[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
WITH CENSUS BUREAU DIRECTOR,
DR. STEVEN DILLINGHAM
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
OVERSIGHT AND REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
FEBRUARY 12, 2020
__________
Serial No. 116-91
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Reform
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available on: http://www.govinfo.gov
oversight.house.gov or
docs.house.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
39-929 WASHINGTON : 2020
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND REFORM
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York, Chairwoman
Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of Jim Jordan, Ohio, Ranking Minority
Columbia Member
Wm. Lacy Clay, Missouri Paul A. Gosar, Arizona
Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts Virginia Foxx, North Carolina
Jim Cooper, Tennessee Thomas Massie, Kentucky
Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia Mark Meadows, North Carolina
Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois Jody B. Hice, Georgia
Jamie Raskin, Maryland Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Harley Rouda, California James Comer, Kentucky
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Florida Michael Cloud, Texas
John P. Sarbanes, Maryland Bob Gibbs, Ohio
Peter Welch, Vermont Clay Higgins, Louisiana
Jackie Speier, California Ralph Norman, South Carolina
Robin L. Kelly, Illinois Chip Roy, Texas
Mark DeSaulnier, California Carol D. Miller, West Virginia
Brenda L. Lawrence, Michigan Mark E. Green, Tennessee
Stacey E. Plaskett, Virgin Islands Kelly Armstrong, North Dakota
Ro Khanna, California W. Gregory Steube, Florida
Jimmy Gomez, California Fred Keller, Pennsylvania
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York
Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
Katie Porter, California
Deb Haaland, New Mexico
David Rapallo, Staff Director
Russ Anello, Chief Counsel
Amy Stratton, Clerk
Christopher Hixon, Minority Staff Director
Contact Number: 202-225-5051
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C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on February 12, 2020................................ 1
Witnesses
The Honorable Dr. Steven Dillingham, Director, United States
Census Bureau
Oral Statement............................................... 5
Mr. Nick Marinos, Director, Information Technology and
Cybersecurity, Government Accountability Office
Oral Statement............................................... 8
Mr. J. Christopher Mihm, Managing Director, Strategic Issues,
Government Accountability Office
Oral Statement............................................... 6
Mr. Albert E. Fontenot Jr., Associate Director, Decennial Census
Bureau, United States Census Bureau
No Oral Statement............................................
* The prepared statements for the above witnesses may be found
at: docs.house.gov.
INDEX OF DOCUMENTS
----------
The documents listed below may be found at: docs.house.gov.
* Letter entitled ``2020 Census, District Census Doc'';
submitted by Rep. Gomez.
* Questions for the Record to Dir. Dillingham; submitted by
Rep. Grothman.
WITH CENSUS BUREAU DIRECTOR,
DR. STEVEN DILLINGHAM
----------
Wednesday, February 12, 2020
House of Representatives,
Committee on Oversight and Reform,
Washington, D.C.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m., in
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Carolyn Maloney
[chairwoman of the committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Maloney, Norton, Clay, Connolly,
Krishnamoorthi, Raskin, Rouda, Wasserman Schultz, Sarbanes,
Welch, Speier, Kelly, DeSaulnier, Lawrence, Plaskett, Khanna,
Gomez, Ocasio-Cortez, Pressley, Tlaib, Porter, Haaland, Jordan,
Gosar, Foxx, Meadows, Hice, Grothman, Comer, Cloud, Gibbs,
Higgins, Norman, Roy, Miller, Green, Armstrong, and Keller.
Chairwoman Maloney. The committee will come to order. Good
morning, everyone, and without objection the chair is
authorized to declare a recess of the committee at any time.
With that I will now recognize myself to give an opening
statement.
Good morning and thank you all for being here today. The
2020 census is now underway. Two weeks ago, the Census Bureau
counted its first person in rural Alaska. Next month, counting
will begin in earnest around our country.
The Constitution requires us to count every single person
in the United States, without exception. This census will be
the largest and most complex in American history, and it is
essential that the count is full, fair, and free from any
interference.
This year's census will have enormous consequences for our
communities. The results will drive the distribution of more
than $1.5 trillion in Federal funds. That is trillion, with a
T. These funds support critical services like children's health
care, local schools, roads, and bridges.
Unfortunately, the Administration's preparations for the
census have been woefully inadequate. Whether through
incompetence or intentional action, this Administration's
failures risk causing grave harm to this year's census and
could jeopardize a complete and accurate count, and these
problems are now absolutely urgent.
Today the nonpartisan Government Accountability Office is
publicly releasing a troubling new report that highlights
serious concerns about preparations for the 2020 census. We
will hear from GAO in a moment, but here are some of the most
concerning findings.
The Census Bureau, and I quote--this is from GAO--``faces
significant risks that could adversely impact the cost,
quality, schedule, and security of the county,'' end quote.
Quote, ``The Bureau is behind in its recruiting of
applicants for upcoming operations. If the Bureau does not
recruit sufficient individuals it may have difficulty hiring
enough staff to complete its upcoming operations within the
scheduled timeframes,'' end quote.
This is particularly troubling. This is a chart that GAO
has. The red line is where we should be in hiring, at 2.6
million. We are now at 2.2, getting there. But all of this time
when they should have been up here they were behind in the
hiring. That has got to impact, in a negative way, the outcome
of the census.
Another quote, ``The Bureau also continues to face
significant cybersecurity challenges, including those related
to addressing cybersecurity weaknesses in a timely manner,''
end quote.
And quote, ``The Bureau has missed interim goals building
toward its overall goal of 300,000 community partners by March
2020,'' end quote. Many people tell me, at the Bureau, at GAO,
and everywhere that one of the most important things is having
these partnerships with the community, because they know the
community. They know where the people are. They can help get
the count accurate as possible.
Today's stark warning from GAO reflects similar concerns
that this committee has been raising for the past several
years, with increasing urgency. Last month, we held a hearing
in which witnesses after witnesses raised dire warnings about
the Administration's failures to adequately prepare for the
2020 census. For example, Marc Morial, the President and CEO of
the National Urban League, testified that the Census Bureau
should be treating this as a, quote, ``state of an emergency,''
end quote. He warned that hiring was far, far behind schedule,
and, quote, ``it is time to ring the bell'' and that, quote,
``the risk for the Nation and the risk for our communities is
grave,'' end quote.
Vanita Gupta, the President and CEO of The Leadership
Conference on Civil and Human Rights, testified that an
undercount would have, quote, ``broad implications for how many
teachers to students there are in any school district, health
care, hospitals, roads, infrastructure,'' end quote. She also
warned, and I quote, ``Stakeholders urgently need more
information and a deployment plan,'' end quote.
Arturo Vargas, the CEO of NALEO Education Fund, warned that
the Trump administration's citizenship question debacle, quote,
``continues to foster fear and doubt,'' end quote. And this is
made worse by a hostile environment toward immigrants,
propagated by the Administration, end quote.
John Yang, the President and CEO of Asian Americans
Advancing Justice, testified that the Census Bureau's Language
Support Program has, quote, ``several gaps that need to be
overcome and that hiring efforts have been slow and
inconsistently inclusive of underserved communities.''
Today we will hear directly from the Census Bureau director
and we will have a lot of very tough questions for him. There
are grave challenges facing us in this year's census, and to be
honest I don't have full confidence that the Administration is
equipped to handle them.
Nevertheless, we are committed to doing everything we can
to highlight these challenges where we see them, work with our
dedicated colleagues at the Census Bureau and GAO, and
collaborate with our partners across the country to deliver a
fair and accurate count. Our Constitution requires it, our
communities rely on it, and our democracy depends on it.
And I want to thank, really, all of the witnesses, and
particularly the director for being with us today, and I look
forward to all of your testimony.
I now recognize our distinguished ranking member, Mr.
Jordan, for an opening statement.
Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Chairman, Madam Chair. I want to
thank you for convening this timely and important hearing. I
want to thank our witnesses, and in particular Director
Dillingham for taking the time out of his busy schedule, at
this busy time, to be here and testify today.
The census is among one of the most important matters
within our committee's jurisdiction. It is mandated by the
Constitution to occur every 10 years, and has been conducted
every decade since 1790. The data collected from the census is
used to apportion seats in the House of Representatives and to
distribute more than $600 billion annually in Federal funds to
states and localities. These numbers also serve as the
foundation for estimates of current population and for
projections of future population. For these reasons, it is
obviously important that the census is accurate and complete.
Unfortunately, the Democrats on this committee have largely
ignored their responsibility to oversee preparation for the
2020 census. Instead, Democrats have needlessly spent our time
focusing on the citizenship question in an effort to score
political points. And I must admit that after all this time I
still do not understand why the Democrats do not want to know
how many U.S. citizens are living in the United States of
America. This question has been on our census before. It is a
question asked by several nations around the world, and it is a
question that even the United Nations encourages countries to
ask.
The Democrats basically argued that the question was
designed to scare immigrant and racial communities in an effort
to undercount those populations, but that is simply not
correct. Census Bureau conducted a test in the summer of 2019
to study, quote, ``the operational effects of self-response of
including a citizenship question. The study found that there
was no difference, no difference in self-response rates between
forms with and forms without the citizenship question.''
Imagine that. Let me say that again. There was no difference in
self-response rates between forms with and without a
citizenship question.
In July 2019, following a Supreme Court decision, the Trump
administration removed the citizenship question from inclusion
on the 2020 census. Democrats want you to believe the
Administration took this action because the citizenship
question was fundamentally inappropriate and that the Court
vindicated their position. But, in fact, the Supreme Court held
that the Trump administration had the authority to add the
question about citizenship to the census, but took issue with
the Administration's process for doing so under administrative
law.
This is only the third hearing Democrats have called to
talk about the census since taking control of the House last
year. Prior to that, Republicans had held nine hearings or
briefings dating back to 2015, to examine challenges posed by
the 2020 census.
We are now in the midst of peak operations for the census.
On March 12, just one month from today, people will begin
completing and returning their census questionnaires. This is a
time when all systems must be fully operational. That
responsibility, of course, lies with Director Dillingham, and
certainly it is no small task.
The Census Bureau needs to hire approximately 500,000
people nationwide as enumerators to conduct non-response
followup operations. To reach that number, that hiring target,
the Census Bureau is conducting a nationwide recruiting
campaign to generate interest in this temporary work with the
goal of recruiting 2.6 million interested candidates by March
2, 2020, just a few weeks from now. I look forward to hearing
about how those efforts are going.
Given the enormity of this task and the amount of taxpayer
resources expended to complete the census, it is imperative
that we work to avoid wasteful spending in this process. Last
month, the GAO reported that the Census Bureau had managed
criteria for reliable cost estimates, the first time the Census
Bureau has ever met the GAO metrics for reliable cost
estimates. We are eager to get an update from our GAO witnesses
this morning about the cost-effectiveness of the census
operations.
I hope today that we can do away with the partisan
theatrics and actually work together to ensure the census is
complete and accurate. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I look
forward to testimony today.
With that I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you, and I would like to welcome
our witnesses. The Honorable Dr. Steven Dillingham is the
Director of the United States Census. Mr. Christopher Mihm is
the Managing Director of Strategic Issues at the Government
Accountability Office. Mr. Nick Marinos is the Director of
Information Technology and Cybersecurity at the Government
Accountability Office. Mr. Albert E. Fontenot is the Associate
Director of the Decennial Census Programs at the United States
Census Bureau.
And if you would all rise please and raise your right hand
I will begin by swearing you in.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Chairwoman Maloney. OK. Let the record show that all the
witnesses answered in the affirmative. Thank you, and please be
seated. The microphones are sensitive so please speak directly
into them, and without objection your written statements will
be made part of the record.
With that, Dr. Dillingham, thank you so much for coming.
Thank you for your service. You are now recognized for your
opening statement.
STATEMENT OF STEVEN DILLINGHAM, DIRECTOR, U.S. CENSUS BUREAU
Mr. Dillingham. Good morning, Madam Chairwoman, Ranking
Member, committee members. Thank you for inviting me to testify
on the 2020 census progress. This census has been planned for
the past decade. We are confident that we are on mission, on
budget, and on target.
As the chairwoman just stated, the 2020 census began a few
weeks ago in remote Alaska, on the Bering Sea, in the village
of Toksook Bay. We start early in remote Alaska where
conditions are severe, the nights are long, and before the snow
and ice begin to thaw. The village is accessible only by small
plane, weather permitting.
On the way, in Anchorage, we met with congressional and
state leaders, complete count committee, and partners from
public, private, and nonprofit groups. We attended a church
service in a diverse community where Father Fred bestowed
blessings for a safe journey and successful census.
The next stop was a small, snow-covered village of Bethel,
where local officials offered us, and local residents, native
winter gear. When the weather broke we left in small planes
with skilled, brave pilots. We were the only flights able to
reach Toksook Bay that day.
We were greeted by the village elder. I was whisked off on
a snowmobile to the home of the first person in the Nation to
be counted. As a census worker I cannot discuss the person's
data. The person's answers were in Yupik and were translated.
Upon completion, the person looked into my face, and with a
warm smile and gleaming eyes reflecting generations of wisdom,
saying two words, ``Thank you.''
I was honored to conduct that count. The person was honored
to be counted. The census is personal and built on trust. That
is how the 2020 census began.
As I departed I stopped at the school gym where villagers
gathered. Children were wearing traditional clothes, performing
native dance. Excitement was high, the bleachers were filled,
native food abundant. The village was celebrating the 2020
census.
To conduct a successful count it takes a village, like
Toksook Bay; a town like Bethel or Middlebury, Vermont; a city,
like New York City or Detroit; and a county, like Broward
County, Florida; Lorraine County, Ohio; York County, South
Carolina; and the most populous county of Los Angeles.
The success of Toksook Bay will be repeated across America.
Systems have been tested. Recruiting and hiring are on target.
Partnerships are unprecedented. Innovations and efficiencies
safe tens of millions of dollars. New options enable people to
complete the census anytime, anywhere.
The Government Accountability Office and inspector general
have reviewed our progress. The 2020 census is positioned for
success. As in Toksook Bay, it will take trust and engagement.
The Bureau has responsibility for data collection and
reporting, but the census does not belong to an agency or to
the Federal Government. It belongs to everyone and always has.
It is a national asset.
Engagement is increasing. We have statewide commissions
coordinating efforts. We have an army of partners numbering
more than a quarter of a million, actually this morning more
than 270,000, and climbing fast. These partners have employees,
members, and followers numbering in the tens of millions. This
is the largest civilian mobilization since World War II, due to
the number of census workers and the enormous public engagement
that happens during a decennial census.
We have twice as many partner specialists as before. We
thank this Congress for augmenting them with thousands of
mobile assistance to better reach low-response areas. Complete
count committees exceed 10,000, averaging more than 200 per
state and dozens per congressional district. Business partners
range from small to the largest, with many thousands of
employees.
Public partners include agencies at the Federal, state, and
local levels. Faith partners range from single churches to
entire denominations, education from single schools to school
districts, colleges from small to the largest university
systems, with hundreds of thousands of students, faculty, and
staff, and millions of alumni. We have more than 6,000 higher
education partners, and the list grows. We want every school
and every business as a partner.
Universal bipartisan support brings the Nation together for
this civic purpose. Governors and local leaders have issued
bipartisan proclamations of support as did the U.S. Senate.
Nearly all Members of Congress are partners. Your help matters.
We need leaders and trusted voices. We must work together to
foster public trust. We must roll up our sleeves to maximize
engagement. Our census professionals are confident, excited,
and ready. All systems are go. The countdown is now. The
national launch begins in one month.
Thank you for your oversight, leadership, and strong
support, and I think we have a couple of short ads from our
national media campaign that emphasize how easy, safe, and
important the census is. Our ads will reach 99 percent-plus of
all households repeatedly.
[Video shown.]
Mr. Dillingham. We don't have a prepared statement from the
associate director.
STATEMENT OF J. CHRISTOPHER MIHM, MANAGING DIRECTOR, STRATEGIC
ISSUES, GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE
Mr. Mihm. Chairwoman Maloney, Ranking Member Jordan,
members of the committee, it is a great pleasure to be here
today to discuss our work on the census. I am joined,
obviously, by my colleague, Nick Marinos, and we are honored to
appear before this committee. We are also delighted that many
of our colleagues from GAO, whose thoughtful and dedicated work
has supported the committee's oversight over a number of years,
are able to join us this morning.
As has been mentioned a number of times, the census has
already begun with the enumeration of remote areas of Alaska,
and we are a month away from the first mailings going out,
alerting individuals that they can start responding via the
internet.
As you know, we added the census to our high-risk list in
February 2017. Over the past decade, we have made 112
recommendations on the census, most of which have been
addressed by the Bureau but some of which remain open. The
information that Nick and I will present today is based on our
report being issued today, ``2020 Census: Initial Enumeration
Underway but Readiness for Upcoming Operations is Mixed,'' and
I know that each member of the committee has a copy of that
report.
I will briefly discuss the status of census operations and
then Nick will cover IT systems and cybersecurity. In the
interest of time, obviously, I will just hit three quick points
that were covered in the report.
First, the Bureau completed early operations on schedule.
Last October, the Bureau completed its in-field address
canvassing operation, where temporary field staff verified and
updated over 50 million addresses across the country. It met
its target date for opening its Questionnaire Assistance
Contact Centers, basically call centers, where the public can
call to ask questions or provide their census responses. It has
launched its advertising campaign--you just saw two examples of
that--to use print, social media, and television to spread word
about the census and encourage participation. And the Bureau
has opened all 248 area census offices that will be used to
manage the decennial at the local level. This is all good,
important news.
However, and second, the Bureau is behind its goal to
recruit applicants to work on the census. The Bureau estimates
that it will need to hire between 320,000 and 500,000 census
takers, referred to as enumerators, depending on the response
rate. While the size of those numbers is daunting enough, the
Bureau has long found that it needs several times that in
applicants in order to meet its hiring needs.
To date, the Bureau has recruited more than 2.1 million
applicants, while noteworthy, and nonetheless does fall short
of the interim target it set for itself to reach 2.5 million
applicants by now, building to, as was mentioned, the overall
goal of 2.6 million.
In addition, 202 of the 248 area census offices fell short
of their individual recruiting targets as of early February.
