue, which is simply not enough hires. In addition to helping develop the hiring report card, the NCAA national office has developed three coaching academies to help prepare candidates for coaching positions. Academies go beyond the Xs and Os. The focus is on the other skills that are required to run a multimillion-dollar operation, hire and manage a staff of two dozen or more, organize and develop more than 100 student-athletes, recruit in competition with dozens of other teams for the best talent, help acquire donations for athletic and other departments in the university, and often to be the most visible person on campus. And oh, by the way, you have to win games. The most elite of these programs for expert coaches with 8 years' experience has had two of its graduates hired as head football coaches in the last 2 years and a third individual, a graduate of the NCAA's men's coaching academy, has also joined these ranks. Three of the last four minority hires have come from the NCAA academies. The coaching academies have made a difference, the BCA hiring report card has made a difference and yet not enough hires are being made. What is next? In my view, we must overcome two additional obstacles. We have to mitigate the risk-averse nature of those who make football hiring decisions and we have to improve the informal network so that minority coaches are included. Their names must be advanced when influential consultants are asked the question, who can do this job? Those who make recommendations and hires must be as comfortable with African-American football coaching candidates as they are with African-American basketball coaches who now occupy more than 25 percent of the head coaching jobs in Division I men's basketball. Incidentally, there is no Rooney Rule for basketball. Getting top candidates in front of athletics directors and others before the stress of hiring begins is the next push we must undertake. History was made on February 4 when two African-Americans coached their teams in the Super Bowl. Any institution focused on the values and success they represent would be proud to hire Lovie Smith or Tony Dungy as its head coach and both were coaches in college football but we let both get away. The next Lovie Smith or Tony Dungy is already in the pipeline. Talented minority coaches are on our campus in Division I. We simply have to hire them for the top jobs. I thank you for this opportunity. [The prepared statement of Mr. Brand appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] Mr. Rush. Thank you very much, Dr. Brand. Let me begin by asking you a couple of questions that I think are pretty relevant right now. Both of you have indicated that there is a real serious cabal in collegiate sports, really an old boys' network that excludes minorities from consideration and also from hiring. Can you describe for this subcommittee how that network, if you will, stands as a barrier to hiring of athletic directors and football head coaches? Mr. Brand. Yes. I think it is important to point out, Mr. Chairman, that the hiring process in universities is different from that in the professional leagues. There are a lot of hands on the wheel in college, and so it is not just the athletic director and the president getting together in almost all cases. There is a lot of information that goes through in terms of a search committee, in terms of input from alumni groups, in terms of consultants, and in terms of other football coaches too, who are, as you know, almost all white. As a result, all that information comes into the athletic director and the athletic directors have to make a decision that will affect their futures and so they have taken a very risk-averse position and have not been willing to hire African-Americans despite in many, many cases the noticeable and clear skill and experience of those individuals. So I think to move from the search process, which was getting better in the hiring, we are going to have to look at who is making the specific recommendations, where are the key points of change and leverage in that very complex process, and I know that firsthand, having been president of two universities. I have been involved in the hiring of head football and basketball coaches a number of times over. But sitting as a president, what happens is, you can help make the process more inclusive and that is why I think we are seeing so many more African-Americans interviewed, but most presidents don't know a lot about football or basketball and then take the advice of others, so we have to look at athletic directors and their committees and others who are providing that input and have a multi-pronged attack on that. Mr. Rush. Well, do you know if any of these presidents hire or have people on their staff who can be loosely classified or categorized as consultants on these specific matters of racial fairness in hiring at the athletic level? Mr. Brand. Yes. There are two types of people that do that. Almost all our major universities have an office of diversity in which they have--who oversee the process, not the particular candidate but will make sure the process is fair. We have to apply that affirmative action fair process to athletics just as we do to deans and faculty members and so on. We do it often in the rest of the university. Somehow we don't always do it in the case of athletics. And second, we have outside consultants who are hired to do the job who come in and they provide substantive advice. They give names. Mr. Rush. Reverend Jackson, do you care to respond? Mr. Jackson. Congressman, these same schools can find the players in the dingiest, most difficult circumstances. They can find the players. They can't find the guys who coach the players to make them qualified to play at this level of athletics. I mean, you go to X high school that is producing these great athletes and you look at their coach by and large in the city is African-American. The issue also is not to be colorblind but to be color caring. Race is an issue in hiring and recruiting. They will hire blacks to recruit to go into black neighborhoods and look for ballplayers like scouts and they hire them and put them on the staff to recruit, and what makes this--another concern, Congressman Rush, is that in this area, let us deal with, if a guy is a defensive coach and has a good defensive resume, there has to be points in that. If an offensive coach has a good resume, there must be points in that, and when you look at the Bob Simmons case in Colorado, of the Croom case in Alabama, resumes had no meaning, and somewhere outside of resumes, outside of objective criteria, I mean, the best defensive football coach in America for 2 years in terms of No. 1 couldn't get hired at that school. If you just look at the Shula versus Croom resume, it is not even any comparison. I would think that in the end you who are Congress people who allocate money to these schools must demand a standard for hiring and recruiting that is transparent. Without new rules-- we do best when the rules change. We were qualified to vote before 1965. Until the rules changed, we couldn't vote. We were qualified to play baseball before 1947 but until the rules changed--we need rules to protect us. We cannot depend upon the subjective whim of well-moneyed alumni groups that somehow operate outside of the university system. The president of the university must be responsible for who is hired, even though the coach often gets paid more than the president, I might add. Somehow we have almost run a kind of a parallel scheme here that takes the coach outside of the realm of the university mandate. I think that cannot be allowed to happen. Mr. Rush. Thank you. Mr. Stearns. Mr. Stearns. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was pleased that when I read the statement of Reverend Jackson he indicated what the real issue is here. Some people will talk about it being fairness but I was pleased that he mentioned in his opening statement when he said, ``They simply need to be given an opportunity,'' and obviously he is talking about the African- American individuals. When you look at Lovie Smith or Tony Dungy's resume and you see back in 1992 Lovie Smith was a linebacker coach and then in 1994 he was at the University of Tennessee, a defensive back coach, in 1995, defensive back coach, 1996 to 2000, linebacker coach, 2001 to 2003, defensive coordinator. Then he became head coach of the Chicago Bears. The same pattern is for Tony Dungy when he was talking about in 1988 he was the Pittsburgh Steelers defensive coordinator, 1992 to 1995, defensive coordinator, Minnesota Vikings, in 1996 to 2001 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, he was head coach and then he went to Indianapolis Colts where he was the head coach. Dr. Brand, you had indicated in basketball there was no Art Rooney Rule and yet we have seen in basketball the coaches. Is that what I understand you to say? Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. Mr. Stearns. OK. And we all know that the Art Rooney Rule from the Pittsburgh Steelers owner essentially guaranteed that when someone looked at a coach, there was a mandate that you at least have one African-American. Is that what I understand the Rooney Rule to be? Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. Mr. Stearns. Now, under this kind of situation, it seems to be working in basketball but not in football. Is that a fair statement? Mr. Brand. Yes. Mr. Stearns. And so clearly, the opportunities for African- Americans to make it in basketball are there and it is highly competitive and these athletes are extraordinarily successful, so in a simple way, you mentioned two reasons it is not making it in a broad sense. You said risk-averse and informal rules. Reverend Jackson doesn't want to have rules because he realizes if you don't have transparency and you have these rules, then people somehow are able to manipulate those rules and do what they want. So the transparency is what he is asking for. Now, is the transparency there in basketball that is not in football? Mr. Brand. No, actually there is more transparency right now in football than there is in basketball in hiring head coaches, and that is the result of the good work of the Black Coaches Association and their report card. They make public and they have for the last several years the entire interviewing process and who is being interviewed. What that has done is that we have produced on average 30 percent of the people interviewed for head football coaches in Division I are African-American. Seventy-six percent of all the searches have included amongst their final candidates for interviews African- Americans. We have now transparency in hiring African-American head football coaches more than we have in basketball, so that is part of the answer. Mr. Stearns. Well, then are you saying that the transparency is not the key then? Mr. Brand. It is not sufficient. It is necessary. We can't give it up but it is not sufficient. Mr. Stearns. Transparency in football, it is more transparent than it is in basketball? Mr. Brand. Yes. Mr. Stearns. But we are more successful in seeing the number of African-Americans in basketball? Mr. Brand. Yes. Mr. Stearns. So what gives? Mr. Brand. It is the hiring process. I believe it is how the recommendations are made to the president and the board in the universities. We really have to get inside that process. It is a complicated process. Sometimes alumni and boosters have excess control. Mr. Stearns. I understand that. It is a money game. Mr. Brand. I don't think that is always the case. I think there is risk-averse. There is a lack of knowledge of some very fine coaches and we have got to be able to increase that, so we have got to find a way to get inside those final recommendations. The transparency is there, sir. Mr. Jackson. Mr. Stearns, there is also a sense now--there is a kind of belief that black basketball coaches can recruit black kids better and can quote, unquote, handle them. There is a sense that there is kind of an expectation shift that is taking place on the basketball side. You mentioned Tony Dungy. He also, given the Rooney Rule, was asked to come to Green Bay to seek the job as an offensive coordinator and he was defensive, therefore he didn't make it. They asked him to come but Tony--Lovie Smith was Chicago's fourth choice. Nick Sabin was the first choice and couldn't work out team control. He took the job at the lowest price of any coach in the whole NFL to get a chance to coach. There is not a player on his bench that makes less money than he makes. He is the lowest paid person on the personnel and can't get a contract signed now after going to the Super Bowl. Mr. Stearns. If it is true in terms of recruiting for basketball, why wouldn't it be true for recruiting for football? Why wouldn't the African-American coach be much more successful at recruiting in football if using your argument that he does for basketball? Mr. Jackson. Ask the hirer, whoever is calling that shot as to the employer, the alumni group that weighs in. When you close the door at Colorado and you look at the resume of Newhouser behind that closed door, ask those people that question because that is who is making that decision that somehow blacks can't relate to alumni groups or they can't raise money, they can't do the beyond-the-football field stuff. So I think that what is clear is, there is no deficit of football capacity to coach but the will to hire, and I would think when we made the most progress when we were protected by law. I don't want to go any further where you have NCAA openings and what schools get Federal monies not to be accountable on some transparency in recruiting of coaches, not just recruiting of players process. Mr. Stearns. