[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
THE ATROCITIES AGAINST UYGHURS AND OTHER MINORITIES IN XINJIANG
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
MAY 6, 2021
__________
Serial No. 117-35
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://
docs.house.gov,
or http://www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
44-450 PDF WASHINGTON : 2021
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York, Chairman
BRAD SHERMAN, California MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey Member
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
KAREN BASS, California JOE WILSON, South Carolina
WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island DARRELL ISSA, California
AMI BERA, California ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas LEE ZELDIN, New York
DINA TITUS, Nevada ANN WAGNER, Missouri
TED LIEU, California BRIAN MAST, Florida
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota KEN BUCK, Colorado
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
COLIN ALLRED, Texas MARK GREEN, Tennessee
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan ANDY BARR, Kentucky
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia GREG STEUBE, Florida
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York
ANDY KIM, New Jersey AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas
SARA JACOBS, California PETER MEIJER, Michigan
KATHY MANNING, North Carolina NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, New York
JIM COSTA, California RONNY JACKSON, Texas
JUAN VARGAS, California YOUNG KIM, California
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida
BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
Sophia Lafargue, Staff Director
Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
WITNESSES
Ziyawudun, Tursunay, Survivor and Advocate....................... 8
Millward, Dr. James A., Professor of Inter-Societal History,
Walsh School of Foreign Service, Georgetown University......... 15
Turkel, The Honorable Nury, Chairman of the Board, Uyghur Human
Rights Project................................................. 26
INFORMATION SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
Information submitted for the record............................. 56
APPENDIX
Hearing Notice................................................... 88
Hearing Minutes.................................................. 89
Hearing Attendance............................................... 90
STATEMENT FOR THE RECORD
Statement for the record from Representative Connolly............ 91
RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
Responses to questions submitted for the record.................. 93
THE ATROCITIES AGAINST UYGHURS AND OTHER MINORITIES IN XINJIANG
Thursday, May 6, 2021
House of Representatives,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 12:38 p.m., via
Webex, Hon. Gregory Meeks (Chairman of the committee)
presiding.
Chairman Meeks. The Committee on Foreign Affairs will come
to order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a
recess of the committee at any point. And all Members will have
5 days to submit statements, extraneous material, and questions
for the record, subject to the length limitations in the rules.
To insert something into the record, please have your staff
email to the previously mentioned address or contact full
committee staff.
As a reminder to Members, please keep your video function
on at all times, even when you are not recognized by the Chair.
Members are responsible for muting and unmuting themselves.
Consistent with House rules, staff will only mute Members, as
appropriate, when they are not on the record listening, to
eliminate background noise.
I see that we have a quorum. And I now recognize myself for
opening remarks.
Pursuant to notice, we meet today to examine the ongoing
atrocities being committed by the People's Republic of China
against the Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minority
groups in the Uyghur region of China. Since 2017, Uyghurs,
Kazakhs, and Kyrgyz, and Members of other Muslim minority
groups have undergone mass detention and seen their way of life
threatened by China.
As many as one million people have been arbitrarily
detained in mass internment camps, prisons, and detention
centers. They have been subject to forced labor, torture,
political indoctrination, forced sterilizations and abortions,
suppression of religious practices, family separation, sexual
abuse, and other severe human rights abuses.
Successive U.S. Secretaries of State have been clear that
China is conducting a genocide against Uyghurs and other
minorities. Many former camp detainees and people with family
Members that have been detained have spoken out, many at great
risk to their personal safety and that of their families in
China. They have provided firsthand accounts confirming China's
targeted campaign of repression toward Muslim ethnic
minorities.
We are going to hear the harrowing story of one such person
today, a brave advocate and survivor. Official Chinese
statements and documents, satellite images, media reports, and
other publicly available documents have revealed the horrific
abuses inflicted upon Uyghurs and Members of other ethnic and
religious minority groups.
But instead of working with the international community to
investigate these atrocities and bring an end to the genocide,
the Chinese Government has endorsed a strategy of deflection
and disinformation. It has labeled any attention to these grave
human rights violations as lies and rumors; invoked baseless
sanctions on organizations and individuals for their
investigations into the atrocities; and has prevented and
blocked processes for independent investigations into human
rights violations.
Last month, I was proud to introduce H.R. 317 alongside my
friend and the Ranking Member of this committee, Michael
McCaul, to condemn the genocide and crimes against humanity
that are taking place in the Uyghur region. We called upon the
Biden Administration to get the U.S. Permanent Representative
to the United Nations to urge the body to investigate the
ongoing human rights violations, and to invoke multilateral
sanctions against China at the United Nations Security Council.
Moreover, we moved legislation that ensures that the United
States does not do business with institutions and entities that
utilize forced labor in China. In doing so, we have
demonstrated that defending human rights is a bipartisan
priority. This body will continue to shed light on human rights
violations, no matter the country involved, be they friend or
foe.
The United States has also taken action to hold accountable
the Government of the People's Republic of China for these
atrocities, and to punish those responsible for these
detestable human rights violations.
The Biden Administration has implemented targeted sanctions
against Chinese Government officials over their continued human
rights abuses in the Uyghur region. We must continue to work
with our partners and allies in leading a coordinated effort
against what is happening in the Uyghur region of China. We
must send a clear message to urge the international community
to stay united in condemning the horrific treatment of China's
ethnic minorities.
We also must put pressure on China to abide by its
commitments as a signatory to the Genocide Convention and
provide human rights monitors, researchers, and journalists
unrestricted access to report on what is happening in the
Uyghur region. And this should be done free from any
interference.
I now recognize the Ranking Member McCaul of Texas for his
opening remarks and thank him for working together to place
this hearing today.
Mr. McCaul, you are now recognized for remarks.
Mr. McCaul. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this
important hearing. And thank you for working with me on the
resolution.
And just on this very important issue, I think the eyes of
the world are watching. And certainly the Communist Party of
China is watching as we speak.
The genocide against the Uyghurs and other ethnic
minorities at the hands of the Chinese Communist Party is the
moral test of our times. There are few others issues that
demand this level of attention, not just from our own committee
but from the world.
Elevating this issue is one of the key recommendations made
by the China Task Force that I Chaired. So, I am grateful that
we can give it the bipartisan attention that it deserves.
I am also grateful, Mr. Chairman, that you joined with me
to introduce and pass a resolution condemning this genocide and
calling for action. When our resolution passes the House, it
will ensure we are speaking in a united voice with the current
and prior Administrations by calling these ongoing atrocities
genocide. Continuing this bipartisan effort will be essential
as we respond to this crisis. And I thank you for being my
partner on this issue.
Genocide is a term that we reserve for history's most
serious crimes against humanity. It is essential we get our
response right, not as Republicans and Democrats, but as
Americans, because we have faced this test before and we have
always passed that test. Our response to the Uyghur genocide
should be an example of our character, rather than a stain on
our history.
This humanitarian crisis is about more than just U.S.
foreign policy toward the People's Republic of China, it is
about the legitimacy of the post-World War system designed to
stop these atrocities whenever and wherever they are being
committed. It is about how we stop the CCP from contaminating
consumer supply chains with slave labor. It is about how we
stop using cotton sourced from the Uyghur homeland, and picked
by those without a voice. And it is about how we can convince
our private sector to act consistently with American values
after they developed a reliance on the PRC's consumer market
over the last 40 years, and as the United States attempted to
bring China into the family of nations but failed.
That's why I am disappointed that our minority witness
declined our invitation to join us this afternoon. I did invite
Nike Incorporated, an American company, that is now struggling
with the moral challenge many American companies face. Some
analysts claim that Nike's supply chain is tainted by forced
labor in China. Nike has publicly denied they source from the
Uyghur areas, and have denied Uyghur forced labor exists in
their factories.
Simply taking a stand against forced labor has exposed them
to a massive boycott led by the CCP's online mouthpieces.
However, we can assume that part of their decision process may
have been likely the backlash from the CCP.
And on the other end of the spectrum is Disney, which
actually thanked the CCP Propaganda Office responsible for
covering up the Uyghur genocide, and in the end credits in one
of the most recent films, Mulan. And they actually filmed
portions of the movie in the Xinjiang Province.
We cannot put profits ahead of doing what is right. The
American people need to hear from these companies doing
business with the CCP, whether they are household names or who
is just trying to do the right thing, or they are companies who
shamelessly do the bidding of the CCP to maintain their market
access, no matter what the moral cost is.
The true nature of these Faustian deals need to come to
light so consumers can begin to know where their money is
going. And even though Nike has declined to join us today, we
are still honored to be joined by an excellent panel of
witnesses who use their voices to stand up for Uyghurs and
other ethnic and religious minorities who are persecuted by the
CCP.
So, I want to thank you again, Mr. Chairman, for your hard
work in this effort. And thank you so much for holding this
hearing.
I yield back.
Chairman Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member. And thank
you for your hard work in putting this together. It is a
pleasure joining you on this important act and moving forward,
standing up for the true values of America. Thank you.
I would now like to recognize Ami Bera, who is the Chair of
the Subcommittee on Asia, the Pacific, Central Asia, and
Nonproliferation.
Mr. Bera. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Ranking Member.
Again, this is another area where this is not a partisan
issue. We have Democrats and Republicans coming together, and
all of us in Congress, to speak with moral clarity on the
importance in the 21st Century that we cannot let atrocities
like what is happening to the Uyghur population occur in a
vacuum. And we have to draw attention to this.
I am quite pleased at the leadership that both of you have
shown and the leadership that Congress has shown together. We
now have to work with the rest of the world, our partners in
the European Union, other like-minded nations, to elevate this
conversation.
We also have to work with the Islamic majority countries to
highlight the atrocities so that the public in those countries
understand what is happening to the Uyghur culture, their
religion, and atrocities.
So, I look forward to working with both of you, the full
committee, my partner the Ranking Member Mr. Chabot to address
these issues and move them forward. So, thank you again for
holding this hearing.
And I yield back.
Chairman Meeks. Thank you, Chair Bera.
I now recognize the subcommittee Ranking Member Mr. Chabot
for 1 minute.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And as the Ranking Member of the Asia and Pacific
Subcommittee and the past Chair of that committee I have been
following the Chinese Communist Party very closely for years
now. The barbaric repression that they are committing against
the Uyghurs is truly horrific, despicable. Words really do not
do justice to the crimes that the whole world are witnessing
today.
Last month we passed a resolution introduced by Ranking
Member McCaul and yourself, Mr. Chairman, calling the
atrocities what they are: genocide. Forced sterilization,
involuntary marriage, family separations are the order of the
day. This hearing is particularly important because the CCP
routinely attempts to cover up its malevolent actions.
We must take every opportunity to draw attention to the
murders, accounts of rapes, torture, and the Orwellian
surveillance of innocent Uyghur civilians. We must draw
attention to these and countless other atrocities, and then
hold their perpetrators accountable (inaudible).
So, thank you for holding this hearing. And I yield back.
Chairman Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Chabot.
I will now introduce our witnesses.
Ms. Tursunay Ziyawudun with her interpreter, Dr. Elise
Anderson. Ms. Tursunay is a survivor of the Chinese
Government's extra-legal arbitrary detention centers in the
Uyghur region, and an outspoken advocate for Uyghur human
rights.
In November 2016, she was detained for more than a year in
total in two different camps. She was released from the camps
in December 2018 and was granted special parole to enter the
United States in September 2020.
As one of the very few survivors of the camps who have
reached safety in another country, she has provided testimony
to human rights groups, researchers, and journalists
investigating the Chinese Government's crimes against Uyghurs
and other Turkic Muslim peoples.
Next we have Dr. James A. Millward, who is a professor of
inter-societal History at the Walsh School of Foreign Service
at Georgetown University. He also teaches at the East Asia
Program at the University of Granada in Spain.
Throughout his career, Dr. Millward has specialized in the
Qing Empire, the Silk Road, and music and history, historical
and contemporary Xinjiang, Uyghurs and other Xinjiang
indigenous people, and PRC ethnicity policy.
The Honorable Nury Turkel is the Chair of the Board of
Directors at the Uyghur Human Rights Project. As the first
U.S.-educated Uyghur American lawyer, he is a foreign policy
expert and human rights advocate. He was born in a re-education
camp at the height of China's tumultuous Cultural Revolution,
and spent the first 7 months of his life in detention with his
mother.
He came to the United States in 1995 as a student, and was
later granted asylum by the U.S. Government.
Without objection, all witnesses' prepared testimony will
be made part of the record.
And I will now recognize the witnesses for 5 minutes each
to summarize their testimony. So, first I go to Ms. Tursunay
Ziyawudun. You are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF TURSUNAY ZIYAWUDUN, SURVIVOR AND ADVOCATE
[The following statement and answers were delivered through
an interpreter.]
Ms. Ziyawudun. Hello to all of you. My name is Tursunay
Ziyawudun. I am from Kunes County, Ghulja City, East Turkestan.
I am speaking to you today as a survivor who spent time in
a concentration camp in Kunes. Thank you to the U.S. Government
for giving me this opportunity to tell you about my experience.
I thank all of you.
Because I do not know English, Ms. Elise is going to tell
you about what happened to me.
I feel that I must speak up as a survivor for all those who
have not survived. I am not asking for sympathy for myself, I
am asking governments around the world to wake up. The world
should not allow genocide to continue in the 21st Century.
I grew up in East Turkestan. My husband and I moved to
Kazakhstan in 2010. The Kazakhstan Government granted residency
to my husband who is of Kazakh ethnicity, but my application
was rejected. Because my Chinese passport was expiring, I
returned to my hometown in November 2016. Border officials
questioned me:
Why did I go to Kazakhstan?
