[House Hearing, 116 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] VOTING RIGHTS AND ELECTION ADMINISTRATION IN NORTH CAROLINA ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON ELECTIONS COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION ---------- APRIL 18, 2019 ---------- Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available on the Internet: https://www.govinfo.gov/committee/house-administration __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 38-117 PDF WASHINGTON : 2019 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- C O N T E N T S ---------- APRIL 18, 2019 Page Voting Rights and Election Administration in North Carolina...... 1 OPENING STATEMENTS Chairwoman Marcia L. Fudge....................................... 1 Prepared statement of Chairwoman Fudge....................... 3 Hon. G.K. Butterfield............................................ 5 Prepared statement of Hon. Butterfield....................... 7 WITNESSES Mr. Irving L. Joyner, Professor of Law, North Carolina Central University..................................................... 10 Prepared statement of Prof. Joyner........................... 12 Mr. Tomas Lopez, Executive Director, Democracy North Carolina.... 34 Prepared statement of Mr. Lopez.............................. 36 Rev. Dr. William Barber II, President and Senior Lecturer, Repairers of the Breach........................................ 91 Prepared statement of Dr. Barber............................. 93 Hon. Dan Blue, Senate Minority Leader, North Carolina State Senate......................................................... 111 Prepared statement of Senator Blue........................... 113 Ms. Caitlin Swain, Co-Director, Forward Justice.................. 115 Prepared statement of Ms. Swain.............................. 117 Hon. Patricia Timmons-Goodson, Vice Chair, U.S. Commission on Civil Rights................................................... 129 Prepared statement of Hon. Timmons-Goodson................... 131 SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD Kristin R. Scott, Board of Elections Director, Halifax County, North Carolina, statement...................................... 142 North Carolina's Racial Politics: Dred Scott Rules from the Grave, Irving L. Joyner, article............................... 143 Report, An Assessment of Minority Voting Rights Access in the United States: 2018 Statutory Enforcement Report, United States Commission on Civil Rights..................................... 212 FIELD HEARING: VOTING RIGHTS AND ELECTION ADMINISTRATION IN NORTH CAROLINA ---------- THURSDAY, APRIL 18, 2019 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Elections, Committee on House Administration, Washington, DC. The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:15 a.m., at the Centre at Halifax Community College, 200 College Dr., Weldon, North Carolina 27890, Hon. Marcia L. Fudge [Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding. Present: Representatives Marcia L. Fudge and G.K. Butterfield. Staff Present: Jamie Fleet, Majority Staff Director; Sarah Nasta, Elections Counsel; Eddie Flaherty, Director of Operations; Veleter Mazyck, Chief of Staff; Meredith Connor, Professional Staff Member; David Tucker, Senior Counsel and Parliamentarian; Peter Whippy, Communications Director; Mannal Haddad, Majority Press Secretary; and Courtney Parella, Minority Communications Director. Chairwoman Fudge. Again, good morning, everyone. Our third panelist is on his way in, but we do need to begin. The Subcommittee on Elections of the Committee on House Administration will come to order. I would like to thank the Members of the Subcommittee and my colleagues from the House who are here with us today, as well as our witnesses and all those in the audience, for being here today. I ask unanimous consent that Members have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and that written statements be made part of the record. Hearing no objection, so ordered. Our third witness has arrived, so we will let him take his seat. Good morning, my friend. Good morning again. I want to thank Mr. Butterfield, our witnesses, and the people of North Carolina for joining us here today. I want to thank my distinguished colleague again, Mr. Butterfield, for so warmly welcoming us to his district as we continue this important work. Congressman Butterfield has a long and exemplary record protecting the right to vote, and I am so grateful for the leadership he shows with our Committee. We are here to examine the state of voting rights and election administration in North Carolina. I cannot think of a better place to continue our hearings to ensure that all Americans can exercise their right to vote. The right to vote is the core of what it means to participate in our democracy. The power of the ballot sets the direction for our communities, our families, and our lives. When the Supreme Court struck down a core provision of the Voting Rights Act in 2013, Chief Justice Roberts wrote nonetheless that, and I quote, ``Voting discrimination still exists, no one doubts that.'' Two months later, legislators in North Carolina proved that point. They rushed through an omnibus piece of legislation known by many as the monster law that slashed a week of early voting, mandated an overly restrictive form of photo ID that African Americans disproportionately lack, eliminated same-day voter registration, ended the counting of out-of-precinct ballots, and eliminated preregistration for 16- and 17-year- olds. Fortunately, that same day, when the Governor's signature was barely dry, a group of North Carolinians sued, and they put in years of work. They organized and they won. As we are likely to hear this morning, a unanimous three-judge panel for the Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit found that the challenge provisions of the monster law were unconstitutional, a violation of the 14th Amendment, and a violation of what remains of the Voting Rights Act. The Fourth Circuit found that the new provisions targeted African Americans, and again I quote, ``with almost surgical precision and clearly enacted with discriminatory intent.'' And so those challenged provisions of the law were blocked. We have with us today people from North Carolina who are leaders, fighters in the cause of justice. We are going to learn how much more we must do to ensure voting remains free and fair in North Carolina. This hearing and the others we are holding will help as the Congress of the United States examines what must be done to ensure every eligible American can vote and have that vote counted. I would now yield to my colleague Mr. Butterfield for his opening remarks. [The statement of Chairwoman Fudge follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Butterfield. Let me thank you, Chairwoman Marcia Fudge, for your friendship, and thank you for your leadership, and thank you certainly for your willingness to bring this field hearing to northeastern North Carolina. When we first had the conversation about the location for this hearing, I told Marcia that my preference was Halifax County, because it is a very dear county to me, but in the interest of convenience, since Raleigh-Durham was pretty close to the airport, it may be nice to have it at the NCCU School of Law. And so I gave her the option of those two locations, and she emphatically said, we need to go to Halifax County, North Carolina. And so, thank you so much for your willingness to bring this hearing to this location. Thank you to the panelists for your willingness to share your valuable testimony today that will weigh heavily in future legislation to protect the right to vote. Now, I know my colleagues are laser-focused on the developments in Washington today as the Mueller report is being made available to the Congress and to the public. Immediately following this field hearing, I will quickly--and I am sure other Members will as well--obtain a copy of the report and read it from cover to cover. Attorney General Barr has a solemn obligation, as Attorney General, to provide the American people with definitive answers about the President's conduct and whether President Donald Trump violated the trust that the American people have reposed in him. This report today contains the answers the American people deserve to see. Madam Chairwoman, Halifax County is a significant portion of my Congressional district. As a Superior Court judge for some 15 years, I held dozens of weeks of court in this county. In fact, my last week presiding before going to Washington was in this county. My relationship with Halifax dates back for many, many years. My mother and her sister taught at the Rosa Wall School here. Her brother, my uncle, was the principal of the Weldon Graded School, which is right down the street. My uncle, my dear uncle, was pastor here for 64 long years. And so, as a young lawyer I found myself entangled in dozens of cases in this county, including representation of Mr. Horace Johnson in a Section 2 case of Johnson v. County of Halifax, which dismantled at-large commissioner districts and resulted in the creation of districts that have now elected four African-American commissioners out of seven, one of which is here today, the chairman of the Board of Commissioners, Mr. Vernon Bryant. I might add that the NAACP Legal Defense Fund was the lead counsel in the case--I did not have the resources--was the lead counsel in the case and provided all the resources. I am proud of Halifax County, I am