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Rush. Mr. Hill is recognized for 5 minutes. Mr. Hill of Indiana. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Brand, I was listening to your comments and was wondering, what stage in the process, whether it be the search committee, recruiting, what is the most important area that you need to focus your attention on in terms of trying to get this turned around? Mr. Brand. Yes. I think that is a central question. I couldn't agree more with Reverend Jackson. The will to hire is just not there right now, and I think you have to look at the final recommendation that comes to the president. I mean, although the president has responsibility and final authority, there is no question about that, but presidents by and large don't know a lot about college sports. They think they do but by and large they need good advice, and the athletic director and those who help the athletic director including consultants and others are providing that advice, and I think you have to go right to the heart of the decision-making process, the recommendations that are coming up the line at that crucial point, and that is where I would look for leverage. Mr. Hill of Indiana. OK. Reverend Jackson, in listening to your remarks, I am still not clear in my own mind why we are being successful in basketball but not football. I am drawing a blank here. Mr. Jackson. I am not sure. It could be--Nolan Richardson, who has been through this process, might be able to answer that question better. I think what excites me at one level today having grown up in South Carolina, when I look at University of Clemson, University of South Carolina, the whole State becomes orange and white versus red and white instead of black and white. Only athletics can take us to that euphoria, that is because of the rules, but wonder why they cannot get coaches. They get coaches on those teams to recruit those black players because they feel they have more access to the homes but not in fact. The alumni then decides can we take this leap of faith and trust and one would like to think that the success of Tony and Lovie has given more people the heart, quote, unquote, to take the leap, the risk, because the winningest percentage--I might add, the black coach's percentage is higher like the black kids, the athletes' graduate rates are higher than the average students. Black coaches' winning records are higher than their white counterparts. So everything about this says that something about this is irrational. The winningest coaches can't get the jobs. I can't believe--Nolan Richardson again, the guy from Arkansas, he is the No. 1 NCAA championship, he is the No. 2, No. 4 something, he is the--and can't get a job. What is wrong with that? Mr. Hill of Indiana.Well, I agree with you 100 percent. I am just at a loss as to why again it is--they are not hiring people like him in football but they are doing it in basketball. I mean, Indiana University has an African-American coach now that I think very highly of. Dr. Brand, would you care to offer your--I mean, you have been involved in this before. You know how the network works. Mr. Brand. Well, I hired the first African-American head coach in any sport while I was president of Indiana University and frankly, that was a hard barrier to break through and---- Mr. Hill of Indiana. Let me stop and ask, was this person that you hired recommended by your select committee? Mr. Brand. Yes. Mr. Hill of Indiana. OK. Mr. Brand. Yes, and I think it was a good recommendation. Obviously I went with it. He was a basketball coach, by the way. And the fact of the matter is, I think most presidents need that good advice and we have got to figure out a way to provide that advice. What we have in football like in basketball is a continuing repetition of the decision-making processes and those involved in the decision-making processes that don't allow for inclusion. We are caught in a small circle there and we have got to break out of it, and until we do that, until we get a critical mass of leadership as we do now in basketball coaches, we are going to be confined in this small circle and it doesn't work for these universities. They need the better talent. Mr. Jackson. Mr. Hill, the best news is that black coaches are qualified. They don't need to be taught to do it. They are qualified and they are winning. That is what gets the rub. They are qualified, it is self-evident, and winning. In qualifications, when winning is not enough, something irrational is cooked in and those persons who have those qualifications should be protected from those persons who present obvious barriers. Mr. Hill of Indiana. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you. Mr. Rush. Dr. Brand, if the search committee says hire, then where is the resistance? If the search committee makes the recommendation and the hire doesn't take place, then what is the barrier? Why doesn't it take place? Mr. Brand. Search committee recommendations come through the athletic director, who usually confers directly with the president and translates, if you like, that information from the search committee. Too few search committees are looking at just football expertise and are looking at other issues. Look, the elephant in the room is race and a number of search committees are concerned and treat that as a negative when they obviously should not. So we get that, and as that recommendation comes up to the president, he works directly with the athletic director who more often than not obviously is white and looking at the same group of candidates that they have looked at before. So I think it is that search process as the recommendation goes up that we have to figure out a way to break in. Mr. Rush. Mr. Terry. Mr. Terry. Well, let us follow up on that, Mr. Chairman, where my question is coming from. I think the two of you have identified and being experts in your field, I wouldn't disagree. I think the search process, the lack of knowledge by the president or chancellor who approves or the regents board then that approves later, their lack of expertise. So the issue is since we have identified one of the more significant aspects of the problem, what is the specific solution that can be reasonably adopted by the NCAA to make sure that the best- skilled coach is hired, especially if they are African- American. Doing a Rooney Rule in the NCAA, is there some way that we can make that by rule, not by legislation but by the NCAA to really encourage this? Mr. Brand. Now, remember, the Rooney Rule only mandates a best practice for interviews. We already have that. In fact---- Mr. Terry. And Reverend Jackson even exposed how that can be abused. Mr. Brand. Right, so that is not where the answer lies. I mean, where I think the answer is lying is making sure that there is direct and informal contact and it can't just be from the national office of the NCAA. For example, the conferences and the conference commissioners have begun to hold informal meetings in June and other times of the year in order to bring together athletic directors and potential candidates who are African-American head coaches. Our coaches' academies not only serve some professional development opportunities but they also bring people together in the same room. We need to be able to break down those social and informal barriers so that we know, so that the ADs and others who are making the decisions understand and can interact with these leading coaches. Mr. Jackson. The reason I am so strong, Congressman, on the rules is that you do benefit people that you know, trust, like and have to--know, trust, like, have to. If we have to be considered, then we are in the game. If it based on know, trust and like, we don't get in the circle. There is a dimension just beyond know, like, trust, have to. If you get Federal monies for that school and they are hiring people, there is something called EEOC, that is called fairness in hiring. That does not guarantee that the person gets the job. It guarantees transparency in the consideration, and to that extent, you begin to move in with the have-to dimension. Mr. Terry. In that regard, does that mean that university hiring within an athletic department is exempt from EEOC review currently? Mr. Brand. No. Mr. Terry. I didn't think they were. Mr. Jackson. Apparently they are. Mr. Brand. No---- Mr. Terry. Unless a complaint is filed. Mr. Brand. EEOC says that in extraordinary circumstances you can step out of your normal hiring practices. Unfortunately, that is used too much and is an excuse. So it is within the law but it is being abused, to be frank about it. Mr. Terry. All right. Then there is maybe some way or something that we could do to look at it but I think other regards it needs to be dealt with by some institutional changes within the NCAA or, as you said, Dr. Brand, the conferences themselves. In my minute and a half that is left, just as a college football fan, it appears to me just over the last 10 to 20 years even though there are white head coaches, even at the University of Nebraska, the vast majority of assistants, offensive, defensive coordinators are African-American. Are we seeing that tipping point coming where just the vast--there is going to be so many more highly qualified coordinators that are from major programs that are going to be the obvious choice for the head coaching position, that we are just going to see a more natural hiring of African-American coaches? I would like your comments both from Reverend Jackson and Dr. Brand. Mr. Brand. I would hope so but I am at this point not as optimistic as I would like. I mean, it is true that the pipelines are filling up and that is a very positive sign but until we actually make the hires, we won't reach the tipping point. We are not close to the tipping point right now. We don't have the critical mass. Mr. Jackson. Being at this hearing, Congressman Rush, is making this a public discussion. We have to put light on this discussion. It is absurd. When you look at Lovie being the fourth choice and he takes them all the way to the top and after he won the championship last year in this area they kept him from a pay raise. This time he went all the way to the Super Bowl, and I am glad that the writers in this sense, white female writers said it is beginning to smell like race. If Bobby Rush or I had said that, it would take on another, here you go jumping again, but is becoming obvious that something is not passing the smell test when the Super Bowl coach cannot get paid more than his players. It is that little tweak there that means that public pressure becomes a factor in forcing people to think, because if the Chicago Bears fans, they say he is the guy, and in Indiana, Dungy is the guy. So it is that--that is the tipping point that must be broken and I think public pressure and your inquiry--if they know that there is a new hire to be taking place and that your eyes are on them for transparency, that would be a help. Just that alone would be a help. Mr. Terry. Thank you. Mr. Rush. Mr. Whitfield, you are recognized for 5 minutes. Mr. Whitfield. Thank you, Chairman Rush, and Reverend Jackson and Dr. Brand, we appreciate both of you being with us this morning on this important subject. Like other members, I certainly enjoy professional sports and collegiate sports, and I would just ask you, what is the average salary--maybe Reverend Jackson can answer this question--the average salary of a head coach in the NFL today? Mr. Jackson. I