Had I been in contact with anyone from the U.S.?
One month later, the authorities confiscated our passports.
And a few months after that I was sent to a camp. The
conditions were terrible and filthy. We were told we had
problems with our ideology and did receive education. If we
asked questions, we were beaten. Because of my health
condition, I was released after around 1 month.
The second time I was sent to a camp was far worse. It has
left an unforgettable scar on my heart. I was taken on March
8th, 2018, and kept there for more than 10 months. Buses would
arrive every day with more detainees. It was very overcrowded.
There was a bucket in the corner for our toilet. There were
cameras watching us inside the cell. And we were always hungry.
Each meal was a watery soup and a bun.
We were given injections of unknown medications. Every day
we had to swear loyalty to the Chinese Government and reject
our faith. We had to watch endless videos about Xi Jinping.
Girls would be taken away and only brought back days later.
I saw girls lose their sanity because of it. And then I,
myself, was taken, along with another woman. I was tortured
with an electric stick pushed inside my genital tract. I could
hear the other woman scream from the next room and knew the
guards were raping her. After that, she never stopped crying.
One time an order came. All the women had to be sterilized
or fitted with an IUD. Many young women were crying, screaming
when they were told they would be sterilized and could never
have children.
I left the camp in December 2018. Before my release the
officials warned me if I spoke about my experience there would
be heavy consequences. I still did not feel free.
One day I saw a former cellmate. She had survived, but she
was dead inside, completely finished by the rape. The
Government's goal is to destroy everyone, and everybody knows
it.
In September 2019, I was allowed to leave for Kazakhstan. I
told my story to a Kazakh human rights group and to
journalists, but I was still afraid of the Chinese Government.
There was a suspicious fire at our house. And the Chinese
police would call me and threaten me.
It was only after I came to the U.S. last year that I
decided I could tell the full story of what happened to me. I
knew that I might not be believed. I knew that some people
would consider that my honor was tarnished. But, with the
support of my husband, I took my courage in my hand and told
the truth to BBC reporters. The story was aired on February 2d.
The story sent a shockwave around the world, with Uyghurs
and Kazakhs thanking me for speaking out. They could not stop
their tears as they thought about their sisters and daughters
and what they might be suffering. We cried together.
The Chinese Government reacted by smearing me and the other
survivors who testified about sexual abuse, even a culture of
rape in the camps. At a press conference in Beijing, the
foreign ministry spokesman held up my photo and called me a
liar.
I want to thank the United States for giving me safe haven.
Without your help, I would still be a Stateless refugee, still
fearing that the Chinese Government could force me back to
China.
Now you have my testimony. I ask you to take action.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Ziyawudun follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Meeks. Thank you, thank you for that testimony.
I now turn to James Millward. You are now recognized for 5
minutes, Dr. Millward.
Dr. Millward, you may have to unmute.
STATEMENT OF JAMES A. MILLWARD, PH.D., PROFESSOR OF INTER-
SOCIETAL HISTORY, WALSH SCHOOL OF FOREIGN SERVICE, GEORGETOWN
UNIVERSITY
Dr. Millward. Yes. Thank you.
Chairman Meeks, Ranking Member McCaul, and distinguished
Members of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, thank you
for inviting me to testify about this critical issue. I would
like to mention at the outset that insofar as I have any
expertise to offer, acquiring it has been generously supported
by Title VI, Fulbright-Hays, the Woodrow Wilson Center, the
National Endowment for the Humanities, and by the University of
Arizona where I taught in the early 1990's.
Federal and State public funding has been, and remains,
critical to building and maintaining U.S. knowledge about
China.
When it came to power and took control of Xinjiang in 1949,
the PRC found itself ruling over the diverse peoples of a
former empire, the Qing Empire. Like the Soviet Union, another
socialist State controlling a former empire, for the Han-
dominated Chinese Communist Party to exercise power over
indigenous peoples in Xinjiang, Tibet, Mongolia, and elsewhere
presented both a practical and an image problem: how to rule
over a former empire without being an imperialist and
colonialists themself.
The PRC thus implemented a modified version of the Soviet
nationalities parties, recognizing 56 ethnic groups, including
the Han. It also created so-called autonomous regions,
including Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, and many so-called
autonomous prefectures and counties. The officially recognized
ethnic groups, and supposedly self-governing territorial units,
comprise what we may call the PRC's diversity management
system.
This original diversity management system supported
language, education, and cultural expression of each non-Han
group. In theory, and at times in practice, it protected non-
Han groups from discrimination and cultural erasure by the Han
majority, and ensured each official ethnic group some
representation within the authoritarian government and party.
While very different from the diversity management systems of
liberal democracies, this first generation PRC diversity
system, when honestly implemented, proved popular among non-Han
people.
One might even say that in the 1950's, non-Han people in
China were, as regards racial discrimination and violence,
better off than Blacks and other persons of color in Jim Crow
America.
The Cultural Revolution of the 1960's and 1970's was a
horrific exception, but non-Han groups in the PRC look back to
the 1980's as a relative golden age of PRC diversity policies.
Since 2013, however, General Secretary Xi Jinping has
embarked on a radical new vision of the PRC diversity system.
He has moved the bureaucracies dealing with ethnicity and
religion out of the government and under the direct control of
the Party's United Front Department.
He announced in 2014 that problems in Xinjiang would
require attention not just to material measures--that is
economic development--but also to psychological issues, a
framing that led to the program of so-called concentrated
educational transformation in prison-like facilities for over a
million people, and the imprisonment of hundreds of thousands
more.
He also launched a campaign to sinicize religion in China.
Xi Jinping promotes an idealized, homogeneous Chinese identity
labeled Zhonghua, the centerpiece of his China Dream. A current
Chinese political catchphrase calls on the party to grasp
firmly the forging of a Zhonghua collective consciousness as
the main political line.
This notion of Zhonghua is meant to be a kind of super
ethnicity encompassing all the others. But the word Zhonghua
itself is composed of two Chinese characters that each
individually mean Chinese. And, in practice, the
characteristics of Zhonghua are indistinguishable from those of
Han.
The State promotion of Zhonghua identity then is a top-down
effort to Hanize or sinicize non-Han ethnic groups in China.
The phrase ``forging collective Zhonghua consciousness''
reminds us of a metaphor we now seldom use in the United
States, the ``melting pot.'' The Chinese Communist Party,
however, substitutes for the melting pot a blast furnace
directed at the indigenous peoples of Xinjiang. This
industrial-strength metaphor chosen by the party itself aptly
sums up the physical coercion and cultural violence of the
concrete policies inflicted upon Xinjiang indigenous peoples
since 2017, which has been well documented in the work of
numerous researchers, journalists, and U.S. Government
investigations.
My colleague Nury Turkel will present several
recommendations which I will just simply say that I endorse.
And to end, finally let me say that further targeted
sanctions and shaming of responsible parties are warranted and
should be undertaken in collaboration with other nations. It is
crucial, however, that we pursue these efforts without
indulging in broad brush demonization of China or Chinese
people generally. The root of the problem lies with the
policies of the CCP in Xinjiang and the CCP's abandonment of
its own previous multiculturalism. The United States cannot
deliver a message calling for cultural tolerance if it sounds
or acts culturally intolerant itself.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Millward follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Meeks. Thank you, Dr. Millward.
I now recognize Mr. Nury Turkel for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF HON. NURY TURKEL, CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD, UYGHUR
HUMAN RIGHTS PROJECT
Mr. Turkel. Good afternoon, Chairman Meeks, Ranking Member
McCaul, and honorable Members of the committee. Thank you for
inviting me to testify on behalf of the Uyghur Human Rights
Project, commonly known as the UHRP, at this critically
important hearing.
This is my fourth time testifying in Congress in the past 3
years on the same issue. I truly appreciate your leadership in
prioritizing this issue.
I want to highlight a new phase in the Chinese Government's
genocidal policy against the Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslims
in my ancestral homeland.
UHRP has warned for more than 3 years that the end goal of
this policy is the destruction of Uyghur culture, traditions,
language, and faith. Simply put, the Chinese State has
criminalized being Uyghur.
The Chinese State has spent the last 4 years crushing our
culture, language, civilizational accomplishments in poetry,
literature, the arts, and theology, architecture, and
scholarship. Uyghur imams, religious scholars, university
presidents, professors and teachers, successful business
owners, entrepreneurs, they have all been swept en masse into
the modern day industrial-scale concentration camps.
In many cases entire families have disappeared. Very soon,
anything that can be described as Uyghur in our homeland will
be an empty shell, a Potemkin show. It is already a reality,
given the lackluster international response to this staggering
21st Century high tech genocide.
I want to emphasize that genocide denial is in full swing.
The Chinese government is not only implementing a brutal policy
of State violence, causing immeasurable human suffering, it is
also demanding that the world praise its policy. In a way, CCP
is trying to normalize its State violence against a vulnerable
ethnic and religious community.
The CCP now is producing a daily stream of statements,
videos claiming that it deserves praise for helping Uyghurs
live ``a happy life.''
The Government goes even further. It forces Uyghurs to
participate in genocide denials. Officials are forcing them to
sit down and sign for the cameras to show how happy they are.
Dozens of Uyghurs have been forced to make videos
denouncing their relatives abroad, including our fellow
Americans, for speaking up for their freedom.
In February, UHRP released a report on this cruel
propaganda forcing Uyghurs to say scripted lines such as ``the
government never oppresses us.''
The Government is also turning out aggressive propaganda
campaign against global--against global campaign to end State-
imposed forced labor in the Uyghur region. The latest effort
was government-manufactured boycott by Chinese consumers
against foreign brands to defend the so-called ``Xinjiang
cotton.'' One video on this campaign showed Uyghurs dressed in
traditional performance costumes, holding a fluffy ball of
cotton in each hand, dancing and singing a song of praise of
``Xinjiang cotton.'' It is just sickening.
In the short time I have left I would like to raise several
policy recommendations.
I urge Congress to act quickly to pass Uyghur Forced Labor
Prevention Act, which your committee marked up on April 21.
Thank you so much for your leadership on that.
The Uyghur Human Rights Protection Act designates Uyghurs
as a people refugees. It is urgently needed to save Uyghurs who
are at risk of deportment in multiple countries.
The United States should also urge every signatory of the
Genocide Convention to fulfill their obligations under Article
1, the obligation to prevent genocide. And even without making
a legal atrocity crimes determination, Article 1 obliges States
to take action to prevent an unfolding genocide.
Mr. Chairman and Members of the committee, I also hope you
will ensure that American Olympic athletes are not forced to
compete in the shadow of the concentration camps at the 2022
Olympics in Beijing. The United States should coordinate with
like-minded countries to ensure that the 2022 games do not take
place in Beijing as long as atrocity crimes continue.
The United States can and should do more to prevent Silicon
Valley and the U.S. universities from cooperating with CCP or
CCP-founded companies selling the so-called Muslim tracking
facial recognition system being used in this high tech
genocide.
I provided several other policy recommendations in my
written statement that I would be happy to address them later.
In closing, I would like to thank this committee again for
the opportunity to testify and for your commitment to end
ongoing genocides. I am profoundly grateful.
And thank you and look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Turkel follows:]
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Chairman Meeks. Thank you.
I want to thank each and every one of your for your
testimony this afternoon.
I am now going to recognize Members for 5 minutes each
according to House rules. And all time yielded is for the
purpose of questioning our witnesses. I will recognize Members
by committee seniority, alternating between Democrats and
Republicans. If you miss your turn, please let our staff know
and we will come back to you.
To seek recognition, you must unmute your microphone,
address the Chair verbally, and identify yourself so that we
know who is speaking.
I will start by recognizing myself for 5 minutes.
Ms. Tursunay, let me just say to you first your testimony
has hurt me deeply. No human being should ever have to go under
the horrific treatment that you did. I thank you so much for
testifying today and for your bravery and candor in sharing
your story to expose the PRC's horrendous treatment of Uyghurs
and other ethnic minorities.
This is especially true because Chinese authorities have
prevented journalists, and researchers, and people on the
ground from doing so. And so it is so significantly important
that we, the Members of the House Foreign Affairs Committee,
were able to hear from your lips your experiences.
And I was really horrified when you said that even when you
were allowed to leave and were in Kazakhstan, and to the degree
even here in the United States, that you are afraid of the long
reach of the PRC Government and the extra-territorial threats
and harassment that you have faced from the Chinese authorities
while on foreign soil after you left China.
So, the first thing I am trying to find out is, No. 1, has
anyone from the PRC tried to contact you or harass you while
you have been here in the United States?
And if so, how can the United States and other governments
better protect Uyghurs abroad, wherever they may be?
Ms. Tursunay.
Ms. Ziyawudun. Thank you so much. I want to say thank you
to yourself. Thank you for listening to what I had to say and
for listening to what is happening to an ethnic group that is
being treated so horribly.
Well, they called me regularly and threatened me, but they
have not done so since I came to the United States, nor have I
attempted to contact them.
My apologies. I'm not quite sure how to answer such a
political question.
Chairman Meeks. Thank you. And, again, I just want to thank
you for your testimony. I will take it with me forever.
Understanding the atrocities that have taken place around
the world, it is harmful to the human race for this still to be
taking place in 2021. And it is, indeed, very important for
every human being, let alone as Members of the U.S. Congress,
we will make sure that your story gets out. And we will not sit
back and allow it to continue without the United States working
with other international countries to speak out loudly and
clearly so that the genocide and the abuse to people simply
because of their religion or ethnicity that could not take
place. And we will work to make sure we stamp that out.
