[House Hearing, 114 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
BANGLADESH'S FRACTURE: POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS EXTREMISM
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ASIA AND THE PACIFIC
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
APRIL 30, 2015
__________
Serial No. 114-46
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
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COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida BRAD SHERMAN, California
DANA ROHRABACHER, California GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
JOE WILSON, South Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
TED POE, Texas BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
MATT SALMON, Arizona KAREN BASS, California
DARRELL E. ISSA, California WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts
TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
MO BROOKS, Alabama AMI BERA, California
PAUL COOK, California ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California
RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas GRACE MENG, New York
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
RON DeSANTIS, Florida TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
TED S. YOHO, Florida ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
CURT CLAWSON, Florida BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee
REID J. RIBBLE, Wisconsin
DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan
LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
TOM EMMER, Minnesota
Amy Porter, Chief of Staff Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director
Jason Steinbaum, Democratic Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific
MATT SALMON, Arizona Chairman
DANA ROHRABACHER, California BRAD SHERMAN, California
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio AMI BERA, California
TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California
MO BROOKS, Alabama GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania GRACE MENG, New York
SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee
C O N T E N T S
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Page
WITNESSES
Ms. Lisa Curtis, senior research fellow, Asian Studies Center,
The Davis Institute for National Security and Foreign Policy,
The Heritage Foundation........................................ 5
Mr. Ali Riaz, Ph.D., professor, Department of Politics and
Government Chair, Illinois State University.................... 16
Mr. Jay Kansara, director, Government Relations, Hindu American
Foundation..................................................... 32
Mr. Steven D. Fleischli, president, U.S.-Bangladesh Trade and
Relations Association.......................................... 42
Alyssa Ayres, Ph.D., senior fellow for India, Pakistan, and South
Asia, Council on Foreign Relations............................. 51
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
Ms. Lisa Curtis: Prepared statement.............................. 7
Mr. Ali Riaz, Ph.D.: Prepared statement.......................... 18
Mr. Jay Kansara: Prepared statement.............................. 35
Mr. Steven D. Fleischli: Prepared statement...................... 45
Alyssa Ayres, Ph.D.: Prepared statement.......................... 54
APPENDIX
Hearing notice................................................... 78
Hearing minutes.................................................. 79
The Honorable Gerald E. Connolly, a Representative in Congress
from the Commonwealth of Virginia: Prepared statement.......... 80
BANGLADESH'S FRACTURE: POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS EXTREMISM
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THURSDAY, APRIL 30, 2015
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2 o'clock p.m.,
in room 2255 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Matt Salmon
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. Salmon. Good afternoon. The subcommittee will come to
order. We often speak of the rebalance or pivot to Asia solely
in terms of the large nations such as China and India.
But today we are going to turn our attention to Bangladesh,
a nation that may be discussed less often than its larger
neighbors but is nevertheless significant to our increased
engagement in the region.
Today, we are going to discuss why it is critical that we
keep a close eye on Bangladesh and why Bangladesh's security
has significant bearing on regional security, thus on our
efforts to rebalance.
But first, I would like to take a moment of silence for
those whose lives were lost and destroyed in the tragic
earthquake this past weekend, affecting so many in the nations
of Nepal, India as well as Bangladesh.
Thank you. Okay. Bangladesh does have a unique story, a
very inspirational one. A moderate voice in the Islamic world
that is home to 166 million people with a Muslim majority, all
within a geographic space the size of Iowa.
While roughly 80 percent of the population lives on less
than $2 a day, we recognize the earnest advances that the
country has made with consistent GDP growth averaging 6.2
percent over the last decade, something that we would love to
have right now.
Bangladesh's fractious democracy is dominated by two
competing political factions--the Awami League, led by Prime
Minister Sheikh Hasina, currently in power, and Bangladesh
National Party, or BMP, led by former Prime Minister Khaleda
Zia.
These powerful leaders rule their parties like fiefdoms and
corruption continues to be a major issue. Tensions between the
two parties has often been high but since the most recent
parliamentary elections in 2014 the escalation of violence
between the two sides has been especially appalling.
Polarization between Awami League and BMP has reached new
levels and politically motivated attacks have begun to target
everyday people, including commuters and students.
We have seen assaults on journalists and horrific firebomb
attacks on buses. Today, I hope to hear from our distinguished
panelists about the violence committed by both parties to draw
attention to this issue and make clear our state of disdain for
the use of any type of violence as a means to convey a
political message.
Both parties should know that democracy requires more than
just lip service. If Bangladesh wants to refer to its own
political system as a democracy it must be a democracy in
substance.
But since the Awami League took power in January 2009,
significant changes to the electoral process were made
including the removal of independent and neutral caretaker
government during elections.
This led to the boycott of the 2014 elections by the BMP
and sparked the current spates of violence that we are seeing
today. As it now stands, Bangladesh is in the midst of a
serious political security crisis.
Just this past Tuesday, the BMP once again boycotted
elections, this time at the municipal level citing polling
irregularities. The U.S. Embassy in Bangladesh echoes our
concerns saying, we are disappointed by widespread, first-hand
and credible reports of vote rigging, intimidation and
violence.
Incidents like this may lead to a further break down of
order that could open space for Islamic militants or could
force the military to take control once again.
Today, we will discuss both political and religious
extremism. To be sure, there are links to draw between them.
However, it is also important to distinguish between the
actions attributable to political and religious violence.
Bangladesh has been a security partner in the combat
against extremist terrorist groups as they currently have eight
or more major Islamic extremist groups within their borders,
many with ties to international terrorist networks.
In addition to tackling terrorism through law enforcement,
Bangladesh also uses strategic communication to counter violent
extremism especially among youth through Madrassas and other
religious institutions.
Bangladesh is a current partner and a key partner in the
struggle against Islamic extremism and we hope to continue this
collective effort with Bangladesh and other valuable partners
throughout the world. The Bangladesh government has also
established the Rapid Action Battalion, or RAB, which has been
very effective in counter terrorism efforts.
However, during changes in political power the two
competing parties have been known to use the RAB for
politically motivated attacks on the opposition.
We need to pay close attention to these types of junctures
where a political crisis hampers the noble counter terror
efforts in Bangladesh and do whatever possible to ensure that
the domestic political turmoil does not negatively impact this
critical mission.
At our hearing today, and as our committee continues to
engage with the Asia Pacific, I hope our members keep in mind
the significance of Bangladesh for the United States.
Bangladesh's geographic position at the crossroads of
India, China and the rest of South Asia is of growing
importance. For example, Bangladesh has long been a trading
partner with the United States and we enjoy amiable trade
relations through ongoing bilateral trade investment agreement.
We also have a strong interest in supporting our fellow--a
fellow democracy, particularly in the Muslim world. What really
is at stake in Bangladesh is the struggle for the ideological
foundation of a nation between those that would emphasize
secular ideas and Bengali ethnic identity and those that seek a
firm Islamist ideology.
In Bangladesh there is great potential. We have the
opportunity to support a society that embraces nonviolent
competition and one that shirks religious extremism.
We should signal to the country that we support ideals such
as respect for human dignity and freedom of expression no
matter one's political disposition, creed or religion.
The people of Bangladesh deserve that. This is a timely
discussion and I hope to gather valuable information and ideas
today to better inform Congress' policy toward Bangladesh and I
give my sincere thanks to my colleagues and our witnesses for
joining me today, and I yield to the ranking member.
Mr. Sherman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for
remembering the people of Nepal at the beginning of this
hearing.
Bangladesh is the second largest predominantly Muslim
country in the world. It is also a country with a nearly 10
percent Hindu minority. A hundred and sixty-six million people
of whom 60 million live in extreme poverty.
The United States needs to dedicate ourselves to human
rights, democracy and economic development in Bangladesh and
that includes support for those who will protect the workers
who all too often we see in a particular disaster or a caved in
building.
But we have to remember that there are still less
spectacular destruction of ongoing poverty and labor abuse. It
may not be the kind of scene that gets international press
attention, but 60 million people living in extreme poverty
deserve our attention.
And there are 200 labor unions in Bangladesh but we need to
see more support for organizations that protect workers there
and, of course, it is up to consumers to be aware of the effect
of their consumption decisions.
We also have a stake in Bangladesh achieving a moderation
and not being taken down the road of some would call it Islamic
extremism, some would call it a corruption of Islam.
In particular, note that Jamaat-ul-Mujahideen Bangladesh,
the JMB group, has reportedly infiltrated from Bangladesh into
border districts of India to make contacts with sympathizers
and several madrassas focusing on recruitment and fund-raising.
It has sought to recruit 150 men to carry out attacks and
sent 50 improvised explosives to Dhaka and Assam areas as the
Islamic State has grown and we are seeing both it and al-Qaeda
trying to bolster their ranks in Bangladesh.
In addition, Bangladesh faces a particular challenge
because over 200,000 Rohingya from Burma, or Myanmar, have fled
into Bangladesh, feeling persecution in their home country, and
of course this creates an opening for the terrorist groups to
try to recruit, to try to turn refugees into--exploit the anger
and try to turn them into terrorists.
