[House Hearing, 114 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] CYBERSECURITY: ENSURING THE INTEGRITY OF THE BALLOT BOX ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY OF THE COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION __________ SEPTEMBER 28, 2016 __________ Serial No. 114-165 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov http://www.house.gov/reform __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 26-124 PDF WASHINGTON : 2017 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office, http://bookstore.gpo.gov. For more information, contact the GPO Customer Contact Center, U.S. Government Publishing Office. Phone 202-512-1800, or 866-512-1800 (toll-free). E-mail, [email protected]. COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah, Chairman JOHN L. MICA, Florida ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland, MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio Ranking Minority Member JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York JIM JORDAN, Ohio ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of TIM WALBERG, Michigan Columbia JUSTIN AMASH, Michigan WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee JIM COOPER, Tennessee TREY GOWDY, South Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky BRENDA L. LAWRENCE, Michigan MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina TED LIEU, California RON DeSANTIS, Florida BONNIE WATSON COLEMAN, New Jersey MICK, MULVANEY, South Carolina STACEY E. PLASKETT, Virgin Islands KEN BUCK, Colorado MARK DeSAULNIER, California MARK WALKER, North Carolina BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania ROD BLUM, Iowa PETER WELCH, Vermont JODY B. HICE, Georgia MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM, New Mexico STEVE RUSSELL, Oklahoma EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin WILL HURD, Texas GARY J. PALMER, Alabama Jennifer Hemingway, Staff Director Troy Stock, Information Technology Subcommittee Staff Director William Marx, Clerk David Rapallo, Minority Staff Director ------ Subcommittee on Information Technology WILL HURD, Texas, Chairman BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas, Vice Chair ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois, Ranking MARK WALKER, North Carolina Minority Member ROD BLUM, Iowa GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois TED LIEU, California C O N T E N T S ---------- Page Hearing held on September 28, 2016............................... 1 WITNESSES Mr. Andy Ozment, Assistant Secretary for Cybersecurity and Communications, U.S. Department of Homeland Security Oral Statement............................................... 5 Written Statement............................................ 8 Mr. Thomas Hicks, Commissioner, Chairman, U.S. Election Assistance Commission Oral Statement............................................... 12 Written Statement............................................ 14 The Hon. Brian P. Kemp, Secretary of State, State of Georgia Oral Statement............................................... 21 Written Statement............................................ 23 Mr. Andrew W. Appel, Eugene Higgins Professor of Computer Science, Princeton University Oral Statement............................................... 27 Written Statement............................................ 29 Mr. Lawrence Norden, Deputy Director, Democracy Program, Brennan Center for Justice, New York University School of Law Oral Statement............................................... 38 Written Statement............................................ 40 APPENDIX Letter for the Record regarding federal voter registration submitted by Ranking Member Cummings........................... 84 Article for the Record titled, ``States Ask Feds for Cybersecurity Scans Following Election Hacking Threats,'' submitted by Mr. Lieu.......................................... 88 Checklist for Securing Voter Registration Data, submitted by Mr. Hurd........................................................... 91 Letter for the Record regarding possible Trump connections to cyber attacks, submitted by Ranking Member Cummings............ 93 Open letter from the National Association of Secretaries of State, submitted by Mr. Hurd................................... 99 Statement for the Record of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, submitted by Mr. Hurd.................................. 102 CYBERSECURITY: ENSURING THE INTEGRITY OF THE BALLOT BOX ---------- Wednesday, September 28, 2016 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Information Technology, Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 2:03 p.m., in Room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Will Hurd [chairman of the subcommittee] presiding. Present: Representatives Hurd, Blum, Gosar, Cummings, Kelly, Connolly, and Lieu. Also Present: Representatives Carter and Hice. Mr. Hurd. The Subcommittee on Information Technology will come to order and, without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess at any time. I'd like to inform everybody, we will probably be interrupted by votes sometime between 2:30 and 3:00. So we'll get through as much of this hearing as we can and then likely reconvene after that vote series, which I think is a short series. Thank you all for being here and good afternoon. We're here to talk about voting. Voting is the cornerstone of American democracy and a fundamental right of all Americans. Our existence as a democratic republic is only made possible and legitimate through free and fair elections. Each American's voice should be heard, but to ensure that, we must protect the ballot box. Like everything else in the digital age, however, voting can be vulnerable to hacking. There are about 10,000 election jurisdictions nationwide that administer elections, and even within States, counties use different systems and different technologies to conduct elections. While no longer on the table for this election cycle, State and local election officials, including Secretary Kemp, who is here today, have expressed concern that classifying the election system as critical infrastructure would effectively be a Federal takeover of what has always been a local process. The purpose of this hearing is to examine the threats posed by the entities seeking to disrupt, undermine, or in any way alter the results of this election. But I also hope to initiate and foster discussion about what designating the election system as critical infrastructure would entail. I thank the witnesses for being here today and for their efforts as fellow citizens to ensure that November's elections are free and fair. I would like to now recognize the ranking member of the full committee, Mr. Cummings, for opening remarks. Mr. Cummings. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I thank you for your courtesy. And I thank you and Ms. Kelly for this hearing. I want to thank all of the witnesses that are here today. The focus today on the risk of election integrity posed by cyber threats is a very important one, but that is only a fraction of the risk to our elections. Efforts to hinder eligible voters' access to the ballot box also pose an urgent threat to our elections, to voter rights, and to our very democracy. In January, Election Assistance Commission Executive DirectorBrian Newby, who I see sitting in the audience today, wrote to Alabama, Georgia and Kansas, giving the appearance that he had the unilateral authority to allow these States to change the Federal voter registration form to require proof of citizenship. Mr. Newby's invalid act led to the disenfranchisement of at least, Mr. Chairman, tens of thousands of Kansas voters alone and who knows how many more in other States. Chairman Hicks, as the vice chairman at the time, you stated that Mr. Newby acted unilaterally and that the Commission has, quote, ``affirmed that agency staff does not have the authority to make policy decisions,'' end of quote. I simply could not agree more. This is why I have been investigating this matter with Ranking Member Robert Brady of the Committee on House Administration, and Assistant Democratic Leader Jim Clyburn. Thankfully, a Federal Court has issued an injunction halting and reversing Mr. Newby's invalid action. However, that litigation is ongoing, and I worry about the voters who have already been turned away, perhaps never to be able to vote in this election. Chairman Hicks, Mr. Newby, Mr. Tatum, we are sending you another letter today that outlines our findings thus far. I ask unanimous consent that the letter be entered into the record, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Hurd. Without objection, so ordered. Mr. Cummings. Thank you very much. We learned that Mr. Newby conducted no written analysis regarding the impact of his decision on the ability of eligible voters to register to vote. He also conducted no cost-benefit analysis to compare the potential for voter fraud with the potential for eligible voter disenfranchisement. He also claimed that he had been unaware until recently that proof of citizenship laws could have a disproportionate impact on people of color. I would invite him to read the case of John Doe v. North Carolina. While a lengthy decision, it makes it clear that it is a major problem with regard to people of color not being able to vote. In light of these findings, we seek additional information, but we also requested that Mr. Newby rescind his unilateral and invalid decision. Mr. Newby, I find your action to be shameful, and I hope you will swiftly rescind it. But this is not the only threat to our right to vote. In 2013, the Supreme Court in Shelby County v. Holder struck down a crucial part of the Voting Rights Act that required some States to seek preclearance from the Department of Justice before changing their election laws. Mr. Norden, your organization, the Brennan Center, has been tracking the voting restriction laws passed since Shelby. In fact, 14 States will have new voting restrictions in place this fall for the first time in a Presidential election, literally stopping American citizens from voting. These include photo ID requirements, which have been shown time and time again to unduly burden young voters, women, the elderly, people with disabilities, low-income voters, and the homeless. Passed almost exclusively by Republican legislatures, these laws have been proven to have racially discriminatory intent. I am almost finished, Mr. Chairman. In July, a Federal appeals court struck down the voter restrictions in North Carolina, finding that they, and I quote, listen to this, ``target African Americans with almost surgical precision'' and, quote, ``were enacted with racially discriminatory intent in violation of the Equal Protection Clause,'' end of quote. We can fix this harmful lapse in our democracy by updating the Voting Rights Act in bills with bipartisan support and have proposed that we do so immediately. However, Republicans in Congress refuse to bring any of these bills to the floor for a vote. It is truly shameful, and as a Nation, we are better than that. I urge my colleagues to move this crucial legislation. The integrity of our democracy is at stake. And, with that, Mr. Chairman, I thank you for your courtesy, and I yield back. Mr. Hurd. I thank the ranking member. And now I would like to recognize the gentlelady from Illinois and my friend, Ms. Kelly, the ranking member of the Subcommittee on Information Technology, for her opening remarks. Ms. Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Last week, after receiving classified briefings on threats to the upcoming election, Senator Dianne Feinstein and Representative Adam Schiff accused Russia of, and I quote, ``making a serious and concerted effort to influence the U.S. election.'' Recently, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper also cited a long history of Russia's efforts to influence elections abroad. The Director said that Russia's apparent efforts to compromise U.S. elections, quote, ``shouldn't come as a big shock to people,'' but attempts to influence the outcome of our election are not just limited to foreign government. According to law enforcement and the FBI, cyber attacks in August against voter registration databases in my State of Illinois and Arizona were most likely criminally motivated, possibly targeting voters' personally identifiable information. To know that my own State suffered this attack is extremely troubling, not only because of the threat of identity theft, but because of what hackers do once they have access to those databases. For example, perhaps they could change a voter's listed party affiliation in a way that affects primary elections, or they perhaps modify voter addresses to invalidate registration. We must address these questions and do absolutely everything we can to defend against future attacks. In today's hearing, we will be addressing the crucial question: How secure is the electoral infrastructure from any cyber attacks, regardless of the source? According to security experts, a massive attack against the infrastructure as a whole is not the biggest cyber vulnerability in our election process. Rather, it is the individual voting machines that pose some of the greatest risk. According to a 2015 report from the Brennan Center for Justice, many voting machines were designed and engineered in the 1990s or early 2000s. These machines were designed before the Internet base of sort of advanced cyber risks that now are all too common in our current threat environment. For example, in 2015, Virginia's Board of Elections decertified