Now I got to Mr. Turkel or Mr. Millward. You know, hearing
that story really got me. I'm just really quite upset. And even
though I knew it, hearing it, you know, if you're a human being
it gets to your very gut. And it got to me.
Let me ask, in coordination with the United States, the
U.K. and maybe Canada, the European Union, I know in March we
imposed sanctions on four Chinese officials in Xinjiang, the
Public Security Bureau, for human rights abuses. And as a
response, China sanctioned four entities and ten European
lawmakers and diplomats and their families.
What is a sustainable and effective strategy for the
imposition of sanctions when faced with baseless retaliation by
the PRC?
And what can the U.S. Government do to protect individuals
and organizations that speak out against these human rights
violations and Chinese retaliatory measures?
Mr. Turkel or Mr. Millward?
Mr. Turkel. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. That is a great
question.
When we talk about the targeted sanctions, oftentimes you
hear a pushback saying, oh, this may not be an effective
method. China is a big country, they may not--it may not be
able to create a dent to force them to change their behavior.
But based on a recent Washington Post article, one of the
major suppliers of yarn complained about losing about $100
million in 1 year simply because of U.S. companies canceling
out contracts. That shows that our strategy is working.
So, the sanctions, currently there have been 74 punitive
sanctions that have been announced, including 52 entity list
designations, Global Magnitsky sanctions against XPCC, Xinjiang
Production and Construction Corps, which is a paramilitary,
reportedly owns or manages 800,000 shell companies around the
world, largely responsible for the ongoing cotton trade, the
enslavement of the Uyghurs.
So, we are on the right track, but this has to be extended.
I agree with Dr. Millward that naming/shaming in dealing with
Communist China, their leadership, works. They care about two
things:
One, how they are being portrayed in public. We are doing
exactly that. As a result, European parliamentarians, including
two commissions, the International Commission on International
Religious Freedom being sanctioned, in addition to Members of
Congress, former Trump officials, senior officials including
Secretary Pompeo. That shows that our message is being heard in
Beijing.
So, we need to continue to call them out publicly.
And then, two, as I Stated in my testimony, we need to
focus on China's economic interests, the exports and
technology. I participated in studies researching the export
volume to the United States. This has been reported by multiple
organizations, but mainly Stanford Institute of International
Studies reported that during the period of April 2019 through
April 2022 Xinjiang exports to the United States increased
nearly by 250 percent. That shows the magnitude of the problem
that we are dealing with.
So, we need to expand our practice, the ongoing pressure on
businesses. And as we speak, as you well know, the U.S.
Department of Commerce----
Chairman Meeks. I have to cut you off because my time has
expired.
Mr. Turkel. Thank you.
Chairman Meeks. I want to make time for other Members.
So, I now will go to questions and ask and yield to Ranking
Member McCaul for any questions that he may have.
Mr. McCaul. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want to thank
Ms. Tursunay for her powerful testimony. As you, Mr. Chairman,
I was also very moved by her personal experience, but also her
courage and bravery to speak out and speak out the truth even
though the threat from the CCP is very real.
So, Ms. Tursunay, I have a set of questions for you.
Can you explain to Members of this committee why the CCP
views the Uyghur Muslim culture and religion such a threat that
it would open up concentration camps and commit these horrific
acts of genocide?
Ms. Ziyawudun. I also want to say thank you to you.
Similarly, I also do not exactly understand why, but they truly
seem to feel that we are terrifying.
In the time when I was in the concentration camp we had
nothing on our person. The police had weapons, and still they
treated us like we were terrifying. It seems to me that they
just want to get rid of us from this earth. I, I do not
understand.
But this really is a threat to the whole world. And I think
that they are sending this threat to the world through what
they are doing to Uyghurs.
Thank you.
Mr. McCaul. Thank you, Ms. Tursunay. I mean, the CCP
officials have said openly you cannot uproot all the weeds. To
mind the crops in the field one by one you need to spray
chemicals to kill them all.
If that does not speak to genocide, I do not know what
does.
Mr. Turkel, I wanted to ask you about your family. I
understand you still have family in the Xinjiang Province, how
their well-being is? And have they or you received threats from
the CCP for your service?
Mr. Turkel. Thank you very much for asking that question.
I came to the United States 26 years ago. Of the 26 years I
was only able to spend 11 months with my parents. You know, my
background, the way that I was brought to this world. I led
half of my life my parents missing, and simply because CCP.
They do not allow my parents to come to spend the rest of
their time, whatever the time left in this world. Both of my
parents are experiencing serious health issues. They have five
American grandchildren, two American sons. And yet the CCP is
preventing them to leave.
Because of my prominence in the Uyghur human rights work, I
have been dealing with on and off threats. But what is most
egregious is that since I was appoint--I have been appointed as
a commissioner to the U.S. Commission on International
Religious Freedom, their pressure has been stepped up.
I have been unsuccessful in my attempts to get my parents
out of China to take them to hospital to provide the proper
care. That is not happening. I have been trying to reunite with
my family since 2009 unsuccessfully.
Mr. McCaul. I thought the question, I think the naming and
shaming is a great idea, the targeted sanctions, economic, on
those profiting off slave labor in concentration camps. As we
look toward the Olympics, I think there will be a diplomatic
boycott. But I believe the corporate sponsors will still be
involved. And I think there needs to be some sort of corporate
responsibility here.
Can you or Mr. Millward perhaps speak to what we could do
in the Congress to instill this corporate responsibility as the
Olympics, if and when they go forward?
Dr. Millward. I will speak briefly to that, if I may.
Mr. McCaul. Sure.
Dr. Millward. First of all, thank you, Mr. McCaul, for that
question.
I think, you know, in the past a lot of people have looked
at the Olympics issue and looked back at the Soviet invasion of
Afghanistan and said that the boycott was not useful. I think
it was useful. I think we need to use the opportunity, though,
to have as many conversations in corporations, and between the
athletes themselves to spread the message rather than it being
a single up-and-down decision made, for example, by the
President.
Mr. McCaul. Yes. I agree with you. I think we would not--if
we had boycotted Munich during the Nazi regime we would not
have seen Jesse Owens prove to Hitler that his Aryan race was
not superior. And I do not know if boycotting the Russians--I
do think the athletes deserve their time, but I think this
corporate responsibility notion needs to be.
Any idea you have moving forward, I would like to hear
those.
Chairman Meeks. Thank you. The gentleman's time has
expired.
Mr. McCaul. And I yield, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Meeks. Thank you.
I now recognize Representative Brad Sherman of California
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Sherman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this
hearing and continuing the efforts of our committee to focus on
the genocide of the Uyghurs.
We had a hearing on this in December 2019 when I Chaired
the Asia Subcommittee. I commend to those who are watching this
hearing to go back and look at the transcript of that one. In
that hearing we heard from Mr. Ferkat Jawdat whose mother, as
he spoke so eloquently, was in detention for 15 months.
The issue before us is what should we do? So far we have
passed through the House and Senate only some modest acts that
are aimed at particular individuals. Often, this is a way to
make us feel like we have done something by denying tourist
visas, and for people who do not want to visit the United
States; and freezing the U.S. assets of individuals who do not
have assets in the United States.
We came close in 2019 to passing more significant
legislation, which was the Uyghur Act. I introduced the Uyghur
Act, but this was actually Rubio's bill, which we in our
committee used to put a lot of House content in it.
Unfortunately, it has not passed the Senate. It passed the
House; the Senate refused to deal with it.
Ultimately, though, focusing just on individual people or
individual products is probably not going to get the Chinese
Government to change that much. It does contribute to our sense
of purity so we can say no American lips have touched a slave-
picked tomato from Xinjiang. But just not being able to sell
certain tomatoes in the United States is not going to get
Beijing to change its behavior.
To change its behavior what we need is across-the-board
tariffs on all Chinese goods. And this will give us the
bargaining power we need to deal with China on a host of
issues, especially human rights. And it will also reduce
Chinese power, which is very substantial here in the United
States. China has that power because we are so dependent upon
them in our supply chains.
We have talked so much about the plight of the Uyghurs, and
I think the testimony has been illuminating, but I would like
to ask Mr. Turkel about the policy of Muslim States around the
world. Here you have a Muslim group being oppressed in large
part because of their religion, and the Government of Turkey
has at least said a few things under some pressure from Turkic
nationalists in Turkey. But virtually the entire rest of the
Muslim world has been silent.
What can we do to get the Muslim world to be, hopefully,
even tougher on than this than we are?
What can we do to get the Muslim street around the world to
appreciate that whether it is Kosovo, Bosnia, the Rohingya, or
the Uyghurs, it is the United States that is playing the
greatest role in the world in trying to protect this oppressed
Muslims?
So, what do we do to both galvanize support in Muslim
countries for your cause?
And what do we do to make sure that Muslims around the
world know that the United States is taking the lead?
Mr. Turkel. Thank you, Congressman. As you know, of course,
we had this conversation in our first hearing back in 2018,
September 2018. It is incredible we are discussing the same
issue without much progress.
It is very disturbing, to say the least, that the Muslim
majority countries have taken the side with CCP. Even in the
face of CCP calling Uyghur Islam as a mental illness, the
countries like Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt taken, given their full
support, in fact they are publicly praising CCP for its
treatment of the Muslim Uyghurs.
You know, we can talk about economic reasons, but more so
it appears that there is not a common ground, you know,
covering each other's back. These countries are not a
Jeffersonian democracy, but we can just ignore them for a
while.
But there are a few other countries have been in a modest
manner of speaking, like the Turkish Minister of Foreign
Affairs for example, Kosovo signed a joint letter after the
ministerials. And also Qatar withdrew support of that letters,
39-country letters that they sent it to the U.N. Human Rights
Council.
So, there is some, you know, plainly, if I can put it
plainly, have to do a better job rallying support with these
countries. So, I think diplomatic effort would be effective.
So, we can start this with the Organization of Islamic
Conference. This Administration is doing exactly the right
thing engaging with our partners and allies. And this should be
taken to the U.N. We have a----
Chairman Meeks. The gentleman's time has expired. So, got
to get to the rest of the Members. The gentleman's time has
expired.
I now recognize Representative Chris Smith of New Jersey,
who is the Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Africa, Global
Health, and Global Human Rights, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, especially
for holding this important hearing.
Mr. Chairman, as you know, since 1983 I have raised the
issue of the one child, and now two child per couple policy
which has been used with devastating impact on women and
children in all of China, with forced abortion and forced
sterilization as a means of implementing the one or two child
per couple policy.
Now we see--and this has been around for a while, it is not
new--but the whole idea of coercive population control is being
used against the Uyghurs. And, Mr. Turkel, you pointed out some
very devastating numbers that say that the population has
dropped by 84 percent between 2015 and 2018, and 24 percent in
2019.
I have worked with many individuals inside Xinjiang with
the presence of this issue for years. This is a form, it is one
of the definitions of the Genocide Convention, Article 2. There
are five of them. One of them is imposing measures intended to
prevent birth within a group. All five of the criteria for the
Genocide Convention are being violated by the PRC, by Xi
Jinping with impunity.
And I just want to ask a couple of questions of Mr. Turkel,
if you would.
And, first of all, thank you for making the Forced Labor
Prevention Act, introduced by Mr. McGovern and I, your first
priority, listed No. 1. Because I think as my colleague knows,
and we marked it up in committee the other day, Mr. Chairman,
it will create a rebuttable presumption that all goods produced
in the region are made with forced labor, unless U.S. Customs
and Border Protection certifies by clear and convincing
evidence that goods were not produced with forced labor. So, it
shifts the whole presumption, these products will not come here
unless they can prove that they were not made in forced labor.
But if I could, if you could speak to this issue, this
horrible issue of coercing women, of stealing their babies and
destroying them by dismemberment or chemical poisoning, which
is an outrage, and more needs to be done.
Second, you say that in the United Nations the U.S. should
bring the issue to the U.N. Security Council. We will ask the
Biden Administration to do that. Have you had any feedback as
to whether or not they will?
They also say that the U.S. should urge the U.N. Human
Rights Council to go beyond the fruitless demand for an
international delegation to have access to just do remote
monitoring. We know what is going on. We want more information.
But they are going to deny access until the cows come home.
And, finally, on the genocide Olympics, I am going to be
Chairing a hearing probably on the 18th on the genocide
Olympics with the Tom Lantos Human Rights Commission. And, you
know, it seems to me that the change of venue is still a viable
option if there is the political will.
And, again, as my friend Mr. McCaul, the Ranking Member,
mentioned, the fact that corporate America has been aiding and
abetting an Olympics at a venue where there is a current day
genocide occurring, plus other massive human rights violations,
is absolutely unconscionable.
So, if you would, Mr. Turkel, speak to those issues.
Mr. Turkel. Thank you very much.
The forced sterilization population control is one of the
most effective methods or practices in a genocidal campaign.
The family planning policy has been enforced, as you are well
aware from your hearings from the mid-'90's, late 1990's even.
This is an ongoing process, but it has only accelerated in the
last few years, based on the Chinese government's own report.
So, why do they do this? They wanted to prevent the Uyghurs to
exist on the face of the earth.
I recently had a chance to interview one of the former camp
employees, a teacher. She told me that she was forced to go
through sterilization at the age of 50. So, this is outrageous.
I do not think there is a mechanism to address this. Maybe
Congress should consider looking to the way to handle this
legislatively or through a legislative mandate.