This is, of course, an ongoing problem and according to the
Hindustan Times, pan-Islamic groups have attracted a few of
these individuals, promising them to help carry out retribution
against Myanmar.
The fact remains that Bangladesh's government and, of
course, it is split and there we do have significant concerns
about democracy there. But the Bangladeshi government has been
a partner of the United States in fighting terrorism.
I look forward to hearing from our witnesses as to how we
can see a Bangladesh that protects its Hindu minority, that is
a partner for us against Islamic extremist terrorism and is
growing both economically and in terms of its dedication to
democracy and human rights, and I yield back.
Mr. Salmon. Thank you, Ranking Member.
We are in the appropriations season and it is incredibly
chaotic today. We are going to be called for a vote probably in
the next 10 minutes and so I know that members want to make
opening statements and I am trying to juxtapose everything
today and I am going to deeply apologize that we are going to
just limit the opening statements to myself and the ranking
member just in the interests of time and I do want to get to
the panel very badly.
That is why we are here, and for those members I deeply
apologize. I thought we were going to have a little bit more
flexibility today than we are having and this is so important.
So I would like to introduce the witnesses. We are very
fortunate to have Lisa Curtis, a senior research fellow from
Heritage Foundation's Asian Study Center, Dr. Ali Riaz--is it
Riaz? Did I pronounce that right? Joins us from Illinois State
University where he is chair of the Department of Politics and
Government. Thank you.
Jay Kansara is here from the Hindu American Foundation
where he is the director of government relations and I
understand that you recently returned from Bangladesh, and
Steven Fleischli, correct? Joins us from Bangladesh Trade and
Relations Association where he is president, and Alissa Ayres
joins us from the Council on Foreign Relations where she is a
senior fellow for India, Pakistan and South Asia.
And without objection, the witnesses' full prepared
statement will be made part of the record and members will have
5 calendar days to submit statements, questions and extraneous
materials for the record.
Ms. Curtis.
STATEMENT OF MS. LISA CURTIS, SENIOR RESEARCH FELLOW, ASIAN
STUDIES CENTER, THE DAVIS INSTITUTE FOR NATIONAL SECURITY AND
FOREIGN POLICY, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION
Ms. Curtis. Yes, thank you very much for inviting me here
to testify on Bangladesh--a very important issue. I commend
your subcommittee for bringing this issue to everyone's
attention.
The political tensions between the ruling Awami League
government and the BNP opposition are threatening to derail
economic and social progress in the country and certainly the
brutal murders of two liberal bloggers in the last 2 months has
reminded us of the threat of Islamist extremism in Bangladesh
and the possibility that extremists could take advantage of the
current political unrest.
On January 5th, the opposition engaged in protest
demonstrations. This was on the anniversary of the flawed
national election of last year. The protests quickly turned
violent and particularly disturbing was a series of petrol
bombings on buses that killed or injured hundreds of innocent
bystanders.
As many as 7,000 opposition activists have reportedly been
detained in jail and 20 opposition supporters have allegedly
died in extrajudicial circumstances. A senior opposition
official, Salahuddin Ahmed, has reportedly disappeared from him
home on March 10th after being taken by men who identified
themselves as police.
Unfortunately, Tuesday's municipal elections in Dhaka and
Chittagong have also been marred by allegations of rigging and
voter intimidation and the opposition pulled out of those
elections midway through the process.
There had been hope that these municipal elections would
help restore faith in the democratic process but instead they
seem to have further vitiated the atmosphere between the
government and the opposition.
The U.S. had previously held Bangladesh up as a model of a
large Muslim country with a functioning democracy. Moreover,
Bangladesh has made significant social and economic gains over
the last decade.
Life expectancy has increased, infant mortality has
decreased, female literacy has doubled and economic growth has
averaged around 6 percent annually.
All of this is now at risk. The political unrest is
occurring at the same time that the government is cracking down
on the leading Islamist political party, the Jamaat-e-Islami.
The Jamaat is currently banned from participating in
elections and its top leaders have either been executed or are
facing death sentences for their roles in siding with Pakistani
forces during Bangladesh's 1971 war for independence.
Now, the trials of the Jamaat leaders have found some favor
with a segment of the Bangladeshi population, especially the
young urban middle class and we saw this during the Shahbag
movement in 2013 when protestors gathered to object to what
they considered overly lenient sentencing of those accused of
war crimes.
Sheikh Hasina's efforts to crack down on radical Islamists
and to emphasize the secular principles of the country's
founding are certainly welcome.
But closing down the Jamaat entirely could backfire. The
government should consider whether cracking down on peaceful
avenues of political participation could reinforce the violent
elements of Jamaat and therefore make the problem even worse.
So how can the U.S. help Bangladesh avoid further political
unrest? First, I think the U.S. needs to be more proactive in
encouraging dialogue between the government and the opposition
and this includes being more vocal in criticizing both the
opposition's violent tactics and the government's failure to
provide adequate political space for the opposition.
Second, the U.S. should facilitate a civil society dialogue
that involves the younger generation and is aimed at empowering
local groups to advocate for nonviolent politics.
Such a dialogue could involve a variety of political,
economic and religious civic organizations and could even
involve the Jamaat-e-Islami younger members and emphasize the
importance of respect for religious minorities and ensuring the
political process is reflective of modern Bangladesh's
achievement including the increase in Bangladeshi women's
participation in the social, economic and political life of the
country.
Thirdly, the U.S. should incentivize Sheikh Hasina to
create the conditions for political stability through the
prospect of greater U.S. trade and investment.
The U.S. is the biggest export market for Bangladesh. So,
certainly, expanding those exports and attracting more U.S.
investment is a goal for Dhaka and the U.S. should make clear
that political stability returning to the country would
encourage Washington to facilitate more trade delegations to
the country.
There is much at stake in the political future of
Bangladesh and the U.S. has to be more proactive in convincing
the government and opposition to resolve differences through
dialogue, noting that both political parties stand to suffer if
political tensions continue.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Curtis follows:]
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Mr. Salmon. Thank you.
Dr. Riaz, I think that you will probably be the last one
that testifies before we end up having to go vote if the vote
schedule stays the way it has been predicted.
So could you go ahead and make a statement? And then if
that is--we will probably get buzzed, you know, while you are
speaking but we will wait until you conclude to leave.
Thank you. And it won't be that we left because we didn't
like what you said.
STATEMENT OF MR. ALI RIAZ, PH.D., PROFESSOR, DEPARTMENT OF
POLITICS AND GOVERNMENT CHAIR, ILLINOIS STATE UNIVERSITY
Mr. Riaz. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Salmon, Ranking
Member--Congressman Sherman and the committee. Thank you for
the invitation to discuss the political situation in
Bangladesh.
In the past 1\1/2\ years, Bangladeshi politics has
experienced a tumultuous period. The period is marked by two
episodes of heightened violence--that is in late 2013 and early
2015, a flawed national election in 2014, unremitting heavy-
handed actions by the government between 2013 and 2015 and
highly-rigged city corporation elections and actions which took
place in 28th of February, 2015, all of which raised serious
concerns regarding the future trajectory of the country's
political, particularly the prospects of democracy.
The uncertainty that has gripped the nation since 2011 has
not disappeared. It is the absence of the trust among the major
political parties, lack of consensus on the modus operandi of
holding an inclusive national election and dearth of
institutions to protect the fundamental rights of the citizens
including exercising the right to vote freely that together
sustains this uncertainty.
In the past 3 years, a number of disturbing trends have
emerged which reflect the sorry state of the human rights
situation in the country. In recent years and particularly
since 2014, the restrictions on freedom of assembly, movement
and speech have shrunk the democratic space significantly.
Violence and intimidation have become the primary modes of
political expression.
The belligerent rhetoric of the ruling party and its
supporters contributed to the likelihood of the emergence of
regimented system of governance akin to authoritarianism.
Unrestrained use of force on the part of the government
along with the high degree of surveillance, growing number of
extrajudicial killings and enforced disappearances have created
a culture of fear.
The opposition parties, particularly the major opposition,
BNP, have either participated or encouraged violence as a
principal means to press for its demands for a fresh national
election. The nature and scope of violence has changed for
worse.
Innocent citizens have been targeted. It is evident that
the opposition's tactics have failed to mobilize citizens in
its support. There have been no public inquiries to find the
perpetrators of these arson attacks and bring them to justice.
The government ruling party and the regime supporters have
tried to justify severe measures in the name of restoration of
peace and stability at the expense of democracy in general and
particularly the fundamental rights of the citizens.
Furthermore, the regime supporters have also argued that
economic development should be privatized over democracy.
Both are highly discredited approaches and should be noted
in earnest. The relentless belligerent posturing have
contributed to the polarization of this society and encouraged
extremists rhetoric, resulting in further violence.
This allows non-state actors to take advantage of the
situation and pursue their radical agenda. The brutal murders
of bloggers Rajib Haider in 2013, Avijit Roy and Washiqur
Rahmanin in 2015 demonstrate that political uncertainty,
heightened violence and absence of the rule of law provides the
environment in within which militants can fester and become a
threat to society.
These incidents also show that the country has become a
dangerous place for those who dare to make critical comments
about Islam. Islamist militants groups such as Ansarullah
Bangla Team or Harkat-ul Jihadal Islam find opportunity when
the state's security apparatuses lose their focus.