proud to be their Representative, and I am proud to have this hearing today. Finally, Madam Chairwoman, when slavery ended there were 10,300 slaves here in Halifax County. Almost 7,000 slaves lived across the river in Northampton County. The former slaves became registered voters. They elected African Americans to the legislature from this county, elected African Americans to the Board of Commissioners, and in 1882 an African American was elected to Congress from this county who served for two terms. His name was James Edward O'Hara from the town of Enfield. The ability to vote was taken away from African Americans in 1900 with the passage of the literacy test. The literacy test was nullified by the enactment of the 1965 Voting Rights Act. I might add very briefly that part of the legislative record for the Voting Rights Act emanated from Northampton County, right across the river. A lady named Louise Lassiter from Seaboard presented herself to register to vote in that county, was denied the right to register because she could not read nor write. She retained an attorney from Weldon here. His name was James Walker. Walker retained Sam Mitchell, who was a black lawyer from Raleigh. Those two lawyers litigated the case all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court challenging the literacy test. Though they lost that case, it laid the legislative record that was used for the enactment of the 1965 Voting Rights Act. Hearings like this are critically important in the legislative process. Since 1965, black citizens in this county have become politically active, but there continue to be obstacles that remain, which I am sure the witnesses will discuss today. Most notable is the fact that only one--one--early voting site serves this entire county. Halifax County is a persistent poverty county with a poverty rate of 28 percent, with one of eight households without transportation. And so, Madam Chairwoman, this hearing is very important as we prepare to take up legislation to guarantee the unfettered right to vote to every American. We are determined--yes, we are--we are determined to fix Section 4 of the Voting Rights Act, hopefully with bipartisan support, which was invalidated by the Court. Prior to the Supreme Court decision, 40 counties in North Carolina and the State legislature were required to submit voting changes to the Department of Justice for preclearance, thus preventing discriminatory changes in election law and procedure. Not having the benefit now of Section 5, affected communities must now resort to very expensive litigation or suffer the effects of the discriminatory voting change. This Subcommittee must build a record to provide the legislative basis for the passage of strong voting rights protections and amending Section 4 of the Voting Rights Act to meet the concerns of the Supreme Court. I want to thank you, Madam Chairwoman, for your time, thank you for your friendship, and I am prepared to hear from these witnesses. [The statement of Mr. Butterfield follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Fudge. Thank you very much, Mr. Butterfield. It is now my pleasure to introduce our witnesses for today. First we have Professor Irving Joyner, Professor of Law at North Carolina Central University School of Law, a leader in this State on the cause of voting rights, the rule of law, and the Constitution. Mr. Tomas Lopez, a leader with Democracy North Carolina, whose organization is on the front lines of protecting the right to vote. Last but not least, Dr. Reverend Barber, who is my good friend--thank you, nice to see you, sir--President and Senior Lecturer with Repairers of the Breach, whose moral leadership and activism has inspired generations of people in this State to push back against North Carolina's voter suppression and so much more. Mr. Joyner, we will begin with you. You will have five minutes. There is a lighting system. When the light is green, obviously that means go; when it turns yellow, you will have about a minute left; and when it turns red, I would ask for you to try to close. Thank you, sir. You are recognized. STATEMENTS OF IRVING L. JOYNER, PROFESSOR OF LAW, NORTH CAROLINA CENTRAL UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW; TOMAS LOPEZ, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, DEMOCRACY NORTH CAROLINA; AND REV. DR. WILLIAM BARBER II, PRESIDENT AND SENIOR LECTURER, REPAIRERS OF THE BREACH STATEMENT OF IRVING L. JOYNER Mr. Joyner. Thank you for this opportunity to appear before you, Chairwoman Fudge; Congressman Butterfield. I want to thank you for coming here and giving me the opportunity to come to Halifax County again. I want to stop in Halifax County for this purpose rather than just driving through it on my way to D.C. Let me just introduce myself. I am a Professor at North Carolina Central University School of Law. I chair the North Carolina NAACP Legal Redress Committee, and I have served as its legal counsel and have engaged in research in this voting rights area, as well as engaged in litigation of voting rights issues here in this State. As a people, the most important right that we have is the right to vote. It is beyond dispute that voting is of the most fundamental significance under our Constitutional structure. Other rights, even the most basic, are illusory if the right to vote is undermined. I have submitted a statement to this panel already, along with a law review article that I prepared a couple years ago for the Duke Journal of Constitutional Law and Public Policy, which discusses much of the history dealing with voting rights in North Carolina. I am just going to kind of scan through that since I only have five minutes. Up until 1835, free Africans in this State could vote as a matter of law, and they could vote up until the time that the General Assembly made a decision that they were going to disenfranchise those free Africans from voting. The free Africans who owned property in the State who qualified otherwise as voters could vote, and there was a decision made by members of the General Assembly that they did not want African Americans at that time to vote, because they feared what they called Negro domination. Even though no records indicate that any African American had been elected to any office, the mere fact that they were voting was just too much for members of the General Assembly, who adopted the notion--and later confirmed in the Dred Scott decision--that this American democracy and its Founders never intended that people of color would be citizens or would be able to vote. There was an intentional decision made at that time to disenfranchise African Americans. Representative Butterfield has already talked about the Reconstruction governments in which African Americans could vote. Following 1868, with the development of a new Constitution in North Carolina, led by Abraham Galloway and others, the right to vote was enshrined in the North Carolina Constitution, giving to African Americans the right to participate on equal grounds with Whites in the vote. From 1868 until 1898, that right was observed. Although there was a lot of violence, a lot of pressure and harassment directed toward those African Americans who could vote, 90 percent of our community registered and regularly participated in the process up until that time. In 1898, the General Assembly made decisions to intentionally disenfranchise those individuals from the right to vote. The literacy test, poll taxes, and a number of other devices were put in place that took away from African Americans deliberately and intentionally, because they wanted to avoid the possibility of what was then described as ``Negro Domination'' of whites, where African Americans would be lording over whites. So there was an intentional decision made at that time. In 1947, Kenneth Williams, Reverend Kenneth Williams in Winston-Salem, became the first African American to be elected to a city council position in that city. It was a single-member district in which an African American ran against a white, and for the first time in history African Americans were able to elect a member of their own. After that, there was an intentional decision to get rid of the right to vote by multi- member districts and at-large campaigns that Representative Butterfield spoke to. I am going to stop. My time is up. And I will be available to answer any questions that you have. [The statement of Mr. Joyner follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Fudge. Thank you very much. We will have questions after all the panelists speak. Mr. Lopez, you are recognized for five minutes. STATEMENT OF TOMAS LOPEZ Mr. Lopez. Madam Chairwoman, Representative Butterfield, thank you for being here and for the opportunity to testify. My name is Tomas Lopez, and I am the Executive Director of Democracy North Carolina. We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization that works to, among other goals, protect the right to vote in this State. As part of this work, we seek to bring North Carolinians, especially historically underrepresented people of color, into the political process and encourage their participation and leadership through voting, elections monitoring, and issue advocacy. We also advocate for policies and practices that we believe will increase voter access and participation, author original research on election administration, and help coordinate a statewide nonpartisan poll monitoring and voter assistance network that staffed 1 in 10 North Carolina polling places in 