[House Hearing, 116 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] CRUSHING DISSENT: THE ONGOING CRISIS IN NICARAGUA ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, CIVILIAN SECURITY, AND TRADE OF THE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ June 11, 2019 __________ Serial No. 116-45 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://docs.house.gov, or www.govinfo.gov __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 36-567PDF WASHINGTON : 2019 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York, Chairman BRAD SHERMAN, California MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York Member ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia STEVE CHABOT, Ohio THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida JOE WILSON, South Carolina KAREN BASS, California SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts TED S. YOHO, Florida DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois AMI BERA, California LEE ZELDIN, New York JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas JIM SENSENBRENNER, Wisconsin DINA TITUS, Nevada ANN WAGNER, Missouri ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York BRIAN MAST, Florida TED LIEU, California FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania DEAN PHILLPS, Minnesota JOHN CURTIS, Utah ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota KEN BUCK, Colorado COLIN ALLRED, Texas RON WRIGHT, Texas ANDY LEVIN, Michigan GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania GREG PENCE, Indiana TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey STEVE WATKINS, Kansas DAVID TRONE, Maryland MIKE GUEST, Mississippi JIM COSTA, California JUAN VARGAS, California VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas Jason Steinbaum, Staff Director Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director ------ Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, Civilian Security, and Trade ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey, Chairman GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida, JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas Ranking Member ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota TED S. YOHO, Florida ANDY LEVIN, Michigan JOHN CURTIS, Utah VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas KEN BUCK, Colorado JUAN VARGAS, California MIKE GUEST, Mississippi Sadaf Khan, Staff Director C O N T E N T S ---------- Page OPENING STATEMENT FROM CHAIRMAN SIRES Hon. Albio Sires, Chairman of the subcommittee................... 3 WITNESSES Vivanco, Jose Miguel, Executive Director, Americas Division, Human Rights Watch............................................. 9 Maradiaga, Felix, Executive Director, Institute for Strategic Studies and Public Policies.................................... 16 Ponce, Carlos, Director, Latin American Programs, Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation.................................. 22 APPENDIX Hearing Notice................................................... 42 Hearing Minutes.................................................. 43 Hearing Attendance............................................... 44 INFORMATION SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD Amnesty International letter submitted for the record from Representative Rooney.......................................... 45 RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD Responses to questions submitted for the record from Representative Espaillat....................................... 49 CRUSHING DISSENT: THE ONGOING. CRISIS IN NICARAGUA Tuesday, June 11, 2019 House of Representatives Subcommittee on Western Hemisphere, Civilian Security and Trade Committee on Foreign Affairs Washington, DC The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:04 a.m., in room 2172 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Albio Sires (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Mr. Sires. This hearing will come to order. This hearing, titled, ``Crushing Dissent: The Ongoing Crisis in Nicaragua,'' will highlight the human rights situation in Nicaragua and the United States policy options to address the ongoing political crisis there. Without objection, all members may have 5 days to submit statements, questions, extraneous materials for the record, subject to the length limitation in the rules. I will now make an opening statement and then turn it over to the ranking member for his opening statement. Good morning, everyone. Thank you to our witnesses for being here today to discuss the deeply concerning crisis in Nicaragua. Since April 2018, protests against the government of President Daniel Ortega have been met with brutal oppression. While the protests began in response to a proposed social security reform, they came to represent much broader discontent with Ortega's authoritarian leadership. Security officials and armed thugs under the command of Ortega responded by shooting at unarmed protesters, leaving more than 320 people dead with 2,000 injured and hundreds arbitrarily detained. Civil society groups estimated there were over 700 political prisoners earlier this year. I understand that this morning, more than 50 political prisoners were released and as many as 520 have been freed in recent months. However, we must remember that these individuals should never have been jailed in the first place. Moreover, many remain under house arrest and are being denied the right to participate in politics and continue speaking out against this repressive regime. An independent panel of experts appointed by the Inter- American Commission on Human Rights conducted a field visit following the protests last year. These experts concluded that Ortega's government intentionally used lethal weapons against protesters in what amounted to crimes against humanity. I have heard firsthand from Nicaraguan activists including some Nicaraguan Americans who told me they were tortured while in government custody. Some say they were tortured by Cuban officials working in coordination with the Ortega regime. On May 16th, an American citizen, Eddy Montes, was shot and killed in a prison near Managua. We should demand accountability for the killing of Mr. Montes and for all those Nicaraguans who have been victims of human rights violation. Unfortunately, the blanket amnesty bill passed by Nicaragua's Congress over the weekend represents a huge step in the wrong direction as it would formally absolve the worst human rights violators of their crimes. While the last year has seen an increase in State violence, it is important to highlight that the situation in Nicaragua has been deteriorating for many years. I have been working with colleagues here to sound the alarm about the authoritarian slide taking place under Ortega and increase awareness about what is happening in Nicaragua. Last Congress, I co-sponsored a bill with my good friend from Florida, Chairman Emeritus of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, to pass the Nicaragua Human Rights and Anticorruption Act of 2018. The NICA Act requires the United States to vote against loans from international financial institutions to Nicaragua. It also authorizes the President to impose visa restrictions and block the foreign assets of individuals responsible for human rights violations or acts of corruption. We must send a clear message that we stand shoulder to shoulder with the people of Nicaragua. Nicaragua is the second poorest country in the Western Hemisphere and the political crisis has only worsened the suffering of many Nicaraguans. The people of Nicaragua deserve far better than this. I hope that today we can explore ways for the U.S. Congress to do more to support the Nicaraguan people in their quest for dignity, economic opportunity, and fundamental human rights. Thank you, and I now turn to the ranking member for his opening statement. [The prepared statement of Mr. Sires follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Rooney. