[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
HEARING WITH MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER ATTORNEY TO PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
OVERSIGHT AND REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
FEBRUARY 27, 2019
__________
Serial No. 116-03
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Reform
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http://www.house.gov/reform
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COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND REFORM
ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland, Chairman
Carolyn B. Maloney, New York Jim Jordan, Ohio, Ranking Minority
Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of Member
Columbia Justin Amash, Michigan
Wm. Lacy Clay, Missouri Paul A. Gosar, Arizona
Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts Virginia Foxx, North Carolina
Jim Cooper, Tennessee Thomas Massie, Kentucky
Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia Mark Meadows, North Carolina
Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois Jody B. Hice, Georgia
Jamie Raskin, Maryland Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Harley Rouda, California James Comer, Kentucky
Katie Hill, California Michael Cloud, Texas
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Florida Bob Gibbs, Ohio
John P. Sarbanes, Maryland Clay Higgins, Louisiana
Peter Welch, Vermont Ralph Norman, South Carolina
Jackie Speier, California Chip Roy, Texas
Robin L. Kelly, Illinois Carol D. Miller, West Virginia
Mark DeSaulnier, California Mark E. Green, Tennessee
Brenda L. Lawrence, Michigan Kelly Armstrong, North Dakota
Stacey E. Plaskett, Virgin Islands W. Gregory Steube, Florida
Ro Khanna, California
Jimmy Gomez, California
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York
Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
David Rapallo, Staff Director
Peter Kenny, Counsel
Elisa LaNier, Chief Clerk and Director of Operations
Contact Number: 202-225-5051
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on February 27, 2019................................ 1
Witnesses
Michael Cohen, Former Attorney to President Donald Trump
Oral Statement............................................... 9
Written Statement............................................ 16
Index of Inserts
Page
Statement of Lynne Patton.................................... 35
Referral of Michael Cohen for Potential Violation............ 39
Common Cause Letter.......................................... 108
Dr. Darrell Scott Tweet...................................... 154
Bo Dietl Tweet............................................... 156
Letter to Chairman Cummings.................................. 158
Cohen Sentencing Statement................................... 168
State of New York Court Order on Cohen....................... 172
HEARING WITH MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER ATTORNEY TO PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP
----------
Tuesday, February 27, 2019
House of Representatives
Committee on Oversight and Reform
Washington, D.C.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m., in
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Elijah Cummings
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Cummings, Maloney, Norton, Clay,
Lynch, Cooper, Connolly, Krishnamoorthi, Raskin, Rouda, Hill,
Wasserman Schultz, Sarbanes, Welch, Speier, Kelly, DeSaulnier,
Lawrence, Plaskett, Khanna, Gomez, Ocasio-Cortez, Pressley,
Tlaib, Jordan, Amash, Gosar, Foxx, Massie, Meadows, Hice,
Grothman, Comer, Cloud, Gibbs, Higgins, Norman, Roy, Miller,
Green, Armstrong, and Steube.
Chairman Cummings. The committee will come to order.
Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess
of the committee at any time. The full committee hearing is
convening to hear the testimony of Michael Cohen, former
attorney to President Donald Trump.
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman, I have a point of order.
Chairman Cummings. You'll state your point of order.
Mr. Meadows. Rule 9(f) of the committee rules say that any
testimony from your witness needs to be here 24 hours in
advance. The committee and the chairman know well that at
10:08, we received the written testimony, and then we received
evidence this morning at 7:54.
Now, if this was just an oversight, Mr. Chairman, I could
look beyond it. But it was an intentional effort by this
witness and his advisors to, once again, show his disdain for
this body.
With that, I move that we postpone this hearing.
Chairman Cummings. I want to thank the gentleman.
Let me say this, that we got the testimony late last night.
We did. And we got it to you all pretty much the same time that
we got it.
I want to move forward with this hearing.
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman, with all due respect, Mr.
Chairman, this is a violation of the rule. And if it was not
intentional, I would not have a problem. I'm not saying it was
intentional on your part. I'm saying it's intentional on his
part, because Mr. Dean, last night on a cable news network,
actually made it all very evident. John Dean. And I'll quote,
Mr. Chairman. He said, ``As a former committee counsel in the
House Judiciary Committee, and then a long-term witness,
sitting alone at the table is important, quote, 'holding your
statement as long as you can so the other side can't chew it up
is important as well,' '' closed quote.
And so it was advice that our witness got for this
particular body. And, Mr. Chairman, when you were in the
minority, you wouldn't have stood for it. And I can tell you
that we should not stand for it as a body.
Chairman Cummings. Let me say this----
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Chairman----
Chairman Cummings. Let me say this.
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Chairman----
Chairman Cummings. Yes. Katie Hill.
Ms. Hill. I move to table.
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. Is there a second?
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Chairman. I was asked to be recognized
before the motion.
Chairman Cummings. The vote is on tabling the motion.
Mr. Jordan. Do you know who had this material before all
the members of the committee?
Chairman Cummings. Excuse me.
Mr. Jordan. CNN had it before we did.
Chairman Cummings. Sir.
Mr. Jordan. CNN had the exhibits before we did.
Well, I just want to be recognized.
Chairman Cummings. Yes, well, the vote is on tabling the
motion to postpone.
All in favor say aye.
All opposed say no. The ayes have it.
Mr. Meadows. And I appeal the ruling of the chair.
Yes, I can assure you it's in the rules. I appeal the
ruling of the chair.
Mr. Hice. Do the rules matter, Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Cummings. I recognize the gentlelady.
Ms. Hill. Move to waive the rules.
Chairman Cummings. There's a motion to table.
Ms. Hill. Move to table.
Chairman Cummings. The vote is----
Mr. Meadows. Well, she made two motions. What's the motion?
Chairman Cummings. The vote is on tabling----
Ms. Hill. I move to table the appeal to the ruling of the
chair.
Chairman Cummings. The vote is on that.
All in favor say aye.
All opposed say no.
The ayes have it.
Mr. Meadows. I ask for a recorded vote, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. Very well.
The clerk will call the roll.
The Clerk. Mr. Cummings?
Chairman Cummings. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Cummings votes yes.
Ms. Maloney?
Ms. Maloney. Yes.
The Clerk. Ms. Maloney votes yes.
Ms. Norton?
Ms. Norton. Yes.
The Clerk. Ms. Norton votes yes.
Mr. Clay?
Mr. Clay. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Clay votes yes.
Mr. Lynch?
Mr. Lynch. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Lynch votes yes.
Mr. Cooper?
Mr. Cooper. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Cooper votes yes.
Mr. Connolly?
Mr. Connolly. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Connolly votes yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Krishnamoorthi?
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Krishnamoorthi votes yes.
Mr. Raskin?
Mr. Raskin. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Raskin votes yes.
Mr. Rouda?
Mr. Rouda. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Rouda votes yes.
Ms. Hill?
Ms. Hill. Yes.
The Clerk. Ms. Hill votes yes.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz?
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Yes.
The Clerk. Ms. Wasserman Schultz votes yes.
Mr. Sarbanes?
Mr. Sarbanes. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Sarbanes votes yes.
Mr. Welch. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Welch votes yes.
Ms. Speier?
Ms. Speier. Yes.
The Clerk. Ms. Speier votes yes.
Ms. Kelly?
Ms. Kelly. Yes.
The Clerk. Ms. Kelly votes yes.
Mr. DeSaulnier?
Mr. DeSaulnier. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. DeSaulnier votes yes.
Mrs. Lawrence?
Mrs. Lawrence. Yes.
The Clerk. Mrs. Lawrence votes yes.
Ms. Plaskett?
Ms. Plaskett. Yes.
The Clerk. Ms. Plaskett votes yes.
Mr. Khanna?
Mr. Khanna. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Khanna votes yes.
Mr. Gomez?
Mr. Gomez. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Gomez votes yes.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez?
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Yes.
The Clerk. Ms. Ocasio-Cortez votes yes.
Ms. Pressley?
Ms. Pressley. Yes.
The Clerk. Ms. Pressley votes yes.
Ms. Tlaib?
Ms. Tlaib. Yes.
The Clerk. Ms. Tlaib votes yes.
Mr. Jordan?
Mr. Jordan. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Jordan votes no.
Mr. Amash?
Mr. Amash. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Amash votes no.
Mr. Gosar?
Mr. Gosar. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Gosar votes no.
Ms. Foxx?
Ms. Foxx. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Foxx votes no.
Mr. Massie?
Mr. Massie. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Massie votes no.
Mr. Meadows?
Mr. Meadows. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Meadows votes no.
Mr. Hice?
Mr. Hice. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Hice votes no.
Mr. Grothman?
Mr. Grothman. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Grothman votes no.
Mr. Comer?
Mr. Comer. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Comer votes no.
Mr. Cloud?
Mr. Cloud. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Cloud votes no.
Mr. Gibbs?
Mr. Gibbs. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Gibbs votes no.
Mr. Higgins?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Norman?
Mr. Norman. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Norman votes no.
Mr. Roy?
Mr. Roy. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Roy votes no.
Mrs. Miller?
Mrs. Miller. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. Miller votes no.
Mr. Green?
Mr. Green. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Green votes no.
Mr. Armstrong?
Mr. Armstrong. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Armstrong votes no.
Mr. Steube?
Mr. Steube. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Steube votes no.
On this vote, we have 24 yeses, 17 noes.
Chairman Cummings. OK. The motion to table is agreed to.
Let me say this: You've made it clear that you do not want
the American people to hear what Mr. Cohen has to say. But the
American people have a right to hear him, so we're going to
proceed. The American people can judge his credibility for
themselves.
Now----
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. Yes.
Mr. Jordan. We did not say that. We just said we wanted to
follow the rules. We had--he didn't say stop the hearing. He
just said postpone it so we could get his testimony and the
exhibits when we were supposed to get them according to the
rules of this committee. That's all we said. We didn't say we
didn't want to hear from the guy.
Chairman Cummings. Reclaiming my time.
Mr. Jordan. We want to follow the rule.
Chairman Cummings. Reclaiming my time.
I now recognize myself for five minutes to give an opening
statement.
Today, the committee will hear the testimony of Michael
Cohen, President Donald Trump's long-time personal attorney,
and one of his closest and most trusted advisers over the last
decade. On August 21, Mr. Cohen appeared in Federal court, and
admitted to arranging secret payoffs of hundreds of thousands
of dollars on the eve of the election, to silence women
alleging affairs with Donald Trump.
Mr. Cohen admitted to violating campaign finance laws and
other laws. He admitted to committing these felonies, quote,
``in coordination with and at the direction of,'' unquote,
President Trump. And he admitted, he admitted, to lying about
his actions to protect the President.
Some will certainly ask, if Mr. Cohen was lying then, why
should we believe him now?
Mr. Jordan. Good question.
Chairman Cummings. This is a legitimate question.
As a trial lawyer for many years, I faced this situation
over and over again, and I asked the same question.
Here is how I view our role. Every one of us in this room
has a duty to serve as an independent check on the executive
branch. Ladies and gentlemen, we are in search of the truth.
The President has made many statements of his own, and now the
American people have a right to hear the other side. They can
watch Mr. Cohen's testimony and make their own judgment.
We received a copy of Mr. Cohen's written statement late
last night. It includes not only personal eyewitness accounts
of meetings with Donald Trump, as President inside the Oval
Office, but it also includes documents and other corroborating
evidence of some of Mr. Cohen's statements.
For example, Mr. Cohen has provided a copy of a check sent
while President Trump was in office, with Donald Trump's
signature on it to reimburse Mr. Cohen for the hush money
payment to Stormy Daniels. This is new--this new evidence
raises a host of troubling legal and ethical concerns about the
President's actions in the White House and before.
Would you all close that door, please?
Thank you.
This check is dated August 1, 2017. Six months later, in
April 2018, the President denied anything about it. In April
2018, President Trump was flying on Air Force One when a
reporter asked him a question, Did you know about a $130,000
payment to Stormy Daniels? The answer was, quote, ``No.''
A month after that, the President admitted to making
payments to Mr. Cohen, proclaimed they were part of a, quote,
``a monthly retainer,'' unquote, for legal services. This claim
fell apart in August when Federal prosecutors concluded, and I
quote, ``in truth and in fact, there was no such retainer
agreement,'' end of quote.
Today, we will also hear Mr. Cohen's account of a meeting
in 2016 in Donald Trump's office during which Roger Stone said
over speaker phone that he had just spoken with Julian Assange,
who said there would be a, quote, ``massive dump of emails that
would damage Hillary Clinton's campaign,'' end of quote.
According to Cohen, Mr. Trump replied, quote, ``Wouldn't
that be great,'' end of quote.
The testimony that Michael Cohen will provide today, ladies
and gentlemen, is deeply disturbing, and it should be troubling
to all Americans. We will all have to make our own evaluation
of the evidence and Mr. Cohen's credibility as he admits he has
repeatedly lied in the past. I agree with Ranking Member Jordan
that this is an important factor we need to weigh, but we must
weigh it, and we must hear from him.
But where I disagree fundamentally with the ranking member
involves his efforts to prevent the American people from
hearing from Mr. Cohen. Mr. Cohen's testimony raises grave
questions about the legality of Donald Trump's--President
Donald Trump's conduct and the truthfulness of statements while
he was President. We need to assess and investigate this new
evidence as we uphold our constitutional--our oversight
responsibilities. And we will continue after today to gather
more documents and testimony in our search for the truth.
I have made it abundantly clear to Mr. Cohen that if he
comes here today and he does not tell him the truth--tell us
the truth, I will be the first one to refer that--those
untruthful statements to DOJ. So when people say he doesn't
have anything to lose, he does have a lot to lose if he lies.
And the American people, by the way, voted for
accountability in November. And they have a right to hear Mr.
Cohen in public so they can make their own judgments.
Mr. Cohen's testimony is the beginning of the process, not
the end. Ladies and gentlemen, the days of this committee
protecting the President at all costs are over. They're over.
Before I close, I want to comment about the scope of
today's hearing. At the request of the House Intelligence
Committee and my very good friend, Adam Schiff, Congressman
Adam Schiff, the chairman, I intended, over the objections of
the ranking member of our committee, to limit the scope of
today's hearing to avoid questions about Russia.
However, Mr. Cohen's written testimony--in his written
testimony, he's made statements relating to Russia, and these
are topics that, we understand, do not raise concern from the
Department of Justice.
So in fairness to the ranking member and all committee
members, we will not restrict questions relating to the
witness's testimony or related questions he is willing to
answer.
Finally, I remind members that we will need to remain
mindful of those areas where there are ongoing Department of
Justice investigations. Those scoping limitations have not
changed.
Finally, and to Mr. Cohen, Martin Luther King, Mr. Cohen,
said some words that I leave with you today before you testify.
He said, Faith is taking the first step even when you can't see
the whole staircase. There comes a time when silence becomes
betrayal. Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about
things that truly matter. In the end he says, we will remember
not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends.
And with that, I yield to the distinguished gentleman, the
ranking member of our committee, Mr. Jordan.
Mr. Gosar. Mr. Chairman, point of parliamentary inquiry.
Chairman Cummings. Yes.
Mr. Gosar. To the point that----
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Jordan is recognized. Mr. Jordan is
recognized for his opening statement.
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Chairman, here we go. Here we go. Your
first big hearing, your first announced witness, Michael Cohen.
I want everyone in this room to think about this. The first
announced witness for the 116th Congress is a guy who is going
to prison in two months for lying to Congress.
Mr. Chairman, your chairmanship will always be identified
with this hearing. And we all need to understand what this is.
This is the Michael Cohen hearing presented by Lanny Davis.
That's right. Lanny Davis choreographed the whole darn thing.
The Clintons' best friend, loyalist, operative. Lanny Davis put
this all together.
Do you know how we know? He told our staff. He told the
committee staff. He said the hearing was his idea. He selected
this committee. He had to talk Michael Cohen into coming. And
most importantly, he had to persuade the chairman to actually
have it. He told us it took two months to get that job done.
But here we are. He talked him into it.
This might be the first time someone convicted of lying to
Congress has appeared again so quickly in front of Congress.
Certainly, it's the first time a convicted perjurer has been
brought back to be a star witness in a hearing. And there's a
reason this is a first, because no other committee would do it.
Think about this. With Mr. Cohen here, this committee, we
got lots of lawyers on this committee, this committee is
actually encouraging a witness to violate attorney-client
privilege.
Mr. Chairman, when we legitimize dishonesty, we
delegitimize this institution. We're supposed to pursue the
truth. But you have stacked the deck against the truth. We're
only allowed to ask certain questions. Even with that amendment
you just told us about, well, Russia is now on the table.
You additionally told us we can't ask questions about the
special counsel, can't ask questions about the Southern
District of New York, can't ask questions about Russia. Nope.
Nope. Only subjects we can talk about are ones you think are
going to be harmful to the President of the United States. And
the answers to those questions are going to come from a guy who
can't be trusted.
Here's what the U.S. attorney said about Mr. Cohen. While
Mr. Cohen enjoyed a privileged life, his desire for ever-
greater wealth and influence precipitated an extensive course
of criminal conduct. Mr. Cohen committed four, four distinct
Federal crimes over a period of several years. He was motivated
to do so by personal greed. And repeatedly, repeatedly used his
power and influence for deceptive ends.
But the Democrats don't care. They don't care. They just
want to use you, Mr. Cohen. You're their patsy today. They got
to find somebody somewhere to say something so they can try to
remove the President from office, because Tom Steyer told him
to.
Tom Steyer last week organized a town hall. Guess where?
Chairman Nadler's district in Manhattan. Two nights ago, Tom
Steyer organized a town hall. Guess where? Chairman Cummings'
district in Baltimore. The best they can find--the best they
can find to start this process, Michael Cohen. Fraudster, a
cheat, a convicted felon, and in two months, a Federal inmate.
Well, actually, they didn't find him. Lanny Davis found him.
I'll say one thing about the Democrats. They stick to the
playbook. Remember--remember how all this started. The Clinton
campaign hired Perkins Coie law firm who hired Glenn Simpson
who hired a foreigner, Christopher Steele, who put together the
fake dossier that the FBI used to go get a warrant to spy on
the Trump campaign.
But when that whole scheme failed and the American people
said we're going to make Donald Trump President, they said, We
got to do something else. So now Clinton loyalist, Clinton
operative Lanny Davis has persuaded the chairman of the
Oversight Committee to give a convicted felon a forum to tell
stories and lie about the President of the United States so
they can all start their impeachment process.
Mr. Chairman, we are better than this. We are better than
this.
I yield back.
Chairman Cummings. I wanted to note.
Mr. Jordan. Actually, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have to
motion.
Chairman Cummings. Yield back.
Mr. Jordan. I have a motion.
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman is not recognized.
Mr. Jordan. I have a motion under rule 2(k)6 of Rule 11.
Chairman Cummings. You yielded back, sir. You yielded back.
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Chairman, you took 7 minutes. I took 4.
Chairman Cummings. Well, the gentleman yielded back.
Mr. Jordan. That's how you're going to operate?
First you don't follow the rules, and now you're going to
say--so you don't get--you get to----
Chairman Cummings. Point of order. You--regular order.
Mr. Jordan. You get to deviate from the rules.
Chairman Cummings. Regular order.
Mr. Jordan. I just have a simple motion, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Plaskett. Regular order.
Chairman Cummings. Thank you.
Mr. Jordan. It's a regular order to have the testimony 24
hours in advance.
Chairman Cummings. Excuse me. I wanted to note that----
Mr. Connolly. We've addressed that.
Chairman Cummings [continuing]. until Rule 11 Clause 4, all
media and photographers must be officially credentialed to
record these proceedings and take photographs.
I also wanted to briefly address the spectators in the
hearing room today. We welcome you and we respect your right to
be here. We also ask, in turn, for your respect as we proceed
with the business of the committee today. It is the intention
of the committee to proceed without any disruptions. Any
disruption of this committee will result in the United States
Capitol Police restoring order, and that protesters will be
removed. And we are grateful for your presence here today and
your cooperation.
Now I want to welcome Mr. Cohen and thank him for
participating in today's hearing.
Mr. Cohen, if you would please rise, and I will begin to
swear you in.
Raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony that you are about to give is the whole truth and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Cohen. I do.
Chairman Cummings. Let the record show that the witness
answered in the affirmative. And thank you. And you may be
seated.
The microphones are sensitive, so please speak directly
into them. Without objection, your written statement will be
made a part of the record.
With that, Mr. Cohen, you are now recognized to give an
oral presentation of your testimony.
STATEMENT OF MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER ATTORNEY TO PRESIDENT DONALD
TRUMP
Mr. Cohen. Chairman Cummings, Ranking Member Jordan, and
members of the committee, thank you for inviting me here today.
I have asked this committee to ensure that my family be
protected from Presidential threats, and that the committee be
sensitive to the questions pertaining to ongoing
investigations. I thank you for your help and for your
understanding.
I am here under oath to correct the record, to answer the
committee's questions truthfully, and to offer the American
people what I know about President Trump. I recognize that some
of you may doubt and attack me on my credibility. It is for
this reason that I have incorporated into this opening
statement documents that are irrefutable, and demonstrate that
the information you will hear is accurate and truthful.
Never in a million years did I imagine when I accepted a
job in 2007 to work for Donald Trump that he would one day run
for the presidency, to launch a campaign on a platform of hate
and intolerance, and actively win. I regret the day I said yes
to Mr. Trump. I regret all the help and support I gave him
along the way. I am ashamed of my own failings and publicly
accepted responsibility for them by pleading guilty in the
Southern District of New York. I am ashamed of my weakness and
my misplaced loyalty of the things I did for Mr. Trump in an
effort to protect and promote him.
I am ashamed that I chose to take part in concealing Mr.
Trump's illicit acts rather than listening to my own
conscience. I am ashamed, because I know what Mr. Trump is. He
is a racist, he is a con man, and he is a cheat.
He was a Presidential candidate who knew that Roger Stone
was talking with Julian Assange about a WikiLeaks drop on
Democratic National Committee emails. And I will explain each
in a few moments.
I am providing the committee today with several documents,
and these include a copy of a check Mr. Trump wrote from his
personal bank account, after he became President, to reimburse
me for the hush money payments I made to cover up his affair
with an adult film star, and to prevent damage to his campaign.
Copies of financial statements from 2011, 2012, and 2013 that
he gave to such institutions such as Deutsche Bank, a copy of
an article with Mr. Trump's handwriting on it that reported on
the auction of a portrait of himself that he arranged for the
bidder ahead of time and then reimbursed the bidder from the
account of his nonprofit charitable foundation, with the
picture now hanging in one of his country clubs, and copies of
letters I wrote at Mr. Trump's direction that threatened his
high school, colleges, and the College Board not to release his
grades or SAT scores.
I hope my appearance here today, my guilty plea, and my
work with law enforcement agencies are steps along a path of
redemption that will restore faith in me and help this country
understand our President better.
Before going further, I want to apologize to each member,
to you as Congress, as a whole. The last time I appeared before
Congress, I came to protect Mr. Trump. Today, I am here to tell
the truth about Mr. Trump. I lied to Congress when Mr. Trump
stopped negotiating the Moscow tower project in Russia. I
stated that we stopped negotiating in January 2016. That was
false. Our negotiations continued for months later during the
campaign.
Mr. Trump did not directly tell me to lie to Congress.
That's not how he operates. In conversations we had during the
campaign, at the same time, I was actively negotiating in
Russia for him, he would look me in the eye and tell me,
there's no Russian business, and then go on to lie to the
American people by saying the same thing. In his way, he was
telling me to lie.
There are at least a half a dozen times between the Iowa
caucus in January 2016 and the end of June when he would ask me
how's it going in Russia, referring to the Moscow tower
project.
You need to know that Mr. Trump's personal lawyers reviewed
and edited my statement to Congress about the timing of the
Moscow tower negotiations before I gave it. So to be clear, Mr.
Trump knew of and directed the Trump-Moscow negotiations
throughout the campaign and lied about it. He lied about it
because he never expected to win. He also lied about it because
he stood to make hundreds of millions of dollars on the Moscow
real estate project.
So I lied about it too, because Mr. Trump had made clear to
me, through his personal statements to me that we both knew to
be false and through his lies to the country, that he wanted me
to lie. And he made it clear to me, because his personal
attorneys reviewed my statement before I gave it to Congress.
Over the past two years, I have been smeared as a rat by
the President of the United States. The truth is much
different. And let me take a brief moment to introduce myself.
My name is Michael Dean Cohen, and I am a blessed husband
of 24 years and a father to an incredible daughter and son.
When I married my wife, I promised her that I would love
her, I would cherish her, and I would protect her. As my father
said countless times throughout my childhood, you, my wife, and
you, my children, are the air that I breathe.
So to my Laura and to my Sami, and to my Jake, there is
nothing I wouldn't do to protect you.
I have always tried to live a life of loyalty, friendship,
generosity, and compassion. It is qualities my parents
engrained in my siblings and me since childhood. My father
survived the Holocaust. Thanks to the compassion and selfless
acts of others, he was helped by many who put themselves in
harm's way to do what they knew was right. And that is why my
first instinct has always been to help those in need. And Mom
and Dad, I am sorry I let you down.
As the many people that know me best would say, I am the
person that they call at 3 a.m. if they needed help. And I
proudly remember being the emergency contact for many of my
children's friends when they were growing up, because their
parents knew that I would drop everything and care for them as
if they were my own.
Yet last fall, I pled guilty in Federal court to felonies
for the benefit of, at the direction of, and in coordination
with individual No. 1. And for the record, individual No. 1 is
President Donald J. Trump.
It is painful to admit that I was motivated by ambition at
times. It is even more painful to admit that many times I
ignored my conscience and acted loyal to a man when I should
not have. Sitting here today, it seems unbelievable that I was
so mesmerized by Donald Trump that I was willing to do things
for him that I knew were absolutely wrong. For that reason, I
have come here to apologize to my family, to my government, and
to the American people.
Accordingly, let me now tell you about Mr. Trump.
I got to know him very well working very closely with him
for more than 10 years as his executive vice president and
special counsel, and then as personal attorney when he became
President.
When I first met Mr. Trump, he was a successful
entrepreneur, a real estate giant, and an icon. Being around
Mr. Trump was intoxicating. When you were in his presence, you
felt like you were involved in something greater than yourself,
that you were somehow changing the world. I wound up touting
the Trump narrative for over a decade. That was my job. Always
stay on message. Always defend. It monopolized my life.
At first, I worked mostly on real estate developments and
other business transactions. Shortly thereafter, Mr. Trump
brought me into his personal life and private dealings. Over
time, I saw his true character revealed.
Mr. Trump is an enigma. He is complicated, as am I. He is
both good and bad, as are we all. But the bad far outweighs the
good. And since taking office, he has become the worst version
of himself.
He is capable of behaving kindly, but he is not kind. He is
capable of committing acts of generosity, but he is not
generous. He is capable of being loyal, but he is fundamentally
disloyal.
Donald Trump is a man who ran for office to make his brand
great, not to make our country great. He had no desire or
intention to lead this Nation, only to market himself and to
build his wealth and power.
Mr. Trump would often say this campaign was going to be the
greatest infomercial in political history. He never expected to
win the primary. He never expected to win the general election.
The campaign for him was always a marketing opportunity.
I knew early on in my work for Mr. Trump that he would
direct me to lie to further his business interests. And I am
ashamed to say that when it was for a real estate mogul in the
private sector, I considered it trivial. As the President, I
consider it significant and dangerous.
In the mix, lying for Mr. Trump was normalized, and no one
around him questioned it. In fairness, no one around him today
questions it either. A lot of people have asked me about
whether Mr. Trump knew about the release of the hacked
documents, the Democratic National Committee emails ahead of
time. And the answer is yes.
As I earlier stated, Mr. Trump knew from Roger Stone in
advance about the WikiLeaks drop of emails. In July 2016, days
before the Democratic Convention, I was in Mr. Trump's office
when his secretary announced that Roger Stone was on the phone.
Mr. Trump put Mr. Stone on the speaker phone. Mr. Stone told
Mr. Trump that he had just gotten off the phone with Julian
Assange, and that Mr. Assange told Mr. Stone that within a
couple of days, there would be a massive dump of emails that
would damage Hillary Clinton's campaign.
Mr. Trump responded by stating to the effect, Wouldn't that
be great.
Mr. Trump is a racist. The country has seen Mr. Trump court
white supremacists and bigots. You have heard him call poorer
countries shitholes. His private--in private he is even worse.
He once asked me if I can name a country run by a black
person that wasn't a shithole. This was when Barack Obama was
President of the United States. And while we were once driving
through a struggling neighborhood in Chicago, he commented that
only black people could live that way. And he told me that
black people would never vote for him because they were too
stupid. And yet, I continued to work for him.
Mr. Trump is a cheat. As previously stated, I am giving to
the committee today three years of Mr. Trump's personal
financial statements from 2011, 2012, and 2013, which he gave
to Deutsche Bank to inquire about a loan to buy the Buffalo
Bills and to Forbes. These are exhibits 1A, 1B,and 1C to my
testimony. [Exhibits are available at: https://
oversight.house.gov/sites/democrats.oversight.house.gov/files/
Michael%20Cohen.02.27.2019.Exhibits.pdf.]
It was my experience that Mr. Trump inflated his total
assets when it served his purposes, such as trying to be listed
amongst the wealthiest people in Forbes and deflated his assets
to reduce his real estate taxes.
I'm sharing with you two newspaper articles side-by-side
that are examples of Mr. Trump inflating and deflating his
assets, as I said, to suit his financial interests. These are
exhibit 2 to my testimony.
As I noted, I'm giving the committee today an article he
wrote on and sent to me that reported on an auction of a
portrait of Mr. Trump. This is exhibit 3A to my testimony. Mr.
Trump directed me to find a straw bidder to purchase a portrait
of him that was being auctioned off at an art Hampton's event.
The objective was to ensure that this portrait, which was going
to be auctioned last, would go for the highest price of any
portrait that afternoon. The portrait was purchased by the fake
bidder for $60,000.
Mr. Trump directed the Trump Foundation, which is supposed
to be a charitable organization, to repay the fake bidder,
despite keeping the art for himself. And please see exhibit 3B
to my testimony.
It should come as no surprise that one of my more common
responsibilities was that Mr. Trump directed me to call
business owners, many of whom are small businesses, that were
owed money for their services and told them that no payment or
a reduced payment would be coming. When I asked Mr. Trump--or
when I told Mr. Trump of my success, he actually reveled in it.
And yet, I continued to work for him.
Mr. Trump is a con man. He asked me to pay off an adult
film star with whom he had an affair, and to lie about it to
his wife, which I did. And lying to the First Lady is one of my
biggest regrets, because she is a kind, good person, and I
respect her greatly. And she did not deserve that.
I am giving the committee today a copy of the $130,000 wire
transfer from me to Ms. Clifford's attorney during the closing
days of the Presidential campaign that was demanded by Ms.
Clifford to maintain her silence about her affair with Mr.
Trump. And this is exhibit 4 to my testimony.
Mr. Trump directed me to use my own personal funds from a
home equity line of credit to avoid any money being traced back
to him that could negatively impact his campaign. And I did
that too, without bothering to consider whether that was
improper much less whether it was the right thing to do, or how
it would impact me, my family, or the public. And I am going to
jail, in part, because of my decision to help Mr. Trump hide
that payment from the American people before they voted a few
days later.
As exhibit 5A to my testimony shows, I am providing a copy
of a $35,000 check that President Trump personally signed from
his personal bank account on August 1 of 2017, when he was
President of the United States, pursuant to the coverup which
was the basis of my guilty plea to reimburse me, the word used
by Mr. Trump's TV lawyer for the illegal hush money I paid on
his behalf.
This $35,000 check was one of 11 check installments that
was paid throughout the year while he was President. Other
checks to reimburse me for the hush money payments were signed
by Donald Trump, Jr., and Allen Weisselberg. And see that
example, 5B.
The President of the United States thus wrote a personal
check for the payment of hush money as part of a criminal
scheme to violate campaign finance laws. And you can find the
details of that scheme directed by Mr. Trump in the pleadings
in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New
York.
So picture this scene. In February 2017, one month into his
presidency, I'm visiting President Trump in the oval office for
the first time, and it's truthfully awe-inspiring. He's showing
me all around and pointing to different paintings. And he says
to me something to the effect of, Don't worry, Michael. Your
January and February reimbursement checks are coming. They were
FedEx'd from New York. And it takes a while for that to get
through the White House system.
As he promised, I received the first check for the
reimbursement of $70,000 not long thereafter.
When I say con man, I'm talking about a man who declares
himself brilliant, but directed me to threaten his high school,
his colleges, and the College Board to never release his grades
or SAT scores. As I mentioned, I'm giving the committee today
copies of a letter I sent at Mr. Trump's direction, threatening
these schools with civil and criminal actions if Mr. Trump's
grades or SAT scores were ever disclosed without his
permission. And these are under exhibit 6.
The irony wasn't lost on me at the time that Mr. Trump, in
2011, had strongly criticized President Obama for not releasing
his grades. As you can see in exhibit 7, Mr. Trump declared,
Let him show his records, after calling President Obama a
terrible student.
The sad fact is that I never heard Mr. Trump say anything
in private that led me to believe he loved our Nation or wanted
to make it better. In fact, he did the opposite. When telling
me in 2008 or 2009 that he was cutting employees' salaries in
half, including mine. He showed me what he claimed was a $10
million IRS tax refund. And he said that he could not believe
how stupid the government was for giving someone like him that
much money back.
During the campaign, Mr. Trump said that he did not
consider Vietnam veteran and prisoner of war, Senator John
McCain, to be a hero because he likes people who weren't
captured. At the same time, Mr. Trump tasked me to handle the
negative press surrounding his medical deferment from the
Vietnam draft.
Mr. Trump claimed it was because of a bone spur. But when I
asked for medical records, he gave me none and said that there
was no surgery. He told me not to answer the specific questions
by reporters, but rather, offer simply the fact that he
received a medical deferment. He finished the conversation with
the following comment. ``You think I'm stupid? I'm not going to
Vietnam.'' And I find it ironic, Mr. President, that you are in
Vietnam right now. And yet, I continued to work for him.
The questions have been raised about whether I know of
direct evidence that Mr. Trump or his campaign colluded with
Russia. I do not. And I want to be clear. But I have my
suspicions.
Sometime in the summer of 2017, I read all over the media
that there had been a meeting in Trump Tower in June 2016
involving Don Jr. and others from the campaign with Russians,
including a representative of the Russian Government, and an
email setting up the meeting with the subject line, Dirt on
Hillary Clinton.
Something clicked in my mind. I remembered being in a room
with Mr. Trump, probably in early June 2016, when something
peculiar happened. Don Trump, Jr. came into the room and walked
behind his father's desk, which in and of itself was unusual.
