[House Hearing, 115 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] [H.A.S.C. No. 115-28] THREATS TO SPACE ASSETS AND IMPLICATIONS FOR HOMELAND SECURITY __________ JOINT HEARING before the SUBCOMMITTEE ON STRATEGIC FORCES of the COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES meeting jointly with SUBCOMMITTEE ON EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS, RESPONSE, AND COMMUNICATIONS of the COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY [Serial No. 115-12] HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ HEARING HELD MARCH 29, 2017 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 25-094 PDF WASHINGTON : 2017 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office, http://bookstore.gpo.gov. For more information, contact the GPO Customer Contact Center, U.S. Government Publishing Office. Phone 202-512-1800, or 866-512-1800 (toll-free). E-mail, [email protected]. COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES SUBCOMMITTEE ON STRATEGIC FORCES MIKE ROGERS, Alabama, Chairman TRENT FRANKS, Arizona, Vice Chair JIM COOPER, Tennessee DOUG LAMBORN, Colorado SUSAN A. DAVIS, California DUNCAN HUNTER, California RICK LARSEN, Washington MO BROOKS, Alabama JOHN GARAMENDI, California JIM BRIDENSTINE, Oklahoma BETO O'ROURKE, Texas MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey MIKE COFFMAN, Colorado COLLEEN HANABUSA, Hawaii BRADLEY BYRNE, Alabama RO KHANNA, California SAM GRAVES, Missouri Steve Kitay, Professional Staff Member Leonor Tomero, Counsel Mike Gancio, Clerk ------ COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY Michael T. McCaul, Texas, Chairman Lamar Smith, Texas Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi Peter T. King, New York Sheila Jackson Lee, Texas Mike Rogers, Alabama James R. Langevin, Rhode Island Jeff Duncan, South Carolina Cedric L. Richmond, Louisiana Tom Marino, Pennsylvania William R. Keating, Massachusetts Lou Barletta, Pennsylvania Donald M. Payne, Jr., New Jersey Scott Perry, Pennsylvania Filemon Vela, Texas John Katko, New York Bonnie Watson Coleman, New Jersey Will Hurd, Texas Kathleen M. Rice, New York Martha McSally, Arizona J. Luis Correa, California John Ratcliffe, Texas Val Butler Demings, Florida Daniel M. Donovan, Jr., New York Nanette Diaz Barragan, California Mike Gallagher, Wisconsin Clay Higgins, Louisiana John H. Rutherford, Florida Thomas A. Garrett, Jr., Virginia Brian K. Fitzpatrick, Pennsylvania Brendan P. Shields, Staff Director Kathleen Crooks Flynn, Deputy General Counsel Michael S. Twinchek, Chief Clerk Hope Goins, Minority Staff Director ------ SUBCOMMITTEE ON EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS, RESPONSE, AND COMMUNICATIONS Daniel M. Donovan, Jr., New York, Chairman Tom Marino, Pennsylvania Donald M. Payne, Jr., New Jersey Martha McSally, Arizona James R. Langevin, Rhode Island John H. Rutherford, Florida Bonnie Watson Coleman, New Jersey Thomas A. Garrett, Jr., Virginia Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi Michael T. McCaul, Texas (ex (ex officio) officio) Kerry A. Kinirons, Subcommittee Staff Director Moira Bergin, Minority Subcommittee Staff Director/Counsel C O N T E N T S ---------- Page STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS Donovan, Hon. Daniel M., Jr., a Representative from New York, Chairman, Subcommittee on Emergency Preparedness, Response, and Communications, Committee on Homeland Security................. 2 Garamendi, Hon. John, a Representative from California, Subcommittee on Strategic Forces, Committee on Armed Services.. 3 Rogers, Hon. Mike, a Representative from Alabama, Chairman, Subcommittee on Strategic Forces, Committee on Armed Services.. 1 WITNESSES Allen, ADM Thad W., USCG (Ret.), Member, GPS Advisory Board, Former Commandant, U.S. Coast Guard............................ 6 Nimmich, Hon. Joseph, Former Deputy Administrator, Federal Emergency Management Agency.................................... 9 Shelton, Gen William L., USAF (Ret.), Former Commander, U.S. Air Force Space Command............................................ 4 APPENDIX Prepared Statements: Allen, ADM Thad W............................................ 45 Donovan, Hon. Daniel M., Jr.................................. 29 Nimmich, Hon. Joseph......................................... 57 Payne, Hon. Donald M., Jr., a Representative from New Jersey, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Emergency Preparedness, Response, and Communications, Committee on Homeland Security................................................... 31 Rogers, Hon. Mike............................................ 27 Shelton, Gen William L....................................... 33 Thompson, Hon. Bennie G., a Representative from Mississippi, Ranking Member, Committee on Homeland Security............. 32 Documents Submitted for the Record: [There were no Documents submitted.] Witness Responses to Questions Asked During the Hearing: [There were no Questions submitted during the hearing.] Questions Submitted by Members Post Hearing: [There were no Questions submitted post hearing.] THREATS TO SPACE ASSETS AND IMPLICATIONS FOR HOMELAND SECURITY ---------- House of Representatives, Committee on Armed Services, Subcommittee on Strategic Forces, Meeting Jointly with the Committee on Homeland Security, Subcommittee on Emergency Preparedness, Response, and Communications, Washington, DC, Wednesday, March 29, 2017. The subcommittees met, pursuant to call, at 2:02 p.m., in Room HVC-210, Capitol Visitor Center, Hon. Mike Rogers (chairman of the Strategic Forces Subcommittee) presiding. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE ROGERS, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM ALABAMA, CHAIRMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE ON STRATEGIC FORCES, COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES Mr. Rogers. Good afternoon. I want to welcome you to this hearing on ``Threats to Space Assets and Implications for Homeland Security,'' held jointly by the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Strategic Forces and the Homeland Security Subcommittee on Emergency Preparedness, Response, and Communications. I want to start by thanking our witnesses for being here and taking the time to prepare. I know it takes a lot of time to prepare for these and make your expertise available. We have an expert panel with us regarding topics of space and homeland security. Though testifying in their personal capacities, they each have decades worth of experience with the issues being discussed here today. Our witnesses are General William Shelton, retired Air Force and former commander of U.S. Air Force Space Command; Admiral Thad Allen, retired Coast Guard and member of the GPS Advisory Board and former commandant of the U.S. Coast Guard; and the Honorable Joseph Nimmich, former deputy administrator, Federal Emergency Management Agency and retired rear admiral, U.S. Coast Guard. I also want to thank Chairman Donovan and Ranking Member Payne for joining us in support of this hearing. We have heard extensively from Department of Defense and intelligence community officials regarding the potential foreign threats to our space systems. The threats are real, serious, and only getting worse. Unfortunately, talking about a conflict extending to space isn't science fiction anymore and the impact of that threat extends beyond the military. It extends to our way of life here in the United States. There likely isn't a person in this hearing room, nor within the entire Capitol campus that hasn't utilized the services provided by satellites at some point today. For instance, aside from DIRECTV and DISH satellite TV, which allow me to watch Alabama play football on Saturdays no matter where I am--Roll Tide--the Global Positioning System, or GPS, is probably the most widely known space asset and for good reason. While I think many recognize that GPS powers their navigation in their cars and cellphones, they may not know or may not recognize the support it provides to financial transactions, farming, shipping, public safety, environmental monitoring, and a host of other areas. The American public may also not realize that GPS is built and operated [by] the United States Air Force. Potential adversaries recognize our dependence on it. I guarantee you that. And GPS is one of many important space systems. We spend time in the Armed Services Committee understanding what the loss of space would mean to the military and that we need to protect and defend those assets. But what does a loss of space mean to our economy and our financial institutions, our agricultural activities, our transportation and infrastructure? Today our witnesses will help us understand the importance and role of space regarding our homeland security and our emergency preparedness. The public deserves to know what is at stake when we are talking about the risk of loss to our access to space. It is my sincere hope