do not know. All I do know is, it has been widely published that the lowest salary is Lovie Smith, who took the team to the Super Bowl. That is all I know. Mr. Whitfield. And did you make the comment that he was unable to get a new contract signed or something? Mr. Jackson. It is being negotiated right now, and it is becoming an issue in the public because it is so absurd right now. He is the guy who is the key man obviously from his success and yet far inferior records are getting better paid but not the same kind of public back and forth. Mr. Whitfield. And Dr. Brand, do you all keep records of the race of athletic directors at, say, Division I colleges around the country? Mr. Brand. Yes, we do. The situation for ADs is a little different from head football coaches. We are at the beginning of seeing some serious movement and in particular several African-American athletic directors are now at the very best jobs and are moving between positions, so we are close to the tipping point. They are not there yet but we are seeing in athletic directors some serious positive movement. Mr. Whitfield. How many Division I schools are there? Mr. Brand. There are 119 I-A schools. Mr. Whitfield. And of those 119, how many African-Americans would be the athletic directors? Mr. Brand. I think it is around 13. I am not 100 percent sure of that number but I think it is--more importantly, it has increased and importantly too they are at some of the very best schools. Mr. Whitfield. Now, you obviously have a lot of contact with university presidents and university athletic directors. Is this an issue that they seem to be talking a lot about or is it just sort of something that comes up periodically or---- Mr. Brand. I think there is general recognition and concern but not enough debate and discussion. Mr. Whitfield. Right. How many employees do you all have at the NCAA? Mr. Brand. Now, remember, there is great confusion about who the NCAA is. Mr. Whitfield. OK. Mr. Brand. The national office has about 350 employees. They are all staff members, myself included. I have no votes on any of these issues. We service the larger population. That larger population consists of over 1,000 schools and universities and the hiring decisions are being made on the campuses. The NCAA national office has no authority to recommend or to make any hires. Mr. Whitfield. OK. So the 300 or so at the headquarters, you all are simply the administrators of the rules and regulations and provide guidelines? Mr. Brand. Yes, sir. That doesn't stop me from speaking out though. Mr. Whitfield. And at the NCAA headquarters, what percent would be African-American employees, would you say? Mr. Brand. I will ask my colleague but I think it is over a quarter. Yes, about a quarter, including leadership positions, I should say. Mr. Whitfield. And how long have you been the head of the NCAA? Mr. Brand. Four years, sir. Mr. Whitfield. So have you enjoyed the experience? Mr. Brand. Yes, I have. Mr. Whitfield. I am not going to get into the University of Illinois Ilini issue but--OK, Mr. Rush. I yield back the balance of my time. Mr. Rush. We recognize the ranking member for an additional question. Mr. Stearns. Mr. Chairman, you were asking Dr. Brand a couple things which I thought were pertinent, and I would like to find out, what is your feeling on the influence that the alumni has in the selection of the football coaches, because we have talked about the athletic director, the president, and you indicated the president probably has no knowledge of who to hire; he relegates this to the athletic director. But it wasn't clear to me in your conversation your feelings about the alumni department. Mr. Brand. That is a very important question, I think. I think on some campuses, and it is variable by campus because there are different processes on each campus. It is variable by campus. On some campuses, they have a great deal of influence. On most campuses, the large majority, they have modest or little influence. So you really--I read an article not long ago, an op-ed in the New York Times, that said it was the alumni group or the booster groups that were the problematic groups, and that is conceivable. It would be true on some campuses but I would think it would be a small proportion of the campuses, so we have to be careful not to exaggerate their role in the decision-making. Mr. Stearns. I just wanted to ask Reverend Jackson the same question I asked Dr. Brand, he was talking about the athletic directors and the president and the alumni and trying to understand this transparency, and I was asking him what the influence of the alumni was, and you perhaps may have an opinion of the alumni's participation and their decision-making process in this whole process. Mr. Jackson. Well, they are the ones that pay the coaches the exorbitant salaries, oftentimes outside and beyond what the presidents make. Mr. Stearns. Yeah, they make a lot more than the president. Mr. Jackson. Well, they do, and they are the ones that offer the coach the radio and the TV commercial deal. They bring to the table lots of money to influence the decisions and all you can do is to, A, recognize that that big money factor is a huge factor. Mr. Stearns. Is it critical, do you think? Would you say it is critical in the decision process? Mr. Jackson. It may be the biggest factor because you are not hiring a coach to be a physical education teacher. You are not hiring him to be a professor. You are hiring him to coach the ball team and that is its own profession. Mr. Stearns. Dr. Brand, Reverend Jackson says he thinks it is critical, perhaps the reason that a lot of these coaches selected. Would you agree with that? Mr. Brand. On this particular issue, in my own experience I would not say that that is the case. However, on some campuses, often very high-profile coaching positions, it is critical but on a large majority of campuses in my experience and talking to many presidents, it is a factor but not the critical factor. Mr. Jackson. Dr. Brand is different. You must understand. This guy got rid of Bobby Knight so he is different. He is not like other people. Mr. Rush. With that note, we are going to conclude this first panel. I want to really thank our witnesses for their extraordinary testimony and we certainly will commit to continue to look into this area and provide what we hope will be some remedies for this situation that currently exists. Thank you very much. We will call our next panel. I want to welcome, and this committee wants to welcome this panel of expert individuals who have shared so much of their lives that they experienced with America. I want to first of all, from my left and your right, I want to welcome specifically Dr. Fitzgerald Hill, who is the president of Arkansas Baptist College. Dr. Hill is a former head coach of the football team there at San Jose State. Dr. Hill was an assistant head coach at the University of Arkansas football team. He has done extensive academic work on this particular subject matter. Next, Dr. Floyd Keith is the executive director of the Black Coaches Association. Mr. Keith can describe the difficulties and barriers African-American coaches face when trying to move up the coaching ranks and obtain the top head coaching positions of college sports teams. Our next witness is Dr. Richard Lapchick, who is the chair of the DeVos Sports Management Program and director of the Institute for Ethics and Diversity in Sports at the University of Central Florida. Dr. Lapchick has done extensive work as an academician and as an advocate for diversity in college sports and will present a macro perspective including the results of his annual ``race and gender report cards for college sports.'' Our next witness has been identified and talked about earlier by the earlier witnesses. He is none other than the one and only Dr. Nolan Richardson, who is the former head coach at the University of Arkansas in basketball. Coach Richardson was the head coach of the Arkansas Razorbacks when they won the national championship in college sports at the Division I level, and despite his enormous success as was indicated earlier, he took his team to the Final Four three times and he won the National Coach of the Year honors in 1994. The University of Arkansas fired him in 2002, and we would like to hear his testimony regarding that. Finally, Tim Weiser, who is the director of department of athletics at the Kansas State University. Mr. Weiser is also the incoming president of Division I-A Athletic Directors Association. Mr. Weiser recently hired Ron Prince as head coach of the Kansas State University football team, making Mr. Prince one of the only seven African-American head coaches in Division I-A college football. We welcome him and his testimony also. We will begin with opening statements for 5 minutes from our witnesses, and we will start with Dr. Hill. Dr. Hill, would you please give us your opening statement for 5 minutes? STATEMENT OF FITZGERALD HILL PRESIDENT, ARKANSAS BAPTIST COLLEGE Mr. Hill. Thank you, Chairman Rush, and Ranking Member Stearns and other distinguished members of the subcommittee, and I appreciate the opportunity to share my personal experiences with you today. You have heard the stats and I am not going to elaborate on that. But this is very personal to me because I was in this profession for 20 years and this is something that has weighed heavily on my heart. I think if we go back and look, and I am going to share a little story as head football coach at San Jose State, we were coming off a very positive 2 years. Our third year, we had some problems and didn't win as many games as thought, but as we stood at the boosters meeting which Mr. Stearns had referenced to what the importance of the boosters that get involved in the hiring process, I recently hired a new white defensive coordinator after replacing a black defensive coordinator. So after a few glasses of wine, a booster came over to me and said Coach Hill, a couple of boosters and I, we have been talking, we have been thinking and we think that you are going to turn the program around now. He said we just had a discussion a few weeks ago and we think one reason that you were not more successful is because you had too many African-American assistants on your staff. I said oh, really. I said, well, it is interesting that you would say that. I said have you researched the success of the program over the last 3 years versus the success of the program 2 years previously of the two previous head football coaches, who happened to be white. I said if you know Coach John Ralston, who is a Hall of Fame coach, served as head coach at San Jose State for 3 years, who is now in the Hall of Fame, and then he named his own successor, David Baldwin basically, and I said did you check their winning percentages, and he said no, I haven't done that. I said if you go back and look at that real closely, you will see that my winning percentage is better than their winning percentage after 3 years. So with that being said, I want to ask you this question: after those first 3 years of those individuals, did you go back and tell Coach Ralston and Coach Baldwin that they would have won more games had they had more white coaches. And the booster situation has a lot to do with what we are dealing with today, and I think in my opening testimony I would like to say how the story of the effects of race is in the numbers and the history of the hires. I mean, you don't have to say anything, just look at the statistics. Race continues to influence the decision-making process for head coaches and coordinators positions. To explain the effects, consider this. What if Vince Lombardi and Bear Bryant were born with one-tenth of African-American blood in their veins? Where would their coaching careers have taken them? The same holds true for Bud Wilkinson, Woody Hayes, Frank Broyles and Darrell Roll. In the five Bowl Champion Series (BCS) games following the 2006 season, the 10 head coaches were all white. How long will it be before two African-American coaches play each other in the national champion game? We don't know. At the conclusion of the 2006 season, there were 23 vacancies. One African-American was hired and he wasn't their first choice. Since 1992, there have been 437 head coaching vacancies at Division I level. African-American coaches have been selected a total of 26 times with 12 hirings occurring after the 1996 season. With those numbers, there are those who claim that equal opportunity is available to all regardless of color, but if they analyze the data, they would be amazed that more African-Americans