This is concerning because if the Bureau does not recruit
sufficient applicants it may have difficulty hiring enough
staff to complete upcoming operations, leading to delays,
increased costs, and eroded data quality. Moreover, as the
director just noted, the census, while a national effort, is
implemented locally in communities and neighborhoods across the
country. Thus, recruitment and hiring success in one area may
provide little advantage to an area where efforts are lagging.
Third, the Bureau also missed milestones for establishing
community partnerships. Partnerships are essential to educate
the public, encourage participation, and thereby maximize the
response rate, particularly for hard-to-count populations such
as persons with disabilities and persons experiencing
homelessness. Census partners, as was noted, include media
outlets, civil society organizations, health care
organizations, and the like.
The Bureau's goal is to have 300,000 community partners by
next month. As of early February, it had established over
238,000 of those. However, this falls short, again, of the
Bureau's interim goal, which was to have 250,000 partnerships
in place by the first of February.
Of course, the quality of the partnerships ultimately
matters much more than the quantity. The Bureau will have a
sense of how these partnerships are working from management
reports that will indicate the number of community partnerships
and participating organizations by sector, in audiences served,
and the number of events that the partners have sponsored.
In summary, Madam Chairwoman and members of the committee,
while early operations have been completed on schedule, the
Bureau faces a number of challenges in upcoming major
operations, as Nick will further elaborate. Perhaps the key
risk now is the response rate. Longstanding census experience
has taught me--certainly I began work on the census in the 1990
census--that high levels of public participation improve data
quality, limit cost, and reduce schedule pressure.
This completes my prepared statement and I would be happy
to answer any questions you may have.
Chairwoman Maloney. The next speaker.
STATEMENT OF NICK MARINOS, DIRECTOR, INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY AND
CYBERSECURITY, GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE
Mr. Marinos. Chairwoman Maloney, Ranking Member Jordan,
members of the committee, thank you for inviting GAO to discuss
preparations for the 2020 census. As Chris mentioned, our
latest report highlights a number of IT-related challenges
facing the Bureau. These include IT systems readiness and
cybersecurity.
Stepping back for a moment, I wanted to highlight the
complexity of administering the 2020 census from an IT
perspective. As you know, the Bureau is tasked with collecting
information from over 100 million households across our Nation,
and to do within constitutionally mandated timeframes. To make
it all happen, the Bureau will rely on 52 systems to support
census operations. Many of these systems will be deployed
multiple times in order to add needed functionality over the
course of 16 operational deliveries.
To the Bureau's credit, by the end of last month it had
successfully deployed systems for five operational deliveries,
including in support of address canvassing and recruiting and
hiring activities. However, the Bureau continues to face
schedule risks for 5 of the remaining 11 operational
deliveries, including for systems supporting internet self-
response.
The Bureau, in fact, recently identified a scalability
issue that was preventing it from meeting its goal of having up
to 600,000 users be able to concurrently access the internet
response system without experiencing performance problems. As a
result, the Bureau decided late last week that it will instead
use its backup system to manage internet responses for the 2020
census. Late design changes such as a shift from one system to
another can introduce new risk during a critical moment.
The internet response option is scheduled to be available
to the public in exactly one month from today. Therefore, the
Bureau needs to quickly ensure that the system is ready and
that contingency plans are finalized to reflect this change,
and fully test it before going live.
With respect to cybersecurity, the Census Bureau, like all
Federal agencies, faces a growing number of cyber threats. Web-
based attacks and phishing campaigns have become commonplace in
our world, and they pose a serious challenge to economic and
national security and to personal privacy. In light of this
growing threat, GAO has designated cybersecurity as a
governmentwide high-risk area since 1997.
To its credit, the Bureau has made progress in assessing
the security of its systems and authorizing them to operate. In
addition, the Bureau continues to leverage the expertise of
DHS' Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, known as
CISA, to conduct cybersecurity assessments and provide
consultative support.
Nonetheless, significant challenges still remain and the
Bureau needs to continue taking steps to fully protect 2020
operations. Specifically, the Bureau needs to maintain its
focus on security improvements called for by its own
assessments and those conducted by CISA. We previously
recommended that the Bureau improve its ability to address its
security to-do list in a more prioritized and timely way. The
Bureau agreed with us and is working to fully implement our
recommendations.
The Bureau should also maintain its vigilance in light of
the risk of disinformation on social media. The Bureau has been
actively coordinating with social media platform providers and
plans to roll out education and communication campaigns to
respond to this risk. We think such activities are essential.
In summary, the technology innovations that the Bureau
plans to rely on for the 2020 census create opportunities for
increasing efficiency and effectiveness of the count. However,
they also bring with them significant IT and cybersecurity
risks. Ultimately, the success of operations in the upcoming
months will be directly tied to how the Bureau continues to
manage these risks.
Madam Chairwoman, this concludes my statement. Thank you.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you very much. Thank you to all
of the participants today. And Dr. Dillingham, this new report
from GAO we just heard is very troubling, and just like the
witnesses that we heard from, I guess it was last month, this
new report seems to be sending flashing red lights, warning
that the Census Bureau simply is not ready for what is about to
happen, this important challenge before us.
Now in this new report, and in the testimony we just heard,
they warn of inadequate recruitment and hiring, missed target
dates, insufficient progress working with community partners,
and significant cybersecurity challenges, and I could say the
list goes on and on and on.
I want to give you a chance to respond. I know GAO gave you
and gave us the report a week ago. So, why is the Census Bureau
so far behind in so many aspects of the preparations across the
board? Mr. Dillingham--Dr. Dillingham?
Mr. Dillingham. Madam Chairwoman, it is a very good
question, and let me say that from the point of view of the
Census Bureau, we are not behind. And let me show you some
charts. We provided members with charts today as to where we
are.
The first chart we have is the recruiting chart. Now the
recruiting chart, as pointed out by GAO, is based on self-
response rates. We have three scenarios here. Now the figures
being cited, which we did develop ourselves, very ambitious
goals, the worst-case scenario, if our self-response rate drops
to 55 percent, which no one expects, but if it did we would
want 2.7 million people recruited from which we would hire
about a half million people. That is the worst-case scenario.
The next scenario is the 60.5 percent, and that is probably
the more reasoned scenario, in which case we would hire 320,000
people.
Now as of this morning we have 2.3 million completed
applicants, 2.5 million that have started their applications,
and it is increasing about 20,000 a day. We will meet--we will
meet the worst scenario goal by the first week of March, and
then we are going to surpass it. There is no doubt. We would
like--we currently have about four applicants for every
position. We want five applicants. We actually would like more.
So, we are going to have those applicants, and so the
recruiting--that is the first thing I will address.
Chairwoman Maloney. What about the number of partners
compared to the goal?
Mr. Dillingham. Sure. Let me show you, Madam Chairwoman, on
that.
Our partners, and again, we supplied you with these
figures, here is where we are. Now we had a straight line kind
of. We have very ambitious goals. We set them up intentionally
as being ambitious, to make sure we get the job done.
Chairwoman Maloney. I see the chart, Dr. Dillingham, and I
just want to point out that if we had been going on the red we
would have had more preparation in place. I only have a few
minutes because we keep very strict time, so I want to get to
GAO to respond, if I could. But I think if we had hired we
would have been in a better place right now. You are catching
up, good, but during this period the outreach to the
communities, as I understand it, if you are a rural community
or a hard-to-reach community, the most important thing is
getting these partnerships, because they are the ones who know
the people, they know how to get the count.
So, I would like GAO to respond, if you could, Mr. Mihm. In
your report you warned that the Census Bureau is, and I picked
a quote out, quote, ``faces significant risk that could
adversely impact and cost quality, schedule, and security of
the count,'' end quote. I want to know, is that right, and
would you elaborate a little bit?
Mr. Mihm. Yes, ma'am, that is right, and on two of the
points that the director was just mentioning on that, it is
noteworthy and positive that the recruiting numbers are going
up, and that is exactly where we would want them to be, and
they are some ambitious targets.
But what we have seen with census experience, certainly in
the three or four of them that I have been responsible for
assisting the Congress in oversight, is that you can bleed
through your recruitment base very, very quickly, and, not
unexpectedly, you have turnover in that.
And so the second part of that is that the national
numbers, we focus on those, obviously, and the Bureau does as
well, but that is not, as the director mentioned, where the
census is implemented. It is implemented at a local level, and
so it is concerning for us that you have those 200 of 248 local
offices that haven't met their own targets on that, because
that----
Chairwoman Maloney. On that point----
Mr. Mihm. Yes, ma'am.
Chairwoman Maloney.--and I want to quote from your report,
you said the Bureau is behind, quote, ``in its goal to recruit
more than 2.6 million applicants nationwide for upcoming
operations.'' And then your report said that 2.1 million
applicants recruited as of February 3, 2020, fall short of the
Bureau's larger target to reach more than 2.5. Are those
numbers correct, and could you elaborate a little bit?
Mr. Mihm. Yes, ma'am. I mean, they were correct, as the
director noted. This is very much a moving target with
literally thousands of new applicants every day. But as of even
earlier this week they were the correct numbers that we
received from the Census Bureau.
Chairwoman Maloney. OK. You know, and also you missed--this
quote, I think, is an important one, because I think that one
of the most important parts about the census is having these
community partnerships----
Mr. Mihm. Yes, ma'am.
Chairwoman Maloney.--in place. And your report finds you
missed interim milestones for establishing community partners.
Is that right, and how damaging is that? And my time has
expired after you respond.
Mr. Mihm. Yes, ma'am, it is a concern, because certainly in
the environment that we are now, now the larger cultural
environment is that we need people to be encouraged to
participate in the census, as you saw from the ad that the
director showed, to believe in the integrity of their data.
This is what partnerships do, is that they are trusted voices
in the community that can tell people you need to--we need to
participate--they use the ``we'' language. We need to
participate. It is good for us, good for the community, and
your data will be protected. That is not something that can
come out of Washington or Suitland, Maryland. That has to come
from trusted local voices. That is the importance of the
partnerships.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you so much. I now want to
recognize the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Grothman. He is
recognized for really six minutes, because I talked for six
minutes.
Mr. Grothman. Oh my goodness.
Chairwoman Maloney. So, you are recognized, and I thank all
of you. We all have the same goal, to get an accurate count.
Mr. Grothman. Sounds like a basketball player calling a
foul on themselves. I can't believe it. Thank you. Very honest.
Mr. Dillingham, first of all I want to nail down who we are
trying to count here. OK, if I am tourist, do we count a
tourist?
Mr. Dillingham. We do not count tourists.
Mr. Grothman. OK. If I am a college student who is here for
six months, do we count the college student?
Mr. Dillingham. We count college students if they are
living here at the time of the census. And so the six-months is
a close call there as to how long they will be living here.
Mr. Grothman. OK. Well, if I live in--if my parents live
in--well, pretend I am 18 again--if my parents live in
Wisconsin and I go to college in Illinois, am I counted in
Illinois or Wisconsin?
Mr. Dillingham. The methodology that was used for decades
is we count where people are living. So, we actually count at
the college campus.
Mr. Grothman. OK. So, then how do we make sure then the
people isn't counted in that case, in Wisconsin? If the parents
fill out the form and say, ``Sonny is with me,'' and somebody
else is going around to the college dorm at the University of
Illinois, how do we make sure that that person is not counted
twice?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, that is a very good question
and we have very elaborate procedures, and that is one place
where we really rely on our administrative data, that sort of
behind the scene we are matching up. So, if there is a
duplicate submission, if the college student answers the census
at the university or the college, and then the parent maybe
answers on their behalf, back in the hometown, we reconcile
that and we eliminate that.
Mr. Grothman. And you are confident you can do that?
Mr. Dillingham. Yes, we can.
Mr. Grothman. How about if somebody just goes somewhere to
live with a buddy for a month?
Mr. Dillingham. We do ask the individual where they are
living, and we will, you know, probe as to where they are
living, and where they report as being living that is where we
count them.
Mr. Grothman. How about if I am a tourist but overstay my
visa?
Mr. Dillingham. If you are a tourist and you tell us that
you are here only temporarily, as a tourist, that is the
information we have, and if you are from another country then I
would assume that to be correct.
Mr. Grothman. OK. How about if I am here just illegally and
I should be leaving? At what point is that somebody who is
countable?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, we count everyone, wherever
they are living.
Mr. Grothman. OK. So, if I am a diplomat am I counted?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, there are some very narrow
exceptions that if you are a living at a consulate then we
don't count people that are actually at the consulate, which is
owned by the other country.
Mr. Grothman. OK. How about if I am not living at a
consulate? How about if I am living here in town but work at a
consulate and I am stationed here for four months?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, the four-months would
probably--if you are here on April 1, and you answer that you
are living here, and do not indicate, when we ask the
questions--and I am going to ask the person with the most
experience here who actually oversees the census--but that is a
question where we probe further as to the length of time you
are living here and in what capacity.
Mr. Grothman. This is kind of scary because we are not
nailing this down.
Go ahead, Mr. Fontenot.
Mr. Fontenot. Mr. Congressman, the question is asked,
``Where do you live or stay most of the time as of April 1?''
and our census relies on self-declaration. So, if the person
says, ``I live or stay at this address most of the time, as of
April 1,'' they are counted at that address.
Mr. Grothman. OK. And ``most of the time'' could mean I am
returning to France in a month, but I should still put down
that I am a U.S. citizen? Most of the time, what, over the last
week? Over the last five years?
Mr. Fontenot. Generally we use a guideline of around six
months.
Mr. Grothman. OK. So, if I am a diplomat who is here for
six months and a day I am supposed to be counted.
Mr. Fontenot. That is correct.
Mr. Grothman. And is that clear on the form?
Mr. Fontenot. It is clear in the additional instructions to
the form. We provide----
Mr. Grothman. OK. Now----
Mr. Fontenot [continuing]. Our online----
Mr. Grothman [continuing]. Yep----
Mr. Fontenot [continuing]. Census would provide dropdown
information. It gives you details in the dropdown information
of exactly how to answer the question.
Mr. Grothman. I am going to ask you this. It seems to me
when cheating goes on, and, of course, what people are worried
about here is cheating in elections, usually people--there is
at least a perception that people vote twice or that sort of
thing.
What are you doing to make absolutely certain that if
somebody, say, wants to say more people are living in a state
than are, that somebody is not filling out that form three
times under three different names? How do we know that is not
happening?
Mr. Fontenot. We have very elaborate post-collection de-
duplication processes which use administrative records, prior
census information, IRS data, to verify that we are only
counting people one time. This is not a unique and new process.
Mr. Grothman. Well, I am going to ask you again. I am glad
I have the extra minute. Thank you. If I am somebody on a farm
in California and somebody fills out the form for me, and one
day I am John Smith, and then I fill out the form on Ted Jones,
and then I fill out the form on Billy Johnson, how do we know
that somebody isn't sitting there cheating and filling out
under three different names?
Mr. Fontenot. We compare the census data we receive to
other data we already have on that area--population estimates,
other survey data--and if there are abnormalities in the count
we are able to detect them at that time. And then we actually
will send someone out to verify those people's identify. A
person will physically go out and verify.
Mr. Grothman. If I do that, how is that going to be caught?
If I am somebody who wants to cheat, if I am somebody who wants
to say there are more people in such-and-such a county in
California than there are, and I sit down and fill out the form
under 10 different names----
Mr. Fontenot. We send out an enumerator to actually verify
that you exist at that address?
Mr. Grothman. So, everybody is going to get somebody to
show up and count that person? I mean, if I live in Greenbush,
Wisconsin, is somebody eventually going to count me, or no?
Mr. Fontenot. Yes.
Mr. Grothman. There will be a person who looks at me in
Greenbush, Wisconsin, you are telling me.
Mr. Fontenot. To verify that your data--if you data is
inconsistent with what----
Mr. Grothman. No, not inconsistent. Not inconsistent. I am
not saying inconsistent. I am saying I just sit there and fill
out 10 forms of 10 names that were not in the United States 10
years ago, are you going to catch that?
Mr. Fontenot. Yes. That would be inconsistent data. That
would come up. Our post-collection processes would bring that
information to the light. That is when we send people out to
verify.
Mr. Grothman. OK. I will give a written question later, but
thank you very much for giving me the extra minute.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman's time has expired. The
gentlewoman from the District of Columbia, Ms. Norton, is
recognized for five minutes.
Ms. Norton. I thank you, Madam Chair. This is an important
hearing, and I am particularly interested in the notion that
the census is going digital, and that for the first time people
are going to be asked to respond on the internet. I must tell
you, the Iowa primary debacle comes to mind when I think of the
census going digital. So, I am interested in the Bureau's plans
in the event that the systems, in fact, experience some kind of
attack or disaster.
The IG wrote something that really terrifies me. The 2020
census cloud environment did not have disaster recovery options
capable of restoring data lost in the event of a large-scale
attack or disaster, which suggests lost data that we could
never recover. And, of course, the inspector general made
several recommendations.
I suppose I should ask you, Mr. Dillingham, have you made
upgrades to ensure that the data would not be lost in the event
of a disaster? Can you assure us that you could always recover
data?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, we remedied all of the issues
that were pointed out by the inspector general, and we have
satisfied with the testing of our system, and we do have
redundant storage.
In the event that there was some type of a catastrophe in
which people could not reply online, and our associate director
can address this, he can tell you how many millions of
additional forms that we have prepared on paper, and we are
ready to mobilize a different process to people who could
respond on paper. But we don't foresee that happening in any
way, and in no way is that comparable to what happened----
Ms. Norton. But I am talking about data that is lost. I am
talking about recovering data, not people who are using pen and
pencil, but recovering data from people who have used the
internet to respond.
Mr. Dillingham. I can assure you----
Ms. Norton. Who have digitally responded, I should say.
Mr. Dillingham [continuing]. I can assure you that we have
worked with the best minds in the private industry and the best
in the intelligence communities, and our systems are
continuously monitored 24/7.
Ms. Norton. So, if you lost data--let me ask the inspector
general. Are you satisfied that at some point all data could be
recovered if there was some attack or some kind of disaster?
Mr. Marinos. Well, Ms. Norton, the report that you referred
to was from the IG. GAO has also been on record as emphasizing
the importance of contingency planning, so that disaster
recovery planning. We mentioned in our report that we are
issuing today that we are still waiting to see the Bureau
finalize their plans, and as I mentioned in my opening
statement, this is especially important given that we are just
one month away from internet self-response going live. So, it
is important for the Bureau not only to document what it is
going to do in the event that a primary system needs to fail
over to a backup system, and so that is why we continue to
emphasize that as a key point.
