[Senate Hearing 117-22]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 117-22
DEVELOPING THE AVIATION WORKFORCE
OF THE 21ST CENTURY
=======================================================================
FIELD HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON AVIATION SAFETY,
OPERATIONS, AND INNOVATION
of the
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE,
SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
MAY 13, 2022
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce, Science, and
Transportation
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available online: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
55-076 PDF WASHINGTON : 2024
SENATE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington, Chair
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota ROGER WICKER, Mississippi, Ranking
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut JOHN THUNE, South Dakota
BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii ROY BLUNT, Missouri
EDWARD MARKEY, Massachusetts TED CRUZ, Texas
GARY PETERS, Michigan DEB FISCHER, Nebraska
TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin JERRY MORAN, Kansas
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska
JON TESTER, Montana MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona TODD YOUNG, Indiana
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada MIKE LEE, Utah
BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin
JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia Virginia
RICK SCOTT, Florida
CYNTHIA LUMMIS, Wyoming
Lila Helms, Staff Director
Melissa Porter, Deputy Staff Director
George Greenwell, Policy Coordinator and Security Manager
John Keast, Republican Staff Director
Crystal Tully, Republican Deputy Staff Director
Steven Wall, General Counsel
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SUBCOMMITTEE ON AVIATION SAFETY, OPERATIONS, AND INNOVATION
KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona, Chair TED CRUZ, Texas, Ranking
TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois JOHN THUNE, South Dakota
JON TESTER, Montana ROY BLUNT, Missouri
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada JERRY MORAN, Kansas
JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado MIKE LEE, Utah
RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
Virginia
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on May 13, 2022..................................... 1
Statement of Senator Sinema...................................... 1
Witnesses
Dana Donati, Chief Executive Officer, United Aviate Academy...... 4
Prepared statement........................................... 6
Anette M. Karlsson, Ph.D., Chancellor, Prescott, Arizona Campus,
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University........................... 8
Prepared statement........................................... 10
Jonathan G. Ornstein, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Mesa
Air Group...................................................... 12
Prepared statement........................................... 15
Greg Wilson, Academic Dean for Applied Technology, Pima Community
College........................................................ 17
Prepared statement........................................... 18
Paul Ryder, First Officer UAI-MEC Secretary, Air Line Pilots
Association.................................................... 20
Prepared statement........................................... 21
DEVELOPING THE AVIATION WORKFORCE
OF THE 21ST CENTURY
----------
FRIDAY, MAY 13, 2022
U.S. Senate,
Subcommittee Aviation Safety, Operations, and
Innovation,
Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation,
Goodyear, AZ.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 11 a.m., at
the United Aviate Academy, 1658 S. Litchfield Road, Building
104, Room 125, Goodyear, Arizona 85338, Hon. Kyrsten Sinema,
Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding.
Present: Senator Sinema [presiding.]
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. KYRSTEN SINEMA,
U.S. SENATOR FROM ARIZONA
Senator Sinema. Welcome to the Senate Subcommittee on
Aviation Safety, Operations, and Innovation.
I'd like to start by thanking everyone for joining us today
here in sunny and gorgeous Goodyear, Arizona, for a field
hearing of the Aviation Subcommittee.
As you know, we generally hold our hearings in, Washington,
D.C., and I am delighted to hold this hearing today in sunny
and beautiful Arizona, much better than in Washington, D.C.
Also being here at home in Arizona allows the Subcommittee
to hear directly from Arizonans who spend their time thinking
about aviation and particularly the aviation workforce.
As we think about the aviation industry, safety is the most
important priority and needs to remain the focus of all of our
efforts. I recognize the efforts of aviation safety advocates,
including the families who've lost loved ones in aviation
accidents.
For the United States to remain the global leader on
aviation safety, we need to have both the infrastructure and
the workforce in place to ensure safety. Regarding aviation
infrastructure, I was honored to lead the effort to pass the
bipartisan infrastructure law last year, and I appreciate the
efforts of so many colleagues on both sides of the aisle who
worked together to pass this historic bill that provides
significant investments in highways, bridges, Western water
projects, ports of entry, and public transit, and the largest
investment in our Nation's aviation infrastructure in a
generation.
In total, the bipartisan infrastructure law includes an
additional $25 billion for aviation over 5 years on top of
existing aviation funding. The law dedicates $15 billion in
formula funding directly to airports that can be used to
improve runways, taxiways, and other critical aviation safety
needs.
Our bill also invests $5 billion to a new competitive grant
program focused on modernizing airport terminals and $5 billion
for air traffic control infrastructure.
Over the next 5 years, Arizona airports will receive at
least $360 million under the provisions of our infrastructure
law. In 2022 alone, Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport
will receive over $41 million, Tucson International Airport
will receive over $6 million, and the Phoenix Goodyear Airport,
where we are located today, will receive nearly $300,000 for
infrastructure improvements.
This funding will enable our airports to complete the
maintenance and modernization projects required to safely and
efficiently move Arizonans around the country and welcome
visitors to Arizona.
On the typical day at Sky Harbor, over 1,200 flights arrive
or depart with over 125,000 passengers passing through its
gates.
In addition to aviation infrastructure, the aviation
workforce is another key element to ensuring aviation safety
and ensuring that our aviation economy continues to expand and
modernize.
The COVID-19 pandemic represented the most significant
challenge to our aviation system in decades, and I was proud to
work with the leadership of the Commerce Committee and with
other colleagues on the Aviation Subcommittee to advance
bipartisan efforts to protect the aviation workforce from
massive layoffs.
If you'll recall back to the spring of 2019, passenger
traffic had fallen 95 percent and absent congressional action,
air carriers would have had to furlough hundreds of thousands
of employees, but thanks to the Payroll Support Program and the
CARES Act, we were able to protect those jobs and ensure
continued air service for smaller communities that would have
otherwise lost flights.
On the manufacturing side of the industry, the Aviation
Manufacturing Jobs Protection Program in the American Rescue
Plan Act of 2021 provided key payroll support to aviation
supply chain companies. This provision alone saved over 30,000
jobs across the country.
As we all look forward to a brighter future after COVID, we
are experiencing a tight labor market across the entire economy
with nationwide unemployment rates near historic lows for
months.
Given these national trends and reports of difficulties
filling certain positions at regional airlines, now is a good
time for us to check on the current state of the aviation
workforce.
While pilots are often a point of focus, it's important to
also consider the state of the workforce for all aviation
careers, including the maintenance workers who upkeep our
aircraft and the manufacturers who build new aviation
technologies, not to mention the flight attendants, air traffic
controllers, airport workers, and countless others who
contribute to a safe and enjoyable aviation system. We must
ensure that we have the pipeline to satisfy the future demand
for this wide range of employees.
At a hearing in our Full Committee last week, Secretary of
Transportation Pete Buttigieg identified similar concerns and
indicated that we all needed to work together to support a
stronger pipeline of people into the aviation field and in
order to meet our future needs, I believe we must work harder
to show all Americans that a career in aviation can be an
accessible and rewarding option for them, regardless of their
gender, race, or ethnicity.
Currently, only about 5 percent of pilots are women and
about 6 percent are people of color, according to Federal data.
Cost is also an important consideration. Aviation training can
be an expensive undertaking.
As Americans and our small businesses are seeing increased
prices, particularly with the rising cost of fuel, we should
understand the impact of aviation fuel prices and other
inflationary pressures on pilot training.
As this committee looks forward to reauthorizing the
Federal Aviation Administration next year, we will consider
opportunities to strengthen the pipeline, support opportunities
to diversify the workforce, and consider whether we need to
refine existing programs, such as the FAA Aviation Workforce
Development Grant Program, to ensure that they are effective
tools for workforce development.
And I'm so pleased today to be hosting this subcommittee at
the United Aviate Academy in Goodyear. The academy opened in
January with the goal to expand United Airlines' pipeline for
pilot training and as a pilot academy owned by a major U.S.
airline represents a new model for pilot training in the United
States.
United Airlines plans to train 5,000 new pilots at this
school by 2030 and has the goal that half of the students will
be women or people of color. So I want to start by saying thank
you to the United Aviate Academy for hosting us today and for
selecting Arizona as your home.
This is an exciting time for Arizona aviation. Arizona is a
national leader in many aspects of aviation and we are proud of
the industry's important role in our state.
Arizona's airports along with commercial aviation,
aerospace manufacturing, and research and development
contribute over $100 billion to our state's economy annually,
provide over 200,000 Arizona jobs, and indirectly support
hundreds of thousands of other non-aviation jobs.
We have an excellent panel today with witnesses
representing our host, the United Aviate Academy, along with an
Arizona-based regional airline, a representative from the Air
Line Pilots Association who's helped build the Aviate Academy,
and two Arizona institution of higher education that develop
our aviation workforce.
Our panel will consider the state of the aviation
workforce, how to ensure that we have the appropriate pipeline
of aviation workers for the future, how to ensure that our
aviation workforce is drawing talented professionals from all
backgrounds, and ultimately how to ensure that the U.S.
aviation system remains the gold standard for the world. So
again thank you all for joining us today.
Now I'll introduce our witnesses for today's hearing. Our
first witness is Dana Donati. Ms. Donati is the CEO of the
United Aviate Academy, a position she has held since August
2021. Ms. Donati has over two decades of experience as a pilot,
pilot instructor, and aviation training executive.
Ms. Donati, thank you for joining us today and you're
recognized for your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF DANA DONATI, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, UNITED
AVIATE ACADEMY
Ms. Donati. Good morning, Chairwoman Sinema and members of
the Committee.
I am pleased to be here today to discuss United Airlines
and United Aviate Academy's efforts to develop and diversify
the aviation workforce.
I would like to thank the members of the Committee,
Congress, and the Federal Government for their dedication and
commitment to ensuring the future success of U.S. aviation.
As the aviation industry continues to rebound from the
impact of COVID-19, we are focused on passengers returning to
travel today as well as our long-term growth plans. United will
add 500 aircraft to our fleet in the next 5 years and is
working hard to ensure a robust workforce, including pilots,
flight attendants, and maintenance technicians.
Specifically, we have plans to hire and train 10,000 new
pilots over the next decade, half of them will come from our
Academy cadets.
United decided to invest in our future pilots by creating
United Aviate Academy with the goal to recruit and train the
highest quality, most diverse pilots in the industry.
I would like to thank the United Master Executive Council,
ALPA, and my fellow witness Paul Ryder for their continued
partnership to build the best flight academy in aviation.
On January 27 we celebrated the opening of our Academy at
Phoenix Goodyear Airport, the only flight school wholly owned
by a major airline. The academy has an FAA Part 141
certification, the highest quality certification for a flight
school, and also holds accreditation from the Department of
Education-approved accrediting commission of career schools and
colleges.
Becoming a United pilot is one of the most lucrative
aviation careers currently available and both the Academy and
our Aviate Program provide pathways to that career.