that a conflict never reaches into space, but conflict has extended across air, land and sea, and cyberspace. Hearings like this are needed to make sure we are aware of the consequences we now face if it ever does happen and ensure that we are ready for it. I will now turn to Chairman Donovan for any opening statement he may have and then to Mr. Garamendi today, standing in for Ranking Member Cooper, and Mr. Payne after that. So Chairman Donovan is recognized. [The prepared statement of Mr. Rogers can be found in the Appendix on page 27.] OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DANIEL M. DONOVAN, JR., A REPRESENTATIVE FROM NEW YORK, CHAIRMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE ON EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS, RESPONSE, AND COMMUNICATIONS, COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY Mr. Donovan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to all of our witnesses. I would like to thank you, Chairman, for holding this hearing today and including my subcommittee in this very important and timely discussion. In today's world, our lives are connected more than ever before and this is because of our space-based capabilities, specifically satellites. Without satellites, we cannot make financial transactions, communicate with cellphones, navigate from one location to another, fly airplanes, watch television, or effectively prepare for and respond to natural disasters or, God forbid, terrorist attacks. Space-based capabilities, like global positioning systems, satellite communications, and remote sensing, not only help our military operations, but have made it safer for our first responders to effectively and efficiently respond to a crisis or emergency. Nearly 5 years ago, my district, which includes Staten Island and parts of Brooklyn, was devastated by Superstorm Sandy. This perfect storm caused dozens of New Yorkers to lose their lives, thousands of homes destroyed or damaged, and for millions of dollars being used and spent on reconstructing communities, including my own. The preparedness and response efforts directed at Superstorm Sandy, while not perfect, were much better than previous major disasters, like Hurricane Katrina. Satellite capabilities were part of the reason first responders and government agencies had the information needed to respond decisively and quickly. Satellites are being used to enhance our Nation's preparedness and response efforts, especially when critical infrastructure is damaged, destroyed, or overloaded. I saw this firsthand during Superstorm Sandy. Prior to Superstorm Sandy making landfall, the Federal Emergency Management Agency [FEMA] used the storm tracking predictions from weather satellites to pre-position equipment and resources all along the east coast. Additionally, FEMA used satellite imagery to expedite the disaster declaration process and provide assistance to impacted areas. During this response effort, teams deployed satellite communications equipment and high-throughput satellite terminals to provide voice and internet connectivity to first responders and survivors. These are a few of the growing reasons why satellite capabilities are key to our homeland security. While we need to continue to look for ways to incorporate space-based capabilities into our preparedness and response efforts, we need to be cognizant of the threat to those space systems. There are numerous threats, whether intentional or naturally occurring, that could damage or destroy our satellites and significantly reduce the lifesaving capabilities they provide for our first responders. I am particularly interested in learning more today about how our Nation's preparedness and response efforts could be impacted if our space capabilities were diminished. I want to thank our distinguished panel again for testifying this afternoon, and I look forward to learning more about what we in Congress can do to help ensure our Nation's military and first responders don't lose these vital capabilities. Mr. Chairman, I yield back the remainder of my time. [The prepared statement of Mr. Donovan can be found in the Appendix on page 29.] Mr. Rogers. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Garamendi for 5 minutes. STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN GARAMENDI, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM CALIFORNIA, SUBCOMMITTEE ON STRATEGIC FORCES, COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES Mr. Garamendi. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Chairman Donovan. Thank you for doing the joint hearing. I think it is extremely important. I know that our chairman has spent a great deal of time bringing us information on communication systems and the vulnerabilities as well as the potential that they have, both, mostly in the military area, but also as it extends beyond that. We do know there is enormous vulnerability on the military side, as the chairman pointed out. We have also spent some time looking at the domestic vulnerability, mostly as it has occurred on another subcommittee on which I am on, which is the Coast Guard and Maritime. And the Coast Guard has had in the past the navigational portfolio of the Federal Government. So we have looked at this and now bringing together these issues is extremely important and to look at the continental United States, Alaska, and Hawaii and other areas in the context of satellite communication and the necessity for a backup system or how to deal with all the benefits that those satellite communication systems bring to us from GPS and beyond is extremely important. I thank you for doing this. Mr. Cooper was called away to a meeting, and I was the only option available at the time he left, so he put me in this position. [Laughter.] Thank you very much. Mr. Rogers. Thank you. And Mr. Payne's statement will be taken for the record when he arrives. So we will turn to our witness panel, and we will start with General Shelton. And, General Shelton, before you start, I understand you have got some guests with you today. General Shelton. Actually, I do. I have got my daughter and her husband and my two grandsons. Mr. Rogers. Welcome to the hearing. Your granddaddy's an American hero. All right. General Shelton. Thank you, sir. Mr. Rogers. The floor is yours. STATEMENT OF GEN WILLIAM L. SHELTON, USAF (RET.), FORMER COMMANDER, U.S. AIR FORCE SPACE COMMAND General Shelton. Chairman Rogers, Chairman Donovan, and Mr. Garamendi and distinguished members of the committees, thank you for your invitation to appear today to discuss threats to our space assets and the implication of those threats to our homeland security. I believe the vast majority of our American citizens are not conscious of these threats and are therefore blissfully unaware of the impacts on our way of life should conflict extend to space. I commend your committees for taking up this subject. There is a host of satellites that provide services essential to modern life in the United States and across the planet. In fact, according to the latest edition of the Space Report published annually by the Space Foundation, the global space industry is a $325 billion enterprise. Satellite-provided services have become analogous to electricity, a utility we really take for granted. Most of us don't need to, nor want to, know where or how our power is produced, but we expect our local power company to continuously provide the power we need to heat and cool our houses and run our myriad electrical devices. Space services are now a utility as well. Few Americans understand that fact. In contrast, potential adversaries are well aware of our dependence on satellites. Continuous combat operations since Operation Desert Storm in 1991 have provided an unparalleled learning laboratory for them. Not surprisingly, nations are now actively testing methods to deny us continued use of space services during conflict. They have developed a full quiver of these methods, ranging from satellite signal jamming to outright destruction of satellites via a kill vehicle, such as successfully tested by China in 2007. The pace of these counterspace efforts appears to be accelerating and the impact of the use of counterspace likely would be felt by all sectors of the space community. A few examples of existing counterspace weapons and their impacts: Global Positioning System and communication satellite jammers can deny use of essential navigation, timing, and long- distance communication services. Advanced anti-satellite weapons capable of reaching all our orbital altitudes, including the orbits of our critical missile warning and strategic communication satellites, can destroy a satellite and create dangerous orbital debris. And the higher the altitude of engagement, the longer that debris will remain in orbit. Ground-based lasers can temporarily blind various optical sensors on satellites and other nations are looking to increase the laser power