People didn't just walk behind Mr. Trump's desk to talk to him.
I recalled Don Jr. leaning over to his father and speaking
in a low voice, which I could clearly hear, and saying, The
meeting is all set. And I remember Mr. Trump saying, ``OK.
Good. Let me know.''
What struck me as I look back and thought about the
exchange between Don Jr. and his father was, first, that Mr.
Trump had frequently told me and others that his son Don Jr.
had the worst judgment of anyone in the world. And also that
Don Jr. would never set up any meeting of significance alone,
and certainly not without checking with his father.
I also knew that nothing went on in Trump world, especially
the campaign, without Mr. Trump's knowledge and approval. So I
concluded that Don Jr. was referring to that June 2016 Trump
Tower meeting about dirt on Hillary with the Russian
representatives when he walked behind his dad's desk that day,
and that Mr. Trump knew that was the meeting Don Jr. was
talking about when he said, That's good. Let me know.
Over the past year or so, I have done some real soul
searching. And I see now that my ambition and the intoxication
of Trump power had much to do with the bad decisions in part
that I made. And to you, Chairman Cummings and Ranking Member
Jordan, the other members of this committee, the members of the
House and Senate, I am sorry for my lies and for lying to
Congress. And to our Nation, I am sorry for actively working to
hide from you the truth about Mr. Trump when you needed it
most.
For those who question my motives for being here today, I
understand. I have lied. But I am not a liar. And I have done
bad things, but I am not a bad man. I have fixed things, but I
am no longer your fixer, Mr. Trump. And I am going to prison
and have shattered the safety and security that I tried so hard
to provide for my family.
My testimony certainly does not diminish the pain that I
have caused my family and my friends. Nothing can do that. And
I have never asked for, nor would I accept a pardon from
President Trump.
By coming today, I have caused my family to be the target
of personal, scurrilous attacks by the President and his lawyer
trying to intimidate me from appearing before this panel.
Mr. Trump called me a rat for choosing to tell the truth,
much like a mobster would do when one of his men decides to
cooperate with the government. And as exhibit 8 shows, I have
provided the committee with copies of tweets that Mr. Trump
posted attacking me and my family. Only someone burying his
head in the sand would not recognize them for what they are.
It's encouragement to someone to do harm to me and my family.
I never imagined that he would engage in vicious, false
attacks on my family, and unleash his TV lawyer to do the same.
And I hope this committee, and all Members of Congress on both
sides of the aisle, make it clear that, as a Nation, we should
not tolerate attempts to intimidate witnesses before Congress,
and attacks on family are out of bounds and not acceptable.
I wish to especially thank Speaker Pelosi for her
statements, it's exhibit 9, to protect this institution and me,
and the chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on
Intelligence, Adam Schiff, and you, Chairman Cummings, for
likewise defending the institution and my family against the
attacks by Mr. Trump, and also the many Republicans who have
admonished the President as well.
I am not a perfect man. I have done things I am not proud
of. And I will live with the consequences of my actions for the
rest of my life. But today, I get to decide the example that I
set for my children, and how I attempt to change how history
will remember me. I may not be able to change the past, but I
can do right by the American people here today.
I thank you for your attention, and I'm happy to answer the
committee's questions.
[Prepared Statement of Mr. Cohen follows:]
WRITTEN TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL D. COHEN COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
AND REFORM U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
FEBRUARY 27, 2019
Chairman Cummings, Ranking Member Jordan, and Members of the
Committee, thank you for inviting me here today.
I have asked this Committee to ensure that my family be protected
from Presidential threats, and that the Committee be sensitive to the
questions pertaining to ongoing investigations. Thank you for your help
and for your understanding.
I am here under oath to correct the record, to answer the
Committee's questions truthfully, and to offer the American people what
I know about President Trump.
I recognize that some of you may doubt and attack me on my
credibility. It is for this reason that I have incorporated into this
opening statement documents that are irrefutable, and demonstrate that
the information you will hear is accurate and truthful.
Never in a million years did I imagine, when I accepted a job in
2007 to work for Donald Trump, that he would one day run for President,
launch a campaign on a platform of hate and intolerance, and actually
win. I regret the day I said yes to Mr. Trump. I regret all the help
and support I gave him along the way.
I am ashamed of my own failings, and I publicly accepted
responsibility for them by pleading guilty in the Southern District of
New York.
I am ashamed of my weakness and misplaced loyalty -- of the things
I did for Mr. Trump in an effort to protect and promote him.
I am ashamed that I chose to take part in concealing Mr. Trump's
illicit acts rather than listening to my own conscience.
I am ashamed because I know what Mr. Trump is.
He is a racist.
He is a conman.
He is a cheat.
He was a presidential candidate who knew that Roger Stone was
talking with Julian Assange about a WikiLeaks drop of Democratic
National Committee emails.
I will explain each in a few moments.
I am providing the Committee today with several documents. These
include:
A copy of a check Mr. Trump wrote from his personal bank
account -- after he became president -- to reimburse me for the hush
money payments I made to cover up his affair with an adult film star
and prevent damage to his campaign;
Copies of financial statements for 2011 - 2013 that he
gave to such institutions as Deutsche Bank;
A copy of an article with Mr. Trump's handwriting on it
that reported on the auction of a portrait of himself -- he arranged
for the bidder ahead of time and then reimbursed the bidder from the
account of his non-profit charitable foundation, with the picture now
hanging in one of his country clubs; and
Copies of letters I wrote at Mr. Trump's direction that
threatened his high school, colleges, and the College Board not to
release his grades or SAT scores.
I hope my appearance here today, my guilty plea, and my work with
law enforcement agencies are steps along a path of redemption that will
restore faith in me and help this country understand our president
better.
* * * * * * *
Before going further, I want to apologize to each of you and to
Congress as a whole.
The last time I appeared before Congress, I came to protect Mr.
Trump. Today, I'm here to tell the truth about Mr. Trump.
I lied to Congress about when Mr. Trump stopped negotiating the
Moscow Tower project in Russia. I stated that we stopped negotiating in
January 2016. That was false -- our negotiations continued for months
later during the campaign.
Mr. Trump did not directly tell me to lie to Congress. That's not
how he operates.
In conversations we had during the campaign, at the same time I was
actively negotiating in Russia for him, he would look me in the eye and
tellme there's no business in Russia and then go out and lie to the
American people by saying the same thing. In his way, he was telling me
to lie.
There were at least a half-dozen times between the Iowa Caucus in
January 2016 and the end of June when he would ask me "it going in
Russia?" referring to the Moscow Tower project.
You need to know that Mr. Trump's personal lawyers reviewed and
edited my statement to Congress about the timing of the Moscow Tower
negotiations before I gave it.
To be clear: Mr. Trump knew of and directed the Trump Moscow
negotiations throughout the campaign and lied about it. He lied about
it because he never expected to win the election. He also lied about it
because he stood to make hundreds of millions of dollars on the Moscow
real estate project.
And so I lied about it, too -- because Mr. Trump had made clear to
me, through his personal statements to me that we both knew were false
and through his lies to the country, that he wanted me to lie. And he
made itclear to me because his personal attorneys reviewed my statement
before I gave it to Congress.
* * * * * * *
Over the past two years, I have been smeared as "a rat" by the
President of the United States. The truth is much different, and let me
take a brief moment to introduce myself.
My name is Michael Dean Cohen.
I am a blessed husband of 24 years and a father to an incredible
daughter and son. When I married my wife, I promised her that I would
love her, cherish her, and protect her. As my father said countless
times throughout my childhood, "you my wife, and you my children, are
the air that I breathe." To my Laura, my Sami, and my Jake, there is
nothing I wouldn't do to protect you.
I have always tried to live a life of loyalty, friendship,
generosity, and compassion -- qualities my parents ingrained in my
siblings and me since childhood. My father survived the Holocaust
thanks to the compassion and selfless acts of others. He was helped by
many who put themselves in harm's way to do what they knew was right.
That is why my first instinct has always been to help those in
need. Mom and Dad...I am sorry that I let you down.
As many people that know me best would say, I am the person they
would call at 3AM if they needed help. I proudly remember being the
emergency contact for many of my children's friends when they were
growing up because their parents knew that I would drop everything and
care for them as if they were my own.
Yet, last fall I pled guilty in federal court to felonies for the
benefit of, at the direction of, and in coordination with Individual
#1.
For the record: Individual #1 is President Donald J. Trump.
It is painful to admit that I was motivated by ambition at times.
It is even more painful to admit that many times I ignored my
conscience and acted loyal to a man when I should not have. Sitting
here today, it seems unbelievable that I was so mesmerized by Donald
Trump that I was willing to do things for him that I knew were
absolutely wrong.
For that reason, I have come here to apologize to my family, to the
government, and to the American people.
* * * * * * *
Accordingly, let me now tell you about Mr. Trump.
I got to know him very well, working very closely with him for more
than 10 years, as his Executive Vice President and Special Counsel and
then personal attorney when he became President. When I first met Mr.
Trump, he was a successful entrepreneur, a real estate giant, and an
icon. Being around Mr. Trump was intoxicating. When you were in his
presence, you felt like you were involved in something greater than
yourself -- that you were somehow changing the world.
I wound up touting the Trump narrative for over a decade. That was
my job. Always stay on message. Always defend. It monopolized my life.
At first, I worked mostly on real estate developments and other
business transactions. Shortly thereafter, Mr. Trump brought me into
his personal life and private dealings. Over time, I saw his true
character revealed.
Mr. Trump is an enigma. He is complicated, as am I. He has both
good and bad, as do we all. But the bad far outweighs the good, and
since taking office, he has become the worst version of himself. He is
capable of behaving kindly, but he is not kind. He is capable of
committing acts of generosity, but he is not generous. He is capable of
being loyal, but he is fundamentally disloyal.
Donald Trump is a man who ran for office to make his brand great,
not to make our country great. He had no desire or intention to lead
this nation -- only to market himself and to build his wealth and
power. Mr. Trump would often say, this campaign was going to be the
"greatest infomercial in political history."
He never expected to win the primary. He never expected to win the
general election. The campaign -- for him -- was always a marketing
opportunity.
I knew early on in my work for Mr. Trump that he would direct me to
lie to further his business interests. I am ashamed to say, that when
it was for a real estate mogul in the private sector, I considered it
trivial. As the President, I consider it significant and dangerous.
But in the mix, lying for Mr. Trump was normalized, and no one
around him questioned it. In fairness, no one around him today
questions it, either.
A lot of people have asked me about whether Mr. Trump knew about
the release of the hacked Democratic National Committee emails ahead of
time. The answer is yes.
As I earlier stated, Mr. Trump knew from Roger Stone in advance
about the WikiLeaks drop of emails.
In July 2016, days before the Democratic convention, I was in Mr.
Trump's office when his secretary announced that Roger Stone was on the
phone. Mr. Trump put Mr. Stone on the speakerphone. Mr. Stone told Mr.
Trump that he had just gotten off the phone with Julian Assange and
that Mr. Assange told Mr. Stone that, within a couple of days, there
would be a massive dump of emails that would damage Hillary Clinton's
campaign.
Mr. Trump responded by stating to the effect of "wouldn't that be
great."
Mr. Trump is a racist. The country has seen Mr. Trump court white
supremacists and bigots. You have heard him call poorer countries
"shitholes."
In private, he is even worse.
He once asked me if I could name a country run by a black person
that wasn't a "shithole." This was when Barack Obama was President of
the United States.
While we were once driving through a struggling neighborhood in
Chicago, he commented that only black people could live that way.
And, he told me that black people would never vote for him because
they were too stupid.
And yet I continued to work for him.
Mr. Trump is a cheat.
As previously stated, I'm giving the Committee today three years of
President Trump's financial statements, from 2011-2013, which he gave
to Deutsche Bank to inquire about a loan to buy the Buffalo Bills and
to Forbes. These are Exhibits 1a, 1b, and 1c to my testimony.
It was my experience that Mr. Trump inflated his total assets when
it served his purposes, such as trying to be listed among the
wealthiest people in Forbes, and deflated his assets to reduce his real
estate taxes.
I am sharing with you two newspaper articles, side by side, that
are examples of Mr. Trump inflating and deflating his assets, as I
said, to suit his financial interests. These are Exhibit 2 to my
testimony.
As I noted, I'm giving the Committee today an article he wrote on,
and sent me, that reported on an auction of a portrait of Mr. Trump.
This is Exhibit3A to my testimony.
Mr. Trump directed me to find a straw bidder to purchase a portrait
of him that was being auctioned at an Art Hamptons Event. The objective
was to ensure that his portrait, which was going to be auctioned last,
would go for the highest price of any portrait that afternoon. The
portrait was purchased by the fake bidder for $60,000. Mr. Trump
directed the Trump Foundation, which is supposed to be a charitable
organization, to repay the fake bidder, despite keeping the art for
himself. Please see Exhibit 3B to my testimony.
And it should come as no surprise that one of my more common
responsibilities was that Mr. Trump directed me to call business
owners, many of whom were small businesses, that were owed money for
their services and told them no payment or a reduced payment would be
coming. When I advised Mr. Trump of my success, he actually reveled in
it.
And yet, I continued to work for him.
Mr. Trump is a conman.
He asked me to pay off an adult film star with whom he had an
affair, and to lie to his wife about it, which I did. Lying to the
First Lady is one of my biggest regrets. She is a kind, good person. I
respect her greatly -- and she did not deserve that.
I am giving the Committee today a copy of the $130,000 wire
transfer from me to Ms. Clifford's attorney during the closing days of
the presidential campaign that was demanded by Ms. Clifford to maintain
her silence about her affair with Mr. Trump. This is Exhibit 4 to my
testimony.
Mr. Trump directed me to use my own personal funds from a Home
Equity Line of Credit to avoid any money being traced back to him that
could negatively impact his campaign. I did that, too -- without
bothering to consider whether that was improper, much less whether it
was the right thing to do or how it would impact me, my family, or the
public.
I am going to jail in part because of my decision to help Mr. Trump
hide that payment from the American people before they voted a few days
later.
As Exhibit 5 to my testimony shows, I am providing a copy of a
$35,000 check that President Trump personally signed from his personal
bank account on August 1, 2017 -- when he was President of the United
States -- pursuant to the cover-up, which was the basis of my guilty
plea, to reimburse me -- the word used by Mr. Trump's TV lawyer -- for
the illegal hush money I paid on his behalf. This $35,000 check was one
of 11 check installments that was paid throughout the year -- while he
was President.
The President of the United States thus wrote a personal check for
the payment of hush money as part of a criminal scheme to violate
campaign finance laws. You can find the details of that scheme,
directed by Mr. Trump, in the pleadings in the U.S. District Court for
the Southern District of New York.
So picture this scene -- in February 2017, one month into his
presidency, I'm visiting President Trump in the Oval Office for the
first time. It's truly awe-inspiring, he's showing me around and
pointing to different paintings, and he says to me something to the
effect of ...Don't worry, Michael, your January and February
reimbursement checks are coming. They were Fed- Exed from New York and
it takes a while for that to get through the White House system." As he
promised, I received the first check for the reimbursement of $70,000
not long thereafter.
When I say conman, I'm talking about a man who declares himself
brilliant but directed me to threaten his high school, his colleges,
and the College Board to never release his grades or SAT scores.
As I mentioned, I'm giving the Committee today copies of a letter I
sent at Mr. Trump's direction threatening these schools with civil and
criminal actions if Mr. Trump's grades or SAT scores were ever
disclosed without his permission. These are Exhibit 6.
The irony wasn't lost on me at the time that Mr. Trump in 2011 had
strongly criticized President Obama for not releasing his grades. As
you can see in Exhibit 7, Mr. Trump declared "Let him show his records"
after calling President Obama "a terrible student."
The sad fact is that I never heard Mr. Trump say anything in
private that led me to believe he loved our nation or wanted to make it
better. In fact, he did the opposite.
When telling me in 2008 that he was cutting employees' salaries in
half including mine he showed me what he claimed was a $10 million IRS
tax refund, and he said that he could not believe how stupid the
government was for giving "someone like him" that much money back.
During the campaign, Mr. Trump said he did not consider Vietnam
Veteran, and Prisoner of War, Senator John McCain to be "a hero"
because he likes people who weren't captured. At the same time, Mr.
Trump tasked me to handle the negative press surrounding his medical
deferment from the Vietnam draft.
Mr. Trump claimed it was because of a bone spur, but when I asked
for medical records, he gave me none and said there was no surgery. He
told me not to answer the specific questions by reporters but rather
offer simply the fact that he received a medical deferment.
He finished the conversation with the following comment. "You think
I'm stupid, I wasn't going to Vietnam."I find it ironic, President
Trump, that you are in Vietnam right now. And yet, I continued to work
for him.
* * * * * * *
Questions have been raised about whether I know of direct evidence
that Mr. Trump or his campaign colluded with Russia. I do not. I want
to be clear. But, I have my suspicions.
Sometime in the summer of 2017, I read all over the media that
there had been a meeting in Trump Tower in June 2016 involving Don Jr.
and others from the campaign with Russians, including a representative
of the Russian government, and an email setting up the meeting with the
subject line, "Dirt on Hillary Clinton." Something clicked in my mind.
I remember being in the room with Mr. Trump, probably in early June
2016, when something peculiar happened. Don Jr. came into the room and
walked behind his father' desk -- which in itself was unusual. People
didn't just walk behind Mr. Trump's desk to talk to him. I recalled Don
Jr. leaning over to his father and speaking in a low voice, which I
could clearly hear, and saying: "The meeting is all set."I remember Mr.
Trump saying, "Ok good...let me know."
What struck me as I looked back and thought about that exchange
between Don Jr. and his father was, first, that Mr. Trump had
frequently told me and others that his son Don Jr. had the worst
judgment of anyone in theworld. And also, that Don Jr. would never set
up any meeting of any significance alone -- and certainly not without
checking with his father.I also knew that nothing went on in Trump
world, especially the campaign, without Mr. Trump's knowledge and
approval. So, I concluded that Don Jr. was referring to that June 2016
Trump Tower meeting about dirt on Hillary with the Russian
representative when he walked behind his dad's desk that day -- and
that Mr. Trump knew that was the meeting Don Jr. was talking about when
he said, "That's good...let me know."
* * * * * * *
Over the past year or so, I have done some real soul searching. I
see now that my ambition and the intoxication of Trump power had much
to do with the bad decisions I made.
To you, Chairman Cummings, Ranking Member Jordan, the other members
of this Committee, and the other members of the House and Senate, I am
sorry for my lies and for lying to Congress.
To our nation, I am sorry for actively working to hide from you the
truth about Mr. Trump when you needed it most.
For those who question my motives for being here today, I
understand. I have lied, but I am not a liar. I have done bad things,
but I am not a bad man. I have fixed things, but I am no longer your
"fixer," Mr. Trump.
I am going to prison and have shattered the safety and security
that I tried so hard to provide for my family. My testimony certainly
does not diminishthe pain I caused my family and friends -- nothing can
do that. And I have never asked for, nor would I accept, a pardon from
President Trump.
And, by coming today, I have caused my family to be the target of
personal, scurrilous attacks by the President and his lawyer -- trying
to intimidate me from appearing before this panel. Mr. Trump called me
a "rat" for choosing to tell the truth -- much like a mobster would do
when one of his men decides to cooperate with the government.
As Exhibit 8 shows, I have provided the Committee with copies of
Tweets that Mr. Trump posted, attacking me and my family -- only
someone burying his head in the sand would not recognize them for what
they are: encouragement to someone to do harm to me and my family.
I never imagined that he would engage in vicious, false attacks on
my family -- and unleash his TV-lawyer to do the same. I hope this
committee and all members of Congress on both sides of the aisle will
make it clear: As a nation, we should not tolerate attempts to
intimidate witnesses before congress and attacks on family are out of
bounds and not acceptable.
I wish to especially thank Speaker Pelosi for her statements in
Exhibit 9 to protect this institution and me, and the Chairman of the
House PermanentSelect Committee on Intelligence Adam Schiff and
Chairman Cummings for likewise defending this institution and my family
against the attacks by Mr. Trump, and also the many Republicans who
have admonished the President as well.
I am not a perfect man. I have done things I am not proud of, and I
will live with the consequences of my actions for the rest of my life.
But today, I get to decide the example I set for my children and
how I attempt to change how history will remember me. I may not be able
to change the past, but I can do right by the American people here
today.
Thank you for your attention. I am happy to answer the Committee's
questions.
Chairman Cummings. Thank you very much, Mr. Cohen. I now
recognize myself.
Mr. Cohen, before I start, I want to make sure you really
understand something. You have admitted lying to Congress, to
this very body, and now you're going to prison for it.
Do you, Mr. Cohen, recognize the gravity of your offenses?
You are a lawyer, right?
Mr. Cohen. As of yesterday, I am no longer a lawyer. I have
lost my law license, amongst other things.
Chairman Cummings. But you understand the gravity of this
moment?
Mr. Cohen. I most certainly do, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. I want you to really hear this, Mr.
Cohen. We will not tolerate lying to this Congress by anybody.
We're in search of the truth.
Do you understand that?
Mr. Cohen. I do.
Chairman Cummings. The President has also made numerous
statements that turned out to be inaccurate. For example, he
said he knew nothing about the hush money payments to Ms.
Clifford. And his 2017 financial disclosure form said he never
owed money to reimburse you for those payments. Yet in your
testimony, Mr. Cohen, you said that you met with the President
in the Oval Office in February 2017 and discussed his plans to
reimburse you for money you paid.
You say he told you, and I quote, ``Don't worry, Michael.
Your January and February reimbursement checks are coming.'' Is
that accurate? And was that in the oval office?
Mr. Cohen. The statement is accurate, but the discussions
regarding the reimbursement occurred long before he became
President.
Chairman Cummings. Would you explain that?
Mr. Cohen. Back in 2017 when--actually, I apologize. In
2016, prior to the election, I was contacted by Keith Davidson,
who is the attorney--or was the attorney for Ms. Clifford, or
Stormy Daniels.
And after several rounds of conversations with him about
purchasing her life rights for $130,000, what I did, each and
every time, is go straight into Mr. Trump's office and discuss
the issue with him, when it was ultimately determined, and this
was days before the election, that Mr. Trump was going to pay
the $130,000, in the office with me was Allen Weisselberg, the
chief financial officer of the Trump Organization. He
acknowledged to Allen that he was going to pay the 130,000, and
that Allen and I should go back to his office and figure out
how to do it.
So, yes, sir I stand by the statement that I gave, but
there was a history to it.
Chairman Cummings. In your testimony, you said you bought
some checks; is that right?
You said you brought some checks?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, sir.
Chairman Cummings. Let me ask you about one of these.
This is from the Trump Trust that holds the President's
businesses, can you tell me who signed this check?
Mr. Cohen. I believe that the top signature is Donald
Trump, Jr., and that the bottom signature, I believe, is Allen
Weisselberg's.
Chairman Cummings. And can you tell me the date of that
check?
Mr. Cohen. March 17 of 2017.
Chairman Cummings. Now, wait, wait a minute. Hold up. The
date on the check is after President Trump held his big press
conference claiming that he gave up control of his businesses.
How could the President have arranged for you to get this check
if he was supposedly playing no role in his business?
Mr. Cohen. Because the payments were designed to be paid
over the course of 12 months, and it was declared to be a
retainer for services that would be provided for the year of
2017.
Chairman Cummings. Was there a retainer agreement?
Mr. Cohen. There was no retainer agreement.
Chairman Cummings. Would Don Jr. or Mr. Weisselberg have
more information about that?
Mr. Cohen. Mr. Weisselberg for sure about the entire
discussions and negotiations prior to the election, and Don Jr.
would have cursory information.
Chairman Cummings. Now here's another one. This one appears
to be signed by Donald Trump himself. Is that his signature?
Mr. Cohen. That is Donald Trump's signature.
Chairman Cummings. So let me make sure I understand. Donald
Trump wrote you a check out of his personal account while he
was serving as President of the United States of America to
reimburse you for hush money payments to Ms. Clifford. Is that
what you are telling the American people today?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. One final question. The President
claimed he knew nothing about these payments. His ethics filing
said he owed nothing to you. Based on your conversations with
him is there any doubt in your mind that President Trump knew
exactly what he was paying for?
Mr. Cohen. There is no doubt in my mind, and I truly
believe there is no doubt in the mind of the people of the
United States of America.
Chairman Cummings. And these new documents appear to
corroborate what you just told us.
With that, I will yield to the gentleman from Ohio.
Mr. Jordan. I will make sure that you and I meet one day
while we are in the courthouse, and I will take you for every
penny you still don't have, and I will come after your Daily
Beast and everybody else that you possibly know. So I am
warning you, tread very f'ing lightly because what I am going
to do to you is going to be f'ing disgusting. Do you understand
me?
Mr. Cohen, who said that.
Mr. Cohen. I did.
Mr. Jordan. And did you say that, Mr. Cohen--in your
testimony on page 2 you said you did things for Mr. Trump in an
effort to protect him. Was that Statement that I just read that
you admitted to saying, did you do that to protect Donald
Trump?
Mr. Cohen. I did it to protect Mr. Trump, Donald Trump,
Jr., Ivanka Trump, and Eric Trump.
Mr. Jordan. And in your sentencing statement back in
December in front of the judge you said this, Mr. Cohen: My
weakness can be characterized as a blind loyalty to Donald
Trump, a blind loyalty that led me to choose a path of
darkness. Is that accurate, Mr. Cohen?
Mr. Cohen. I wrote that.
Mr. Jordan. You wrote that and said that in front of the
judge. Is that right?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Mr. Jordan. Let me read a few other things here, and let me
ask you why you did some of these things.
When you filed a false tax return in 2012, 2013, 2014,
2015, and 2016, was all that out of blind loyalty to the
President?
Mr. Cohen. No, it was not.
Mr.Jordan. When you failed to report $4 million in income
to the Internal Revenue Service did you do that to protect
Donald Trump?
Mr. Cohen. No, I did not.
Mr. Jordan. And when you failed to pay $1.4 million in
taxes -- I got constituents who don't make that in a lifetime
-- when you failed to pay $1.4 million in taxes to the U.S.
Treasury was that out of some blind loyalty to the President of
the United States?
Mr. Cohen. It was not. But the number was 1.38 and change,
and I have paid that money back to the IRS at this time.
Mr. Jordan. I think the American people will appreciate
that 1.38 versus 1.4.
Mr. Cohen. And I would also just like to say it was over a
course of five years, approximately $260,000 a year.
Mr. Jordan. That's what I said, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015,
that's five years.
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Jordan. Got it. When you made false statements to
financial institutions concerning a home equity line of credit,
taxi medallions, and your Park Avenue apartment in 2013, 2014,
and 2015, you pled guilty to making those false statements to
those banks, was that all done to protect the President?
Mr. Cohen. No, it was not.
Mr. Jordan. How about this one. When you created the fake
Twitter account Women for Cohen and paid a firm to post tweets
like this one, ``In a world of lies, deception, and fraud we
appreciate this honest guy @MichaelCohen, #TGIF, #handsome,
#sexy,'' was that done to protect the President?
Mr. Cohen. Mr. Jordan, I didn't actually set that up. It
was done by a young lady that worked for RedFinch. And during
the course of the campaign, which you would know, it is
somewhat crazy and wild. We were having fun. That's what it
was, sir. We were having fun.
Mr. Jordan. Was it done to protect the President?
Mr. Cohen. That was not done to protect the President.
Mr. Jordan. Was it a fake Twitter account?
Mr. Cohen. That was--no, that was a real Twitter account.
It exists.
Mr. Jordan. Did you pay a firm to create this Twitter
account Women for Cohen?
Mr. Cohen. I didn't pay the firm to do that. It was done by
a young lady that works for the firm. And, again, sir, we were
having fun during a stressful time.
Mr. Jordan. The point is, Mr. Cohen, did you lie to protect
the President or did you lie to help yourself?
Mr. Cohen. I'm not sure how that helped me, sir.
Mr. Jordan. I'm not sure how it did either.
Mr. Cohen. Right.
Mr. Jordan. The point is I think----
Mr. Cohen. And I would like to also note that more than
half the people----
Mr. Jordan. And here's the point----
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. on that site are men.
Mr. Jordan. Here's the point. The chairman just gave you a
30-minute opening statement, and you have a history of lying
over and over and over again.
And, frankly, don't take my word for it, take what the
court said, take what the Southern District of New York said:
Cohen did crimes that were marked by a pattern of deception and
that permeated his professional life. These crimes were
distinct in their harms but bear a common set of circumstances.
They each involved deception and were each, each motivated by
personal greed and ambition.
A pattern of deception for personal greed and ambition. And
you just got 30 minutes of an opening statement where you
trashed the President of the United States of America.
Mr. Cohen, how long did you work for Donald Trump?
Mr. Cohen. Approximately a decade.
Mr. Jordan. Ten years?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Mr. Jordan. And you said all these bad things about the
President there in that last 30 minutes, and yet you worked for
him for 10 years? All those bad things. I mean, if it is that
bad I can see you working for him for 10 days, maybe 10 weeks,
maybe even 10 months, but you worked for him for 10 years.
Mr. Cohen, how long did you work in the White House?
Mr. Cohen. I never worked in the White House.
Mr. Jordan. And that's the point, isn't it, Mr. Cohen?
Mr. Cohen. No, sir.
Mr. Jordan. Yes, it is.
Mr. Cohen. No, it is not, sir.
Mr. Jordan. You wanted to work in the White House----
Mr. Cohen. No, sir.
Mr. Jordan [continuing]. and you didn't get brought to the
dance. And now----
Mr. Cohen. Sir, I was extremely proud to be personal
attorney to the President of the United States of America. I
did not want to go to the White House. I was offered jobs. I
can tell you a story of Mr. Trump reaming out Reince Priebus
because I had not taken a job where Mr. Trump wanted me to,
which is working with Don McGahn at the White House General
Counsel's Office.
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Cohen, you worked for the President for----
Mr. Cohen. Sir, one second. All right. What I said at the
time, and I brought a lawyer in who produced a memo as to why I
should not go in, because there would be no attorney-client
privilege.
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Cohen----
Mr. Cohen. And in order to handle some of the matters that
I talked about in my opening, that it would be best suited for
me not to go in and that every President had a personal
attorney.
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Cohen, here's what I see, here's what I
see. I see a guy who worked for 10 years and is here trashing
the guy he worked for for 10 years, didn't get a job in the
White House, and now--and now you are behaving just like
everyone else who's got fired or didn't get the job they
wanted, like Andy McCabe, like James Comey, same kind of
selfish motivation after you don't get the thing you want.
That's what I see here today, and I think that's what the
American people see.
Mr. Cohen. Mr. Jordan, all I wanted was what I got, to be
personal attorney to the President, to enjoy the senior year of
my son in high school and waiting for my daughter who is
graduating from college to come back to New York. I got exactly
what I want.
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Jordan. Exactly what you want?
Mr. Cohen. What I wanted. That's right.
Mr. Jordan. You are going to prison.
Mr. Cohen. I received exactly what I wanted.
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Cohen, thank you for being here today.
As you likely know, I served as the chair of the Democratic
National Committee at the time of the Russian hacks and when
Russia weaponized the messages that it had stolen.
But I want to be clear my questions are not about the harm
done to any individual by WikiLeaks and the Russians, it is
about the possible and likely harm to the United States of
America and our democracy. I have a series of questions that I
hope will connect more of these dots.
Mr. Cohen, is it your testimony that Mr. Trump had advance
knowledge of the Russia-WikiLeaks release of the DNC's emails?
Mr. Cohen. I can't -- I cannot answer that in a yes or no.
He had advance notice that there was going to be a dump of
emails, but at no time did I hear the specificity of what those
emails were going to be.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. But you do testify today that he had
advance knowledge of their imminent release.
Mr. Cohen. That is what I had stated in my testimony.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. And that he shared that outcome?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Did Mr. Trump likely share this
information with his daughter Ivanka, son Don Jr., or Jared
Kushner?
Mr. Cohen. I'm not aware of that.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Was Ivanka, Jared, or Don Jr. still
involved in the Russian Tower deal at that time?
Mr. Cohen. The company was involved in the deal, which
meant that the family was involved in the deal.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. If Mr. Trump and his daughter
Ivanka and son Donald Jr. are involved in the Russian Trump
Tower deal, is it possible the whole family is conflicted or
compromised with a foreign adversary in the months before the
election?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Based on your experience with the
President and knowledge of his relationship with Mr. Stone, do
you have reason to believe that the President explicitly or
implicitly authorized Mr. Stone to make contact with WikiLeaks
and to indicate the campaign's interest in the strategic
release of these illegally hacked materials?
Mr. Cohen. I'm not aware of that.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Was Mr. Stone a free agent reporting
back to the President what he had done or was he an agent of
the campaign acting on behalf of the President and with his
apparent authority?
Mr. Cohen. No, he was a free agent.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. A free agent that was reporting back
to the President what he had done?
Mr. Cohen. Correct. He frequently reached out to Mr. Trump,
and Mr. Trump was very happy to take his calls. It was free
service.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Roger Stone says he never spoke with
Mr. Trump about WikiLeaks. How can we corroborate what you are
saying?
Mr. Cohen. I don't know, but I suspect that the special
counsel's office and other government agencies have the
information that you are seeking.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Moving on to a little later in 2016,
a major WikiLeaks dump happens hours after the Access Hollywood
tape is released. Do you believe or are you aware of Mr. Trump
coordinating or signaling for this email dump?
Mr.Cohen. I'm unaware of that. I actually was not even in
the country at the time of the Billy Bush tape. I was in London
visiting my daughter.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Knowing how Mr. Trump operates with
his winning at all costs mentality, do you believe that he
would cooperate or collude with a foreign power to win the
Presidency? Is he capable of that?
Mr. Cohen. It calls on so much speculation, ma'am, it would
be unfair for me to give an answer to that.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. I understand, but you have a
tremendous amount of experience----
Mr. Cohen. Mr. Trump, he is all about winning, and he will
do what is necessary to win.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. And in your opinion and experience,
would he have the potential to cooperate or collude with a
foreign power to win the Presidency at all costs?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Based on what you know, would Mr.
Trump or did he lie about colluding and coordinating with the
Russians at any point during the campaign?
Mr. Cohen. So as I stated in my testimony, I wouldn't use
the word colluding. Was there something odd about the back and
forth praise with President Putin? Yes. But I'm not really sure
that I can answer that question in terms of collusion.
I was not part of the campaign. I don't know the other
conversations that Mr. Trump had with other individuals.
There's just so many dots that all seem to lead to the same
direction.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Finally, before my time expires, Mr.