Once a pilot has completed their training at the Academy or
through an Aviate program partner flight school, we offer a
variety of next steps in the career path to build quality hours
toward their commercial airline transport pilot certificate.
These include options to work as a certified flight instructor
or join one of our Part 135 carrier partners. Upon receiving
their ATP, they can fly for one of many United Express partners
before progressing to United.
Moreover, we offer improved career development, mentoring,
and access to United pilots as well as learning tools, access
to senior leadership, site visits and tours, and certain travel
privileges.
However, the financial challenges of becoming a pilot can
be a barrier, particularly for women and people of color.
Earning an ATP in the United States can cost more than a
$100,000 and requires 1,500 hours of flight time.
We are working to reduce this financial barrier with
scholarship programs and innovative financing options through
partnerships, including United and JPMorgan Chase joint
commitment to fund nearly $2.4 million in scholarships for
future aviators attending the Academy.
We cannot solve the financial challenge alone and welcome
partnerships with the government in making aviation careers
more accessible to the next generation.
We support continued and enhanced funding for the aviation
workforce development grants for aircraft pilots and aviation
maintenance technical workers and passage of the Flight
Education Access Act which would provide expanded loan amounts
and payment deferral for pilots to help reduce the financial
challenges for those pursuing a career as an airline pilot.
Beyond just recognizing the lack of diversity in the
aviation field, United Airlines and the Academy are taking real
action to create change in the industry. United leads the
industry in the number of pilots who are women and people of
color but there's still a long way to go.
Today we have 132 students, 77 percent of whom are women or
people of color, who are working to complete a rigorous year-
long training program that sets them up for a career that
reflects United's high standards with a goal for annual
enrollment of 500 students, and in the larger Aviate Pathway
Program, United has also partnered with historically black
colleges and universities as well as partnerships with
organizations, like Sisters of the Sky, Women in Aviation
International, Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals,
Latino Pilots Association, Professional Asian Pilots
Association, and National Gay Pilots Association, to identify
top talent and recruit them into the Aviate Program.
By working directly with these organizations, we are able
to engage prospective students and create awareness about the
career of their dreams.
Our Academy is providing top tier training to all students
with the unique curriculum and access to the most
technologically advanced aircraft in general aviation,
providing an unparalleled training experience that goes above
and beyond typical pilot training efforts.
The curriculum includes upset prevention and recovery
training which is a comprehensive pilot training program
designed to help prevent the Number One fatal threat to air
safety, loss of control in flight.
Additionally, Part 120, Behavior, and Part 141, Training
Program, ensure students are well prepared for careers in a
commercial aviation environment. The curriculum, mentoring, and
aircraft access are all part of what makes the student
experience of the Academy so unique and successful.
In conclusion, as we look ahead, we envision a robust
future for United Aviate Academy.
I would like to take a moment to acknowledge the incredible
students we have here at the Academy. Their dedication to the
aviation industry will ensure a successful future not only for
United and the Aviate Academy but the greater economy at large.
I appreciate the opportunity to appear before this
committee and look forward to answering any questions you may
have.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Donati follows:]
Prepared Statement of Dana Donati, Chief Executive Officer,
United Aviate Academy
Good morning, Chairwoman Sinema, and members of the Committee. I am
pleased to be here today to discuss United Airlines and the United
Aviate Academy efforts to develop and diversify the aviation workforce
and build the greatest airline in the history of aviation. I would like
to thank the members of this Committee, Congress, and the Federal
government for their dedication and commitment to ensuring the future
success of this vital part of the U.S. economy.
As you all know, the COVID-19 pandemic presented unprecedented
challenges for the aviation industry at large. Yet, even during some of
the most difficult times, we kept our plans squarely focused on the
future and made strategic decisions based on the optimistic outlook
that demand would ultimately return. Throughout the past two years,
strong support for protecting the aviation workforce and saving jobs
never wavered and that is why I am speaking to you today.
Long-Term Pilot Supply
As the aviation industry continues to rebound from the impact of
COVID-19, we are focused on passengers returning to travel today as
well as our long-term growth plans. United will add 500 aircraft to our
fleet in the next five years and to meet the demand, United is working
hard to ensure a robust workforce, including pilots, flight attendants,
and maintenance technicians. Specifically, we have plans to hire and
train 10,000 new pilots over the next decade, half of whom will come
from our United Aviate Academy cadets. Many of our competitors also
plan to hire a large number of pilots in the coming years, so United
decided to invest in our future pilots by creating the United Aviate
Academy. Our goal is to recruit and train the highest quality, most
diverse pilots in the industry. I would also like to thank the United
Master Executive Council of the Air Line Pilots Association (UA ALPA)
and my fellow witness, Paul Ryder, for their continued partnership to
build the best flight academy in aviation.
State-of-the-Art United Aviate Academy Facility
On January 27, 2022, the United Aviate Academy, the only flight
school wholly-owned by a major airline, opened at Phoenix Goodyear
Airport. The United Aviate Academy has Part 141 approved Private,
Instrument, Commercial Single-Engine, Commercial Multi-Engine,
Certificated Flight Instructor, Certificated Flight Instructor
Instrument, and Multi-engine Instructor certification--the highest
quality certification for a flight school. The Academy also holds
accreditation from the Department of Education approved Accrediting
Commission of Career Schools and Colleges (ACCSC).
The United Aviate Academy itself is an ideal environment for
students to not only learn but truly thrive in an aviation career. Our
340,000 square-foot facility, which the United Aviate Academy leases
from the City of Phoenix, provides aspiring pilots with industry-
leading resources, equipment, and accommodations. Other benefits
include our fleet of late-model Cirrus SR-20 series single-engine
aircraft, which feature advanced safety characteristics; nearly 50,000
square feet of classroom/office space; multiple aircraft hangars;
dormitory rooms for student housing with ample room for expansion;
proximity to many auxiliary airfields in the Phoenix area; and most
importantly, favorable weather for year-round flight training.
The United Aviate Academy's Mission: Love to Fly, Born to Lead
United Airlines' innovative United Aviate Academy pilot development
program provides those who aspire to a career as a United Captain with
the most direct route to achieving that goal. The United Aviate Academy
is built to accommodate pilots of all experience levels--from those
with zero hours to professional pilots already flying for one of United
Airlines' regional partners.
For instance, an aspiring aviator who joins the United Aviate
Academy in Phoenix with no prior flying experience can become a
private, licensed pilot within two months, training we provide for
free. Within a year, they can start earning income after receiving
their ratings and certificates. Within five years, they can become a
United Airlines pilot.
Direct Pathways to Becoming a United Airlines Pilot
Becoming a United Airlines pilot is one of the most lucrative
aviation careers currently available. United currently has over 12,000
pilots, and Captains of United's Boeing 787s and 777s can earn more
than $350,000 per year and generous benefits, including one of the
highest 401(k) employer contributions in the Nation.
In addition to our Aviate Academy, our Aviate program offers a
career path program for pilots, with increased transparency and clarity
along the path from program entry to flying for United. Once a pilot
has completed their training at the Academy or through an Aviate
program partner flight school, we offer a variety of next steps in the
career path to build quality hours toward their commercial Air
Transport Pilot license (ATP). These include options to work as a
certified flight instructor or join one of our Part 135 carrier
partners. Once a pilot receives their ATP, they can fly for one of the
many United Express partners including Mesa, Commute Air, Air
Wisconsin, and GoJet. Moreover, we offer improved career development,
mentoring, and access to United pilots as well as learning tools and
immediate inclusion in the United family, all with access to senior
leadership, site visits and tours, and certain travel privileges.
However, for many people, achieving this amount of success is
beyond their wildest imagination due to the financial challenges of
becoming a pilot. Earning an ATP in the U.S. can cost more than
$100,000 and requires 1,500 hours of flight time. The cost of becoming
a pilot is a significant barrier to entry for many, particularly women
and people of color. We are working to reduce this barrier at the
United Aviate Academy with scholarship programs and innovative
financing options through our credit union partnership. United and
JPMorgan Chase & Co. have renewed last year's commitment to fund nearly
$2.4 million in scholarships for future aviators attending the United
Aviate Academy. But we cannot solve the financial challenge alone and
welcome partnership with the government in making aviation careers more
accessible to the next generation.
We strongly support continued and enhanced funding for the Aviation
Workforce Development Grants for Aircraft Pilots and Aviation
Maintenance Technical Workers, which was part of the 2018 FAA
reauthorization legislation. Additionally, Congress should pass the
Flight Education Access Act that we expect to be introduced this
summer. This would provide expanded loan amounts and payment deferral
for pilots and help reduce the financial challenges for those who want
to pursue a career as an airline pilot.
The United Aviate Academy's Inaugural Class
Beyond just recognizing the lack of diversity in the aviation
field, United Airlines and the United Aviate Academy are taking real
action to create change in the industry. Attracting, retaining, and
advancing women and people of color in aviation is critical to the U.S.
aviation industry's safety, sustainability, and ability to innovate.
United leads the industry in the number of pilots who are women and
people of color but there is still a long way to go. According to the
U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, only 5.6 percent of pilots across the
industry are women and only 6 percent are people of color.
This past January, the inaugural class of 30 United Aviate Academy
students began their studies, 80 percent of whom are women or people of
color, to complete a rigorous, year-long training program that sets
them up for a career that reflects United's high standard of
professionalism and deep commitment to delivering a safe, caring,
dependable, and efficient travel experience. As of April 25, 2022, the
United Aviate Academy has more than 15,000 current applications, and
more than 10,000 of those applications are from diverse candidates
(American Indian/Alaska Native, Asian, Black/African American,
Hawaiian/Pacific Islander, Hispanic/Latino and not disclosed). More
than 4,000 are women--987 are Black/African American, 858 are Hispanic/
Latino, 31 are American Indian/Alaska Native, and 347 are Asian.
For the inaugural class, the United Aviate Academy received more
than 7,500 applications from aspiring pilots around the country in less
than six months, with nearly 75 percent of those applicants being women
or people of color. After completing their training at the Academy,
students can build flight and leadership experience while working
within the United Aviate Academy pilot development ecosystem at partner
universities, professional flight training organizations, and United
Express carriers on their way to becoming United pilots.
In the larger Aviate pathway program, United Airlines has also
partnered with historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs),
Delaware State University, Elizabeth City State University, and Hampton
University to identify top talent and recruit them into the United
Aviate program. Through the partnership, students will have the
opportunity to join the United Aviate Academy and Aviate program and
connect with dedicated ambassadors and coaches who will help guide them
on the path to a United flight deck.
The United Aviate Academy Curriculum Ensures Quality
The United Aviate Academy is providing top-tier training to all
students. The unique curriculum and access to state-of-the-art
equipment truly provide an unparalleled training experience that goes
above and beyond typical pilot training efforts. United Aviate Academy
students are connected with United pilot mentors, they have access to
Cirrus aircraft for single-engine, and currently using Seminoles for
multi-engine but transitioning the multi-engine fleet to a more
advanced aircraft.
