[House Hearing, 116 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] OVERSIGHT OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION SERVICES ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION AND CITIZENSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION ---------- WEDNESDAY, JULY 29, 2020 ---------- Serial No. 116-85 ---------- Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 45-554 WASHINGTON : 2021 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY JERROLD NADLER, New York, Chair MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania, Vice-Chair ZOE LOFGREN, California DOUG COLLINS, Georgia, Ranking SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas Member STEVE COHEN, Tennessee F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, Jr., HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., Wisconsin Georgia STEVE CHABOT, Ohio THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas KAREN BASS, California JIM JORDAN, Ohio CEDRIC L. RICHMOND, Louisiana KEN BUCK, Colorado HAKEEM S. JEFFRIES, New York JOHN RATCLIFFE, Texas DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island MARTHA ROBY, Alabama ERIC SWALWELL, California MATT GAETZ, Florida TED LIEU, California MIKE JOHNSON, Louisiana JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland ANDY BIGGS, Arizona PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington TOM McCLINTOCK, California VAL BUTLER DEMINGS, Florida DEBBIE LESKO, Arizona J. LUIS CORREA, California GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas BEN CLINE, Virginia JOE NEGUSE, Colorado KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota LUCY McBATH, Georgia W. GREGORY STEUBE, Florida GREG STANTON, Arizona MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania DEBBIE MUCARSEL-POWELL, Florida VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas PERRY APELBAUM, Majority Staff Director & Chief of Staff CHRIS HIXON, Minority Staff Director ------ SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION AND CITIZENSHIP ZOE LOFGREN, California, Chair PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington, Vice-Chair J. LUIS CORREA, California KEN BUCK, Colorado, Ranking Member SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas ANDY BIGGS, Arizona JOE NEGUSE, Colorado TOM McCLINTOCK, California DEBBIE MUCARSEL-POWELL, Florida DEBBIE LESKO, Arizona VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas W. GREGORY STEUBE, Florida MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania DAVID SHAHOULIAN, Chief Counsel ANDREA LOVING, Minority Counsel C O N T E N T S ---------- Wednesday, July 29, 2020 Page OPENING STATEMENTS The Honorable Zoe Lofgren, Chair, a member of Congress from the State of California, Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship.................................................... 1 The Honorable Ken Buck, Ranking Member, a member of Congress from the State of Colorado, Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship.................................................... 3 WITNESSES Panel 1 Joseph Edlow, Deputy Director for Policy, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Oral Testimony................................................. 4 Prepared Statement............................................. 7 Panel 2 Sharvari Dalal-Dheini, American Immigration Lawyers Association Oral Testimony................................................. 71 Prepared Statement............................................. 74 Michael Knowles, President, American Federation of Government Employees, Local 1924 AFL-CIO Oral Testimony................................................. 86 Prepared Statement............................................. 88 Doug Rand, Senior Fellow, Director, Technology and Innovation Initiative, Federation of American Scientists Oral Testimony................................................. 93 Prepared Statement............................................. 95 Supplemental Statement......................................... 238 Jessica Vaughan, Director of Policy Studies, Center for Immigration Studies, and Instructor for Senior Law Enforcement Officers, Northwestern University Center for Public Safety, Illinois Oral Testimony................................................. 257 Prepared Statement............................................. 259 LETTER, MATERIAL, ARTICLES SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD A memo for the record ``Remote Naturalization Oaths are Legally Permissible,'' by Ethan Nasr and Peggy Gleason, submitted by the Honorable J. Luis Correa, a member of Congress from the State of California, Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship.................................................... 24 Statement for the Record by Pamela Roberts, Citizenship and Family Unification Staff Attorney, HIAS Pennsylvania, submitted by the Honorable Mary Gay Scanlon, a member of Congress from the State of Pennsylvania, Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship.................................................... 46 Statement for the Record by American Immigration Council, submitted by the Honorable Mary Gay Scanlon, a member of Congress from the State of Pennsylvania, Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship.................................... 52 Statements for the Record submitted the Honorable Zoe Lofgren, Chair, a member of Congress from the State of California, Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship 1. American Friends Service Committee....................... 278 2. Statement for the Record from American Immigration Council.................................................... 281 3. Statement for the Record from Asian Americans Advancing Justice (AAJC)............................................. 288 4. Statement for the Record from Central American Resource Center of San Francisco (CARECEN SF)....................... 295 5. Statement for the Record from Church World Service....... 296 6. Statement for the Record from Cities for Action.......... 297 7. Statement for the Record from Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights (CHIRLA).................................. 299 8. Article for the record ``How the Trump Administration's Xenophobic Ideology Created a Financial Crisis at USCIS,'' by Ur Mendoza Jaddou, Director, DHS Watch.................. 302 9. Statement for the Record from Immigration Legal Resource Center (ILRC).............................................. 314 10. Statement for the Record from Invest in the USA (IIUSA).. 320 11. Statement for the Record from Kids in Need of Defense (KIND)..................................................... 336 12. Statement for the Record from Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service............................................ 339 13. Statement for the Record from National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials (NALEO)............. 346 14. Statement for the Record from National Immigration Law Center..................................................... 351 15. Statement for the Record from National Partnership for New Americans.............................................. 355 16. Statement for the Record from President's Alliance on Higher Education and Immigration........................... 362 17. Statement for the Record from Yael Schacher, Senior U.S. Advocate, Refugees International........................... 366 18. Statement for the Record from Sanaa Abrar, Advocacy Director, United We Dream.................................. 369 19. Statement for the Record from Most Reverend Mario E. Dorsonville, Auxiliary Bishop of Washington, U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops............................. 377 20. Statement for the Record from Marilyn Levy, Staff Attorney, Wind of the Spirit Immigrant Resource Center..... 387 APPENDIX Letter for the Record to Honorable Chad F. Wolf, Acting Secretary, and Joseph Edlow, Deputy Director for Policy, from Patrick Leahy, Vice Chairman, and Jon Tester, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Homeland Security, submitted by the Honorable Sylvia R. Garcia, a member of Congress from the State of Texas, Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship.................... 392 Letter for the Record to the Honorable Speaker Pelosi, Leader Schumer, Leader McConnell, and Leader McCarthy submitted by the Honorable Sylvia R. Garcia, a member of Congress from the State of Texas, Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship.......... 394 Letter for the Record to Honorable Chad F. Wolf, Acting Secretary, submitted by the Honorable Sylvia R. Garcia, a member of Congress from the State of Texas, Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship.................................... 394 Statement for the Record from HJC Immigration and Citizenship Subcommittee, submitted by the Honorable Sylvia R. Garcia, a member of Congress from the State of Texas, Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship.................................... 406 Statement for the record ``Protecting American Workers Through a Stable and Reliable Seasonal Workforce'' from H-2B Workforce Coalition, submitted by the Honorable Steve Chabot, a member of Congress from the State of Ohio, Committee on the Judiciary.... 407 Statement for the Record from The American Association of Physicists in Medicine (AAPM).................................. 408 Statement for the Record from Bart Klein, Attorney at Law........ 411 Item for the record In the United States District Court for the Western District of Washington by Bart Klein................... 413 Statement for the Record from Marketa Lindt, President, American Immigration Lawyers Association................................ 466 Statement for the Record from Miriam Feldblum, Executive Director, Presidents' Alliance on Higher Education and Immigration.................................................... 478 OVERSIGHT OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION SERVICES ---------- Wednesday, July 29, 2020 House of Representatives Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship Committee on the Judiciary Washington, DC The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 9:30 a.m., in Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Zoe Lofgren [chairman of the subcommittee] presiding. Present: Representatives Lofgren, Jayapal, Correa, Garcia, Neguse, Mucarsel-Powell, Escobar, Jackson Lee, Scanlon, Buck, Biggs, McClintock, Lesko, and Steube. Staff Present: Madeline Strasser, Chief Clerk; Moh Sharma, Member Services and Outreach Advisor; Anthony Valdez, Staff Assistant; John Williams, Parliamentarian; Betsy Lawrence, Counsel; David Shahoulian, Chief Counsel; Ami Shah, Counsel; Alex Wang, Fellow; Andrea Loving, Minority Chief Counsel for Immigration; and Kyle Smithwick, Minority Counsel. Ms. Lofgren. The Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship will now come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess of the Subcommittee at any time. We welcome everyone to this morning's hearing on oversight of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. Before we begin, I'd like to remind Members again that we have established an email address and distribution list that's dedicated to circulating exhibits, motions, or other written material that Members might want to offer as part of our hearing today. If Members would like to submit materials, please send them to the email address that has been previously distributed to member offices, and we will circulate the materials to Members and staff as quickly as we can. I would also remind all Members that guidance from the Office of Attending Physician states that face coverings are required for all meetings in an enclosed space, such as the Subcommittee hearings, and it's expected that individuals in the room will wear a mask except when they are speaking. I would now recognize myself for an opening statement. So, today's hearing, the oversight of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, comes at a critical time. Since January of 2017, we have watched this Administration strip away USCIS' service-oriented mission and eradicate commonsense policies that improve agency efficiency. Instead, the Administration has implemented countless new policies that add bureaucratic red tape, increase costs, and restrict and reduce immigration channels. As is often the case today, the COVID-19 pandemic has exposed this mismanagement. Now, absent funding from Congress, 13,400 USCIS employees face the threat of furlough just 1 month from now. Agency officials have proposed repaying appropriated funds by imposing an additional 10 percent surcharge on all requests for immigration benefits. The Agency blames its financial crisis on reduced filings during the COVID pandemic. While this reduction in filings contributed to the crisis, USCIS was well on its way to insolvency long before the COVID-19 hit our shores. Last year, this Subcommittee held a hearing to examine how restrictive policy and procedural changes led to record high case backlogs and processing delays. Despite large staff increases and decreases in immigration filings over the past 2 years, the backlog has only grown larger. The case backlog now stands at a staggering 2.5 million cases. USCIS frequently points to the growing case backlog as justification to hire additional adjudicators. Since 2016, the Agency has added about 5,000 new employees while hiking fees to pay for the added salary cost. We observed this only 8 months ago when USCIS proposed an additional 21-percent fee increase, quote, to fund additional staff and, quote, perform more national security betting. Yet, in the same role, USCIS acknowledges that the additional staff it plans to hire will not measurably improve processing times. Now, USCIS has proposed a 10-percent surcharge on top of the 21-percent surcharge proposed earlier to repay appropriated funds. The Agency is forcing customers to not only shoulder the cost of misguided management and policy choices but to pay even more for slower services. This really is not acceptable. Additionally, even as USCIS cites the drop in filings as the cause of its troubles, the Administration continues to take actions to restrict immigration further driving USCIS revenues into the ground. For example, on June 18, 2020, the Supreme Court ruled that the Administration's rescission of DACA was unlawful. That means the DACA program that existed before the President's unlawful action was taken was reinstated. Just yesterday, DHS issued a new memorandum announcing that it is reconsidering the DACA program and shortening the permissible renewal period. DHS also instructed USCIS to reject all initial DACA applications. While the future of DACA remains uncertain, one thing is clear: By holding new DACA applications at processing facilities for at least the week prior to issuance of this new memo, USCIS was directly violating the Supreme Court's judgment. Similarly, high demand for immigrant visas, it now seems that thousands of visas will go unused this year. Chair Nadler and I first raised this issue with the Administration in May, but we receive no response. In fact, instead of advancing priority dates to increase adjustment of status filings, the Administration appears to have stifled priority date movement to prevent such filings. Indeed, only recently, after we sent a second letter did we see more movement in priority dates. Unfortunately, given how late it is in the fiscal year, this is likely too little too late, but perhaps that was the point. I look forward to hearing from our first witness, Mr. Edlow, deputy director for policy at USCIS, on these and other issues. I also look forward to hearing from the witnesses on our second panel so that we can understand how agency mismanagement and the threat of furloughs has impacted immigrant communities, U.S. businesses, and USCIS employees. When you consider all that the Administration has done to restrict legal immigration over the past 3 and a half years, it's no wonder that USCIS now stands before us hat in hand asking for money to maintain current operations. The Trump Administration has been characterized by incompetence, from the catastrophic response to COVID-19 to mismanagement of this agency. However, I hope we can all agree that no good purpose will be served if we allow the immigration system to grind to a halt. It's my hope that today's hearing will further current negotiations by helping us to better understand how we got to where we are, where we are today, and that we can find a solution that all of us can embrace. It's now my pleasure to recognize the Ranking Member of the subcommittee, Mr. Buck from Colorado, for his opening statement. Mr. Buck. Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, let me tell you, it is a pleasure to be back in the Judiciary Committee hearing room. It feels like a home that I haven't visited for a while, and it's just nice to get back to a little sense of normality. Thank you for holding this hearing to conduct oversight of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. This Subcommittee has an important oversight responsibility. USCIS has continued its important work in the face of COVID-19, the COVID-19 pandemic, and the resulting office closures and budget shortfalls the Agency has experienced. In fact, the Agency has gone out of its way to ease the process for benefit applicants wherever possible. Since March, the Agency has conducted over 106,500 naturalization ceremonies, approved over 87,600 applications for adjustment of status, and ensured our agricultural system remains competitive by allowing more than 130,500 H-2A employees to enter the country. While delays remain, these numbers show that USCIS takes its mission seriously. The Agency does face large challenges going forward, including the previously mentioned $1.2 billion budget shortfall, the potential need to furlough up to 75 percent of the Agency's workforce, and the residual delays in benefit adjudication. However, I have confidence the Agency will continue administering our Nation's immigration laws fairly and consistently no matter the circumstances. Mr. Edlow, thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to come today to answer important questions about the work you are doing at USCIS. I look forward to hearing the challenges and successes of USCIS as well as any ways in which we in Congress can be helpful to the Agency's mission. I thank the chair and yield back. Ms. Lofgren. Thank you, Mr. Buck. I would now like to introduce our first witness. Joseph Edlow joined the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services in July 2019, first serving as chief counsel for the Agency before transitioning to his current role as deputy director for policy in February of this year. Prior to this, he served as Deputy Assistant Attorney General in the Office of Legal Policy at the Department of Justice and Assistant Chief Counsel at the Baltimore field office of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Mr. Edlow also worked for 3 years in the House of Representatives, first in the office of our former colleague Raul Labrador, and then as counsel for this very subcommittee. We welcome him back to the Subcommittee today and look forward to his testimony. Mr. Edlow, if you would please rise, I will begin by swearing you in. Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief so help you God? Mr. Edlow. I do. Ms. Lofgren. Let the record show the witness answered in the affirmative. Thank you. Please be seated. Please note that your written statement will be entered into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, I ask that you try to summarize your testimony in 5 minutes, and to help you stay within that time there's a timing light on your table. When the light switches from green to yellow you have 1 minute to sum up, and when the light turns red, it means your 5 minutes have expired and we'd ask you to try and stop at that point. So, Mr. Edlow, you may begin. STATEMENT OF JOSEPH EDLOW Mr. Edlow. Thank you. Chair Lofgren, Ranking Member Buck, and distinguished Members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. USCIS' mission is to safeguard the integrity and promise of the Nation's lawful immigration system by efficiently and fairly adjudicating requests for immigration benefits while protecting Americans, securing the homeland, and honoring our values. I am here today on behalf of the nearly 20,000 dedicated and hardworking professionals of USCIS. It is my honor to lead them and the day-to-day operations of this agency. These are difficult times for our Nation and for USCIS. The pandemic has affected virtually all aspects of American life and has had a dramatic effect on USCIS operations and revenue. Despite our best efforts, we have been forced to issue furlough notices to nearly 70 percent of our employees. Without funding from Congress, we will have no choice but to proceed with large-scale furloughs on August 30th. As you know, USCIS is unique among Federal agencies. We are 97 percent fee funded. The fees we collect for certain petitions and applications pay for our operations, including the salaries of our workforce. Those fees also cover the cost of adjudicating many immigration requests and benefits for which we do not currently collect a fee, such as asylum, refugee status, humanitarian visas, deferred action, and satisfactory departure. Unlike an appropriated agency, a fee-funded agency must have sufficient funding remaining on September 30th to carry over on October 1st to begin and sustain operations for the new fiscal year. The pandemic has virtually eliminated this necessary carryover funding. Without funds from Congress or a large-scale furlough, USCIS will run out of money in early fiscal year 2021. We have done what we can to mitigate this crisis by reducing spending, instituting a hiring freeze, and identifying more than $100 million of unliquidated obligations between April and June. We began the year working to adjust agency spending as we had already identified that our current fee schedule was insufficient to recover estimated costs this fiscal year. I have spoken to many of you and your staffs about our fiscal crisis and our funding proposal, which will ensure that USCIS continues operations throughout this fiscal year and start fiscal year 2021 on strong financial footing. Most important to me are the men and women of USCIS who continue to successfully perform our agency's critical mission under such uncertain circumstances in these unprecedented times. Facing a pandemic, USCIS employees engaged innovative strategies to continue limited naturalization ceremonies to prevent the spread of COVID-19. While our slowdown did delay taking the oath for some, I am proud to report that all 110,000 of those pending oaths will be completed by the end of this week. This is merely a snapshot of the spectacular work done by the talented and dedicated USCIS workforce. Starting in June, we safely and effectively reopened most USCIS offices while protecting applicant and employee safety during the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. At field offices, we implemented a variety of measures, such as providing hand sanitizer at entry points, requiring facial coverings, installing physical barriers and social distancing markings. At asylum offices, USCIS began conducting video facilitated asylum interviews using available technology, including mobile devices provided by USCIS to ensure that the asylum officer, applicant, interpreter, and representative can fully and safely participate in the interview while maintaining social distancing. As our offices resume in-person services, USCIS looks to pick up where we left off. Last year, USCIS naturalized 834,000 new U.S. citizens, an 11-year high. The Agency completed over 103,000 credible fear claims, a record high and more than 113 percent increase since 2015, as well as approximately 79,000 affirmative asylum applications. The dedication and commitment of the USCIS workforce is inspiring, even as the financial situation and the specter of large-scale furloughs have been the toughest obstacle we have faced. I look forward in doing whatever it takes in working with Congress to resolve this issue. Lastly, I would like to acknowledge the productive conversation I have had with witnesses set to appear on the second panel later this morning. I believe we share a strong commitment to the USCIS workforce and remain confident that we can work together to find a resolution. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to answering any questions you may have. [The statement of Mr. Edlow follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Ms. Lofgren. Thank you, Mr. Edlow. This is the time when Members of the Subcommittee may ask questions of our witness for 5 minutes each, and I will begin. As you're aware, except for uncapped categories, such as immediate relatives, our immigration law provides a certain number of employment and family-based immigrant visas each fiscal year. There are millions of people who have been waiting for decades until a visa is available to them. According to recent reports, an estimated 5 million individuals with approved immigrant visa petitions are waiting in the immigrant visa backlog. Mr. Edlow, do you agree that the Immigration and Nationality Act requires these visas to be issued if there is enough demand? Mr. Edlow. Congresswoman, I agree that we have a duty to get as close to the immigrant visa caps that Congress has set per year as we possibly can, and we are making progress this year to getting there. Obviously, with the in-person services closed for a number of months, including at application support centers, we have not been able to move as many as we would have liked to through the process. That said, as of July 16th, we have already allocated 86.8 percent of the fiscal year annual limit for employment-based preference categories. So, we are moving. That is over 106,689 visas that have been allocated, and of that, most of that was USCIS. Ms. Lofgren. As you know, Mr. Edlow, several weeks ago, we were advised by DHS officials that, as of April 29th, approximately 126,000 family-based visas and nearly 75,000 employments-based visas were available. Mr. Nadler and I had written about this, and in June, Mr. Nadler and I sent a follow-up letter to the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security expressing our concern that the departments were not faithfully complying with the law to ensure full use of statutorily authorized immigrant visa numbers for fiscal year 2020 and 2021. We copied you on the letter. We asked for a response to this letter. We asked for a staff-level briefing by July 6th, but to date neither has been provided. Now, why is that? Mr. Edlow. Congresswoman, I apologize. My understanding was that you had received a response on that letter. It was not drafted by me, but I have seen that response. If you have not gotten that, I will ensure that you and Chair Nadler get that immediately. Additionally, we are happy at USCIS to provide you a briefing with our role with regard to analyzing and determining how to move the visa bulletin forward and how we work with the Department of State on that. As to the Department of State's role, I would defer to them, of course. I will check in on that. Congresswoman, I know that that letter has been drafted. Ms. Lofgren. Well, let me just tell you, I understand from our staff that we have not received a response, so we'll look forward to that. Due to the suspension of consular services and various residential proclamations, overseas demand for immigrant visas has certainly decreased in recent months, but it's well documented there's a great deal of demand for such visas from persons already legally in the United States. Visa availability, as reflected in the visa bulletin, is set by the Department of State in consultation with USCIS. Do you or other political appointees play a role in that consultation process? Mr. Edlow. Congresswoman, that consultation process is, as you said, completed by the Department of State with consultation from USCIS. I have been involved in discussions on that occasionally. By and large, month in and month out, I am not typically involved in those conversations. In April, I was involved, and I believe the letter that we were supposed to have sent back to you would have addressed that and would have identified that. Certainly, as we were trying to figure out what our next steps were with being able to process under our limitations from the pandemic, we did want to be careful as to moving that number forward, but then that number has significantly moved forward in the months following. Our letter explains that. Ms. Lofgren. Mr. Edlow, let me just be frank. Members of my staff have received information from USCIS employees indicating that DHS political leadership overruled career officials in setting the priority dates for the July visa bulletin. Did you have a role in that? Mr. Edlow. Congresswoman, I have no knowledge of that at all. Ms. Lofgren. Okay. Mr. Edlow. I was not involved in setting the July visa bulletin at all. Ms. Lofgren. Then it's political interference elsewhere, and we will try to follow up with that. I'm nearing the end of my time. I'd like to conclude by saying that, while I understand USCIS had to temporarily suspend in-person services and close field offices earlier this year, that doesn't excuse the Administration from complying with its congressional mandate to ensure full use of immigrant visa numbers. In addition, there are many ways to move cases through the system without person-to-person contact, including interview waivers in clearly approvable cases, although I understand the Agency suspended processing of those cases as well. In my final minute, I would just like to raise the issue of the Supreme Court decision--other Members may want to talk later--about DACA. So, the Supreme Court ruled that what the Administration did was unlawful. In putting aside yesterday's reconsidering and prohibiting new applications, the Department was clearly in violation of the Supreme Court decision for at least a week and maybe currently. I would just like to note how distressing it is that at the hearing, which took place 40 days after the Supreme Court's decision was issued, DOJ lawyers stated that the USCIS had not found the time or resources to change their website. We expect compliance with the law. We certainly expect compliance with Supreme Court decisions. I don't know whether it was your decision or Mr. Wolf's or Mr. Cuccinelli's or the White House, but compliance with that decision was disappointing at best. I see that my time is expired. So, I will now turn to Mr. Buck for his 5 minutes of questioning. Mr. Buck. I thank the chair. Because of the unique situation, Madam Chair, I'm going to recognize the Congresswoman from Arizona, Ms. Lesko, for her time, and I appreciate the chair's indulgence. Ms. Lofgren. Sure. Ms. Lesko. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Edlow, for being here today. I have a couple of questions actually about DACA. I believe that when President Obama originally did the executive order that gave DACA recipients what they get today, it was unconstitutional because it wasn't done through Congress. Of course, we had the recent Supreme Court ruling, which, quite frankly, I didn't agree with that, but that being it, I understand that currently under DACA you have to have continuously resided in the United States from June 15, 2007. We're now in 2020. So, does that mean that the youngest person in DACA would be about 13 years old that would apply new, new applications, is my understanding? Mr. Edlow. For applications when they were accepted, yes, if the person had been here, I guess, depending on when they were born, yes. They would've had to have been here in 2007, so yes. Ms. Lesko. Okay. So, I just am trying to understand, because I'm not in your field so I don't understand, why would somebody that is 13 years old not have applied for DACA yet? Like why--because the changes were for new applicants, right? Wasn't that the change that was done yesterday by the Trump Administration, new applications were put on pause? Mr. Edlow. Well, let me back up a little bit and explain. Ms. Lesko. Sure. Mr. Edlow. So, back in 2017, through Acting Secretary Duke, the now--that memo has now been rescinded by Acting Secretary Wolf's memo, but Secretary--Acting Secretary Duke rescinded DACA, and in doing so, there was litigation that ensued. Due to that litigation, the Department and the government was enjoined from ending the program with regard to renewals. So, we kept processing renewal applications at that point. However, we did stop all new applications. So, new applications have not been accepted since--I don't--I apologize. I don't remember the date off the top of my head but sometime in 2017 or 2018, and that's been the status quo since then, and then until now when we have the Supreme Court that ultimately found that the program could be rescinded. There was no question about that, about the legality of rescinding it; it was the manner in which Acting Secretary Duke rescinded it. Accordingly, what we took--what we did at that point was begun to hold new applications while we continued to talk with our attorneys, both within the Department as well as with the Department of Justice, to figure out what the next steps would be. But there has not been an opportunity to apply for an initial DACA--to have that process since 2017, 2018. Ms. Lesko. Thank you. That makes sense to me. Thank you for explaining it to me. Can we pivot now to the backlog cases? I think in the opening statement Madam Chair had said that you're really far behind in processing, that the Trump Administration has done a terrible job. I'm paraphrasing, something to that effect. Can you kind of respond to that? Because I have a bunch of information here that actually you've done a lot of processing in different fields. Would you like to respond? Mr. Edlow. I would be happy to. Thank you, Congresswoman. So, in the queue of cases that are outside normal processing times, which is what is typically referred to as the, quote, ``backlog'' unquote, we do have right now about 2.5 million. We also have another 2.5 million cases that are in processing times. There are the third group of cases that are cases that are pending but are outside of USCIS' ability to control. For example, we have request for evidence out or we're waiting for something from somebody else. So, we are absolutely making progress and doing whatever we can to add efficiencies into the system and using new methods of e-filing and e-processing to bring down the time of adjudication. Now, expediency is absolutely critical. I'm not saying it's not. We have to balance that with making sure that we are doing a fulsome adjudication and properly ensuring that the integrity of the system is met. We cannot allow speed to be the enemy of making sure that the applications are approvable. So, I support the career men and women of my agency who have done a phenomenal job of ensuring that their adjudications are within the law, they're within the scope, and I'm very impressed with the work that I've seen since I've taken over at the helm of USCIS. Ms. Lofgren. The gentlelady's time has expired. So, let's turn now to the gentlelady from Washington, Ms. Jayapal. Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Edlow, thank you for being here. Since its inception, the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program has benefited over 825,000 individuals. That is 825,000 people who have stepped out of the shadows and reached new academic and professional heights and contributed tremendously to our country. DACA also enjoys broad support among the American public, with 66 percent of American voters supporting the program. Mr. Edlow, I would like to discuss the recent Supreme Court decision describing or declaring the Administration's rescission of DACA unlawful. Putting aside yesterday's DHS memo, quote, reconsidering the DACA program, do you agree with the Supreme Court's ruling that the Administration's rescission of DACA was arbitrary and capricious? Yes or no. Mr. Edlow. I have said I don't agree with it. Ms. Jayapal. Okay. Based on that ruling, the Administration should have immediately returned the program to its original form, which includes processing new DACA applications, which your agency did not do. In fact, by not processing new DACA applications prior to the new memo, USCIS was in direct violation of the Supreme Court. Mr. Edlow, I understand you don't agree with the Supreme Court's decision, but do you believe compliance with the Supreme Court is a choice? Mr. Edlow. Congresswoman, Supreme Court compliance is not a choice; however, the mandate did not enter into last week. Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Edlow. Mr. Edlow, I didn't ask you anything other than whether you think that compliance is a choice, and you said, no, it's not a choice. Did you consult with DHS leadership or the White House on yesterday's memo? Mr. Edlow. I'm not going to get into internal conversations that I've got into about the memo. Ms. Jayapal. You're testifying before the Judiciary Committee, the Immigration Subcommittee. Did you consult with DHS leadership or the White House on yesterday's memo? I'm not asking you for details of it. I'm asking you if you consulted. Mr. Edlow. Congresswoman, the memo was not issued by me. I would defer to Acting Secretary Wolf. Ms. Jayapal. Did you consult or not? It seems a fairly simple question. It was not a gotcha question. Did you consult or not? Mr. Edlow. I've had conversations, but I've not consulted on the memo. Ms. Jayapal. Thank you. So, that would be a yes. So, then did USCIS not accept new DACA applications due to knowledge that this memorandum was to be issued? Mr. Edlow. Congresswoman, in conversations with my lawyers and with the Department of Justice following the Supreme Court, we were determining what the next steps were going to be. We immediately stopped rejecting new applications. We were holding them, so we had them ready to go should this decision have come out and the Acting Secretary--if the Acting Secretary had directed us to accept. We were aware that there was additional litigation, and we were taking the steps that we needed to. Ms. Jayapal. Thank you. I think that's sufficient. Let me switch gears to your website. Last week, over a month after the Supreme Court's ruling, 1 month after the Supreme Court's ruling, Department of Justice lawyers representing USCIS in a hearing admitted to inaccuracies regarding new DACA applications on the website. DOJ lawyers stated that USCIS had, quote, ``not found the time or resources to change their website to reflect the new status of DACA applications.'' Is that accurate? Mr. Edlow. I can't speak to the accuracy of that. Ms. Jayapal. You're the deputy director of the Agency, and you can't tell me whether what the DOJ said about your agency not having the time or resources to change their website is accurate? Mr. Edlow. Well, as far as having the resources, I just don't know--I need to consult with my IT people. Ms. Jayapal. You're the deputy director of the Agency and you can't tell me whether your agency had the resources in time to change the website. The following day, after the Supreme Court's decision, the website published a statement claiming that the decision had, quote, ``no basis in law,'' on your website. Then yesterday when the new DACA memo was issued, there was a banner on the website within minutes. Can you explain to me, Mr. Edlow, how there was plenty of, quote, ``time and resources to post a statement opposing the Supreme Court decision but not to update the website to comply with its order after more than 1 month''? Mr. Edlow. Again, Congresswoman, the order did not take effect until the mandate issued. We at that point were consulting with Department of Justice and with our attorneys-- Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Edlow, the Supreme Court you do not get to decide whether you're going to comply with the Supreme Court order. You have had a month since the Supreme Court's decision to change your processing applications and make sure you comply with that order. You have not done that. It is your job to comply with the Supreme Court. This Administration does not get to decide which orders it complies with or not. It does not get to decide that it can put up a statement that says that the Supreme Court decision was-- that you don't agree with it, but you don't actually comply. There are an estimated 300,000 young people waiting for you to do your job and to allow new applications to this program. The Supreme Court rightly upheld this program. Your agency needs to do the same. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back. Ms. Lofgren. The gentlelady's time is expired. I would turn now to the Ranking Member, Mr. Buck. Mr. Buck. I thank the chair. I recognize the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Biggs. Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Ranking Member Mr. Buck. I appreciate it--and Madam Chair. There has been some misconception here. The Supreme Court decision in the case of Department of Homeland Security v. Regents of University of California did not say that the DACA program was necessarily legal. What they said is that the Administration failed to comply with the APA in its decision to revoke or rescind their determination that the DACA program was instituted illegally. That is a completely different animal than what we've heard from our colleagues across the aisle so far today. The reality is they--and this gets to the point that you've been making, Mr. Edlow, about they made their decision. Their mandate wasn't effective until last week, and in reality, the Administration could pursue its course based on the decision of the U.S. Supreme Court to actually expand on their memo for the reasons why and providing rationale for why they chose to rescind the DACA program. Isn't that true, Mr. Edlow? Mr. Edlow. That is, yes. Mr. Biggs. In 2017, USCIS said there was 689,800 people still in DACA, in the DACA program. How many are there today, if you know? Mr. Edlow. Yeah, Congressman, it's approximately 826,000. Mr. Biggs. Okay. According to press reports, the Obama/ Biden Administration accepted documents such as Xbox Live receipts from DACA applicants as evidence to prove the requisite elements of DACA, such as physical presence. Do you agree that an Xbox Live receipt is subject to fraud and should not be used to prove DACA requirements? Mr. Edlow. I absolutely agree. I was appalled when I heard that was accepted as evidence of physical presence or anything else. Mr. Biggs. Are you familiar with a piece listing a series of folks, Ms. Yadel Alvarez-Chio, who was a DACA recipient who was smuggling illegal aliens into the country, Jose Yepez-Vega doing the same, Rafael Martinez Alvarez doing the same, Guadalupe Perez-Avila doing the same, are you aware of some of those cases? What happens to those people who are using their DACA status to violate U.S. law and are doing things such as smuggling illegal aliens into the country? Mr. Edlow. Yes. Thank you, Congressman. I can't say that I'm familiar with those specific examples, but in general, if we determine or if there is a determination made that the individual is using that status or is committing crimes and has been convicted, that case would obviously be referred to Homeland Security investigations for appropriate prosecution and then termination of the DACA program. Mr. Biggs. Do you know, Mr. Edlow, how many folks have been referred to DHS for investigation regarding crimes committed in the U.S.? Mr. Edlow. Congressman, we've put out several reports on that. I would need to get back to you on the exact figure. Mr. Biggs. If you would do that. Mr. Edlow. Absolutely, sir. Mr. Biggs. One of the things that you're here for today is obviously oversight, but in particular, is your concerns--I mean, the chairwoman mentioned the furloughs that are pending. Tell us about that and the finances to try to keep people from being furloughed so you can fulfill your duties and how long it will take to pay that money back? Mr. Edlow. Thank you, Congressman. Yeah, we are in a tremendous budget shortfall at this point. Prior to COVID, we were operating at a deficit. Frankly, we've been operating at a deficit for the last several years, but we were no way in a budget shortfall that was going to cut into our mission or potentially bring about furloughs. This was the result of COVID, and we have charts that I believe we provided to the Committee to show the significant dip in our receipts during this year, something that we're still trying to recover from. We have asked for approximately $570 million to finish out this fiscal year and $650 million or so to begin the next fiscal year. As I mentioned in my opening, since we are fee funded largely, we need carryover. We don't have surplus. We have carryover. So, when the reports came out the other day that if we didn't furlough employees, we would still have some degree of surplus to roll over into the next year, that's just not accurate. Surplus, by definition, is something that would be unobligated and likely have to be returned to the Treasury. In our case, it would be carryover that would be used for obligated funds and expenses. We need to make sure that we're able to address this in a way that I can take care of my-- Ms. Lofgren. The gentleman's time is expired. We'll turn now to the gentleman from California, Mr. Correa. Mr. Correa. Thank you, Madam Chair, for holding this most important hearing. Mr. Edlow, thank you very much for being here today. My district is home to the largest number of Dreamers in the country. I've got to tell you, they're scared. My daughter has a lot of friends that are Dreamers. They come to my house, and they ask, ``What can we do? We're scared.'' They have a good reason to be scared. They're essentially political pinatas. Obama created the program. Trump Administration created the program. United States Supreme Court said you didn't terminate the program correctly. Go back and do it again. Then just a few weeks ago President Trump said, I am going to provide Dreamers with a pathway to citizenship. We're waiting for language so we can Act on that piece of legislation. Then, yesterday, we have a new memo with new instructions. So, you can understand that these individuals, that, by definition, to be a DACA recipient, you have to follow the law, gainfully employed or be going to school. A lot of these Dreamers are our front liners in the fight against COVID. They're nurses, healthcare workers. You know what? They're also growing our crops and harvesting our crops and working at poultry plants. They're the folks that are keeping us fed while this country burns with COVID-19. We also have some that have made the ultimate sacrifice defending this country. We have soldiers that are fighting for this country. Yet, they're in limbo right now. So, I want to ask you, that memo, which was the latest twist and turn in the life of these individuals, almost a million, are you accepting new DACA applications? Mr. Edlow. Accepting new--no, we are not accepting new DACA applications. Mr. Correa. Are you accepting new advanced parole applications? Mr. Edlow. No, we are not, sir. Mr. Correa. By what authority? Mr. Edlow. Congressman, we've got a memo and the memo speaks for itself from Acting Secretary Wolf, and we will be putting out additional guidance. I will be putting out additional guidance in the coming days as to exactly how we are going to be responding to every type of application and request that comes in on that. Sir, if I can turn briefly to the limbo that you referred to and just change it slightly. Mr. Correa. Yes. Mr. Edlow. I understand where you're coming from, but I also want to address the fact that our employees are also in limbo. I know you have--we've spoken about this. You have a significant number of employees in your district who are also in limbo. Mr. Correa. Many employees in my district. Mr. Edlow. That is why I do want to make it as clear as possible that my primary goal here is to impress upon you the important work that my staff is doing, that our workforce is doing, and that I really need to make sure-- Mr. Correa. Sir, I have limited time. Mr. Edlow. Yeah. Mr. Correa. Let me tell you right now, I know many of those workers that work for you, they're my constituents. I've told them we're trying to come up with a solution, and that's part of the message here today, which is how do we get back on track to make sure that you process those applications in a timely manner, which leads me to my next question, which is agency remote naturalization votes. How are we doing with that right now? Mr. Edlow. Remote naturalization is not something that we are presently considering and let me explain what's going on there. Mr. Correa. Please. You've got a minute and a half, so-- Mr. Edlow. I'll try to be as brief as possible, sir. During the pandemic, when we had to cancel so many pending oath ceremonies, we were concerned about how we were going to get through that. Since we've reopened, we've been able to get through that entire backlog. Mr. Correa. So, do you believe you'll be moving in that direction? I sent you a letter Saturday-- Mr. Edlow. No. Mr. Correa. --Democrats and Republicans urging you to move in that direction. Mr. Edlow. I understand, sir. Mr. Correa. Is your position you don't have the legal authority to do so? Mr. Edlow. I don't think we have the legal authority. I also am concerned about the operational implementation of it with regard to getting people their naturalization certificates, ensuring that people are in the-- Mr. Correa. I've got 45 seconds. Mr. Edlow. Yeah. Mr. Correa. So, I'd like to work with you, Mr. Edlow, on figuring out the operational aspect of remote naturalization. I've got a memo here that I'm going to ask for unanimous consent to submit for the record