[House Hearing, 117 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
HEARING ON THE JANUARY 6TH INVESTIGATION
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SELECT COMMITTEE TO
INVESTIGATE THE JANUARY 6TH
ATTACK ON THE
UNITED STATES CAPITOL
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
JULY 21, 2022
__________
Serial No. 117-9
__________
Printed for the use of the Select Committee to Investigate the January
6th Attack on the United States Capitol
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
49-356PDF WASHINGTON : 2022
SELECT COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE JANUARY 6TH ATTACK ON THE UNITED
STATES CAPITOL
Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi, Chairman
Liz Cheney, Wyoming, Vice Chair
Zoe Lofgren, California
Adam B. Schiff, California
Pete Aguilar, California
Stephanie N. Murphy, Florida
Jamie Raskin, Maryland
Elaine G. Luria, Virginia
Adam Kinzinger, Illinois
COMMITTEE STAFF
David B. Buckley, Staff Director
Kristin L. Amerling, Deputy Staff Director and Chief Counsel
Hope Goins, Senior Counsel to the Chairman
Joseph B. Maher, Senior Counsel to the Vice Chair
Timothy J. Heaphy, Chief Investigative Counsel
Jamie Fleet, Senior Advisor
Timothy R. Mulvey, Communications Director
Candyce Phoenix, Senior Counsel and Senior Advisor
John F. Wood, Senior Investigative Counsel and Of Counsel to the Vice
Chair
Katherine B. Abrams, Staff Thomas E. Joscelyn, Senior
Associate Professional Staff Member
Temidayo Aganga-Williams, Senior Rebecca L. Knooihuizen, Financial
Investigative Counsel Investigator
Alejandra Apecechea, Investigative Casey E. Lucier, Investigative
Counsel Counsel
Lisa A. Bianco, Director of Member Damon M. Marx, Professional Staff
Services and Security Manager Member
Jerome P. Bjelopera, Investigator Evan B. Mauldin, Chief Clerk
Bryan Bonner, Investigative Counsel Yonatan L. Moskowitz, Senior
Richard R. Bruno, Senior Counsel
Administrative Assistant Hannah G. Muldavin, Deputy
Marcus Childress, Investigative Communications Director
Counsel Jonathan D. Murray, Professional
John Marcus Clark, Security Staff Member
Director Jacob A. Nelson, Professional
Jacqueline N. Colvett, Digital Staff Member
Director Elizabeth Obrand, Staff Associate
Heather I. Connelly, Professional Raymond O'Mara, Director of
Staff Member External Affairs
Meghan E. Conroy, Investigator Elyes Ouechtati, Technology
Heather L. Crowell, Printer Partner
Proofreader Robin M. Peguero, Investigative
William C. Danvers, Senior Counsel
Researcher Sandeep A. Prasanna, Investigative
Soumyalatha Dayananda, Senior Counsel
Investigative Counsel Barry Pump, Parliamentarian
Stephen W. DeVine, Senior Counsel Sean M. Quinn, Investigative
Lawrence J. Eagleburger, Counsel
Professional Staff Member Brittany M. J. Record, Senior
Kevin S. Elliker, Investigative Counsel
Counsel Denver Riggleman, Senior Technical
Margaret E. Emamzadeh, Staff Advisor
Associate Joshua D. Roselman, Investigative
Sadallah A. Farah, Professional Counsel
Staff Member James N. Sasso, Senior
Daniel A. George, Senior Investigative Counsel
Investigative Counsel Grant H. Saunders, Professional
Jacob H. Glick, Investigative Staff Member
Counsel Samantha O. Stiles, Chief
Aaron S. Greene, Clerk Administrative Officer
Marc S. Harris, Senior Sean P. Tonolli, Senior
Investigative Counsel Investigative Counsel
Alice K. Hayes, Clerk David A. Weinberg, Senior
Quincy T. Henderson, Staff Professional Staff Member
Assistant Amanda S. Wick, Senior
Jenna Hopkins, Professional Staff Investigative Counsel
Member Darrin L. Williams, Jr., Staff
Camisha L. Johnson, Professional Assistant
Staff Member
Zachary S. Wood, Clerk
CONTRACTORS & CONSULTANTS
Rawaa Alobaidi
Melinda Arons
Steve Baker
Elizabeth Bisbee
David Canady
John Coughlin
Aaron Dietzen
Gina Ferrise
Angel Goldsborough
James Goldston
Polly Grube
L. Christine Healey
Danny Holladay
Percy Howard
Dean Jackson
Stephanie J. Jones
Hyatt Mamoun
Mary Marsh
Todd Mason
Ryan Mayers
Jeff McBride
Fred Muram
Alex Newhouse
John Norton
Orlando Pinder
Owen Pratt
Dan Pryzgoda
Brian Sasser
William Scherer
Driss Sekkat
Chris Stuart
Preston Sullivan
Brian Young
Innovative Driven
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Statements
The Honorable Bennie G. Thompson, a Representative in Congress
From the State of Mississippi, and Chairman, Select Committee
to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States
Capitol........................................................ 1
The Honorable Liz Cheney, a Representative in Congress From the
State of Wyoming, and Vice Chair, Select Committee to
Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol 2
The Honorable Elaine G. Luria, a Representative in Congress From
the State of Virginia.......................................... 4
The Honorable Adam Kinzinger, a Representative in Congress From
the State of Illinois.......................................... 5
Witnesses
Mr. Matthew Pottinger, Former Deputy National Security Advisor... 6
Ms. Sarah Matthews, Former Deputy Press Secretary and Special
Assistant to the President..................................... 7
HEARING ON THE JANUARY 6TH INVESTIGATION
----------
Thursday, July 21, 2022
U.S. House of Representatives,
Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on
the United States Capitol,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 8:01 p.m., in
room 390, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Liz Cheney (Vice
Chair of the Committee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Thompson, Cheney, Lofgren, Schiff,
Aguilar, Murphy, Raskin, Luria, and Kinzinger.
Vice Chair Cheney. The Committee will be in order.
Chairman Thompson. Good evening. Earlier this week, I
received a positive COVID diagnosis. Per CDC guidelines, I
received the initial two shots and all of the boosters. Thus
far, I have been blessed to experience very minimal symptoms.
Because I am still quarantined, I cannot participate in person
with my colleagues. I have asked our Vice Chair, Ms. Cheney, to
preside over this evening's hearing, including maintaining
order in the room and swearing in our witnesses.
Over the last month and a half, the Select Committee has
told the story of a President who did everything in his power
to overturn an election. He lied. He bullied. He betrayed his
oath. He tried to destroy our democratic institutions. He
summoned a mob to Washington.
Afterwards, on January 6th, when he knew that the assembled
mob was heavily armed and angry, he commanded the mob to go to
the Capitol, and he emphatically commanded the heavily-armed
mob to ``fight like hell.'' For the weeks between the November
election and January 6th, Donald Trump was a force to be
reckoned with. He shrugged off the factually and legally
correct sober advice of his knowledgeable and sensible
advisers. Instead, he recklessly blazed a path of lawlessness
and corruption, the cost of which democracy be damned.
Then he stopped. For 187 minutes on January 6th, this man
of unbridled, destructive energy could not be moved, not by his
aides, not by his allies, not by the violent chants of rioters,
or the desperate pleas of those facing down the riot. More
tellingly, Donald Trump ignored and disregarded the desperate
pleas of his own family, including Ivanka and Don, Jr. Even
though he was the only person in the world who could call off
the mob he sent to the Capitol, he could not be moved to rise
from his dining room table and walk the few steps down the
White House hallway into the Press Briefing Room where cameras
were anxiously and desperately waiting to carry his message to
the armed and violent mob, savagely beating and killing law
enforcement officers, ravaging the Capitol, and hunting down
the Vice President and various Members of Congress.
He could not be moved. This evening, my colleagues Mr.
Kinzinger of Illinois and Mrs. Luria of Virginia will take you
inside the White House during those 187 minutes. We also remind
you of what was happening at the Capitol minute by minute, as a
final violent tragic part of Donald Trump's scheme to cling to
power unraveled, while he ignored his advisers, stood by, and
watched it unfold on television.
Let me offer a final thought about the Select Committee's
work so far. As we have made clear throughout these hearings,
our investigation goes forward. We continue to receive new
information every day. We continue to hear from witnesses. We
will reconvene in September to continue laying out our findings
to the American people.
But, as that work goes forward, a number of facts are
clear. There can be no doubt that there was a coordinated,
multi-step effort to overturn an election, overseen and
directed by Donald Trump. There can be no doubt that he
commanded a mob, a mob he knew was heavily armed, violent and
angry, to march on the Capitol to try to stop the peaceful
transfer of power, and he made targets out of his own Vice
President and the lawmakers gathered to do the people's work.
These facts have gone undisputed. So there needs to be
accountability, accountability under the law, accountability to
the American people, accountability at every level, from the
local precincts in many States where Donald Trump and his
allies attacked election workers for just doing their jobs, all
the way up to the Oval Office, where Donald Trump embraced the
illegal advice of insurrectionists that a Federal judge has
already said was ``a coup in search of a legal theory.''
Our democracy withstood the attack on January 6th. If there
is no accountability for January 6th for every part of this
scheme, I fear that we will not overcome the on-going threat to
our democracy. There must be stiff consequences for those
responsible.
Now, I will turn things over to our Vice Chair to start
telling this story.
Vice Chair Cheney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Without objection, the presiding officer is authorized to
declare the Committee in recess at any point. Pursuant to House
Deposition Authority Regulation 10, I announce that the
Committee has approved the release of the deposition material
presented during today's hearing.
Let me begin tonight by wishing Chairman Thompson a rapid
recovery from COVID. He has expertly led us through eight
hearings so far, and he has brought us to the point we are
today. In our initial hearing, the Chairman and I described
what ultimately became Donald Trump's seven-part plan to
overturn the 2020 Presidential election, a plan stretching from
before election day through January 6th.
At the close of today's hearing, our ninth, we will have
addressed each element of that plan. But, in the course of
these hearings, we have received new evidence, and new
witnesses have bravely stepped forward. Efforts to litigate and
overcome immunity and executive privilege claims have been
successful, and those continue. Doors have opened, new
subpoenas have been issued, and the dam has begun to break.
Now, even as we conduct our ninth hearing, we have
considerably more to do. We have far more evidence to share
with the American people and more to gather. So, our Committee
will spend August pursuing emerging information on multiple
fronts before convening further hearings this September.
Today, we know far more about the President's plans and
actions to overturn the election than almost all Members of
Congress did when President Trump was impeached on January 13,
2021, or when he was tried by the Senate in February that year.
Fifty-seven of 100 Senators voted to convict President Trump at
that time, and more than 20 others said they were voting
against conviction because the President's term had already
expired. At the time, the Republican leader of U.S. Senate said
this about Donald Trump:
Senator McConnell. A mob was assaulting the Capitol in his name.
These criminals were carrying his banners, hanging his flags, and
screaming their loyalty to him. It was obvious that only President
Trump could end this. He was the only one.
Vice Chair Cheney. Leader McConnell reached those
conclusions based on what he knew then without any of the much
more detailed evidence you will see today. Lawlessness and
violence began at the Capitol on January 6, 2021, before 1
p.m., and continued until well after darkness fell. What
exactly was our Commander-in-Chief doing during the hours of
violence? Today, we address precisely that issue.
Everything you've heard in these hearings thus far will
help you understand President Trump's motives during the
violence. You already know Donald Trump's goal: To halt or
delay Congress's official proceedings to count certified
electoral votes. You know that Donald Trump tried to pressure
his Vice President to illegally reject votes and delay the
proceedings. You know he tried to convince State officials and
State legislators to flip their electoral votes from Biden to
Trump, and you know Donald Trump tried to corrupt our
Department of Justice to aid his scheme.
But, by January 6th, none of that had worked. Only one
thing was succeeding on the afternoon of January 6th. Only one
thing was achieving President Trump's goal. The angry armed mob
President Trump sent to the Capitol broke through security,
invaded the Capitol, and forced the vote counting to stop. That
mob was violent and destructive, and many came armed.
As you will hear, Secret Service agents protecting the Vice
President were exceptionally concerned about his safety and
their own. Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy was scared, as were
others in Congress, even those who themselves helped to provoke
the violence. As you will see today, Donald Trump's own White
House Counsel, his own White House staff, members of his own
family all implored him to immediately intervene to condemn the
violence and instruct his supporters to stand down, leave the
Capitol, and disperse.
For multiple hours, he would not. Donald Trump would not
get on the phone and order the military or law enforcement
agencies to help. For hours, Donald Trump chose not to answer
the pleas from Congress from his own party and from all across
our Nation to do what his oath required. He refused to defend
our Nation and our Constitution. He refused to do what every
American President must.
In the days after January 6th, almost no one of any
political party would defend President Trump's conduct, and no
one should do so today.
Thank you. I now recognize the gentlewoman from Virginia.
Mrs. Luria. Thank you, Madam Vice Chair.
Article II of our Constitution requires that the President
swear a very specific oath every 4 years.
Every President swears or affirms to faithfully execute the
office of the President of the United States and, to the best
of their ability, preserve, protect, and defend the
Constitution of the United States. The President also assumes
the constitutional duty to take care that our Nation's laws be
faithfully executed, and as the Commander-in-Chief of our
military.
Our hearings have shown the many ways in which President
Trump tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power in the days
leading up to January 6th. With each step of his plan, he
betrayed his oath of office and was derelict in his duty.
Tonight, we will further examine President Trump's actions on
the day of the attack on the Capitol.
Early that afternoon, President Trump instructed tens of
thousands of supporters at and near the Ellipse rally, a number
of whom he knew were armed with various types of weapons, to
march to the Capitol.