The curriculum includes Upset Prevention and Recovery Training
(UPRT) which is a comprehensive pilot training program designed to help
prevent the #1 fatal threat to air safety--Loss of Control In-Flight
(LOC-I). Additionally, Part 121 behavior in a Part 141 training program
ensures students are well prepared for careers in the commercial
aviation environment, including check rides.
The curriculum, mentoring, and aircraft access are all part of what
makes the student experience at the United Aviate Academy so unique and
successful.
Strategic Partnerships
The United Aviate Academy and United's Aviate program are built on
our important strategic partnerships. We are grateful for our
relationship with the United Airlines' Air Line Pilots Association,
which plays an integral role in driving more qualified candidates to
the doors of the United Aviate Academy and ultimately expanding the
pilot pipeline.
In addition to our union partnership, we are also reaching
candidates through our partnerships with Sisters of the Skies (SOS),
Women in Aviation International (WAI), Organization of Black Aerospace
Professionals (OBAP), Latino Pilot Association (LPA), Professional
Asian Pilot Association (PAPA), and National Gay Pilots Association
(NGPA)--allowing us to engage with potential candidates unlike ever
before. By working directly with these organizations, we are able to
educate prospective students about the benefits of becoming a pilot and
explore scholarship opportunities.
Conclusion
As we look ahead--we envision a robust future for the United Aviate
Academy--one that has an even greater impact on the field of aviation
than it does today.
United Airlines started the United Aviate Academy in an effort to
truly determine its own destiny. We foresee significant and strong
demand in the coming decades, and we believe United's growth plan will
reach its full potential with the help of the United Aviate Academy
recruiting, training, and developing the highest quality of diverse
pilots.
Before I close, I would like to take a moment to acknowledge the
incredible students we have here at the United Aviate Academy. Their
dedication to the aviation industry will ensure a successful future not
only for United Airlines and the United Aviate Academy, but the greater
economy at large.
I appreciate the opportunity to appear before this Committee and
look forward to answering any questions you may have.
Senator Sinema. Thank you.
Our second witness is Dr. Anette Karlsson. Since 2019 Dr.
Karlsson has served as the Chancellor for the Prescott Campus
of Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University.
Dr. Karlsson earned her Ph.D. in Mechanical and Aerospace
Engineering and has extensive experience in academia and with
aerospace manufacturers.
Dr. Karlsson, thank you for joining us today and you're
recognized for your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF ANETTE M. KARLSSON, Ph.D.,
CHANCELLOR, PRESCOTT, ARIZONA CAMPUS,
EMBRY-RIDDLE AERONAUTICAL UNIVERSITY
Dr. Karlsson. Thank you, Senator Sinema. Thank you for
giving me a chance to talk about the contribution Embry-Riddle
Aeronautical University has to the aviation industry.
We are one of the top producers of U.S. commercial airline
pilots in the country and our mission is to prepare students
for productive careers and leadership roles in business,
government, and the military.
Through our commitment to excellence in education, we are
preparing a highly qualified future aviation talent pool,
building the current workforce capacity to support U.S.
competitiveness.
I will briefly summarize some key challenges and suggest
potential solutions and opportunities for the future aviation
workforce.
First, I would like to repeat what I've already said that
the aviation workforce shortage is real. It has been projected
that we will need about 130,000 new pilots and 132,000 new
technicians by 2040 in North America alone.
This represents a growing problem for America's
competitiveness because aviation is a major driver of our
economy. FAA reports that all civil aviation activities amount
to more than 5 percent of the U.S. Gross Domestic Product
supporting almost 11 million jobs.
At Embry-Riddle, our students are securing jobs before they
graduate, but many more graduates are needed to fulfill future
needs. We must tap into the entire talent pool, meaning all
women and men from all walks of life.
This March, FAA Women in Aviation Advisory Board concluded
that attracting, retaining, and advancing women in aviation is
critical to the U.S. aviation industry's safety,
sustainability, profitability, and ability to innovate.
Only about 2.6 percent of aviation maintenance technicians
and 4.6 percent of airline transport pilots in the United
States are women. These statistics have not changed much in the
last few decades, but at Embry-Riddle we do see progress every
day.
Last month, for example, Embry-Riddle sent an all-female
team to the Worldwide Aerospace Maintenance Competition. Such
visibility is key. Students need role models and mentors to
pursue a profession starting at their earliest stages of their
education.
Train the trainer efforts could turn teachers, guidance
counselors, and others into Ambassadors for aviation. Young
people also need to be introduced to the full range of aviation
careers, airport managers, flight positions, aerospace
engineers, and so on. This is why Embry-Riddle offers summer
camps and open online courses to introduce young students to
aviation.
Financial support for aviation students remains paramount.
To address that need, Embry-Riddle collaborates with industry
partners. For example, the Boeing Company established an
endowment to provide opportunities to broad spectrum of
students, including veterans, women, and people of color.
In addition, Embry-Riddle and our airline partners offer
pathway programs where our students receive incentives and
training working toward first officer position which is their
first job as a commercial pilot.
Finally, Embry-Riddle investigates virtual reality training
system coupled with in-person training. Even though we've seen
some positive results, rigorous research is needed to possibly
validate VR technologies as an efficient training tool.
Currently, FAA does not allow pilots to count time in VR
flight simulation to its total pilot hours, but we've seen it
can help them move toward their similar flights and so on
quicker.
In closing, our suggestion for the aviation industry's
workforce are threefold.
First, we're optimistic that implementation of the
recommendations set forth in the FAA Women in Aviation Advisory
Board report will help the industry to reach a much broader
talent pool, including women and under-represented minorities,
thereby enhancing the aviation workforce.
Second, we note that European Aviation Safety Agency
qualified its first VR-based flight training device late last
year. However, further research in the United States will be
needed to evaluate the effectiveness of such training programs,
but it could possibly lead to an integral part of the flight
training programs.
Third, we will continue to urge industry-university
partnership to provide aviation students with financial
support, mentorship, and encouragement they need to succeed.
So thank you again for this opportunity. I am looking
forward to answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Karlsson follows:]
Prepared Statement of Anette M. Karlsson, Ph.D., Chancellor, Prescott,
Arizona Campus, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
Good morning, Chairwoman Sinema, Ranking Member Cruz, and
subcommittee members. Thank you for this opportunity to discuss the
U.S. aviation workforce. Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University is the
Nation's top producer of U.S. commercial airline pilots, with a fleet
of training aircraft that makes us the size of a small regional
airline.
Embry-Riddle's mission is to prepare students for productive
careers and leadership roles in business, government agencies, and the
military. Through our commitment to excellence in education, we are
preparing a highly qualified future aviation talent pool and building
current workforce capacity to support U.S. competitiveness.
I will briefly summarize key challenges and suggest potential
solutions and opportunities.
First, I would like to emphasize that the aviation workforce
shortage is real and it is a critical problem for the U.S. economy.
Between 2021 and 2040, The Boeing Company has projected, that the
aviation industry will need 612,000 new pilots and 626,000 new aviation
maintenance technicians.\1\ Across North America, specifically, Boeing
estimates that we will need 130,000 new pilots and 132,000 technicians
by 2040.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ ``Pilot and Technician Outlook: 2021-2040.'' The Boeing
Company, .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
This represents a growing problem for American competitiveness
because aviation is a major driver of our economy. The U.S. Federal
Aviation Administration has reported that all civil aviation activity
amounted to more than 5.2 percent of the U.S. Gross Domestic Product,
supporting10.9 million jobs.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\2\ ``The Economic Impacts of Civil Aviation in the U.S. Economy:
State Supplement.'' U.S. Department of Transportation, Federal Aviation
Administration, November 2020, .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
At Embry-Riddle, graduates of our flight and maintenance degree
programs are securing jobs before they receive their diplomas. But,
many more graduates are needed to fill jobs. That will require tapping
the entire talent pool--meaning men and women from all walks of life,
including veterans and members of the military who are transitioning
back into civilian life. In March this year, the FAA's Women in
Aviation Advisory Board concluded that ``attracting, retaining, and
advancing women in aviation is critical to the U.S. aviation industry's
safety, sustainability, profitability, and ability to innovate.'' \3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\3\ ``Breaking Barriers for Women in Aviation: Flight Plan for the
Future.'' U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, Women in Aviation
Advisory Board, March 2022, .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
We agree that cultivating transformative thinking by recruiting a
diversity of perspectives is particularly important at this moment, as
the aviation industry faces both opportunities and challenges--related
not only to the workforce shortage, but also to increasing aviation
cybersecurity threats and the exponential growth of commercial space
enterprise. We, therefore, applaud United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby, who
last year announced that the United Aviate Academy would recruit from
the broadest possible spectrum of talent, with half of its student
pilots being exceptionally qualified women and people of color.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\4\ ``United Sets New Diversity Goal: 50 percent of Students at New
Pilot Training Academy to be Women and People of Color.'' United
Airlines, April 6, 2021, .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Such bold steps are critical to ensure a robust aviation workforce
for the future. Nationwide, only 2.6 percent of all aviation
maintenance technicians and 4.6 percent are Airline Transport Pilots in
the United States are women.\5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\5\ Lutte, Rebecca K. ``Women in Aviation: A Workforce Report 2021
Edition.'' Aviation Institute, University of Nebraska at Omaha, in
cooperation with Women in Aviation International, December 2021,
.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although these overall statistics haven't changed much in
decades,\6\ progress is possible. Many airlines have in fact achieved
significantly greater equality on the flight deck than the national
averages.\7\ And at Embry-Riddle, we see progress every day. Last
month, for example, Embry-Riddle sent an all-female team to the
worldwide Aerospace Maintenance Competition. A recent panel of highly
accomplished aviation graduates were all women, including three who are
women of color. We were also proud to have six of our graduates on the
Women in Aviation Advisory Board--among a remarkable assemblage of 30
female CEOs, captains, first officers, university presidents, and other
leaders.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\6\ Ibid.
\7\ ``How Major Airlines are Measuring Up On Gender Equality in the
Flight Deck.'' International Society of Women Airline Pilots, 2021, .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
That level of visibility is key. In order to know that they can
``be it,'' students must ``see it''--in the form of role models and
mentors, and through confidence-building camps, at the earliest stages
of education. Young people also need to be introduced to a full range
of aviation careers--from mechanic to airport manager, flight
physician, accident investigator, and more. Raising awareness is why
initiatives such as Women in Aviation International's Girls in Aviation
Day are so essential. It's also why Embry-Riddle offers summer camps
and MOOCs, or massively open online courses, to introduce girls to
aviation.