have served our president as a Secretary of State than have worked as head football coach in the Southeastern Conference. I am so thankful that General Powell and Secretary Rice had a goal of emulating Henry Kissinger instead of Bear Bryant. The unconscious employment barriers of these problems are evident when you listen to Roy Kramer, who served as commissioner of SEC for 12 years, and in 1997 Roy Kramer told the Washington Post that the SEC schools were hiring equally across the board. Well, if Coach Kramer and others like him looked at the situation realistically, they would realize that their definition for equitable access in the coaching profession was at least grossly distorted and at most is a factual lie. The NFL has made tremendous progress with the Rooney Rule but for the NCAA to merely match the NFL's progress in this area, college football would have to hire 21 more African-American head coaches tomorrow. That is hard to imagine when considering that there is fewer African-American head coaches than there were 10 years ago, which concludes that racial equality is not progressing forward, it is actually going backwards. In football terms, that is called a fumble. Thanks to Jimmy ``the Greek'' Snyder, which really brings these comments to light with his comment back in 1988 and he said, ``If all African-American coaches take over all the coaching jobs like everybody wants them to, there is not going to be anything left for white coaches.'' This is 2007. That statement was made in 1988. We have to tackle the barriers so that black coaches can coach. They want what everybody else wants, an opportunity to do that. I am fortunate that I had the opportunity to do that and I hope that my peers will get that chance to do the same. Thank you so very much for allowing the testimony. [The prepared statement of Mr. Hill appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] Mr. Rush. Thank you. Mr. Keith. STATEMENT OF FLOYD KEITH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BLACK COACHES ASSOCIATION Mr. Keith. On behalf of the Black Coaches Association, I would like to thank the Committee on Energy and Commerce and particularly the Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection and you, Chairman Rush, for initiating this hearing regarding the lack of diversity in leadership positions within the NCAA collegiate sports. I am proud to represent more than 4,000 members of our association who entrust me with this opportunity to dialog on this issue. The Black Coaches Association is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt, nonprofit organization created for the primary purpose of fostering the growth and development of ethnic minorities at all levels of sports, both nationally and internationally. Our mission is threefold: to address significant issues pertaining to the participation and employment of minorities in sport, to assist minorities aspiring to have a career in athletics through educational and professional development programs and scholarships and to provide youth and diverse communities the opportunity to interact positively with the BCA. This statement specifically relates to the dire and disparate representation of African-Americans in roles of leadership within the NCAA. Since 1987, and especially beginning with the fall of 2002, the BCA has been hands-on in the effort to implement positive and proactive initiatives to address this concern. Dating back to 2003, on four previous occasions, I have personally voiced this concern on behalf of the association to members of Congress at the Congressional Black Caucus in 2004, the annual legislative conference in 2004, and in 2005, the National Black Caucus of State Legislators. I applaud this committee. Dr. Lapchick will share with you the stark reality of statistical facts regarding participation and employment opportunities. One statistic I will definitely share with you which I am sure will get your attention is this. Recognize today that a candidate of color has a far great chance to become a general in the United States Army at 83 percent with 26 percent participation than becoming president at any NCAA Division I-A institution, which is 3.4, or being named head football coach, which is 3.6, or women's basketball coach, which is 7.7, for any NCAA Division I program as well as an associate athletic director at 8 percent for any institution or faculty rep at 7.6 or being named commissioner of any NCAA athletic conference, which is zero percent. You have a better chance of being Colin Powell. The game plan for the BCA has been addressed and centered on a goal-oriented approach which has been framed on knowledge, accountability and political influence and financial influence. The knowledge component has been addressed in three ways: first, by our continuing efforts to expose and report accurate statistical analysis of the issue. Second, these statistical data are then complemented by providing intercollegiate decision-makers with lists of capable candidates for head coaching and athletic director openings. We also understand the necessary to both acknowledge and increase the numbers of African-Americans in the candidate pool. For the past 5 years the BCA has made the diligent effort to provide capable candidate lists for Division I head coaching openings in football to collegiate athletic directors and presidents for every opening. We have asked that this information be received with an open mind with the insistence that an honest consideration of applicants of color and gender would be given. It will be difficult, if not impossible, for change to occur if decision-makers do not expand their knowledge and awareness of potential candidates beyond their often utilized comfort zone. The third piece is educating the general public regarding the unfounded myths of people of color and the unspoken concerns of the negative effect upon financial giving and corporate sponsorships that is also a function of knowledge. The BCA believes accountability is fundamental in any formula dedicated to altering social injustice. Throughout the history of our United States, the resolution of civil rights issues has always required accountability. The role of the BCA's hiring report card, which I will discuss shortly, has served as our instrument of accountability to date. Just as title IX opened doors for NCAA women's athletics, we believe title VII may be necessary to drive this issue to the forefront and fulfill the accountability requirement. History has proven that in order for any significant progress to be made in eradicating a social injustice, legal action has been the catalyst for change. The final category is that political and financial influence reveal a harsh reality which is present in all high- profile searches. Who knows who is much more important that who you know. It would be naive for us to think we can disregard the power of influence of these components. Increasing the candidate pool, I will address that briefly. Since the fall of 2002, we have attempted to increase the pool of candidates with the awareness of capable candidates lists for the positions of head football coach and basketball coach as well as athletic director. This resource was initiated as a collaborative effort between the BCA and the NCAA's minority opportunities interest committee coupled with recommendations from high-profile coaches and administrators in collegiate athletics. Myles Brand has supported this process. Our lists are distributed in two ways. As a subscriber to the BCA's online job line, a candidate list may be viewed by representatives of the institution seeking applicants. Second, for the Division I head coaching openings in Division I football and women's basketball and for athletic director searches, both a general and specific candidate list is provided directly to the institutional athletic director and president via a hiring report card package which we sent. Great strides have been made in professional development. The aforementioned coaches academies that have been developed by the NCAA at Myles Brand's blessing and with the support of the BCA and the American Football Coaches Association and the NFL are going a long way to provide new candidates for intercollegiate coaching positions but this may not be enough. Mr. Rush. Mr. Keith, would you bring your conclusion, please? Mr. Keith. We have been working also to confront myths, improving the search process with our aforementioned hiring report card, which is already in the record, sir, and title VII implications we feel can be utilized to advance this issue. Thank you very much. [The prepared statement of Mr. Keith appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] Mr. Rush. We will make sure that the remainder of your testimony is included into the record. Dr. Lapchick, welcome. STATEMENT OF RICHARD LAPCHICK, CHAIR, DEVOS SPORTS MANAGEMENT PROGRAM Mr. Lapchick. Thank you very much, Congressman, and we really appreciate the fact that you have convened these hearings. I was one of the people who testified when Congressman Towns and Senator Bradley put forth the Student- Athlete Right to Know Act many years ago and that has had a tremendous effect and I think today's hearing have that same potential effect on an equally critical issue. I think we have a rare opportunity, everybody has alluded to it, because of the Super Bowl and the two coaches who were in that game and one African-American coach now a Super Bowl champion. A lot of people were surprised that an event actually taking place in Black History Month made history in Black History Month. Today is the last day of Black History Month and the question is, will we remember what happened and the facts? Most people were surprised when I mentioned that in the history of the National Basketball Association, only one time have two African-American head coaches faced each other in an NBA championship. There has never been two in a World Series. There has never been two in the final men's championship or women's championship game in college basketball. There has never been two African-American head coaches in any BCS bowl game. This was a rare, rare event as has been noted. And the question is, do we remember the names of those coaches who broke those barriers? Probably not. Do we remember the dates when they broke the barriers? In fact, in the NBA it was Al Attles and K.C. Jones in the 1974 NBA championship. Prior to that time, only five African- Americans had ever been head coaches in the NBA. Since then, 46 African-Americans have been head coaches. When Nolan Richardson, John Thompson and Tubby Smith led their teams to NCAA championships, prior to John Thompson's victory with Georgetown, there has been only a handful of African-American head coaches in the college ranks. Now with 25 percent of Division I basketball coaches being African-American, it is a completely different landscape. In the NBA and the NFL, we barely even notice when an African- American is hired or fired because the doors seem so wide open. Obviously that is not the case in college football, and while we have spent a lot of time on college football, I also want to paint a picture of all of college sport because the restrictions are simply not limited in the area of football. We have in terms of student-athletes plenty of opportunity. And these are Divisions I, II and III, respectively, the statistics I will give you. Twenty-one percent of Division I student- athletes are African-American, 18 percent in Division II, 7 percent in Division III. We have more than a majority in college basketball and nearly a majority in college football. Nearly 44 percent of women playing college basketball are now African-American, an all-time record. When we look at the positions of who is running those sports, the picture changes, and that has been alluded to in cases so far. Every one of the Division I-A conference commissioners are white men. Every one of the Division I conference commissioners excluding the historically black colleges and universities are white. In the coaching ranks, we talked about basketball and plenty of opportunity. We have talked about football. College baseball, 4.1 percent of the head coaches in college baseball are people of color. Across three divisions, these are the percentage of whites holding those head coaching positions. Division I--this is all sports-- 90.6 percent; Division II, 89.5 percent; Division III, 93.4 percent. The percentage who hold those head coaching positions in college football are actually higher than they are for African-American head coaches in Divisions II and III. In fact, for me the most