[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
DIVERSITY INCLUDES DISABILITY:
EXPLORING INEQUITIES IN FINANCIAL
SERVICES FOR PERSONS WITH
DISABILITIES, INCLUDING THOSE
NEWLY DISABLED DUE TO
LONG-TERM COVID
=======================================================================
HYBRID HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON DIVERSITY
AND INCLUSION
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
MAY 24, 2022
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services
Serial No. 117-86
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
47-881 PDF WASHINGTON : 2022
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
MAXINE WATERS, California, Chairwoman
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York PATRICK McHENRY, North Carolina,
NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York Ranking Member
BRAD SHERMAN, California FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York BILL POSEY, Florida
DAVID SCOTT, Georgia BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
AL GREEN, Texas BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan
EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri ANN WAGNER, Missouri
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado ANDY BARR, Kentucky
JIM A. HIMES, Connecticut ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas
BILL FOSTER, Illinois FRENCH HILL, Arkansas
JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio TOM EMMER, Minnesota
JUAN VARGAS, California LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas ALEXANDER X. MOONEY, West Virginia
AL LAWSON, Florida WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio
MICHAEL SAN NICOLAS, Guam TED BUDD, North Carolina
CINDY AXNE, Iowa DAVID KUSTOFF, Tennessee
SEAN CASTEN, Illinois TREY HOLLINGSWORTH, Indiana
AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio
RITCHIE TORRES, New York JOHN ROSE, Tennessee
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin
ALMA ADAMS, North Carolina LANCE GOODEN, Texas
RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina
MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania VAN TAYLOR, Texas
ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, New York PETE SESSIONS, Texas
JESUS ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois
SYLVIA GARCIA, Texas
NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia
JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, Massachusetts
Charla Ouertatani, Staff Director
Subcommittee on Diversity and Inclusion
JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio, Chairwoman
AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts ANN WAGNER, Missouri, Ranking
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts Member
RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma
MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania TED BUDD, North Carolina
SYLVIA GARCIA, Texas, Vice Chair ANTHONY GONZALEZ, Ohio, Vice
NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia Ranking Member
JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, Massachusetts JOHN ROSE, Tennessee
LANCE GOODEN, Texas
WILLIAM TIMMONS, South Carolina
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on:
May 24, 2022................................................. 1
Appendix:
May 24, 2022................................................. 27
WITNESSES
Tuesday, May 24, 2022
Cannington, Alison, Senior Manager, Advocacy and Organizing, The
Kelsey......................................................... 4
DiBartolo, Cynthia, Founder and CEO, Tigress Financial Partners.. 6
Foley, Thomas, Executive Director, National Disability Institute. 7
Sullivan, Caroline, Executive Director, North Carolina Business
Committee for Education, Office of the Governor................ 10
Thompson, Vilissa, Fellow, The Century Foundation, & Co-Director,
Disability Economic Justice Collaborative...................... 9
APPENDIX
Prepared statements:
Cannington, Alison........................................... 28
DiBartolo, Cynthia........................................... 42
Foley, Thomas................................................ 57
Sullivan, Caroline........................................... 61
Thompson, Vilissa............................................ 67
Additional Material Submitted for the Record
Beatty, Hon. Joyce:
Written statement of the Consortium for Constituents with
Disabilities............................................... 76
Written statement of CURE SMA................................ 79
Written statement of Disability:IN........................... 81
Written statement of Paralyzed Veterans of America........... 83
Written statement of Hon. Jan Schakowsky, a Representative in
Congress from the State of Illinois, regarding her bill,
H.R. 4695, the Eleanor Smith Inclusive Home Design Act..... 90
DIVERSITY INCLUDES DISABILITY:
EXPLORING INEQUITIES IN
FINANCIAL SERVICES FOR PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES, INCLUDING
THOSE NEWLY DISABLED DUE
TO LONG-TERM COVID
----------
Tuesday, May 24, 2022
U.S. House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Diversity
and Inclusion,
Committee on Financial Services,
Washington, D.C.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 12:05 p.m., in
room 2128, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Joyce Beatty
[chairwoman of the subcommittee] presiding.
Members present: Representatives Beatty, Pressley, Lynch,
Tlaib, Garcia of Texas, Williams of Georgia, Auchincloss; Budd,
Gonzalez of Ohio, and Rose.
Ex officio present: Representative Waters.
Chairwoman Beatty. The Subcommittee on Diversity and
Inclusion will come to order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a
recess of the subcommittee at any time. Also, without
objection, members of the full Financial Services Committee who
are not members of this subcommittee are authorized to
participate in today's hearing.
Today's hearing is entitled, ``Diversity Includes
Disability: Exploring Inequities in Financial Services for
Persons with Disabilities, Including Those Newly Disabled Due
to Long-Term COVID.''
I now recognize myself for 4 minutes to give an opening
statement.
This subcommittee has been focused on examining diversity
in all its forms in the intersection with financial and
economic opportunity. I am very pleased that today's hearing
will continue that work by exploring the barriers that persons
with disability experience in seeking full economic inclusion,
employment opportunities, entrepreneurship, affordable and
accessible housing, and beyond.
Disability takes many forms. For example, it can be
physical or cognitive, apparent or invisible, present from
birth or acquired due to age, illness, or injury. While no
person's experience is exactly the same as another's, various
research reports some broad trends that are worth bearing in
mind as we hear from and question our expert witnesses today.
Nearly 1 in 4 American adults live with a disability of some
kind, and that number seems to be growing. The Bureau of Labor
Statistics estimates that 1.2 million more Americans identify
as having a disability in 2021, compared to the previous year.
As many as 7 million Americans are now dealing with long COVID
and a lot of uncertainty about their future.
Persons with disabilities are more likely to experience
unemployment, lower wages and savings, poverty, increased cost
of living, and homelessness compared to those without a
disability. As just one metric, the unemployment rate for
people with disabilities last year was 10.8 percent, over twice
that of those without, at 5.2 percent.
Persons with disabilities are also less likely to be
employed in the financial sector, and, in fact, are
disproportionately excluded from traditional banking consumers.
And as we know, the unbanked community is more at risk of
financial fraud. Thus, banking as well as housing are areas of
particular concern, as the lack of affordable housing is even
more acute for those who need accessible and integrated
housing. For instance, only 3.5 percent of U.S. homes are on
the ground floor and configured to accommodate the width of a
wheelchair.
I want to thank The Kelsey Group for mentioning in their
mission the On-Ground Housing Model. And despite the United
States Supreme Court's Olmstead decision, people with
disabilities too often have no choice but to live in congregate
institutional settings rather than integrated into their
communities.
These are some of the challenges that people with
disabilities face, and it is my goal that this hearing will
include a thoughtful discussion on policies that this committee
and this Congress can consider to build a more inclusive
economy.
I return to one of the core principles that I have used to
guide this subcommittee's work, that diversity is beneficial,
not just for individuals, but for businesses and for the
economy as a whole. I believe if we have a broad range of
perspectives and experiences, that will lead to better
decisions and better value. People with disabilities have much
to offer in this regard, and I certainly look forward to the
witness testimony and the questions from the committee. Thank
you.
I now recognize the vice ranking member of the
subcommittee, my friend and colleague from the great State of
Ohio, Mr. Anthony Gonzalez, for 5 minutes for an opening
statement.
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty. I like
your office. It is well-decorated. I like all the Ohio swag in
there.
Thank you for holding this hearing, and I thank all of our
witnesses for being here.
Americans with disabilities face challenges in their daily
lives that Americans without a disability would never even
think to consider. Our role here in Congress is to make sure
that those with a disability are treated the same under the law
and provided the tools to succeed and overcome the challenges
associated with their disabilities. As we will hear today from
our witnesses, leaders throughout industry and every level of
government understand that this is a serious challenge and make
efforts to find new solutions. Whether it is the creation of
new innovative programs to reach out to Americans to equip
disabled Americans with the skill sets to be successful, or
inclusive hiring practices, we are seeing exciting new
initiatives to create more opportunities for disabled
Americans.