Most importantly, financial support for aviation students remains
paramount. The FAA's Women in Aviation Advisory Board pointed out in
its report that, ``Next to culture, cost is the biggest barrier for
women wanting to enter aviation careers.'' \8\ To address that need,
Embry-Riddle collaborates with industry partners. For example, The
Boeing Company established an endowment to provide opportunities to a
broader spectrum of aviators, including exceptional veterans, women,
and people of color. We are partnering with Spirit Airlines in a
similar fashion. Embry-Riddle and its airline partners also offer
career pilot pathway programs for outstanding male and female aviation
students. Through these pathway programs, exceptional students receive
incentives and training while working toward first officer positions.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\8\ ``Breaking Barriers for Women in Aviation: Flight Plan for the
Future.'' U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, Women in Aviation
Advisory Board, March 2022, .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, Embry-Riddle is speeding the flow of aviators into the
workforce by leveraging virtual reality training systems, coupled with
in-person training. Our ``VR-first'' training program allowed a group
of 58 flight students to reduce the time it took them to complete a
first solo flight by more than 30 percent. VR-first training shows
promise as one way to help meet the aviation industry's workforce
needs, but rigorous research is needed to validate VR technologies for
specific uses; currently, the FAA does not allow pilots to count time
in VR flight simulations toward Total Pilot Hours.
In closing, our suggestions for the aviation industry's workforce
are three-fold:
1. First, we are optimistic that implementation of the
recommendations set forth in the FAA Women in Aviation Advisory
Board report will help the industry reach a much broader talent
pool, thereby enhancing the aviation workforce.
2. Second, we would note that the European Union Aviation Safety
Agency qualified its first virtual reality-based flight
training device last year. We hope that further research in the
United States will soon validate the effectiveness of high-
quality virtual reality-based training technologies, leading to
their broader acceptance as an integral part of flight-training
programs.
3. Third, we will continue to urge new and more innovative industry-
university partnerships to provide aviation students with the
financial support, mentorship, and encouragement they need to
succeed.
Thank you again for this opportunity. I look forward to answering
your questions.
Senator Sinema. Thank you.
Our next witness is Jonathan Ornstein. He is the Chairman
and the CEO of Mesa Air Group, which operates Mesa Airlines, a
regional airline headquartered in Phoenix.
Mr. Ornstein has been the CEO of Mesa since 1998, making
him one of the longest-serving CEOs in U.S. aviation.
Thank you for joining us today. You're recognized for your
opening statement.
STATEMENT OF JONATHAN G. ORNSTEIN, CHAIRMAN
AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, MESA AIR GROUP
Mr. Ornstein. Thank you, Chair Sinema, and I told you I'd
need a pilot to figure this out.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Ornstein. OK. Thank you, Chair Sinema and Members of
the Committee.
As she mentioned, my name is Jonathan Ornstein. I'm the
Chairman and CEO of Mesa here in Phoenix. I began my aviation
career on the ramp throwing bags at a little company in Los
Angeles. I've been CEO for 23 years which, as you mentioned,
makes me maybe the longest-serving CEO but also by default
probably makes me the dumbest.
I want to thank you very much for holding this hearing on
such an important issue. I promised my advisors I'd stick to
the script, but given the critical importance of this issue,
I'm going to apologize in advance if I get a little emotional
or passionate.
You know, I wish it could be boiled down to facts on a
piece of paper, but this is really about real people's lives,
their future, and the families that they provide for.
Mesa was founded in 1982 in Farmington, New Mexico, by a
true visionary in aviation and my mentor, Mechanic Larry Risley
and his wife Janie. I joined Mesa in 1987. We had six small
aircraft. By 1992 we had over 200 aircraft, 5,000 employees,
and we were serving 300 communities in 46 states flying 19- and
30-seat aircraft.
Unfortunately, in 1995 new regulations were adopted that
significantly impacted our costs negatively. While in 1990
there were over 2,000 19- and 30-seat passenger aircraft in
service, today there is not a single one. An entire industry
was wiped out and service into cities like Bullhead, Sierra
Vista, Show Low, and many more across the country were cutoff
from the national transportation system as a result.
I've been around for quite awhile, as we've discussed, and
I can tell you firsthand and on the front line that the pilot
shortage is the single greatest threat to the industry I have
witnessed since 9/11.
As we discussed, we've already lost all the 19- and 30-seat
aircraft, and I fear this trend will continue and the 50-seat
regional jet will be next. With 57 percent of all commercial
airports served by aircraft with 50 seats or less, this could
be catastrophic. Without immediate action, make no mistake,
this will happen again.
An example of this risk is the recently announced
withdrawal of service by Sky West, arguably the most successful
regional airline in the world. They pulled service from 29
rural cities, citing a pilot shortage.
It is estimated that airline service in small communities
provides over one million jobs, $41 billion in wages and tax
revenue, and nearly $153 billion in total economic value.
While Mesa survived the 1990s only after a trip through
bankruptcy, our industry is facing similar circumstances today.
I am deeply concerned about the future of regional aviation and
more personally the future of 3,500 Mesa employees, thousands
of whom are here in Arizona, many who have worked with me for
decades and have become good friends.
So just how bad is the pilot shortage? Well, last month
alone we lost almost 5 percent of our pilot workforce in 1
month as major airlines began hiring as we exited the pandemic.
Our pilots are exceptionally well qualified and prime
targets for major carriers. Regional airlines simply cannot
keep up with the current level of attrition given the extensive
training we perform for each new pilot and, more importantly,
the shrinking pool of incoming qualified candidates.
According to Federal labor statistics, the industry needs
to hire 14,500 pilots a year until 2030 just to keep up. Last
year there were 4,346 commercial licenses granted last year.
This has to change.
We believe the sharp decline in new licenses and concurrent
pilot shortage we are experiencing has been driven primarily by
legislation that has significantly increased the time and
expense for an individual to become qualified to fly commercial
aircraft, a classic barrier to entry.
While the U.S. is generally considered a leader in aviation
safety, it is interesting to note that no other country in the
world has adopted these regulations, not a single one, and
every day foreign pilots who would be deemed unqualified to fly
in the U.S. are flying wide-body international aircraft into
congested air space over places like New York and Los Angeles.
It just doesn't make sense.
So what can be done? Despite the fact that of the 59
accidents since 1940s involving pilot error, only one pilot had
less than 1,500 hours. I appreciate that a significant
modification to the rule may be remote and we should however
explore other ways to mitigate its negative impact on pilot
supply and consider the quality of training over the quantity
of total hours. This is not dissimilar to the way the military
trains its pilots.
We have to ask ourselves is a pilot more qualified renting
a Cessna 172 and flying circles over the Pacific Ocean for 2
hours or spending 2 hours in the state-of-the-art simulator
shooting missed approaches into LaGuardia? Common sense would
dictate that hours should not count equally.
I strongly recommend the Committee encourage the FAA to use
the authority it already has that Congress gave it under the
2010 Airline Safety Act to create alternative high-quality
structured training pathways over pure 1,500 quantity.
With the advancements in technology, there is little doubt
we are capable of producing safer, better qualified pilots
without spending upwards of 6 years, hundreds of thousands of
dollars, and flying around in circles for 1,500 hours.
We would also recommend allowing qualified foreign pilots
easier entry into the U.S. Many countries around the world are
in fact experiencing a surplus of pilots. This provides an
opportunity to relieve much of the pressure brought on by the
current shortage and would allow carriers to avoid painful
reductions in service, maintain a reasonable fare structure
which was up over 18 percent month over month last month, and
enhance safety by lowering the velocity of attrition. Pilots
should be offered preferential access much like nurses and
indeed fashion models.
Additionally, I recommend raising the maximum pilot age
from 65 to 68, even if temporarily. Certainly no one would
question their experience and it just was brought to my
attention we need to do that quickly because my chief pilot,
Mike Whitman, who I've known for 35 years, is about to turn 65,
as am I. So, anyway, I'd like to see if we could do that
quickly.
A longer-term solution is support of institutions like
United's Aviate Academy. We need strong commitment and more
student aid to help get more pilots into the system. The high
cost of educating new pilots not only limits the number of
potential pilots, but significantly hurts any efforts at
diversity of the profession which has been sadly historically
lacking.
With student loans below the actual cost of flight
education, aspiring pilots are forced to make up tens of
thousands of dollars out of pocket.
Finally, Madam Chair, I strongly encourage you to request
the GAO study of the impact on current regulations have on the
pilot shortage and its bearing on local communities.
As importantly, this study should also look into how these
regulations have exacerbated the lack of pilot diversity and
what steps can be taken to address these problems.
Many of these recommendations can be administered through
the Biden White House and the Department of Transportation and
I respectfully ask you as Chair of the Aviation Subcommittee to
encourage them to do so.
I am extremely grateful for the work you and your
colleagues did on providing our industry what was really life-
saving support of the PSP Program. That support provided was
indispensable in keeping thousands of jobs and preventing a
potential collapse of U.S. aviation.
At this point, I've got to clarify at this point, we're not
asking for any more money, but to ask for common sense policy,
changes to allow our industry to continue to provide both the
highest level of safety and the service that our country has
come to depend on.
I thank you for your time and look forward to talking more
about these solutions throughout the hearing. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Ornstein follows:]
Prepared Statement of Jonathan G. Ornstein, Chairman and Chief
Executive Officer, Mesa Air Group
Chair Sinema and members of the Committee, my name is Jonathan
Ornstein and I am the Chairman and CEO of Mesa Airlines based right
here in Arizona. I've been CEO for 23 years which makes me the longest
serving airline CEO, and probably the dumbest.
Thank you for holding this hearing on such an important issue for
our industry and for my opportunity to provide testimony on the matter.
Mesa Air was founded in 1982 in a small airport in Farmington, New
Mexico by a true visionary in aviation and my mentor, mechanic Larry
Risley.
When I joined the company in 1986 we had 6 aircraft. By 1992, we
had over 200 aircraft, with 5000 employees flying to over 300 small
communities in 46 states using 19-30 seat aircraft. Then there was a
rule change in 1995 that significantly increased our costs. I was
outspoken against it at the time and felt it would jeopardize the
regional airline industry. At the time there were over 2,500 aircraft
in service. Today not a single 19-30 seat regional aircraft provides
commercial air service in the US. An entire industry operating into
smaller, rural cities such as Bull Head City, Sierra Vista, Show Low,
and many more across the country has been entirely wiped out.
While Mesa survived due to the development of the regional jet, the
industry is facing almost identical circumstances today as we did 25
years ago. I am deeply concerned about the communities that we serve
and more personally, I am deeply concerned about the 3,500 employees at
Mesa, many of whom have worked with me for decades.
While Mesa has always looked to the future, and today we are a
leader in decarbonization, but unfortunately, if current trends
continue, we will be challenged to be around to see this new technology
come to fruition. We have already lost all 19-30 seat commercial
passenger aircraft and I fear it will be the 50 seat regional aircraft
next. 57 percent of all airports with commercial service were only
served by aircraft with 50-seat or less. We have to to prevent this
from happening.
Madam Chair, today we find ourselves at a critical juncture for the
survival of regional aviation. The flaws of a rule change to the
training requirement for pilots made years ago were laid bare during
Covid. The resulting pilot shortage now imperils smaller cities and
towns that rely on air travel as a vital business and tourism link.