On the Olympic issue, I think it is not unusual for the
Olympic committee to consider postponing next year's Olympics
if relocation turned out to be a difficult proposition. It is
unfair to our athletes, American athletes, to compete while the
genocide is ongoing in the backdrop of the concentration camps.
And also, let's be reminded of the history. In 1936, when
Hitler held the Berlin Olympics, he was already building
Dachau. He was engaging in forced sterilization. He was
engaging in forced labor. And 3 years later, he invaded Europe.
There should be concern about China maybe following a similar
practice.
We can sense impatience in Beijing to achieve the global
ambition. So, this should be concerning. We can put aside all
the human rights concerns, but this can be a geopolitical
national security concern for the United States.
Chairman Meeks. Thank you.
The gentleman's time has expired. I now will recognize
Representative Gerry Connolly of Virginia, who is the President
of the NATO Parliamentarian Assembly, for 5 minutes, after
which I will pass the gavel to the Vice Chair of the committee,
Mr. Tom Malinowski.
And as I have to leave, I just want to again thank the
witnesses, especially Ms. Tursunay for her very, very moving
and bold testimony here today. It is something that I will long
remember, even past my time here in Congress. Thank you.
And, Mr. Connolly, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
I think you have to unmute, Mr. Connolly. You are still on
mute, Mr. Connolly. You have to unmute.
Samantha, it looks like we are having technical problems.
Let's come back to Mr. Connolly.
Let's now go to Representative Ted Deutch of Florida, who
is the Chair of the Subcommittee on the Middle East, North
Africa and Global Counterterrorism.
And we will see if we can get back to Mr. Connolly.
Mr. Deutch. Thank you very much, Chairman Meeks. Thanks for
convening this really important hearing.
Thanks to our witnesses for testifying this afternoon.
For years, the government of the People's Republic of China
has used false pretexts to repress and discriminate against the
Turkic Muslims and other minority groups, particularly the
Uyghurs in Xinjiang and the harassment of these groups located
in other countries. Reports describe a systematic program by
the PRC government involving arbitrary detention of more than a
million Uyghurs as well as torture, beatings, food deprivation,
sexual assault, forced sterilization, and denial of political,
religious, cultural, and linguistic freedoms, so much of which
we have heard about powerfully from our witnesses today.
Congress is taking important action to assist Uyghurs,
including passing Representative McGovern's Uyghur Forced Labor
Prevention Act, which sanctions PRC officials responsible for
the repression of Uyghurs. And I am proud to have supported
this and other measures.
However, more needs to be done. That is why I introduced
the Uyghur Human Rights Protection Act in March, to provide
priority to P-2 refugee status to Uyghurs and other minority
groups facing persecution by the PRC government. P-2 is for
groups of special humanitarian concern who are designated for
resettlement processing and provided direct access to the U.S.
refugee system. The bill also streamlines the asylum process
for Uyghurs, encourages allies and partners to also accept
Uyghur refugees, and encourages the Secretary of State to
prioritize the plight of the Uyghurs in bilateral relations
with third countries that host Uyghurs.
The legislation demonstrates congressional interest in
assisting the Uyghur people and signals support for the Biden
Administration's efforts to aid Uyghurs and others persecuted
by the PRC. The bill has received bipartisan support, and I
would like to thank my colleague, Representative Smith, for
introducing it with me, and thank the half dozen other Members
of the committee who have already agreed to cosponsor.
For centuries, the United States has had a proud of history
of welcoming oppressed peoples from around the world, and we
are right to focus on actions within China. The Uyghur Human
Rights Protection Act is a continuation of the best tradition
of U.S. foreign policy and humanitarianism and upholds
America's image as a beacon of hope and refuge and liberty to
millions worldwide.
So, I look forward to working with you, Mr. Chairman, and
other Members of this committee, to advance this bill and
provide additional support for Uyghurs.
Now, Mr. Turkel, in your written testimony you express
support for providing P-2 status to Uyghurs and expediting
Uyghur asylum cases. Can you please describe the barriers the
Uyghurs face, both in immigrating to and declaring asylum in
the United States?
Mr. Turkel. Congressman, thank you so much for introducing
that bill. I thought it was necessary and a critically
important bill.
The humanitarian intervention is something that we could do
while the diplomatic engagements and activities are ongoing.
There are two major challenges for the Uyghur refugees around
the world. In the homeland, there is a heavy backlog being
created since 2013, preventing affirmative asylum applicants to
go through the adjudication process, simply showing up at the
asylum office to have a hearing, an asylum interview. We can
work to expedite that. The Uyghurs are not asking for blanket
immigration status. They would like to have a day with the
asylum office to tell their story why they cannot be returned
to China in the face of the ongoing genocide.
In other countries, particularly in the Middle East,
Turkey, to be exact, a large number of Uyghurs have been
wandering and hiding because most of the host countries have
derogatory information on them. They also collaborate with the
Chinese State; namely, countries like Egypt and the UAE have
deported Uyghurs who are seeking or facing a danger in the
country.
So, the ideal way of handling this issue once we have the
legislation is to set up an independent mechanism, either at
the embassy or through an NGO, to go through an independent
vetting process, to that we can avoid that derogatory
information provided by CCP to those host countries being used
against them.
Mr. Deutch. Mr. Turkel, thank you so much.
Mr. Chairman, there is so much that we can do through this
legislation and the ongoing focus of this committee. I am
grateful for your attention and the Ranking Member's attention
and the leadership of both of you on this vital issue.
And I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. Malinowski [presiding]. Thank you so much,
Representative Deutch.
Representative Chabot is next for 5 minutes.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And my good friend and colleague, Mr. Sherman, raised a
question already that I wanted to focus on, but I will expand
that a little bit. And I will go to Dr. Millward, and then back
to Mr. Turkel on it.
The frustration that I feel, and I think many of my
colleagues, with the Muslim countries across the globe who
basically have stood by silently, or sometimes even worse, as
Mr. Turkel mentioned. And either they are cowed by the PRC or
they are afraid of their reach or their economic power, or
something keeps them quiet on one of the most horrific human
rights abuses on earth today.
What, if anything, can either we or allies, or others, do
to modify the way they are looking at this and actually step up
and help us? It seems the United States is out there,
unfortunately, too often alone on these issues with some of
these other countries that we are supporting in many other ways
and have helped them so much, and they are just silent on
something that they ought to be aggressively speaking out on.
And so, Dr. Millward, could you comment on that?
Dr. Millward. Yes. Thank you very much.
I think the United States, although the measures that we
have been taking now are a very good step, we were a little bit
slow, really at least a year slow, in our own responses to the
atrocities in the Xinjiang region. The recent work with our
allies in Europe, Canada, the U.K., I think it is a very, very
positive step because it is presenting an international view of
what is going on as opposed to simply being a bilateral U.S.
response.
I think this kind of diplomatic work can be extended to
beyond traditional NATO allies to other countries. There was
that list which Mr. Turkel referred to of signatories of a
letter in the U.N. of 37 other countries. That list included
many Muslim majority countries, indeed, but it also included
many countries that are not Muslim either. And the issue here I
think is much more that of authoritarian countries, countries
with their own very bad human rights records, signing on with
China and forming sort of a bloc, an authoritarian bloc, in the
U.N. Human Rights Council, for example.
So, I think more U.S. involvement in the United Nations,
getting back onto the Human Rights Council there, and continued
diplomatic work. There are some Muslim countries that did not
sign that letter. Malaysia did not sign that letter. Bangladesh
did not sign that letter. And so there are some possibilities
that we can work with. Turkey did not, in fact, sign it,
although their position on this is complicated. So, there are
many opportunities, I think, for gaining Muslim countries'
agreement on this. The country of Qatar initially signed, and
then unsigned, that letter of the authoritarian government.
So, progress can be made. It will take diplomatic work.
That is quiet diplomatic work, maybe some guarantees that the
United States is going to stand up for this and not waiver
ourselves.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you.
Mr. Turkel, did you want to comment any further?
Mr. Turkel. Yes. We need a bigger boat, Congressman. This
should not be a matter for the U.S. Government only to consider
a concern. Our traditional allies and partners have started
coming along, but we need to do and we can do a better job in
Central and Eastern European countries, some countries that Dr.
Millward was mentioning, that used to be fighting against the
same fight that the Uyghurs have been fighting, communism.
So, yes, we have to engage in, we have deepen the public
engagement, public diplomacy particularly. Using the local
population would be very useful. Like, for example, in Europe,
if our embassy organizes the victims as camp survivors to meet
with their own government and engage them, that may be helping
them to get onboard. Personal contact can be very powerful, as
we have seen in Tursunay's testimony today. So, our embassies
could arrange that kind of meeting with the local governments.
The Uyghurs have some problem, try not to engage with the
governments in their host countries; the same thing in
Australia; the same thing in Germany. So, if our embassy could
help them to set that kind of contact with their governments,
it could help us to bring them into the fold.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you very much. My time is expired, Mr.
Chairman.
Mr. Malinowski. Thank you.
We are going to go to Representative Bera for 5 minutes
now.
Mr. Bera. Great. Thank you, Mr. Vice Chairman. And thank
you for this important hearing.
I am going to follow the line of questioning that my
colleague from California, Mr. Sherman, initially started,
which is, how do we engage the Muslim majority countries in
this fight? I understand that a lot of those governments are
certainly authoritarian and limit the flow of information. But
it has always occurred to me that, if the citizens in these
countries, if the young people in these countries, understood
what was happening--that mosques are being torn down, that
people's religion is being reprogrammed, and the internment
camps--that you could mobilize the masses to then get their
various governments engaged.
Maybe, Mr. Turkel, this is a question to you. Within many
of these Muslim majority countries, how aware are the citizens,
the young people in the countries, of what is going on in
Xinjiang?
Mr. Turkel. There is one key issue that we have to tackle.
That is disinformation. For some reason, the Chinese have been
very effective misinforming the public in the Muslim countries.
To this day, they are actively telling the world that this is a
problem that the United States made in order to prevent China
to rise. So, this information, we need to tackle the
disinformation campaign that the Chinese have been waging.
And also, we have to recognize that these Muslim countries,
the citizens do not have a voice in these kind of matters. They
cannot go and criticize their governments. For example, this is
impossible even in Egypt and Saudi Arabia for their citizens to
say, ``Oh, you should not take a side with CCP.''
So, I think the diplomatic engagement, public diplomacy,
engaging with those countries individually or collectively
could be very helpful. We can pick a few candidate countries. I
think people may have a different view, but Turkey could be a
good candidate country that we should engage. Malaysia,
Indonesia, they have a large Muslim population. They are also
facing a certain type of CCP threat. So, we should engage with
the government one on one at a high level instead of making
public statements. I think that could be something very useful.
In the previous administration, Secretary Pompeo went to
Central Asia to engage with the Central Asian Turkic States.
Secretary Blinken could do or should do the same, engaging with
people who have historical, traditional ties with the Uyghurs.
Mr. Bera. So, one of our best strategies in the cold war
was Radio Free Europe, and the beauty of it was we did not have
to--we were just telling the truth and making sure people had
access to the truth. So, I do not know if there are ways
through social media.
Recently, I was reading an article in The New York Times
about some of the Uyghur population in Japan, and when the
Japanese public was starting to become aware of what was
happening in China, they started to raise the issue with their
government, probably in a way that the Japanese government did
not necessarily want raised. But, again, I think the population
in Europe now is very aware, which puts pressure on the EU and
countries like France and Germany not to move ahead so easily
with some of these trade deals.
Again, maybe it is forming a coalition of like-minded,
like-valued countries, getting the citizens engaged, places
where you can make access to information more readily
available, and then putting pressure on the United Nations,
having that coalition.
Maybe, Dr. Millward, if you want to add anything to how we
might create that global coalition in my last minute?
Dr. Millward. I do not have much to add to what Mr. Turkel
just said. This is, of course, difficult, not something that
can be easily done by a single passage of a bill or something.
But restoring the United States' own international reputation--
and there is definitely race issues, and so on--this is an
ongoing process that involves issues at home as well as issues
abroad and looking at our own history in the Middle East. But,
insofar as we can take some steps and send some signals around
those things, I think it can only help in being more persuasive
in our conversations with Muslim majority countries in this
discussion about China's treatment of the Uyghurs and other
people in Xinjiang.
Mr. Bera. Right. I am out of time. So, I will yield back.
Mr. Malinowski. Thank you. Thank you so much.
We are going to now to Representative Burchett for 5
minutes.
Mr. Burchett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is very
informative.
There is a lady in my district that she is always on me
about why haven't I do not anything about the Uyghurs, and in
the situation with Communist China, I am as frustrated as she
is. I am frustrated as a committee, and I worry about the
things that we are doing, if we are doing anything at all, or
just another report on a shelf.
And I am wondering with the administration, they seem to
want to cooperate with the Chinese Communist Party, the various
aspects, especially the environment. And I am wondering, do you
think it is smart for us to cooperate with the Chinese
Communist Party in this respect while condemning their human
rights violations? And do any of our guests feel like this can
be separated? Because everybody seems to want to play ball with
them, and I get it, but I am curious what our panel thinks.
Dr. Millward. I will try to address that. Representative
Burchett, I understand your frustration, and the idea of
playing ball with a regime that is doing what it is doing in
Xinjiang is a very difficult one. In my written testimony, I
was playing around with how to suggest and think about this.
And I came up with the phrase of compartmentalizing when
necessary, but do not minimize or marginalize human rights
issues. And I am sure I am telling you and others in the U.S.
Government something you already know by saying this. That is
how politics is done and that is how we do things.
