[House Hearing, 116 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] STEMMING A RECEDING TIDE: HUMAN RIGHTS AND DEMOCRATIC VALUES IN ASIA ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON ASIA, THE PACIFIC AND NONPROLIFERATION OF THE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION __________ September 22, 2020 __________ Serial No. 116-113 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http:// docs.house.gov, or http://www.govinfo.gov ___________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 41-961PDF WASHINGTON : 2022 COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York, Chairman BRAD SHERMAN, California MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York Member ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia STEVE CHABOT, Ohio THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida JOE WILSON, South Carolina KAREN BASS, California SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts TED S. YOHO, Florida DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois AMI BERA, California LEE ZELDIN, New York JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas JIM SENSENBRENNER, Wisconsin DINA TITUS, Nevada ANN WAGNER, Missouri ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York BRIAN MAST, Florida TED LIEU, California FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota JOHN CURTIS, Utah ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota KEN BUCK, Colorado COLIN ALLRED, Texas RON WRIGHT, Texas ANDY LEVIN, Michigan GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania GREG PENCE, Indiana TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey STEVE WATKINS, Kansas DAVID TRONE, Maryland MIKE GUEST, Mississippi JIM COSTA, California JUAN VARGAS, California VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas Jason Steinbaum, Staff Director Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director ------ Subcommittee on Asia, the Pacific and Nonproliferation AMI BERA, California, Chairman, DINA TITUS, Nevada TED YOHO, Florida, Ranking Member CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania GERALD CONNOLLY, Virginia ANN WAGNER, Missouri ANDY LEVIN. Michigan BRIAN MAST, Florida ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia JOHN CURTIS, Utah Nikole Burroughs, Staff Director C O N T E N T S ---------- Page WITNESSES Mitchell, the Honorale Derek, President, National Democratic Institute...................................................... 7 Ayres, Dr. Alyssa, Senior Fellow for India, Pakistan and South Asia, Council on Foreign Relations............................. 15 Twining, Dr. Daniel, President, International Republican Institute...................................................... 30 APPENDIX Hearing Notice................................................... 63 Hearing Minutes.................................................. 64 Hearing Attendance............................................... 65 STATEMENT SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD Statement submitted for the record from Representative Connolly.. 66 AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL LETTER Amensty International letter submitted for the record............ 68 STEMMING A RECEDING TIDE: HUMAN RIGHTS AND DEMOCRATIC VALUES IN ASIA Tuesday, September 22, 2020 House of Representatives Subcommittee on Asia, the Pacific, and Nonproliferation Committee on Foreign Affairs Washington, DC, The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:06 a.m., in room 2172 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Ami Bera (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Mr. Bera. The Subcommittee on Asia, the Pacific, and Nonproliferation will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess of the committee at any point, and all members will have 5 days to submit statements, extraneous materials, and questions for the record, subject to the length limitation in the rules. To insert something into the record, please have your staff email the previously mentioned address or contact full committee staff. As a reminder to members, please keep your video function on at all times, even when you are not recognized by the chair. Members are responsible for muting and unmuting themselves, and please remember to mute yourself after you finish speaking. Consistent with the House Resolution 965 and the accompanying regulations, staff will only mute members and witnesses as appropriate when they are not under recognition to eliminate background noise. I ask unanimous consent that the--that Representatives Trone and Chabot participate in this hearing. I see that we have a quorum and will now recognize myself for opening remarks. Pursuant to notice, we are holding a hearing to discuss human rights and democracy in Asia. Last year, under the leadership of Congressman Sherman, this subcommittee held a series of hearings examining human rights and democratic governance in Asia, and that reflects a long-standing interest in the importance this subcommittee and the full committee holds for human rights and democratic values. Human rights and democratic governance have not only been central to the concerns of Congress; they have traditionally been core to the conduct of American foreign policy. One of the greatest strengths of the United States lies in our values, including our respect for democratic and human rights. As I often tell our friends and partners, we will not always be perfect but we should at least try. The United States has its own faults and shortcomings when it comes to living up to our own values, from disparate treatment of communities of color and immigrants to institutions increasingly influenced more by ideology than the rule of law. That said, we welcome criticism and feedback just as our partners around the world and in the region should also recognize and welcome our feedback and criticism. This is part of what being a mature democracy is. You know, I have a genuine interest in the developing democracies in the region and over the last year, year and a half, I have had the chance to visit some emerging democracies in Malaysia, in Sri Lanka, in Nepal, and, certainly, am very interested in hearing from our witnesses as to what we can do to help these emerging democracies become stronger democracies and become mature democracies. We also--this subcommittee has in recent weeks had a hearing on what is happening in Burma and Bangladesh with the Rohingya population. Clearly, the tragedy with this population is one that not just the subcommittee but the full Congress and the world should recognize and work to resolve. In addition, in recent weeks we have also had a briefing on what is happening to the Uighur population in Xinjiang and, again, issues like that should not happen in the 21st century and, certainly, very interested in hearing from the witnesses on the current status. Last, in the current global pandemic with COVID-19 we have seen human rights and governance challenges be exacerbated by the pandemic. Nations have enacted public health measures that may be designed to limit the spread of COVID-19 but also, intentionally or unintentionally, limit civil liberties and individual rights. I look forward to the testimony of our witnesses and their insight on human rights and democratic values. And with that, let me turn it over to my good friend and the ranking member, Mr. Yoho, for 5 minutes for the purposes of his opening remarks. Mr. Yoho. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this timely hearing, and thank you to each of our witnesses for joining us today on the important human rights issue facing the Indo- Pacific region. I look forward to hearing from each of you regarding ongoing human rights conditions in specific countries as well as how the United States has done to facilitate the overall improvement of rights protection in the region. Many countries of the world, primarily Western democracies, have done a lot to promote human rights. But I feel no country has done more to promote human rights in all the regions of the world than the United States. Not to say that we are perfect, as the chairman pointed out. We are a work in progress. But we are advancing more steadily to make sure that human rights is protected all over the world. We do this not just because it is in our interests and the interests of governments around the world to preserve basic rights and freedoms for their people, but also because it is one of the founding principles of our Nation and has served as one of the cornerstones of our foreign policy. When we look at the Asia Pacific region today, we can see many successes in preserving and protecting human rights-- excuse me, protecting human rights. South Korea and Taiwan, nations that used to be ruled by brutal dictatorships, are now modern exemplars of a flourishing democracy. Mongolia, which used to be under the Soviet rule, just celebrated its 30th anniversary since its democratic transition and recently held another free and fair election with record turnout. Despite big successes for certain countries in Asia, the region remains a flashpoint for some of the worst human rights abuses in the world, with some of the worst offenders being North Korea, China, and most recently, Cambodia, where the government has effectively instituted one-party rule, jailed or exiled any political opposition, and has stepped away from its democratic roots toward some of the harshest restrictions on civil society in all of Southeast Asia, even though it's embedded in their constitution. Last year, I introduced the bipartisan Cambodia Democracy Act, which passed the House overwhelmingly. It would impose sanctions on those in Cambodia responsible for undermining democratic rule of law in the country. We must be especially cognizant of democracies in Asia in danger of backsliding into autocracy with China's help with their alternative to Western democracies, and that is Chinese socialism with Chinese characteristics. That is communism, regardless of how they paint it and try to rename it. Another country that deserves a good amount of attention during this hearing is Myanmar. Many of you may remember a hearing this committee held just over a month ago on the persecution and genocide of the Rohingya population in Myanmar, which has displaced nearly a million and killed tens of thousands. The stories coming from that country of State-sponsored violence, rape, and torture are horrible, and I wish I could say its experience was an isolated incident in the region. We know this not to be true, unfortunately. Where countries like Myanmar and North Korea have highly received--have rightly received international condemnation, sanctions, and punishment for their human rights abuses, one country in particular has remained relatively unscathed. China, one of the world's worst abusers of human rights, has escaped the kind of condemnation experienced by its bad neighbors for decades, despite being a repeat offender toward populations of millions. Just this past week, the CCP, the Chinese Communist Party, released a white paper regarding its detention of Uighurs, which this committee has focused extensively on, where it admitted to incarcerating on an average of 1.3 million Uighurs per year in a so-called reeducation centers from 2014 to 2019, compared to previously estimations of just over a million people total. This new admission confirms that China subjected potentially up to 8 million innocent people to imprisonment, brainwashing, torture, rape, forced sterilization in concentration camps for their religion, ethnicity, skin color, language, and even facial hair. If this is what the CCP regime in Beijing will publicly admit to, imagine what is actually going on behind the scenes. This is not even to mention the gross human rights abuses that continue to this day in China including the hostile takeover of Hong Kong and abuse of peaceful protestors, disappearance of Falun Gong members through imprisonment, the forced organ harvesting, harsh repression of the Tibetan people, and the erasure of the culture and ethnic history of the inhabitants of Inner Mongolia. Congress and the administration has taken significant actions over the past years on human rights, including the passage of the Uighur Human Rights Act, the Hong Kong Autonomy Act, and the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act, and passed by both the House and the Senate. The Uighur Act, which would impose the harshest export restrictions yet in response to China's cultural genocide. The next never again is happening right before our eyes. We have heard this over and over again. It is up to our leaders and the people decide whether we will live up to those words or continue to be willfully blind as bystanders. Thank you, and