Cohen, the campaign and the entire Trump Organization appeared
to be filthy with Russian contacts. There are Russian business
contacts, there are campaign Russian contacts, there are lies
about all of those contacts. And then we have Roger Stone
informing the President just before the Democratic National
Convention that WikiLeaks was going to drop documents in the
public arena that we knew at that point were hacked and stolen
by Russia from the Democratic National Committee.
Chairman Cummings. The gentlelady's time has expired. You
may answer her inquiry quickly.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. My question is, given all those
connections, is it likely that Donald Trump was fully aware and
had every intent of working with Russia to help make sure that
he could win the Presidency at all costs?
Mr. Cohen. So let me say that this is a matter that's
currently being handled by the House Select and the Senate
Select Intelligence Committees, as I would rather not answer
that specific question, other than just to tell you that Mr.
Trump's desire to win would have him work with anyone.
And one other thing that I had said in my statement is that
when it came to the Trump Tower Moscow project, it was worth
hundreds of millions of dollars, and we never expected to win
the election. So this was just business as usual.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Thank you, Mr. Cohen.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
Mr. Green. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Jordan.
The chairman and this committee have promised members of
the American people a fair and open process, yet the Democrats
have vastly limited the scope of this hearing. They issued a
gag order to try to tell members of this committee what we can
and cannot talk about.
My colleagues on the other side of the aisle claim that
they want the truth, that they want transparency and fair
oversight, yet the Democrats' witness to testify before
Congress today is none other than a scorned man who is going to
prison for lying to Congress.
Let that sink in. He is going to prison for lying to
Congress, and he is the star witness to Congress.
If you read the sentencing report on Mr. Cohen words like
``deceptive'' and ``greedy'' are scattered throughout that
report. It paints a picture of a narcissist, a bully who cannot
tell the truth, whether it is about the President or about his
own personal life. But today he is the majority party's star
witness.
If the Democrats were after the truth, they'd have an
honest person here testifying. And if they were really after
the truth, they'd not restrict the questioning to just a few
topics. But let's take a look at those restricted topics.
Mr. Chairman, the first topic in your limited scope that I
can ask Mr. Cohen is about the President's debts. But, Mr.
Chairman, didn't Mr. Cohen plead guilty to lying to banks about
his personal finances? So we are asking a guy going to jail for
lying about his debts to comment about the President's debts.
He is the expert.
Mr. Chairman, your next couple of topics say that I can ask
Mr. Cohen about the President's compliance with financial
disclosures and campaign finance laws. But didn't Mr. Cohen on
two occasions break campaign finance law with his own
donations? So again, the majority party's star witness on the
President's compliance is a guy who broke compliance laws
himself.
Mr. Chairman, you graciously allow us to ask questions of
Mr. Cohen on the President's dealings with the IRS and tax law.
Your star witness here broke the law with regards to the IRS at
least five times. He pled guilty on cheating on his taxes,
lying to the IRS. He's the best witness you got?
Next up, with the permission of the chairman I get to ask
Mr. Cohen about his perspective on the President's business
dealings. Let me get this straight. The witness lied to
multiple financial institutions to get loans to pay off other
loans just to keep himself afloat, and he is going to be the
expert on business practices.
Obviously, Mr. Chairman, the witness may produce documents
that he suggests incriminates the President, yet he lies to
banks. All of those lies were done on fraudulent documents,
documents that he forged. Nothing he says or produces has any
credibility. Apparently he even lied about delivering his own
child, which his wife had to correct the record.
Ladies and gentlemen, how on earth is this witness
credible? With all the lies and deception, the self-serving
fraud, it begs the question, what is the majority party doing
here? No one can see this guy as credible. He will say whatever
he wants to accomplish his own personal goals. He is a fake
witness, and his presence here is a travesty. I hope the
American people see through this. I know the people back in
Tennessee will.
And with that statement, sir, I have a few questions for
the witness.
With your loss of your law license--I think you mentioned
in your opening statement that you had been disbarred--what is
your source of income in the future?
Mr. Cohen. I don't expect I'm going to have a source of
income when I'm in Federal penitentiary.
Mr. Green. Is there a book deal coming or anything like
that?
Mr. Cohen. I have no book deal right now in the process. I
have been contacted by many, including for television, a movie.
If you want to tell me who you would like to play you I'm more
than happy to write the name down.
Mr. Green. I'm sure there is a very attractive man.
Mr. Cohen. I would also like to turn around and just to
correct your statement on me. No individual----
Mr. Green. Let me ask one other question, though. I only
have a limited amount of time.
Mr. Cohen. No individual----
Mr. Green. One quick question. Who paid your expenses to be
here today?
Mr. Cohen. Who has paid my expenses?
Mr. Green. To be here today.
Mr. Cohen. I paid my expenses.
Mr. Green. Mr. Chairman, I would like to yield the
remaining of my time to the ranking member.
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Cohen, how many times did you talk to the
special counsel's office?
Mr. Cohen. Seven.
Mr. Jordan. Did they talk to you at all in preparation for
today's hearing between the seven times you talked to them
prior to your sentencing? Have you had any conversations with
the special counsel's office between sentencing and today?
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry, sir. I don't understand your
question.
Mr. Jordan. You talked to them seven times, that's in the
sentencing memorandums that were in front of the court back in
December. What I'm asking is how many times you have talked to
the special counsel's office since then up to today's
appearance here in Congress?
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired. You
may answer the question, though, that one question.
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry. I don't have the answer to that.
Chairman Cummings. Ms. Maloney.
Mr. Jordan. That wasn't--well, I will come back to that.
Ms. Maloney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And, Mr. Cohen, in your 10 years of working for Donald
Trump did he control everything that went on in the Trump
Organization? And did you have to get his permission in advance
and report back after every meeting of any importance.
Mr. Cohen. Yes. There was nothing that happened at The
Trump Organization, from whether it was a response, as the
Daily Beast story that you referred to, Ranking Member, that
did not go through Mr. Trump with his approval and sign-off, as
in the case of the payments.
Ms. Maloney. How many times did the President, Michael, ask
you or direct you to try to reach settlements with women in
2015 and 2016?
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry, ma'am, I don't have the answer to
that. I'd have to go back and try to recollect. It's certainly
the two that we know about.
Ms. Maloney. And why do you think the President did not
provide the accurate information in his 2017 financial
disclosure form? What was he trying to hide? He corrected other
forms, but he didn't correct this one.
Mr. Cohen. The payments on the reimbursement of the funds
that I extended on his behalf.
Ms. Maloney. All right. Can you elaborate more?
Mr. Cohen. Well, going back into the story as I stated,
when we, Allen Weisselberg and I, left the office and we went
to his office in order to make the determination on how the
money was going to be wired to the IOLA, the interest on the
lawyer's account for Keith Davidson in California, I had asked
Allen to use his money, didn't want to use mine, and he said he
couldn't, and we then decided how else we can do it.
And he asked me whether or not I know anybody who wants to
have a party at one of his clubs that could pay me instead or
somebody who may have wanted to become a member of one of the
golf clubs, and I also don't have anybody that was interested
in that.
And it got to the point where it was down to the wire, it
was either somebody wire the funds and purchase the life rights
to the story from Ms. Clifford or it was going to end up being
sold to television, and that would have embarrassed the
President and it would have interfered with the election.
Ms. Maloney. But the President has never amended his 2017
form to this day, and while you are facing the consequences of
going to jail, he is not.
Mr. Cohen. Well, I believe that they amended a financial
disclosure form and there is a footnote somewhere buried. I
don't recall specifically what it says, but there is a footnote
buried somewhere.
Ms. Maloney. Can you describe, Michael, to the American
people, catch and kill?
Mr. Cohen. So catch and kill is a method that exists when
you are working with a news outlet -- in this specific case it
was AMI, National Enquirer, David Pecker, Dylan Howard, and
others -- where they would contact me or Mr. Trump or someone
and state that there's a story that's percolating out there
that you may be interested in. And then what you do is you
contact that individual and you purchase the rights to that
story from them.
Ms. Maloney. And you practiced this for the President?
Mr. Cohen. I was involved in several of these catch and
kill episodes. But these catch and kill scenarios existed
between David Pecker and Mr. Trump long before I started
working for him in 2007.
Ms. Maloney. Michael, can you suggest who else this
committee should talk to for additional information on this or
anything else?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, I believe David Pecker, Dylan Howard, Barry
Levine of AMI, as well, Allen Weisselberg, Alan Garten of Trump
Organization, as well.
Ms. Maloney. Well, thank you very much for your testimony.
And, Mr. Chairman, this is a story of redemption.
Mr. Cohen. Thank you, ma'am.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Comer.
Mr. Comer. Mr. Cohen, in your testimony you stated that you
began work for The Trump Organization as a lawyer dealing with
real estate transactions. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Mr. Comer. Prior to coming to Congress, I served as the
director of two different banks, so I have seen hundreds of
loan applications. And to try to determine your credibility
here today I just wanted to ask you a couple of real estate
transaction questions just to see how, in fact, you operate.
According to the Southern District of New York prosecutors,
you lied to banks to secure loans by falsely stating the amount
of debt you were carrying. Mr. Cohen, my question to you, was
it Donald Trump's fault that you knowingly committed a crime of
deception to defraud a bank?
Mr. Cohen. No, it's not.
Mr. Comer. Was that fraudulent loan you obtained for The
Trump Organization or for you personally?
Mr. Cohen. It would be for me, though I'm not familiar with
which loan that you are referring to.
I would like to say one thing. Sir, I would like just to
respond. The loan that you are talking about when we are
talking about the home equity line of credit, which is what I
believe you are referring to, no -- no individual----
Mr. Comer. We are also referring to -- I'm going to ask a
question pertaining to your summer home that you purchased.
Mr. Cohen. I never purchased a summer home. No individual
or no bank in the 22 years that I have had loans have ever lost
a dollar with me. I owe no money to any bank.
Mr. Comer. Well, the banks usually find out if someone is
trying to deceive them.
Did your so-called blind loyalty----
Mr. Cohen. In 22 years I have no money that's ever been
owed to any individual or any bank.
Mr. Comer. Mr. Cohen, did your so-called blind loyalty to
the President cause you to defraud the bank for your own
personal gain?
Mr. Cohen. Sir, I take exception to that because there's
never been a fraud on a -- I never defrauded any bank.
Mr. Comer. Well, let's dig a little deeper on that, on the
bank fraud. According to the Southern District of New York, you
failed to disclose more than $20 million in liabilities, as
well as tens of thousands of dollars of monthly expenses.
That's according to the Southern District of New York.
Now, Mr. Cohen, you being lawyer, surely you knew you were
breaking the law. Now, why would you have done that?
Mr. Cohen. Sir, I'm not a CPA. And I pled guilty. I am
going to prison as a result of it.
Mr. Comer. Because you're a con?
Mr. Cohen. No, sir, because I pled guilty, and I am going
to be doing the time. I have caused tremendous, tremendous pain
to my family, and I take no happiness----
Mr. Comer. Let's go back to the -- one last question about
the bank. When the bank found out about the liabilities that
you failed to disclose you lied again to the bank -- this
according to the Southern District of New York -- and said it
had been expunged when, in fact, you just shifted the debt to
another bank.
So apparently, according to the information that we
received, your intent to defraud the bank was for the desire to
purchase the summer home for $8.5 million?
Mr. Cohen. No, sir.
Mr. Comer. That's not correct?
Mr. Cohen. That would have been off of an equity line
considering I had less than a 50 percent loan to value on the
assets. And there was a preexisting line of credit that existed
years before the date that you are referring to where--this is
all surrounding New York City taxi medallions.
Mr. Comer. But you understand that when you fail to
disclose liabilities, especially $20 million in liabilities,
that is, in fact, fraud?
Mr. Cohen. Except even with the $20 million in liability--
--
Mr. Comer. How much was it?
Mr. Cohen. The medallions were at that time worth over $45
million.
Mr. Comer. Mr. Cohen, you called Donald Trump a cheat in
your opening testimony. What would you call yourself?
Mr. Cohen. A fool.
Mr. Comer. You calling -- OK. Well, no comment on that.
Mr. Cohen. I appreciate that.
Mr. Comer. Mr. Chairman, we said we were in search of the
truth. I don't believe that Michael Cohen is capable of telling
the truth.
And I would hope that as this committee moves forward that
when we have the opportunity to subpoena witnesses we subpoena
witnesses that are not recently disbarred, are not convicted
felons, and witnesses that haven't committed bank fraud and tax
fraud. That is how we're going to determine the truth.
So, Mr. Chairman, I'll yield the balance of my time to the
ranking member.
Mr. Jordan. I thank the gentleman for yielding.
I would just make one point. We just had a five-minute
debate where Mr. Cohen disputes what the Southern District of
New York found, what the judge found, that he was actually
guilty of committing bank fraud.
If this statement back here doesn't say it all: Cohen's
consciousness of wrongdoing is fleeting. His remorse is
minimal. His instinct to blame others is strong.
There's only one thing wrong with that statement: His
remorse is nonexistent. He just debated a Member of Congress
saying: I really didn't do anything wrong with the false bank
things that I'm guilty of and going to prison for.
Mr. Cohen. Mr. Jordan, that's not what I said, and you know
that that's not what I said.
Mr. Meadows. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. Cohen. I said I pled guilty and I take responsibility
for my actions.
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired. You
may answer the question.
Mr. Cohen. Shame on you, Mr. Jordan. That's not what I
said. Shame on you.
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Cohen. That's not what I said. What I said is I took
responsibility and I take responsibility. What I was doing is
explaining to the gentleman that his facts are inaccurate.
I still -- I take responsibility for my mistakes, all
right? I am remorseful, and I am going to prison. I will be
away from my wife and family for years. So before you turn
around and you cast more aspersions----
Mr. Jordan. We all feel for that. I understand that.
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. please understand there are people
watching you today that know me a whole lot better.
I made mistakes. I own them. And I didn't fight with the
Southern District of New York. I didn't put the system through
an entire scenario. But what I did do is I pled guilty, and I
am going to be, again, going to prison.
Chairman Cummings. Ms. Norton.
Ms. Norton. Mr. Cohen, at the center of the reasons you are
going to prison is convictions for campaign finance violations,
and they center around some salacious revelations.
The Washington Post reported or aired an Access Hollywood
video. It set a record for the number of people who watched,
crashed the newspaper's server.
But this happened in early October on the cusp of the
election. What was Mr. Trump's reaction to the video becoming
public at that time and was he concerned about the impact of
that video on the election?
Mr. Cohen. The answer is yes. As I stated before, I was in
London at the time visiting my daughter, who is studying there
for a Washington semester abroad, and I received a phone call
during the dinner from Hope Hicks stating that she had just
spoken to Mr. Trump and we need you to start making phone calls
to the various different news outlets that you have
relationships with, and we need to spin this. What we want to
do is just to claim that this was men locker room talk.
Ms. Norton. Was the concern about the election in
particular?
Mr. Cohen. The answer is yes.
Then, couple that with Karen McDougal, which then came out
around the same time. And then on top of that the Stormy
Daniels matter.
Ms. Norton. Yeah, and these things happened in the month
before the election and almost one after the other. The Stormy
Daniels revelation where prosecutors and officials--the
prosecutors learned of that--of that matter and prosecutors
stated that the officials at the magazine contacted you about
the story. And the magazine, of course, is the National
Enquirer. Is that correct, that they did come to you?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Norton. Were you concerned about this news story
becoming public right after the Access Hollywood study in terms
of impact on the election?
Mr. Cohen. I was concerned about it, but more importantly,
Mr. Trump was concerned about it.
Ms. Norton. That was my next question. What was the
President's concern about these matters becoming public in
October as we were about to go into an election?
Mr. Cohen. I don't think anybody would dispute this belief
that after the wildfire that encompassed the Billy Bush tape,
that a second followup to it would have been pleasant. And he
was concerned with the effect that it had had on the campaign,
on how women were seeing him, and ultimately whether or not he
would have a shot in the general election.
Ms. Norton. And so you negotiated the $130,000 payment.
Mr. Cohen. The $130,000 number was not a number that was
actually negotiated. It was told to me by Keith Davidson that
this is a number that Ms. Clifford wanted.
Ms. Norton. Well, you finally completed that deal, as it
were, on October the 25th.
Mr. Cohen. Twenty-eighth.
Ms. Norton. Days before the election. What happened in the
interim?
Mr. Cohen. Contemplated whether or not to do it. Wasn't
sure if she was really going to go public. It was again some
communications back and forth between myself and Keith
Davidson.
And ultimately it came to either do it or don't, at which
time, again, I had gone into Mr. Trump's office, as I did after
each and every conversation, and he had told me that he had
spoken to a couple of friends, and it is 130,000, it is not a
lot of money, and we should just do it, so go ahead and do it.
And I was at the time with Allen Weisselberg, where he directed
us to go back to Mr. Weisselberg's office and figure this all
out.
Ms. Norton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Meadows.
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Cohen, do you know Lynne Patton? I'm right
here.
Mr. Cohen. Oh, yes, sir.
Mr. Meadows. Do you know Lynne Patton?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, I do.
Mr. Meadows. I asked Lynne to come today in her personal
capacity to actually shed some light.
How long have you known Ms. Patton?
Mr. Cohen. I'm responsible for Lynne Patton joining The
Trump Organization and the job that she currently holds.
Mr. Meadows. Well, that's -- I'm glad you acknowledged
that, because you made some very demeaning comments about the
President that Ms. Patton doesn't agree with. In fact, it has
to do with your claim of racism. She says that as a daughter of
a man born in Birmingham, Alabama, that there is no way that
she would work for an individual who was racist.
How do you reconcile the two of those?
Mr. Cohen. As neither should I, as the son of a Holocaust
survivor.
Mr. Meadows. But, Mr. Cohen, I guess what I'm saying is, is
I have talked to the President over 300 times. I have not heard
one time a racist comment out of his mouth in private.
So how do you reconcile it? Do you have proof of those
conversations?
Mr. Cohen. I would ask you to----
Mr. Meadows. Do you have tape recordings of those
conversations?
Mr. Cohen. No, sir.
Mr. Meadows. Well, you have taped everybody else, why
wouldn't you have a tape of----
Mr. Cohen. That's also not true, sir. That's not true.
Mr. Meadows. You haven't taped anybody?
Mr. Cohen. I have taped individuals.
Mr. Meadows. How many times have you taped individuals?
Mr. Cohen. Maybe 100 times over 10 years.
Mr. Meadows. Is that a low estimate? Because I have heard
it is over 200 times.
Mr. Cohen. No, I don't think. I think it is approximately
about 100, from what I recall. But I was asked--you asked me a
question, sir, so here's----
Mr. Meadows. Do you have proof? Do you have proof, yes or
no?
Mr. Cohen. I do. I do.
Mr. Meadows. Where is the proof?
Mr. Cohen. Ask Ms. Patton how many people who are Black are
executives at The Trump Organization, and the answer is zero.
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Cohen, we can go through this.
I would ask unanimous consent that her entire statement be
put in the record.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection.
[The information referred to follows:]
Statement from Lynne Patton
As someone who considered Michael Cohen one of my very best friends
for the past 10-plus years, virtually inseparable during our tenure at
the Trump Organization (and even before) having personally introduced
me to the Trump family, leading to my subsequent employment therein,
and arguably, my current job, the only word that comes to mind this
week is sad.
I am sad that Michael has elected to leverage his own personal
illegal activities into nothing more than political theater this week
with the sole partisan purpose to embarrass a sitting President with
unfounded personal or professional gossip .
I am sad that Michael would turn his back on a man to whom he has
repeatedly said he owes everything in the hope of a reduced prison
sentence.
Lastly, I'm sad for myself.
Sad that I have wasted so much time and energy caring, supporting
and loving a man I now realize I truly never knew.
If Michael Cohen had anything of substance to offer against the
President of the United States, Mueller would not have rejected his
plea for leniency and Cohen would not be going to jail. Period.
Above all, I am sad that Michael would, once again, on a world
stage, levy unsubstantiated claims, particularly against a man who has
single-handedly raised five of the most unbiased and open-minded
children I've ever known. Four of whom I count among my very best
friends, to date.
I stated this in my viral video back in 2015 and I'll say it again:
as the daughter of a man born in Birmingham, Alabama, there is no
amount of money in the world that would make me work for a man who I
thought harbored bigoted or racist ideologies. People who have known
this man far less than I have have been offered over seven figures to
write best-selling works of fiction, yet the thought has never crossed
my mind. So I truly mean it when I say there is no amount of money in
the world to make me either work for (nor sell out) this family. Zero.
The bottom line is that, much like Omarosa Manigault Newman, it
does not take someone 15 years to figure out someone is a racist.
Unless of course, they're not one.
Mr. Meadows. All right. Let me go on a little bit further.
Did you collect $1.2 million or so from Novartis?
Mr. Cohen. I did.
Mr. Meadows. For access to the Trump administration?
Mr. Cohen. No, sir.
Mr. Meadows. Why did you collect it?
Mr. Cohen. Because they came to me based upon my knowledge
of the enigma Donald Trump, what he thinks----
Mr. Meadows. So they paid----
Mr. Cohen. Sir, please let me finish.
Mr. Meadows. No. Did they pay you $1.2 million----
Mr. Cohen. We've already said that.
Mr. Meadows [continuing]. to give them advice?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, they did. A multibillion-dollar
conglomerate came to me looking for information, not something
that's unusual here in D.C., looking for information, and they
believed that I had a value.
Mr. Meadows. So how many times did you meet with them?
Mr. Cohen. And that the value was the insight that I was
capable of offering them----
Mr. Meadows. How many times----
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. and they were willing to pay.
Mr. Meadows. How many times did you meet with them? For
$1.2 million, how many times did you meet with them?
Mr. Cohen. I provided them with both in-person as well as
telephone access whenever they needed.
Mr. Meadows. How many times -- that's a question, Mr.
Cohen.
Mr. Cohen. I don't recall sir.
Mr. Meadows. So did you ever talk to them?
Mr. Cohen. I spoke to them on several occasions, yes
Mr. Meadows. How many?
Mr. Cohen. Six times.
Mr. Meadows. Six times. Wow, $200,000 a call?
Mr. Cohen. Sir, I also would like to bring to your
attention----
Mr. Meadows. Hold on. This is my five minutes, Mr. Cohen,
not yours.
Did you get money from the Bank of Kazakhstan.
Mr. Cohen. It's not a Bank of Kazakhstan, it's called BTA.
Mr. Meadows. BTA Bank. Kazakhstan, BTA bank, did you get
money from them?
Mr. Cohen. I did.
Mr. Meadows. For what purpose?
Mr. Cohen. The purpose was because the former CEO of that
bank had absconded with over--between $4 to $6 billion. And
some of that money was here in the United States, and they
sought my assistance in terms of finding, locating that money,
and helping them to recollect it.
Mr. Meadows. So are you saying that all the reports that
you were paid in some estimates over $4 million to have access
and understanding of the Trump administration, you are saying
that all of that was just paid to you just because you're a
nice guy?
Mr. Cohen. I am a nice guy, but more importantly----
Mr. Meadows. Well, I would beg to differ. The record
reflects that you are not a nice guy.
Mr. Cohen. Sir, each and every contract contained the
clause, in my contracts, that said I will not lobby, and I do
not do government relations work. In fact, in fact, Novartis
sent me their contract, which stated specifically that they
wanted me to lobby, that they wanted me to provide access to
government, including the President.
That information, that paragraph was crossed out by me,
initialed, and written in my own handwriting that says I will
not lobby or do government relations work.
Mr. Meadows. So Novartis representatives say that it was
like they were hiring a nonregistered lobbyist. So you disagree
with that?
Mr. Cohen. I don't know what they said, sir, but the
contract speaks for itself.
Mr. Meadows. Have you contacted anybody in the
administration?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Meadows. To advocate on behalf of any aspect of any of
your contracts?
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Meadows. I ask unanimous consent, Mr. Chairman, I ask
unanimous consent----
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired. You
may answer the question.
Mr. Cohen. I don't know what you are referring to, sir.
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman----
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Clay.
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman----
Mr. Clay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Cohen, I'm pleased you agreed to testify today
voluntarily.
In my view, we are all here for just one reason, and that's
the American people are tired of being lied to. They have been
lied to by President Trump. They have been lied to by the
President's children. They have been lied to by the President's
legal representatives. And it pains me to say that they have
been even lied to by his congressional enablers who are still
devoted to perpetuating and protecting this giant con game on
the American people.
Now, Mr. Cohen, I would like to talk to you about the
President's assets, since by law these must be reported
accurately on his Federal financial disclosure and when he
submits them for a bank loan.
Mr. Cohen, you served for nearly a decade as then
businessman Trump's personal attorney and so-called fixer. Did
you also have an understanding of the President's assets and
how he valued those items?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Clay. In November 2017 Crain's New York Business
reported that The Trump Organization provided, quote,
flagrantly untrue revenue figures going back to at least 2010
to influence Crane's ranking of the largest private companies
in New York. According to the reports, while The Trump
Organization reported nearly $9.5 billion in revenues in 2016,
public filings suggested revenues were actually less than one-
tenth of that.
To your knowledge, did the President or his company ever
inflate assets or revenues?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Clay. And was that done with the President's knowledge
or direction?
Mr. Cohen. Everything was done with the knowledge and at
the direction of Mr. Trump.
Mr. Clay. Tell us why he would do that and what purpose did
it serve.
Mr. Cohen. It depends upon the situation. There were times
that I was asked, again with Allen Weisselberg, the CFO, to go
back and to speak with an individual from Forbes, because Mr.
Trump wanted each year to have his net worth rise on the Forbes
wealthiest individuals list.
And so, what you do is you look at the assets and you try
to finds an asset that has, say, for example, 40 Wall Street,
which is about 1.2 million square feet, find an asset that is
comparable, find the highest price per square foot that's
achieved in the area, and apply it to that building.
Or, if you are going off of your rent roll, you go by the
gross rent roll times a multiple and you make up the multiple,
which is something that he had talked about, and it is based
upon what he wanted to value the asset at.
Mr. Clay. You know, you have provided this committee with
copies of the President's financial statements or parts of them
from 2011, 2012, and '13.
And, Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit those for the
record. Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit the statements to
the record.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.[Cohen
exhibits are available at: https://oversight.house.gov/sites/
democrats.oversight.house.gov/files/
Michael%20Cohen.02.27.2019.Exhibits.pdf.]
Mr. Clay. Thank you.
Can you explain why you had these financial statements and
what you used them for?
Mr. Cohen. So these financial statements were used by me
for two purposes. One was discussing with media, whether it was
Forbes or other magazines, to demonstrate Mr. Trump's
significant net worth. That was one function.
Another was when we were dealing later on with insurance
companies we would provide them with these copies so that they
would understand that the premium, which is based sometimes on
the individual's capabilities to pay, would be reduced.
Mr. Clay. And all of this was done at the President's
direction and with his knowledge?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, because whatever the numbers would come
back to be we would immediately report it back.
Mr. Clay. And did this information provided to us inflate
the President's assets?
Mr. Cohen. I believe these numbers are inflated.
Mr. Clay. And, of course, inviting--inflating assets to win
a newspaper poll to boost your ego is not a crime. But to your
knowledge, did the President ever provide inflated assets to a
bank in order to help him obtain a loan?
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired, but
you may answer that question.
Mr. Cohen. These documents and others were provided to
Deutsche Bank on one occasion where I was with them in our
attempt to obtain money so that we can put a bid on the Buffalo
Bills.
Mr. Clay. Thank you for your answers.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Hice of Georgia.
Mr. Hice. I would like to yield a second to the gentleman
from North Carolina.
Mr. Meadows. I thank the gentleman for yielding.
I want to ask unanimous consent to put into the record an
article from Stat, which indicates that Mr. Cohen's promise to
access not just Trump, but also the circle around him, it was
almost as if we were hiring a lobbyist, close quote. I ask
unanimous consent.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection.
[The Stat article is available at: https://
www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2018/05/08/novartis-paid-400000-
trump-attorney/]
Mr. Meadows. I ask unanimous consent that we put into the
record a criminal referral for violating Section 22 U.S.C. of
the statute number 611. I ask unanimous consent that my letter
referring Mr. Cohen for violating FARA for illegal lobbying
activity be entered into the record.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.
MEMORANDUM
From: Mark Meadows, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on
Government Operations, House Oversight and
Reform Committee
To: The Honorable William P. Barr, Attorney General to
the United States
RE: Referral of Michael Cohen for Potential
Violation of 22 U.S.C. 611 et seq.
_______________________________________________________________________
As you know, Michael Cohen acted as the personal attorney for
President Donald J. Trump from 2007 to April 2018. Shortly before the
2016 election, Mr. Cohen created a limited liability company Essential
Consultants, LLC, naming himself CEO.
Evidence reviewed by our Committee strongly suggests Mr. Cohen made
specific solicitations to foreign companies with business interests
pending before the Trump administration, promising access to the
Administration. Documents and information reviewed by our Committee
also raises concerns Mr. Cohen's foreign clients expected official
favors in return for enlisting him and Essential Consultants' services.
Specifically, Cohen solicited Novartis, a pharmaceutical company
from Switzerland, with policy objectives pending before the Federal
Drug Administration, among other agencies. Novartis reportedly paid Mr.
Cohen $1.2 million for promised access to the White House on health
care policy. \1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ MJ Lee et al., Inside Michael Cohen's Aggressive Pitch
Promising Access to Trump, CNN (May 10, 2018), https://www.cnn.com/
2018/05/09/politics/michael-cohen-trump-lobbying/index.html.
Kazakhstan's BTA Bank paid Mr. Cohen an undisclosed sum under a
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
consulting agreement with Essential Consultants, LLC. \2\
\2\ See, e.g., Christopher Brennan, Trump Associate Received More
than $21M in Kazakh Oligarchs' Alleged Money laundering Scheme, NY
DAILY NEWS (Apr. 25, 2018), https://www.nydailynews,com/news/national/
trump-associate-received-21m-alleged-oligarth-scheme-article-1.3953189;
Adam Davidson, Trump's Business of Corruption, NEW YORKER (Aug. 21,
2017), https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/08/21/trumps-business-
of-corruption.
Similarly, Korean Aerospace Industries, a South Korean defense
company, hired Mr. Cohen as it negotiated an Air Force contract valued
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
at $16 billion. \3\
\3\ Amanda Macias, South Korean Defense Company That Paid Trump
Lawyer Cohen $150,000 is poised to Win Part of a $16 Billion Pentagon
Deal,CNBC (May 9,2018), https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/09/south-korean-
firm-that-paid-trump-lawyer-cohen-poised-to-win-pentagon-deal.html.
As you know, the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938 (FARA)
prohibits individuals from acting as an agent of a foreign principal
without first registering with the Department of Justice. The financial
support Mr. Cohen enjoyed from his aforementioned business dealings
with Swiss, Kazakh, and South Korean companies in exchange for his
engagement in political activities before the Trump Administration
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
raise concerns he is in violation of FARA.
Mr. Cohen's touting access to President Trump and the
Administration with offers to influence matters that affect the
business of companies like Novartis, BTA Bank, and Korean Aerospace
Industries crosses into lobbying. Ultimately, Mr. Cohen appears to have
been acting as an agent of several foreign principals and represented
their interests before federal officials. Mr. Cohen actively solicited
clients based on his proximity to the President and other members of
the Administration, he received lucrative contracts from foreign
clients with business pending before the Administration, and he
provided significant, yet unspecified and vague services for these
clients in exchange for his services.
Accordingly, I am referring Michael Cohen to the Department of
Justice for investigation of potential violation(s) of 22 U.S.C. 611
et seq.
Mr. Meadows. I ask unanimous consent that the first order
of business for this committee is for us to look in a
bipartisan way at criminal referrals at the next business
meeting.
Chairman Cummings. These are not documents, they're
objections. They're objections.
Mr. Meadows. So we're objecting to a unanimous consent
request? Is that what, Mr. Chairman?
I will yield back.
Chairman Cummings. All right. Now, let me be clear. Mr.
Hice, I'm going to give you your whole five minutes, all right?
Mr. Hice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. In fairness to you.
Mr. Hice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Meadows, the chairman made me--the
ranking member made me aware that I had given a little more
time to Ms. Wasserman Schultz. I was going to let you do that
anyway. But I just want the committee to know that because
there's so many members I'm going to be strict on this five
minutes, all right? All right.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Hice, you have five minutes.
Mr. Hice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Cohen, you claim that you've lied but you're not a
liar. Just to set the record straight, if you lied you are a
liar by definition.
You also said a moment ago that the facts are inaccurate.
If they are facts they are accurate, and that would make you
inaccurate.
But I would like take a moment to--I would like know who
you consulted with to prepare for today's hearing, Lanny Davis
and who else?
Mr. Cohen. I consulted with my counsel Lanny Davis, as well
as Michael Monaco.
Mr. Hice. All right. Did you or Michael or Lanny Davis or
anyone else cooperate with the Democrat majority to prepare for
this hearing?
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry, say that again, please.
Mr. Hice. Did you or anyone else on your team cooperate
with the Democrat Party in preparing for this hearing?
Mr. Cohen. We've spoken to the party.
Mr. Hice. OK. Did you prepare with Chairman Cummings or
anyone on your team?
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry, what do you mean by prepare?
Mr. Hice. Prepare for this hearing.
Mr. Cohen. Prepare? I prepared with my counsel.
Mr. Hice. Did you prepare with the Democrat majority or
Chairman Cummings?
Mr. Cohen. We spoke with Chairman Cummings and the party.
Mr. Hice. With Chairman Schiff?
Mr. Cohen. I spoke with Chairman Schiff and his people, as
well.
Mr. Hice. Were there any other individuals acting as a
liaise for you with the majority party?
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry, sir, what are you saying?
Mr. Hice. Did you have a liaison other than that you have
mentioned who were working with the majority to prepare for
this hearing?
Mr. Cohen. We spoke with the various individuals that you
just raised, yes.
Mr. Hice. Tom Steyer, regarding him or any of his
representatives, anyone associated with him, is he or any of
them paying Lanny Davis to represent you?
Mr. Cohen. Not that I'm aware of.
Mr. Hice. Who is paying Lanny Davis?
Mr. Cohen. At the present moment no one.
Mr. Hice. So he is doing all this work for nothing?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, sir.
Mr. Hice. OK.
Mr. Cohen. I hope so.
Mr. Hice. I kind of doubt it.
How did Lanny Davis come to represent you? Did he approach
you or did you approach him?
Mr. Cohen. I reached out to Lanny Davis at the
recommendation of my former counsel over at McDermott Will &
Emery, who knew Mr. Davis, and Mr. Davis----
Mr. Hice. So you reached out to Mr. Davis?
Mr. Cohen. I did, yes, initially.
Mr. Hice. OK. So did you want to testify before Congress or
did he urge you to testify here?
Mr. Cohen. I was asked to come here. I am here, sir,
voluntarily because it's my decision.