But, with environmental issues, we are facing global
problems, and it is also an economic problem. And it is the
ironic issue that much of the polysilicate, I believe it is
called, which is used to make solar panels, actually is sourced
in Xinjiang. So, I am not sure if polysilicate will become the
next cotton or tomato, but the point is we are really linked
together economically, just as we are linked together morally
with these problems. And we need to be talking about them and
be pushing on them.
And insofar as we can agree on something and have some
conversations going on over the environment--and recent signals
have been a little more positive that the PRC and the United
States can work on some of that--that can only make it easier
to address the more thorny issues at the same time. So,
although it does involve keeping contradictory ideas in our
minds simultaneously, at least from my point of view as someone
who has conversations with Chinese colleagues and friends about
this all the time, it is important to have some common ground
maybe to retreat to now and then. And so then we get out into
the rhetorical battlefield at other times and really work on
the more difficult issues.
Mr. Burchett. I just think too much we are listening to the
Chamber of Commerce, and maybe we need to listen to our hearts
a little more. That almighty dollar seems to be the driving
factor in all of this for us anyway.
Going back to what you said, though, it is easier to
prevent imports coming in from Xinjiang. But there is a report
that 80,000 Uyghurs have been transferred and forced to work in
factories and other jobs in the Chinese provinces. What can we
do to improve that supply chain tracing? This is a joke. You
know, we put it on one province; we do not put it on another.
It is not the whole country, and I get that. But, there again,
when are we going to start listening to our hearts instead of
the Chambers of Commerce?
Dr. Millward. Here, I will agree with you. It is definitely
not just Xinjiang; it is the whole country. And I mentioned in
my written testimony there is a program in China known as the
Partnership Pairing Program, or the Counterpart Pairing
Program, which actually created sister city relationships
between provinces and cities of eastern China, rich provinces
and cities, to go into Xinjiang and build factories and build
industrial zones, and provide educational training. And there
are news reports that some of this, in fact, is directly
involved with the Gulag, with the system of prisons.
So, I think we need to expand our ambit and what we are
looking at to see what is the involvement of Beijing, Tianjin,
Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, and all of the others, in what
is going on in Xinjiang. And that will, of course, create more
pain, but it will also create more
[inaudible]. And so I very much agreement with you,
Representative Burchett.
Mr. Burchett. Yes, we are out of time. I should remind
everybody, every time you buy something made in China, there
has probably been slaved hands on it, and I think we need to
start acting appropriately and acting like a world leader, and
put the greed aside for a little while.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your time and your
indulgence.
Mr. Malinowski. Hear, hear.
Representative Titus, we will go to you for 5 minutes now.
Ms. Titus. Yes, thank you.
I met recently with some Members of the National People's
Congress. It was arranged by the U.S. Asia Institute. And when
I mentioned the Uyghurs, there was kind of two responses. One
was, of course, they denied that they were committing any kind
of genocide and, in fact, insisted that it was just the
opposite, that they have rooted out terrorist plots; they had
eliminated poverty; they were giving the Uyghurs a real
opportunity for a better life.
And then the second argument they made was that it was
really none of our business; this was internal politics of
China. We did not need to get involved in it. We had our own
problems with how we treated minorities in this country.
So, I would ask the witnesses if they would comment about
this and talk about the fact that, as we do draw more attention
to the problem, considering sanctions or getting some of our
allies in the area to condemn it, are we running the risk of
driving this underground and making it more difficult to get
good information about what is happening, so we cannot be
effective in countering it?
Mr. Turkel. I can start. Thank you, Congresswoman.
For the first time, The Washington Post, in the last 20
years, has no reporter in China. Even if we go soft or hard on
China, on the CCP, I do not think it would make any difference.
They do not even want to acknowledge that they are dragging the
international community to engage with this genocidal regime in
the daylight.
They also have no shame referencing the Holocaust when they
are talking about collective punishment. They also have no
shame using their money, economic influence, to buy silence or
turning some Uyghur countries into a client State. They also
have no shame stating that the United States made some mistakes
in the 19th century; therefore, the United States has no moral
authority to speak.
So, when a government, or even an individual, has nothing
to say, they call others liars and pay a whataboutism card. So,
that specifically addresses why the Chinese have been coming up
and engaging in this.
And also, genocide denial is a very active method for the
perpetrators to continue their campaign. So, the longer that
they can confuse people, conflate the facts, and also using
some useful--excuse me for using ``useful''--idiots in our
country from academia, from the think tank, to criticize our
own government--that is injected into China's official
propaganda--it helps the regime in Beijing.
Therefore, we have to be very mindful this regime is
extremely insecure, as has been displayed in Alaska. They have
a very specific objective, both domestically and
internationally, that they want to create a new norm. They have
been expanding the technology that they use to engage in
genocide over 80 countries. We have a much bigger problem to
deal with.
As I pointed out earlier, the United States remains to be
the largest destination for Xinjiang exports, as we speak. So,
it took us almost 20 years to get this problem. It will take
even longer probably to even request more innovative, creative,
bold responses to tackle these monumental challenges that we
are facing.
Ms. Titus. Well, thank you. I was afraid of something like
that.
I would ask, Ms. Tursunay--if that is pronouncing it
correctly--thank you for your courage in being with us today.
I would like to ask if she could comment about the Uyghur
community that is outside of China that is looking over its
shoulder, worrying about being repatriated. Is there any
special targeting or harassment or problems particular to women
and girls that you know about who are facing those kinds of
issues?
The Interpreter. I am going to re-explain the question.
Thank you.
Ms. Ziyawudun. I do not know of any such things. So, I do
not know of anything outside, but, back in the homeland, even
outside the camps, there are such threats that are specifically
targeted at girls and women. So, I was living outside the camp
for 9 months, and in that period there were all sorts of
threats--people from the government; police would come around,
would call all the time. They forced us to drink alcohol, and
so forth. At the end of 2019, those things were still going on,
but I did not see any such things after I went to Kazakhstan
other than----
Ms. Titus. Just the usual?
Ms. Ziyawudun [continuing]. Other than by telephone.
Ms. Titus. Oh, Okay. Well, thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Malinowski. Thank you so much.
We will now go to Representative Barr.
Mr. Barr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And thank you to our witnesses.
And as to this absurd moral equivalency argument about the
United States and our history relative to what is happening in
Xinjiang, I will just say for the record--and I shouldn't have
to--that the U.S. Government is not operating concentration
camps, not engaged in extrajudicial detention, collective
punishment, guilt by association, systematic torture and rape,
medications inducing infertility/impaired mental function,
torture, rape, forced abortion, withholding medical care, and
intense political indoctrination. This is not happening in the
United States. And so it is a shame we have to say that for the
record, but this is just absurd propaganda from the CCP.
Let me ask any of our witnesses--well, actually, let me
start with Professor Millward and Mr. Turkel. Tell me, what is
it about the Uyghur population that creates such a sense of
threat to the CCP? Why is the CCP so particularly threatened by
the Uyghurs?
Dr. Millward. Well, the Uyghur region, or the so-called
Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, it lies outside of
traditional China demographically and geographically, and it
was really taken over by the People's Republic of China in
1949. Now, of course, historical arguments about previous
Chinese States being involved there becomes a historic
question.
But, essentially, it a colonial issue that they have not
wanted to recognize and, instead, tried to argue, through false
historical narratives, that this has always been part of China.
And now, they have come to the extreme point where they are
arguing that the people of the Uyghurs, the Uyghurs themselves,
are historically Chinese, although they do not know it. That is
essentially what this argument has been. And so they have
gotten themselves into this extreme position.
There is a lot of Islamophobia around this as well, and
fear and lack of knowledge of who the Uyghurs are, because
their customs are very different from those of Han Chinese, and
this fear of difference is part of that as well.
And so we see policies such as were mentioned by Ms.
Ziyawudun, you know, forcing them to drink alcohol or putting
pressure on students or officials not to fast during Ramadan;
concerns about pork. Precisely those aspects of Uyghur culture
that are different from the Han make many people uncomfortable
in China. And so they have been targeted by these policies.
Mr. Barr. Okay. Let me ask any of the witnesses, obviously,
President Biden has appointed John Kerry as Special Envoy for
Climate to dialog with the Chinese regarding climate change.
This action, obviously, shows that climate is a priority for
the administration. Special Envoy Kerry went to China to
negotiate with the CCP. President Biden convened a Climate
Summit, invited President Xi to speak at that summit.
Has the Biden Administration taken any similar steps to
stop the CCP from continuing to commit genocide against its own
people? Has President Biden convened a summit to stop the
genocide? Have we sent an envoy to China specifically regarding
genocide in Xinjiang? What actions has the Biden Administration
taken that would put this issue in any remote vicinity of the
priority that the administration is placing on climate?
Mr. Turkel. Let me tackle that question. The Uyghur
genocide, and now reportedly connected to the green technology,
green investment that Americans are making in China,
particularly with solar panels, the Uyghurs homeland also
reportedly is the largest base for windmill turbine. So, I
think it is reasonable to expect that the Biden Administration
bring up these issues because it has been already reported.
Congress is also going after these issues. Recently, Senator
Rubio wrote to the organization that represents the solar
industry. So, they have been put on notice.
As far as the administration's specific actions, they
announced two coordinated sanctions last month. We are
particularly pleased with Secretary Blinken's engagement with
our allies and partners. As a result, we have three parliaments
at least now--Canadian, U.K., and the Netherlands--that have
officially recognized. We anticipate similar action in other
countries, maybe Australia and others in Europe.
And one other thing that this administration did all right
is to raise this at literally every public event. I have been
hearing Secretary Blinken bringing up this issue repeatedly.
So, this is very important, especially publicly calling them
out.
What other additional steps taken? You know, I could
ambitiously recommend Secretary Blinken to visit, request to
visit the Uyghur homeland. This has never happened in the
history. That is possible. If the Chinese have nothing to hide,
open the doors to Secretary Blinken.
Mr. Barr. A good idea. My time has expired, but I hope this
administration, or any administration, to place emphasis on
this issue independent of climate and not just where slave
labor converges with solar panels. I think this is an
independently important issue that should be a priority for the
administration, and I am encouraged with your testimony. I hope
that continues.
I yield back.
Mr. Malinowski. Thank you so much.
Representative Connolly, are you ready to jump in?
Mr. Connolly. I am. Thank you.
Mr. Malinowski. Great.
Mr. Connolly. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
And thank you for our panel.
I am sorry I have had to go back and forth. I have three
Zoom hearings at the same time.
And, Mr. Turkel, just picking up on what I have heard, I
mean, I find it interesting that there would even be an
inferential criticism of the Biden Administration with respect
to call out the Uyghur human rights crisis, given the fact that
the previous administration, and led by the President himself,
almost never talked about human rights, avoided it in his
conversations with people like Vladimir Putin and other venues.
And in the brief few months the Biden Administration has
been in power, what I understood from your testimony--and I do
not want to put words in your mouth; please clarify if I got it
wrong--but, I mean, this administration actually has brought up
the Uyghur human rights crisis in every exchange, public and
private, with the Chinese that we know of, including Secretary
Blinken's meeting with his Chinese counterparts in Alaska. Is
that correct?
Mr. Turkel. Yes, that is an accurate statement. The one
specific action, if you will, that the Biden Administration is
taking is the continuance of the policy initiatives or the
executive actions put in place in the previous administration.
As I noted, there are 74 punitive actions that have been
taken, which is very significant. I have been doing human
rights work in the last 22 years. I never thought that my
government will be taken such a significant action to address
these issues.
Mr. Connolly. I am sorry, let me just interrupt you. You
said there were 74 specific actions taken----
Mr. Turkel. Yes, punitive actions taken----
Mr. Connolly. Punitive actions?
Mr. Turkel. Yes.
Mr. Connolly. This is by the Biden Administration?
Mr. Turkel. No, the whole previous and current
administrations all together.
Mr. Connolly. By the United States?
Mr. Turkel. Yes. And one other thing that I think that
Secretary Blinken or the President himself should consider
doing is a whole day of ``Friend of Uyghurs Summit,'' at least
taking the issue to a G-7 summit next month in the U.K. And
this has to be tackled at a really high level. Mentioning it
publicly, raising it is wonderful, but tangible, long-lasting
actions are required. We need to expand the existing policies
being implemented.
Mr. Connolly. Let me ask you, do you believe that the
United States policy could or should be more specific on items
with respect to the suppression of the Uyghurs, like closing
detention camps, ending family separation and birth suppression
policies, among others?
Mr. Turkel. Yes.
Mr. Connolly. I mean, is there benefit in our being more
specific in calling out Chinese reprehensible actions?
Mr. Turkel. Absolutely. Your constituents, for example, in
northern Virginia have been separated from their family
Members. Several Uyghur Americans who are working for the U.S.
Government as contractors are looking for family Members. The
Biden administration at least tried to specifically help the
Uyghur Americans to reunite with their grandmothers,
grandparents, or siblings. That should be something that is put
on the top of the agenda.
I could go even further. The Biden administration should
not have a meaningful dialog on anything until at least the
Uyghur American families are being released from the
concentration camps.
Mr. Connolly. We heard from Mr. Millward that--and by the
way, Mr. Millward, I agree with you, and I think it reflects on
the Chinese actions in Tibet as well--there is a certain Han
xenophobia within China about other ethnic groups and the need
to dominate. And unfortunately, they are willing to resort to
very violent and repressive practices to do that.
Did you want to elaborate a little bit, Mr. Turkel, on Mr.
Millward's observation? I am including Tibet. Mr. Millward did
not, but I think he probably would agree--I see him shaking his
head yes--about this impulse within the Chinese culture, with
the Communist Party promoting it, to dominate and repress other
ethnic groups in the country.