Bangladesh has achieved remarkable success since 2007 in
curbing militancy. But democracy deficit, recurrence of
violence within mainstream politics and state repression may
undermine this achievement.
Now what can be done? I would quote Professor Rehman
Siobhan, a scholar of Bangladesh--``Move to restore
predictability to the lives of the people has to move forward
through the political process rather than dependence on street
violence or the coercive power of the state. The end result
must be a political settlement which recreates a more inclusive
political order underwritten by a fairly acquired democratic
mandate.''
To achieve these goals, it is imperative, number one, steps
are taken to ensure a fairly acquired democratic mandate for
governance.
Erosion of fundamental rights must be stopped and
democratic space for democratic constitutional parties are
restored, freedom of assembly, movement and speech guaranteed
in the constitution be adhered in essence and to the letter,
unaccountable and excessive use of state's coercive power
including extrajudicial killing and enforced disappearance be
brought to an end.
All parties, including the opposition parties,
unequivocally denounce violence as a means to achieve political
goals and, finally, institutions to protect the fundamental
rights of the citizens including exercising the right to vote
freely be restored.
With that, I think at this point the United States and the
international community has a responsibility to ensure that
these things are done and done in a fairly manner so that
Bangladesh should not be running into a spiral which would take
it in a downward slope.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Riaz follows:]
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Mr. Salmon. Thank you, Dr. Riaz.
It looks like we are going to get to another panelist.
Mr. Kansara.
STATEMENT OF MR. JAY KANSARA, DIRECTOR, GOVERNMENT RELATIONS,
HINDU AMERICAN FOUNDATION
Mr. Kansara. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member and
respected members of the subcommittee. It is a privilege for me
to appear before you today.
The Hindu American Foundation, a nonprofit advocacy and
human rights organization, has been closely monitoring the
political and human rights crisis in Bangladesh for several
years.
I would like to acknowledge the tremendous work of my
colleague, HAF senior director and human rights fellow, Samir
Kalra, who is the author of our annual human rights report.
Bangladesh has been engulfed by political turmoil and large
scale violence since 2013. While the Awami League government
has contributed to this unrest through its repressive policies,
the primary responsibility for the violence and instability
specifically targeting minorities falls upon the main
opposition party, the Bangladesh Nationalist Party, and its
largest coalition partner, the Jamaat-e-Islami.
Earlier this year, I visited Dhaka to survey the conditions
of religious minorities. On this trip I witnessed first hand
the political unrest and its detrimental impact on the daily
lives of ordinary Bangladeshis, specifically referring to the
hartals.
During this trip where I was joined by HAF volunteer, a
native Bengali speaker, Utsav Chakrabarti, we also met with
dozens of civil society leaders, human rights activists,
minority groups and three members of Parliament, all of whom
expressed serious concern with the rising tide of religious
intolerance, extremism and a burgeoning threat of pro-ISIS
activity in the country.
The escalation of attacks on religious minorities which
began in 2013 were still fresh on the minds of Hindus,
Christians, Buddhists and secularists whom we met with.
In late January 2013, after the International Crimes
Tribunal began announcing convictions of high-level Jamaat and
BNP officials, supporters of these organizations engaged in
large-scale violence and rioting that plagued Bangladesh for
several weeks in a campaign of intimidation directed
specifically toward Hindus.
This resulted in more than 100 deaths and hundreds of
injuries. Jamaat and Islami Chhatra Shibir activists reportedly
also set off bombs in the capital city of Dhaka aimed at
causing panic among ordinary citizens.
The Hindu community in particular was systematically
attacked, more than 47 temples destroyed, approximately 1,500
homes vandalized or burnt to the ground and in the aftermath of
this violence Amnesty International also noted that the
Bangladesh Hindu community was at extreme risk.
The Hindu majority--excuse me, the Hindu minority were
similarly targeted by Jamaat-e-Islami and Islami Chhatra Shibir
in the run-up to the elections during 2014 when an estimated
495 homes were also damaged and 585 shops were looted and 169
temples were vandalized, this according to the Bangladesh Hindu
Buddhist Christian Unity Council.
Parliamentarian Chhabi Biswas from the Netrokona-1 District
described to us in our meeting the warnings he received from
radical Islamists to stay silent during election violence
targeting members of the Hindu community.
As a result of his refusal to comply, his car was bombed on
December 24th of 2014 by BNP activists. Mr. Biswas narrowly
escaped death and fortunately is still serving as a member of
Parliament. And as recently as April 22, 2015 in the run-up to
the execution of Mohammad Kamaruzzaman at least three Hindu
temples were attacked in the aftermath of that.
Women are especially vulnerable as well during bouts of
anti-minority violence. Thousands of Hindu women have been
sexually assaulted or raped by members of Jamaat-e-Islami and
its affiliates.
According to first hand information received from the
women's wing of the Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity
Council.
Most of the current unrest can be traced back to the
coalition that began in 2001 of the BNP and Jamaat alliance
where even more significant violence targeting Hindus occurred.
Moreover, activity by militants and radical organization
such as Harkat-ul Jihadal Islami, a State Department designated
foreign terrorist group, and Jama'atul Mujahideen Bangladesh
significantly increased during the BNP regime. These
organizations are closely linked with Jamaat and have
collectively created an atmosphere of violence and
intimidation.
As long as Jamaat and other Islamist groups are allowed to
operate with impunity, Hindus and other religious minorities as
well as atheists remain in critical danger.
Hundreds of thousands of Bangladeshi Hindus have fled to
India over the past 13 years and potentially could obtain
citizenship soon, according to statements by the recent Indian
government.
Three weeks after I left Bangladesh, Avijit Roy, a
Bangladeshi writer and blogger, was killed in front of the
heavily guarded Dhaka Book Fair and only a mere 5 weeks after
that Washikur Rahman was also murdered by machete-wielding
assailants.
Many times, these--when any suspects are apprehended they
often state that they are acting under the orders of madrassa
officials or imams and they have no idea what a blog even is.
The attacks on Roy and Rahman are not isolated incidents
but rather reflective of a systematic attempt by radical
Islamist groups to undermine the nation's secular fabric.
It is my hope that--and those of Bangladeshis that the U.S.
will work to, number one, declare Jamaat-e-Islami and Islami
Chhatra Shibir a foreign terrorist group, any officials from
Jamaat that have engaged in severe violations as defined by
U.S. laws be denied entry into the U.S. and any of these
officials who may live in the United States currently should be
investigated.
The U.S. Government should strongly condemn all political
violence and attacks by Islamist groups and work constructively
with the current Bangladeshi government to ensure that these
attacks on religious minorities cease in order to bring--and
also bring justice to past victims of violence.
Finally, all future military and economic aid to Bangladesh
should be conditioned on the improved status for religious and
ethnic minorities including increased representation of
minorities in various levels of all--of Bangladeshi public
life, and this is especially true for the military and civil
service apparatus.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Kansara follows:]
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Mr. Chabot. Thank you very much.
We would ask people to restrain the clapping. We generally
don't do that in the committee hearings. Thank you.
Mr. Fleischli, we should have time for another
presentation. Dr. Ayres, we will probably wait until we come
back after the votes to go to you.
But Mr. Fleischli, you are recognized for 5 minutes. Thank
you.
STATEMENT OF MR. STEVEN D. FLEISCHLI, PRESIDENT, U.S.-
BANGLADESH TRADE AND RELATIONS ASSOCIATION
Mr. Fleischli. Chairman Salmon, Ranking Member Sherman and
members of the subcommittee, I thank you for the opportunity.
It is truly an honor to appear in front of you today.
I will be summarizing my written statement which I
requested be submitted for the record.
Mr. Chabot. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Fleischli. My name is Steve Fleischli and I live in St.
Louis, Missouri. I have travelled to Bangladesh for many years,
for the first time starting in 2007. I have walked the floors
of factories. I know many workers and I have got Bangladeshi
business associates.
In Bangladesh I have been integral in the development of
new factories, more than 5,000 jobs in the textile industry and
with exports of more than $40 million per year to the United
States and other countries.
Because I care deeply for the future of the U.S. and
Bangladesh relationship and believe in the potential for
continued growth in Bangladesh, I co-founded the U.S.-
Bangladesh Trade and Relations Association.
UBTRA, as we call it, is a new business organization that
advocates for human rights, workers' rights, political
accountability as a basic frame work for building and enabling
an economic environment for business in Bangladesh with the
United States. Bangladesh has made some progress in economic
development for sure.
Trade and international investment have played an integral
role in bringing industry to the country and spurring
unprecedented economic growth.
However, there is still a major need for improvement in
Bangladesh in the sphere of political accountability and labor
and human rights. Recent violence in Bangladesh resulting the
loss of life and property including many--including American
citizens speaks to this urgent need for reform and
reconciliation.
Just 2 days ago, the elections in three city corporations--
Dhaka North, Dhaka South and Chittagong--were marked by
violence, intimidation and vote rigging, as you noted earlier,
as well as a boycott from the Bangladesh Nationalist Party.
Allegations of irregularities were received from many
different polling station including in Chittagong, the second
largest city and the main seaport of Bangladesh and the port of
which I have two factories that I ran.