startling statistic, Congressmen, is that there are more women coaching men's teams in Division III than there are African-Americans coaching men's teams in Division III. There is a virtual lockout of opportunity for African-Americans in those coaching ranks. When we come to the college president ranks, you have heard already that 94 percent are African- American. When we look at the athletic director ranks, 95 percent, 94 percent, 93.2 percent at the three different levels are all held by white men. There is an impression that there are lots of people in the pipeline in the associate athletic director positions ready to step up. The percentages of whites controlling those positions are 91 percent, 89 percent and 92 percent in the three respective divisions. It was alluded to by Congressman Terry before that the majority of assistant coaches at the coaching ranks in college football are African-American. The reality is that that is simply not true. There is not one division that has less than 80 percent of the assistant coaches who are white and the opportunities just are not there across the board at all positions and I think what it calls for is tools that we simply don't have in college sport because whatever we have isn't working, and Dr. Brand has been a tremendous leader on this issue. He has done great things in the NCAA including who has brought into the NCAA but he hasn't had the ability as the NCAA president with the bully pulpit to really make significant changes, and I think that is quite obvious to me, and I know that there is resistance to it at the level of the NCAA, that the Rooney Rule has made a tremendous difference. We went from two to seven African-American head coaches in the National Football League. Most people forget that 2 years prior to the Rooney Rule, Bud Selig implemented a similar rule without a name and Major League Baseball went from three to nine managers of color in Major League Baseball and yet you heard Dr. Hill said that we actually have less head football coaches in college sport now than we had 10 years ago when we had eight Division I-A head coaches. The situation is worse now than it was 10 years ago. I think the Rooney Rule, I think title VII lawsuits, I think the whole series of some of the things that the NCAA is already doing will be helpful but I think the keys are getting more tools and having these congressional hearings are certainly a start in the right direction, and I thank you for listening. [The prepared statement of Mr. Lapchick appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] Mr. Rush. Coach Richardson. STATEMENT OF NOLAN RICHARDSON, FORMER COACH, UNIVERSITY OF ARKANSAS BASKETBALL TEAM Mr. Richardson. I want to thank the committee and Congressman Rush for inviting me up. On this day 5 years ago, the last day of Black History Month, I was fired on this day, so this is an anniversary date for me. I thought about it when I was sitting in the motel room. On this day 5 years ago I was sitting listening to two white males determine my fate in coaching athletics and basketball and being an assistant athletic director. It always has been my burden to prove that I suffered at the hands of discrimination while working at the University of Arkansas as the men's basketball coach. I believe that my cries for equality fell on deaf ears. My immediate superiors did not care about what I had to say. Of course, since they were the offenders, especially one, this did not stop me from continuing to point out the overt discrimination I had to endure during those 17 years. I had not received the greatest contract. The numerous bonuses that other coaches, which were basically white, particularly football, would make-- or have better contracts that I had when I had been working extremely hard having a building built at the University of Arkansas that seated almost 20,000 fans. Tickets all sold out, from 5,000 to 8,000 on the waiting list for tickets to Razorbacks basketball games. And yet, when it was contract time, my contract seemed to the hardest to fill or to complete year in and year out. I had to work extremely hard with an agent to try to bring that to a halt. I also in 1990 became assistant athletic director until 2000. That is 10 years. And in those 10 years, I never once was invited to a meeting and I was one of the assistant athletic directors. Not only was I an assistant athletic director at the University of Arkansas, I was also an assistant athletic director at Tulsa University where the young man that was in the Super Bowl was one of our players and football coach, Lovie Smith. I knew him back then. I was really proud of him. Prior to that, I was an athletic director at the junior college. So my life was to become a basketball coach and work my way up and to become an athletic director and yet I was stonewalled at the point of being a token for the University of Arkansas because of affirmative action. When asked the question how many African-Americans are on your staff, he could easily say yes, we got one and his name is Nolan Richardson, which I had no authority on anything. I didn't even once have a chance to be involved with decision- making policies. After being fired, I wasn't even allowed to coach my team the last game of the season. I was approached by the athletic director and chancellor to bow out and say to the fans and to the people of Arkansas that I was tired and I wanted to spend more time with my family and they were to buy me out and give me a little job and pull the fans back together. They fired me because they say I made a statement that affected the fans but yet I am offered a job to keep my mouth shut and not be allowed to coach my team if I agreed not to do it, and of course, I did not agree. So there was no real equality in the terms of things that happened to Nolan Richardson on that campus as opposed to my white counterpart coaches. I made a statement and it was held against me and it didn't matter. The statement that I made is that my great-great- grandparents came over on the boat; I did not. I expect to be treated differently than they were. I did make another statement that there was no one in that room that looked like me. Everyone, the media, everyone in Arkansas was lily-white so they had their own reasons for making me look like the bad guy. So when I sit and listen to the people that made these statements, there is no question, no question that in all the major universities, that the alums or boosters are in control. The only State that I really give creed to is Oklahoma, and the reason is because when I was at Tulsa University, I happened to be the only African-American in that area but by the time my team did what they did, Oklahoma had hired a football coach, Oklahoma University hired a basketball coach, Oklahoma State hired a African-American coach that we talked about, Bob Simmons, and they also hired a black coach in basketball. That is the only State that I know of that have shared their football and basketball with African-Americans. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Mr. Richardson appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] Mr. Rush. Mr. Weiser. STATEMENT OF TIM WEISER, DIRECTOR, DEPARTMENT OF ATHLETICS, KANSAS STATE UNIVERSITY Mr. Weiser. Chairman Rush, distinguished members of the subcommittee, good morning and thank you for allowing me this opportunity to address the issue of diversity in the positions of collegiate athletic directors and head coaches in Division I-A of NCAA. My name is Tim Weiser. I was asked to speak with you today specifically because the institution I represent as director of athletics, Kansas State University of the Big 12, is one of only six Division I-A athletics programs to have an African- American in position as head football coach. Ron Prince was hired in December 2005 in place of the retiring Bill Snyder, who in his 17-year career was credited with what has been called the greatest turnaround in college football history. Coach Prince has quickly made his own mark producing a winning record and leading the Wildcats to the Texas Bowl on his first season. I believe I also can offer insight to this subcommittee on the topic before us because of my history of diversity in hiring head coaches as well as my position representing the Division I-A Athletic Directors Association as the incoming president. This background allows me within my personal experiences to reflect upon current and historical practices in our profession that are relevant to today's discussion. As I begin my 25th year in collegiate athletic administration, the past 20 as director of athletics at four different institutions, I have been blessed to be part of my achievements and milestones. In my first experience at Wichita State, I had the opportunity to work with Willie Jeffries, the first African-American head football coach in Division I-A history. I am certain that as a 24-year-old breaking into the athletic business that those experiences helped shape my understanding of the importance of diversity within an athletics department. Once I became an athletics director and was in a position of authority for hiring head coaches and staff, I selected the first ever African-American head basketball coach at both Eastern Michigan University and Colorado State University. Ron Prince is the first African- American head football coach in Kansas State history. I believe it important for this subcommittee to understand that in each of these appointments, the decision I made was based on the belief of who I thought was the best fit for the particular institution and most qualified candidate for the job. This has always been the ultimate factor in my decision- making process for hiring coaches. As the incoming president of Division I Athletic Directors Association, I am encouraged by what I see as an evolution within my profession. The business is changing rapidly. There may have been a time when an athletics director was a former coach or a favored son of the institution but as the enterprises have grown and the financial implications have become so significant, the job now requires skill sets and new ways of thinking involving leadership, counseling, personnel management, fundraising and much more. I believe the ultimate goal of an athletics director is to provide within the means of the particular institution the necessary support and resources to give each student-athlete his or her best opportunity to graduate with a meaningful degree and be adequately prepared for a successful life to become leaders and contributors to our Nation. Our profession is looked up now in large part like any other multimillion dollar business enterprise requiring progressive and inclusive processes that allow for growth in many ways that did not exist in years past. A constant in the role of athletics director, not unlike that of any CEO of a corporation, is the importance of making good decisions in the hiring of head coaches. We are defined in large part by the choices we made for our head football and basketball coaches because we are all seeking to discover that man or woman who can succeed in building a championship program. You have asked me here today because you are looking for answers as to why there aren't more than six African-American head football coaches at the highest level of the NCAA. Clearly, the growth in this area has been slow and I can only testify to my own actions. However, as I look at the sport of men's basketball and the growth in the number of African- American head coaches in place, I am encouraged that similar progress can be achieved but steps and incentives for progressive leadership need to be put in place for us to move forward. It will take the guidance of Myles Brand, all university presidents and athletics directors and even head football coaches themselves to create an environment that expands the pool of qualified candidates and provide more networking opportunities to allow those individuals to become more widely known for consideration as has become the practice in the NCAA and the NFL. In fact, a better dialog between the college hierarchy and that of the NFL, which is tapping into the talent pool of minority collegiate coaches to allow for discussion of reciprocal arrangements regarding the interviewing and hiring processes currently in place could prove beneficial. Additionally, legislation to provide financial incentives for those NCAA member institutions to employment minority head coaches and athletic directors could be drafted by adoption by our organization. This diversity incentive would reward, not punish, those who seek to improve and grow