After telling the crowd to march multiple times, he
promised he would be with them, and finished his remarks at
1:10 p.m. like this:
President Trump. We're going to walk down and I'll be there with
you. We're going to walk down--[applause]--we're going to walk down,
anyone you want, but I think right here we're going to walk down to the
Capitol. [applause] So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.
Mrs. Luria. At this time, the Vice President was in the
Capitol. The joint session of Congress to certify Joe Biden's
victory was under way, and the Proud Boys and other rioters had
stormed through the first barriers and begun the attack. Radio
communications from law enforcement informed Secret Service and
those in the White House Situation Room of these developments
in real time.
At the direction of President Trump, thousands more rioters
marched from the Ellipse to the Capitol, and they joined the
attack. As you will see in great detail tonight, President
Trump was being advised by nearly everyone to immediately
instruct his supporters to leave the Capitol, disperse, and
halt the violence. Virtually everyone told President Trump to
condemn the violence in clear and unmistakable terms, and those
on Capitol Hill and across the Nation begged President Trump to
help.
But the former President chose not to do what all of those
people begged. He refused to tell the mob to leave until 4:17,
when he tweeted out a video statement filmed in the Rose Garden
ending with this.
President Trump. So go home. We love you. You're very special.
You've seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that are
so bad and so evil. I know how you feel but go home and go home in
peace.
Mrs. Luria. By that time, two pipe bombs had been found at
locations near the Capitol, including where the Vice President-
elect was conducting a meeting. Hours of hand-to-hand combat
had seriously injured scores of law enforcement officers. The
Capitol had been invaded. The electoral count had been halted
as Members were evacuated. Rioters took the floor of the
Senate. They rifled through desks and broke into offices. They
nearly caught up to Vice President Pence. Guns were drawn on
the House floor, and a rioter was shot attempting to infiltrate
the Chamber.
We know that a number of rioters intended acts of physical
violence against specific elected officials. We know virtually
all the rioters were motivated by President Trump's rhetoric
that the election had been stolen, and they felt they needed to
take their country back.
This hearing is principally about what happened inside of
the White House that afternoon.
From the time when President Trump ended his speech until
the moment when he finally told the mob to go home, was a span
of 187 minutes, more than 3 hours. What you will learn is that
President Trump sat in his dining room and watched the attack
on television while his senior-most staff, closest advisers,
and family members begged him to do what is expected of any
American President.
I served proudly for 20 years as an officer in the United
States Navy. Veterans of our Armed Forces know first-hand the
leadership that is required in a time of crisis, urgent and
decisive action that puts duty and country first.
But, on January 6th, when lives and our democracy hung in
the balance, President Trump refused to act because of his
selfish desire to stay in power.
I yield to the gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Kinzinger.
Mr. Kinzinger. Thank you. Thank you, Mrs. Luria.
One week after the attack, Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy
acknowledged the simple truth: President Trump should have
acted immediately to stop the violence.
During our investigation, General Mark Milley, the Chairman
of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, also remarked on the President's
failure to act.
Let's hear what they had to say.
Mr. McCarthy. The President bears responsibility for Wednesday's
attack on Congress by mob rioters. He should have immediately denounced
the mob when he saw what was unfolding. These facts require immediate
action by President Trump.
______
General Milley. Yeah. You know, Commander in Chief, you got an
assault going on on the Capitol of the United States of America, and
there's nothing? No call? Nothing? Zero?
Mr. Kinzinger. Like my colleague from Virginia, I am a
veteran. I served in the Air Force, and I serve currently in
the Air National Guard. I can tell you that General Milley's
reaction to President Trump's conduct is 100 percent correct,
and so was Leader McCarthy's.
What explains President Trump's behavior? Why did he not
take immediate action in a time of crisis? Because President
Trump's plan for January 6th was to halt or delay Congress's
official proceeding to count the votes. The mob attacking the
Capitol quickly caused the evacuation of both the House and the
Senate. The count ground to an absolute halt and was ultimately
delayed for hours. The mob was accomplishing President Trump's
purpose, so of course he didn't intervene.
Here is what will be clear by the end of this hearing:
President Trump did not fail to act during the 187 minutes
between leaving the Ellipse and telling the mob to go home; he
chose not to act.
But there were hundreds that day who honored their oaths
and put their lives on the line to protect the people inside
the Capitol and to safeguard our democracy.
Many of them are here tonight with us, and many more are
watching from home. As you already know, and we will see again
tonight, their service and sacrifice shines a bright light on
President Trump's dishonor and dereliction of duty.
I yield to the Vice Chair.
Vice Chair Cheney. Thank you very much, Mr. Kinzinger.
I would like to begin by welcoming our witnesses this
evening. Tonight, we are joined by Mr. Matthew Pottinger. Mr.
Pottinger is a decorated former Marine intelligence officer who
served this Nation on tours of duty in Afghanistan and Iraq. He
served in the Trump White House from the first day of the
administration through the early morning hours of January 7,
2021. The last role in which he served in the White House was
as Deputy National Security Advisor to the President of United
States.
We are also joined by Sarah Matthews. Ms. Matthews started
her career in communications working on Capitol Hill serving on
the Republican staffs of several House committees. She then
worked as Deputy Press Secretary for President Trump's
reelection campaign before joining the Trump White House in
June 2020. She served there as Deputy Press Secretary and
Special Assistant to the President until the evening of January
6, 2021.
I will now swear in our witnesses. The witnesses will
please stand and raise their right hands.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Vice Chair Cheney. Thank you. You may be seated. Let the
record reflect that the witnesses answered in the affirmative.
Thank you, both, again for being here tonight.
Mr. Pottinger, thank you for your service to the Nation as
well as for joining us this evening.
Can you please briefly explain what your responsibilities
were as Deputy National Security Advisor to the President?
Mr. Pottinger. Thank you, Madam Vice Chair.
When I started at the White House, I was a senior director
for Asia on the National Security Council staff. So that was a
job that involved helping coordinate the President's Asia
policy. I supported the President when he met or interacted
with Asian leaders. Later, in 2019, I was promoted to the job
of Deputy National Security Advisor. In that role, I was the
chairman of the Deputies Committee. That is an NSC meeting of
all of the Deputy Cabinet Secretaries. We would settle
important matters of National policy related to our National
security, and we would also tee up options for the President
and for his Cabinet Members.
It was--I felt then as I do now it was a privilege to serve
in the White House. I am also very proud of President Trump's
foreign policy accomplishments. We were able to finally compete
with China. We were also able to broker peace agreements
between Israel and three Arab states. I mean, those are some
examples of the types of policies that I think made our country
safer.
Vice Chair Cheney. Thank you, Mr. Pottinger.
Were you in the White House during the attack on the
Capitol on January 6th?
Mr. Pottinger. For most of the day, I was in the White
House. Although, when the President was speaking at the rally,
I was actually offsite at a scheduled meeting with India's
Ambassador to the United States. The National Security Council
staff was not involved in organizing the security for what was
a domestic event, the rally, but I did return to the White
House at roughly 2:30 p.m.
Vice Chair Cheney. Thank you. I know my colleagues will
have additional questions for you about that afternoon.
Let me turn now to you, Ms. Matthews.
How did you come to join President Trump's White House
staff?
Ms. Matthews. Thank you, Madam Vice Chair.
As you outlined, I have been a lifelong Republican. I
joined the Trump reelection campaign in June 2019. I was one of
the first communication staffers actually on board for his
reelection campaign. During that time, I traveled all around
the country and met Kayleigh McEnany, who was also working on
his reelection campaign.
I worked there for a year, and I formed a close
relationship with Ms. McEnany, and she moved over to the White
House in April 2020 to start as White House Press Secretary,
and she brought over a group of campaign staff with her. So I
joined her over at the White House in June 2020 to start as her
deputy.
Vice Chair Cheney. Were you, Ms. Matthews, at work in the
White House on January 6th?
Ms. Matthews. Yes. I was working out of the West Wing that
day.
Vice Chair Cheney. Thank you.
Now I would like to recognize the gentlewoman from Virginia
and the gentleman from Illinois.
Mrs. Luria. Thank you, Madam Vice Chair.
As you have seen in our prior hearings, President Trump
summoned the mob to D.C. on January 6th. Before he went on
stage, he knew some of them were armed and prepared for combat.
During his speech, he implored them to march to the Capitol, as
he had always planned to do. By the time he walked off the
stage, his supporters had already breached the outer perimeter
of the Capitol at the foot of Capitol Hill.
Since our last hearings, we have received new testimony
from a security professional working in the White House complex
on January 6th with access to relevant information and
responsibility to report to National security officials. This
security official told us that the White House was aware of
multiple reports of weapons in the crowd that morning. We as a
Committee are cognizant of the fear of retribution expressed by
certain National security witnesses who have come forward to
tell the truth. We have therefore taken steps to protect this
National security individual's identity.
Listen to that clip from their testimony.
Ms. Dayananda. What was the consistent message from the people
about this idea of the President to walk to the Capitol?
Anonymous White House Security Official. To be completely honest,
we were all in a state of shock.
Ms. Dayananda. Because why?
Anonymous White House Security Official. Because--because it just--
one, I think the actual physical feasibility of doing it, and then also
we all knew what that implicated and what that meant; that this was no
longer a rally; that this was going to move to something else if he
physically walked to the Capitol. I--I don't know if you want to use
the word ``insurrection,'' ``coup,'' whatever. We all knew that this
would move from a normal, democratic, you know, public event into
something else.
Ms. Dayananda. What was--what was driving that sentiment
considering this--this--this part of it, the actual breach of the
Capitol, hadn't happened yet?
Anonymous White House Security Official. Why were we alarmed?
Ms. Dayananda. Right.
Anonymous White House Security Official. The President wanted to
lead tens of thousands of people to the Capitol. I think that was
enough grounds for us to be alarmed.
Mrs. Luria. Even though he understood many of his
supporters were armed, the President was still adamant to go to
the Capitol when he got off the stage at the Ellipse, but his
Secret Service detail was equally determined to not let him go.
That led to a heated argument with the detail that delayed the
departure of the motorcade to the White House.
We have evidence from multiple sources regarding an angry
exchange in the Presidential SUV, including testimony we will
disclose today from two witnesses who confirmed that a
confrontation occurred. The first witness is a former White
House employee with National security responsibilities. After
seeing the initial violence at the Capitol on TV, the
individual went to see Tony Ornato, the deputy chief of staff,
in his office. Mr. Ornato was there with Bobby Engel, the
President's lead Secret Service agent.
This employee told us that Mr. Ornato said that the
President was ``irate when Mr. Engel refused to drive him to
the Capitol.'' Mr. Engel did not refute what Mr. Ornato said.
The second witness is retired Sergeant Mark Robinson of the
D.C. Police Department, who was assigned to the President's
motorcade that day. He sat in the lead vehicle with the Secret
Service agent responsible for the motorcade, also called the TS
agent. Here is how Sergeant Robinson remembered the exchange.
Ms. Dayananda. Was there any description of what--of what was
occurring in the car?
Sergeant Robinson. No. Only that on--the only description I
received was that the President was upset and was adamant about going
to the Capitol, and there was a heated discussion about that.
Ms. Dayananda. And when you say ``heated,'' is that your word or is
that the word that was described by the TS agent?
Sergeant Robinson. No. The word described by the TS agent, meaning
that the President was upset, and he was saying there was a heated
argument or discussion about going to the Capitol.
______
Mr. Schiff. About how many times would you say you've been part of
that motorcade with the President?
Sergeant Robinson. Probably over a hundred times.
Mr. Schiff. And in that hundred times, have you ever witnessed
another discussion of--an argument or heated discussion with the
President where the President was contradicting where he was supposed
to go or what the Secret Service believed was safe?
Sergeant Robinson. No.
Mrs. Luria. Like other witnesses, Sergeant Robinson also
testified that he was aware that individuals in the crowd were
armed.
Sergeant Robinson. Yes, I believe we was on special events channel,
and I was monitoring the traffic. And so I could hear some of the units
pointing out to individuals that there were individuals along
Constitution Avenue that were armed, that were up in the trees, and I
can hear the units responding to those individuals. So there's always a
concern when there's a POTUS in the area.
Mrs. Luria. Like other witnesses, Sergeant Robinson told us
that the President still wanted to travel to the Capitol even
after returning to the White House.
Ms. Dayananda. So, at the end of the speech, what was the plan
supposed to be?
Sergeant Robinson. So, at the end of the speech, we do know that
while inside the limo, the President was still adamant about going to
the Capitol. That's been relayed to me by the TS agent. And so we did
depart the Ellipse, and we responded back to the White House. However,
we--the motorcade--POTUS motorcade was placed on standby. And so we
were told to stand by on the West Exec until they confirmed whether or
not the President was going to go to the Capitol. And so I may have
waited, I would just estimate, maybe 45 to--45 minutes to an hour
waiting for Secret Service to make that decision.
Mrs. Luria. The motorcade waited at the White House for
more than 45 minutes before being released. The Committee is
also aware that accounts of the angry confrontation in the
Presidential SUV have circulated widely among the Secret
Service since January 6th. Recent disclosures have also caused
the Committee to subpoena yet further information from the
Secret Service, which we have begun to receive and will
continue to assess. The Committee is also aware that certain
Secret Service witnesses have now retained new private counsel.
We anticipate further testimony under oath and other new
information in the coming weeks.
After the Secret Service refused to take President Trump to
the Capitol, he returned to the White House.
What you see on the screen is a photo of him inside the
Oval Office immediately after he returned from the rally, still
wearing his overcoat. A White House employee informed the
President as soon as he returned to the Oval about the riot at
the Capitol. Let me repeat that: Within 15 minutes of leaving
the stage, President Trump knew that the Capitol was besieged
and under attack.
At 1:25, President Trump went to the private dining room
off the Oval Office. From 1:25 until 4 o'clock, the President
stayed in his dining room. Just to give you a sense where the
dining room is situated in the West Wing, let's take look at
this floor plan.