That being said, there is still a tremendous amount of work
to be done. Americans with disabilities face obstacles that
require the private sector and elected officials to work
closely together to take on and find innovative solutions. Most
notably, these challenges include trouble accessing housing
that meets the needs of an individual's disabilities. With
today's very tight housing market, these challenges have only
been exacerbated and have become more costly to those with
disabilities. We know that having limited or unstable access to
housing can cause so many downstream effects, including
transportation options, job opportunities, and even personal
safety. Additionally, Americans with disabilities are more
likely to experience poverty and to be unbanked or underbanked
as a result of their disability. It is critical that we better
align our workforce to meet the needs of individuals with
disabilities and provide the proper training and pathway to
successful careers.
I am also glad to see the focus of this hearing include the
impact of COVID-19. While the pandemic has receded in many
ways, millions of Americans are still reeling from the loss of
a loved one or struggling to deal with the lasting impacts of
the disease.
Outside of the Financial Services Committee, I have been
pushing the bipartisan and bicameral Brycen Gray and Ben Price
COVID-19 Cognitive Research Act, which would direct the NSF to
fund research on the short- and long-term mental health impacts
of the disease. It is important that we find answers as to why
so many Americans are suffering from physical and mental side
effects directly caused by the virus. It is my hope that this
legislation will help us better-understand the potential
lasting impacts of this disease and how to improve mental
health outcomes.
In today's hearing, I am interested to hear how new
technology can help individuals better access financial
institutions, how the private sector can more closely work with
elected officials and advocacy groups to promote the hiring of
disabled Americans, and the shortfalls in current law that
inhibit individuals with a disability.
I again thank the chairwoman for convening this hearing. I
look forward to today's dialogue, and I thank all of our
witnesses. With that, I yield back.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you. I now recognize the Chair of
the full Financial Services Committee and thank her for joining
us today, the gentlewoman from California, Chairwoman Maxine
Waters.
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you so very much, Chairwoman
Beatty. It is unfortunate that the financial services and
housing markets do not adequately serve persons with
disabilities. These industries often put profit first, and
neglect to make accommodations even when the law requires it.
Disabled people are disproportionately at risk of being
homeless and living in poverty, and Black, indigenous, or
Latinx people are at even greater risk. Today, roughly 1.2
million more Americans identify as having a disability because
of COVID. I have drafted legislation and have encouraged the
SEC to provide investors with better information about which
companies are accommodating the disabled community. These and
other reforms are long past due.
So, I thank you so very much, Mrs. Beatty, for holding this
hearing, and I yield back the balance of my time.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you, Chairwoman Waters.
Today, we welcome the testimony of our distinguished
witnesses: Ms. Alison Cannington, senior manager, advocacy and
organizing, at The Kelsey; Ms. Cynthia DiBartolo, founder and
CEO, Tigress Financial Partners; Mr. Thomas Foley, executive
director, National Disability Institute; Ms. Vilissa Thompson,
fellow, The Century Foundation, and co-director, Disability
Economic Justice Collaborative; and Ms. Caroline Sullivan,
executive director, North Carolina Business Committee for
Education, Office of the Governor.
The witnesses are reminded that their oral testimony will
be limited to 5 minutes. You should be able to see a timer that
will indicate how much time you will have left. I would ask
that you be mindful of the timer, or hearing me vocally share
with that you your time is up, so that we can be respectful of
the witnesses and the committee members' time.
And without objection, your written statements will be made
a part of the record.
We will start with Ms. Cannington. You are now recognized
for 5 minutes to give an oral presentation of your testimony.
STATEMENT OF ALISON CANNINGTON, SENIOR MANAGER, ADVOCACY AND
ORGANIZING, THE KELSEY
Ms. Cannington. Chairwoman Beatty, Ranking Member Gonzalez,
and members of the Diversity and Inclusion Subcommittee, thank
you for inviting me to testify today. My name is Ali
Cannington, and I am a White, queer, disabled Jew who lives in
Oakland, California, and I have been organizing in the cross-
disability rights movement for over a decade. Currently, I
serve as the senior manager of advocacy and organizing at The
Kelsey, where we pioneered disability-forward housing solutions
that open doors to more affordable homes and opportunities for
everyone. We have over 240 affordable, accessible, integrated,
and inclusive homes in our pipeline, and we lead initiatives to
support market and policy conditions that can make inclusive
housing the norm. Today, I will provide an overview of how
disabled people, the most diverse and largest minority
population, are disproportionately impacted by our nation's
housing crisis.
Housing has failed to be affordable, meaning affordable to
people of all incomes, especially those who are extremely low-
income. Housing has failed to be accessible, meaning housing is
located, designed, and built to meet cross-disability access.
Housing has failed to be fully integrated, meaning housing that
does not segregate or isolate but is mixed between people with
and without disabilities, and inclusive, meaning there are
supportive communities where people can access programs and
supports they need to thrive in and around where they live.
We do have a Federal legal framework in place, including
the Fair Housing Act, which prohibited discrimination based on
race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status,
and disabilities; the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)
requiring public entities to administer services, programs, and
activities in the most integrated setting; and we have the
Olmstead Supreme Court decision, which confirmed that under
Title II of the ADA, disabled people have the right to
community integration. And yet, we have never invested in the
housing infrastructure to make these rights a reality for the
ever-growing disabled population.
Today, there are more than 61 million of us, people with
disabilities, living in the U.S., and due to COVID-19, initial
estimates said that by the end of 2021, there were an
additional 1.2 million more disabled people. The population has
and will continue to rise, and the reality is that people with
disabilities are twice as likely to live in poverty. Four-and-
a-half million people rely on SSI, and you cannot afford any
housing in any U.S. market with SSI. Fifty-five percent of all
housing discrimination is based on disability, the highest
rates of discrimination experienced across any protected class.
At minimum, 40 percent of people experiencing homelessness are
disabled. One in 2 people turning to shelters are people with
disabilities, and less than 12 percent of people with
intellectual and developmental disabilities rent or own their
own home.
Segregated housing models still prevail, and the
institutional bias is intact, and Federal and State Governments
have never invested in the commensurate supply of service-ready
integrated housing. These housing crises are disproportionately
experienced by Black, Brown, Indigenous, and immigrants with
disabilities. The Federal Government can and must invest in the
housing infrastructure so that all people with disabilities,
regardless of their backgrounds, identities, and levels of
support needs, can live in their own homes and communities.
This committee has the ability to fund, mandate, and guide
the development of needed solutions that must be co-created by
disabled people, for example, vouchers, especially mainstream
and 811 project-based rental assistance, which ensures people
with disabilities can afford housing, and that disability-
inclusive projects are built. Accessibility requirements can be
increased and coupled with funding incentives that encourage
housing to be built and operated beyond the minimum
requirements for cross-disability access. Stronger guidance can
come from the Federal Government that better aligns various
funding sources and meets and affirms the housing investments
needed to fulfill the integration mandate of the ADA. And
innovative policies and robust funding can make it more
feasible, easier, and clearer for housing developers and
municipalities to advance inclusive, accessible, integrated,
and affordable housing.
More details on both the need and the remedies are included
in my written testimony, and I look forward to exploring more
with this committee on what can be done to support a truly
disability-forward housing future.
Thank you so much.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Cannington can be found on
page 28 of the appendix.]
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you very much, Ms. Cannington.
Ms. DiBartolo, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give
an oral presentation of your testimony.
STATEMENT OF CYNTHIA DIBARTOLO, FOUNDER AND CEO, TIGRESS
FINANCIAL PARTNERS
Ms. DiBartolo. Thank you. Good day, Chairwoman Beatty,
Ranking Member Wagner, Chairwoman Waters, Vice Ranking Member
Gonzalez, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank
you for the opportunity to testify today. I commend the members
of the subcommittee for your collective focus on disability,
diversity, equality, and inclusion at U.S. financial
institutions and corporate America, more broadly.