As a CEO of a textile company, I manage two factories
within that Chittagong export processing zone. My company
exported to multiple major U.S. discount, department and mass
merchant stores from 2008 until 2012.
Today, I have the opportunity to again invest in factories
in this same zone but because of the instability, after upwards
of 2 years of planning I will not make that investment quite
yet.
Similarly, the violence and perceived impediments to trade
and investment in Bangladesh have hampered UBTRA's ability to
grow its membership among U.S. and Bangladeshi businesses, in
particular with small and medium-sized enterprises.
Other global corporations with interests in both countries
as well as among stakeholders such as the youth and the
diaspora.
The basic tenets of UBTRA we applaud the recent approval by
the House of Foreign Affairs Committee, H.R. 1891, a bill to
extend the African Growth and Opportunity Act, the generalized
system of preferences, the preferential duty treatment for
Haiti and for other purposes.
WE support extension of the GSP program through 2017.
However, we strongly oppose that Bangladesh receive benefit of
that GSP until such a time that Bangladesh has fully
implemented all the required reforms and actions that have been
set forth in the Bangladesh Action Plan of 2013 provided by the
Obama administration.
UBTRA asserts that while improved trade relations are a
desirable goal, at no point in time should they supersede human
rights and worker safety initiatives.
UBTRA supports the right of Bangladeshi workers to work in
a safe and a healthy environment. We believe that a responsible
trade policy is one of the key aspects to preserving the rights
of Bangladeshi workers and citizens and seek to promote a
responsible trade relationship between the United States and
Bangladesh.
ULTRA is concerned about the election process in Bangladesh
which, as noted above, is plagued by political violence and
boycotts by prominent political parties. We believe the
formulation of a democratic and free society forms the backbone
for an efficient and responsible economy.
Regarding labor and human rights, in Bangladesh there is a
lack of respect for fundamental human rights that is a major
barrier to growth in the U.S.-Bangladesh business relationship.
Over the past decade, various highly respected human rights
organizations including Amnesty International, Human Rights
Watch, the Asian Human Rights Commission and ODHIKAR, a
preeminent human rights NGO in Bangladesh, have documented
extrajudicial killings, kidnappings, torture, election
interference and corruption.
Overall, ODHIKAR had documented 2,216 extrajudicial
killings that occurred between 2001 and 2013 in Bangladesh.
Closely tied to the broader human rights culture in the
country, our concern is for worker safety and rights. The 2013
Rana Plaza and 2012 Tazreen fire disasters tragically
highlighted the disastrous working conditions that are
pervasive in the Bangladeshi manufacturing sector.
A new report from Human Rights Watch details the continuous
violations of workers' rights, allegations of illegal anti-
union tactics and the inadequacy of reforms and company
interventions to date.
Just last week, Secretary Kerry and the U.S. trade
representative Michael Froman along with other high-level U.S.
Government officials and EU officials issued a statement
detailing the work that remains to improve labor standards and
working conditions.
In particular, both parties support efforts to continue
reforming labor laws in consultation with the ILO, complete all
factory safety inspections and register unions efficiently and
with transparency.
Unless significant changes are made in the handling of
labor organizers and civil society activists, the trade
relationship will suffer.
Mr. Chabot. Mr. Fleischli, are you close to wrapping up?
Because you are about a minute over now.
Mr. Fleischli. Okay. I get----
Mr. Chabot. You want to make a concluding statement or
something?
Mr. Fleischli. Yes, I will make a real quick conclusion.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you.
Mr. Fleischli. At the end of the day what UBTRA would like
to see happen is there has been a lot of talk lately from the
U.S. toward Bangladesh but there needs to be actual physical
action.
Our recommendations or ideas would be reducing FMF and IMET
funding--potentially, we currently fund police training of the
Bangladeshi police here in the U.S. as well as military
training here in the U.S.--continued suspension of the GSP
benefits, and any other military and trade sanctions that might
be possible to help change the direction of the current
situation of Bangladesh.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you very much.
Mr. Fleischli. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Fleischli follows:]
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----------
Mr. Chabot. And as I mentioned before, we have a series of
votes. We have three votes, which generally we are looking at
about \1/2\ hour before we would be back here.
If you want to go out in the hallway, we won't be in
session here again for about \1/2\ hour and as soon as we get
back, we will get started and we will go to you then, Dr.
Ayres, and then we will ask questions.
If there is no further business before votes, we will be in
recess here for about \1/2\ hour.
[Recess.]
Mr. Chabot. The committee will come back to order. I want
to thank everyone for being patient with us, and Dr. Ayres, you
are recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF ALYSSA AYRES, PH.D., SENIOR FELLOW FOR INDIA,
PAKISTAN, AND SOUTH ASIA, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS
Ms. Ayres. Thank you very much.
Chairman Salmon, Ranking Member Sherman, Congressman Chabot
and members of the subcommittee, thank you very much for the
invitation to appear before you on political and religious
extremism and Bangladesh. I am honored to be part of this
distinguished panel.
My comments summarize my more detailed written testimony
submitted for the record. Bangladesh has been in the news for
terrible reasons. On March 30th, Washikur Rahman was hacked to
death in Bangladesh's capital city, Dhaka.
The month before, Avijit Roy was hacked to death as he left
the Dhaka Book Fair. In 2013, Ahmed Rajib Haider was hacked to
death with machetes, also in Dhaka. All three were bloggers
targeted by radical Islamists for their atheist views.
These murders occurred in the context of political unrest
so I will offer a few words about the political and economic
situation before returning to discuss Islamic extremism.
Bangladesh's politics are hurting its economy. Bangladesh
is a country of 160 million people of whom approximately 90
percent are Muslim.
Bangladeshi politics are polarized at the best of times but
particularly in the last 2 years. In last year's national
election one major party, the Bangladesh Nationalist Party,
refused to participate, which resulted in a landslide
reelection of the Awami League. The BNP abstained because
elections were overseen by the Bangladesh Election Commission
rather than a neutral caretaker government.
All efforts to mediate by Bangladeshis, foreign diplomats
and United Nations failed. On January 5th this year, 1 year
after the election, the BNP began renewed public strikes
against the government, adding transportation blockades to its
tactics.
The BNP hopes that street pressure will achieve fresh
elections. But public strikes in Bangladesh often result in
violence. Since January 5th, more than 120 people have been
killed.
Contributing to the polarized situation, the BNP
chairperson, Begum Khaleda Zia, faces graft charges and was
effectively held under house arrest for weeks earlier this
year. The government has cracked down on the opposition and on
the media, and the ongoing international crimes tribunal,
seeking accountability and justice for the horrible crimes
committed during Bangladesh's liberation struggle in 1971 adds
further fuel to this combustible mix.
All of this is now hurting the economy. The IMF lowered its
economic growth forecast for Bangladesh to 6 percent, noting
that the resurgence of unrest in recent months is taking a toll
on the economy. A World Bank official told the Los Angeles
Times that the larger economic toll of political unrest could
be as high as $2 billion.
The garment industry, a major employer, is facing a 30 to
40 percent downturn in orders by one estimate. This is all
linked to the instability rising from extreme political
polarization--Islamist violence in Bangladesh.
Bangladesh has come a long way since 500 bombs exploded
simultaneously in nearly every district in the country in
August 2005. Successive governments have focused on tackling
terrorism and have been largely successful. Still, three
disturbing developments bear watching.
First, the Hefazat-e-Islam emerged as a force in 2013 with
austere demands that included a blasphemy law with the death
penalty, punishment for ``atheist bloggers'' who insult Islam,
prevention of men and women from what they called free mixing
and ending of what they called an anti-Islam women policy.
The second concern relates to the dispossessed Rohingya
people. There have been reports in Bangladesh and in India that
the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba, responsible for the Mumbai
attacks of 2008, have been trying to recruit Rohingya refugees.
Third, the dramatic spread of the self-proclaimed Islamic
State into South Asia and the announcement last fall of a new
Indian subcontinent subsidiary of al-Qaeda have captured
attention.
In January, Bangladeshi authorities arrested four men
suspected of Islamic State membership. Last September, a
British citizen of Bangladeshi origin was arrested in Dhaka
under charges of recruiting for the Islamic State.
Recommendations for U.S. policy: I will provide four, and
more detail about my recommendations is in my written
testimony. First, support the requested increase in resources
focused on democracy and governance programs in U.S. assistance
to Bangladesh and consider supplementing further.
U.S. assistance to Bangladesh has been concentrated in
health, food security and climate change. The resources
available to provide democracy and governance support are small
compared with the outlays for these three categories. They are
also very small compared to our support for these categories in
Pakistan.
Two, continue and expand the growing U.S.-Bangladesh
counterterrorism and security cooperation. This has been a very
successful area. Bangladesh seeks our assistance, is trying to
do more and can benefit from our continued support.
Relatively small amounts of assistance can go a long way,
particularly on topics like community policing, anti-money
laundering, counter terrorist financing and strengthening
capacity within the justice system.
Three, deepen security consultation with India about
Bangladesh. Regularly consultations covering security matters
in South Asia should be continued and enhanced, especially
given the developments discussed above, which India watches
closely.