The dining room is connected to the Oval Office by a short
hallway. Witnesses told us that, on January 6th, President
Trump sat in his usual spot, at the head of the table facing a
television hanging on the wall. We know from the employee that
the TV was tuned to Fox News all afternoon. Here you can see
Fox News on the TV showing coverage of the joint session that
was airing that day at 1:25.
Other witnesses confirmed that President Trump was in the
dining room with the TV on for more than 2\1/2\ hours. There
was no official record of what President Trump did while in the
dining room. On the screen is the Presidential call log from
January 6th.
As you can see, there is no official record of President
Trump receiving or placing a call between 11:06 and 6:54 p.m.
As to what the President was doing that afternoon, the
Presidential daily diary is also silent. It contains no
information from the period between 1:21 p.m. and 4:03 p.m.
There are also no photos of President Trump during this
critical period between 1:21 in the Oval Office and when he
went outside to the Rose Garden after 4 o'clock. The chief
White House photographer wanted to take pictures because it
was, in her words, very important for his archives and for
history, but she was told ``no photographs.''
Despite the lack of photos or an official record, we have
learned what President Trump was doing while he was watching TV
in the dining room, but before we get into that, it is
important to understand what he never did that day. Let's
watch.
Vice Chair Cheney. So are you aware of any phone call by the
President of the United States to the Secretary of Defense that day?
Mr. Cipollone. Not that I'm aware of, no.
Vice Chair Cheney. Are you aware of any phone call by the President
of the United States to the Attorney General of the United States that
day?
Mr. Cipollone. No.
Vice Chair Cheney. Are you aware of any phone call by the President
of the United States to the Secretary of Homeland Security that day?
Mr. Cipollone. I--I'm not aware of that, no.
______
Mr. George. Did you ever hear the Vice President--excuse me, the
President ask for the National Guard?
General Kellogg. No.
Mr. George. Did you ever hear the President ask for a law
enforcement response?
General Kellogg. No.
______
Mr. George. So, as somebody who works in the national security
space and with the National Security Council, if there were going to be
troops present or called up for a rally in Washington, DC, for example,
is that something that you would have been aware of?
General Kellogg. Yeah, I would have.
______
Mr. George. Do you know if he asked anybody to reach out to any of
those that we just listed off--National Guard, DOD, FBI, Homeland
Security, Secret Service, Mayor Bowser, or the Capitol Police--about
the situation at the Capitol?
Mr. Luna. I am not aware of any of those requests. No, sir.
Mrs. Luria. We have confirmed in numerous interviews with
senior law enforcement and military leaders, Vice President
Pence's staff and D.C. government officials, none of them--not
one--heard from President Trump that day. He did not call to
issue orders. He did not call to offer assistance. This week,
we received additional testimony from yet another witness about
why the President didn't make any efforts to quell the attack.
The former White House employee with National security
responsibilities told us about a conversation with senior
advisor Eric Herschmann and Pat Cipollone, the top White House
lawyer. This conversation was about a pending call from the
Pentagon seeking to coordinate on the response to the attack.
Mr. Herschmann turned to Mr. Cipollone and said the
President didn't want to do anything.
So, Mr. Cipollone had to take the call himself.
So, if President Trump wasn't calling law enforcement or
military leaders, what did President Trump spend his time doing
that afternoon while he first settled into the dining room? He
was calling Senators to encourage them to delay or object to
the certification. Here is Kayleigh McEnany, his Press
Secretary, to explain.
Mr. Wood. All right. That says ``back there'' and ``he wants list
of Senators,'' and then ``he's calling them one by one.'' Do you know
which ones he called?
Ms. McEnany. To the best of my recollection, no. As I say in my
notes, he wanted a list of the Senators, and, you know, I left him at--
at that point.
Mrs. Luria. Because the Presidential call log is empty, we
do not yet know precisely which Senators President Trump was
calling. But we do know from Rudy Giuliani's phone records that
President Trump also called him at 1:39, after he had been told
that the riot was under way at the Capitol.
Mr. Giuliani was President Trump's lead election attorney.
According to the phone records, the President's call with him
lasted approximately 4 minutes. Recall that Fox News was on in
the dining room. Let's take a look at what was airing as this
call was ending.
Fox News Reporter. The President, as we all saw, fired this crowd
up. They've all--tens of thousands, maybe 100,000 or more, have gone
down to the Capitol or elsewhere in the city, and they're very upset.
Now, I jumped down as soon as we heard the news that Bret gave you
about Mike Pence. I started talking to these people. I said, ``What do
you think?'' One woman, an Air Force veteran from Missouri, said she
was, quote, ``disgusted to hear that news and that it was his duty to
do something.'' And I told her--I said, ``There's nothing in the
Constitution unilaterally that Vice President Pence could do.'' She
said, ``That doesn't matter. He should have fought for Trump.''
Mrs. Luria. At 1:49, here is what was happening at the
Capitol with President Trump's fired-up supporters.
Metropolitan Police Department Transmission. We're going to give--
fire a warning. We're going to try to get compliance, but this is now
effectively a riot.
Metropolitan Police Department Transmission. 1349 hours declaring
it a riot.
Mrs. Luria. What did President Trump do at 1:49, as the
D.C. Police at the same time were declaring a riot at the
Capitol?
As you can see on the screen, he tweeted out a link to the
recording of his Ellipse speech. This was the same speech in
which he knowingly sent an armed mob to the Capitol, but
President Trump made no comment about the lawlessness and the
violence.
I yield to the gentleman from Illinois.
Mr. Kinzinger. The next action President Trump took was to
tweet at 2:24 p.m. What happened during the 35 minutes between
his last tweet at 1:49 and 2:24? His staff repeatedly came into
the room to see him and plead that he make a strong public
statement condemning the violence and instructing the mob to
leave the Capitol. He did not relent until after 4 o'clock when
he went out to go to the Rose Garden to film his now infamous
``go home'' message.
Pat Cipollone was a top White House lawyer. Here is what he
told us about his reaction to seeing the violence and his
advice throughout the afternoon.
Mr. Heaphy. When did you first realize that there was actual
violence or rioting?
Mr. Cipollone. I--I first realized it may have been on television
or it may have been Tony or it may have been Philbin. But I found out
that people were--you know, they weren't in the Capitol yet, but they
were, you know--and then I started watching it, and, you know, then I
was aware.
______
Mr. Heaphy. What specifically did you think needed to be done?
Mr. Cipollone. I think I was pretty clear there needed to be an
immediate and forceful response statement--public statement that people
need to leave the Capitol now.
______
Mr. Heaphy. My question is exactly that, that it sounds like you
from the very onset of violence at the Capitol, right around 2 o'clock,
were pushing for a strong statement that people should leave the
Capitol. Is that right?
Mr. Cipollone. I was, and others were as well.
______
Vice Chair Cheney. Pat, you--you said that you expressed your
opinion forcefully. Could you tell us exactly how you did that?
Mr. Cipollone. Yeah, I can't--I don't have--you know, I have to--on
the privilege issue, I can't talk about conversations with the
President, but I can generically say that I said, you know, people need
to be told--there needs to be a public announcement fast that they need
to leave the Capitol.
Vice Chair Cheney. And, Pat, could you let us know approximately
when you said that?
Mr. Cipollone. Approximately when? Almost immediately after I found
out people were getting into the Capitol or approaching the Capitol in
a way that was--was violent.
______
Mr. Heaphy. Do you remember any discussion with Mark Meadows with
respect to his view that the President didn't want to do--was somehow
resistant to wanting to say something along the lines that you
suggested?
Mr. Cipollone. Tony [inaudible]--just to be clear, many people
suggested it, not just me. Many people felt the same way. I'm sure I
had conversations with Mark about this during the course of the day and
expressed my--my opinion very forcefully that this needs to be done.
______
Mr. Heaphy. So your advice was to tell people to leave the Capitol,
and it took over 2 hours when there were subsequent statements made,
tweets put forth, that in your view were insufficient. Did you
continue, Mr. Cipollone, throughout the period of time up until 4:17--
continue, you and others, to push for a stronger statement?
Mr. Cipollone. Yes.
Mr. Heaphy. Were you joined in that effort by Ivanka Trump?
Mr. Cipollone. Yes.
Mr. Heaphy. Eric Herschmann?
Mr. Cipollone. Yes.
Mr. Heaphy. And Mark Meadows?
Mr. Cipollone. Yes.
______
Ms. Hutchinson. White House Counsel's Office wanted there to be a
strong statement out to condemn the rioters. I'm confident in that. I'm
confident that Ivanka Trump wanted there to be a strong statement to
condemn the rioters. I don't know the private conversation she had with
Mr. Trump, but I remember when she came to the office one time with
White House counsel's office--when she came to the Chief of Staff's
office with White House counsel's office, she was talking about the
speech later that day and trying to get her dad on board with saying
something that was more direct than he had wanted to at the time and
throughout the afternoon.
______
Mr. Cipollone. I think Mark also wanted--got--I remember him
getting Ivanka involved, because--said, ``Get Ivanka down here,''
because he thought that would be important. I don't think Jared was
there in the morning, but I think he came later. I remember thinking it
was important to get him in there, too.
And--and of course, Pat Philbin, you know, was expressing the same
things. I mean, Pat Philbin, you know, was very--as I said, I don't
think there was one of these meetings where--there might have been, but
for the most part, I remember the both of us going down together, going
back, getting on phone calls. He was also very clearly expressing this
view.
Mr. Kinzinger. Pat Cipollone and Cassidy Hutchinson, an
aide to Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, also told us about the
``hang Mike Pence'' chants. As you will see, Mr. Cipollone
recalled conversations about those chants in the West Wing, but
he relied on executive privilege to maintain confidentiality
over his and others' direct communications with the President.
Although Mr. Cipollone was unwilling to provide more detail,
Ms. Hutchinson provided more explicit information filling in
those blanks. See that for yourself.
Ms. Hutchinson. It wasn't until Mark hung up the phone, handed it
back to me, I went back to my desk. A couple of minutes later, him and
Pat came back, possibly Eric Herschmann, too. I'm pretty sure Eric
Herschmann was there, but I'm--I'm confident it was Pat that was there.
I remember Pat saying something to the effect of, ``Mark, we need to do
something more. They're literally calling for the Vice President to be
F'ing hung.'' And Mark had responded something to the effect of, ``You
heard him, Pat. He thinks Mike deserves it. He doesn't think they're
doing anything wrong.'' To which Pat said something, ``This is F'ing
crazy. We need to be doing something more,'' and briefly stepped into
Mark's office.
______
Mr. Heaphy. Do you remember any discussion at any point during the
day about rioters at the Capitol chanting ``hang Mike Pence?''
Mr. Cipollone. Yes, I remember--I remember hearing that--about
that, yes. I don't know if I observed that myself on TV.
Mr. Heaphy. I'm just curious. I understand the--the privilege line
you've drawn, but do you remember what you can share with us about the
discussion about those chants, the ``hang Mike Pence'' chants?
Mr. Cipollone. I can tell you my view of that.
Mr. Heaphy. Yes, please.
Mr. Cipollone. My view of that is that is outrageous. And for
anyone to suggest such a thing of the Vice President of the United
States, for people in that crowd to be chanting that I thought was
terrible. I thought it was outrageous and wrong, and I expressed that
very clearly.
______
Mr. Schiff. With respect to your conversations with Mr. Meadows,
though, did you specifically raise your concern over the Vice President
with him, and--and how did he respond?
Mr. Cipollone. I believe I raised the concern about the Vice
President, and I--and I--again, the nature of his response, without
recalling exactly, was he--you know, people were doing all that they
could.
Mr. Schiff. And what about the President, did he indicate whether
he thought the President was doing what needed to be done to protect
the Vice President?
Mr. Purpura. Privilege.
Mr. Heaphy. You have to assert it. That question would----
[Crosstalk.]
Mr. Cipollone [continuing]. I'm being instructed on privilege.
Mr. Heaphy. I see.
Mr. Kinzinger. In addition, Mr. Cipollone testified that it
would have been feasible, as commentators on television were
suggesting, for President Trump to immediately appear at the
podium in the press room to address the Nation.
Mr. Heaphy. Would it have been possible at any moment for the
President to walk down to the podium in the Briefing Room and tell--
talk to the Nation at any time between when you first gave him that
advice at 2 o'clock and 4:17 when the video statement went? Would that
have been possible?
Mr. Cipollone. Would it have been possible?
Mr. Heaphy. Yes.
Mr. Cipollone. Yes, it would have been possible.
Mr. Kinzinger. We just heard Mr. Cipollone say that
President Trump could have gone to the Press Briefing Room to
issue a statement at any moment. To give you a sense of just
how easy that would have been, let's take a look at a map of
the West Wing.
As we saw earlier, the President's private dining room is
at the bottom of the map. The Press Briefing Room is at the top
highlighted in blue, and the Rose Garden, where the President
ultimately his ``go home'' video is on the right, next to the
Oval Office, and that is highlighted in green.
Ms. Matthews, how quickly could the President have gotten
on camera in the Press Briefing Room to deliver a statement to
the Nation?
Ms. Matthews. So, as you outlined, it would take probably
less than 60 seconds from the Oval Office dining room over to
the Press Briefing Room. For folks that might not know, the
Briefing Room is the room that you see the White House Press
Secretary do briefings from with the podium and the blue
backdrop. There is a camera that is on in there at all times.
So, if the President had wanted to make a statement and address
the American people, he could have been on camera almost
instantly.
Conversely, the White House Press Corps has offices that
are located directly behind the Briefing Room. So, if he had
wanted to make an address from the Oval Office, we could have
assembled the White House Press Corps probably in a matter of
minutes to get them into the Oval for him to do an on-camera
address.