Disability is an underdeveloped area of DEI, and we have an
obligation to give a voice to those voiceless individuals. I
come before you as an experienced financial services
professional, the founder and CEO of Tigress Financial
Partners, the nation's only disabled- and woman-owned financial
services firm, the CEO of Ryan Financial Services from the only
woman-owned prime broker, the Chair of the Financial Services
Committee of the Rainbow PUSH Coalition under the appointment
of Reverend Jesse Jackson, and as an individual who is
permanently disabled. I hope that my testimony will yield
insight on the glaring issues of the gross inequalities facing
the disabled.
We must address the realities with respect to the
acceleration of the intersectionality of disability and other
marginalized groups, as well as the real and perceived barriers
to economic sustainability and inclusion in the mainstream
workforce, along with the challenges faced by disabled
entrepreneurs in accessing capital, together with a patent lack
of transparent and uniform disability and diversity data and
reporting in both the private and public sectors. Each of these
disparities, whether individually or collectively, deny the
disabled their dignity to include their participation in the
workforce, hold them hostage to a life of poverty, and impair
their overall quality of life.
I speak from personal experience. In 2011, I founded
Tigress Financial Partners after working in corporate America
for more than 25 years, where I served as an attorney, a
compliance director, and a risk management director at some of
the largest global banks. At the height of my career, I was
diagnosed with head and neck cancer, and I was left severely
disabled. I had my tongue reconstructed from parts of my body
using the artery, veins, and muscles from both my arms, and I
learned to speak again over the course of several years.
However, my articulation is much more deliberate and
intentional, and I have limited endurance. Cancer not only took
my tongue, but it took my entire career.
Fueled with my passion to still work in financial services,
I went to FINRA and the SEC to start the nation's first
disabled- and woman-owned financial services firm. I quickly
discovered that access to capital with debt or equity was
nearly nonexistent, but for people with disabilities, the
barriers to entrepreneurship were more acute and difficult to
overcome. Countless individuals like me were labeled disabled
entrepreneurs and fell outside the mainstream of what an
entrepreneur is defined as by society. Bottom line, ableism was
the common barrier I faced.
I made a tactical journey, and built my firm to more than
60 individuals, of whom 80 percent are diverse: African
American; Hispanic; Asian; Indian; women; and disabled. In
2011, we made history by becoming the very first woman-owned
and disabled New York Stock Exchange member and floor broker in
The Big Board's 229-year history. So, it is important to
recognize that firms like Tigress can compete with any
formidable firm in financial services. We just happen to draw
from a different and diverse pool of talent.
People with disabilities are truly the missing link in this
discussion regarding diversity and diversity of thought. In
order to transform the economic system, we need to meet the
needs of 61 million people with disabilities and the newly
disabled individuals who are suffering from long-term COVID. We
have to pivot from a broken system which precludes that
financial stability, and seek ways to promote entrepreneurship.
In doing so, disabled people should be allowed to operate in
parallel with both a disability service system and the business
system.
Let me be clear. The gross inequalities I speak of today
are not rooted in disabled individuals, but rather, they are
rooted in the handicap economic resources, the compulsive
disorder our society has with stereotyping ableism, a willful
blindness to the lack of uniform transparent data, and the
disordered allocation of power.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. DiBartolo can be found on
page 42 of the appendix.]
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you very much not only for your
testimony, but also for sharing your story. And let me just
say, as a cerebral brainstem stroke survivor, with months of
speech therapy, your articulation was amazing. So, we thank you
again.
Mr. Foley, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give an
oral presentation of your testimony. Mr. Foley, I will give you
a 1-minute alert, if that will be helpful to you, and we won't
take away from your time when I interrupt you.
Mr. Foley. Thank you, ma'am. That would be great.
STATEMENT OF THOMAS FOLEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL
DISABILITY INSTITUTE
Mr. Foley. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty, Ranking Member
Gonzalez, and distinguished members of the committee. I really
appreciate the opportunity to be here today. My name is Thomas
Foley. I am the executive director of the National Disability
Institute. For 17 years, we have worked exclusively on issues
of financial and economic inclusion for people with
disabilities, but I am also here today as a person who is blind
and has been on SSI.
I will never forget as a freshman in college, a friend of
mine telling me about this $2,000 asset limit, and I thought
she was kidding. I had no idea why people didn't want me to
save. I had the same goals and expectations as everyone else. I
wanted a job that led to a career, a family, retirement
savings, I wanted to buy a house. I wanted a Golden Retriever.
I wanted the American Dream. But how was I going to do that
without saving? That $2,000 asset limit has not changed since I
was a freshman in college, and that was a while ago. Simply
put, asset limits discourage savings, working, and hope. We
support the SSI Savings Penalty Elimination Act as a first step
to changing the disability economic narrative.
Many other issues complicate access to financial services
for people with disabilities. I was lucky. When I was a
sophomore in high school, I was able to take a financial
education class, and it changed my life. However, that is the
exception rather than the rule for most people with
disabilities. Even standard financial education for people with
disabilities or a standard financial education leaves out
critical disability issues that people need to know about,
things like asset limits, work incentives, ABLE accounts,
digital accessibility considerations, and the $17,000 a year in
extra costs related to a disability that most people with
disabilities incur every single year.
People with disabilities are simply not often seen as a
group that needs to be financially served. We see the
predictable results of this in many ways. The unbanked rate, as
someone mentioned, for people with disabilities is 3 times
higher than the general population, 16.2 percent versus 4.5
percent, according to FDIC data. Even higher unbanked rates are
observed when we look at the intersection of race, ethnicity,
and disability. Access to bank credit follows a similar
pattern. People with disabilities are 1.7 times more likely to
be refused credit when they ask for it.
When we look at net worth, average household net worth,
again, according to 2019 FDIC data, average household net worth
is about $84,000. Households with a disabled householder are
about $14,400, and a household with a Black and disabled
householder is $1,282 in net worth. Not surprisingly, many
people turn to self-employment. There is additional flexibility
and opportunity for many people. Unfortunately, much or little
disability self-employment data is captured by any of our big
surveys through the Federal Reserve System or through the
Census. Without data, disability is invisible, and it becomes
much more difficult to develop targeted programs to reach this
important group of people.
At the National Disability Institute, we support disability
lending disclosures under Section 1071 of the Dodd-Frank Act,
adding the ADA definition of disability to the Equal Credit
Opportunity Act (ECOA), and ensuring that disability becomes a
measurable activity for the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA).
Banks, financial institutions, and the emerging fintech
industry need to do more targeted actions to include people
with disabilities in the communities they serve. There is a
need to develop trust, particularly at the intersection of
race, ethnicity, and disability. Be proactive and provide--
Chairwoman Beatty. Mr. Foley, you have about 30 seconds
left.
Mr. Foley. Thank you--affordable, accessible services and
tools to people with disabilities.
Members of the committee, I started this testimony with my
American Dream. Well, I got that job, bought a house, even got
the Golden Retriever, and I put 2\1/2\ kids through college. I
am not particularly special. People do not need to change,
systems do, and with your help today, we can begin to change
those systems and increase economic opportunity for all people
with disabilities.
Thank you for the opportunity.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Foley can be found on page
57 of the appendix.]
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you so much for your testimony,
Mr. Foley.
Ms. Thompson, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to give
an oral presentation of your testimony.
STATEMENT OF VILISSA THOMPSON, FELLOW, THE CENTURY FOUNDATION,
& CO-DIRECTOR, DISABILITY ECONOMIC JUSTICE COLLABORATIVE
Ms. Thompson. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty, Chairwoman
Waters, Ranking Member Wagner, and members of the subcommittee
for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Vilissa
Thompson, and I am a Fellow at the Century Foundation.