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I would like to thank Chairman Sires for calling this very important hearing and to bring attention to what is going on in Nicaragua. I know much attention has been focused on Venezuela, but we need to let people know that a similarly destructive climate exists in Nicaragua. Last year, public anger over President Daniel Ortega's rule led to widespread protests that left over 300 civilians dead. Recent attempts by local groups like the Alianza, the United States, the OAS, and the broader international community to mediate a transition to democracy are struggling to yield results. I am concerned that the recent discussions to release political prisoners are delay and distracting moves, and the releases of today prove that because these people are not free, they are released to house arrest as the chairman mentioned. After being elected in 2006, Ortega used his corruption and intimidation to consolidate power for himself and the Sandinistas. He has eliminated Presidential term limits, removed the 35 percent vote threshold required to win the presidency, and has made it illegal for lawmakers to vote against their own party, thus paving the way to a complete and indefinite control over the Sandinista Party. Obliterating democratic norms, Ortega has made moves to shore up his own support among the public. Over time, he has implemented social welfare programs to benefit the country's poor, ostensibly, policies he claims are reducing poverty and raising incomes by providing government subsidies and services to the Nicaraguan public--sure sounds like Venezuela to me-- nonetheless, Nicaragua remains the second poorest country in the hemisphere. While at one point, Ortega recognized the importance of accommodating the business sector and nurturing the economy in Nicaragua, he has backtracked on this now and many, many jobs have been taken away and unemployment is rising. Ortega's antidemocratic rule has created a crisis plaguing Nicaragua. Until a few years ago, he was content, like I said, to let business operate, but once he moved to insulate his rule and bring his wife, Rosario Murillo, his vice president, into the 2016 election process, he reversed course. In 2018, public discontent came to a head after Ortega planned to reduce social welfare benefits. Additional social reforms sparked protests throughout Nicaragua and have led to complaints of government mismanagement and corruption. Ortega responded with violence and intimidation, leaving over 300 dead and hundreds of peaceful protesters in prison. In August 2018, the annual United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Report outlined widespread human rights abuses by the Nicaraguan Government. Those include extrajudicial killings, forced disappearances, torture, and the suppression of the rights of peaceful assembly and free expression. The OAS further reported in December 2018 that these violations by government forces constituted crimes against humanity. Despite coordinated efforts by the United States and a host of regional and international bodies to mediate the conflict, the Ortega regime has been able to maintain its control over Nicaragua. Talks between the government and the opposition have yet to bring any progress. The Trump administration and Congress have both responded strongly to the crisis with the implementation of personal sanctions and visa restrictions against Ortega, his family, and various Nicaraguan officials responsible for the violations of human rights. These are important maneuvers, and my understanding is they have had some significant, positive results. We need to do more. Moving forward, we must present a clear strategy in coordination with our partners and allies to exert maximum pressure on the Ortega regime, while also trying to alleviate the suffering of the Nicaraguan people. The United States must continue to show leadership within the OAS, and the OAS has passed resolutions condemning the government's use of violence and reaffirming the Hemisphere's collective concern over the deterioration of democratic institutions and human rights in Nicaragua. We must do more to pressure the Ortega regime to adopt electoral and judicial reforms and to bring about free and fair elections. The United States must maintain support for democratic actors in Nicaragua and encourage them to somehow or another become more effective than they may have been recently. We face unprecedented challenges in the Western Hemisphere. Among the most critical is the ongoing crisis in Nicaragua. These challenges, including the crisis in Venezuela, show corrupt leaders like Daniel Ortega that the United States will not stand by while legitimate regimes crush democracy and enrich themselves at the expense of their own people. We need to expand and strengthen the personal sanctions, limit Ortega's ability to exert influence in the rest of Central America and support opposition groups and try to help them become more effective in countering the Ortega regime within the country. Once again, I want to thank Chairman Sires for holding this important hearing and look forward to hearing from these important witnesses today. Mr. Sires. Thank you very much, Ranking Member Rooney. Let me introduce, first, Mr. Jose Miguel Vivanco, director of Human Rights Watch Americas Division and an expert on Latin America. He previously worked as an attorney for the Inter- American Commission on Human Rights. In 1990, he founded the Center for Justice and International Law. We will then hear from Mr. Felix Maradiaga, executive director at the Institute for Strategic Studies and Public Policy. In 2007, he founded the Civil Society Leadership Institute which trains leaders in Central America on nonviolence and civic engagement. In 2018, he was accused, without evidence, by the Nicaraguan government of financing terrorism under a new law that has been used repeatedly by Ortega's government to silence activists and dissidents. Finally, we will hear from Dr. Carlos Ponce, director of Latin American programs at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. Dr. Ponce has 28 years of experience in the field of governance, rule of law, civil society and development, advocacy for human rights, and democracy empowerment in Latin America. Most recently, he was regional director of Latin America and the Caribbean at the Freedom House. Thank you all for being here. I ask the witnesses to please limit your testimony to 5 minutes. Without objection, your prepared written statements will be made a part of the record. Thank you so much for being here today. And, Mr. Vivanco, I will turn to you for your testimony. STATEMENT OF JOSE MIGUEL VIVANCO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMERICAS DIVISION, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH Mr. Vivanco. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Rooney and members of this committee for inviting me, the subcommittee for inviting me to testify on Nicaragua's human rights record. In April 2018, massive antigovernment protests broke out across Nicaragua. Police, in coordination with armed, pro- government groups brutally repressed protesters. In the context of demonstrations, more than 300 people were killed and more than 2,000 were seriously injured. Many of the people detained during the crackdown were subject to serious abuses that in some cases amounted to torture, including electric shocks, severe beatings, nail removal, asphyxiation, and rape. Authorities' abuses of protester remain unpunished. Moreover, President Ortega promoted top officials who bear responsibility for the abuses. The government has also threatened, harassed, expelled, jailed those who expose its abuses including independent journalists, human rights defenders, international monitors, and NGO's. Several of the human rights defenders and journalists targeted during the crackdown have been longstanding critics of Ortega and have already been victims of harassment before the protest started. Since the beginning of the protest, Nicaragua's police and armed pro-government groups have operated jointly to detain hundreds of demonstrators. Armed pro-government groups have also abducted many people, at times holding them in secret detention facilities. On March 20, 2019, the Nicaraguan Government agreed to release all people detained in the context of the protests by June 18 and to drop the charges against them in an effort to persuade international community, and particularly the U.S. Government, to lift sanctions against them. Human rights defenders and other critics of the government have increasingly become the targets of death threats, harassment, judicial persecution, and even expulsion from the country. Between November 29 and December 13, 2018, Nicaragua's Congress has stripped nine non-governmental organizations of their legal registration, effectively forcing them to shut down. Congressman Filiberto Rodriguez of the ruling party introduced the motions of stripping them of registration at the request of Interior Ministry. On the night of December 13, the national police raided five of these organizations, confiscating many documents and computers. The NGO shutdowns were followed by criminal charges against prominent human rights defenders and the expulsion of Inter-American Human Rights Commission and previously the representatives of the High Commissioner for Human Rights. Since April 18 of last year, police and