Mr. Kinzinger. Thank you. Other witnesses have given us
their views on that question. For example, General Keith
Kellogg told us that some staff were concerned that a live
appearance by the President at the microphones at that moment
could actually make matters worse. He told us he recommended
against doing a press conference because, during his 4 years in
the Trump administration: ``There wasn't a single clean press
conference we had had.''
President Trump's advisers knew his state of mind at that
moment, and they were worried about what he would say in
unscripted comments.
I yield to the gentlewoman from Virginia.
Mrs. Luria. Thank you.
As you've heard, by 2 o'clock, multiple staff members in
the White House recognized that a serious situation was under
way at the Capitol. Personally, I recall being evacuated from
the House office building where we were sitting by--before this
time, and it was due to the discovery of two pipe bombs in
nearby buildings.
Ms. Matthews, around the same time, you were watching the
violence unfold on television and social media with colleagues,
including with Ben Williamson, a senior aide to Mark Meadows
and the acting director of communications.
You told us before President Trump sent his next tweet at
2:24, Mr. Williamson got up to go see Mr. Meadows, and you got
up to go see Kayleigh McEnany.
Why did you both do that?
Ms. Matthews. So, Ben and I were watching the coverage
unfold from one of the offices in the West Wing, and we both
recognized that the situation was escalating, and it was
escalating quickly, and that the President needed to be out
there immediately to tell these people to go home and condemn
the violence that we were seeing. So, I told him that I was
going to make that recommendation to Kayleigh, and he said he
was going to make the same recommendation to the Chief of Staff
Mark Meadows.
Mrs. Luria. Thank you. One of your colleagues in the press
office, Judd Deere, told us he also went to see Ms. McEnany at
that time. Let's hear what he said about this critical period
of time right as the rioters were getting into the Capitol.
Mr. Wood. And why did you think it was necessary to say something?
Mr. Deere. Well, I mean, it appears that individuals are storming
the U.S. Capitol Building. They also appear to be supporters of Donald
Trump who may have been in attendance at the rally. We're going to need
to say something.
Mr. Wood. Did you have a view as to what should be said by the
White House?
Mr. Deere. If I recall, I told Kayleigh that I thought that we
needed to encourage individuals to stop, to respect law enforcement,
and to go home.
Mrs. Luria. Although President Trump was aware of the on-
going riot, he did not take any immediate action to address the
lawlessness. Instead, at 2:03, he called Rudy Giuliani again,
and that call lasted for over 8 minutes.
Moments later, at 2:13, rioters broke into the Capitol
itself. One of the Proud Boys charged with seditious
conspiracy, Dominic Pezzola, used an officer's shield to smash
a window and rioters flooded into the building.
Crowd. Go, go, go, go. Go in the Capitol. Go, go, go.
Mrs. Luria. As rioters were entering the building, the
Secret Service held Vice President Pence in his office right
off the Senate Chamber for 13 minutes as they worked to clear a
safe path to a secure location.
Now listen to some of that radio traffic and see what they
were seeing as the protesters got just feet away from where the
Vice President was holding.
Secret Service Radio Transmission. They're taking the building.
Hold.
Harden that door up.
If you are moving, we need to move now.
Copy.
If we lose any more time, we may have--we may lose the ability to--
to leave. So, if we're going to leave, we need to do it now.
They've gained access to the second floor, and I've got public
about 5 feet from me down here below.
Okay. Copy.
They are on the second floor moving in now. We may want to consider
getting out and leaving now. Copy.
Will we encounter the people once we make our way?
Repeat.
Encounter any individuals if we made our way to the--to the----
There's six officers between us and the people that are 5 to 10
feet away from me.
Stand by. I'm going down to evaluate.
Go ahead.
We have a clear shot if we move quickly. We've got smoke
downstairs. Stand by. Unknown smoke from downstairs. By the protesters?
Is that route compromised?
We have the--is secure. However, we will bypass some protesters
that are being contained. There is smoke, unknown what kind of smoke it
is. Copy.
Clear. We're coming out now. All right? Make a way.
Mrs. Luria. The President's National Security Council staff
was listening to these developments and tracking them in real
time.
On the screen, you can see excerpts from the chat logs
among the President's National Security Council staff. At 2:13,
the staff learned that the rioters were kicking in the windows
at the Capitol. Three minutes later, the staff said the Vice
President was being pulled, which meant agents evacuated him
from the Senate floor. At 2:24, the staff noted that the Secret
Service agents at the Capitol did not ``sound good right now.''
Earlier, you heard from a security professional who had
been working in the White House complex on January 6th with
access to relevant information and a responsibility to report
to National security officials. We asked this person, what was
meant by the comment that the Secret Service agents did not
``sound good right now''?
In the following clip of that testimony, which has been
modified to protect the individual's identity, the professional
discusses what they heard from listening to the incoming radio
traffic that day.
Ms. Dayananda. Okay. That last entry in the page is ``Service at
the Capitol does not sound good right now.''
Anonymous White House Security Official. Correct.
Ms. Dayananda. What does that mean?
Anonymous White House Security Official. Well, members of the VP
detail at this time were starting to fear for their own lives. There
were a lot of--there was a lot of yelling, a lot of--a lot of very
personal calls over the radio. So it was disturbing. I don't like
talking about it, but there were calls to say goodbye to family
members, so on and so forth. It was getting--for whatever the reason
was on the ground, the VP detail thought that this was about to get
very ugly.
Ms. Dayananda. And do--did you hear that over the radio?
Anonymous White House Security Official. Correct.
Ms. Dayananda. Okay. What was the response by the agents who were--
Secret Service agents who were there?
Anonymous White House Security Official. Everybody kept saying--you
know, at that point it was just reassurances or--I think there were
discussions of reinforcements coming, but--but, again, it was just
chaos, and they were just----
Ms. Dayananda. Obviously, you've conveyed that's disturbing, but
what--what prompted you to put it into an entry as it states there,
``Service at the Capitol----
Anonymous White House Security Official. They were running out of
options, and they were getting nervous. It--it sounds like we're--that
we came very close to either Service having to use lethal options or--
or worse. Like, at--at that point I don't know. Is the VP compromised?
Is the detail--like, I--I don't know. Like, we didn't have visibility,
but it doesn't--if they're screaming and--and saying things like say
goodbye to the family, like, the floor needs to know this is going to
on a whole `nother level soon.
Mrs. Luria. As the next video shows, the rioters' anger was
focused primarily on Vice President Mike Pence.
Ms. Buhler. This woman came up to the side of us and she says,
``Pence folded.'' So it was kind-of, like, okay, well--in my mind, I
was thinking, well, that's it, you know. Well, my son-in-law looks at
me and he says, ``I want to go in.''
______
Stop the Steal Transmission. What percentage of the crowd is going
to the Capitol?
Ms. Watkins. 100 percent. It is--it has spread like wildfire that
Pence has betrayed us, and everybody is marching on the Capitol, all
million of us. It's insane.
______
Voice. Mike Pence will not stick up for Donald Trump. Mike Pence,
traitor.
Voice. Mike Pence has screwed us in case you haven't heard yet.
Voice. What happened? What happened?
Voice. I keep hearing that Mike Pence has screwed us. That's the
word. I keep hearing reports that Mike Pence has screwed us.
______
Mr. Childress. Did people appear angry as you were walking to the
Capitol?
Mr. Ayres. Yeah, a lot of people--a lot of people seemed like they
were very upset.
Mr. Childress. Tell us some of the things they were saying, if you
recall.
Mr. Ayres. Oh, there was--they were saying all type--you know,
people were screaming all types of stuff. They were mad that Vice
President Pence was going to accept the electorals. I mean, it was--I
mean, it was a load of--if you can--if you can think it up, that's--you
are hearing it.
______
Voice. I believe that Vice President Pence was going to certify the
electoral votes and--or not certify them. But I guess that's just
changed. Correct? And it's a very big disappointment. I think there's
several hundred thousand people here that are very disappointed.
Mrs. Luria. President Trump did not try to calm his
thousands of disappointed supporters. Instead, at almost the
same moment violence was getting completely out of hand, Donald
Trump sent his 2:24 tweet.
The President said, ``Mike Pence didn't have the courage to
do what should have been done to protect our Country and our
Constitution.''
Despite knowing the Capitol had been breached and the mob
was in the building, President Trump called Mike Pence a coward
and placed all the blame on him for not stopping the
certification. He put a target on his own Vice President's
back.
Mr. Pottinger and Ms. Matthews, when we asked you about
your reaction to seeing the 2:24 tweet in real time, you both
used the same imagery to describe it: President Trump was
adding fuel to the fire.
Mr. Pottinger, you made the decision to resign after seeing
this tweet. Can you please tell us why?
Mr. Pottinger. Yes. So that was pretty soon after I--or
shortly before I had gotten back to the White House. I had come
from off-site. I began to see for the first time those images
on TV of the chaos that was unfolding at the Capitol.
One of my aides handed me a sheet of paper that contained a
tweet that you just read. I read it and was quite disturbed by
it. I was disturbed and worried to see that the President was
attacking Vice President Pence for doing his constitutional
duty.
So, the tweet looked to me like the opposite of what we
really needed at that moment, which was a de-escalation. That
is why I had said earlier that it looked like fuel being poured
on the fire.
So, that was the moment that I decided that I was going to
resign, that that would be my last day at the White House. I
simply didn't want to be associated with the events that were
unfolding on the Capitol.
Mrs. Luria. Thank you.
Ms. Matthews, what was your reaction to the President's
tweet about Vice President Pence?
Ms. Matthews. So, it was obvious that the situation at the
Capitol was violent and escalating quickly. So, I thought that
the tweet about the Vice President was the last thing that was
needed in that moment.
I remember thinking that this was going to be bad for him
to tweet this, because it was essentially him giving the green
light to these people, telling them that what they were doing
at the steps of the Capitol and entering the Capitol was okay,
that they were justified in their anger.
He shouldn't have been doing that. He should have been
telling these people to go home and to leave and to condemn the
violence that we were seeing.
I am someone who has worked with him, you know, I worked on
the campaign, traveled all around the country, going to
countless rallies with him, and I have seen the impact that his
words have on his supporters. They truly latch onto every word
and every tweet that he says.
So, I think that in that moment for him to tweet out the
message about Mike Pence, it was him pouring gasoline on the
fire and making it much worse.
Mrs. Luria. Thank you both.
Let's watch what others also told us about their reactions
to this tweet.
Mr. Cipollone. I don't remember when exactly I heard about that
tweet, but my reaction to it is that's a--a terrible tweet, and I
disagreed with the sentiment, and I thought it was wrong.
______
Mr. Wood. What was your reaction when you saw that tweet?
Mr. Deere. Extremely unhelpful.
Mr. Wood. Why?
Mr. Deere. It--it--it wasn't the message that we needed at--at that
time. It wasn't going to--the--the scenes at the U.S. Capitol were only
getting worse at that point. This was not going to help that.
Mr. Wood. Were you concerned it could make it worse?
Mr. Deere. Certainly.
______
Vice Chair Cheney. Ms. Hutchinson, what was your reaction when you
saw this tweet?
Ms. Hutchinson. As a staffer that works to always represent the
administration to the best of my ability and to showcase the good
things that he had done for the country, I remember feeling frustrated,
disappointed, and really, it--it felt personal. I--I was really sad. As
an American, I was disgusted. It was unpatriotic. It was un-American.
We were watching the Capitol Building get defaced over a lie.
Mrs. Luria. As you will see, at 2:26 the Vice President had
to be evacuated to safety a second time and came within 40 feet
of the rioters. The attack escalated quickly right after the
tweet.
Voices. [Unintelligible.]
Mrs. Luria. During this chaos, what did President Trump do
at that point? He went back to calling Senators to try to
further delay the electoral count.
While the Vice President was being evacuated from the
Senate, President Trump called Senator Tommy Tuberville, one of
his strongest supporters in the Senate. As Senator Tuberville
later recalled, he had to end the call so that he could
evacuate the Senate Chamber himself.
Let's listen.
Senator Tuberville. He called--didn't call my phone. Called
somebody else and they handed it to me. And I--I basically told him--I
said, ``Mr. President, we're--we're not doing much work here right now
because they just took our Vice President out, and matter of fact, I'm
gonna have to hang up on you. I've got to leave.''
Mrs. Luria. Senator Josh Hawley also had to flee. Earlier
that afternoon, before the joint session started, he walked
across the East Front of the Capitol.
As you can see in this photo, he raised his fist in
solidarity with the protesters already amassing at the security
gates.
We spoke with the Capitol Police Officer who was out there
at the time. She told us that Senator Hawley's gesture riled up
the crowd. It bothered her greatly, because he was doing it in
a safe space, protected by the officers and the barriers.
Later that day, Senator Hawley fled after those protesters
he helped to rile up stormed the Capitol.
See for yourself.
Think about had what we've seen: undeniable violence at the
Capitol. The Vice President being evacuated to safety by the
Secret Service. Senators running through the hallways of the
Senate to get away from the mob.
As the Commander-in-Chief, President Trump was oath- and
duty-bound to protect the Capitol. His senior staff understood
that.
Vice Chair Cheney. Do--do you believe, Jared, that the President
has an obligation to ensure a peaceful transfer of power?
Mr. Kushner. Yes.
Vice Chair Cheney. And do you think the President has an obligation
to defend all three branches of our government?
Mr. Kushner. I believe so.
______
Vice Chair Cheney. And I assume you also would agree the President
has a particular obligation to take care that the laws be faithfully
executed.
Mr. Cipollone. That is one of the President's obligations, correct.
______
Vice Chair Cheney. No, I mean, I asked what his duty is.
General Kellogg. Well, I mean, there's a--there's a constitutional
duty--I--what he has--he's the Commander in Chief, and that was the--
the--that was my biggest issue with him as National Security Advisor.
Mrs. Luria. Rather than uphold his duty to the
Constitution, President Trump allowed the mob to achieve the
delay that he hoped would keep him in power.