It is vital not only to understand the economic barriers
faced by disabled Americans, but to apply an intersectional
lens to ensure that policies and reforms meant to address those
barriers are effective at doing so for all disabled people, not
just the most privileged. Thus, for my testimony, I want to
bring these issues to life by discussing them through the lens
of a Black, disabled young adult I will name, ``Keisha.'' It is
with this background that I will share three main points today,
and I refer the committee to my written testimony for further
details.
First, who exactly is a part of this community? The
community is comprised of 61 million people, 1 in 4 adults.
This number is steadily climbing due to the pandemic, the mass-
disabling event of our time. The Native community has the
highest prevalence of disability, and women make up 1 of every
4 disabled people. Disability can be a significant factor in
economic insecurity and can be a factor in whether a person
thrives in a country where productivity and one's ability to
contribute to the labor force are prioritized more than who
they are as a person.
This brings me to my second point, which is the economic
barriers disabled people face. There are several factors that
undermine the economic security of this community. With my
limited time, I will touch on a few, the first being the loss
of services and supports in young adulthood.
Young adulthood should be an exciting time, as Keisha
prepares to finish high school and get her first job. However,
disabled young adults understand that their concerns for
independence and self-sufficiency are tied to their disability
when the supports that they relied on disappear as adults. I
have more of this in my written testimony, but I wanted to
highlight the realities with this demographic to insufficient
affordable, accessible housing. for young disabled adults like
Keisha, who are looking to rent or buy for the first time, the
conditions of the market are incredibly discouraging. For
example, just 5 percent of federally-funded affordable housing
is required to be accessible for those with mobility
disabilities.
My third point is the added cost of living with a
disability, better known as the, ``crip tax.'' Living with a
disability is costly. Disabled people are faced with paying
extraordinary rates for services, et cetera, that are needed to
make their lives easier and accessible. Households with a
disabled adult need 20 percent more income to achieve the same
standard of living as non-disabled households.
My fourth concerns barriers to employment. A young disabled
adult like Keisha enters a workforce that has never fully
considered disabled people as skilled or talented workers. For
instance, the wage gap, when factoring in race, Black disabled
people working full time were paid just 6 to 8 cents on average
for every dollar paid to White non-disabled workers. So even if
Keisha is able to find full-time work, she can expect to be
paid significantly less than her White non-disabled peers.
And my fifth and final point, when it comes to the
barriers, is outdated Social Security disability programs. I
won't go into great detail about Social Security because it is
not within this committee's jurisdiction, but there are
outdated rules in our disability programs that need to be
addressed, one being the assets limits, $2,000 for individuals
and $3,000 for couples, that haven't been updated since 1989.
Reforming these asset limits has the backing of policymakers
and stakeholders like JPMorgan Chase.
Turning to my last and final point for this testimony,
which is the economic power of the disabled community if
changes are made, removing barriers to economic security for
disabled people will not only reduce poverty and hardship, it
will unlock the significant untapped economic power of this
community. Achieving economic justice for disabled people will
require applying a disability lens across the entire economic
agenda. Several of the bills under review by this committee
would take important steps to remove barriers to economic
security and independence for disabled people like Keisha.
And finally, although I used Keisha to humanize the facts I
shared, I want to be perfectly clear that what happens to
disabled people is not hypothetical. In fact, I myself have
faced many of the disparities I highlighted. I was this young,
Black, disabled adult trying to navigate systems that have
roadblocks to impede my success. This data is not abstract to
me, it is personal, as it is for millions of disabled people.
The systemic and societal realities that disabled people,
particularly those of color, endure must not be ignored when we
discuss the economic barriers that impact our ability to not
just survive, but thrive.
Thank you for my time.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Thompson can be found on
page 67 of the appendix.]
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you very much, Ms. Thompson, for
your testimony and for sharing Keisha's story.
Our next witness will be Ms. Sullivan, and you are now
recognized for 5 minutes to give an oral presentation of your
testimony.
STATEMENT OF CAROLINE SULLIVAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NORTH
CAROLINA BUSINESS COMMITTEE FOR EDUCATION, OFFICE OF THE
GOVERNOR
Ms. Sullivan. Good afternoon, Chairwoman Waters, Chairwoman
Beatty, Ranking Member Wagner, and members of the Diversity and
Inclusion Subcommittee. My name is Caroline Sullivan, and I am
the executive director of the North Carolina Business Committee
for Education, the business-led education and workforce
nonprofit in the Office of the Governor. And I am honored to
have been invited by Congressman McHenry from North Carolina to
talk about a program that addresses the barriers to employment
for individuals with autism spectrum disorder.
My organization focuses on work-based learning, and we
believe that these experiences are critical for students and
young adults. Yet, many programs such as internships and
apprenticeships do not include individuals with disabilities.
And this is true for those who have the education and skills
needed to do the job, but have faced barriers in getting and
keeping that job because they are autistic.
The number of autistic 18-year-olds transitioning from high
school to adulthood is expected to increase to 1 in 44 by 2028.
Yet, compared to other developmental disabilities, young adults
with autism have the lowest participation in paid employment.
There is an urgent need to develop programs for competitive
employment for autistic adults. The interview process and group
dynamics of jobs demand high levels of social and communication
skills that individuals with autism find difficult. And many
employers want to hire autistic team members, but they don't
know how to support them for success.
In 2018, we designed a paid internship, on-the-job training
program, working with the North Carolina Division of Vocational
Rehabilitation and other partners to identify supports and help
to align systems. Linking North Carolina with Innovative
Talent, or LiNC-IT, makes the connections between employers,
higher education, and government services to provide
opportunities for early career autistic professionals and a
talented source of workers for North Carolina employers.
There are 71 individuals who have completed or are
currently working in LiNC-IT internships. More than 90 percent
of participants who have completed the program are now in full-
time positions, averaging above the median starting wage in the
State, many in jobs that pay substantially higher wages, and
prior to participation in the program, all were either
underemployed or unemployed.
We are fortunate that North Carolina is a leader in
supporting individuals with autism. Thanks to the UNC TEACCH
Autism Center, which started 50 years ago, and the Autism
Society of North Carolina, we have service providers with
expertise in supporting individuals with autism in the
workplace. They provide our job coaching, and the services are
paid through voc rehab. The team works with the employer to
identify positions and pre-screens potential interns who have
the interest and skills needed for the job. The intern and
employer are supported during the interview process, and the
job coach works with the intern and the manager during
orientation and throughout the internship. They develop
accommodations for the intern and help with wraparound services
like transportation.
At its core, LiNC-IT is focused on system change. We work
with employers to help develop online training for employers to
train every team member on how to support their coworkers with
autism. But true inclusion is not just getting that first job.
It is also helping team members advance in their careers. Last
year, one of our first LiNC-IT interns, who now serves on the
LiNC-IT Collaborative, asked if we could develop a program to
support career advancement. In April, Governor Cooper announced
the Career Advancement Resources for Employees on the Spectrum
initiative to provide eligible State employees with up to 5
hours of career coaching. We hope this is a model for other
employers to support their neurodiverse colleagues. We have
worked with 31 large and small employers across numerous
sectors, including the financial services industry. Fidelity
Investments and Credit Suisse have been strong partners. We
currently are working to expand into State Government in five
different departments.
The staggering unemployment rate for autistic adults is not
just a barrier to financial stability for them, but a missed
opportunity for employers to find great employees. As the
mother of a child on the spectrum, I am proud to work in a
State that supports and values individuals with autism. I
encourage all public and private employers to develop programs
like LiNC-IT, and we are happy to serve as a resource.
Thank you very much for the opportunity, and I look forward
to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Sullivan can be found on
page 61 of the appendix.]
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you so much for your testimony,
and also for highlighting autism. I want to let you know that
we have actively participated, and I was the keynote speaker
for the 16th Annual Tools for Transformation of Autism. So,
again, thank you for highlighting that.
I now recognize myself for 5 minutes of questions.
My first question is on workforce challenges. Ms.