Ms. Norton. All right. I looks like we don't have the
contingency. We don't have any way to recover data that is
lost, and that--I have been waiting for that response, that
report. Yes, Mr. Fontenot.
Mr. Fontenot. Yes, Congressman Norton, if I may, we store
the data in multiple areas in the cloud to ensure security, and
we back that up regularly. We can recover data if we had a
breach or a situation like that, that would----
Ms. Norton. That is really all I want to know.
Mr. Fontenot. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Norton. If you are assuring us that you can always
recover data.
Mr. Fontenot. And in the worst case we would send someone
out to recollect that data.
Ms. Norton. But I want to ask you, though--I want to ask
you because I am waiting for this report that you say is coming
in--I was concerned with a testimony we have received from the
National Latina Elected and Appointed Officials, and this is
what they say. ``I firmly believe that we need a Plan B and
that the Census Bureau needs to make sure it has adequate
supply of paper forms at the ready should something happen and
the computer load capacity not work, as we saw previously in
health.gov.''
So, I am going to ask Mr. Marinos, does the Census Bureau
currently have enough paper forms to use in the event of a
system failure?
Mr. Marinos. They do, Ms. Norton. So, I think it is
important to note that the internet self-response option is
just one of many ways that the public can respond to the
survey. And I can defer to the Bureau for the specifics, but
what I can convey is that their approach to how they are going
to interface with the public is directly tied to the
availability of the internet within those areas. So, the
approach that they may take may include actually providing a
written form, a paper form, for someone to fill out, or may
have a postcard first be the thing that gets sent to encourage
folks to go online.
In the event that someone does not respond to the survey
online, the Bureau has plans to eventually provide them with a
paper form, and if they don't fill that out have an enumerator,
have a counter actually knock on their door.
Ms. Norton. That is reassuring. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Lynch.
[Presiding.] The gentlelady yields. The chair now
recognizes the gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. Massie, for five
minutes.
Mr. Massie. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It looks like a lot of
the contingencies depend on the self-response rate. How did you
estimate the self-response rate, and how do you think it is
going to change this decade because of the internet option?
Either Mr. Dillingham or Mr. Fontenot.
Mr. Fontenot. Congressman, we estimate the self-response
rate based on a number of historical census work we have done.
The 2010 census was a starting point. We looked at the 2016
test, the 2018 test, and a test we did in 2019, and we also
conferred with our colleagues from other censuses throughout
the world. One of the things we are seeing on a global basis is
people's propensity to respond to surveys and censuses has
declined over the last two, three decades, and therefore we are
projecting 60.5 percent response rate, which is lower than the
total response rate we had in the 2010 census at the same point
in time.
To tie to the chart we had over there--I am pointing to
air, but to tie to the chart we had over there, the top line
assumed a 55 percent self-response rate, which is lower than
any of our models projected. Our models tend to project the
midrange expected rate just over 60 percent.
Mr. Massie. How does the response rate, the self-response
rate, differ between the short form and the American Community
Survey?
Mr. Fontenot. The American Community Survey, as you know
now, was offered in every county in the country, and has two
modes. It used to have three modes. It has two modes. It is
sent out in paper form and then we send out an actual field
representative to collect the data. The completed response rate
for that is in the 90 percent range, but the self-response rate
for mail-back is lower than we would expect for a census. A
census is basically a 10-question form versus the multipage
American Community Survey.
Mr. Massie. Right. I have got a copy of both and it looks
like if I got this in the mail it would take me--I would put a
lot more thought into it before I responded on my own.
Mr. Fontenot. And it is a lower response rate than we get
on censuses. Correct.
Mr. Massie. If somebody gets the long one in the mail----
Mr. Fontenot. They don't get that as part of the census.
They get that as part of the American Community Survey.
Mr. Massie. OK. So, it is in addition. It is not one or the
other.
Mr. Fontenot. That is correct. Prior to 2005----
Mr. Massie. Everybody gets the short one.
Mr. Fontenot [continuing]. Prior to 2005 that was the
census long form.
Mr. Massie. OK. Gotcha. That helps a lot. And what is your
goal on response rate for the ACS?
Mr. Fontenot. I can get back to you on that.
Mr. Massie. OK.
Mr. Fontenot. Our total response rate goal is over 90, but
that includes the people going around knocking on doors to
collect data.
Mr. Massie. So, I was able to go to the internet and try
out at least the front page of this on my mobile device, and I
am glad to report I could see it, even on an antiquated mobile
device, although it had that Captcha, you know, the ``I am not
a robot'' thing at the front of it. And the house admin here
required I put that on my congressional page, and I don't want
it on my page because I know a lot of people give up when they
get to that Captcha thing. And I know it is for internet
security, but, Mr. Mihm, do you anticipate that is going to
slow down the response rate? Is that ``I am not a robot''
thing, is that on the short form when you go to respond?
Mr. Mihm. My understanding is that that is not on the
census form.
Mr. Massie. OK.
Mr. Mihm. The issue you are raising, sir, is exactly right.
In prior censuses we used to have two forms. We had the short
form, the one that you are holding there, and a version of the
American Community Survey, called the long form. The response
rates were like 10 percentage points difference on that.
Congress and the Bureau said this is--you know, it is
taking too much time and effort in the context of the decennial
census to do the long form. Let's strip that out and have a
completely different survey on a different timeframe, and that
is the American Community Survey that you are referencing
there.
And so the 10 or so questions on the short form are now the
only form. That is what, as was mentioned, the Bureau is
looking for a 60.5 percent response rate.
Mr. Massie. Can people use their telephone to do the short
form?
Mr. Fontenot. Yes, sir.
Mr. Massie. OK.
Mr. Fontenot. For the census we have three ways to
respond--online, by phone, or on paper.
Mr. Massie. OK. Well, that sounds good to me. Is there a
way to ensure integrity of the data as the deadline approaches?
Let me just tell you a story, and this may be a apocryphal,
okay. But a census worker that I know, back in the community,
either 10 or 20 years ago, said when they got toward the end of
the census the manager said, ``Just drive by and count the
number of bicycles in the yard and take a guess on how many
kids are there.''
Now, what I am concerned about is as the deadlines
approach, the integrity of the data goes down. The example I
gave you is anecdotal and maybe it happened, maybe it didn't.
But I am sure there is a lot of pressure toward the end to skip
a few steps. And maybe that is designed into the system. You
know, maybe a little bit a day is better than none. But what
are the steps that you are taking to make sure when you get
toward the deadlines that they don't start cutting too many
corners?
Mr. Fontenot. We are working very closely with the managers
of the local census offices and the census field supervisors to
ensure that process is followed throughout the census.
Now, to your point, if we have a person that is only
willing to give some data toward the end of the census, we will
take the data that they provide, because, truly, the purpose of
the census is to get a population count for apportionment of
the seats in the House. So, we will take partial data, but
actual respondent data or proxy data or administrative record
data.
One of the things that enhances our ability to get verified
data in 2020 is we are using administrative records, the data
the government has collected for other purposes, to be able to
fill in places where we do not get people's responses.
Mr. Massie. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Lynch. The gentleman yields. The chair now recognizes
the gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Raskin, for five minutes.
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. This
committee has been focused like a laser beam on the census. We
have a constitutional duty to make sure that all persons are
counted in the United States. This is necessary for fair
elections. It is necessary for fair and efficient distribution
of governmental resources. So, we have been focused from the
beginning on this. Any suggestion that this committee is
somehow responsible for the problems experienced by the Census
Bureau is, of course, absurd.
It was the Trump administration, not this committee, that
tried for nearly a year to add an illegal citizenship question
to the census, and, of course, was tied up in courts for months
until the Supreme Court did the obvious and struck down the
citizenship question as completely outside of the normal
administrative process. The Administration should have been
focusing on preparing for the census and dealing with all the
complexities of the census rather than advancing this flawed
and doomed political agenda.
But this committee has been focused on preparing for the
census as a top priority for more than two years now. On March
6 of 2019, we held a hearing on GAO's high-risk list and
highlighted concerns about census preparations. On May 29,
2019, our Subcommittee on Civil Rights and Civil Liberties,
which I chair, held a hearing in New York at the intersection
of the districts of Chairwoman Maloney and the vice chair of
our subcommittee, Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, on what states and local
communities are doing to prepare for the 2020 census and how
they can be more actively engaged in the process.
On July 24 of last year, the subcommittee held another
hearing and heard testimony from the director of the Census
Bureau and the GAO, and on January 9 of this year, the
committee held a hearing with experts and advocates on the risk
of an undercount, and what we are doing to combat it. And on
January 21 we wrote a letter to the Census Bureau seeking
documents on critical aspects of census planning, including
hiring technology and planning for potential disasters. Our
staff has held more than 20 briefings with the Bureau and the
GAO during this Congress alone.
So, I am proud of the work that this committee has been
doing to ensure that the 2020 census is a success. I am proud
that we helped to overcome the Administration's outrageous
attempts to sabotage the census with its illegal citizenship
question that was struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Dr. Dillingham, I wanted to ask you a question. I have
heard from some of my constituents that the Census Bureau may
be placing ads with media outlets that are primarily owned or
influenced by the Chinese government in the Asian American
community. They appear to be suggesting that Chinese
government-influenced companies have somehow gotten the market
on our census outreach in the Asian American community. And I
am just wondering if you know anything about this, and what the
Bureau might be doing to make sure that the media companies
that we are using are based in the United States and free from
foreign government influence.
Mr. Dillingham. Sure. First, Congressman Raskin, let me
thank you and let me thank all the Members of Congress from the
state of Maryland, and there have been--both with this
committee and the former chairperson of this committee, I have
appeared in Baltimore with him and with others. I have been to
your district. We met with the entire Maryland delegation and
we very much appreciate your commitment to getting a full
count.
Now with regard to--and I understand it was either in the
press or in the social media, about this Chinese influence. The
information I received it was absolutely false. We had no
contract with that entity, and there was no media engagement
with that foreign-owned entity whatsoever. But we can provide
you details on that, but I am told that story was absolutely
false.
But to the larger question of our media campaign, this is,
in fact, the largest media campaign ever for the decennial
census, and it is very important that we get it right. The
commercials, we had two this morning, and I think they captured
some attention from some of the people in the room, but we have
dozens upon dozens of advertisements. We have contracts with
all sorts of firms that reach the hard-to-count communities and
reach the diverse communities, and we are very proud, and we
have very specifically tailored advertising, even in certain
languages, that reach those communities.
But I noticed when we went to your community, for example,
you have a very diverse community. You have an area, if I could
use the term, it is called Korean Corner. And in that area
there was local newspapers at the supermarket, et cetera, and
we discussed, with a partnership specialist, the possibilities
of how we can get some of our advertising into that local
media, in the channels that they use, and in the publications
and other--and the radio stations and stuff that they may be
listening to.
So, we will be glad to work with you. We are working with
you. We have heard of tremendous progress being made in your
district and the state of Maryland, and we still have work to
do.
Mr. Raskin. Well, and I appreciate that very much. I
appreciate your openness and your willingness to work with
communities such as ours. And I would just encourage you to
make sure that the media outreach is as diverse as possible, as
you are suggesting, and that we not be captured by any
particular group, certainly if it is influenced by foreign
government. Again, I don't know if there is a reality there but
there is certainly word in the community about that, so I
appreciate you clearing it up.
I yield back.
Mr. Lynch. The gentleman yields. The chair now recognizes
the ranking member, the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Jordan, for
five minutes.
Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It sounded like, Mr.
Dillingham, or Director Dillingham, when GAO gave their opening
comments that it was sort of good news/bad news. The good news
is the Census Bureau, I think you said, Mr. Mihm, that early
operations are on schedule, and that is great and
congratulations on that. But then on the number of applicants
you need, to get the employees you need, it sounded like you
were behind in both numbers--2.5 million you need in
applicants, over half a million you need of actual enumerators,
people out doing it. It sounds like you are behind on the
partnership issue, and then, of course, Mr. Marinos talked
about IT and cybersecurity concerns as well.
So, I just want to give you a chance to say, are you going
to get there? Congratulations on being there on the early stuff
but now it is the real deal, and frankly I think Members of
Congress and the country would like to know that you are going
to get there. And you had some charts up earlier but I just
want to give you a chance to respond to those. It seems like
four issues were raised and three of them we have got some
concerns, so talk about that those three.
Mr. Dillingham. Sure.
Mr. Jordan. And then if we want GAO to jump in and tell me,
I want to know if you guys think they are going to get there.
Mr. Dillingham. I thank you very much, and certainly would
enjoy them--I certainly invite them to also join in as needed.
You know, I said, to begin with we set very ambitious
goals, and one of the goals showed a straight line to reach the
worst-case scenario. We operate by three scenarios, but we want
to make sure we recruit people the worst-case scenario, the 2.7
million. We will reach that in the first week in March, and we
are going to exceed that.
Mr. Jordan. OK.
Mr. Dillingham. So, we have 2.3 million applicants already,
completed applications, 2.5 million have begun. So, we are
quite confident. These people are not yet being hired. They are
going to be enumerators. So, we are very pleased and we are
going to exceed that goal, on the recruiting and hiring.
On the partnerships, the same thing. We are going to exceed
our goals, yes, and we appreciate GAO. We provide them with the
information of our schedules and our goals, and they look at
it, and they will remind us, ``Oh, you didn't meet your goal
here.'' And they will say, ``Whenever you don't meet your goal,
that presents a risk,'' and to some extent they are right, and
we appreciate that.
But, you know, when we started the census, and we had the
original plan, we had more than 27,000 tasks to do, and we have
schedules for those tasks, and we have testings of our system,
25,000 tasks. So, when we get down to the fine numbers it is
very important, and we do work, and whenever they identify a
risk we address those risks. And I think they will tell you we
have a very good track record.
So, our systems are tested. Recruiting is going to exceed
our most ambitious goal. Our partnerships already surpass the
last decennial census, by the point they had reached at the end
of the census, and we are a month out before we even do the
first mailing.
So, we are way ahead of what is needed. Did we deviate from
the schedule?
Mr. Jordan. Applicants, employees, or numerators--you feel
good, and you feel good about the partnership as well.
Mr. Dillingham. Absolutely.
Mr. Jordan. Tell me about the IT concerns. Have you got
any----
Mr. Dillingham. The IT----
Mr. Jordan. And then I want to give GAO a chance to tell me
if you are giving it to us straight, which I assume you are,
but give them a chance to respond.
Mr. Dillingham. With our IT I can tell you that we have not
missed any operational or testing deadlines for the 2020
census. There are the risks, as I pointed out, any time we have
anything pending, and so we are on a track. But all 2020 census
IT systems have been successfully tested and deployed, or are
on track for deployment.
For example, we have a system that will deal with the post-
enumeration survey, which is after the completion of the
census, to double-check, another way of looking at our numbers.
Now we have tested that system in the past and it worked, but
we are going to test it again.
Mr. Jordan. OK.
Mr. Dillingham. So, we feel very comfortable. The
professional census has a high degree of confidence.
Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Director, and I appreciate all the
hard work. I know you are working hard. I want to give GAO the
last minute to respond.
Mr. Mihm. Thank you, Mr. Jordan, and I know Nick will talk
about the IT in just a moment. The good news is we are working
off with the Census Bureau is a common set of facts, and so we
would agree with him on the data on that point. On the other
hand, I am from GAO and I am paid to worry on your behalf.
So, I think the big concern that we have operationally is
that these numbers can be looking good at a top level, even
though we haven't met some interim goals. But the concern is
the response rate. It is--the 60.5 percent, which is what they
are hoping to achieve, would still have a 61 million households
for followup. You can bleed through a recruitment base very,
very quickly in hiring the enumerators for that. And so--and if
it gets up to obviously the 55 or it goes as low as the 55
percent, which would be, you know, very bad, as the Bureau
mentioned, you are at 66.7 million households that you would
have to followup on.
So, in a month from now, or, you know, six weeks from now,
when we start seeing the response rate, that is going to really
give us all a good feeling or a really similar concern. And I
know Nick will talk about the IT.
Mr. Marinos. I think the title of our report talks about a
mixed preparedness, and I think that is fair, because in many
ways the positives are there. We have seen the Bureau able to
successfully, you know, deploy dozens of systems in support of
five of the operations to date.
The reality, and where the risk is, and where my worry
resides is just in the time, right. We are sort of in a
pressure cooker of time to get a lot of things done, and the
Bureau has, in particular, two key operations coming up in just
the next couple of months. You mentioned in your statement as
well, Mr. Jordan, about the fact that we are one month away
from internet self-response, and we are also just over two
months away from the beginning of the enumeration process too.
So, the Bureau has a lot of work ahead of it to complete the
testing that it is done.
Now, to its credit, and accurate to what Dr. Dillingham has
said, they have put a lot of effort into that testing. And, in
fact, what I mentioned earlier about the decision to switch
from one system to another was the result of the rigorous
testing that they Bureau is undertaking.
So, at the end of the day I think the risk still exists
because of the amount of work that the Bureau has to do within
a short period of time.
Mr. Jordan. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Mr. Lynch. The gentleman yields. The chair recognizes the
gentlewoman from Florida, Ms. Wasserman Schultz, for five
minutes.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Dillingham, I think we can agree that the stakes are
too high for the Census Bureau to have a one-size-fits-all
approach to advertising and community outreach, and I can
certainly appreciate that you have a large volume of community
partnership relationships.
In my district, Florida's 23d, I am proud to represent a
majority minority community that is filled with people from all
over the world, including the largest concentration of
Venezuelans, for example, of any other district. Effectively
communicating and building trust with my constituents is going
to be notably different in terms of the way we connect with
them and reach out to them than it would be just a few miles up
the road on 95.
I am very concerned that the Census Bureau has not taken
seriously your responsibility to understand all the communities
that you must reach to have a complete and accurate count.
Now we know one way to build relationships in hard-to-count
communities is to enlist local businesses, for example, and
groups to be Census Bureau Ambassadors. Dr. Dillingham, the
House Democratic Caucus, the Tri-Caucus, and the Census Caucus
wrote you recently requesting information on the status of the
Bureau's Community and National Partnership Engagement
Programs, and asked for a response by December 13, 2019. The
answer that you finally provided just last night was nearly two
months late and woefully incomplete.