armed pro-government groups have harassed, intimidated, assaulted, and detained journalists. Two foreign journalists reporting on the crackdown were deported in August and October of last year. The government has shut down critical news channels. Since April 2018, 56 Nicaraguan journalists have gone into exile. According to United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, more than 60,000 Nicaraguans have fled the country since the protest began in April 2018, with the majority, 55,000 of them, seeking refuge in Costa Rica. We support the application of the Global Magnitsky Act in July 2018 and December 2018, when the U.S. Treasury Department imposed sanctions on five Nicaraguans implicated in human rights abuses and corruption, including national police commissioner Francisco Diaz and also Vice President Rosario Murillo. The Nicaraguan Human Rights and Anticorruption Act, NICA Act, passed on December 20th of 2018, expanded on the Global Magnitsky Act to allow the U.S. Government to take additional action against egregious human rights abuses taking place in Nicaragua. We urge Congress to consider its immediate implementation against human rights abusers in Nicaragua who have yet to be held accountable and look forward to working with you on these efforts. My last remarks are going to be related to the amnesty legislation, amnesty law that was passed this week in Nicaragua. On June 8, the Nicaragua National Assembly passed a broad amnesty law for crimes committed in the context of antigovernment protest. The recent release of over 150 people who were arrested during the protest shows that the law is not necessary to release the political prisoners who are still behind bars. On the contrary, the law could be used to benefit officers responsible for abuses. The law indicates that crimes, ``regulated in international treaties, ratified by Nicaragua,'' will be excluded by the amnesties. Yet, given lack of judicial independence in Nicaragua, there is a serious risk that the law will be used to consolidate impunity that officers responsible for serious abuses in the country have enjoyed today. According to the Office of the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights, the available information indicates that only one member of the armed pro-government groups, only one member of those kinds of groups has been convicted for crimes documented by the High Commissioner Human Rights Office of United Nations, and not a single police officer is being investigated for these atrocities. Not a single police officer of the Nicaraguan police has been investigated, prosecuted, or charged for atrocities committed in violation of human rights last year and the current year. The law provides, finally, that people who engage in new crimes will have their amnesty revoked. Given the government's record of prosecuting critics, there is a risk that this provision will be misused to persecute former political prisoners who continue to criticize the government, the dictatorship of Ortega, after they are released. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. [The prepared statement of Mr. Vivanco follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Sires. Thank you. Mr. Maradiaga, you are now recognized for testimony. STATEMENT OF FELIX MARADIAGA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR STRATEGIC STUDIES AND PUBLIC POLICIES Mr. Maradiaga. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of this subcommittee, it is an honor to be here today. Chairman Sires, thank you for paying a special attention to the very serious situation in Nicaragua. Since his return to power in 2006, Daniel Ortega has taken over Nicaragua's institutions to remain in power, causing widespread corruption, human rights abuses, and a collapsing economy. Ortega and his inner circle constitute the clear and present danger not only to the people of Nicaragua, but also to the entire hemisphere. In the face of this, Nicaraguans have joined together to restore liberty, justice, and democracy. In April 2018, Nicaraguans from all walks of life joined pro-democracy protest demanding respect for human rights, the resignation of Ortega, and early, free, and internationally monitored elections. The response was a brutal government crackdown on protesters that caused the death of over 300 civilians. Talks between the regime and the opposition have repeatedly failed. In May of this year, negotiations were suspended as a result of the assassination of political prisoner Eddy Montes, a U.S. Navy veteran with dual citizenship who was retired in Nicaragua. His killing inside the notorious La Modelo prison outraged Nicaraguans because he was shot by prison guards with an AK-47 while unarmed. Ortega has violated preliminary agreements. Instead, his regime continues to perpetrate human rights violations including extrajudicial killings, torture, sexual abuse of prisoners, arbitrary detention, and other crimes against humanity. These violations make it increasingly difficult for the opposition to resume negotiations. The regime continues to persecute citizens who actively participated in the protests, causing an unprecedented exodus of refugees not seen since the Nicaraguan civil war of the 1980's. Over 100,000 people have fled the country since the conflict began. The vast majority remains in Costa Rica under dire conditions. Although the response of the Government of Costa Rica has been admirable, the international community has ignored that there is a humanitarian crisis of Nicaraguan refugees in Costa Rica. We have also seen an increase of Nicaraguans escaping from political persecution and seeking asylum in the United States. Their need for asylum is legitimate and they will face certain death or incarceration if they return. At least 2,000 people have been imprisoned for participating in anti-Sandinista protest, and while most of them have been released on house arrest due to national and international pressure, many remain in arbitrary detention. The regime continues to use human beings as bargaining chips. An additional 200 activists, myself included, have arrest warrants under bogus charges. Ortega controls the national police who report directly to him and his wife. In the case of the military, once Ortega rose to power, he sent generals that were considered professional into early retirement and promoted those that were loyal to him. Despite immense personal risks, the people of Nicaragua continue to struggle for democratic change. All forms of peaceful protest have been prohibited. Sandinista paramilitary constantly intimidate members of the opposition, all major cities are militarized, Nicaragua is now a police State. We, the Nicaraguan people, are fighting for our freedom. We are not asking the international community to solve our problems, but since our struggle is nonviolent, we need robust, international support in the form of targeted sanctions against human rights violators. We also need the swift implementation of the Nicaragua Human Rights and Anticorruption Act, the NICA Act. Without such support, Nicaragua is doomed to become another Venezuela. Effective international pressure requires coordinated action by key allies in the Western Hemisphere. It is unacceptable that some member States of the Organization of American States are supporting the tyranny of Ortega. The application of the Inter- American Democratic Charter is imperative to achieve democracy in Nicaragua. Ortega is a relic of the cold war and just like the Communist Party of Cuba and Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela, he embodies a legacy of oppression against dignity. The Nicaraguan people are ready for a new path. Last year, over 40 organizations from civil society and diverse political movements agreed on a common manifesto of national unity. This pro-democracy movement is ready to build a new Nicaragua. Your democratic solidarity will be instrumental in helping us achieve the freedom Nicaraguans deserve. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Mr. Maradiaga follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Sires. Thank you. Dr. Ponce, you are now recognized. STATEMENT OF CARLOS PONCE, DIRECTOR, LATIN AMERICAN PROGRAMS, VICTIMS OF COMMUNISM MEMORIAL FOUNDATION Mr. Ponce. Thanks, Mr. Chairman Sires and Ranking Member Rooney and other members. Thanks for keeping an eye on Nicaragua. Nicaragua is also on the map. It is not only about Venezuela, it is also Nicaragua, and the solution needs to set Nicaragua, Cuba, and Venezuela free. The massive popular uprising with youth/peasant/autoconvocados claiming democracy in Nicaragua last year was not a random political situation. The crisis has been in the making for decades. Daniel Ortega's failed Sandinista revolution, corruption, and economic disaster from 1971 to 1990, along with the negotiation of the international community that forced the autocrat to organize the first democratic election in 1990. That was the first time in 58 years that Nicaragua had a democratic elected government. Finally, Daniel Ortega was defeated after 11 years in power at that time. But Daniel Ortega continued his obsession with power. He was the candidate at the election in 1990, 1996, 2001, and he received only 30 percent of the votes in each one of those elections. But he became a major force behind an obstruction for the democratic government to rule the country. The corruption also from some of the governments that rule Nicaragua, particularly Aleman, drove Daniel Ortega into power again. The division of the principal political party allowed Daniel Ortega to win in 2006 only with 38 percent of the vote. Then the pact became in force between Aleman and Daniel Ortega allowing Daniel Ortega to control all the institutions, and to control the parliament. Only with 30 percent of the vote, Daniel Ortega controlled the parliament, controlled the judiciary, and became the force of change in Nicaragua. He controlled all the institutions and he began a process to re- elect himself. After numerous pressures against the regime, it agreed to have some negotiation for changing electoral rules in 2016, but he never fulfilled that commitment. So Daniel Ortega continued with his obsession with power. He has been ruling Nicaragua for 24 years and he has been in the opposition and ruling the country directly for four decades. After 30 years of in power, Daniel Ortega, dismantled the institutions, some groups began to organize themselves. Daniel Ortega's obsession with power led him to take control of some of the land to promote the inter-oceanic Canal. That forced the campesinos movement to begin a movement against Daniel Ortega, a revolt that became popular among Nicaraguans, and Daniel Ortega simply crushed the movement at that time. But the youth begins to feel there was no alternative for Nicaragua, and last year, after a major environmental crisis with the Parque el Indio and then with Daniel Ortega's effort to dismantle the social security, increasing social security tax and reducing benefits, Daniel Ortega created a major crisis. That crisis forced the youth movement to go to the streets and begin a massive demonstration and Daniel Ortega just crushed the demonstrations and began to kill students, youth, campesinos, and demonstrators using his militias and the police directly engaged in violence in the rest of the country. By that time, Ortega felt that he needed to negotiate and he called for a negotiation with the youth and the campesinos and he failed in his word for change in the situation in the country. Daniel Ortega has been manipulating the country and offering negotiations for many years. None of the opportunities in which Daniel Ortega offered negotiation has been working. Now Daniel Ortega is seeing 2021 as an opportunity. But if we allow Daniel Ortega to manipulate a negotiation and run again, Daniel Ortega will win the next election in 2021. Daniel Ortega has been supported by the business chamber (COSEP) and by the members of the private sector, so they need to get on board for a change, a real change in Nicaragua. We need to increase the pressure against the regime in Nicaragua. Even though the U.S. administration has been imposing sanctions against some of the members of regime, the family of Daniel Ortega, it has been only eight sanctions in all this time. And the NICA Act is not being implemented, waiting for some negotiation with Daniel Ortega. Unless we increase the pressure against Daniel Ortega's inner circle and his family, unless we begin to put pressure in the police and the military to increase the sanctions against them to motivate them to be a force of change, unless we create a major commitment from the rest of the country and the region to also impose sanctions against the regime, and also monitor the situation with the Organization of American States to prevent a bad negotiation with the regime, they are not going to bring an electoral change. But an electoral change is not going to bring a change into the country because the country will not change unless Ortega is taken out of power. And for an open, free, and democratic election, Ortega cannot be a candidate and cannot be in place when that election happen. We need to implement the NICA Act. I believe that Congress has an opportunity right now to force a change in Nicaragua with more sanctions and put in pressure for the regime to open the doors, not for a house arrest. It is time for Nicaragua to be free. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Mr. Ponce follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Sires. Thank you, Dr. Ponce. Now we will go to questions. You know, I was one of the sponsors, with Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, of the NICA Act, and obviously this effort was to reduce Ortega's access to foreign finance and impose sanctions on Nicaraguan officials responsible for human rights violation. I guess, Dr. Ponce, you do not believe that the NICA Act has been effective or--I wonder, what do you think, Dr. Ponce? Mr. Ponce. Yes. I believe that the NICA Act is effective, but we need to implement the NICA Act in full, not only eight sanctions. I believe we need to increment the pressure against the regime. We need to bring, also, members of the police into our sanction process. We need to include members of the military and some of the members of the business sector that have been collaborating with the Ortega regime. My view is that the Ortega regime has been using the negotiation to stop the sanction, trying to negotiate, liberating some--well, house arrest of some prisoners, and leaving the situation. Remember that Daniel Ortega has a close relationship also with Venezuela. Venezuela gave Daniel Ortega five billion dollars with Albanisa and other charities, so it is a country with all this problem involved. Mr. Sires. Mr. Vivanco? Mr. Vivanco. Mr. Chairman, the regime in Nicaragua is, I think, is fair to characterize, today, the government as a dictatorship and it is run by Mr. Ortega and his wife, the vice president. Based on the record of Ortega, it seems to me that Nicaragua is run today by a politician who is essentially a transactional one, somebody who might change his record based on the pressure exercised on him and his government, locally as well as by international community. I do believe that the Global Magnitsky law is a fantastic instrument to exercise pressure, not only on Nicaragua but a global level. And the fact that few members of that administration has been targeted last year is extremely important. Now last year, also, you passed a specific Magnitsky, or NICA Act for Nicaragua and that one is the law that is still pending for application. We do believe that the only way to make some meaningful progress in terms of transition to democracy in Nicaragua and respect for fundamental freedoms and human rights depends on in many ways on the international pressure and particularly the implementation of the specific NICA Act. Thank you. Mr. Sires. Mr. Maradiaga? Mr. Maradiaga. Mr. Chairman, one of the lessons learned from nonviolent movements around the world is that they can only be effective with robust international support. In this regard, the NICA Act is a fantastic example of how the international community can support such movements. And as Mr. Vivanco and Dr. Ponce has emphasized, this is a fantastic tool that has not been fully implemented. In addition to the NICA Act, it is important to emphasize the importance of coordination in the Western Hemisphere. I would like to highlight the fact that countries such as Honduras and Guatemala, for example, have been, in effect, blocking many of the activities inside the Organization of American States. We have other examples, the Government of Taiwan, for example, have provided a lifeline to the regime of Ortega of over $100 million. So it is not only the action of the United States, but we request the coordinated action of those countries that regard themselves as part of the free world; however, their actions are not compatible to what they are doing toward the Ortega regime. Mr. Sires. Thank you. Ranking Member Rooney. Mr. Rooney. Thank you, Chairman Sires. I appreciate that. I would like to ask Dr. Ponce first about your assessment. Given the fact you noted the need for more effective sanctions, what is your assessment of the opposition, their unity, their ability to bring about a democratic transition? Start with