I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on these important issues. Mr. Bera. Thank you, Ranking Member Yoho. I will now introduce our witnesses. Our witnesses for today's hearing are the Honorable Derek Mitchell, Dr. Alyssa Ayres, and Dr. Daniel Twining. I would like to thank all of our witnesses for being here today. The Honorable Derek Mitchell is currently president of the National Democratic Institute. He previously served as the first Ambassador to Burma in 22 years and as the State Department's first special representative and policy coordinator for Burma. Dr. Alyssa Ayres is a senior fellow for India, Pakistan, and South Asia at the Council on Foreign Relations. She previously served as deputy assistant secretary of State for South Asia from 2010 to 2013. Dr. Daniel Twining is the president of the International Republican Institute. He has previously served on the State Department policy planning staff and as a foreign policy advisor to Senator McCain. I will now recognize each witness for 5 minutes, and without objection your prepared written statements will be made part of the record. I will first call on Ambassador Mitchell for his testimony. Ambassador Mitchell. STATEMENT OF DEREK MITCHELL, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTE Mr. Mitchell. Well, thank you, and good morning, Chairman Bera, Ranking Member Yoho, distinguished members of this committee. I do want to thank you for inviting me to testify today about a critical region and an issue very close to my heart that I consider crucial to America's strategic interests, democracy and human rights. For nearly four decades, my organization, the National Democratic Institute, working alongside our partners at the International Republican Institute and the National Endowment for Democracy, has assisted the spread and institutionalization of democracy around the world. Let me say at the start that we can only do this work thanks to the sustained bipartisan support of Congress, including from this subcommittee. So for that, we are truly grateful. NDI has a long history of democracy building in Asia, beginning with the first international election mission that NDI and IRI jointly observed in 1986 in the Philippines. Today, NDI maintains nearly a dozen offices in the Indo- Pacific region, and last week, we just received clearance from the Taiwan government to open an office in Taipei, which we will do soon. In my view, the defining issue of our time is what rules, norms, and values will guide nations and serve as the foundation of the international system in the 21st century. Given the weight of its economic, demographic, military, and cultural power, how political developments play out in Asia will go far to determine the outcome of this contest and that, in turn, will have a direct impact on American security and prosperity in the coming century. It is no secret, however, that democracy in Asia, like elsewhere, faces increasing headwinds. Economic underdevelopment, weak institutions, corrupt elites, and deepening ethnic, religious, and socioeconomic divisions have created a well of insecurity and popular dissatisfaction that is being exploited by undemocratic actors. Authoritarian opportunists are seizing on the pandemic to close civic space and assault fundamental freedoms. New digital technologies have both empowered and undermined democratic forces. Disinformation over social media platforms continues to exacerbate social and political divisions, undermine democratic discourse, and promote hate against targeted typically minority populations. And while not the main reason for democratic regression in Asia, China's growing power and influence is a critical enabler for the spread of illiberal values throughout the region. China's policies consistently support the maintenance of autocratic systems in neighboring countries. Its testing and deployment of an Orwellian State surveillance system to ruthlessly control the Uighur population in Xinjiang is not staying in Xinjiang. The Communist Party fears free and open debate at home but then seeks to exploit open societies to make its deceptive case abroad. But through its handling of Hong Kong, Tibet, the Uighurs, Taiwan, and other matters foreign and domestic, the world can now see clearly the emptiness and coercive violence at the core of the CCP system. The CCP's need for its surveillance State may demonstrate their system's weakness, but that makes it no less dangerous to the health and wellbeing of others. Despite troubling trends in Asia, we should not be blind to positive signals, though. The democratic values remain strongly embedded in the region. An expanding number of Asian nations are holding credible elections on a regular basis. Civil society watchdog organizations and the media continue to fight for their rights to preserve democratic norms and protect civic space. Mass popular movements throughout the region demonstrate widespread demand for political reform and government accountability. Young people, including many women, are driving many of these movements for change and they are beginning to form networks such as the so-called Milk Tea Alliance among netizens from Thailand, Taiwan, and Hong Kong to show democratic solidarity across borders. These young people represent an alternative vital future for democracy in Asia, despite current headwinds. It is essential, therefore, that those who believe in principles of freedom and democracy stand together like those young people in solidarity across borders to promote and defend these values. Tides that recede can roll in again, but they rarely do without assistance, gravitational or otherwise. America must lead but cannot and should not stand alone in its support. Our closest democratic partners in Asia--Japan, Korea, Australia, India, Indonesia, Taiwan, and others--can also help us to promote democratic values and provide tangible support for transparent, accountable, inclusive, and representative governance. We should build partnerships with civil society and the private sector, creating networks of common purpose to create a normative model for the region. We must demand that digital technologies and platforms do their part to serve as responsible stewards of civic empowerment. We must elevate the democratic rights of women, young people, and other traditionally marginalized communities to bring new generations and perspectives to the table and ensure fresh approaches are applied to fresh challenges. And, finally, the United States and its allies must be prepared for the long game. Democracy is never easy, it is rarely linear, it is forever a work in progress. We must stay engaged over the long term. When the political conditions seem to be advancing or receding, we must succumb neither to euphoria nor fatalism, never lose heart or lose faith, and that is why NDI is redoubling its efforts throughout Asia, and with Congress's support, we and our partners will continue to do our part to affirm the essential dignity of every individual and protect the sovereign independence of every Asian nation and its citizen to control their own future without malign interference. So, again, I want to thank the chairman and ranking member and members of this committee for your support for U.S. democracy assistance worldwide, and I look forward to our discussion. [The prepared statement of Mr. Mitchell follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Bera. Thank you, Ambassador. I will now call on Dr. Ayres. STATEMENT OF DR. ALYSSA AYRES, SENIOR FELLOW FOR INDIA, PAKISTAN AND SOUTH ASIA, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS Dr. Ayres. Thank you very much, Chairman Bera, Ranking Member Yoho, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the invitation to appear before you on the question of human rights and democratic values in Asia. I am honored to be part of this distinguished panel and to join my former colleagues, Ambassador Derek Mitchell and Dr. Daniel Twining, this morning. And thank you for convening this hearing on a critically important topic. Ten years ago, South Asia appeared to be a region of promise and an overall strengthening of democracy region wide. India had witnessed the world's largest exercise of democracy at its 2009 general election. Bangladesh had a democratically elected government after a period of caretaker rule. Nepal has come out of a decades-long civil war and is writing a new constitution. The Maldives had an elected government after decades of dictatorship. Challenges in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Sri Lanka remained. But combined with the positive shifts in the region, democracy appeared to be on the upswing. Today, the regional picture looks less bright and this, of course, comes against the larger backdrop of China's assertiveness and its strengthened ties with most South Asian countries, offering assistance and touting the benefits of authoritarian rule. Global trends offer reason for concern as well. So South Asia, unfortunately, tracks developments elsewhere. In that respect, the United States' single most important foreign policy tool to encourage and strengthen human rights and democratic values around the world lies in the power of our example. Although this hearing focuses on Asia, I cannot help but observe that the problems here on the home front have tarnished our appeal and undermined our ability to urge others to live up to the highest ideals. Now, my written statement provides highlights of some of the most urgent concerns in South Asia along with some indices for reference. But, of course, it only offers a select set of issues, given the constraints of time. The world's largest democracy, India, has experienced substantial upheavals since the reelection of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government last year and to the steps the government has taken that have spurred concern about the future of Indian secularism and the place of minorities, particularly Muslims. These steps include the abrogation of Kashmir's traditional autonomy, accompanied but a security crackdown, and prevented detention of politicians. The issue of the Citizenship Amendment Act and the proposed scenario of a national citizenship register led to mass protests in the country and created fears about possible Statelessness. India remains the one country in South Asia that Freedom House categorizes as free, and that is by a wide margin compared with every other country in the region. The third party assessments of the health of Indian democracy including the health of the institutions of liberal democracy see things moving in a negative direction. Because India is so important to the strength of the global democratic order at a time of great strain, challenges in India are ones we should all care about deeply. Bangladesh has been moving toward a more authoritarian system, despite its electoral democracy, and it struggles with labor rights and workplace safety. On the bright side, it has served as a place of refuge for nearly 1 million Rohingya refugees. But this long-running humanitarian emergency has not end in sight. Sri Lanka, after a 5-year period of improvement, is now moving in the other direction with the return of the Rajapaksa government. The new political configuration will not pursue progress on reconciliation and accountability for the end of the civil war, and the newly elected parliament is already hard at work with a constitutional amendment to expand Presidential powers. Pakistan has struggled with democracy for much of its existence with civil-military tensions, a long-standing problem, along with terrorism, sectarian violence, and the persecution of religious minorities. Afghanistan is in Freedom Houses' ``not free'' category, the only such country in the region. A peace process is currently underway and the international security presence is shrinking. So the question of protecting human rights gains, especially for women, looms large. Nepal and Maldives are challenged in their own ways but are the two countries in the region currently with an upward trajectory on human rights and democracy, and on Nepal we should not forget about the pressures the government faces from China on the issue of Tibetan refugees. I want to underscore that the United States can provide a more powerful example by improving our own human rights and democracy here at home. Congress's role in shining a spotlight on these questions is an important signal in and of itself. In South Asia, there is no substitute for diplomacy on these issues and Congress should urge the Trump Administration to elevate the priority of the issues outlined in my written statement. While engagement on defense and security issues should remain a priority, South Asia is a vital part of the