that says you do have the legal authority. The HEROES Act has H.R. 6800--within it that essentially talks about clarifying and urging you to move ahead with remote naturalization. Ms. Lofgren. Without objection. [The information follows:] MR. CORREA FOR THE RECORD ======================================================================= [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Edlow. Mr. Correa, as I said, I have concerns. As you know, I've worked with you before, I'm happy to work with you and work with your staff and discuss this more. The only thing that I do want to mention too, is we need to remember that only part of the naturalization ceremonies that we do are administrative. There's a large part of this country that has exclusive jurisdiction before the courts, and so I can't do anything as far as that's concerned. Ms. Lofgren. The gentleman's time is expired. Mr. Correa. I am out of time. I would like to conclude for 2 seconds. I just want to say, Mr. Edlow, let's work on these issues. These are very important topics for new Americans-- Ms. Lofgren. Mr. Correa, your time is expired. Mr. Correa. --for folks that are working hard to keep this country great. Thank you very much. I yield. Ms. Lofgren. Let's turn now to Mr. Buck. Mr. Buck. I thank the chair, and I want to thank Mr. Correa just briefly for his hard work on the TikTok bill and moving forward on that. It was a great demonstration of bipartisanship and I appreciate that. I would ask the chair to recognize Mr. Steube for his questioning. Ms. Lofgren. Well, Mr. Steube is recognized. Hello, Mr. Steube. Mr. Steube. Hey, Madam Chair. Thank you for this hearing. I yield to Mr. Buck. Mr. Buck. I thank the gentleman. Ms. Lofgren. He's just yielded to you, Mr. Steube. Mr. Steube. Yeah, I'm yielding back to him so he can yield to another member. Ms. Lofgren. Okay. Very fine. Mr. Buck. Thank you. We're playing a little ping-pong here. Mr. Steube is a great athlete, and I appreciate him yielding to me. Mr. Edlow, I wanted to ask you real briefly, you mentioned that the backlog and the need for additional funding is a result of the coronavirus issues that we are facing. Would you please expand on that? Mr. Edlow. Yes, certainly. First, Mr. Buck, just so you understand, I'm not saying that the backlog is a result of COVID. The backlog is something we've been dealing with for a number of years. It's the ebb and flow of receipts given programs coming in or things of that nature. The funding issue, yes, is a direct result. We have a chart that I believe we've provided to the Committee that shows at least during the--frankly, during this Administration, the dip in receipts in the end of February, March, and April of 2020 was significant. It was a drop of several hundred thousand to the point where we could not--we went from a deficit that we could recover from to a deficit where there was no way to complete the fiscal year without additional funding. Mr. Buck. The total amount of additional funding, from what I heard the two numbers that you mentioned, somewhere in the $1.3 billion, $1.4 billion area? Mr. Edlow. $1.2 billion or so, yes. Mr. Buck. Okay, $1.2 billion. Are you aware that we are going to be considering a new bill for coronavirus relief that is coming over for the Senate, and it has $70 billion in that bill for K through 12 education? Are you aware of that? Mr. Edlow. I was aware that the bill existed. I have not looked at it beyond what was included for us. Mr. Buck. Okay. So, you're talking about $1.2 billion-- Mr. Edlow. Yes. Mr. Buck. --for a Federal Government function, and Congress will be considering $70 billion for a local function, K through 12 education. The CARES Act had $150 billion in it for State and local governments, again, not a Federal function that we're talking about, a constitutional Federal function, frankly, but a function that Congress has considered to help, absolutely appropriately, with State and local governments. One hundred seventy-five billion in the CARES Act for hospitals, $45 billion in the CARES Act for FEMA, State and local disaster relief. A total of $765 billion was appropriated by Congress to State and local governments for coronavirus relief, and you're asking for $1.2 billion. I think it's important that we put that in perspective. Congress spends billions of dollars, in my opinion wrongfully, but we spend billions of dollars all the time and you're asking for really a drop in the bucket that we should be appropriating to make sure that we are doing our job as a Federal Government and one of the core functions of the Federal Government. To hear the politics that's being played right now is just unfortunate because much of the shortfall that you're facing is a direct result of the coronavirus that has affected so many and infected so many. I appreciate you coming before Congress, and I appreciate your honesty, your integrity, and the fact that I know you. We work together, and I know you wouldn't waste a single dime of taxpayer money. So, for you to come and ask for $1.2 billion, I'm sure that it is necessary and that it is going to be spent wisely and compassionately to make sure that people that are in limbo are treated appropriately and that we are able to process those folks and welcome them to our country. So, I thank you, and I yield back. Ms. Lofgren. The gentleman yields back. Congresswoman Garcia had to attend a competing hearing in the Armed Services Committee. Hopefully, she will be able to return, but until then, Mr. Neguse will be recognized for 5 minutes. Mr. Neguse. Thank you, Madam Chair, for holding this hearing. Of course, thank you, Mr. Edlow, for your testimony. I want to address the current State of the processing backlog, which my colleague from Colorado, Representative Buck, referenced. I think, as I'm sure you are aware and my colleagues would agree, one of the biggest complaints that we receive from constituents on immigration relates to processing delays at USCIS. Can you briefly explain why the case backlog has continued to grow? My understanding is overall receipts have decreased for 2 consecutive years and staffing has increased so significantly, really over the past 5 years. My understanding is that it's about 3,000 people who have been added to your payroll since 2016. So, what accounts for the backlog? Mr. Edlow. Well, sir, receipts have declined, but they've also increased in other years, in 2017 and 2018, and trying to move to be able to complete these cases. We're not at a point yet where we are completing more cases than we're receiving in. That's unfortunately something that we are trying to deal with at this point. We're also dealing with certain things, for example, on the asylum backlog we have about 390,000 cases that are pending. Our asylum folks, the directorate has done an amazing job, especially during the pandemic of pre-adjudicating these cases to get them ready to a position where they can move forward and try to drill down on some of that backlog. We have to recognize that there are other things that happened during that period of time too or prior. For example, spending--putting a lot of our officers dealing with credible fear cases along the southern border, that has pulled away from our ability to handle some of the backlog in the affirmative asylum cases. The same thing is true--we're prioritizing and we are trying to do what we can on the backlog with our field operations directorate and our service centers, and I think we are making progress. You are correct: We've hired more people. We've invested in technology. I think the e-processing is certainly-- Mr. Neguse. Mr. Edlow, just because my time is limited, I would say, I want to say, first, thank you for your candor because I do think with respect to one of the issues that you mentioned, clearly, to the extent that, again, I understand the data might mean different things to different people, but as I understand the data shows that the processing times on average in the aggregate--excuse me, that the applications rather in the aggregate over the course of the last 4 years have, in fact, gone down. So, as you said, to the extent there are competing priorities, to the extent this Administration has made decisions to reallocate resources within your agency to other purposes, which in turn implicates the processing times at USCIS, that is, in fact, one of the main reasons why that backlog persists. Nonetheless, I appreciate your answers in that regard. I, of course, concur with my colleague from Colorado and with Representative Correa. Obviously, we all recognize the budget crisis that USCIS faces, and we all, I think, here in the Congress are eager to assist and want to do what we can to provide the Agency with the necessary stabilization resources that would be needed so that the hard workers at USCIS back in Colorado and elsewhere across the country can continue to do their jobs. I do want to ask you, and I recognize this might be a sensitive line of inquiry, my understanding from my colleagues on the House Appropriations Committee is that the Administration has yet to submit a formal request for emergency funding. While I'm aware that OMB has sent a letter supporting your request, a lack of White House involvement is, at least in my view, is apparent. So, I am wondering if you've spoken or communicated with senior White House or senior DHS officials about the budget crisis and about this request for funds. Have you communicated with them about the need for the White House for Mr. Cuccinelli, for others to tell Congress that they support this request so that we can ultimately build the political consensus here on Capitol Hill to get it done? Mr. Edlow. Yes, Congressman, you're correct. Mr. Vought from OMB did send a very strongly worded support letter to the appropriators. Additionally, Acting Secretary Wolf has sent a letter on our behalf and Acting Deputy Secretary Cuccinelli has made numerous phone calls to Members in both the House and the Senate about our issue. So, this is something that's a whole-of-government approach to try to address, and I've had conversations with people in the White House, with OMB. They are strongly supportive of this. As far as their determination or their decision that no active--no formal, as they're calling, quote, ``formal request has been sent, I would defer you to OMB on that'' unquote. There's no lack of support for this request from the White House, from OMB, or from the Department. Ms. Lofgren. The gentleman's time is expired. I think, if I may intervene, it would be helpful to get a formal request. I mean, we're not doubting your support, but there's some processes. I will turn now to the gentlelady from Florida, Ms. Mucarsel-Powell, for 5 minutes. You need to unmute your microphone and start, again. You're muted, Debbie. There. Thank you. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. Thank you. Can you hear me now? Ms. Lofgren. Yes, we can. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. Thank you. It's not the first time that we've had a hearing with USCIS and backlogs. I represent an area where I have thousands of constituents that have immigrated here to the United States and we get calls every single day about immigration status, to help with a variety of things. About 70 percent of the calls that we're receiving are immigration related, Mr. Edlow. What I hear every single day, when I check those logs of calls, it's that the USCIS agency has terrible backlog so we all know this. We are actually assisting right now a professor that is working in my district. She's been waiting for 3 years for USCIS to reach a decision on her request for an adjustment of status, and her case has been bungled from the start. She's provided additional documentation, met all the demands that USCIS has made, and she's still waiting. So, like that, I have hundreds of cases in my office. As you can imagine, the backlogs affect immigrants who are actually trying to follow the law. They want to go through all the proper processes, but it's affecting families in my district. Actually, when immigrant employees can't get their employment authorization processed in time, it also affects small businesses in my district. You can ask anyone here in South Florida, businesses are very concerned about the issue that immigration faces. So, this backlog has continued to grow and I don't understand--Mr. Neguse really touched on it. We have continued to see an increase on staff that has been brought on by the USCIS, but the backlog doesn't decrease. Now, you're hear asking for more funding. I know that there's a significant problem with USCIS with the funding issues. I also know that you're furloughing many employees. I actually have met one employee that told me just this week that she received a notice from one day to the next that she's going to be furloughed as of August 30 without any sort of back pay or any benefit, and she had to scramble to look for a job. So, let me just say that in my district, I have a Kendall office, and people may lose their jobs, so I'm very concerned not only about the immigration community in South Florida, but also of the workers in the Kendall office that may lose their jobs. So, if at 13,000, Mr. Edlow, if the 13,000 USCIS employees were furloughed for any significant period of time, let's say, 30 days, how would that impact the case backlog? Mr. Edlow. Well, Congresswoman, first, you're right that we are getting a lot of inquiries when it comes to case status and having to deal with people on the backlog. Fiscal year to date, we've received over 118,000 congressional inquiries on largely on that point and other people questioning status of various things. We are--I believe, we've handled about 94 percent of those thus far. In terms of the individual person that you're referring to, if you want to have your staff submit something or get my chief of legislative affairs some information, I'd be happy to look into that and give you a call as to what's going on, but obviously I don't know the case at hand. Congresswoman, I'm just as concerned about the staff in Kendall and everywhere else in Florida and everywhere else in the country by what would happen. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. Let me stop you there, Mr. Edlow, just because of time. Let me just say, again, before COVID, before this health crisis and economic crisis that we're facing, we had a hearing, and the issue is the same and I don't see any improvement. Let me talk about another program, the Cuban Reunification Program. Now, you earlier stated that you get your funding through application fees. Is that correct? Mr. Edlow. Largely, 97 percent, yes. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. Let me just say that I introduced a bill recently, actually, last year to immediately restart the processing of applications of that program to reunify these families. They've been applying for years. They've paid all their fees. Some families that really can't make ends meet, they actually had to pay over a thousand dollars in fees, and this 2 or 3 years ago, before the Trump Administration stopped the program from one day to the next, what is happening with the Cuban Reunification Parole Program, which was started under a Republican President, President George Bush? I have so many constituents. Every day they're sending me messages. They've applied. They've gone through the process. They have paid their fees. You have their money, Mr. Edlow, what is happening to that program? Mr. Edlow. Congresswoman, I would be happy to get back to you on that exact program and provide you and your staff a briefing on that. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. I've requested information for months. I still have yet to receive an answer to this. Now, again, there are families, there are mothers that have not been able to see their children. They have-- Ms. Lofgren. The gentlelady's time has expired. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. If you can give me information. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Lofgren. Let's make sure that not only the gentlelady from Florida, but the entire Committee be briefed on this as soon as possible. Mr. Edlow. Yes, ma'am. Ms. Lofgren. I understand that the gentlelady from Texas, Ms. Escobar, has had to join Congresswoman Garcia in the Armed Services Committee hearing. It's a very important hearing on the murder of Vanessa Guillen, and so I will now recognize the gentlelady from Texas, Ms. Jackson Lee, for her 5 minutes. Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair. I will shortly be joining my colleagues in the Armed Services Committee for the hearing on Vanessa Guillen, who was brutally murdered on the grounds or as a United States military person in the United States Army, what a very tragic and heinous circumstances. Let me, Mr. Edlow, indicate that we are well aware of the plight that the Agency is in, USCIS, because of the decrease in fees and the request or the need for about 1.5, $1.2 billion. I did not hear your answer. Did you say that you had made the request for emergency funds? Mr. Edlow. Congresswoman, we made a request--we worked with the department, as well as OMB, and we were the ones authorized to bring that to the Appropriations Committees, and I've made that clear to the authorizers as well. A support letter was sent from OMB and letters have been sent from Acting Secretary Wolf and calls have been made by Acting Deputy Secretary Cuccinelli. Ms. Jackson Lee. Well, let me just say, Members want to be responsive to this system of immigration that has been the cornerstone of the growth and unique experiment of the United States, but we have some grave concerns. So, let me publicly say, and I'll ask, I denounce and find abhorrent and outrageous the response of the Administration on DACA. DACA is part of the infrastructure of my district. I have had DACA employees, DACA interns. I've invited a DACA, Mr. Cesar Espinoza, a student to the State of the Union and I am confused about, one, the order that says that new applications will be rejected and that it will be a 1-year turnaround or a 1-year application process. Would you give me very briefly the thinking of any sense of humanity for a 1-year status and having to reapply, again? How does that make sense? Mr. Edlow. Congresswoman, I would refer you to the memo which lays out Mr. Wolf's rationale for that. I was not part of that decision. Ms. Jackson Lee. Why don't you briefly characterize it since I'm sure you've read the memo? Mr. Edlow. I have. As Mr. Wolf has said, we are in the process now--and this is what the memo says--of reviewing the DACA program to determine what next steps are appropriate. During that period of time, it makes more sense to have people realize that this is now a 1-year renewable status. Ms. Jackson Lee. So, convey to Mr. Wolf the complete, absolute condemnation of the majority at this time in the House of Representatives and to acknowledge that it is insensitive and inhumane. I think my colleagues have already made the record of the widespread service that DACA status persons are from the United States military to first responders, to COVID-19 hospital personnel, and that it is tragic that a Nation that was built on the hard work of immigrants and certainly those of my descendants, enslaved Africans, would do a dastardly deed like this. Let me move to the idea of people who are waiting in line, and I would ask and join my colleague from California, Mr. Correa, about remote naturalization and how can we help move that forward. That would help with the fees. As you well know, there's an enormous backlog. I've been on this Committee now for 25 years, with consistency, the Subcommittee on Immigration. How can we help have you deliberate and think on the idea of remote naturalization and also the processing of individuals seeking legal status, such as green cards and others? How can we work to get that done? Mr. Edlow. I look forward to working with this Committee to address that. As I said, I believe there's some legal impediments right now to the remote naturalization. I would say there are increasing receipts when it comes to naturalization and, ma'am, I do want to make it known that, during this Administration, on average, we have seen record highs of naturalizations, which includes about 20,000 on average more naturalizations per year than in the previous Administration. We are working very, very hard to prioritize naturalizations and do what we can on that front. Ms. Jackson Lee. Well, I don't know how that could be the case when you do have a budget deficit and there is so many people in our respective districts that have not been able to be naturalized, and so I commend you to doing the right thing and deeply digging into the remote naturalization and we will address the numbers. Ms. Lofgren. The gentlelady's time is expired. Mr. Edlow. If I could maybe respond to that briefly. Ms. Jackson Lee. The gentleman wanted to respond. Ms. Lofgren. Very briefly. The gentlelady's time has expired. Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Edlow. If I may just briefly respond. As far as the receipts, we do have a lot of pending naturalization cases, but those receipts have already come through, so we've already used that to adjudicate cases that are now past. Ms. Lofgren. Thank you. Mr. Edlow. As far as the naturalization efforts that are pending right now, as I said, anyone who is going to be oathed but was stopped because of COVID has now been oathed. It's just now a matter of getting back into the interviews. We are taking very creative measures to try to get people interviewed as quickly as possible and move that forward, but this is something that's going to take some time, but we are working on that. Ms. Lofgren. Thanks, Mr. Edlow. Mr. Edlow. Thank you. Ms. Lofgren. Before calling on Ms. Scanlon, I would like to remind Members who are physically present that there is a requirement to wear a mask and that mask should cover both your nose and your face. If you are unable to do that, we would ask Members to leave the physical space and participate remotely, noting that our colleague, Mr. Gohmert, has just announced that he has tested positive for COVID and he was a member who was unwilling to consistently wear a mask. It's a reminder that this is very serious and if you're unwilling to wear a mask that covers both your nose and your mouth, please do leave the room and we will arrange for you to participate remotely. At this point, I would like to recognize Ms. Scanlon for her 5 minutes. Ms. Scanlon. Thank you very much, Chair Lofgren. I also have been getting a lot of calls about naturalization in my district. I represent the Philadelphia region and I think 10 percent of my constituents are foreign- born, so a lot of family Members, et cetera, who are anxious about that. We've talked this morning a lot about remote naturalization, but what about socially distanced naturalization? We've seen in other regions of the country there have been drive-thru, there's been the use of high school stadiums, things like that. Is the Agency doing anything to meet these practical issues in this time? Mr. Edlow. Yes, Ms. Scanlon. As you see, we are doing drive-thru naturalizations-- Ms. Scanlon. Well, not in my region. Mr. Edlow. Well, in your region, I will tell you, I was there last week where I naturalized in a socially distant ceremony. I naturalized the last group of pending oath cases that had been rescheduled from during COVID. So, Philadelphia is completely up to date right now on naturalizations. Now, I'm not suggesting that we've gotten through all the interviews that we've had to cancel because of COVID. We are still working through that, and a lot of that has, unfortunately, been the result of needing to make sure that we have the appropriate barriers in place and that we can do the socially distanced processing and interviewing in these facilities. So, getting these facilities ready to be safe for our workforce, as well as the public, was something that took some time, but we're naturalizing people outside. We're doing it in a way that keeps people 6 feet apart. The staff, what I witnessed, was one group going out before I was going to go into naturalized, I watched my staff work so tirelessly to quickly sanitize that whole room so that we could have the next group moving forward. I was in Virginia a couple weeks ago to do a naturalization-- Ms. Scanlon. Maybe we can pursue this offline because I've only got a couple minutes, but I appreciate hearing that because my office has been reaching out and we hadn't been able to get that information. Mr. Edlow. Yeah, I'm happy to continue working with you on that. Ms. Scanlon. So, we would love to attend a social distant naturalization ceremony. Mr. Edlow. I would love to have you. I will go with you in Philadelphia. If you want to go to Virginia or Baltimore, whatever you'd like. Ms. Scanlon. Philly would be best. Mr. Edlow. All right. We'll do that. Ms. Scanlon. Okay. This is only my second hearing of this sort. Last year I was here because it's my first full term in Congress and last year we heard about the backlogs and the funding challenges, but the very same day that we had that hearing last year, we learned that CIS officers were being transferred to temporary duty at ICE or they were being asked to volunteer for that. Since then, your CIS has transferred millions to ICE to hire agents and in your new proposed fee increases, again, there's a proposal to annually transfer money from CIS to ICE. So, I'm a little confused about how come--you're telling us that we need to--that CIS relies upon carryover funding at the same time that that funding is being transferred to an enforcement agency which has a separate mission. Mr. Edlow. Understood. As far as the individuals that went over a few years ago, there was some admin support staff that went over to help some admin support staff at a sister agency. Ms. Scanlon. Right, but this at the same time that representatives from your agency were coming in and telling us that you didn't have enough staff. Mr. Edlow. They were not the adjudicators. They were not the ones moving the cases. That said, my understanding is that there has not been a single dollar transferred from USCIS to ICE in, at least, the last two fiscal years, if not before that, too. So, we can confirm and get back to you on that, but I do not believe any money has been transferred to ICE for the hiring of any agents or for any other purposes. Ms. Scanlon. Okay. My understanding was that the new proposed fee increases included some transfers, but if you can check on that. Mr. Edlow. I think there was something in the notice of proposed rulemaking on that. I do not believe that's in the final rule, but, again, we'll get back to you on that. Ms. Scanlon. Okay. Thank you. In December of 2019, Congress passed the Liberian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act as part of the NDAA to create a roadmap for citizenship for Liberians who had been here for a certain amount of time. I think there's about 10,000 Liberians who are eligible. There was only a 1-year window for implementation of that, and it took months after December of 2019 for CIS to issue guidance and then, of course, we landed in the middle of this pandemic. So, we're running out of time. Are you familiar with that program, and do you have any ideas on how we can get through the backlog? Apparently, not a single application for that program has been processed yet. Mr. Edlow. I am absolutely familiar with the program, and I remember when guidance was issued on that after the bill passage. I will need to get back to you as to what's going on with the status of those individuals who have applied. Ms. Scanlon. I'd appreciate it because we have a very vibrant--one of the larger Liberian communities in my region. With that, I'd ask unanimous consent to introduce a statement from HIAS and Council Immigration Agency on why we need to extend the deadline for Liberian citizenship given the extraordinary barriers that have arisen this year. With that, I yield back. Thank you. [The information follows:] MS. SCANLON FOR THE RECORD ======================================================================= [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Ms. Lofgren. The gentlelady yields back. I would note that no other Members are present at this point, so we will conclude this first panel. I would note, Mr. Edlow, that we will keep the record open for 5 days. Members will have 5 legislative days to submit additional written questions for witnesses or additional material for the record, and we would ask that you respond to those questions promptly should that occur. At this point, I'm going to ask that we have a brief recess so that we can transition to the second panel. I would like to remind Members, once again, of the requirement to have a mask that covers both your nose and mouth. If you're unable to do that, we will ask that you leave the hearing. With that, we are in recess for about 5 minutes. [Recess.] Ms. Lofgren. So, if Members can reconvene, I believe that we are ready for our next panel, and I would like to introduce them. First, I want to introduce Sharvari Dalal-Dheini. I think I've mangled your name--I have apologies--who is the director of government relations for the American Immigration Lawyers Association where she directs the association's administrative and congressional advocacy efforts with a focus on illegal immigration system. She has been cited in numerous national media stories and recently authored an article for Think Immigration on the USCIS budget short falls. Prior to joining AILA in May of 2019, Ms. Dalal-Dheini served for 11 years as counsel with the USCIS office of the chief counsel. Michael Knowles is the President of the American Federation of Government Employees, Local 1924 AFL-CIO. Local 1924 represents over 2,500 USCIS employees in the national capital region. Mr. Knowles also serves as special representative for humanitarian affairs for the AFGE National Citizenship and Immigration Services Council 119, which represents 14,500 USCIS employees worldwide. Mr. Knowles has worked in the fields of human rights and refugee protection since the end of the Vietnam war and as served as an asylum officer with the USCIS Arlington asylum office since 1992. Doug Rand is a senior fellow and director of the Technology and Innovation Initiative at the Federation of American Scientists, focusing on the intersection of immigration policy and artificial intelligence. He's also the cofounder of Boundless, a technology company that assists individuals in navigating the immigration system. Prior to this, Mr. Rand served for 6 years under the Obama Administration as assistant director for entrepreneurship in the Office of Science and Technology policy. Finally, Jessica Vaughan, has worked with the Center for Immigration Studies since 1992 and currently serves as director of policy studies. Ms. Vaughan is also an adjunct instructor for senior law enforcement officers at the Northwestern University Center for Public Safety in Illinois. Prior to her work with the Center for Immigration Studies, Ms. Vaughan was a foreign service officer with the U.S. Department of State where she served in Belgium, Trinidad, and Tobago. We welcome all of our distinguished witnesses on this second panel, and we thank them for participating in today's hearing. Now, if you would all please rise, I will begin by swearing you in. Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief, so help you God? Ms. Vaughan, you are not unmuted. Ms. Vaughn. Thank you. I do. Ms. Lofgren. Okay. The record will reflect that each one of the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Please note that each of your written statements will be entered into the record in its entirety, and accordingly, I ask that you summarize your testimony in 5 minutes. To help you stay within that time, for those witnesses testifying in person, there's a timing light on the table. When the light switches from green to yellow, you have 1 minute to conclude your testimony. When the light turns red, it signals your 5 minutes have expired. For those who are testifying remotely, there's a timer on your screen to help you keep track of time. So, let's hear from our first witness, Ms. Dalal-Dheini and you're going to help me on how to pronounce your name. Please unmute and begin. Ms. Dalal-Dheini. You can call me Shev, but my last name's Dalal-Dheini. Ms. Lofgren. That would be so helpful, thank you. TESTIMONY OF SHARVARI DALAL-DHEINI Ms. Dalal-Dheini. Good morning, Chair Lofgren and Members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today about the need for oversight, accountability, and transparency into the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, especially in the light--in light of the possible furloughs of more than 13,000 of its employees due to an alleged budget shortfall. I serve as--I am honored to be here on behalf of the American Immigration Lawyers Association, a bar association of more than 15,000 immigration attorneys and law professors. I am here on behalf of our Members and the countless families, vulnerable individuals, students, and businesses they regularly represent in front of USCIS who will suffer tremendous harm if the U.S. immigration system comes to a halt. Even more so, I am honored to be here as someone who worked for over a decade with the dedicated civil servants at USCIS whose livelihoods are now in jeopardy. Having spent the majority of my career at USCIS, I am someone who strongly believes in the mission of the Agency and deeply care for the people who work there. I am also someone who can clearly see when the Agency has strayed from its statutory mission of focusing exclusively on the Administration of benefit applications and has transformed into a vetting agency more focused on stopping legal immigration. I was hired by USCIS in 2008 because of congressional appropriations it received to help eliminate backlogs. We are here today because, once again, USCIS is asking for a bailout and processing times have skyrocketed, but this time there's no operational plan attached to reduce backlogs, just one to make their customers pay for it. USCIS claims that its financial woes are result of the coronavirus; however, USCIS' problems existed well before the pandemic caused by years of fiscal mismanagement as well as the Agency's implementation of many policies that negatively impacted its own revenue. Throughout most of my career at USCIS, any time a new policy was being discussed, there was a concerted effort to consider the operational impact it would have and to keep backlogs in check. Things changed in 2017 when a new group of political leadership took rein. As new policy measures were being discussed, it was made explicit that operational, legal, and financial concerns didn't matter. This isn't inside information. This approach is clearly written into USCIS' recent policies that form an invisible wall to immigration. USCIS has decreased efficiency, increased the cost of adjudications, slowed case processing, and discouraged people from applying for benefits. Many of these policies are detailed in my written testimony, but today I highlight one particularly egregious example. In 2019, USCIS instituted a policy to reject applications that leave any spaces blank, even if not material. This has resulted in outrageous rejections. For example, a young child's asylum application was rejected for failure to write N/A for the dates of employment, even though, the application was clearly marked that there was no employment history. Similarly, multiple cases were rejected because the answer written was none, not applicable, or NA, instead of N/A despite the form instructing that it was okay to do so. This blank space policy unnecessarily adds multiple layers of review and cost by requiring review of the entire application in the first instance, mailing back the application at the government's cost, and reviewing the application, once again, upon resubmission. There is no evidence that it helps detect fraud or weed out frivolous applications. All that USCIS has accomplished with this, and the many other policies is to deter lawful immigration and put its own workers at risk of losing their jobs. USCIS cannot furlough more than 13,000 U.S. workers. These are real people with real financial and family responsibilities. They are not pawns. If they can't work, there will be devastating economic and social impacts on American families, businesses, and students. USCIS' request provides Congress the opportunity to exercise its oversight authority. Congress must condition any funding on increased transparency, accountability, and efficiency so that the Agency can pull itself out of this crisis by its own bootstraps. AILA urges Congress to take the following steps: One, reject USCIS' proposal to pass off its own efficiencies by imposing a 10 percent surcharge to its customers. Two, impose stringent reporting requirements to hold USCIS accountable such as those included in the bipartisan Case Backlog and Transparency Act of 2020. Three, require USCIS to implement cost-efficient measures for adjudicating applications and petitions, including reforming and rescinding policies set forth in-- Ms. Lofgren. Ms. Dalal-Dheini, your time has expired so we'd ask that you wrap up, please. Ms. Dalal-Dheini. Yep. Almost done. Verify whether emergency appropriations and furloughs are even necessary. The Agency bears a responsibility for correcting its systemic problem and Congress must hold it accountable. Thank you, and I am happy to answer any questions. [The statement of Ms. Dalal-Dheini follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Ms. Lofgren. Thank you very much. We will now turn to Mr. Knowles for his 5 minutes of testimony. TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL KNOWLES Mr. Knowles. Thank you, Chair Lofgren and Ranking Member Buck, and other Members of the committee. It's a great honor for me to be here, and hope you know how much it means to the workforce to have one of their own here. I wanted to recognize Mr. Edlow for his compliments to our professionalism and our dedication, and to all your Committee for your hard work supporting us so that we can do the work of the American people. My main message today is keeping us at work. Don't send us home. I'm a little concerned that some of the dialogue today seems to not recognize the urgency of this situation. The plight of 13,000 Federal employees is not merely their own plight, but the entire immigration system of the United States is hanging in the balance, and it would be a great tragedy if a furlough were to be allowed to go forward because the various parties on the Hill and the Administration can't seem to agree on what needs to be done and when. For folks who are viewing on television might not understand the word furlough. It's not a vacation. It's a layoff. It's actually people being without work, having their benefits disrupted, and it could become a permanent separation from duty if measures are not taken to restore our operations. I liken the word ``furlough'' to a free fall. A free fall, if you would imagine, somebody jumping out of a plane and not being sure when or if their parachute is going to open. Our employees are deeply, deeply concerned. Their confidence is deeply shaken. Their confidence in the leadership of the Administration is shaken, and, frankly, their confidence in the Hill is shaken because they're just not quite sure people value their work and the importance of their work to our country enough to Act swiftly and so we're here today to implore everyone concerned. Red, blue, left, right, center, Administration, Congress, please Act now. We're well aware of the concerns that many have about the crises facing our country, the pandemic, the crisis of immigration. Our agency's certainly broken and needs to be fixed. Many of us have been calling for years for comprehensive immigration reform, but these things cannot reasonably be expected to be fixed in 30 days. So, our union does not wish it to be seen that we're coming here asking for a blank check for our boss. We're asking that you keep us at work and that you work diligently with our Administration and with each other to create an action agenda that will incorporate accountability, guard rails, and other things that are very necessary to get immigration services back on the right path. I think the views of our union are well-known to the Committee and to the public. We have been very outspoken in the last 3 years about some of the horrible and harmful policies of the Administration, particularly in the area of humanitarian affairs, refugees, and asylum. Their protection is at risk and our country's compliance with their obligations to protect the persecuted leave much to be desired. So, all of these things we continue to speak loud and clear. We will continue to do so. We have filed numerous Amicus briefs. We recently filed substantive comments opposing the new asylum regulations. We intend to continue to do so. The most urgent thing I must ask is, please, let us stay at work and, please, Congress, do your work and get us the funding that we need, and agency--we ask the Agency to, please, do the right thing. Use the money for what it's been allocated for. We certainly oppose the reprogramming of any funds for any other purpose than immigration services. Ms. Lofgren. Mr. Knowles, your time is expired. We'd ask you to wrap up, please. Mr. Knowles. Right. I would just say to reiterate that the failure of the immigration service would be devastating to the entire country. Our economy, our health system, our humanitarian programs, our educational systems, our agriculture, all of it's at risk, so let's stay on the job and get the job done. Thank you for listening to me. [The statement of Mr. Knowles follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Ms. Lofgren. Thank you very much. We will now hear from Mr. Rand. Mr. Rand you are recognized for 5 minutes. TESTIMONY OF DOUG RAND Mr. Rand. Chair Lofgren, Vice-Chair Jayapal, Ranking Member Buck, and Members of the Subcommittee on Immigration and Citizenship, it is an honor to appear before you today to address the oversight of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. My name is Doug Rand, and I'm providing this testimony in my personal capacity. Today I wish to emphasize that USCIS is simultaneously suffering from three crises: First, a mismanagement crisis that is the fundamental cause of the Agency's demand for a bailout from Congress. Second, an accountability crisis that this Congress must remedy. Third, a naturalization crisis that could disenfranchise over 300,000 future Americans by this November. In mid-May of 2020, USCIS suddenly announced that without a $1.2 billion bailout from Congress, it would soon need to furlough over 13,000 of its employees because of projected revenue shortfalls resulting from COVID-19. It is clear, however, that the Agency's financial troubles are, in fact, due to mismanagement and deliberate policy choices that long pre- date the pandemic. Let's rewind the clock to the end of 2016. The Obama Administration had just increased USCIS user fees to put the Agency on a firm financial footing for years to come. Over the next 3 years, annual agency revenue shot up by over $700 million, even as the annual number of cases dropped by 5 percent, but apparently all this extra money wasn't enough for the Trump Administration. Even though, USCIS had an $800 million carryover balance at the end of Fiscal Year 2018, last November the Agency warned that it would be over $1.5 billion in the hole by the end of Fiscal Year 2020. In other words, 1 month before the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was even discovered, USCIS was already projecting that a massive cash crunch would occur right around now. That's because USCIS knew well before the pandemic that it was jacking up expenses even faster than revenues, especially payroll expenses. Since 2017, USCIS has increased its head count by nearly 20 percent. Why? First, USCIS is declared an ambition to more than double the size of its fraud detection and national security directorate with nearly a thousand additional hires, even in the absence of any publicly disclosed evidence of the need for such a surge. Second, USCIS has created massive new red tape requiring more staff to complete fewer cases. The Agency's internal cost to process just five of its most common forms has shot up by over $500 million per year. This is the inevitable consequence of a flurry of unnecessary policies. Three of the most consequential are: The imposition of mandatory interviews for hundreds of thousands of green card applicants, the elimination of the H-1B prior deference policy, and the public charge rule, an unlawful wealth test that has made green card adjudications vastly more complex and time consuming for no legitimate reason. On to the accountability crisis. For nearly two decades, USCIS has been relatively under scrutinized by appropriations and oversight committees in Congress because it always had some service of funding. Take the new USCIS fee rule, which seeks to eliminate fee waivers for low-income naturalization applicants and transfer some hundred million dollars of USCIS user fees to ICE despite multiple directives from Congress not to do so. I've read the hundreds of pages in this proposed fee rule, and you can take my word for it, nowhere does USCIS adequately explain why it needed $1.3 billion of extra revenue each and every year even in advance of the COVID-19 pandemic. As a condition of any bailout, USCIS must be fully transparent with all its financial and operational data and submit to a thorough independent audit so that the public and this Congress can understand precisely how this insolvency debacle happened and how to prevent it from happening, again. Finally with the general election just a few months away and the right to vote at stake for hundreds of thousands of aspiring Americans, USCIS is created a naturalization crisis. The average processing time for a citizenship application has doubled to 10 months and is much worse than average in many of your own congressional districts. Citizenship applicants are waiting as long as 18 months in Santa Anna, Swarthmore, and Houston, and well over 2 years in North Dakota, Phoenix, Miami, and Seattle. Worst still, USCIS is not remotely on track to naturalize the next 350,000 people in line for naturalization who would normally be eligible to vote this November, but still haven't had their interviews yet. These aspiring Americans are young and old, Republicans and Democrats, living across the country. An estimated 68,000 are in California; 3,300 in Colorado; 40,000 in Florida; 200 in North Dakota; 8,000 in Pennsylvania; 27,000 in Texas; and 6,100 in Washington State, all of them at risk of not being able to vote this year. This dereliction of duty is hiding in plain sight. Unless USCIS immediately expedites naturalization interviews and administers same-day oath ceremonies, then these 315,000 citizenship applicants, some of whom have been in line for nearly 2 years, will be disenfranchised. Thank you for your time, and I look forward to any questions you might have. [The statement of Mr. Rand follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Ms. Lofgren. Thank you very much. The gentleman yields back. We will now hear from Ms. Vaughan for 5 minutes. TESTIMONY OF JESSICA VAUGHAN Ms. Vaughn. Thank you very much the opportunity to testify today. The Trump Administration has implemented many sound policies and regulations to restore the integrity of our legal immigration system. It's now administered in a way that aligns more closely with our national interests, better protects U.S. workers, and makes it harder for special interests, bad actors, and opportunists to gain the system. Claims that these changes are meant to block or delay legal immigration are baseless. In fact, according to USCIS data, in the last year processing times have been constant or improved for the majority of applicants. Some of the processing backlogs have been significantly reduced, and USCIS approved the highest number of new citizens in 11 years. Nevertheless, a variety of chronic problems aggravated by external pressures, including the coronavirus pandemic, continue to challenge the Agency. Besides the crushing workload, rampant fraud, and influx of frivolous applications, USCIS operates under an obsolete funding process that hampers its progress. Moreover, there are too many large benefit programs like DACA, new visas, and asylum applications that are a fiscal drag on the Agency because the applicants don't pay the full cost of processing their applications. The new fee Rule will help in the short-term, but to ensure the Agency's sustainability, Congress should reduce the number of fee-exempt programs and reform the fee collection and appropriations process to give Congress more oversight over how USCIS uses its revenue and also provide that stability. USCIS has the challenge of balancing the imperative to correctly and fairly adjudicate applications with the expectation for them to be adjudicated within a reasonable timeframe. Further, the Agency is constantly subject to pressure from special interest groups like employers that sponsor a lot of foreign workers and immigration and legal aid attorneys who badger the Agency to adopt policies that they think will favor their clients or their own practices. For too long, USCIS leadership succumbed to this pressure at the expense of correct and fair adjudication. The results were unsatisfactory for the Nation and especially for those in the U.S. workforce who have suffered harm because of rushed decisions, tolerance of fraud, or questionable prioritization of cases with serious consequences sometimes. Recall the case of Tashfeen Malik, who 5 years ago with her husband, killed 14 Americans and wounded 22 others in a terrorist attack in San Bernardino, California. She originally entered on a fiancee visa and investigations after the attack revealed that USCIS