DiBartolo, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that over
700,000 persons with a disability have chosen to be--and we
have heard this from many of you--entrepreneurs, largely as a
result of barriers to traditional employment. As a founder of
the first and only disabled female-owned New York Stock
Exchange financial services firm, can you give us one thing
that this committee should be doing differently?
Ms. DiBartolo. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty. As the Founder
and CEO of the first and only disabled woman-owned firm, I can
unequivocally state that the barriers to obtaining financing
for disabled entrepreneurs are massive. I was armed with
decades of experience in banking and a law degree, specialized
in Federal securities, and yet I struggled to find the path to
capital once I was labeled a disabled entrepreneur. Imagine, if
it was difficult for me, given my experience and education, how
could any disabled entrepreneur navigate this incredible slope?
In the beginning, I could not secure a single investor. I was
told that I was unbankable. I discovered that access to
capital, both debt and equity, was nearly nonexistent if you
were disabled.
For people with disabilities, the barriers to
entrepreneurship are huge and they are difficult to overcome,
including access to benefits, startup capital, and credit.
Chairwoman Beatty. Okay. I am going to stop you there, and
I am going to take that one thing is access to capital, only
because I have three or four more questions I am going to try
to get to, but thank you.
Ms. Cannington, in 1999, the Supreme Court ruled that
unjustified segregation of people with disabilities is illegal
according to Title II of the ADA. Now, it is requiring local
and State jurisdictions to eliminate unnecessary segregation,
including in institutional facilities, to ensure that they
receive services in the most integrated setting possible. Do
States and local governments currently track what share of
their housing stock is accessible and whether such stock is
integrated? This committee really believes in transparency and
accountability.
Ms. Cannington. Thank you so much for that question, Madam
Chairwoman. The short answer is no.
Chairwoman Beatty. Okay.
Ms. Cannington. And a majority no. I do want to highlight,
though, that due to a major lawsuit against the City of Los
Angeles, L.A. has developed systems to track which housing is
accessible and affordable. But there are still real
inconsistencies across-the-board in terms of tracking
accessible units as well as integrated units.
Chairwoman Beatty. And I must say thank you, because you
have just given us a reason that we can look at that on the
Federal level.
Mr. Foley, there are various reports that financial
services apps and banking websites are not accessible for
people with disabilities. For example, I wasn't really familiar
with this CAPTCHA and alt text, the overreliance on the mouse
to navigate the website. I miss it every time when they tell me
to find a bridge. But for those who are visually impaired, how
might we keep financial services providers accountable? When
you cross the street, you will hear beeps for those who are
visually impaired. Any insight you can give us in 30 seconds?
Mr. Foley. Sure. Financial services providers need to build
accessibility and, from the beginning, make it part of a
regular review process, use people with disabilities to test
the products to make sure it works for them, and tie it to
people's compensation and ability to move forward in the
organization.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you, and hopefully I can get this
question in, and it is an interesting topic. Congresswoman
Madeleine Dean, who is not able to join us, has a bill that is
called the Private Loan Disability Discharge Act. And I wanted
to bring this up because student loans continue to act as an
impediment to building wealth and decades-long burdens, so one
of the things we are looking at for dealing with that is
discharging private education loans, or to the co-sponsors, in
case of a permanent disability or the borrower's death. Would
you all support that? And that is a yes or no from everyone.
And we will start with you, Mr. Foley.
Mr. Foley. Yes.
Chairwoman Beatty. Ms. DiBartolo?
Ms. DiBartolo. Absolutely.
Chairwoman Beatty. Ms. Cannington?
Ms. Cannington. Absolutely.
Chairwoman Beatty. Ms. Sullivan?
Ms. Sullivan. Yes.
Chairwoman Beatty. And Ms. Thompson?
Ms. Thompson. Yes.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you very much. Unfortunately, my
time is up.
I will now recognize the distinguished vice ranking member,
Congressman Gonzalez, for 5 minutes of questions.
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty, for
holding today's hearing, and thank you to our witnesses for
your testimony.
Ms. DiBartolo, I want to start with you. I have always had
a particular admiration for successful entrepreneurs. And your
story, in particular, is just so powerful, and the passion with
which you tell it is inspiring in so many ways, so I want to
commend you and thank you for being here, but also just for
having such incredible tenacity.
I want to dive a little deeper on that access to capital
point, because I think whenever you are talking about
marginalized communities, no matter what community it is, I
think this access to capital point is just enormously critical,
maybe the most important thing. And there are some folks in
this world who can snap their fingers and acquire capital at
almost zero rates and on unbelievable terms, and then there are
others who struggle to access even one cent.
And so, I want to hear more from you. How, specifically,
did you overcome that? What process did you use? How did you
get your first dollars in the door, whether it was on the debt
or equity side, and what were those specific barriers? Just
dive deep, if you could.
Ms. DiBartolo. Thank you, Congressman. Truthfully, my own
resilience is what got me that. Disabled people have an
unbelievable amount of resilience. They don't just bounce back,
they bounce back higher. I could not get the capital, so I
liquidated my own assets, literally liquidated everything I
could and bet on myself because I was determined to build a
firm that could stand as an example on Wall Street that
disabled individuals are part of the diversity and inclusion
initiatives that we are undertaking, and they bring value, not
just within an organization, but within the community. That is
how my company became more successful.
It is funny to state that the same people who told me no
early on, and called me an unbankable CEO to my face, came
knocking at the door after I gained some degree of success,
asking if they could invest or loan me capital. But I had to go
quite a long time figuring this out on my own, and I am going
to humbly say there was one point where I almost had to sell my
own engagement ring to make payroll.
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Wow. Incredible. So, it's fair to say
the venture capital community, the traditional banking
community wanted nothing to do with you or your company, and
you had to literally sell almost every asset you have just to
get off the ground?
Ms. DiBartolo. Correct. Just a startup, that is right,
until they could measure some degree of success.
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Yes. And I am sure it felt good to
see those same people come back and knock on your door and beg
you to take their capital at some point. It is just an
incredible story. Thank you for sharing that.
Ms. Sullivan, I want to switch to you and commend you for
the incredible work that you are doing in North Carolina, which
is really exciting to see. When you are talking to employers,
what are the biggest barriers that you face about potentially
bringing on individuals with autism? And how do you equip the
employers with the skills to be successful in hiring an
individual with autism spectrum disorder?
Ms. Sullivan. When we first talked to employers, we talked
about LiNC-IT as a talent acquisition strategy for them. A
great number of folks said they are missing because they don't
have ways to support individuals who are neurodiverse. And what
LiNC-IT really just does is aligns the systems, right? We talk
with employers to get them interested, and they identify a
manager who wants to be involved in the program. It is not a
hiring program. It is a work-based learning program, but almost
every single one of our interns gets hired.
And what we do is we work with them all through the
process. Many individuals with autism have a very hard time
with interviews, for example, because you are not asking what
you know. You are asking other things that really aren't
germane to the job. Onboarding is very difficult, and as I
said, the social cues in the workplace are hard, and so our
LiNC-IT interns have job coaches with them the whole time. But
what we found is the support is intense in the beginning, and
then it really does wane after a while. Once our participants
get sort of situated into their jobs, they do very, very well.
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Great. Thank you. I see my time is
up. Thank you again, Chairwoman Beatty. And thank you to the
witnesses. I yield back.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you. The gentlewoman from
Massachusetts, Ms. Pressley, who is also the Vice Chair of our
Subcommittee on Consumer Protection and Financial Institutions,
is now recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Pressley. Madam Chairwoman, thank you for your
intentional and inclusive leadership. This is a very important
hearing.
For too long, the status quo has really failed the
disability community and subjected our disabled neighbors
really to a second-class standard of living. Today, we have
certainly heard many compelling facts and figures which do
underscore the complexities of navigating this fundamentally
flawed system, particularly for our neighbors and our loved
ones in the disability community. But policy ultimately is
about people. It is not a document on a shelf. It is the lived
reality in our communities. Policy dictates quite literally who
lives, who dies, and who thrives.