Mr. Hice. You were asked by who? My question is, did he ask
you to come here?
Mr. Cohen. No, sir.
Mr. Hice. OK. Because he says that he did ask you to come
here and that he convinced you and also that he did the same
with Chairman Cummings, as well.
So your testimony here is that you approached Lanny Davis
to represent you and to come here, he did not persuade you to
come here.
Mr. Cohen. He did not persuade me. Actually, Chairman
Cummings, which is part of the conversations that we engaged in
with his people, as well as Chairman Schiff and others, we
spoke in order to ask me to come here voluntarily.
Mr. Hice. I find the connecting of the dots here with Mr.
Davis and you and, frankly, the chairman, and perhaps others to
be rather stunning, that there is an agenda for all this
happening here today. And I believe, frankly, that that's to
bring the President down, to impugn the President.
You made an oath last time you were here, and that oath
meant nothing to you then. We had an oath here in this very
room about a month ago and it was, quote, ``Be clear that I
will seek the truth, nothing but the truth, so help me God,''
end quote.
That sounds like an oath to me. The chairman made that
statement in this very room last month, but here we are today,
our first big hearing, with, as you and we all know, a
convicted liar, lying to Congress, a criminal.
And I believe this witness is totally incompatible with the
stated goal of having to seek the truth in this hearing. This
is the first time in the history of Congress we have someone
testifying here who has already been convicted of lying to
Congress. So congratulations for being the first in Congress to
do that, and Mr. Cummings, as well.
Mr. Cohen. Thank you.
Mr. Hice. I can't believe we have brought this committee to
its knees in terms of losing its credibility, and it is a
shameful mockery of what our purpose is.
I yield back.
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Lynch.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Let me just pick up on those last comments. Want to talk
about a low point? How about Mr. Papadopoulos pled guilty? Mr.
Manafort convicted, pled guilty to two other charges? Mr. Gates
pled guilty? Mr. Flynn pled guilty? Mr. Pinedo pled guilty? Mr.
van der Zwann pled guilty? Mr. Kilimnik indicted for
obstruction of justice?
And for two years, you want to talk about an agenda, my
friends on the other side of the aisle refused to bring of any
of these people up before the committee. So today, for the
first day, we have one witness who voluntarily is coming
forward to testify. Your side ran away from the truth and we
are trying to bring it to the American people.
So, Mr. Cohen, first of all, thank you for voluntarily
coming before the committee to testify. I want to ask you about
your statements regarding Trump Tower and Moscow, and I want to
drill down some of the facts and details.
Now, you may not be aware of it, but this goes back a way.
Back in 1987 Mr. Trump wrote that he had had ongoing
discussions with Soviet officials back then to build a luxury--
a large luxury hotel across from the Kremlin in partnership
with the Soviet Union. So at that time it was the Soviet Union.
I want to ask you, in your filing with the Special Counsel
Mueller's office, the prosecutors wrote, and I quote, ``Mr.
Cohen discussed the status and progress of the Moscow project
with Individual 1 on more than the three occasions Mr. Cohen
claimed to the committee and he briefed family members of
Individual 1 with the company about the project.''
I know this is redundant, but, Mr. Cohen, who are we
referring to here when we refer to Individual 1.
Mr. Cohen. Donald J. Trump.
Mr. Lynch. OK. And the company?
Mr. Cohen. The Trump Organization through a subsidiary.
Mr. Lynch. OK. And who were the family members that you
briefed on the Trump Tower Moscow project?
Mr. Cohen. Don Trump, Jr., and Ivanka Trump.
Mr. Lynch. OK. Now, were these in the regular course of
business or did the President or family request the briefings?
Mr. Cohen. This is the regular course of business.
Mr. Lynch. Do you recall -- there's a question on the
number of briefings. Do you recall how many there might have
been?
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry, sir?
Mr. Lynch. Do you recall how many of these briefings there
might have been?
Mr. Cohen. Approximately 10.
Mr. Lynch. OK.
Mr. Cohen. In total.
Mr. Lynch. All right. In your written remarks you also
wrote, and I quote, ``There were at least a half dozen times
between the Iowa Caucus in January 2016 and the end of June
when Mr. Trump would ask me, 'How's it going in Russia,'
referring to the Russia Moscow Tower project.''
How did the President communicate those questions to you?
Was it verbally or over the phone?
Mr. Cohen. Verbally most of the time or virtually all of
the time. He would say to me, ``Michael, come walk with me.''
He was heading to let's say a rally or to a car, and as I would
walk him to the elevator he would ask me questions quickly
regarding a series of issues.
Mr. Lynch. Could there be any doubt what he was referring
to in terms of the project in Russia?
Mr. Cohen. No, this would be it.
Mr. Lynch. OK.
Mr. Cohen. Otherwise there would have been no reason to ask
it of me.
Mr. Lynch. Right, right.
You also wrote, and I quote, ``To be clear, Mr. Trump knew
of and directed the Trump Moscow negotiations throughout the
campaign and lied about it,'' close quote.
How did the President actually direct the negotiations?
Mr. Cohen. After each----
Mr. Lynch. What details did he direct?
Mr. Cohen. Well, after each communication that I had I
would report back to him, and our goal was to get this project.
We were interested in building what would have been the largest
building in all of Europe.
Sir, just if I can say one last thing in regard to----
Mr. Lynch. Please go ahead.
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. the gentleman's statement and since
this is on topic.
The lies that I told to Congress, in fairness, benefited
Mr. Trump. It was in furtherance of my protection of Mr. Trump,
which I stated in my testimony. And I am not protecting Mr.
Trump anymore.
And so, while I truly appreciate taking some of your time
onto it, to attack me every single time about taxes, I have no
credibility, it is for exactly that reason that I spent the
last week searching boxes in order to find the information that
I did so that you don't have to take my word for it. I don't
want you to. I want you to look at the documents, and I want
you to make your own decision.
Mr. Lynch. Mr. Cohen, I need my last----
Mr. Cohen. Sorry, sir.
Mr. Lynch. That's OK. Let me just say, I don't think my
colleagues on the other side of the aisle are afraid that
you're going to lie. I think they're afraid you're going to
tell truth.
Mr. Cohen. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Lynch. I yield back the balance of my time.
Chairman Cummings. Thank you very much.
Mr. Gosar.
Mr. Gosar. The gentleman from Ohio is recognized.
Mr. Jordan. I appreciate the gentleman for yielding.
I just want to respond to Mr. Lynch. I want you to think
about this. When have you ever seen a Federal agency where this
has happened? James Comey, Director, fired. Andy McCabe, Deputy
Director, fired, lied three times under oath, under
investigation right as we speak. Jim Baker, FBI Counsel,
demoted, then left, currently under investigation by the U.S.
Attorney's Office in Connecticut. Lisa Page, demoted, then
left. Peter Strzok, deputy head of counterintelligence,
demoted, then fired.That's what happened. That's what we're
concerned about. And today, we actually asked for Rod
Rosenstein, oh, by the way, we now know--three people have told
us, Rod Rosenstein actually was contemplating using the 25th
Amendment to remove the guy from Presidency who the American
people put there. And we asked for him to be a witness today
and the chairman said no. And instead, we get 30 minutes from a
guy who is going to prison, going to prison, in two months for
lying to Congress.
Mr. Cohen, I got two quick questions before I yield back to
my colleague. Mr. Hice asked you who all you talked to. You
said you've talked to--you spoke to Mr. Schiff. Obviously, you
spoke to Mr. Cummings. You've gone in front of both committees.
You're here today. You're going to be in front of Mr. Schiff's
committee tomorrow. Have you spoken to Chairman Nadler or
anyone on his staff, or have any of your attorneys spoken to
Chairman Nadler?
Mr. Cohen. I don't know about my attorneys. I have not
spoken to----
Mr. Jordan. You don't know if your attorney spoke----
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. Congressman--I have not spoken to
Congressman Nadler.
Mr. Jordan. Do you think your----
Mr. Cohen. And I'm not aware -- sir, I'm not aware if my
attorneys -- I can ask them.
Mr. Jordan. Can you turn around and ask?
Voice. No.
Mr. Cohen. The answer, sir, is no.
Mr. Jordan. OK. And you said, at this present time, Mr.
Davis is not getting paid. Does that--are you anticipating him
receiving some kind of compensation in the future?
Mr. Cohen. When I start to earn a living?
Mr. Jordan. Are you going to wait three years? Wow.
Mr. Cohen. The answer is yes.
Mr. Jordan. That's a first. I've never known a lawyer wait
3 years to get paid.
Mr. Cohen. I guess he thinks it's important.
Mr. Jordan. All right. With that, I yield to the gentleman
from Arizona.
Mr. Gosar. Well, thank you.
Mr. Cohen, you're a disgraced lawyer. I mean, you've been
disbarred. And so, I'm sure you remember -- well, maybe you
don't remember -- duty of loyalty, duty of confidentiality,
attorney/client privilege. I think the gentleman over your
right side actually understands that very, very well and
wouldn't do what you are doing here today.
So let's go back at this credibility. You want us to make
sure that we think of you as a real philanthropic icon, that
you're about justice, that you're the person that somebody
would call at 3 in the morning. No, they wouldn't. Not at all.
You saw Mr. Comer dissect you. Right in front of this
committee, you conflicted your testimony, sir. You're a
pathological liar. You don't know truth from falsehood.
Mr. Cohen. Sir, are you referring to me or the President?
Mr. Gosar. Hey, hey, this is my time.
Mr. Cohen. Are you referring to me, sir, or the President?
Mr. Gosar. When I ask you a question, I'll ask for an
answer.
Mr. Cohen. Sure.
Mr. Gosar. Now, are you familiar with Rule 35 of the
Federal Rules in Criminal Procedures?
Mr. Cohen. I am now.
Mr. Gosar. Oh. So the committee understands that you've
been in contact with the Southern District of New York. Is that
true?
Mr. Cohen. I am in constant contact with the Southern
District of New York regarding ongoing investigations.
Mr. Gosar. And part of that application is to reduce
sentencing time, is it not? Yes.
Mr. Cohen. There is a possibility----
Mr. Gosar. Yes. The answer is yes.
Mr. Cohen. No, it's not, sir.
Mr. Gosar. Yes, it is.
Mr. Cohen. OK.
Mr. Gosar. It is.
Mr. Cohen. It's not.
Mr. Gosar. And so testimony here could actually help you
out in getting your sentence lessened, isn't that true?
Mr. Cohen. I'm not really sure how my appearance here today
is providing substantial information that the Southern District
can use for the creation of a case. Now, if there is something
that this group can do for me, I would gladly welcome it.
Mr. Gosar. Well, I got to tell you, you know, America's
watching you. I've been getting texts right and left, saying,
How can anybody listen to this pathological person? He's got a
problem. He doesn't know fact from fiction. And that's what's
sad here, is that, you didn't do this for Donald Trump, to
protect Donald Trump. You did it for you. This is -- no, this
is all about you. This is all about this Twitter feed----
Mr. Cohen. Sure.
Mr. Gosar [continuing]. and -- no, let me read one of those
-- another one. Women who love and support Michael Cohen,
strong, pit bull, sex symbol, no nonsense, business-oriented
and ready to make a difference----
Mr. Cohen. 1,000 followers.
Mr. Gosar [continuing]. ready to make a difference against
the law. That's pretty sad. You know, over and over again, you
know, we wanted to have trust. It's built on the premise that
we're truthful, that we come forward. But there's no truth with
you whatsoever. That's why I -- that's important to you, to
look up here and look at the old adage that our moms taught us
-- liar, liar, pants on fire.
No one should ever listen to you and give you credibility.
It's sad. It's sad that we have come -- and in fact, I want to
quote the chairman's very words. This is a real -- hold on----
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time is expired.
Mr. Gosar [continuing]. sad state.
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time is expired. Who's
next? Mr. Cooper.
Mr. Cooper. Mr. Cohen, several times in your testimony, you
state the bad things that you did for Mr. Trump, and at some
point, you apparently changed your course of action. There's a
recurring refrain in your testimony that says, and yet, I
continued to work for him. But at some point, you changed. What
was the breaking point at which you decided to start telling
the truth?
Mr. Cohen. There's several factors. Helsinki,
Charlottesville, watching the daily destruction of our civility
to one another. Putting up silly things like this, really
unbecoming of Congress. It's that sort of behavior that I'm
responsible for. I'm responsible for your silliness, because I
did the same thing that you're doing now, for 10 years. I
protected Mr. Trump for 10 years, and the fact that you pull up
a news article that has no value to it, and you want to use
that as the premise for discrediting me, that I'm not the
person that people called at 3 in the morning, would make you
inaccurate. In actuality, it would make you a liar, which puts
you into the same position that I am in.
And I can only warn people, the more people that follow Mr.
Trump, as I did blindly, are going to suffer the same
consequences that I'm suffering.
Mr. Cooper. What warning would you give young people who
are tempted, as you were, would you encourage them not to wait
10 years to see the light? What advice would you give young
people, in particular, young lawyers, so they do not abuse
their bar license as you did?
Mr. Cohen. Look at what's happened to me. I had a wonderful
life. I have a beautiful wife. I have two amazing children. And
I achieved financial success by the age of 39. I didn't go to
work for Mr. Trump because I had to. I went to work for him
because I wanted to. And I've lost it all.
So if I'm not picture perfect--that's the picture that
should be up there. If I'm not a picture-perfect example of
what not to do, that's the example that I'm trying to set for
my children. We make mistakes in life, and I've owned them, and
I've taken responsibility for them. And I'm paying a huge
price, as is my family. So if that, in and of itself, isn't
enough to dissuade somebody from acting in the callous manner
that I did, I'm not sure that that person has any--any chance,
very much like I'm in right now.
Mr. Cooper. A recurring theme in your testimony is concern
for your family's safety. What specifically are you most
concerned about?
Mr. Cohen. Well, the President, unlike my ``Cohen for
Trump'' that has a thousand followers, he's got over 60 million
people. And when Mr. Trump turned around early in the campaign
and said, I can shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and get away
with it -- I want to be very clear -- he's not joking. He's
telling you the truth. You don't know him. I do. I sat next to
this man for 10 years, and I watched his back. I'm the one who
started the campaign. And I'm the one who continued in 2015 to
promote him.
So many things I thought that he can do that are just
great, and he can and he is doing things that are great. But
this destruction of our civility to one another is -- it's out
of control. And when he goes on Twitter, and he starts bringing
in my in-laws, my parents, my wife, what does he think is going
to happen? He's causing--he's sending out the same message that
he can do whatever he wants. This is his country. He's becoming
an autocrat. And hopefully, something bad will happen to me or
my children or my wife, so that I will not be here and testify.
That's what his hope was, it was to intimidate me. And, again,
I thanked everybody who joined and said that this is just not
right.
Mr. Cooper. Have you ever seen Mr. Trump personally
threaten people with physical harm?
Mr. Cohen. No. He would use others.
Mr. Cooper. He would hire other people to do that?
Mr. Cohen. I'm not so sure that he had to hire them. They
were already working there. Everybody's job at the Trump
Organization is to protect Mr. Trump. Every day, most of us
knew we were coming in and we were going to lie for him on
something. And that became the norm. And that's exactly what's
happening right now in this country. And it's exactly what's
happening here in government, sir.
Mr. Cooper. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My time is expired.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Armstrong?
Mr. Armstrong. Thank you. Mr. Cohen----
Mr. Cohen. Mr. Chairman, can we take a break?
Chairman Cummings. Not right now.
Mr. Cohen. OK.
Mr. Armstrong. All right.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Cohen, did you ask for a break?
Mr. Cohen. I did, sir.
That's OK. Thank you, sir.
Chairman Cummings. I thought a Member asked.
Mr. Cohen. Thank you.
Chairman Cummings. Ten minutes.
Exactly 10 minutes we'll start back.
[Recess.]
Chairman Cummings. Ms. Foxx?
Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Cohen, you've admitted to lying on your taxes.
According to Federal prosecutors in the Southern District of
New York, you also lied to banks to get loans. The prosecutors
wrote, quote, ``To secure loans, Cohen falsely understated the
amount of debt he was carrying and omitted information from his
personal financial statements to induce a bank to lend based on
incomplete information,'' end quote. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Ms. Foxx. You lied on financial documents. So you lied to
financial institutions in order to secure loans. So we've
established that you lie on your taxes, you lie to banks, and
you have been convicted of lying to Congress. It seems to me
that there's not much that you won't lie about when you stand
to gain from it.
In fact, the prosecutor for the Southern District of New
York noted that each of your crimes, quote, ``bear commonsense
characteristics with each involving deception and being
motivated by your personal greed and ambition.'' Is your
appearance here today motivated by your desire to remain in the
spotlight for your personal benefit?
Mr. Cohen. No, ma'am.
Ms. Foxx. You have sought out ways to rehabilitate your
image, from tax evader, bank swindler, and all-around liar, to
an honorable truthful man by appearing before cable news. I'm
concerned you could be using your story and this congressional
platform for your personal benefit, such is a desire to make
money from book deals. So can you commit, under oath, that you
have not and will not pursue a book or movie deal based on your
experiences working for the President?
Mr. Cohen. No.
Ms. Foxx. You cannot commit to making money off of a book
or movie deal based on your work?
Mr. Cohen. No. What I just--there's two parts to your
question. The first part of your question, you asked me whether
or not I had spoken to people regarding a possible book deal,
and I have. And I've spoken to people who've sought me out
regarding a movie deal.
Ms. Foxx. No, I didn't ask you if you'd spoken to anybody.
Mr. Cohen. That was the first part of your question.
Ms. Foxx. I said, can you commit under oath that you will
not--that you have not and will not pursue a book deal.
Mr. Cohen. And I would not do that, no.
Ms. Foxx. OK. Can you commit under oath that you will not
pursue opportunities to provide commentary for a major news
network based on your experiences working for the President?
Mr. Cohen. No.
Ms. Foxx. Can you commit under oath that you will not
pursue political office in the State of New York?
Mr. Cohen. No.
Ms. Foxx. So you don't commit to changing your ways,
basically, because you want to continue to use your background
as a liar, a cheater, a convicted liar, to make money? That's
what you want to do?
Mr. Cohen. And that's going to get me a book deal and a
movie deal and television--and a spot on television? I don't
think so.
Ms. Foxx. Well, it appears that it will. I yield my
remainder of my time, Mr. Chairman, to Mr. Jordan.
Mr. Jordan. I thank the gentlelady for yielding.
Mr. Cohen, in your sentencing statement to the court in
December of last year, you said, I want to apologize to the
people of the United States; you deserve to know the truth.
Approximately a month later, BuzzFeed News ran a story that was
the story in the country for a couple of days. BuzzFeed story
ran January 17, 2019. On January 18, your counsel went on TV
and wouldn't confirm or deny the story.
The next day, the special counsel's office did something
that's never happened. Never happened. They said the
description of specific statements to the special counsel's
office and the characterization of documents and testimony
obtained by this office regarding Michael Cohen's congressional
testimony are not accurate.
Why didn't your lawyer the day that he's on TV, when this
story is the biggest things in the news, in the country, why
didn't he deny the BuzzFeed story?
Mr. Cohen. Because I didn't think it was his responsibility
to do that. We are not the fact-checkers for BuzzFeed----
Mr. Jordan. He's on TV to talk about the very story you
committed to the court when you were trying to get your
sentence reduced that you--that the American people deserve to
know the truth, you had the golden opportunity to give them the
truth on a false story, the BuzzFeed story, and your lawyer
didn't say a thing. Actually, he said this: I can't confirm, I
can't deny. You had an opportunity to do exactly what you told
the judge you were going to do one month after you said it, and
you didn't do it. Why not?
Mr. Cohen. Again, it wasn't our responsibility to be the
fact-checker for the news agency----
Mr. Jordan. This is the biggest story in the country.
Mr. Cohen. Sir, please, let me--the President says, so far,
approximately 9,000--you asked----
Mr. Jordan. Let me just say one thing. I got eight seconds.
I got eight seconds. I'll let you finish.
Mr. Cohen. Chairman, may I please finish?
Mr. Jordan. The special counsel said----
Mr. Cohen. Chairman, can I please finish?
Mr. Jordan [continuing]. something they've never done----
Mr. Cohen. Sir?
Mr. Jordan [continuing]. they said that story was false.
Now you can respond.
Mr. Cohen. OK. My response----
Chairman Cummings. You may respond.
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. the President has told something
over 9,000 lies to date. Do I ask Mr. Davis or Mr. Monaco, do I
go on television in order to correct his mistakes?
Mr. Jordan. When----
Mr. Cohen. The answer is no.
Mr. Jordan [continuing]. talking about that specific
subject, you should.
Mr. Cohen. The answer is no. And I would like----
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has--listen up. The
gentleman's time has expired.
You may finish answering the question, and then we are
going to go to Mr. Connolly.
Mr. Cohen. All I wanted to say is, I just find it
interesting, sir, that between yourself and your colleagues,
that not one question so far since I'm here, has been asked
about President Trump. That's actually why I thought I was
coming today, not to confess the mistakes that I've made. I've
already done that. And I'll do it again every time you ask me
about taxes or mistakes. Yes, I made my mistakes, I'll say it
now again, and I'm going to pay the ultimate price.
But I'm not here today--and the American people don't care
about my taxes. They want to know what it is that I know about
Mr. Trump, and not one question so far has been asked about Mr.
Trump.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Connolly?
Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Well, Mr. Cohen, based on your testimony and your 10-year
experience, I think you can recognize the behavior you're being
subjected to on the other side of the aisle. Discredit,
slander, use any trick in the book to prevent your testimony
from sticking. The idea that a witness would come to us who's
flawed--and you certainly are flawed--means they can never tell
the truth, and there is no validity whatsoever to a single word
they say, would discredit every single criminal trial of
organized crime in the history of the United States, because
all of them depend on someone who's turned. It would make RICO
null and void. We couldn't use it anymore.
This Congress, historically, has relied on all kinds of
shady figures, who turned. One of the most famous who led to
the decapitation of organized crime families in America, Joe
Valachi, congressional hearing, he was a witness, and he
committed a lot worse crimes than you're convicted of, Mr.
Cohen.
So don't be fooled by what my friends on the other side of
the aisle are trying to do today. It is do everything but focus
on the principle known as ``Individual No. 1'' in the Southern
District of New York, as I recall. Is that correct, Mr. Cohen?
Mr. Cohen. That is correct.
Mr. Connolly. Now, Mr. Cohen, I want to ask you about
something that is not in your testimony and that so far has not
been made public. In our committee staff search of documents
provided by the White House that were otherwise redacted or
already in the public--and I guess the White House thought that
was funny--they made one mistake, the White House.
There was an email from a Special Assistant to the
President, to a deputy White House counsel, and the e-mail is
dated May 16th, 2017, and it says, and I quote, ``POTUS,''
meaning the President, ``requested a meeting on Thursday with
Michael Cohen and Jay Sekulow. Any idea what this might be
about?'' End quote.
Do you recall being asked to come to the White House on or
around that time? With Mr. Sekulow? May 2017?
Mr. Cohen. Off the top of my head, sir, I don't. I recall
being in the White House with Jay Sekulow, and it was in regard
to the--the documents--the document production, as well as my
appearance before the House Select Intel, but I'm not sure if
that specifically----
Mr. Connolly. Well, that----
Mr. Cohen. But what I will to do, is, I will check all my
records, and I'm more than happy to provide you with any
documentation or a response to this question.
Mr. Connolly. Well, you sort of touch on, presumably, the
purpose of the discussion, at least among others. This
occurred, this meeting occurred just before your testimony
before the Select Committee on Intelligence here in the House.
Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. I believe so, yes.
Mr. Connolly. Was that a topic of conversation with the
President himself?
Mr. Cohen. If this is the specific instance that I was
there with Mr. Sekulow, yes.
Mr. Connolly. So you had a conversation with the President
of the United States about your impending testimony before the
House Intelligence Committee. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Mr. Connolly. What was the nature of that conversation?
Mr. Cohen. He wanted me to cooperate. He also wanted just
to ensure I'm making the statement -- and I said it in my
testimony -- there is no Russia, there is no collusion, there
is no -- there is no deal. He goes, it's all a witch hunt, and
it's -- he goes, this stuff has to end.
Mr. Connolly. Did you take those comments to be suggestive
of what might flavor your testimony?
Mr. Cohen. Sir, he's been saying that to me for many, many
months. And at the end of the day, I knew exactly what he
wanted me to say.
Mr. Connolly. And why was Mr. Sekulow in the meeting?
Mr. Cohen. Because he was going to be representing Mr.
Trump going forward, as one of his personal attorneys in this
matter.
Mr. Connolly. So it was sort of a handoff meeting?
Mr. Cohen. Correct.
Mr. Connolly. In any way -- final question -- did the
President, in any way, from your point of view, coach you in
terms of how to respond to questions or the content of your
testimony before a House committee?
Mr. Cohen. Again, it's difficult to answer, because he
doesn't tell you what he wants. What he does is, again,
Michael, there's no Russia, there's no collusion, there's no
involvement, there's no interference. I know what he means,
because I've been around him for so long. So if you're asking
me whether or not that's the message, that's staying on point,
that's the party line that he created, that so many others are
now touting, yes, that's the message that he wanted to
reinforce.
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time is expired.
Mr. Connolly. Thank you.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Massie?
Mr. Massie. Mr. Cohen, can you just clarify, did you say
that at times you would do what you thought Mr. Trump wanted
you to do, not specifically what he told you to do?
Mr. Cohen. At times, yes.
Mr. Massie. So you just went on your intuition?
Mr. Cohen. I don't know if I would call it intuition, as
much as I would just say, my knowledge of what he wanted,
because it happened before, and I knew what he had wanted.
Mr. Massie. Does a lawyer have a duty to provide his client
with good legal advice?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Massie. Were you a good lawyer to Mr. Trump?
Mr. Cohen. I believe so.
Mr. Massie. When you arranged a payment to Ms. Clifford,
you say in your testimony--I'm going to quote from your
testimony--that you did so, quote, ``without bothering to
consider whether that was improper, much less whether it was
the right thing to do.'' You said that--unquote. That's your
testimony today. You said you didn't even consider whether it
was legal. How could you give your client legal advice when
you're not even considering whether it's legal?
Mr. Cohen. I did what I knew Mr. Trump wanted. This
conversation with Mr. Trump----
Mr. Massie. I didn't ask----
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. started----
Mr. Massie. I didn't ask whether you were a good fixer. I
asked whether you were a good lawyer.
Mr. Cohen. Well, sometimes you have to meld both together.
I needed to, at that time, ensure and protect Mr. Trump and----
Mr. Massie. So----
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. if I put my--which I'm clearly,
clearly suffering the penalty of--I clearly----
Mr. Massie. You said--let me--you said----
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. erred on the--on the side of wrong.
Mr. Massie. So you feel like, by--without bothering whether
to consider whether it was proper, much less whether it was the
right thing to do, by ignoring any conscience, if you have one,
that you were protecting Mr. Trump?
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry, sir. I don't understand your
question.
Mr. Massie. You feel that was how to protect -- as his
lawyer, you feel that you did a good job. You said you were a
good lawyer, right?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Mr. Massie. Is that being a good lawyer? To not even
consider whether it's legal or not?
Mr. Cohen. I didn't work for the campaign. I was working,
and I was trying to protect Mr. Trump.
Mr. Massie. I didn't say anything about the campaign. I
didn't ask you about----
Mr. Cohen. I sat with Mr. Trump -- and this goes back all
the way to 2011. This wasn't the first scenario with Ms.
Daniels.
Mr. Massie. Let's go back then.
Mr. Cohen. So, what my point--my point is, this is -- this
was an ongoing situation. It didn't just start in----
Mr. Massie. Right. Let's -- I want to yield back.
Mr. Cohen. But you have to let me finish.
Mr. Massie. Well----
Mr. Cohen. It started in Oc- -- it didn't start in October.
Mr. Massie. Let me -- let me ask you specifically on that.
Mr. Cohen. It started many years earlier.
Mr. Massie. When were you disbarred?
Mr. Cohen. Yesterday, from what I read in the paper.
Mr. Massie. Yesterday. When should you have been disbarred,
based on the legal counsel you were giving your client?
Mr. Cohen. I don't have an answer for your question.
Mr. Massie. How long were you counsel for Mr. Trump?
Mr. Cohen. Since 2007.
Mr. Massie. When is the first time you gave him bad legal
advice, or failed to inform him of his legal obligation, as you
testified today, you did in the case of the payment to Ms.
Clifford? When was the first time you did that? Would that
qualify for disbarment?
Mr. Cohen. I don't know, sir. I'm not the Bar Association.
Mr. Massie. I think you should consult with them maybe
occasionally on some of these things. Has anybody----
Mr. Cohen. Well, there's no point now. I lost my law
license.
Mr. Massie. Has anybody -- has anybody else promised to pay
Mr. Davis for representing you?
Mr. Cohen. No.
Mr. Massie. Nobody has?
Mr. Cohen. No. Are you offering?
Mr. Massie. Question, quickly. You said -- and this is also
in your testimony--in the days before the Democratic
Convention, you became privy to a conversation that some of
Hillary Clinton's emails would be leaked. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. Correct.
Mr. Massie. OK. Was that in -- you said late July. Do you
know the exact day?
Mr. Cohen. I believe it was either the 18th or the 19th,
and I would guess that it would be on the 19th.
Mr. Massie. But it was definitely July?
Mr. Cohen. I believe so, yes.
Mr. Massie. Do you know that was public knowledge in June?
This was -- Mr. Assange -- and I'd like to submit this --
unanimous consent to submit this for the record.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.
[The Assange article referenced above is available at:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jun/12/wikileaks-to-
publish-more-hillary-clinton-emails-julian-assange.]
Mr. Massie. Mr. Assange reported to the media on June 12th
that those emails would be leaked. So I'm not saying you have
fake news. I'm saying you have old news, and there's really not
much to that.
I would like to yield the remainder of my time to Mr.
Higgins.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Cohen, you know, I'm quoting you close, again earlier
you said, I spent last week looking through boxes to find
documents that would support your accusations. Where are those
boxes, good sir?
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry?
Mr. Higgins. Where are those boxes? Are they in your
garage?
Mr. Cohen. They're in storage.
Mr. Higgins. And are these not boxes that should have been
turned over to investigative authorities, during the many
criminal investigations you've been subject to?
Mr. Cohen. Sir, these are the boxes that were returned to
me post the raids.
Mr. Higgins. If they -- if they include data pertinent to
crimes that you've committed, should they not have been turned
over, remanded to investigative authority? Did Mr. Lanny Davis
know of these boxes?
Mr. Cohen. I don't understand your question.
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time is expired.
You may answer the question.
Mr. Cohen. I don't understand his question, sir.
Chairman Cummings. Very well.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi?
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Mr. Cohen, good morning. Thank you,
Chairman Cummings, for convening this hearing, and thank you,
Mr. Cohen, for voluntarily testifying this morning.
Mr. Cohen, you were the executive vice president and
special counsel for the Trump Organization, correct?
Mr. Cohen. I was the executive vice president special
counsel to Donald J. Trump.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And ``special counsel'' means you are
the attorney for him. Is that right?
Mr. Cohen. It just means I was there in order to handle
matters that he felt were significant and important to him
individually.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And those included legal matters?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, sir.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Sir, as a former attorney, you're
familiar with legal documents known as nondisclosure
agreements, or NDAs. Is that right?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. So I'm sure you know that NDAs,
properly written in scope, can be reasonable in certain
business contexts, but they can also be abused to create a
chilling effect to silence people, as we've seen in the Me Too
movement and other places. Isn't that right, Mr. Cohen?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And Mr. Cohen, the Trump Organization
used NDAs extensively. Isn't that right?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Mr. Cohen, I'm reading from a recent
Washington Post article regarding the language in one of these
types of NDAs where the terms were described as very broad. For
instance, the terms ``confidential information'' was defined to
be anything that, quote, ``Mr. Trump insists remain private or
confidential, including, but not limited to, any information
with respect to the personal life, political affairs, and/or
business affairs of Mr. Trump or any family member,'' closed
quote. Do those terms sound familiar to you?
Mr. Cohen. I've seen that document.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. In fact, there is a class-action
lawsuit filed this month by former Trump campaign worker
Jessica Denson that this NDA language is illegal, because it is
too broad, too vague, and would be used to retaliate against
employees who complain of illegality or wrongdoing.
Would you agree that in the use of the NDA -- of these
types of NDAs with this type of language, and later, when
Donald Trump sought to enforce them, that he intended to
prevent people from coming forward with claims of wrongdoing?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Would you agree that the effect of the
use of these NDAs and their enforcement was to have a chilling
effect on people or silence them from coming forward?
Mr. Cohen. I apologize, if you want to define ``chilling,''
I'm not sure----
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Oh, just that he would -- in using
these NDAs, or trying to enforce them, would basically try to
keep people silent?
Mr. Cohen. That was the goal.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And nothing at the Trump Organization
was ever done unless it was run through President Donald Trump,
correct?
Mr. Cohen. That's 100 percent certain.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. OK. Mr. Cohen, do you believe that
there are people out there today, either from the President's
business or personal life, who are not coming forward to tell
their stories of wrongdoing because of the President's use of
NDAs against them?
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry, sir. I don't know the answer to that
question.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. OK. Sir, I have a couple other
questions for you. When was the last communication with
President Trump or someone acting on his behalf?
Mr. Cohen. I don't have the specific date, but it was a
while ago.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. OK. Do you have a general timeframe?
Mr. Cohen. I would suspect it was within two months post
the raid of my -- my home, hotel.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. OK. So early fall of last year?
Generally?
Mr. Cohen. Generally.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And what did he or his agent
communicate to you?
Mr. Cohen. Unfortunately, this topic is actually something
that's being investigated right now by the Southern District of
New York, and I've been asked by them not to discuss, and not
to talk about these issues.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Fair enough. Is there any other
wrongdoing or illegal act that you are aware of regarding
Donald Trump that we haven't yet discussed today?
Mr. Cohen. Yes. And, again, those are part of the
investigation that's currently being looked at by the Southern
District of New York.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Sir, Congressman Cooper asked you about
whether you were aware of any physical violence committed by
President Trump. I just have a couple quick questions. Do you
have any knowledge of President Trump abusing any controlled
substances?
Mr. Cohen. I'm not aware of that, no.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Do you have any knowledge of President
Trump being delinquent on any alimony or child-care payments?
Mr. Cohen. I'm not aware of any of that.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Do you have any knowledge of President
Trump arranging any healthcare procedures for any women not in
his family?
Mr. Cohen. I'm not aware of that, no.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. Cohen. Thank you.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Cloud?
Mr. Cloud. Thank you, Chairman.
Mr. Cohen, can you tell me the significance of May 6th?
Mr. Cohen. In terms of, sir?