These towns are facing either a significant reduction in service or in
many cases, the loss of all service entirely. It is estimated that
airline service into small communities across the U.S. provides over 1
million jobs, $41 billion in local wages and tax revenue, and nearly
$153 billion in total economic value.
A clear example of this risk would be the recently announced
withdrawal of service by SkyWest--the county's largest and arguably
most successful regional airline--from 29 rural cities across America.
What is most stunning about this announcement is that all of them
received Federal subsidies through the Essential Air Service (EAS)
program to support that service.
Frankly Madam Chair, I am deeply concerned about what is happening
to regional aviation and in particular, to carriers like Mesa. Just to
give you an idea of the order of magnitude, last month we lost almost 5
percent of our pilot workforce as major airlines and operators of
larger jets hired our pilots. They are doing this to offset a pilot
shortage brought on by COVID related early retirements, a significant
increase in retirements due simply to demographics of the pilot
workforce, and the substantial expansion in low-cost carriers and cargo
operations. Given the significant increase in cost and time required to
become a pilot, there are just not enough pilots to go around.
Regional airlines like Mesa are in an incredibly tough spot. Our
pilots are exceptionally well trained and qualified, and prime targets
for major carriers who are often viewed as career advancement by many
young pilots who aspire to fly ``big equipment''. And given the
economics, pilots flying larger aircraft can earn significantly more
income flying for these major carriers.
Regional airlines simply cannot keep up with the current level of
attrition given the extensive training we perform for each new pilot
and more importantly, the shrinking pool of incoming qualified
candidates.
For most Americans, regional airports are their first and only
option to access the national aviation system. Regional airlines
provide service to 65 percent of the Nation's commercially served
airports. Unless significant action is taken soon, I believe this
critical lifeline is in jeopardy.
According to federal labor statistics, the industry needs to hire
an average of 14,500 new pilots each year until 2030 just to keep up.
Last year, there were only 4,346 ATP's granted compared to 6,664 in
2019 and 9,387 in 2016. In order to maintain existing service levels,
this has to change. If not, the impact will not only be felt on rural
aviation as demand increases and supply decreases, but prices for the
U.S. consumer will undoubtedly increase until a new equilibrium is
reached.
While the U.S. is generally considered a leader in aviation safety,
it is interesting to note that no other country in the world has these
regulations. Not a single one. And every day, foreign pilots who would
be deemed unqualified to fly for a U.S. carrier are flying wide-body
international aircraft into JFK and LAX.
While addressing the 1500 hour rule would be the easiest fix, the
likelihood of returning to pre-1500-hour rule is remote. We should
consider, however, to ways to mitigate its effect, and to consider the
quality of training over the quantity of training hours. We have to ask
ourselves, whether someone becomes more qualified renting a Cessna 172
and flying circles over the Pacific Ocean for two hours, or spending
two hours in a high tech simulator shooting missed approaches into
LaGuardia? Why should those hours count one for one?
Given two years from now will be two years too late, what else can
be done.
Firstly, we would strongly recommend that Congress reach out to the
FAA and encourage them to use the authority that Congress gave them
under the 2010 airline safety act to create higher quality restricted
ATP pathways over pure 1500 hour quantity. Training methods have not
been static. With the advancements in training, there is little doubt
we are capable producing safer, better qualified pilots without
spending upwards to six years, hundreds of thousands of dollars, and
flying around in circles for 1,500 hours.
Another effective and actionable solution would be to allow
qualified foreign pilots easier entry into the U.S. pilot workforce.
Absent the same regulations, many countries around the world are in
fact experiencing a surplus of pilots due to COVID-related reductions
in international demand. This provides an opportunity to relieve much
of the pressure brought on by the current shortage and would allow
carriers to avoid painful reductions in service, maintain a reasonable
fare structure, and enhance safety by lowering the velocity of
attrition.
It seems slightly absurd that fashion models are given preferred
immigration status while qualified pilots--who could provide
significant benefit to the national transportation system--are stuck at
the border participating in a lottery system. Pilots should have
preferential access much like nurses, and indeed fashion models.
Additionally, I recommend raising the maximum pilot age from 65 to
68, even if temporarily. Certainly no one would question their
experience.
A longer-term solution but one that may be critical in the coming
decade is the support of institutions like United's Aviate Academy. We
need strong commitment, and more student aid, to help get more pilots
into the system. The high cost of educating new pilots not only limits
the number of potential pilots, but significantly hurts any efforts at
diversity in the profession which has been, sadly, historically
lacking.
Finally, Madam chair I strongly encourage you to request a GAO
study of the impact that current regulations have on the pilot shortage
and its bearing on local communities. As importantly, this study should
also look into how these regulations have exacerbated the lack of pilot
diversity, and what steps should be taken to address these problems.
Most of recommendations can be done administratively by the Biden
White House and the Department of Transportation, and I respectively
ask you, as Chair of the Aviation Subcommittee, to encourage them to do
so.
Members of the Committee, there is not one simple fix that will
solve the crisis we are faced with today. I am extremely grateful for
the work you and your colleagues did on providing our industry with the
lifesaving support of the PSP program. The financial support provided
was indispensable in keeping hundreds of thousands of jobs across the
country and preventing the potential collapse of U.S. aviation.
However, I return to you now not to ask for more money, but to ask for
common sense policy changes to reshape our industry in a way that
allows us to continue to provide the incredible level of service to
hundreds of communities across the country while enhancing safety.
I thank you for your time and look forward to talking more about
these solutions throughout the hearing.
Senator Sinema. Thank you.
Our fourth witness is Dean Greg Wilson. Dean Wilson is the
Dean of Applied Technology for Pima Community College, located
in my home town of Tucson. He's been with the college for over
21 years and has been the Dean of Applied Technology since
2014.
Dean Wilson, thank you for joining us today and you're
recognized for your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF GREG WILSON, ACADEMIC DEAN FOR APPLIED TECHNOLOGY,
PIMA COMMUNITY COLLEGE
Mr. Wilson. Thank you. Good morning, Senator Sinema and
Members of the Committee.
My name is Greg Wilson. I serve as the Dean of Applied
Technology at Pima in Tucson, and I appreciate the opportunity
to address you this morning.
Pima Community College's Aviation Technology Program
operates a state-of-the-art training facility located on the
grounds of the Tucson International Airport. It provides
students the opportunity to study aircraft maintenance in a
hands-on learning environment, combining lectures, hands-on
work, and independent projects.
The program is rigorous and I'll go into a little more
detail in a moment, but like you, Jonathan, it's very
emotional. We had a graduation ceremony for our 33 students
last night and to see a hangar full of students and families
and just see the pride when their student walked across the
stage and had their name called is what keeps us doing this,
right, for 20 something years.
Our program holds its students to the highest industry
standards. As a result, it has a national reputation for
excellence and places over 95 percent of graduates in high=
demand jobs in aerospace and defense soon after graduation and,
of course, I was sitting next to some students last night that
had their jobs before they finished.
In spite of our success, frankly, we need your help. The
industry predicts that close to 200,000 new aircraft
maintenance technicians will be needed in North America over
the next 15 to 18 years. Close to 30 percent of the current
ranks of aircraft mechanics are at or near retirement age and
closer to home, MC estimates that a 40 percent increase in
available aviation positions for the Southern Arizona Region
alone compared to the national average of 10 percent.
Pima County represents the largest concentration of
aviation occupations in the Southern Arizona Region with 87
percent of the jobs reported.
The FAA reports that nationally the aviation sector
accounts for more than 5 percent of the U.S. Gross Domestic
Product and contributes $1.6 trillion in total economic
activity. We read the same statement, right, and support nearly
11 million jobs.
Moreover, aviation manufacturing continues to be the
Nation's top net export. In Arizona, aviation is a significant
economic catalyst. Over 470,000 jobs are directly or indirectly
related to the sector and it contributes more than $38 billion
to the state's economy.
As such, the aviation sector plays a key role in supporting
and building on Arizona's economic strengths and possesses
strong potential for bringing high-wage/high-demand jobs and
increased business to the state and region.
Supporting this vibrant sector takes a qualified workforce
of highly trained technicians and specialized maintenance
repair and operations facilities that maintain and rehabilitate
commercial and military aircraft fleets.
According to the Aeronautical Repair Station Association's
2017 report, by state, aviation maintenance employs more than
277,000 people and generates over $44 billion in economic
activity nationally. In Arizona, the total aviation maintenance
employment is about 16,000 which is the sixth highest in the
nation, and Arizona's MRO operations have a total economic
activity of four billion which is third highest behind only
California and Washington.
The Tucson Region is host to significant MROs, including
Bombardier and Ascent. These companies employ thousands of
skilled aviation maintenance professionals contributing greatly
to the region's economic well-being.
I am participating this morning to encourage you to
increase funding to support aviation technology programs like
the one we offer at Pima. I mentioned that our program's
national and international reputation for excellence and the
rigor. Our students complete 2,000 hours of training, over 100
exams and nearly 300 hands-on projects.
The program offers an Associate of Applied Science degree
in Aviation Technology and accompanying certificates for direct
employment in the core skill areas of air frame and power
plant, structural repair, and avionics.
The program is designed to replicate the industry to
provide students with a real-world experience throughout the
program. Pima is one of half of the FAA-approved schools
offering an aviation maintenance associate's degrees and we're
one of only a handful of U.S. schools offering the Advanced
Structure Repair and Modification Program as well as commercial
jet transport and aviation training.
Pima Community College is one of only two U.S. educational
institutions that received two aircraft donations from FedEx.
They're both Boeing 727s, making our program one of the few
that provides hands-on training on commercial and regional
jets. We have about 19 total aircraft, four commercial and 15
general.
Additionally, we are building a drone program and we will
offer a non-destructive testing program next year, and I want
to thank you, Senator Sinema. Thanks to your assistance, as
well as Senator Kelly, Representative Gallego, and
Representative Kirkpatrick, Pima was the proud recipient of a
$490,000 Federal Aviation grant. We were one of 15 recipients
of the Aviation Maintenance Technical Workers Development Fund
and that will pay for the most asked for aviation inspection
techniques, visual testing, penetrant testing, magnetic
particle testing, electro-magnetic testing, ultrasonic testing,
and radiographic testing, and we will start offering that
certificate in the fall of 2023.
We appreciate the Committee's leadership in authorizing the
program and urge you to expand to include additional funds that
can help institutions like Pima provide real-time hands-on
training.
And with that, I will stop. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Wilson follows:]
Prepared Statement of Greg Wilson, Academic Dean for Applied
Technology, Pima Community College
Good morning, Chair Sinema and members of the Subcommittee. My name
is Greg Wilson, and I serve as the Dean of Applied Technology at Pima
Community College in Tucson, Arizona. Thank you for the opportunity to
address you this morning.