to destructive levels. Our space capabilities also are reliant on ground stations and cyber connectivity. The ground stations scattered around the world monitor satellite health, receive mission data from these satellites, and send operating commands to those satellites. Without the ground stations, the satellites would not be capable of accomplishing their intended purpose. The possibility of physical attacks on these satellites is certainly a concern. Equally concerning in this information age is the possibility of cyber attack. With cyber activity occurring at the speed of light, damage can be done very, very quickly. And attributing the activity to a particular actor is often very difficult and time-consuming. The environment of space has fundamentally shifted then from the ethereal sanctuary of the past to the increasingly crowded and contested environment of today. Broad agreement on this fact, however, has not produced the architectural change decisions to reduce those vulnerabilities. A recent analysis by the Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation [CAPE] team in the Office of the Secretary of Defense found that space research and development [R&D] is at a 30-year low. The space industrial base is eroding due to this low level of investment. At a time when the space industry's engineering talent and innovation should be put to work, decisions to initiate new programs that are responsive to the threats have not been made. Understandably, industry is unwilling to invest internal R&D funds until the government makes those decisions. Because satellites have limited lifetimes, the lack of a decision to make needed changes to our architectures due to the changed space environment is a de facto decision to continue the status quo with no additional meaningful protection for our critical space assets. The last administration began initial steps toward space protection. The relatively new Joint Interagency Combined Space Operations Center has the potential to be a catalyst for how operations in a contested environment must evolve. Experimentation and eventually realistic operational exercises will produce revelations about operating in this new era of space. But exercises alone won't be enough if the systems in space are not built with prediction and mission resilience as key performance requirements. There simply will be no levers to pull to defend. To this point, the CAPE analysis found that of the $6 billion added for additional space protection in the 2016 President's budget, approximately 80 percent is currently allocated to non-satellite programs. Warfare in space is in no one's best interest. And the level of the United States dependence on space means we have the most to lose. As we consider space capability protection options in space, in cyber, and on the ground, we must consider whether our actions are stabilizing or destabilizing in the international arena. Every action we contemplate should cause us to ask ourselves if said action dissuades and deters potential adversaries from nefarious activity. We urgently need sponsors and funded study work on what constitutes deterrence in the 21st century and what recommended steps would increase our deterrent posture. We need to think our way through this maze, which requires that we deter use of space and cyber weapons while continuing to deter use of nuclear weapons. The potential consequences are just too great for us to merely hope for the best. Many of us remember the tag line from the 1979 movie, ``Alien'': ``In space, no one can hear you scream.'' From my perspective, apparently no one on earth can hear you scream about space vulnerabilities either. Many have banged the gong very hard since 2007, but 10 years of innumerable studies and policy debates have not produced tangible improvements in our space protection posture. If you know the armed burglar is on the front porch, you don't wait until he is already inside to take action, yet that is precisely our posture today. I thank the two committees for delving into this subject, and I look forward to answering your questions. [The prepared statement of General Shelton can be found in the Appendix on page 33.] Mr. Rogers. Admiral Allen. STATEMENT OF ADM THAD W. ALLEN, USCG (RET.), MEMBER, GPS ADVISORY BOARD, FORMER COMMANDANT, U.S. COAST GUARD Admiral Allen. Thank you. Chairman Rogers, Chairman Donovan, Mr. Garamendi, I want to thank you very much for having us here today. Let me first associate my remarks with General Shelton. I take objection to nothing he has said and wholeheartedly endorse his comments related to space. I will make mine additive so we aren't duplicative here at the hearing today. And what I would like to do is focus on the civil users segment of GPS. I serve on the Position, Navigation, and Timing [PNT] Advisory Board to the GPS EXCOM [Executive Committee]. That is the governing entity for GPS in the country, that is co-chaired by the Deputy Secretary of Defense and the Deputy Secretary of Transportation. The PNT Advisory Board is a subject matter expertise group that provides them recommendations. Many of my comments today and recommendations are grounded in conversations that have been held in public fora associated with that advisory committee and reflect my peers and our collective view of the threats and vulnerabilities and what to do about them moving forward. What I would like to do is talk about vulnerabilities related to GPS in a little bit more detail and offer a strategy on how we might want to proceed that has been well-discussed, at least among my peer group. We need to understand in addition to the comments made by yourselves and General Shelton the ubiquity of GPS chips and receivers. They basically permeate all critical infrastructure. This is an issue for homeland security. And in addition to the examples already given, it is the phasing of electrical generation distribution and down to the microsecond as you noted in financial transactions. The father of GPS is generally regarded as Dr. Brad Parkinson, a professor emeritus at Stanford who I work with on the PNT Advisory Board. And he, together with our peers, have come up with a strategy that I would like to go over with you today that talks about the vulnerabilities and where we might go with them. Let me just quote Dr. Parkinson first, though: ``The first prerequisite for GPS-based position, navigation and timing is a receivable, clear and truthful (truthful implies full integrity) ranging signal, and the second is satellite geometry for the user who cannot see enough of the sky.'' The second challenge really requires a denser constellation of satellites and I will talk about the larger, global, navigational satellite system later. But in regard to the five challenges, the challenges related to availability, let me just talk about five challenges that we have put forward. First is adjacent spectrum interference. Power signals in adjacent bands to GPS can drown out the signal denying use. In some cases, this is caused by FCC [Federal Communication Commission] authorized users where the implications of licensing decisions are not understood or issued with insufficient testing. There is natural interference from phenomena such as solar flares. There is inadvertent, natural or man-made jamming. These are cases where use nearby can cause spurious or destructive emissions. There is collateral interference. These are privacy devices individuals use to shade where they are at. They can interfere with GPS signals as well. And then finally, deliberate jamming or spoofing. In looking how to deal with these threats to GPS, my body recommends, and I recommend personally in my personal capacity, a strategy of protect, toughen, and augment. I would like to break that down to three segments for you, sir. First on protect, we need to protect the signal. We need to protect the signal and the delivery system. We need to create a deterrent to illegal jamming. We need to control the manufacture and web sale of jammers, which is pretty unabated right now. We need to improve jamming detection. We need to be able to localize and pinpoint jammers. And to the extent that we can eliminate jamming altogether, we should try and do that and that means to be able to find and fix inadvertent or illegal jamming. And finally, where we have reason to believe that laws have been violated, we need to prosecute offenders and set up consequences for these actions. Regarding toughening, we need to toughen receivers. There is a number of ways we can do that. Some receivers can be toughened by merely shading through barriers any nearby interference. There is something called signal beam steering by antennas where you basically separate the beams, but it is expensive to toughen receivers this way and it creates a huge expense for ordinary users. We can integrate GPS with other navigation tools, such as inertial systems. There is always the option to increase