Mr. Cloud. Couple months from now.
Mr. Cohen. That's the day that I need to surrender----
Mr. Cloud. Yes, sir, it is.
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. to Federal prison.
Mr. Cloud. Could you, for the record, state what you've
been convicted of.
Mr. Cohen. I've been convicted on five counts of tax
evasion. There's one count of misrepresentation of documents to
a bank. There's two counts--one dealing with campaign finance
for Karen McDougal; one count of campaign finance violation for
Stormy Daniels, as well as lying to Congress.
Mr. Cloud. Thank you. Can you state what your official
title with the campaign was?
Mr. Cohen. I did not have a campaign title.
Mr. Cloud. And your position in the Trump administration?
Mr. Cohen. I did not have one.
Mr. Cloud. OK. In today's testimony, you said that you were
not looking to work in the White House. The Southern District
of New York, in their statement, their sentencing memo, says
this: ``Cohen's criminal violations in the Federal election
laws were also stirred, like other crimes, by his own ambition
and greed. Cohen privately told friends, colleagues, and
including seized text messages, that he expected to be given a
prominent role in the new administration. When that did not
materialize, Cohen found a way to monetize his relationship and
access with the President.'' So were they lying, or were you
lying today?
Mr. Cohen. I'm not saying it's a lie. I'm just saying it's
not accurate. I did not want to go to the White House. I
retained--and I brought an attorney and I sat with Mr. Trump,
with him, for well over an hour explaining the importance of
having a personal attorney. And every President has had one, in
order to handle matters like the matters I was dealing with,
which included, like Summer Zervos----
Mr. Cloud. I reclaim my time.
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. Stormy Daniels, dealing with
Stephanie Clifford----
Mr. Cloud. I ask unanimous consent to----
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. and other personal matters that
needed----
Mr. Cloud. Excuse me. This is my time. Thank you.
I ask unanimous consent to submit to this memo from the
Southern District of New York, New York for the record.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Cloud. All right. I'll give that to you in a second.
OK. This memo states that you committed four distinct
Federal crimes over a period of several years. You were
motivated to do so by personal greed and repeatedly used your
power to influence for deceptive ends. It goes on to say that
you were--that they each involved -- they were distinct in
their harms, but bear a common set of characteristics, that
they involved deception and were each motivated by personal
greed and ambition.
There's a lot we don't know in regards to this
investigation, but here's what we do know: We know that you
were expecting a job at the White House and didn't get it; you
made millions lying about your close access to the President;
you have a history of lying for personal gain, including--
that's banks, about your accountant, to law enforcement, and
your family, the Congress, the American people.
The Southern District of New York -- you said that you did
all this out of blind loyalty to Mr. Trump, but your sentencing
memo states this: ``This was not an act out of blind loyalty,
as Cohen suggests. Cohen was driven by a desire to further
ingratiate himself with the potential future President for whom
political success Cohen himself claimed credit for.''
Now, we're in a search for truth, and I don't know,
Chairman, how we're supposed to ascertain the truth in this
quagmire of a hearing when the best witness we can bring before
us has already been convicted of lying before us.
And what's sad is the American people have seen this play
out before. We have people in prominent positions fail, and
then a couple years later, they get a book deal. Now you're set
to go to jail for a couple years and come out with a
multimillion book deal. That's not bad living.
And so my question is, is, will you today--will you today
to--commit to donate any further proceeds to book deals, to
film reviews, to charity?
Mr. Cohen. No.
Mr. Cloud. Thank you. I yield my time.
Mr. Meadows. Will the gentleman yield? Will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. Cohen. May I -- may I finish?
Mr. Meadows. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. Cloud. Yield to Mr. Meadows.
Mr. Cohen. Mr. Chairman, may I finish my----
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Cohen----
Mr. Cohen. May I finish----
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Cohen, he's yielded to me, and so----
Mr. Cohen. I didn't finish my -- my response.
Mr. Meadows. Listen, everything's been made----
Mr. Cohen. I'm asking, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, may I
finish my response, please?
Chairman Cummings. I'll let you respond, but answer his
question, please.
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Cohen, everything's been made of your lies
in the past. I'm concerned about your lies today. Under your
testimony just a few minutes ago, to me, you indicated that you
had contracts with foreign entities, and yet, we have a truth
in testimony disclosure form, which requires you to list those
foreign contracts for the last two years, and you put NA on
there. And it's a criminal offense to not have that accurately.
So when were you lying, either in the testimony to me earlier
today, or when you filled out the form?
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Cohen, you may answer his question and then whatever
you wanted to say on that other one.
Mr. Cohen. His question, unfortunately, I don't have an
answer for his question. But as it----
Mr. Meadows. No, no, no, no, no. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. as it relates----
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman is out of order. He said
he does not have an answer.
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman, when we were in the majority,
with all due respect, Mr. Chairman, hold on.
Chairman Cummings. Regular order. The gentleman has just
said he doesn't have an answer. And you have gone over your
time.
Ms. Foxx. Well, he's under oath.
Mr. Meadows. He's under oath to tell the truth. One of them
is not accurate, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. You will--you will have time to ask the
question.
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Chairman, just a question. Mr. Chairman,
just a question.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Raskin? Mr. Raskin.
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Cohen, thank you for your composure today.
Our colleagues are not upset because you lied to Congress for
the President; they're upset because you stopped lying to
Congress for the President.
Now, you've described the Trump campaign as a once-in-a-
lifetime, money-making opportunity, the greatest informercial
of all time, I think you said. And this may be the most
trenchant observation of your whole testimony. Do you think the
Trump campaign or Presidency ever stopped being about making
money for the President, his family, and his organization?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Raskin. When did it stop being that?
Mr. Cohen. When he won the election.
Mr. Raskin. And what did it become about at that point?
Mr. Cohen. Then it had to be about figuring out what to do
here in Washington.
Mr. Raskin. Can you carefully explain to America how the
hush-money payments to Karen McDougal and Stormy Daniels
worked? Can you carefully explain what catch-and-kill is?
Mr. Cohen. Sure. I received a phone call regarding both
Karen McDougal, as well as Stormy Daniels, obviously different
times, stating that there were issues that were going to be
damaging to Mr. Trump. With the Stormy Daniels, it started in
2011, when she wanted to have something removed from a website,
and that was the first time I met Keith--I spoke with Keith
Davidson, her then-acting attorney, and we were successful in
having it taken down from the website.
It wasn't until years later did -- right -- by around the
time of the campaign, did they come back and they ask, what --
what are you going to do now, because she's back on the trail,
trying to sell the story, at which point in time, David Pecker,
on behalf of the National Enquirer, reached out to her and her
attorney, in order to go take a look at lie detector tests that
would prove that she is telling the truth. They then contacted
me and told me that she was telling the truth. At which point,
again, all the time----
Mr. Raskin. She took a lie detector test?
Mr. Cohen. She allegedly took a lie detector test and was
seen by an employee of the National Enquirer, at which point in
time I went straight into Mr. Trump's office and I explained
why this time it's different than another time.
Mr. Raskin. Okay. Now, when you say ``different than
another time,'' were there other women paid sexual hush-money
by Donald Trump or his organization? Was this a standard
operating practice?
Mr. Cohen. No.
Mr. Raskin. So you're not aware of any other cases where it
had taken place?
Mr. Cohen. I'm not aware of any other case that Mr. Trump
paid. So which brings us to the Karen McDougal. He was supposed
to pay. He was supposed to pay $125,000 for the life story of
Karen McDougal. For whatever the reason may be, he elected not
to pay it. David Pecker was very angry because there was also
other moneys that David had expended on his behalf.
Unfortunately, David never got paid back for that either.
Mr. Raskin. So David Pecker had done this in other cases of
other mistresses or women?
Mr. Cohen. Other circumstances, yes.
Mr. Raskin. Okay.
Mr. Cohen. Not all of them had to do with women.
Mr. Raskin. Are you aware of anything that the President
has done, at home or abroad, that may have subjected him to, or
may subject him to extortion or blackmail?
Mr. Cohen. I am not, no.
Mr. Raskin. Okay. Are you aware of any videotapes that may
be the subject of extortion or blackmail?
Mr. Cohen. I've heard about these tapes for a long time,
had many people contact me over the years. I have no reason to
believe that that tape exists.
Mr. Raskin. In December 2015, Donald Trump was asked about
his relationship with Felix Sater, a convicted felon and real
estate developer, and he replied, Felix Sater, boy, have to
even think about it, I'm not that familiar with him. Why did
Trump endeavor to hide his relationship with Felix Sater, and
what was his relationship?
Mr. Cohen. Well, he certainly had a relationship. Felix was
a partner in a company called Bayrock that was involved in the
deal of the Trump Soho Hotel, as well as, I believe, the Trump
Ft. Lauderdale project. Why did he want to distance himself?
That's what Mr. Trump does. He distances himself when things go
bad for someone. And at that point in time, it was going bad
for Mr. Sater.
Mr. Raskin. You said you lied to Congress about Trump's
negotiations to build his Moscow tower, because he made it
clear to you that he wanted you to lie. One of the reasons you
knew this is, because, quote, ``Mr. Trump's personal lawyers
reviewed and edited my statement to Congress about the timing
of the Moscow tower negotiations before I gave it.'' So this is
a pretty breathtaking claim, and I just want to get to the
facts here. Which specific lawyers reviewed and edited your
statement to Congress on the Moscow tower negotiations, and did
they make any changes to your statement?
Mr. Cohen. There were changes made, additions. Jay Sekulow,
for one----
Mr. Raskin. Were there changes about the timing? The
question----
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired.
You may answer that question.
Mr. Cohen. There were--there were several changes that were
made, including how we were going to handle that message. Which
was----
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Groth -- were you finished?
Mr. Cohen. Yes. The message, of course, being the length of
time that the Trump Tower Moscow project stayed and remained
alive.
Mr. Raskin. That was one of the changes?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Grothman?
Mr. Grothman. Yes, first of all, I'd like to clear up
something, just a little something that bothers me. You started
off your testimony, and you said, I think in response to some
question, that President Trump never expected to win. I just
want to clarify that I dealt with several--President Trump
several times as he was trying to get Wisconsin. He was always
confident. He was working very hard, and this idea that somehow
he was just running to raise his profile for some future
adventure, at least in my experience, is preposterous. I always
find it offensive when anti-Trump people imply that he just did
this on a lark and didn't expect to win.
But be that as it may, my first question concerns your
relationship with the court. Do you expect--I mean, right now,
I think you're sentenced to 3 years, correct?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Mr. Grothman. Do you expect any time, using this testimony,
other testimony, after you get done doing whatever you're going
to do this week, do you ever expect to go back and ask for any
sort of reduction in sentence?
Mr. Cohen. Yes. There are ongoing investigations currently
being conducted that have nothing to do with this committee or
Congress, that I am assisting in, and it is for the benefit of
a Rule 35 motion, yes.
Mr. Grothman. So you expect, and perhaps what you testify
here today will affect going back and reducing this, what we
think is a relatively light, three-year sentence? You expect to
go back and ask for a further reduction?
Mr. Cohen. Based off of my appearance here today?
Mr. Grothman. Well, based upon whatever you do between now
and your request for----
Mr. Cohen. The Rule 35 motion is in the complete hands of
the Southern District of New York. And the way the Rule 35
motion works is, what you're supposed to do, is provide them
with information that leads to ongoing investigations. I am
currently working with them right now on several other issues
of investigation that concerns them, that they're looking at.
If those investigations become fruitful, then there is a
possibility for a Rule 35 motion. And I don't know what the
benefit in terms of time would be, but this congressional
hearing today is not going to be the basis of a Rule 35 motion.
I wish it was, but it's not.
Mr. Grothman. I'd like to yield some time to Congressman
Jordan.
Mr. Jordan. I yield to the gentleman from North Carolina.
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Cohen, I'm going to come back to the
question I asked before, with regards to your false statement
that you submitted to Congress. On here, it was very clear,
that it asked for contracts with foreign entities over the last
two years. Have you had any foreign contract with foreign
entities, whether it's Novartis or the Korean airline or
Kazakhstan BTA Bank? Your testimony earlier said that you had
contracts with them. In fact, you went into detail----
Mr. Cohen. I believe it talks about lobbying. I did no
lobbying. On top of that they are not government----
Mr. Meadows. In your testimony -- I'm not asking about
lobbying, Mr. Cohen.
Mr. Cohen. They are not government agencies. They are
privately and----
Mr. Meadows. Do you have--do you have foreign contracts----
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. publicly traded companies.
Mr. Meadows. Do you have foreign contracts?
Mr. Cohen. I currently have no foreign contracts.
Mr. Meadows. Did you have foreign contracts over the last
two years?
Mr. Cohen. Foreign contracts?
Mr. Meadows. Contracts with foreign entities, did you have
contracts?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Meadows. Yes?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Meadows. Why didn't you put them on the form? It says
it's a criminal offense to not put them on this form for the
last two years. Why did you not do that?
Mr. Cohen. Because those foreign companies that you're
referring to are not government companies.
Mr. Meadows. It says nongovernmental, Mr. Cohen. You signed
it.
Mr. Cohen. They're talking about me as being
nongovernmental.
Mr. Meadows. And right. It says foreign agency--It says
foreign contracts. Do you want us to read it to you?
Mr. Cohen. I read it and it was reviewed by my counsel, and
I am a nongovernment employee. It was not lobbying, and they
are not foreign contracts.
Mr. Meadows. It has nothing to do with lobbying. It says
it's a criminal offense to not list all your foreign contracts.
That's what it says.
Mr. Cohen. Well, then, I'm going to take a look at it
before I leave----
Mr. Meadows. No, you've----
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. and I will -- and hopefully I will
amend it prior to leaving, because that's not the way I read
your document.
Mr. Meadows. You know, it's just one more example, Mr.
Cohen, of you skirting the truth.
OK, I want to ask one other question.
One other question, Mr. Cohen. It's my time, not yours.
Were you advised, or was your counsel advised to withhold
your written testimony to the latest possible date as John Dean
said last night on CNN?
Mr. Cohen. Was it my what?
Mr. Meadows. Were you advised, or was your counsel advised,
to withhold your written testimony to this committee, at the
latest possible date to give it to this committee, at the
latest possible date as John Dean said that he advised you? Yes
or no?
Mr. Cohen. No. We were----
Mr. Meadows. He never advised you?
Mr. Cohen. We -- John Dean? I've never spoken with John
Dean.
Mr. Meadows. Has he spoken to your attorney?
Mr. Cohen. I--I don't know. I've never spoken to John Dean.
Mr. Meadows. Well, ask your attorney. He's right there
behind you.
Mr. Cohen. We were working last night till -- till 11, 12
at night, and it----
Mr. Meadows. You've known that you've been coming for some
time. I----
Chairman Cummings. You may answer the question. Answer the
question, if you recall.
Mr. Cohen. We were working till 11, 12 last night to finish
everything.
Mr. Meadows. So you were writing it last night, Mr. Cohen?
Mr. Cohen. We were making edits----
Mr. Meadows. Don't give me that bull.
Mr. Cohen. We were making edits all the way through the
night.
Chairman Cummings. I recognize Mr. Rouda.
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry.
Mr. Rouda. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Cohen, in November 2013, President Donald Trump
testified under oath in a lawsuit related to the failed real
estate project Trump International Hotel and Tower in Ft.
Lauderdale. During the deposition, President Trump was asked
about his knowledge of Felix Sater, a Russian-born real estate
developer and convicted member of the Russian Mafia, who,
according to press reports, pled guilty for his role in a 40
million stock manipulation scheme.
And it's worth noting and it's well-publicized the direct
relationship between the Russian Mafia and the Kremlin. Over
the years, President Trump was asked how many times he
interacted with convicted Russian mobster Felix Sater. In 2013,
President Trump testified that, quote, ``not many. If he were
sitting in the room right now, I really wouldn't know what he
looked like,'' unquote.
Mr. Cohen, as you previously testified, isn't it true that
President Trump knew convicted Russian mobster Felix Sater in
2013 when he made that statement?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Rouda. Isn't it true that, because of Mr. Sater's
relationship to the Trump Organization, that he had an office
in the Trump Tower?
Mr. Cohen. And on the 26th floor, Mr. Trump's----
Mr. Rouda. And the 26th floor is important why?
Mr. Cohen. Because it's Mr. Trump's floor.
Mr. Rouda. So he had an office on the same floor as
President Trump?
Mr. Cohen. In fact, his office, when he left, became my
office.
Mr. Rouda. And isn't it also true that convicted Russian
mobster Sater even had business cards indicating that he was a
senior advisor to Donald Trump as reported by The Washington
Post?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Rouda. Did convicted Russian mobster Sater pay rent for
his office?
Mr. Cohen. No, he did not.
Mr. Rouda. So, based on these facts, isn't it true that
President Trump misled, at best, or worst, lied under oath?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Rouda. In December 2015, President Trump was asked
again about his relationship to convicted Russian mobster, Mr.
Sater by a reporter for the Associated Press. He stated, quote,
``Felix Sater, boy, I have to even think about it,'' unquote.
He added, quote, ``I'm not that familiar with him,'' unquote.
Mr. Cohen, where would we find business records that explained
the President's relationship to the convicted Russian mobster
Felix Sater? Would those be in the Trump Organization's files?
Mr. Cohen. They'd be in the Trump Organization's files.
There would be CCs to Bayrock, which was the name of Mr.
Sater's company. I suspect on Mr. Sater's email address,
possibly hard files in possession of Mr. Sater.
Mr. Rouda. And when you say ``in possession of the Trump
Organization,'' where?
Mr. Cohen. It depends upon who the attorney was that was
working on it. Now it would probably be in a box offsite. They
have a storage facility that they----
Mr. Rouda. OK.
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. put old files.
Mr. Rouda. In addition to convicted Russian mobster Sater,
do you know of any other ties to convicted or alleged mobsters
President Trump may have?
Mr. Cohen. I am not aware.
Mr. Rouda. Isn't it true that many people with ties to
Russia ultimately bought condos in Trump properties usually for
cash, and if so, how many are we talking? 10, 20, 50, hundreds?
Mr. Cohen. I'm not--honestly, sir, I'm not aware of any.
You know, the statement that was--you're referring to, I
believe, is made by either Eric or Don. And I don't agree with
it.
Mr. Rouda. So are you aware of any cash purchases by
Russian oligarchs and family members of Trump properties?
Mr. Cohen. I'm not aware of that. I can tell you, when you
say cash, if you mean walking in with a satchel of rubles, the
answer is, I've never seen that happen. I've never heard of it.
I will tell you, when we sold Mr. Trump's property in Palm
Beach, the home for $95 million, it came in by wire, and that
came from Mr. Rybolovlev's bank account.
Mr. Rouda. One other question. You also talked about
President Trump doing negotiations throughout the campaign,
regarding the Trump Tower in Moscow. Was he directly involved
in those negotiations, and if so, how do you know?
Mr. Cohen. Well, the answer is yes. And as it relates to
negotiations, it was merely followups as to what's currently
happening, what's happening with Russia, meaning he wanted me
to give him a status report. The problem with this is that the
project never advanced because they were unable--Mr. Sater was
unable to provide me with proof that somebody owned or
controlled a piece of property that we can actually build on.
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Rouda. Thank you.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Amash?
Mr. Amash. Mr. Cohen, why did Mr. Trump choose to hire you,
and why did he trust you with the various tasks that you
performed for him?
Mr. Cohen. I don't know, sir. You would have to ask him
that question.
Mr. Amash. Well, we've heard here that you have bad
character. You've admitted to that over the years. You have no
idea why he chose to hire you?
Mr. Cohen. In 2006, I was asked by Don Jr. to come meet
with his father; I did. He then followed up by asking if I
would take a look at an issue that was occurring at Trump World
Tower with the board. I went ahead and I looked into it, and I
found that the statements that the board were making about Mr.
Trump were inaccurate.
And the reason Don came to me is because I had an apartment
there for investment. My parents had an apartment there, my in-
laws lived there, friends of mine, we all bought as a big block
from a brokerage company, and we got a good price on each unit.
And we ultimately turned over the board, and I became,
actually, the treasurer of the board because the out-of-control
spending was going to put the building into bankruptcy, and I
was proud to say that within a year, we had plus a million
dollars, versus minus 1.3.
At the end of the day, Mr. Trump appreciated that, and he
tasked me with something else. It was to handle a problem that
Don Jr. had created in terms of a business, a license deal. And
we resolved that.
And then on top of that, the third time, Mr. Trump had
asked me to take a look at the third Trump Entertainment Resort
Chapter 11 reorganization, because he had a series of questions
that he wanted answered. And I read these two stack books, gave
him the answers that he needed, and with that, he--and the next
time I was sitting in his office, and he asked me if I was
happy at the sleepy old firm that I was with. I said yes. He
said, Would you rather work for me? And I asked, Are you
offering me a job? And he said, Yes. And we negotiated, and I
actually never went back to my office.
Mr. Amash. All right. You suggested that the President
sometimes communicates his wishes indirectly. For example, you
said, quote, ``Mr. Trump did not directly tell me to lie to
Congress, that's not how he operates,'' end quote. Can you
explain how he does this?
Mr. Cohen. Sure. It would be no different if I said, That's
the nicest looking tie I've ever seen, isn't it? What are you
going to do, are you going to fight with him? The answer is no.
So you say, yes, it's the nicest looking tie I've ever seen.
That's how he speaks. He doesn't give you questions. He doesn't
give you orders. He speaks in a code, and I understand the code
because I've been around him for a decade.
Mr. Amash. And it's your impression that others who work
for him understand the code as well?
Mr. Cohen. Most people, yes.
Mr. Amash. Mr. Cohen, I don't know whether we should
believe you today, but I'm going to ask you this one last
question. What is the truth that you know President Trump fears
most?
Mr. Cohen. That's a tough question, sir. I don't--I don't--
I don't have an answer for that one. What does he fear most?
Mr. Amash. What's the truth that he fears most? From your
perspective. And again, I don't know whether we should believe
you here today, but----
Mr. Cohen. It's a tough question, sir. I don't know how to
answer that question.
Mr. Amash. All right. Let me ask you this: What principles
have you chosen to follow in your life, and do you wish to
follow different principles now?
Mr. Cohen. I've always tried to be a good person. I've
tried to be a great friend. There were many, I think over 40
statements written in my support to the sentencing judge. I
have friends who I treat incredibly well that I know for over
40 years. And I treat people, after 40 minutes, the same exact
way.
Am I perfect? No. Do I make mistakes? Yes. Have I made
mistakes? Absolutely. I'm going to pay the consequences for it.
But all I would like to do is be able to get my life back,
to protect my wife and my children, support, and grow old.
That's pretty much where I'd like to be.
Mr. Amash. And you feel you're following a different set of
principles now than you followed throughout your life?
Mr. Cohen. I do. And I'm trying. I'm trying very hard. I
thank you for your questions. Some of the other ones really
make it difficult to try to, you know, show some redemption.
But, you know, I am trying. I am trying.
Mr. Amash. All right. Thank you.
Mr. Cohen. Thank you.
Chairman Cummings. Ms. Hill.
Ms. Hill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to mention really quick a clarification on the truth
and testimony form. The mention was around whether it talks
about foreign entities at all. And the question is, in fact,
whether witnesses have any contracts or payments originating
with a foreign government. It does not cover all foreign
entities, just foreign government entities.
So, Mr. Cohen, what I'd like to ask you to do is review
this issue over lunch with your attorneys. And if you need to
amend your form, we ask that you do that before the conclusion
of today's hearing.
Also, I represent a purple district. I did not come here
for partisan bickering. In fact, I actively wanted to avoid it.
So when I ask these questions today, it is not as someone who
has a vendetta against the President. It's as someone who comes
from generations of servicemembers who swore an oath to obey
the orders of the President of the United States and who, along
with myself and every single other person up here, swore to
uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States.
My forefathers served their country, they served their
Commander in Chief, and they served the idea that America is
free and just and that the law of the land rules us all,
especially those in the highest levels of our government.
So I ask these questions to help determine whether our very
own President committed felony crimes while serving in the Oval
Office, including efforts to conceal payments that were
intended to mislead the public and influence the outcome of an
election. I hope to God that is not the case.
So, Mr. Cohen, on January 22, 2018, just days after the
Wall Street Journal broke the story that Mr. Cohen paid
$130,000 to Stephanie Clifford to silence her during the 2016
Presidential campaign, a nonprofit watchdog called Common Cause
filed a complaint with the Department of Justice and FEC
alleging the payment to Ms. Clifford may have represented an
illegal in-kind contribution to the Trump campaign. I ask that
their complaint be entered into the record.
Chairman Cummings. So ordered.
[The information referred to follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Ms. Hill. On February 13, 2018, Mr. Cohen, you sent a
statement to the reporters that said, quote, ``I used my own
personal funds to facilitate a payment of $130,000 to Ms.
Stephanie Clifford, and neither The Trump Organization nor the
Trump campaign was party to the transaction with Ms. Clifford
and neither reimbursed me for the payment either directly or
indirectly.'' Was the statement false?
Mr. Cohen. The statement is not false. I purposefully left
out Mr. Trump individually from that statement.
Ms. Hill. OK. Why did you say it that way?
Mr. Cohen. Because that's what was discussed to do between
myself, Mr. Trump, and Allen Weisselberg.
Ms. Hill. So it was carefully worded?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Hill. Great.
Mr. Cohen, a reporter for the magazine Vanity Fair has
reported that she interviewed you the very next day, on
February 14, 2018, about the payment and reimbursement. And she
wrote, quote, ``Last February 14, I interviewed Cohen in his
office about the statement he gave the FEC in which he said
Trump didn't know about the Stormy payment or reimbursed him
for it.''
Do you recall this meeting with the reporter?
Mr. Cohen. I do.
Ms. Hill. The reporter also wrote, ``Trump called while I
was there. I couldn't hear much, but he wanted to go over what
the public messaging would be.''
Is that accurate?
Mr. Cohen. It is.
Ms. Hill. Did the President call you while you were having
a meeting with the reporter?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Ms. Hill. Did the President call you to coordinate on
public messaging about the payments to Ms. Clifford in or
around February 2018?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Ms. Hill. What did the President ask or suggest that you
say about the payments or reimbursements?
Mr. Cohen. He was not knowledgeable of these
reimbursements, and he wasn't knowledgeable of my actions.
Ms. Hill. He asked you to say that?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Hill. Great.
In addition to the personal check for $35,000 in July 2017,
is there additional corroborating evidence that Mr. Trump,
while a sitting President of the United States, directly
reimbursed you hush money as part of a criminal scheme to
violate campaign finance laws?
Mr. Cohen. There are 11 checks that I received for the
year. The reason why 11, because, as I stated before, one had
two checks.
Ms. Hill. And you have copies of all of those?
Mr. Cohen. I can get copies. I'd have to go to the bank.
Ms. Hill. So we will be able to get copies of all 11 checks
that Mr. Trump provided to you as part of this criminal scheme?
Mr. Cohen. It's either from his personal account, as what
was demonstrated in the exhibit, or it would come from the
Donald J. Trump account, the trust account.
Ms. Hill. Thank you, Mr. Cohen.
I yield back the remainder of my times.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Gibbs.
Mr. Gibbs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
You know, I've just been sitting here. I'm new to the
committee. I'm not an attorney. Sometimes, Mr. Cohen, it sounds
like, from your answers, you are either incompetent or are a
liar. I think maybe I can be a better attorney. I don't know.
I'm looking through this. You come in here, and you rail on
the President of the United States, Commander in Chief, while
he's over across the Pacific Ocean trying to negotiate a deal
to make this world safer.
And, Mr. Chairman, just having this committee at this time
when the Commander in Chief is out of the country is just --
it's just -- I think is a new precedent.
But you call him a racist, a cheat, and, you know, you
attacked his character. And I've been with the President a
little bit and I didn't see that in the President. I see a
President who's very sincere, who's trying to make this country
better for every American.
And for you to come in here and do that, repentance on your
part is really unbelievable. Real repentance would be go serve
your time and don't come back here and make allegations toward
a man you can't substantiate.
Now, I'm looking here from the remarks from the prosecutor
of the Southern District of New York. False statements to bank
three, which Cohen pleaded guilty, was far from an isolated
event. It was one of a long series of self-serving lies Cohen
told numerous financial institutions.
Earlier in your testimony, I think I heard you say it only
is a home equity loan. But apparently the prosecutors in New
York think that there's other financial things that you did.
You also, they said, managed to commit a series of crimes
all with holding himself out as a licensed attorney and
upstanding member of the bar.
Also, the Southern District prosecutor said that -- wrote
that your consciousness of wrongdoing is fleeting, that your
remorse is minimal, and that your instinct to blame others is
strong.
So I'm kind of left here why--you worked for the President
for 10 years before he was President. If you have any sense of
integrity like you're trying to tell us you have now, if it was
that bad, why didn't you leave? You weren't stuck there because
of financial reasons. You had ways to leave. You're an
attorney.
And so that's just kind of, you know -- the President's
working tirelessly, and you come and make these allegations,
and you could have left any time you want. It looks like to me
you're trying to save face.
And with the other questions that came out here was it
looks like to me you're going to have a very lucrative deal at
some point in your life, because you don't look like you're
close to retirement. You're going to have some type of
lucrative deal.
And so one of my questions is, and it's come up a little
bit, talks with you and your attorney. And there's been talks
about Members of Congress and staff. And you said there was
some discussions.
Was any of those discussions that you or your attorneys had
with Members of Congress or staff or prosecutors to give
considerations to favor or other considerations to you or your
family in the future?
Mr. Cohen. No. The conversations were about the topics,
because there were things that originally we could not speak
about at the request of -- whether it was the special counsel's
office or the Southern District or any of the other agencies,
including the House Select Intel or the Senate Select Intel.
Sir, just for your personal edification here, I was asked
to come here. Your chairman sent a letter to Mr. Davis, and I
accepted. So I'm here voluntarily.
Mr. Gibbs. I understand that.
Mr. Cohen. And if you believe that I'm----
Mr. Gibbs. It's my time. I understand. I think it's a
political theater.
Mr. Cohen. Sir, if you believe -- it's not political
theater for me. And I take no pleasure in saying anything
negative about Mr. Trump.
You've met him for a short period of time. I've been with
him for over a decade. I've traveled with him internationally.
I've spent dinners with him. It doesn't make me feel good about
what's going on here.
And as far as saving face, I'm not sure how being in front
of the world, being called a tax cheat----
Mr. Gibbs. Well, this world today, with these lucrative
book deals, movies that come about, I think you'll be pretty
good in about five years.
I yield the rest of my time to the ranking member.
Mr. Jordan. I thank the gentleman for yielding.
Earlier you said you started the campaign?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct, in 2011.
Mr. Jordan. You started the campaign for President of the
United States for Donald Trump?
Mr. Cohen. I certainly did, sir.
Mr. Jordan. Now, that's news.
Mr. Cohen. ShouldTrumpRun.com.
Mr. Jordan. Wow.
Mr. Cohen. 2011. It was my idea. I saw a document in the
newspaper that said, Who would you vote for in 2012? Six
percent of the people said----
Mr. Jordan. Michael Cohen. Michael Cohen.
Mr. Cohen. Michael Cohen.
Six percent of the people turned around and said they'd
vote for Donald Trump.
Mr. Jordan. The reason Donald Trump is President is because
of Michael Cohen?
Mr. Cohen. So I went into his office, and I said to him,
``Mr. Trump, take a look at this.''
And he goes, ``Wow, wouldn't that be great.'' And with that
is where it all started.
Mr. Jordan. Yes. OK. Like, I'm sure -- I'm sure he had
never thought of anything like that until you came along.
Mr. Cohen. No, I didn't say that either.
Mr. Jordan. Let me ask you one question. I got eight
seconds. I got eight seconds.
What did you talk to Mr. Schiff about?
Mr. Cohen. I spoke to Mr. Schiff about topics that were
going to be raised at the upcoming hearing.
Mr. Jordan. Whoa. Not just what time to show up. Actually
what you're going to talk about?
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Jordan. Wow.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Sarbanes. Mr. Sarbanes.
Mr. Sarbanes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Cohen.
I know the other side is suggesting that you are an
incorrigible liar and that you're lying here today. I can't
think of anything you have to gain at this point from lying. I
mean, they talk about book deals and other things that you want
to do. But I see a lot more that you could lose by telling the
truth today given the threats and other things that have been
made against you and your family. So that's how I'm
interpreting it. And, of course, you brought documents with you
as well to bolster the credibility of your testimony.
I did want to go back to an earlier line of questioning
regarding the preparation of your testimony before you came
before the Intelligence Committee. You talked about a meeting
at the White House where the testimony was being reviewed. And
I think you said there it was at least one White House
attorney, Jay Sekulow, who was there, and you acknowledged that
there was some edits that were made to your testimony.
So on that topic, who at the White House reviewed your
testimony?
Mr. Cohen. I don't know the answer to that. The document
was originally created by myself along with my attorney at the
time from McDermott Will & Emery. And there was a joint defense
agreement, so the document circulated around. I believe it was
also reviewed by Abbe Lowell, who represents Ivanka and Jared
Kushner.
Mr. Sarbanes. Why did you provide the testimony to the
White House?
Mr. Cohen. It was pursuant to the joint defense agreement
that we were all operating under.
Mr. Sarbanes. What were the edits that came back
substantively on the testimony?
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry. I don't know, sir. I'd have to take a
look at the document.
Mr. Sarbanes. Did you have a--do you have a reaction to why
there might not have been, in a sense, a protest to what was
going to be false testimony that was going to be provided?
Mr. Cohen. No, sir, because the goal was to stay on
message. It's just limit the relationship whatsoever with
Russia. It was short. There's no Russian contacts. There's no
Russian collusion. There's no Russian deals. That's the
message. That's the same message that existed well before my
need to come and testify.
Mr. Sarbanes. So it's an example of where this idea, this
mentality of you toe the line, whatever the story line or the
narrative of the day or the month or the year is going to be,
you toe that line whether it results in false testimony or not.
Mr. Cohen. I toed the party line, and I'm now suffering.
And I'm going to continue to suffer for a while, along with my
family, as a result of it. So yes.
Mr. Sarbanes. Let me switch gears quickly before my time
expires. And you may not have direct knowledge of some of these
things, but you're offering us some very helpful perspective on
how the Trump world operates.
And, frankly, another reason I find your testimony fairly
compelling and credible is because a lot of the things you're
describing, a lot of the behavior you're describing, is very
consistent with what we all see every single day. So it's not a
leap for us to arrive in the same place and perspective that
you have presented.
I'm interested in some of the activities around the
inaugural committee, the inauguration of the President. There
was an article that appeared in ProPublica, it's a watchdog
group, about some negotiation on pricing of things at the Trump
Hotel, where it looks like the rental that was being quoted was
substantially even double what you would expect to pay
according to what the market should bear. And so, in a sense,
the Trump Hotel was up-charging to the inaugural committee.