And finally, four: Continue looking for ways to incentivize
political reconciliation in Bangladesh. Finding a way to bridge
the chasm between Bangladesh's two major political parties and
a deep personal enmity that drives their differences had proven
Sisyphean.
The United States should look for positive incentives to
emphasize more robustly such as the prospect of a Millennium
Challenge Corporation threshold program should Bangladesh reach
a better situation of governance and law and order.
We should also continue to impress upon the Bangladesh
government as well as the opposition the enormous opportunity
costs to the country from its ongoing political stalemate. It
is a country with a spirit of entrepreneurship and huge
unrealized promise. A better political environment would
position Bangladesh for great things.
Thank you very much, and I look forward to any questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Ayres follows:]
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----------
Mr. Chabot. Thank you very much, and now members of the
panel will have 5 minutes to ask questions.
I will begin with myself, but I am going to use part of my
5 minutes to give the opening statement that I would have given
had we not turned immediately to the panel. But this is part of
my 5 minutes so they can start the clock.
Bangladesh has long represented a moderate secular nation,
as has been stated, which has worked hard to pull itself out of
extreme poverty.
It has become an important security partner for the United
States in the fight against terrorism and Islamic extremism in
South Asia as well as a partner on humanitarian assistance,
peacekeeping operations and maritime security.
However, ongoing political turmoil has plunged the nation
in a political security crisis. While some have said that in
Bangladesh this is politics as usual, I am afraid we are
witnessing a troubling course of events.
When I was in Dhaka before the national elections last
year, I met with both Sheikh Hasina and Khaleda Zia, and I had
met with them before previously when I had been there a number
of years prior.
I met with both of them at that time, separately both
times, and it was evident at that time that both sides sat at
an impasse, which is still the case, unfortunately.
Sheikh Hasina insisted provisions were in place to conduct
a fair election, and we know that didn't really happen.
Following this past week's city council elections, which are
now marred by evidence of irregularities and intimidation, I am
concerned about the roiling violence that has increased since
the beginning of the year and what this all means for
Bangladesh's democratic tradition.
I believe Bangladesh has great potential, as the chairman
mentioned in his opening statement, but it has much standing in
the way of its continuing progress, as we have heard here this
afternoon. I want to thank the witnesses for their testimony
this afternoon. It has been very helpful to us. The things that
the panel members have heard, we will convey to our colleagues
who didn't have the opportunity to be here this afternoon. Also
through our staffs, we will make sure that all the other
members of the Foreign Affairs Committee are able to benefit
from the testimony that we have heard here this afternoon and
their written testimony will be made available as well.
Now, for just a couple of questions: There have been a
string of high-profile murders of journalists, as was
mentioned, and bloggers as well as mass killings of commuters
in bus bomb attacks.
Outside of these headline-grabbing events, what does the
situation actually look like on the ground in Bangladesh and
how is it impacting the everyday life of the average person in
Bangladesh? If you could all be very brief, I will just go down
the line, and maybe start with you, Ms. Curtis, if I could.
Ms. Curtis. Thank you. Yes, the political violence that
occurred in January and February connected to the opposition
protest demonstrations was very disruptive to the economy, to
people's ability to get around. And what was particularly
disturbing were the petrol bombings on the buses, which caused
hundreds of innocent bystanders to become burned or, you know,
were killed.
So this was particularly disturbing, I think, to the
average Bangladeshi that this was occurring.
With regard to the murders of the bloggers, I think this
provokes a different kind of concern among the Bangladeshi
people. The Bangladeshi people are proud of their Bengali
traditions and they have been a largely peaceful, moderate, and
pluralist society.
So when extremists are trying to disrupt that environment
in Bangladesh, I think people become very concerned. But I
would just point out there is a difference between those
murders, which were by Islamist extremist groups, and the
petrol bombings, which occurred as part of the political
violence that was as a result of the opposition protests.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you.
Rather than go down the line, I have less than a minute so
I would never have a chance. I wanted to get to at least one
more question.
Let me give you another question and I will go to you, Dr.
Riaz, and then down the line on this one. Is there any way that
we can encourage the Awami League and the BNP to have
constructive dialogue about alleviating the tension between
those parties?
What role could the United States or any of the neighboring
countries--India or China or Burma or anybody else--play to
facilitate these reconciliations? I know that may sound kind of
pie in the sky. We would probably all like that to happen. Is
there any possibility of that happening, Dr. Riaz?
Mr. Riaz. Thank you.
First of all, this is a problem that needs to be solved by
Bangladeshis. It cannot be solved by outsiders. Having said
that, the United States and the international community has a
role to play.
Particularly, I think it will default and is a missed
opportunity for Bangladeshis--you know, wasted; because there
was a relative calm and that opportunity should have been
taken. One more thing is you have mentioned and I think it is
important to have the Indians having a role.
India has a role and a responsibility because it is the
largest democracy and a neighbor; and also for security
concerns because in Bangladesh, which is completely--you know,
if the security situation deteriorates it is not going to help
India in any way or fashion.
So with those in mind, I think this is important to press
upon both parties that if it continues to be like this,
continued violence perpetrated by parties, it is not going to
help Bangladesh in terms of achieving its potential and they
need to do it and that is why the interlocutors should be both
domestic and international community.
And what the United States can do--is to encourage other
parties such as India, such as the European Union to be
involved and engage with the parties for coming up with a
solution.
Mr. Chabot. Okay. Thank you.
I will come back to the others if we go a second round. But
I don't want to take up all the time. So I will now yield to
the ranking member, Mr. Sherman.
Mr. Sherman. Thank you.
Everyone in this room is dedicated to the people of
Bangladesh, one of the poorest countries in the world and so
there is a natural tendency in focusing economic policy to
focus on what is good for Bangladesh.
Ms. Curtis advocated more imports for Bangladesh and more
investment in Bangladesh by the United States, that investment
basically being American companies figuring out how to make a
big profit by creating a lot of jobs in Bangladesh rather than
in the United States.
And so I would like to be a voice to point out that for
every--that we have a five to one trade deficit with
Bangladesh--that Germany exports three or four times as much to
Bangladesh as we do and that we would have tens of thousands of
more jobs in the United States if we had a balance trade
relationship.
I expect that trade relationship to get much larger and I
hope that the lopsided nature of it gets much smaller.
Mr. Fleischli, am I--Fleischli, is it true that in
Bangladesh they have free trade zones where labor unions are
restricted?
Mr. Fleischli. I am not 100 percent sure if they are
restricted from the zones. We operated in the zone.
Mr. Sherman. You operate in the zone?
Mr. Fleischli. Yes. We have organizations----
Mr. Sherman. I am told that labor unions are actually
prohibited in those zones. You don't know whether they are or
not?
Mr. Fleischli. I am not sure if they are or not.
Mr. Sherman. But you know your own factories, of course,
don't. Are you aware of any labor union operating in the zones?
Mr. Fleischli. There is labor organizations that I have
heard of.
Mr. Sherman. What?
Mr. Fleischli. There is labor organizations that I have
heard of operating within the zones.
Mr. Sherman. Well, labor organization is very different
from a labor union. Dr. Riaz, the average parent in Bangladesh,
if they want to send their kid to a secular school, is that
provided by the government free? Are there fees? Or do you have
to pay for your own student's books?
Mr. Riaz. First of all, this is the major achievement in
the past decade of Bangladesh, that they are provided education
to everybody. Anyone. As a matter of fact, one of the major
achievements is bringing the female children to schools. This
is free.
Mr. Sherman. And it is free of any fee. What about books?
Are the books free?
Mr. Riaz. It is free, free for everybody.
Mr. Sherman. And the books are free?
Mr. Riaz. The books are free and over the last years we
have seen that the books are provided to the students on time,
which is--which is an excellent achievement.
Before the school starts they do get the books, so this has
been an achievement of the government, and over the years, over
the decade actually, there are the females' stipend provided,
which encouraged females to be in the schools. So significant
achievement.
Mr. Sherman. I would point out that one focus of our
foreign aid could be to provide those books to the Bangladeshi
government.
That would give us some influence over content without
going all the way to an American politically correct content
and that it is--it is very hard to steal a book. Well, I mean
you can--it is very hard for a corrupt official to make money
stealing books as opposed to money.
Doctor, Bangladesh is a low-lying country. Sea levels are
likely to rise. How big a problem is that?
Mr. Riaz. It is a major problem. It is a major problem
because of the environmental challenges. Bangladesh is at the
forefront of the battle of the environmental disasters that we
are anticipating and it was not the making of Bangladesh.
I mean, it is the front line of the environmental battle
that the world should be fighting instead of leaving Bangladesh
to fight alone.
Mr. Sherman. How much of its arable land is it likely to
lose if we see a half a meter rise in sea levels?
Mr. Riaz. There are variations in terms of the
predictions--some even predicted up to one-third, but at least
10 to 13 percent of the low-lying lands might be lost if the
sea level rises and, you know, the global warming, which is--
which would be a disaster.
But let me take this opportunity just briefly that this is
a battle of everyone's, here or there. It is not only a battle
of Bangladesh.