GPS signal power, but that is not likely due to expense. GPS was created with a very low signal decades ago without the thought that it would ever be as ubiquitous as it is now and the signal would be put at risk. And finally, you can separate the GPS signals to allow more effective and discrete processing. The third PTA, protect, toughen and augment, is augment and by that means to augment the signal itself. One way is to start looking at the international global navigation satellite systems. And that would be Galileo, GLONASS, the Russian system, and the Chinese BeiDou system, and see where we can create compatibility, interoperability, or interchangeable systems. There also is something called pseudolites or pseudo- satellites which are ground-based equivalent performance of satellites. However, they are limited in their range and they cause frequency interference as well. And finally, eLORAN [Enhanced Long Range Navigation]-- eLORAN is a terrestrial system. It was a system largely in use before GPS was created. It is a high-power, low-frequency signal that can follow the curvature of the Earth. It can also penetrate urban canyons where there are problems with GPS. In 2009 when I was the commandant and the new administration came in, there was a decision taken to effect cost savings and we terminated the upgrade of the existing LORAN-C [LORAN Revision C] or any development requirements for eLORAN, contrary to domestic agreements that had been made and international agreements that we would pursue this. We have been in an 8-year hiatus and now there is active discussion about whether eLORAN is a competent terrestrial backup to GPS. My counsel to these committees are that the time is over for talking about this. We need to make a decision and move on. And I would be happy to answer any questions. [The prepared statement of Admiral Allen can be found in the Appendix on page 45.] Mr. Rogers. I thank you for that statement. And now we turn to Mr. Nimmich for his opening statement. STATEMENT OF HON. JOSEPH NIMMICH, FORMER DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR, FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY Mr. Nimmich. Good afternoon, Chairman Rogers, Chairman Donovan, and Mr. Garamendi and the other distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify about the critical role of satellite technology and preparing for, responding to, recovering from, and mitigating both natural and man-made disasters. The use of satellites and satellite-derived data is mission critical for emergency management operations. Emergency managers require extensive, timely, and accurate information to make critical lifesaving and life-sustaining decisions. The decision-making information comes from a multitude of sources with satellites being one of the most critical. Satellites, both national and commercial, inform almost every aspect of emergency management, allowing responders to act faster, smarter, to preserve the safety and security of the American public. The National Weather Service depends on weather satellites to monitor and collect information about evolving weather systems that are the primary cause of natural disasters. These include tropical systems, tornadoes, flash floods, winter storms, dust storms, volcanic eruptions, forest fires, and geomagnetic space storms to help forecasters predict future weather events and increasing accuracy. I am going to deviate from my comments to talk about what just was occurring last night and will occur today in the Midwest, Texas, and Louisiana. Those tornadoes were predicted 3 days ago by our weather services. That allowed emergency managers to be prepared for, put extra staff on, and to alert the American public in those areas at a much better and more lifesaving capability. Emergency managers require these short- and long-term forecasts to carry out their missions. Advanced knowledge of incoming storms, as I just discussed, allows leaders and emergency managers to pre-position assets in a safe location to provide assistance to mitigate the impacts of both river flooding and storm surge, the two most life-endangering events. Satellites provide critical communication and coordination for response operations. Data and voice communications are the nervous system of an effective response. During disasters, commercial communications are often severely overloaded. In spite of the overtaxed lines, national satellite communications ensures emergency responders are able to continue to communicate and maintain connectivity at all times. Emergency managers across the country rely on the national communications capability during the most severe events. Satellite data preserves one of the most valuable resources in emergency management: time. Time, and more specifically advance warning, is the difference between life and death in many events. Local emergency managers can order evacuations based on solid predictions supported extensively by satellite data. Emergency managers and city planners utilize satellite data in developing and maintaining critical evacuation routes. While evacuations are synonymous with hurricanes, new satellite technology is also improving predictive capabilities to support flash flooding and evacuations and tornado events. Evacuation planning for man-made catastrophes is also ongoing. This advance knowledge allows FEMA to pre-position assets, build accurate staffing models, and more precisely allocate limited resources to where they are most needed and rapidly adjusts to ever-changing situations. The ability to pre- position resources and make real-time adjustments is critical to an effective emergency response that saves lives. Satellites are also critical to local, State, and Federal recovery missions. Satellite imagery and geospatial analysis has enabled FEMA to accurately determine house-to-house damage assessments and expedite millions of dollars of rental assistance to disaster survivors. This capability reduces the cost to the taxpayer as damage assessments can be derived from satellite imagery at a fraction of the cost of ground inspections. In some cases, up to 90 percent less costly. A single satellite image can cover hundreds, even thousands of square miles and provide cheaper and timelier data to deployed teams, especially in remote areas. I cannot leave my comments allowing you to think that without satellites there would be no response to disasters. Every level of emergency management prepares for emergency response where there is limited access to information, including satellite information and communications capability. But to be very clear, responses to emergencies with degraded satellite information will be less timely, less capable, less efficient, and less effective. Satellite supports every aspect of emergency managers' efforts to prepare for, mitigate against, respond to, and recover from disasters confronting our Nation. It is critical that the Federal Government continue to invest in these capabilities and ensure their reliability if we are to support the American people in their time of greatest needs. Thank you for this opportunity to testify today, and I look forward to answering your questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Nimmich can be found in the Appendix on page 57.] Mr. Rogers. I thank all of you for those opening statements. I now recognize myself for questions. General Shelton, I think I know the answer to this, but for the record, are we moving as a nation at the speed we need to in order to address the threats you laid out in your opening statement? And if not, why not? General Shelton. Congressman, let me take you back to 2007. I was the commander of 14th Air Force at Vandenberg. We were monitoring the Chinese ASAT [anti-satellite weapon] test in progress. And I was in my operations center, and I watched that successful engagement. And I don't remember if I said this out loud, but I pushed back from the table, and I said the world just changed because that is not a simple engineering feat. And yet, here we are 10 years later and we don't really have a whole lot to show but a pile of studies for our protection posture. And I really think there are three things here. I think there are some policy decisions that need to be made. Our policy is actually pretty permissive, but we need to make those policy decisions at the highest levels to commit to protecting our space assets. There are also funding constraints. You know, I mean, that is the age-old story for all of you, but we do have via sequestration, via some other priorities, some constraints on how much money is available to spend on satellite protection. And we have also been part of this ``one more study'' kind of attitude. Well, that may not be the perfect answer, so let us just do one more study. And meanwhile, time marches on. And as I said in my written statement, since satellites have fixed lifetimes and you need to plan for the death of a satellite, a