[House Hearing, 111 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] THE RISE OF THE MEXICAN DRUG CARTELS AND U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ======================================================================= HEARING before the COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ JULY 9, 2009 __________ Serial No. 111-24 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/ index.html http://www.house.gov/reform U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 54-008 PDF WASHINGTON : 2009 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; DC area (202) 512-1800 Fax: (202) 512-2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402-0001 COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York, Chairman PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania DARRELL E. ISSA, California CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York DAN BURTON, Indiana ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland JOHN M. McHUGH, New York DENNIS J. KUCINICH, Ohio JOHN L. MICA, Florida JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee DIANE E. WATSON, California MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia JIM COOPER, Tennessee PATRICK T. McHENRY, North Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia BRIAN P. BILBRAY, California MIKE QUIGLEY, Illinois JIM JORDAN, Ohio MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio JEFF FLAKE, Arizona ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of JEFF FORTENBERRY, Nebraska Columbia JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah PATRICK J. KENNEDY, Rhode Island AARON SCHOCK, Illinois DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois ------ ------ CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland HENRY CUELLAR, Texas PAUL W. HODES, New Hampshire CHRISTOPHER S. MURPHY, Connecticut PETER WELCH, Vermont BILL FOSTER, Illinois JACKIE SPEIER, California STEVE DRIEHAUS, Ohio ------ ------ Ron Stroman, Staff Director Michael McCarthy, Deputy Staff Director Carla Hultberg, Chief Clerk Larry Brady, Minority Staff Director C O N T E N T S ---------- Page Hearing held on July 9, 2009..................................... 1 Statement of: Kerlikowske, R. Gil, Director, Office of National Drug Control Policy, Executive Office of the President; Alan Bersin, Assistant Secretary, Office of International Affairs and Special Representative for Border Affairs, U.S. Department of Homeland Security; and Lanny A. Breuer, assistant attorney general, Criminal Division, U.S. Department of Justice...................................... 10 Bersin, Alan............................................. 48 Breuer, Lanny A.......................................... 22 Kerlikowske, R. Gil...................................... 10 Owen, Todd, Acting Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Office of Field Operations, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, U.S. Department of Homeland Security; Kumar Kibble, Deputy Director, Office of Investigations, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Department of Homeland Security; Anthony P. Placido, Assistant Administrator for Intelligence, Drug Enforcement Administration; William Hoover, Assistant Director for Field Operations, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, U.S. Department of Justice; and J. Robert McBrien, Associate Director for Investigations and Enforcement, Office of Foreign Assets Control, U.S. Department of Treasury....................... 69 Hoover, William.......................................... 99 Kibble, Kumar............................................ 82 McBrien, J. Robert....................................... 101 Owen, Todd............................................... 69 Placido, Anthony P....................................... 97 Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by: Bersin, Alan, Assistant Secretary, Office of International Affairs and Special Representative for Border Affairs, U.S. Department of Homeland Security, prepared statement of..... 50 Breuer, Lanny A., assistant attorney general, Criminal Division, U.S. Department of Justice, prepared statement of 24 Connolly, Hon. Gerald E., a Representative in Congress from the State of Virginia, prepared statement of............... 121 Kerlikowske, R. Gil, Director, Office of National Drug Control Policy, Executive Office of the President, prepared statement of............................................... 13 Kibble, Kumar, Deputy Director, Office of Investigations, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Department of Homeland Security, prepared statement of................ 84 McBrien, J. Robert, Associate Director for Investigations and Enforcement, Office of Foreign Assets Control, U.S. Department of Treasury, prepared statement of.............. 104 Owen, Todd, Acting Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Office of Field Operations, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, U.S. Department of Homeland Security, prepared statement of..... 71 Towns, Chairman Edolphus, a Representative in Congress from the State of New York, prepared statement of............... 4 Watson, Hon. Diane E., a Representative in Congress from the State of California, prepared statement of................. 118 THE RISE OF THE MEXICAN DRUG CARTELS AND U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ---------- THURSDAY, JULY 9, 2009 House of Representatives, Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Washington, DC. The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Edolphus Towns (chairman of the committee) presiding. Present: Representatives Towns, Issa, Kucinich, Tierney, Clay, Watson, Lynch, Quigley, Norton, Cuellar, Souder, Bilbray, and Jordan. Staff present: John Arlington, chief counsel-- investigations; Kevin Barstow, investigative counsel; Craig Fischer, investigator; Jean Gosa, clerk; Carla Hultberg, chief clerk; Chris Knauer, senior investigator/professional staff member; Jesse McCollum, senior advisor; Ophelia Rivas, assistant clerk; Christopher Sanders, professional staff member; Calvin Webb, ICE detailee; Ronald Stroman, staff director; Lawrence Brady, minority staff director; John Cuaderes, minority deputy staff director; Jennifer Safavian, minority chief counsel for oversight and investigations; Dan Blankenburg, minority director of outreach and senior advisor; Adam Fromm, minority chief clerk and Member liaison; Kurt Bardella, minority press secretary; Tom Alexander, minority senior counsel; and Mitchell Kominsky, minority counsel. Chairman Towns. The committee will come to order. Good morning and thank you all for being here. Mexico has long been an important ally and friend of the United States. It is this country's third largest trading partner, has one of the largest economies in the Americas, and remains the third largest source of foreign oil for the U.S. market. Unfortunately, over the past few years, organized crime has made Mexico a major producing and transit state for illegal drugs trafficked into the United States. As much as 90 percent of all cocaine entering the United States comes through Mexico. Criminals in Mexico are now the largest foreign suppliers of marijuana and major suppliers of methamphetamine. Apparently, crime pays: this criminal enterprise is estimated to produce annual revenues ranging from $25 to $40 billion. In December 2006, shortly after taking office, Mexican President Felipe Calderon began a major crackdown on the drug cartels operating in his country. Since then, almost 11,000 people in Mexico have been killed in drug-related violence. Almost daily, reports from Mexico depict killings, acts of torture, and kidnapping. And it is getting worse. This past June was the deadliest month on record, with over 800 killed in drug-related violence. In short, in Mexico, drugs and violence are a growth industry. As a result, Mexico is facing one of the most critical security challenges in its history. Many who have had the courage to confront the drug cartels have been threatened or killed. This includes policemen, soldiers, judges, journalists, and even the clergy. However, there is some basis for optimism. The courageous efforts of President Calderon have resulted in important changes. Law enforcement agencies and other Federal officials have reported positive developments in their working relationships with their Mexican counterparts. They say these changes are having a significant effect in addressing the drug threat posed to both countries. At the same time, there is a front page article in today's Washington Post which reads ``Mexico accused of torture in drug war: Army using brutality to fight trafficking.'' As the effort in Mexico to address the drug threat continues, we must be clear that abuses from the state are equally intolerable. I will seek to understand more about the facts relating to this article as the committee's investigation continues. Nevertheless, I believe the drug cartels and their associated violence constitute a major threat to security and safety along the Southwest border, and have caused major disruptions to commercial activities, including international trade. Because of my growing concerns about this problem, I sent a bipartisan team of committee investigators to the Southwest border to get a first-hand look at what is happening on the ground. Our investigators met with numerous Federal, State, and local officials, including law enforcement, military intelligence, and others, and observed field operations in both daylight and night. This hearing was designed as a followup to the staff field investigation, to provide the committee with an overview of Federal efforts to disrupt and dismantle the Mexican drug trade, and to examine whether Federal agencies have sufficient tools and capabilities to do the job. Over the past few years, there have been nagging questions about the effectiveness of Federal policy with regard to the Southwest Border. While it is clear that this administration takes the drug cartel threat very, very seriously, questions remain. Just 1 month ago, the administration published a document entitled, ``National Southwest Border Counternarcotics Strategy.'' This is a blueprint on how the administration will address the threats posed by Mexican drug smuggling. But the key issue remains, who is in charge? We know who is leading the fight in Iraq. We know who is leading the fight in Afghanistan. What we don't know is who is leading the fight on our own border. Is it the Border Czar? Is it the Drug Czar? Will it be the National Guard? Perhaps we will obtain a better understanding of this question today. One more thing before we begin. With us today are top representatives from key law enforcement agencies involved in the ongoing struggle to address Mexican drug trafficking. The work they do is critical both to Unite States national security and in helping Mexico in its progress to turning the corner on the threats it now confronts. I commend their efforts and I look forward to working with them on this critical national security matter. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Chairman Edolphus Towns follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Towns. Before I recognize my ranking member, Mr. Issa, for his opening statement, I would like to thank the minority for its assistance during this investigation. All of the work related to today's hearing was conducted on a bipartisan basis. I would like to thank the ranking member for his leadership and his staff for continuing to build on this important relationship. I look forward to continuing to work together on important matters such as today's topic. I will now yield to the ranking member, Mr. Darrell Issa, for his opening statement. Congressman Issa. Mr. Issa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. But I would have let you go on as long as you wanted on that track. [Laughter.] As the chairman said, this is a bipartisan issue and it is one in which there is no distance between the chairman and myself. Our staffs did work closely on it and intend to continue. There is no surprise that we will reach different conclusions on some of the fixes and some of the things that should be done. We certainly will reach some differences in the priorities of the administration, including its representatives before us today, and the two of us. But when it comes to finding the facts and to agreeing on the portions that can be agreed on so that we can then disagree on very little, I think this committee is setting a high standard and I intend to continue that. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that my entire opening statement be placed in the record. Chairman Towns. Without objection, so ordered. Mr. Issa. Thank you. With that indulgence, I will take a moment to recognize Alan Bersin. I don't know the rest of you as well, but our new Border Czar is not new to San Diego, and he is not new to dealing with border issues; his work as a U.S. attorney, his work in education, his work on the airport. Alan, the list of work is too long to do as an introduction, but you have been a champion for so many causes in San Diego, and I couldn't be more delighted that the President has selected you as somebody that rises above politics, rises above either party to do what is right for our country. So I look forward to your testimony today, and I am particularly pleased that the border, as a separate issue is getting attention. I must admit that the reduction of the Drug Czar from a full cabinet level position concerns me deeply. I think it sends the wrong message at a time in which your efforts and the efforts of the Mexican government are going to be critical. The fact that we pulled away, 2\1/2\ years ago, from Plan Colombia, we curtailed our support for Plan Colombia and then, on a very partisan basis, failed to support the Colombian free trade initiative, sends a chilling message to countries who bled so long with us in order to eradicate drugs that once literally controlled the government in Colombia. Today, in Mexico, we have a very brave president who is fighting the same battle, and so far appears to be making progress. I say that because you are only one key assassination away from a dramatic change in Mexico, and we need to understand that. We need to understand that the depth of corruption in Mexico which has often been well understood, when it is in the hands of people with guns and willingness to use them--11,000 or so murders this year alone--says a great deal. We are going to hear today about the spillover or lack thereof, and I believe, as a San Diegan, that people in San Diego, at the border, the U.S. attorney and others, are doing a good job of doing everything they can to ensure that the activity north of the border is disconnected as much as possible from the activity south of the border. But let's be clear. Whether you are in San Diego or St. Louis or Cleveland, you are directly affected by our failure to stop narcotics from coming into our country. Every city in America and many rural areas have organized crime directly linked to those assets being made available and sold. Some in my party would say that it is another country's problem alone. I am not one of them. Today, with former Speaker Denny Hastert, we announced, with many members from this committee, a drug task force, one that had been somewhat dormant for several years because we felt that we needed to work hard to bring new emphasis to this growing problem, but also because we want to make sure that the facts are very clearly stated to the American people. First of all, we are the consumers and we are the suppliers of money. We all take a certain amount of blame for the fact that our money ultimately leads to these cartels' operations in other countries. Additionally, we are going to hear today about guns going south while drugs go north. I have no doubt that drugs do go south. One of the questions is, is it through the tunnels that I have seen personally that move the drugs or is it somehow through the border. Would we in fact do any real good if we set up an exiting American checkpoint at the border, or would it simply be one more burden borne by our Border Patrol people at a cost much higher than either the Mexicans doing their job or, in fact, would we accomplish very little other than to find a small amount of drugs and a small amount of paraphernalia, when in fact anything serious in the way of guns or other activities are probably going through the very means that bring drugs north are also sending things south? And if we didn't find the drugs going north, we are just as unlikely to find the guns going south. Having said that, I look to an awful lot of information we don't have every day in San Diego, and I again want to thank the chairman, because the only way we are going to really support the efforts of this administration and hold the administration accountable is on a bipartisan basis. We are off to an incredibly good start and I expect it to continue, and I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Towns. Thank you very much, Congressman Issa. I would now like to recognize Mr. Tierney to make an opening statement, if he would like. Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you and I want to thank again our witnesses for being here this morning. In March, the Subcommittee on National Security and Foreign Affairs had a hearing on the issue of money, guns, and drugs, and whether or not the United States inputs were fueling violence on the United States-Mexican border. At that hearing, we heard testimony about what factors inside the United States are contributing to the strength and cruelty of Mexican drug cartels. The key point that emerged from that hearing, a point that I hope will be explored in more depth here today, is that continuing to interdict drugs and smugglers on the border will be an endless task if we don't address the other related aspects of the drug trade. More progress needs to be made in three main areas: guns, cash, and the demand for drugs in the United States. According to some estimates, as many as 90 percent of the high-caliber weapons that are being used by drug cartels to perpetrate the violence we have seen in the past several years originate in the United States. We can't hope to quell the violence that has gripped border towns and cities, violence that threatens the stability of the Mexican government and the safety of our own citizens on the southern border if we do not halt the flow of arms into Mexico. This is a significant challenge for law enforcement and border patrol. In many cases, the manufacture and purchase of these weapons may not be illegal. That means we have to check the gun flow at the border as well as in the interior of this country. A second major factor in the drug trade and the rise of powerful drug cartels is the cash-flow coming in from the United States. We heard testimony at the March hearing that as much as $25 billion in bulk cash-flows into Mexico from drug sales in the United States each year. One of our witnesses testified that Federal law enforcement is hampered by its efforts to find and stop these cash-flows by what he called antiquated legislation. It also appeared that there may be a lack of coordination between the various agencies that have jurisdiction in this area. I hope our witnesses today can address those issues in more detail as well. Finally, we must address the fact that it is the demand for drugs here in the United States that has allowed Mexican cartels to become profitable. According to some estimates, 90 percent of the cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine, and marijuana purchased and consumed in the United States enter our country through Mexico. Americans spend as much as $65 billion annually in illegal drugs. There are no simple solutions to the problem, but we need to recognize that our internal drug policies and our success at curbing the use of these illegal substances in the United States can have a profound effect on the stability of our neighboring countries and our own national security. Before closing, I also want to note that there is a global problem, not simply an issue on the United States-Mexican border. After the March hearing, we heard testimony that cocaine from Mexican cartels is now headed to Europe and to Russia. In addition, Mexican and Colombian drug cartels have made inroads in West Africa. Our shared border with Mexico makes the situation there of particular concern to us, but it is just one piece of a global puzzle. I hope that our discussion here today can inform our approach to the other regions as well. So, again, I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman and thank our witnesses. Chairman Towns. Thank you very much, Congressman Tierney. I now yield to Congressman Bilbray. Mr. Bilbray. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, let me just say, as a lifelong resident of the front terra area, I want to thank you for this hearing. It seems that everybody was talking about wars that are overseas and far away, but we are ignoring our own backyard, where fatalities were skyrocketing, where the death rate among law enforcement just south of our border was far beyond anything we had seen anywhere else in the world. And we just sort of ignored it because it wasn't on the radar screen for the media. I want to apologize to the other two gentlemen, because I have to make a mention of my friend, Mr. Bersin. I just have to say to the administration there are disagreements I have, but when it comes to the choice of our guy over in San Diego in the western sector, no one could have been a better choice than Alan, and I want to thank him for being willing to serve again, because, as everyone knows, it is not an easy job. You knew what you were stepping into. We don't have time for a learning curve here, and I want to thank the administration for bringing the man back online. Mr. Chairman, the one thing that I have just got to say is that too often we hear the media talk about the drug cartel, drug cartel. We need to change the terminology to the smuggling cartels, because we are talking about not only drugs going north, but we are talking about guns and money coming south, and the same cartel is involved in the illegal alien smuggling. It is all a network and a profiteering. In fact, I have grown up in an area where we got in the habit of seeing illegal's being used as the mule for the cartels and the abuses and the high risk involved with illegal immigrants because of its relationship to the gun, money laundering, and the drug cartels. So I just want to make sure that we understand that when we talk about this issue, they are all tied together. The cartels have control of the border and the illegal crossing for much too long, and I am glad to see us address this. I am also glad to see this hearing because too many people on our side of the border think this is a problem that is across the border and it is not going to be a threat to the American communities. This is a major threat for all of us along the front terra area on both sides of the border and I hope I am able to get you photos that I don't think we will show in public, but just so the Members understand how bad this is. When a hospital in my county has somebody walking in with two fingers and say, ``is there any way to preserve these fingers so that, when we get the hostages back, we can sew them back on?'' When you have law enforcement that finds two let me just say the remnants of decapitation, this is the kind of thing that we are having going on in our neighborhoods not just in Tijuana, but in the San Diego County region. It is crossing over and now is the time to win this battle, working with Mexico, working with Calderon. And let me say one thing. President Calderon is the bravest elected official I have ever known, and I think that we have to give credit to him and we have to throw aside our disagreements with Mexico and work with him now, because we either fight this battle on Mexican soil and win it or we are going to be fighting it on American soil at a much higher cost. I appreciate the chance to be able to be here today and yield back. Chairman Towns. Thank you very much, Congressman Bilbray. I would now like to introduce our first panel of witnesses testifying today. Mr. R. Gil Kerlikowske, Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, the Executive Office of the President; Mr. Lanny A. Breuer, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division, U.S. Department of Justice; and Mr. Alan Bersin, who has been praised all morning here. I want you to know to have Congressman Bilbray and, of course, Congressman Issa say something nice about you, you must be great. [Laughter.] Assistant Secretary for International Affairs and Special Representative for Border Affairs, Office of International Affairs, U.S. Department of Homeland Security. Let me indicate we hear the bells, but we are going to go as far as we can, Members. Let me just swear all of you in. Would you stand and raise your right hands? [Witnesses sworn.] Chairman Towns. Let the record reflect that all the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Why don't we start with you, Mr. Kerlikowske. Am I pronouncing that correctly? Mr. Kerlikowske. Very good. You are excellent in that. Thank you. Chairman Towns. I practiced all last night. [Laughter.] STATEMENTS OF R. GIL KERLIKOWSKE, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF NATIONAL DRUG CONTROL POLICY, EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT; ALAN BERSIN, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, OFFICE OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR BORDER AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY; AND LANNY A. BREUER, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, CRIMINAL DIVISION, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE STATEMENT OF R. GIL KERLIKOWSKE Mr. Kerlikowske. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am honored to be with you, and certainly Ranking Member Issa, all of the committee members that are here today. Last month, Secretary Napolitano, Attorney General Holder, and I publicly released the strategy that was referenced by the chairman. This is a comprehensive interagency plan that was developed through the work of the Office of National Drug Control, our office, and it was done in a way that ensured all of the partners that you see here today being actively involved in it. This is a plan that is not going to sit on a shelf and gather dust; it is being put into action even as we speak, and it is being done in partnership also with the courageous and dedicated work of Mexico's President Calderon, the investments that the U.S. Government has made, and the commitment of all of the Federal agencies and the State and local agencies that we have talked to. To ensure that it is turned into action, the administration will soon be announcing a dedicated interagency working group, which I will lead, to push forward the full and effective implementation of strategy, and that framework is being developed. We will provide a public report on the implementation of the strategy as part of the administration's first national drug control strategy, which will be published early next year. As part of my oversight responsibilities, my office recently identified overarching national drug control strategy goals to help guide all of the Federal agencies as they develop their policy initiatives, their programmatic efforts, and their budget proposals. Over the coming months, ONDCP will be working with the Departments of Homeland Security, Justice, State, Defense, and others to develop cross-agency performance goals and metrics for the Southwest Border Initiative. In addition, as the agencies update their strategic plans, we will be working with OMB and the Departments and the agencies to integrate key Southwest Border priorities that are identified in the strategy. This is not only going to ensure accountability, but it will make it clear that combating the flow of drugs and money and weapons across the Southwest Border must be a core element of our Nation's approach to the entire drug problem. It is essential that we work together as one team to stop the flow of drugs into our country, as well as the southbound flow of bulk currency and weapons that fuel drug cartel violence. To make headway on the full array of border challenges, the Congress and the administration are going to need to work very closely together. I am looking forward to working with this committee and I know that part of the focus that you have certainly identified is on accountability, and we are very prepared to answer that. Before I close, I want to talk for just a moment about how vital it is that the Federal Government improves its cooperation with State and local partners. I asked the directors of the High Intensity Drug Trafficking Areas to meet with me along the Southwest Border last month. What the HIDTA directors told me and what I believe the members of this committee already know is that our front-line State and local law enforcement partners have been under enormous strain. Bill Lansdowne in San Diego, Bill Colander, the retiring sheriff of 50-plus years of law enforcement, have been friends for many years, so I listened to this very closely. Although the strain is most acute on the border, as the ranking member mentioned, clearly this is a national problem, and it affected us in Seattle during the 9 years that I was police chief, as well as my colleagues in Minnesota and across the country. The administration intends to continue to help those law enforcement agencies who need it and that are on the border and also within the interior, and we are going to keep an intense focus on this threat and make a difference. The knowledge of local law enforcement, meaning the State, County, and city, is a great advantage to the work of the Federal Government. When it comes to the critical challenge of interdicting the southbound flow of weapons and bulk currency, partnership with those agencies is essential, and I think I can be of great value in that. State and local law enforcement personnel possess unmatched knowledge about the organizations that operate within their jurisdictions every day. Our law enforcement operations are most effective when this knowledge is combined with the skill, technology, and resources that the Federal agencies can bring. All of us in this administration are committed to pursuing a truly national approach to the critical problem. Thank you, Chairman Towns. I look forward to answering questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Kerlikowske follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Towns. Thank you very much. Mr. Breuer. STATEMENT OF LANNY A. BREUER Mr. Breuer. Chairman Towns, Ranking Member Issa, and members of the committee, I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the Department of Justice's important role in the administration's overall strategy to address the threats posed by the rise of Mexican drug cartels, particularly along our Southwest Border. The Justice Department's goal is to systematically dismantle these cartels which threaten the national security of our Mexican neighbors, pose an organized crime threat to the United States, and are responsible for much of the scourge of illicit drugs and the increase in violence in Mexico. This issue commands priority at the highest level of the Department's leadership. As you know, on June 5th, Attorney General Holder, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Napolitano, and Office of National Drug Control Policy Director Kerlikowske released President Obama's National Southwest Border Counternarcotics Strategy. The strategy is designed to stem the flow of illegal drugs and their illicit proceeds across the Southwest Border and to reduce the associated crime and violence in the region. I look forward to working with Director Kerlikowske and Assistant Secretary Bersin, and our many Federal, State, local, tribal, and Mexican partners to ensure success of the administration's strategy. The Justice Department plays a central role in supporting the National Southwest Border Counternarcotics Strategy. The Department's approach to the Mexican drug cartels is to confront them as criminal organizations. To do so, we employ extensive and coordinated intelligence capabilities to target the largest and most dangerous Mexican drug cartels and focus law enforcement resources. Our intelligence-based, prosecutor- led, multi-agency task forces focus our efforts on the investigation, extradition, prosecution, and punishment of key cartel leaders. As the Department has demonstrated in attacking other major criminal enterprises, destroying the leadership and seizing the financial infrastructure of the cartels is critical to dismantling them. Stemming the flow of guns and money from the United States to Mexico is an important aspect of the administration's comprehensive approach to the problem. In concerted efforts with the Department of Homeland Security and other law enforcement entities, we are committed to investigating and prosecuting illegal firearms trafficking and currency smuggling from the United States into Mexico. Another key component to neutralizing the cartels is to work closely with the government of Mexico. The Department plays an important role in implementing the Merida Initiative, including serving as the lead implementer in programs and prosecutorial capacity building, asset forfeiture, extradition training, and forensics. We continue to work closely with Mexico to address the issue of cartel-related public corruption, including through investigative assistance. We also work together on extraditions of key cartel leaders and other fugitives. The Calderon administration has taken bold steps to confront this threat, and we are committed to assisting our Mexican partners in this fight. We believe that the Department has the right comprehensive and coordinated strategy to disrupt and dismantle the cartels and stem the southbound flow of firearms and cash. The strengths of the Department's approach are illustrated by, for example, the tremendous successes of Operation Accelerator and Project Reckoning, multi-agency, multi-national operations targeting the Sinaloa and Gulf Cartels. Despite our recent successes, however, we recognize that there is much more work to do. Last month, I traveled to the Southwest Border, along with my friend, Assistant Secretary Bersin, and saw the acute challenges that our brave law enforcement personnel confront on a daily basis and how intertwined those challenges are. The Department is committed to working together with our colleagues at ONDCP and DHS, with our State, local, and tribal partners, and with the government of Mexico to build on what we have done so far, and to develop and implement new ideas and to refresh our strategies. The recently signed MOUs between DEA and ICE and between ATF and ICE are emblematic of our collaborative, coordinated approach to the threats posed by the Mexican drug cartels. By continuing to work together, we can and will rise to the current challenge. Again, thank you for your recognition of this important issue and the opportunity to testify today, and I will be happy to answer any questions you may have. [The prepared statement of Mr. Breuer follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Towns. Thank you very much. Let me say that we have votes on the floor and that we will adjourn for 1 hour and be able to come back 10 minutes after the last vote, just in case we run into some problems over on the floor. But I think we should be back in an hour. So at that time we will continue with you, Mr. Bersin. We have to vote around here. [Recess.] Chairman Towns. The committee will reconvene. Again, we apologize for the delay, but votes are something that we have to do. Mr. Bersin. STATEMENT OF ALAN BERSIN Mr. Bersin. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Issa, members of the committee, thank you for this opportunity. The rise of the Mexican drug cartels and U.S. national security poses the critical issue clearly and directly. This is a subject critical to our Nation and one with which I am familiar, having served as the Southwest Border representative for the Department of Justice from 1995 to 1998. Since my appointment to DHS in mid-April, I have traveled to the border and to Mexico five times to meet with U.S. officials at the Federal, State, local, and tribal level, as well as counterparts in the administration of President Felipe Calderon. I have also met, on behalf of the Department, with immigrant advocacy groups and civic and business groups along the border in Brownsville, Laredo, Del Rio, El Paso, Albuquerque, Tucson, Nogales, Phoenix, and San Diego. My experience living and working on the border has given me an appreciation for the strategic importance of our political and law enforcement relationship with Mexico, as well as for the gravity of the crisis that we face presently, given the rise of the drug cartels on the United States-Mexican border and within Mexico itself. It is indeed a crisis, though in using that word I note that the Chinese word for crisis is written in Mandarin by combining two characters, the character for danger and opportunity. Our current crisis certainly presents both. The danger comes from the fact that the Mexican cartels, through violent and corrupt means, have created a national security threat to the government of Mexico and, therefore, derivatively, to the United States. The power of the cartels is alarming. They have polluted the political system of Mexico; they have corrupted the legal system. The second element of danger is the competition among the cartels, along with the Mexican government's attempts to combat them, have led to unprecedented violence in the northern states of Mexico, from Tamaulipas to Baja, CA, resulting reportedly in more than 11,000 deaths in the last 3\1/2\ years. Our opportunity arises from the historic and courageous efforts, indeed, heroic efforts of the Calderon administration, first, to fully acknowledge the power of the cartels and, second, to willingly confront the stark reality of systematic corruption that exists in Mexican law enforcement. The U.S. Government has been bold as well. Starting with the unqualified acceptance, the consumption of drugs on the U.S. side of the border is a major contributing factor to the power and influence of Mexican cartels. For the first time, we view drugs coming north and guns and bulk cash going south as two ends of a single problem. It is not the occasion for finger pointing between Mexico and the United States. The acknowledgment of a shared problem has paved the way for cooperation between DHS, along with DOJ, and the government of Mexico that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago, and even unsayable 3 years ago. DHS is working in full partnership with the government of Mexico to respond to the dangers and the opportunities that the current crisis has presented. This is a relationship of trust with verification, and one that is accepted by both countries on that basis. On March 24th, Secretary Napolitano and Deputy Attorney General David Ogden announced the President's major Southwest Border Initiative, a reallocation of agents, technology, equipment, and attention--importantly, attention--to the border. Those deployments are now complete. DHS has also taken steps to deepen our relationship with partner agencies in the government of Mexico. On June 15th, for example, Secretary Napolitano signed a Letter of Intent with Mexican Finance Secretary Augustine Carstens to guide the cooperative efforts of CBP, ICE, and Mexican Customs. DHS components also have worked to broaden the bilateral relationship in information and intelligence sharing, as well as in other areas that are law enforcement sensitive. Many have asked me what has changed between my first appointment as so-called Border Czar and my current job. The security threat on the border has certainly intensified with regard to the activities of the drug and other smuggling cartels that dot the border. However, I note two positive changes within our Government that make me optimistic that we will succeed in our efforts to reduce significantly the power of the smuggling cartels. First, DHS provides a significantly better resource capability to confront security issues at the border than was the case previously. It also has a unified chain of command overseeing our investigation and inspection responsibilities. Second, and genuinely, I have been impressed by the extent of cooperation that I have witnessed among our Federal agencies, exemplified and embodied in the relationship that Director Kerlikowske, Assistant Attorney General Breuer, and I have forged in short order. This is particularly true on the Merida Initiative, the long-term vehicle for expanded cooperation between United States-Mexican law enforcement agencies. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Issa, it has been said that the challenge of our time is that the future is not what it used to be. When it comes to United States-Mexican relationships and the prospect for building on that cooperation to deal with Mexican criminal organizations, that is a good thing, a very good thing indeed. I look forward to exploring this matter further with you and my colleagues in the question and answer, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Mr. Bersin follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Towns. Thank you very much, Mr. Bersin, for your testimony. We now will move to the question and answer period. I have a broad question, I guess, for you, Mr. Breuer and Mr. Bersin. Are we winning the war against the Mexican drug cartels? Mr. Breuer. Mr. Chairman, we are. That is not to say that we don't have much to do, but if you look at the work that has occurred with the cartels, Mr. Chairman, with respect to operations that we have, whether it is Operation Accelerator, Project Reckoning, where we have systematically gone, investigated, and prosecuted the cartels, we have extracted enormous blows against the Sinaloa Cartel, against the Gulf Cartel, we have higher levels of extraditions of drug kingpins than ever before. So we are making every effective strategy with respect to intelligence-based investigations and prosecutions. That is not to suggest for a moment that we don't have more to do, but the battles among the cartels themselves are showing that the pressure that we are putting on them in unison and in alliance with President Calderon and his administration I think do demonstrate that we are being very effective. Chairman Towns. Mr. Bersin. Mr. Bersin. Generally, Mr. Chairman, I agree with Mr. Breuer that this is a long-term struggle about reducing the power of the cartels on the government of Mexico and, therefore, turning it from what is currently a national security threat into a more conventional law enforcement or criminal justice problem. And measured by that standard, I think we have a ways to go, but I am in accord with Mr. Breuer, for the reasons he stated, that we are making progress and that it is measurable progress, and that we can in fact intensify what we are doing and that we can continue to see a weakening of the cartel power, which now is alarmingly high, as I said in my statement. Chairman Towns. It has been indicated that the President is planning to send National Guard troops to the border. Of course, if we send National Guard troops to the border, who will be in charge of them? Mr. Bersin. Mr. Chairman, the decision whether or not to send National Guard in support of law enforcement at the United States-Mexican border, indeed, at any border, is a decision reserved exclusively for the President. Secretary Gates and Secretary Napolitano have been conferring and will be developing a recommendation that will be submitted to the President, but at end, Mr. Chairman, the mission of the decision is a function of Presidential decision, and I am confident that in due course that decision will be made one way or the other. Chairman Towns. What are the implications for U.S. national security should the Calderon administration fail in its efforts to take on the Mexican drug cartels? What are the stakes for both Mexico and the United States? Mr. Breuer, you want to take it? Mr. Breuer. Mr. Chairman, they are very, very significant. Certainly for Mexico, as Assistant Secretary Bersin said, they are confronting a national security tremendous challenge right now in their battle against the cartels. With respect to us right now, it is the equivalent of a major organized crime challenge. We cannot permit President Calderon to fail. This may be a once in a generation opportunity, his courage and his willingness to take on the cartels. So the consequences are very extraordinary, and we need to deploy the appropriate resources and skill and collaboration to ensure that we do everything we can to support the President. Chairman Towns. Mr. Bersin, I would like to hear from you on that as well. Mr. Bersin. I am in agreement with Secretary Napolitano, having heard her refer to this window of opportunity. To the extent that we are not able to weaken the influence of the cartels on the Mexican political system, we will continue to see a Mexico that is systematically corrupt in which decisions are not being made on the merits, but are rather being made because they are bought and paid for. That kind of a narco-influenced political system south of the border presents a whole series of long-term security threats to Mexico, which is why it is so important that we use this window of opportunity with the Calderon administration to weaken the power of these criminal organizations, these smuggling organizations that do enormous damage to our society, but even more damage to Mexican society. Chairman Towns. What would victory really look like? Let's go right down the line. What would it really look like, victory for us? Mr. Kerlikowske. One of the things that victory in Mexico would look like is certainly that President Calderon has, as we have in this country, a local law enforcement that is professional, highly trained, skilled, possesses the integrity to be responsive to the needs of protecting the people rather than the heavy use of the military in that country. The other thing that I would look at in victory, too, is that, as has been remarked to me by representatives from the government of Mexico, and that is the increasing addiction population or size of the population involved in drug use. As all of the members, I believe, of the committee know, the traffickers often pay their couriers in product rather than in currency. Well, then you are building up a new clientele base. We in the United States have to be willing, and have already looked at providing resources that work toward the prevention end of drug use in that country, but also the treatment end, and those are other parts that we hope to play. Chairman Towns. I yield to the gentleman from California, Congressman Issa. Mr. Issa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bersin, during your tenure as U.S. attorney, you were quite well known for going after the coyotes, literally stopping those who traffic in human beings; and along the way you did an awful lot of drug charges that they were involved in and the mules they carried. Can you give us your opinion of current law, particularly 1326, 1324, some of the penalties that you have--let me rephrase that, that the U.S. attorney at the border areas have as tools today, and are they sufficient? Mr. Bersin. Mr. Issa, you raise an important point, particularly in this era in which the sharp division that used to exist between alien smuggling organizations and drug smuggling organizations has been blurred, in part by the efforts Mr. Breuer described, the pressure being brought on the cartels by U.S. enforcement, but, importantly, by Mexican enforcement, but also by the recessionary economy. So we begin to see a blurring of those lines, and I believe, certainly speaking from the perspective of 10 years ago, the series of statutes available to prosecutors--and I will defer immediately to Mr. Breuer, since I wear proudly a former hat as a prosecutor--but as an enforcement official, I would say that 1326 and 1325, which, of course, is a misdemeanor, work well. 1324, which is the penalties for alien smugglers, is something that, 10 years, was believed to require review, and I submit, regardless of how we come out on it, it could stand a further review at this point. Mr. Issa. Mr. Breuer, basically what I am trying to get to is we have had a challenge at the border that I have observed, which is that the first several times that you catch a trafficker, he gets treated almost as an amateur, like he just happened to be stumbling over the border by mistake; it is 60 days and out, time served. The second time isn't much more. And we have had cases of dozens and dozens of times in which we cannot get, sometimes because of statute, we can't get the kind of enforcement. All three of you, do you believe that the Congress should be looking into giving you, as prosecutors, and the courts, in their determination, at least a greater ability to have the lower limits raised and/or give them the ability to have tougher sentences even on the first or second time that you catch a trafficker, regardless of whether you can actually catch him with the drugs? Mr. Breuer. Thank you, Congressman. I definitely think it is an issue that needs to be explored. I think what we need to do is we need to give the tools particularly to our U.S. attorneys such as what Secretary Bersin was when he was the remarkably effective U.S. attorney in San Diego. I think we need to give our U.S. attorneys, particularly in the southwest border States, the discretion and the tools so that they can effectively and comprehensively deal with the issue. But I don't think, candidly, that there is one size fits all, and I think we have to give our U.S. attorneys in those areas the discretion to prioritize, because, if we are going to charge under one aspect of the law such as this, we have to then ensure that we have appropriate facilities, whether it is prison facilities and other facilities---- Mr. Issa. Well, let me go back through that. Mr. Breuer. Sure. Mr. Issa. California has tens of thousands of people who are petty criminals and illegal aliens. Are you saying that if we wanted to incarcerate every coyote, every person who is trafficking either in drugs or in human beings, that you don't have the capacity today to incarcerate every single one of those people for a significant period of time? Mr. Breuer. I think that there would be terrific challenges, Congressman. I think that to have the appropriate facilities and infrastructure to do that would require a lot. And more to the point, as we look at this comprehensive approach, what we really want to do is give our U.S. attorneys the tools so that we can most effectively dismantle the very cartels that you are talking about. Mr. Issa. Well, the only tool a prosecutor really has is the ability to incarcerate. Any tool short of that is an alternate. In other words, if you turn on the rest of your cartel, we will not lock you up for 10 years. That is a powerful tool. If you turn on your cartel or you are going to spend 60 days in the hoosegow, somehow I don't think that is a powerful tool. So the reason I am asking for this is threefold. First of all, should we have it? I think Mr. Bersin was more tending to say he wouldn't mind having the stronger tools at his disposal and at the judges' disposal to use that as a tool in order to get cooperation and, in many cases, incarceration. But the bigger question for us up here is are we clogging the system with not having comprehensive immigration reform, with not having relations with Mexico that allows us to return more of their citizens sooner with a full faith belief that they will incarcerate them? So although my time has expired and I have to be sensitive to the limited time, I would like it if you would look at it from that standpoint, because we are the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, and we are the first stop in are there tools you don't have, either north or south of the border, that we could begin shedding light on. Mr. Breuer. Congressman, I think you have identified exactly, in a very eloquent way, the issue. We absolutely, as a component of this, ought to have comprehensive immigration reform. There is just absolutely no question. Second, in our building of our relationships with the Mexican government and President Calderon, a very effective tool, of course, is that we, in certain circumstances, do want to be able to return people to Mexico and know and have confidence that the Mexican government is going to treat them appropriately. So absolutely those are parts of the puzzle. Chairman Towns. Thank you very much. I now yield to the gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Tierney. Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, do we fully appreciate the amount of corruption and the depth of the corruption that is involved? With the large amount of money that is indicated that is involved with this that is going into Mexico and the reports that we see about corruption in the police departments, corruption in the military, corruption in the judicial system, what can we do about that? What are we doing about it? And what confidence do you have that we are going to get a grip on that? Because without taking the profit out of this thing and deal with that money, we are just spinning our wheels, right? Mr. Breuer. Congressman, it is an enormous challenge, you are absolutely right. One of the effective tools that we do have and that we hope to do more of is our ability through Merida and other initiatives to work with and train law enforcement in Mexico. We are making great strides with respect to training vetted units, units that we have a lot of confidence in are in fact not subject to bribery, whether it is because, to be vetted, they are subject to polygraphs and a kind of background review---- Mr. Tierney. Do you mind if I interrupt you for a second? You are talking about the military as opposed to police there? Mr. Breuer. No, I am talking about the police as well. I am talking about the police. Mr. Tierney. You would agree there is a significant amount of fear amongst police officers right there now? No matter how much you train them and how much you give them the pay, sometimes either going away or taking the money is a lot better alternative than having your family violated or be killed yourself. Mr. Breuer. And that is why it is such an enormous challenge. But there are many courageous law enforcement units in Mexico and these vetted units are a good representation of them. Mr. Tierney. Doubtless there are a lot of courageous people there, but don't we have to do something about the money, about the cash? I mean, if we stop the profit, we stop the cash, we are a long way along, I would think. So tell me what are your thoughts about the importance of disrupting the cartels' drug activity by seizing their money and what are we going to do to do that? Mr. Breuer. Well, you are right, and I will defer to my colleagues here as well, but, of course, what we are