Mr. Cohen. Even I couldn't afford to stay there.
Mr. Sarbanes. Yeah.
And so I'm just curious. Do you have a sense of whether
that kind of a practice is something that is consistent or
inconsistent? Is it possible that that kind of up-charging
could be done inside a Trump operation?
Mr. Cohen. It did happen.
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Cohen. And what I can say to you is I wasn't part of
the inaugural committee. I raised a lot of money for the
inauguration, but I was not part of it. And there was a lot of
things in that actually, that issue is something that's also,
obviously, we've read about in the paper being investigated at
the current moment.
Mr. Sarbanes. Thank you.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Higgins.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Cohen, it's on my heart to tell you, sir, that -- and
I'm sorry for what your family is going through. I feel for
your family.
Mr. Cohen. Thank you.
Mr. Higgins. The word tells us clearly that a man's mouth
is his destruction and his lips are the snare of his soul. And
I see you, a man trapped in that.
However, I must tell you that I've arrested several
thousand men and you remind me of many of them. The ones that
immediately become humble and remorseful at the time they're
actually booked, and while they're incarcerated they're quite
penitent, and then return to their former selves when they're
back on the street.
So respectful to your family and what they're going
through, I owe you the honesty to tell you that that's my sense
of you, good sir.
I'm going to give you another opportunity to respond to
what you brushed off earlier regarding your own statement
during this testimony from C-SPAN notation at 2 hours and 50
seconds in.
You stated regarding your credibility that you're being
accused of having no credibility, that it is exactly for that
reason I spent the last week searching boxes to find the
information that I did so that you don't have to take my word
for it. I want you to look at the documents and make your own
decisions.
Now, the documents you're referring to, Mr. Cohen, are the
documents that you submitted in your -- with your testimony
today. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. That is correct.
Mr. Higgins. You believe those documents to be worthy of
evidence for this oversight hearing today?
Mr. Cohen. I leave that to you to decide.
Mr. Higgins. And I ask you again sir, and please don't be
incredulous, this is a serious question, where are those boxes
that contain documents worthy of evidence to be presented to
Congress? And why have they not been turned over to
investigating authorities looking into some of the many
criminal activities that you're allegedly cooperating in? Where
are these boxes? Who knows--where is this treasure of evidence?
Mr. Cohen. The boxes that I'm referring to were boxes that
were in my law office when the FBI entered and seized documents
when I was moving----
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Chairman, I move that the investigating
authorities have noted what the gentleman had just stated and
that actions be taken for those boxes to be seized and reviewed
based upon a proper warrant signed by a sitting judge.
You noted earlier today, Mr. Cohen, quite incredulously,
one of my colleagues asked you regarding the television deal,
you expressed wonderment that your predicament could possibly
get you on television. It certainly got you on television
today, has it not, sir?
Mr. Cohen. Sir, I was on television representing Mr. Trump
going back into 2011.
Mr. Higgins. Well, I didn't know who you were until today,
really. Until the FBI raided your home, most of America didn't
know who you were.
How many attorneys do you think Mr. Trump has had through
the course of his career? Quite a few, I would imagine. You're
just one that's in a trap right now. And I understand you're
trying to get out of it. You're in a bind.
But I ask you, good sir, have you discussed film and book
deals with your stated current attorney, Mr. Davis, Lanny
Davis?
Mr. Cohen. With Mr. Davis?
Mr. Higgins. Yes.
Mr. Cohen. No. But I have been approached by many people
who are looking to do book deals, movie deals, and so on. So
the answer to that is yes.
Mr. Higgins. This is your right as an American. But it
leads me back to my instinct that compares you to many of the
men that I have arrested during the course of my career.
Mr. Cohen. With all due respect, sir----
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Chairman, I ask that our primary hearing
to introduce the Oversight Committee, the 116th Congress, to
the American people, has manifested in the way that it
obviously is. This is an attempt to injure our President, lay
some sort of soft cornerstone for future impeachment
proceedings. This is the full intent of the majority.
I yield my remaining 30 seconds to the ranking member.
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Cohen, earlier you said the United States
Southern District of New York is not accurate in that
statement.
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry. Say that again.
Mr. Jordan. Earlier you said that the United States
Southern District of New York Attorney's Office, that statement
is not accurate. You said it's not a lie. You said it's not
accurate. Do you stand by that?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, I did not want a role in the new
administration.
Mr. Jordan. So the court's wrong?
Mr. Cohen. Sir, can I finish, please?
Mr. Jordan. Sure.
Mr. Cohen. I got exactly the role that I wanted. There is
no shame in being personal attorney to the President. I got
exactly what I wanted. I asked Mr. Trump for that job, and he
gave it to me.
Mr. Jordan. All I'm asking, if I could--and I appreciate
it, Mr. Chairman -- you're saying that statement from the
Southern District of New York attorneys is wrong.
Mr. Cohen. I'm saying I didn't write it, and it's not
accurate.
Mr. Jordan. All right. Thank you.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Welch.
Mr. Welch. Thank you.
One of the most significant events in the last Presidential
campaign, of course, was the dump of emails stolen from the
Democratic National Committee, dumped by WikiLeaks.
Mr. Cohen, during your opening statement, which was at the
height of the election, you testified you were actually meeting
with Donald Trump in July 2016 when Roger Stone happened to
call and tell Mr. Trump that he had just spoken to Julian
Assange. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. That is correct.
Mr. Welch. All right. And you said that Mr. Assange told
Mr. Trump about an upcoming--quoting your opening statement--
quote, ``massive dump of emails that would damage Hillary
Clinton's campaign.''
So I want to ask you about Roger Stone's phone call to the
President.
First of all, was that on Speakerphone? Is that what you
indicated?
Mr. Cohen. Yes. So Mr. Trump has a black Speakerphone that
sits on his desk. He uses it quite often because with all the
number of phone calls he gets.
Mr. Welch. All right. Now, in January of this year, 2019,
the New York Times asked President Trump if he ever spoke to
Roger Stone about these stolen emails, and President Trump
answered, and I quote, ``No, I didn't. I never did.''
Was that statement by President Trump true?
Mr. Cohen. No, it's not accurate.
Mr. Welch. And can you please describe for us, to the best
of your recollection, you were present, exactly what Mr. Stone
said to Mr. Trump?
Mr. Cohen. It was a short conversation, and he said, Mr.
Trump, I just want to let you know that I just got off the
phone with Julian Assange, and in a couple of days there's
going to be a massive dump of emails that's going to severely
hurt the Clinton campaign.
Mr. Welch. And was Mr. Trump and Mr. Stone aware of where
those emails came from?
Mr. Cohen. That, I'm not aware of.
Mr. Welch. Did Mr. Trump ever suggest then or later to call
the FBI to report this breach?
Mr. Cohen. He never expressed that to me.
Mr. Welch. Did the President at that time or ever since, in
your knowledge, indicate an awareness that this conduct was
wrong?
Mr. Cohen. No.
Mr. Welch. The reason I ask is because on July 22, on the
eve of the Democratic convention, WikiLeaks published, as you
know, the 20,000 leaked internal DNC emails.
Could your meeting with Mr. Trump have been before that
date?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Welch. So Mr. Trump was aware of the upcoming dump
before it actually happened?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Welch. And is there any recollection----
Mr. Cohen. No, sir, I don't know whether he knew or not,
and I don't believe he did, what the sum and substance of the
dump was going to be, only that there was going to be a dump of
emails.
Mr. Welch. And he was aware of that before the dump
occurred, correct?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, sir.
Mr. Welch. All right. And are there any records that would
corroborate the day of this meeting? Calendars, perhaps.
Mr. Cohen. I'm not in possession. But I believe, again,
this is part of the special counsel. And they are probably best
suited to corroborate that information.
Mr. Welch. Was anyone else present in the room during the
call?
Mr. Cohen. I don't recall for this one, no, sir.
Mr. Welch. Is there anyone else the committee should talk
to about the President's knowledge of the WikiLeaks email dump?
Mr. Cohen. Oh, again, when he called, Rhona Graff yelled
out to Mr. Trump, Roger's on line 1, which was regular
practice.
Mr. Welch. And that's his assistant?
Mr. Cohen. That's his -- yes.
Mr. Welch. All right. And during a news conference on July
27, 2016, then candidate Trump publicly appealed to Russia to
hack Hillary Clinton's emails and make them public. He stated,
and I quote, ``Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able
to find the 30,000 emails that are missing.''
Now, going back to Mr. Stone's phone call to the President,
do you recall if Mr. Trump had knowledge of the WikiLeaks dump
at the time of his direct appeal to Russia?
Mr. Cohen. I am not.
Mr. Welch. But the call with Mr. Stone, you believe, was
before----
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Welch [continuing]. this 27th----
Mr. Cohen. Yes. I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about
a different set of documents that got dumped.
So I was in Mr. Trump's office. It was either July 18th or
19th. And, yes, he went ahead. I don't know if the 35,000--or
30,000 emails was what he was referring to, but he certainly
had knowledge.
Mr. Welch. All right. Thank you.
Just one last question.
Mr. Raskin had been asking you some questions. And one of
the things in your answer was that Mr. Pecker expended other
moneys to protect Mr. Trump.
Can you elaborate on what some of those other activities
were?
Mr. Cohen. Sure. There was the story about Mr. Trump having
a love child with an employee--with an employee. And, actually,
the husband of that employee works for the company as well. And
there was an elevator operator who claims that he overheard the
conversation taking place between one of Mr. Trump's other
executives and somebody. And he ended up paying like $15,000 in
order to buy that story to find out whether it was true or not.
And that's just one example of things that David had done
over the years. It was the reason why, in the recording, when
David was looking to become the CEO of Time magazine, we were
concerned about--we'll call it the treasure trove of documents
that had been created over the years that, if he left, somebody
could open up the key to a drawer and find all this
information. So we were going to look to buy all of those life
rights and so on.
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Norman.
Mr. Norman. Mr. Cohen, thank you for testifying. I join
Congressman Higgins in feeling for your family. They have no
part in this.
You know, I've heard all the testimony, and I'm trying to
decide what Clay is trying to decide. Are you really sorry for
what you did or you just got caught?
And the thing that amazed me is that in your opening
statement--which, let me quote, ``Last fall I pled guilty in
Federal court to felonies for the benefit of, at the direction
of, and in coordination with Individual 1.'' Was that the
President?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, sir.
Mr. Norman. OK. Your crimes were of your own to benefit
yourself. Go through----
Mr. Cohen. Some of them, yes.
Mr. Norman. No. Go through all the ones with the real
estate, with the banks. On your HELOC loan, you failed to
disclose more than $20 million in debt. You failed to disclose
$70,000 in monthly payments. On your $14 million line of
credit, you failed to disclose that you had drawn on that.
So this was all for yourself. This wasn't for the benefit
of President Trump. This was to benefit Michael Cohen. So
that's my question. Did you just get caught?
And you worked for this man for 10 years, Mr. Cohen. You
came in here with these -- with these -- he's a conman. He's a
cheat.
This is the very man that -- didn't you wiretap him
illegally? Did you not wiretap President Trump without his
knowledge?
Mr. Cohen. I did record Mr. Trump in a conversation, yes.
Mr. Norman. Is that lawyer-client privilege? Is that
something that an honest guy would do, an honest lawyer?
Mr. Cohen. I actually never thought that this was going to
be happening and that that recording even existed. I had
forgotten.
Mr. Norman. But you did it.
Mr. Cohen. Yes, I did.
Mr. Norman. Have you ever----
Mr. Cohen. I had a reason for doing it.
Mr. Norman. What was your reason?
Mr. Cohen. Because I knew he wasn't going to pay that
money. And David Pecker had already chewed me out on multiple
occasions regarding other moneys that he expended.
Mr. Norman. But this is a man that you trusted, you'd take
a bullet for, you secretly recorded.
Let me ask you this, Mr. Cohen. Have you done--have you
legally or illegally recorded other clients?
Mr. Cohen. I have recordings of people, yes.
Mr. Norman. Legally or illegally?
Mr. Cohen. I believe that they're legal.
Mr. Norman. Did you tell him?
Mr. Cohen. In New York State you don't have to do that.
Mr. Norman. So you did didn't tell him?
Mr. Cohen. No, I did not.
Mr. Norman. OK.
Mr. Cohen. Sometimes I also used the recordings for
contemporaneous notetaking instead of writing it down. I find
it easier.
Mr. Norman. If the shoe were reversed, would you like your
trusted lawyer recording you?
Mr. Cohen. I probably would not, no.
Mr. Norman. No, sir. It's untrustworthy. It's something
people just would not do.
Now, your bank loans that I just ran down, did you ever
default on any of those loans?
Mr. Cohen. No, sir.
Mr. Norman. So the bank didn't take any loss?
Mr. Cohen. No bank has -- I am not in default. I have never
filed a bankruptcy. The HELOC you're referring to, I replaced
that from a different HELOC, paid it off. There is--I owe no
banks any money.
Mr. Norman. How about your medallion taxicab. Did they--did
you have to sell that?
Mr. Cohen. I'm still -- well, the ones in Chicago, yes, I
do have to sell. However, New York, the answer is no, I don't.
And they are--the industry is going through a major, major
correction because of ride sharing. It's changed a lot of
things.
Mr. Norman. The value of it has.
Mr. Cohen. Yes, sir.
Mr. Norman. Right.
Has the -- so no bank -- would the banks make you a loan
again based on your record?
Mr. Cohen. Actually, they did. They did post the -- yes,
the bank actually redid, and they refinanced the entire
package----
Mr. Norman. Currently?
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. post this, yes.
Mr. Norman. OK. Have they never had to do loan loss reserve
for the projected losses?
Mr. Cohen. I don't know what they did. But it's still the
same amount. I didn't get the benefit of it, no, sir.
Mr. Norman. Most likely they did. I was on an audit
committee.
Mr. Cohen. They may have -- they may have done that, sir.
But that's for their own banking, not for me.
Mr. Norman. No, it's by law. They have to -- if they
suspect you of lying, which you admitted to, if they suspect
you of maybe not being able to make a loan payment, they have
to have a loan loss reserve that's 125 percent of what you --
if it's $20 million, they have to post in their account $20
million plus. So they get no interest on it.
You know who pays for that? The American public who deals
with that bank.
Mr. Cohen. Yes, but, sir, I'm not in default. And I'm
current on each and every one of those medallion loans. And
I've never owed any money to First Republic Bank. In fact, at
the time that I had the HELOC, I had more cash sitting in that
same bank than----
Mr. Norman. OK. Last question. I'm out of time.
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. than the HELOC and my mortgage
combined.
Mr. Norman. Have you ever been to Prague?
Mr. Cohen. I've never been to Prague.
Mr. Norman. Never have?
Mr. Cohen. I've never been to the Czech Republic.
Mr. Norman. Yield the balance of my time.
Chairman Cummings. Ms. Speier.
Ms. Speier. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And thank you, Mr. Cohen.
On page five of your statement, you say, and I quote, ``You
need to know that Mr. Trump's personal lawyers reviewed and
edited my statement to Congress about the timing of the Moscow
Tower negotiations.''
Who were those attorneys?
Mr. Cohen. Jay Sekulow -- from the White House?
Ms. Speier. Yes.
Mr. Cohen. Jay Sekulow. I believe Abbe Lowell as well.
Ms. Speier. And do you have a copy of your original
statement that you can provide to the committee?
Mr. Cohen. I can try to get that for you.
Ms. Speier. All right. If you would do that.
The letter of intent for the Moscow tower was in the fall
of 2015, correct?
Mr. Cohen. Correct.
Ms. Speier. Was there an expiration date on that letter of
intent?
Mr. Cohen. There was no expiration date.
Ms. Speier. So it could technically still be in effect
today?
Mr. Cohen. No, it's been terminated.
Ms. Speier. It has been terminated?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Speier. OK. Did Mr. Trump tell you to offer Vladimir
Putin a free penthouse?
Mr. Cohen. No, ma'am. That was----
Ms. Speier. So where did that come from?
Mr. Cohen. That was Felix Sater. It was a marketing stunt
that he spoke about.
Ms. Speier. So Felix Sater had suggested to you that Mr.
Trump offer a penthouse to Mr. Putin.
Mr. Cohen. Yes, because it would certainly drive up the
price per square foot. No different than in any condo where
they start listing celebrities that live in the property.
Ms. Speier. In 2016, did you travel to Europe?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Ms. Speier. Did you meet with persons associated with the
Moscow tower project?
Mr. Cohen. No.
Ms. Speier. It was for personal or----
Mr. Cohen. Personal. My daughter was studying at Queen Mary
in London.
Ms. Speier. So you did not meet with any Russians?
Mr. Cohen. No.
Ms. Speier. There is an elevator tape that has been
referenced as a catch and kill product. It was evidently of Mr.
Trump and a woman, presumably Mrs. Trump. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. Are we talking about in Moscow or the Trump
Tower elevator tape?
Ms. Speier. There's an elevator tape that went up for
auction----
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Ms. Speier [continuing]. ostensibly in 2016. Is that
correct?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, I've heard about this.
Ms. Speier. And who is on that tape?
Mr. Cohen. It's Mr. Trump with Melania.
Ms. Speier. And what happened in that tape?
Mr. Cohen. The story goes that he struck Melania while in
that elevator, because there's a camera inside, which I'm not
so sure -- actually, I'm certain it's not true. I've heard
about that tape for years. I've known four or five different
people, including folks from AMI, who have----
Ms. Speier. So -- but there was some tape that went up for
auction, correct?
Mr. Cohen. I don't believe that auction was real, and I
don't believe anybody -- I don't believe Mr. Trump ever struck
Mrs. Trump ever. I don't believe it.
Ms. Speier. And are you aware of anyone purchasing that
tape, then?
Mr. Cohen. I don't believe it was ever purchased.
Ms. Speier. So you never saw this tape?
Mr. Cohen. No, ma'am. And I know several people who went to
go try to purchase it for catch and kill purpose. It doesn't
exist. Mr. Trump would never--in my opinion, it's -- that's not
something that he----
Ms. Speier. Good to know. Good to know.
Is there a love child?
Mr. Cohen. There is not, to my -- to the best of my
knowledge.
Ms. Speier. So you would pay off someone to not report----
Mr. Cohen. It wasn't me, ma'am. It was AMI. It was David
Pecker.
Ms. Speier. So he paid off someone about a love child that
doesn't exist?
Mr. Cohen. Correct. It was about $15,000.
Ms. Speier. OK.
How many times did Mr. Trump ask you to threaten an
individual or entity on his behalf?
Mr. Cohen. Quite a few times.
Ms. Speier. Fifty times?
Mr. Cohen. More?
Ms. Speier. A hundred times?
Mr. Cohen. More.
Ms. Speier. Two hundred times?
Mr. Cohen. More.
Ms. Speier. Five hundred times?
Mr. Cohen. Probably, over the -- over the 10 years.
Ms. Speier. Over the 10 years, he asked you----
Mr. Cohen. And when you say threaten, I'm talking with
litigation or an argument with----
Ms. Speier. Intimidation?
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. a nasty reporter that has--is
writing an article.
Ms. Speier. What do you know about--let's go to your tapes.
You said there's probably 100 tapes?
Mr. Cohen. Voice recordings.
Ms. Speier. Voice recordings. And will you make them
available to the committee?
Mr. Cohen. If you would really like them.
Chairman Cummings. We would.
Ms. Speier. Did Mr. Trump----
Mr. Cohen. Don't you have to gavel that, sir?
Sorry.
Chairman Cummings. We would.
Ms. Speier. Did Mr. Trump tape any conversations?
Mr. Cohen. Not that I'm aware of, no.
Ms. Speier. Were you involved in the $25 million settlement
to Trump University?
Mr. Cohen. I had a role in that, yes.
Ms. Speier. Who paid the settlement?
Mr. Cohen. I believe it was Mr. Trump. I don't know the
answer to that.
Ms. Speier. You don't know the answer, but you were
involved in the----
Mr. Cohen. Yes, in a different aspect.
Ms. Speier. There's some reference to a businessman in
Kansas being involved in that. Are you familiar with that?
Mr. Cohen. I'm not familiar with that, no.
Ms. Speier. All right. Finally, in my 13 seconds left, what
do you want your children to know?
Mr. Cohen. That I am sorry for everything, and I am sorry
for the pain that I've caused them, and I wish I can go back in
time.
Ms. Speier. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman Cummings. The gentlelady's time has expired.
To the members of the committee, before we go to Ms.
Miller, for your--so that you can plan--properly plan, there's
a vote apparently coming up in about 10 to 20 minutes. And what
we will do is we will recess, and we will come back -- listen
up -- 30 minutes after the last vote begins. Got that? Not it
ends, 30 minutes after it begins. And we'll do that promptly.
All right?
All right. Mrs. Miller.
Mrs. Miller. I am very disappointed to have you in front of
this committee today. Quite frankly, this isn't the reason the
people of West Virginia sent me to Congress. I find this
hearing not in the best interest of the American people. This
is another political game with the sole purpose of discrediting
the President.
If it was not already obvious, there are members here with
the singular goal in Congress to impeach President Trump. To
achieve this goal, they will waste not only precious taxpayer
dollars, but also time in this committee and Congress as a
whole. In fact, they will go so far as to bring a convicted
felon in front of our committee.
We are supposed to take what you say, Mr. Cohen, at this
time about President Trump as the truth. But you're about to go
to prison for lying. How can we believe anything you say? The
answer is we can't.
This begs the question, why are those in the majority
holding this hearing?
I am appalled. We could be focused on actual issues that
are facing America, like border security, neonatal abstinence
syndrome, or improving our Nation's crumbling infrastructure.
Instead, the Democrats are trying to grasp at straws.
Let's talk about this witness. From his sentencing hearing
in the Southern District of New York, Judge Pauley stated,
``Mr. Cohen pled guilty to a veritable smorgasbord of
fraudulent conduct: Willful tax evasion, making false
statements to a financial institution, illegal campaign
contributions, and making false statements to Congress. Each of
the crimes involved deception, and each appears to have been
motivated by personal greed and ambition.''
This is who we have in front of us today in our committee,
someone who is about to be sent to prison for three years for
evading his taxes, deceiving a financial institution, lying to
Congress, among other counts.
One of the most appalling facts about this hearing is that
Mr. Cohen has used his experiences with President Trump, both
before and after he was elected, for his own greed and profit.
I'd like some yes-or-no answers.
Isn't it true you tried to sell a book about your time with
President Trump entitled ``Trump Revolution: From the Tower to
the White House, Understanding Donald J. Trump''?
Mr. Cohen. Yes. That happened early on when I was still
even part, I believe, of the RNC.
Mrs. Miller. And this book deal, which you had with Hatchet
Books, was worth around $500,000. Isn't that correct?
Mr. Cohen. No, more, ma'am.
Mrs. Miller. How much more?
Mr. Cohen. I think it was about 750.
Mrs. Miller. Wow.
Mr. Cohen. I did turn it down.
Mrs. Miller. Mr. Cohen, given that you continue to profit
publicly discussing your time with Mr. Trump, I worry that this
committee hearing the majority has given you will only serve as
a platform for you to continue to lie and sensationalize and
exaggerate wherever it suits you.
Do you plan to pursue another book deal about your
experiences?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mrs. Miller. I would presume this book would be a little
different than your latest pitch. But your new angle might
please some new fans. Anything to sell books.
Mr. Chairman, we've canceled hearings on child separation
and on other issues that are close to my heart for this media
circus. What a waste of time and money for a man who has gladly
exploited the name of the President to promote his own name and
fill his own pockets. It pains me that we are sitting here
adding another chapter to his book.
Thank you. And I yield the remainder of my time to Mr.
Jordan.
Mr. Jordan. I thank the gentlelady for yielding.
Earlier, Mr. Cohen, the gentlelady from California talked
about this tape.
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry, sir. I can't hear you.
Mr. Jordan. Earlier the gentlelady from California talked
about this tape, this elevator tape, that you said does not
exist.
Mr. Cohen. That's correct. I do not believe it exists.
Mr. Jordan. But is it also your testimony that the Trump
team was willing to pay to make sure a story about a
nonexistent tape never became public?
Mr. Cohen. No, sir, that's not what -- that's not what I
said.
Mr. Jordan. They were willing to stop a false tape?
Mr. Cohen. We looked--we learned that this tape was
potentially on the market and that it existed. And so what we
did is exactly what we did with all the other catch and kill.
We looked for it. And if, in fact, that it did exist, we would
have tried to stop it. That's what I would have done.
Mr. Jordan. It's a false tape. Is it not?
Mr. Cohen. But it's a false tape. I've never----
Mr. Jordan. Got it.
Mr. Cohen [continuing]. heard it. And I can assure you one
thing about Mr. Trump. Many things, he would never ever do
something like that. I don't see it.
Chairman Cummings. Ms. Kelly.
Ms. Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Cohen, I'd like to ask you more about the details of
the $130,000 payment you made to Stephanie Clifford, the adult
film actress known as Stormy Daniels, in order to purchase her
silence shortly before the 2016 election.
First, according to documents filed by Federal prosecutors
in New York, you created a shell company called Essential
Consultants, LLC. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. It's correct.
Ms. Kelly. And you created this company for the purpose of
making the payment to Ms. Clifford. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. Amongst other things, yes.
Ms. Kelly. You then used a home equity line of credit to
fund the account in the name of Essential Consultants, LLC. Is
that correct?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Ms. Kelly. You then wired $130,000 to the attorney
representing Ms. Clifford at that time and wrote in the memo
field for the wire the word, quote, ``retainer.'' Is that
correct?
Mr. Cohen. Correct.
Ms. Kelly. Can you tell us why you decided to use this
complicated process to make this payment?
Mr. Cohen. Well, starting an LLC is not a sophisticated
means. LLC, you call up a company, you pay for it, and they
open it for you.
And the reason that I used the home equity line of credit
as opposed to cash that I had in the same exact bank was I
didn't want my wife to know about it, because she handles all
of the banking. And I didn't want her coming to me and asking
me what was the $130,000 for.
And then I was going to be able to move money from one
account to the other and to pay it off, because I didn't want
to have to explain to her what that payment was about.
I sent it to the IOLA account, the interest on a lawyer's
account, to Keith Davidson in California, Ms. Daniel's
attorney. He would hold it in escrow until such time as I
received the executed NDA, nondisclosure agreement.
Ms. Kelly. Did Mr. Trump know you were going through this
process to hide the payment?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Ms. Kelly. Why not just use Mr. Trump's personal or company
bank account to make the payment? Why was the distraction so
important beside you not wanting your wife to know?
Mr. Cohen. What his concern was was that there would be a
check that has his very distinct signature onto it. And even
after she cashed the check, all you need to do is make a
photocopy of it and it's kind of proof positive on exactly what
took place.
So here the goal was to keep him far away from it as
possible.
Ms. Kelly. Can anyone corroborate what you have shared with
us?
Mr. Cohen. Absolutely.
Ms. Kelly. And that is?
Mr. Cohen. Keith Davidson, Allen Weisselberg, President
Trump.
Ms. Kelly. OK. Now, let's talk about the reimbursement.
According to Federal prosecutors, and I quote, ``After the
election, Cohen sought reimbursement for election-related
expenses, including the $130,000 payment.'' Prosecutors stated
that you, and I quote, ``presented an executive of the company
with a copy of a bank statement reflecting the $130,000 wire
transfer.'' Is that accurate?
Mr. Cohen. That is accurate.
Ms. Kelly. Do you still have a copy of that bank statement?
Mr. Cohen. Yes. It's actually made part of the exhibit.
Ms. Kelly. So you will provide it to the committee?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Kelly. According to Federal prosecutors, executives at
the company then, and I quote, ``agreed to reimburse Cohen by
adding $130,000 and $50,000, grossing up that amount to
$360,000 for tax purposes, and adding a $60,000 bonus such that
Cohen would be paid $420,000 in total. Executives of the
company decided to pay the $420,000 in monthly installments at
$35,000 over the course of a year.'' Is that accurate?
Mr. Cohen. That is accurate.
Ms. Kelly. What was the purpose of grossing up the amount,
essentially doubling what you had paid to Ms. Clifford and
others?
Mr. Cohen. Because if you pay $130,000 and you live in New
York where you have a 50 percent tax bracket, in order to get
you 130 back, you have to have 260. Otherwise, if he gave me
back 130, I would only -- then I'd be out 65,000.
Ms. Kelly. What was the purpose of spreading the
reimbursements to you over the 12 monthly installments?
Mr. Cohen. That was in order to hide what the payment was.
I obviously wanted the money in one shot. I would have
preferred it that way. But in order to be able to put it onto
the books, Allen Weisselberg made the decision that it should
be paid over the 12 months so that it would look like a
retainer.
Ms. Kelly. And did Mr. Trump know about this reimbursement
method?
Mr. Cohen. Oh, he knew about everything, yes.
Ms. Kelly. Well, thank you, Mr. Cohen.
So the President not only knew about the payments, he knew
and helped to hide the payments and the reimbursements to you.
Mr. Cohen. We discussed it. Everything had to go through
Mr. Trump, and it had to be approved by Mr. Trump.
Ms. Kelly. And now you're going to prison and he's----
Mr. Cohen. And I'm going to prison, yes, ma'am.
Ms. Kelly. I yield back.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Armstrong.
Mr. Armstrong. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Kelly. Yes, I yield my time.
Mr. Armstrong. Earlier you had said -- I'm assuming New
York a one-party consent state. One person can record the other
one without it being illegal?
Mr. Cohen. Correct.
Mr. Armstrong. But you also were a member of the New York
Bar?
Mr. Cohen. I was, yes.
Mr. Armstrong. How would you rate recording clients in the
ethical realm of being a lawyer?
Mr. Cohen. It's not illegal, and I do----
Mr. Armstrong. I'm not asking if it's illegal. I'm asking
if it's ethical.
Mr. Cohen. I don't know.
Mr. Armstrong. OK.
Mr. Cohen. That we'd have to leave to the judgment of the
Bar Association.
Mr. Armstrong. Well, I think every other lawyer in here
knows exactly where it is on the ethical standard.
When you said you had 100 tapes, were any of those tapes of
other clients?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Armstrong. And I think this is pretty amazing. I really
do. Did any of them waive privilege?
Mr. Cohen. No.
Mr. Armstrong. So five minutes ago, in the middle of our
hearing on oversight, you just immediately responded that you
would hand over tapes to this committee without any of your
previous clients' waiving privilege.
Mr. Cohen. I'm not the only one in possession of those
documents. Those documents are in the hands of all----
Mr. Armstrong. Whoever else is in charge of those documents
is not my concern. My concern is, I know lawyers that would go
to jail before they would violate attorney-client privilege.
And in a matter of a second, you just said, absolutely, I will
turn those over.
Mr. Cohen. I'm just trying to cooperate, sir.
Mr. Armstrong. At the expense of clients who have never
waived privilege.
Mr. Cohen. They're already in the hands, sir, of all of the
agencies. I didn't ask people----
Mr. Armstrong. What law enforcement determines to do with
something and what you determine to do with something, the
client privilege and attorney trust accounts are about the two
most sacred things that you can ever do in your entire career
as a lawyer.
Mr. Cohen. And, by the way, sir----
Mr. Armstrong. And in a matter of a second you completely--
--
Mr. Cohen. And by the way, sir, and the tape with Mr.
Trump, the reason that it is out there is because Rudy Giuliani
waived the privilege.
Mr. Armstrong. I'm not talking about Rudy Giuliani. I'm
talking about you. I don't know who's on those tapes. Only you
know who's on those tapes. There's 100 of them.
Mr. Cohen. The other one is also subject to an ongoing----
Mr. Armstrong. My point is, within a matter of a second,
one second, you took no, absolutely no calculation of your role
as those clients' counselor, the role that plays in privacy,
and in the role that plays in the solemn vow you took when you
passed the bar, when you signed onto the bar, until recently
were a member of the bar, and you just immediately said, if it
helps me out today in front of TV, yes, absolutely, Mr.
Chairman, you can have that. And that just goes into what we're
going to talk about next briefly.
We talk about these indictments on tax fraud and bank fraud
as if they are isolated incidents. But they're not isolated
incidents of bad judgment. These were intricate, elaborate lies
that created--that needed to be held with constant--I mean,
just constant deceptions of banks, businesses, associates,
accountants, potentially your family.
You received over 2.4 million in personal loans from taxi
company--taxi medallion company one. And those were loan
payments for a business loan, correct.
Mr. Cohen. No, sir.
Mr. Armstrong. You weren't receiving----
Mr. Cohen. Those----
Mr. Armstrong. OK. Go ahead.
Mr. Cohen. Those were payments that were made by the
management company that was operating the medallions.
Mr. Armstrong. To you.
Mr. Cohen. To me.
Mr. Armstrong. So and you -- those were deposited into your
personal account or, in some instances, your wife's account.
Mr. Cohen. It was deposited into the joint checking account
of my wife and I that's located at the base of the building
that we reside in.
Mr. Armstrong. And were those disclosed on your tax
returns?
Mr. Cohen. They are not--they were not disclosed on my tax
returns.
Mr. Armstrong. And, in fact, when your accountant talked to
you about those deposits, you told him you wouldn't pay for a
memo that you didn't ask to be done?
Mr. Cohen. That's inaccurate.
Mr. Armstrong. So the sentencing court in New York has it
wrong?
Mr. Cohen. OK. I don't know what Mr. Getzel wrote, my
accountant. There are a series of issues regarding his memo,
anyway, including the fact that he's almost directed me in an
earlier memo to commit fraud.
But putting all that aside with Jeff Getzel, the answer to
that is I pled guilty. All right? And I made my mistake, and
I'm going, as I've said 100 times now.
I'm not so sure why this singular attack on my taxes. If
you want to look at them, I'm more than happy to show them to
you. But every single word that's been written about me----
Mr. Armstrong. If the chairman will give me 20 minutes,
I've got plenty of other things to talk about.
Mr. Cohen. Every single word that's written about me is not
100 percent accurate.
Mr. Armstrong. All right. I'm going to reclaim my time.
Mr. Cohen. And that's exactly why, when it comes to the
credibility, why I asked Mr. Davis and Mr. Monaco to please
let's figure out how to----
Mr. Armstrong. But that's my point with the credibility.
These aren't isolated--there are not isolated incidents of
attack. These were constant deceptions, whether it's rolling
over a $20 million line of credit to a $14 million credit, you
went through great lengths to conceal that from one bank while
at the same time you are reducing your net income to another
bank.
These aren't things that happened on January 1 of 1918,
January 1 of 1917, January 1 of 1915. These are things that
were constantly involved on a--my question is, was it
exhausting keeping track of all the lies that you were telling
all these people?