decision not to move forward is a de facto decision to maintain the status quo with no additional protection. Mr. Rogers. Mr. Nimmich and Admiral Allen, in your experience, does the left hand know what the right hand is doing in the United States Government regarding space threats and dependence? For instance, the Department of Defense knows that there are threats and are working to address them. However, to what extent does the Department of Homeland Security and FEMA and other appropriate organizations, to what extent are they aware and are working to ensure that they can execute their missions when necessary? Admiral Allen. Sir, with all due respect I would say left hands and right hands. As we move forward, I would just underscore what General Shelton said regarding the one more study. We have become very effective at miring problems in this country. We have governing processes that don't have a clear lead agency for developing requirements where the programs of record should be for funding. And in my view, until we start to address the overall structure of how we govern, these things are going to continue to have a discussion over whose base is the funding going to come from, who should lead the study, how do we develop requirements. And if you put on that gaps created by changes of administration, this drags on and on and on. And I think it is time, if we are going to be serious about it, we have to look at the governing process that can produce answers more quickly. The government has always had a problem in adjusting and deploying technology. But at the rapid rate of advancement, especially with the capabilities of our adversaries, we are in a stern chase and following further behind unless we revisit how we are actually going to make these decisions. Mr. Nimmich. Sir, my experience in DHS [Department of Homeland Security] would indicate that they don't own them, therefore they look for somebody else to be able to ensure their operability. As Admiral Allen pointed out, I think one of the challenges you have got with satellite and space-based capability is the fact that there is no specific critical infrastructure section inside DHS. And the structures, the way they look at critical infrastructure, it is embedded across all of the different critical infrastructure. Therefore, it becomes harder to focus on. But I would tell you that it is, again, a consumer mentality that we are consuming the capabilities that are provided by others, both commercial as well as national assets. But we are expecting those people that provide them to provide the reliability and the defenses against them. Mr. Rogers. I thank you. The Chair now recognizes Chairman Donovan. Mr. Donovan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Admiral Allen you pointed out something we in Congress could do about the jamming devices. You have mentioned many challenges, the three of you, the entire panel. What are some of the steps that you think Congress should take to address some of the challenges that each of you have pointed out during your testimony? Admiral Allen. There are a number, but let me just focus on a couple that would almost appear to be simple. The first one is easy access to jammers via the internet. A lot of these actions are illegal, but hardly enforceable. This requires a unity of effort across government. We have just spoken about that. It also requires a level of cooperation between the departments and agencies and the independent regulatory authorities, such as the FCC and the FTC [Federal Trade Commission], moving forward. But the whole issue of widely available jammers, lack of prosecution or consequences associated with their use, and then the ability for those to be in the hands of either folks that are involved in criminal activity or terrorism, is a clear vulnerability that we should address. And if I were to focus anything specifically, it would be that. And the second one is adjacent spectrum inference which is another issue regarding signal-to-noise ratio and whether or not GPS signals can be disrupted. But the availability of jammers, I think, is something we have to address. Mr. Donovan. General. General Shelton. Yes, sir. This is going to sound incredibly naive to you, but I think the executive branch and the legislative branch could get together and agree on a strategy and a way forward and then move out and execute. I don't see any other way. There has to be some broad agreement here in the whole of government as we move forward. Mr. Donovan. Thank you, sir. Mr. Nimmich. Sir, I think one of the things when we look at FEMA and the challenges we face is try to eliminate single points of failure. We are talking about jammers and signal strength, but the potentials of a geomagnetic storm taking out entire swaths of satellite capability exists. I think that we do need to look at a backup system of some sort, whether it be LORAN-E or some other capability. But we have put all of our eggs in one basket and that basket is fragile. Mr. Donovan. That was actually my next question to you. In the case of a disruption in our capabilities, our first responders have backup methods in order to efficiently or as efficiently as they can--I know you mentioned in your testimony one of the things if the systems go down is going to be the time in which they could react or the time in which they get advanced notice of those tornadoes that you spoke about. Do we have backup systems in place? Mr. Nimmich. So responders, first responders and emergency managers responded to disasters before there was satellite capability. Satellite capability has enhanced and improved all of the responses as you have pointed out, Chairman. And what we do is we continue to ensure that we have the proficiency in those pre-satellite capabilities. If GPS goes down, can we use the national grid and train our people both at the State, the local, and the Federal level to be understand what the national grid is and we exercise those. Cascadia Subduction Zone, 2015, national level exercise, used national grid capability. We look at the redundant capabilities that HF allows us in communications, HF frequency communications, high-frequency communications. That has been tested all the way down to the amateur radio operators who are some of probably the most proficient and the most wide-ranging across this country. In that same exercise, NORTHCOM [U.S. Northern Command] worked with FEMA to be able to have members of the national amateur radios actually engage with us and provide information that came up. So there are systems that allow us. They are not as efficient. They are not as effective. They don't take away duplication of effort, so there would be a slower response no matter how you look at it, sir. Mr. Donovan. And your recommendation would be that we invest in a backup system? Mr. Nimmich. I think anything that provides the ability, not just from the response side, but the recovery piece. And I think we mentioned in the chairman's office the fact that most of the individual assistance, you are well aware in Staten Island, the number of people that were either left homeless or didn't have resources, the Federal Government provides a certain level of resource up to about $30,000. That is all done electronically. And if GPS fails and there is no timing mechanism, then those transfers don't go into their accounts and now we worry about life-sustaining capability, not just lifesaving capability. Mr. Donovan. I thank you all for your testimony and your response to my questions. Thank you. I yield the rest of my time, Chairman. Mr. Rogers. Thank the gentleman. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Garamendi. Mr. Garamendi. The members of your subcommittee, Mr. Chairman, are well-aware of where I am likely to take this conversation to eLORAN. And so my apologies to all of them for once again raising this issue. For Mr. Donovan and your committee, you may not have had the opportunity to be so bored as I carried on about this issue. But we have been at this some time, principally from the Coast Guard and Maritime Subcommittee side of it, which actually happens to be in the Homeland Security Department and so there is interaction there. General Shelton, you laid out very well in your testimony the overarching situation we are faced with, the dependence on satellites, the vulnerabilities that they have. And we have heard that repeatedly from you and from your successors in our subcommittee. So I really want to go to Admiral Allen here and the rest of you can chime in along the way. Your testimony is a little different than most of what we have heard. You actually are suggesting solutions. And I believe, General Shelton, you have told us very clearly that it lies in decisions that have to be made. And just running through the recommendations that you have made, Admiral Allen, I am going--protect the signal, jammers, there ought to be a law. There ought to be a law. It ought to be illegal, and certainly that would come under the Homeland Security Committee. And there are four different recommendations here. Some are different, but they basically say there ought to be a law. If you have a jammer, it is illegal to use it and it is illegal to manufacture and sell it and you are going to get prosecuted. That is something we can do. And I must tell you, it is very important. Well, since my cellphone is actually working on the internet here, I could probably order up a jammer legally and probably put this entire committee out of commission with that jammer. Toughen receivers, these are rather important things, all of which can be done. Physical barriers to the receivers, whomever that receiver is that has that, they should be aware and they should deal with it. Augmenting the signal gets me to where I really want to go. And this is something that we have dealt with many times in committees, in various committees actually. Some of these have all been discussed, but here we really need a decision. And last year in the transportation legislation, we passed out of this House a decision to move to the eLORAN system and to go with a public/private partnership to make that happen. It did not survive the conference, unfortunately. I think people who know me know that I am going to try again on this one. But basically it sets up a mechanism for the home security secretary and the commandant of the Coast Guard to put together a request for proposal for a public/private partnership that would build out the eLORAN system. The eLORAN system, and, General Allen, I am going to leave it to you to describe because I could not do it nearly as well as you could, could you please describe how an eLORAN system could be built in the United States? Admiral Allen. Yes, sir. Mr. Garamendi. And then how that might be able to be accomplished. Admiral Allen. Let me describe what LORAN is. LORAN is a hyperbolic aid to navigation, a signal that is transmitted, high-power, low-frequency, follows the curvature of the earth. A second signal is transmitted. When you receive both of those signals, you take the difference between them, and I am oversimplifying this, and it puts you on a hyperbole between the two points and multiple lines give you a position. eLORAN is an advancement of this basic technology, it has been around since the end of World War II, that would allow additional information to be transmitted with a signal, a higher degree of accuracy and then produce the three things that GPS does produce, position, navigation, and timing. It does require the construction of terrestrial antennas, big, large radio stations, if you will, to be able to transmit that signal. We were actively looking at this in 2009 and with the change of administration it was decided that the eLORAN program would be terminated as a cost efficiency. And again, as I noted in my written testimony, we are at a point now where we are actually starting over again where we were 8 years ago. Mr. Garamendi. There are three different parts to this: position, timing, navigation. The timing is essential for the operation of virtually everything, from the electrical grid to cellphones and ATM [automated teller] machines and the like. Positioning and navigation are an additional that GPS adds. Can we do an eLORAN system for timing only and then add to it later the position and navigation? Admiral Allen. You can, sir. There is a timing signal that is being transmitted from a tower in Wildwood, New Jersey, right now to test just that, the timing signal. Yes, sir. Mr. Garamendi. What would it take for those signals, both timing, position, and navigation, to be built into one of these or ATM machines or whatever else? Admiral Allen. That is a little bit of a different challenge, sir, because we stopped building LORAN receivers when there was no signal to be received. There has been some talk in Europe and some movement to combine both eLORAN over there and Galileo which is their global navigation satellite system or their equivalent of GPS. One might envision in the future with advances made in computation and [miniaturization] that you could hold an eLORAN receiver and GPS receiver in the same device for a redundancy. Right now if you are using an iPhone 6 or above, you have both a GPS chip and Russian GLONASS chip in it to ensure redundancy and reliability. And I might add that we need to take a look at how we interface with these other systems and how we bring it into a situation where we can assure reliability and signal integrity and take advantage of those signals as well. Mr. Garamendi. Final question and this goes to General Shelton. How important is a backup system to the work that you did before you retired? General Shelton. Sir, we tried to have backups to everything we did. Mr. Garamendi. We have done some studies of this in committee and hopefully I don't get out of bounds here, but it seems to me that in the command and control of the nuclear weapons system that backups are exceedingly important. And without going into any of the detail, could the eLORAN system be a backup system at least for some of those command and control mechanisms? General Shelton. You know, sir, I couldn't answer that on a technical level. Maybe Admiral Allen could. But as I understand eLORAN, it is more about navigation and timing and less about direct communications. Mr. Garamendi. It is a very powerful, low-frequency radio signal capable of transmitting data and information one way. Is that correct, Mr. Allen? Admiral Allen. Yes, sir. Mr. Garamendi. Excuse me, Admiral. Admiral Allen. It is all right. I was a commanding officer of a LORAN-C station in Thailand in the war in Vietnam. And information has since been declassified. There was actual work being done on whether or not you could augment a LORAN signal for a fleet broadcast to naval units who are operating in the area. So it has been demonstrated you can use a LORAN signal to transmit command and control information. Whether or not that is the solution for the nuclear enterprise I don't want to comment on that, but it has been demonstrated that signal can be used as a communications channel as well. Mr. Garamendi. And my final is my own comment. To do the navigation timing, we could do it with a public/private partnership. The Federal Government could or could not engage, but it is about somewhere south of a hundred million dollars to set it up. And that is for the timing issue that allows these things to operate, not your location and your mapping wouldn't, but at least you can do your ATM work remotely. That is a cheap solution on one of the pieces of it. Admiral Allen. Yes, sir. This is not a technology issue. Mr. Garamendi. Thank you. Thank you very much for the time. Mr. Rogers. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Oklahoma, Mr. Bridenstine, for 5 minutes. Mr. Bridenstine. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to focus, Admiral Allen, on your position on the PNT Advisory Board. You mentioned that some systems use pseudolites. Can you tell us, does the U.S. GPS constellation take advantage of pseudolites? Admiral Allen. They are available and they have been proposed. My understanding is, and I am not going to get in over my depth of water here, my technical background, pseudolites are limited in their range because they are terrestrial based and the amount of power needed can cause disruption with GPS signals. I think it is a general consensus opinion of the folks that I talk with that that would not be a suitable backup. Mr. Bridenstine. Can you tell me if the BeiDou system operated by the Chinese, does that use pseudolites? Admiral Allen. Not directly. But since you mentioned BeiDou, there is an issue about whether or not we want to take an international look at all of these global navigation satellite systems and see if we can come up with some common way to create interoperability and whether or not these signals can be used for redundant and backup purposes for the other signals. I think the leading candidate to do that right now would be Galileo, the European Union system. But the international governance structure over the top of this is maturing as well. And there are some options we could explore internationally, but it has been limited to date. Mr. Bridenstine. Well, let me ask, you mentioned pseudolites as one of the augmentation capabilities that might help mitigate whether it is jamming or spoofing or some other signal problem that you have with GPS. Do you still believe that? Admiral Allen. In my testimony I listed it only because for the purpose of discussion we have looked at all possible areas where you could protect, toughen, or augment the signal. Pseudolites are a way to augment the signal, but the downside associated with that in terms of coverage area and the amount of power that is used makes it not an advisable backup. Mr. Bridenstine. So does anybody use pseudolites