Pima Community College's Aviation Technology Center operates a
state-of-the art training facility located on the grounds of the Tucson
International Airport. It provides students the opportunity to study
aircraft maintenance in a hands-on learning environment combining
lectures, hands-on work, and independent projects. The program is
rigorous--I'll elaborate more on that in just a moment--and our program
holds its students to the industry's highest standards. As a result, it
has a national reputation for excellence, and places nearly 90 percent
of its graduates in high-demand jobs in aerospace and defense soon
after graduation.
In spite of our success, frankly we need your help. The industry
predicts that close to 200,000 new aircraft maintenance technicians
will be needed in North America over the next 17-18 years. Close to 30
percent of the current ranks of aircraft mechanics are at or near
retirement age. Closer to home, Economic Modeling Specialists, Inc.
(EMSI), estimates a 40 percent increase in available Aviation positions
for the Southern Arizona region alone, compared to the national average
of 10 percent. Pima County represents the largest concentration of
aviation occupations in the Southern Arizona region with 87 percent of
the jobs reported (1,336 of 1,534).
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) reports that, nationally,
the aviation sector accounts for more than 5 percent of the U.S. gross
domestic product, contributes $1.6 trillion in total economic activity
and supports nearly 11 million jobs. Moreover, aviation manufacturing
continues to be the Nation's top net export (FAA, 2016). In Arizona,
aviation is a significant economic catalyst. Over 470,000 jobs are
directly or indirectly related to the sector, and it contributes more
than $38 billion to the state's economy (ACA, 2017). As such, the
aviation sector plays a key role in supporting and building on
Arizona's economic strengths, and possesses strong potential for
bringing high-wage, high-demand jobs and increased business to the
state and region.
Supporting this vibrant sector takes a qualified workforce of
highly trained technicians and specialized MRO (Maintenance, Repair,
and Operations) facilities that maintain and rehabilitate commercial
and military aircraft fleets.
According to the Aeronautical Repair Station Association's (ARSA)
2017 report titled U.S. Employment and Economic Impact by State,
aviation maintenance employs more than 277,000 people and generates
over $44 billion in economic activity nationally. In Arizona, total
aviation maintenance employment is approximately 16,000, the sixth
highest in the nation, and Arizona's MRO operations have a total
economic activity of $4 billion, the third highest in the nation,
behind only California and Washington (ARSA, 2017).
The Tucson region is host to significant MROs, including Bombardier
Aerospace and Ascent Aviation, and the state is host to Boeing,
Northrop Grumman, and others. These companies employ thousands of
skilled aviation maintenance professionals, contributing greatly to the
region's economic wellbeing.
I am participating this morning to encourage you to increase
funding to support Aviation Technology programs like the program we
offer at Pima Community College (PCC). I mentioned our program's
national and international reputation for excellence, and its rigor.
Students complete 2,000 hours of training, over 100 exams, and nearly
300 hands-on projects. The program offers an Associate of Applied
Science degree in Aviation Technology and accompanying certificates for
direct employment in the core skill areas of: (1) Airframe and Power-
plant (2) Structural Repair, and (3) Avionics. The program is designed
to replicate the industry to provide students with a real-world
experience throughout the program. PCC is one of about half of FAA-
approved schools offering an Aviation Maintenance associate's degree.
PCC is one of only a handful of U.S. schools offering the highly
sought-after Advanced Structural Repair and Modification, and
commercial jet transport and Avionics training. Pima Community College
is one of only two U.S. educational institutions that received two
aircraft donations from FedEx. Both are Boeing 727s, making PCC's
program one of the few U.S. programs providing hands-on training on
commercial and regional jets. Additionally, we are building a drone
certification program and we will offer a nondestructive testing (NDT)
program next year. Additionally, we work closely with our high school
partners and deliver introductory courses for juniors and seniors.
To help meet the demand referenced above, we are expanding the
physical footprint and capacity of our Aviation Technology Center with
a scheduled completion this summer. Our building is expanding to two
hangars capable of servicing large commercial jets, and our facility
will increase from 35K sq. ft. to 80K sq. ft. Our program capacity will
increase from 125 students to 250 students, and we will increase our
yearly graduates from 75 to 175. These graduates will be placed into
Aviation jobs with median annual earnings ranging from $57,600 to
$65,800. These increases and improvements are significant, and the one-
time state appropriation of $15M instigated by Governor Ducey has made
a great impact on our operations. We have been able to cut into our 1-
1.5-year waitlist. The economic benefit for the state is also
significant. The total of new jobs that will be supported is 455 with
new direct payroll of $15.6M. The total new payroll supported is over
$65M and new property tax revenues are expected to $2.4M. New sales tax
revenue is estimated at $445K. The total economic impact is estimated
to be over $255.5M over five years. That is a 13:1 return on
investment!
But we need to do more. We need your support to strengthen efforts
by educators, workforce development programs, and economic development
organizations to align education and workforce training programs with
employer needs. We need sustainable state operations funding for
community college career and technical education programs that support
student success and meet the diverse needs of students, industry, and
our communities.
As of today, Pima Community College and Maricopa Community College
still do not receive state FTSE-based operations funding. It is
essential that outstanding programs like Pima's are supported
financially to adapt to changing practices and technologies to ensure
that we are preparing our students to enter the industry with the
expected skills and abilities.
Thank you for your support. I look forward to addressing your
questions.
Senator Sinema. Thank you.
Our fifth witness is First Officer Paul Ryder, who serves
as Secretary for the United Airlines Master Executive Council
of the Air Line Pilots Association. Mr. Ryder has been a pilot
for 17 years and currently flies the Boeing 757 and 767.
Mr. Ryder, thank you for joining us today. You are
recognized for your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF PAUL RYDER, FIRST OFFICER UAI-MEC SECRETARY, AIR
LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION
Mr. Ryder. Thank you, Chair Sinema, for holding the hearing
today.
I'm a 17-year commercial airline pilot who has flown both
regional and mainline carriers. I'm currently a first officer
on the Boeing 757 and 767 for United Airlines. I feel very
fortunate to work in a career that fulfills my passion for
aviation.
Thanks to you and other lawmakers, because of Payroll
Support Program and its strong worker protections, the United
States has enough pilots today to meet demand, in fact, more
than 1.5 pilots for every job.
But today's supply of pilots doesn't mean that we don't
need to do all we can to build a strong pilot workforce for the
future.
As a member of the Air Line Pilots Association
International, I can tell you that no other organization is
more committed to inspiring and supporting the next generation
of aviators.
Each year ALPA connects with thousands of students of all
ages, conducts visits to elementary, middle, high schools, as
well as colleges and universities, air shows, and community
events. Our union's goal is to inspire young people from all
backgrounds to see themselves as airline pilots.
ALPA is also working to create an accessible inclusive
airline pilot workforce for all who are interested and for
those that for too long have been locked out. Women and people
of color in particular face significant barriers to becoming
aviators and that must change.
ALPA has a plan to break down those barriers, create
opportunities, build a strong pipeline of qualified aviators,
while protecting the high level of safety in the U.S. air
transportation system. Some argue that we must lower standards
to open doors of opportunity. We flatly reject that.
To help aspiring aviators, ALPA is calling on our
government to align Federal funding for pilot academic
education and training with that of other highly skilled
professions. We believe the government must do more to provide
Federal financial assistance for flight training for students
pursuing two-and 4-year degrees. It should provide an
opportunity for pilots to work for airlines that serve the
public need in exchange for student loan forgiveness.
The government should increase subsidized loans for flight
training and ensure that unsubsidized loans do not accrue
interest while students are in school.
To assist academic institutions, the government can provide
grants to minority-serving institutions to create or expand
aviation flight training programs and help other colleges and
universities that serve underrepresented communities create
such programs.
On an industry level, airlines can do more to make it
easier and more affordable to become an airline pilot. I'm
proud of the partnership between ALPA pilots at United and
United Airlines to create the Aviate Academy. It helps aspiring
aviators with the cost of obtaining certification and will
provide more enhanced training under the existing requirements.
Unlike during past years, pilots who are starting their
career today have many airlines to choose from. Airlines and
labor can do more to address the economic and work-life issues
that exist at some carriers and help them increase their
ability to attract new aviators.
We must also insist on an inclusive workforce for pilots.
For example, ALPA's leading the fight to promote inclusive
gender-neutral language in its collective bargaining
agreements. We are advancing inclusive language throughout the
industry, including the FAA's Advanced Aviation Advisory
Committee, and in our advocacy to change the FAA's use of the
term ``Notice to Airmen'' to Notice to Air Missions.
As the United States works to expand its pilot workforce,
it must protect our industry's extraordinary safety record. The
success of the first officer qualification requirements and
pilot training that were developed by the regulator, airlines,
and labor have helped make U.S. air transportation the safest
in the world.
Some suggest you must choose between safety and
opportunity. That is a false choice. Thanks to the Federal
relief Congress provided to airlines, airline pilots are more
than ready to meet today's needs. However, we must act to make
certain that the pilot workforce of the 21st Century is ready
for take-off.
Thank you for this opportunity, Senator, and that concludes
my remarks.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Ryder follows:]
Prepared Statement of Paul Ryder, First Officer UAI-MEC Secretary,
Air Line Pilots Association
Thank you, Chair Sinema, for holding this hearing today.
I am a 17-year commercial airline pilot who has flown at both
regional and mainline carriers. I am currently a first officer on the
Boeing 757 and 767 for United Airlines. I feel very fortunate to work
in a career that fulfills my passion for flying.
Thanks to you and other lawmakers, because of the Payroll Support
Program and its strong worker protections, the United States has enough
pilots today to meet demand--in fact, more than 1.5 pilots for every
job.
But today's supply of pilots doesn't mean that we don't need to do
all we can to build a strong pilot workforce for the future. As a
member of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l, I can tell you that
no organization is more committed to inspiring and supporting the next
generation of aviators.
Each year, ALPA connects with thousands of students of all ages. We
conduct visits to elementary, middle, and high schools, as well as
colleges and universities, air shows, and community events. Our union's
goal is to inspire young people from all backgrounds to see themselves
as airline pilots.
ALPA is also working to create an accessible, inclusive airline
pilot workforce for all who are interested and for those who have been
locked out for too long. Women and people of color in particular face
significant barriers to becoming aviators--and that must change.
ALPA has a plan to break down those barriers, create opportunity,
and build a strong pipeline of qualified aviators, while protecting the
high level of safety in the U.S. air transportation system. Some argue
that we must lower standards to open the doors of opportunity--we
flatly reject that.
To help aspiring aviators, ALPA is calling on our government to
align Federal funding for pilot academic education and training with
that of other highly skilled professions. We believe:
The government must do more to provide Federal financial
assistance for flight training for students pursuing two-and
four-year degrees.
It should provide an opportunity for pilots to work for
airlines that serve the public need in exchange for student
loan forgiveness.
The government should also increase subsidized loans for
flight training and ensure that unsubsidized loans do not
accrue interest while students are in school.
To assist academic institutions, the government can provide grants
to minority-serving institutions to create or expand aviation and
flight-degree programs and help other colleges and universities that
serve underrepresented communities create such programs.