a voting system used in 24 percent of precincts after finding that an external party could access the machine's wireless feature to, quote, ``record voting data or inject malicious data.'' But beyond cyber attacks, these machines are also vulnerable to operational failures like crashes and glitches. As one security expert at Rice University put it, and I quote: ``These machines, they barely work in a friendly environment.'' As we examine this upcoming election and beyond, we must consider what sorts of investment we must make to our voting infrastructure. Today's hearing will provide us with an opportunity to learn just how vulnerable our elections might be to hackers and what our local, State, and Federal Government can do to protect our electoral processes. But I must also add that I hope that we have more hearings on the topic of the right to vote and the access of the ballot box. Far too many States across this country have enacted troubling voter suppression laws since the Supreme Court decision in Shelby County v. Holder, and I have been deeply disappointed at the lack of interest across the aisle in addressing this issue. We must repair the damage done to the Voting Rights Act with legislation, and that must be a top priority. To preserve the integrity of our ballot box, we must also protect citizens' access to it. Mr. Chairman, thank you again for holding this important hearing. Mr. Hurd. Thank you. And I will hold the record open for 5 legislative days for any members who would like to submit a written statement. And the chair notes the presence of our colleague Congressman Buddy Carter of Georgia. We appreciate your interest in this topic and welcome your participation today. I ask unanimous consent that Congressman Carter be allowed to fully participate in today's hearing. Without objection, so ordered. We will now recognize our panel of witnesses. I am pleased to welcome Dr. Andy Ozment, Assistant Secretary for Cybersecurity and Communications at the U.S. Department of Homeland Security; Commissioner Thomas Hicks, Chairman of the U.S. Election Assistance Commission; Dr. Andrew Appel, the Eugene Higgins Professor of Computer Science at Princeton University; and Mr. Lawrence Norden, deputy director of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law. I am now pleased to recognize my colleague, the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Carter, to introduce our remaining distinguished witness. Mr. Carter. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is definitely an honor today to welcome the secretary of state from the State of Georgia, my friend Brian Kemp, who preceded me in Georgia's State Senate. And I served in the house while he served in the senate, and then I moved over to the senate to try to clean up the mess that he and Tom Price left. But, nevertheless, we got that done. Brian Kemp was elected the 27th secretary of state of Georgia in January of 2010. He has done an outstanding job in cutting wasteful spending and implementing zero-based budgeting. He currently serves as co-chair of the National Association of Secretaries of State Elections Committee and is a member of the DHS Election Infrastructure Cybersecurity Working Group. He is a native of Athens, Georgia--Go Dogs--and he and his lovely wife Marty have three beautiful daughters. And we are just glad to have him here and proud to have him representing us as our secretary of state in Georgia. Mr. Hurd. Thank you, Mr. Carter. Welcome to you all. And pursuant to committee rules, all witnesses will be sworn in before you testify. So please rise and raise your right hands. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Thank you and please be seated. Let the record reflect the witnesses answered in the affirmative. In order to allow time for discussion, please limit your testimony to 5 minutes, and your entire written statement will be made part of the record. I would now like to recognize Dr. Ozment for his opening remarks. WITNESS STATEMENTS STATEMENT OF ANDY OZMENT Mr. Ozment. Thank you. Chairman Hurd, Ranking Member Kelly, Ranking Member Cummings, members of this committee, thank you for today's opportunity to discuss cybersecurity and our election infrastructure. At the core of our American values is the fundamental right of all citizens to make their voice heard by having their vote counted. Ensuring the integrity of our electoral process is of vital national interest and one of our highest priorities as citizens in a democratic society. Increasingly, some parts of the Nation's election infrastructure leverage information technology for efficiency and convenience. Like other systems, reliance on digital technologies could introduce new cybersecurity risks. However, the dispersed and diverse nature of our election infrastructure provides inherent resilience and presents real challenges to attempts at affecting the integrity of election results. Our election system is run by State and local governments in thousands of jurisdictions across the country. Importantly, State and local officials have already been working, individually and collectively, to reduce risks and ensure the integrity of their elections. Consistent with our longstanding work with State and local governments, we at DHS are partnering with election officials to share information about cybersecurity risks and to provide voluntary resources from the Department upon request. Addressing cybersecurity challenges such as these is not new for our Department. Our National Cybersecurity and Communications Integration Center, or NCCIC, provides support to State and local customers, such as election officials, as part of its daily operations. In August, Secretary Johnson hosted a phone call with election officials from across the country that included representatives from other Federal agencies to discuss the cybersecurity of election infrastructure. The Secretary offered assistance from DHS' NCCIC to assist State and local election officials in securing their systems. The NCCIC provides the same assistance on an ongoing basis to public and private sector partners upon request. The assistance is voluntary and does not entail regulation, binding directives, or any kind of Federal takeover. The DHS role is limited to support only. Through engagements with State and local officials, we are offering three types of assistance: best practices, information sharing, and incident response. In support of best practices, DHS has offered two different types of risk assessments to State and local government officials: First, cyber hygiene scans on Internet-facing systems provide State and local officials with recurring reports that identify any vulnerabilities and provide mitigation recommendations. Second, our cybersecurity experts can go on site to conduct risk and vulnerability assessments. These assessments are more thorough, and DHS provides the customer with a full report of vulnerabilities and recommended mitigations following the testing. DHS will continue to share relevant information on cyber incidents through multiple avenues. For example, DHS has published best practices for securing voter registration databases and addressing potential threats to election systems. More broadly, the NCCIC works with the Multi-State Information Sharing and Analysis Center, or MS-ISAC. The MS-ISAC provides threat and vulnerability information to State and local government officials. It was created by DHS to support State, local, tribal, and territorial governments and is partially grant-funded by DHS. The MS-ISAC has a representative colocated with the NCCIC to enable regular collaboration and access to information and services for State chief information officers. During this election season, DHS' NCCIC is prepared to provide incident response assistance to help State and local officials identify and remediate any possible cyber incidents. In the case of an attempted compromise affecting election infrastructure, the NCCIC will share technical information with other States, to assist their ability to defend their own systems from similar malicious activity. Moving forward, we must recognize that the nature of risk facing our electoral infrastructure will continue to evolve. DHS has, therefore, established an experts group comprised of academics, independent researchers, and Federal partners. This group will continually evaluate emerging risks and ensure that State and local officials have the information and assistance needed to secure the infrastructure in their jurisdiction. Before closing, I want to reiterate that we have confidence in the overall integrity of our electoral system, because our voting infrastructure is fundamentally resilient. It is diverse, subject to local control, and has many checks and balances built in. As the risk environment evolves, the Department will continue to support State and local partners by providing information, assistance with best practices, and tools upon request. Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I look forward to any questions. [Prepared statement of Mr. Ozment follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Hurd. Thank you, Dr. Ozment. Mr. Hicks, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your opening remarks. STATEMENT OF THOMAS HICKS Mr. Hicks. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, and members of the Subcommittee on Information Technology and Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. My name is Thomas Hicks, and I am Chairman of the United States Election Assistance Commission, or EAC. The EAC is a four-member bipartisan commission. The EAC's mission is to guide, assist, and direct the effective administration of Federal elections, through funding, innovation, guidance, and information. The EAC was charged with three duties: one, develop and administer a voting machine testing and certification program; two, develop and administer a national clearinghouse for election administration information; and three, distribute HAVA grants to States to allow them to purchase new, more secure voting machines and systems. Since our inception, the EAC has carried its charge. Forty- seven of 50 States use EAC's voluntary voting machine testing and certification program in part or in whole. We produce the most comprehensive election administration survey in the country, and we produce volumes of materials designed to help election administrators run their elections more effectively and efficiently. Among other things, these materials help the States understand and react to the current cybersecurity threats against their voting systems. State and local election officials run the elections, and we support them. I am here today to testify on three items: First and foremost, our elections are secure. The American election administration system inherently protects our elections and its vast size and complexity. Voters should have confidence that their voices will be counted accurately when they cast them. Second, there may be headlines related to cyber attacks and data breaches, but these headlines are not representative of our voting machines. Unlike the systems in the headlines, our voting machines are not connected to the Internet. Third, the EAC works every day to help ensure the security of our elections. First, the security that is inherent in our election system because our system is vast and complex. Since States and territories run elections, the American election administration system is actually compiled of more than 50 administrative systems. Each State has developed its own processes for conducting Federal, State and local elections. These States and territories are made up of thousands of election jurisdictions. Often, these jurisdictions operate autonomously but report to the States. What is important to identify in today's hearing is that there is no single or uniform national election administration system that manages elections. This means that there is no national system that a hacker or bad actor can infiltrate to affect the American elections as a whole. The complexity of our American election assistance system both deters attacks and allows election officials to ensure the integrity of the election in the event of an attack. The complexity deters potential attackers from attempting to access American elections, because the number of resources that one would need to complete such an attack may be prohibitively high. There are thousands of individuals operating, often autonomously. A bad actor would have to figure out how to successfully access a significant portion of these parts. Additionally and perhaps most importantly, voting machines are not connected to the Internet. So a bad actor would have to access these systems in person. The amount of resources required to carry out this attack would be immense. That is not to say that no one will ever try to access American elections. Recent events in Arizona and Illinois remind us that this is not true. The breaches in Arizona and Illinois exemplify another strength in our election system. Because the State administers its own elections, the breaches in these States did not compromise the system in other States. Instead of causing a national crisis, the breaches notified election officials across the country that they should be on high alert. With this new information, election officials across the country started administrating system security checks and doublechecked in their places and procedures. The EAC took action as well. Upon learning of these attacks, we sent a security system, testing guides, and other voting machine security information to election officials. At the EAC, we have