The letter requested a list of the name and location of
every local partner organization in the United States,
organized by congressional district, which I know is entirely
possible. We have gotten it before. You responded by saying the
work is still ongoing, because that list is growing, and you
have committed to only release organizations that, quote,
``have given permission to be listed as a public partner.''
That is baffling, because if you are a public partner one would
think that you would be public. It is a little tough to know
how to partner with an organization that is not willing to make
themselves known.
So, what exactly is the purpose of having a community
partner to help promote the importance of filling out the
census if that partner is not public? And Census Day is less
than eight week away, so when will you commit to providing the
complete list of local partners, broken down by congressional
district, because for all of us it is important for us to know
who we can work with in our local communities. I have been very
engaged in my, you know, my Count Committee locally, and it
would be really helpful to know which organizations in my
district have had a formal relationship with you. And will you
also provide information about how you define what you consider
to be a local partner, because that would be helpful too.
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, let me first begin by saying
that I was in Broward County. The partners there were
absolutely fabulous.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. I agree.
Mr. Dillingham. When I went to the Broward County complete
count committee, we actually ran out of time when they were
going over all the contributions that all the members of that
committee are meeting. The room was filled with partners.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Right. I know, Dr. Dillingham. We
have a very well-organized complete count committee.
Mr. Dillingham. Yes.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. I have been very much a part of
that, and helped launch it.
Mr. Dillingham. Absolutely, and you----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. I would like an answer to my
question.
Mr. Dillingham. OK. And you defined the responsibility and
need absolutely correctly. I agree with you. On the----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Everyone isn't as supportive of it
as I am.
Mr. Dillingham [continuing]. We hope to get--when people
completed, over the past year or so, signed up as partner, I am
informed that we need to double-check. Some may not have given
us permission, at the time, to go public, but my understanding
is----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. You realize that makes no sense,
right?
Mr. Dillingham [continuing]. My understanding is we will be
releasing those documents. They are under review.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. When?
Mr. Dillingham. And that is beyond----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. When?
Mr. Dillingham [continuing]. I hope today----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. And why did it take----
Mr. Dillingham [continuing]. Or tomorrow----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz.--why did it take until two days ago
for you to respond to a letter that we asked for a response by
December 13?
Mr. Dillingham. Well, I think one of the current issues is
the release of that information, which is under review.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. OK. That doesn't make any sense. The
length of time since the letter was sent----
Mr. Dillingham. Sure.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz.--until two days ago is more than
enough time. Up until the December 13, you had more than enough
time to get the answers to the questions, to get permission
from the public organizations that are partners on the census.
Mr. Dillingham. Sure.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Otherwise they shouldn't be partners
if they are not willing to make their names public. And again,
the census is less than eight weeks away. If you are really
committed to reaching hard-to-count communities, then we need
that information right now.
Mr. Dillingham. I agree to do whatever I can to get you
that information as soon as possible.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. OK. So, today is Wednesday. Can we
be assured of having it by Friday?
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, it is in a review process
that I do not control.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. OK. Well, who does control it?
Mr. Dillingham. All documents that leave the Department of
Commerce go through a review process.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. I understand. Who controls whether
and when that information is released to the public, to Members
of Congress, so we can make sure that we can maximize the count
of hard-to-count communities?
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, I will certainly----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. You can't tell me who it is--who is
in charge? Who is in charge of giving you permission to release
that information? And is it actually finished and they are just
not letting you release it?
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, I will have to get back to
you.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Is it finished and you are being
told you cannot release it?
Mr. Dillingham. I would be totally honest if it was--if I
knew the answer.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. You don't know who it is?
Mr. Dillingham. It is in review process.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. I am sorry.
Mr. Dillingham. When it gets through the review process----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Are you honestly telling me that you
don't know who is in charge of letting you know that you can
release it? You don't know or you won't tell me?
Mr. Dillingham. I will let you know when I get the
determination that it is releasable. I actually expect it very
soon.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. No. I want you to let me know now
who is preventing you from releasing it? Who is--who do you
answer to that is directly responsible for telling you you can
release the information? Who? Position, title, name?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, I honestly do now know what
was involved in the review process.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. OK. You are the Director of the
Census and you don't know who is responsible for reviewing the
items that you have been asked to produce for the Congress?
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, I know that ultimately
people review it and look to see that it is in accordance with
law and whatever rules and regulations may apply. And I am not
fulfilling that legal responsibility----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. You know you were sworn in at the
start of this hearing, right, and that you are supposed to be
telling the truth to our committee when we ask you questions?
Mr. Dillingham. Absolutely, Congresswoman.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. It really is hard to believe that
you don't know who is responsible for reviewing the materials
that you need permission to release when we ask for them.
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, I could generally refer to
people that are normally in the review process, and it is
usually people with legal responsibilities.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. How are you going to get the
permission if you don't know who to go to?
Mr. Dillingham. It will be communicated back to us when the
review is completed. I do not foresee delay.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. OK. We are eight weeks out from the
census, so I would like an answer today when the information is
going to be released, so we can effectively work across the
districts in the United States of American, with our public
community partners, and the Director of the Census Bureau
allows them to be public. Can you commit to that?
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, it is not that I am stopping
anyone. You work with them each and every day. You know many of
them.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. I don't know who they are.
Mr. Dillingham. And they can certainly----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. That is my question.
Mr. Dillingham [continuing]. They can certainly----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. No, no, no, no.
Mr. Dillingham. Yes.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. I don't know who they are. That is
my question. You know who they are, and you are not providing
the information to our Tri-Caucus, to our CBC, to our Census
Caucus. And you can't even tell me who it is that is holding it
up or who is responsible for reviewing it.
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. That is outrageous.
Mr. Dillingham [continuing]. We will review the process----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. It is a deliberate obstacle that you
are throwing in the path of trying to make sure that we can get
hard-to-count communities counted, and that is obvious. I would
like an answer----
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, I disagree----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz.--By the end of the week.
Mr. Dillingham [continuing]. With that characterization.
There is no deliberation. I would prefer that you get the list
today.
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. OK. Well, then please ask whoever--
send it up the food chain and try to figure out who it is that
is responsible for it, and let us know as soon as possible.
Mr. Dillingham. I will----
Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Thank you, Madam Chair, for your--
Mr. Chairman. I yield back. I appreciate your indulgence.
Mr. Lynch. The chair will afford equal time to the minority
with respect to questioning.
The gentlelady yields and the chair recognizes the
gentleman from Louisiana, Mr. Higgins, for five minutes.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, thank you
for your endeavor to serve our country by delivering an
accurate census count. Let me say that I believe sometimes we
can get a little too close to a particular mission and we lose
the 30,000-foot view. And perhaps this committee has been
overly focused on one particular aspect of the census count or
another. And I believe, as laws cite, exactly if we are
addressing the cultural change in our country since the last
census a decade ago, and despite the best efforts of the entire
census endeavor, including you gentlemen, and the many, many
scores of thousands of men and women that will attempt to serve
and gather data, I believe when we reconvene next year, those
of us that do, I think we are going to reflect upon this time
and wonder how we missed it so much.
The last decade in our Nation has seen an incredible
saturation of social media and communications, interactions
that we have not seen prior, and one of the aspects of that 24/
7 unending communications is the criminal endeavor, which every
American has been touched by. Over 10 years you had untold
millions of Americans have been victims of scams. Whole
government entities at the municipal, state, and Federal level
have fallen prey to scam, ransomware, et cetera.
Our American culture has been subjected to a continuous
barrage of criminal endeavor, all of which begin with the
request for personal information. A decade ago, when someone
knocked on your door, you answered your door. A decade ago, if
your phone rang, you answered the phone. This has changed.
So, I ask you, Mr. Dillingham, what is the census doing? Is
there an awareness of this? How are you going to penetrate this
culture of protection and secrecy that we have rightfully, as
an American citizenry, that we have responded to the barrage of
criminal attack that has been made manifest over the last
decade, how are you going to get through that? We have not
discussed this in this panel. This highly impacts the elderly
in our country. I believe we are going to reflect upon this
census effort a year from now and find it to be a failure
because we have failed to address this cultural change. I ask
you for a response, Mr. Dillingham.
Mr. Dillingham. Thank you very much for your statement of
some of the problems with regard to security and fraud, et
cetera. Let me begin to frame it at a higher level first, and
then our associate director, with many years of experience in
this can tell you what we are doing on the front line to combat
fraud and scams and that sort of thing.
It is very important, and as one of the commercials earlier
showed, that we protect the information that comes to the
Census Bureau. And we have an excellent track records. We have
stringent Federal laws that subject you to years in prison,
anyone who violates it. That has not happened. Congress passed
laws in the 1950's, under Title 13, to protect the privacy and
confidentiality of our data.
However, I think you are bringing up also what about in
conducting the census, are there opportunities for fraud, or
attempted fraud, and I think that our associated director can
tell you, from the front line----
Mr. Higgins. No. I am asking how are you going to conduct a
census in a nation where our culture has changed regarding the
wiling dissemination of our personal data.
Mr. Dillingham. Sure.
Mr. Higgins. If the phone rings now and it is not a known
contact, nobody in here answers the phone. If someone knocks on
your door, your elderly mom or pop, and they don't know who
that is, they don't answer the door, or they call the police.
How are you going to penetrate this?
Mr. Fontenot. Congressman, if I may, I think there are
three primary things that we are focused on. No. 1, you need to
have voices that people trust in the community, be they
pastors, be they community leaders, be they Congresspeople.
Your staff are trusted voices. If you have been an elected
official, by your people, they trust you.
So, we are saying, how do we, No. 1, get the trust----
Mr. Meadows. That may be a bridge too far.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Fontenot [continuing]. Saying that it is important for
them to participate and that their data is safe?
The second thing is the people going around knocking on
doors are from the community. The key to census hiring is
hiring people who live in the local community who are familiar
with the local community, who speak the languages, and can go
around and knock on the doors.
Mr. Higgins. Is there a plan to reach through those
avenues, sir, through pews and pulpits?
Mr. Fontenot. Yes, absolutely. We have a faith-based
program----
Mr. Higgins [continuing]. And town halls----
Mr. Fontenot [continuing]. Of how we talk to pastors, get
churches engaged, get churches engaged as partners. We have an
initiative, which is called Mobile Questionnaire Assistance,
which the Congress actually mandated that we set up for 2020,
and funded with $90 million in the last appropriation. The
Mobile Questionnaire Assistance allows the census person to go
to grocery stores, to assembly areas, where people are
assembled, with a device, and work with the people to actually
take their enumeration. Ideally they will work with the
partners and the community organizations in that neighborhood
to say, ``All right. What is good time? Can we assemble? Do you
have a church tea? At the VFW hall? At some event, and we will
be there. We can talk about how your information is safe. We
can take your information right there, at that point in time.''
Mr. Higgins. Well, I hope it works. We shall see. We all
want an accurate count. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your
indulgence. I yield.
Mr. Lynch. The gentleman yields. The chair now recognizes
the gentlewoman from Illinois, Ms. Kelly, for five minutes.
Ms. Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chair. This year marks the first
time the census will be conducted mostly online, yet almost a
quarter of American adults do not have access to high-speed
internet at home. This digital divide affects people of rural
areas who are less likely to have broadband access than other
Americans. My district is urban, suburban, and rural, and I
have done about six census briefings across my district, and
when we had the census briefing in my most rural area the
gentleman from the census said 40 percent of the people don't
have access to the internet. And, of course, as you know, this
is not just a rural issue, because I have had people in the
city of Chicago that don't have access.
According to data from Pew Research, 44 percent of adults
who earn less than $30,000 do not have broadband service at
home. Around one-third of Hispanic and black adults also lack
home broadband access. And only 59 percent of Americans 65
years and older have home broadband.
So, while the internet will make it easier for some people
to participate in the census, I am concerned that relying on
internet self-response will make counting hard-to-count
populations even harder.
So, Mr. Dillingham, what is the Census Bureau doing to make
sure that those homes without broadband access are counted in
2020, including those who live in areas where the Bureau is
using internet self-response?
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, thank you so much for that
question, and we have been in areas of New York and across the
country where the connectivity rates are low. Even in Alaska, I
can tell you stories there.
We are doing a lot, but keep in mind that one of the
important features of this census is people can answer in three
different ways. They can get on their phone, even a hard line.
It doesn't have to be a smart phone. Or they can answer on the
internet with a smart phone or with a computer, or they can do
it on paper.
So, in those areas that we have already determined the
connectivity is low, and our associate director can give you
great details on this, we are identifying those 20 percent of
the country where, in our first mailing, we send out the paper.
We send it out on paper. Now other areas we send it out on the
fourth mailing, and we do a total of five mailings if we
haven't heard from people. So, that is one way.
But in areas like New York City, et cetera, we have
partners all across the Nation. The American Library
Association has asked all of its member libraries across the
Nation to open their doors, and I have been to those libraries.
It is so important. And that is a way that people can--but it
is just not the libraries. It is the businesses, et cetera.
When I was in Baltimore, Maryland, they wanted a storefront
operation where people could come in and be assisted. We don't
do that. But in meeting with the mayor, former Senator from
Maryland, the former chair of this committee, et cetera, we
identified, in one day, going through the hard-to-count
communities, 80 different locations where people could use the
computer. So, if they want to use the computer there will be
more avenues than ever. At the same time, they can make a
simple toll-free call, they can do it on the way to work. We
don't want them to do it while driving a car. And they can
submit their information that way, or they can do it on paper,
and if they don't then we send someone to collect it from them.
Ms. Kelly. And also, this year the Census Bureau is using
Mobile Questionnaire Assistance Centers to provide on-the-
ground help for those who are struggling with their form.
However, to my knowledge, the Bureau has yet to release plans
for the locations of these Mobile Questionnaire Assistance
Centers. So, will these be available in areas with limited
broadband access?
Mr. Dillingham. They will, and we can give you a lot of
details and would be glad to brief you on that. But what we do,
one of the primary benefits of this, we can take the technology
into the communities and reach the hard-to-count, at events, et
cetera.
Now one of the things that we, and associate director can
tell you our schedule, we will start out in those low-response
areas. But wherever--we work with our partnership specialists
and the community--wherever there is an event, where everyone
points to a need, that you can reach these people. For example,
in the city of Detroit, it happened to be a donut shop. We can
bring the technology there and assist the people.
Ms. Kelly. OK. And then what efforts are you making to
educate individuals on how to fill the forms out, like, you
know, seniors or those with low English proficiency?
Mr. Dillingham. So, basically in our communications
campaign we kind of present an easy picture for them, but if
they have specific questions there are toll-free numbers. We
have 10 Customer Assistance Centers around the country, with
9,000 employees, taking the calls and giving assistance.
Ms. Kelly. OK. Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. Lynch. The gentlelady yields back. The chair recognizes
the gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. Comer, for five minutes.
Mr. Comer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know we are all
concerned a potential undercount. When the census was completed
10 years ago, immediately groups were claiming there was a
massive undercount. If you recall, can you answer this
question. The estimated undercount 10 years ago, were those
predominantly rural, were they urban, or was it a mix, or do we
know?
Mr. Dillingham. Let me start and then the specifics,
associate director can answer. You are exactly right. We have
to make sure that everyone is counted, and that undercount is
we are pulling out all the stops to reach both with the
technology the hard-to-count areas but also working with our
partners across the Nation that are so dedicated. And we have
got--we can tell you all those partners, the pediatrics groups,
et cetera, but let me turn it over to Al and he will give you
some more specifics.
Mr. Fontenot. Congressman, the largest areas of undercount
were actually demographic minorities, Hispanic, African
American, males, ages 18 to----
Mr. Comer. How do you know those were undercounted?
Mr. Fontenot. By very large numbers those were
undercounted, yes. That is where the majority of your
undercount lies.
You know, if I look at urban versus rural versus suburban
versus even the reservation areas, and I look at that, it is
not a consistent picture across those geographic type of areas.
For example, some states with large undercounts have primary
rural populations. Others are among our best counted in the
country. So, there is no consistency like that across.
Mr. Comer. Will there be----
Mr. Dillingham. Can I add one thing?
Mr. Comer. Yes.
Mr. Dillingham. A lot of people do get confused with self-
response and undercount. So, when communities, the hard-to-
count, are not self-responding, some people call that an
undercount. But at the end of the day, when we send the
enumerators around, we are going to get as close as possible to
a complete count.
Mr. Comer. Will there be a process to where before the
final count is official maybe you, I don't want to say leak,
but you disclose, all right, this is what it looks like it is
going to be in California, or this is what it looks like it is
going to be in Kentucky, and then if there are groups that feel
undercounted, whether they be groups in rural America or
minority groups they can have an opportunity to protest or
challenge that count?
Mr. Dillingham. No, Congressman. This is the count. But one
of the things that we do, as we analyze the data and determine
the response rates, and make sure we have accurate data, et
cetera, we do a very extensive post-enumeration survey that is
totally independent, that we match up with our results to see
how close they match. The last decennial census they came very,
very close.
Mr. Comer. All right. Mr. Chairman, I would like to yield
the balance of my time to my friend from Kentucky, Mr. Massie.
Mr. Lynch. The gentleman is recognized.
Mr. Massie. Thank you, Mr. Comer. Mr. Higgins touched on a
great point when he was here, that the culture has changed in
the last 10 years. People don't answer phone numbers that they
don't recognize. People don't open doors for people that they
don't know. And that is going to present a problem for you.
But something else has changed over the last decade. The
scammers have gotten better at getting people to respond to
their scams. And I am worried that they are going to take
advantage of your advertising campaign and they are going to
target people to collect their information, or to get their
foot in the door.
And so, in fact, I even saw a congressional piece of mail
that came from a congressional office that was made to look
like a census, so that they would get a better response rate
from constituents and collect their emails. There was no
nefarious purpose there, but it is well known that people do
respond to the census, more than a random email from somebody.
So, what are you doing to prevent it, but most importantly,
how fast are you going to be able to respond to these scams? I
have seen people use my name in mailings to try and get $20
from somebody to track their Social Security form or whatever.
And my frustration has been, and this is a tremendous
frustration with Facebook, it takes them days to stop a scam,
and then the scam starts up again because they were making
money.