2018. Prior to my role here, I was a voting rights attorney at the Brennan Center for Justice, where I litigated voting rights cases in the Federal courts, contributed to original research on election issues, and supported State-level election reform efforts. My written testimony speaks to a consistent, concerted, years-long effort to limit voter participation and impact in North Carolina for the sake of short-term political advantage. That includes things like the 2013 monster law. I want to focus my comments here on a more recent development, and that is the impact of efforts to revive elements of the 2013 law, namely through a revived photo ID requirement and through recent reductions to early voting. As to the ID requirement, last year, in 2018, the North Carolina General Assembly placed onto the ballot a measure that requires photo ID to vote. It was broadly worded, did not provide specifics as to what kind of ID would be required, and no word of what kind of ID would be required was provided prior to the referendum in which it was put into place. Following that election but prior to the seating of a new General Assembly where there was no longer a supermajority, the legislators put in place an ID requirement that looks very similar in wording to the original law from 2013 that was overturned in 2016. A key difference in that law, or at least a surface-level difference in that law, is that this new law provides for the use of student and employee IDs for voting. The problem that has been emerging in practice is that while the law says that you can use student IDs to vote, what we have seen is that, as written, the law requires universities, colleges, and community colleges to attest under penalty of perjury as to citizenship verification, imposes administrative challenges that have discouraged campuses from applying, and has led to a situation where there are a total of 37 community colleges, colleges, and universities out of over 100 eligible institutions that have even applied to get their student IDs to be usable in 2020. And of those, 11 campuses were denied, including the 10 constituent universities of the University of North Carolina system, which include the flagship in Chapel Hill and one Historically Black College. The General Assembly is considering legislation that would modify these requirements, including by lifting the attestation requirement. That measure passed the State House, but it is unclear what will happen with it in the Senate. The second issue I want to raise is early voting. Last year, in June, the State legislature passed a law, SB 325, that requires counties to stage early voting for the same hours across all sites. And while uniformity presents theoretical benefits, it has in practice reduced the availability of early voting. What happened in the past was counties, especially in low- resourced areas, made early voting available at different times across a variety of locations during the early voting window, but the 2018 law makes this impossible by requiring counties that are early voting sites to be open for the same amount of hours if they are open during the week. So what has happened is that the most popular way to cast a ballot in North Carolina, which is before election day through early voting, is less available. We have 43 counties reducing the number of early voting sites in 2018 compared to the last midterm, 51 that have reduced the number of weekend days offered, 67 that have reduced the number of weekend hours. In 8 counties where a majority of voters are black, 4 have reduced sites, 7 have reduced weekend days, and all 8 reduced the number of weekend hours during early voting, and none saw increases in sites or weekend options. Now, this map up here shows Halifax County. In 2012, 2014, and 2016 there were three early voting sites here, in Roanoke Rapids, Halifax, and Scotland Neck. After the 2018 law required this uniformity, we are left with just with an early voting site in Halifax. Last year's midterm election had very high turnout. It was across the State, across all demographic groups, dramatic increases. There were only three counties that actually reduced turnout. Two were counties that were directly affected by Hurricane Florence in pretty dramatic ways and the other was Halifax County. We see as a whole the cumulative effects. I realize my time is running here. The experience in North Carolina across these issues and the set of things that we will be talking about this morning speak for Congress to do two things. First is to restore the full protections of the Voting Rights Act in a way that is responsive to the way in which voting discrimination happens today. The second is to ensure, like legislation like H.R. 1, to ensure that government is playing the role that it should be in facilitating real participation in the political process. [The statement of Mr. Lopez follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Fudge. Thank you very much. Reverend Barber, you are recognized. STATEMENT OF WILLIAM BARBER II Rev. Barber. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and to Congressman Butterfield as well. I want to remind us today that the word for ``vote'' and ``voice'' in Hebrew is the same word. And here we are in Holy Week, and it says Jesus said in Holy Week no matter what else we do, if we do not attend to justice we have left undone the weightier matters of the law. I am also a member of the National Board of NAACP and President Emeritus of the North Carolina NAACP. And we must have a full restoration of the Voting Rights Act in this country. Here in North Carolina, we have spent the better part of a decade defending our State against an all-out attack, an all- out attack on voting rights. In 2008, North Carolina's 15 electoral college votes went to America's first Black President, and it sent shock waves through a racially polarized, White-dominated Republican Party that had since the time of Nixon banked on winning elections in the South through campaign strategies that stoked racial tensions and suppressed the vote. When this Southern strategy failed to deliver in 2008 and was instead defeated by a multi-racial fusion coalition in North Carolina, right-wing extremists scrambled to invest unprecedented sums of money in State legislative races, resulting in an extremist takeover in 2010. The Governor would veto an attempt to put in place a photo ID in 2010 but could not veto the racist redistricting maps that were put in place. The majority put them in place, redrew both the State legislative districts and the U.S. congressional districts in their favor. This was an act that was coordinated by the former speaker, now Senator Thom Tillis, and a host of other regressive lawyers, led by Thomas Farr. When they made those new maps, it allowed for a supermajority to be elected in 2012. This supermajority, when elected in 2013, immediately began to introduce legislation and voting options and voting policies that would block the expansion of the electorate that we had fought so hard for. It would take us eight years, eight years to overturn these efforts, eight years to overturn this supermajority that was in place, because of sweeping unconstitutional racial gerrymandering. In 2013, they passed the Senate Bill 666 during this very week, Holy Week, 666. It was the worst attack on voting rights we have seen since Jim Crow. Then they tabled it and they waited. They waited until June 25, 2013, when the Supreme Court gutted the heart of the Voting Rights Act. And some of the leadership in this State said, now that the headache has been removed, we can move forward. Immediately, just hours after the Shelby ruling was handed down, the leadership then of the North Carolina General Assembly announced that because the headache has been removed, they would move forward now with the monster voter suppression law, the monster voter suppression law. That law was passed, and, as you said, before the ink was dry we filed suit, the North Carolina NAACP, with others. But this law sought to eliminate same-day registration, preregistration for 16- and 17-year-olds, out-of-precinct ballot, the first week of early voting, and instituted one of the Nation's most stringent voter ID requirements. We have been battling for 2,023 days today, 5 years, 9 months, and 24 days since the Voting Rights Act was gutted in 2013. This monster voter suppression law was the worst of its kind after Shelby in the Nation, and it was only possible because the preclearance protection was no longer in place. It, in fact, has been the worst we have seen since Jim Crow. We heard the lawyer who was leading the effort say in court that retrogression was okay now that the Voting Rights Act was no longer in place. We heard a Federal judge ask, it is on the record: ``Why don't people want people to vote in North Carolina?'' In response to this, thousands, thousands were arrested, thousands marched of every race, color, creed, and party. Without the voting rights preclearance, it took us years of organizing and fighting. Finally, in July 2016, a unanimous panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals, the Fourth Circuit, held that the law that targeted African Americans with almost surgical precision was, in fact, unconstitutional. However, they have not stopped. Even in 2018 there is a continuing effort to suppress the vote, to put in place in the Constitution voter suppression through photo ID. We must have a restoration of the Voting Rights Act in this country. It is, in fact, continuing to undermine the very power that now African Americans, whites, and brown people have, particularly in the South, that could open up the politics of this country. The Southern strategy is still being worked through all these efforts to suppress the vote at the very time that we have more power and potential than we have ever had in history. [The statement of Rev. Barber follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Fudge. Thank you. And thank you all. We are now going to open for questions, and I am going to recognize my colleague, Mr. Butterfield, for five minutes. Mr. Butterfield. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman. Let me first address my initial question to Professor Joyner. Mr. Joyner, thank you for your testimony today. You have been on the front lines in this State for a very long time, and I just want to thank you and those that work with you and beside you for all the work that you do. You mentioned Dr. Kenneth Williams in Winston-Salem who became the first African American alderman in North Carolina in 1947. You are absolutely right about that and as a result of that, Winston-Salem went from district elections, I believe, to at-large elections. The next African American elected was in Fayetteville, Cumberland County. The same thing happened. The third was in Durham. The fourth was in my hometown of Wilson, North Carolina. After the African American candidate won in Wilson in 1953, in 1957 the city changed--without notice--changed the method of election from district elections to at-large elections, and the African American candidate lost miserably in 1957. I remember it so well. I was 10 years old. I have the same name as the candidate who lost that election. But the question that I raise is, is it critical to minority communities to have district elections? Is there a benefit? Is there a leveling of the playing field when you have fairly drawn election districts? Mr. Joyner. And the answer to that is yes, because what happens and what happened with your father in Wilson, to Kenneth Williams in Winston-Salem, was that large populations of African Americans were submerged into larger white populations and prevented individuals from being able to be elected, because you had race-based voting that was occurring at that time. But following up with that was the strategy adopted then by African Americans to single shot or bullet ballots in order to overcome the disadvantage of being submerged. And then the legislature then outlawed that, made it illegal for you to single shot. Mr. Butterfield. We are notorious for cutting off witnesses, so please don't take this personally, but the five minutes go pretty fast. The next question. Do at-large elections still exist? Do you still encounter at-large elections or are they a relic of the past? Mr. Joyner. They are not a relic of the past. They are still present and they are coming back. Mr. Butterfield. And in those jurisdictions, do you find African American communities and other minority communities submerged in these at-large systems and their votes are diluted? Mr. Joyner. Yes, that is correct. Mr. Butterfield. And do these jurisdictions every 10 years redistrict, as they are supposed to according to law? Mr. Joyner. The smaller districts typically do not. On the State level they redistrict, but typically at the smaller level---- Mr. Butterfield. City Council---- Mr. Joyner. City Council---- Mr. Butterfield [continuing]. County Commission, Board of Education? Mr. Joyner. They don't. Mr. Butterfield. All right. Mr. Lopez, as I have a little time left, let me again thank you for your testimony as well. You mentioned Halifax County as an example of a county that has only one early voting site in the whole county. I have been coming to Halifax County for more than 50 years, and I can tell you firsthand this is a large county. It stretches from Littleton on the west end to Scotland Neck on the east end. That is a long ways, and a substantial number of households do not have transportation. And to have only one early voting site in the county, do you find that to be problematic? Mr. Lopez. It is deeply problematic, sir. Mr. Butterfield. I have a statement, Madam Chairwoman, from the Chairman of the Halifax County Board of Elections. Her name is Kristin R. Scott, Elections Director. I have a letter that I would offer for the record that explains the difficulties encountered by her office in funding multiple locations of early voting. Chairwoman Fudge. Without objection, so ordered. [The information follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T8117A.088 Mr. Butterfield. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Now, you mentioned voter ID, Mr. Lopez. I believe the original voter ID law passed by the legislature was struck down by the court. Mr. Lopez. Yes. Mr. Butterfield. Which court struck that down? Mr. Lopez. That was the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit. Mr. Butterfield. That is a Federal court. Mr. Lopez. Yes, sir. Mr. Butterfield. Right. And then I believe the legislature came back some time later and adopted a constitutional amendment, and that proposition was placed on the statewide ballot. Is that correct? Mr. Lopez. Yes. Mr. Butterfield. And then that constitutional amendment was struck down by which court? Mr. Lopez. There was a State court in North Carolina that struck down the amendment that said basically that because the legislature that passed it was unlawfully constituted, per a Federal court decision as to gerrymandering, that really it violated North Carolinian constitutional principles as to its authority to actually pass amendments. Mr. Butterfield. And finally, is it true that the legislature is of the opinion they can still continue with the voter ID law because of the enabling legislation, notwithstanding the unconstitutionality of the amendment? Mr. Lopez. That is my understanding. And my understanding is that they are also appealing the State Court decision. Mr. Butterfield. So unless something changes, we will have voter ID in 2020? Mr. Lopez. Yes. And I would say, in addition to the actual amendment legislation, the enabling legislation is also being litigated. Mr. Butterfield. Thank you. I yield back. Chairwoman Fudge. Thank you. Let me just ask each of you, if there were two things that you would say that the Federal Government needs to do to assist you in your efforts to make sure that North Carolinians are treated fairly, that we can once again give some confidence back to the people that we are doing all we can to be sure that everyone has the right to vote, what would those couple of things be? We will just start with you, Professor Joyner, and just go straight across. Mr. Joyner. Well, I want to adopt everything that has been said already about the Voting Rights Act and its importance. What I would add to that is that we need to have an independent voter protection agency as a part of the Federal Government to regulate and oversee efforts to guarantee that this fundamental right is honored. Voting is a fundamental right and it is just as fundamental as is communications, as is election financing, and the independent agencies at the Federal level to oversee that. We have lost faith in the Justice Department to protect our rights. So, therefore, we need something more permanent than that, and it ought to be in the form of an independent agency with the authority and power to oversee and regulate voting. Chairwoman Fudge. Okay. So you would not support the position that the Department of Justice should still do preclearance? Mr. Joyner. I would not personally, in light of egregious decisions that have been made by that agency in the past years. Chairwoman Fudge. Mr. Lopez. Mr. Lopez. As I stated earlier, I think Congress, by restoring the full protections of the Voting Rights Act with a coverage formula that was able to account for the kinds of voting discrimination that we see today, that addresses a range of States--Madam Chairwoman, you are from Ohio, that is a State that has a number of major issues involving voting rights--and one that recognizes also the changing nature of the country. North Carolina's citizen voting age population increased by 7.1 percent between 2012 and 2017, but Spanish language limited English proficient citizens, that population increased by about 40 percent in that time. The nature of who is living and who is voting and who are eligible voters is changing in this State and around the country. And so language access is going to be an important piece of that picture, as well, among the many other things that we are talking about here. Chairwoman Fudge. Well, certainly one of the things that these hearings across the country are attempting to do is to create the very record that you are talking about so that we can have a formula that would satisfy not only the Supreme Court, but the Congress of the United States. Any data that you may have, you know, clearly--and I will just read this now. The record is going to remain open for at least five business days for additional material. So if you have materials, we would very much love for you to submit them. And we will take a look at them and decide whether they should be a part of our permanent record. Reverend Barber. Rev. Barber. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. First, I think we should fully restore and expand the Voting Rights Act. Looking at the dynamics today, 40 percent of the population in the South is now people of color. We should fully expand it. I think that we have to be very careful when I hear people wanting to make this about partisanship and keeping it where it is, about race. Ultimately, voter suppression is racist voter suppression. That has always been and that is what we continue to see. The Supreme Court said here in North Carolina, it was with surgical precision regarding race. I think we also--and I would like to submit some additional things--but also issues like automatic voter registration at 18. If you can be registered for war at 18 automatically, you should be registered to vote automatically at 18, to expand the vote. We should be looking at ways we can expand and more institutionalize early voting. All those things that allow more participation. I am haunted by that question the Federal judge asked: Why is it that people don't want people to vote? And I would hope you would pull that from that Federal--he asked it in court. It is in the record. Lastly, and I don't know how we deal with this, but beyond just restricting the right to vote, what we have had in North Carolina and in other places is an unconstitutionally constituted legislature then blocking the people of North Carolina from benefits like Medicaid expansion, like living wages. And then an unconstitutionally constituted legislature, once they lose in the Federal court and lose in the State court, turn around and put things in the Constitution. And some way that is very troubling, that you can be elected by a procedure that the courts say is unconstitutional but use your unconstitutional ill-gotten power to then implement policies that affect people from their voting rights to their wages to how we address poverty to women's rights to immigrants' rights. That is, if it is not wrong legally, it is certainly wrong morally. I believe it is a fundamental undermining of democracy for those who have been unconstitutionally elected to then have the power to affect the lives of the people in every aspect and form of their daily lives. Mr. Butterfield. As we conclude, let me just use this last minute to again thank you the three of you for your testimony. It has been very valuable. I just want to reassure you. We were in North Dakota 2 days ago, in Bismarck, North Dakota, on an Indian reservation, and one of the witnesses there was very concerned that this would be an exercise in futility, that we were just politicians coming down just to check it off a list. But I want to assure you that your testimony today will be in the Congressional record. We are the Elections Subcommittee of the United States House of Representatives, and what you have said today will benefit us greatly. We are having seven field hearings across the country. We have already been to Brownsville, Texas, and Atlanta, Georgia. This week we are in North Dakota. Of course, we are here today. Next week, we are in Cleveland, Ohio. I don't know how we got to Cleveland, Madam Chairwoman, but that is the chair's hometown. And then we traverse down to Birmingham, Alabama. And then we conclude in Broward County, Florida. And so I just want to use my last minute to assure you that this is not just a political exercise; this is the real deal, and it is creating the official record that will be used to legislate on voting rights in the United States Congress. Thank you very much for your testimony. Chairwoman Fudge. Let me just ask this one last question, and I think you all have touched on it. But how do segregation and poverty create an additional barrier to voting, especially in places like Halifax County? Just go right down the line. You start, please, Professor Joyner. Mr. Joyner. Well, among other things, it erodes the trust that people have in the process and in the system. It erodes the belief that the system is serving them fairly and serving them well and is looking out for their best interests. The system has been created in such a way that people are locked into a series of deprivations, and with that they lose faith and trust in the system, therefore they are not willing to participate actively in making sure that the system works. Chairwoman Fudge. Mr. Lopez. Mr. Lopez. In some sense, democracy is a deal, that in exchange for your participation, your engagement, your needs are addressed. And where people see their needs not being addressed, they don't see the value of participating, as Professor Joyner stated. I would also say that it also makes alternatives to democracy and alternatives to participation more appealing. So that when you are told that the answer doesn't have to come from voting in this way, the answer doesn't have to come through certain kinds of solutions, you may be more open to that. I would also say that there are clearly ways in which these laws have been structured to take it to place barriers that are especially difficult to surmount for people who have these things that they are dealing with. And so that is why transportation access, food access, the ability to be a member participating in the economy are all things that actually matter as democracy issues. Chairwoman Fudge. Thank you. Dr. Barber. Rev. Barber. Yes, Madam Chairwoman. There was a concept that we used in our fight called an impoverished democracy. And that impoverished democracy says that when you deny things like early voting that we fought for years to put in place, finally won expansions in 2007 before the 2008 election, that you are undermining people who every day of their lives have to fight just to exist and may not be able to be off on election day. We actually believe Election Day ought to be a holiday. But early voting allows them, Saturday voting, to get there. When they don't have that, that is a form of an impoverished democracy. Photo ID, when you make people, as, God rest her soul, our dear plaintiff, Rosanell Eaton, before she died, she testified and was on the record of how many miles she had to travel and gas she had to spend. And she had voted for years, 50, 60 years, but under the new law it prohibited her. She had to try to get this new ID. That is a form of poll taxing in the 21st century. But here is the other piece of it. We in the Poor People's Campaign: A National Call for Moral Revival have done a mapping, and that mapping is we mapped every State that has engaged in racist voter suppression, particularly since 2013, and we then overlaid that map with poverty. And this is what we found, and I can introduce this into the record: that every State that has massive racist voter suppression law elects politicians who are adversely against the poor. And so the same States that have racist voter suppression laws have the highest poverty, the highest child poverty, the highest women in poverty, the most adamant politicians against living wages. They all blocked Medicaid expansion. They all have policies that hurt women, the LGBTQ community, and immigrants. Ironically, the States that have the worst voter suppression elect politicians who end up passing policies that hurt mostly White people, because a majority of the poor are White in terms of raw numbers, even though the majority of poor per capita are Black. In this State there are almost 2 million poor and low- wealth people. There are 140 million poor and low-wealth people in this country. And all of the States that have voter suppression have the worst policies toward the poor. So if you only knew that a State had racist voter suppression, you could hypothesize that that State is backwards when it comes to living wages, healthcare, workers' rights, laborers' rights, protection of the immigrant community, protection of the LGBTQ community. So voting rights targeted, voter suppression targeted, at Black people ends up hurting all people, because it is fundamentally against democracy. [Applause.] Chairwoman Fudge. Thank you. Mr. Butterfield. Madam Chairwoman, I introduced into the record a statement of Kristin Scott, elections director for the County of Halifax. What I failed to do was to also enter into the record a map of Halifax County showing--and I have it on the screen now--showing the contours of the entire county with the single early voting site being in Halifax, which is in the center of the county, which is many, many miles from the other communities. Thank you. I yield back. Chairwoman Fudge. Without objection, so ordered. [The information follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Butterfield. Thank you. Chairwoman Fudge. Let me just close by saying a couple things. Clearly, we know that our neighborhoods and our schools are probably as segregated now as they were in 1968. We know that people of color in this country have been singled out for precisely the kind of voter suppression that we are talking about here today. Now, we have colleagues who believe that there was fraud in this country in voting. But the woman you are talking about who voted for 50, 60 years and then all of a sudden she couldn't vote anymore, to me it is an abomination to who we are as a Nation. We are here to be sure that we can create the kind of a record that is going to be satisfactory to at least get a formula back in place, because if we don't it will get worse, it will not get better. As an African American, I know what it means to be an African American and I understand that it is hard to be black in America today, but I also know that it is hard to be poor in America today. It is hard to be a woman in America today. So we all have to come together to be sure that we can make America live up to her promise that all of us have the unabridged, unfettered