been focused on election security since our inception as an agency, and we reacted quickly, and we realize that the current events demand our help. Both our voluntary voting system guidelines and our best practices focus is on ensuring the security of our elections. This year, we have also created a new initiative to help election administrators better administer their elections this fall. It's called Be Ready 16. Through Be Ready 16, we distributed voting training material, current information, and guides to election officials throughout the country. We also integrated topics, such as election security, into our public meetings and roundtables. We are proud of our Be Ready 16, but it is just one example of many ways we support election officials. In conclusion, I am here to communicate one message. That message is that our elections are secure. They are secure because the American election administration system inherently protects them. There are threats to our elections, but the voters have confidence that their votes will be counted accurately and recorded accurately when they cast them. I thank you for your time, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, and other members of this committee, and I look forward to your questions. [Prepared statement of Mr. Hicks follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Hurd. Thank you, Mr. Hicks. Secretary Kemp, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your opening remarks. STATEMENT OF BRIAN P. KEMP Mr. Kemp. Good afternoon. And I want to thank Representative Carter for that fine introduction, and thank the committee and Chairman Hurd for inviting me to discuss election security, the safeguards on our elections, and then my perspective as the top elections official in Georgia, the eighth largest State in the Union. As Georgia's secretary of state, I currently serve as co- chair of the National Association of Secretaries of State Elections Committee. And within the last 3 weeks, I have agreed to serve on the Department of Homeland Security's elections infrastructure cyber working group organized by Secretary Jeh Johnson. Recent events, including the hack of the DNC database as well as successful cyber attacks against voter registration databases in Arizona and Illinois, have rightfully caused great alarm among the public as well as elections officials. However, it is imperative that we as a Nation respond the correct way to these attacks. Administering elections is a great but unique responsibility. The foundation of our republic rests on the trust that Americans have in the way that we elect representatives in our government. If that trust is eroded, our enemies know that they will create fissures in the bedrock of American democracy. We cannot allow this to happen. The D.C. response to these attacks has been to take steps toward federalizing aspects of elections, election systems, and standardizing security measures. There is a better way to face these attacks and future potential threats than what has currently been proposed by DHS with designating election systems critical infrastructure. In discussing election security, it is important to understand the difference between the components of an election. The system is comprised of campaign systems, registration and reporting systems, as well as voting systems. Campaign systems are databases not held by the States, such as databases held by national parties. Attacks on these systems don't disrupt activities in the State's jurisdictions, although they can cause harm, as recently seen by the attack on the DNC. Registration and reporting systems are held by the States, but they do not impact the true canvass results in an election. These systems manage the voter registration rolls and report unofficial results on election night. Although these systems are more prone to attack than the voting system, because many are Web-based platforms, attacks on these systems cannot change the votes that are cast. These systems are also tested regularly, have redundancies, failsafes, and backups. Finally, voting systems are the actual equipment used on election day. They are nonnetwork pieces of hardware that do not connect to the Internet. They are tested by vendors, by States, and by the EAC. Even before they are deployed, they are tested again by local technicians to ensure their security and accuracy. In looking toward November, it is important for us to address the types of threats that may come against the Nation's elections. I view these threats in three different categories: First, there are threats that undermine the confidence in the outcome of the election. This has already started among conspiracy theorists, campaigns, and members of the media. Senator Feinstein was mentioned earlier about Russia's influence. This narrative will likely continue through canvassing and beyond. Although elections officials must be cognizant of these narratives and respond to them as needed, this threat cannot create actual harm to the system or the results of the election. Second, there are threats that disrupt elections. These threats could be cyber attacks on Web-based systems, but they more commonly occur with threats of physical violence, verbal altercations, or misinformation distributed at polling locations. In my view, this is far more likely to occur than a coordinated hacking of each individual voting unit in the United States. This type of threat is also not only more probable to occur but also would have a greater chilling effect on election participation. The third type of threat is altering the outcome of the election. This requires an attack on the voting system itself. However, the voting system is layered with combinations of physical and technical security to address these concerns. The voting system is the most secure system in the election space. It is not networked. It's not on the Internet. And it's tested many times in many different ways as well as having overlapping physical security features to defeat cyber attacks as well as physical attacks. This threat would require far too much coordination, planning, and ability to physically manipulate thousands of machines at thousands of locations across the United States. Although it is possible, it is not probable, and there is no evidence it has ever occurred in a U.S. election. As I stated moments ago, Secretary Johnson responded to this threat of cyber attack when he publicly began considering designating the election system critical infrastructure. This, as you can be made aware or you could suggest, caught many elections officials by surprise, and rightfully so. The suggestion from the agency, completely regarding--unfamiliar with the election space raised the level of public concern beyond what was necessary. This decision has been criticized by elections officials and cybersecurity experts alike and really addresses one of my main concerns and is why I am so glad to be here today to answer your questions as we proceed. Thank you. [Prepared statement of Mr. Kemp follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Hurd. Thank you, Secretary Kemp. Votes have been called, and what we'll do is we'll get to Dr. Appel's, get through your opening statement, and then we will adjourn for votes and then come back and finish with Mr. Norden and the questions. So, Dr. Appel, you are recognized for 5 minutes. STATEMENT OF ANDREW W. APPEL Mr. Appel. My name is Andrew Appel. I am professor of computer science at Princeton University. In this testimony, I don't represent my employer. I am here to give my own professional opinions as a scientist but also as an American citizen who cares deeply about protecting our democracy. My research is in software verification, computer security, technology policy and election machinery. As I will explain, I strongly recommend that, at a minimum, the Congress seek to ensure the elimination of direct-recording electronic voting machines, sometimes called touchscreen machines, immediately after this November's election and that the Congress require that all elections be subject to sensible auditing after every election to ensure that systems are functioning properly and to prove to the American people that their votes are counted as cast. There are cybersecurity issues in all parts of our election system: before the election, voter registration databases; during the election, voting machines; after the election, vote- tabulation/canvassing/precinct-aggregation computers. In my opening statement, I will focus on voting machines. The other topics are addressed in a recent report I have coauthored entitled ``10 Things Election Officials Can Do to Help Secure and Inspire Confidence in This Fall's Elections.'' In the U.S., we use two kinds primarily of voting machines: optical scanners that count paper ballots and touchscreen voting machines, also called direct-recording electronic. Each voting machine is a computer running a computer program. Whether that computer counts the votes accurately or makes mistakes or cheats by shifting votes from one candidate to another depends on what software is installed in the computer. We all use computers, and we've all had occasion to install new software. Sometimes it's an app we purchase and install on purpose. Sometimes it's a software upgrade sent by the company that made our operating system. Installing new software in a voting machine is not really much different from installing new software in any other kind of computer. Installing new software is how you hack a voting machine to cheat. In 2009, in the courtroom of the Superior Court of New Jersey, I demonstrated how to hack a voting machine. I wrote a vote-stealing computer program that shifts votes from one candidate to another. Installing that vote-stealing program in a voting machine takes 7 minutes per machine with a screwdriver. I did this in a secure facility, and I am confident my program has not leaked out to affect real elections. But, really, the software I built was not rocket science. Any computer programmer could write the same code. Once it's installed, it could steal elections without detection for years to come. Voting machines are often delivered to polling places several days before the election, to elementary schools, churches, firehouses. In these locations, anyone could gain access to a voting machine for 10 minutes. Between elections, the machines are routinely opened up for maintenance by county employees or private contractors. Let's assume they have the utmost integrity, but still in the U.S. we try to run our elections so that we can trust the election results without relying on any one individual. Other computer scientists have demonstrated similar hacks on many models of machine. This is not just one glitch in one manufacturer's machine; it's the very nature of computers. So how can we trust our elections when it's so easy to make the computers cheat? Forty States already know the answer. Vote on optical scan paper ballots. The voter fills in the bubble next to the name of their preferred candidate, then takes this paper ballot to the scanner right there in the precinct and feeds it in. That opscan voting machine has a computer in it, and we can't 100 percent prevent that computer from being hacked, but that very paper ballot marked by the voter drops into a sealed ballot box under the opscan machine. Those ballots can be recounted by hand in a way we can trust. Unfortunately, there's still about 10 States that primarily use paperless touchscreen voting computers. There's no paper ballot to recount. After the voter touches the screen, we have to rely on the computer; that is, we have to rely on whatever program is installed in the computer that day to print out the true totals when the polls close. So what must we do? In the near term, we must not connect the voting machines to the Internet. The same goes for those computers used to prepare the electronic ballot definition files before each election that are used to program the voting machines; that is, we must not connect the voting machines, even indirectly, to the Internet. Many able and competent election administrators already follow this best practice. I hope that all 9,000 or 10,000 counties and States that run elections follow this practice and other security best practices, but it's hard to tell whether they do consistently. These and other best practices can help protect against hacking of voting machines by people in other countries through the Internet, but they can't protect us from mistakes, software bugs, miscalibration, insider hacking, or against local criminals with access to the machines before or after elections. So what we must do as soon as possible after November is to adopt nationwide what 40 States have already done, paper ballots marked by the voter, countable by computer, but recountable by hand. In 2000, we saw what a disastrously unreliable technology those punch-card ballots were. So, in 2002, the Congress outlawed punch-card ballots, and that was very appropriate. I strongly recommend that the Congress seek to ensure the elimination of paperless touchscreen voting machines immediately after this November's election. [Prepared statement of Mr. Appel follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Hurd. Thank you, Dr. Appel. The committee stands in recess until immediately following votes. [Recess.] Mr. Hurd. The Subcommittee on Information Technology will come to order. Thank you all for the indulgence. I think we have one more opening remark, and then we'll get to the question and answer. Mr. Norden, bring us back in. You're recognized for 5 minutes for your opening statement. STATEMENT OF