So, if the chairman would indulge the witnesses and myself
to give them time to answer this question, can you tell me what
you are doing to prevent the scams, and what does your response
team look like, and what is your response rate going to be?
Mr. Dillingham. We are very concerned about that issue as
well, and I can tell you that we have a 24/7, what we call a
Fusion Center, that is manned with personnel, that is
continuously monitoring those activities. We meet every day on
those activities. We do have agreements with one of the
technology firms you just mentioned, as well as others, in
responding to it, as well as with the Federal agencies.
So, there are ways, and particularly with social media,
that we can correct the record. We can overcome the negative
with more positive and correct information, as well as having
some of those service providers, like Facebook and others, take
the information down.
So, we work with them. We have been working for them and
planning with them for many, many months, and we are monitoring
on a real-time basis each and every hour of every day.
Mr. Massie. My time has expired, but thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Mr. Lynch. The gentleman yields. The chair now recognizes
the gentleman from California, Mr. Rouda, for five minutes.
Mr. Rouda. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our
witnesses for being here today.
Dr. Dillingham, I just wanted to get a better understanding
of some of the outreach efforts to reach those that don't have
English as their primary language. My understanding is that one
in five people in America have a primary language other than
English that they speak at home, and that there are
approximately 400 languages and dialects here in the United
States.
I represent part of Little Saigon in Orange County, which
is the largest Vietnamese population outside of Vietnam, and,
you know, many of the individuals there are refugees who, not
only is Vietnamese their primary language, it is their only
language that they speak. Yet I know that from the paper census
we are only in English and Spanish, and that there are efforts
to reach those through the internet, but often people don't
have access to the internet.
So, what resources is the Census Bureau using to reach
those individuals who obviously aren't English or Spanish, so
the written ballot doesn't help, and also have challenges
accessing the internet?
Mr. Dillingham. That is a very good question. We are doing
more than ever before in that area. Actually, we provide
assistance in English and 12 other languages, and then we have
materials in 59 languages. So, we reach more than--far more
than 99 percent of the population with our language assistance.
However, as you mentioned, you mentioned 400 dialects, et
cetera. I saw figures recently that even the people that we
have hired, that we are hiring to work, represent 500 languages
and dialects. I didn't know there were that many. I knew there
was over 100, but there are many out there. And we will find--
if we find an individual that we have, there is a language
problem that doesn't fall within our materials, doesn't fall
within the assistance we provide, we will find an expert,
usually from an educational community or someone from that
person's community, to assist us to reach that individual,
particularly when it comes down to the actual enumeration.
But we are also doing outreach with our communications
campaign. We are developing more and more materials, and we
have focus groups, more than 120 focus groups, with a lot of
those groups that have special language needs.
Mr. Rouda. Doctor, if I could interrupt, could you maybe
bring that home in the sense for my community in Little Saigon?
What exactly is being done on the ground to make sure that we
are getting everyone there engaged and counted?
Mr. Dillingham. Well, one of the things certainly, and I
will turn it over to Mr. Fontenot, but we have our partnership
specialists from those communities, and we hire our enumerators
from those communities. So, that is actually one of the best
ways. But there are some others that perhaps our associate
director would like to mention.
Mr. Rouda. Thank you.
Mr. Dillingham. I think Dr. Dillingham hit on the two key
ones, that the partnership specialists that are hired to work
in that community are familiar with that community, they are
from that community, they are fluent in the languages in that
community. But our effort is to make sure we hire enumerators
who also speak the language, because they are from the
community.
In case of, point of fact, in Los Angeles, the regional
director of the Los Angeles region, Julie Lamb, is a Vietnamese
refugee, so she has a high sensitivity for your specific
community. But it is just not that community. We are looking at
every one of our diverse communities in terms of how can we
make sure that the people that come work in that community
relate to the people who live in that community, that they
understand our languages, they understand our customs, and they
are able to effectively take the census message in.
Mr. Rouda. Now let me ask you, going back to those who
don't speak English or Spanish as their primary language but
have access to the internet. My understanding is that there are
tutorial videos, but there are only two tutorial videos,
Spanish and English. This seems like a pretty easy lift on
behalf of you guys to be able to address this by adding
additional videos in other languages. Is there a commitment to
do that?
Mr. Fontenot. There are videos in other languages than
Spanish and English, yes.
Mr. Rouda. There are. In how many, roughly, if you know?
Mr. Fontenot. I will have to get that number and get back
to you.
Mr. Rouda. OK.
Mr. Fontenot. All 59.
Mr. Rouda. I am sorry?
Mr. Fontenot. All 59.
Mr. Rouda. All 59 primary languages are now with videos.
Mr. Fontenot. Have a video, yes.
Mr. Rouda. That is great to hear. Thank you. I appreciate
that.
And then, last, I know that we have had some difficulty and
some discussions about guides available to Native Hawaiian,
Pacific Islander languages and the Navajo, the only Native
American represented. Has that changed? Is that being addressed
to make sure that those subsets of the U.S. demographics are
being addressed?
Mr. Fontenot. The primary way we are going to reach those
subsets of the demographic is through hiring people from those
communities and using their language skills to help us actually
be effective in those areas.
Mr. Dillingham. And let me just add one thing. In working
and visiting in Hawaii, with some of those language challenges,
we actually have partners in Hawaii, and one of the great
contributions they make is that on their own they will
translate the promotional material. So, we do count on our
partners to assist. This is one of the most valuable areas of
assistance from our more than quarter of a million partners, is
the language assistance.
Mr. Rouda. Well, thank you for your answers, your hard
work, and your commitment, and, Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Lynch. The gentleman yields back. The chair now
recognizes the gentlewoman from West Virginia, Mrs. Miller, for
five minutes.
Mrs. Miller. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member
Meadows, and to all of you all for being here today.
Over the past year, we have met in this room to hold
hearings on the census. Unfortunately, due to the aggressive
partisan hearings that have dominated our attention, I feel
like our duty to conduct oversight over the census has been
severely lacking. We only have a month to do until our
constituents will begin responding to this very, very important
government program, and I truly hope that our efforts have been
enough.
My district is a representation of how difficult the census
can be to complete. Language is not an issue, but four of the
18 counties in my district have 100 percent of the population
living in hard-to-count neighborhoods. I have spent the last
year visiting every one of my 18 counties and I can tell you
first-hand how very rural my community is.
It is critical that we count each and every one of our
constituents, no matter how difficult it may be, and I thank
you, Mr. Dillingham, and all of you for being here today to
answer our questions and our concerns, and I think you are
doing a very good job.
Mr. Dillingham, in rural areas what is the Census Bureau's
plan to target those constituencies that are like mine?
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, we very much are engaged
with trying to reach those rural communities, and we know that
West Virginia has some particular challenges, particularly with
connectivity is one of the major challenges.
Our partnership program is one that is very important, that
we have partners all through every state. You have the Complete
Count Committee. We have our partners. But we are trying to
reach, in many different ways, and in administering the census
we focus on the hard-to-count, with some of the new
technologies that we have. When we have these mobile assistance
that can go out into those communities and they will collect--
help with the collection of the information, and we have the
partners in those communities, like the American Library
Association, et cetera.
So, I know that your community already has a lot of
partners, but we will work with them and make sure that
wherever they identify that need that we can respond to that
need, and that is why when we have these mobile resource
capabilities and we have a capability of monitoring, real-time,
during the census, our roam tool, which will show, in each
track, what the response rate is. And that will allow us to
say, oh, in this particular track, within West Virginia, we
need to devote more resources and we need to get there with our
mobile assistance and help them with the census.
So, those are some of the ways, in addition to the
communications campaign that we have, where we do by radio, by
newsprint, and other ways to reach those populations, as well
as the groups. There are many groups in the rural areas that we
work with that have agricultural connections, or perhaps in
West Virginia with mining communities and other activities and
professions in West Virginia. We will work through those, and
that is why business partners are also very important.
Mrs. Miller. Ironically, yesterday I was dealing with an
individual who can't get electricity to his home because you
have to go through several properties, and then you have to go
through a mining area. And I'm thinking, how do you count those
people when they don't even have electricity? So, that is
important.
Many of them have low mail-back response rates in 2010.
Have you learned from those challenges a strategy for targeting
those with households that have very, very low mail-back?
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, we do, and maybe our
associate director will add some more detail. But we start out
particularly looking at the last decennial census, and we
identify those low-response areas. We also, as was mentioned
earlier, we have the American Community Survey. That also
details for us each year what the response rates are in those
communities and what some of the challenges are. So, we use
that data. We have a data-driven response to reach those hard-
to-count people.
But let me ask our associate director if he has more to add
on that.
Mr. Fontenot. Congresswoman, one of the things that we do
is increase the number of enumerators that are going to be
working on the street in your community and non-response
followup, because we know that historically you have had some
low response rate areas, and therefore it says that means I
need to put more people on the street there.
So, our efforts are to make sure we hire enough people from
those communities to actually go around and knock on the doors
and collect the data and non-response followup, which is the
next phase.
The other thing that the director mentioned, and I had
mentioned earlier too, was our Mobile Questionnaire Assistance,
which is designed to enhance self-response by sending census
people out early to go around and spend time with the local
communities, helping them take their response on census
instruments, or if they are in areas of connectivity, using the
phone.
I do know the connectivity problems in your state. I spent
time at Beckley when we were doing the test, and I spent a week
there, wandering around, and lost connectivity many times. So,
yes, we are aware of those challenges, and we believe that
putting people on the ground directly will counter some of
those challenges.
Mrs. Miller. I appreciate that. I have run out of time.
Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. Lynch. The gentlelady yields. The chair recognizes the
gentlewoman from Michigan, Ms. Tlaib, for five minutes.
Ms. Tlaib. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are all rightfully
concerned about communities like mine that are at serious risk
of being undercounted in the 2020 census. But something I am
particularly concerned about is the lack of representation on
the form of people who look like me.
Starting in 2015, a research effort spanned years under the
previous Administration, led by the Office of Management and
Budget, by community organizations like ACCESS and the Arab
American Institute, and many others, which pushed to add the
new category to the 2020 survey called Middle Eastern/North
African, or what we call MENA.
In 2015, Director, the category went into the field for
testing, and based on the findings the Census Bureau
recommended the inclusion of the MENA category in the 2020
census. Despite these findings, however, the Census Bureau
announced, under the current Administration, that MENA category
would not be included in the census.
Dr. Dillingham, do I look white to you?
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, I think that if you tell me
what you identify with I think I would respect that.
Ms. Tlaib. Sure. So, Director, are you aware that people
like me who are Arab, Middle Eastern, North African, have to
indicate that they are white on the U.S. census?
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, we actually have on the--and
I understand, you know, that there was a process in deciding,
certainly before I got to the census, and there is a history to
coming up with the questions and the race and the ethnicity
categories, and the OMB----
Ms. Tlaib. No, they ignored it.
Mr. Dillingham [continuing]. But----
Ms. Tlaib. Doctor, before you--but they ignored it. The
previous Administration decided to put MENA on the form. They
ignored it. But do you think if I circled white category, that
would be an accurate depiction of my racial and ethnic
background?
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, we do not second-guess what
you put down.
Ms. Tlaib. OK. Well, then----
Mr. Dillingham. And we have a write-in. We do have a write-
in----
Ms. Tlaib. Director, you are not giving me an option,
because let me tell you, there is a reason why the
recommendation happened, because would circling white on the
census changed my lived experience as a person of color in our
country? Right? Even saying that, you understand there is a
difference when you actually have the check-off box.
Because the MENA community, like others, relies on accurate
census representation for health research, Director, language
assistance, civil rights laws, and reporting educational
outcomes. In addition, it would help address things like crime
reporting, Director, helping minority business owners get
loans, and drawing congressional and state legislative
boundaries.
So, Director, do you believe it is important to better
collect racial and race information from census participants of
Middle Eastern and North African descent?
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, I----
Ms. Tlaib. You believe that, though.
Mr. Dillingham [continuing]. I can say that by having the
write-in provision, that is the option----
Ms. Tlaib. Sir, it doesn't have the same impact, and you
know that. You know that. That is why the community pushed to
add the category of MENA, and they did it right. They went
through the process, and they got it approved. And this
Administration decided to ignore them and to make them
invisible again, right? That is what you are doing. You are
making us invisible. No, the continued absences of this ethnic
category contributes to erasing us, our living, working--we all
live and work and raise our families here.
I truly believe this issue needs to be addressed, and we
need your leadership to push back against this current
Administration's lack of wanting to see people like me being
represented on an official government Federal form, that
decides around funding, decides how they are going to treat us,
how they are going to approach health research, language
assistance, all those kinds of things.
I mean, you know, Director, we need to get it right because
I am not white. I am not. And I don't, you know, try to say to
other that you should be this or that. But when I sit on this
form and I look at it, I don't see myself represented on this
form. And I think that is a huge issue for people like me. And
I need you to do more in pushing back against this current
Administration, ignoring what the previous Administration was
able to do, and the U.S. Census Bureau decided to add MENA and
they ignored it.
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, I can assure you that we
continue to study race and ethnicity, and the options for self-
reporting that.
Ms. Tlaib. Director----
Mr. Dillingham. And let me just----
Ms. Tlaib [continuing]. I know----
Mr. Dillingham [continuing]. Let me just say that----
Ms. Tlaib [continuing]. But we have been studied----
Mr. Dillingham [continuing]. We want your views. We want
your views and we are beginning the process of looking at the
2030 census, and we----
Ms. Tlaib. It is too late. It is too late, because for 10
years we will be invisible, to health research, to a number of
things, small business loans. We will be invisible for another
decade in our country, and I think it is wrong. And it was
wrong to ignore the efforts of not only the Office of
Management and Budget but organizations like ACCESS, AAI, and
others who followed the process, did what they needed to do,
get public input, to making sure that they are seen finally by
their own Federal Government.
Thank you. I yield.
Mr. Lynch. The gentlewoman yields. The chair now recognizes
the ranking member, Mr. Meadows, for five minutes.
Mr. Meadows. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Dillingham, let
me--I want to do a little bit of clean-up, if I can.
Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz was asking about
documents and timeframes. Here is what I am requesting of you.
We need to know who is in charge of finally releasing the
information. We need to know a reasonable timeframe on when her
request can be given. And I need you to get that to this
committee this week. Are you willing to do that?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, I certainly will do everything
I can.
Mr. Meadows. I----
Mr. Dillingham. And certainly I will do everything I can--
--
Mr. Meadows. So, let me interrupt you. That was a softball
question.
Mr. Dillingham. I understand, Congressman. We will get back
with an answer.
Mr. Meadows. That is not--listen, this is not my first
rodeo, and I get this from the previous Administration, and I
am getting it from--I need it this week.
Mr. Dillingham. Yes.
Mr. Meadows. Are you willing to do that? You have got
people behind you. Turn around and ask them right now, because
we are going to wait until you give me an answer.
Mr. Dillingham. Uh----
Mr. Meadows. Turn around and ask them. If not, don't bring
them here.
[Pause.]
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, I think I got a firm yes for
you.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Meadows. Thank you.
Mr. Dillingham. And for the Congresswoman as well.
Mr. Meadows. OK. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Listen, this is--because it comes across as if you are
trying to hide information.
Mr. Dillingham. No, absolutely.
Mr. Meadows. It shouldn't be this hard. It should not be
this hard. Just basic respect for Members of Congress. Each one
of them represents 727,514 Americans. Just on that basis, you
should give the decency and the respect to the Members of
Congress who are sitting here, who have been elected by their
constituents. Give them the information that they are owed,
that they deserve.
That is all. I yield back.
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, I agree with both of you on
this. I can just--just by way of explanation, that, you know,
we try to recruit as many partners as we can, and sometimes
when we are putting the list together, especially in the early
stages, some did not give us permission to use. And so we need
to remedy that, and I think we have the remedy, is what I just
heard. We may have the remedy.
Mr. Meadows. Yes, even if you have got five or six people
that says there are others here, Ms. Wasserman Schultz
understands that sometimes, because of privacy. I just think
that you can respond and answer her question. You and I have
talked. I know that you are not trying to hide anything, but it
was coming across that way. And so----
Mr. Dillingham. I appreciate it.
Mr. Meadows. So, the other thing that I would ask each of
you is--I probably have been to more census hearings than any
other Member of Congress. It was not on my bucket list, I
promise you. And there are going to be some problems. There are
going to be some major problems. And here is what I am asking
you, Dr. Dillingham, and Dr. Fontenot, if you would, is if
there is a major problem I don't want to read about it in the
Washington Post or the New York Times. If you would get with
the chairman and let us know, even if it has to be discreet. If
you are seeing a problem, we want to know about the problem
right away. Are you both willing to do that?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, we are, and in fact I think we
have every opportunity. We brief your staffs on a regular
basis. We brief all the caucuses that were mentioned earlier,
and we are a very transparent organization, and that is the way
we do our business.
Mr. Meadows. And I guess what I am saying is, when the
problem comes up I don't want to hear about it from GAO that we
have got the--but go ahead. I saw you raising your hand.
Mr. Mihm. Mr. Meadows, as you know the strategy that we
have in place, the controller general has directed us to make
sure that--some of them are sitting behind us--we have a strike
team that is going to, if we see localized problems, because
that is where it is going to be, localized, we are going to be
able to get in there right away and then obviously report back
to the Congress.
Mr. Meadows. Thank you, and thank your entire teams. Both
of you have got teams. Listen, with your predecessor, Mr.
Thompson, I actually had a number of meetings and was really
concerned, in terms of progress. We were working with GAO and
others. And we are in a much better place today than we were
even a year ago, and certainly than we were three years ago. At
the same time, because it is new technology and new methods of
collecting this data, we want to make sure that we have an
accurate--not only an accurate count but one that is credible,
that will withstand scrutiny.
So, if you see areas, that you have got areas of concern,
if you would please let us know, that would be very helpful.
The other thing that I want to come back to is in terms of
the multiple pinging of non-responses. When we send out
letters, a lot of times those letters are going to places that,
honestly, are not deliverable, and we don't get those back from
the post offices until long after the response.
So, if you can look at areas on the non-responses with our
community partners--Native American lands, minority
communities, rural communities--if you can look at those and
how we can make sure--and I know you are. But what I guess is
over the next 60 days double down on that as we start this
process in earnest, I would greatly appreciate it.
I see you are nodding, so for the record I guess we are all
in agreement. Is that correct?