I want to talk about one of my constituents from Cambridge,
whom we will call Mr. James. And Mr. James, say he develops
long COVID. Conservative estimates put that at a community of
about 8 million right now. So, he develops long COVID like
millions of others as a result of this ongoing pandemic. He
experiences symptoms like chronic fatigue syndrome, cognitive
dysfunction, and then he begins to struggle at his current job.
Ms. Thompson, how have individuals like Mr. James, with
long COVID, struggled to remain in the workforce, and what
barriers do they face as a result of long-term symptoms? What
might Mr. James be experiencing?
Ms. Thompson. Thank you, Congresswoman Pressley. I want to
start off and say that in July 2021, the Biden Administration
released a guidance package announcing that long COVID may be a
disability under the ADA. Thus, under the ADA, it requires that
employers make reasonable accommodations for disabled people.
However, the standard has not been a smooth transition for
those with long COVID because employers haven't or won't make
certain adjustments requested or because some individuals may
not be able to continue in the position due to the illness.
Some of the accommodation that can be worked is allowing
people to work from home, which offers flexibility around
schedules, adjusting work styles and dress codes, which is
easier for COVID long-haulers, and be able to sit or to stand
in case someone works in a shop, have an office nap room, a
quiet area for rest, storage areas for medications, temporary
shift and responsibilities. We have even seen the Office of
Disability Employment Policy release some helpful information
for employers with long COVID and their employees as to how to
provide these accommodations to make the processes much
smoother.
Ms. Pressley. Okay. Thank you. So, let us say Mr. James can
no longer work and turns to our disability safety net in order
to make ends meet by applying for Supplemental Security Income
(SSI). Ms. Thompson, yes or no, would Mr. James be receiving
enough from SSI to make ends meet in a district like mine or to
live above the Federal poverty line?
Ms. Thompson. No.
Ms. Pressley. And would SSI allow Mr. James to have
emergency savings, say, more than $2,000?
Ms. Thompson. No, not with the current limit.
Ms. Pressley. Okay. To be clear, Mr. James develops long
COVID, his symptoms render him unable to work, and he accesses
SSI but must now live below the poverty line due to asset caps
that prohibit him from saving even a modest amount for
emergencies, let alone to rent a safe and healthy home, because
then his SSI benefits would be penalized. I agree with what Mr.
Foley said earlier. People don't need to change, the systems
do.
And if Mr. James' disability requires him to move to a
wheelchair-accessible home, Ms. Thompson, what are the
challenges that Mr. James will face in trying to find an
accessible home in today's housing market in, say, Cambridge,
in my district?
Ms. Thompson. As a fellow wheelchair user, I understand
this issue completely. While the supply of affordable housing
that is developed for individuals with families eligible for
the Housing Choice Voucher Program affordable housing, the
nation's main affordable housing assistance programs, is wholly
inadequate, this is where it became worse for those of us due
to how little affordable housing in the U.S. is accessible to
disabled people. And what is left about a recourse with
affordability and accessibility to housing and it being out of
reach, disabled people make up roughly half of the people in
this country who are forced to turn to homeless shelters that
keep a roof over their head.
Ms. Pressley. So, the system is fundamentally broken, and
as you said earlier, Ms. Thompson, we need to legislate in a
way that is intersectional.
Ms. Thompson. Yes.
Ms. Pressley. And the system is not going to change until
we recognize that disability rights are human rights, that
every policy is a disability policy. And it won't change until
we legislate the healing and dignity that the disability
community deserves.
I want to request unanimous consent to submit into the
record a report published today by the Center for American
Progress, entitled, ``Removing Obstacles for Disabled
Workers,'' which would strengthen the U.S. labor market. And
finally, to those who are visually-impaired and blind, my
apologies for not staying at the top of this. I am a Black
woman with a bald head wearing a gray top and hoop earrings.
Thank you.
Chairwoman Beatty. Without objection, it is so ordered.
And thank you so much, Congresswoman Pressley.
The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Rose, is now recognized for 5
minutes.
Mr. Rose. Tennessee, but we helped found Texas, so I will
take credit for that, too. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty. And
thank you Vice Ranking Member--
Chairwoman Beatty. And thank you, Mr. Rose. I believe I did
not say Tennessee, so that is Congressman Rose from Tennessee.
Thank you.
Mr. Rose. Right, I think you said, ``Texas.'' At least,
that is what I heard, but I will take credit for Texas, too.
Chairwoman Beatty. Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Rose. As a proud Tennessean, we helped get them
started. Thank you for holding this hearing, and as our time is
limited, I want to dive right in.
Ms. DiBartolo, you have a truly inspiring story, and I want
to congratulate you on all of your success. I will note that
there are always challenges for entrepreneurs, and I am sure
from your vast experience, you know that. Your story is not
unlike many starting entrepreneurs when they are trying to find
capital, and I am sure you faced unique challenges, and I'm so
very inspired by your story. The challenges that you faced,
both as a starting entrepreneur and with a disability, the
disabilities that you are working with, makes me think about
the concerns I always have when we are burdening business and
industry with new regulations. And so, I am interested in
hearing from you because of your decades of experience on Wall
Street. Are there any rules and regulations that could be, let
us say, right-sized or tailored to allow firms like yours to
flourish?
Ms. DiBartolo. Thank you, Congressman. There are indeed
changes that can be made and adopted in order to ensure that we
not only foster disabled entrepreneurs and disabled businesses,
but that we become more inclusive of a disabled workforce. And
I think that really starts with disclosure of data both in the
public and private sector, some sort of mandatory reporting,
because one thing we know is that what does not get measured,
does not get managed. And there is just a myriad of data that
is cut all different ways in a non-uniform way, and it is not
allowing us, either in the private or public sector, to
leverage that data effectively so that we can make that change.
One of the things that we have learned is that most
disabilities are invisible disabilities. How often I have heard
somebody say, ``You don't look disabled to me?'' Well, that is
because the majority of disabilities contended with today are
invisible. Guess what? So is the data, and that is something we
need to change and change very quickly if we are to change the
trajectory of the course of the disabled entrepreneur to allow
disabled individuals to be included in the workforce and
actually have prosperous, thriving careers.
Mr. Rose. Thank you. And your answer, I think, leads me to
my next comment and question. Millions of adults with
disabilities often find themselves in a difficult predicament,
and they are entitled to seek a reasonable accommodation from
their employer, but many individuals refrain from disclosing
their disabled status.
And so, I have a question for Ms. Sullivan. Could you
discuss why individuals may not disclose their particular
disability when applying for jobs?
Ms. Sullivan. Many advocates in the autism community share
that they are worried about being discriminated against, so
there is that barrier. They are worried they will be treated
differently or not have the same opportunity as neurotypical
workers. Our program is set up so that disclosure is there. We
leverage voc rehab services, so the participant has to have a
diagnosis of autism. We find that for our interns in the
companies that we work with, this is helpful, because then they
know how to accommodate and set up the interim for success, and
that is helpful. I will also say that many of our participants,
especially some of our early interns who now have full-time
jobs, have really become advocates for the program and for
neurodiversity in the workplace.
Mr. Rose. Thank you. I see that my time is about to expire,
Chairwoman Beatty, so I yield back.
Chairwoman Beatty. If the gentleman from Tennessee would
like an additional 20 seconds for my interruption, I will give
it to him.
Mr. Rose. That is quite all right. I am not sure I could do
much more than ask a question that couldn't be answered. Thank
you, though.
Chairwoman Beatty. You are quite welcome. The gentleman
from Massachusetts, Mr. Lynch, who is also the Chair of our
Task Force on Financial Technology, is now recognized for 5
minutes.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman, and I
really appreciate the subject matter of this hearing.
I think we all struggle with this in our districts, and I
do particularly. Mr. Foley, I have a situation where I have
some major housing developments, over 1,000 units in my
district where we are starting to knock them down and rebuild
them in a new and different way. And yet, it doesn't seem like
there is an existing policy within our public housing
authorities that prioritizes the ability of handicapped
individuals to live in comfort and also have access to job
training opportunities.