the current pool of minority head coaches and athletics directors. I offer these as just a couple of examples of ways that we at the collegiate level can consider expanding opportunities for minority candidates as we contemplate a new direction for collegiate athletics. Thank you for the opportunity to offer my thoughts and share my experiences. I look forward to answering your questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Weiser appears at the conclusion of the hearing.] Mr. Rush. I want to thank the witnesses. I will start off with some questions. Coach Richardson, I want to return to an area that you described. First of all, let me just ask you this question. I am concerned. Do you consider yourself blackballed in college athletics now because you are unemployed now as a college coach? Mr. Richardson. I have been told by the person that is an agent of mine that there is no question what is happening, that the fear of being outspoken and the truth is, people don't want to hear that, and from that standpoint, I may have some baggage that I may be carrying. So from that standpoint, yes. Mr. Rush. So not only do you have to be effective and efficient and good at being an expert at being a college coach, you also have to be quiet? Is that what you are saying? Mr. Richardson. Absolutely. I mean, you have to stay in your place, as they call it. The good old boy system is well and alive and I think it is on a lot of campuses and probably on most campuses. The opportunities for white coaches are always going to be there until there is--there was a question-- my train of thought was, there was a question that I wanted to address about why are the black kids are going and playing basketball because of course there are more black coaches, and I think it all happened with the John Thompson when he had Patrick Ewing making the statement that I am going to play for a black coach. Now, what would happen if the football players who are key players say I am going to play where there is a head black football coach? I think something would start to change. Something has to change and that is what it is all about. So when you talk about basketball, that is what had happened, and as the blacks begin to get more jobs, kids beginning to get an opportunity to go to those schools, let us face it, it is about money. It is a big business in Division I basketball and football. It is a corporation. It is about money. It is as simple as that. Mr. Rush. Thank you. Mr. Keith and Dr. Lapchick, your focus has been on and your efforts have been on a lot of public exposure and you might even--in your testimony you even used the word ``embarrassment'' as a means of galvanizing individual schools toward hiring more minorities. That might be a good approach, it might be effective, but my question is, is embarrassment powerful enough? What if some of the more entrenched interests who are there to promote for the status quo--is embarrassment enough to break through that entrenchment? Suppose they don't respond to public pressure or to public embarrassment? What else is there that we could--what other remedial efforts can we take? Mr. Lapchick. Well, I think it is pretty clear that embarrassment hasn't been effective enough based on the numbers that we talked about. I think that one of the things that we are discussing are title VII lawsuits. The cause of women in college sport was advanced enormously when women started bringing lawsuits against schools under title IX and won, and that hasn't happened yet on the issue of race and we think that that might be a powerful tool in the years ahead, and Floyd Keith and the Black Coaches Association are strongly considering that at this particular moment. Mr. Keith. I think exactly what Richard is saying. We felt when we initiated the hiring report card that maybe the pressure of public opinion would be enough to bring this issue to the forefront. We are going to continue to do the hiring report card regardless of whether the numbers increase or not because we think it has a role now in the consciousness of sport, particularly on the collegiate level. We are going to do that with athletics director searches. We are also going to do it with women's basketball. But at the truth and the heart of the matter is, the numbers aren't at a level where they should be and it hasn't gotten to the point where we don't talk about it anymore. It is title VII which we think may have teeth. I don't--you have got to have something that has some bite, and I am just not sure--because we will have a handful, like this year we are going to have almost 36 schools we are going to evaluate in football, and I know that for a fact our grades will come out in September. There is going to be five schools that just completely disregard the report card and they are just going to take the F and so they are basically saying well, we will take the F and then so be it. Well, that is not good enough. We have got to hold them further to accountability because some of them like in the old days say well, you can't eat here, so what, who is going to do anything about it, you not eating here in the 1960's. So we go back to the same issue. I think it is a good tool but I don't think it has got enough. Mr. Rush. Thank you. Mr. Stearns. Mr. Stearns. Thank you. I think, Dr. Hill, you had indicated that the statistics show that we are actually in the last 10 year we are going backwards in Division II and III and actually Division I schools for African-American coaches. Isn't that what you said? Mr. Hill. Yes, sir, Division I, we have fewer coaches today than we had 10 years ago. Mr. Stearns. OK. And what about Division II and III? Maybe Mr. Lapchick can tell me that. In Division II and III, what Dr. Hill referred to for Division I, is that true for Division II and Division III for male African-Americans, the numbers of coaches going down? Mr. Lapchick. There has been virtually no opportunity historically in Division III whatsoever, so it has been pretty flat there. I think there is a single African-American head coach in Division III and that is a high number. In Division II, it has been four, five, six, over the years, kind of steady and constant, but the reality is that if you look at all the statistics, the opportunities are worse in Division III, a little bit better in Division II and a little bit better in Division I but they are not good in any of them. Mr. Stearns. Is that because there are less choices maybe, or not? How would you attribute that fact that Division III is the worst? Mr. Lapchick. I think people aren't scrutinizing it as much as they are Division I. Mr. Stearns. It is easier for a coach, isn't it, to be successful in Division III than in Division I? It is not as competitive, so---- Mr. Lapchick. Well, those coaches would tell you it is pretty competitive at that level but the opportunities--I mean, I think the reality is that whatever embarrassment effect there has been at Division I with the black coaches hiring report card and the racial and gender report card has never been applied to Division II and Division III. We haven't really looked at it so---- Mr. Stearns. OK. So we haven't had the spotlight on it? Mr. Lapchick. Right. Mr. Stearns. Dr. Hill? Mr. Hill. I was going to say, if you take, for example--and I said this for a while is that many of your candidates should come from the lower division colleges as a training ground and you take example I-AA, you say, well, you haven't had Division I experience. Well, take Jim Tressel. He came from Youngstown State. He came from I-AA. Two years later, he went to the national championship. So that should be tremendous training grounds, which Division III should come from the high school ranks. But the problem is, the recruiting if you go and examine the demographics, you will see the same thing taking place in high school. You have an urban community which I have referenced book that looks like HBCUs. Then you go to the suburbs. You go to the suburbs, you still have one African- American coach on that staff. You go to urban America, then you have predominantly black coaches. Mr. Stearns. Well, now, Mr. Lapchick, I want to move towards the women, African-American women. We haven't talked about them at all. Dr. Hill has mentioned the statistics in terms of Division I, II and III. What do the statistics look like for women? Are they even lower than males? Mr. Lapchick. As your question implies, it is a double layer of separation for African-American women, and one of the new initiatives of the Black Coaches Association this year is to do a report card on women's college basketball where nearly 44 percent of the student-athletes are African-American but the number of African-American women head coaches has actually been decreasing over the last 4 years and is now down to about 7\1/ 2\ percent. Mr. Stearns. And is this true in all sports or just one particular sport? Mr. Lapchick. There are very few African-American women head coaches in any sports in any of the divisions. They are smaller numbers than African-American men even. Mr. Stearns. Our concern obviously is that this statistic is getting worse as time goes on in Division I, II and III as on the whole and it is also even worse for women. So that is really another important thing, Mr. Chairman, that we should be concerned about is not just the men but the women and particularly in some sports you have indicated, Dr. Lapchick, that most of the participants are African-Americans and yet there are no African-American coaches. Is that what you are saying? Mr. Lapchick. There are a few African-American coaches but very few, and a significant percentage of African-American student-athletes. I think on the gender issue, it is also worth pointing out that 35 years after title IX, more men coach women's teams in college sport today than women coach women's teams. Mr. Stearns. Now, why do you think that is? Mr. Lapchick. I think that men in some cases have gone for the opportunities to help them to move up to get a men's job. In the case of women's basketball, it has become pretty big time now so it is a prominent position now so the men are going for it and athletics directors who are overwhelmingly men are picking a lot of male coaches. Mr. Stearns. So what you are saying is, a male coach is competing with a female coach and sometimes a male coach is beating out the white as well as the African-American and that is because of the selection process? Mr. Richardson. Yes. There are way more white male coaches in the female game than there are black females coaching as head coaches, way more. We did--I worked with the BCA 6 years ago on the SAT and ACT testing and found that gender with the women--our black women do not coach volleyball and they were doing more things for gender equity but it wasn't helping the black female because our girls are track, probably basketball. So how are you helping them? You are making more jobs availability for men, white, and female, white women. It is just as simple as that. Mr. Stearns. Well, Mr. Chairman, I think the point I am trying to make is that we have concentrated this morning on the male African-American but I think we should also be aware that the female African-American is also seeing the same kind of statistics in the Division I, II and III and that it is disheartening to think that they are even lower than the men and this has been getting worse across the board. So with that, I will yield back the balance of my time. Mr. Rush. Thank you. Mr. Ross. Mr. Ross. Let me begin with Dr. Hill, and I apologize for running in and out. I have got one markup in the Science Committee and two different hearings in two different subcommittees of Energy and Commerce Committee all at the same time. No wonder we have problems in America if this is how we run Congress, so forgive me for moving around so much. Dr. Hill, you did a dissertation on this and you have probably put more thought into this than most in this room. Is this something that--and I agree that clearly if you look at the numbers, the numbers don't lie and there is clearly a discrepancy--not a discrepancy but there is clearly a need, if you will, to have more African-Americans involved in leadership and coaching positions within the NCAA. Do you do that through public awareness? And of course a lot of press are here today. Do you do that through legislation? As we conclude Black History Month and we look through the historical achievements and accomplishments that we have--if you look at the time that we have endured in America and the progress that we have made, clearly this is an example of how, as some would