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired.
You may----
Mr. Cohen. I don't have an answer for him.
Chairman Cummings. Very well.
Mr. DeSaulnier.
Mr. Cohen. Thank you for continuing the narrative.
Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Cohen. Good luck on your road to redemption.
Mr. Cohen. Thank you. It's going to be a long way.
Mr. DeSaulnier. Well, the opposite of that is perdition, as
I remember, and that's particularly hard on your children. So I
wish you well and I wish your family well.
Mr. Cohen, as you've sort of described your road to here,
Mr. Cooper asked you when the moment was, or moments, when you
decided you needed to change. It strikes me there is a
transition that you have illuminated here. Your period of time,
the 10 years working for somebody who you admired as a
developer. And then when Charlottesville happened and, quite
frankly, when the special counsel called you in, obviously, was
a key part of it, or you wouldn't be here.
But the in-between part I find really interesting and
troubling, at least in terms of appearances and confidence that
the American people would have in this institution and
democracy, quite frankly.
So during that period of time, I want to ask you about two
specific, if we have enough time.
First, the Trump Tower. So you were negotiating for this.
As you said, it was to be the tallest building in Europe. In
your guilty plea with the special counsel, you quote, say, it
quotes, ``Cohen asked Individual 1" -- is that President Trump?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. DeSaulnier. OK. ``--about the possibility of President
Trump traveling to Russia in connection with the Moscow project
and asked a senior campaign official about potential business
travel to Russia.''
When did this conversation happen? Do you recall?
Mr. Cohen. Early on in the campaign.
Mr. DeSaulnier. And who was the campaign official?
Mr. Cohen. Corey Lewandowski.
Mr. DeSaulnier. What did you discuss in this meeting?
Mr. Cohen. The possibility of which dates that Mr. Trump
would have availability if, in fact, that we were going to go
over to Russia to take a look at the project. Unfortunately --
I'm sorry, sir?
Mr. DeSaulnier. So go ahead. Sorry.
Mr. Cohen. Unfortunately, it never came to fruition because
we were never successful in getting the first prong of what I
needed, which was ownership or control over a piece of
property. And until such time, there was no reason to come up
with a date.
But when I first received the information request to go to
Russia what I decided to do is I spoke to Mr. Trump about it.
He told me to speak to Corey and see what dates might be
available if I got the information I needed.
Mr. DeSaulnier. So it stopped because of appearances, or
did it stop because the parties decided not to pursue it?
Mr. Cohen. I'm so sorry, I don't understand your question.
Mr. DeSaulnier. So why did the pursuit of the Trump Tower
that Mr. Trump has now said, of course, he pursued it, because
he thought he might be going back into the development
business, why was the reason that the deal stopped?
Mr. Cohen. Because he won the Presidency.
Mr. DeSaulnier. OK. So in that interim period of time, you
must admit it looks troubling that now that we know what
foreign influence was attempting to do, whether there was
collusion or not, it certainly appears troubling that you were
-- Mr. Trump was part of this negotiation at the same time,
what we know, perhaps separately, that the Russians were
engaged in our election.
Mr. Cohen. Well, I don't know about them being engaged in
the election. I can only talk for myself. Here I would say to
Mr. Trump, in response to his question, ``What's going on with
Russia?'' is I'm still waiting for documents. And then that
night at a rally, he would turn around and do his battle cry of
no Russia, no collusion, no involvement, witch hunt.
Mr. DeSaulnier. OK. On a separate subject but somewhat
related, on January 17 of this year The Wall Street Journal
published a story stating that your hired John Gauger, the
owner of a consulting company who works for Liberty University
in Virginia, to rig at least two online polls related to Donald
Trump.
Did you hire him?
Mr. Cohen. Those were back in, I believe, 2015?
Mr. DeSaulnier. 2014.
Mr. Cohen. 2014.
Mr. DeSaulnier. 2014. So you did hire him?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, I spoke with Mr. Gauger about manipulating
these online polls.
Mr. DeSaulnier. And did he use bots to manipulate the poll?
Mr. Cohen. He used algorithms. And if that includes bots,
then the answer is yes.
Mr. DeSaulnier. Yes, that's accurate.
Did the President have any involvement?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. DeSaulnier. In directing you to do this?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. DeSaulnier. What were the results of the poll?
Mr. Cohen. Exactly where we wanted them to be. In the CNBC
poll we came in at No. 9. And the Drudge Report, he was top of
the Drudge Report as well, poll.
Mr. DeSaulnier. OK.
Mr. Cohen. Please understand also, the CNBC poll, it was
called The Contenders, and it was the top 250 people that they
named. And it was supposed to be the top ten most influential
people.
Mr. DeSaulnier. Let me just finish with earlier today you
directed a comment to my colleagues, and I'm quoting, so
correct me if I got this wrong. You said: The more people who
follow Mr. Trump, the more people will be where I am.
Is it your expectation that people in the administration
will end up where you are?
Mr. Cohen. Sadly, if they follow blindly, like I have, I
think the answer is yes.
Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you.
Mr. Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Steube.
Mr. Steube. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
When I ran for Congress I talked about how Washington was
broken, but I certainly did not expect the level of political
gamesmanship, partisanship, and sheer stagnation of policies
that would improve the lives of Americans that I'm witnessing
today.
It is terribly disappointing to me that this committee and
its chairman chose to spend our time in questioning an
individual that has zero probative value and zero credibility
instead of spending our limited time focusing on improving the
lives of Americans, creating jobs, or streamlining the
functioning of our Federal Government.
Yet here we are taking testimony from a convicted liar, and
not someone who has just lied to his clients or family or
friends, but testimony from an individual who deliberately and
premeditatedly lied to this body. He lied to Congress through
false statements and written statements. He lied to Congress
through his testimony. He then amplified his false statements
by releasing and repeating his lies to the public, including
the other potential witnesses.
Yet now we on this committee and the American people are
expected to believe Mr. Cohen's testimony. I don't know a juror
in America that would believe anything Mr. Cohen says given his
past actions and lies.
Mr. Cohen, you stood before multiple congressional
committees before today and raised your right hand and swore an
oath to be honest. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. That is correct.
Mr. Steube. And you lied to those congressional committees.
Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. Previously?
Mr. Steube. Correct.
Mr. Cohen. Yes, sir.
Mr. Steube. You stated that Trump never directed you to lie
to Congress. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Mr. Steube. Therefore, you lied to Congress on your own
accord and then admitted to lying to Congress, correct?
Mr. Cohen. I have already stated my piece on that. I knew
what he wanted me to do. I was staying on party line.
Mr. Steube. But he never directed you to lie to Congress?
Mr. Cohen. He did not use those words, no.
Mr. Steube. In your evidence that you provided this
committee a mere 2 hours before the hearing started were
payments paid made to you by Mr. Trump, correct?
Mr. Cohen. Amongst other things, yes.
Mr. Steube. Yet other than your testimony here today
there's absolutely no proof that those specific payments were
for those specific purposes. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. It's my testimony that the check that I produced
as part of this testimony, the $35,000 and then the second
check that's signed by Allen Weisselberg and Don Trump, Jr.,
were 2 checks out of the 11 that were meant for the
reimbursement of the hush money payment to Stormy Daniels.
Mr. Steube. So in your testimony, on page 13, you claim,
and I quote, ``Mr. Trump directed me to use my own personal
funds from a home equity line of credit to avoid any money
being tracked back to him that could negatively impact his
campaign.'' Do you have any proof of this direction?
Mr. Cohen. Just the payment, sir.
Mr. Steube. So no email?
Mr. Cohen. Mr. Trump doesn't have email.
Mr. Steube. So no recording?
Mr. Cohen. I do not have recordings, no.
Mr. Steube. No text message?
Mr. Cohen. Mr. Trump doesn't text message.
Mr. Steube. So no direction other than your testimony today
that that's what the payment was for?
Mr. Cohen. And the fact that I paid on his behalf, at his
direction, the money to Keith Davidson's IOLA account. You're
right, there's no other documentation I have.
Mr. Steube. So nothing that you produced as part of your
exhibits proved that President Trump directed you in any way to
make that payment?
Mr. Cohen. I don't even know how to answer that, sir.
Mr. Steube. Well, it's pretty simple. There's nothing in
the evidence that shows, in the exhibits that you provided
today, that show that Trump directed you to make those
payments.
Mr. Cohen. Other than the nondisclosure agreement that has
been seized by government authorities and is widely shown. I
don't believe there's anybody out there that believes that I
just decided to pay $130,000 on his behalf.
Mr. Steube. Well, you were his attorney for over 10 years.
Mr. Cohen. That doesn't mean that I'd pay $130,00.
Mr. Steube. Well, it doesn't also mean that he wasn't
paying you for representation of counsel.
Mr. Cohen. OK.
Mr. Steube. How did President Trump even know you had a
HELOC?
Mr. Cohen. I'm so sorry, sir?
Mr. Steube. How did President Trump even know had you a
HELOC?
Mr. Cohen. Because we discussed it. Because I told him the
same thing, that I didn't want my wife to find out about it.
And one additional. Rudy Giuliani himself came out and
expressed that Mr. Trump reimbursed me for the money that was
spent to pay Stormy Daniels.
Mr. Steube. And did you tell Chris Cuomo that you had no
access to Mr. Trump during October and November 2016?
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry, I don't know what you're referring
to.
Mr. Steube. Your interview with Chris Cuomo.
Mr. Cohen. I would need to see the document.
Mr. Steube. Did you also tell Chris Cuomo that you made
these payments without telling Mr. Trump because you wanted to
protect Mr. Trump?
Mr. Cohen. And I was protecting Mr. Trump.
Mr. Steube. And you told him that you made these payments
without telling him?
Mr. Cohen. When I said that--if that's what I said to Chris
Cuomo, yes, that was my line.
Mr. Steube. And if this unsupported claim was true then it
would be part of an ongoing investigation as evidence of a
crime and the Department of Justice would not let you discuss
it during your testimony here today. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. I don't know.
Chairman Cummings. The gentleman's time has expired.
Did you answer?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, I did want to say one last thing.
Not only did I lie to the American people, I lied to the
First Lady, when the President called me and I was sitting in a
car with a friend of mine and he had me speak to her and
explain to the First Lady.
So the answer is you're not accurate, and I don't feel good
about any of this, and this was not my intention.
Sorry.
Chairman Cummings. Mrs. Lawrence.
Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I just want to put on the record, as being a Black American
and having endured the public comments of racism from the
sitting President, as being a Black person, I can only imagine
what's being said in private. And to prop up one member of our
entire race of Black people and say that that nullifies that is
totally insulting. And in this environment of expecting a
President to be inclusive and to look at his administration
speaks volumes.
So I have some questions. I want to talk to you about this
intimidation of witness. Mr. Cohen, you were initially
scheduled to testify before the House Oversight Committee on
February the 7th, but your legal team delayed your testimony,
quoting ongoing threats against your family from the President
and attorney Giuliani. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, ma'am.
Mrs. Lawrence. And then, on November 29, after you admitted
that the President's negotiations over a real estate project in
Russia continued well through the summer before the 2016
election, President Trump called you, quote, ``a weak person''
and accused you of lying.
And then, on December 16, 2018, after you disclosed that it
was the President who directed you to arrange hush money
payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal to conceal his
extramarital affairs, he called you, the President of the
United States, a rat.
Mr. Cohen, why do you feel or believe that the President is
repeatedly attacking you? You are stating that you feel
intimidated, asking us to protect you, following your
cooperation with law enforcement.
Mr. Cohen. When you have access to 60-plus million people
that follow you on social media and you have the ability within
which to spark some action by individuals that follow him, and
from his own words that he can walk down Fifth Avenue, shoot
someone, and get away with it, it's never comfortable when the
President of the United States----
Mrs. Lawrence. What do you think he can do to you?
Mr. Cohen. A lot. And it is not just him. It's those people
that follow him and his rhetoric.
Mrs. Lawrence. What is a lot?
Mr. Cohen. I don't know. I don't walk with my wife if we go
to a restaurant or we go somewhere, I don't walk with my
children, I make them go before me, because I have fear. And it
is the same fear that I had before when he initially decided to
drop that tweet in my cell phone.
I receive some, and I'm sure you'll understand, I receive
some tweets, I receive some Facebook Messenger, all sorts of
social media attacks upon me, whether it's to private direct
message, that I have had to turn over to Secret Service,
because they are the most vile, disgusting statements that
anyone can ever receive. And when it starts to affect your
children, that's when it really affects you.
Mrs. Lawrence. On January 20, 2019, Mr. Giuliani called
your father-in-law, quote, ``a criminal'' and said that he may
have ties to organized crime.
Mr. Cohen, do you believe that the President and Mr.
Giuliani publicly targeted your father-in-law as an effort to
intimidate you? Can you elaborate, why is your father-in-law
being pulled into this?
Mr. Cohen. I don't know the answer to that. My father-in-
law was in the clothing business, came to this country because
in 1972-73 the expulsion of Jews from the Ukraine. He came here
to this country. He worked hard, and he is now enjoying his
retirement.
Never in my life did I think that Mr. Trump would do
something so disgraceful, and he is attacking him because he
knows I care about my family. And to hurt me, he is trying to
hurt them.
Interestingly enough, my father-in-law's biggest
investments happen to be in a Trump property. So it just
doesn't make any sense to me.
Mrs. Lawrence. I want to be clear, any efforts to prevent a
witness from testifying in front of Congress is against the
law. I want to be real clear about that. And as the chairman
has said, retaliating against witnesses and threatening their
family and members is a textbook mob tactic that does not
benefit the President of the United States or this country.
And I want to be on the record, this hearing is not about
discrediting the President. It is about the oath of office that
we take as Members of Congress to have checks and balances and
to meet the laws and the policies of this country to serve.
Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Roy.
Mr. Roy. Mr. Cohen, I, too, want to offer my heartfelt
thoughts for your family and what they're going through. I know
it's tough. And for your time here today. I know it's tough for
you to stand here in front of this committee.
The chairman suggested you volunteered to come here. You
testified that you were asked to come here. Is it correct you
were asked to come here, yes or no?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Roy. The combined total of the crimes for which you
were sentenced would bring a maximum of 70 years, yes or no?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Roy. Yet you are going to prison for three years, yes
or no?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Roy. The prosecutors of the Southern District of New
York say: To secure loans, Cohen falsely understated the amount
of debt he was carrying and omitted information from his
personal financial statements to induce a bank to lend on
incomplete information. You told my colleague here today that
you did not committee bank fraud.
Not parsing different statutes, which I understand could be
only for clarify, are you or are you not guilty of making false
statements to a financial institution, yes or no?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, I pled guilty.
Mr. Roy. You said clearly to Mr. Cloud and Mr. Jordan that
the Southern District of New York lawyers were being untruthful
in characterizing your desire to work in the administration. Do
you say again that the lawyers of the Southern District of New
York are being untruthful in making that characterization, yes
or no?
Mr. Cohen. I'm saying that's not accurate.
Mr. Roy. OK. So you're saying they're being untruthful.
Mr. Cohen. I'm not using the word untruthful, that's yours.
I'm saying that that's not accurate. I did not want a role or a
title in the administration.
Mr. Roy. I'm sure the lawyers----
Mr. Cohen. I got the title that I wanted.
Mr. Roy. I'm sure the lawyers at the SDNY appreciate that
distinction.
Question, you testified today you have never been to Prague
and have never been to the Czech Republic. Do you stand behind
that statement?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, I do.
Mr. Roy. I offer into the record an article in known
conservative news magazine Mother Jones by David Corn in which
he says he reviewed his notes from a phone call with Mr. Cohen,
and Mr. Cohen said, quote, ``I haven't been to Prague in 14
years. I was in Prague for one afternoon 14 years ago,'' end
quote.
Question, you, as my friend Mr. Armstrong rightly inquired,
offered to the committee taped information involving clients
with the bat of an eye. Do you stand behind that, yes or no?
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry, I don't understand. You said it so
fast.
Mr. Roy. You, as my friend Mr. Armstrong rightly inquired,
offered to this committee taped information involving your
clients with the bat of an eye. Do you stand behind that offer?
Mr. Cohen. If the chairman asks me, I'll take it under
advisement now, and it is not a problem in terms of attorney-
client privilege, yes, I will turn it over.
Mr. Roy. You, as my friend Mr. Meadows pointed out, misled
this committee even today in a written submission that
contradicted your testimony. You have suggested you are going
to review that. Are you going to review it in our next break to
correct the record, yes or no?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Roy. Question, you helped out the President's campaign
or were involved in the campaign as a representative, as a
spokesman, even in your words today. It was your idea for the
campaign dating back to 2011. Is that accurate, yes or no?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Roy. 2011 is a year that sticks in my head, for it's
the year my daughter was born, and it was the year I was
diagnosed with cancer. I was not then pushing for Donald Trump
to be President. I was fighting cancer.
Even in 2016, I was publicly backing a certain Republican
from Texas. Some might guess who it was. But you, you were all
in. And you either wanted Donald Trump to be your President
because it would be good for the country or you did it for your
own personal advancement or both. Sort of the two options.
Real Americans in my district and across the country wanted
the President to be President not in any way because he's
perfect, but rather because they are sick and tired of this
hellhole. They supported the President because they are sick
and tired of the games that we are seeing here today. They are
sick and tired of politicians who refuse to secure the border,
balance our budget, restore healthcare freedom, and then get
the hell out of their way so they can lead their life. They are
mystified that we amass about $100 million of debt per hour,
which means we have blown through $300, $400, $450 million
during this charade in amassing debt--$450 million. They're
sick and tired of a Democrat Party that willfully ignores
cartel-driven asylum crisis on our border that endangers
American citizens and the migrants who seek to come here.
Just yesterday in Eagle Pass, Texas, Border Patrol agents
arrested an MS-13 gang member. In McAllen, Texas, Federal
authorities are offering a reward for a man tied to Mexico's
Gulf Cartel for his alleged roles in various murders,
kidnappings, and home invasions in south Texas. A mass Honduran
migrant rush at the Texas border forced brief closure of the
Laredo port.
This is this week. This is what we're ignoring. This is not
what we are doing for the American people while we engage in
this charade. This is not what the American people send us here
to do. This is an embarrassment for our country.
I talked to my beautiful wife back in Dripping Springs,
Texas, just before the hearing. I said, ``Don't bother
watching.'' She said, as I roughly expected, ``Don't worry, I
won't. I have more important things to do.'' And she, like the
rest of the American people, have a hell of a lot more
important things to do than to watch this. I said, ``Amen,
darling.''
I can't help but think that that is what the majority of
the American people are thinking while watching this
unbelievable circus.
I yield back.
Chairman Cummings. Ms. Plaskett.
Ms. Plaskett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I have got a lot to do, as well. I have got houses and
schools to help rebuild in the Virgin Islands, expansion of
voting rights, educational opportunities, criminal justice
reform. Thank God the Democratic majority can walk and chew gum
at the same time. So we're here with you right now.
Mr. Cohen, you learned well in the 10 years that you worked
with Donald Trump. What was your position with the GOP in the
-- up to eight months ago?
Mr. Cohen. I was vice chair of the RNC Finance Committee.
Ms. Plaskett. You were vice chair of finance of the
Republican National Committee, right?
Mr. Cohen. Correct.
Ms. Plaskett. OK.
Mr. Cohen. I do want to say, I was a Democrat until Steve
Wynn found out I was a Democrat and made me switch parties.
Ms. Plaskett. That would be the smart thing to do.
Mr. Cohen. He said it wasn't right for a Democrat to be the
vice chair.
Ms. Plaskett. Good. Let's get to--I only have a little bit
of time.
On behalf of the many Members here who have expressed to
your family our apologies to your family, but I want to
apologize for the inappropriate comments and tweets that have
been made by other Members of this body. And as a former
prosecutor and as former counsel on House Ethics, I think that
at the very least there should be a referral to the Ethics
Committee of witness intimidation or tampering under U.S.C.
1512 of my colleague Matt Gaetz, and it may be possibly him
being referred for a criminal prosecution. So I want to put
that on the record.
On May 2, 2018, the President's personal attorney, Rudy
Giuliani, who was his personal attorney like you, appeared on
FOX News and referred to the President's reimbursement to you
for the $130,000 payment for Stephanie Clifford as part of a
retainer.
And on May 3, 2018, one day after Mr. Giuliani's
appearance, the President tweeted, and I quote, ``Mr. Cohen, an
attorney, received a monthly retainer not from the campaign and
having nothing to do with the campaign, from which he entered
into through reimbursement a private contract between two
parties known as a nondisclosure agreement or NDA.''
The Office of Government Ethics, which is the agency which
the Federal Government with responsibility over what the
President needs to report publicly about his assets, was
puzzled by this, it seems, and they were skeptical that a
retainer was actually in place and asked to see the retainer
agreement on call of May 8 with the President.
The President's personal counsel, Sheri Dillon, replied
that she would, and I quote, ``not permit OGE staff to read the
agreement because it is privileged.'' Ms. Dillon would not even
let OGE staff come to her office to review the retainer
agreement.
Mr. Cohen, in a court filing made in August of last year
Federal prosecutors stated that, quote, ``In truth and in fact,
there was no such retainer agreement.'' Mr. Cohen, did you ever
have a retainer agreement in place with the President for the
payment to Ms. Clifford?
Mr. Cohen. No.
Ms. Plaskett. So was Mr. Giuliani's statement inaccurate?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Ms. Plaskett. Was Ms. Dillon's statement about the retainer
agreement inaccurate?
Mr. Cohen. I'm sorry, Ms. Dillon's statement is?
Ms. Plaskett. About the retainer agreement, is it
inaccurate?
Mr. Cohen. And her statement is what?
Ms. Plaskett. And her statement to them was, quote, ``not
to permit OGE staff to read the agreement because it is
privileged.''
Mr. Cohen. There was no agreement.
Ms. Plaskett. And is the President's tweet or his statement
accurate?
Mr. Cohen. And I'm sorry, one more time?
Ms. Plaskett. And his statement was, Mr. Cohen, an
attorney, received a monthly retainer not from the campaign and
having nothing to do with the campaign from which he entered
into through a reimbursement.
Mr. Cohen. That's not accurate.
Ms. Plaskett. You have mentioned some individuals to my
colleague from New York, Mr. Connolly, and also in your
testimony about Mr. Weisselberg and other individuals, Ms.
Rhona. Who are those individuals? Are they with The Trump
Organization?
Mr. Cohen. They are.
Ms. Plaskett. Are there other people that we should be
meeting with?
Mr. Cohen. So Allen Weisselberg is the chief financial
officer in The Trump Organization.
Ms. Plaskett. You've got to quickly give us as many names
as we can so we can get to them.
Mr. Cohen. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Plaskett. Is Ms. Rhona, what is Ms. Rhona's----
Mr. Cohen. Rhona Graff is the--Mr. Trump's executive
assistant.
Ms. Plaskett. And would she be able to corroborate many of
the statements that you have made here?
Mr. Cohen. Yes. She was--her office is directly next to
his, and she's involved in a lot that went on.
Ms. Plaskett. OK. Mr. Cohen, when the President's lawyers
were having the discussions with the Office of Government
Ethics in 2018 did they reach out to you to talk with you about
these payments?
Mr. Cohen. No, ma'am.
Ms. Plaskett. And what did you--did you share anything with
them otherwise in any other conversation?
Mr. Cohen. I do not recall, no.
Ms. Plaskett. Can the committee obtain more information
about these facts by obtaining testimony and documents from the
White House, The Trump Organization, and the President's
attorneys?
Mr. Cohen. I believe so.
Ms. Plaskett. Mr. Chair, I think that those are the
individuals that we should be speaking with. And I yield back
at this time.
Chairman Cummings. The committee will now stand in recess
again. We will come back -- listen up -- 35 minutes, 35 minutes
after the last vote begins.
So for Mr. Cohen, Mr. Cohen, we are talking about probably
about an hour or so.
Mr. Cohen. Thank you so much.
[Recess.]
Chairman Cummings. Ladies and gentlemen, we will come to
order.
Mr. Cohen, I want to finalize this issue relating to your
truth in testimony form. The form requires you to list your
contracts or payments originating from a foreign government,
not from all foreign entities.
We said we would give you a chance to consult with your
attorneys. Have you done that, and do you have any additional
information?
Mr. Cohen. So my four attorneys continue to believe, as
they did before, that the language of the truth in testimony
form, which I was given and signed just right before this
hearing and which requires disclosure of any contracts or
payments from foreign governments in the last two years, did
not apply to my work for BTA Bank, which is a Kazakh-owned
entity.
They advised that had entities been intended for disclosure
that word would have been in the disclosure definition.
However, if the committee's counsel has a different view, that
I should disclose my contract with BTA Bank, we'd be willing to
do that.
Chairman Cummings. All right. Now----
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Cummings. Let me finish.
Mr. Meadows. Sure.
Chairman Cummings. I want to understand clearly. You sought
the advice of your counsel. Is that right?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Chairman Cummings. And your counsel advised you to say what
you just said. Is that right?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Chairman Cummings. And you know that to be the truth. Is
that right?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, sir.
Chairman Cummings. I will yield to the gentleman from North
Carolina.
Mr. Meadows. I thank the chairman for his courtesy.
Mr. Chairman, instead of making points of order and going
back and forth on this, perhaps a way to solve this is for the
chairman to request Mr. Cohen give to this committee all the
foreign payments that he has received over the last two years,
whether they're an entity or a government. Because we have a
strong belief, Mr. Chairman, there's over $900,000 that came
from the Government of Kazakhstan on behalf of Mr. Cohen, and
it is either the truth, the whole truth, or nothing but the
truth.
And the rules, Mr. Chairman, really look at foreign
payments that come from or with foreign governments. And the
bank he is talking about is owned 81 percent by the Kazakhstan
Government.
Chairman Cummings. Reclaiming my time, reclaiming my time,
and then we're going to move on.
What I will take -- first of all, let me be clear, I said
to Mr. Cohen that if he came in here and lied I would nail him
to the cross.
Didn't I, did I tell you that?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, you did more than once.
Chairman Cummings. All right. So if there's any ambiguity I
want that to be cleared up.
I have no problem in working with you to make sure that's
straightened out, because I don't want it to be a thing where
he thinks one thing, we think one thing. And we can clear that
up, all right?
All right. We have a number of members that have been
waiting.
Mr. Jordan. But just on that subject -- thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. I yield.
Mr. Jordan. I don't think we should limit to just it the
BTA Bank which has the affiliation with Kazakhstan. I think we
should also look at Korea Aerospace Industries, one of his
other clients, and any other client that's foreign that may
have some connection to that respective country's government. I
hope him and his attorneys look at all those and we get the
form exactly right as Mr. Meadows wants.
Chairman Cummings. Reclaiming my time. We will take that
certainly under advisement. I am a man of my word. We will do--
we will work with you and see what we can do to come up with
that. I don't think that it's an unreasonable request.
Mr. Khanna. Hello? Mr. Khanna.
Mr. Khanna. Yes.
Mr. Cohen, I want to focus my questions on the smoking gun
document you have provided this committee. This document is
compelling evidence of Federal and State crimes, including
financial fraud.
You provided this committee with a check from President
Donald J. Trump's revocable trust account, which is marked as
exhibit 5B. It is a check for $35,000, and it is dated March
17, 2017, after the President took office. It is right now on
the screen. Do you see it, sir?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, sir.
Mr. Khanna. To be clear, the Trump revocable trust is the
trust the President set up to hold his assets after he became
President. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. I believe so.
Mr. Khanna. Do you know why you were paid from the trust as
opposed to the President's personal account?
Mr. Cohen. I don't know the answer to that.
Mr. Khanna. Did you think it was odd that he paid you once
from his personal account and then he's paying you through the
scheme of a trust?
Mr. Cohen. I'll be honest, I was just happy to get the
check.
Mr. Khanna. Today you testified that the check was signed
by Donald Trump, Jr., and The Trump Organization CFO, Allen
Weisselberg. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. That is correct.
Mr. Khanna. According to the criminal charges against you,
you sent monthly invoices containing false information to an
individual identified as executive one. Weisselberg is
Executive 1, correct?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Khanna. The criminal charge against you then states
that Executive 1 forwarded your invoice to someone referred to
as Executive 2. Presumably Donald Trump, Jr., who is signing
this check, is Executive 2, correct?
Mr. Cohen. I believe so.
Mr. Khanna. As Federal prosecutors laid out in their
criminal charges, payments like this check resulted in numerous
false statements in the books and records of The Trump
Organization. And it's important for the American public to
understand there's nothing to do with collusion, this is
financial fraud, garden variety financial fraud. It was
disguised as a payment for legal services to you, but this was
not a payment for legal services, was it, Mr. Cohen?
Mr. Cohen. No, sir.
Mr. Khanna. It could give rise to serious State and Federal
criminal liability if a corporation is cooking its books.
Based on your testimony today, Donald Trump, Jr., and Allen
Weisselberg directed this payment to you and approved this
payment. Is that right?
Mr. Cohen. Mr. Trump initially acknowledged the obligation,
the debt. Myself and Allen Weisselberg went back to his office,
and I was instructed by Allen at the time that we were going to
do this over 12 installments. And what he decided to do then
was to have me send an invoice, in which case they can have a
check cut. And then, yes, the answer would be yes to your
followup.
Mr. Khanna. And Donald Trump, Jr., obviously signed off on
this?
Mr. Cohen. Yes. Well, it would either be Eric Trump, Donald
Trump, Jr., and/or Allen Weisselberg, but always Allen
Weisselberg on the check.
Mr. Khanna. And you think Executive 2 is Donald Trump, Jr.?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Khanna. They knew that this payment was false and
illegal, correct?
Mr. Cohen. I can't make that conclusion.
Mr. Khanna. You told Representative Kelly that the
President was aware of this scheme. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Mr. Khanna. I just want the American public to understand
the explosive nature of your testimony and this document. Are
you telling us, Mr. Cohen, that the President directed
transpection in conspiracy with Allen Weisselberg and his son,
Donald Trump, Jr., as part of a civil -- criminal -- as part of
a criminal conspiracy of financial fraud? Is that your
testimony today?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Khanna. And do you know if this criminal financial
scheme that the President, Allen Weisselberg, and Donald Trump,
Jr., are involved in is being investigated by the Southern
District of New York?
Mr. Cohen. I'd rather not discuss that question because it
could be part of an investigation that's currently ongoing.
Mr. Khanna. But I just want the American public to
understand that solely apart from Bob Mueller's investigation
there is garden variety financial fraud, and your allegation
and the explosive smoking gun document suggests that the
President, his son, and his CFO may be involved in a criminal
conspiracy. And isn't it true, Mr. Cohen, that this criminal
conspiracy that involves four people, that there's only one
person so far who has suffered the repercussions, and that's
why you're in jail?
Mr. Cohen. Will be going to jail, yes.
Mr. Khanna. There are three other people, though, who were
equally involved in this conspiracy.
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Mr. Khanna. Is that true?
Mr. Cohen. It is true.
Mr. Khanna. Thank you, Mr. Cohen.
I yield back my time.
Chairman Cummings. Thank you very much.
Mr. Gomez.
Mr. Gomez. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Cohen, I'm going to tackle the President's tax returns.
During the 2016 campaign you said you personally wouldn't,
quote, ``allow him to release those returns until the audits
are over,'' unquote.
For the record, nothing prevents individuals from sharing
their own tax returns even while under audit by the IRS. Mr.
Cohen, do you know whether President Trump's tax returns were
really under audit by the IRS in 2016?
Mr. Cohen. I don't know the answer. I asked for a copy of
the audit so that I could use it in terms of my statements to
the press, and I was never able to obtain one.
Mr. Gomez. OK. So do you have any inside knowledge about
what was in the President's tax returns that he refused to
release?
Mr. Cohen. I do not.
Mr. Gomez. Can you give us any insight into what the real
reason is that the President has refused to release his tax
returns?
Mr. Cohen. The statements that he had said to me is that
what he didn't want was to have an entire group of think tanks
that are tax experts run through his tax return and start
ripping it to pieces and then he'll end up in an audit and
he'll ultimately have taxable consequences, penalties, and so
on.
Mr. Gomez. So that's an interesting point, that basically
he said he didn't want to release his tax returns because he
might end up in an audit. So could you presume from that
statement that he wasn't under audit?
Mr. Cohen. I presume that he is not under audit.
Mr. Gomez. And the reason why I bring this up, because I'm
also the only Democrat on this committee that also serves on
the Committee of Ways and Means. That's the chief tax-writing
committee in the House of Representatives, and it is the only
committee in the House of Representatives that has jurisdiction
to request an American's tax return, and that includes the
President of the United States.
My constituents need to know whether the President has
financial ties that are causing him to protect his own bottom
line rather than the best interests of this country. Can he be
blackmailed because of his financial and business ventures,
including by a foreign government?
And I know the opposition, the first thing they're going to
ask or say is that he released his financial disclosure form.
But I believe that there's other things we can learn from his
taxes.
Do you have any idea what we can learn in his tax returns
if we actually--we got our hands on them?
Mr. Cohen. No, I have actually--I have seen them, I just
have never gone through them. They're quite long.
Mr. Gomez. Quite long.
One of the things I also find ironic is the way they're
kind of attacking you is to undermine your credibility is--one
of the ways--is by saying that you committed bank fraud and tax
evasion. And the reason why it is a big deal is that it really
goes down to a person's character when it comes to taxes. But
yet, the Republican minority has never asked to see his taxes,
right? Something that for 40 years, Democrats and Republicans
alike, have released their tax returns to prove to the American
people that they didn't have financial interests that would be
leverageable by a foreign government, but this minority refuses
to ask for his tax returns.
I also want to kind of go on. I'm noticing a pattern, I'm
noticing a pattern about the President and those in his inner
circle. Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team has indicted or
received guilty pleas from 34 people and three companies that
we know of, the latest being long-term Trump adviser Roger
Stone. That group includes six former Trump advisers.
It appears that the President has a fondness for entrusting
those who will, one, lie for him, two, break the law for him,
three, cheat the system for him. Essentially he wants to
surround himself with people who are just like him. Would you
agree with that statement?
Mr. Cohen. From the facts and circumstances, it appears so.
Mr. Gomez. Mr. Cohen, the American people have a lot of
questions when it comes to this President and his conduct, when
he went to Helsinki and he bowed before Vladimir Putin, and
nobody can really understand why he acts the way he acts. And
we believe that the way we get those answers is really looking
at everybody that surrounds him, who he has been associated
with, and his tax returns, because that is the only way that we
can get down to the bottom line.
Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairman Cummings. Thank you.
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous
consent request.
Chairman Cummings. All right. Go ahead.
Mr. Meadows. I ask unanimous consent that we read into--or
for the record a tweet from Dr. Darrell Scott, which says,
``Michael Cohen asked, no, begged me repeatedly, to ask POTUS
to give him a job in the administration. He is still lying
under oath.'' I ask unanimous consent.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection.