Dr. Millward. Could I?
Mr. Connolly. Yes, Mr. Millward, if you want to comment, of
course.
Dr. Millward. Very quickly, it is not within Chinese
culture. It is within the current policies of the PRC. I think
that is important because----
Mr. Connolly. I am sorry, I want to be real clear. I did
not mean to say Chinese culture as such. I meant the communist
culture of China, current China.
Dr. Millward. The current, the current political culture,
yes.
Mr. Turkel. Congressman, no country in the world treats the
Muslims the way that China does. This question came up a few
times earlier. Through the Chinese government, the others,
particularly the people who follow Western religion, could
potentially pose a political threat. So, that threat is their
sense of their insecurity. This is why they have been primarily
targeting the Muslim and Christian population in the current
crisis, or state violence against the vulnerable minorities.
Mr. Malinowski. The time has expired, I am afraid.
Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Malinowski. We are going to go to Congressman Steube
next.
Mr. Steube. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
My questions are for Mr. Turkel. As a member of the Africa
Global Health and Global Human Rights Committee, I would like
to touch on China's role in Africa and how this relationship
can lead to detrimental outcomes to human rights. Chinese
companies have constructed or renovated, or both, at least 186
sensitive African government buildings. Burundi inaugurated a
$22 million Presidential palace. Zimbabwe has a $100 million
parliament building. The Liberian government is expanding its
capital building. The $66 million combined cost of the project
equals more than 2 percent of Liberia's estimated 2019 GDP. All
the buildings, and many more across the continent, were gifts
from the Chinese government.
One of the most appealing gifts Beijing offers African
officials is help maintaining power. Chinese infrastructure
projects often happen around their election season. Chinese
companies are well-suited to provide a political boost because
they can move quickly, in part, because many are willing to
forego environmental impact studies or ignore local labor laws.
Many African rulers will likely side with Beijing over
Washington on key issues and in international settings like the
United Nations. African States comprise nearly half of the 37
signatories of a 2019 open letter defending China's human
rights abuses of its minority Uyghur population.
I introduced a resolution condemning the United Nations'
decision to appoint China a seat on its Human Rights Council on
April 1st, 2020, and demand serious human rights reform.
Even though the United States is by far the largest
humanitarian aid donor to Africa, it will be difficult for
Washington to build global momentum for holding Beijing
accountable, given how unlikely many African leaders will risk
angering China. The large, dependable bloc of African support
that China enjoys will remain a competitive advantage for the
Chinese Communist Party. African governments are helping
downplay Beijing's large-scale human rights abuses in the
Uyghur region and have helped Chinese Nationals win leadership
of influential international organizations.
Can you please share any thoughts or potential solutions on
this very important issue?
Mr. Turkel. That is an excellent question. The ongoing
crisis has an international aspect to it, particularly on
China's ambitious Belt and Road Initiative. In late 2018, a
State-run media mocked the United States by stating something
along the lines of: while the United States destroys your
cities or kills your people, we help you to rebuild your
schools, roads, your infrastructure. The way that we are
dealing with the world's so-called Muslim problem, you should
follow our model.
So, that is one of the official campaigns, in addition to
the economic activities taking place all around the world. It
is the same thing as in Central Asia; a similar situation in
Southeast Asia. I do not particularly follow Africa, but I
would not be surprised that the Africans are also feeling stuck
in these ongoing geostrategic activities engaged in by the CCP
in Africa.
Mr. Steube. I introduced a bill that would keep Huawei
technologies or its subsidiaries and affiliates on the Entity
List. What other measures do you recommend Congress take up to
prevent Chinese companies gaining wealth in the United States
and to ensure U.S. companies do not have ties to Uyghur forced
labor?
Mr. Turkel. Secretary Blinken told Congress in his
confirmation hearing that he will focus on two things. One,
stopped forced labor coming to the United States and our
technology going to China, to facilitate the ongoing genocide.
I do not think that the Silicon Valley has waken up to this
brutality, even in the face of the ongoing genocide. Based on
various reports, the Silicon Valley companies are still
providing technology, transferring technology. They haven't
come out publicly condemning anything or cut ties with
anything, except for Apple recently told media that they are
cutting loose a questionable supplier that makes film, all
film, for the iPhones.
But Silicon Valley needs to step up to the plate. They have
not really, publicly at least, recognized the seriousness of
the issues. Previously, when they come to testify in Congress,
most of the CEOs from the Silicon Valley companies, high-tech
companies, dodge the question about at least the forced labor
aspect of their business practices in China.
Mr. Steube. Thank you for your time today.
And, Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit for the record a
report from RWR Advisory Group regarding companies' complicity
to the Uyghurs atrocities.
Mr. Malinowski. Without objection.
[The information referred to follows:]
RWR
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Malinowski. And the gentleman's time has expired. We
will now go to Representative Wild for 5 minutes.
Ms. Wild. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My first question is to Dr. Millward. The European
Parliament has spoken out and has imposed sanctions on China
based on this issue. In response, China has leveled its own
retaliatory sanctions and a planned China-EU trade agreement
has been put on hold.
Can you describe what the impact has been of the EU moves
on this issue, and whether the pressure is affecting Beijing at
this stage?
Dr. Millward. I think the excessive PRC response to the EU
and U.K. and Canadian sanctions is a good sign that the
measures that democracies are beginning to take are beginning
to work. I believe that there were four individuals and one
entity, if I remember correctly, that the EU had in its own
sanctions. And in response, there were many more, I think 10 or
12; I am forgetting the exact numbers, but including
parliamentarians of multiple parties in Europe, including a
think tank, including an academic. And it really redounded
against the interest of the PRC because it ground that
investment deal to a halt. We just saw yesterday they are no
longer seeking ratification in the European Parliament for
that.
So, I think this shows, actually, a kind of desperation on
the part of the PRC in how to deal with these measures. And it
simply shows how important multilateral responses are.
Ms. Wild. And what do you think the U.S. administration's
best steps are to coordinate with the EU and other
international actors on this issue?
Dr. Millward. I would say more of the same, and as has come
up on earlier on, yes, a bigger boat, as Mr. Turkel said,
expanding to other countries through various means that he
mentioned before, just to show how seriously we take this, and
it is not simply a United States-China issue, that it is the
people of the world who are responding against these
atrocities.
Ms. Wild. And you are absolutely right about that. Very,
very early on in my time in Congress, I was visited by a Uyghur
constituent in my district whose family has been persecuted
because of their ethnicity and faith. I ran into the husband of
that family just the other night, and it has been now more than
2 years since I met with them, and they have not heard a word
and have no idea what has become of his wife's parents.
I would like to direct my next question to Mr. Turkel. Mr.
Turkel, I will start with the question, which is, if passed by
the Senate and signed into law, what impact do you believe that
the legislation that was passed by this Congress, or by
Congress last term, the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act, if
we were able to get that passed by the Senate and signed into
law, what impact do you believe it would have in terms of
putting significant economic pressure on the Chinese
government?
Mr. Turkel. Thank you very much for mentioning your
constituents. Just quickly, there are hundreds of American
citizens who are not even comfortable to come out and testify
on behalf of their missing family Members. We have been dealing
individually, privately, with the victims, but more should come
out. I think this should be prioritized. Saving American
families should be prioritized in anything that we do with the
Chinese.
Ms. Wild. And before you answer my question, let me just
add to what you just said.
Mr. Turkel. Yes.
Ms. Wild. I mentioned that it has been more than 2 years
since I met with this family. I saw the husband the other
night. I learned that his wife, whose parents are the ones who
are affected, is in a severe depression. She was not when I met
with her. She was worried, but not in a severe depression.
Doesn't leave her home and is barely able to take care of her
children, three of whom were born in the United States. So, the
problem is really significant.
Mr. Turkel. Yes.
Ms. Wild. But now, I have not left you very much time. But
what do you think the economic impact would be if we were able
to get this legislation signed into law?
Mr. Turkel. It will be tremendous, but the action, the
legislation mandate, should expand to the entire of China, not
only specifically the Uyghur region. Even if they stopped the
forced labor practices in the Uyghur region, the Chinese could
easily relocate. Actually, it is already happening. They are
removing the Uyghurs to coastal area assembly lines. This has
been an ongoing practice at least in the last 20 years. We just
came too late into the game to find out about these practices.
Ms. Wild. The good news about this I think is that we do
have bipartisan support.
And with that, I will yield back. I know my time is up.
Thank you very much, Mr. Turkel.
Mr. Turkel. Thank you.
Mr. Malinowski. Thank you so much.
We will now go to Representative Pfluger, please. Go ahead,
sir. You have 5 minutes.
Mr. Pfluger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the
opportunity to talk about this issue.
First off, I would like to thank all of the panelists. Ms.
Ziyawudun, thank you for your courage. Thank you for standing
up for so many others around the world, and I know that this is
limited in scope to this discussion. We appreciate your courage
to stand up, to tell the truth, and to do the right thing here.
I read your written testimony, and it is not without a lot of
emotion.
And so I would like to start my questions by just asking
you personally what your thoughts are on how the U.S. Congress
can help to make sure that we get the facts out and we hold
those accountable for these atrocities.
Ms. Ziyawudun. Thank you. So, ever since I got out of the
camp, I have just been so nervous and so scared. I find it
difficult to speak sometimes. There are so many things that I
want to say in my heart, but I cannot always say them because
it is very tough for me.
Right now, the situation back there is very grave, and
Uyghurs in east Turkistan are in the hands of the Chinese
government. As a camp survivor who saw everything that is
happening, what I hope is that you can make our voices heard to
the entire world; that the U.S. Government can stop the
genocide, that it can stop the violence against Uyghurs, and
help us as humans. I hope that is what you can do, is help us
as human beings.
Another thing, just earlier I did not give a complete
answer to the Congresswoman who asked a question of me. As for
threats against Uyghur women abroad, they have been showing our
photos and threatening us. So, for example, in the Foreign
Ministry, they have been showing our photos. They did this to
Ms. Guchahar recently. They are doing it to all of the
survivors. They are slandering us, saying absolutely horrible
things, threatening us with unimaginable words.
And so what I always ask of you is to help us as human
beings; help us end this violence.
Mr. Pfluger. Thank you very much. I hear the pain, and
while I have no idea what the experiences actually are, I
appreciate your bravery, your courage to tell the truth here.
And I hope that this committee will take that human side of it
into account. And I truly appreciate your story. As a father of
three daughters, I want you to know that I hear you loud and
clear, and I think everyone on this committee does.
Dr. Millward, as I listened to that and I read and hear
your statement about the gratuitous provocations, what I would
like to ask you is, where do we draw the line? Because
accountability does need to happen and we need to make sure
that we do hear the concerns; that we stand up for the human
side of this, and that we also hold those accountable. Where do
we draw that line on our ability to hold them accountable? If
you can explain on that--we only have 30 seconds left--please.
Dr. Millward. Well, that is a good question. I think Mr.
Turkel has listed ways to expand the kinds of sanctions that we
can put. I have suggested that we need to look at the
Partnership Pairing Program, which brings it beyond Xinjiang,
to include the involvement of other corporations and other
administrations throughout the China. And I strongly favor
those kinds of targeted sanctions, but targeting more places
that are involved in what is going on. I think that is the only
thing that we really can do to maintain our own values and
trying to help Tursunay and her relatives, and many, many
others.
Mr. Pfluger. Thank you very much.
Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the opportunity to participate
in this hearing. I yield back.
Mr. Malinowski. Thank you very much.
We will now go to Representative Cicilline for 5 minutes.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to begin by thanking Chairman Meeks and Ranking
Member McCaul for calling this hearing. And I think, as we have
listened to this testimony, we recognize that we are confronted
with this incredible responsibility of shedding light on the
gravest of all crimes. And as Members of the Foreign Affairs
Committee, as Members of Congress, and frankly, as citizens of
the world, we will never have a greater responsibility than to
do all that we can to expose crimes against humanity and
genocide, and do everything we can to stop them. So, this is a
sober and serious responsibility, and I really thank the
witnesses for their testimony.
I want to start with you, Professor Millward. The Chinese
government and the authorities in Xinjiang have targeted the
Uyghur population using really cutting-edge technologies--
obviously, the sense of speech with the intent of suppressing
free thought and political dissent. You likened this to locking
up Uyghurs, Kazakhs, and other non-Han people in an extralegal
network of what you described as concentrated educational
transformation centers.
What can the United States and our partners, and the
technology firms in the United States and around the world, do
to hinder the use of the technologies in China, and how can we
better ensure that China will not, or at least make it
difficult for China to, export these technologies abroad to
other authoritarian or hybrid regimes to do the same kind of
harm?
Dr. Millward. Thank you for that question. If you do not
mind, I am going to toss that to Nury because he has gone
through the specifics and knows, for example, pending and
possible legislation about that.
Mr. Cicilline. Great.
Mr. Turkel. Thank you. Thank you, Congressman.
A couple of things we could do in the short term and the
long term. One, we should start documenting the ongoing state
violencing as to Uyghurs, with the ultimate goal to uphold
those to account through domestic courts or the International
Court of Justice somewhere, somehow. That process needs to be
started.
In fact, the UHRP Act that Congress passed and enacted last
June directs our law enforcement to specifically work on these
issues. In bear minimum, protect the well-being of Uyghur
American citizens here in the homeland.