On an industry level, airlines can do more to make it easier--and
more affordable--to become an airline pilot. I'm proud of the
partnership between ALPA pilots at United and United Airlines to create
the Aviate Academy. It helps aspiring aviators with the cost of
obtaining certification and will provide more enhanced training under
the existing requirements.
Unlike during years past, pilots who are starting their career
today have many airlines to choose from. Airlines and labor can do more
to address the economic and work-life issues that exist at some
carriers and help them increase their ability to attract new aviators.
We must also insist on an inclusive workplace for pilots. For
example, ALPA is leading the fight to promote inclusive, gender-neutral
language in its collectively bargained agreements. We are also
advancing inclusive language throughout the industry, including at the
FAA's Advanced Aviation Advisory Committee and in our advocacy to
change the FAA's use of notice to airmen to notice to air missions.
As the United States works to expand its pilot workforce, it must
protect our industry's extraordinary safety record. The success of
first officer qualification requirements and pilot training that were
developed by the regulator, airlines, and labor have helped make U.S.
air transportation the safest in the world. Some suggest we must choose
between safety and opportunity. That is a false choice.
Thanks to the Federal relief that Congress provided to U.S.
airlines, airline pilots are more than ready to meet today's needs.
However, we must act to make certain that the pilot workforce of the
21st century is ready for takeoff.
Senator Sinema. Thank you all for your opening statements
and your written statements will all be entered into the
record.
Now we'll move on and have some time for questions. So my
first question is for Ms. Donati. Thank you again for your work
at the Aviate Academy and being so generous with your space to
allow us to have our field hearing here today. This is the
perfect location for discussion about the aviation workforce.
In your testimony, you mentioned that you have many
thousands of applicants for the Aviate Academy and that two-
thirds of the applicants are women and people of color.
As you and other witnesses have pointed out in your written
testimony, aviation is a field that has not been successful at
providing a career path for all people from all communities
across the country, and as we look to have a strong pipeline of
aviation workers in the future, we need to improve on that.
Could you provide some more background on your recruiting
efforts and the partnerships you've established to reach out to
communities that have been traditionally underrepresented in
the aviation world?
Ms. Donati. Thank you.
United Airlines has done a wonderful job of partnering with
nonprofit organizations, as Sisters of the Sky, Women in
Aviation, International Organization of Black Aerospace
Professionals, Latino Pilots Association, Professional Asian
Pilots Association, and National Gay Pilots Association, and we
understand that we cannot diversify aviation by ourselves.
So it's really about partnerships and outreach and
awareness. As we just started off, you know, we're working with
those nonprofit organizations, but it's really getting into our
communities. It's working with our educators and it's going,
you know, into elementary schools because at fifth grade,
that's when students most identify with their career.
So it's really expanding our outreach and awareness but not
just here in Arizona, it's across the country into communities
that never thought aviation was possible for them.
Senator Sinema. Thank you. Some of our other witnesses also
addressed this issue of diversity in their testimony. I'd like
to get their perspectives on ways to recruit and retain
students that can bring more racial, ethnic, and gender
diversity to the field.
So I'm going to Dean Wilson first and then Dr. Karlsson,
and then any other witnesses who'd like to join in.
Mr. Wilson. Senator Sinema, one of the other things we do,
we do have a very strong high school pipeline for our program.
This year we have about 43 students that represent 27 to 30
different high schools in the Southern Arizona Region. It's
about eight different districts.
We also pull students from public, private high schools,
charter, and then those that are also home schooled.
One of the very interesting things that--one of the things
we do at Pima is don't always think about accredit, you know,
regular semester-type. We're also building fast tracks and so
we work with industry to identify T skills, more like
professional skills, right, because we're definitely going to
cover the technical skill set. It's what is the employer
looking for and then instead of going through your regular
semester-based process, you know, you can build an eight-to-12-
week fast track that will make a student who goes through that
program credible on the employer's floor, and then, of course,
they'll take them the rest of the way.
Dr. Karlsson. Yes, thank you, Senator Sinema.
So Embry-Riddle has several programs to recruit and reach
out to K-12 education, working with our local community, but I
think we can do more as a profession.
If you look at what NSF has done for STEM education, there
are a lot of funding you can get for encouraging students to
explore engineering and science. We tend not to have the same
thing for aviation, and what I would like to see is similar
research projects and engagement projects for engaging students
in aviation.
As I mentioned, even though pilots are kind of the most--I
don't want to even say most important, but they are the most
well-known in aviation, but you have everything else,
technicians, flight attendants, airport managers. You have a
lot of people, as I said. We have almost 11 million people in
the country working in aviation.
So to expose children, as we heard fifth grade is a good
time to approach students, if we can approach that group of
students to present the whole spectrum of jobs, I think that
could help the industry significantly in the future.
Mr. Ryder. Senator, if I may add a few remarks to that?
Thank you for the opportunity, Senator.
One of the things I'd like to highlight is at the end of
the day removing barriers is the most effective means of
increasing diversity within our profession, but as we've heard
from others testify here, this goes beyond pilots and so our
colleagues in the aviation maintenance field are also important
as well as other above and below the wing professionals in the
aviation community.
But to achieve diversity, we must make sure that we have
representation and that we have role models for students at a
young age, as Ms. Donati pointed out. That's why the Air Line
Pilots Association has been in classrooms for the last several
decades ensuring we're providing a diverse representative group
to young students in elementary and high schools to encourage
them to see themselves on the flight deck and there's no one
more interested in ensuring we have a robust pilot supply
pipeline feeding us the most competent and qualified pilots for
the future and that representation is an important element of
ensuring that we have the proper diversity that reflects the
communities that we fly into.
Mr. Ornstein. Just real quickly, I think that the idea of
taking down barriers obviously is extremely important, and if
you look at the statistics, we're not doing a good job.
Last year, of all the ATPs issued, only 1.6 percent were
issued to people--African Americans. That's less than one-fifth
their representation in the population.
So clearly we need to do a better job but what I'd like to
do as Mesa and, you know, it's an honor, Senator, having you
here with us, is make this promise is that for the
organizations that are here so that those folks coming in who
may be disadvantaged will feel confident that they're making
the right choice, I literally will stand here today and tell
you that we will hire everyone that you graduate in the next 3
years and we will hire everyone that you graduate in the next 3
years and the same thing goes here.
I am not joking about that. That's how bad things are. We
will offer jobs right now to everyone here who graduates with a
maintenance degree, which is a huge shortage, as well as
pilots, and we'll do that right now.
Senator Sinema. Thank you. You know, based on the testimony
from our witnesses, there appears to be a range of opinions
about the current state of pilot supply and how the pandemic
has impacted the labor market.
Besides the current state of the labor market, I'd also
like to take a broader perspective to understand our future
needs. So looking forward, the Bureau of Labor Statistics
predicts that overall employment of airline and commercial
pilots is projected to grow 13 percent between 2020 and 2030
which is faster than the average for all other occupations.
These same labor statistics estimate about 14,500 openings
for airline and commercial pilots are projected each year on
average over the decade. So many of those openings are expected
to result from the need to replace workers who transfer to
different occupations or who retire.
So I'd like to start first with Mr. Ryder and then go to
Mr. Ornstein and any others wishing to weigh in.
So, Mr. Ryder, what are your perspectives about the Labor
Department's long-term estimates about demand for pilots over
the next decade, and how can we best prepare to meet them?
Mr. Ryder. Thank you, Senator Sinema.
So I think one of the important distinctions here and I
want to be clear that the Air Line Pilots Association is
interested in breaking down barriers and there's no one more
interested in ensuring we have a robust supply of pilots for
this industry, but there are some details that are important
here.
Airline transport pilots and commercial pilots are two
separate certifications and so while the ATP certifications may
not reach the 14,000 mark, that's not the certification that
the BLS is quoting. Those are both ATP and commercial
certificates.
In the last--well, since 2013, we've produced over 55,000
new ATPs and our ATPs meeting not only all hiring or all
retirements over that period of time but well in excess,
allowing for those pilots to continue to serve in other areas
within the aviation community, and as airlines are hiring
pilots, they come out of those segments and come and join the
airlines.
What we have to do is we have to ensure that whatever
solutions we bring forward to the table are met with the same
or higher level of safety that we enjoy today.
Earlier, we heard some testimony about--we could boil this
down to facts, but there's an emotional plea here. As an
airline pilot, I can tell you that on the flight deck we don't
do anything but work with the facts and the situation at hand,
and what we have to do is ensure that whatever solutions are
brought forward for the traveling public, our taxpayers, it's
the safest mode of transportation today and it must continue to
be the safest mode of transportation going well into the future
covering the period that the BLS refers to.
Mr. Ornstein. Thank you. I think we all agree that safety
is our highest priority and the U.S. industry is just amazing,
the work that's been done by all the professionals in the
industry, including what the FAA has done. It's just a stunning
accomplishment when you think now that I think close to 15
billion people have traveled without a major incident and you
compare that to any other form of transportation where tens of
thousands of people are killed every year in their automobile.
So I think we've been pretty successful in that regard.
I think going forward, though, to meet this demand, which
is going to be explosive, we have to realize that training is
not static and we need to use technology, such as full motion
simulators, such as highly advanced flight training devices,
and create alternative pathways that ensure more and more and
safer pilots.
Since the 1,500 hour rule was in place, the fact of the
matter is our training failure rate is actually up twentyfold
from our former pathways where we went through two- and four-
year colleges.
So I don't think we produced better pilots under the
current. I think we need to use the technology that we have
available today to create alternative pathways so that we
create better pilots and create them when we need them which is
immediately.
So I think we both probably agree we want to have better
pilots. It's just a question of how do we get there from here.
Senator Sinema. Thank you. You know, in addition to pilots,
the aviation workforce needs skilled mechanics who keep planes
safe and prepared to fly.
So when Congress reauthorized the FAA back in 2018, we
identified the maintenance workforce issue as a key area of
focus and we created a workforce development grant specifically
for maintenance workers.
Unfortunately, it took years for the FAA to establish the
program even after Members of Congress, including me,
prioritized the program, appropriated funding for it, and urged
the FAA to get the money flowing.
But I am grateful that the first batch of grants went out
earlier this year and that Pima Community College was one of
the first-ever recipients of this award for maintenance
workforce development.
Applications are now open for the next round of FAA
workforce development grants. So I'd encourage all eligible
institutions, especially those in Arizona, to get their
applications in.
Dean Wilson, can you provide a little more detail for us
about how Pima Community College will utilize your FAA grant,
and can you expand upon your thoughts on developing the
maintenance workforce of the future?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, we are actually in the process, Senator
Sinema. Our facility opened in 2001. It's about 35,000 square
feet, and we have almost completed construction. We're
basically doubling the footprint of the Aviation Technology
Center in Tucson. So we're going from about 35,000 square feet
to 80,000 square feet.
We are also increasing the capacity of the program. So we
will go from serving 125 students up to 250 students a year and
our yearly graduates will increase from about 75 to 175. So I
know that's a little bit more than double.