We are trying this now, but it feels like a one-off. We are
trying to do that. We are bringing in some job training firms,
and some nonprofits to come in and try to work with our
seniors. But to be honest with you, for a very long time I have
had calls from handicapped individuals who have begged me to
try to get them into first-floor units so they can have some
level of mobility. And you wouldn't think that it would take an
Act of Congress or an act of a Member of Congress to try to get
a public housing authority to make that small accommodation.
I know that you are a champion of the cause of handicapped
individuals, and I wonder if you have seen this gap between
what should be a real priority for our housing authorities to
sort of link up that job training opportunity with these
individual handicapped households--is that something that you
see across-the-board, and is it improving at all?
Mr. Foley. Thank you, Representative. First of all, I
commend you for putting this program in place. Obviously, we
have heard today about the lack of access to affordable
accessible housing. We have definitely seen this issue across
the country, a lack of housing plus a lack of employment
opportunities, plus a lack of employment programs. You multiply
three fractions, and you get a smaller number.
But I think what you are describing provides an
opportunity, almost a pilot to show what could be done, because
we know in the end that people with disabilities want to work,
can work, and once they do work, make excellent employees. And
providing accessible, affordable, safe housing sort of provides
that groundwork, that foundation to be able to look at
employment in a whole new way.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you. One of my local priority projects
from the last Appropriations bill is 40 units of housing for
people who are disabled by virtue of drug addiction. And I have
found that in my district, the needs of that population are far
different than someone who has a disability in terms of their
mobility. They have to be on the first floor or handicap rents.
And it has been a real struggle to try to make sure that we
create housing for people with drug addiction but also make
sure that the services are plugged in. We are trying to help
women coming out of prison who might have custody of children.
And I wonder if you are seeing any programs in other States
that might be an example of that, from which we could borrow?
Mr. Foley. Again, I applaud the effort to reach so many
different types of people in the disability community. I think
the old joke is if you have met one person with a disability,
you have met one person with a disability. I am not the
strongest expert on some of the programs, particularly around
substance abuse, so I will yield my time if someone else could
help out with that question.
Mr. Lynch. I think my time has just about expired. I do
appreciate it. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. This is a very
important hearing, and I want to thank all of our witnesses for
trying to help the committee with its work. Thank you.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you, Mr. Lynch.
The gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Timmons, is now
recognized for 5 minutes.
[No response.]
Chairwoman Beatty. Mr. Gonzalez, should I move on?
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Yes, I was just about to say I don't
see Mr. Timmons, so feel free to move on.
Chairwoman Beatty. And we will come back if he enters the
screen.
Mr. Gonzalez of Ohio. Okay.
Chairwoman Beatty. The gentlewoman from Michigan, Ms.
Tlaib, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much, Chairwoman Beatty, for
holding this really important hearing.
As everyone testified, housing is foundational to many of
our neighbors, particularly for many of our neighbors living
with disabilities. As many of you have heard, I represent the
48217 ZIP Code in Michigan's 13th Congressional District, which
is one of the most polluted ZIP Codes in the entire country. It
is sandwiched between one of the largest freeways and the only
oil petroleum refinery in the State. The toxic air many of my
residents breathe has directly contributed to much of the
highest rates of cancer and asthma in the State, and for many
of us, this is the definition of a frontline community. And
over the past 3 decades, Madam Chairwoman, low-income Americans
have become increasingly concentrated in poor neighborhoods
like 48217.
We know that individuals with disabilities experience
greater levels of poverty, as we heard today, and lower levels
of wealth than those without disabilities, requiring an average
of an additional $17,000 per year to obtain the same standard
of living as many of us. Meanwhile, individuals with
disabilities are underemployed and underpaid, as, again, many
have testified, which means that the devastating impacts of our
housing affordability crisis are falling even heavier on those
living with disabilities. For me, environmental justice is
disability justice, and economic justice is disability justice.
Ms. Cannington, when it comes to purchasing a home, many
individuals with disabilities are underbanked or credit-
invisible. I know folks talked about capital and so forth, but
really, is there anything that we could be doing on our end to
improve the access to credit and opportunities to purchase a
home and build wealth?
Ms. Cannington. Thank you so much for this question,
Congresswoman. I want to start, and say that rather than just
look at income credit of the individual, can a mortgage company
look at an individual story? For example, an individual may be
someone who had a full-time job with a high salary and had an
accident and now they are on SSDI. Does the mortgage company
understand the person's story?
SSI, SSDI is a stable income source, whether the person has
a settlement agreement or other sources of down payment
assistance. If the mortgage company is solely focused on
employment income, getting a loan will be hard for, as we have
made clear today, a disproportionate amount of people with
disabilities who have other sources of income, although
severely low, that may still be sufficient to help contribute
to a mortgage. If an individual needs home modifications, there
might be a separate grant or deferred payment loan making the
loan from the mortgage company more affordable.
I especially want to lift up the income, the importance of
companies to understand the income and asset situation of many
people with disabilities, but also that there is an opportunity
for more people to use their housing choice vouchers for
homeownership. It is rare that this happens, but HUD can
incentivize public housing authorities to choose to include
homeownership as an option in more areas. There are also
homeownership models like limited equity co-ops that provide
homeownership for low-income people, including people with
disabilities, and HUD should be doing more to promote these
models. And Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should be finding ways
to incentivize banks and other lenders to finance these--
Ms. Tlaib. No, I appreciate it. And that is so important,
because much of our housing stock in my district is valued at
less than $100,000 and requires a lot of repairs to be brought
up to code. And one of the things that we did, and I know the
chairwoman was a big supporter of this, is we introduced the
Small Dollar Mortgage bill to really try to push our Federal
Government to play a bigger role, because many of the
traditional banks are not loaning to homes that are worth less
than $100,000, because it is not profitable.
So, many of our families are already facing many barriers
to obtaining a small-dollar mortgage, let alone additional
financing to actually repair it and make it safe and
accessible. Do you have any recommendations? It sounds like
they are getting there where we need to move towards that
direction.
But, Ms. Cannington, one of the things that I really want
to look at is, how do we get our government to push and allow
us because that is why they were created--FHA was created
specifically for this--to push the small-dollar mortgages out,
and especially prioritizing those living with disabilities?
Ms. Cannington. Let me just say thank you, that, as the
programs I mentioned before need more investment, need more
prioritization, and HUD has taken leadership on increasing
homeownership, but disability equity must be embedded within
those solutions. And we need disabled people at the helm of HUD
and other critical agencies to help make that happen. Thank
you.
Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much, I yield back.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you. Next, I recognize the
gentlewoman from Texas, Ms. Garcia, whom I am also honored to
share is the Vice Chair of this subcommittee. And you are now
recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Garcia of Texas. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And let
me first thank you for having this hearing. I just find it
incredibly heartening to see that you have had the foresight
and just done this piece of diversity and inclusion because,
quite frankly, I think when the average person thinks of
diversity and inclusion, I think a lot of our witnesses are
correct, they are forgotten or they are an afterthought. Thank
you so much for doing this, and thank you to all of the
witnesses and some of you for sharing your stories.
Madam Chairwoman, I was a Legal Aid lawyer, the first job I
ever had after law school, and I represented the Coalition for
Barrier Free Living. This was in the 1980s. This is 2022, and
we are still talking about the same issues. While it has been
great to listen to it, I just cannot believe that so many of
the things we are talking about are some of the same things
that we talked about when I was at Legal Aid. And, Madam
Chairwoman, the only case that I argued before the Fifth
Circuit was an SSI asset case. Unfortunately, I lost.
Obviously, the witnesses have told you that nothing has
changed, so it is going to take a lot of work to make sure that
we can make some significant changes. But I think what is
important is that we have the opportunity to help so many
people.