right now as an augmentation that you know of? Admiral Allen. Oh, I think there are pseudolites being used, but I don't think it is in any type of a coherent government structure. Mr. Bridenstine. Okay. General Shelton, do you have thoughts on that? General Shelton. Well, the only thing I would say in addition to what Admiral Allen said was, one of the problems with the GPS reception is it is easily blocked by big buildings or canyons on earth or mountains, you know. Mr. Bridenstine. The site of your aircraft. General Shelton. Exactly. Mr. Bridenstine. Yes. General Shelton. So if you have got a ground-based attempt at augmentation here, like he says, the coverage isn't very great, plus you have got these potential interruptions in the coverage, you know, just due to geography or buildings or whatever. Mr. Bridenstine. Okay. Admiral Allen. Within the level that we can talk about in this room here, there are localized augmentation options that are being looked at for in-theater loss of GPS for operations. But probably not the focus of this hearing. Mr. Bridenstine. When we talk about eLORAN, as Mr. Garamendi was talking about, we think about it being maybe a solution to maybe if you lose GPS. At the same time, can you--I mean, right now, of course, our systems aren't designed for it. But if they were, could you use eLORAN in order to, you know, to drop a JDAM [Joint Direct Attack Munition], a precision- guided munition. Admiral Allen. I would defer to General Shelton. General Shelton. First you would have to figure out how you are going to receive that signal for a signal that is really intended for kind of nap-of-the-earth coverage as opposed to coming from space. Mr. Bridenstine. So when we drop a GPS-guided weapon, we have very precise measurements that come from the Geospatial- Intelligence Agency and we are able to know that we have a designated mean point of impact and there is a certain circular error probability for every weapon that we drop that we know we are going to hit that target. If we went with eLORAN, I would imagine none of that exists, none of that has been tested or proven, which means that it wouldn't necessarily be perfect, although certainly being able to navigate is important. But using it for precision-guided munitions would probably not be something we would be able to do for a number of years. General Shelton. Significant testing program would be required, no doubt. Admiral Allen. If I could just add, my comments were directed at the civil user community. Mr. Bridenstine. Oh, okay, civil user, got it. Well, a couple of other things. As far as remote sensing for FEMA when we talk about ultimately if there is some kind of natural disaster, we have to figure out what happened and get the right information to the right people. A lot of the satellites that do that remote sensing are commercial nowadays. And of course, the Geospatial-Intelligence Agency has a huge, you know, desire to have more information, more data. One of the challenges we have and one of the reasons I think the National Space Council would be so important is because we need to get those satellites licensed quicker. They are being licensed, of course, by NOAA [National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration], but they have DOD [Department of Defense] implications, they have FEMA implications. There is a whole-of-government challenge here, an interagency problem that we have to deal with. So that is another topic. And I would leave this with Chairman Donovan and Chairman Rogers. We have heard General Shelton talk about this being infrastructure. This is an important point that General Shelton made, that space is now infrastructure just like the grid. And when we do an infrastructure bill, which I know the President wants to do an infrastructure bill and it seems to be that there is bipartisan support for that, I think space ought to be a big part of that infrastructure bill. And with that, I will yield back. Mr. Rogers. Thank the gentleman. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Rhode Island, Mr. Langevin, for 5 minutes. Mr. Langevin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank our witnesses for your testimony and also for your service to the Nation and the various contributions you have made to keeping us safe. So following on the issue of critical assets, so cyber exploitation of our critical infrastructure is one of the greatest threats to our Nation as I see it right now and that we face as a country today. And in your testimonies, you have alluded to the fact that our satellites and space assets should in fact be included in this category and that we must protect, toughen, and augment these assets. So what actions have we taken to ensure that we are protecting these critical assets? And how are we mitigating our risk and preventing against cyber attacks on our satellites? General Shelton. I think the satellites themselves are very secure. Without going into any detail on that, I think the satellites themselves are well-protected from cyber attack. The ground stations, however, are an avenue of attack for a potential adversary. We have done everything we know to do to harden those ground stations against cyber attack. But as we have seen in many instances, there are cyber surprises. And so to take any comfort in the fact that our hardening has been a forever fix, so to speak, I don't think that is the appropriate attitude. Continuing to improve cyber defenses at all our satellite ground stations has got to be a priority. Mr. Langevin. So one of the things that I am greatly concerned about is miscalculation on behalf of our enemies and adversaries, that they might think of our satellite architecture as assets where they could take action as sending a message or thinking that it is a standoff action that would help to deescalate a situation, where in fact those are critical national assets that we depend on and that we would see as, I believe, a red line. Do you think that we have done enough to convey to our enemies and adversaries what critical national assets these are and that we will use all assets of national power to protect them and that were they to take action against one of these assets that we would consider it more than just a deescalatory action or that it is expendable, but it is something that we would respond to very harshly? General Shelton. Sir, that is a very interesting question. And during the Cold War, there was if not explicit, there was certainly implicit agreement that certain satellites were strategic assets and you didn't do anything to interfere with their operation. That was at least a tacit agreement between us and the Russians. I don't believe that same level of agreement exists with the Chinese. We have seen in their public writings that they consider this just as another opportunity to take away a strategic advantage that an adversary would have. Our policy is very clear. We do say very clearly in national space policy that we consider an attack on those assets as vital interests. So it is not prescriptive, it is not an if/then statement, but it is fairly clear in diplomatic language what we mean by that. Mr. Langevin. Thank you. To the panel, I also feel strongly that our satellites are like flashlights in the dark, that they are allowing us to see what is not readily observable using traditional technologies, particularly when it comes to climate damage. How does climate damage threaten our national security interests? And how do our space-based systems and data-driven tools help FEMA to evaluate the threat and prepare for it? Mr. Nimmich. Sir, as you know, the nature of the rising sea level as well as the climatic differences that are causing massive rain events that have not been realized before are causing extensive damage to both individual as well as national capabilities. We use an awful lot of the climatology information that is provided by satellites, as well as satellite use in terms of being able to determine where the risk will be in the future. So we are working closely with NOAA in terms of surge modeling that didn't exist before so that we can actually identify what the storm event may cause damage, flash flooding, and others through our risk map programs and just looking at the natural transition that is occurring in terms of the nature of the storms that are there. So the ability to understand future impacts along our coastal and our most vulnerable cities and infrastructure are exactly what we are using. Mr. Langevin. Thank you. Admiral, did you have anything to add? Admiral Allen. The whole notion of sensing is something that we are coming to grips with in the complexity we are dealing with with increasing interaction between the built environment and the natural environment. We are seeing, as Admiral Nimmich said, events of greater frequency and greater consequence and greater scope and scale. Space-based technology have the opportunity to help us out in some other ways. It is possible with GPS signals to detect very small changes in elevation and other parameters that would give us a warning that there might be seismic activity or even the density of water vapor might help us predict storms. So this is all something that is there, we can use it, and we need to move forward very aggressively and employ it. Mr. Langevin. Very good. Thank you all for your testimony. And I yield back. Mr. Rogers. Thank the gentleman. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Rutherford, for 5 minutes. Mr. Rutherford. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, gentlemen, for your testimony today. I go back to something that General Shelton said earlier about Congress and the executive branch getting together and moving forward and defining roles. And you talked a little bit about responses, Admiral Allen did. Oddly enough, that was one of the things that came out in a discussion about cyber attacks and warfare, too, is this inability to really define whose roles and responsibilities are at play in protection and prosecution and those things. I would ask, we talked about the government response, I was wondering in this, like in the cyber world, where does private industry, what responsibilities do they accept when they go into space? Admiral Allen. Let me talk on the user side and then maybe General Shelton would like to comment. Mr. Rutherford. Thank you. Admiral Allen. There are very few critical infrastructures that don't have embedded GPS receivers someplace. And so you need to talk about the responsibility of the private sector in carrying out their own enterprises and basically standard of care if you will. In this case, GPS PNT issues and cyber issues are not that far apart. We are operating in an area where the technology is advancing. We are operating in an area where some of the legal frameworks for international cooperation and what constitutes, say, an act of war or a crime are not as clear and we are faced with the challenge of defending, protecting, and even using offensive operations simultaneously in the same environment. Very, very confusing moving forward. But from the civil side, there is a discussion going on right now with Homeland Security and the critical infrastructure sectors about what it means to have vulnerabilities in industrial control systems and other areas where you have GPS receivers that, if they were denied that service or spoofing or jamming, what it might do to that critical infrastructure sector. And I think that is a current focus, but it needs to be continued. Most of those upgrades to reduce those vulnerabilities don't happen unless it is part of an operations maintenance cycle because there is no monetary incentive for companies to do that and we have to change that. Mr. Rutherford. Thank you, sir. General Shelton. Sir, I think a good analogy is the maritime domain. You know, people operate in the maritime domain, they don't have any defensive capability, they don't worry about protection. They count on host-nation support and the United States Navy support for U.S.-flagged vessels. Same thing in space, I think. Private industry is not concerned about coming under attack because they think we are going to provide the protection for U.S. assets. And unfortunately right now, it is just not so. Admiral Allen. If I can maybe just add another comment. And I will try and quote, I may not do it exactly right, our former colleague, Keith Alexander. He and I were on a panel last week when the notion of common defense came up as defined in the Constitution. I think we are seeing a re-definition of what that means. In the past, a banking system didn't seem to be something that would be critical to national security. But if you look at the implications of loss of time and what might happen to the banking system or cyber denial of service or other attacks, I think we are reshaping what actually the common defense means and what our responsibilities are related to that. And it is a conversation that is in progress. Mr. Rutherford. Thank you, sir. And I would also just make an observation that when we talked about the jamming and those who have been prosecuted and really the lack of significant penalties going along with that, we see the same thing on the cyber side. And I really think, Mr. Chairman, this is one area where Congress should certainly step up and address the lack of real penalties for some of these violations, particularly in the finance and commerce world, but also in protecting our space assets as well. And I think that is something that we should, as legislators, should certainly be looking at very strongly. Would you support that concept? Admiral Allen. Yes, sir. Let me just make sure I was clear on my comments. There are some penalties associated with the illegal activities. The question is, are they significant enough to deter activity? Are they enforceable? And do we have a unity of effort in how we are addressing the problem? And all of that, in my view, speaks to room for improvement. Mr. Rutherford. General Shelton. General Shelton. Interestingly enough, GPS jamming has been used to block criminal activity, you know, put a jammer in place so the criminal can't be tracked. So, yes, sir, more penalties would be a good thing. Mr. Rutherford. Thank you. Mr. Nimmich, did you want to comment on that? Mr. Nimmich. It really doesn't fall under emergency management in that regard, sir. But clearly, one of the challenges you have gotten in past experiences, it is not just the penalties, but the infrastructure to be able to identify where the jammer is and take action to prevent that jammer. We still have not developed the countermeasures for jamming that are necessary to maintain the reliability of the system. Mr. Rutherford. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Mr. Rogers. Thank the gentleman. The Chair now recognizes for a closing question the gentleman from California, Mr. Garamendi. Mr. Garamendi. I noticed Mr. Cooper just arrived, so I am going to make this a very quick question. Mr. Bridenstine raised the question of the potential for eLORAN in a military situation. There are some systems that could work, but I don't see how they would work for the precision munitions that you might fly on your plane. But there are some ground-based systems out there that are either in place or about to be put in place. But the eLORAN is basically continental United States and Alaska and it could be offshore. It goes about a thousand miles offshore. But my question is this and this is part of what Mr. Bridenstine was going at and that is positioning. Can eLORAN give an accurate position? We know that its timing is nearly as accurate or is as accurate as GPS, but how about positioning and navigation? If it were established within the continental United States, could it give good positioning and navigational work? And I guess to any of you, but let us start with Admiral Allen and then the rest of you can jump in. Admiral Allen. It could. The level of accuracy related to LORAN has to do with the physical parameters of the distance between the antenna and the reception. So you would have to decide, what would be the level of reliability and signal strength and accuracy that you wanted. The more accurate you get, the more sophisticated and expensive the system is going to be to do that. But we are looking at ability to back up the GPS when it is needed. And I think that would have to be discussed. You can crank that down to a pretty fine degree of accuracy, but there is a question of cost and the infrastructure that would be required to support it. Mr. Garamendi. And that is really the number of towers that you would place and where you would place them. Admiral Allen. That is correct. And if I could just add on, you were correct earlier, the current version of the eLORAN system would be for the U.S. area to basically provide a backup in that area below the GPS coverage that is current in the GPS. You could conceivably have a global backup system, but that would be an extensive, extensive eLORAN system. Mr. Garamendi. I yield back my time. I see my colleague has arrived, he seems to have been satisfied listening in on all of this. Mr. Rogers. Well, I want to thank the witnesses for your participation today. This has been a very important topic to help us focus on it also, but raise awareness that we need to be taking some action. So thank you for being here and your participation. And with that, we are adjourned. [Whereupon, at 3:11 p.m., the subcommittees were adjourned.] ======================================================================= A P P E N D I X March 29, 2017 ======================================================================= PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD March 29, 2017 ======================================================================= [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]