I reserve.
Vice Chair Cheney. The gentlewoman reserves.
I request that those in the hearing room remain seated
until the Capitol Police have escorted Members and witnesses
from the room.
I now declare the Committee in recess for a period of
approximately 10 minutes.
[Accordingly, at 9:11 p.m., the Committee recessed until
9:24 p.m., when it was called to order by the Vice Chair.]
Vice Chair Cheney. I now recognize the gentleman from
Illinois.
Mr. Kinzinger. We left at the recess just after President
Trump's 2:24 tweet attacking the Vice President. By this time,
the President had been in his dining room for an hour.
I want you to just think of what you would have done if you
were in his shoes and had the power to end the violence. You
would have immediately and forcefully told the rioters to stop
and leave, like, stop and leave, done.
As you heard, that's exactly what his senior staff had been
urging him do. But he resisted and he kept resisting for
another almost 2 hours.
In the mean time, all the President did was post two
tweets, one at 2:38 and the other at 3:13. One said ``stay
peaceful.'' The other said ``remain peaceful.''
But the President already knew that the mob was attacking
the police and had invaded the Capitol. Neither tweet condemned
the violence or told the mob to leave the Capitol and disperse.
To appreciate how obvious it was that President Trump was
not meeting this moment, it is helpful to look at the real-time
reactions of his own son, Don Jr., to the first tweet captured
in a series of text messages with Mark Meadows. I warn the
audience that these messages contain some strong language.
As you can see, Don Jr. first texted Mr. Meadows at 2:53.
He wrote, ``He's got to condemn this shit. ASAP. The Capitol
police tweet is not enough.''
Mr. Meadows replied, ``I am pushing it hard. I agree.''
Don Jr. responded, ``This [is] one you go to the mattresses
on. They will try to fuck his entire legacy on this if it gets
worse.''
Here's what Don Jr. told us he meant by ``go to the
mattresses.''
Mr. Tonolli. At 2:58 when you say that he need--that Mr. Meadows
needs to go to the mattresses on this issue, when you say ``go to the
mattresses,'' what does that mean?
Mr. Trump, Jr. It's just a reference for going all in. I think it's
a ``Godfather'' reference.
Mr. Kinzinger. Sean Hannity agreed, and he also turned to
Mark Meadows for help after the President's second tweet.
As you can see, Mr. Hannity texted at 3:31 to say Trump
needed to deliver a statement to the Nation telling the rioters
to leave the Capitol. Mr. Meadows respond that he was ``on
it.''
Don Jr. and Sean Hannity were not the only ones who
implored Mr. Meadows to get the President to speak to the
Nation and tell the mob to leave, to go home, go home.
Throughout the attack, Mr. Meadows received texts from
Republican Members of Congress, from current and former Trump
administration officials, from media personalities, and from
friends. Like President Trump's staff, they knew President
Trump had to speak publicly to get the mob to stop.
Let's look at just a few of these text messages.
Fox News personality Laura Ingraham said, ``The President
needs to tell the people in the Capitol to go home.'' Former
Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney urged, ``Mark, he needs to stop
this now.'' Fox News personality Brian Kilmeade said, ``Please
get him on TV. Destroying everything that you guys have
accomplished.''
When we interviewed White House Counsel Pat Cipollone, he
told us that he knew that the President's two tweets were not
enough.
Let's listen to what he said.
Mr. Heaphy. I think the question is, did you believe that the
tweets were not anything about your advice to the President?
Mr. Cipollone. No, I believe more needed to be done. I believed
that a public statement needed to be made.
______
Vice Chair Cheney. When you talk about others on the staff thinking
more should be done or thinking that the President needed to tell
people to go home, who--who would you put in that category?
Mr. Cipollone. Well, I--I would put Pat Philbin, Eric Herschmann,
overall Mark Meadows, Ivanka; once Jared got there, Jared; General
Kellogg. I'm probably missing some, but those are--Kayleigh, I think,
was--was there, but I don't--Dan Scavino.
Vice Chair Cheney. And who on the staff did not want people to
leave the Capitol?
Mr. Cipollone. On the staff?
Vice Chair Cheney. In the White House, how about?
Mr. Cipollone. I don't--I--I can't think of anybody, you know, on
that day who didn't want people to get out of the--the Capitol once
the--you know, particularly once the violence started, no. I mean----
Mr. Schiff. What about the President?
Vice Chair Cheney. Yeah.
Mr. Cipollone. She said the staff, so I answered.
Vice Chair Cheney. No, I said in the White House.
Mr. Cipollone. Oh, I'm sorry. I--I apologize. I thought you said
who--who else on the staff. I--I--I can't reveal communications, but
obviously, I think, you know--yeah.
Mr. Kinzinger. Let's pause on that last statement. Although
Pat Cipollone is being careful about executive privilege, there
really is no ambiguity about what he said. Almost everybody
wanted President Trump to instruct the mob to disperse.
President Trump refused.
To understand how inadequate the President's tweets were,
let's examine his 2:38 tweet in more detail. For context, here
is what was happening at that time.
Voice. They broke the glass.
Voice. Everybody, stay down. Get down.
______
United States Capitol Police Transmission. Doors barricaded.
There's people flooding the hallways outside. We have no way out.
______
Mr. Welch. We were just told that there has been tear gas in the
rotunda, and we're being instructed to each of us get a gas mask.
______
Fox News Host. We went from a peaceful protest, and this is a very
dangerous situation right now. That there are--I'm being told these
protesters on the inside are around both Chambers, and there is now
tear gas inside the Capitol Rotunda. In fact, Members locked in the
House are being instructed to put on masks.
Mr. Kinzinger. Ms. Matthews, after President Trump's tweet
about Vice President Pence, you told us you spoke to--
immediately you spoke to Kayleigh McEnany. What did you tell
her and where did she go afterwards?
Ms. Matthews. After the tweet about the Vice President, I
found Kayleigh and told her that I thought the President needed
to immediately send out a tweet that condemned the violence
that we were seeing and that there needed to be a call to
action to tell these people to leave the Capitol. She agreed
and walked over to the Oval dining room to find the President.
Mr. Kinzinger. We interviewed Ms. McEnany and others who
were in the dining room with the President urging him to put
out a statement.
Ms. Matthews, Ms. McEnany told us she came right back to
the press office after meeting with the President about this
particular tweet. What did she tell you about what happened in
that dining room?
Ms. Matthews. When she got back, she told me that a tweet
had been sent out. I told her that I thought the tweet did not
go far enough, that I thought there needed to be a call to
action and he needed to condemn the violence.
We were in a room full of people, but people weren't paying
attention. So, she looked directly at me and in a hushed tone
shared with me that the President did not want to include any
sort of mention of peace in that tweet and that it took some
convincing on their part, those who were in the room.
She said that there was a back-and-forth going over
different phrases to find something that he was comfortable
with. It wasn't until Ivanka Trump suggested the phrase ``stay
peaceful'' that he finally agreed to include it.
Mr. Kinzinger. The President resisted writing ``stay
peaceful'' in a tweet. He told Mark Meadows that the rioters
were doing what they should be doing. The rioters understood
they were doing what President Trump wanted them to do.
President Trump's message was heard clearly by Stop the
Steal organizer Ali Alexander.
At 2:38 he told another organizer, ``POTUS is not ignorant
of what his words would do.''
Rioters storming the Capitol also heard President Trump's
message. In this video, you will see surveillance footage from
the Rotunda that shows a group of Oath Keepers, including
Jessica Watkins, who was been charged with seditious
conspiracy.
You will hear her walkie-talkie communications with others
as they share intelligence and communicate about President
Trump's 2:38 tweet in real time. Again, we warn the audience
that this clip also contains strong language.
Voice. CNN just said that they evacuated all Members of Congress
into a safety room.
Voice. There is no safe place in the United States for any of these
motherfuckers right now, let me tell you.
Voice. I hope they understand that we are not joking around.
Voice. Military principle 105, military principle 105, cave means
grave.
Voice. Trump just tweeted, ``Please support our Capitol Police.
They are on our side. Do not harm them.''
Voice. That's saying a lot by what he didn't say. He didn't say not
to do anything to the Congressmen.
Voice. Well, he did not ask them to stand down. He just said stand
by the Capitol Police. They are on our side and they are good people.
So it's getting real down there. I got it on TV, and it's--it's looking
pretty friggin' radical to me.
Voice. CNN said that Trump has egged this on, that he is egging it
on, and that he is watching the country burn 2 weeks before he leaves
office. He is not leaving office. I don't give a shit what they say.
Ms. Watkins. And we are in the mezzanine. We are in the main dome
right now. We are rocking it. They're throwing grenades. They're
frickin' shooting people with paintballs, but we're in here.
Voice. Be safe, be safe. God bless and Godspeed and keep going.
Voice. Get it, Jess. Do your shit. This is what we fucking lived up
for, everything we fucking trained for.
Voice. Took over the Capitol, overran the Capitol.
Voice. We're in the fucking Capitol Complex.
Mr. Kinzinger. We have now seen how President Trump's
supporters reacted to his tweets.
Mr. Pottinger, you told us that you consider the tweets
sent to this point to be ``wholly inadequate . . . given the
urgency of the crisis.''
What, in your view, would have been needed?
Mr. Pottinger. Yes. It was insufficient. I think what--you
could count me among those who was hoping to see an unequivocal
strong statement clearing out the Capitol, telling people to
stand down, leave, go home. I think that's what we were hoping
for.
Mr. Kinzinger. So, something a lot more kind-of definitive
and not ambiguous.
Mr. Pottinger. Yes.
Mr. Kinzinger. Because he has that power over his folks.
Ms. Matthews, you told us about a colleague who said during
the attack that the President should not condemn the violence.
Can you please tell us about that moment and your reaction?
Ms. Matthews. Yes. So a conversation started in the press
office after the President sent out those two tweets that I
deemed were insufficient. A colleague suggested that the
President shouldn't condemn the violence because they thought
it would be ``handing a win to the media,'' if he were to
condemn his supporters.
I disagreed. I thought that we should condemn the violence
and condemn it unequivocally. I thought that he needed to
include a call to action and to tell these people to go home. A
debate ensued over it.
I became visibly frustrated and my colleagues were well
aware of that. I couldn't believe that we were arguing over
this in the middle of the West Wing, talking about the politics
of a tweet, being concerned with handing the media a win, when
we had just watched all of that violence unfold at the Capitol.
So, I motioned up at the TV. I said, ``Do you think it
looks like we're F'ing winning? Because I don't think it
does.''
I again reiterated that I thought that the President needed
to condemn the violence, because it didn't matter if it was
coming from the left or the right, that you should condemn
violence 100 percent of the time.
Mr. Kinzinger. We have heard this evening how everyone in
the President's orbit was pushing him to do more, to tell the
mob to leave the Capitol.
One of these people--one of those people was Republican
Leader Kevin McCarthy. He managed to get the President on the
phone and told him to call off his supporters.
As you will hear, the President refused. So, Leader
McCarthy reached out for help to Ivanka Trump, who was at the
White House, and Jared Kushner, who that afternoon had just
arrived back on a flight from the Middle East.
Ms. Lucier. So, at some point in the afternoon, Mr. McCarthy placed
a phone call to Mr. Scavino's desk line, and it was transferred to the
President. Is that correct?
Ms. Michael. That's generally what I recall.
Ms. Lucier. Okay. Were you involved in making that--transferring
that call?
Ms. Michael. I--I--yes.
Ms. Lucier. Okay. Where was the President at the time that he took
that call?
Ms. Michael. He was in the dining room.
______
Fox News Host. Would you personally reach out to the President for
more support?
Mr. McCarthy. I've already talked to the President. I called him. I
think we need to make a statement, make sure that we can calm
individuals down.
______
Mr. Heaphy. Did Mr. McCarthy indicate that he had been in touch
with President Trump?
Mr. Short. He indicated that he had had some conversation. I don't
recall whether it was with the--with the President or with somebody at
the White House. But I think he--he expressed frustration that--not
taking the circumstance as seriously as they should in that moment.
______
Ms. Herrera Beutler. You know, I asked Kevin McCarthy, who's the
Republican Leader, about this, and--and he said he called Donald--he
finally got through to Donald Trump, and he said, ``You have got to get
on TV. You've got to get on Twitter. You've got to call these people
off.'' You know what the President said to him? This is as it's
happening. He said, ``Well, Kevin, these aren't my people. You know,
these are--these are Antifa.''
And Kevin responded and said, ``No, they're your people. They
literally just came through my office windows, and my staff are running
for cover. I mean, they're running for their lives. You need to call
them off.'' And the President's response to Kevin, to me, was chilling.
He said, ``Well, Kevin, I guess they're just more upset about the
election, you know, theft than you are.''
And that's--you know, you've seen widespread reports of--of Kevin
McCarthy and the President having a--basically a swearing conversation.
That's when the swearing commenced, because the President was basically
saying, nah, I--I'm okay with this.
______
CBS News Host. Leader McCarthy, the President of the United States
has a Briefing Room steps from the Oval Office. It is--the cameras are
hot 24/7, as you know. Why hasn't he walked down and said that now?
Mr. McCarthy. I conveyed to the President what I think is best to
do, and I'm hopeful the President will do it.
CBS News Host. And have you spoken with his chief of staff?
Mr. McCarthy. I've spoken to the President. I've spoken to other
people in there and to the White House as well.
______
Mr. Tonolli. Who else reached out to Mr. Trump that you know of
that afternoon about the attack on the Capitol?
Ms. Radford. I believe at one point McCarthy did.
______
Mr. Kushner. So, my--I heard my phone ringing, turn the shower off,
saw it was Leader McCarthy, who I had a good relationship with. He told
me it was getting really ugly over at the Capitol and said, ``Please,
you know, anything you could do to help, I would appreciate it.''