right to vote. I thank you for being here today to talk about what it is you think we need to do, because there is much we need to do. We cannot change people's attitudes, but we clearly can change the law. I thank you all so much for being here, and I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. [Applause.] Chairwoman Fudge. If the panelists can just stay right here, we are going to walk around and take a photograph as we prepare to bring our second panel up. Thank you. Chairwoman Fudge. Thank you all so much. Let us begin our second panel. If you can either take your seats or take your conversations out of the area, we would like to begin. Thank you so much. It is now time for our second panel. Let me begin by introducing Senator Dan Blue, who is a member of the North Carolina Senate, where he serves as his chamber's Minority Leader. He also previously served as Speaker of the House in North Carolina and is a tireless leader in this State. Welcome. Caitlin Swain is co-Director of Forward Justice. Ms. Swain has litigated challenges to North Carolina's voting laws and works at the intersection of law, policy, and civil rights in the South. Last but not least, Justice Patricia Timmons-Goodson, Vice- Chair of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights. Justice Timmons- Goodson was most recently an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of North Carolina from 2006 to 2012, and before that, was an Associate Judge on the North Carolina Court of Appeals, and a District Judge of the 12th Judicial Circuit. President Obama appointed her to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights in July 2014. Thank you all so much for being here. Mr. Blue, you are recognized for five minutes. STATEMENTS OF DAN BLUE, SENATE MINORITY LEADER, NORTH CAROLINA STATE SENATE; CAITLIN SWAIN, CO-DIRECTOR, FORWARD JUSTICE; AND HON. PATRICIA TIMMONS-GOODSON, VICE-CHAIR, U.S. COMMISSION ON CIVIL RIGHTS STATEMENT OF DAN BLUE Mr. Blue. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman and Congressman Butterfield. We are glad you are in North Carolina conducting this hearing. Just quickly, in 1978, North Carolina had one of the lowest black participating voting rates. Over the next 30 years, by 2008, North Carolina had one of the highest black participation rates in elections, and that was because of a series of laws that were enacted over that 30-year period to encourage voting and to remove the obstacles to minority voting, and we were successful at it. One of the things that I have heard talked about earlier today was the monster law in 2013, I lived through it, I was in the Senate at the time, and it was designed to totally reverse the history that I just related to you. It was aimed at all those measures that we had taken over the previous 30 years to ensure participation and access to the ballot for all the citizens of this State. Now, I would like to address, briefly, some fallout, I think, from this whole discussion of Section 4, because it relates also to the question of overall voter suppression. And I think that voter fraud has been the basis upon which a lot of these laws have been enacted. In North Carolina, that is basically a nonstarter. There is very little voting fraud in North Carolina. The real issue has been election fraud in this State much more, I think, recently than voting fraud. And in-person voting fraud has been a red herring from the beginning of the discussions that I have heard from the early 1980s forward, and it still is a red herring. An audit of votes in the 2016 general election found one case of in-person voter impersonation out of 4.8 million votes cast. One case. When Republicans have amplified the false narrative that in-person voter fraud is rampant, now we have discovered true election fraud, and you don't have a colleague representing the Ninth Congressional District in North Carolina. That is the real challenge. Ballot harvesting by political operatives compromise more than 2,500 votes in Robeson County, and Bladen County in North Carolina. It is the election fraud as opposed to the voter fraud that is the real challenge to us here. And we have been chasing this problem that is not a problem. But, to date, North Carolina General Assembly passed yet another voter ID law, claiming that it is going to prevent voter fraud, and nothing has gone on in a discussion of what we do about voter harvesting. The real cost of voter ID in the State, and we made this argument, is that this legislation that was enacted last year, this new amendment to our State Constitution, puts a tremendous burden on the State and local boards of election without the funding to back up these obligations that it makes access to the ballot even less likely. You have heard the testimony of the distances that people travel, but as importantly, it will cost $17 million to implement a photo ID requirement without any funding having been provided specifically for that. The original fiscal note attached to the implementing legislation that was referred to only addressed the voter fraud protection, and not these other broad ranges of issues that are present in this discussion. While local boards of election are tasked with creating new photo IDs, we haven't given them the funding to do it. Now, voter suppression is also occurring through voter confusion, which is another issue. The recent bill put the unnecessary burden on voters mandating that they must comply with new photo ID requirements at the polls in just five months from now. Five months from now, these are our local elections. And so we have a requirement for voter ID without any implementation for providing it. Of the 850 universities, colleges, government agencies, and tribes, only 72 applied for their voter identification requirements to be approved. Among them, 12 of North Carolina's 17 UNC system schools were rejected for failing to meet the statutory requirements. Of our UNC system schools, only North Carolina State, North Carolina Central, Elizabeth City State, Appalachian State, and UNC-Asheville, students will be allowed to use their voter IDs to vote. Voter ID is required in an election occurring less than a month from now. A bill to fix the problem has been introduced in the House, but the Republican leadership in the Senate said there is nothing to fix. So it goes on. This whole issue of voter suppression, by way of confusing voters, as to what ought to be required in order for them to vote. [The statement of Mr. Blue follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Fudge. Thank you very much. Ms. Swain, you are recognized for five minutes. STATEMENT OF CAITLIN SWAIN Ms. Swain. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman and Congressman Butterfield, hopefully you can hear me now. My name is Caitlin Swain, and I am co-Director of Forward Justice, a law, policy, and strategy center based in Durham, North Carolina, dedicated to advancing racial, social, and economic justice in the U.S. South. It has been our privilege to serve as counsel in several litigation efforts in North Carolina, post-Shelby, serving on behalf of the North Carolina NAACP. At Forward Justice, we know that when we enlarge the ``We'' in ``We, the people,'' we are stronger as a Nation. When we expand that ``We,'' we rise to the higher call of our moral and constitutional dictates. Freedom from racial discrimination in voting is not a partisan value, it is how we measure the guarantee of our shared commitment to a free, fair, and inclusive democracy. Yet, in North Carolina and across the Nation, our commitment to perfecting the union is in crisis. For the better part of a decade, shamefully, history is repeating itself. Post-Shelby, as you have heard today, and as this committee is well-aware, North Carolina has infamously become the testing ground for a crushing avalanche of anti-voter and racially discriminatory voter suppression policies. As soon as protections were lifted, as detailed in my written testimony, and as the committee has already heard this morning, the General Assembly of North Carolina enacted the most comprehensive voter suppression law seen since the Jim Crow era, targeting African American access to the ballot with what the Court of Appeals has termed ``surgical precision,'' eliminating same-day registration, a week of early voting, the safeguard of out-of-precinct voting, and pre-registration of 16- and 17-year-olds. And also enacting one of the strictest discriminatory photo voter ID laws in the Nation. We know that photo voter ID in North Carolina is a solution in search of a problem. While the North Carolina NAACP and many other plaintiffs, including 96-year-old Mother Rosanell Eaton, who you heard about earlier this morning, ultimately succeeded in eliminating the law in historic litigation. Untold damage was done in the three intervening years before that decision came down and was ultimately supported by the U.S. Supreme Court. Right after the victory, in 2016, as I detail in my written testimony, the fight did not end. There are intersecting barriers to the right to vote at the local level, including early voting access issues that Tomas Lopez spoke about earlier today, as well as voter purge issues, which I have given detailed information about. I will speak to one of those issues. On the eve of the 2016 election, during the 30 days before Election Day, a challenge was made to the registration of 100- year-old Grace Bell Hardison, based on an unreturned mailing. Ultimately, what we discovered in our