All right. I yield back. I thank you.
Mr. Lynch. The gentleman yields. The chair now recognizes
the gentlewoman from California, Ms. Porter, for five minutes.
Ms. Porter. Hello. I want to ask you about an example of
census disinformation that is already spreading, not on social
media but through the postal mail. Individuals across the
country, including in Michigan, California, Alabama, and other
places, have reported receiving a questionnaire in the mail
titled ``2020 congressional District Census.'' But this
questionnaire is not from the Census Bureau. It is not the
census. It is a fundraising mailer from the Republican National
Committee.
I have a copy of this mailer here, Madam Chairwoman, and I
would like to enter the copy into the record.
Mr. Lynch. Without objection.
[The information referred to follows:]
Ms. Porter. Thank you. This questionnaire is labeled as,
quote, ``a census document that was requested by President
Trump.'' The document asks individuals to return it within
seven days to ensure accurate tabulation and dependable
results, and it says, quote, ``Enclosed is your official
congressional district census,'' and people are given a
registration code that is specific to them, a several-digit
number, not unlike--an alphanumeric number--not unlike what
they are going to be getting to then go online to complete the
census.
This is not the first time that we have seen the RNC, the
Republican National Committee, try to confuse voters by sending
them a mailer that imitates the census. They did the same thing
in 2010, prompting Congress to pass a law, sponsored by
Chairwoman Maloney, trying to stamp out this conduct. But here
we are, 10 years later, and the RNC is at it again.
Dr. Dillingham, are you familiar with this RNC mailer?
Mr. Dillingham. I have heard generally about the problem.
Ms. Porter. Have you seen it?
Mr. Dillingham. No, I have not seen it.
Ms. Porter. We have sent it to the Census, to the Postal
Bureau for investigation. Will you please commit to reviewing
this?
Mr. Dillingham. We will be glad to review it.
Ms. Porter. I am asking you personally. Will you commit to
reviewing this?
Mr. Dillingham. I certainly will.
Ms. Porter. Thank you. Have you asked the RNC to cease and
desist from using the term ``2020 census'' or ``official
census'' in its mailings?
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, I would have to look and
see. I am not sure who sent that out, and----
Ms. Porter. I am.
Mr. Dillingham. OK.
Ms. Porter. Because I have reading glasses. I am sure you
are going to be able to see this. Way down here, on page two,
in this little-bitty box, in about, I would say, four to six
point font, it says, ``Paid for by the Republican National
Committee.''
Will you ask the RNC to stop using the terms ``2020
census,'' ``official census'' and a registration census code?
Mr. Dillingham. We will study this problem, and let me tell
you what we do for avoiding any type of scam or
misrepresentation.
Ms. Porter. No. I would love to ask you more generally
about this, but I am concerned about this, and this mailing has
already gone out. So, the time to stop it was actually before
it happened. And when the first reports came into your office--
we know Californians have called the RNC. Someone's parent got
this, an elderly parent. The adult child called the RNC, asked
them to stop sending these things to their parent, and the RNC,
which I realize you are not responsible for, but the RNC told
them, quote, ``This was an order by Donald Trump to send out to
people and they must comply with us.''
The census is already facing so many problems with
disinformation. This fake census from the RNC will only serve
to increase confusion and distrust, and I call on you to do
everything you can to actually combat this document. These were
beginning to be mailed back in early 2019, so this has been an
issue for over a year now. And we should all, regardless of
party, avoid politicizing the census. Do you agree?
Mr. Dillingham. I agree we should not confuse any mailings
like that with the census, absolutely.
Ms. Porter. OK. What actions is your team taking to prevent
fraudsters from capitalizing on the census?
Mr. Dillingham. Sure. We do have, on our website, we have
ways for people to report this, for avoiding scams and fraud.
We remind that the don't ever give your Social Security number,
don't give donations, don't do anything on behalf of a
political party with anything to do with the census, don't use
your credit cards, et cetera.
So, we put out advice and then we also try to make sure
that we dominate any communication with more accurate advice,
as well as reporting it.
Ms. Porter. Mr. Dillingham, I have a question about this,
because I am glad that you have this correct information on
your page. Do you track census scams over time, and will you
share that information with this committee as well as with
other partners and stakeholders so that they know what is being
circulated that is false, so that when people bring in--what
system do you have to accurately encourage people to self-
report, and will you share with us what is being self-reported?
Because I am requesting. I want to know how many Americans
contacted the Census Bureau to complain about this form. Will
you provide me with that number, please?
Mr. Dillingham. We have that information. We will get those
totals to you.
Ms. Porter. Thank you so much. I yield back.
Mr. Lynch. The gentlelady yields. I now recognize myself
for five minutes.
Mr. Marinos, you are the Director of Information Technology
and Cybersecurity. Is that correct?
Mr. Marinos. Yes, sir.
Mr. Lynch. I noticed, from the GAO report, a couple of
things. One is they are saying that this will be the first
census where the internet shall be the preferred mode of
communication and participation, and yet further down on the
report it says that we still have significant problems with
cybersecurity within the census system. Is that correct?
Mr. Marinos. Yes. More generally, I think, what we are
concerned about is that we have a census that is going to be
relying on technology, including internet response, at a time
when cyber threats are very high.
Mr. Lynch. Right. So, let me ask you, so the other hat I
wear, on another committee, is actually on Fintech, and we look
a lot at blockchain applications. Is this the type of system--
and I know that blockchain is used extensively on data bases
and registries in other countries--is this a type--are we
looking at anything like that, where we can use a more secure
system, a distributed system, one that is less vulnerable in
terms of where the census is going?
Mr. Marinos. With respect to the 2020 census, I am not
aware that blockchain was explored as a possibility. It is
entirely possible that in the lead-up to the next decennial
that may be an option for the Bureau to consider.
Mr. Lynch. Well, I mean, this is an every-10-year process,
so you would think that the time to start, right, would be now.
Mr. Marinos. Yes. In fact, you know, in reality, the
internet response capability was earlier tested, I mean, and
considered in the early part of this decade as well. So, in
reality, the Bureau is already pursuing and making plans for
2030, and GAO itself will turn its eyes in that direction as
well, to see what sort of planning is taking place within the
next year.
Mr. Lynch. Yes. I know there are, at least today, some
privacy issues, because the blockchain is, you know, it is
transparent, it is public, but I also know that there are
permissioned blockchains where trusted parties have access and
that encryption allows us to, you know, use pseudonymous or
anonymous representations. But given the uses that we are
applying the census data to, you know, for Federal funding,
number of congressional seats, that is all data that gives
people in the country an actual identity.
And there is a lot at stake here and I just hope that, you
know, in your position you might be the person to drive that
process, to actually begin--I mean, obviously we can order a
study. We can order the census to undertake a review of
blockchain viability within the census. I am sure my colleagues
and I could put something together, on both sides of the aisle.
But it would be prudent, I think, to take the initiative on
your part to explore some of these possibilities.
Mr. Marinos. Yes, sir. There are essentially two things
that GAO is doing right now. One, we are monitoring, as you see
from our report issued today, on what is taking place right now
in the preparation for the 2020 census. Having said that, at
your initiative we are looking at issues like privacy. We are
looking at the extent to which the Bureau is anticipating, once
it collects the information, how it is going to protect it. And
it is entirely up to the Congress to certainly ask us to look
at issues like exploring what are possible technologies that
could be explored for the future, for 2030 as well, and we
would be happy to entertain that.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you. I mean, it is tamper-proof. It has
been proven to be tamper-proof, and there is an immutability
aspect to it that is very strong. I do realize that there are
some weaknesses on privacy right now, although there are a lot
of really smart people working on that issue. We have got some
scalability issues. But the fact that this is, you know, this
is a decennial census, it would appear to be something that
would lend itself to that type of process. I know some other
countries are looking at that as well.
My time has almost expired. The chair now--I will yield and
the chair right now recognizes the gentleman from Missouri, Mr.
Clay, for five minutes.
Mr. Clay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank all of the
witnesses for being here.
Director Dillingham, good to see you again.
Mr. Dillingham. Nice to see you, sir.
Mr. Clay. The black community is historically undercounted.
In the 2020 census, black communities were undercounted by 2.1
percent, or roughly 778,000 people. It is crucial that the
Bureau now work to address the historic issue of fully and
accurately counting the black community. During our hearing
last month, Marc Morial, CEO of the National Urban League,
testified, and I quote, ``Sixty percent, this is the Census
Bureau's research, 60 percent of African Americans are going to
rely on the door knocker to provide information notwithstanding
the internet, notwithstanding the telephone, and
notwithstanding the paper form.''
That number is much higher than the national average of
approximately 45 percent. So, Dr. Dillingham, how has the
Bureau adapted to outreach and enumeration plans to address the
black community specifically?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman Clay, it is very important that
we reach the black community, as with all communities, but
certainly there are more challenges sometimes with a minority
community, and particularly the black community. We appreciate
the work that the Urban League and others are doing to assist
us. They are our partners in this effort.
And so as I began with my opening statement, we never
underestimate the potential assistance that we can get from our
partners across the Nation, and particularly from those groups
that are working most closely with the black community, and we
also need the leadership in the black community as the trusted
voices to encourage everyone to make sure they are replying to
the census.
Now we have a lot of new reach-out activities. We discussed
earlier some of the new technologies that we can take into the
hard-to-count communities. Those were where the low-response
rates are lower, and to help reach those individuals as never
before.
Nevertheless, it is important that they have the trust, and
that they are motivated and engaged, so we do have, as the
associate director mentioned in a previous answer to another,
we courage the faith-based community. We encourage all the
communities to help us with that, to make sure they are
motivated, make sure they get the messaging. With our
communications campaign we have special commercials to reach
those communities. And so we are really using a variety of
ways.
But let me ask our associate director if he has----
Mr. Clay. Yes, but let me say this before you respond. It
is going to fall on the Bureau. It is going to fall on
enumerators, actually, getting out there and knocking on those
doors, because you all know what the response rate is going to
be, and that is when you all are key to the followup.
And Mr. Mihm, I see you want to say--go ahead.
Mr. Fontenot. Congressman, one of the things we do is model
those communities where expect lower response rates, to
determine whether we need a larger number of enumerators. And
in that case we are planning larger numbers of enumerators in
those tracks that have low response rate, and especially in
some of the black communities where we are planning larger
numbers of enumerators, who are hired from within that
community, who know that community, to go out and then take the
count. But we are depending very heavily on our partners in the
community to help us raise the trust level.
Mr. Clay. But Mr. Marinos also said that your outreach
should be culturally appropriate, and so how do we address
that?
Mr. Fontenot. Our outreach becomes culturally appropriate
because designed with our partners, with the Urban League, with
the NAACP, working with them, with our partnership staff who is
from that community, who understands the community, and with
churches.
Mr. Clay. Including media outreach?
Mr. Fontenot. Including media outreach.
Mr. Clay. Black weeklies? Radio?
Mr. Fontenot. We have an advertising agency that is a black
advertising agency, that is a partner with Y&R, who worked to
design a lot of the media campaign to reach out to the black
community.
Mr. Clay. OK. I am seeing my time is up, but thank you, Mr.
Chair.
Mr. Lynch. The gentleman yields. The chair now recognizes
the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Keller, for five minutes.
Mr. Keller. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the
panel for being here today. The census is very important to
everyone, and I just want to make note that now that the
impeachment sideshow has ended and Speaker Pelosi finally
thinks the census should be an issue of focus, I am glad to see
we are starting to address some of the potential problems with
the census.
Ensuring an accurate count is essential, particularly for
rural districts like PA 12, the one I represent, who receive a
lower return on Federal tax dollars invested to the tune of
$2,000 per person not counted.
As of the beginning of February, over 2 million people had
completed an assessment to become an enumerator in the 2020
census, which is approaching the target or 2.6 million
interested candidates by next month. In order to reach the end
goal of hiring 500,000 people as enumerators, I understand the
Census Bureau is conducting a recruitment campaign to ensure an
adequate work force.
Mr. Dillingham, can you speak to some of the challenges you
have been seeing throughout this recruitment process and if
there are any strategies the Census Bureau could implement
quickly to address those before mailings go out and the process
officially gets underway?
Mr. Dillingham. Absolutely, Congressman, and we appreciate
the circumstance in Pennsylvania, and Philadelphia is actually
our regional headquarters, and so there is a lot of attention
with Pennsylvania.
But it is very important that we have the people on board.
We had some previous discussions here today that we are going
to meet our goal. We are going to surpass our goal. We will
meet our goal, and that was the hardest-case scenario of the
2.67 that we needed, and we are going to meet that in the first
week of March.
And the numbers, by and large, you asked what the
challenges are, and I will--I think everyone understands that
unemployment is low. So, that was a challenge. And so we have
recruited--we have alumni that come back every 10 years that
love to do this, but we have recruited in the university
setting. There are 20 million university students out there
with student loans and needing money. So, we have made a very
concerted effort. We have more than 6,000 partners in the
higher education field, and we spread the word in so many
different ways. And our recruiters, right now we have 4,500
recruiters that are recruiting people.
So, that is why we are making our goals. We are on the
course, and if we--we are over our goal if you look at the
response rate of what we predict. But if the worst-case
scenario, we certainly need more, and we are not going to stop
recruiting all through the decennial census. Until we get the
count, we are going to continue to recruit, so we will far
surpass our goal.
Mr. Keller. OK. Are you seeing challenges specific to
recruiting enumerators in rural parts of the country, and if
so, what ways can we, as Congress, be helping to improve
recruitment and give you the tools you need?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, exactly. Rural areas and other
areas, particularly, I could say generalize in much of the
Northeast, in some of the smaller states, we have encountered
that. And one of the ways we do it is we have continuously
reevaluated the pay rates. So, we have raised, even very
recently, I think this week, we increased the pay rates for
these people in certain jurisdictions based on what we are
seeing, and the needs.
But let me ask Associate Director Fontenot if he wants to
add.
Mr. Fontenot. Congressman, our labor economists work to
look at the dynamics by county in areas that we are having
difficulty recruiting. Some of those dynamics include the
unemployment rate, the type of work in that county, the
prevailing wage rate in that county, and we have been adjusting
wages up where we have needed to, to reach more people.
In terms of what you as a trusted voice in your community
as a Congressman and your local staff can do to assist us is
emphasize people responding to our recruitment advertising.
That is primarily. If it is in a blog that you are putting out,
if it is something that your staff can do to emphasize, step up
and respond to census at 2020census.gov/jobs, and get people
engaged in applying, that would help us significantly.
But our people will work--our recruiting staff will be
working with your district staff on any particular tracks or
areas in your district that we are having difficulty
recruiting.
Mr. Keller. OK. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. I
yield back.
Mr. Sarbanes.
[Presiding.] The chair recognizes Ms. Ocasio-Cortez of New
York.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would be remiss
if we didn't remind the committee overall that this is not our
first census hearing, but we have been at this work for quite
some time. Yet if it is a given member's first time showing up
to a census hearing, I welcome them.
The Trump administration spent more than two years trying
to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census, which, one, a
Republican operative and gerrymandering expert said would be,
quote, ``advantageous to Republicans and non-Hispanic whites.''
Last year, in July, however, the Supreme Court ruled that
the attempt to add the question was unlawful, and that the
reason given to Congress and the American people was, quote,
``contrived,'' and, quote, ``incongruent with what the record
reveals.''
I fear that the damage has already been done. A study of
Latino attitudes toward the census by NALEO found that 83
percent of undocumented persons and 74 percent of citizens
worried that the Trump administration will use census
information against immigrants.
So, Mr. Dillingham, I want to get a few straight answers
right now. I hope that they are relatively straightforward and
would appreciate it if you could answer this with a simple yes
or no.
The first, the 2020 census will not ask about citizenship
or immigration status. Correct?
Mr. Dillingham. That is absolutely--yes.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you. The census data will not be
used in immigration enforcement. Correct?
Mr. Dillingham. Yes.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you. The census data will not be
released to the Department of Homeland Security. Correct?
Mr. Dillingham. Yes.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And as we know, releasing census data to
DHS would be a crime punishable by up to five years in prison
or $250,000. Correct?
Mr. Dillingham. Yes.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And can you pledge today that immigrants
can trust the Census Bureau to keep their data confidential so
that they can participate in the census without fear?
Mr. Dillingham. If I understood your question, it was
whether or not I could convince or share with----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. That you can pledge today----
Mr. Dillingham. Pledge today. Absolutely, Congresswoman,
and I would like every member of this committee and every
Member of Congress and every elected leader, every appointed
leader, and every leader in every community to communicate that
same message. It is apolitical, the census. It is bipartisan,
and we need everyone's support.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you, and I appreciate you saying
that. However, we do know that that message is not quite
getting out to the country. Arturo Vargas, the CEO of NALEO,
testified before the committee on January 9. He said, quote,
``Many Latinos are resistant to participate in the census
because they believe, after years of coverage, that there will
be a question on the form, despite its absence.''
And Vargas also continued to say that ``we have observed
that the Bureau has been instructed not to discuss that
question,'' the citizenship question. Is that correct?
Mr. Dillingham. That is not correct, to the best of my
knowledge.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. OK. OK, great.
Mr. Dillingham. As a matter of fact, I discuss it. Other
people discuss it. Whenever it comes up, we have total freedom
to discuss it.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. OK, great. So, it is your testimony that
the Bureau and employees of the Bureau have not been
instructed--so your testimony is that that is not true, that--
--
Mr. Dillingham. I am not aware of anyone being instructed.
Now if----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Not to discuss the citizenship question.
Mr. Dillingham. Not to discuss. Now let me just say this.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. OK.
Mr. Dillingham. This is a possibility, and I don't know of
any factual basis for that. We do--our research indicates that
we promote the benefits of the census, and so we don't go back
and repeat something that may be perceived as being negative.
We talk about the positives.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. I see. So, is the--but I think the
question here, to dig a little deeper, will the Bureau advise
the public clearly and decisively, specifically, that there is
no citizenship question on the census?
Mr. Dillingham. Well, it has certainly been the case
whenever I have been asked, or anyone with the Census Bureau
has been asked, that is an absolutely accurate answer that we
give, that it is not on there. In our advertising--now I cannot
speak to the methodology of the NALEO research, and I am
generally aware of some of the publicity with it, and they are
our partner, and we support them in what they are doing with
the Latino community and others.