Mr. Sherman. Dr. Riaz, I only get 5 minutes. I am going to
move on to another question, if that is okay. My colleagues
have heard me talk with passion about the--with the--about
climate change.
Bangladesh suffers from a dysfunctional two-party system.
The climate of repression is worsening. Is there any way short
of a military takeover to resolve this situation?
Mr. Riaz. Military takeover is not a solution.
Mr. Sherman. No, I didn't say that that was a solution.
Mr. Riaz. So they have to. I mean, I am--at the end, I am
optimistic to that extent that the Bangladeshis are resilient.
Bangladeshis have faced adverse situations and that they have
the ingenuity to come up with the solution. However, given the
circumstances they will have to come up with solutions.
Likelihood? If I say that--would I put my money on it at this
point? No.
But there is no way without having a reconciliation,
conversation, negotiation and that the international community
needs to help. Again, they cannot impose a solution but they
can facilitate and that if it is not facilitated, history tells
that, obviously, this is not going to end in anyone's favor.
The loser will be Bangladesh.
Mr. Sherman. Thank you.
Mr. Chabot. The gentleman's time has expired.
We will go ahead into a second round now, so I will yield
to myself for 5 minutes. Oh, I am sorry. I didn't see you
there, Tulsi. My bad. Hawaii, Ms. Tulsi.
Ms. Gabbard. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thanks all
of you for being here.
Follow up on Mr. Sherman's question, what--given the
political impasse that we are facing what is the likelihood of
a military intervention or takeover and if that were to occur
how would you see that? Given the dynamic now how would you see
that play out? For whomever would like to answer.
Ms. Curtis. I will just say quickly I think right now the
chances of the military getting involved are pretty low and I
think that is because of the previous experience when they did
take the reins of power in 2007 for nearly 2 years and their
image suffered from allegations of corruption.
And so I think this has made them less likely to want to
step in unless, of course, things deteriorate significantly or
violence increases tremendously. Then perhaps they would
consider it. But I think right now they are not showing any
signs of getting involved.
Ms. Gabbard. With regard to the--I know a couple of you
spoke about the Islamic militancy or Islamic extremism that is
there. To what extent do these groups have broader influence
over the disaffected Bangladeshis or the broader community
there?
Mr. Fleischli. I will speak personally from my own
experience. You know, this was part of my oral testimony that I
couldn't get to.
You know, the issue that is at hand right now in Bangladesh
is the situation is so chaotic and there is so much unknown and
there are so many people that feel lost and discouraged that
Bangladesh is turning into basically a breeding ground, if you
will, for terrorist activity--ISIS--and God forbid, you know,
if ISIS were to grab hold of 170 million people, you know, and
that is at a very key interchange in South Asia for the United
States of America.
Ms. Gabbard. Yes.
Mr. Fleischli. And so as an American citizen, outside of
business--as an American citizen that scares me to death. It
absolutely scares me to death and it scares me for my friends
and whom I would call family--that I have extended family in
Bangladesh because it is so easy. It is so easy when you are
in--falling on tough times and you are discouraged to be
recruited. So it is concerning.
Ms. Gabbard. Mr. Kansara, I know you were there and you met
with some of the moderate Muslim leaders there. If you could
share your experience both on how the situation is really
affecting the day to day lives but also with the moderate
Muslim community is doing about this increased threat.
Mr. Kansara. Thank you. In conjunction with Mr. Chabot's
question, based on my observations of only being in Dhaka--
unfortunately I could not travel to other parts of the country
because it was just simply unsafe--Dhaka, the streets of Dhaka
were completely empty.
The traffic--there was virtually no traffic and if anybody
has been to Dhaka they told me that that is a complete anomaly.
It would take you hours to travel from one mile to another as
opposed to the minutes. And so businesses were directly
affected.
Shops were completely shut down and you could--also of
concern was that 60 million students, because of the hartals,
were prevented from taking their exams.
That is almost disenfranchising economically an entire
generation of Bangladeshis. And so this was a complete
irresponsibility on the parties involved.
With regards to the moderate Muslim leaders whom we met
with, one gentleman named Imran Sarker, who is a prominent
secular activist and he is a practicing Muslim, he described
his trepidation with increasing Islamisation of Bangladesh
society saying that Islam had been imposed upon them as opposed
to a free choice of choosing religion and how much religion
should be a part of their daily lives.
And the public school textbooks were also increasingly
showing signs of radicalization by referencing Islamic
followers of Islam over other religions and this was--had
direct implications for communal harmony and religious freedom.
And in an interview that he gave at the Business Standard,
an Indian publication, he said that he is actually now under
threat by Islamist forces. So moderate Muslim leaders are also
under threat by the same--by the same perpetrators of violence
against Avijit Roy and Washikur Rahman.
Ms. Gabbard. Thank you. Dr. Ayres, I think you had wanted
to add some comment on this.
Ms. Ayres. I just wanted to say that I do think it is
probably difficult to ascertain what percentage of the general
population has a more radical view, and certainly Bangladesh
has not been a radical country. It has been a place of great
moderation.
But the real issue here is that it only takes a few people
to cause great chaos. So if you look at the kind of explosions
that took place in 2005, you have a small cell that can affect
something that is hugely consequential for the country.
The murders of these three bloggers that have just taken
place, you know, the people who have been arrested are small
cells of two and four people, again, who don't seem to be part
of any sort of larger organized groups, sort of small groups
who are, you know, directed by their cleric. That is the trial
going on right now.
So, again, I do think there are people who are overall
largely moderate but there are small cells of people that we do
need to worry about.
Ms. Gabbard. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back and,
again, my apologies for the oversight.
We will now go into a second round. When I was last in
Bangladesh, which was shortly before the elections--on my way
back, actually on the plane, I believe--I do a blog every week
and I happened to do it on Bangladesh since I had just been
there. Interestingly enough, it got more hits--more people were
interested in that particular blog than anything I have done in
about 5 or 6 years since I started the blog. Every week I do
it, and so I am not sure exactly why that was, but it was a
fact.
There are a lot of people, obviously, in Bangladesh--about
half the population of the U.S. squeezed into a country about
the size of Iowa or even a little smaller than Iowa--so you can
still read that if you would like to.
It is on my blog. All the old ones are on there now. I do
have an official blog and a political blog, but I keep that on
the political blog. It is there if you ever want to go back and
read what I thought about this 2 years ago.
The thing that struck me shortly before the election and my
understanding was the polling was showing that Khaleda Zia was
likely to win the election, but ultimately, you know, they
couldn't come to an agreement and it seemed to be over the
issue of a caretaker government.
A lot of times in the past, there have been caretaker
governments that took over the elections that were held, so
that they could make sure that one side or the other wasn't
being unfair with the other side.
It seemed to work relatively well, but this time that
didn't happen and so we see what we saw after the elections. I
was actually a bit surprised that the violence wasn't even more
after the election.
In any event, it is what it is. What role did that
caretaker government versus not having one have in this
election and what we ended up with? Dr. Ayres, would you want
to comment on that?
Ms. Ayres. Well, that, certainly, has been the most
important point of dispute over the course of the last nearly 2
years because the disagreement over how to carry out the
election of January 5, 2014. The run-up to that election,
actually, this disagreement was well known.
In fact, that was the period where you saw a lot of
Bangladeshis trying to bring both parties together to discuss.
There is a quite famous--famous among Bangladeshis--transcript
of a telephone conversation that took place.
Yes, you probably read it at the time where, unable to even
agree among the two leaders of the political parties who should
call whom first--really intensive enmity there.
So they have continued to focus on this as the point of
disagreement when in fact, I mean, if they were to reach an
agreement on some mechanism, whether it is an institutionalized
Bangladesh election commission that adheres to all forms of
free and fair elections or a caretaker government, I mean,
ultimately it doesn't matter what they choose as long as they
agree and the elections are carried out in a free and fair and
transparent manner.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you.
Mr. Fleischli, let me turn to you, if I can at this point.
Sometime--well, a few years ago--I don't remember the exact
date, but two of the major items that were in the world news
were the Rana Plaza garment factory collapse, when over 1,100
people, I believe, were killed, another 2,500 were injured and
these were mostly women is my recollection. And the other was
the Tazreen fashion factory fire and it was over 100--I think
it was 117--that were killed and another 200-plus were injured
in that.
And there was a lot of attention of the condition that a
lot of these factories there were under and the unsafe things.
And the argument here was U.S. companies, you know, if we
are doing business and importing progress and we have a, if not
a legal responsibility, a moral responsibility in making sure
that people that are making these products, which are
ultimately coming here to the United States and purchased by
American citizens that we have a responsibility to make sure
that it is safe.
And you could argue who knew what when and I am sure that--
all kinds of lawsuits involved in that. But what improvements
or what changes were made as a result of those two horrific
occurrences?
Mr. Fleischli. Well, I think initially and even up until
today you have got two major groups that were formed. You have
got the alliance and the accord. One is on the European side
and one is on the American side.
You know, those two entities are made up of basically the
largest retailers and the largest brands in the world. It took,
I think, gathering that power, which is huge buying power, and
they import billions of dollars from Bangladesh to be able to
start the path to change and bring recognition to what is going
on on the ground in Bangladesh.