[The information referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Meadows. I have one more from Bo Dietl: ``Getting sick
watching these hearings. I know Michael Cohen personally for
many years and he told me several times that he was very angry
and upset that he didn't get a post in the White House and that
he,'' quote, ``'would do what he has to do now to protect his
family,' '' close quote. I ask that be----
Chairman Cummings. Without objection.
[The information referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Meadows. I thank you.
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Chairman, two quick ones.
Chairman Cummings. And then, if we have got other ones,
we're going to do you, Mr. Ranking Member, and then we'll do
the other ones they send, because I have things, too, that I
want to get in.
Mr. Jordan. I ask unanimous consent that an article in
Salon magazines written by Stanley Brand, former House counsel
to Tip O'Neill, title of the article is, ``Oversight committee
session with Michael Cohen looks like an illegitimate show
hearing.''
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.
[The article referenced above is available at: https://
theconversation.com/oversight-committee-session-with-michael-
cohen-looks-like-an-illegitimate-show-hearing-112253 ,
reprinted in Salon Magazine]
Mr. Jordan. I ask unanimous consent that a letter that Mr.
Meadows and I sent to you, the chairman, requesting that you
call Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein to testify at this
hearing also be part of the record. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. It is part of the record.
[The information referred to follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Cohen. Mr. Chairman, can I respond?
Chairman Cummings. Just one second, all right?
The article that Mr. Brand, I just want to deal with this
one right away. When we saw that article, Mr. Ranking Member,
we knew that it was inaccurate. I mean, just on basics, I mean,
that the case is that Mr. Brand's views are definitely
distinguishable for what's going on here.
And so we got Irvin B. Nathan, former general counsel of
the House from 2007 to 2010, and he says in short, the
committee has ample jurisdiction and responsibility to hear and
consider the upcoming voluntary testimony of Mr. Cohen. That's
dated February 25, 2019.
And I want to enter that into the record. Without
objection, so ordered. Where are we?
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Cohen, I would like to quickly pick up on some previous
lines of questioning before getting into my own. So I may go a
little quickly to get it all in in five minutes.
First, my colleague from Vermont had asked you several
questions about AMI, the parent company of the National
Enquirer, and in that you mentioned a treasure trove, a, quote,
treasurer trove of documents in David Pecker's office relating
to information assembled from all these catch and kill
operations against people who potentially had damaging
information on the President. You also mentioned that the
President was very concerned about the whereabouts of these
documents and who possessed them.
Does that treasure trove of documents still exist?
Mr. Cohen. I don't know. I had asked David Pecker for them.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. So you would say the person who knows
the whereabouts of these documents would be David Pecker?
Mr. Cohen. David Pecker, Barry Levine, or Dylan Howard.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. OK. Thank you.
Second, I want to ask a little bit about your conversation
with my colleague from Missouri about asset inflation. To your
knowledge, did the President ever provide inflated assets to an
insurance company?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Who else knows that the President did
this?
Mr. Cohen. Allen Weisselberg, Ron Lieberman, and Matthew
Calamari.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And where would the committee find more
information on this? Do you think we need to review his
financial statements and his tax returns in order to compare
them?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, and you would find it at The Trump Org.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you very much.
The last thing here. The Trump Golf organization currently
has a golf course in my home borough of the Bronx, Trump Links.
I drive past it every day going between The Bronx and Queens.
In fact, The Washington Post reported on the Trump Links Bronx
course in an article entitled ``Taxpayers Built This New York
Golf Course and Trump Reaps the Rewards.''
That article is where many New Yorkers and people in the
country learned that taxpayers spent $127 million to build
Trump Links in a, quote, ``generous deal allowing President
Trump to keep almost every dollar that flows in on a golf
course built with public funds.'' And this doesn't seem to be
the only time the President has benefited at the expense of the
public.
Mr. Cohen, I want to ask you about your assertion that the
President may have improperly devalued his assets to avoid
paying taxes. According to an August 21, 2016, report by The
Washington Post, while the President claimed in financial
disclosure forms that Trump National Golf Club in Jupiter,
Florida, was worth more than $50 million, he had reported
otherwise to local tax authorities that the course was worth,
quote, ``no more than $5 million.''
Mr. Cohen, do you know whether this specific report is
accurate?
Mr. Cohen. It's identical to what he did at Trump National
Golf Club at Briar Cliff Manor.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. To your knowledge, was the President
interested in reducing his local real estate bills, tax bills?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And how did he do that?
Mr. Cohen. What you do is you deflate the value of the
asset, and then you put in a request to the tax department for
a deduction.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you.
Now, in October 2018, The New York Times revealed that,
quote, ``President Trump participated in dubious tax schemes
during the 1990's, including instances of outright fraud that
greatly increased the fortune he received from his parents.''
It further stated for Mr. Trump, quote, ``He also helped
formulate a strategy to undervalue his parents' real estate
holdings by hundreds of millions of dollars on tax returns,
sharply reducing his tax bill when those properties were
transferred to him and his siblings.''
Mr. Cohen, do you know whether that specific report is
accurate?
Mr. Cohen. I don't. I wasn't there in the 1990's.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Who would know the answer to those
questions?
Mr. Cohen. Allen Weisselberg.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And would it help for the committee to
obtain Federal and State tax returns from the President and his
company to address that discrepancy?
Mr. Cohen. I believe so.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you very much. I yield the rest of
my time to the chair.
Chairman Cummings. Ms. Pressley.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
One more time, Mr. Chairman, I just want to thank you for
your leadership and the way in which you comport yourself. And
I know there are some that would have you believe that the more
you say something the more true it is, but, in fact, this
committee, thanks to your leadership and our Democratic
majority, has been doing the work of the American people.
Before this committee alone we looked at the issue of making
election day a Federal holiday, reducing drug pricing, and
pursued subpoenas to reunite families, and just recently,
before we returned here, tried to pass a universal background
check gun bill.
So we are doing the business of the American people,
including today. It has been said that the best sunlight--
sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants. Electric
light is the most efficient policeman. Well, let there be
light, because the point of oversight is for us to pursue the
trust, to pursue the truth and justice for the American people,
to understand if lies, deceit, and corruption are threatening
American democracy and indeed our safety.
Mr. Chairman, charities should not be abused as personal
piggy banks. It is both against the law and extremely unfair to
charities that play by the rules. A line of questioning that we
have not yet addressed and have been glaringly absent in
tackling is that of the abuses of the Trump Foundation.
Now, the President's charitable foundation agreed to
dissolve in response to an ongoing investigation and lawsuit by
the New York attorney general. The New York attorney general
found what it called, quote, ``clear and repeated violations of
State and Federal law, including, quote, repeated and willful
self-dealing by the Trump administration''--my apologies, by
the foundation.
If I understand your opening statement correctly, in mid-
2013 you arranged for a straw purchaser to bid $60,000 for a
portrait of Mr. Trump painted by the artist William Quigley at
a charity auction. Is that correct?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Ms. Pressley. Why would the President want to bid up the
price of something that he was ultimately paying for?
Mr. Cohen. It was all about ego.
Ms. Pressley. How was it paid for?
Mr. Cohen. I believe it was paid for by a check from the
trust.
Ms. Pressley. An abuse. And again, you know, this is not a
partisan pursuit here. I think ultimately what we're
demonstrating is patriotism. This is about what is right and
just for the American people.
Did the straw purchaser purchase the painting and then the
foundation funds reimbursed the straw purchaser? Can you
explain the mechanics of that payment?
Mr. Cohen. I'm not involved with the foundation.
Ms. Pressley. OK. Did the President know what was
happening?
Mr. Cohen. Oh, yes.
Ms. Pressley. And how did you know he knew what was
happening?
Mr. Cohen. Because he tasked me to find the straw bidder to
ensure that his painting, which was going last in the auction,
would go for the highest amount of any of the paintings that
had been put on the auction block for the day.
Ms. Pressley. And what happened to the painting?
Mr. Cohen. I believe it's in one of the clubs.
Ms. Pressley. Okay.
According to the New York attorney general, in March 2014
Mr. Trump again used the foundation to pay $10,000 for the
winning bid on another portrait of Mr. Trump that ended up as
decor in one of his golf courses in Miami.
Mr. Cohen, are you familiar with that transaction?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Ms. Pressley. Are you aware of any other instances where
the Trump Foundation was used to benefit the Trump family?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Ms. Pressley. Could you elaborate?
Mr. Cohen. So there was a contract that I ended up creating
on Mr. Trump's behalf for a Ukrainian oligarch by the name of
Victor Pinchuk, and it was that Mr. Trump was asked to come and
to participate in what was the Ukrainian-American economic
forum.
Unfortunately, he wasn't able to go, but I was able to
negotiate 15 minutes by Skype where they would have a camera,
very much like the television camera, very much like that one,
and they would translate Mr. Trump to the questioner and then
he would respond back.
And I negotiated a fee of $150,000 for 15 minutes. I was
directed by Mr. Trump to have the contract done in the name of
the Donald J. Trump Foundation, as opposed to Donald J. Trump
for services rendered.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you.
Any other abuses of the foundation that you would like to
share? Again, it is against the law and again extremely unfair
to charities that are playing by the rules.
Mr. Cohen. Not at this time, but if I think of one I'll
pass it along.
Ms. Pressley. OK. And then for the balance of my time,
would you agree that someone could deny rental units to African
Americans, lead the birther movement, refer to the diaspora as
shithole countries, and refer to White supremacists as fine
people, have a Black friend, and still be racist?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Ms. Pressley. I agree.
Chairman Cummings. The gentlelady's time has expired. You
may answer the question.
Mr. Cohen. I did. Yes.
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman, I have two unanimous consent.
Since we're finishing up, before we get done I want to go
ahead.
Chairman Cummings. Okay. Just give me one second.
Mr. Meadows. Yes, sir.
Chairman Cummings. I wanted to get to Ms. Tlaib and then
I'll come to you, OK? They have been waiting here all day.
Ms. Tlaib.
Ms. Tlaib. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, all of you, for centering this committee on our
sole purpose, is exposing the truth. And some of my colleagues
can't handle the truth, and this is unfortunate because it's
the center of what is protecting our country right now.
The people at home are frustrated, Mr. Cohen, and they want
criminal schemes to stop, especially those from the Oval
Office.
Mr. Cohen, I am upset and know that my residents feel the
same way that a man you worked for for the past 10 years is
using the most powerful position in the world to hurt our
country solely for personal gain. We are upset that some of our
colleagues here are so disconnected of what it means to have
this President of the United States sending checks to cover
bribe payments, not hush payments, bribe payments you made on
his behalf, one in 2017 of March and another August 2017 after
he was sworn in as President.
They are upset that while my colleagues are trying to
discredit your testimony by some of your own unlawful acts and
lies, that they are disconnected with the fact that you were
the personal lawyer for this President of the United States,
that this President chose you as his legal counsel.
My stance has always been the same, Mr. Chairman, based on
the facts, not on future reports that we're all waiting on. My
residents back home don't need a collusion clause with a
foreign government to know this President, Individual 1, has
disregarded the law of the land, the United States
Constitution, and that he has misused his pardon powers.
In the sentencing memo, Mr. Cohen, filed by the Federal
prosecutors in New York in December of last year they stated,
quote, ``In particular, and as Cohen himself has now admitted
with respect to both payments, he acted in coordination with
and at the direction of Individual 1.''
Mr. Cohen, as you know, to President Donald J. Trump brand
comes first, not the American people. Based on what you know
now, based on what we know now, is that Individual 1 used his
money, businesses, and platform to enrich himself, his brand,
and in the process directed you, Mr. Cohen to commit multiple
felonies, and you covered it up, correct?
Mr. Cohen. That's correct.
Ms. Tlaib. You called it protecting his brand, correct?
Mr. Cohen. And him, as well.
Ms. Tlaib. Mr. Cohen, with this, do you think the President
of the United States is making decisions in the best interests
of the American people?
Mr. Cohen. No, I don't.
Ms. Tlaib. Especially those you said that he used horrible
words about, like African Americans, Muslim Americans, and
immigrants?
Mr. Cohen. Yes.
Ms. Tlaib. Just to make a note, Mr. Chairman, just because
someone has a person of color, a Black person working for them,
does not mean they aren't racist. And it is insensitive that
some would even say -- the fact that someone would actually use
a prop, a Black woman in this Chamber, in this committee, is
alone racist in itself.
Donald Trump is setting a precedent----
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman, I ask that her words be taken
down.
Ms. Tlaib. Donald Trump is setting a precedent -- I reclaim
my time.
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman----
Ms. Tlaib. Donald Trump is setting a precedent----
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman----
Ms. Tlaib [continuing]. that the highest office can be
attained through illegal activity----
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman, the rules are clear.
Ms. Tlaib [continuing]. cover up, and hold on to business
assets to break campaign finance laws and constitutional
clauses.
What we have here, Mr. Chairman, is criminal conduct in the
pursuit of the highest public office by Mr. Cohen and
Individual 1. I hope that the gravity of this situation hits
everyone in this body and in Congress and across this country.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield the rest of my time.
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman, I ask that her words, when she
is referring to an individual Member of this body, be taken
down and stricken from the record. I'm sure she didn't intend
to do this. But if anyone knows my record as it relates, it
should be you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Chairman, I would like -- I want the words
read back.
Chairman Cummings. No, no.
Mr. Jordan. We want to know exactly what she said about my
colleague.
Chairman Cummings. Excuse me.
Would you like to rephrase that statement, Ms. Tlaib?
Ms. Tlaib. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can actually read it
from here.
Just to make a note, Mr. Chairman, that just because
someone has a person of color, a Black person working for them,
does not mean they aren't racist. And it is insensitive that
someone would even say racist -- say it is racist in itself and
to use a Black woman as a prop to prove it otherwise.
And I can submit this for the record. If a colleague is
thinking that that's what I'm saying, I'm just saying that's
what I believe to have happened. And as a person of color in
this committee that's how I felt at that moment, and I wanted
to express that.
But I am not calling the gentleman, Mr. Meadows, a racist
for doing so. I'm saying that in itself it is a racist act.
Mr. Meadows. Well, I hope not, Mr. Chairman, because I need
to be clear on this particular -- Mr. Chairman----
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Meadows, wait a minute.
Mr. Meadows. I have defended you of -- with false----
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Meadows, I'm the chair.
Mr. Meadows. Yes, sir, you are.
Chairman Cummings. Thank you. I will clear this up.
Now, Ms. Tlaib, is it--I want to make sure I understand.
You did not -- you were not intending to call Mr. Meadows a
racist. Is that right?
Ms. Tlaib. No, Mr. Chairman, I do not call Mr. Meadows a
racist.
Chairman Cummings. Wait a minute. Hold on.
Ms. Tlaib. I am trying as a person of color, Mr. Chairman,
just to express myself and how I felt at that moment. And so
just for the record, that's what was my intention.
Chairman Cummings. All right.
Is that all right, Mr. Meadows?
Mr. Meadows. Mr. Chairman, there's nothing more personal to
me than my relationship -- my nieces and nephews are people of
color. Not many people know that. You know that, Mr. Chairman.
And to indicate that I asked someone who is a personal friend
of the Trump family, who has worked for him, who knows this
particular individual, that she is coming in to be a prop? It
is racist to suggest that I asked her to come in here for that
reason.
Mr. President--the President's own person, she is a family
member, she loves this family. She came in because she felt
like the President of the United States was getting falsely
accused.
And, Mr. Chairman, you and I have a personal relationship
that's not based on color, and to even go down this direction
is wrong, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. First of all, I want to thank the
gentleman for what you have stated. If there's anyone who is
sensitive with regard to race it is me, son of former
sharecroppers that were basically slaves. So I get it.
I listened very carefully to Ms. Tlaib, and I think, and I
don't want--I'm not going to put words in her mouth, but I
think she said that she was not calling you a racist. And I
thought that we could clarify that.
Because, Mr. Meadows, you know, and of all the people on
this committee I have said it and got in trouble for it, that
you're one of my best friends. I know that shocks a lot of
people.
Mr. Meadows. And likewise, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. Yes. But you are. And I would--and I
could see and feel your pain. I feel it. And so--and I don't
think Ms. Tlaib intended to cause you that, that kind of pain
and that kind of frustration.
Did you have a statement, Ms. Tlaib? I'm going to yield to
you. We can just straighten this up.
Ms. Tlaib. No. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And to my colleague, Mr. Meadows, that was not my
intention, and I do apologize if that's what it sounded like.
But I said someone in general. And as everybody knows in this
Chamber, I'm pretty direct. So if I wanted to say that I would
have, but that's not what I said.
And thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing me to clarify.
But again, I said someone. And again, I was not referring
to you at all as a racist.
Mr. Meadows. Well, I thank the gentlewoman for her
comments. I thank the chairman for working to clarify this, and
I appreciate the chairman's intervening.
Chairman Cummings. Now, to the gentleman, first of all,
thank you for allowing us to resolve that.
The gentleman had asked a little bit earlier----
Mr. Meadows. I will withdraw my request.
Chairman Cummings. Oh, you don't want to do the unanimous
consent?
Mr. Meadows. I need the unanimous consent, but I think I
need to officially withdraw my request that it be stricken from
the record.
Chairman Cummings. OK, withdraw it. You did it?
Mr. Meadows. I did.
Chairman Cummings. All right. Sounds good.
Now I will recognize you for your unanimous consent. I
think you want to put in the record some documents.
Mr. Meadows. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I ask unanimous consent that we put forth in the record the
Vanity Fair article which indicates that Michael Cohen must be
the most gifted consultant in America, outlining his insights
into government healthcare and policy and real estate,
suggesting that he is not--it is not a real company, just like
he is not a lawyer.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.
[The information referred to follows:]
[The article referenced above is available at: https://
www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/05/michael-cohen-must-be-the-most-
gifted-consultant-in-america]
Mr. Meadows. Thank you.
I ask unanimous consent that the L.A. Times article of July
16, 2018, actually be put in the record, which outlines the
$1.2 million payment and their misgivings thereafter.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.
[The article referenced above is available at:https://
www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-novartis-cohen-
20180716-story.html.]
Chairman Cummings. Any other unanimous consent requests?
Mr.Hice.
Mr. Hice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I ask unanimous consent to make the February 9, 2019,
Washington Post profile of Michael Cohen, titled ``Michael
Cohen's Secret Agenda,'' part of the record. This story shows
Cohen to be a selfish manipulator who is all about himself. It
even has a false anecdote about how he once claimed to deliver
his own son, his own baby.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.
[The article may be found at:https://
www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/politics/michael-cohens-
secret-agenda-as-trumps-fixer/?utm--term=.b39beefbdfce ]
Mr. Hice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I ask unanimous consent to make the May 9, 2018, Washington
Post article, ``South Korean Firm Paid Michael Cohen $150,000
as it Sought Contract from U.S. Government,'' as part of the
record. The article reported Korea Aerospace Industries paid a
shell company run by Cohen.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.
[The article may be found at: https://
www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/south-korean-firm-paid-
michael-cohen-150000-as-it-sought-contract-from-us-government/
2018/05/09/0ae31788-53b7-11e8-abd8-265bd07a9859--
story.html?utm--term=.f63ad297b92d.]
Mr. Hice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I ask unanimous consent to make Michael Cohen's sentencing
statement to the Southern District of New York part of the
record. The statement establishes that Michael Cohen continues
to falsely blame his crimes on blind loyalty to the President,
but only Cohen is to blame for his many false statements to
financial institutions and the IRS.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.
[The information referred to follows:]
Michael Cohen - Sentencing Statement
Thank you, your Honor.
I stand before your Honor humbly and painfully aware that we are
here today for one reason: Because of my actions that I pied guilty to
on August 21, and as well on November 29.
I take full responsibility for each act that I pied guilty to, the
personal ones to me and those involving the President of the United
States of America. Viktor Frankl in his book, "Man's Search for
Meaning," he wrote, "There are forces beyond your control that can take
away everything you possess except one thing, your freedom to choose
how you will respond to the situation."
Your Honor, this may seem hard to believe, but today is one of the
most meaningful days of my life. The irony is today is the day I am
getting my freedom back as you sit at the bench and you contemplate my
fate.
I have been living in a personal and mental incarceration ever
since the fateful day that I accepted the offer to work for a famous
real estate mogul whose business acumen I truly admired. In fact, I now
know that there is little to be admired. I want to be clear. I blame
myself for the conduct which has brought me here today, and it was my
own weakness, and a blind loyalty to this man that led me to choose a
path of darkness over light. It is for these reasons I chose to
participate in the elicit act of the President rather than to listen to
my own inner voice which should have warned me that the campaign
finance violations that I later pied guilty to were insidious.
Recently, the President Tweeted a statement calling me weak, and he
was correct, but for a much different reason than he was implying. It
was because time and time again I felt it was my duty to cover up his
dirty deeds rather than to listen to my own inner voice and my moral
compass. My weakness can be characterized as a blind loyalty to Donald
Trump, and I was weak for not having the strength to question and to
refuse his demands. I have already spent years living a personal and
mental incarceration, which no matter what is decided today, owning
this mistake will free me to be once more the person I really am.
Your Honor, I love my family more than anything in the world: My
dad who is here today, my mom, my in-laws, siblings, love of my life,
my wife Laura, my pride and joy, my daughter Samantha, my son, Jake.
There is no sentence that could supersede the suffering that I live
with on a daily basis, knowing that my actions have brought undeserved
pain and shame upon my family. I deserve that pain. They do not.
I also stand before my children, for them to see their father
taking responsibility for his mistakes, mistakes that have forced them
to bear a shameful spotlight which they have done nothing to deserve,
and this breaks my heart. For me, the greatest punishment has been
seeing the unbearable pain that my actions and my associations have
brought to my entire family. My mom, my dad, this isn't what they
deserve to see in their older age, especially when as a child they
emphasized to all of us the difference between right and wrong. And I'm
sorry.
I believed during this process that there were only two things I
could do to minimize the pain to my family: Admit my guilt and move
these proceedings along. This is why I did not enter into a cooperation
agreement. I have elected to be sentenced without asking for
adjournment. I have given information during countless hours of
meetings with prosecutors that have been cited as substantial,
meaningful and credible. I have chosen this unorthodox path because the
faster I am sentenced, the sooner I can return to my family, be the
father I want to be, the husband I want to be, and a productive member
of society again. I do not need a cooperation agreement to be in place
to do the right thing. And I will continue to cooperate with
government, offering as much information as I truthfully possess.
I stand behind my statement that I made to George Stephanopoulos,
that my wife, my daughter, my son have my first loyalty and always
will. I put family and country first. My departure as a loyal soldier
to the President bears a very hefty price.
For months now the President of the United States, one of the most
powerful men in the world, publicly mocks me, calling me a rat and a
liar, and insists that the Court sentence me to the absolute maximum
time in prison. Not only is this improper; it creates a false sense
that the President can weigh in on the outcome of judicial proceedings
that implicate him. Despite being vilified by the press and inundated
with character assassinations over the past almost two years, I still
stand today, and I am committed to proving my integrity and ensuring
that history will not remember me as the villain of his story. I now
know that every action I take in the future has to be well thought out
and with honorable intention because I wish to leave no room for future
mistakes in my life.
And so I beseech your Honor to consider this path that I am
currently taking when sentencing me today. And I want to apologize to
my entire family for what my actions have put them through. My family
has suffered immeasurably in the home and the world outside. I know I
have let them all down, and it will be my life's work to make it right,
and to become the best version of myself.
Most all, I want to apologize to the people of the United States.
You deserve to know the truth and lying to you was unjust. I want to
thank you, your Honor, for all the time I'm sure you've committed to
this matter and the consideration that you have given to my future.
Again, I want to thank my family, my friends, many who are here today,
who are with me, especially all the people who wrote letters on my
behalf. In addition, I would like to thank the tens of thousands of
strangers who despite not knowing me at all, not knowing me personally
have shown kindness and empathy in writing letters to me and offering
support and prayer. And I thank you, your Honor, I am truly sorry, and
I promise I will be better.
Mr. Hice. I ask unanimous consent to make the August 20,
2018, CNN article, ``Fed Scrutinizing Michael Cohen's Former
Accountant and Bank Loans,'' part of the record. Cohen's
accountant was subpoenaed to appear before a grand jury and
required a lawyer. In his sentencing memo prosecutors said
Cohen attempted to blame his tax evasion on his accountant.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.
[The article referenced above is available at: https://
www.cnn.com/2018/08/07/politics/michael-cohen-accountant-
subpoena/index.html.]
Mr. Hice. Two more real quickly.
Chairman Cummings. Sure.
Mr. Hice. I ask unanimous consent to make the February 26,
2019, order filed by the Appellate Division of the State of New
York regarding disciplinary proceedings against Michael Cohen
part of the record. This order, which proactively applies
starting February 28, establishes Cohen committed a serious
crime and ceased being an attorney when he was convicted of
lying to Congress.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.
[The information referred to follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Hice. And finally, Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous
consent to make the July 26, 2018, Washington Post article,
``Michael Cohen Secretly Recorded Trump: Does That Make Him a
Bad Lawyer,'' part of the record. The article describes
potential ethical violations of a lawyer, Cohen, recording his
client, Trump, without the client's knowledge.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.
[The article may be found on: https://
www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/07/25/michael-
cohen-secretly-recorded-trump-does-that-make-him-a-bad-lawyer/
?utm--term=.a8b7b4b17413.]
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Norman.
Mr. Norman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I ask unanimous consent to make the January 18, 2019,
Huffington Post article, ``11 Tweets from the Fake Fan Account
'Stud' Michael Cohen Paid to Fawn Over Him,'' part of the
record. The account is described as a place for women who love
and support Michael Cohen. ``Strong, pit bull, sex symbol, no
nonsense, business oriented, ready to make a difference!"
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.
[The article referenced above is available at: https://
www.huffpost.com/entry/michael-cohen-women-for-cohen-tweets--
n--5c41a28ee4b0bfa693c22b39.]
Chairman Cummings. Mr. Roy.
Mr. Roy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would ask unanimous consent to make the April 20, 2018,
article in Mother Jones titled ``Michael Cohen Says He Has
Never Been to Prague, He Told Me a Different Story'' part of
the record.
Chairman Cummings. Without objection, so ordered.
[The article referencedabove is available at: https://
www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/04/michael-cohen-says-hes-
never-been-to-prague-he-told-me-a-different-story/.]
Mr. Roy. Thank you, sir.
Chairman Cummings. Very well.
Mr. Cohen, I have some concluding remarks, but before I do
that do you have anything you would like to say?
Mr. Cohen. Yes, yes, Mr. Chairman, I would. I have some
closing remarks I would like to say myself. Is this an
appropriate time?
Chairman Cummings. You can do it now.
Mr. Cohen. Thank you.
So first I want to thank you, Chairman, because I
appreciate the opportunity to share some final thoughts.
I have acknowledged I have made my own mistakes, and I have
owned up to them publicly and under oath, but silence and
complicity in the face of the daily destruction of our basic
norms and civility to one another will not be one of them.
I did things and I acted improperly, at times at Mr.
Trump's behest. I blindly followed his demands. My loyalty to
Mr. Trump has cost me everything, my family's happiness,
friendships, my law license, my company, my livelihood, my
honor, my reputation, and soon my freedom, and I will not sit
back, say nothing and allow him to do the same to the country.
Indeed, given my experience working for Mr. Trump, I fear
that if he loses the election in 2020, that there will never be
a peaceful transition of power, and this is why I agreed to
appear before you today.
In closing, I would like to say directly to the President:
We honor our veterans even in the rain. You tell the truth even
when it doesn't aggrandize you. You respect the law and our
incredible law enforcement agents. You don't villainize them.
You don't disparage generals, gold star families, prisoners of
war, and other heroes who had the courage to fight for this
country.
You don't attack the media and those who question what you
don't like or what you don't want them to say. And you take
responsibility for your own dirty deeds. You don't use your
power of your bully pulpit to destroy the credibility of those
who speak out against you.
You don't separate families from one another or demonize
those looking to America for a better life. You don't vilify
people based on the God they pray to, and you don't cuddle up
to our adversaries at the expense of our allies. And, finally,
you don't shut down the government before Christmas and New
Year's just to simply appease your base. This behavior is
churlish. It denigrates the office of the President, and it's
simply un-American, and it's not you.
So to those who support the President and his rhetoric, as
I once did, I pray the country doesn't make the same mistakes
that I have made, or pay the heavy price that my family and I
are paying. And I thank you very much for this additional time,
Chairman.
Chairman Cummings. Thank you very much. The ranking member
has a closing statement.
Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We know Mr. Cohen has
been dishonest in the past--that's why he's going to prison in
two months--but there are things today that he said during the
several hours of questioning that just don't add up either. He
said he never defrauded any bank. He was having a conversation
questioning from Mr. Comer. Obviously, that's not true, because
he's going to prison for that very offense.
He said today he was a good lawyer who understood the need
to represent his client--his client with legal advice, but in
his written testimony, he said he never bothered to consider
whether payments to women for improper--whether payments to
women were improper, much less the right thing to do.
He attested in his signed truth in testimony form, that he
did not have any reportable contracts with foreign-government
entities. Earlier he admitted to having consulting agreements
with at least two foreign entities owned, in part, by foreign
governments BTA Bank of Kazakhstan and Korea Aerospace
Industries of South Korea.
He said to Chairman Cummings that Donald Trump directed him
and the Trump Organization CFO, Allen Weisselberg, to, quote,
``go back to his office and figure out how to make a $130,000
payment,'' but in his testimony, he says, Mr. Trump directed me
to use my own personal funds from the home equity line of
credit to avoid any money being traced back to him that could
negatively impact the campaign.
And in response to a question about him paying to set up
the fake Twitter account, @WomenForCohen, that he didn't direct
the commission of that Twitter account. He says, I didn't set
that up, and it was done by a young lady that works for the
firm, when, in fact, he did ask the IT firm, RedFinch, to set
it up, according to the owner of RedFinch. And, finally, he
said he didn't want a job with the administration, even though
the attorneys with the Southern District of New York stated
that this was a fact. When asked about this, they said, I
wouldn't call them liars, but that statement is not accurate.
Mr. Chairman, I think maybe more importantly is what we
should have been doing today. Mr. Meadows and I sent you a
letter asking us--asking you to have Mr. Rosenstein here. I
think it's important to know that last week, when you announced
that Mr. Cohen was coming this week, just happened to be the
very same week that we learned the Deputy Attorney General of
the United States was thinking about wearing a wire to record
the Commander in Chief, was actually contemplating, talking to
cabinet members and invoking the 25th Amendment.
That's what we should be focused on, not this sad display
we've had to go through the last several hours. And, again,
it's not my words. You can take the words of the former general
counsel for the House of Representatives under Tip O'Neill.
So I hope we've learned some things here today. But, Mr.
Chairman, as I said earlier, your first big hearing, the first
announced witness of the 116th Congress, is a gentleman who is
going to prison in two months for lying to Congress. I don't
think that's what we should be focused on. I yield back.
Chairman Cummings. Thank you very much.
You know, I've sat here and I've listened to all of this,
and it's very painful. It's very painful. You made a lot of
mistakes, Mr. Cohen, and you've admitted that. And, you know,
one of the saddest parts of this whole thing is that some very
innocent people are hurting, too--and you acknowledged that--
and that's your family. And so you come here today and you--
deep in my heart, I have to--you know, when I practiced law, I
represented a lot of lawyers who got in trouble, and you come
saying, I have made my mistakes, but now I want to change my
life. And, you know, if we--if we as a Nation, did not give
people an opportunity, after they made mistakes, to change
their lives, a whole lot of people would not do very well.
I don't know where you go from here. As I sat here and I
listened to both sides, I just felt as if--and--and, you know,
people are now using my words, that they took from me, that
didn't give me any credit, we're better than this. We are so
much--we really are. As a country, we are so much better than
this.
And, you know, I told you, and, and, and, for some reason,
Mr. Cohen, I tell my--my children, I say, when bad things
happen to you, do not ask the question, Why did it happen to
me? Ask the question, Why did it happen for me? I don't know
why this is happening for you, but it is my hope that a small
part of it is for our country to be better. If I hear you
correctly, it sounds like you're crying out for a new normal,
for us getting back to normal. It sounds to me like you want to
make sure that our democracy stays intact. When I had the one
meeting I had with President Trump, I said to him, the greatest
gift that you and I, Mr. President, can give to our children,
is making sure that we give them a democracy that is intact, a
democracy better than the one that we came upon, and I'm hoping
that the things you said today will help us begin to get back
there.
You know, I mean, come on now, I mean, when you got,
according to The Washington Post, our President has made at
least 8,718--8,718 false or misleading statements. That's
stunning. That's not what we teach our children. I don't teach
mine that. And for whatever reason, you--it sounds like you got
caught up in it. You got caught up in it. You got caught up in
it. And some kind of way, I hope that you will--I know that
it's painful going to prison. I know--I know it's got to be
painful being called a rat.
And let me--let me explain. A lot of people don't know the
significance of that, but I live in the inner city of
Baltimore, all right? And when you call somebody a rat, that's
one of the worse things you can call them, because when they go
to prison, that means a snitch. I'm just saying. And so the
President called you a rat. We're better than that. We really
are.
And I'm hoping that all of us can get back to this
democracy that we want and that we should be passing on our
children, so that they can do better than what we did.
And so you wonder whether people believe you. I don't know.
I don't know whether they believe you. But the fact is that you
come, you have your head down, and this has got to be one of
the hardest things that you could do.
Let me tell you the picture that really, really pained me.
You were leaving the prison--you were leaving the courthouse,
and I guess it's your daughter had braces or something on. Man,
that thing--man, that thing hurt me. As a father of two
daughters, it hurt me. And I can imagine how it must feel for
you.
But I'm just saying to you, I want to, first of all, thank
you. I know that this has been hard. I know that you face a
lot. I know that you are worried about your family, but this is
a part of your destiny. And hopefully this portion of your
destiny will lead to a better--a better--a better Michael
Cohen, a better Donald Trump, a better United States of
America, and a better world. And I mean that from the depths of
my heart.
When we're dancing with the angels, the question will be
asked, in 2019, what did we do to make sure we kept our
democracy intact? Did we stand on the sidelines and say
nothing? Did we play games? And I'm tired of these statements
saying--people come in here and say, Oh, oh, this is the first
hearing. It is not the first hearing. The first hearing with
regard to prescription drugs. Remember? A little girl, a lady
sat there, Ms. Worsham, her daughter died because she could not
get $333 a month in insulin. That was our first hearing.
Second hearing, H.R. 1, voting rights, corruption in
government. Come on now. We can do more than one thing, and we
have got to get back to normal. With that, this meeting is
adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 5:20 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
[all]