doing is, from the law enforcement point of view and, of course, at the Justice Department we have unparalleled levels of forfeiture and seizure of the profits and the money and the possessions of the cartel members. Frankly, one of our training programs is to teach and incorporate, even in Mexico, the same concept of forfeiture and seizure of their assets. Mr. Tierney. But don't we have to do that further back the line? Mr. Bersin, don't you agree? Mr. Bersin. Absolutely. Congressman, one of the changes that has taken place recently is the frank acknowledgment on our end of the bargain that the consumption of drugs in this country that generates through trafficking organizations the kinds of sums of money that have corrupted Mexican politics and its legal system is something that will continue until we get a better handle on reducing the demand. Mr. Tierney. So how are we going to get that money further up the chain while it is in the United States, before it goes south? Mr. Bersin. With regard to the drug demand reduction, the Southwest Border Strategy that was unveiled by the AG, by Director Kerlikowske and the Secretary, place a heavy emphasis on that and it does so on the border. Mr. Tierney. I see that, but there is still, at least in the interim, until we all manage to have a heavy effort on that, is going to be that cash. Mr. Bersin. The cash going south is again another departure that has been made by Secretary Napolitano, having CBP and the Border Patrol, as well as field office, pay attention to that, so that, for the first time, while we had them in the past, we have systematic checks going southbound. And this is a project that is very much geared to cooperating with Mexico as it builds up its enforcement capacity, again, for the first time-- -- Mr. Tierney. I guess part of my concern is that a couple months ago you had sporadic checks going southbound--I think much too sporadic to be very effective--and we may not have the infrastructure there to really be effective on that. So, again, what are you going to do about the infrastructure there to make sure that we have a southbound steady impact on that and then further back the line? Because by the time it gets to the border, with the tunnels--that I hope to get to in a moment-- things of that nature, it may be too late. Mr. Bersin. Congressman, you are right that it wasn't until mid-April, when the Secretary changed the policy, that we went from very sporadic checks to systematic checks from Brownsville to San Diego. We need to continue to assess the effectiveness of that and particularly to see this as a bridge to Mexican capacity to conduct its inspections, which it is now building up, again, from Matamoros on the east to Tijuana on the west. We need to assess that. Whether or not we should be making a major investment in infrastructure to have two southbound checks, one United States and one Mexican, is one that certainly is on the table, but I think we need to learn a lot more about the response to this action. Mr. Tierney. Is there anything in the plan about coming further back to the chain before things get to the Southwest Border? Mr. Bersin. No question. Mr. Tierney. What aggressively are we going to do with that? Mr. Kerlikowske. There is a lot of progress. There are a couple of things that are being done besides those increased searches at the border. They are using local law enforcement to help with that, so in Seattle we sent officers trained with canines, along with the Sheriff's Department and others, at the request of the Federal Government. All of these local law enforcement agencies across the country are more than willing to do their part to help. That is only one part. The other, the High Intensity Drug Trafficking Areas, they are in 28 places around the United States. Their mission is to disrupt and dismantle those drug trafficking organizations. Often, they have the routes in Mexico. They not only seize the drugs, make the arrests, work with Federal prosecutors or local prosecutors, but they also go after the funds and the money. So you are not just stopping the bulk cash at border, you are stopping the bulk cash in Seattle and California and other places. And there is progress; there is more training being done on that. In Treasury, FinCEN is working very hard under the new credit card act to develop ways of looking at the use of just a card that is going to carry thousands of dollars of cash. There is a lot more to be done, but there is a lot of progress on that front. Choking off the money is the key. Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Towns. Gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Quigley. Mr. Quigley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, I know the issue of the National Guard was raised broadly earlier. Is it accurate there are about 500 National Guardsmen on the Southwest Border as we speak? Mr. Bersin. There are a complement of National Guard that have been engaged in an ongoing project that has been in existence for more than two decades in support of law enforcement activities, and I believe that number is one that I need to confirm. I do know that most of the Guardsmen are actually away from the border, engaged in intelligence, analytical activities, and the like. But I need to confirm whether it is 400 or some smaller number that are actually physically on the border today. Mr. Quigley. Well, two followups. The first would be the activities that they are completing as you talk about, do they relate to these drug cartel activities? Mr. Bersin. The counterdrug program that has been in existence for two decades, and that I am very familiar with from my time as a prosecutor in the 1990's, is definitely counterdrug in nature. That is the basis that Congress has authorized the activity and these are activities that involve supporting law enforcement in a variety of ways that are consistent with the division between law enforcement and the military that served this country well over the years. Mr. Quigley. You have probably read about the press accounts that discussed the possibility of the administration increasing this number of National Guardsmen, perhaps to another 1500. Is that your understanding or is that still in the planning stages? Mr. Bersin. This is all in the discussion stage, as I indicated, Congressman, between Secretary Napolitano, Secretary Gates. Together, they intend to make a joint recommendation to the President, who retains and will make the final decision. Mr. Quigley. OK. And excuse me if this has been discussed, because we are between votes in two committees here, but we have had in previous hearings such as this discussions about the conflicts between DEA and ICE, and I understand there has been an agreement that was signed on this. What exactly was the problem and how does this solve it, and do you sense that it is solving that issue? Mr. Breuer. Well, what it shows, Congressman, is the issue with ICE and DEA, they just entered into a Memorandum of Understanding. I think it is fair to say that there is a remarkable commitment to work together and that they in fact have been working well together, but now what happens is that ICE and DEA can work together. ICE agents can be designated to pursue drug-related crimes that are border related, but they can do that throughout the country; and, very importantly, the information that ICE gathers in its investigations can be shared in one of our remarkable data fusion centers so that all of the information from ICE and DEA and other law enforcement is shared together, so it comprehensively and effectively can be used to go after the cartels. Mr. Quigley. And there is perhaps an information loop that will follow back to make sure that continues to be the case? Mr. Breuer. There is, and there is a very great commitment by DEA and ICE, Homeland Security, and the Department of Justice to ensure that will happen, and I am quite confident it will. Mr. Bersin. Congressman, on the second panel you will have a working agent from Immigration Customs Information from DHS who I think will speak very directly to your inquiry. Mr. Breuer. And Assistant Director Placido from the DEA can as well, Congressman. Mr. Quigley. Time permitting, I guess, the third point being we often hear this figure that 90 percent of the guns confiscated in this conflict come from the United States. Given that we are not necessarily tracing all those guns, perhaps a fraction of them, how are we determining that figure? Mr. Breuer. Well, I think, Congressman, the precise number may be a little bit hard to identify. Of course, you are absolutely right, of those guns recovered for which one can trace them, I think that number that you have identified is the number that has been said, and I think that is right. I think the larger issue is that it is inescapable that a very large percentage of the guns that are in Mexico today do in fact come from the United States, and as we together are joining with our friends in Mexico to combat the battle, that is one of the issues that we all have to confront here ourselves. Mr. Quigley. Why aren't more guns traced? Is it just because some of them are untraceable or just the volume makes it difficult for ATF to trace? Mr. Breuer. Well, Congressman, what may work is in the second panel, Billy Hoover of ATF is here. He can, in a much more cogent manner than I, explain some of the intricacies there. But, of course, when possible, a good number of them have been traced. But I think he will be in a better position than I to tell you some of the challenges that ATF has found. Mr. Quigley. And I appreciate that. We will have a second panel. Mr. Chairman, just in closing, I suppose it would be easier to control that if we continue what the Clinton administration did, which was a ban on semiautomatic weapons. It is a lot easier to control them if they are not being sold. Chairman Towns. The gentleman's time has expired. The gentlewoman from Washington, DC. Ms. Norton. Well, I would like to pick up where the gentleman left off. I was, frankly, embarrassed by the performance of our country when the terrible episodes of armed conflict some thought might even bring down the Government. It may have been somewhat exaggerated. Here was the President trying to fight the gun cartels, and guess who was supplying the guns? And turns out not only are we not configured to find these guns, even with the most elementary inspection capacity, but keystone cop fashion, when we did some sporadic outbound inspections, they just looked at where you were doing them and got their guns out anyway. The notion that this country would have been so central to the supply of guns, which were in such plentiful supply that it was like an army that the Government itself was up against, not just a bunch of thugs. They had so much weaponry. So we know we are not doing much once you get guns. We know it doesn't take much to get them to Mexico. I am far more interested in how these thugs so easily pick up guns in this country and these guns are being sold. Assistant Secretary Breuer, how you could pick up a large cache of guns, equip yourself as if you were an army with such force that the Government, for a while there, was essentially fighting an internal army supplied in no small part by the United States of America. Now, where do these guns come from? How are they able to pick them up in such large numbers? How are they able to get out what amounts to enough guns to arm a virtual small army, many of them from the United States? And regardless of the figures and the notion that, well, a lot of them came from X, Y, or Z, you know exactly where they came from, Mr. Breuer. And while you may not be able to trace them, you have law enforcement jurisdiction in the United States of America, and why are you not keeping these guns from being either bought or otherwise in such large numbers so that they now arm a small army in another country? It is extremely embarrassing. Mexico has been, I think, very kind to us. I would have been very, very angry at the big kahuna in the north that was essentially shipping down arms to kill my people while they won't do anything about its own assault weapon ban, while nobody in your administration even spoke out about illegal guns and the proliferation of guns in our country, except the Attorney General did say something about it. So it looks like all you have to do is get some guns and you will get them across the border very easily, and nobody in the United States is doing very much to keep thugs from acquiring those guns in the first place. I am interested in this country, what you are doing here, before you get to the border. Mr. Breuer. Well, Congresswoman, I share your concern. I want to begin by saying that there are people who are working very hard. Our ATF agents are doing an extraordinary job with their resources, Congresswoman. Ms. Norton. What are they doing? Who is selling the guns? Who is selling the guns, sir? Where are the guns coming from? Mr. Breuer. Well, I think they are coming from a lot of places, Congresswoman. I think they are coming from licensed firearm dealers, where you have straw purchasers. The power of these cartels is extraordinary and, as you know, their reach is great. So we have to dismantle those cartels. But some are coming from licensed firearm dealers some on the Southwest Border---- Ms. Norton. Is there nothing you can do about those coming from licensed---- Mr. Breuer. Well, our ATF agents are doing a lot, but they have limited resources, Congresswoman. Ms. Norton. What are they doing? Mr. Breuer. What are they doing? They are going to these licensees; they are doing inspections. Ms. Norton. Are they doing any undercover work? Mr. Breuer. Yes, they are, Congresswoman, they are doing a lot, and they are sharing it with lots of agencies. So it is not fair to be critical of our agents. With