investigation is that this challenge was a part of a mass systematic removal strategy in this State. Again, while we were victorious in the ultimate litigation, harm was done as we continued to have to divert our resources toward litigation and away from enfranchising voters. Access to the ballot should not be a party-line decision. We all have a stake in returning dignity to our democracy, and we know what works. And yet, as soon as the Supreme Court decision ultimately finding that the North Carolina NAACP v. McCrory case would be law took place, the General Assembly leadership came forward and said that they would be pursuing a constitutional amendment to enshrine voter ID in the North Carolina Constitution. And I just want to note, obviously we have spoken about this today, but a quote from the General Assembly leadership at that time, the Republican General Assembly leadership, that the goal was to mute future court challenges. We must restore the Voting Rights Act preclearance regime. It is a shameful--it is shameful here in North Carolina what voters have had to do to have confidence in this democracy. I look forward to answering your questions as to specific concerns, and I thank you for this opportunity. [The statement of Caitlin Swain follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Fudge. I thank you as well. The Honorable Patricia Timmons-Goodson, you are recognized for five minutes. STATEMENT OF HON. PATRICIA TIMMONS-GOODSON Judge Timmons-Goodson. Thank you very much. Chairwoman Fudge and Representative Butterfield, thank you so very much for inviting me to appear today. I am Patricia Timmons-Goodson. Chairwoman Fudge. Pull the mic. Judge Timmons-Goodson. Thank you. I am Patricia Timmons- Goodson, Vice-Chair of the United States Commission on Civil Rights, and I come before you today to speak about our 2018 statutory enforcement report entitled ``An Assessment of Minority Voting Rights Access in the United States.'' That report is available, in full, on the Commission's website. Congress has directed the Commission to annually examine Federal civil rights enforcement efforts. Pursuant to that mandate, the Commission conducted a day-long briefing and public comment period in Raleigh, North Carolina, in February 2018. The decision to come to North Carolina was a bittersweet one for me. On the one hand, like Representative Butterfield, I delight in bringing visitors to my home State. On the other hand, I suspected that recent political and legislative changes would prevent--would present North Carolina in less than a favorable light. I understood that the visit was a must, and in the best interest of our State. The day after the Shelby County v. Holder decision, the General Assembly in North Carolina amended a pending bill to make its voter ID law stricter, and added other provisions eliminating, or restricting opportunities to vote that had been beneficial to minority voters, as Senator Blue has shared earlier. Federal courts later found these actions in North Carolina to be intentionally, racially discriminatory after years of litigation. The Commission, after its hearing, unanimously voted for the following key recommendations: Number one, that Congress should amend the Voting Rights Act to restore and/or to expand protections against voting discrimination that are more streamlined and efficient than existing provisions of the Act. Secondly, that in establishing the reach of an amended Voting Rights Act coverage provisions, Congress should include current evidence of voting discrimination, as well as evidence of historical and persisting patterns of discrimination. Another key recommendation, that a new coverage provision should account for evidence that voting discrimination tends to recur in certain areas. The Commission heard from 33 members of the public during our public comment period. Let me quickly share some of those comments. There was a common refrain, such as, ``Democracy works better when more people participate.'' ``A concerted coordinated effort is underway to undermine democracy in North Carolina.'' And we heard--continue to hear about a monster piece of legislation, and that that was to blame. Just sharing snippets of those public comments, from Ms. Mary Elizabeth Hanchey, she indicated that we were drowning in North Carolina in artful barriers to access the ballot, and that our minority communities were particularly subject to these artful barriers. From Ajamu Dilahunt, as he spoke of the monster law, he shared with us that racial gerrymandering prevented black political power through packing, and as he said, cracking, and used an example of the General Assembly splitting a precinct in the historically black college at A&T down the middle. One part of the campus was in one district, and the other part in another part of the district. And I am going to submit the transcript from that hearing. As you will see from the transcripts and the small snippets of North Carolina voting rights stakeholders that I just shared, there is growing and continuous concern for the voting rights of Americans. The distressing data from our report further adds to the urgency of Congress to restore and/or expand voter protections. Thank you. [The statement of Judge Timmons-Goodson follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Fudge. Thank you. Thank you all. And with your report, with no objection, we will enter it into the record. So ordered. Thank you. We will begin with our questions. Mr. Butterfield. Mr. Butterfield. Again, thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman, for yielding time to me. Thank you. First, let me acknowledge that all three of you are lawyers, so that is very helpful to us. While we are interested in history and what happened during Reconstruction and Antebellum era, and I am guilty of it as well, we are trying to create a contemporary record that will be valuable and relevant in the inquiry that we are engaged in. Thank you for speaking to contemporary issues that are present here in North Carolina. We were in, as I mentioned, North Dakota on Tuesday of this week. It is interesting to know that North Dakota does not have voter registration. I didn't know that before I got there, but they do not have voter registration. You just so show up on Election Day and you vote. But the fact of the matter is, that after the Shelby decision was made, the State came up with a voter ID requirement in North Dakota. And prior to that, the communities were so small that the community natives could identify every person that came through the polling place, because they were all friends, but after Shelby, they had this voter ID requirement. But the problem that we had to encounter was that there are Indian reservations in North and South Dakota where the Native Americans do not have street addresses, they have P.O. Boxes, that is their culture. They were being prohibited from casting their vote and being able to participate and so your testimony today is very helpful. Let me start with you, Senator Blue. Again, thank you. You and I have been friends for 105 years, 110 years, but it is good to see you again. According to the Brennan Center for Justice, Senator, between September 2016 and May of 2018, North Carolina purged 11 percent of its voter rolls. Just 19 of its counties purged fewer than 10 percent of their voters. No county purged fewer than 8 percent. These purges have been especially troubling for voters of color. In 90 out of 100 counties, voters of color were overrepresented among the purged group. Can you shed any light on that? Why has North Carolina purged so many voters? Mr. Blue. Well, part of the challenge is--and, again, you are familiar with the Federal court decision prior to the last election that stopped the purge somewhere in the middle district, I forget exactly which county, maybe it was in Cumberland County, or either Forsyth County. But, nevertheless, there are more dependable ways to determine where someone is now. And simply mailing a postcard, whether it is one of those post office boxes in South Dakota or mailing it to someone that you know is mobile and determining that as a soul reason to purge someone is not a way to do it in 2021--in 2020, rather. You can find out where someone is using much more modern techniques now rather than just sending a post card to find out whether they have moved, if they haven't voted in the last two Presidential elections. I think a lot of it is updating our way of determining one's whereabouts, using modern technology rather than 400- year-old technology. Mr. Butterfield. Sometimes even modern technology has its flaws. I had a witness in North Dakota who said that they came up with a scheme, that you called 911 if you didn't have a street address the technology would identify your location. And they identified this fellow's location as a liquor store, which is obviously where he didn't live. But, anyway, to you, Caitlin Swain, thank you. Let's talk about preclearance for a second. You know, I practiced voting rights law for a very short period of time and even I did not recognize in the beginning the power and effectiveness of Section 5 preclearance. It was a powerful tool until it was suspended by the Court. It was essentially at no cost. The burden of proof was on the jurisdiction seeking to obtain a change in election precision, and the jurisdiction had the obligation to submit the data and the request to the Department of Justice for preclearance. Sometimes there was preclearance; sometimes there was not