LAWRENCE NORDEN Mr. Norden. Thank you, Chairman Hurd, Ranking Member Kelly, and members of the subcommittee, for inviting me to testify today. For those who don't know, the Brennan Center at NYU Law School is a think tank and public advocacy group, a nonprofit, that works on issues of democracy and justice. And I have led the Brennan Center's work on election technology and security for over a decade. There are two points I want to convey today. The first is that real threats to our election integrity needs to be treated with the utmost seriousness. Among other things, that means that we need to distinguish between genuine threats and sensationalistic rhetoric. Second, the biggest danger, I believe, to the integrity of our election this November are attempts to undermine public confidence in the election. Specifically, as we have heard from others, attempted attacks against voting machines are highly unlikely to have widespread impact on vote totals this November. However, attacks or malfunctions that could undermine public confidence are much easier. I want to echo what some of the other witnesses said today. It's important when we talk, when we have public discussions about election systems and security that we distinguish between the different kinds of systems that there are. Campaign email servers are obviously very different than voter registration databases, which are very different than voting machines. On the topic of voter registration databases, Mr. Ozment and Secretary Kemp I think did a very good job talking about the kinds of steps that are being taken to make them secure. The good news is, when it comes to the integrity of our elections, there are relatively straightforward steps to ensure that any attack or hack against voter registration databases should not prevent people from voting. Most importantly, regular backups of these systems should allow us to reconstruct lists, if--and I should emphasize this has not happened anywhere as far as I know--if data is changed on those registration databases. And as far as I know, every State does this. On the issue of voting machines, a lot of ground has already been covered about why they are different than registration databases; that voting machines should never be connected to the Internet, that we have a decentralized system with 10,000 election jurisdictions using different machines, having different rules. And I agree with all that. The one thing I would add is, that was not noted, is the vast majority of people this November will vote either on a paper ballot that is read by a scanner or will vote on a machine that has a paper trail that they can review, and by my estimates about 80 percent of Americans will do so. And that can serve as an important deterrent and should provide voters with confidence that there is a check to ensure that their votes have been accurately recorded. These facts and others that are detailed in my testimony and that others have mentioned make it highly unlikely that there could be a successful widespread attack to change vote totals. Having said this, I want to talk about the problem of aging equipment in the United States. I do believe that if this is not addressed, it can do real damage to voter confidence and, therefore, the integrity of our elections. And this is particularly true now when there are discussions of Russian hacks and rigged elections so much in the public discourse. In 2015, I oversaw a yearlong study that looked at this. We found that 42 States are using voting machines that are over a decade old this November, and that's perilously close to the end of projected lifespans for these machines, particularly those designed and engineered in the 1990s. I want to be clear that that's a rather blunt tool to measure when systems need to be replaced. I'm not saying that every machine, when it reaches 10 years old or 15 years old, is suddenly going to stop working. Before I came into this hearing today, I saw a 1965 Ford Mustang running, and it looked like it was running perfectly; and obviously the kind of maintenance and investment that is put into machinery can allow it to work much longer. And Georgia is a great example of this. They have a project with Kennesaw State where they really invest in their equipment, and they're using machines that most other jurisdictions have had to replace, because they put that investment into them. But the interviews that we conducted with election officials in all 50 States make it clear that there are real challenges and they're growing with aging equipment. Failures of systems during voting lead to long lines and lost votes. Outdated hardware and software means that election officials struggle to find replacement parts. We talked to a number of officials who have to go to Ebay to find critical parts, like dot matrix printer ribbons, decades-old storage devices, analog modems. And more than one official described their system as essentially jerry-rigged to hold it together. And, of course, these older systems that I'm talking about did not go through the kind of more rigorous Federal certification system that we have now for security, and as Dr. Appel noted, are disproportionately paperless. Replacing this equipment is a major issue. In 32 States, we spoke to election officials who said they wanted to replace their equipment before the next Presidential election of 2020. In 21 States, election officials told us they didn't know where they would get their money. More recently, we interviewed about 250 local election officials, and about a clear majority said they either needed to or should replace their equipment before 2020, and 80 percent of those said that they didn't know where they would get the money for that. So I will close on that point. Thank you. [Prepared statement of Mr. Norden follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Hurd. Thank you, Mr. Norden. And I'm going to recognize myself now for 5 minutes of questions. And my first question is actually for all five of you gentlemen, and we'll start with you, Mr. Norden, and go down the line. And first off, I appreciate you all's written testimony. I appreciate you all's oral testimony as well. We are in such an important time and, you know, there is decades' worth of experience sitting at this table looking at this important issue, and I think you give the American people some comfort. And so my first question, I think this is a yes or no question to all of you all. On 8 November, can a cyber attack change the outcome of our national elections? Mr. Norden. Mr. Norden. I'm confident that that will not be the case. Mr. Hurd. Dr. Appel? Mr. Appel. I think it's---- Mr. Hurd. Secretary Kemp? Mr. Kemp. No. Mr. Hurd. Mr. Hicks? Mr. Hicks. No. Mr. Hurd. Dr. Ozment? Mr. Ozment. No. Mr. Hurd. Excellent. Dr. Appel, Mr. Appel, excuse me, when you did your research in hacking the equipment, that was done in a controlled environment. Is that correct? Mr. Appel. It was done inside the State Police headquarters. Mr. Hurd. Was it one machine or were you able to access multiple machines? Mr. Appel. We had two machines per study. Mr. Hurd. Were they connected or did you have to access them each individually? Mr. Appel. These machines don't connect to any network. Mr. Hurd. So none of the machines connect to each other. Is that correct? Mr. Appel. The kind of machine that I hacked that we use in New Jersey do not connect to any network. Mr. Hurd. And they did not connect to any network, so that means they're not facing the Internet as well? Mr. Appel. That's right. In particular, the kinds of machines that we use in New Jersey, and the same machines are used in Louisiana, I don't know of any practical way to hack them through any kind of network. The only way I know that they can be hacked is by someone with physical access to them. Mr. Hurd. So there's no practical way to hack these voting machines unless you have physical access. And then if you have physical access, you have to have physical access to each box because none of the boxes are actually connected, nor are they connected to the Internet? Mr. Appel. That's true for many kinds of touch screen voting machines, but not for all kinds that are in use today. Mr. Hurd. And, Secretary Kemp, I just want to clarify that. And I guess this question to you as your role as the vice chairman of the Association of Secretaries of State. There are no voting systems that connect to the Internet, correct? Mr. Kemp. Well, Commissioner Hicks might can back me up on this, but I know our systems are not. I wouldn't want to speak for every State in the country, but I would feel very confident in saying the vast majority, probably all are not connected to the Internet. Mr. Hurd. Mr. Hicks, do you have any opinions on that. Mr. Hicks. From what we've determined, no voting machines are connected to the Internet. Mr. Hurd. So let's take one municipality, one voting district. They probably have how many machines? Is there an average number, you know, 5 to 10, 5 to 25, in one voting location? Let's take a voting location. Mr. Kemp. Well, I think in Georgia, it would depend on the jurisdiction. Certainly, in a precinct in Fulton County you could have, you know, I would say, over 100 machines. In a smaller, rural county, you may have 5 to 10. Mr. Hurd. And so, Mr. Appel, in that scenario, an attacker would actually have to have access to all 100 in the one county in order to manipulate the records? Mr. Appel. In Georgia, that's not the case. The machines used in Georgia have been demonstrated to be hackable through a virus that's carried on ballot definition cartridges, very much like the Stuxnet virus was inserted into nuclear centrifuges in Iran. Mr. Hurd. But in that auditing system, in the auditing of these machines, we look at that. Is that correct? Mr. Appel. I'm sorry. Can you repeat the question? Mr. Hurd. So in those machines that have that vulnerability in the auditing process, isn't that scanned? Don't we scan for that? Mr. Appel. It's difficult to scan for that vulnerability in the sense of if you ask a machine to report what software is loaded in it, if it's fraudulent software, it will lie. So the AccuVote TS machines used in Georgia and in a few counties in other States are particularly vulnerable to this kind of virus that can be carried to the machines even if the criminal attacker doesn't touch the machines or is not even in the same State with the machines. The touch screen voting machines used in most other States, I don't know of any such way to hack them through a virus carried on cartridges. Mr. Hurd. Dr. Ozment, do you have any opinions on that? And when you provide best practices and information sharing to folks that request your assistance, is this the type of vulnerability that you all notify folks of? Mr. Ozment. You know, I think it's a good opportunity for me to elaborate on my answer. First, we have to always be vigilant. In the field of cybersecurity, we can never relax. We have no indication that adversaries are planning cyber operations against U.S. election infrastructure that would change the outcome of the election in November. And we have overall confidence in the system. You know, individual parts of the election system are more or less vulnerable. You can never eliminate all vulnerabilities, but the overlapping layers of the system are what give us confidence, the fact that there is a wide variety of machines in use, a wide variety of procedures across jurisdictions, many checks and balances, physical controls, and the devices are not connected to the Internet. So I cannot speak to the security of an individual device. What I can speak to is that, overall, we view the security of the overall system as robust. We can never relax obviously, and that's one reason that we are offering voluntary assistance to State and local governments. Mr. Hurd. Thank you, gentlemen. Now I'd like to recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. Lieu, for 5 minutes of questions. Mr. Lieu. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Earlier this year, Donald Trump asked Russia to hack an American citizen. We know from later media reports that Russia has hacked the Democratic National Committee, as well as the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, and other entities for the purpose of influencing American elections. And my question for you, Dr. Ozment, is what steps is DHS taking to try to prevent Russia or other foreign entities from influencing the American election this November? Mr. Ozment. Thank you. Without speaking as to the source of the intrusions into the DNC and DCCC, I do want to talk about some of what we're offering to State and local government officials. First, we're offering them best practices. For example, we recently published a document on best practices for securing voter registration systems. We're also offering to scan their Internet-connected systems. So voter registration systems primarily, possibly tabulation for results reporting, and we're offering to scan these regularly for any vulnerabilities. And we will provide a weekly report on any vulnerabilities we detect and recommendations for mitigating them. We call that cyber hygiene scanning. We're also offering to do more in-depth risk and vulnerability assessments. That would require us to send people onsite to do a much more detailed assessment of systems. We have local field-deployed personnel called cybersecurity advisers and protective security advisers. These individuals are available to provide assistance and advice to State and local governments. And then finally, we've offered physical and protective security tools, training, and resources. All of those are available to State and local government officials. And then, of course, more broadly, we have the multistate ISAC, an entity that we have funded for well over a decade to help support State and local governments in their cybersecurity practices. Mr. Lieu. Thank you. Commissioner Hicks, thank you for your testimony. My understanding, from the main thrust of your testimony, is that because we've got 50 States, thousands of different jurisdictions, the American elections system is complex, diverse, and robust, because it's really hard to hack all of that. My view is they don't have to hack 50 States. In a close Presidential election, they just need to hack one swing State, or maybe one or two, or maybe just a few counties in one swing State. So I do sort of challenge your premise that just because we've got 50 States, somehow we are robust. And my question is, is there a focus on these swing States to make sure that in States that potentially are close, that we do everything we can to make sure that the integrity of the elections are protected? Mr. Hicks. Thank you for that question, Congressman. The EAC and the rest of the election community is focused on all the States, not just the swing States, because we feel that all the votes are valuable in that sort of realm. The basic premise of this is that if someone goes into a polling place and attempts to influence the election, that's still a Federal crime, and they should be prosecuted. So we're basically asking for people to serve as poll workers so they can be vigilant and serve as people who are on the front lines of seeing these sorts of things. But to answer your question, you would still need a tremendous amount of people to go into any polling place to try to influence an election that way, even if it could be done, and we don't believe that it can be done. Mr. Lieu. Thank you. As a recovering computer science major, I keep in mind that folks hacked computers well before the existence of the Internet, and we've had troubling reports of how these voting machines can be hacked quite easily. And, Mr. Appel, you, yourself, hacked a voting machine. Are you aware of Symantec also hacking voting machines? Mr. Appel. Who? Mr. Lieu. Symantec Corporation. Mr. Appel. No. Mr. Lieu. For research purposes. Mr. Appel. No, but---- Mr. Lieu. Okay. Then let me just put this in for the record so people understand. So there was a Bloomberg article dated September 19 saying, ``States Ask Feds for Cybersecurity Scans Following Election Hacking Threats.'' I'm just going to read this. ``In a recent simulation, Symantec Corporation said its workers were able to easily hack into an electronic voting machine. It was possible to switch votes as well as change the volume of data, said Samir Kapuria, senior vice president and general manager of Symantec's cybersecurity group.'' And, Mr. Chair, if I could enter this into the record. Mr. Hurd. Without objection, so moved. Mr. Lieu. Can you explain how you hacked the machine and if there's any reason why we would want a machine with no paper ballots? Wouldn't we always want a backup in case something was hacked? Mr. Appel. Yes. I'll be happy to explain. The machine that I hacked is called the Sequoia AVC Advantage. It's now called the Dominion AVC Advantage. It's in use in almost all of New Jersey and in all of Louisiana and a few counties of Pennsylvania and other States. The computer program that counts the votes on this machine is in a read-only memory that's mounted in a socket on the motherboard. To hack this machine, you have to remove that memory chip from its socket and install a memory chip on which you've prepared a cheating program. The cheating program that I prepared has an extra 100 lines of code basically that when the polls are about to close, it goes in there and changes some votes stored in the machine. And there is an electronic log of all votes cast, so it changes the log too. So to install that, the attacker doesn't need to be a computer scientist. The attacker just needs to have a bunch of copies of this memory chip with the program on it. And for each voting machine, unscrew 10 screws to remove the panel that covers the motherboard, pry out the ROM chip containing the legitimate program, and install the ROM chip containing the fraudulent program. Other kinds of voting machines store their computer program that counts the votes in flash memory, and this can be updated under the control of whatever computer program happens to be running in the voting machine. These voting machines, typically the generation developed in the 1990s and after, can be hacked without actually physically changing any hardware in the machine just by installing a software upgrade memory card in the same slot that one would normally install the ballot definition. And this particular attack was demonstrated by my colleague at Princeton, Professor Felten, in about 2007, working with two of his graduate students. But it's not just us at Princeton. There are many kinds of voting machines, and the same kinds of hacks are applicable to all voting machines and have been demonstrated at several other universities, including the University of Connecticut, Johns Hopkins, Michigan, and others. Mr. Lieu. Thank you. Mr. Hicks. Congressman, can I just add a little bit to this? One of the things I want to make sure that it's clear and when the Help America Vote Act came about, is that one of the reasons that the paper trail is not universal is that it doesn't allow for people with disabilities to basically be able to verify their vote and handle that paper. So someone who has a dexterity disability is not able to use that. But there are machines that allow for verification of ballots and are able to be used by those with disabilities. So if Congress decides in the next session to look at reforming the Help America Vote Act, I would really encourage to make sure that the folks with disabilities are not left behind with the paper trail issue. Mr. Lieu. Can I just briefly respond? You know, we launched a rocket, delivered payload to space station that landed on a barge. They've designed voting machines that actually you can have both a paper ballot and some sort of electronic input and have both. So it's not like it can't be done, and my understanding is L.A. County is about to do that. So my hope is that we don't have any more machines without paper ballots. Thank you. Mr. Hurd. Thank you. I'd now like to recognize Congresswoman Kelly for her line of questions. Ms. Kelly. Thank you so much. I mentioned in my opening statement about hackers attacking the voter registration databases in Illinois and Arizona. So I'd like to take a moment to understand what these attacks are and what they are not. Dr. Ozment, was the cyber attack on the voting machines or was it on voter registration databases? Mr. Ozment. Thank you, Representative. The cyber attacks that you're referring to in Arizona and Illinois were attacks on voter registration systems, and they seem to have been intended to just copy the data on those systems, possibly for the purposes of selling personal information. So we have not seen intrusions intended to in any way impact individuals' votes in actual voting. Ms. Kelly. Why are these more vulnerable than the actual machines? Mr. Ozment. Voter registration systems are more commonly connected to the Internet, in part to ease that registration process, and so because they are connected to the Internet, they are obviously more susceptible to cyber intrusions. Ms. Kelly. And it seems like all of you in various answers are saying that it would be difficult for a hacker to succeed in accessing the U.S. election system and rigging the results in an undetected way, that you all seem to feel like that. Is that correct? Mr. Ozment. That's correct. Because of the different layers of security in the system, even though individual parts of the system may be vulnerable, we overall have confidence in the system. Ms. Kelly. And what is DHS doing to help States secure these databases? Mr. Ozment. We recently released a best practices document focusing particularly on voter registration systems to help States secure those systems. Also, our cyber hygiene vulnerability scanning that we offer to States will be particularly helpful for those systems because many of them are Internet connected. So we have a whole host of resources available to State governments that are applicable both to their voter registration systems and to other systems, even systems outside of the voting process. Ms. Kelly. And is it correct there are at least 40 States with the network defense device similar to the Einstein censor used by Federal agencies? Mr. Ozment. The majority of States--I don't know the exact number--absolutely take advantage of a service that we offer through the MS-ISAC, which provides network protection for those States. Ms. Kelly. And is it at the same protection level as the Federal? Is the State as good as the Federal? Mr. Ozment. You know, it's a different capability than the Federal system, just suited to the networks that State and local governments offer. There's one key difference. One of the Federal systems can take advantage of classified information that is not currently available through the multistate ISAC for State and local governments. We have made that available in a different way for State and local governments. But what I can say is overall we have made all of those protections available to State and local governments through one mechanism or another. Ms. Kelly. And, Mr. Hicks, what is your agency doing to help States secure their election systems? Mr. Hicks. If we're talking about voter registration systems, one of the things that I would like to include in the record is the EAC has a checklist for securing voter registration data, and that lists out a number of things, basically, from access control to auditability to making sure that we document everything and everyone who has access to that system. And I would like to make that available for the record. Mr. Hurd. Without objection, so moved. Ms. Kelly. And, Mr. Norden, can you briefly describe how voting machines are vulnerable and how widespread the problem is? Mr. Norden. Yeah. Well, I would echo the comments that were already made about the fact that because voting machines aren't on the Internet, that certainly is an important distinction to be made between machines that we're voting on on election day and things like a registration database, which is generally connected to the Internet. In terms of vulnerabilities, again I would say my concern mostly is about, for voting machines, is mostly about the fact that this equipment around the country is getting very old, and as the equipment gets older, we are more likely to see failures. We see things. And, again, I am particularly worried about this in the age of social media. We saw this a little bit in 2012, but with touch screen machines, there are often, as machines age, more calibration problems. In Virginia, there was an instance where the glue between the screen and the machine itself was just degrading, and as a result, the kind of thing that happens is somebody--I'm sure you've seen the videos of this before-- somebody selects one candidate, another candidate shows up. I think that's not very good for voter confidence. And when that's posted on YouTube, as it inevitably is, the more and more that we see of these things, again, especially in the context of hearing about hacks to voting systems, that can be a very dangerous thing. And that machine has to get taken out of service. You get long lines. There was a study from researchers at Harvard and MIT that estimated between 500,000 and 700,000 people were not able to vote in 2012 because of long lines. I think that's a huge risk to the integrity of our elections. Ms. Kelly. This might just be a guess on your part, but how--or if anybody else knows--how old are the oldest machines that are still being used? Mr. Norden. They're probably among the oldest in New Jersey. I would say, actually, ironically, I think some of the oldest machines probably have less of a need of replacement than some of the newer systems that we bought, because systems particularly bought just after the Help America Vote Act was passed that were designed in the '90s are essentially laptops from the 1990s, and those were not built to last much longer than 10 or 15 years. Ms. Kelly. Dr. Appel, anything to add? Mr. Appel. Yeah. I think some of the oldest electronic voting machines in use in this country date from the late 1980s. Some of those machines are still reliable in the sense of not breaking down. My concern with the machines is more, you know, can they be hackable without a paper trail that could let you recover the correct result of the election? Mr. Hicks. Congresswoman, one of the things that the EAC is doing now is we're working on our next iteration of our voluntary voting system guidelines. And so these guidelines will be an update since the last ones, the last full ones that were done, which were done before the iPhone was invented. So we want to make sure that we incorporate the new technologies that are here today in looking towards tomorrow. So we're asking for anyone to join our public working groups to give their input to make sure that the next standards that we do are basically the best standards we put out. Mr. Kemp. I would just add, I know we've been kind of singled out with our voting equipment being fairly old, early 2000s, but I would just remind the Representatives that this isn't equipment that we're using every day like you use your phone or your laptop or your