Dr. Ponce and then the others. Mr. Ponce. What we see in Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua is a dictatorship manual. They apply the same. They divided opposition by the opposition because some of the members of COSEP has been in bed with the regime, just because there is a golden opportunity or was a golden opportunity with $5 billion from Venezuela, with all the corruption, so it was a good opportunity. And some of the members of the opposition has been divided and some of them, the success with the pact with Aleman gave power to Daniel Ortega again. Daniel Ortega learned the lesson and he has been applying that. He even became Catholic, Evangelical, whatever. He has been transforming himself. He is a powerful guy and he will not leave power. The thing with the opposition, they need--yes, they are going to be divided. They are going to need to help also to consolidate the power in the countryside. We need to help the campesinos movement to become a major force. We need to help the youth to be more active again in Nicaragua and consolidate power in the countryside. We need to help the opposition also to consolidate political parties that are going to defeat all the forces behind Daniel Ortega in 2021. Daniel Ortega is organizing everything for 2021, but opposition is fighting against themselves. So it is an opportunity to strengthening. Mr. Rooney. If I might, you make an interesting point. I have heard from some people that I know there that the popularity of Ortega is much less outside of Managua and maybe Granada, and maybe is there an opportunity to exploit that? Mr. Ponce. We have several tools. Congress has been increasing the budget for Nicaragua, for democracy in Nicaragua. We have the sanctions in our hands. So is it time to implement those tools to support political parties, to support Alianza, to support the campesinos, to support the faith-based groups and the youth and the autoconvocados to begin a force in Nicaragua in the whole country. Mr. Rooney. OK. Professor Maradiaga? Also, can you also comment about this Taiwan thing? Imagine, if anybody needs a friend like the United States, you would think it would be Taiwan. I mean we need to just focus on that one more time if they gave all that money to Nicaragua. Mr. Maradiaga. Indeed. And that is an example of the double standards. It is very unfortunate. And with this Taiwan loan and some other similar support from the inter-American bank of integration, and also from the support of South Korea, basically Mr. Ortega has a liquidity for the rest of this year. So many of the efforts that the OAS is doing, that the U.S. Government is doing in a way are affected by this double standard. So that is why my emphasis on coordination, it is important. A comment on the opposition and I agree with Dr. Ponce, the manual is the same. These regimes have the mechanisms to make it close to impossible for the opposition to participate and that is why opposition, it is, I wouldn't say divided, but it is very difficult to function under political persecution, under arbitrary arrest, so there are some opposition members that pick tactics that are low risk in order to remain in the country. There are some other members of the opposition, myself included, that have taken some other risks and that is why we are in exile. Some of us are in prison. And the only solution to move toward a new path is to restore basic freedoms so a robust opposition can organize in Nicaragua. Mr. Rooney. OK. Dr. Vivanco? Mr. Vivanco. I am sorry. I do not have any comments about the unity of the opposition in Nicaragua. Mr. Rooney. Here, in the last couple of seconds then that I have, does anyone have any comment about the realistic opportunities we may have to strengthen this opposition then and the risk, the odds of their success? Dr. Ponce or Dr. Maradiaga? Mr. Maradiaga. The people of Nicaragua see Ortega as a tyrant of the past. And some people do not believe in the polls, but Ortega was quite popular some years ago, precisely because of five billion dollars is an amount that is unprecedented in Nicaragua history for a country of six million people, so he was able to do some stuff that brought a lot of people in Nicaragua. But going back to the polls, about one of every two Nicaraguans are waiting for a new path. Ortega has about 20 percent support. If we believe polls by, say, Gallup, and Victor Borge is another service in Nicaragua, so he is at his lowest point right now and the opposition has a fair chance. But the only way for the opposition to be effective is for the opposition to have the ability to move in the country, to organize. For the last 11 years, Daniel Ortega has declared any effective opposition group illegal. Many political parties have been declared illegal. So it is important to not only to have a snapshot of the opposition right now, but to understand that for 11 consecutive years being a true opposition in Nicaragua has been regarded a crime by Ortega. Mr. Rooney. Thank you very much. Thank you. Mr. Sires. Thank you. Congressman Levin. Mr. Levin. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for holding this really important hearing. I want to take a longer view. So far, I think we have gone back to 2018 here, but I want to ask you about how the U.S. can best be helpful here given our history. The U.S. occupied Nicaragua for over two decades a century ago, and then we supported the Somoza dictatorship which ruled Nicaragua completely undemocratically for over 40 years. And I, as I think a 19-year-old or 18-year-old college student, I remember when the Sandinistas overthrew the dictatorship, and in my office, I have a T-shirt quilt that includes one little T-shirt celebrating 1 year of freedom in Nicaragua, which feels like a very bittersweet T-shirt today. And then of course the United States supported the Contras in the 1980's, so the United States has not always been a friend of democracy in Nicaragua. And here we are today, with Ortega acting like a transactional, as you said, Mr. Vivanco, you know, strong man. It is so, so troubling. So I want to ask you, in particular--well, and let me say one more thing. You know, when I was a law student, Mr. Vivanco, I worked for your organization during my summer, first summer of law school in Haiti after Aristide was overthrown the first time, and wrote with one other researcher sort of a book- length report on the destruction of civil society in the aftermath of that overthrow. And so, I am not so interested in the opposition as, you know, my question is, how can the U.S. strengthen, sort of deal with this very problematic regime in a way that actually builds democracy and how can we support human rights organizations that are working there? I do not think you have said much about that. Maybe in your, you know, your testimony you submitted. But how can we provide support and resources to assist human rights defenders in civil society organizations that are obviously under threat, people being tortured and killed for their work, what can we do more to help them? Mr. Vivanco. Thank you very much, Congressman Levin, for your question. And, look, on the first point that you raise, which is the record of the U.S. in Nicaragua, and I will argue, in the whole region. Mr. Levin. Yes. Mr. Vivanco. Is not--is far from perfect, and on the contrary. Given the relationship of the government, of the U.S. Government, for instance, with the governments in South America like Chile, you know, and others, obviously it is a record that deserve obviously a serious scrutiny. And I agree with you about your assessment of the intervention in Nicaragua, historically, by the U.S. Government. Now we are in the 21st century and we are looking at the respect and promotion of fundamental freedoms and rights. We believe that those rights and freedoms are universal and they should be defended and promoted all over the world. I do believe that the U.S. Government today and this Congress in particular has a responsibility and leadership to play in coordination with other democracies in the world, particularly Europe and in Latin America. A multilateral approach to the case of Nicaragua could be much more effective. Mr. Maradiaga insisted about this point and I think he has a point in terms of urging this administration, ideally, the Trump administration, the State Department, to work multilaterally in terms of pressing the government for change and protecting civil society and NGO's and journalists who are trying to do their work. Mr. Levin. Well, my time is expired, but I just want to ask you before I end if you can share with me later particular ideas about how to, you know, which vehicles and which countries are active and, you know, I would be very much like to help in that effort. Mr. Vivanco. Delighted, thank you very much. Mr. Levin. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Sires. Congressman Guest. Mr. Guest. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Ponce, in your written testimony on page 3, under a couple different subheadings, one entitled, ``International Partners in Crime,'' and the other entitled, ``Uprisings in the Market,'' you list three countries that have a close relationship with Nicaragua, one being Cuba which you describe as ``Communist Cuba's influence is unmistakable.'' You talk about Russia providing the regime with weapons and expertise, and then you also talk about China and the Grand Interoceanic Canal. Could you expand on the role those three governments are playing in the Nicaragua Government at this time? Mr. Ponce. Yes, thank you, Congressman. In the case of Venezuela, five billion dollars, and Venezuela has been involved directly in the process of supporting the corruption in Nicaragua. Part of the payments to the public sector has been paid with money from Venezuela, Albanisa, and the U.S. has been sanction Albanisa for corruption, money laundering, and involvement in drug trafficking in Nicaragua. With China, China has been supporting, and China--well, it was a Chinese planning with Daniel Ortega major corruption with the Interoceanic Canal. And that there are information about Russia operating in Nicaragua, they have a building in Nicaragua and the people in Nicaragua say there are more than 200 Russian operating in Nicaragua, and there are some concerns about the weapons distributed by the Russians in Nicaragua. Russia has been providing for military arm and military weapons for the last five to 6 years to Nicaragua. Some of the people that I talk that have been in prison have been telling me that some of the people that are in--the older prisoners claim that they hear Cuban voices when they have been tortured in prison. And it makes sense because it is the same model of torture. If you see the torture in Venezuela, it is rape, it is sexual abuse, and different kind of structure that it is the same model implemented in Venezuela and in Nicaragua. The level of response of the management of the forces they have been repressing the civilians at the streets, it is this a military training. And some of the people have been saying that the Russian and the Cuban and the Venezuelan has been trained in military, but they bought a military, the groups who bought it that support Daniel Ortega directly with weapons. The weapons, when they began the repression, came to Nicaragua in matter of days. Several planes, some people in Nicaragua claim that Cuban planes and Venezuelan planes arrived to Nicaragua with weapons to a rainforest. They put all government violent groups in Nicaragua. Mr. Guest. And just very briefly also about the Chinese investment and Nicaragua. We have got and we have seen in the past and had hearings on the Belt and Road Initiative where China is investing in developing countries, and we are seeing that in Venezuela, are we not? Excuse me, in Nicaragua, are we not? Mr. Ponce. In Nicaragua, China is not so active apart from the Canal because Taiwan has been supporting more the Government of Nicaragua. Taiwan has been a major provider of support of Nicaragua. The Chinese has been acting in Nicaragua, but not as active as in Venezuela. Mr. Guest. And then, finally, you talked about if Ortega is allowed to run he will be re-elected, and you talk about the need for additional sanctions. Do you believe if additional sanctions are imposed that we will see someone else step forward and run for president, if, in fact, those sanctions were, in fact, imposed by our government? Mr. Ponce. The problem with the sanctions right now is we only impose sanctions to the inner circle of Daniel Ortega, Daniel Ortega's wife, Daniel Ortega kids, also and the people that work with Daniel Ortega. We are not expanding the sanctions to members of the police that were part of the repression, member of the military who were part for inaction or direct action against the civilians in Nicaragua. And we feel and we see that how the regime has been reacting to the sanctions. They are desperate every time that the U.S. impose any sanctions, they asking for lifting the sanctions. In the negotiation with the alliance that is one of the first topic in the negotiation, lifting the sanction. Yes, I do believe that more sanctions in Nicaragua will be effective. Listen, we are not asking, any of the witness, nobody is asking for intervention. Nobody is asking for anything. We are asking for sanctions and economic support and technical support to the opposition to be more effective in terms of getting rid of this regime, this terrible regime. Mr. Guest. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Mr. Sires. Congressman Espaillat. Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Maradiaga, you told us that there are nation-States in the Organization of American States that are clearly supportive of Nicaragua and what is going on right now. Could you tell us who they are for the record? Mr. Maradiaga. Yes, sir. Most of these are Caribbean States who remain very close to the Petrocaribe arrangement, so---- Mr. Espaillat. Can you tell us their names? Mr. Maradiaga. With all due respect, I do not have the name of particular eight Caribbean islands that--but they are part of the CARICOM, you know, and I apologize for not having precisely the names of those States. But if I may add, what is particularly worrisome is neighboring States, particularly Honduras and Guatemala because many of these island States of the Caribbean have argued that if neighboring States are not taking concrete actions, it is difficult for them--and of course this is an excuse--it is difficult for them to take action. So we believe it is important to emphasize that Honduras and Guatemala should be on the right side of history by supporting the OAS. Mr. Espaillat. So, please, if you can give us that list for the record, whenever you can on who those---- Mr. Maradiaga. I will immediately do so after the hearing, yes. Mr. Espaillat. OK. Dr. Ponce, you said that the problem has been that we have only applied Magnitsky Act sanctions on the immediate Ortega clan, right. Are you willing to give us a list of names of some of those other folks that you feel should get Magnitsky Act sanctions, with some level of background on why they should? Mr. Ponce. Yes, of course. I have been providing names for the last 3 years, even for the first one, Rivas, and some proof about some of these people. I believe that some other people from close to the regime need also to be included in the sanction, and knowing that we can lift the sanctions as soon as they collaborate with a democratic solution in Nicaragua. I can provide that. Mr. Espaillat. My next question is, although there has been a major crisis in Nicaragua, there has not been a migration crisis that have shown up at our southern border, like, for example, the number of Hondurans or the numbers of Guatemalans that show up at our borders due to violence and situations impacting Central America. Is there a migration crisis in Nicaragua and where are they showing up? Anybody? Mr. Maradiaga. If I may, historically, Nicaragua are an exception in terms of migration patterns. In comparison to neighboring Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala, Nicaraguans tend to migrate to Costa Rica. So yes, there is---- Mr. Espaillat. How many have gone to Costa Rica? Mr. Maradiaga. Officially, over 80,000, which it is unprecedented numbers for a country of the size of Nicaragua. However, for the very first time in many, many years, we are seeing significant numbers of Nicaraguans at the U.S. border seeking for asylum. Mr. Espaillat. Thank you. TPS, I am supportive of TPS for Nicaraguans. The Trump administration has not been as supportive as the courts have weighed in. Given the crisis which is further aggravated by the shutting down of hotels, restaurant, stores, even like street vendors, right, which has led to a substantial number of folks being unemployed further fueling the crisis, first, could you tell me what you feel about the crackdown or the shutdown of these small businesses and what you also feel about the Trump administration's hardcore stance on extending TPS for Nicaragua? Anybody from the panel. Mr. Maradiaga. If I may, the TPS is a fundamental need for Nicaragua for various reasons. Mr. Espaillat. So you support it? Mr. Maradiaga. Yes, yes. And I will also add my appreciation to the Nicaraguan diaspora, to Nicaraguan Americans who have been fundamental to the struggle of democracy for Nicaragua. In the case of Nicaragua, there is an interesting and very substantive characteristic of Nicaraguan migrants. Most of Nicaraguan migrants want to return to Nicaragua. And we have done research on this. This is an exception to other migrant groups. So if we reestablish democracy in Nicaragua, also the immigration issue will be tackled. Mr. Espaillat. What about small businesses, anything? Mr. Maradiaga. In the terms of small businesses, this is a clear example of the violations of human rights. About 35 small businesses have been closed recently including pharmacies, including supermarkets because they closed their shops in protest to the Ortega regime as part of the nonviolent struggle. Mr. Espaillat. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Sires. Congressman Yoho. Mr. Yoho. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate you all being here. Mr. Vivanco, the crimes you highlighted at the beginning are hideous in nature. Those that committed the horrendous charges of violence, did they act independent of Ortega's government or could they have acted independently and survived Ortega's authoritarianism? Mr. Vivanco. No. According to the--our evidence and evidence that we are actually going to include in a forthcoming report about atrocities committed by security forces as well as pro-government groups that works jointly with those security forces, there is no chance that those atrocities could have been committed without the approval and endorsement of the government at the highest level. Mr. Yoho. OK. And I think we can conclude the crimes could not have been orchestrated or carried out without the direct involvement of Daniel Ortega's knowledge and/or approval. That would be correct with all of you, right? Mr. Maradiaga. Yes. Mr. Yoho. All right. I have a report here from the U.N. High Commissioner of Human Rights. The Ortega administration repressed these demonstrators back when, they repressed the demonstrators before the elections. In August 2018, then United Nations High Commissioner of Human Rights, Zeid Ra'ad Al Hussein, asserted the violence and repression seen in Nicaragua since demonstrations began in April are products of the systematic erosion of human rights over the years and highlighted the overall fragility of the institutions and rule of law. The U.N. comes out and says that, but nothing gets done. The OAS still trades with Nicaragua. We entered an FTA with the Caribbean nations, Dominican Republic and the Central American nations. My question is, why are we still trading with somebody like this? Why in the heck do the civilized free world tolerate people like Daniel Ortega? I mean we are all against what he does. We are all against what he says. We see these actions. The U.N. goes down there and they talk about all these atrocities, yet everything goes on. Human trafficking is going on, smuggling and drugs, the repression, the torture that you guys brought up. In the civilized world we do not tolerate these things. What can we do different? We have invested hundreds of millions of dollars since, you know, over the decades in Nicaragua. And it goes for good governance, rule of law, economic development--I want to know where in the hell it is for my American taxpayers. I want to know where it is for the people of Nicaragua. That 80,000 that you said fled to Costa Rica, what time period was that? Mr. Maradiaga. That was since May of last year and now numbers have been probably much higher. Mr. Yoho. Sure, they are going to go up higher. Mr. Maradiaga. But if I may, sir, go back to your question, you are absolutely correct. The generosity of the United States after the civil war in Nicaragua has been tremendous in building civil society, helping build a human rights community. And when you ask where are those people, most of them are in prison or in exile. And that is why Mr. Ortega labels these people as terrorists because they are sending investment in terms of training in human rights, civil society that has been disregarded by Ortega. Mr. Yoho. But we in the free world need to wake up, because what we have is--we have got Nicaragua. You have got the failed regime of Hugo Chavez carried out through Maduro. We have got what is going in Cuba. We have got Russian interference in the Western Hemisphere. And, basically, they are all Communist nations that are operating in the Western Hemisphere and there was a time in this country where we would not tolerate that and I think we need to go back. If we are serious about what we said and if we really want to bring an end to this and get some stability and empower the people of those countries--China is over there doing whatever they are doing. I am over time, are not I? No, it is still going. I am on yellow. I looked at the wrong one. And China is over there. And if we are going to do this, let's do it right. And I want to know and I would love to have an hour conversation with all of you, what do we need to do different that we have not done? I mean, we know what causes good societies. It is rule of law, honoring human rights and things like that and we all talk about it, but we do not do it. I, for one, recommend that we get rid of trade with Nicaragua. Let them trade with China. That will work out well for them. Maybe they can build a dam like they did in Ecuador. I think we just need to have some strong talk and follow through with it and stop playing the games and having--and God bless you for coming up here talking about human rights and all that. We agree in that. We believe in that. And we need to come together as civilized nations and say enough is enough. I do not have any other questions. I just appreciate you all being here. Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman. Congressman Meeks. Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me start out by with what Mr. Levin said, because our hand and how we have dealt in the Western Hemisphere, particularly in Central and South America, is not clean where we have supported dictators and others when it was in our interests. So in listening and I do have concerns about what is taking place there, but if we were to withdraw all of the aid and everything else that we give to Nicaragua, will that make things better for the people of Nicaragua? That is my first question. Mr. Vivanco? Mr. Vivanco. Congressman Meeks, no, I am not advocating for some broad sanctions that might have an impact on the conditions, living conditions of the Nicaraguans. What I am advocating for and I am a strong believer is on targeted sanctions. And everything else in my experience, working for over 30 years on human rights issues in Latin America, is that what usually works is engagement not isolation. Engagement, but with conditions, with strings attached. Mr. Meeks. So I am with you on that. So what puzzles me at times with where we go, I am trying to think of a time in the Western Hemisphere where unilateral sanctions worked. There was not an engagement on that, you know, working with other countries and in the area. Has there been a time where unilateral sanctions worked which is, I think, being advocated here? Any one of you, in the Western Hemisphere has there been any time that you can recall, because I am trying to---- Mr. Maradiaga. I will argue that Nicaragua is a perfect example in the 1980's. We saw one of the most bloody civil wars in Nicaraguan and Latin American history and we actually saw how U.S. sanctions brought Nicaragua back to democracy in 1990. I will also argue that the fact that Nicaragua and Ortega in particular was outside of the radar for many, many years made the problem to emerge again. Mr. Meeks. OK, because I was trying to see, you know, I know that when you talk about Nicaragua and you talk about a number of the scenarios, particularly back when President Reagan was around, we did some unscrupulous things there. And I, you know, and so we are still paying for that to a large degree. And so I was straining to think of where is, can you tell me where the other countries are like, you know, folks from the OAS, are they, you know, agreeing in the same methods, you know, or is this still just a unilateral sanctions area for the United States of America? Because and the other piece is, what I am trying to--because I am for democracy also, not just for regime change. So I want to know where is, where the U.S. has required regime change has resulted in a democratic government with human rights, et cetera, when it is just the United States particularly by itself. Mr. Maradiaga. Please allow me to say that Nicaraguans believe that the mistakes of the past cannot be an impediment for the current exercise of the U.S. leadership in promoting human rights. And I will also insist on the