Indo- Pacific region. A better balance with the complete range of bilateral issues, including human rights and democracy, should be restored. Strengthening the State Department, filling empty positions, and empowering the department with a budget appropriate for the challenges, and providing USAID with appropriate democracy and government support to ensure this important area does not get crowded out by more substantially resourced accounts, should be the highest umbrella priorities toward rebalancing our own diplomatic engagement on these questions. Thank you very much, and I look forward to the discussion. [The prepared statement of Dr. Ayres follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Bera. Thank you, Dr. Ayres. And finally, Dr. Twining. STATEMENT OF DR. DANIEL TWINING, PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL REPUBLICAN INSTITUTE Dr. Twining. Thank you, Chairman Bera, Ranking Member Yoho, members of the committee. Thanks for you vital leadership in holding this important hearing. IRI is a nonprofit nonpartisan organization working in over 90 countries around the world. We trace our roots back to President Reagan's belief that freedom is not the sole prerogative of a lucky few but the inalienable and universal right of all human beings. Senator John McCain was our chairman for 25 years and in his spirit we believe support for democracy abroad is not a Republican or Democratic Party value. It is an American value that advances our national interest. More people live under democracy in Asia than in any other region of the world. But too many countries still grapple with low-level institutions, weak democratic cultures, endemic corruption, and internal conflict. When we rightly celebrate democratic bright spots in the region, from the Maldives to Taiwan, Asia's democratic deficits have been exacerbated by the COVID pandemic. We should be clear-eyed about the challenges but we should not lose hope or falter in our commitment to stand with billions of people who want nothing more than to live in free, prosperous, and just societies. China is home to four-fifths of those still living under authoritarianism globally. Inside the country, the Communist Party brutally crushes dissent and runs a ruthless surveillance State. The CCP is carrying out a campaign of forced detention and population control in the Xinjiang and has unilaterally revoked political freedoms in Hong Kong, the richest part of China where citizens do not accept the party's offer of prosperity without rights. China's leaders want to make the world safe for autocracy. Across Asia, Beijing bolsters the fortunes of illiberal actors and provides tools and talking points to justify repression. Manipulation of the information space in many countries weakens institutions like free media and civil society that otherwise would expose the dangers of China's opaque deal making and corrupt practices. Beyond China, the past year has seen countries once viewed as bright spots for democracy, like Malaysia and Sri Lanka, regress due to political infighting, personality politics, and failure to deliver promised reforms. The Rohingya refugee crisis hampers Burma's democratic development. The Philippines is one of the deadliest countries in the world for human rights defenders. Crackdowns on press freedom under the cover of COVID have been prevalent in the Philippines, Fiji, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, and Bangladesh. Despite these substantial challenges, we, IRI, like my colleagues, remain hopeful about this region's democratic future. There are more than 1 billion young people between the age of 15 and 29 in Asia. Asian youth make up over 60 percent of the world's youth. They make up more than 25 percent of Asia's population. In Hong Kong and Thailand, young people are leading the way in protest movements to push back on authoritarianism. Young leaders in Malaysia were the driving force behind lowering the voting age from 21 to 18, which could add 4 million youth to its voter rolls. Youth in Nepal have held the government to account for a lackluster response to COVID. President Reagan said, quote, ``Democracy is not a fragile flower. Still, it needs cultivating.'' Democratic gains from Indonesia to Mongolia offer proof of the value of U.S. assistance in, quote, ``cultivating democracy.'' Congress, including this committee, has played a decisive role in supporting Asians' quest for freedom, and that work is not done. To support those fighting for free societies, America must continue bolstering the capacity of civil society, political parties, and independent media. These institutions are essential to building solid democracies and pushing back against democratic erosion. America should continue supporting dynamic young activists with the knowledge and skills to be democratic leaders in their communities. Our support for democracies strengthens Asian countries' sovereignty. It helps them make independent choices that benefit their people, not some foreign power. Chinese assistance too often entraps countries in debt or corrupts their elites. By contrast, U.S. support for accountability, transparency, and democratic decisionmaking helps ensure we have capable partners who can make their own choices, including in foreign policy. The United States needs to use all the tools in our toolkit of leadership. China pursues its interests not only by projecting force but very much through sharp power instruments of influence: information operations, united front tactics, export of surveillance technologies, and forms of political corruption and economic capture. Bolstering democratic resiliency in Asia against malign foreign influence is a U.S. national security interest. Our military strength is pivotal and our economic depth attracts partners, but our best Asian allies are democracies. The core values of liberty, justice, and equality should remain at the heart of our regional engagement. They are universal ideals to which people across Asia still aspire and they are also what China's leaders fear most. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to your questions. [The prepared statement of Dr. Twining follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Bera. Thank you to all the witnesses. I will now recognize members for 5 minutes each, and pursuant to House rules, all time yielded is for the purposes of questioning our witnesses. Because of the hybrid format of this hearing, I will recognize members by committee seniority, alternating between Democrats and Republicans. If you miss your turn, please let our staff know and we will circle back to you. If you seek recognition, you must unmute your microphone and address the chair verbally. I will start by recognizing myself for 5 minutes. You know, I appreciate the testimony of all there witnesses. A year ago, almost exactly a year ago, we were--had the opportunity to travel to Malaysia and the Philippines, and in Malaysia with the Mahathir government you saw young burgeoning democracy by you also--you know, I think it was very evident to the members who were traveling with me the fragility of these young parliamentarians who were trying to figure out how to be successful. And we had our folks from the embassy and our staff on the ground. The same thing in the Philippines. We had a chance to meet with some of the young parliamentarians that were dynamics but very much have interest in democratic values and the rights of their citizens, again, against the backdrop of Duterte. I had a chance in February to travel to Sri Lanka shortly after the Rajapaksa government came in, to really try to urge them on a path of reconciliation. I had the chance to visit India last February and, again, just deliver a message that India's strength is being a secular democracy where you can have 750 million Hindus living side by side with 250 Muslims and still be functioning, and also on that same trip had a chance to visit Nepal where there is a sense of optimism. They are trying. I guess the question for Ambassador Mitchell and Dr. Twining both NDI and IRI are working extremely hard to take these young emerging democracies and create sustainable democracies. What are the things that we should be focused on in Congress and the tools that you have that can help these democracies become more successful? And we see that fragility in Nepal, Sri Lanka, Malaysia. What accounts for this fragility and what are some of the tools that NDI and IRI are seeing that actually are working very well on the ground? I guess I will start with Ambassador Mitchell. Mr. Mitchell. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that question, and let me just say, first, it is great to hear how you have gone to the region, gone to these places and represented these values, as you had suggested, of making the case as to why this matters to the United States, why it matters to the U.S. Congress, and I am sure many of the other members of the committee have done the same. I think that is very important for ensuring that there is at least a floor amidst this backsliding to show that America is still engaged and aware and alert and concerned. What we do--what we have to recognize is, as we said before and as you recognize, too, is that things move forward and back. We have to be patient, first of all. There are not silver bullets to this. But what we try to do is create at least some guardrails and some safeguards. What is critical when these things happen is that at least there are some institutions, civil society organizations that are protected, media organizations that get support, capacity is built, that things still are moving forward even if at the national level it seems to be regressing. So I think focusing on the youth empowerment. I mean, the problem in many of these countries you have the same old guys. When you look at Nepal, the demographics of the leadership in Nepal, these guys have been doing the same thing for 40 years together. You can say that in Malaysia with Mahathir and Anwar and the UMNO kind of gamesmanship. Sri Lanka Rajapaksas have been around for a while. There is a lot of the old guard holding on, doing the same old things and there is just a lot of frustration beneath the surface. So it may seem that there is not much progress and, certainly, there is regression in these places and there is turmoil and there is frustration. Steps forward in the Sri Lanka election or a step forward in Malaysia suddenly gets sort of turned back because people get frustrated that the government is not delivering. I think what we can try to do when democracy has a chance, when it has its moment and there is a moment where there is some more--there is hope, that government needs to deliver and we need to help it deliver the goods--economic goods, political goods, give space and try to encourage these governments that if you do not do that it will regress and it will leave space for demagogues. Mr. Bera. Right. Dr. Twining? Dr. Twining, do you want to add? [No response.] Dr. Twining. Can you hear me now? Mr. Bera. We can hear you now. Thank you. Dr. Twining. Sorry about that. I had a microphone issue. Just very quickly, there is no silver bullet, sir. But staying the course, supporting independent institutions so that power is not concentrated in one man, one woman, one actor in the executive branch. Those civil society watchdogs, those youth groups, those activities are vital. That free media. We saw in Indonesia a huge U.S. emphasis on democracy support in the first decade after its transition and then, frankly, the U.S. stepped back from a lot of that support, thinking that the work was done, and we have seen some slippage in Indonesia. The work is, unfortunately, not done anywhere in Asia. The kind of parliamentary engagement you offer, and your colleagues, matters in helping build parliamentary oversight capabilities, really getting youth involved and invested in politics. Connecting them into political parties, connecting them into public life is really, in terms of the long--the long game how Asian democracy succeeds because a lot of it is for them, not the old guys Derek mentioned. Thank you. Mr. Bera. Great. Thank you. Let me go--let me go and recognize the ranking member, Mr. Yoho, for 5 minutes of questions. Mr. Yoho. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate all of our witnesses. You know, as I hear the testimony and Dr. Ayres, you brought up how we need to fill vacancies, do more funding, more vacancies filled, and I agree with all of that. But this is not a new issue. This is something that is--you know, we have looked at this and as I hear all the testimoneys, we look at our foreign policy, we can look back 20, 30, 40 years and those policies go to good governance, democracy, lack of corruption, and all these things and the American taxpayers have spent hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars to do this around the world. Yet, we are backsliding. And so we need a new game plan, especially with the horizon of China offering their form of democracy with Chinese characteristics. There is a lot of money going out there and money corrupts people if there's people around, and certainly we have our own problems in this country. So starting with you, Ambassador Mitchell, you have been around this, I think, since 1971 or I forget what--no, it wouldn't be that long. You'd be a lot older than what you look like on the screen. But you have been around this for a while. What--I mean, you, obviously, have a perspective where you can say, well, you guys up in Washington redirect this and tell us to do something different from the State Department. I would like to hear your thoughts on that, and anybody else that wants to weigh in on that. Mr. Mitchell. Well, thank you. Yes, 1971 I was, I think, 7 years old. I am showing my age. [Laughter.] Mr. Yoho. You were just ahead of your time. Mr. Mitchell. Indeed. Well, look, first of all, I would take issue with respect on the amount of money that has been put into this, in fact. I mean, the militarization, the use of the military in whether it is Iraq or Afghanistan, that is the trillions of dollars. That wasn't really about democracy building. There was a component of that nation building. But the work that we do are really in the hundreds of millions for a global fight and billions over the years. So it is actually cost effective, and I would also say that there is a lot more--as I suggest, there's a lot more happening beneath the surface. This stuff seems to regress but Sam Huntington used to talk about tides and waves of democracy. They go out and they recede, and he actually predicted in 1991, going back to then, I think it was a piece in 1991, 1992, that there will be a receding tide, and he actually predicted the conditions upon which that would happen and those are things that are exactly happening. When you talk about technology, talk about the rise of new great powers, he talked about regression in Russia and in Eastern Europe, I mean, it is remarkable. So but what we have now, what we have been able to build is an expectation among people that this is not satisfactory. But, unfortunately, people are voting for some of these demagogues and voting for some of these authoritarian leaders. Those authoritarian leaders get in, they start chipping away at the safeguards and at the liberal components--you know, the civil society, the media, free media, and all the rest. But people are fighting back. This is not over. So what we have done is created the kind of expectation. We have created the capacities. We have created, I think, networks and generations of people that expect and demand something different. Unfortunately, it has only been, really, a generation, when you think about it--the 1990's. I think we declared victory too soon, as Dan Twining, I think, suggested. This is a long-term fight. It will have forward and back. So I think--I do not want to say stay the course. We have to adjust. We have to deal with things like the new technologies. We have to deal---- Mr. Yoho. Right. Let me--let me break in here, because you brought up something, and if we go back to Ben Franklin, I think it was in 1779 where he said, when asked what kind of government we have, he said, ``A republic, if you can keep it.'' So we know these things are difficult. We know having a democratic process to form a government is difficult. But yet, it is worth it because what you brought up or somebody brought up, liberty and freedom is not something innate or is not something solely for the American people. It's an innate quality that has been bestowed upon us by our Creator that all people aspire to around the world. And I guess what I want to do is move on, and I appreciate your comments, is to move on to how do we--and I do not want to say force--how do we compel the leaders of those countries to say, you know what, we want what you have, and bring them this way and pull them with our foreign policy and with our--with the tools we have? You know, and, of course, the DFC is a new tool that we can use to get them to come this way and have metrics in there if they do not meet that to be willing to take it away from them. Anybody? I have got 16 seconds. Dr. Twining. Mr. Yoho, I would just say, U.S. engagement has been an extraordinary source of democratization in Asia---- Mr. Yoho. I agree. I agree. Mr. Twining [continuing]. Not just through democracy assistance but through our alliance and security relationships. When we think about the dictatorships you mentioned--South Korea, Taiwan--these are now very strong democracies, and our engagement helps countries steer themselves on the right course. But that requires making sure that democracy is at the center of our engagement. We should also note that China is so vociferously attacking democracy, including in allied nations, including in very robust democracies like Australia, where they have insinuated themselves into domestic political life and information and free media because the Chinese see this as a way to weaken our leadership and hurt our friends. So we should care about democracy for that reason, too. Mr. Yoho. Absolutely. I agree. I have got to yield back because I am over my time, and thank you all. Mr. Bera. Let me recognize my good friend from California, Mr. Sherman. Mr. Sherman. Mr. Chair, I thank you for having this hearing, and building on the series of human rights hearings we did in this subcommittee last year. To reprise some of the things we learned in those hearings, we've seen a government in Burma--Myanmar--installed in part because of human rights concerns around the world, in fact, turn out to be a catastrophe with regard to the human rights of the Rohingya people, intent upon ethnic cleansing if not genocide. We saw the Philippines devolve from an imperfect democracy into a country where democratic values are barely adhered to. We saw that in Pakistan in the southern province of Sindh, Hindu girls kidnapped, forced to convert and marry to old men, and we see political activists there imprisoned and disappeared. And, finally, and this probably should be underlined because it can get lost, is we see China getting $1 billion $2 billion in World Bank concessionary loans. This is outrageous because, first, China does not need concessionary loans. It has all the capital it needs. Second, because this finances a government that oppresses its people, and third, because it steals World Bank resources from those governments that are really trying to help their people rather than using their economic power to, say, take over the South China Sea. Our witnesses have brought a couple of important points to our attention. I like the phrase ``making the world safe for autocracy'' and I will point out that when we make a mockery of democracy in the United States or as they try to make a mockery with their interference in our election, they make it--they do more to make the world safe for autocracy. And Dr. Ayres reminded us that Freedom House has indicated that India is--has the highest rating, really, in South Asia and continues to be a vibrant democracy. Of course, at hearings last year we explored some issues in India as well. The question is what can the United States do. We are focused on the floor this week on the Uighurs. Several weeks ago, we passed and we saw signed into law the Hong Kong Autonomy Act, and I want to thank Ranking Member Yoho and Senators Van Hollen and Toomey for their work in getting that passed into law. Today, we will deal with--or today or tomorrow we will deal with the Uighur Forced Labor Prevention Act. This also builds on Congresswoman Wexton's bill to force disclosures of forced labor and indentured labor in Xinjiang. I would ask our witnesses do they have any insight into what percentage of goods imported from China are manufactured in the forced labor camps of--by the Uighurs and can the United States be effective. Last week, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection issued five withhold release orders on products with State forced labor in Xinjiang, Uighur autonomous regions. So can we be effective in determining which goods are made by slave labor? Mr. Mitchell. Do you want me to take that? I do not know, myself, whether it is worth the effort--it is worth finding out and tracing it back. I think that it is absolutely essential. And I have to say another component of the Uighur issue of the approach that we have to take is yes, we have to lead and we are on a bipartisan basis, which is extremely important. But we also need partners around the world. We are finding too many other countries, including Islamic countries, who are giving China a pass because of economics or just ideological considerations. Mr. Sherman. I would point out how many Muslim countries are deliberately ignoring, even returning to China dissidents, and the bad rap the United States gets in the world as somehow being anti-Islam and anti-Muslims when it is the United States that took the strongest action with regard to the Rohingya and it is the United States that bombed Serbia in order to protect the people of Kosovo and the Muslims of Bosnia. My time has expired. Mr. Bera. Let me go and recognize my good friend from the State of Pennsylvania, Mr. Perry. Mr. Perry. Thanks, Chairman Bera. Dr. Ayres, in your witness testimony you mentioned that the United States is guilty of disruptions to democracy here at home and that undermines our ability to sell democratic values overseas. I am just wondering, do you--do you believe there is any real comparison or moral relativism between China and the United States in the way we treat our respective citizens? Dr. Ayres. Thank you, sir. I certainly do not believe there is any comparison or moral relativism there. But I do think that when we are at our best in upholding our highest ideals, we are a much more persuasive power on the world stage. That is what I meant by my comments as I wrote in my written statement. Mr. Perry. Well, I would agree that we want to be at our best all the time. The CCP, on the other hand, has thrown 1+ million people into concentration camps. They forcibly sterilized women and facilitated a permissive rape culture in Xinjiang province. They have harvested the organs of untold members of the Falun Gong practitioners. They regularly punish those who yearn for fundamental freedoms. We absolutely can and must call out evil, and while our Nation may have issues of its own, which nation does not? Any of the issues that we have, all of the issues that we have pale in comparison to the evil of the Communist Chinese Party. Dr. Twining or Twinning--I am sorry if I butchered your name there--is China promoting authoritarianism abroad? I just wonder how do especially Asian governments and elites and public view Chinese policies on human rights? I mean, do they affect their attitudes toward a relationship with China or is it--is it more transactional, especially on economic terms? And in either case, how should we be responding to that? Dr. Twining. Great question, sir. So the answer depends on what kind of government it is. As Mr. Yoho mentioned, in Cambodia a dictator there laps up Chinese investment, is trying to build a Chinese style firewall around the internet, puts the opposition in prison, makes political opposition essentially illegal. So he is aping the Chinese style in order to cling on to power he has held for decades, including by running fake elections. So there, China's influence is welcome. Obviously, that is a net negative for the Cambodian people and for U.S. interests. In many countries, however, countries, frankly, leaders worry very much about Chinese meddling, about Chinese involvement in their information space, about China's united front tactics that suggest that somehow a Chinese Indonesian, an Indonesian of Chinese descent is really Chinese and not Indonesian. So people all over the region worry about the corrupting influence of these closed-door infrastructure deals that China does that are very nontransparent. So countries are going to transact economically with China but they want balance very much. They want to have many options and very much want to hold on to their sovereignty and their independence. That is a core principle of ASEAN. The great threat to countries' independence and sovereignty today is not the United States. That was the argument maybe decades ago. It is China, and it is meddling in many of these countries, and our response should not be to make it us versus China but it should very much be about supporting