But we do our research with a very broad scientific survey
of 50,000, focus groups of more than 120, we found that people
were more interested in knowing the benefits. And so that is
what we emphasize.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you. And just with my last
question, to clarify, if someone knocks on my door in the
Bronx, how can a person confirm that this person is, in fact,
from the census?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, we have been to your district
in the Bronx. We didn't meet with you on that particular
occasion but we drove through, and by Queens College, et
cetera, in that area, and we saw some of the apartment housing,
et cetera, and some of the public housing or authority-
controlled housing. And we understand how important it is that
they recognize when this is an official census person coming.
So, we will have indicia. We will publicize it. We will
have badges. The case we cover will have the U.S. Census Bureau
on it. And so we have those ways, and we will also communicate
with whoever is in charge of that complex, et cetera, that this
is why we are here and this is what we are doing. And we have
found that when we do that, when enter--for example, I was told
by our partnership specialist, when we enter a hall word goes
down through that hall immediately in that complex, that, oh,
these people are here and this is what they are doing.
So, we will work with those communities in every way we can
to make sure they know that we have a legitimate purpose, and
it is a purpose that we hope that they will support and has
benefit to them.
And I want to thank you also for working with some of the
outstanding leadership in the state of New York that everyone
knows, in promoting the value of the census.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you very much.
Mr. Lynch.
[Presiding.] Does the gentlelady yield?
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Yes.
Mr. Lynch. The gentlewoman yields. The chair now recognizes
the gentlewoman from Michigan, Mrs. Lawrence, for five minutes.
Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Dillingham, you have been to Detroit. Thank you for
physically coming. Detroit, however, is a city notoriously
undercounted in past census years. My district includes a
significant minority population who speaks dozens of languages.
So, it is critical that the Census Bureau take aggressive
action to ensure the hard-to-reach populations are prioritized
in your preparation.
As you know, the Mobile Questionnaire Assistance operation
is meant to improve participation in the 2020 census by
establishing a visible Census Bureau presence in areas with
low-response areas, and providing the public with a way to
immediately answer the census in these locations. With this
being said, that was a commitment that I received from you, but
I am concerned that this operation will be understaffed and
simply inadequate to serve the millions of Americans who may
need it.
In 2010, the Census Bureau spent $35 million on
questionnaire assistance and deployed more than 31,000 staff
members to nearly 39,000 locations. However, in Fiscal Year
2020, Congress gave the census $1.4 billion more than the
President requested and Congress has directed the census to
spend a minimum of $90 million on this operation.
Last Friday, however, the census informed this committee
that you have only obligated $7 million to date and that it
plays to deploy only 4,000 staff.
Director, I am concerned that your proposed staffing level
and infrastructure for the Mobile Questionnaire is insufficient
to ensure cost-effective use of funds. Can you give me a
commitment today to revisit the following: (1) the planned
number of census response representatives, and (2) your
decision not to include Questionnaire Assistance Centers at
accessible fixed locations and hours for the period of time?
Mr. Dillingham. I certainly will, Congresswoman, and I
appreciate the visits to Detroit and those hard-to-count areas,
the eight wards of Detroit. And we went to those areas and we
saw the locations where we could use the Mobile Assistance,
where they can go into the community centers. As I recall, each
ward had plans for a community center. We visited one, but they
have centers there. And we also went to donut shops, for
example, in Detroit, and we saw where the homeless would
congregate, and we said that is where we can take the
technology directly to those location and help to count those
people.
Mrs. Lawrence. So, are we going to do that? Are we going to
do it?
Mr. Dillingham. We are going to do that, and I want to
commend the city of Detroit and the partners, the occasion,
when we visited the law school, et cetera, those people were
very committed. And when they took us around early on a Sunday
morning, we saw those locations, and that is what we intend to
do.
Now you bring a question, and we will be glad to get back
with you on the facts and figures. But it was unanimous among
the professionals at the Census Bureau that the fixed
locations, in this day and age, were not nearly as efficient or
effective. As a matter of fact, we don't have the hard data,
but some data we have indicates in some locations we had an
average of 1 1/2 people visit a day. And to have a storefront
location where only 1 1/2 persons come in a day is not being
efficient and effective.
That is why there was agreement, and the Congress asked us,
the appropriating committee in the House and the Senate said,
``What can you do and what can you do better?'' And we
developed this plan which they decided to fund, from $90
million, and we actually may spent $117 million on it.
But is an additional more than 4,000 people who are our
recruiters----
Mrs. Lawrence. So, if you are not going to invest into the
brick-and-mortar----
Mr. Dillingham. That is correct.
Mrs. Lawrence [continuing]. As was the plan, how do you
reach? I mean, how do you give access to those people who say,
``I can't figure out what you are talking about. Somebody needs
to tell me,'' and you are not knocking on the door. How do you
fix it?
Mr. Dillingham. Well, what we do is through our partners,
like the American Library Association--if they want to do it
online they can to community centers, they can go to the
library, they can go to the businesses that allow that, with
the internet option. A lot of those people will not choose the
internet option. That is correct.
Mrs. Lawrence. That is correct.
Mr. Dillingham. So, then if they have a phone they can
call.
Mrs. Lawrence. But Dr. Dillingham, we have a crisis----
Mr. Dillingham. Yes.
Mrs. Lawrence [continuing]. In Detroit, where a lot of our
local libraries are not open or functioning, or if they are it
is only two or three days a week. So, how do you satisfy that
need when you don't have a place on a regular, consistent
schedule, for them to have access?
Mr. Dillingham. Yes. Let me give you one example in
Detroit, and working with the former chairman of this
committee. They were interested, and the mayor was interested
in a fixed location in Baltimore. But when we went around the
people on the Complete Count Committee, and the people
assisting, we identified 80 locations in the city of Baltimore,
and that was a subset. There is going to be more than 80
locations where people can go, for example, if they want to use
the internet.
But the phones, if they have a phone of any type--hard
line, smart phone, or whatever--they can use the phones. In
addition, we will have the paper, and then, as was pointed out
by Congressman Clay, pointed out that perhaps in some
communities you really rely ultimately, if we don't get the
responses after five mailings, we rely on the enumerators and
the people hired from those communities, and the partnership
specialists from those community will help us to get a complete
count in those communities.
Mrs. Lawrence. Mr. Dillingham, my time is up.
Mr. Dillingham. Detroit is a very tough case, and we are
going to work with you in every way we can.
Mrs. Lawrence. And I want you flexible to be able to
revisit that.
Mr. Dillingham. Yes.
Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. [Presiding.] The gentleman from
Maryland, Mr. Sarbanes, is recognized for five minutes.
Mr. Sarbanes. Thank you, Madam Chair. The 2020 census is
the largest and the most digitally advanced census that we have
ever conducted. It is the first that will be done mostly
online, as I understand, so obviously cybersecurity is going to
have to be a top priority for you all.
There is a report today from the Government Accountability
Office which raises serious concerns about whether the Census
Bureau is up to that challenge. It says, quote, ``The Bureau
continues to face challenges related to addressing
cybersecurity weaknesses, tracking, and resolving cybersecurity
recommendations from the Department of Homeland Security and
addressing numerous other cybersecurity concerns such as
protecting the privacy of respondent data.''
So, notwithstanding the commercial we saw at the front end,
which showed that security obviously is going to be a key
concern, we have some worries here. Mr. Marinos, can you
elaborate on the cybersecurity challenges you identify in your
report? And I guess I would just make the point that if ever
there was a juicy target for those who want to hack in and
cause mischief and sow discord and all the rest of it, it would
be our 10-year census when we are putting it online in a way we
have never done before. So, that has got to be, obviously, a
high, high priority. So, could you speak to that please?
Mr. Marinos. Certainly, Mr. Sarbanes. So, indeed, I think
that is what is probably the most important thing to emphasize
here. We are dealing with cyber threats on a constant basis
against Federal agencies and the Census Bureau is no exception,
with respect to that. The reality is in why GAO identified the
census has a high-risk area in 2017 resides quite heavily on
the innovations. So, the fact that we are looking to rely on
the internet response option as one of the key ways for the
public to be able to respond to the survey is what creates the
risk, and specifically the cybersecurity risk.
Having said that, we have some encouraging news here. The
Bureau is working with CISA, as we mentioned, the Department of
Homeland Security's cybersecurity experts, and has been doing
that for actually over two years. CISA has been conducting
assessments. CISA has been providing consultative advice to the
Bureau, and has an agreement with the Bureau to provide
operational support in the event that the Bureau starts to see
some nefarious activity. So, that is a positive.
Mr. Sarbanes. Yes. Let me jump in, because I guess the
Census Bureau's own data was talking about these concerns, and
last Friday the Bureau informed us that it had 924 unresolved
security vulnerabilities, known as, quote, ``plans of action
and milestones,'' end quote, at the end of January. And those
vulnerabilities included 151 that were, quote, ``high risk,''
and 60 that the Census Bureau deemed, quote, ``critical.'' And
according to the Bureau itself, less than half of these will be
fixed before Census Day, on April 1, 2020.
So, Dr. Dillingham, shouldn't all the critical and high-
risk problems be fixed before April 1?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, we certainly would hope that
would happen. But let me explain, that the Census Bureau
engages in a very sophisticated risk management process that
began in the 1990's with guidance from GAO on how we do risk
management. So, what we do is we identify all of our risk. They
document some of these risks and they tell us when we are
slipping on our schedule or where risk continues to exist. We
have developed the plans for remedying the risk, and we get
things off of that list every day, and more come on.
We have, as I mentioned earlier, more than 25,000 tests
that we have to do with our IT system, and we have more than
27,000 tasks that we perform. And whenever we see that
something is slipping schedule or whatever, we put it on our
risk list, and then we work the risk list, and the majority of
those are coming off the list. I think GAO commends us often
about the progress we make. But the whole concept of risk
management is to always be looking for a risk, and that risk
can simply mean you are slipping schedule a little, and then
you work the risk, and that is what we do.
So, we will never, in my opinion, not have a risk list. We
will always have risk, and risk, by definition, means there is
a possibility that something will happen, not that it has
happened.
Mr. Sarbanes. Well, I certainly appreciate that, you know,
you can't guarantee that every risk is eliminated completely.
That wouldn't make any sense. But I hope you are just throwing
everything at this on the front end. And Mr. Marinos, do you
have some confidence that the Bureau still has time to address
the key challenges, the most obvious risks that you have
identified in the GAO's recommendations, and get that done
before Census Day?
Mr. Marinos. Well, we are definitely encouraged, in
particular, with respect to how the Bureau is approaching
trying to take action on feedback it is getting from DHS.
I just want to clarify too, with respect to the issues that
the Bureau itself identifies as a course of testing, the
results of testing are the corrective actions, and so that is a
positive. Having said that, we have been on record recommending
to the Bureau that they do a better job to rack and stack,
prioritize what are the most critical risks to them. They
actually make those decisions because they are the experts of
their environment, and that is where we are continuing to
uphold the fact that our recommendation is important to
implement.
Mr. Sarbanes. Thanks, and I yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentleman yields back, and the
gentlewoman from Massachusetts, Ms. Pressley, is recognized for
five minutes.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Madam Chair. First I just want to
say I am grateful to your convening this important hearing and
for your tireless work to defend the integrity of our census,
in keeping with the leadership of our former chair, and I thank
you, Mr. Dillingham, for bringing him into the space, Elijah
Cummings.
I cannot overstate the importance of a successful and
accurate census enough. We have been talking throughout today
about hard-to-count districts. More than 60 percent of my
constituents living in Suffolk County live in hard-to-count
neighborhoods, more than 60 percent. So, critical to ensuring
undercounts don't take place in the first place is making sure
that we have the staff power recruited, hired up, trained, and
ready to do the work.
Now I have heard, directly from constituents of mine, who
are eager and enthusiastic to take on this task, but instead,
being frank, have been given the runaround or have been left
waiting to hear, for weeks on end, from the Census Bureau on
the status of their applications.
So, today I would like to discuss the Census Bureau's
recruiting and hiring efforts. I understand the Census Bureau
is expected to hire up to half a million temporary workers to
conduct the 2020 census, including enumerators who knock on
doors to ensure everyone is counted. To do that, the Bureau set
a goal of recruiting 2.6 million applicants, but again,
according to the GAO report, the Census Bureau is far behind.
The GAO says, quote, ``The Bureau is behind in its recruiting
of applicants for upcoming operations. If the Bureau does not
recruit sufficient individuals it may have difficulty hiring
enough staff to complete its upcoming operations within
scheduled timeframes,'' unquote.
I know there is a reoccurring theme here. There is a
reoccurring, repeat themes here because we have shared
concerns, and we do want to be good-faith partners to each
other in this endeavor. And as elected officials I don't get to
just--we don't get to just speak to the what. We have to
explain the how. And I don't believe we have gotten to that.
And so, Dr. Dillingham, you have known about this problem
for weeks, outlined in the GAO report. Why is the Bureau so
behind on this, with just weeks before the counts begin
nationwide?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, we appreciate your concern
with this. We appreciate GAO pointing out that we did have a
very ambitious goal, under the worst-case scenario, that we
were trying to meet. We will meet the worst-case scenario in
just a couple of weeks, by the first week in March, and most of
those people will not be hired for many weeks later. So, we are
on course. We have absolute confidence. There is no one at the
Census Bureau worried about us not having recruits, overall, in
the country.
Now what we do worry about, some areas--and I can certainly
check Boston and areas of Massachusetts--there are areas that
we want to focus on. We have at least three applicants for
every job that we are going to be hiring for, in every part of
the country, but some we have four and five applicants. We want
four, five, and I want six applicants for every job that we
have available, because we have greater selectivity, we can
choose the people from the communities, directly from those
communities, and often with a set of language skills needed.
So, let me put our chart up here and show you where we are.
Ms. Pressley. Oh no, I have seen that from earlier in your
presentation.
Mr. Dillingham. OK. And we have it in your materials.
Ms. Pressley. And again, just to underscore not only the
GAO report, which contradicts what you are offering.
Mr. Dillingham. And their data is somewhat dated. I think
they will admit that.
Ms. Pressley. Again, it contradicts what you are offering,
and it contradicts on-the-ground experience by the people that
I represent.
In order to maintain the integrity of the census process
then we have to have the recruiting process be one that is of
integrity. And I have participated in job fairs in previous
census, and have been a good-faith partner. I have already done
census awareness events in my district. And, you know, those
that are unemployed or underemployed and who want to be a part
of this process, they have just been, you know, left out to
dry, without any response, for a very long time.
So, I am glad that the Bureau has had a recent uptick in
recruiting----
Mr. Dillingham. Can I respond?
Ms. Pressley [continuing]. But I want to show you a chart
again, from today's GAO report. OK.
So, the red line shows the Census Bureau's goals for
recruiting. The blue dotted line is your actual recruiting,
which has been lagging behind since last September. As you can
see, you still have not reached even your own internal goals.
So, Mr. Dillingham, what is causing the hiring delays at
the Census Bureau? What can I tell my constituents----
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, we have reached our internal
goals with respect to the anticipated response rate. The worst-
case scenario response rate, we are on the verge of hitting
within two weeks. Most of these people will not be hired, some
for months, some for weeks. And you started out with people are
concerned about not getting word about being hired yet. We are
making the selections. In March we are going to be making
final----
Ms. Pressley. Well, just even acknowledging even receipt of
application. But at the committee's last census hearing, Marc
Morial, President and CEO of the National Urban League, said,
``It is time to ring the alarm bell on the enumerator program.
They are behind, and there is no strategy to catch up.''
Mr. Dillingham, is Mr. Morial's concern a fair on? Yes or
no?
Mr. Dillingham. I will say this. He is our partner. We work
with him. We respect him.
Ms. Pressley. Yes or no?
Mr. Dillingham. And let me say, some people look at a glass
and say it is half empty. We say it is filling fast and will
overflow. And so with Mr. Morial I would characterize it
differently. Yes, I would.
Ms. Pressley. Well, it is not just about meeting a single
national recruiting target. Census workers are needed more in
hard-to-count communities where many people will not fill out
census forms until someone arrives at their door. Yet again,
according to the GAO, 202 of the 248 area census offices fell
short of their individual recruiting targets. I mean, all of
this is about numbers.
Mr. Dillingham. It is.
Ms. Pressley. OK. And the numbers are telling the story.
And it is----
Mr. Dillingham. We think so. We also base our assessments
on the numbers.
Ms. Pressley. And it is a sobering one that stands to
really devastatingly impact communities that are already under-
resourced and underserved.
Mr. Dillingham, do you agree that staff shortages could
have a bigger impact in hard-to-count communities? Or Mr.
Fontenot, anyone who would like to weigh in here.
Mr. Fontenot. Yes. We agree that staff shortages could have
a big impact on hard-to-count communities, but I will emphasize
that by the time we start making selections for hiring, we will
have exceeded 2.7 million, 2.67 million applicants in our
applicant pool.
The challenge that your constituents are having is they
have signed for the census a month ago, two months ago, and we
haven't hired anyone yet. Our plans ways to always begin
selection for the non-response followup operation, which is our
big operation, in March. It was on our website and it was on
the application, of this is the order of when things happen.
People missed that along the way.
Ms. Pressley. OK. Well let me just----
Mr. Fontenot. And I have had them come up to me, who know
me, and say----
Ms. Pressley. Well, Mr. Fontenot, I am so sorry.
Chairwoman Maloney. This is the last question. The time has
expired, but ask the question and he can answer. Ask it.
Ms. Pressley. OK. All right. Well, I just want to say for
three counties in the Massachusetts 7th which I represent, the
Census Bureau still needs to recruit 11,000 applicants. So,
just for the purposes of the record, and Rep. Ocasio-Cortez was
doing the same thing, can you just clarify that none of this
delay has anything to do with security concerns? There are
people affiliated with the census who have told people that
have applied that this is an exhaustive process because there
needs to be extra screening and be mindful of people who would
be coming to your door. And this has especially been told to
those who have queries.
So, I just--could you, just for the record, just say that
there are no discriminatory barriers to people applying, and
then speak to what is a reasonable time to expect someone to
get back, when someone has applied?
Mr. Fontenot. Right now we are sending a letter to any
applicant who has applied within two weeks of their
application. They are getting some notification.
Ms. Pressley. Right now?