the resources that they have, they are doing extraordinary jobs and every day they are serving the American people well. Ms. Norton. I am critical of your leadership, sir. I don't know about your agents. I love the ATF. Mr. Breuer. Well, Congresswoman---- Ms. Norton. I am talking about what it takes to dismantle the gun cartel in this country that is not only enabling, but making possible---- Chairman Towns. The gentlewoman's time has expired. Let me first thank you for your testimony and again apologize for the delay. We will hold the record open. If you can get some information for us. The arrest rate seems to be very aggressive in terms of what is happening in Mexico, but could you get us some information on the convictions? It is one thing to make a lot of arrests, but I want to know if we can get some information in terms of the percentage in terms of convictions, we would appreciate it. We will hold the record open for it. Mr. Breuer. Absolutely. Chairman Towns. That is a good point, too. Lengths of sentences as well. Yes, that is a good point. So we will hold the record open for that information. Thank you very, very much. Mr. Breuer. Thank you very much. Chairman Towns. Now we will bring up our second panel: Mr. Anthony P. Placido, Mr. Kumar Kibble, Mr. Todd Owen, Mr. William Hoover, and Mr. Robert McBrien. [Pause.] Chairman Towns. Would you please rise so I can swear you in? [Witnesses sworn.] Chairman Towns. Let the record reflect that they all answered in the affirmative. Let me introduce our second panel of witnesses. Anthony P. Placido is the Assistant Administrator for Intelligence Drug Enforcement Administration, U.S. Department of Justice, welcome; Mr. Kumar Kibble, Deputy Director of the Office of Investigations, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Department of Homeland Security, welcome; Mr. Todd Owen, Acting Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Office of Field Operations, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, U.S. Department of Homeland Security; Mr. William Hoover, Assistant Director of Field Operations, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, U.S. Department of Justice; and Mr. J. Robert McBrien, Associate Director of Investigations and Enforcement, Office of Foreign Assets Control, Department of the Treasury. Gentlemen, it is our committee policy, of course, that 5 minutes for your presentation and then you allow us an opportunity to raise questions with you. So why don't we just go right down the line. I guess, Mr. Owen, you first, and then just go right down the line that way, make it a lot easier. STATEMENTS OF TODD OWEN, ACTING DEPUTY ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER, OFFICE OF FIELD OPERATIONS, U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY; KUMAR KIBBLE, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS, U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY; ANTHONY P. PLACIDO, ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR FOR INTELLIGENCE, DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION; WILLIAM HOOVER, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR FIELD OPERATIONS, BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE; AND J. ROBERT McBRIEN, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR FOR INVESTIGATIONS AND ENFORCEMENT, OFFICE OF FOREIGN ASSETS CONTROL, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TREASURY STATEMENT OF TODD OWEN Mr. Owen. Good afternoon, Chairman Towns, Ranking Member Issa, distinguished members of the committee. Good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today to discuss the efforts that U.S. Customs and Border Protection is undertaking to secure our Nation. I am pleased to be here with my colleagues from ICE, DEA, ATF, and OFAC. I would also like to express my gratitude to the Congress for its continued support of the mission and people of CBP. Among the numerous priorities that were recognized in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, Congress provided CBP with $680 million for greatly needed improvements to our aging infrastructure at our ports of entry, to enhance our tactical communications equipment, and upgrade our non- intrusive inspection technologies. This funding will allow CBP to more efficiently meet our twin goals of border security and facilitation. CBP has taken significant steps to protect Americans from the many threats that face our Nation. This afternoon, I would like to focus my remarks on the violence along the Southwest Border, particularly in regards to the outbound enforcement activities occurring at the ports of entry. The campaign of violence being waged by drug cartels in Mexico remains a major concern. Illegal drugs, money, and weapons flow both ways across our border and link the United States and Mexico in this battle. In response to this threat, the Department of Homeland Security has implemented a Southwest Border Security Strategy and CBP's Office of Field Operations is responsible for implementing this strategy at our ports of entry. We in CBP Field Operations have taken significant action on the Southwest Border, having enhanced our outbound enforcement efforts through the deployment of additional manpower, equipment, and technology. On a regular and recurring basis, teams of CBP officers, CBP border patrol agents, special agents from ICE and other Federal agencies, along with our State and local law enforcement partners, are now conducting outbound inspections at our ports of entry with a focus on interdicting firearms and currency heading into Mexico. CBP's mobile response teams are also quickly utilized to shift personnel between the ports of entry to further disrupt outbound smuggling efforts. These personnel are supported by non-intrusive inspection equipment which allows us to quickly scan a conveyance for the presence of anomalies, anomalies which may indicate contraband of some sort. CBP Field Operations currently deploys 227 large-scale inspection systems to our ports of entry, 91 of which are along the Southwest Border. Many of these systems are mobile, which can and are being used in our outbound interdiction efforts as well. And CBP is again grateful for the $100 million in stimulus funding which will allow us to upgrade our NII systems. We are also deploying dual detection canines, which are trained to detect both currency and firearms. We are adding additional canine assets to the Southwest Border throughout the summer as these teams come out from the academy in Front Royal, VA, and these detection tools will again allow our officers to quickly scan the southbound traffic looking for bulk cash, currency, and firearms. We are seeing the success of these increased outbound interdiction efforts. Since CBP began these initiatives with our partners on March 12th, we have seized more than $15.8 million in illicit currency destined for Mexico. We are also pursuing activities which increase support and collaboration with our Mexican counterpart. At United States and Mexican border crossings, joint operations with Mexican Customs have begun and more are planned in an effort to better coordinate the inspection of travelers and cargo leaving the United States heading into Mexico. Chairman Towns, Ranking Member Issa, members of the committee, thank you for your support that CBP has had in meeting many of our border security responsibilities. I thank you for the opportunity to be here this afternoon and would be happy to address any of your questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Owen follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Towns. Thank you very much for your testimony, Mr. Owen. Mr. Kibble. STATEMENT OF KUMAR KIBBLE Mr. Kibble. Chairman Towns, Ranking Member Issa, and distinguished members of the committee, on behalf of Secretary Napolitano and Assistant Secretary Morton, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to discuss ICE's role in securing the border through the investigation and enforcement of the Nation's immigration and customs laws. As the primary investigative agency within DHS, ICE targets transnational criminal networks and terrorist organizations that might exploit potential vulnerabilities at our borders. Our partnerships are essential to this effort. ICE recently strengthened two of these crucial partnerships by renegotiating agreements with the DEA and the ATF. These agreements will improve and enhance information sharing and promote effective coordination. The violence along our Southwest Border requires a comprehensive and collaborative effort. On March 24th, the Departments of Homeland Security, Justice, and State announced the Southwest Border Initiative designed to crack down on Mexican drug cartels. This initiative was augmented by the recently released 2009 National Southwest Border Counternarcotics Strategy. Since the March announcement, we have seen significant increases in seizures of drugs and currency compared to the same time period in 2008. During the period between the March announcement and June 23rd of this year, ICE and CBP together have increased narcotics and U.S. currency seizures by over 40 percent. ICE continues to work with its Federal partners to collaborate in various ways. For example, in 2005, DHS created the Border Enforcement Security Task Force. The 15 BESTs are a series of ICE-led multi-agency task forces that identify, disrupt, and dismantle criminal organizations posing significant threats to border security. Since 2005, the BESTs have reported over 4,000 criminal arrests and seized over 200,000 pounds of narcotics, over 2500 weapons, and over 370,000 rounds of ammunition, including $26 million in U.S. currency and monetary instruments. One recent success story was exemplified through a joint BEST investigation between ICE, ATF, and the El Paso Police Department, which led to the indictment of four individuals attempting to purchase and illegally export weapons and ammunition out of the United States. The weapons they attempted to purchase and smuggle included 300 AR-15 rifles, 300 short- barrel .223 caliber rifles, 10 Barrett .50 caliber sniper rifles, two 40 millimeter grenade machine guns, and 20 handguns with silencers, as well as a large amount of ammunition. The firearms would have had a total street value of over half a million dollars. Given the success of the BEST model, ICE has shifted investigators to these task forces and doubled the number of agents working on BESTs along the Southwest Border from 95 to 190. This greatly expands our ability to work with State and local law enforcement on cartel-related crime occurring on the U.S. side of the border. A large number of weapons recovered in Mexico's drug wars are smuggled illegally into Mexico from the United States. Clearly, stopping this flow must be an urgent priority, and ICE is uniquely positioned to address this challenge. In June 2008, ICE, along with CBP and other Federal, State, and local partners, launched Operation Armas Cruzadas. Since its inception, Armas Cruzadas has resulted in the seizure of 1,600 weapons, more than $6.4 million, and over 180,000 rounds of ammunition, and the arrest of 386 individuals. In addition to addressing weapons smuggling, ICE has partnered with CBP through Operation Firewall to combat the illegal movement of cash across the Southwest Border. Since its inception, Firewall has resulted in the seizure of over $210 million, including over $65 million seized overseas and 475 arrests. ICE also recently established the Trade Transparency Unit with Mexico to identify cross-border trade anomalies, which are often indicative of trade-based money laundering schemes. Under this initiative, ICE and its partners in cooperating countries exchange import and export data and financial information. These efforts have led to more than $50 million in cash seized during the last fiscal year. We proactively attack groups engaged in human smuggling and trafficking by initiating investigations beyond the borders. ICE is a major participant in and supporter of the Interagency Human Smuggling and Trafficking Center, which targets human smugglers, traffickers, and terrorist travel facilitators. We have identified various methods and routes used by criminal networks to smuggle people into the United States. To target these methods and routes, ICE, in partnership with DOJ, formed the Extraterritorial Criminal Travel Strike Force in June 2006, combining our investigative, prosecutorial, and intelligence resources to target, disrupt, and dismantle foreign-based criminal travel networks. Complementary to the ECT program is the pivotal role ICE continues to play as a co- chair of the targeting project of the Interagency Working Group on Alien Smuggling. In conclusion, ICE is committed to working with this committee and Congress to address the significant challenges we face to secure the border through the enforcement of our Nation's immigration and customs laws. I thank the committee for its support of ICE and our law enforcement mission, and I would be pleased to answer any questions you may have. [The prepared statement of Mr. Kibble follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Towns. Thank you very much, Mr. Kibble. Mr. Placido. STATEMENT OF ANTHONY P. PLACIDO Mr. Placido. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman, Ranking Member Issa, I appreciate the opportunity to represent the views of the Drug Enforcement Administration on this important issue regarding the rise of criminality in Mexican cartels and their implications for U.S. national security. As the lead agency for enforcing the drug laws of the United States, DEA is keenly aware of the critical requirement to break the power and impunity of transnational crime groups such as the Mexican cartels. These groups not only supply enormous quantities of illicit drugs to our country, with adverse consequences in terms of addiction, lost productivity, and related social costs, but, left unchecked, threaten regional stability because they undermine respect for the rule of law, diminish public confidence in government institutions, and promote lawlessness through corruption, intimidation, and violence. The good news is that, together with our highly committed and increasingly capable Mexican partners and the generous support of Congress through the Merida Initiative, we are bringing unprecedented pressure against these cartels in helping fortify Mexico's criminal justice system to assure that these gains can be sustained over time. The drug trade in Mexico has been rife with violence for decades. However, intentionally gruesome drug-related violence, kidnapping, torture, and murder have remained at elevated levels since President Calderon initiated his bold, comprehensive program to break the power of the cartels. And I believe they have distributed some of the photos that demonstrate the extent of that brutality. Mr. Issa. Mr. Chairman, I would ask unanimous consent that they be placed in the record but not shown, because they are literally too gruesome, I think, for open showing. I think the gentleman would agree. Chairman Towns. Without objection, so ordered. Mr. Placido. Mexican cities along our Southwest Border, such as Juarez and Tijuana, have witnessed spectacular violence despite the fact that El Paso and San Diego are among some of the safest cities in America. Drug-related killings in Mexico have escalated from approximately 1,200 in 2006 to more than 6,200 in 2008, and during the first 6 months of this year there have been approximately 3,600, putting it on par to exceed last year's numbers. In the past, the violence was largely confined to persons engaged in the drug trade. But there has been a disturbing new trend wherein Mexican military and law enforcement officials are being intentionally targeted by the cartels. Moreover, in an effort intended to break the will of the government of Mexico to confront these vicious criminals, the mutilated the decapitated bodies of the victims are frequently left with signs warning of even greater violence. Even if this carnage can be confined to Mexican territory, it has adverse consequences to U.S. national security. There is justifiable concern that the violence plaguing Mexico will spill across our border and have an even more pronounced effect on Americans. The U.S. interagency has attempted to distinguish between the criminal-on-criminal violence that has always been associated with the drug trade and the new phenomenon of retaliatory violence against Mexican officials and institutions. Accordingly, we have defined spillover violence to entail deliberate attacks by the cartel on U.S. Government personnel, whether in the United States or Mexico, innocent civilians in the United States, or U.S. Government facilities, including our embassies and consulates. Based on this definition, we have not yet seen a significant level of spillover violence; however, as you have heard, we must, and are, building contingency plans for the worst case scenario. Moreover, I would reemphasize that even if confined to Mexico, the drug-related violence seriously undermines respect for the rule of law and degrades confidence in Mexican institutions. By extension, instability in Mexico has serious national security implications here at home, as well as adverse consequences in Central America and beyond. DEA continues to work in cooperation with its Federal, State, local, and foreign counterparts to address these threats. DEA's organizational attack strategy is an attempt to systematically disrupt and dismantle the command and control elements of these criminal syndicates. Key to this strategy is sharing information in coordination with our counterparts through the Special Operations Division, the OCDETF Fusion Center, and the El Paso Intelligence Center. In Mexico, DEA has the largest U.S. law enforcement presence, and its partnership with the Calderon administration is mounting sustained attacks against these cartels. The disruption and dismantle of these organizations, the denial of proceeds, and the seizure of their assets significantly impact the ability of these cartels to exercise influence and further destabilize the region. Projects Reckoning and Operation Accelerator are recent examples of this collaboration. While these collaborative operations are intended to break the power of the cartels, in the short-term they also exacerbate the violence in Mexico. Briefly, I would also like to address an issue of concern that was recently highlighted by the GAO pertaining to collaboration and cooperation between ICE and DEA. As someone who began my career with then U.S. Customs Service, now ICE, I want to underscore the importance of cooperation in law enforcement and DEA's unwavering support for the recently signed Interagency Cooperation Agreement between DEA and ICE. Both Secretary Napolitano and Attorney General Holder have made clear that this agreement is the most efficient and effective way to promote interagency coordination and cooperation. The agreement addresses the concerns of both agencies, without the need for legislative action, by allowing the cross-designation of an unlimited number of ICE agents to employ Title 21 investigative authority and also strengthens information sharing and coordination protocols. Chairman Towns, Ranking Member Issa, members of the committee, I thank you for the opportunity to testify and stand ready to answer questions. Chairman Towns. Thank you very much for your testimony. Mr. Hoover. STATEMENT OF WILLIAM HOOVER Mr. Hoover. Thank you, sir. Chairman Towns, Congressman Bilbray, and other distinguished members of the committee, I am William Hoover, Acting Deputy Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. On behalf of Acting Director Ken Melson, I am honored to appear before you today to discuss ATF's ongoing role of disrupting firearms from being illegally trafficked from the United States into Mexico and working to reduce the associated violence along the border. For over 30 years, ATF has been protecting our citizens and communities from violent criminals and criminal organizations by safeguarding them from the illegal use of both firearms and explosives. We are responsible for both regulating the firearms and explosive industries and enforcing the criminal laws relating to those commodities. ATF has the experience, expertise, and commitment to investigate and disrupt groups and individuals who obtain guns in the United States and illegally traffic them into Mexico in facilitation of the drug trade. The combination of ATF's crime- fighting expertise, specific statutory and regulatory authority, analytical capability, and strategic partnerships is used to combat firearms trafficking both along the U.S. borders and throughout our nation. We know we do not fight this battle alone. Last week, ATF hosted a violent crime and arms trafficking summit in Albuquerque, NM. This conference was monumental in establishing a formal partnership between ATF and ICE. At this conference, a Memorandum of Understanding was signed by the leaders of both agencies, establishing how we will work together on investigations regarding firearms trafficking. This agreement also establishes a notification process that each agency will follow while conducting these investigations. ATF's strategy for disrupting the flow of firearms to Mexico through Project Gunrunner has referred over 882 cases for prosecution, involving 1,838 defendants. Those cases include 415 for firearms trafficking, which involved 1,135 defendants and an estimated 13,382 firearms. ATF has said that 90 percent of the firearms seized in Mexico and traced come from the United States. The GAO report that was published in June 2009 concurred with our findings. We have established that the greatest proportion of firearms trafficked to Mexico originate out of the States along the Southwest Border. Additionally, trace data shows that traffickers are also acquiring firearms from other States as far east as Florida and as far north and west as Washington State. Additionally, Mexican officials have seen an increase in the number of explosive devices used in these violent attacks. ATF agents and explosives experts work with the Mexican military and law enforcement to identify and determine where these devices and components originate. Along the Southwest Border, ATF's Project Gunrunner includes approximately 148 special agents dedicated to investigating firearms trafficking on a full-time basis and 59 industry operations investigators responsible for conducting regulatory inspections of federally licensed gun dealers, known as FFLs. We recently sent over 100 additional personnel to the Houston Field Division to support our effort against the trafficking of firearms to Mexico. In addition, ATF has received a total of $25 million in new funding in fiscal year 2009 and in fiscal year 2010 for Project Gunrunner. As the sole agency that regulates FFLs, roughly 7,000 of which are along the Southwest Border, ATF has the statutory authority to inspect and examine the records and inventory of licensees, looking for firearms trafficking trends and patterns, and revoking the license of those who are complicit in firearms trafficking. For instance, ATF used its regulatory authority to review the records of an FFL that received close to 2,000 firearms, removed their serial numbers, and trafficked them to Mexico with the aid of a co-conspirator located in Mexico. A key component of ATF's strategy to curtail firearms trafficking to Mexico is the tracing of firearms seized in both countries. Our analysis of this aggregate trace data can reveal trafficking trends and networks showing where the guns are being purchased and who is purchasing them. Let me share an example of how trace data can identify a firearms trafficker. ATF's analysis of a trace data linked a man living in a U.S. city along the border to three crime guns recovered at three different crime scenes in Mexico. Further investigation uncovered that he was the purchaser of a fourth firearm recovered at yet another crime scene in Mexico, and that he had purchased over 100 AR-15 type receivers and 7 additional firearms within a short time span using nine different FFL wholesale distributors as sources for his guns. In April 2008, ATF seized 80 firearms from the suspect and learned that he was manufacturing guns in his home. He sold over 100 guns alone to an individual who is suspected of being linked to a cartel. Investigative leads are being pursued and charges are pending. Last, I would like to mention ATF's operational presence at the El Paso Intelligence Center, located in El Paso, TX. EPIC is certainly one of the most valuable tools for intelligence sharing and coordination in multi-agency efforts to curb violence and firearms trafficking activities along the Southwest Border. At EPIC, we operate what is known as the ATF Gun Desk. The mission of the Gun Desk is to identify and analyze all firearms and explosives-related data acquired and collected from law enforcement and open source. This would include Mexican military and law enforcement, and also U.S. law enforcement assets operating on both sides of the border. We at ATF will continue with our efforts along the Southwest Border and will harvest our partnerships with not only our law enforcement partners within the United States, but will continue to work with the Mexican officials in Mexico to obtain more information to better understand the flow of firearms from our country into theirs. Chairman Towns, Congressman Bilbray, and other distinguished members of the committee, on behalf of the men and women of ATF, I thank you and your staff for your continued support of our crucial work. With the backing of this committee, ATF can continue to fight violent crime in the Nation's cities and on the border, making our Nation even more secure. I look forward to your questions. Chairman Towns. Thank you very much, Mr. Hoover, for your testimony. Mr. McBrien. STATEMENT OF J. ROBERT McBRIEN Mr. McBrien. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Bilbray, other members of the committee, I am pleased to be here today on behalf of the Office of Foreign Assets Control of the Treasury Department. I will try to compress the statement as we go through it for the interest of time and so that we can get into the questions and answers. The Office of Foreign Assets Control's mission is to enforce economic sanctions in support of U.S. foreign policy and national security. In the particular instance of Mexico, we are talking about using the tool of the Foreign Narcotics Kingpin Designation Act, which Congress passed in 1999. The Kingpin Act has been used in responding to the threat in Mexico since the year 2000, when the first kingpins were named by, at that time, President Bush, and we have continued to use it since that time. So OFAC's involvement in the fight against the drug trafficking organizations in Mexico is not something new, it is something we have been doing, even with the small resources that we have. The authorities delegated to OFAC are national security and foreign policy tools that provide power and leverage against a foreign country, regime, or non-state actors such as foreign narcotics traffickers and terrorists. One of our most powerful instruments, Specially Designated Nationals List [SDN], is used to identify, expose, isolate, and disrupt or incapacitate a foreign adversary with the intended result of denying them access to the U.S. financial and commercial system, and immobilizing their resources. OFAC's authorities are administrative in nature, but for persons subject to U.S. jurisdiction, violating OFAC sanctions carries both civil and criminal penalties. Every year since the Kingpin Act was passed, the presence of the United States has added more kingpins to the list. These kingpins are across the world; it is not only Mexico, although Mexico is roughly 50 percent of those that have been named. This year, President Obama moved from the usual June 1st date in which the statute asked that there be a report made, and acted early and, on April 15th, named three of the Mexican cartels that are currently at the center of much of the violence that is going on. We named the Los Zetas, the Sinaloa Cartel, and La Familia Michoacana. Then again in June we named more kingpins, except those were not involving Mexico. These are referred to by OFAC as Tier 1 traffickers. While the President identifies the Tier 1 traffickers, OFAC has been delegated the authority to designate for sanctions those working for or on behalf of, or owned or controlled by, or materially assisting the Tier 1 traffickers. Now, this is the real meat of the counternarcotics sanctions. These Tier 2s, which we also call derivative designations, include the money laundered, the family members complicit in narcotics trafficking activities, the criminal members of the organization, the transportation cells, the logistics, procurement, and communication cells that make up the financial and support networks of drug trafficking organizations. Since 1999, the President has identified 82 Tier 1 traffickers, 37 of which are Mexican. In that same time, OFAC has identified 251 Tier 2 designations in Mexico. In addition to that, under the program on which the Kingpin Act was conceptually based, which is our sanctions against Colombian traffickers under another authority, the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, we have also, under the Colombian program, in recent times, named 30 Mexican entities or individuals who are also involved in the Colombia-to-Mexico part of the drug trade. So the total over these last several years is 288 persons, entities and individuals, that have been named by OFAC for the blocking of their assets and the prohibition on their activities. I am going to skip through parts of this and just get down to some of the nitty gritty here. I said at the outset that our objective is to identify and expose and isolate and delegitimize, immobilize, disrupt, dismantle--however we can do it--the drug trafficking organizations; and we do this by going after the heads of the organizations, key players of the organizations, and perhaps, most important--and this again goes back to the meat of it--the networks, the key nodes, the choke points, the whole support structure that makes up a cartel; not just the people who are moving the drugs, but all the businesses, the infiltrations of the legitimate business world, the front companies that give them their backbone. Our objective is to go after that backbone and try to break it. Ultimately, we hope to be able to expose, halt, and even reverse the penetration of the legitimate economy through our actions. At the same time that we are doing this, we are working collaboratively with all of our colleagues. All of the agencies that are at this table are working with OFAC on these projects. We have relied on and are heavily integrated with DEA, and have been from the very beginning. I cannot say enough for the work that they have done to enable us to carry out our part of the program against the drug trafficking organizations in Mexico. At the same time that we are doing this with our colleagues, we have, since the Calderon administration came into power, been working very closely with the Mexicans on an ever-escalating basis, and we are continuing to do that. I would like to just conclude, if I may, with noting that the Kingpin Act provides a powerful mechanism for acting against the threat to the United States posed by foreign narcotics cartels, whether in Mexico or elsewhere. In the case of our southern neighbor, OFAC's employment of the Kingpin Act authorities provides a growing opportunity for partnership in combating the scourge of the drug trafficking organizations. It is a force multiplier; it presents opportunities not only supportive efforts by DEA and other U.S. criminal enforcement agencies---- Chairman Towns. Mr. McBrien, I am going to have to ask you summarize. Mr. McBrien. Yes, sir. That is actually what I am doing right now, sir. But we are also supporting Mexican authorities. It is an important element in achieving a unity of effort among U.S. Federal, State, and---- Chairman Towns. What I am really saying is your 5 minutes are up. Mr. McBrien [continuing]. Local agencies. Mr. Chairman, I very much appreciate that hint and I thank you for the opportunity to be here today, and we would be glad to hear any questions you may have and try to answer them for you. [The prepared statement of Mr. McBrien follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Towns. Thank you so much for your testimony. Thank you. To the Members, we have votes again. I understand there are three votes. What I would like to do, if we can finish the panel, because we do not know whether there will be some procedural votes or not, so we are not sure how long it will take. So what I would like to do, I would like to yield myself 2 minutes and then yield the ranking member 2 minutes and then yield you 2 minutes, and then we will be able to sort of finish up without having to delay them for the next hour or so. So let me begin by, first of all, asking, you know, the average person has difficulty relating to the fact that we have problems in terms of the drug problems in Mexico. What do we say to the average person out there that we are concerned about what is happening in Mexico? How do we really explain that? Anyone. I guess Mr. Placido or Mr. Kibble. How do we explain to them our interest and our concerns? Mr. Placido. Certainly. Sir, it is an excellent question and I would answer it this way, that there is no country on the face of the earth that is probably more important to the United States than Mexico is to us. We share not only a common border, but immigration issues, trade, economy, the air we breathe, the water we drink, the water we use for irrigation and agriculture. We are closely intertwined, and the national security implications of corruption, intimidation, violence, and instability in Mexico threaten us gravely because of our integrated economy and the integrated nature of our societies. I think it is not only a source of drugs, much of the drugs that are consumed and abused in the United States, but instability south of our border creates problems on a much broader scale. Chairman Towns. Yes, go ahead, Mr. Kibble. Mr. Kibble. Sir, the one thing I would add is it also, from the homeland security standpoint, represents a vulnerability in terms of our borders, and we have to be concerned that any smuggling network that can arbitrarily introduce contraband across our borders, we have to be concerned about them either knowingly or unknowingly facilitating the introduction of national security threats into the homeland. So, for those reasons, from the ICE perspective and the cross-border criminal network perspective, we need to leverage all of our efforts collectively to shut down these networks. Chairman Towns. I yield to the gentleman from California. Mr. Bilbray. I appreciate ICE's comments about anything and anyone who crosses the border without being checked is a potential threat. So we have to tie that together. I am going to ask about the Merida Initiative, but, up front, the laundering of the profits is something we don't talk enough about, and we have traditionally RICO provisions here-- and anybody can jump into this--the requiring viable identification at the time that any individual opens a bank account. The previous administration not only did not enforce it, but endorsed bank accounts being opened with less than secure identification. You know exactly what I am talking about. Are we doing anything to shut down that opportunity to have thousands of bank accounts opened up to where we really don't know who opened those accounts? Are we going back and addressing these issues where we are requiring now a viable ID be issued before we open an account, the way it used to be before the previous administration? Anybody want to comment on that? Mr. McBrien. Mr. Bilbray, I am from Treasury, but I have to admit that I am not in a position to comment on that because that is not part of what the Office of Foreign Assets Control deals with. Mr. Bilbray. I just tell you in San Diego it is a hot issue that you can go to any consulate, get a consulate card without any ID to prove that you are who you say you want to be; and not only were the banks allowing it, but they were condoned by the Bush administration, opening these accounts with no oversight to prove that this was a viable ID. Why have a law if we are not going to apply it to everybody? So I raise that. What are we doing with the Merida Initiative? I am very concerned about two things. Anyone who participates in Mexico in our process, they and their families are going to be suspect. Is there anybody here who can talk about this openly and how we are cooperating and how we are training and how we are supplying Mexico to win the war on their soil before it gets to ours? Mr. Placido. Certainly, sir. Excellent question. I think, as was said on the first panel, there was concern that--I think the way it was characterized is we are one assassination away from having the Merida plan fail. I don't know that I would go that far, but I would certainly say that the Mexican partners with whom we work are extraordinarily vulnerable for their participation with us and for their bold and decisive actions against the cartels. In response to that, there is a great deal of work going on and, under Merida, some of the things that are going on are executive protection plans and training for senior level officials; of course, the vetting that has been discussed in terms of the integrity and the capability of the people that we work with; but there is also institution building, and I think that is the long-term piece of this, is to buildup and develop the courts and the prosecutor cadre so that they take on this problem internally in their own country and break the impunity of these criminal organizations is the long-term solution. Mr. Bilbray. Mr. Chairman, I know my time has expired. I want to point out that one of the crisis--to show you how tough it is--to hold court, you have to hide the identity of the judge, because they not only assassinate judges, they assassinate families. I am going to make a public statement. I think the Merida Initiative should bring young people in from the central part of Mexico and the south, bring them into the United States, we train them here, we keep them here until they are able to do their operations, because as soon as you identify them in Mexico, their family and they are at risk; and as soon as you leave them long periods of time in that environment, they are susceptible for influence by the cartels. So, as a layman who has worked on criminal justice issues along the border a long time, I think we need to be serious about bringing these young men into the United States, train them, keep them here, and allow them to do their job in Mexico when they need to be done, but protect them and their families while they are doing those jobs. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. Chairman Towns. Thank you very much. We are running out of time here, we have to go vote. What can we do to assist you in making certain that you are very successful in your endeavors? What can the Congress do? In other words, let's switch roles for a moment. Mr. Placido. Well, sir, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the question. I think the first thing all the witnesses at this table would have to say is we support the President's budget. But clearly resource constraints are an issue that face us. With $1.4 billion over 3 years projected in the Merida Initiative to assist the governments of Mexico and Central America, there has been relatively little spent on the domestic side of this equation to help the U.S. agencies that must work with them. We are doing the best that we can to prioritize our resources and work within the existing budget constraints, but it is difficult to increase the operational temp of our foreign counterparts without a corresponding ability to do something on the U.S. side. Mr. Bilbray. You want to comment on the lack of jail space? Mr. Placido. Outside of my bailiwick, sir. Mr. Bilbray. Anybody want to comment on that? OK, for the record, we are grossly deficient where we have to choose winners and losers, and this is not a time to do that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the hearing. Chairman Towns. Thank you very much. Just quickly for the record, DEA and ICE, you guys getting along now? [Laughter.] Mr. Placido. Yes, we are, sir. Chairman Towns. We purposely put you together. Thank you very much. Mr. Bilbray. So you are not deporting his mother? That is nice of him. Chairman Towns. Let me just say, first of all, that completes the questioning of this panel. Of course, I would like to give the Members an opportunity to put their opening statements in the record. Without objection, so ordered. Let me just thank all of you witnesses and Members who attended this hearing today. Please let the record demonstrate my submission of a binder with the documents relating to this hearing. Without objection, I enter this binder into the committee record. Without objection, the committee stands adjourned. Thank you so much for coming. [Whereupon, at 2:18 p.m., the committee was adjourned.] [The prepared statements of Hon. Diane E. Watson and Hon. Gerald E. Connolly and additional information submitted for the hearing record follow:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]