______
Mr. Kushner. I don't recall a specific ask, just anything you could
do. Again, I got the sense that, you know, they were--they were--you
know, they were scared.
Mr. Heaphy. ``They'' meaning Mr.--Leader McCarthy and people on the
Hill because of the violence?
Mr. Kushner. That he--he was scared, yes.
Mr. Kinzinger. Think about that. Leader McCarthy, who was
one of the President's strongest supporters, was scared and
begging for help. President Trump turned him down. So, he tried
to call the President's children.
Republican House Member Mike Gallagher also implored the
President to call off the attack.
Mr. Gallagher. Mr. President, you have got to stop this. You are
the only person who can call this off. Call it off. The election is
over. Call it off.
Mr. Kinzinger. President-elect Joe Biden also went live on
TV to demand that President Trump tell the mob to leave.
President-elect Biden. I call on President Trump to go on national
television now, to fulfill his oath and defend the Constitution, and
demand an end to this siege.
Mr. Kinzinger. There was a desperate scramble for everyone
to get President Trump to do anything. All this occurred and
the President still did not act.
I yield to my friend from Virginia.
Mrs. Luria. Thank you, Mr. Kinzinger.
President Trump finally relented to the pleas from his
staff, his family, and from Capitol Hill for him to do
something more at 4:17, 187 minutes, more than 3 hours after he
stopped speaking at the Ellipse, after he stopped speaking to a
mob that he had sent armed to the Capitol.
That is when he tweeted a video telling the rioters to go
home, while also telling them that they were special and that
he loved them.
By that time, although the violence was far from over, law
enforcement had started to turn the tide, reinforcements were
on the way, and elected officials were in secure locations. The
writing was already on the wall: The rioters would not succeed.
Here is what was showing on Fox News, the channel the
President was watching all afternoon.
Fox News Host. Back to Bret Baier with more information now. Bret,
what do you have?
Mr. Baier. You know, our Pentagon team--Jen Griffin, Lucas
Tomlinson--confirming the Defense Department has now mobilized the
entire D.C. National Guard, 1,800 troops. Takes several hours, as I was
mentioning before, to get them up and running. The Army Secretary, Ryan
McCarthy, is setting up a headquarters at the FBI. You just heard from
David Spunt that the FBI is also sending troops to the Capitol.
Mrs. Luria. It is no coincidence then that President Trump
finally gave in and went out to the Rose Garden at 4:03. His
staff had prepared a script for him to read, but he refused to
use it.
As you can see on the screen, you can see the script is
stamped ``President Has Seen.'' The script said, ``I am asking
you to leave the Capitol Hill region NOW and go home in a
peaceful way.''
The President was urged to stick to this script, but he
spoke off the cuff.
Eric Herschmann and Nick Luna went with the President to
film the message in the Rose Garden. Let's hear what they had
to say and see the never-before-seen raw footage of the
President recording this video message.
Mr. George. Ultimately, these remarks that we're looking at here in
Exhibit 25 were not the remarks that the President delivered in the
Rose Garden. Do you know why the President decided not to use these?
Mr. Luna. I--I don't know, sir. No, I do not know why.
Mr. George. Did the President use any written remarks, to your
knowledge, or did he just go off the cuff?
Mr. Luna. To my knowledge, it was off the cuff, sir.
______
White House Staff [off-mic]. When you're ready, sir.
President Trump. You tell me when.
White House Staff. When you're ready, sir.
President Trump. Who's behind me?
White House Staff. He's gone. He's gone. We're all clear now.
President Trump. I know your pain. I know you're hurt. We had a
election--let me say. I know your pain. I know you're hurt. We had an
election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election and
everyone knows it, especially the other side, but you have to go home
now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to
respect our great people in law and order.
We don't want anybody hurt. It's a very tough period of time.
There's never been a time like this where such a thing happened where
they could take it away from all of us, from me, from you, from our
country. This was a fraudulent election, but we can't play into the
hands of these people.
We have to have peace. So go home. We love you. You're very
special. You've seen what happens. You see the way others are treated
that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel but go home and go
home in peace.
______
Mr. Kushner. When I got there, basically the President just had
finished filming the video, and I think he was basically retiring for
the day.
______
Mr. Wood. Was there any discussion about the President releasing a
second video that day?
Mr. Herschmann. Not that I recall. When--when he finished his
video, I think everyone was, like, day's over. People were pretty
drained.
Mr. Wood. Were pretty what?
Mr. Herschmann. Drained.
Mr. Wood. When we say day--day over are we--there were still people
in the Capitol at that point, weren't there?
Mr. Herschmann. There were people in the Capitol, but I believe by
this stage law enforcement--I'd have to go back and look, but I believe
law enforcement was either there or moving in or going to take charge.
And I just think people were emotionally drained by the time that
videotape was done.
Mrs. Luria. Emotionally drained? At the White House?
Here is what was happening at the same time at the Capitol.
We warn the audience that this clip also contains strong
language and violence.
Voice. Keep pushing. Don't lose the momentum. [Indistinguishable.]
Metropolitan Police Department Transmission. We've got another
officer unconscious at the terrace. West Terrace.
Voice. Everybody, we need gas masks. We need weapons. We need
strong, angry patriots to help our boys. They don't want to leave.
Mrs. Luria. While President Trump refused to even lift
another finger to help, other leaders honored their oaths and
acted to clear the Capitol and resume the joint session.
For instance, here are never-before-seen photos and video
of congressional leaders in action during the attack. The video
is a portion of a call they had at approximately 4:45 with
Acting Secretary of Defense Chris Miller.
Senator McConnell. We're not going to let these people keep us from
finishing our business. So we need you to get the building cleared.
Give us the okay so we can go back in session and finish up the
people's business as soon as possible.
Acting Secretary Miller. Amen, sir.
Senator Schumer. Mr. Secretary, it's Senator Schumer. Some people
here in the Capitol Police believe it would take us several days to
secure the building. Do you agree with that analysis?
Acting Secretary Miller. I'm not on the ground, but I do not agree
with that analysis.
Senator Schumer. So what is the earliest that we could safely
resume our proceedings in the Senate and House Chambers--the earliest
we could safely resume?
Acting Secretary Miller. I--here's my assessment, but I prefer to
be on the ground, which I personally would prefer to be right now, but
I need to be here. I would say, best case, we're looking at 4 to 5
hours.
Mrs. Luria. The Vice President also worked the phones from
his own secure evacuation location, including conversations
with Acting Secretary of Defense Miller and other military
leaders--well past President Trump's 4:17 video.
Let's look at some never-before-seen photographs of the
Vice President during this critical time and hear about the
Vice President's conversation with military leaders to secure
the Capitol and ensure everyone was safe.
General Milley. Vice President Pence? There were two or three calls
with Vice President Pence. He was very animated, and he issued very
explicit, very direct, unambiguous orders. There was no question about
that. And he was--and I can get you the exact quotes, I guess, from
some of our records somewhere, but he was very animated, very direct,
very firm and--to Secretary Miller: ``Get the military down here, get
the Guard down here, put down this situation,'' et cetera.
Mrs. Luria. As you heard earlier in the hearing, the
President did not call the Vice President or anyone in the
military, Federal law enforcement, or D.C. government, not a
single person.
But General Milley did hear from Mark Meadows. The contrast
between that call and his calls with Vice President Pence tells
you everything you need to know about President Trump's
dereliction of duty.
Let's listen.
General Milley. He said--this is from memory. He said, ``We have--
we have to kill the narrative that the Vice President is making all the
decisions. We need to establish the narrative that, you know, that the
President is still in charge and that things are steady or stable.'' Or
words to that effect. I immediately interpret that as politics,
politics, politics. Red flags for me personally, no action, but I
remember it distinctly and--and I don't do political narratives.
Mrs. Luria. So, while President Trump and his advisers were
``drained,'' other leaders upheld their oaths to do the right
thing. Maybe it was exhausting to get the President to put out
that video, but think about the law enforcement officers who
were attacked by the mob that day that President Trump had
summoned them himself to Washington.
What about President Trump? He watched TV, tweeted, called
Senators to try to delay the count of electoral votes, called
Rudy Giuliani, and argued with his staff who were insisting
that he should call off the attack.
Ms. Matthews, what was your reaction to President Trump's
message to the mob at 4:17?
Ms. Matthews. I was struck by the fact that he chose to
begin the video by pushing the lie that there was a stolen
election. As the video went on, I felt a small sense of relief
because he finally told these people to go home.
But that was immediately followed up by him saying, ``We
love you. You're very special.'' That was disserving to me,
because he didn't distinguish between those that peacefully
attended his speech earlier that day and those that we watched
cause violence at the Capitol.
Instead, he told the people who we had just watched storm
our Nation's Capitol with the intent on overthrowing our
democracy, violently attack police officers, and chant heinous
things like, ``Hang Mike Pence,'' ``We love you. You're very
special.''
As a spokesperson for him, I knew that I would be asked to
defend that. To me, his refusal to act and call off the mob
that day and his refusal to condemn the violence was
indefensible.
So, I knew that I would be resigning that evening. So, I
finished out the workday, went home and called my loved ones to
tell them of my decision, and resigned that evening.
Mrs. Luria. Thank you.
Indefensible.
Let's hear what some of your colleagues in the press office
told us about their reaction to the same 4:17 message.
Mr. Deere. I felt like it was the absolute bare minimum of
what could have been said at that point for something on
camera.
Mr. Wood. What else do you think should have been said?
Mr. Deere. So a more forceful--a more forceful dismissal of
the violence, a more forceful command to go home, a more
forceful respect for law enforcement, even a comparison to the
respect that we had given law enforcement as it relates to what
was done to them in the prior summer. And I thought it was
important that an acknowledgment be given to the U.S. Capitol
Building itself, what it's a symbol of, what it means, not only
to the people that work there, but to the American people
generally and the work of Congress that, by law, needed to be
conducted that day.
------
Mr. Wood. Do you wish in hindsight that the President had
asked the protesters to leave the Capitol earlier than he ended
up asking them to do that?
Ms. McEnany. Of course, I would have loved if the go home
message would have happened earlier in the day.
Mrs. Luria. The President's words matter. We know that many
of the rioters were listening to President Trump.
We heard from one last week, Stephen Ayres. Let's listen to
what he had to say about the 4:17 message from the President
and see how rioters reacted to the President's message in real
time.
Mr. Ayres. Well, when we were there, as soon as that come out,
everybody started talking about it, and that's--it seemed like it
started to disperse, you know, some of the crowd----
______
Mr. Angeli. I'm here delivering the President's message. Donald
Trump has asked everybody to go home.
Voice. That's our order.
______
Voice. He says, go home. He says, go home.
Voice. Yeah, he said to go home.
Mrs. Luria. But just as Mr. Ayres said, police were still
fending off the last throes of the brutal assault.
I yield to the gentleman from Illinois.
Mr. Kinzinger. While everyone else was working to get
Congress back in session, what did President Trump do? At 6:01,
just 1 minute after the city-wide curfew went into effect, he
posted his last tweet of the day.
After officers engaged in multiple hours of hand-to-hand
combat, with over 100 of them sustaining injuries, President
Trump tweeted at 6:01 and justified the violence as a natural
response to the election.
He said, ``These are the things and events that happen when
a sacred landslide victory is so unceremoniously & viciously
stripped away from great patriots who have been badly &
unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace.
Remember this day forever!''
He called the mob ``great patriots.'' He told people to
remember the day forever. He showed absolutely no remorse.
A few minutes later, at 6:27, the President left the dining
room and he went up to the White House residence for the night.
On the screen is the last photograph of the President that
night as he went into the residence. As he was gathering his
things in the dining room to leave, President Trump reflected
on the day's events with a White House employee. This was the
same employee who had met President Trump in the Oval Office
after he returned from the Ellipse. President Trump said
nothing to the employee about the attack. He said only, ``Mike
Pence let me down.''
Ms. Matthews, what was your reaction to President Trump's
6:01 tweet?
Ms. Matthews. At that point I had already made the decision
to resign and this tweet just further cemented my decision. I
thought that January 6, 2021, was one of the darkest days in
our Nation's history and President Trump was treating it as a
celebratory occasion with that tweet. So, it just further
cemented my decision to resign.
Mr. Kinzinger. Others agreed with your assessment of that
tweet. Let's look at what they had to say.
Mr. George. Who asked you about this tweet before it was sent?
Mr. Luna. The President.
Mr. George. Tell us about that conversation and everything that you
said and he said to the best of your recollection.
Mr. Luna. Sure. So he said, ``What do you think of this?'' And I
believe I saw the text message or the--on his phone. And I--I remember
saying to him the wording on the first sentence--I guess it's one long
sentence. But the wording on the first sentence would lead some to
believe that potentially he had something to do with the events that
happened at the Capitol.
Mr. George. And what did he say?
Mr. Luna. I don't recall him saying anything in response to that,
and I believe that was the end of the conversation.
Mr. George. Did he change anything in light of your comments?
Mr. Luna. No, sir, he did not.
Mr. George. And what about this made you think that someone might
perceive the President having a role in the violence at the Capitol?
Mr. Luna. It--it was my interpretation of the words. I mean, I'm--
I'm not a--you know, I don't write speeches or anything, but the
phrase, ``these are the things that happen,'' to me, sounded as if--as
if culpability was associated with it. To me.
______
Mr. Murtaugh. I don't think it's a patriotic act to attack the
Capitol, but I have no idea how to characterize the people other than
they trespassed, destroyed property, and assaulted the U.S. Capitol. I
think calling them ``patriots'' is, let's say, a stretch to say the
least.
Mr. Aganga-Williams. Is that all it is, a stretch? Or just flatly
wrong?
Mr. Murtaugh. I don't think it's a patriotic act to attack the U.S.
Capitol.
Mr. Aganga-Williams. Would you call it unpatriotic?