You know, as a CEO in Bangladesh back around--between 2007
and 2012, approximately, you know, we did business with the
largest retailers. Our internal safety regulations were very
strict.
You know, a lot of the safety and the security regulations
that are--that are--that we had in place mirrored and/or
exceeded--I won't name the retailers but the largest retailers
that are out there--and luckily, because of me being American
and me being face to face with the buyers all the time and the
customers and listening to that their concerns are, I was able
to always ensure that when I was at the factory I could
physically inspect.
You know, I was more of a hands-on kind of CEO as opposed
to the desk CEO. So I would walk the floors all the time. I
would make sure that the fire extinguishers were there.
I would make sure that the doors were open, that we had
plenty of escapes and, you know, that we didn't have floors
overloaded and, you know, people couldn't trip on things on the
floor.
And it was very, very important for me to do that because
our business counted on it and the people's lives counted on
it, and that was pre-Tazreen and Rana Plaza.
So when those two events occurred, it was absolutely
devastating, and I can feel their pain. You are right, 90-plus
percent of the employees--the workers were female.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you very much. My time has expired.
Ms. Gabbard.
Ms. Gabbard. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will just ask one
follow-up, just following up on the counter terrorism subject
matter.
I understand that Bangladesh's Rapid Action Battalion has
been effective in counter terrorism efforts but that they have
also been known to be used by the government to attack
political opponents.
So I am wondering if you can comment on how you can reach
both objectives of curtailing the abusive power but also
recognizing if this is an effective asset to counter these
extremist elements. How do you see that playing out?
Mr. Fleischli. If you don't mind, I will just make one
quick comment. As it pertains to whether it is the Rapid Action
Battalion or the military or even just the police, you know,
the police itself, generally speaking from my understanding, is
trained and funded here in the U.S., so by U.S. taxpayer
dollars.
A lot of the military is as well. The RAB, I believe, is
done through the U.N. and heavily funded by the U.S. I wanted
to give you an example.
I was leaving a hotel in Chittagong, the Peninsula Hotel in
Chittagong, 1 year and it had in my van on the way to the
factory two people from one of the largest retailers in the
world--senior executives.
And no more than 5 minutes after we left--and there was
traffic then, the roads were absolutely packed and it does take
an hour to get a mile--one of the members of RAB, and you can
clearly see them--they are in a blue uniform.
It says RAB on the back of them and I have been told that
they are the elite of the elite out there--took and beat the
living you know what out of a normal ordinary citizen because
he crossed the street at the wrong time.
The buyers that were sitting next to me were, like, what
the--was that, and I--I will apologize, you know, let us
discuss it a little bit later, and I will tell you it wasn't 3
months later that those buyers were barred from travelling to
Bangladesh anymore.
And then so that is a--it is a very serious concern and I
indirectly, we, as Americans, have an impact directly in how
that happens.
Ms. Gabbard. Impacted. Yes. Dr. Riaz.
Mr. Riaz. The most----
Mr. Chabot. Just a clarification. They were barred by the
Bangladeshi government?
Mr. Fleischli. No, no, no, no, no. Barred by--barred by the
corporation and--yes. Yes. For their safety and security,
correct.
Mr. Riaz. In terms of RAB's record both--we will have to
take both these things, right--their success in terms of
dealing with, you know, terrorism but also their human rights
records is very poor--absolutely abysmal that we need to take
into account and given the circumstances, the most important
element in accountability, unless this force or for that matter
any force, is accountable and that you cannot tie in simply.
You know, one institution cannot be accountable when the
whole system is not accountable and this is how it is, you
know, in some ways they are connected to each other. Overall
point--that is why an accountable governance is necessary that
will ensure that this kind of heavy-handedness or the RAB's
poor record of human rights, abuse can be addressed through an
institutional arrangement.
And if I may, just quickly, going back to what Dr. Ayres
had mentioned in regard to this, there is a difference. The
point is caretaker government or the election commission is
mostly to have an institution that can protect your rights to
vote in a free and fair manner.
Caretaker government is not a solution. Solution is to
build an institution which Bangladesh has not succeeded yet.
Thank you.
Ms. Gabbard. Thank you. Dr. Ayres.
Ms. Ayres. Just a quick comment on the question of the RAB.
The United States government has been interested in trying to
help RAB carry out internal reforms and through the U.S.
Department of Justice program has helped support a project to
build an internal investigation capacity there.
So there are programs that the United States can support to
help Bangladesh reach more capable processes internally and
help solve some of these problems. We have also supported
police training programs.
I visited the National Police Academy in Rajshahi a few
years ago when I was serving in government, and we have
supported programs that helped train them to focus more on
community policing instead of thinking about, you know, use the
stick first.
Rather, treat the community as those you protect and serve
and eschew the use of violence first. So there are methods we
can use in support to try to bring about reforms.
Ms. Gabbard. Right. Dr. Riaz, your point is well taken,
though, about accountability. If you don't have an institution
set up where there is, you know, transparency and justice and
accountability then there is still far too much room for abuse.
Thank you.
Mr. Sherman. Mr. Kansara, people say that as you move
further east from the Middle East that Islam gets more moderate
and that in any case Bangladeshis are moderate in their
approach to Islam.
Can you explain what has driven the recent ethnic
persecution of Hindus and how do--and does the Hindu community
in Bangladesh back one party or the other?
Mr. Kansara. So answering the first part of your question
initially, it is fairly well known that the Hindu community by
and large will support the Awami League because the Awami
League has policy platforms that are set to roll back the
Islamisation of the country--the encroachments of Islam in the
constitution.
They have made it a party platform to roll back those
restrictions on other religious communities.
Now, with regards to moderate Islamic movements within
the--within South Asia or Bangladesh in particular,
specifically with regards to Jamaat, the Jamaat-e-Islami is a
Muslim Brotherhood-linked organization. The have direct ties.
In fact, I believe Mohamed Morsi had visited Bangladesh
while he was president of the Muslim Brotherhood and had met
with Jamaat leaders there. And their brand of Islam is very
similar to that of the Wahabis and the Salafis and they are
simply--they are simply interested in creating an Islamic State
in Bangladesh.
It is part of their charter and it is part of their
organization's methodology and the attacks that they have
perpetrated on the citizens of Bangladesh and in conjunction
with either banned terrorist organizations or other
organizations like Islami Chhatra Shibir are set to intimidate
the average Bangladeshi into being subjugated to that form of
thought.
Mr. Sherman. My own images of Jamaat is at the fringes of
thought in Bangladesh. Do these extremist views have widespread
support or are we talking about Hindus living in fear of a tiny
extremist groups that means them harm?
Mr. Kansara. Based on our observations and interactions
with Hindu community leaders in Bangladesh, Jamaat and Jamaat's
ideology is growing amongst the general population and I would
say that Jamaat--it was palpable the financial power they have
in Bangladesh.
There is a--there is a list I found online before this
hearing of over 20 financial insurance institutions, banks and
several other power-wielding organizations that Jamaat funds
and finances and that money, I don't think, is coming from the
farms of Bangladesh.
I think it is coming from foreign sources like Saudi Arabia
or even Pakistan's ISI.
Mr. Sherman. I yield back.
Mr. Salmon. Thank you.
Mr. Fleischli, I am going to ask my question directly at
you. As some of the witnesses have noted, the World Bank
estimates that the unrest in Bangladesh has had a cumulative
negative effect of nearly $2 billion in just the last few years
alone.
So will companies continue to do business in Bangladesh if
violence continues? That is my first question. Second, what, if
anything, has the business community done to engage with the
government to relay these concerns?
And then has the government been responsive? And then
finally, if trends continue what will the business community
do? Thank you.
Mr. Fleischli. Thank you for the question.
You know, I--to step back for a little bit, I saw a huge
growth in the business from '07 to 2012. Most of that
transferred from China and other countries. Following--after
2012, it started to dwindle down. The past 2 years it is
dropping dramatically.
Mr. Salmon. How do we keep that growth rate at 6.2 percent
GDP growth rate with that dwindling?
Mr. Fleischli. I--to be honest, I have no idea.
Mr. Salmon. Do you believe the numbers?
Mr. Fleischli. No.
Mr. Salmon. Okay. Go on.
Mr. Fleischli. Because I have been witness of a number of
retailers that have moved mass amounts of orders outside of
Bangladesh--places like Africa, Vietnam, Thailand, back to
China again where it is three, four, five times more expensive
to make something.
But they are doing that because of security. They are doing
that for safety. They are doing that to ensure that they are
going to get the goods.
Right now, with the situation that is at hand, you can't
even get product from Dhaka down to Chittagong where it needs
to ship. It is almost impossible, and there are so many
factories in Dhaka. There is lots of factories in Chittagong.
But Chittagong relies on Dhaka for a lot of materials,
right, while Dhaka relies on Chittagong to get the containers
out.
So unless things change, you are going to see a continual
drop and, unfortunately, that goes back to the whole issue of
people feeling like they are lost and disconcerted and
everything because you have got two parties that are warring
with each other and there is no answers that are coming up.
Business is going away. Factories are closing.
Retail shops are closing because they have nothing to sell
in their shops anymore because they can't get goods from, you
know, up the road. I fear, unfortunately, that if there are not
immediate steps taken to improve the situation in Bangladesh
that Bangladesh will not be the growth opportunity that I know
it can be and that it once was. And that is scary.