And now with COVID long-haulers, I think it is particularly
difficult because I know, Ms. Thompson, you were answering
questions from Representative Pressley. I think the bigger
issue is just getting on disability. I know the President acted
with guidance to say that, yes, disability for COVID long-
haulers has to be a recognized disability. But tell me, how are
we doing, because from what I read early on, our long-haulers
were having a hard time making their cases, because disability
has to be for the long term. It has to be for 12 months. How
are we doing on that? Just a short answer, because I only have
5 minutes.
Ms. Thompson. The short answer is that we are not doing
well at all with long-haulers and disabled people in general
who have been seeking benefits for quite some time, that gap.
And who is able to apply and when they are able to receive
benefits is very wide due to the systemic roadblocks in
applying and getting an answer for folks who are in need, and
for some people, it comes too late.
Ms. Garcia of Texas. Right. And, Mr. Foley, about
accommodations, are we finding that employers are making
reasonable accommodations for the fatigue, the headaches, and
all of those symptoms that come with the long-haulers?
Mr. Foley. I think in some cases, we are, but we have also
heard many, many stories about lots of employers not being
particularly accommodating to short or long COVID.
Ms. Garcia of Texas. Right. This weekend, this Friday, when
I was flying in from D.C., an article caught my eye, Madam
Chairwoman, and I ask for unanimous consent to enter it into
the record. It is entitled, ``Amazon Accused Of Discrimination
Against Pregnant and Disabled Workers in New York.'' And the
key point was that they are allegedly forcing pregnant workers
and workers with disabilities to take an unpaid leave of
absence rather than providing them with reasonable
accommodations, according to the complaint. Is that common or
are they the lone ranger? Mr. Foley?
Mr. Foley. That is pretty common. I suspect that every
witness today could point to a handful of stories that we have
worked with or we have seen or we have heard about such levels
of discrimination.
Ms. Garcia of Texas. Ms. Thompson, can you add to that?
Ms. Thompson. Yes, it is definitely not uncommon. And what
we are seeing when it comes to COVID long-haulers is that they
are experiencing the same issues as the other folks have
experienced this entire time of just the lack of everything
when it comes to accommodations, getting approval and so forth.
What COVID long-haulers are really bringing forth are the
complicated issues of other disabled people, getting the
supports and services that they need and deserve.
Ms. Garcia of Texas. Thank you. Disability Rights Texas, an
organization that defends advances to strengthen the rights and
opportunities of people with disabilities, has made it clear
that housing is a right for all, including persons with
disabilities, and I, of course, agree. In fact, I have a bill
that I have introduced this Congress, H.R. 7123, the Studying
Barriers to Homelessness Act, that would require the GAO to
study the barriers to housing, even in housing assistance
programs such as the public housing and Housing Choice Voucher
Programs. So, I urge this committee to look at that, because
obviously, when we look to barriers, we could certainly find
ways to make it easier for people with disabilities who may
seek assistance from these programs.
Madam Chairwoman, I see my time is up. I may have a couple
of questions I will submit in writing within the required days.
Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you, Madam Vice Chairwoman. And
without objection, your article is entered into the record.
Chairwoman Beatty. The gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr.
Auchincloss, who is also the Vice Chair of the Full Committee,
is now recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Auchincloss. Thank you, Chairwoman Beatty, for yet
another really substantive and helpful hearing. And I just want
to let you know that I also fail to [inaudible] every single
time, crosswalks, school buses, bicycles, can't do any of it,
so I am with you.
Ms. Sullivan, my first question is for you. It is about
hidden workers. As you stated in your testimony, the high
unemployment rate amongst the autistic community is not just a
barrier to financial stability for them, but a missed
opportunity for employers to find a great source of talent. I
strongly agree with you, and it looks like the private sector
is starting to catch up to that reality. A Harvard Business
School study looked at the untapped talent of hidden workers,
including people with physical disabilities and neurodiversity,
and they offered some recommendations for including them in the
talent development pipeline. One is by refreshing job
descriptions, one is by shifting from negative to affirmative
filters in an applicant tracking system or recruiting
management or marketing system, and another is by adopting a
customer experience mindset in how they design recruitment and
onboarding processes.
How can Congress partner with the private sector at a time
when it feels like there is an inflection point because of how
tight the labor market is, because of this academic research
that is really highlighting the missed opportunities? It seems
like there is an inflection point in the private sector. How
can Congress partner with them to implement the recommendations
that have been made?
Ms. Sullivan. Thank you for the question, and that was a
great report that Harvard did. I think what is interesting is
some other studies that have been done, especially about
autistic workers, is when a manager works with a job coach to
help manage somebody with a disability, they always end up with
higher scores in managing neurotypicals. Because a lot of
times, we don't learn how to be a manager, and when you
participate in programs like LiNC-IT, we are teaching the
manager how to manage, which invariably makes them better
managers for everybody. And the thing about the job description
as well, especially people on the spectrum feel that they need
to have every single box checked on a job description. That is
why we go in and take a 3-page job description and boil it down
to about 5 things. Women also have been studied, the same sort
of issue with why are you putting all of these things in job
descriptions that don't really have anything to do with the
job? So, that is fair.
From a legislative standpoint, I am not sure, because our
success has been--it is a very individualized experience for
employers. I think voc rehab could get more funding for things
like outreach. We are just able to do it just because of the
way the partnership happened in North Carolina, I think that is
a barrier certainly for them in reaching out to more employers.
Mr. Auchincloss. Ms. Sullivan, I would encourage you, if in
your follow-on work there are areas where you see, and all of
our witnesses, where you see that Congress can be a partner to
the private sector in updating the recruitment, that you please
liaise with my office because we are very interested in this
issue.
My second question is really for anybody who wants to weigh
in. Mr. Foley, maybe I will start with you. I represent a
district with a lot of different public transit options,
although they have been under-invested in. One in particular,
actually, in my hometown of Newton, Massachusetts, is a series
of commuter rail stations, three of them, none of which are
accessible for persons with disabilities, and all of which have
significant housing stock being built near them. And we are
working very hard to partner Federal, State, and local, to make
the investments to upgrade them to be ADA-compliant. Mr. Foley,
can you weigh in on the impact that non-ADA-compliant
transportation modes have on the disability community's access
to job services and opportunity?
Mr. Foley. Absolutely, and thank you for the question. I
have been quoting a study recently which highlights that 79
percent of people who are visually impaired talk about
transportation being their number-one barrier to employment.
Obviously, if you can't get to a place of business, you are not
going to be able to get that job, even with some of us being
able to work from home now. Access to accessible, affordable
transportation is probably the number-one ranked issue with
regard to employment for many people with disabilities across
the disability spectrum.
Mr. Auchincloss. And, Mr. Foley, I apologize, I am going to
have to cut you off because I am running out of time here. If
you want to add anything else, we will take it for the record.
But I would just echo and analogize to what you said about
transportation to what Ms. Sullivan said about how managers who
learn how to manage neuroatypical individuals become better
managers. When we make transportation options accessible for
everybody, regardless of ability, we make them better
transportation options for all of the United States, period,
and I would extend that even to how we design our cities. And
it's a lesson that applies across--
Chairwoman Beatty. I'm sorry. The gentleman's time is up.
Mr. Auchincloss. I yield back.
Chairwoman Beatty. Thank you so much for your testimony.
I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a letter
from the group, Disability:IN, supporting the Disability
Disclosure Act of 2022.
Without objection, it is so ordered.
I also ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a
statement from Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky, supporting her
bill, H.R. 4695, the Eleanor Smith Inclusive Home Design Act.
Without objection, it is so ordered.
I would like to thank all of our witnesses for their
testimony today. It has been very enlightening.
The Chair notes that some Members may have additional
questions for these witnesses, which they may wish to submit in
writing. Without objection, the hearing record will remain open
for 5 legislative days for Members to submit written questions
to these witnesses and to place their responses in the record.
Also, without objection, Members will have 5 legislative days
to submit extraneous materials to the Chair for inclusion in
the record.
This hearing is now adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 1:29 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
May 24, 2022
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
[ALL]