preclearance. But there was no cost associated with it, and it was very effective, if you had a fair Department of Justice. On the other hand, Section 2, which was the provision that we used here in this county, is very expensive. When I did it years ago, it was in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and now I suspect it is in the millions of dollars to fully litigate a Section 2 claim without preclearance. The time and expense of protecting the right to vote has increased, litigation can be costly. Sometimes lawsuits can't be decided very quickly. My question is, can you describe the sorts of resources that are necessary to litigate voting cases? Where does this money come from? Ms. Swain. Absolutely, Congressman Butterfield. Mr. Butterfield. And I am running out of time, so if you could truncate your response. Ms. Swain. I would be happy to. In the Section 2 litigation that we have spoken about today, the counsel, all together, estimated more than $10 million of costs, just on the plaintiff's side. That was close to doubled when you also include nonprofit groups, estimates of the cost that we took on as well as the State's cost in bringing in private counsel to represent the Governor as well as the General Assembly. All those costs are borne disproportionately by the taxpayers of this State now, as well as by the--as well as a nonmonetary cost, which is that the burden is on the voters now, and I have detailed that. Mr. Butterfield. And, Ms. Timmons-Goodson, if you would give an addendum to that. Has the loss of preclearance made it more difficult to track these changes at the local level that could have--that could have a discriminatory effect---- Judge Timmons-Goodson. It absolutely---- Mr. Butterfield [continuing]. From the Civil Rights Commission's perspective? Judge Timmons-Goodson. From the Civil Rights Commission's perspective, it certainly has made tracking more difficult. At one point, there was a single source or a limited number of places that we could go to get the information, but when it is left to individual citizens and organizations to do the filing, it makes it far more difficult to track them. Mr. Butterfield. Thank you. Thank you. I yield back. Chairwoman Fudge. Thank you. Before we go any further, I was asked a question by someone in the audience about whether the audience could ask questions. This is an official Congressional hearing, so it does not allow for audience participation by way of asking questions. Just so that you would know that we are not ignoring you, this just happens to be an official hearing. Senator Blue, now I was talking to some of my sorority sisters last night, and they were telling me how the State legislature a few years back did everything they could to make it difficult for educators and the young people they educate by changing lots of rules. Now, I see that they are making it difficult for people to vote. What do your colleagues say, if they are ever asked? What is it that they have against hard-working people or against poor people, or against people who just want to participate and have their rights? What do they say? Mr. Blue. They don't say, Congresswoman. It is just that their belief is that fewer people who vote, the better their chances for sustaining themselves. That is what we experienced in the redistricting. The thought that the more people that I exclude from it, the more regressive the policies I adopt are, and they are not able to do anything to me about that. I think that Dr. Barber described it adequately that when you put extra burdens on people who are already overburdened, then they are going to have to make choices as to what they choose to do. And so they will choose not to vote, if it is more difficult, if you got to spend money to go vote. The question that Congressman Butterfield asked me about, the purging. If, in fact, you know that the poorer people are less likely to own their homes, and more likely to rent, they are going to be moving to different places, different apartments and stuff, and they are more subject to being purged. And there is data that backs that up, and so they look at that as they make the decisions. It is not a desire to get 100 percent represented democracy. It is a desire on their part, at least as I see it, to get representation for the people who agree with them, and not the people who might have a different experience or different idea as to how government ought to operate. Chairwoman Fudge. It is interesting to me, and G.K. said that we are all lawyers, the Constitution doesn't say that you can only vote if you vote in every election. It didn't say that if you skip two or three, that you can't vote. The Constitution doesn't say that. The Constitution says you have an unabridged, unfettered right to vote. I really believe that purging is unconstitutional. And for all of those who constantly want to recite the Constitution and talk about the First Amendment, and read it when we start Congress, they really don't care about the Constitution, because if they did, they would make it easier for people to vote and not harder. [Applause.] Chairwoman Fudge. Ms. Timmons-Goodson, when you prepare reports, as the one that you have described to us, where does that report go? Is there a Congressional committee that you make--that you testify in front of, or what happens to those reports? Judge Timmons-Goodson. Yes. The Commission, upon deciding the issue that we are going to examine, commences to bring together experts in and on a particular issue. So those experts may come from government, may come from the Academy, may be regular citizens, and they testify, much as we are doing here today. The report that was filed in connection with voting rights represented our statutory report. By law, the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights must submit to Congress and the President at least one report each year, and so the voting rights was our issue for the year. A copy was sent to the President, and to the leaders of Congress. And when I say ``leaders,'' I am talking about the leadership, and then we make available to other Members of Congress a copy of the report. Chairwoman Fudge. I am going to ask you all the same question I have asked on every panel, because we are responsible for Federal elections. Obviously, sometimes they overlap. But if there was something that you would believe that the Federal Government could do to assist in making elections fairer in North Carolina, what would it be? And I will just start and go straight down the line. Senator? Mr. Blue. I would give you two quick suggestions. One would be for the Congress to weigh in on this whole question of redistricting. You do have the power and authority to determine what Federal elections look like. And if you set the model using Federal elections, I think the States mostly will follow. Secondly, the Congress can weigh in to make it easier for people to vote. When we started early voting, same-day registration, and all of those, they were designed to make it easier for people to vote. Because in interviewing people across the State and in representing people across the State, they couldn't get off work on Election Day. And if you are in rural North Carolina, for the most part, where I grew up, you were encouraged not to vote, and you were penalized if you did. I think that Congress could engage in the discussion of Election Day itself. We are probably one of the few advanced societies that does not recognize Election Day as a holiday, as a day that everybody can take off to go vote. Now, if you got ample one-stop voting or early voting, you don't have to do it, but you got to have 3 or 4 weeks of early voting in order to offset this 1-day vote so that people can express themselves. Chairwoman Fudge. Thank you. Ms. Swain. Ms. Swain. Thank you. In addition to reinstating the preclearance regime, which we have spoken about today, I have two further recommendations: One, as is included in H.R. 1, invest in incentives for State investment and voting infrastructure, voter modernization efforts, and expanding access to the ballot at the State level. So that would be Federal incentives to make those changes. Secondly, we believe that we must expand the right to vote to include those disenfranchised based on criminal convictions in this country. In North Carolina, this is a vestige of the 1900 white supremacy campaign in the State. The constitutional amendment creating felony disenfranchisement was the same that created the literacy test. The Congress does have a role to play in this, though these are also State-based laws. I believe that that is also included in the current version of H.R. 1, we would endorse that here in North Carolina. Thank you so much. Chairwoman Fudge. Thank you. Ms. Timmons-Goodson. Judge Timmons-Goodson. Yes. I concur fully in the suggestions that have been put forth thus far and would not have any additional ones to add to that. Chairwoman Fudge. Well, I thank you all for your testimony, and I thank the audience for being here. I want to thank our staff for the work that they have done to make sure that this-- basically all I do is come and sit down, they do all the work. I want to thank them for the work they are doing. As well, I would like to thank Halifax Community College for hosting us today. And with that, I would thank my colleague, who is your Representative, and a good one at that. This hearing is, without objection, adjourned. [Whereupon, at 11:44 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]