Mr. Murtaugh. Criminal. Unpatriotic, sure.
______
Mr. Cipollone. What happened at the Capitol cannot be justified in
any form or fashion. It was wrong and it was tragic and a lot--and it--
and it was a terrible day. It was a terrible day for this country.
______
Mr. Jacob. I thought it was inappropriate.
Mr. Wood. Why?
Mr. Jacob. To my mind, it was a day that should be remembered in
infamy. That wasn't the tenor of this tweet.
Mr. Kinzinger. Despite the violence of the day, the effort
to delay the certification continued. That evening, Rudy
Giuliani called several of President Trump's closest political
allies in the hour before the joint session resumed--
Representative Jim Jordan and Senators Marsha Blackburn, Tommy
Tuberville, Bill Haggerty, Lindsey Graham, Josh Hawley, and Ted
Cruz.
We know why Mr. Giuliani was calling them, because at 7:02
he left a voicemail for Senator Tuberville, which later became
public.
Let's listen to just the start of it.
Mr. Giuliani. Hello. Senator Tuberville? Or I should say Coach
Tuberville. This is Rudy Giuliani, President's lawyer. I'm calling you
because I want to discuss with you how they're trying to rush this
hearing and how we need you, our Republican friends, to try to just
slow it down so we can get these legislatures to get more information
to you.
Mr. Kinzinger. Mr. Giuliani did not even mention the attack
on the Capitol. Instead, he was pushing on behalf of President
Trump to get Members of Congress to further delay the
certification.
Even though some Members did proceed with objections, Vice
President Pence and Congress stood firm and successfully
concluded the joint session in the early morning hours of
January 7th.
Here is some of what members of the President's party said
in the days and weeks after the attack.
Senator McConnell. There's no question, none, that President Trump
is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the
day. No question about it. The people who stormed this building
believed they were acting on the wishes and instructions of their
President, and having that belief was a foreseeable consequence of the
growing crescendo of false statements, conspiracy theories, and
reckless hyperbole which the defeated President kept shouting into the
largest megaphone on planet Earth.
______
Mr. McCarthy. The violence, destruction, and chaos we saw earlier
was unacceptable, undemocratic, and un-American. It was the saddest day
I've ever had as serving as a Member of this institution.
______
Mr. Roy. Madam Speaker, today the people's House was attacked which
is an attack on the Republic itself. There is no excuse for it. A woman
died, and people need to go to jail. And the President should never
have spun up certain Americans to believe something that simply cannot
be.
Mr. Kinzinger. Well after 3 in the morning, Congress
certified the 2020 election results. Soon after, this statement
by President Trump was posted on Dan Scavino's Twitter account
because the President's account by now had been suspended.
As you can see, President Trump stuck with his Big Lie that
the election was stolen. But he did say there would be an
orderly transition. We learned, though, that the statement was
not necessarily his idea.
Jason Miller, a campaign adviser, told us that after the
joint session started, he heard nothing from President Trump or
the White House about assuring the Nation that the transfer of
power would take place. So, Mr. Miller took it upon himself to
draft a statement and called the President at 9:23 that night
to convince him to put it out.
Let's listen to what he had to say about the call.
Mr. Heaphy. Did he disagree with something that you had put in the
statement, some particular word or phrase that--that he did not want
included?
Mr. Jason Miller. I'd say just that he wanted to say ``peaceful''
transition, and I said that ship's kind-of already sailed so we're
going to say ``orderly'' transition. That was--that was about the
extent of disagreement or--or pushback from the conversation.
Mr. Kinzinger. The last person President Trump spoke to by
phone that night was Johnny McEntee, his head of personnel. Mr.
McEntee told us that they talked about the events of the day
and the multiple resignations by administration officials.
The decision whether to resign was one that weighed heavily
on people in the administration. On the one hand, people like
Mr. Pottinger and Ms. Matthews here, as proud as they were to
have served, refused to be associated with President Trump's
dereliction of duty. But others were sincerely worried that
leaving President Trump to his own devices would put the
country at continued risk.
Listen to what we heard about that tension from Pat
Cipollone, from General Mark Milley, and Eugene Scalia, who was
the Secretary of Labor.
Mr. Cipollone. And then after that some people were resigning,
obviously, over January 6th. We know who they--they were. Did I
consider it? Yes. Did I do it? No.
______
Mr. Cipollone. Concerned about is if people in the counsel's office
left, who would--who would replace me? And I had some concerns that it
might be somebody who, you know, had been giving bad advice.
______
Secretary Scalia. On the morning of the 7th, the decision I arrived
at was that the most constructive thing I could think of was to seek a
meeting of the Cabinet. You know, I thought that trying to work within
the administration to steady the ship was likely to have, you know,
greater value than simply resigning, after which point I would have
been powerless to really affect things with the administration.
______
Mr. Cipollone. Eugene thought that there should be a Cabinet
meeting.
______
Mr. Heaphy. Do you know why Mark thought it would not be
productive?
Mr. Cipollone. I--I--I don't remember why. I--I think it probably
had something to do with Mark's view of how the President might react
and that he--you know, but things like that.
______
General Milley. There was a couple of the calls where, you know,
Meadows and/or Pompeo, but more Meadows, you know, how--how is the
President doing? Like, Pompeo might say, ``How's the President doing?''
And Meadows would say, ``Well, he's in a really dark place.'' Like
here's one, for example, on the 7th of January. So this is a day after,
right? ``POTUS is very emotional and in a bad place,'' Meadows.
Mr. Kinzinger. As you heard Secretary Scalia wanted
President Trump to convene a Cabinet meeting. He put his
request in a memo to the President, and here is what it said.
You can see that Secretary Scalia recommended that the
President ``No longer publicly question the election results.
After Wednesday, no one can deny this is harmful.''
Secretary Scalia also highlighted the importance of the
public knowing the President would invoke his Cabinet in
decision making and not ``certain private individuals.''
Though Secretary Scalia did not say it, he was referring to
Rudy Giuliani and the rest of the so-called clown car working
with President Trump to try to overturn the election. Secretary
Scalia understood that the President needed to do more to
reassure the public about the last few weeks of the Trump
administration.
Mr. Pottinger, when you made the decision to resign, did
you walk out of the White House immediately?
Mr. Pottinger. No. I wanted to first talk to my immediate
boss that was the National Security Advisor, Robert O'Brien.
Robert O'Brien was traveling on the 6th. I reached him at about
4:30 p.m. and told him that I was submitting my resignation. He
accepted the resignation. But he also asked whether I could
stay until he could get back to the White House, and I agreed
to that. We both wanted to make sure that I was leaving in a
responsible way.
We still have foreign adversaries to worry about, you know,
hackers, terrorists, nation-states, and I did not want to leave
my chair empty given that I was the top National security
staffer in the White House. So, I ended up staying at my desk
through the night. When Robert O'Brien arrived back at the
White House the next morning, the morning of the 7th, I
debriefed with him and left for the last time.
Mr. Kinzinger. So, you and I both share a passion for
National security of our country. Can you share with me, what
is your view on how January 6th impacted our National security?
Mr. Pottinger. Well, when you have a Presidential
transition, even under the best circumstances, it's a time of
vulnerability. It's a time of vulnerability. For--when you have
a contested election, I was certainly concerned that some of
our adversaries would be tempted to probe or test U.S. resolve.
As an example, in late December, the Iranian Government
attacked the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad. They did that using some
of their terrorist proxies.
President Trump did handle that. He sent a very clear
warning to the ayatollah and his regime, which I think had a
useful effect. I think that we would have handled other threats
of that nature, and luckily no other threats materialized
before the inauguration on the 20th.
But our National security was harmed in a different way by
the 6th of January, and that is that it--I think it emboldened
our enemies by helping give them ammunition to feed a narrative
that our system of government doesn't work, that the United
States is in decline. China, the Putin regime in Russia,
Tehran, they're fond of pushing those kinds of narratives.
By the way, they're wrong. You know, we've been hearing for
the entirety of U.S. history from kings and despots that the
United States is in decline, and those kings and despots have
been proven wrong every single time. But, nonetheless, January
6th helped feed a perception that I think emboldens our
adversaries.
You know, the other part I think is simply our allies. I
heard from a lot of friends in Europe, in Asia, allies, close
friends and supporters of the United States, that they were
concerned about the health of our democracy. So, I think it's
incumbent upon us to put their minds at ease, to put our own
hearts at ease by investigating what happened on the 6th and
making sure that it never happens again.
Mr. Kinzinger. Look, I've always said democracies are not
defined by bad days; they're defined by how they recover from
those bad days. That's what we're doing here, is to bring
accountability to that so we can actually come back even
stronger than when we went into January 6th.
Ms. Matthews, as you left the White House for the last time
that night on January 6th, what did you think Americans needed
to hear from President Trump?
Ms. Matthews. I think that the American people needed to
hear and see him publicly commit to a peaceful or at least
orderly transition of power. In the aftermath of the Capitol
attack, it wasn't just enough for us to ask him to condemn the
violence. He needed to agree that he would peacefully transfer
power over to the incoming administration because that's one of
our fundamentals in what it means to live in a democracy.
So, that evening when I resigned, the resignation statement
that I drafted, I referenced this, and I said our Nation needs
a peaceful transfer of power in hopes that it would put some
sort of public pressure on the White House and President Trump
to publicly agree to an orderly transition.
Mr. Kinzinger. Thank you.
I yield to my friend from Virginia.
Mrs. Luria. Thank you, Mr. Kinzinger.
The staff who remained at the White House on the morning of
January 7th knew the President needed to address the Nation
again and they had a speech prepared for him that morning, but
he refused for hours to give it.
As you heard Cassidy Hutchinson testify previously,
President Trump finally agreed to record an address to the
Nation later that evening, the evening of January 7th, because
of concerns he might be removed from power under the 25th
Amendment or by impeachment. We know these threats were real.
Sean Hannity said so himself in a text message that day to
Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany.
He wrote: ``No more stolen election talk. Yes, impeachment
and 25th Amendment are real.''
We obtained the never-before-seen raw footage of the
President recording his address to the Nation that day on
January 7th, more than 24 hours after the last time he had
addressed the Nation from the Rose Garden. Let's talk a look.
White House Staff. Whenever you're ready, sir.
President Trump. I would like to begin by addressing the heinous
attack yesterday----
______
President Trump [continuing]. And to those who broke the law, you
will pay. You do not represent our movement. You do not represent our
country. And if you broke the law--I can't say that. I'm not gonna--I
already said you will pay.
______
President Trump. The demonstrators who infiltrated the Capitol have
defied the seat of--it's defiled, right? See, I can't see it very well.
I'll do this. I'm going to do this. Let's go.
______
President Trump. But this election is now over. Congress has
certified the results. I don't want to say the election's over. I just
want to say Congress has certified the results without saying the
election's over, okay?
Ms. Trump. But Congress has--now Congress has----
President Trump. Yeah, right.
Ms. Trump. Now Congress----
President Trump. I didn't say over. So, let--let me see. Go to the
paragraph before.
______
President Trump. Okay? I would like to begin by addressing the
heinous attack yesterday. Yesterday is a hard word for me.
Ms. Trump. Just take it out. Say ``heinous attack.''
White House Staff. Say ``heinous attack on our Nation.''
President Trump. Ah, good. Take the word ``yesterday'' out because
it doesn't work. The heinous attack on our country. Say ``on our
country.'' Want to say that?
Ms. Trump. No, keep it.
______
President Trump. My only goal was to ensure the integrity of the
vote--my only goal was to ensure the integrity of the vote.
Mrs. Luria. On January 7th, 1 day after he incited an
insurrection based on a lie, President Trump still could not
say that the election was over.
Mr. Pottinger, you've taken the oath multiple times in the
Marines and as an official in the Executive branch.
Can you please share with us your view about the oath of
office and how that translates into accepting election results
and a transfer of power?
Mr. Pottinger. Sure. You know, this isn't the first time
that we've had a close election in this country. President
Trump certainly had every right to challenge in court the
results of these various elections. But, once you've had due
process under the law, you have to conform with the law, no
matter how bitter the result. Once you've presented your
evidence in court, judges have heard that evidence. Judges have
ruled. If you continue to contest an election, you're not just
contesting an election anymore; you're actually challenging the
Constitution itself. You are challenging the societal norms
that allow us to remain unified.
I think that one example, for example, you've got Vice
President Richard Nixon back in 1960 had lost the hard-fought
election against Senator John F. Kennedy. There were
irregularities in that vote according to a lot of the
histories, and a lot of Vice President Nixon's supporters asked
him to fight. Contest it. Don't concede. But, in one of his
finest moments, Vice President Nixon said no. He said it would
tear the country to pieces, and he conceded to Jack Kennedy and
announced that he was going to support him as the next
President.
We have an example of a Democratic candidate for President,
Vice President Al Gore, who faced a very similar dilemma. He
strongly disagreed with the Supreme Court decision that lost
his election bid and allowed President George W. Bush to take
office, but he gave a speech of concession in late December--
mid- or late December 2000, where he said: This is for the sake
of the unity of us as a people and for the strength of our
democracy, I also am going to concede. I'm going to support the
new President.
His speech is actually a pretty good model, I think, for
any candidate for any office up to and including the President
and from any party to read, particularly right now. You know,
the oath that our Presidents take, it's very similar to the
oath of office I took as a U.S. Marine officer and the oath I
took as a White House official. It is to support and defend the
Constitution. It's to protect the Constitution, to bear truth,
faith, and allegiance to the Constitution. It is a sacred oath.
It's an oath that we take before our families. We take that
oath before God.
I think that we have an obligation to live by that oath. I
do still believe that we have the most ingenious system of
government on Earth, despite its imperfections. I don't envy
countries that don't have this system that actually allows for
a predictable, peaceful transfer of government every 4 to 8
years, and it's not something that we should take for granted.