Mr. Fontenot. We have received your application, okay. But
they will not be selected until our March timeframe for our
primary operation, period, because the operation actually does
not start until May. So, we are hiring people in advance of an
operation and a training process. And so that is the one thing
that I want to maintain clarity on, that there will be a gap of
approximately 60 days between the time we start selection and
the time people start actually working and being paid.
Chairwoman Maloney. The gentlelady's time has expired. The
gentleman from California, Vice Chair Gomez, is recognized for
five minutes.
Mr. Gomez. Madam Chair, thank you so much for holding this
important hearing. I want to thank all of you for being here.
I have been working on this issue for--since I got elected,
and one of the things I have been concerned about is just
outreach to minority communities, hard-to-count communities,
especially like mine in California and downtown L.A. Some of
the partner--the nonprofits that are doing some of that
outreach through some of the state and Federal grants, they are
reaching out to communities, and I have asked them questions
about their programs. So, they are doing a lot of phone calls
right now, doing some advertising.
And then they mentioned to me that the Census Bureau
advised them not to have like door knockers when enumerators
are out. Is that correct?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, first of all let me say this,
with your partners. You have the greatest number of partners
than any Member of Congress. You are at almost 2,000 partners.
And so I commend you greatly on that. Those partners make a
very important difference. Also, you have probably the most
difficult, hard-to-count community with the homeless. And when
I was in L.A. and visiting your district, and visiting your
office, and, in fact, both HUD as well as the City were trying
to get some counts as to that population. And I went out and
looked. We looked carefully at the populations and some of the
challenges for counting them, that we are planning for.
But the--reaching the hard-to-count in your district, we
are totally committed to doing it in any way. With regard to
the specific, this is my understanding, is that there has been
some discussion because California has more resources and is
doing a count of its own, of a type, I guess with a
corporation, a think tank that has been hired to help with the
count. And I think that we have given advice that we don't want
to mix the two together so that people are confused as to who
is knocking on their door. Is the think tank-administered
survey or is it the census? And as far as I know that is what
the issue was and has been.
Mr. Gomez. Yes, and that makes sense, right?
Mr. Dillingham. Yes.
Mr. Gomez. You don't want two people that folks--so you
have one group say it is the official, nonprofit or community
liaison knocking on doors, saying, ``Hey, have you filled out
the census,'' and then that person automatically thinks that
they have filled, like they were counted, right, and then they
don't respond. That is real fear, correct?
Mr. Dillingham. It is.
Mr. Gomez. Confusion by having too many people at the wrong
time. And I agree with that.
But that leads me to some other things that are disturbing
that is going on in California, right. There is a situation
where we have some mailers, and somebody raised them before.
Madam Chair, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a
Republican GOP census doc, said ``2020 Census, District Census
Doc.''
Chairwoman Maloney. Without objection.
Mr. Gomez. And they are mailing this out into California,
right. Do you believe that this will cause confusion?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, I got a copy of it before you
came in to the hearing today and another Congresswoman from
California shared this with me. And we don't want any confusion
whatsoever. So, we pledged that we would look at this, and I
explained that we have sources on our website that if people
feel they are being deceived in a way they can report it to us,
and we will look into it. But also that we never request
personal information. We never request funding. We never
request Social Security numbers, credit cards, et cetera.
So, we need to get that positive message out.
Mr. Gomez. Yes. That is not my question. Here is the thing.
If you are so concerned and you advised--you advised these
nonprofits, the state of California, these different groups,
not to have door knockers----
Mr. Dillingham. We didn't advise them not to. We just
advised our folks not to be confused with them.
Mr. Gomez. And why? Because you might end up actually
suppressing the count itself. So, that is the point, right? You
have a document that is going out that looks official,
official, right. It could cause that same kind of confusion
before the actual census forms get mailed out. And what I am
saying is that we need more communication with whatever entity
is out there. You know, if it is the Republican Party, they
need to be pointed out that this will--can inadvertently
suppress the count. So, I am not saying that it will, but it is
possible. If you are concerned about having folks, other folks
knocking on doors, this should be deeply concerning to the
Census Bureau.
Is the Census Bureau going to do any outreach to these
campaigns, to the political parties, to not have forms that
look like the census? I know freedom of speech, freedom of
political communication becomes very difficult, but is there
any discussions of having those conversations with these
entities?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, to my knowledge we have not
had those discussions with any political party or campaign. And
as I indicated earlier, our primary response is to make sure
people get accurate information that this is not part of the
Census Bureau's questionnaire or anything.
I do understand, and I am also the recipient of mail that
is often disguised with headings, just to get you to open it
and to begin reading it. When I read this I would hope that
anyone would realize this is not the census. But I understand
that there are these operations that want to attract attention
and get you to open the mail.
Mr. Gomez. Thank you. I am not surprised by these mailings.
I have seen it before, different types. Often they do, you
know, political campaigns do an envelope that says ``Important
tax information,'' or a bunch of silliness in order to win. But
this is a bigger deal than I think that you realize. There
should be a deeper concern.
I understand that they are going to make constitutional
arguments, it's going to be limited, but sometimes a good
public shaming helps to correct behavior. Well, let's hope.
Another question. In order to--I think I am over time now,
but one of the things that I am interested in is how are we
going to--there are some technical issues, or people are
concerned about the online, filling out the form, the phone
number. Is there any concern about overwhelming the system, or
will the system be able to handle a massive flux of people
trying to fill out the census questionnaire at the same time? I
doubt it, because it is like--let's face it, people are not
revving up to fill out the census. But what are your thoughts?
Mr. Dillingham. Congressman, we do think about that, and
the system has been designed to accommodate--to far exceed what
our predictions are. So, that if we think we are going to be
receiving the information from up to 200,000 at one time, we
designed the system for 600,000-plus. And so far they have
tested very well.
We recently made a decision with regard to our systems to
make sure that we had the one that would present a better
customer experience and could handle the volume a little better
as our primary system for the internet self-response. And so we
are mindful of that. And, you know, in the invent it was to
happen it could slow down the system, but we also remind
people, we want them to get it in soon, but they have about
four months. So, it is not that everyone is going to get on the
system in one day, or even one week.
And so we do study that, we plan for it, and we--all
indications are we are ready for it. But could it happen? I
mean, I used to present hypotheticals. If it was football
season and you got all the college teams playing football, and
asked at halftime for everybody in the stadium, you probably
could overwhelm the system. But I am not sure that is a
realistic scenario.
Mr. Gomez. So, in political campaigns we see like there are
trends, right. You can tell people turn in their ballot early
or they turn in their ballot late. Traditionally it has been
kind of this U shape. Now it is moving toward everybody toward
the back, like toward the end. Like the closer to Election Day,
people are holding on to their ballots, waiting longer.
Have you guys seen that, like how it works through the
census? Is it a traditional, a lot of people answer right away
and then it slows down and the picks up?
Mr. Fontenot. From our 1918 test, when we began to look at
what type of self-response we had, we had a big thrust early in
the process, and then we had a renewed thrust after we knocked
on the door the first time and left a notice of visit that
said, ``Hi. I am going to be your census person. I am going to
come back and visit. You weren't here.'' People then went and
got online, and so we had another bump.
But our bump is at the beginning and then a little bump
then, and then it tapers off from that point on.
Mr. Gomez. OK. Thank you, Madam Chair, for indulging me. I
yield back.
Chairwoman Maloney. I want to thank Jimmy Gomez for
bringing up this deceptive mailer. I think it is outrageous. It
looks like an official document. It says, ``2020 congressional
District Census,'' then it says, ``Fill out your census
document.'' And it is a campaign piece for the Republican
National Committee, right? That is outrageous.
I think that--I want to know what your response is going to
be to that, Dr. Dillingham. This is abuse. We have been writing
all of the--Facebook and Twitter and every other social media,
urging them to be careful about deceptive documents that could
be put on the internet, that could be confusing to people on
this constitutionally required effort to count everybody. And
then you find out a congressional party is sending out
deceptive information.
So, I found it outrageous. I am going to be reintroducing a
bill that I put in in 2010, which I thought would stop this,
but would make it a crime to be handing out and mailing
deceptive information on the census. Here we are, supporting
you, with all the funding you request for all the support you
need to get an accurate count, and then you have other people,
you know, in certain parties, undermining it. I think it is
outrageous.
And I want to thank you, Mr. Gomez, and actually, I think
we should have a hearing where you testify on how you got 3,000
community partners, because I think that is quite an impressive
accomplishment. I would like to have that many, and I think
every Member of Congress would. Congratulations to you.
And I believe our last speaker today is the gentlelady from
New Mexico, Ms. Haaland, and she is recognized for five
minutes.
Ms. Haaland. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you all so
much. Last but not least, I am so happy to be here representing
the 1st District of New Mexico. But if you know New Mexico, I
represent the entire state, because all of us do.
But thank you, Dr. Dillingham. My first question will go to
you. I am so grateful that you are here and spending the time
with us that we need in answering all the questions that we
have had.
I know you know about New Mexico, because you have been
there, but just reiterating that it is a vibrant, wonderful
place, but we have challenges. We are 49th in the country in
child well-being, and we have a greater uninsured rate than the
national average. A proper census count will mean we can
address these challenges head on.
And this is kind of a rhetorical question. I don't know
expect you to know the answer to every district in the country,
but I will say it so we can, you know, get it on the record. Do
you know how much Federal money New Mexico will lose for every
one percent undercounted?
Mr. Dillingham. No, Congresswoman, but I am aware of
different estimates in different states.
Ms. Haaland. Sure. Sure. Of course. So, we figured it to be
$600 million over the decade. A two-percent undercount, like in
2000, these vital programs will again be shortchanged $1.2
billion. That translates into less money for schools, programs
that serve Hispanic, native, and communities of colors, less
funding for roads, and so many other services. And, of course,
we can't afford an undercount. So, I just wanted to get that
out there.
Following on the line of questions from Congresswoman
Pressley, I have been an organizer for a long time. It was
mostly getting Native Americans out to vote. So, I know what it
means for people to open the door and see someone who looks
like them. And I would do that, clipboard in hand, ready to
help the community, ready to get them to be active.
The Census Bureau has spoken repeatedly about wanting to
hire local enumerators, and throughout New Mexico the Census
Bureau is behind in its applicant goal, which appears to be
even more drastic in Hispanic communities and Indian country.
And those, I would say, largely are rural communities where the
unemployment rate is higher. So, I am almost feel like that
would be a great place to find people. And I will just add that
I have had a number of folks contact my district office and say
they applied but never heard from anybody.
So, the Census Bureau has known that it is behind in hiring
these folks, and I just want to hear again--I mean, tell us
today how you intend to make sure that there are enough people
out there to count, to make the counts that we absolutely need.
And there again, districts--you know, communities in my state,
we are tired of falling behind. We are tired of not getting the
funding that we need and deserve for our kids.
So, just like help us to understand why we should believe
that this is going to happen, that you are going to have the
people to make these counts.
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, it is an excellent question,
and we have had a very healthy debate here today, that the
national figures are looking extremely good and we are on
course and on track with the national figures.
But it is very important that we meet the needs of
particular states and particular communities within those
states. I did see tremendous progress when I was in New Mexico,
and when I visited the Navajo Nation, I noticed we were hiring
people from the Navajo Nation that would help with this as
partnership specialists. I haven't looked at your numbers, but
we will look at your numbers, and our region there will be
looking at your numbers to make sure we have the staffing
available.
If there are more recruitment efforts needed, we will make
those efforts. We will advertise more. In other jurisdictions,
and perhaps there, we can raise the pay rates in some
instances, whatever it takes. And we need people from those
communities, both for purposes of the enumeration--first of
all, let me just say the enumeration, because of the Navajo
language, quite frankly. And when I was visiting the Navajo
Nation we went out and found someone on a road, unmarked road,
who did not have connectivity, and that person did not speak
English, only spoke Navajo, and we had a translator. So, we
need those translation services.
And I saw where the cables were being run to some of the
health centers, et cetera. Those need to be done, and we
actually were there with the Interior Department saying that we
hope that this gets done.
So, we are going to do everything we can, but the
partnerships are so important. The hiring for our enumerators
from those communities that know the languages is so important,
for both Hispanic community and the American Indian community.
And I think my associate director would like to give some
more particulars on New Mexico.
Mr. Fontenot. Yes. Congresswoman, just last week we
authorized spending $2 million in local recruiting advertising
for local areas that may be low or behind, that were low count.
We are very sensitive to those specific needs, and that was
part of our effort to encourage local advertising to encourage
recruiting in low-count areas. So, that is a tangible example
of what we are doing right now to get recruiting up in your
area and in your state.
Ms. Haaland. OK. Thank you.
Mr. Dillingham. And Congresswoman, we will be mapping that
in real time on the internet, that you and anyone else can
check to see what the response rates are in those tracks in New
Mexico, so we can focus the resources to those areas.
Ms. Haaland. Right. And, I mean, while we are talking about
languages, yes, there is a large Navajo population in New
Mexico, but there are also other languages spoke as well--
Keres, Tiwa, Tewa, and Towa. So, those are all--and although
those languages aren't necessarily written, there is a need for
translators in various areas to make sure that there is no
language barrier with respect to getting the right answers that
we need. So, I would just like to mention that.
My last question, I think--well, maybe not--but I wanted to
followup on my colleague, Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, with the questions
that she asked. And my office has been in touch with the Census
Bureau. We have been told there is no part of your media plan
directly addressing the citizenship question and undoing months
of intimidation, because people are still afraid of that. Will
you commit to directly confront and eliminate any confusion
regarding the citizenship question, and that means spending
money on ensuring that you are putting that out there so that
people are not--don't continue to be intimidated by that?
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, we are, in fact, ensuring
that everyone knows that, and certainly in our engagements with
the communities. I will say that we have partners that are
specifically promoting that avenue.
I will also say, though, that our research indicated, in
working with the groups, that they really are looking for
positive reasons to respond to the census, and that rather than
enforce the negative, if there was some negative there about
past concerns, that we enforce the positive. So, the direction
of our communications campaign has been a very positive one.
Ms. Haaland. Thank you. Chairwoman, thank you for allowing
me to go over time. I yield.
Chairwoman Maloney. Well, thank you, Ms. Haaland. You had a
very important line of questioning and I would like to followup
on it. I think her line of questioning of how much would a
state lose if you were undercounted one percent is really
riveting, and when the number came back, $600 million,
estimated. I would like to ask for that for each state so that
citizens that live there know what is at stake if they don't
fill out their form. I can't think of a better way to do that.
I would like to request that, if I could, Doctor.
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, we will share whatever
information we have. We usually use the figure nationally of
$675 billion annually, that we are pretty confident in. There
are, as you said, I think, in your opening statement, the $1.5
trillion, some academics and researchers have developed.
Chairwoman Maloney. But her question was if you were
undercounted one percent, what specifically would it mean to
that state.
Mr. Dillingham. We can do it based on certain assumptions.
Chairwoman Maloney. Yes, on assumptions. That would be
great. I would love that.
And I want to respond to Katie Porter's line of
questioning, and really Mr. Gomez's, on these false documents
that were sent out by the Republican National Committee. I
literally passed a bill in 2010, that said that it should be
illegal to put out information disguised as the Census Bureau,
and it literally passed. So, it is against the law to do that.
I need to revisit it and add penalties and enforcement, because
clearly people are violating that principle.
The census is one of the sacred things in our Constitution.
It is one of the few responsibilities mentioned in the
Constitution, and if our data is not correct, our policies
aren't correct. So, it is critical to the private sector, to
the public sector, to our states. And I would say, very
importantly, that if you are not counted, you are not
represented. So, we all need to work harder to make that
happen.
I do want to revisit an exchange that was rather rare, a
bipartisan exchange. This has been called one of the most
partisan Congresses in history, but we had a strong bipartisan
exchange between Ms. Wasserman Schultz and Mr. Meadows, in
which they expressed the desire to get, from the Bureau, the
community partners broken down by congressional districts. I
think that is very important. I want to underline that the
committee staff, the staff of this committee has been asking
for that information also.
So, I want to ask again, Dr. Dillingham, when can we get
that information? We all want to be like Jimmy Gomez, and the
way to start is to know who the community partners are in our
districts, so we can connect with them for a count, and try to
find more.
Mr. Dillingham. Congresswoman, late last night I was hoping
that I could bring what would look like a large phone book with
that list, but it had not gone through the clearance process.
But I am informed today, at least during this hearing, that we
can make that available.
Chairwoman Maloney. That is great.
Mr. Dillingham. As soon as it is made available we will
deliver it to you.
Chairwoman Maloney. Thank you, and we would like to get it
out to every single Congressman.
And finally, I would like to close, first and foremost, by
thanking each and every one of you for your public service, for
your dedication to working for our country, and I would like to
close where we began, with the GAO finding that the Census
Bureau, quote, ``faces significant risks that could adverse
impact the cost, quality, schedule, and security of the
count,'' end quote.
I can see that, Dr. Dillingham, you and your team and the
rest of the Census Bureau are really working very hard. They
are working hard in New York. I have met with them. They are
dedicated. But the GAO report shows that there are simply too
many gaps--too may gaps, red flags that are out there in
hiring, in the partnerships, in technology testing, and in
cybersecurity. And we have to respond to these red flags that
have been thrown up by GAO. And if these gaps are not filled,
it is our most vulnerable, our most vulnerable citizens who
will suffer, including children, low-income communities, rural
communities, and minority communities. They will result in an
undercount. They won't get the services they need or the
representation. They will lose representation and they will
lose funding for critical services like schools and health
care.
So, I urge you to do absolutely everything you can in your
power to ensure that every person, every community is counted,
as required by our great Constitution.
And I would like to close with really information that I
have to put out about how much time people can make changes.
Everybody has five days to add to their testimony and make any
changes that they would like to make, and to add additional
information to their testimony.
I want to say that this is an ongoing series, that we will
be having numerous oversight hearings on this critical,
important function of our government, which is under the
jurisdiction of this committee. I used to chair the Census
Subcommittee. Then they abolished it.
Well, I would first like to thank all of the witnesses for
testifying today, and without objections all members will have
five legislative days within which to submit additional
questions for the witnesses to the chair, which will be forward
to the witnesses for their response. I ask all our witnesses to
please respond as promptly as you are able.
Thank you so much for your time, your service. This hearing
is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 1:11 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]