And also, the other thing that I think the DOJ particularly
could consider doing is to open an investigation against
technology firms that have business presence in the United
States, that have been responsible for facilitating the ongoing
high-tech genocide against the Uyghurs. That is doable. The
companies that have a business presence, active business
activities, falls under the jurisdiction of our courts. That
should be looked at.
And then, also, as a capitalist economy, we cannot dictate
the companies to engage in business a certain way, but what we
can do is to advise them to put in place a good compliance
program, good corporate governance. The previous administration
issued a Business Advisory. I encourage and urge the current
administration, the Biden Administration, to renew/update that
Business Advisory, so that American businesses will at least
stop being complicit on ongoing crime.
We have been told as consumers that the American businesses
figure out to do business in China, but they are caught in
crossfire. They need to be told that some of these behaviors
need to stop.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you.
Ms. Tursunay, thank you for your incredibly powerful
testimony. You are a woman of extraordinary courage, and I,
first, want to say that I am very sorry that you experienced
the experiences that you did. In listening to your story, we
cannot even imagine how you have suffered. But your testimony
is perhaps the most powerful testimony I have ever heard, and I
think that the committee and the country can hear.
And so my question is, where have you found that courage to
share this story? And how can we encourage other survivors to
share their stories? Because I do think it is the most powerful
way to activate the world against the Chinese government for
engaging in this behavior. And so, what can we do to encourage
others to do what you have done and share their experiences,
other survivors?
Ms. Ziyawudun. Thank you.
It is not that I am courageous really. It was so difficult
for me to get all the way here, but I think about the situation
on the women I saw and know are in. And ever since then I have
no rest. I cannot rest. My heart is constantly bleeding and I
can see them in front of my eyes. These are people who
experienced the same things as I did, and I saw people who went
crazy. I saw people who even died. And so I made this decision
to do what I am doing, thinking of really very little else, not
even my own life.
But if there is such a thing as truth in this world, there
are innocent people who are being sentenced in these camps to
20 years or to life. And China all along is lying, telling
lies. I will not stop.
I have found some courage from this. I think that this kind
of courage perhaps comes from a feeling of humanity. And you
know, I hope that through doing this I will become lighter 1
day, because this has been so very heavy for me. And so I ask
for your help in this work.
So, when I got out of the camp, it is because my husband is
a Kazakhstan citizen. And so I was able to get out. But now,
thinking of all of this, I am remembering the sound of their
crying voices. They said, you know, ``You're getting out of
here because your husband is Kazakh, but we are going to die
here. We will die here.'' And I just think of those girls. I am
not in touch with them. I do not know what has happened to
them.
Mr. Cicilline. Tell her she is helping them by her voice.
And I know my time has expired.
Mr. Malinowski. Thank you.
I would just add that--and I know this is very, very
difficult--but the Chinese government is very powerful, but the
truth that you are speaking is much more powerful, even though
you are just one person. And I hope that is some comfort.
I will now yield 5 minutes to Representative Young Kim.
Mrs. Kim of California. Thank you, Chairman.
I want to offer my special thanks to our witnesses joining
us today, a special thanks to Ms. Ziyawudun for your bravery
and sharing your story. It is heartbreaking to hear what you
had to experience. And, yes, you asked us to hear your
testimony. We have heard your testimony, and we will take
action and will do more to provide voice to the voiceless. And
this hearing is just a start of that process to amplify stories
like yours.
The ongoing genocide occurring in Xinjiang is as shocking
as it is deplorable, and it is wrong. And I am glad that the
Biden Administration has also recognized it as a genocide, too.
The situation in Xinjiang is unacceptable, and I call upon the
Biden Administration to work more closely with our allies and
partners to hold the Chinese Communist Party accountable for
its abuses and stop the wiping out of the Uyghur and Kazakh
people.
So, let me ask, Dr. Millward, I am going to direct my first
question to you regarding the United States support for the
Uyghur population in China. Can you describe some of the
difficulties our mission China personnel have faced in tackling
the challenges relating to the Uyghur population in China? For
example, what is the Uyghur language capability among our
Foreign Service Officers to impact our ability to operate
effectively in country?
Dr. Millward. I do not know if any of our Foreign Service
Officers--I suspect a few do. I have actually known--some have
asked me about how to study, and so on. And so, I do not know
what to speak without really knowing. Clearly, we do not have a
lot of that kind of knowledge. Our translator today, Dr.
Anderson, is probably one of the best speakers of Uyghur among
non-Uyghurs in the United States, but there aren't very many
such people.
And I think this speaks to a slightly broader issue.
Uyghur, Tibetan, actually, from Mongolian, and China is a very
diverse place. And so our training about that and our foreign
missions need to recognize that. And I am not saying they do
not recognize that, but greater recognition of that is very
important.
The closure of the consulate in Chengdu, which the PRC
enforced in retaliation for our closure of the Texas consulate,
their Texas consulate, I think that has been unfortunate. An
unfortunate side effect of that has been that the entire inland
and much of the non-Han parts of the People's Republic of China
are now thousands of miles further away from a U.S. consulate,
which is, of course, necessary if you wish to seek visas and
other sorts of things.
Mrs. Kim of California. Thank you, Mr. Millward.
Dr. Millward. Yes.
Mrs. Kim of California. I do recognize there is a
difficulty there.
But let me continue on with my questions to Mr. Turkel. Now
that more countries outside of the United States and the U.K.,
including much of Europe and Australia, are finally recognizing
the ongoing atrocities that are occurring in Xinjiang, do you
view Islamic majority nations in the Middle East and South Asia
as being more willing to speak out on abuses directed toward
Muslim minorities living in China? What can the United States
do to elevate Muslim voices around the world on this issue?
Mr. Turkel. As I pointed out earlier, we need to engage, we
need to step up public diplomacy, counter the Chinese
disinformation campaign. They have been very effective, sadly,
misinforming the public and the Muslim streets. And also, they
have been using their economic power to buy out silence. So, we
need to counter these two aspects of the Chinese engagement.
And also, I think this also applies to everyone, including
policymakers in the United States. No country will have an
effective foreign policy engagement or policies with respect to
China unless they recognize the danger that CCP is posing. So,
sometimes recognizing the issue, calling it what it is, is as
important as a substantive policy response. So, I urge everyone
who is in the policy position to recognize the danger that CCP
is posing in the international forum, domestically,
diplomatically, economically.
Mrs. Kim of California. I do not think we dispute that part
there. Thank you so much.
Mr. Millward, let me get back to you.
Mr. Malinowski. The time has expired, Representative Kim,
actually. I am sorry.
Mrs. Kim of California. Oh, okay. Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. Malinowski. Thank you so much.
We will now go to Representative Phillips for 5 minutes.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
To all of our witnesses, particularly to you, Ms. Tursunay,
your courage is not just an inspiration to those of us in the
U.S. Congress, Democrats and Republicans, but all Americans and
all of humanity. And we wish to thank you.
I would like to discuss and learn more about the
surveillance that has been detailed to some degree, but perhaps
you could describe what you were subjected to, both when you
were in detention and, also, when you were not. We would like
to hear more. Thank you.
Ms. Ziyawudun. So, in the camps everything was controlled,
to a degree such that it was difficult for us to even talk to
one another. There was the threat of punishment if we did. We
had to move certain ways, put our heads this way or that way.
We were not allowed to move when we slept. We had to get up
when they said. We had to eat when they said. And they could
see everything from cameras. There were two or three of them in
each cell.
Outside the camps, it was very similar. For example, the
very day I got out, I was assigned a man and woman to come
sleep at my home at all times with me and be at home with me.
So, I was always under control.
Just to go somewhere, I had to go to three different
places--the Public Security Bureau, the neighborhood committee,
and also, to a special police officer assigned just to me--in
order to get permission to move from one place to another. In
addition, every day I had to go out into the square and dance.
So, they even had control over what sorts of activities we did.
And so, after I was out in July 2019, I went to Urumqi to
get a visa, and after I was there, I did not really even go
anywhere in the city, but I had these three different documents
that I had gotten stamped to allow me to go there. And then,
once I was actually there, I had to send videos back to my
police officer showing where I was.
When I walked out on the streets, there were cameras that
would recognize me just by my eyes. And so the cameras would
recognize me, and then police officers would come out, you
know, running up to me and saying, ``Oh, you're somebody who's
been in a camp before,'' and would ask to see my ID card, and
so forth.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you for sharing some more detail.
Mr. Turkel, you mentioned in your testimony some of the
digital surveillance that is happening. Could you elaborate a
bit on that practice and, most importantly, how the U.S.
Government and the international community should be working to
counter it?
Mr. Turkel. In a New York Times piece in the summer of
2019, a reporter mentioned something quite chilling. He was
standing in an intersection and he counted 20 surveillance
cameras over his head. That is just one street corner.
So, what the Chinese have done is to test and use these
technologies and expanding it. So, at this time, China's
surveillance technology is metastasizing. Reportedly, over 80
countries have either adopted or are in the process of adopting
Chinese surveillance. What does that mean? That is a threat
against civil liberty, a threat against democracy, a threat
against an international rules-based system. So, this is
significantly a dangerous trend that everyone should be
literally screaming from the rooftop. The Chinese use the
Uyghur body, soul, their cities, homes for testing these
technologies. Now it is metastasizing.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, sir.
And, Dr. Millward, I just have about 30 seconds left.
Anything that you might want to add relative to the use of
surveillance and tactics that we should be employing to counter
it?
Dr. Millward. There is more and more evidence that these
systems were developed in Xinjiang and aimed at non-Han peoples
in Xinjiang. But they are not limited to that, as Mr. Turkel
was just saying. In many ways, they are expanding to other
parts of China as well, and obviously, around the world. But it
is not simply a security measure in Xinjiang. It is much
broader than that, and therefore, much more worrisome.
Mr. Phillips. I see my time is expired. Thank you all again
to our witnesses.
I yield back, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Malinowski. Thank you, Congressman Phillips.
We will now go Congressman Levin in the car. Go ahead,
Andy, 5 minutes.
Mr. Levin. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
Let me pick up where Representative Phillips just left off.
You know, Dr. Millward, I point out--and I am sure you would
agree--that a lot of these surveillance technologies and
tactics, the Chinese, the government started using then in
Tibet, and they have greatly expanded them. And they are really
using them not only in Xinjiang, but all around the country.
But let me just ask you about access to information. The
Chinese government is deliberately preventing journalists,
diplomats, and human rights monitors from accessing the region.
And then they are pushing propaganda, and we cannot verify
numbers or anything else independently.
So, can you please to that challenge? And how should the
U.S. Government and the international community best counter
this difficult situation?
Dr. Millward. Obviously, we have a big problem with
[inaudible] of information. That said, our evidence about
what is going on is voluminous, right? And so there are many,
many ways in which, even through open source materials,
[inaudible] can know generally what is going on.
I would just say that it does not really serve the People's
Republic of China's own purposes to keep journalists out,
right? They are very, very worried about reporting on what they
see as the bad stories, but there is no reporting on the good
stories, either, that is possible. And so this leads to more
distance between our peoples. It is hard to know what average
people's lives are like.
And so I guess we need to try to back off and restore those
kinds of contacts and get journalists back in. I think access
to the press should be a priority that we are pushing for in
our conversations with China. And the Olympics might be one
lever for that.
Mr. Levin. More broadly, there has been reporting that the
Biden Administration is kind of leading the G-7 from a group of
just industrial powers to a group of democracies and countries
interested in human rights. Don't you think that any solution
here has to be deeply multilateral? And what is your suggestion
to us, thinking broadly about really this gets to the whole
U.S. approach to foreign policy, to tackle a problem like this,
to take it on in a fully multilateral way. What does that even
mean? What should we be looking for? The Olympics, obviously,
is an example of a whole global event, but what are your
thoughts?
Dr. Millward. I am sorry, Representative Levin, was that
addressed at me or----
Mr. Levin. Yes, yes. Sorry. Yes, sorry for that.
Dr. Millward. Well, I mean, I referenced in my written
remarks trying to use terms such as human values and the
broader whole community looking at this. Trying to raise our
concerns to a higher supranational level I think is very
important and address these--you know, there is a reason why
they are called ``human rights,'' right? So, I think that kind
of messaging would be very, very important, as well as the
sorts of diplomatic work that Mr. Turkel mentioned earlier with
other nations as well, not simply Western democracies.
Mr. Levin. All right. Mr. Chairman, let me quickly close
with some words to Ms. Tursunay.
Ms. Tursunay, I want you to know that I see you, I hear
you. Your voice is incredibly powerful. Your story is so
compelling. I believe you. And we, as Democrats and
Republicans, as Members of the House, as Americans, will share
your story with all of our constituents and we will fight for
you and your people. We are your partners, and your courage is
an inspiration to us.
Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Malinowski. Thank you, Mr. Levin.
And why don't we translate your words?
The Interpreter. Yes, thank you.
I want to say a big thank you to you for these words. Thank
you from the bottom of my heart. And I am thankful to all of
you for all that you are doing to work on this issue.
I hope that you would please make our voices heard to the
entire world and that you will lead the world in this. The U.S.
Government has a special place in my heart, and I hope that you
will continue to help us. We see the U.S. Government, we see
the United States as very powerful in the world. And, in fact,
China is always saying that it is afraid of the United States,
that if it weren't for the United States, otherwise, it would
be able to eat up the entire world. And I so hope that you will
continue in this humanitarian way to help us. Thank you.
Mr. Malinowski. Thank you so much.