say, while we have done a lot, there is still a lot that needs to be done. How do we take it to the next level? Is it through social awareness, PR campaign or through legislation? Mr. Hill. I think maybe, Congressman Ross, a little bit of both but I think if you look at the hiring situation, you will see the influence of boosters in the hiring process. College athletics, unlike NFL where you have the owner making the decision, you have an athletics director worried about maybe a construction worker who didn't even go to college but became a millionaire and has a lot of money and has some influence, and if this happened in recruiting, you can't have boosters get involved in NCAA with the recruiting mandates that are set up. And so what do you do? You make boosters aware of the recruiting process. I think we need to move forward in making boosters aware of what diversity looks like. By doing that, we make hay in the fact that they can say ``oh, I see''. Many boosters, when they think of what a head coach is supposed to look like, they see a white, middle-aged male and so what you have to do, you have to make a concerted effort to overcome that subconscious mindset of what a head football coach looks like. And so until we can get them to change the lenses of their camera and say maybe a head coach may not look like me, and we referenced, the success of basketball, success breeds change and when you have John Thompson, Tubby Smith, Nolan Richardson and people going to be successful, then you say we want to do that and recruiting can enhance that by having athletes decide hey, we want to go make a difference. This is really still a civil rights issue. If you look at the heart of what we are talking about today, this is 2007. In 1994, Cedrick Dempsey, who was then executive president of NCAA, claimed that we need to redouble our efforts to ensure equity for all coaches. That is 1994. In 2007, February 28, we are having a congressional hearing because we have gone backwards. Now, we can keep making public awareness if we like, we can keep talking about it, and when you have the hurricane season that takes place in December and January during the hiring, then you don't hear anything else about it. We are here today because of two African-American coaches going to the Super Bowl. Thank God for that. But what we have to do, we have to put something in place. Title VII, title IX, something has to mandate that we move forward to add corrective measures or a game plan that will ensure equity for all coaches regardless of color, male or female. Mr. Ross. In my remaining seconds, Coach Richardson, I would love to get your thoughts on that. By the way, I am a huge fans of yours so I am glad to have you here today. Dr. Hill made it very clear when you asked what can we do, it has got to become law. I mean, we are not going anywhere until there is law made and that is when progress begins. In 1994 I was here. John Thompson and I were going to walk out of a basketball game. Here we are, as he said, 2007 and we got six, seven football coaches. I mean, that has got to be ridiculous in two matters. The first of it is, what about the youngster that is playing football; when he looks on the sideline he never sees anyone that looks like him. Why should he pursue a career as a football coach? You have got to look at people, and that is why I am so proud of the basketball moving because now a young man that plays basketball who wants to be a coach can say hey, Coach Richardson, Coach Thompson, Coach Tubby--I mean, he can point at people that have made it. How can the football player point at people? It is just like the quarterback. I wanted to be a quarterback in high school but I wasn't smart enough. They called the plays. What do you mean I wasn't smart enough? I could handle the ball like anybody else could. And now, it is not a question about a quarterback because the plays a lot of times are called in. I mean, have you ever seen a football player that it is a kicker that is African-American? I have seen one maybe or two. Why? Have you ever seen an extra point kicker? Why? Until law is made to change things, that is the only way we are going to progress. That is how I see it. In my lifetime, that is the only way it is going to go because then you take the boosters out of it. You have got to take the boosters out of the equation because no matter what you say, there is still cheating going on today on college campuses. Mr. Rush. Mr. Burgess, 5 minutes. Mr. Burgess. Thank you, Mr. Rush, and just like my colleague from Arkansas, let me apologize for being in and out. There is always a lot that goes on in this town on a Wednesday and today is no exception. I guess my question was partly answered by Mr. Ross's last line of questioning is, where do we go from here as a legislative body? We can certainly hold hearings all day long, and we do, and we can hold hearings year in and year out, and we do, but is there a point--and Coach, I guess you said until the law is made, progress cannot be expected to occur. Progress is not going to occur on its own. It will have to be encouraged. And I think I understood where you said that that encouragement would have to come from the legislative process and I have not talked to the chairman about any legislative that he has contemplated or has pending and I would certainly offer my services to work with the subcommittee chairman on that issue but let me just hear from Coach Richardson and Dr. Hill what elements, what principles, what words need to be in that legislative or what do the principles need to be around which that legislation is crafted? Mr. Hill. Around access, equitable access. That is all that anyone really wants, the desire to say I have a son, 6 years old, and he was on the football field with me every day when I was practicing and he told me one day, Dad, I want to be a head football coach too, and that hit me in my heart because I didn't want him to have to experience those type of things that he would go through. I want him to have the same opportunities, have access, and what we have to do in trying to get the access comes from various--we have to change the mindset and that is why I think that education of our boosters and everyone involved to realize that head football coaches or women coaches may not look like you, and I think if you look at the progress in women's sports, particularly the NCAA, the Final Four with the women, that didn't just happen without some legislation. You have Pat Summerlin today because we mandated that the women's jobs are equitable to the men's jobs. That is why if you look at why we have more men coaching and want to go coach women's ball, because the salaries by title IX dictate that we have to make sure that we treat everyone fairly. That is the only type of legislation I think that we want is that you treat everybody fairly and that when you have 23 job openings this year, OK, and here is what is in the heart of coaches because I speak as one. You look at that and say man, I am not really a candidate not because of my qualifications but because of the color of my skin. How are you going to mandate that the color of your skin is taken out of the equation? Well, when you still have people making the hiring involved in doing that, it is difficult without mandating something in there, and that is what the Rooney Rule actually does and it exposes the hiring committee to break stereotypes that they don't even think about because they say man, this guy is sharp. There are a lot of sharp guys out there. Mr. Burgess. My follow-up is that do you think something crafted along the lines of the Rooney Rule or the unwritten Selig rule should in fact be one of those principles that we embody in the legislation? Mr. Hill. Well, according to--they said it is 76 percent of the coaches. That is what Mr. Keith has been doing. What we have to do is make sure that we are having some more involvement in the process and a diverse pool of constituents that sit around the table that looks like a representation of your student body. Let me give you an example. If I move to Japan and I don't speak Japanese but if I was going to start a business in Japan, I would make sure that my management team was representative of my laborers because I don't understand the culture. Maybe not. And so we could get maximum effectiveness out of the workers, and when you look at the hiring process today, it blows your mind because if you saw 23 openings and you felt like your resume was qualified, you have gone to NFL academies, you have gone to all the things to do and when you come there and say man, I know I am not going to get a job. So what do black coaches do now? They jump to the NFL. It is brain drain. We are losing our best talent out of collegiate football because we are not promoting through access, give the coaches access, and something has to be done because my brother Keith has been working, Dr. Lapchick. The numbers have been up there. In fact, I started this because of Dr. Lapchick in 1998 as a graduate assistant during a library assignment. I read his article in 1998. This is 2007 and his article still is being published and we are still talking about the issue. So I think 25 years--the civil rights laws were passed in 1964. It is 2007, and I think we need to move forward in making sure that this great country that we live in provides equal access for everyone. Mr. Burgess. Thank you. Coach Richardson. Mr. Richardson. I couldn't add much more to what Dr. Hill has just said. I just feel that in order to achieve anything, it is like the two things that I don't like and that is prostitution and slavery. You have to make laws to stop it. And to have slavery to be stopped, there had to be a law made or else it continues. I just believe that there has got to be a law made to change the field so we can play on a level field a little bit better, and he brought out some great points. Like he said, you have just got to get the people together, get some thoughts, put some real clean, good thoughts to the decision- making. There is no way it is going to change. Mr. Burgess. What about the issue of brain drain that Dr. Hill brought up? Are we risking depopulating the smaller colleges of qualified African-American minority mentors and coaches for those kids if the same thing happens at the NCAA level that happened at the professional level and everybody moves that one level up? Mr. Keith. Can I answer that question? There is a lot of young talented people out there and they are going to filter through. You are not going to rob anybody from anywhere. Everybody is trying to advance. I mean, there is no law about trying to advance. I don't penalize any of the coaches that have been diligently working through the process in collegiate football moving to the NFL simply because they are paid more than most coaches that are working in that system and the NCAA right now is losing their talent because when you turn on the TV, my friend, you are seeing coordinators of color in the NFL, you are seeing head coaches. When they started the season this year, seven head coaches in 32 opportunities. Congressman Burgess, there were 36 opportunities to be a head coach this year on the collegiate level and two African-Americans were hired on the collegiate ranks. I recommended Mike Tomlin for three head coaching jobs on the collegiate ranks. He is now the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. He couldn't get--he wasn't contacted for two of them. Now, you tell me what is wrong. That is why we are losing them. You have got to wake up. We are losing the people. There is young people out there with great talent. They are going to fill in to all of those jobs. They want to coach. Mr. Burgess. Unfortunately, I missed Dr. Brand when he was here. Could this not be done internally within the NCAA today without waiting on us to make a legislation? Mr. Keith. They can't mandate---- Mr. Burgess. I have only been here a couple years but I do know this place moves slowly. Mr. Keith. They can't mandate--there is three levels of the NCAA and I am not going to speak for Dr. Brand but I respect him. There is the executive office in Indianapolis. The student-athletes are the NCAA as well. But individual institutions hire. They hire the ADs, they hire the presidents. They make those decisions. The NCAA itself, the executive office, cannot mandate to those places who to hire. The process is really simple. When people ask me, and I have to answer this question probably 300 times a year, is why is the NFL ahead of the collegiate ranks in hiring. It is pretty simple. There is less people to deal