Mrs. Luria. Thank you.
As we heard at the start of the hearing, in the immediate
aftermath of January 6th, Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy
understood that President Trump bore responsibility for that
day and should have taken immediate action to stop the
violence. He was even more candid in calls with Republican
colleagues. As you'll hear in a moment, recordings of some of
these calls that were made were later published by The New York
Times, the context for these calls was that a resolution had
been introduced in the House calling for Vice President Pence
and the Cabinet to remove President Trump from power under the
25th Amendment.
Let's listen.
Mr. McCarthy. I've had it with this guy. What he did is
unacceptable. Nobody can defend that, and nobody should defend it.
______
Mr. McCarthy. The only discussions I would have with him is that I
think this will pass, and it would be my recommendation he should
resign. I mean, that would be my take, but I don't think he would take
it, but I don't know.
______
Mr. McCarthy. But let me be very clear to all of you, and I've been
very clear to the President. He bears responsibility for his words and
actions, no ifs, ands, or buts. I asked him personally today does he
hold responsibility for what happened, does he feel bad about what
happened. He told me he does have some responsibility for what
happened, and he'd need to acknowledge that.
Mrs. Luria. President Trump has never publicly acknowledged
his responsibility for the attack. The only time he apparently
did so was in that private call with Kevin McCarthy. There's
something else President Trump has never acknowledged: The
names and the memories of the officers who died following the
attack on the Capitol.
We're honored to be joined tonight by police and first
responders who bravely protected us on January 6th. Your
character and courage give us hope that democracy can and
should prevail, even in the face of a violent insurrection. We
on this dais can never thank you enough for what you did to
protect our democracy.
On January 9th, two of President Trump's top campaign
officials texted each other about the President's glaring
silence on the tragic death of Capitol Police Officer Brian
Sicknick, who succumbed to his injuries the night of January
7th.
His campaign officials were Tim Murtaugh, Trump's director
of communication, and one of his deputies, Matthew Wolking.
Their job was to convince people to vote for President Trump,
so they knew his heart, his mind, and his voice as well as
anyone, and they knew how he connects with his supporters.
Here's what they had to say about their boss:
Murtaugh said: ``Also shitty not to have acknowledged the
death of the Capitol Police Officer.''
Wolking responded: ``That's enraging to me. Everything he
said about supporting law enforcement was a lie.''
To which Murtaugh replied: ``You know what this is, of
course, if he acknowledged the dead cop, he'd be implicitly
faulting the mob. And he won't do that because they're his
people, and he would also be close to acknowledging that what
he'd lit at the rally got out of control. No way he
acknowledges something that could ultimately be called his
fault. No way.''
President Trump did not then and does not now have the
character or courage to say to the American people what his own
people know to be true. He is responsible for the attack on the
Capitol on January 6th.
Thank you, and I yield to the gentleman from Illinois.
Mr. Kinzinger. Thank you, Mrs. Luria.
Tonight's testimony and evidence is as sobering as it is
straightforward. Within minutes of stepping off the Ellipse
stage, Donald Trump knew about the violent attack on the
Capitol. From the comfort of his dining room, he watched on TV
as the attack escalated.
He sent tweets that inflamed and expressed support for the
desire of some to literally kill Vice President Mike Pence.
For 3 hours, he refused to call off the attack. Donald
Trump refused to take the urgent advice he received that day,
not from his political opponents or from the liberal media, but
from his own family, his own friends, his own staff, and his
own advisers.
In the midst of an attack, when there was no time for
politics, the people closest to Trump told him the truth: It
was his supporters attacking the Capitol, and he alone could
get through to them. So, they pled for him to act, to place his
country above himself. Still he refused to lead and to meet the
moment to honor his oath.
It was only once the Vice President and Members of Congress
were in secure locations and the officers defending the Capitol
began to turn the tide, that then-President Trump engaged in
the political theater of telling the mob to go home. Even then,
he told them all they were special and that he loved them.
Whatever your politics, whatever you think about the
outcome of the election, we as Americans must all agree on
this: Donald Trump's conduct on January 6th was a supreme
violation of his oath of office and a complete dereliction of
his duty to our Nation. It is a stain on our history. It is a
dishonor to all those who have sacrificed and died in service
of our democracy.
When we present our full findings, we will recommend
changes to laws and policies to guard against another January
6th. The reason that's imperative is that the forces Donald
Trump ignited that day have not gone away. The militant,
intolerant ideologies, the militias, the alienation and the
disaffection, the weird fantasies and disinformation, they're
all still out there ready to go. That's the elephant in the
room.
But, if January 6th has reminded us of anything, I pray it
has reminded us of this: Laws are just words on paper. They
mean nothing without public servants dedicated to the rule of
law and who are held accountable by a public that believes
oaths matter more than party tribalism or the cheap thrill of
scoring political points.
We the people must demand more of our politicians and
ourselves. Oaths matter. Character matters. Truth matters. If
we do not renew our faith and commitment to these principles,
this great experiment of ours, our shining beacon on the hill,
will not endure.
I yield to the gentlewoman from Virginia.
Mrs. Luria. Thank you, Mr. Kinzinger.
Throughout our hearings, we've provided many facts and
painted a vivid picture of the events of January 6th: The
violence; the human toll, both emotional and physical,
including the tragic loss of life; the threats to our
Constitution, the rule of law, and the danger to this Nation, a
Nation we all love as Americans.
In tonight's hearing, we've gone into great detail about
the events inside the White House on January 6th. We've
described how the President of the United States, who was bound
by oath to the Constitution and by duty to ensure the laws are
faithfully executed, took no action when the cornerstone of our
democracy, a peaceful transition of power, was under attack.
But it's more than that. Donald Trump summoned a violent
mob and promised to lead that mob to the Capitol to compel
those he thought would cave to that kind of pressure. When he
was thwarted in his effort to lead the armed uprising, he
instigated the attackers to target the Vice President with
violence, a man who just wanted to do his constitutional duty.
So, in the end, this is not as it may appear, a story of
inaction in a time of crisis. But, instead, it was the final
action of Donald Trump's own plan to usurp the will of the
American people and remain in power.
Not until it was clear that his effort to violently disrupt
or delay the counting of the election results had failed did he
send his message--a message to his supporters in which he
commiserated with their pain and he told them affectionately to
go home. That was not the message of condemnation and just
punishment for those who broke the law that we expect from a
President, whose oath and duty is to ensure the laws are
faithfully executed. But, instead, it was his newest version of
``stand back and stand by.''
To me, this is personal. I first swore an oath to support
and defend the Constitution against enemies, foreign and
domestic, when I entered the U.S. Naval Academy at age 17. I
spent two decades on ships at sea defending our Nation from
known and identifiable foreign enemies who sought to do us
harm. I never imagined that enemy would come from within. I was
not as prescient as Abraham Lincoln, who 23 years before the
Civil War said: ``If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves
be its author and its finisher.''
Donald Trump was the author, and we the people, for
ourselves and our posterity, should not let Donald Trump be a
finisher.
Thank you. I yield to the Vice Chair.
Vice Chair Cheney. Thank you very much, Mrs. Luria.
I want to thank our witnesses for joining us today. The
Members of the Select Committee may have additional questions
for today's witnesses, and we ask that you respond
expeditiously in writing to those questions.
Without objection, Members will be permitted 10 business
days to submit statements for the record, including opening
remarks and additional questions from our witnesses.
I'd now like to turn things to Chairman Thompson for a few
closing words.
Chairman Thompson. The Members of the Committee and I
appreciate and thank all persons who have come forward
voluntarily to provide information to help protect our
democracy. Our work continues. As we made clear throughout
these hearings, our investigation is going forward. We continue
to receive new information every day. We are pursuing many
additional witnesses for testimony. We will reconvene in
September to continue laying out our findings to the American
people and pushing for accountability.
In the first hearing of this series, I asked the American
people to consider the facts and judge for themselves. The
facts are clear and unambiguous. I thank the American people
for their attention over the past several weeks. I wish you all
a pleasant evening.
Vice Chair Cheney. Let me, again, thank our witnesses
today. We've seen bravery and honor in these hearings.
Ms. Matthews and Mr. Pottinger, both of you will be
remembered for that, as will Cassidy Hutchinson. She sat here
alone, took the oath and testified before millions of
Americans. She knew all along that she would be attacked by
President Trump and by the 50-,
60-, and 70-year-old men who hide themselves behind executive
privilege. But, like our witnesses today, she has courage, and
she did it anyway.
Cassidy, Sarah, and our other witnesses including, Officer
Caroline Edwards, Shaye Moss and her mother, Ruby Freeman, are
an inspiration to American women and to American girls. We owe
a debt to all of those who have and will appear here.
That brings me to another point. This Committee has shown
you the testimony of dozens of Republican witnesses, those who
served President Trump loyally for years. The case against
Donald Trump in these hearings is not made by witnesses who
were his political enemies. It is instead a series of
confessions by Donald Trump's own appointees, his own friends,
his own campaign officials, people who worked for him for
years, and his own family. They have come forward, and they
have told the American people the truth.
For those of you who seem to think the evidence would be
different if Republican Leader McCarthy had not withdrawn his
nominees from this Committee, let me ask you this: Do you
really think Bill Barr is such a delicate flower that he would
wilt under cross-examination? Pat Cipollone? Eric Herschmann?
Jeff Rosen? Richard Donoghue? Of course they aren't. None of
our witnesses are.
At one point in 2016, when he was first running for office,
Donald Trump said this: ``I could stand in the middle of Fifth
Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters.''
That quote came to mind last week when audio from Trump
adviser Steve Bannon surfaced from October 31, 2020, just a few
days before the Presidential election. Let's listen.
Mr. Bannon. And what Trump's going to do is declare victory, right?
He's going to declare victory, but that doesn't mean he's a winner.
He's just gonna say he's a winner.
______
Mr. Bannon. The Democrats--more of our people vote early that
count. Theirs vote in mail. And so they're going to have a natural
disadvantage and Trump's going to take advantage--that's our strategy.
He's gonna declare himself a winner. So, when you wake up Wednesday
morning, it's going to be a firestorm.
______
Mr. Bannon. Also--also, if Trump is--if Trump is losing by 10 or 11
o'clock at night, it's going to be even crazier because he's gonna sit
right there and say they stole it. If Biden's winning, Trump is going
to do some crazy shit.
Vice Chair Cheney. Of course, 4 days later, President Trump
declared victory when his own campaign advisers told him he had
absolutely no basis to do so. What the new Steve Bannon audio
demonstrates is that Donald Trump's plan to falsely claim
victory in 2020, no matter what the facts actually were, was
premeditated. Perhaps worse, Donald Trump believed he could
convince his voters to buy it, whether he had any actual
evidence of fraud or not. The same thing continued to occur
from election day onward until January 6th. Donald Trump was
confident that he could convince his supporters the election
was stolen, no matter how many lawsuits he lost, and he lost
scores of them.
He was told over and over again in immense detail that the
election was not stolen. There was no evidence of widespread
fraud. It didn't matter. Donald Trump was confident he could
persuade his supporters to believe whatever he said, no matter
how outlandish, and ultimately that they could be summoned to
Washington to help him remain President for another term.
As we showed you last week, even President Trump's legal
team led by Rudy Giuliani, knew they had no actual evidence to
demonstrate the election was stolen. Again, it didn't matter.
Here's the worst part: Donald Trump knows that millions of
Americans who supported him would stand up and defend our
Nation were it threatened. They would put their lives and their
freedom at stake to protect her. He is preying on their
patriotism. He is preying on their sense of justice. On January
6th, Donald Trump turned their love of country into a weapon
against our Capitol and our Constitution.
He has purposely created the false impression that America
is threatened by a foreign force controlling voting machines or
that a wave of tens of millions of false ballots were secretly
ejected into our election system or that ballot workers have
secret thumb drives and are stealing elections with them. All
complete nonsense.
We must remember that we cannot abandon the truth and
remain a free Nation. In late November 2020, while President
Trump was still pursuing lawsuits, many of us were urging him
to put any genuine evidence of fraud forward in the courts and
to accept the outcome those cases. As January 6th approached, I
circulated a memo to my Republican colleagues explaining why
our congressional proceedings to count electoral votes could
not be used to change the outcome of the election.
But what I did not know at the time was that President
Trump's own advisers, also Republicans, also conservatives,
including his White House counsel, his Justice Department, his
campaign officials, they were all telling him almost exactly
the same thing I was telling my colleagues: There was no
evidence of fraud or irregularities sufficient to change the
election outcome. Our courts had ruled. It was over.
Now we know that it didn't matter what any of us said
because Donald Trump wasn't looking for the right answer
legally or the right answer factually. He was looking for a way
to remain in office.
Let's put that aside for a moment and focus just on what we
saw today. In our hearing tonight you saw an American President
faced with a stark and unmistakable choice between right and
wrong. There was no ambiguity. No nuance. Donald Trump made a
purposeful choice to violate his oath of office, to ignore the
on-going violence against law enforcement to threaten our
constitutional order. There is no way to excuse that behavior.
It was indefensible.
Every American must consider this: Can a President who is
willing to make the choices Donald Trump made during the
violence of January 6th ever be trusted with any position of
authority in our great Nation again?
In this room, in 1918, the Committee on Women's Suffrage
convened to discuss and debate whether women should be granted
the right to vote. This room is full of history. We on this
Committee know we have a solemn obligation not to idly squander
what so many Americans have fought and died for.
Ronald Reagan's great ally Margaret Thatcher said this: Let
it never be said that the dedication of those who love freedom
is less than the determination of those who would destroy it.
Let me assure every one of you this: Our Committee
understands the gravity of this moment, the consequences for
our Nation. We have much work yet to do, and we will see you
all in September.
I request those in the hearing room remain seated until the
Capitol Police have escorted witnesses and Members from the
room.
Without objection, the Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 10:45 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]