what the people of those countries want, which is free and accountable institutions, leaders who answer to them, and not Beijing or anything else. Mr. Perry. Well, then continuing on, I know that there are criticisms about the Indo-Pacific strategy, even while we went decades, in my opinion, without a coherent strategy. While there might be apt criticism of that strategy right now, at least we have one. Where would you say we are excelling and where would you say we are falling short and need further--some changes or course corrections regarding the Indo-Pacific--the current Indo-Pacific strategy? Dr. Twining. Sir, if that is for me, I would just say, very quickly, the--our allies in the Indo-Pacific want all of the engagement and all the U.S. attention they can get. It is a big world. We are a global power, but they appreciate all those congressional visits, all those leadership visits from U.S. principals. I would say we are doing well as a country with Taiwan. That relationship has grown strongly. We are still doing well with India, partly because Indians have an acute security dilemma with China and many other external concerns, and see America as their most decisive partner, even though it is not an alliance--that we are their most important security partner. We could certainly do more just in connecting with people. Not necessarily leaders, but people in Southeast Asia, the Pacific Islands. The Chinese are engaged in all sorts of scholarships, all sorts of cultural diplomacy, including in these tiny little outposts in the South Pacific. They see them as very strategic. We should want to make sure that all those countries remain free and independent so that they can be good partners and allies and provide security to their people and, again, not be answerable to a foreign country. Mr. Perry. Thank you. My time has expired. I yield. Mr. Bera. Great. Let me recognize my good friend, the gentlelady from Pennsylvania, Ms. Houlahan. Ms. Houlahan. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you very much to the witnesses who are here virtually. My question--my first couple of questions are for Mr. Mitchell and for Dr. Twining. My question--you mentioned briefly a bit about technology-- is what is the role that technology is playing right now in human rights abuses through Asia, particularly in China, Vietnam, and Thailand, and do we, as the U.S., have any diplomatic tools available to help shape international norms regarding the use of surveillance technology in human rights protections? Mr. Mitchell. Well, there are a number of factors, and you mentioned particular countries. I think a broader issue throughout Asia with technology is the proliferation of disinformation, which is in hate and division. That is extremely important. Again, when I was Ambassador in Burma it was decisive in many ways and we are seeing that in other countries. In the closed societies, it is the challenge of the digital firewall of having sort of sovereign--digital sovereignty by an individual country where there is not an open internet and, therefore, people, if they do try to communicate with each other or organize or exercise their freedoms, that they will have the authorities come in immediately and grab them. Or companies that abide by that that say, well, that's the local law. Therefore, we have to abide by it. That is simply unacceptable. I think what we need to do is help--not just talk to the companies but help the people subvert that kind of firewall and so that they are able to speak freely and engage freely with each other. Ms. Houlahan. So do we have any diplomatic tools? You mentioned a couplet that are sort of maybe more domestic in nature and, of course, the subversion. But is there anything in the diplomatic space that we have as the U.S.--and from the U.S.'s perspective? Mr. Mitchell. I am sorry. I will ask Dan to--do you want to? Dr. Twining. The administration has this--Congresswoman, a great question. The administration has this new initiative which is about the security of supply lines and including digital supply line that Under Secretary of State Keith Krach has been leading. That feels like a valuable initiative. More broadly, really, we should just, I think, understand that the contest underway in the world between freedom and autocracy, between democracy and what the Chinese have to offer, is very much taking place in the digital domain including in the information domain. We have had lots of churn at the U.S. broadcasters, including Radio Free Asia and these other instruments that are supposed to be getting free and independent news out there-- VOA. We have--we have seen the Chinese really doubling down on engaging with media, again, including in very friendly countries to us like Australia, as well as just across the region. And so paying more attention to media freedom issues, paying more attention to kind of making sure that U.S. broadcasting gets into these countries and also that democracy activists have digital tools so that democracy can fight back so that it's not simply China providing the surveillance suite to dictators but that democratic civil society activists have their own suite of technologies they can use to organize and hold governments accountable and demand more responsiveness and transparency. Ms. Houlahan. Thank you. I very much appreciate the answers and the thoughtfulness. My next question is for Mr. Mitchell again and Dr. Ayres about the Rohingya women who are, of course, suffering gross human rights abuses at the hands of the Burmese military, who are using systematically gender-based violence tactics. The current environment in which Rohingya women and girls are finding themselves in does not appear to be any safer than it has historically. What is the status of women and girls in Bangladesh refugee camps and what more can be done to address gender-based violence in this crisis? And, specifically, how can we better include women in their own discussions of human rights and protection? Perhaps Dr. Ayres could start here. Dr. Ayres. Thank you. Thank you, Congresswoman. I wasn't sure if I should step in. I would be happy to get back to you with more specific information on the status of women and girls in the refugees camps. But I can certainly say without having that detail immediately in front of me that the conditions of the camps are something that has long been a concern, and as this State of emergency and the fact that they are having to continue to live in what should only have been temporary, as long as this extends forever with no place for them to go, this becomes a real issue that needs some kind of a solution. The Bangladeshi government keeps seeking a repatriation effort, and I think we all know that there is no security for the refugees in their homes in Rakhine State. I do not know if Ambassador Mitchell has more information on this. Of course, he has spent so much of his career working directly on this issue. Ms. Houlahan. I have---- Mr. Mitchell. Thank you. Ms. Houlahan. Go ahead. Go ahead. Mr. Mitchell. Do I have time here? Yes. Ms. Houlahan. Yes. Mr. Mitchell. Just very quickly. The issue of gender-based violence, there are two aspects to it. One is what the Burmese military and the Burmese side has done to the Rohingya--to women, to men, to all--and then there is what is happening in the camps and the fact that when you are stuck in that kind of situation the frustration, the lack of access, the lack of any kind of policing or hope has created an endemic of gender-based violence against women. We have to focus on this. It gets to the broader issue of the Rohingya. Not only do we have to figure out the political aspects of it but the personal aspects of their dire situation day by day, and taking care of them as human beings and it must, as you say, include the issue of what is happening to the women. Ms. Houlahan. I apologize. I have run out of time, and I yield back. Thank you. Mr. Bera. Thank you. Let me go ahead and recognize my good friend from the State of--the gentleman from the State of Michigan who joins us virtually, Mr. Levin. Mr. Levin. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank our witnesses for helping us in this really important hearing. This month, Disney released its live action version of ``Mulan.'' Viewers quickly noticed that the credits included ``Thank you'' to the authorities in Xinjiang where the movie filmed and where China has detained an estimated 1 million or more Uighurs and other largely Muslim ethnic minorities. A ``Thank you'' even went to the Turpan Police Security Bureau, which runs the internment camps, or some of them. Hollywood taking pains to ensure films succeed in China is not new. Last month, PEN America put out a report describing how film makers make decisions about and even changes to films to appease Chinese censors. But here, and I will emphasize, it is not clear this necessarily happened. It seems possible Disney might have coordinated to some extent with the same authorities committing crimes that include torture, forced sterilization, and forced labor. Even if Hollywood does not cooperate with Chinese authorities outright, they could self-censor, as the PEN America report points out. If studios do not want to anger the Chinese government, they are not going to tell stories about the oppression of Uighurs or Tibet or about 1989, and if those stories aren't told it'll be that much easier for Chinese authorities to continue their abuses. So I will pose this question to Mr. Mitchell and Dr. Twining. What can be done to tackle this problem? Mr. Mitchell. I will start, I suppose. Well, look, money talks for--in businesses, including Hollywood, unfortunately. But exposing this, I think. Transparency. This is what China hates, I think what also anyone who is doing something that is abhorrent in terms of values hates the most. So I think PEN America did a tremendous service in their extensive report. I think you and others in the U.S. Congress spotlighting this is extremely important. I think their recommendation ensuring that whatever is done in terms of censorship, in terms of editing, in terms of violating these liberal--these democratic and human rights norms should be exposed, to be transparent about what they are doing, and I think there is a lot more attention to it in the United States and elsewhere that will create boycotts and other things that can have a great impact. That will talk probably most to companies than anything else. Dr. Twining. Congressman, thank you for flagging this. I mean, the issue is not new, but China's ambitions actually are. We are seeing a Chinese Communist Party effort to censor and control speech, not just in China, which has always been the case, but now outside of China. We have seen with BNBA, we have seen with Disney, as you correctly point out, that they want to change the conversation in America about sensitive topics in China. And I suspect you will agree that Americans will not stand for that. That is not something that will go over well with America and our free speech traditions. I should add that the Chinese Communist Party, as part of this extraordinary national security law they imposed unilaterally in Hong Kong, have made it a crime to support freedom for Hong Kong, to support the basic rights of Hong Kong citizens as enshrined in their constitution. They have made it a crime to support those rights anywhere in the world. They have sanctioned Derek Mitchell and me personally for our support for the people of Hong Kong. So this is an extraterritorial attempt, again, to make the world safer for Chinese autocracy in the digital domain, in the cultural domain with movies, and free society should not stand for it. Mr. Levin. Well, absolutely. And let me stick you with the Uighurs for a minute. Let me ask both of you, what do you think are the areas of the U.S.-China relationship that give us the greatest leverage to use to try to influence Chinese policies and activities in Xinjiang. Do you have any ideas about things that we as the Congress could do in this regard? Or the administration, I guess. Mr. Mitchell. Yes. It is difficult--too much leverage when China wants to do something on their own turf like this. But I do think that embarrassing them, exposing it, they hate that. They absolutely hate that, and sending around word to allies, to partners, to the world, I think that has a huge impact as we have seen already when this was exposed as it was in Hong Kong and otherwise, and Tibet. I think sanctioning individuals and targeting sanctions is very important. I think that also hurts them where it matters. I think the economics, as you say, of targeting those businesses that do the--American business, Western businesses, any businesses that are doing work there, that hits them where they hurt. What the Chinese Communist Party most wants is they want to maintain their hold in their country, and how they do that is via economic development. So the degree that you can hit them in the pocketbook and in their reputation in the glory of the new Chinese rejuvenation I think is the best leverage you can have. Mr. Levin. Well, thank you. Mr. Chairman, I see my time has expired. I could ask questions about Burma and the Rohingya refugee camps and so forth but I better yield back. Thank you so much. Mr. Bera. Thank you. Let me go ahead and recognize the gentlelady from the great State of Virginia, Ms. Spanberger, who joins us virtually. Ms. Spanberger. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. Mr. Mitchell, I would like to begin with a conversation and a question for you. Terrorism and COVID-19 are very real risks and, unfortunately, in some cases we do see governments manipulating these real risks for political convenience in order to justify repression and democratic backsliding, and we can see this in Xinjiang and in Hong Kong as well as other places. I am curious for your perspective on how we have seen this play out in the past few years. Do you believe this trend is getting worse and could you speak a little bit within the COVID-19 context of what has been the experience on the ground and what you have witnessed? Mr. Mitchell. Well, thank you for the question, Congresswoman. Absolutely. I mean, look, authoritarian is the enemy of democracy. When you inspire fear and you say the terrorists are coming or we have an enemy within or whatever it is or through the pandemic, which is real scary--all of that is real--then you can say, look, you have to give us more power. We have to centralize the power to ensuring our security, and then that is ripe for demagogues. And we are seeing that today within the China sphere. We are seeing that in Cambodia. We have seen that in the Philippines. We have seen that all over the place. You will see that in Sri Lanka after the Easter day--Easter Sunday bombing. And in Burma they say, look, we were attacked by the Rohingya. Now we have to go and attack them, and they have been saying it for 70 years--we have enemies within, therefore you need the military in the middle here. Otherwise, we will fall apart and our security will be destroyed. So we are seeing it--you know, you do not need an excuse for a pandemic. The pandemic gave a perfect excuse to--for Cambodia and others to declare these emergencies and crack down on civil society and the media or any that say that you are not living up to the democratic promise that you give us. Ms. Spanberger. And a little bit of followup then. What advice would you have for governments or for civil society efforts that are working to ensure these threats are not exaggerated, that there are--that they are not utilized as justifications for limitations on civil liberties and for organizations trying to get the real facts of both being aggressive against this virus but ensuring that that fear that comes with the virus isn't being utilized as a tool. Mr. Mitchell. Yes. Well, I think keeping that fight going. I mean, keep it going. But, look, you can point to where there have been successes in Asia. They can point to where things have happened in the world, but we are talking about Asia. Look what happened in Korea--South Korea. Look what happened in Taiwan. Look what happened in New Zealand and other places where these democracies they partnered with civil society. They partnered with young people who took--with the technologies that exist. They did not use surveillance to oppress people. They used surveillance to get good information out and they then bounded that surveillance with--by saying we will only use it for this amount of time and it will be under the control of a nongovernmental actor. It will be transparent. It will be under law and through those partnerships. I mean, Taiwan has seven deaths. I mean, it is incredible. In Korea--South Korea--same thing. They had an election where no one--they had an election where people during the pandemic came out with their masks and nobody died. So it is able to be done, and you can point to these circumstances where, yes, other conditions are--other places have different conditions and you have to be careful. But partnering, being transparent, operating under law is not weakness. That is strength and that is the only way you build the civic trust. You get people to go along with you and to deal with the pandemic in a thoughtful and sustained way. Ms. Spanberger. And, Mr. Mitchell, that is such a good point, particularly as we have crossed the threshold of 200,000 lives lost here in the United States. So just recognizing the success other nations have had without the limitations on civil liberties I think is important. And, Dr. Ayres, with the remaining time, if I could put it over to you, very briefly. Telehealth has been a major priority of mine. I represent rural communities throughout central Virginia, although our suburban communities love telehealth access as well. One of the things I am hearing from many of my constituents with families back home, particularly in Kashmir, have been related to access to health care, particularly given some of the communications limitations that exist. Could you speak to the limitations that you have seen, what is the ever evolving circumstance on the ground, and provide any comments for us to have a clear understanding of what continues to be the on-the-ground experience in Kashmir? Dr. Ayres. Thank you very much for that important question. Yes, as I think the world saw the abrogation of Kashmir's traditional autonomy more than a year ago was accompanied by, essentially, a communications blackout. Now, communications have slowly been restored. It was restored first in the Jammu region, not yet in--then later restoration in the Muslim majority region of Kashmir. There was an important Supreme Court ruling, actually, that took place in India in January of this year where the Supreme Court stated that communications disruptions or communications blackout cannot go on indefinitely. So that formed the basis for which--under which the restoration of communications very slowly was restored into the Kashmir region. It is my understanding that communications, including mobile communications at the 2G level have largely been restored, although there may be some districts in Kashmir that do not always have 4G access. I saw a press report in August that there were a couple districts in Kashmir as recently as August of this year that had sporadic 4G access. There is a security concern, which I am sure you can appreciate, about the ability of terrorists to use 4G in order to coordinate. So that is another layer on top of all of this. But I think the important check and balance on this question is the fact that the Supreme Court did have that decision about the importance of the fundamental right of access to communications. Ms. Spanberger. Doctor, thank you for handling that. Mr. Chairman, thank you for allowing me to go over with my time, and I yield back. Mr. Bera. Thank you. Let me go ahead and recognize the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Connolly, who joins us virtually. Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for holding this hearing. I am sorry I am late. I had three conflicts at 10 o'clock and I have not got tri-location down yet. I would like to pick up on--you know, I cannot see who said it to Ms. Spanberger but you were talking about progress and you cited South Korea and Taiwan. But it looks to me, frankly, like Asia, if anything, has regressed. Whether it is the Philippines, whether it is even India, certainly China we seem to have regressed with respect to any kind of semblance of a free press that is unfettered and free expression and outright human rights violations. And I wonder if you could just talk about the regression part because what can we do? What leverage have we got to try to reverse some of these stringent measures that have been undertaken by even so-called ally countries like Philippines that have been rather extraordinary in the last few years? Dr. Twining. Derek, do you want to start? Mr. Mitchell. I start? Okay. Well, look, there are--first of all, we cannot lose hope. We have to recognize that--as we talked a little bit earlier on this that we have to be quite patient with this, that things go forward and back, and that there are some old guards here that continue to push things in a regressive direction. And we have younger generations and mass movements and other things going on beneath the surface that are not giving up and that are demonstrating resilience against this backward tide. And we have to maintain our support, strong support. We have to put the U.S., along with our allies--we have to get our allies involved in the region. We have, as I mentioned, these democratic allies of Japan and Taiwan and Korea and the others to be with us on this. We have to fortify civil society. We have to support them that exist via oversight, to continue to be resilient against the backsliding to raise a flag. But in some ways, we cannot control what happens in these countries, going back to some old instincts. But there are new generations that see things differently, that have different expectations. So as we see things happening, I am not being complacent and I am not suggesting you are wrong. We are seeing regression worldwide. We also have to recognize that beneath the surface there are economics and expectations that are quite positive and that we need to invest in women as well in order to turn this tide and not lose faith. Mr. Connolly. And if I could just interrupt. But I would assume that, obviously, having the president of the United States either ignore human rights discussions when he meets with foreign leaders or converses with them is a huge problem because let us take a leader like Duterte in the Philippines. He, clearly, takes the signal that that is not a priority and that is an enabling and empowering fact in and of itself, the absence of that conversation, the absence of an insistence on civil society, human rights respect, and so forth. Would you say that that fact has also perhaps aggravated ongoing problems in the region because of lack of this vacuum we have created in terms of American outspokenness and insistence on adherence to these valued? Mr. Mitchell. Well, I won't speak to the politics because we are not involved in the domestic politics and we should not be as NDI or IRI. Mr. Connolly. Hold it. Hold it. I am not talking about domestic politics. I am talking about statements from the president of the United States to foreign leaders and conversations with foreign leaders, and whether, from your perspective, it has had a deleterious impact on the work we are talking about. Mr. Mitchell. Right. Well, let me--let me put it this way. I think the American model is extremely important. I think America's voice is extraordinarily important. I mean, my friend, Professor Ayres--Dr. Ayres mentioned this--is that, look, we matter. America's leadership and its model has mattered for generations, and we have never been perfect. We have never been--we have always been a work in progress. But our voice in support of this that the U.S. Congress certainly maintains and other voices in the United States maintained is extraordinarily important to push back against the tide and the liberal forces globally need to hear that. They need to see it, and the stronger our democracy the stronger we can demonstrate what it means to the proxy and that--and that it creates a stability and security for us, that we are a multi-ethnic multi-religious society. That will be extremely--it just puts wind behind the work that we do. So in that regard, Congressman, I completely agree with you. Mr. Connolly. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I do not know if I have any more time, but if I do perhaps another panellist would also like to address that. Dr. Twining. Congressman, I can pick it up. Thanks for all your support. You know, we have been so struck by congressional support in this recent period, and I think in Asia it's been noticed. You all have increased support for the National Endowment for Democracy. You have protected those democracy rights and governance accounts in the foreign aid bills, the foreign operations bills. So, I think we feel a strong degree of support for the work we are doing with partners across Asia from the U.S. Congress and that matters very much in Asia. So it's not just about one particular leader. It's very much about the U.S. system, and Congress has really stepped up and played a major role here and we are grateful. Thank you. Dr. Ayres. Is there time for me to quickly comment? Mr. Bera. Sure. Go ahead. Dr. Ayres. Thank you. Congressman, thank you for that observation. I would just note that from the perspective of our ability to speak out on the importance of human rights, it was extremely distressing earlier this year when the president visited India and a riot unfolded as he was there. And I recognize that diplomacy can be delicate and difficult. You do not want to necessarily get in public comments about severe problems in another country. That is for a private message. But the fact that our president did not even speak a word of grief about the deaths of people as it was unfolding I found extremely distressing, and I believe that that also undermines our ability to speak out about the importance of protecting human rights. Thank you. Mr. Connolly. Thank you. And thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bera. Thank you. Let me go ahead and recognize my good friend from the State of Maryland, Mr. Trone, who, I think, joins us virtually. Mr. Trone [continuing]. On May 2020. This enabled individuals that have lived in Kashmir for periods of 7 years for students and 15 years for those that have worked there to claim residency in the province. What are your concerns about the law and what has been the impact? Dr. Ayres. Is this for me? Mr. Trone. Yes. Dr. Ayres. Thank you very much. So this has just begun. I think what the larger concern is that you hear people discussing in India and outside of India is whether this will potentially change the demographic balance. That is, I think, the umbrella concern here. This is all so new that we do not yet have much of a sense of how it is affecting the region. In fact, I would say we would need more time to understand it. But this definitely does appear that it will create, perhaps, a different kind of ethnic balance in the place that is India's one Muslim majority territory. So that--I think that is the concern that you are addressing. Mr. Trone. Serious--a very serious concern we all have. Dr. Mitchell, in your testimony you mentioned your democratic partners and allies in Asia can, quote, ``do more to strengthen democracies at home as a way to help stem the tide of the democratic erosions on the continent.'' A few weeks ago, the New York Times reported on the situation in Jammu and Kashmir. They noted that many political moderates in the area who had one been aligned with the Indian government have become disillusioned by recent developments. Some were even arrested and detained by the Indian government last year following the status change. Disengagement among political moderates strikes me as a bad sign. What kind of support does the government enjoy among residents in Jammu and Kashmir and what type of measures should the Indian government be taking to shore up democracy? Mr. Mitchell. Well, thank you for that question. The--look, India is the largest--we would say is the largest democracy in the world. It is extremely important that its democracy and its values stay on the side of small I liberal values, and what happened in Kashmir, as you suggest, was a kind of emblematic of a regression and an increase in the kind of Hindu nationalism that is concerning to folks. And, as you say, it is pushing people to extremes. It is encouraging one extreme and it is isolating moderates. Keeping to that middle, I think, is extremely important for the future idea of India, and to the degree that it is an ally in the global fight for democracy and human rights, as suggested in the previous question, the way that we model that at home will be very important for the credibility of our work abroad. Mr. Trone. Dr. Ayres again, could you provide an assessment on the impact of India's citizenship amendment bill on year in, and has the passage of this bill played out? How has it played out in the following year and impacted Muslims in India? Dr. Ayres. Yes. Thank you for that important question. That was something that I also addressed in my written statement. It has certainly been the focus of intensive protests within India and has caught substantial attention in the United States and in other countries around the world. The citizenship amendment itself, in and of itself, was a point of protest in India because it introduced a religion question--a religious test for eligibility to fast track access to citizenship, and that issue was in and of itself disturbing to some Indian citizens because it is a secular democracy. But there is a companion issue that presented a scenario that also captured global attention including the attention of the U.N. secretary general, and that was this issue, as I outlined in my written statement. There was a national register of citizenship exercise carried out in one Indian State, in the State of Assam, and that is a unique process for that State that goes back to partition in 1947. But there were a number of cases of India's home minister stating that they would seek to carry out a similar exercise around the country. Now, people began to worry in India that such an exercise if individuals were unable to provide the necessary documentation to prove their citizenship affirmatively, Muslims, who were not named, not a named religion in the citizenship amendment, would not then be able to apply for and have access to citizenship and that might be, potentially, stateless. That combination of factors is what led to the sustained protests that you saw across India. Now, as I said in my written statement, India is a Federal democracy. You saw a series of Indian States say they would not implement this or they would not implement a national register were one to be proposed nationwide. The prime minister later stated in late December 2019 that there had not been a discussion of a nationwide roll out of a citizenship register. So for the time being, that question appears to be on hold. But, certainly, this has been a concern. It continues to be a concern within India. Thank you. Mr. Trone. Thank you, Doctor. I yield back. Mr. Bera. Thank you. Let me go ahead and recognize our colleague, the gentlelady from Nevada, Ms. Titus, who joins us virtually. Ms. Titus. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for holding this hearing today with this esteemed panel of witnesses. I can certainly attest to the really valuable work that NDI and IRI do around the country as a member of the House Democracy Partnership we have worked together on in many instances, and I am always amazed at what all they do building citizenship, working within NGO's, teaching people how to run for office, getting out the vote, dealing with corruption. It is just amazing, and they do it with so few resources. I want to say thank you and please keep it up. It is such an important part of our soft power. Mr. Mitchell, you mentioned, I think, at the beginning of your comments that democracies need public support. They need for people to have confidence in them, especially in legislatures, that they--the countries will be able to take care of them, of their citizenry, whether it is a pandemic or in an economic crisis, and that they can do that while still keeping in place or even expanding democratic norms. That means that we, as the United States, need to help to demonstrate to countries that they can thrive economically and that they can defeat a virus or they can handle national security while at the same time respecting rules of law and human rights while protecting civil liberties, supporting an independent media, implementing other democratic principles. Unfortunately, the United States is not setting the best example right now. We have seen that with the recent protests, our inability to defeat the pandemic, our lack of a plan for an economic recovery. So we are not being the best example setters. It is kind of do as we say, not as we do. So I wonder how the United States can help instill public confidence in democratic institution and actors and the abilities of their countries to deliver for them. What specific areas are there that we can help countries to achieve their goals of being more democratic while also proving to their citizens that these democratic principles really will work to their best interest? Mr. Mitchell. I will start on that. First of all, Representative Titus, thank you so much for the support on HDP, which is a really important program and one of my favorites, frankly, in working with our colleagues in IRI, and the support of Congress and yourself is extremely valuable. So thank you for that. Look, democracy has--is challenged in these ways. Forgive me. I am forgetting the question now. [Laughter.] Ms. Titus. Well, it was--it was rather convoluted. I just-- how do we help governments ensure their publics that democracy works to their advantage when they are facing a pandemic or an economic crisis or pressure from some less democratic powers perhaps in their region. Mr. Mitchell. Right. Well, look, the institution building, the foundations of the society institutions need to be strengthened. People need to see that their government is transparent. We have to encourage that kind of accountability and transparency so people can feel that they are working--the government is working for them, that something has changed. You know, you can change--you can have an election. You can have even a parliament. You can have institutions that kind of go through the motions. But the mindsets take much longer. But people need to see that the new system, the new processes, are actually responsive to them. There is no sort of single thing that you can do. But people need to feel that it is--that somehow it is different than the old autocratic ways. How we can help is we should be investing not just in the NDIs and IRIs in the political sphere. We have to be investing in the economic sphere, in the aid and assistance sphere. We have to, when we see the openings, not just walk away and say, well, they have an election or democracy. We have to invest in the economies and the businesses, try to encourage greater private sector engagement so that people can get jobs. Because, fundamentally, if people do not get jobs, if they do not see economic progress, people will say, this is nice but I am not taking care of my families and I will turn to somebody who will tell me easy solutions to these more difficult problems. There is no silver bullet on this. But I think the economic component to what we are talking about is extremely important. Ms. Titus. Thank you. Now, we often say in those meetings it is not just the elections that are important but what happens between the elections that really make the difference to build those institutions. Thank you very much. Anybody else care to---- Dr. Twining. Congresswoman, could I just say thanks for all your support on HDP and your leadership? You know, we need to make--we need to show that democracy works, and in Asia we should not forget the most successful, most prosperous societies in Asia are all rule of law countries with very strong institutions. From Japan to South Korea to across the board, down to Australia and over. Indonesia and Malaysia have their own democratic transitions here over the past few decades, that what China has to offer still is not proven. The premise from the Chinese Communist Party, that we can help you be prosperous but without political rights, was rejected by the richest people in China, which is the people of Hong Kong. Their per capita incomes are, like, five times higher than people in the rest of China. They do not accept the proposition that prosperity without rights is a deal. They want both, just like rising Asians have wanted both as their countries have grown economically and politically. So let us remember what actually delivers that prosperity, which is rule of law, property rights, strong institutions. Thank you. Ms. Titus. Thank you. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bera. Thank you. If the witnesses would indulge me, I would actually like to ask another question, and just, again, listening to some of the comments that came up. Maybe this one would be for Ambassador Mitchell and Dr. Twining. Again, listening to your assessment of the region and how we strengthen democracy, it does occur to me that multilateralism, working with our like-minded colleagues in countries like Korea, Japan, Australia, India, and taking a multilateral approach. So, I think a question for the two of you would be what tools and instruments already exist where we can take that approach, we take it in the geopolitical realm of maritime security and freedom of navigation but in democracy building, how we can leverage that? And then maybe for Ms. Ayres, I do have some concern that China uses economic coercion. You know, we could use the Sri Lankan port example, and is China using that economic coercion to undermine democratic principles in some of these smaller Asian nations or emerging democracies. So maybe, first, Dr. Mitchell--Ambassador Mitchell and Dr. Twining and then Dr. Ayres. Mr. Mitchell. Well, thank you for that question and, again, I completely agree that we need to be leveraging. It cannot just simply the U.S. and China, for instance. We have to galvanize the democratic world, whether it is in Asia or elsewhere, because these values work for all of us, and the more that we can demonstrate that China is--this is not some--not simply a great power competition but China versus the world or China versus its neighbors, it gives us extra leverage. Look, I think one way we have to do this, we have to coordinate better. We do not think about governance as a core component of American foreign policy in promoting this. We all agree that this is important. But, I have been promoting this notion of a fourth D in U.S. foreign policy because of the centrality of democratic governance to our international security. It is not just a nice thing. It is essential for our future stability and prosperity. When I say fourth D, that is, in addition to diplomacy, development, and defense to be democratic governance. And I think we should be talking to them about integrating it into everything that we do, and to our diplomacy, certainly. But also when we have investment--our foreign investment, we should be integrating democratic values, accountability, transparency, inclusion. All these things are not simply important for the governance of countries but governance of the international system of rule of law when it comes to maritime law. We want to have following international law. This is very important for our security. So getting Japan, getting India, getting Australia. I think they are already starting to get this. I, frankly, think the China factor is helping in that regard. People are seeing what the alternative as China is out there doing this. They are shaping these norms according to their interests and their image, and we need to be much more mindful with our allies in not just the military stuff, that security side, which I have a background at the Pentagon. I understand that stuff. I was at State Department. I understand diplomacy. But on the values, we tend to think those are nice things. Those are important things but they may not be as strategic for--as integrated into what we do. You know, I think we need to be talking to our partners in that way. Again, not simply vis-a-vis China but simply as a positive sum whereby doing this we make the world more healthy. You know, in health, education, all these other outcomes are much more likely to come out in positive--in a positive sum direction. Mr. Bera. Dr. Twining? Dr. Twining. Thanks, Congressman. I second what Ambassador Mitchell said. I would also just add, in a more workman like fashion a lot of our work these days is not about people like Derek and me flying to Asia and telling them what to do. They do not need to hear it from us. A lot of our work is about taking lessons learned in Asia and having Asians share those with other Asians. So as Derek mentioned earlier, NDI and IRI are both opening offices in Taiwan. Taiwan does not need a lot of help with its democracy. It's a very strong and robust democracy. But the Taiwanese have many lessons to offer other Asian countries about how, for instance, China runs disinformation campaigns in an effort to swing Taiwanese elections, to take the vote away from Taiwanese voters and put them in the hands of a foreign power. So we--to give another example, we have taken Indonesians to the Maldives after the Maldives had a transition from dictatorship to democracy to talk about how do you run a smart transition, how do you root out corruption from the old regime, et cetera. And there are a lot of lessons for Asians from within Asia because Asians have been fighting for these values for many, many years, irrespective and independent of the United States. But finally, I would just say our greatest allies and partners in the region are democracies, from Japan to India and many countries in between, and we should not be too shy about new mini-lateral and multi-lateral instruments--the Quad, for instance--U.S., Japan, Australia, India. The D-10 concept of kind of the G-7 plus the three big Asian democracies. We should not shy away from the idea that there is a role in geopolitics for working very closely, much more closely with our fellow democracies because we share, frankly, just a set of interests as well as a set of values. Thank you. Mr. Bera. Great. Thank you. Dr. Ayres, if you would take a quick moment on the economic coercion piece. Dr. Ayres. Yes. Thank you for asking that, Chairman Bera. That is a very important component here, and I think this is something we have to remember. The United States is not the only actor in this region. China is an increasingly important and influential actor as it has strengthened its ties with virtually every one of the countries in South Asia with the exception of India, where there is now a border standoff. That is a subject of another discussion, obviously. The economic coercion piece is part of this, as we have seen over and over again. All these cases of Belt and Road investments, sometimes the investments appear to be politically driven. In other cases, of course, it happens quickly. There is no environmental review. There is no governance review. There is none of the normal checks that would go into a development bank funding of an infrastructure project. And, of course, along with that economic investment and economic relationship with the smaller countries, one of the things I have been noticing is the way China has been setting up party-to-party kinds of relations and consultations. There was a video conference between the Chinese Communist Party and a multi-party group in Sri Lanka a few months ago. There was a consultation, what, late July or early August between the Nepal Communist Party and the Chinese Communist Party. So we are seeing a kind of direct engagement party-to-party as opposed to government-to-government, which is another development that I think we should all keep our eyes on. Thank you. Mr. Bera. Great. Thank you. Let me recognize the ranking member, Mr. Yoho, if he has any closing remarks or questions. Mr. Yoho. I do, and I appreciate it. And, Mr. Chairman, again you have done a great job. This is a very informative meeting. Dr. Ayres, you just brought up a point I wanted to bring up, and how China is not just going country to country. They are going with in that country to the different political parties. In fact, I was just reading last night that they are engaged in over 400 parties around the world in different countries. There was a great expose. It was 60 Minutes of Australia and the topic is why is China on the move in the South Pacific. I recommend that highly to everybody. And, as we know, the world is in a tectonic shift of world powers we have not seen since World War II, and we see China is the destabilizing factor. Of course, they blame us. But we see by their actions and their--what their intent is, and they are offering their form of government. And so it is easy for these weaker nations to bow down, be complacent, and be coerced by China's money. And with the DFC being out there to counter the BRI, where do you think we need to put the biggest emphasis on? And I think it was Dr. Twining, you were talking about we have to get in there and stay with promoting democracies and building those but we also have to have the ability to have the metrics in there and if that country does not meet it to pull that back. If you guys have comments on that, I would sure love to hear it. Dr. Twining. Alyssa, do you want to go first? Mr. Yoho. Dr. Ayres, go ahead. Dr. Ayres. I will take--thank you. Thank you. I do believe that the creation of the DFC is important. It is my understanding that it is not quite up and running 100 percent. So we have yet to really see what it can do as a potential alternate to these kinds of infrastructure underwritings. The other piece of the DFC is that it is in part designed to help crowd in private sector engagement and private sector investment, so that is another part of the story. I think we may need more time before we are able to see how effective this mechanism can be. I would note that we also have another very effective source of U.S. Government assistance that depends on, is premised on, good governance indicators and that is the Millennium Challenge Corporation. And I would just caution that in the South Asia region we have now seen two examples, in Nepal and in Sri Lanka, where the long process of engaging toward a Millennium Challenge compact agreement large investments, about $500 million in each case, toward transportation and power infrastructure. These have actually been held up in both of those countries because of political concerns. The Nepali government does not want to be part of the U.S.-Indo-Pacific strategy or feel that it is somehow being brought into the Indo-Pacific strategy. The Rajapaksa government is suspicious of the U.S. MCC. So I would just offer those two examples as cases where we have got a terrific tool but it has run into some challenges for political reasons in the countries concerned. Thank you. Mr. Yoho. Thank you. Let me see if Dr. Twining has any comments. Dr. Twining. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you, Congressman. You have been such a leader, including with your Cambodia Democracy Act and that is a reminder that we do have tools and leverage. The Europeans in Cambodia have suspended trading privileges that they had offered to Cambodia. Cambodia is very reliant on our GSP still. So some of these economic instruments matter in both a negative sense but also in a positive sense when countries do well. We should be working with them on new trade and financial arrangements. The Chinese do come in and do this in their own way and we should get back to that as a country. Mr. Yoho. I agree. Dr. Twining. Sir, you mentioned, do we withdraw support when a country backslides on democracy. I would argue that most of our support for countries should not go directly to their governments. It should go to independent civil society, free media, independent institutions, and not just go into a central coffer that disappears. In the past--we have gotten a lot smarter about this as a country, but in the past a lot of U.S. development assistance disappeared because we were giving it to friendly autocracies, in some cases, who did not have any means of accounting for it. So let us make sure that we invest in these democracy and governance instruments because we want to make sure that U.S. taxpayer money is being used well, and for all our investments in nutrition and health and infrastructure and nondemocracy areas. Without some accountability and transparency, we do not know where that money is going. So the democracy and governance investments that Congress makes actually helps us make sure that America gets more bang for the buck on all these other forms of assistance beyond democracy and good governance. Thank you. Mr. Yoho. Ambassador Mitchell, do you have any final comments? Mr. Mitchell. Well, let me just reaffirm something I said at the start and what you are suggesting, Congressman. We are in a competition of norms and values and standards now. Mr. Yoho. We sure are. Mr. Mitchell. And the Chinese are out there shaping things in their--according to their norms and they are out there fighting this very actively and very consciously, and we need to be similar. We need to be strategic, we need to be thoughtful, and we cannot fight it simply by fighting on their turf in their ways. We have an alternative model as suggested, and that transparent, accountable, inclusive--that we actually care to invest in countries, not extract from them, and that we look for partnerships. And it is that model that created the peace and stability of the last, as you say, 75 years. Mr. Yoho. Right. Mr. Mitchell. And it is now at risk and we need to be out there shaping these very actively. Mr. Yoho. Thank you. I appreciate everybody, and Mr. Chairman, another great hearing and the witnesses were awesome. Thank you. Mr. Bera. Great. Thank you, Ranking Member Yoho. I also want to thank our witnesses and the members who participated in this very important and interesting hybrid hearing. And with that, the hearing is adjourned. [Whereupon, at 11:50 a.m., the committee was adjourned.] APPENDIX [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] STATEMENT SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL LETTER [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]