Mr. Salmon. So other than your testimony today, what is the
business community doing to relay those concerns to the
government? Is there a dialogue going on?
Mr. Fleischli. As far as I know, they discuss with people
in the different NGOs within Bangladesh. My goal, as part of
UBTRA, is to help engage some of those organizations, bring
them in as membership and help guide them through the process
and hopefully if we can all build together a big enough group
of support maybe we can make that change. Maybe we can help.
Mr. Salmon. Is there a very robust chamber of commerce--the
American Chamber of Commerce?
Mr. Fleischli. It is not very robust.
Mr. Salmon. No?
Mr. Fleischli. As far as I know. It is--I mean, it is
there. It is in place. I don't know that it is that active.
Mr. Salmon. In the dialogue that the business community has
had with the government, is it responsive at all? Do they give
you any reassurances that they are trying to work on it or
moving in the right direction?
Mr. Fleischli. You hear many things.
Mr. Salmon. Mostly excuses or----
Mr. Fleischli. It is mostly just talk. Yes, we are making
these improvements but you never see the improvements. You
know, I would--I would question the legitimacy of how many
factories have actually passed inspections that they say have
passed inspections and I would question that legitimacy.
Mr. Salmon. So this is a really tough one. On a scale of
one to ten----
Mr. Fleischli. That is why I am saying being on the ground
and actually seeing things is so important--to be there and see
what is going on and experience what is going on, and not just
read what the media says or what the government says or
anything like that because being on the ground is a lot
different.
Mr. Salmon. On a scale of one to 10, how optimistic are you
that things will turn around, both in the near term and the
long term? And the long term is probably hard to predict but--
--
Mr. Fleischli. Yes. Near term? I would like to be more
optimistic but, you know, it is--you are probably 50/50. I
mean, it is one way or the other and I think really the only
way that you are going to get a teeter in the right positive
direction is if we, as the United States, step in and play a
bigger part in helping bring both parties of the government, or
I should say the government and the opposing party, together to
clean the slate and start fresh and get free and fair elections
up and running and turn Bangladesh back into a democratic
society. It is not. You know, it is not a democratic society.
It is falling apart.
Mr. Salmon. When I showed some transparency in what we were
going to discuss in this hearing, as we are required to do, you
know, some tried to tell me I was all wet and I was moving in
the wrong direction and that things are wonderful and that the
growth rate is phenomenal and that everything is under control
and, you know, what we are hearing today is that is not
accurate, is it? I mean, Ms. Curtis, what do you think?
Ms. Curtis. Yes. First, I just wanted to quickly comment
there is a U.S.-Bangladesh Business Council here at the U.S.
Chamber of Commerce. Ms. Ayres and I were invited to speak
about 1\1/2\ years ago when there were a lot of political
tensions in the run-up to the January 2014 elections. At that
time I would say there was about maybe 15 U.S. business
representatives with interest in Bangladesh that were willing
to join in a letter expressing their concerns about the
political environment and how it was affecting business. So I
think there is serious interest.
Mr. Salmon. Did they do that?
Ms. Curtis. I think they did, in the end. I don't know----
Mr. Salmon. I would love to get a copy of that letter if
there is any way to do that. I mean, that would be really
helpful for my purposes.
Ms. Curtis. Okay. We can follow up with that.
Mr. Salmon. That would be really helpful. Because I think
that, you know, it is all about due process. I think that it is
important for the business community to convey that this is
hurting you more than anybody, Bangladesh, and that if things
don't turn around there will be a pretty--like you said, Mr.
Fleischli, a pretty substantial exodus of economic
opportunity--business--and that will only make things work.
Mr. Fleischli. To be honest, I think the only thing that is
really keeping any kind of growth aspect, if you want to call
it that, in Bangladesh from an export standpoint is the fact
that some form of GSP or tariff consideration is in place with
Canada and Europe and it is very significant. That is really
the only thing that is a saving grace right now because----
Mr. Salmon. Is it possible to get--you know, insure your
product because of some of the security concerns?
Mr. Fleischli. You can insure your product, sure. Yes. I
mean, that is definitely a possibility. It is not necessarily--
--
Mr. Salmon. The rates are probably going to go through the
roof.
Mr. Fleischli. Well, it is not necessarily the security of
the product. It is am I going to get the materials on time to
make the product, to get it out the door on time to meet the
ship dates that the retailers are looking for.
Mr. Salmon. Right.
Mr. Fleischli. Because if you don't meet those ship dates--
--
Mr. Salmon. You lose.
Mr. Fleischli [continuing]. Consistently----
Mr. Salmon. Yes, you lose.
Mr. Fleischli [continuing]. You lose the business and it
goes to somebody else and if that consistently happens within a
single country that you are importing from it is time to look
elsewhere, and I--you know, when I first started running the
factories in 2007 and we started building a new factory in
2008, beautiful brand new factory in 2008, and we grew the
business, you know, from $0 to $40 million in 3 years is not--
you know, it is not an easy thing to do.
And then to see what is happening today and to see the mass
exodus of the businesses is just discouraging. It really is,
and it is saddening because, you know, the workers in
Bangladesh are so happy--they are so happy to have jobs.
They are so happy to work, and that the situation is such
that, you know, they are the ones that are getting impacted the
worst.
Mr. Salmon. Yes, Dr. Ayres?
Ms. Ayres. A very quick supplement to that. If you look at
the economic data both for the garment industry and Bangladesh
overall, despite all the political unrest, in the last year--
last year's Bangladesh fiscal year actually saw a growth in the
garment industry by about 14 percent.
Now, that is not going to be the case for this year and we
are going to start seeing that data come in. So that does
explain why if you look historically the growth hadn't been
ticking down.
Mr. Salmon. Got it.
Ms. Ayres. It is now beginning to tick down so we are
seeing that now.
Mr. Salmon. That is very helpful.
This has been a wonderful panel and I--did you have another
question? I was just--I was just going to say that if there is
any closing comments that any of you would like to make,
questions that haven't been asked, points that need to be made,
then you are more than willing to make them--I'm more than
happy to have you make them.
Mr. Kansara.
Mr. Kansara. Thank you. In addition to the question that
Mr. Sherman asked about the parties and I would say that the
Hindu community also noted the severe security failings that
had taken place by the Awami League government as well as by
police forces in protection in the run-up to the election of
2013 and 2014 as well as Washikur Rahman and Avijit Roy were
killed in broad daylight with police very close nearby.
Avijit Roy was killed at the Dhaka Book Fair and police
were within walking distance away. And when a machete-wielding
assailant is killing you it takes time. It is not--it is not a
gunshot, and therefore the security forces failed. So should--
the Awami League should not simply rely on the Hindu community
as vote bank because that is not their role.
Their role is to protect all Bangladeshi citizens if they
are in the government and the same with the BNP or any other
party that it is in power.
Mr. Salmon. Any other comments?
Mr. Fleischli. Just a quick one. On Avijit Roy, there is
actually a picture that I saw on the Internet where Avijit Roy
was on the ground and the event was occurring and there was a
police officer standing right there doing nothing--absolutely
nothing.
Mr. Salmon. Thank you. Ms. Curtis, did you have one----
Ms. Curtis. Yes. I just wanted to make one last comment. It
was raised earlier, the suggestion of declaring the Jamaat-e-
Islami a foreign terrorist organization and I think that would
be extremely unhelpful.
The Jamaat-e-Islami has participated in the electoral
process. They have tended not to receive a great deal of votes.
I think it was 4 to 5 percent in the last election that they
ran in in 2008.
But the point is that, certainly, those guilty of violence
should be prosecuted but there is simply no indication that the
Jamaat-e-Islami as a political party has engaged in terrorism--
systematic terrorism.
Mr. Salmon. Thank you. That is helpful. Dr. Ayres.
Ms. Ayres. A very brief ending comment: For many years I
have always believed that Bangladesh provides a kind of living
counterfactual to the problems that we see in a country like
Pakistan.
They, obviously, separated in 1971. But in the intervening
decades Bangladesh has gone on to deliver so much for its
citizens. It has better human development indicators on almost
every count than Pakistan does--in fact, better than India in
many counts as well.
So for me this is a huge opportunity and an opportunity
cost. I believe it is important for the United States to stay
engaged and not use sanctions as a means of trying to teach a
lesson but rather to try to shape the way we engage with
Bangladesh and impress upon them how much potential they have
and how we want to support that.
Mr. Salmon. Would all of you agree with that idea? Okay.
That is very helpful. You know, I want to say--I am about
to conclude the committee--but this committee hearing was not
intended to just pile on.
It really is about a constructive, better way, and it is
not to cast aspersions on a country but to liberate a people.
It is about lifting, not pulling down. I mean, that is what we
are trying to accomplish here.
We are not trying to just throw rocks and criticize. What
we are about is trying to shed some light on what the truth
is--what is the truth beyond the spin-zone--what is the truth
and what can America do to help improve the lives of the people
of Bangladesh and that is what this is about.
So thank you so much for your patience and thank you for
your testimony, and without objection the hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 4:10 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
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