and the State Department were careless with her application, missing several indicators that should have led to a denial. At the time of the attack, her brother-in-law was busy arranging a fraudulent green card marriage between one of their accomplices in the attack, an illegal alien. More recently, the Trump Administration has prosecuted and denaturalized dozens of terrorists, war criminals, human rights violators, and other serious criminals who lied, used false documents, or otherwise fraudulently obtained immigration benefits that put them on the path to citizenship. Denaturalization of these people is not an attack on immigrants, but an attack on fraud. Often it is legal immigrants in the community that tip off authorities as to who these people really are. Two days ago, the Department of Justice announced a settlement deal with Asta CRS, Incorporated, a technology staffing company that flagrantly discriminated against U.S. workers in hiring. Asta has placed hundreds of visa workers at companies like Anthem, Barclay, FedEx, Capital One, and CVS, and sponsored some employees for green cards while illegally shunning U.S. workers. It's not anti-immigrant to bust these companies. In fact, it opens job opportunities for all legal U.S. workers. Last November, a Federal grand jury indicted two South Korean nationals for submitting 117 bogus applications for alien workers, enabling 125 aliens to live in the U.S. after paying visa fees of tens of thousands of dollars. They put fraudulent tax and other corporate documents in their client's application to deceive USCIS adjudicators and falsely claim that their clients could not find suitable U.S. workers. These illegal schemes clog the system and prevent legitimate applicants from accessing the system. So, immigration adjudications cannot be done on the cheap or considered pointless red tape. The new set of fees that USCIS is about to implement will help, but it's not going to be enough because of the other chronic problems in funding. Too many of the application fees are still set artificially low. For example, under the new fee structure, asylum applicants will pay a fee for the first time, $50, but the actual direct processing cost for these applications is $366. When you count the indirect processing cost, the fee really should be set at $1,800. So, asylum applicants, most of whom are actually ultimately not found qualified for the benefit, will continue to be subsidized by legal immigrants and their sponsors. Fee waivers are another problem. So, it's time for Congress to consider moving to an appropriation of the fees that USCIS collects in order to get that stability and offer-- Ms. Lofgren. The gentlelady's time is expired. If you could wrap up, that would be helpful. Ms. Vaughn. Thank you very much. [The statement of Ms. Vaughn follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Ms. Lofgren. Thank you very much. All our witnesses' testimony is supplemented by their full written testimony and now is the time when Members of the Committee may ask questions of this panel, and I will begin. I want to talk to you first, Mr. Knowles, because I am so concerned and sympathetic with the professional staff at USCIS. I want you to know that our staff and the staff of the Appropriations Committee has been in communication with USCIS for months trying to come up with a solution. I am confident that Mr. Edlow's testimony today that he wanted to find a resolution is, in fact, correct. I'm not sure everybody in the Administration is where he is, but we are doing our best; however, we actually need a formal request to the Appropriations Committee that meets their requirements, and I know that the Administration knows how to do that because they make those requests frequently. So, we hope to get past that barrier and I'm hoping that this hearing will help move us past some of the barriers that seem to have come up. I want to mention to Ms. Dalal-Dheini, if I may, a question. We've heard a lot about the mismanagement and poor implementation of policies that led to the budget crisis. Now, you worked at USCIS for more than 10 years through three different presidential Administrations and you've discussed in your testimony certain factors that previous Administrations would consider prior to implementing policy changes to ensure it goes smoothly. Now, what factors would a responsible leadership at the department consider when rolling out new policies and procedures and how might we work with the Administration to make sure that an orderly process is included so that we don't end up back in the same spot in another month? Ms. Dalal-Dheini. Thank you, Chair. Yeah, I've experienced working through three different Administrations and working on rolling out policies, and what was very almost a reflexive nature of what would happen in the process of rolling out policies was that the impact on the operations and the adjudications would have a coequal voice at the table. It would be discussed. If we do this, then X is going to happen to adjudication. It would look at the bigger picture of how it would work in the grand scheme of things, but what's also important is also a constant review of the impact of the policy after it's been rolled out. What is the actual effect? You can assume an effect before it rolls out, but then you have to continue analyzing what that effect is. That's why AILA has been a big supporter of the bipartisan Case Backlog and Transparency Act because it mandates those reporting requirements to ensure that USCIS is paying attention to the impact of the policies that they roll out. Ms. Lofgren. That's very helpful. Now, I'd like to ask Mr. Rand, your testimony was very helpful, but you are here not only because of your expertise, but because of your knowledge about the intersection of immigration policy and science. Are you seeing an impact on science in the United States through the way the Administration is administering our immigration laws at this point? Mr. Rand. Thank you, Chair Lofgren. Certainly, we're seeing an impact. It's an incredibly adverse impact from the entire array of policies this Administration continues to impose to restrict legal immigration across the board. It's almost impossible to think of any policy over the past 3 and a half years that is actually improved the ability to serve its traditional roles, a magnet for international talent. I would just point out one thing--many, I could point out. In Mr. Edlow's testimony, he talked over and over again about safeguarding the Nation's immigration system and ensuring that only those who are eligible for a benefit receive one. Let's talk about science for a second. There's maybe one green card category also known as the genius visa for people of extraordinary ability that has been traditionally a way for the United States to attract the best and brightest scientists and researchers from around the world. Approvals are down 26 percentage points since 2017. That's a quarter. It defies belief that a quarter of the genius visa applicants suddenly don't deserve them or never did, including a Nobel laureate who was rejected, why? Because USCIS wanted more information on the interpreter who translated the Nobel award. So, this Administration is doing extraordinary absurd things that are harming America's long-term competitiveness in science technology, engineering, and math. Ms. Lofgren. Thank you very much for that testimony and my time is expired. I understand Mr. Buck had to leave, but Ms. Lesko, you are recognized for your 5 minutes. Ms. Lesko. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to all the witnesses today. Before I ask questions, I first want to make a statement that I think it's absolutely astonishing that a number of my Democratic colleagues on Judiciary Committee and in the whole caucus refused to say anything or condemn outright rioting, looting in our cities, deny that they're really was any takeover in Seattle, CHAZ, chop zone, even though, there are shootings and killings, think it's perfectly fine to set up sanctuary cities, really prioritize illegal aliens, but then chastise me when my mask falls down--oh, my goodness--down here and my nose is exposed. I just find it absolutely ludicrous. In any case, I have a question for Ms. Vaughan. Ms. Vaughan, what is the importance of USCIS detecting fraud? Ms. Vaughn. Well, it's critically important for a number of reasons. First, it's important for our national security because we know from post-mortems of case after case of terrorists who were foreign nationals who carried out attacks here that they often use immigration fraud to get into the country to further their agenda and carry out these attacks. As I mentioned, the San Bernardino attack is one of the most concerning examples. The other reason fraud is a problem is because it destroys the integrity of our legal immigration system. It's no point in having rules for the limited green cards and visas that are available if they're going to be subverted through fraud. The people who suffer from that are not only the sponsors of these immigrants or workers, but also those who are coming on legitimate applications who find that their application times are taking longer and longer because the Agency has to weed through so much fraud and frivolous applications. The asylum system is the most obvious example of that where we find that only a small percentage of the people who actually submit those applications will be found qualified for that, if they even show up for their hearings. I saw this morning that something like 300-some thousand asylum applications that are now pending and The Wall Street Journal had an article this morning about a woman who is a Uighur from China who's also a student in Rhode Island whose application has been on hold for years because the Agency has this backlog of hundreds of thousands of cases, many of them were illegal border crossers who heard that if they made an asylum claim that they would be allowed to stay in this country almost indefinitely. Those are all the cases who, by the way, have not been paying a fee for the asylum application that are clogging up the system that prevent USCIS officers from moving forward with these cases and getting to approve the bonified cases within them. The same is true of family-based applications and employment-based applications. That's what happened when DACA was implemented. The DACA cases were made a priority, even though, they, too, were not paying a fee that really covered the full cost of their application. At the time that meant that U.S. citizens who were trying to sponsor their spouses and children and employers who were trying to get needed workers here on visas and getting green cards approved, all those cases were shifted to the slow lane so that the DACA cases could be prioritized, and this eventually is a real drag on the system. I don't think the taxpayers should have to cover the cost of our legal immigration system, but I also don't think that legal immigrants should have to subsidize the processing of benefits for people who haven't come here legitimately and who are merely trying to gain the system and commit fraud. Ms. Lesko. Well, thank you. I only have 16 seconds left, so I yield back my time, Madam Chair. Ms. Lofgren. The gentlelady yields back. At this point I would like to recognize the gentlelady from Washington, Ms. Jayapal, for 5 minutes. Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you all so much for being here. I really appreciate it. This is a subject that's near and dear to my heart as some of you know. I'm one of only 14 naturalized citizens to serve in the United States Congress and it took me 17 years to get my citizenship and series of alphabet soup of visas. It was a difficult process, but I know that I'm one of the lucky ones, and I really deeply appreciate the work that the employees at USCIS do. Thank you, Mr. Knowles. I appreciate the work of AILA and all of you that are here talking about how critically important naturalization and citizenship services are to this country. Despite the Trump Administration's harsh rhetoric that would have you believe that no one is in compliance with U.S. immigration laws, there are actually millions of people that are bending over backwards to do everything that we ask of them, and yet Trump's USCIS, the USCIS as it has evolved under this President, is making that process as difficult and slow and expensive as possible. People across the country are experiencing this every day as they face unprecedented wait times, overly stringent vetting, and will soon pay drastically higher fees. So, Ms. Dalal-Dheini, let me start with you. Do you agree with the statement that there has been purposeful attempt to dismantle USCIS and legal immigration processes? Ms. Dalal-Dheini. Thank you, Representative. Yes, I do agree with that statement because if you look at the policies that have been enacted, they deliberately decrease USCIS efficiency, drive up the cost of adjudication, slow down case processing, and discourage individuals from applying because the system has gotten so hard to navigate. It's become much more complicated, complex, and although the claims are that it's for fraud detection or to weed out frivolous applications, there hasn't been evidence to that. Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Rand for an agency to undergo such drastic changes as we've seen at USCIS, is that a decision that stems from the Agency itself or from the White House? Where is that coming from? Mr. Rand. Thank you, Vice Chair Jayapal. I think it's pretty clear that it's the White House that is dismantling from the top down our immigration system, and it's eliminated at this point any dissenting opinions from the political ranks throughout DHS, including USCIS. The White House and USCIS' leadership are working together hand in glove every day to create these massive new barriers to immigration, including legal immigration. I mean, just look at the fact that USCIS is still on paper headed by Ken Cuccinelli, a man who has compared immigrants to rats and who often gets to use the White House briefing room to spread misinformation. Ms. Jayapal. So, as much as the White House would like us to think that some of their efforts are around undocumented immigrants, people who have not been afforded any fair process to be able to actually legalize their status, it seems that this is a concerted effort to end legal immigration as we know it. We've heard a lot today about the budget crisis facing the Agency. Ms. Dalal-Dheini, is it your belief that this crisis is as a result of decreased applications due to the pandemic or an outcome of an agencies that actually trying to dismantle itself? Ms. Dalal-Dheini. So, USCIS identified in its proposed fee Rule back in November of 2019 that it would have a $1.5 billion deficit at the end of the fiscal year. So, clearly, coronavirus isn't the only problem. There may have been a decrease in receipts, but what we have seen is that there has been a decrease in receipts well before that, but an increase in personnel and an increase in processing times. So, clearly, that's not a good business model if you want to be efficient and work like a business. You have to be able to maximize your efficiency to deliver the best service. So, yes, I do think it's been intentional to do that. You've seen some policies that they've rolled out. For example, Mr. Rand mentioned the adjustment of status interviews, which have been mandated for every single employment-based adjustment interview. These are individuals who have been in this country for years on end, who have gone through the system, have been vetted multiple times. The average case processing time for those have increased by 58 percent in the matter of a few--in 2 fiscal years. Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Knowles, my time is running out, but I first want to just say thank you, to you and the many dedicated employees at USCIS. We deeply, deeply appreciate what you do. Do you agree that this shift that has been described here is at the root of the budgetary problems facing the Agency? Mr. Knowles. I believe that that is a large part of it. Certainly, the pandemic is in sort of a perfect storm scenario. Yes, I think the budget crisis is largely a result of the Administration's policies on immigration. Ms. Lofgren. The gentlelady's time has expired. Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back. Ms. Lofgren. Thank you very much. The gentleman from California, Mr. Correa, is recognized. Mr. Correa. Thank you, Madam Chair. First, let me start out by, Mr. Knowles, I just want to thank you and your Members of your group for your support and good work supporting our communities as they try to become citizens and pursue the American Dream. A lot of your union Members are my constituents, and I hear from them every day, success stories and horror stories. So, again, thank you very much. As you were talking, I was texting a couple of my constituents who are very concerned about this issue. I wanted to address some questions, comments, to Mr. Doug Rand, actually to all of you. I'm going to ask the same question to all of you. Mr. Doug Rand, you mentioned there was an increase in personnel of 20 percent or 20,000 new hires to detect fraud. Is there any way to figure out whether the--under the cost-benefit analysis whether this increase in personnel to detect fraud actually resulted in more fraud being detected or it simply just slowed down the system? Because as you know and I know, if you apply an adjustment of status or citizenship and you lie in that application, later the authorities can come back and pull that adjustment of status or that citizenship out from under you. So, my question to you is, has this new fraud effort yielded any results? Mr. Rand. Representative Correa, I appreciate that question. I can say very confidently that USCIS has provided no data or backup to the public to justify its huge staffing surge in terms of fraud detection. If that effort is bearing any fruit, we have yet to see any evidence of it despite anecdotal reports that are always going to be available. I would point out that safeguarding our Nation's immigration system doesn't just mean ensuring that those who aren't eligible don't receive a benefit. Everybody agrees with that. It also means ensuring that people who are eligible to receive their benefit, and that is something that this Administration has guaranteed is not going to happen. Take the public charge rule. Thousands of people are going to be denied green cards based on wealth, health, education, disability, and a host of other arbitrary factors even if they are unlikely to use welfare and other social safety net programs in the future. So, this Administration fails to admit that integrity goes both ways. It's not just about preventing fraud. Mr. Correa. Mr. Knowles, does that public charge Rule take into consideration the taxes that these individuals pay into the system at every level, Federal, State, and local? Mr. Knowles. I can't quite speak to the Agency's policies on that, but I believe I could say that our union agrees with the statement of Mr. Rand that he just made. Mr. Correa. Mr. Rand, let me ask you that same question. Does the public charge rule, does it consider the taxes that these workers pay into the system, Federal State, and local? Mr. Rand. Absolutely not. Mr. Correa. So, you're just looking at the cost and not the expense side--or the benefits side of having a productive work in our society? Mr. Rand. That's correct. Mr. Correa. Okay. Very quickly, I'm running out of time, a minute and a half here, a little bit less. I'm going to ask a quick question to the other Members of the panel, which is should we support a full audit, full transparency? Mr. Knowles, do you support audit transparency? Mr. Knowles. Always. Mr. Correa. Ms. Vaughan? Ms. Vaughan. Yes, I do support audits and transparency for the process and especially on the matter of fee waivers. I think that everyone should get more information on the extent to which USCIS is giving fee waivers. Mr. Correa. Thank you. I'm running out of time. Madam Sharvari, do you support that? Ms. Dalal-Dheini. Absolutely. Transparency is necessary to shine a light on the broken system. Mr. Correa. I have so many other questions, but very quickly, Ms. Vaughan, I'm going to come back to you and very quickly ask, do you support a merit-based immigration system? Ms. Vaughan. Yes, I do. Mr. Correa. Where would a farm worker fit in that system? Ms. Vaughan. Well, farm workers right now come in mostly through the H-2A nonimmigrant visa program. It's a temporary work program. In our current immigration system-- Mr. Correa. There's a lot of undocumented immigration farm workers out there working without a green card. How would they fit into that system? Ms. Vaughan. Well-- Ms. Lofgren. The gentleman's time is expired. Mr. Correa. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Ms. Lofgren. Thank you. We will now recognize the gentlelady from Florida, Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. I'm with my colleague, my good friend, Representative Jayapal. I'm one of the 14 naturalized citizens in this country, and it's incredible to me how we refer to immigrants, like Representative Lesko, as aliens. We're humans. We contribute greatly to the economy of the United States. Actually, immigrants contributed more than $11 billion in taxes. The reason why there's so many undocumented immigrants in this country, it's because of the failure of the agencies that process these applications. Most immigrants that I have spoken to want to go through the process to get legal documentation so that they can continue to pay their taxes, stop hiding behind the attacks of the Trump Administration, and continue to do the work that they came to do. Most of them have been here for decades. We need to find a way for us to process these applications and provide a path for legal, whether it's citizenship, legal resident status. The attacks against immigrants has got to stop. There are so many myths, and I would like for Mr. Rand to comment on this. I know that, since the Trump Administration took over, in 2017, refugee admissions dropped to the lowest since 2002. He has enacted stricter restrictions to H-B1 visas. He's trying to follow a merit-based immigration system. Mr. Rand, if you can comment on how this would affect the American economy because I know that maybe some of my colleagues who talk a lot about the economy may start paying some attention. I can tell you in my area, Mr. Rand, most Republicans--I have an area where there are thousands and thousands of immigrants that live in my area in south Florida that came from another country who are entrepreneurs, who are contributing to the economy, and Republicans have asked for immigration reform. They want them to remain here legally, but there's not a path. I want you to talk on the effects that the Trump Administration immigration policies can affect our economy and our economic recovery. If you can comment on that, please. Mr. Rand. Thank you so much, Representative. I think one could go on and on about the economic benefits of immigration. That is something that there's almost no dissent among reputable economists about. Immigration of all skill levels, high- and low-wage, builds our economy. It is a myth that immigrants steal jobs from U.S. citizens. We should be so lucky as to have more immigrants who become new Americans, like yourself and so many others. I would just also add that, when comprehensive immigration reform passed the Senate with overwhelming bipartisan support, at that time in 2013, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office noted that, if this had passed and had increased immigration through legalization of the undocumented as well as increased future flows, this would have put the Social Security trust fund on much firmer footing, this would have increased our GDP dramatically, this would have reduced budget deficits dramatically, for all those who say they care about fiscal responsibility, and would have increased U.S. worker wages. So, without a doubt, if you do the opposite of that, which this Administration is trying to do, our economy is going to take a hit in the near and long term. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. Mr. Rand, and since we're on the topic, do you think that immigrants, undocumented immigrants are taking jobs away from native-born Americans? Mr. Rand. There is no evidence in the economic literature of that, despite what many people would say rhetorically. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. Thank you. Mr. Knowles, I want to shift to you. There's been a lot of criticism, particularly from my colleagues across the aisle, that asylum and refugee applications were not vetted properly prior to this Administration. Do you agree with that characterization? Mr. Knowles. I absolutely reject that characterization. I think we could say that the asylum and refugee programs have been among the most rigorous, most professional. We certainly provide vital services to protecting refugees. We also do a good job of fighting fraud and combating terrorism. We're on the front lines. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. Thank you, Mr. Knowles. Mr. Knowles. I would appreciate more support for what we do. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. I know. You're career professionals, and we're going to do whatever we can to support all of the employees who are especially now facing furloughs in the future. Can you just describe quickly how asylum applicants were vetted in previous Administrations so people understand that there's a very strict vetting process? When you hear fraud, and we don't have a lot of data that provides those-- Mr. Knowles. Well-- Ms. Lofgren. The gentlelady's time has expired. The witness will be--if you could very quickly. Mr. Knowles. Yeah. If I could just say that the vetting process is very careful, I would say extremely careful. If you just look at our performance standards for asylum officers, 60 percent of our performance metrics and measures focus on how well we determine credibility, how well we do security checks and the like. So, we're very-- Ms. Lofgren. Mr. Knowles, perhaps you could provide a more fulsome outline to us for the written record, if you would, please. Mr. Knowles. We could send you our performance metrics plan. Ms. Lofgren. Thank you very much. We'll now turn-- Mr. Knowles. We do a careful job. Ms. Lofgren. Thank you very much. Ms. Scanlon, you are now recognized for 5 minutes. Ms. Scanlon. Thank you very much. Mr. Rand, just to follow up on one point. I asked the USCIS representative about the suggestion that funds be transferred from CIS to ICE, and he said they haven't transferred that money. Are there indications that CIS has some interest in diverting funds to ICE? Mr. Rand. Representative Scanlon, there are certainly explicit indications in that the Trump White House has requested the authority to transfer hundreds of millions of dollars or more of USCIS user fees to ICE in its budget request, and USCIS reiterated this request in its proposed fee rule. So, they've asked for permission. We don't have evidence that they have actually executed those transfers in defiance of Congress. I would say, all that Mr. Edlow told this Subcommittee just now is that, to his knowledge, such transfers haven't happened in the last two fiscal years, and, of course, this Administration has lasted for more than 2 fiscal years. So, I certainly think it would be worthwhile to get a clear, unequivocal answer to that very important question. At the same time, Mr. Edlow and others have also admitted that, even if funds were not transferred, personnel resources were seconded over to ICE at a time when USCIS can ill afford to lose any resources in its losing battle to beat back skyrocketing backlogs and wait times. Ms. Scanlon. Thank you. Thank you for helping to clarify that. Ms. Dalal-Dheini, given your background, which includes having worked at CIS for more than a decade, can you describe in lay terms the impact that the proposed furlough would have on CIS personnel? Ms. Dalal-Dheini. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I can give you examples of individuals who I know have gotten furlough notices. You have a single mother of a toddler who recently purchased a home. You have a recent master's degree graduate who just secured a position as an asylum officer and is dependent on healthcare insurance for chronic healthcare conditions. You have a dedicated employee who served the Agency for more than 20 years and is nearing retirement. You have an experienced professional who has two young children whose spouse has already been laid off due to COVID-19. So, those are some. Then there's also the impact of what will happen to U.S. families, businesses: People won't be able to vote in time. Individuals stuck in the backlog for naturalization won't be able to vote. DACA recipients will not be able to renew their benefits. Asylum applicants will face increased delays. Critically, businesses won't be able to hire or retain essential employees needed to recover from the global economic crisis that we are now facing. Ms. Scanlon. Okay. Thank you. Just to clarify, so we have people in this country who've met all the requirements for citizenship; just because of the backlog, they haven't actually received their citizenship yet, and as a result, they can't vote in this year's election? Ms. Dalal-Dheini. So, there's a backlog of individuals who are waiting to be administered the oath ceremony, and after they are, then they're citizens and would be eligible to register to vote. Ms. Scanlon. Okay. We've heard a lot about mismanagement and policies that have led to the current budget crisis. What factors do you think responsible leadership should be considering when rolling out new policies and procedures for CIS? Ms. Dalal-Dheini. Well, I think the issue is really to consider how much--to be able to properly balance the fraud detection, the need to detect that, and extreme vetting, right. There's a difference between understanding who is eligible and not eligible, but then the vetting that this Administration has taken to it goes to such an extent that it's just holding people back even though they're eligible. It's not about security. It's about deterring people from becoming American citizens. Ms. Scanlon. So, nobody here is advocating that we just tear down the borders and let everybody in. We're still talking about enforcing security? Ms. Dalal-Dheini. Absolutely. I mean, as an employee of USCIS for over a decade, it was important to balance the need to protect our homeland with administering faithfully the Immigration Nationality Act. It's honoring our heritage to welcome immigrants to benefit our country. Ms. Scanlon. Thank you. I appreciate that clarification given some of the rhetoric that we've heard. Are there any accountability mechanisms that Congress should consider before agreeing to CIS' request for emergency funding? Ms. Dalal-Dheini. So, as I mentioned in my testimony, there are a few. First, we really need to make sure that their inefficiencies are not passed off to the customers unless it's by their choice. The second is reporting requirements because, since USCIS is 97 percent fee funded, Congress does not have the opportunity to provide oversight, and reporting requirements need to be about the status of the backlog, about the processing of different cases. In addition, they need to implement cost-efficient measures. Many of the policies rolled out-- Ms. Lofgren. The gentlelady's time has expired. It would be wonderful if we could get the complete list for the written record, and we will take that into account. All time has now expired for questioning of our witnesses, and we do have a deadline of 9 o'clock to conclude. So, I will thank the witnesses, both Mr. Edlow and the second panel, for being with us and participating in this hearing. Without objection, by unanimous consent, I will put into the record statements from 20 organizations that have asked to have their statements made part of the record. I'll note also that Members have 5 legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses or to provide additional material for the record. If we do have questions for you, we'd ask that you do answer them. We appreciate your participation here today. MS. LOFGREN FOR THE RECORD ======================================================================= [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] I'll just close by saying it's obvious that we need to come up with a solution for what's going on here, and that involves money, but it also involves policy. When the Nobel Prize winner is being second-guessed, the Nobel Committee is being second guessed on the scientist, Houston, we have a problem. So, let's hope that we can resolve some of those problems, get this agency back on the right track, and certainly do it in a timeframe that allows the much valued professional staff to have to stop worrying about their own personal future, which is only natural. At this point, I will thank everyone for participating, and we are adjourned. [Whereupon, at 11:53 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.] APPENDIX ======================================================================= [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]