desktop. This is equipment that's used two or three, maybe four times a year. We have policies and procedures in the State where the counties have certain ways that they have to care for the equipment, and they have held up well. So I think it's just important to realize that as well. Even though the technology may be old, it doesn't mean it's bad, and the equipment is wearing well. We actually do an assessment after every election, the Center for Elections at Kennesaw State does. We have a less than 1 percent failure rate on our elections equipment. So, you know, if that changes, that will certainly raise a red flag to us, but right now we have not seen that. Ms. Kelly. We have made it a point--I'll give him the credit--of not just having hearings to have hearings. And we always ask how can Congress help make things better. But where do you think--and any of you can answer this--where should the priority be in investing in our election systems to make sure they're secure and the public does have the confidence, and how can Congress help? Mr. Hicks. I spent 11 years as a staffer here on the hill and I know the difficulty that Members face in terms of making sure that things are done correctly, but also having a financial responsibility to that. I think that my role now at the EAC is one to give Congress as best advice as I can to move things forward. And so, you know, in my own opinion, I'm looking at voting machines like a fire truck. Fire trucks are still going to be out there. They need to be used. They need to be--you know, if there's a fire, they're going to have to be used. But until a new fire truck can be purchased, you have to use that old one. And so what can you do? And so what we're doing at the EAC is making sure that we give the best guidance in terms of managing those things. So on our Web site we have 10 things to do on managing aging voting equipment. And so in the future, I would say that if Congress wants to look at this to look at how much will it cost to replace these machines if we're going to do that, but also to look at other aspects of it. To say, you know, do we want to start talking about this third rail of, you know, using our own devices to cast ballots and things like that. But also we want to make sure that we look at military and overseas voters as well because they don't have these same options of using the equipment that we have here, and looking at disability groups, but also looking at our aging population as well. So there's a lot of things, and I would be happy to come up here any time to discuss any of those topics. Ms. Kelly. Anything? Mr. Kemp. Well, I think--that's a really good question, by the way, and I think there's a couple of things that come to mind for me. I would encourage Congress to let the States remain flexible in what systems that they're using. I think there's great value in that. I know the National Conference of State Legislatures agree with that assessment as well. But I would also urge you to work with the National Association of Secretaries of State. I know Commissioner Hicks and his colleagues have been to many of our meetings, winter meetings that we have in D.C., and I think I can pretty much 100 percent speak on behalf of the organization that we'd love to have any Member of Congress or even do maybe a session during that winter meeting where you can hear a different perspective, because it is different. I mean, one size does not fit all in elections. What we're doing in Georgia is going to differ greatly from what, you know, Jim Condos may be doing in Vermont, or what's going on in California, and we would welcome and encourage that. Ms. Kelly. I used to be a State rep, and I know Jesse White really well. Mr. Hurd. Thank you. And the chair notes the presence of our colleague, Congressman Jody Hice, from Georgia. We appreciate your interest in this topic and welcome your participation today. And I ask unanimous consent that Congressman Hice be allowed to fully participate in today's hearing. Without objection, so ordered. And, Mr. Hicks, I know you have a time deadline, but I think we should be done by that deadline, but I'd like to now recognize Congressman Hice for 5 minutes. Mr. Hice. Thank you very much, Chairman. I appreciate you letting me be a part of this. And, Secretary Kemp, I just want to say hello to you. It's always great to have some Georgians up here, and it's an honor to have you, sir. Thank you for participating. And all our witnesses today, thank you for being here. Secretary Kemp, let me just go with you. The broader question here, of course, that we are all concerned about and well should be is that of voter fraud, regardless of how it shows its face. Can you explain some of the steps that Georgia has taken in particular to prevent voter fraud across the board? Mr. Kemp. Well, thank you, Congressman. It's great to see you as well as Representative Carter. We have really done a lot. I know I've spoken a lot about our voting system not being connected to the Internet. We have got all kind of policies and procedures about how we tie the number of votes on a specific machine that is counted with our paper tape inside the machine back to the signed voter verification of the voter when they come in the precinct. So I want to assure people that there is a way that we can tie that down. But we've also seen, and it hasn't really been talked a lot about here today, but, you know, there's fraud that happens with paper ballots as well. We've seen it in many local jurisdictions with absentee ballots. We've had elections that have been overturned because of things of that nature, people manipulating the paper absentee ballot process in Georgia, especially in a local election, a municipal election, where, you know, literally 5 to 10 votes could sway an election. But one of the things that we've done in Georgia, I think, besides having really good State laws and State election board rules on how the counties should handle the statewide voting system and training in that regard to protect the integrity of the election, we've also, as Commissioner Hicks said earlier today, we've asked for the public's help, not only as poll workers or poll watchers, but we've got a stop voter fraud hotline and an email that we monitor. Unlike some other jurisdictions across the country, we actually have a law enforcement division in the Secretary of State's office. Any complaint that we get, any complaint, it can be something as serious as potential vote buying, to something maybe as small as there's a handicap lift that wasn't working correctly at a precinct or there's not enough parking or there's long lines, we'll respond to every single one of those cases or look into those to see if it warrants an investigation. So we encourage Georgians that may see something improper, if they feel like their vote hasn't been cast properly, if somebody was manipulating them in a precinct, whatever it is, to report that to us, and we strategically put our investigators and inspectors around the State during the early voting advance period and on election day where we can respond very quickly. So we have a lot of ways that we try to stop voter fraud. But contrary to some people not believing it happens, it actually does. And when that does happen, we bring those individuals or counties, if they're not following the rules and procedures, to the State election board, and we have a due process that we go through. And we've actually had, you know, candidates that have paid heavy fines and have committed to never run for office again because of the actions that we've taken. So that's something, you know, and we treat every case the same, you know, when it comes to that. Mr. Hice. What about specifically when it involves electronic voting machines? I'm sure there are glitches from time to time. When someone offers a complaint due to a machine, what's your process? Mr. Hicks. Well, as you can imagine, that's something that's high on our radar, so we'll send somebody out. I mean, if we have an equipment problem, there's a couple actions we can take. We can send an investigator. We have emergency preparedness plans where, especially on big elections like we'll be having November the 8th, where we've coordinated with State Patrol and Department of Public Safety to have a helicopter and a trooper at the Kennesaw State election center. So let's say we have a server go out, which we had happen in a county. You know, if you don't get on that quickly and the results don't come in quickly, then the public starts to ask the question, why is that happening? So we now have the ability to either fly or drive with a law enforcement official, equipment. Or we've had times where we've had a failure with the voting equipment. We've had to send a technician out there to help maybe get a memory card out of there or something of that nature. So there's a lot of steps that we take to investigate, you know, also before the election to prevent those things happening, but also to make sure public confidence stays intact by responding quickly to those type things. Mr. Hice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. And, Mr. Secretary, thank you. Always great to see you. Mr. Hurd. I'd like to now recognize my friend and the Congressman from the great State of Georgia, Buddy Carter, for his 5 minutes. Mr. Carter. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank all of you for being here. This is obviously a very important subject that all of us are concerned with. Secretary Kemp, again, it's good to see you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for your work in the State of Georgia. We appreciate all of your efforts in making sure that our elections are run in a safe and effective manner, and you're doing a great job and we appreciate it. I appreciate the opportunity to have worked with you in the General Assembly and have fond memories of that. I wanted you to provide us some insight in your position as Secretary of State--and you also, as I understand, serve as co- chair of the National Association of Secretaries of State's Election Committee, and also as a member of the new DHS Election Infrastructure Cybersecurity Working Group. Cybersecurity is something we talk a lot about up here. I also, as the chairman also, he and I both serve on Homeland Security, and we are very concerned about cybersecurity. Mr. Secretary, can you briefly describe your role as a member of the DHS Election Infrastructure Cybersecurity Working Group? Can you tell me basically what you all do? Mr. Kemp. Well, it's a relatively new task force, if you will, that was created by Secretary Johnson and DHS so that we can have collaboration between the States and the Department of Homeland Security, and I certainly applaud that. I've had some people ask me why I would serve on that when I was so critical of the critical infrastructure definition, but I do. I feel very strongly that that's a designation that should not be put on election systems, but I also feel strongly that there are ways that we can collaborate as Secretary of State or State elections officials with a lot of different branches of the Federal Government to make sure that we're prepared, that we're informed, and that we can better protect our system. So the Working Group right now really has just been a series of phone calls to go over what DHS has rolled out for States that need or may want to voluntarily take advantage of some of the things that have been talked about, the cyber hygiene scanning and other things. And right now, from all I know, unless we have some sort of other event pop up, that's probably about all that's going to happen before the election, other than the States knowing that they can reach out to DHS directly. From the State of Georgia's perspective, we're already doing a lot of the things that have been offered, so we don't have the need for the assistance. It's not that we're not grateful for it being out there, it's just something that, you know, thankfully, we have been working on this issue, like you were saying, cybersecurity, for 3 years. And I know all of State government has as well. And we see that every day, not only in the Secretary of State's office, but all across State government in the State of Georgia, and we're part of an information sharing analysis center as well in Georgia that's going through the Technology Authority, GTA. Mr. Carter. Okay. Let me shift gears here for just a second. It's my understanding, the U.S. Election Assistance Commission, it's my understanding that the National Association of Secretaries of State has called for the elimination of that on several occasions. In fact, just recently, the most recent I should say, is probably in July of 2015. As the Secretary of State of Georgia, have you had any interactions with the EAC? Mr. Kemp. I have. You know, I was one of those, for full disclosure, that supported a resolution. I think it was several years ago. Mr. Hicks may have a better memory of that than me, because I felt like the usefulness of the organization, the time had passed. But to answer your question, yes, I have had dealings with the EAC. They're part of this working group, and I will say they've been very responsive in their role. Mr. Carter. So have they improved? I mean, are you now--do you now think that they're beneficial? Mr. Kemp. Well, I wouldn't want to go that--well, I definitely think they're beneficial. I have different thoughts about that that maybe in another setting I could spell out a little more detailed. But they've certainly been responsive in this issue. Mr. Carter. So should we eliminate them or should we just transfer some of that work to another group? Mr. Kemp. I'm of the belief that we can do a lot of that at the State level. Mr. Carter. Mr. Hicks---- Mr. Kemp. But I want to say it's been--I've been grateful that we have commissioners that have now been appointed to the EAC where they can work on certain things that are required at this time. Mr. Carter. Mr. Hicks. Mr. Hicks. I want to thank Secretary Kemp for his support. One of the things, when I--one of the reasons I spent 11 years up here was I spent 4-1/2 years as a nominee waiting for my confirmation. Mr. Carter. Four-and-a-half years? Mr. Hicks. I'm the longest serving Obama nominee, and I was finally confirmed in December of 2014. Mr. Carter. Who does the confirmation? Mr. Hicks. The Senate Rules Committee. But it was the full Senate. Mr. Carter. We're doing all we can. I feel your pain. We have to deal with them too. Mr. Hicks. But overall, the Election Assistance Commission sat without commissioners for almost 3 years and then sat without a general counsel or an executive director, so a lot of that work wasn't getting done. So when my fellow commissioners and I were confirmed, we hit the ground running. And so I think that, you know, most of the Secretaries of State have changed their tune to figure that we are more valuable now. But our role is to the States and locals and other stakeholders like the voters themselves, and so I think that now we are proving that we are valuable and hopefully will continue to do that. Mr. Carter. Well, great. Again, gentlemen, thank you for what you do. This is extremely important, and we all recognize that and all appreciate your work and your diligence in this. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Mr. Hurd. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. I'd now like to recognize the ranking member, Mr. Cummings. Mr. Cummings. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. This summer, there were reports that Russia was attempting to compromise our elections by hacking into election systems. This is a very grave issue that threatens the foundation of our democracy. On Monday, Ranking Member Diane Feinstein in the Senate Intelligence Committee and Ranking Member Adam Schiff of the House Intelligence Committee issued a joint statement. They said, and I quote, ``Based on briefings we have received, we have concluded that the Russian intelligence agencies are making a serious and concerted effort to influence the United States election,'' end of quote. They issued the statement after careful consultation with the intelligence community, our intelligence community. Now, Dr. Ozment, I assume you have no reason to question the accuracy of this statement. Is that right? Mr. Ozment. Sir, the executive branch has not attributed these incidents to any entity, and the FBI is leading an ongoing law enforcement investigation of these breaches. Mr. Cummings. Here is what I don't understand. For some reason, Donald Trump keeps defending Russia against these hacking allegations. In fact, in Monday night's debate, he said he doesn't know if it was Russia. It could be China. It could be a 400-pound person in bed, he said. Frankly, his statements seemed ridiculous to me. Not only has Mr. Trump defended Russia, he has encouraged Russia to conduct the hacking. Dr. Ozment, DHS plays a key role in helping States protect their election systems against cyber attacks. Is that right? Is that right, sir? Mr. Ozment. Sir, we are there to support State and local governments in defending their systems. That's right. Mr. Cummings. Well, this morning, FBI Director James Comey told the House Judiciary Committee, and I quote, ``There's no doubt that some bad actors have been poking around,'' end of quote. Here's my question, without disclosing any classified information, have you seen any uptick in probing attacks by foreign adversaries over the past 3 months? Mr. Ozment. Sir, I don't think we have a concrete answer for that question. What I'll tell you is, obviously, you know, there are two incidents in Arizona and Illinois that resulted in breaches of voter registration systems. And what I'll say applies only to voter registration systems and, therefore, does not impact the actual casting of a vote. As part of our response to that, we and others in the Federal Government have shared information with State and local governments, essentially Be on the Lookouts, which are called cyber indicators. State and local governments are using that to more carefully monitor their systems. Any time you more carefully monitor a system, you're going to see more bad guys poking and prodding at it, because they're always poking and prodding. What I can tell you is that I think it's safe to say that voter registration systems that are online will always be the subject of interest from bad guys, whether for stealing personal information by criminals or other nefarious purposes. And that's why we think it's important that State and local governments constantly focus on the security of those systems, and we have published guidelines to help them secure those systems. Mr. Cummings. On August 30, 2016, I sent a letter with ranking members of the Committees on Judiciary, Foreign Affairs, and Homeland Security, asking whether the FBI is investigating troubling connections between members of the Trump inner circle and the Russian interests. I ask unanimous consent that this letter be made a part of the record, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Hurd. Without objection, so ordered. Mr. Cummings. Dr. Ozment, earlier this morning, FBI Director Comey was asked about this letter before the House Judiciary Committee. Comey said that the FBI is trying to figure out, quote, ``just what mischief is Russia up to in connection with our election.'' He also said he would not inform Congress, at least at this stage, about any interviews with individuals working for Mr. Trump who were listed in this letter, because he does not comment on ongoing investigations. I want to ask you specific questions about this, but generally, does DHS work with the FBI to investigate illegal acting by foreign adversaries? Mr. Ozment. So, in July, the President released Presidential Policy Directive 41 that laid out the role of DHS and the FBI in investigating cyber incidents. And you can think about it as a significant cyber incident being the equivalent of an arson in the real world. And when you have an arson, you want both the firefighters and the cops to show up. In this analogy, the FBI are the cops. They're the lead what we call threat responders, the lead law enforcement agency. My organization are the lead firefighters. So we focus on helping the victim and taking information to share with other victims and help them--or other potential victims and help them protect themselves. So we do collaborate closely with the FBI, but it's the FBI in the lead role for ascertaining who is the perpetrator and bringing that perpetrator to justice. Mr. Cummings. One last question: Again, generally, if you come across evidence that anyone in the United States was aware of these illegal actions or even collaborated with foreign adversaries, would you work with prosecutors and FBI investigators? Mr. Ozment. If at any time we come across any evidence of a crime, unless we are prohibited from sharing that, we would immediately share it with law enforcement agencies. Mr. Cummings. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you. Mr. Hurd. Thank you, Ranking Member. And, Mr. Hicks, I want to say thank you for your time and contribution to this hearing. I know you have to slip away, and if you do, please go ahead. Mr. Hicks. I can't leave when my own Congressman just showed up. So I don't know if I--I can take the 5 minutes to see if he has questions for me. Mr. Hurd. Great. Well, with that, I would like to recognize my friend from the Commonwealth of Virginia, Mr. Connolly, for 5 minutes. Mr. Connolly. I know Mr. Hicks is not flying home. Mr. Hicks. I'm actually going to Iceland. Mr. Connolly. My daughter was just there. She was hiking. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to the panel. And good luck, Mr. Hicks. Enjoy Iceland. Last month, the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said, and I quote: ``We should carefully consider whether our election system, our election process is critical infrastructure, like the financial sector, like the power grid.'' Mr. Ozment, what did Mr. Johnson mean by that? Mr. Ozment. So, first, I should note that DHS has not formally designated the electoral system as critical infrastructure. We are focused right now in the immediate term on providing whatever resources and assistance we are able to provide to States and local governments and whichever resources and assistance they want from us. You know, longer term, I think that's a conversation that we want to have with State and local governments. Under our authorities, there are additional capabilities that we can provide to those governments if we designate the system as critical infrastructure. That includes additional protections we can put on information. If, for example, we wanted to get in a conversation with both State and local governments and vendors, we could better protect the information that those vendors provide to us. We have--we can better prioritize the resources that we want to give to them, and it improves our ability to, for example, offer clearances to folks involved in this process. I would like to highlight that if we were to make that designation, it does not give us any regulatory powers. All of our resources and assistance would still be voluntary, you know, and the State and local governments would remain in charge of elections. Mr. Connolly. So if, however, we did declare it critical infrastructure, I think Mr. Appel said there were 12 States that still use touchscreen technology. Is that correct? Mr. Appel. Some States use touchscreens in some of their counties and not others. So I said approximately 10 States, based on the preponderance of the use of---- Mr. Connolly. So if we declare it critical infrastructure, we might be able to provide some assistance if those States chose to move to the, you know, paper/electronic kind of ballot. Mr. Ozment. We can offer assistance now, and I think it would help us in our ability to offer assistance. But we would not, for example, be able to replace their systems. We wouldn't be able to offer that type of assistance. Mr. Connolly. Mr. Kemp, I want to make sure I understood your testimony. I thought I heard you say that elections should be governed strictly by States and localities and that it was not really the business of the Federal Government. Am I getting your testimony correctly? Mr. Kemp. Well, it's a constitutional duty of the States to run elections. Mr. Connolly. Isn't also, however, a concern of the Federal Government that Federal elections have some uniformity to them? For example, the Voting Rights Act. Mr. Kemp. Well, I certainly understand your point, but I think the whole argument of critical infrastructure, just like Mr. Ozment just said, protecting vendors' information really goes against the open process that we have now at the State level where, like when we test our voting equipment, it's advertised in the local legal organ. You know, the local newspaper editor or reporter can come watch that process that the local election boards do, and any citizen. And I think the idea of federalizing our elections to where we have a one-size-fits-all voter registration system or mandating that States use a certain voting system or one type of voting system creates all kinds of problems and, quite honestly, I think would make our system--make the system more vulnerable, not less. Mr. Connolly. Well, so are you saying that, from your point of view, the 50 different State systems plus tens of thousands of localities is just fine, and we shouldn't even look at it at the Federal level? Mr. Kemp. Well, I wouldn't say that you shouldn't look at it and everything is just fine. There's certainly jurisdictions out there that do better than others. We have that in the State of Georgia. But I believe that we're better suited as a State to provide solutions for that than the Federal Government is. Mr. Connolly. Well, what about the Voting Rights Act? I mean, that was an argument used back in the 1950s and 1960s for the Federal Government to keep its nose out of State jurisdiction. Frankly, if the Federal Government hadn't passed the Voting Rights Act, people would have still been disenfranchised, including in your home State and mine. Mr. Kemp. I would say that the Voting Rights Act is still intact. Mr. Connolly. Yes, but it's an example of the opposite of what you're asserting. It was an example of federalizing something to protect the franchise, because the States weren't doing it. In fact, States were actively suppressing votes. You don't deny that, do you? Mr. Kemp. Well, I'm not sure I understand what that has to do with the election system. Mr. Connolly. Well, I'm dealing with your assertion of the principle that we shouldn't federalize any aspect of this. And I'm arguing that the Voting Rights Act is a clear exception to your principle and that perhaps the Federal Government in Federal elections, at least, has an interest that overrides the State interest when it comes to protecting, at the cyber level, the integrity of the results. Mr. Kemp. Well, that's certainly your opinion. Mine differs. Mr. Connolly. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Hurd. Thank you, Mr. Connolly. I now would like to ask unanimous consent to submit two letters for the record: One from the National Association of Secretaries of State. It is an open letter from the Nation's secretaries of state to Congress talking about how we can work together to share the facts about cybersecurity in our elections. The second letter is from the Electronic Privacy Information Center about this hearing. Without objection, so ordered. Mr. Hurd. Mr. Hicks, one of the things that you said, one of the three points that the EAC is responsible for is providing grants. Is there grant money available to help upgrade aging equipment? Mr. Hicks. Most of that money has already been accounted for, so there is no money available to replace voting equipment. Mr. Hurd. Thank you. And, Dr. Ozment, I just want to be clear. This conversation about designating voting systems as critical infrastructure, that is off the table for this election. Is that correct? Mr. Ozment. It's not what we're focused on in the near term. We really in the next 3 months--voting has started. You know, voting is occurring in a number of jurisdictions across the U.S. For the next few months, we're focused on how we can help State and local governments. Mr. Hurd. And I would like to end with my takeaways from this, is that pieces of our voting system are vulnerable, but it's really hard to hack our voting systems. There are some that need to be upgraded. We should never rest on outdated legacy systems and that we should be looking at how we solve this problem working together and that there's resources within DHS for our States to voluntarily ask for. And this is not forcing any particular program on an individual State. And what I'd like to do in my remaining 3 minutes, I'd love to go down the line and everybody take 30 seconds and give your final points. This is an important topic. I appreciate you all being here, and this is your last conversation with the American people. So let's start with you, Mr. Norden, and work our way backwards. Mr. Norden. Thank you, Chairman Hurd. I guess I would emphasize two things. What I said earlier, I think, one of the most important things that we can do is ensure that there is confidence in the system. I think that the issues of access and confidence and integrity of our voting system are all interdependent and linked. Too often, access and integrity are presented as oppositional. I do think that there is a role for Congress after this election to start thinking about what investments the Federal Government can make to ensure that there is confidence in the system, through research grants for innovation and for replacing some of the oldest equipment that really is a challenge. And one last point I want to make is, because so many States are leaving it to counties to purchase this equipment, we really are starting to see a kind of two-tiered system in this country, with counties with less money, less resources-- they're often rural counties--are left without being able to invest and replace their equipment. And we're talking, yes, about local elections but also Federal elections, of course. Mr. Hurd. Thank you, Mr. Norden. Mr. Appel, 30 seconds. Mr. Appel. After the election, I think it would be a very good thing for the Congress to find a way to assist and encourage those 10 States that still primarily use paperless touchscreen machines to switch to optical scan machines. I would say also that there are many safeguards in our American elections which we haven't explicitly discussed in this hearing, and those have to do with the inherent transparency of the canvassing process in many States, in most States, where the results are announced in each precinct of how many votes each candidate got in the precinct. And the challengers, the party challengers, and any interested citizen can see for themselves that those numbers add up to what the election officials are reporting in the precinct-by-precinct totals. And that's a safeguard against hacking of the computers in county central that might be adding up those precincts. So we should encourage measures that election administrators are already taking to make transparent the process of reporting the precinct-by-precinct numbers in a way that we can see that they add up. Mr. Hurd. Excellent. Thank you, sir. Secretary Kemp. Mr. Connolly. Would the chairman yield for one second? Just to Mr. Appel's point, we had an election in Virginia for a State attorney general. And because we had a paper trail, we were able to see an anomaly in absentee ballots cast, that clearly there was an anomaly in one congressional district. And sure enough, there was a ballot box that had accidentally been put aside because of a malfunction, and the votes had not been counted. It actually made the difference in terms of who won; it was that dispositive. So what Mr. Appel is saying I think is really critical in terms of getting accurate results in our elections throughout the country. Mr. Appel. I'll just add that the kind of transparency you get from that makes it so that you don't have to be a cybersecurity expert to understand that anomaly and correct it. Mr. Hurd. Secretary Kemp. Mr. Kemp. Chairman Hurd, thank you for having me today, members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to be here. I think, in my 30 seconds, I would just encourage you to continue to collaborate with the secretaries of states, Lieutenant Governors, and other election officials back home and ask them what they're doing, what they're doing to prepare. I would encourage all American citizens to do that as well. I think they'll be very pleasantly surprised to see the preparations that are going on all across this country to make sure we have secure, accessible, and fair elections in Georgia. And I certainly would appreciate any more collaboration that we can have with this committee or other Members of Congress and the National Association of Secretaries of State to work together in the future. Mr. Hurd. Mr. Hicks. Mr. Hicks. Saturday marked the 45 days before the election, and on that day ballots were sent out to our men and women overseas so that they can start casting their ballots back. Early voting is going to start soon for many States. And one of the messages and the message that I want to make sure is clear today is that our elections are secure. We on our Web site and throughout the Nation when we've gone around this country have talked about our Be Ready 16 campaign to talk to States about how they can secure their elections, how to make sure that the ballots are being counted accurately and so forth. And, you know, come November 8, we know that we will have an election and that election will be secure. Mr. Hurd. Dr. Ozment. Mr. Ozment. We must be vigilant, as we must always be in an area where there are cyber threats. Particularly, as many States upgrade their voting systems over the next 4 years, we must build those systems to have more cybersecurity that stops not just the attacks of today but the attacks of the future, when they'll still be used in 2030 or 2040. But overall and right now, we have confidence in the integrity of our electoral system. We have no indication that adversaries are planning cyber operations against U.S. election infrastructure that would change the outcome of this election. We believe that the diversity and many different levels of checks and balances in our electoral systems are sufficient that we should all have confidence in the integrity of the system and the election. Mr. Hurd. Thank you, Dr. Ozment. Now I'd like to recognize Ranking Member Cummings for 5 minutes. Mr. Cummings. Thank you very much. Again, I am concerned very much about the cyber situation, but I'm also concerned about African Americans and Hispanics and so many others who have been blocked from voting. I think that I will go to my grave trying to do everything in my power to make sure that everybody has an opportunity to vote. My foreparents were denied it over and over again, and I'm seeing a lot of the same things happening today. Mr. Kemp, you are secretary of state for Georgia, which is one of the three States that were allowed to modify the Federal form to require proof of citizenship in your State, based on the unilateral decision of Brian Newby, the EAC Executive Director. I understand that you submitted a request for this modification. But in addition to that, did you or anyone in your office have communications with Mr. Newby or anyone else at the EAC relating to this request? Mr. Kemp. I have to look back and see if that was the case before or after. I know we had written letters asking for this issue to be treated like the EAC had treated previous instances, where we could simply treat the Federal form the same way that we treat the State form in our State. Mr. Cummings. Can you please provide this committee with the copies of all email or other communications between you or anyone in your office and anyone at the EAC about this issue? Would you do that for us, please, sir? Mr. Kemp. We can do that. Mr. Cummings. Thank you. Mr. Kemp, what evidence did you submit to the EAC demonstrating that the modification you requested was necessary for the administration of elections in Georgia? Mr. Kemp. Well, we were simply trying to, as I said earlier, match the State form with the Federal form. Mr. Cummings. Will you provide the committee with all documents relating to that issue also? Mr. Kemp. We certainly can look into that. Mr. Cummings. No, that's not what I asked you. I said, would you provide us with the documents, sir? Mr. Kemp. Well, I wouldn't be able to answer that question, but I can certainly look into that and get back to you. Mr. Cummings. I'd like you to provide to the committee any and all documents that you and your office have relating to any analysis you did regarding the impact on eligible voters that your request would have. Did you look into that? Keep in mind in North Carolina what they did is they systematically figured out when black people vote; they figured out how they vote; and then they, with precision--with precision--made sure that they did everything in their power to stop them from voting. And so I just want to make sure that we have the documentation. I'm sure whatever you did is proper, but I'd just like to know. It would be congressional malpractice on my part, as a son of people who could not vote, to sit here and have you all here and not address this issue. So I'd just like to have the documents. That's all. I'm sure you've got justification. Mr. Kemp. Well, Representative, it's really a pretty simple thing that we were trying to do. We were simply trying to make the Federal form have the same questions as the State form. But I will tell you, as the State of Georgia, under my administration and leadership, we have implemented online voter registration where anybody that has a driver's license or a State-issued ID card can register to vote 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And we've had over 360-some thousand people that have used that system. Right now, we have a Student Ambassadors Program that we started last year with a pilot of 14 high schools around the State and 150 kids. It's now ballooned to over 800 students in any kind of high school that you can imagine across the State of Georgia. We have over 102 high schools where we're actually teaching students in the school to register their peers to vote. So I can assure you if anybody that meets the requirements and wants to register to vote in Georgia, they can easily do so. Mr. Cummings. I'm glad to hear that. I just have two more questions. The Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit temporarily halted and reversed the unilateral action by the EAC Executive Director. However, prior to that, do you know how many voters in Georgia had tried to register using the Federal form and were turned away because they did not provide proof of citizenship? Mr. Kemp. I wouldn't be able to answer that question. Mr. Cummings. And how long will you need to get back to us on that? Can you get that information? Mr. Kemp. I'll have to check on that and get back to you. Mr. Cummings. Mr. Chairman, as I said, I am just concerned. When Justice Ginsburg was talking about Texas, I think it was in the Shelby case, and she was saying that 600,000 Texans would not be able to vote, I mean, if we want to have an emergency, that's what the emergency ought to be about. Every single person, I don't care whether they're Tea Party, Green Party, Democrat, or Republican, I will fight for their right to vote. And I just want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your courtesy. And I look forward to your responses, Secretary of State Kemp. Mr. Kemp. Let me just make one point. While we were asking for the form to be changed, we never stopped taking the Federal forms. Mr. Cummings. But can you understand--and I'm almost finished, Mr. Chairman. But can you understand why African American people, Hispanics, and others might be upset when people are--I'm not saying you--when people are blocking them from voting, when they're paying taxes and working hard and doing everything they're supposed to do and not be able to vote? I mean, can you understand it? Mr. Kemp. Well, I can understand it, but I can assure you that that's not happening in Georgia. Actually, we've seen minority participation increase in our State. Mr. Cummings. Thank you. Mr. Hurd. I'd like to thank our witnesses for taking the time to appear before us today. If there's no further business, without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned. [Whereupon, at 4:54 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] APPENDIX ---------- Material Submitted for the Hearing Record [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]