importance of multilateral actions. In this regard I would like to publicly appreciate, first of all, the leadership of Ambassador Carlos Trujillo, U.S. Ambassador to the OAS, but also other missions to the OAS such as the mission of Colombia, Argentina, Chile, and many others who are with us in this collective effort. Mr. Meeks. And that is, you know, tremendously important, I think, to make sure that when I am talking, when I hear conversations about sanctions, et cetera, that has got to be a multilateral level. The one time that I know when sanctions was very strong was in South Africa. The United States was last to come on board, but it was multilateral. It was everybody. But if you just do it in an individual basis, it does not seem to me to be quite as effective. Also, what my concern is--I guess I am out of time--is someone, I do not know, one of you has said that if there was elections that happened today that Ortega would get reelected. That is a concern because I do want to make sure that, you know, though, that the people's voices are heard and that we just do not overturn an election because the people voted for someone that we did not want to vote unless we are talking about an election that was committed under fraud. I am out of time, so I yield back. Mr. Sires. Congressman Phillips. Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you to our witnesses. Since the Trump administration we are seeing a massive decline in our foreign assistance around the world, particularly in the Western Hemisphere. I think that compromises both our national security and certainly the security and safety of the residents of the countries in question. The administration is proposing a 40 percent reduction in assistance this year to only $6 million. Money is not always the answer alone. My question for each of you, starting with you, Mr. Vivanco, is what are the best practices as you have seen our country practice around the world in similar circumstances and what level of funding, in your estimation, is appropriate to effect what is in our best interest? Mr. Vivanco. Congressman Phillips, I think the key is to make sure that there is always enough resources available to support civil society, to strengthening the rule of law, the independence of the judiciary, to press, press countries that have an undemocratic structure and record to reform its legislation to allow for real checks and balance on the executive. So all of those goals should be always be present in the U.S. foreign policy and should be supported with sufficient resources. Mr. Phillips. And, sir, where you have seen us effect that effectively? Mr. Vivanco. Well, there are many examples in Latin America. I think the U.S., you know, across, you know, we are looking into the--from the 1990's up today, there are good examples of--in Chile, for instance, in Peru, reforms that allows for more transparency and it strengthens rule of law, including Colombia, I think, is a good example. Colombia is not a perfect example. There are many problems there, still, but there have been some, I would say, conscientious effort to support the rule of law and the independent judiciary in that country. I wish that we could have better examples, let's say, in Central America and including Mexico, but unfortunately the record is pretty poor. Mr. Phillips. I appreciate it. Mr. Maradiaga? Mr. Maradiaga. I will emphasize in five key best practices. These are not all, but just a quick summary. Funding the strengthening of civil society particularly independent human rights organizations; supporting the free press; civic education of youth particularly of underrepresented minorities such as indigenous communities and women; technical support to electoral systems; and anticorruption and transparency initiatives. Mr. Phillips. And where do you think we have effected those initiatives well? Mr. Maradiaga. I think that the work particularly of agencies such as USAID in the case of Nicaragua has been fantastic. Precisely what we see when we saw hundreds of students asking for democracy, women asking for democracy, and something impressive which are faith-based organizations working along leaders of the LGBT community, for example, working together for the same objectives. That does not come out of magic. That is the result of many, many years building inclusive civil society. And I will take also time to appreciate the support of U.S. taxpayers in supporting civil society in Nicaragua. Mr. Phillips. And do you have a sense of what is an appropriate level of funding? Six million dollars, I trust, cannot accomplish that. Mr. Maradiaga. I think it is of course a very, very small number in comparison to what the U.S. has invested in other nations of the world. That was about--that is less than 25 percent of the support that Nicaragua used to have in the early 1990's. Mr. Phillips. Thank you. Doctor? Mr. Ponce. Yes. I disagree. I believe that some of the assistance that has been going to the region has been plagued by rent seeking, 50, 60 percent of the money stay here in the U.S. to pay for the organizations. Organizations charge 20, 30 percent. It is about fighting for the foreign assistance to maintain a high level, but also begins to request also from the implementers to fulfill some impact and measure by impact. Six million dollars in Nicaragua can be a good amount of money, but the problem if we take away 50 percent, 60 percent of the money to maintain the organizations here in Washington, DC, we are not making a major favor to the assistance that we are providing for democracy and human rights in the region. Mr. Phillips. Thank you, sir. I am out of time, I yield back. Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman. I have one question. You know, I always read about the power behind the presidency which is supposed to be Ortega's wife. Is that accurate? How much say does she have in the country? Mr. Maradiaga. That is absolutely accurate and there is a very sad episode that really explains part of that and this is in the public record and has been widely documented, the rape of Ortega's stepdaughter. And when Ms. Zoilamerica came out publicly to denounce the rape, Rosario Murillo supported Daniel Ortega; then Daniel Ortega would be absolute history if that particular crime would have been taken into justice. But Rosario Murillo supported Daniel Ortega clearly in exchange for a piece of the pie. And that is how the Ortega family sees Nicaragua, as a pie that they share among their inner circle. Mr. Sires. Anybody else have any other---- Mr. Ponce. Yes, I was detained and I was expelled from Nicaragua by a direct order of Rosario Murillo. And when the Ambassador tried to negotiate, Rosario Murillo directly say, ``I am the one who rules the country here.'' So it is also a problem that Daniel Ortega manage some of the negotiations, the peak negotiation, but she is in control of the operation of the government. She is in control of the violence. She is in control of major things in the country and she sees herself as a major power behind Daniel Ortega. And as Felix said, talking with Zoilamerica, Zoilamerica talks about the corruption and how she maintained the whole structure of corruption behind Daniel Ortega too. Mr. Sires. So if Daniel Ortega steps down, do you think she runs for president? Mr. Ponce. I believe that Daniel Ortega will try to run again. And if not, she will try to run. They will maintain-- they want immunity, impunity, and also maintain control. This couple has been in power directly or indirectly for four decades in Nicaragua, so they are not going to leave as easy as we want. Mr. Sires. Well, this has been a very interesting hearing and I want to thank you for coming. We keep reading about Nicaragua. We keep reading about some other countries in the region, but Nicaragua is now standing out. And I was hopeful that other countries, like Guatemala, were going in the right direction, but now they seem to have taken a step back. And it is very disheartening when you push as I do for the Western Hemisphere that they take a step forward and then they take two or three steps back, and you have to constantly defend that we have to get more involved in the Western Hemisphere. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you all for being here today for this important hearing. The crisis in Nicaragua continues at the hands of the Ortega regime. I want to reiterate my support for the Nicaraguan people and their tireless effort to fight for democracy. I thank our witnesses for being here today and with that I adjourn the hearing. [Whereupon, at 11:21 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] APPENDIX [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]