with. And the other formula is follow the money. There is nobody that understands that better than you folks. Follow the money and you will find out the answers. The general manager and the owner are the two people that are making the decision in the NFL. That is the money. Now, if they get it, then the hiring becomes simple because if they are inclusive and they have diversity in their thinking, you don't have to reeducate them. They don't need some diversity program. It is business and they understand that it is good business. On the collegiate ranks, you have got the athletics director, you have got the search committee. You also have the executive search committee that is paid $35,000 to go out and execute the hire. You have got the president. You also have got the board of trustees who has to stamp their approval and then you have got the booster who is given the financial. So the money trail is spinning out there. There is so many other people that are decision-makers that are involved in the process. It is complicated on the collegiate level, and until we decide that accountability becomes part of that, we are making the knowledge, we are telling everybody what the issue is but there is political and financial influence and that is the elephant that is standing in the room. You have got to hold them accountable, and how are you going to do that? Well, hopefully if we can't do it with title VII, then let us make a rule so we can make this something we don't have to deal with 10 years from now so that my son comes in here and has to sit before you; he is not still talking about this. Mr. Burgess. Well, I think that is the salient point. When I think of all the kids back home in the 26th district of Texas who are probably not watching this because it is not on TV, but nevertheless, it is their future that we are talking about and---- Mr. Keith. That is exactly right. Mr. Burgess. It is a pastime for many of us but it is their future that we are talking about. Coach Richardson, I just have to say, I am not an Arkansan but I am related by marriage, and you had no bigger fan than my father-in-law, and if I went to Arkansas during college basketball season, I knew what we were doing on Sunday afternoons and it wasn't fishing, so thank you, sir. Mr. Richardson. Thank you. Mr. Rush. I am going to ask a final question here because I want to get another point of view here, and Mr. Weiser, you have been an athletic director but you have had a rather unusual history of hiring qualified minorities for head coaching positions, and in your statement to this committee you said your hires are based upon the fact that they are the most qualified in the market. You also cite athletic directors as being largely equivalent to corporation CEOs but you have come up with a solution or one remedy, your diversity incentive remedy. Can you expound more on that and can you also in your answer to my question, can you give the members of this committee some idea of what should be the focus of our attention if in fact we consider legislative remedies for this ongoing systemic barrier to fairness and equality in college athletics. Mr. Weiser. Well, yes. I certainly, Congressman, can give you my perspective and I will tell you that first of all, each campus has its different culture and I have heard several people refer to the booster influence and I can tell you that I have worked at institutions where that is a factor and I work at an institution now where that is not a factor, and I think the presidents have a lot to do with making sure that the business of the university is conducted by the university and not the outside influences. Now, that also has to speak to how that university is governed. Some of the institutions have their own governing boards. Others have boards that govern a number of institutions like it is at Kansas State. And so I think that has an impact on it. But my point and what Myles and I talked about earlier, if 76 percent of the job openings these past 5 years have involved minority candidates, then to me trying to grow that pool isn't the issue. It is getting institutions to take that chance and hire those coaches that are qualified to do that. Somebody referred to the risk-averse nature of athletic directors and I will tell you that that is a very real world but it is not a risk at least from my perspective on one's racial nature. It is not that issue. It is hiring somebody who you think is going to be successful in the job because despite all this talk about search committees and their involvement, search committees don't get fired; athletic directors get fired and they get fired because those coaches don't succeed in those two positions primarily. That is who we are defined by, those decisions. So I think when athletic directors recognize somebody that is going to be capable of succeeding, they are going to make that decision, and in my case hiring Ron Prince, had he not been a coordinator, I wouldn't have considered him. In fact, my bias going into every search is, I want to hire a sitting head coach because I think there is less risk. You know what you have. Well, if you have got six sitting head coaches, you already are behind the 8 ball, so to speak. You can't get those numbers to grow if they are small in that way so it has got to come from those coordinators that are considered out there and those candidates that we get to know when it is not a search time because when the search takes place, the BCA evaluates us on how long that search goes. The longer, the better, because that allows more people to be considered. But the media and our fans consider a longer search a misdirected search, that something must be wrong because those jobs that are hired instantly, those are the ADs and the searches that are the most successful. I don't believe that and I believe if you go into a search already knowing who your candidate is, you are not going to have an inclusive process. You are not going to allow others to be involved. So back to the diversity incentive. I think a better approach is to find ways to encourage and reward those institutions that don't interview but hire. That is really what we are talking about. We are trying to find a way to get more African-American head coaches in football and basketball, and that is where the focus should be, not on the interviews. Mr. Rush. I want to really thank this panel for your critical and very, very important testimony. I also want to just assure you that this is the first hearing. We don't intend to have hearings ad infinitum. We intend to deal with this issue and deal with a resolution. With your participation, with your involvement, I really open this process to you. I invite your commentary. I invite your input. As we proceed during the course of these legislative endeavors, I really want your participation and your comment. I am committed myself to trying to resolve this problem. I think this is a problem that has languished far too long. It is a problem that needs to be corrected. It is a problem that needs to be exposed so that the American people will actually see what goes in the area of college athletics, particularly at the athletic director, the head coaching levels, and also really at the athlete's level. I am concerned about student-athletes also. But this is just the first foray into this area of investigation and area of inquiry. Last, I just want to indicate, I think there was previous testimony that said when you get a general manager and owner together, they can make great decisions. There are still some rare instances where that is not the case. I would just take this opportunity to express to my favorite team, the Chicago Bears, that they need to show Lovie some love and get that contract signed right away because it is a parallel situation, I believe, that we have heard here in a lot of different ways. Thank you so very much, and please, it is an open invitation. Whatever suggestions or input that you might want to share with this committee in the future, do not hesitate to contact us. Thank you, and this record will remain open for 30 days for additional input on the official record. Thank you so much, and God bless you. [Whereupon, at 12:20 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] [Material submitted for inclusion in the record follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.001 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.002 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.003 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.004 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.005 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.006 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.007 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.008 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.009 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.010 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.011 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.012 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.013 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.014 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.015 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.016 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.017 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.018 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.019 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.020 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.021 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.022 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.023 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.024 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.025 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.026 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.027 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.028 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.029 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.030 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.031 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.032 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.033 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.034 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.035 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.036 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.037 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.038 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.039 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.040 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.041 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.042 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.043 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.044 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.045 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.046 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.047 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.048 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.049 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.050 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.051 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.052 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.053 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.054 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.055 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.056 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.057 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.058 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.059 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.060 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.061 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.062 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.063 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.064 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.065 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.066 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.067 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.068 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.069 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.070 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.071 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.072 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.073 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.074 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5220.075