I will recognize myself now for a few questions. And I want
to come back to this theme of the surveillance State that a
number of other Members, and, of course, the witnesses, have
touched on. We have heard some stories about relatively old-
fashioned surveillance--people being forced to take in
informants in their homes, for example, based on just large
numbers of people working for the Chinese security police. But
a lot of it is quite sophisticated technologically. And I just
want to maybe ask you, Mr. Turkel, to talk about the role that
facial recognition technology plays in all of this. It is not
just cameras; it is the software behind the cameras, is that
not right?
Mr. Turkel. Yes.
Mr. Malinowski. Yes.
Mr. Turkel. Yes, this surveillance is happening both in
China and here to our fellow Americans. In China, initially,
they started with collecting voice samples, iris scans, DNA
samples, to build this giant biometric data for the Uyghurs.
And that paved the way for using integrated joint operating
platform that Human Rights Watch documented----
Mr. Malinowski. Right.
Mr. Turkel [continuing]. Reverse-engineered to collectively
run on people.
So now, if you go to any Uyghur homes, they have a QR code
on the door. So, the officials can scan and find out who lives
there, what kind of relatives at home in China and abroad, what
kind of profession that they have, the past writings, the job
history, everything----
Mr. Malinowski. Right.
Mr. Turkel [continuing]. Even the way that they engage in
religious practice.
And here at home, based on the report that HRW published in
2019, they are using telephone messages, video chat to threaten
the Uyghur Americans in the homeland here.
Mr. Malinowski. Yes.
Mr. Turkel. And also, Darren Byler, an American scholar,
went to China in 2019 and came back with a bone-chilling
report, reported that close to 1 million of China's cadres have
been implanted in the Uyghur homes, eating with them, sleeping
with them, uninvited. And there has been, also, reported sexual
violence against the Uyghur women whose husbands have been
taken to the camps. So, this has been happening----
Mr. Malinowski. Let me stop you there because I want to
move this along just a bit.
The system, as you mentioned, is exported. And this is
something that concerns all of us. It is one reason why this is
a threat to the world. But the technology is imported in many
cases.
We know that, for example, Intel and Nvidia chips help to
power the supercomputers that China uses to manage all of this
data. Oracle has provided technology to Chinese police. Hewlett
Packard owns 49 percent of H3C, a Chinese company that provides
the switches, surveillance network, control systems to law
enforcement in Xinjiang and around China.
I assume you would think it would be helpful for Congress
to go beyond just recommending voluntary due diligence on the
part of U.S. companies, but to actually prohibit the export of
technology to China that could be used in the commission of
these human rights abuses?
Mr. Turkel. Certainly. The existing laws, the existing
resources are not enough----
Mr. Malinowski. Right.
Mr. Turkel [continuing]. Not to sufficient to tackle these.
Mr. Malinowski. And we did, in fact, pass such legislation
in the House twice last year, including as part of the national
defense bill which was, strangely and mysteriously, stripped
from the final bill by the Senate Banking Committee. We are
going to try to do those again this year.
Mr. Turkel. Absolutely.
Mr. Malinowski. I will just end. I want to shift, and then
make a point about the diplomacy that is needed in the Muslim
world. And I want to ask you quickly, have you seen any
evidence of, for example, the Arab satellite networks running
documentaries, shows, news about what is happening to the
Uyghurs? Just very quickly.
Mr. Turkel. I have not seen the satellite, but they have
been using the diplomatic representatives in Beijing on CGTN to
dissipate misinformation about----
Mr. Malinowski. Yes, until that starts happening--and I
give this administration credit for beginning to raise this
issue globally in a way that we have not before--but, frankly,
particularly in the Middle East, unless this becomes part of
the priority conversation, which right now is dominated,
understandably, by issues like Iran and recognition of Israel
and the situation in Yemen, and many other issues we want them
to be raising with these countries--unless my friend, Brett
McGurk, the coordinator for the Middle East at the NSC, puts
this on his agenda when he has breakfast with the Emirati
Ambassador, it is just not going to change.
Mr. Turkel. Yes.
Mr. Malinowski. And I think this is something that we need
to be pressing with the administration as we take on this
issue.
My time is up. I see Representative Manning. So, we will go
to you. And I see Representative Omar has joined us as well.
So, let's go to Representative Manning first.
Ms. Manning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
There have been a lot of important discussions during this
hearing about the ways we can put pressure on the Chinese in an
effort to change their policy, and that certainly will take a
lot of time. I think it is important that we move forward on
those things. But, in the meanwhile, people are suffering. So,
I would like to focus on how we can help people escape this
desperate situation.
Mr. Turkel, can you tell us, are there any countries
besides the United States that are accepting Uyghur refugees?
Mr. Turkel. Yes. Sweden and Germany. Sweden made a public
statement that it will accept Uyghur refugees in the country.
Germany, after making a fateful mistake, issued a statement
that no Uyghur seeking asylum will be repatriated to China. But
most of the Western democracies, specifically Western European
countries, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, have been very
welcoming to Uyghur refugees.
Ms. Manning. And are there any things we can do to
encourage more countries to accept Uyghur refugees?
Mr. Turkel. Absolutely. The Uyghurs have not benefited from
the resettlement program that we historically have been engaged
in or practiced. So, if the Uyghurs are given a priority in the
Biden Administration's refugee resettlement program in a
significant number--we are not talking about 10-15,000, but at
least 5,000 Uyghurs who have been in hiding in the Middle
Eastern countries, or on the verge of being deported to China--
it would be a good start.
But there is something else we can do. Let's have an asylum
interview arranged for asylum applicants like Tursunay
Ziyawudun here. We have three, four camp survivors who are
waiting for an asylum hearing, asylum interviews. We are
talking about asylum pending since 2018. So, these kinds of
things can be done. So, DHS can at least schedule asylum
interviews for the pending affirmative asylum applicants in the
United States.
Ms. Manning. Is there any way to know the number of
refugees who would want to leave the country if there were
places for them to go?
Mr. Turkel. You mean China or?
Ms. Manning. Uyghurs who would like to leave China, any
idea how many?
Mr. Turkel. Congresswoman, ironically, in a genocidal
situation, the perpetrators usually kick out the population
from their ancestral homeland. Whereas, in China, they are
preventing the Uyghurs leaving. They are starting with
confiscating passports. I have not seen my mother since my law
school graduation in 2004, simple because the Chinese will not
give her a passport to leave the country. So, they cannot
leave. But we can start with the ones who are already out of
China in Central Asia, Turkey, and the other Middle Eastern
countries.
Ms. Manning. Thank you for that. And I am sorry about your
personal situation.
Mr. Turkel. Thank you.
Ms. Manning. Dr. Millward, in your written testimony, you
mentioned that the CCP is inflicting atrocities on a variety of
non-Han peoples. Are there ethnic groups other than the Uyghurs
who are experiencing repression and torture similar to the
atrocities that we are hearing about today?
Dr. Millward. Yes. We have heard examples of Kazakhs who
are another Central Asian people. I have heard of a small group
known as Dongsheng who are suffering from this. Many Muslim
groups, in my testimony I do not want to say it is not
targeting Muslim peoples; it certainly is. But others have been
pulled in as well. The Hui group, who are Chinese-speaking
Muslims in China, in Xinjiang, but also outside of Xinjiang,
are increasingly coming under this kind of pressure with
destruction of architecture, with arrests of religious
personnel, and so on. So, it is a very broad problem.
Ms. Manning. Thank you.
I would like to use the rest of my time just to say to Ms.
Tursunay, I want to thank you for sharing your horrifying story
because you have brought, this terrible treatment of the
Uyghurs, you have brought it to life for us in a way that was
so compelling that I do not think any of us who heard you today
will ever be able to forget the plight of the Uyghurs and our
moral obligation to work to end this genocide. So, thank you
very much for your courage today.
Ms. Ziyawudun. Thank you.
Mr. Malinowski. Thank you, Representative Manning.
And finally, we will go to Representative Omar for 5
minutes.
Ms. Omar. Thank you. And I just want to thank all of our
panelists for their bravery and for this great discussion.
Mr. Turkel, when we were holding 22 Uyghurs at Guantanamo,
none of whom had any known anti-American sentiment, you were
probably the most vocal advocate for their release. We also saw
in the documents leaked to The New York Times last year that
one of the things President Xi said was that he wanted to
emulate America's war on terror tactics.
Can you tell us your perspective on the relationship
between how Xi justifies the atrocities against the Uyghurs and
the global phenomenon of Islamophobia?
Mr. Turkel. No country treats the Muslims the way that
China treats the Uyghurs around the world. I mean, arguably,
there are other candidate countries, but there is nothing even
comparable. Islamophobia is a hallmark of their Chinese
policies.
And also--I have to note this--this is not the first time
that I am testifying and making this comment. I think it was a
mistake for the U.S. Government in 2002-2003 designating this
obscure organization, East Turkistan Islamic Movement, as a
terrorist organization. That paved the way for this comfortable
labeling Uyghurs as a terrorist. The U.S. State Department last
year revoked that decision, but the damage is already done.
Even, surprisingly, in the Uyghur dictionary the word
``terrorism'' or ``terrorist'' does not even exist. The
Uyghurs, probably they are the most pacified Muslims that you
can find on the face of the earth. And yet, because of the
anti-Muslim sentiment around the world, and the mistakes made
by some Western governments in Europe and here at home, the
Chinese are opportunistically using it for advancing its
propaganda campaign. It is working, unfortunately.
Ms. Omar. I really appreciate that. I have been raising
that concern, how war on terror has justified atrocities being
committed against Muslims throughout the world.
I also wanted to ask you about something I think we both
find atrocious, which is the number of U.S. companies and
individuals who are profiting off of atrocities against the
Uyghurs. Can you tell us about Erik Prince's contract in the
Uyghur region?
Mr. Turkel. Is this question directed to me or Professor--
--
Ms. Omar. Yes.
Mr. Turkel. I was somewhat dumbfounded that Erik Prince
acknowledged in his conversation with Mehdi Hasan and Al
Jazeera that he is training the police academy or the police
force. And now, it is becoming a criminal activity because we
have, as a country, added 48--the entire police department in
the Uyghur region to the Entity List, including this one
credited in the movie ``Mulan'' for their assistance.
So, it is unconscionable, and this initially started in
Hong Kong, and now, reportedly, expanded to the training police
force in the Uyghur region. So, this is something that the
Congress and law enforcement need to look into.
Ms. Omar. I really appreciate that.
And I wanted to ask Ms. Ziyawudun how she would respond to
people--and I know I could ask all the panelists this
question--but to the people who say that the atrocities that
are being committed against the Uyghurs, it is sort of
propaganda and it does not really exist; it is not something
that is happening. I get called out often, every time I speak
about the atrocities that are happening to the Uyghurs. Can you
respond to those people who do not believe what happened to you
is a real thing?
Ms. Ziyawudun. There are clear facts, and it is not just us
who know this; it is everyone in the world who knows what is
going on. These facts are strong like steel, and anyone who
says otherwise is closing their eyes. Maybe they have some sort
of relationship with China or maybe they are thinking about
something else. But no one who is thinking about humanity and
the perspective of a human would actually think this.
You know, this is something that is being enacted on
Uyghurs, on Kazakhs, on people of all ethnic backgrounds,
mostly Muslim, you know, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, all of them, although
there is not one Han person among the people being targeted in
this way. And these actions are especially being taken against
them.
So, people have closed their eyes. I cannot say much other
than that.
Ms. Omar. I know I am out of time, but I wanted to say I
agree. And I know that it is not comfortable being asked that
question, but I think it is important that we do remind people
that this is something that is real, that is happening, and
that our inability to recognize and hear people who are bearing
witness will allow for this atrocity to continue and this
genocide to take place while the whole world watches.
So, thank you for your bravery and thank you all for coming
here today and shedding light into this. I really appreciate
it.
Mr. Turkel. Thank you.
Ms. Omar. I yield back.
Mr. Malinowski. Thank you so much.
Well, unfortunately, it is time to close this hearing. I
think, often, we are happy to end long hearings, but this one--
I am sure I speak for all the Members--was particularly
powerful and affecting for us all.
I want to thank Chairman Meeks for his leadership in
bringing us together today; Ranking Member McCaul for his
partnership with us on this issue and in the defense of human
rights around the world.
And, of course, to all of our witnesses, particularly to
Tursunay, words like ``genocide'' and ``crimes against
humanity'' are very powerful, but also somewhat abstract. And
what we heard today was the personification of genocide and
crimes against humanity. We heard what it actually means to the
people who suffer it, in the words, through the voice of
somebody who managed to escape, but who left behind a country,
a family, a people who are still suffering, which she just
described.
We all, I think, recognize how difficult it is to deal with
human rights abuses in a country like China. It is a superpower
with nuclear weapons. We faced a similar challenge with the
Soviet Union for many decades. But I think we all share the
view that absolutely central to our contest with the Chinese
government is establishing, not just for the United States and
China, but for the world, the difference between right and
wrong, the difference between what is true and what is false.
That is what this contest is all about. China wants to
establish a new set of rules in the world. The Chinese
government wants to establish a new set of rules in the world
in which what we heard today is either dismissed as right or
the world simply agrees not to care. And it is extraordinarily
important to all of us, to all the people in the world, that
the United States play its part in establishing this is wrong.
So, we need an international coalition to do that. We want
to work as a committee, as a Congress, with the administration
to build that coalition and to make sure that our government
has all the legal authorities that it needs to be able to play
our part in the work to come. So, I know we are all committed
to that on a bipartisan basis.
We are grateful to all the witnesses for giving us the
information and the inspiration we need to do our work. Thank
you again so much.
The hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:38 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
APPENDIX
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STATEMENT FOR THE RECORD
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RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
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