The one thing I didn't mention was that when I spoke about
Fast Tracks earlier, RANP Mechanics Program usually takes 18 to
19 months, but for those that are mustering outside of the
military, instead of taking that long, you can actually go
through our Part 65 and you can complete that in 4 weeks. So
we'll be able to serve a lot more students through the new
center.
The interesting thing with the grant specifically, we are
going to introduce the non-destructive testing. So, as
Jonathan's mentioned, right, we're utilizing a bunch of new
technology when we offer the NDT in the fall of next year.
Just to repeat because I think I kind of stumbled over some
of the techniques that we will be using and again this is the
most asked-for aviation inspection testing, visual testing,
penetrant testing, magnetic particle testing, electromagnetic
testing, ultrasonic testing, and radiographic, and again so
high school students are going to be able to do that. Those
coming out of the military will be able to do it. We are
advertising very strongly through the community, as well.
Pima is a Hispanic-serving institution. So we talk about
barriers. Our program is about 50 percent white students, 45
percent Hispanic, and then less than five for black, Asian, and
Native American students. So we have work to do.
Senator Sinema. Thank you.
I'd like to follow up and get a perspective on the
maintenance workforce issue from both Dr. Karlsson and Mr.
Ornstein, as well, and to understand how academic institutions
and employers view this issue.
So, Dr. Karlsson, we'd like to hear your thoughts.
Dr. Karlsson. Yes, thank you for that.
At the Arizona Campus for Embry-Riddle, we do not have a
maintenance program currently, but at the Daytona Beach Campus,
we do. One part of that is that we work with the military
personnel that are coming out from the military, transitioning
to civil life and getting them trained to become technicians.
They have a strong background, but they need just to get the
training for working on commercial airplanes and that just
takes--this is dangerous for me because I don't know exactly
the data there, but it takes just a few months and they'll be
out in the workforce. So that's one way of doing that.
We would be very interested in starting a similar program
here in Arizona, as well. So thank you.
Mr. Ornstein. Well, it's a great question for us because,
as I mentioned, the founder of our company is Larry Risley who
was a mechanic who graduated from a school very much like
yours, Abilene, Texas, and is my mentor. He literally was
always telling me how important it was and maintenance is
really the key driver of the airline's reliability.
The problem that we face now is not unlike pilots, is, one,
we have a very short supply which makes it very comfortable for
me to offer literally everyone a job and the problem we have,
two, is that our major airline partners are facing the same
problems and are hiring our people. The attrition is so high.
I think out of a total of 400 mechanics or 450 mechanics,
we've lost 90 in 3 months, most of which going to all major
airlines or to military contractors.
I mean, our ability to pay, we're flying small aircraft, we
just don't have the same revenue generation. So it's becoming
very problematic.
That being said, we find that in a small company, people
like the camaraderie and there are some benefits and we're able
to retain people, but we have to, you know, make the extra step
to make that happen, but, clearly, I think we should not for a
second give this the highest priority alongside of the pilots,
given the shortages that we see and the impact that it's had on
us.
Senator Sinema. Thank you.
Another challenge that faces individuals considering
careers in aviation is the high cost of aviation training. Some
of my colleagues in the Senate have considered ways to lessen
the financial burden of this type of training and to expand
financial support.
As previously mentioned, the Aviate Academy is exploring
options to lessen the financial burden on applicants through
scholarships and other proposals, and other major carriers,
including American Airlines, which is one of the largest
carriers in Arizona, are also working to lessen the cost of
pilot training.
So, Ms. Donati, I'm going to ask you first, I'd be
interested to hear from the whole panel about this issue as a
couple of you have mentioned this, what ways is Aviate helping
to financially support aviation training, particularly for
those who find financial expenditures especially burdensome,
and what else can Congress do to help?
We'll just kind of go clockwise through to get your
thoughts on that question. Thanks.
Ms. Donati. Thank you, Senator Sinema.
United Airlines has partnered with JPMorgan to, you know,
raise money to provide scholarships through our nonprofit
organizations. In addition to that, you know, we're looking for
a variety of lenders that can support our students.
You know, we have provided the highest quality of training
by implementing upset recovery and prevention training which is
not a requirement by the FAA, but we want to provide that
quality of training without increasing that cost.
So it's really, you know, partnerships in the industry.
It's finding the right lenders, finding the right
opportunities, also being accredited by ACCSC allows us to open
up Title 4 funding in the future for our students.
Dr. Karlsson. Yes, funding is a major barrier for
especially the more underrepresented groups.
What Embry-Riddle has done is to rely a lot on donations.
It informs the scholarships to support students. Recently, the
Boeing Company initiated an endowed fund that provides
scholarships for a diverse group of students, and we are
working with several corporations to establish such funds.
A third option that I heard, and I forget who mentioned
that, but the Loan Forgiveness Programs would help long term
for the students, but it's really this initial barrier that
needs to be addressed. So for any type of subsidized loan and
scholarships for students would really help.
Mr. Ornstein. It's my understanding, speaking to our
recruiting people, that the biggest problem folks have, in
particular on the pilot side, is, you know, if you go to a 4-
year college, it could be upwards to $200,000 and then you
throw the flight training on top of that, which now is, you
know, eight times more, it's over $100,000. So you're looking
at a price tag between a quarter of a million to $300,000. That
really puts it out of the reach of so many people.
I think the big gap that I understand is that you cannot
use student loans to finance flight training and as a result of
that, you may get your college program that could be paid for
with a student loan, but you can't get the flight training
which has become now the very expensive piece of that training,
and I think that, you know, Mesa has tried to be helpful but,
you know, we have a cadet program. We upfront $10-20,000, I'm
not sure of the number now, to folks who then come to work at
Mesa, but our capability--I mean, you know, we're not JPMorgan
and so it's limited.
As much as I'd like to, we need the people, but, you know,
there's only so much we can do, but I think the idea that gap
in the fact that you can't use it for flight training, I think
becomes a real obstacle for people.
Mr. Wilson. Senator Sinema, you mentioned the FAA grant.
Pima is very active in terms of looking for sources and we were
recently named one of the Metallica Scholar Institutions. So
Metallica, the band, if you haven't heard, they offer a lot for
technical programs and most of the scholarships went to our
aviation students.
The other thing we do is we work with a nonprofit in town
known as Job Path, and, you know, not to get emotional but a
lot of our aviation students are going through a lot, right.
It's different than the 70 percent of Pima students who are
part-time.
For our Aviation Program, you're going through 8 hours a
day, you know, 5 days a week, and real life gets in the way
sometimes. So when we partner with Job Path, they're on average
giving students $2,000 to pay rent, to get food, and for
transportation.
So I think having more opportunities like that is what--you
know, and I hear it from students all the time. If it wasn't
for Job Path, I would not be able to focus on my studies. We
need more partnerships like that.
Mr. Ryder. Thank you, Senator.
So I think it's safe to say that airline pilots are bullish
on inspiring and mentoring pilots, aspiring pilots to join our
profession.
One of the things I'd like to clear up on, and the facts on
this really do matter, is that we've heard several times the
cost of training to become a pilot is not cheap and that's very
true.
I'm certainly aware of that, as I think everybody in the
hearing is, but what we can't do is allow the interests of
shortcutting training or the cost of training to impact safety
regulations which, after 2010, have resulted in the single
greatest decrease in passenger fatalities at 99.8 percent
decrease. So there must be other realistic alternatives.
While there is a 1,500 hour requirement for the ATP, the
rule actually created three additional pathways that allow for
less hours, depending on the quality of that experience. As Mr.
Orstein pointed out, it's not just about hours. It's about the
quality of those hours. Whether you're attending the Aviate
Academy and getting quality education here or getting it at
two-or 4-year program, the quality of those hours do matter.
But one thing did not change as a result of the first
officer qualification and that is the cost of training. That's
an important distinction.
A commercial pilot will spend about $100,000 on the flight
training portion of their development as an aviation
professional. That's pre-FOQ. After the FOQ, it remained the
same amount.
The rule had no impact on the cost of training for an
aviation professional who's aspiring to be an airline pilot,
but what did change was the result for the traveling public in
the safety that they can expect being on the airplane.
So how do we address diversity? Well, I think some
testifying here talked about the diverse organizations that
they partner with and ALPA partners with those, as well. Those
are important role models and representatives of the pilot
profession that inspire, motivate, and keep motivated young
aviation future professionals that need that type of
representation, that need that sort of guidance.
The other thing that we are proponents of is finding ways
to funnel additional student funding to cover flight training
which is not currently covered in Federal-backed loans or
grants or tuition reimbursement or in the case of the public
need, ensuring that there is some sort of a tuition forgiveness
program so that when they're serving the public good, they're
also experiencing reduction in their debt load. Those are ways
that we can make meaningful change.
We've heard several times here today about the, quite
frankly, disappointing diversity in the piloting profession and
it is not respective of our communities that we fly into and
our population here.
But if we just improve in the diversity of our incoming
classes that is the single greatest increase in volume of
pilots that will meet the high standards of the profession,
that will have the skills, the technical training, the proper
professional development necessary to command an aircraft at a
regional carrier, at a cargo carrier, or large international
carrier, and all of that can be done without changing any of
the important safety regulations that were the result of a
bipartisan effort in 2010.
Senator Sinema. Well, thank you.
You know, many of you have mentioned kind of the work to
draw in students into the career at earlier ages. So I'm going
to start with Dean Wilson, but this is a question for the whole
panel.
If we want to draw students into the careers in aviation,
as you all have mentioned, we need to engage with them at the
elementary and middle school and high school levels.
So my first question is, what techniques can be used to
build that interest in aviation and STEM education before they
reach the collegiate level, and, in particular, if you have
ideas around specific ways or techniques to get kids interested
before they exit high school, we'd like to hear about those to
figure out how we could best support them?
Mr. Wilson. Yes. The one thing that I've seen to be the
most effective when we have younger students come in is to--I
give tons of tours of our facilities and they're excellent. If
you haven't been down to Tucson, I'd really encourage you to
come check them out.
But we just don't walk them through, we give them hands-on
activities. So they will spend 30 minutes, you know, either
changing a tire or using a laser alignment, working with a
robot and anything in automation, and that's what really opens
their mind to, oh, I had no idea this was what AIT meant or
this is what I could do in aviation.
The other thing is it's the team, right. When you see
representation, so when our lab specialists are females
operating the robots or the virtual reality, that helps those
students understand I can do that, too. She's done it, I can do
it, or if it's a student of color, he's done it, I can do it. I
think that's really the best thing and you make it fun
obviously.
The other thing is you do like because we understand that
parents have a lot of say when it comes to the younger students
and so we partner with the University of Arizona, for example,
on what they call Design Day for their engineering students and
to a person you find that the students that have had hands-on
experience make better engineers and so we just encourage that
message, as well, so the student who is coming through gets
exposed. They like it, then you've got to convince the parents,
let me go through this 2-year school where I can get some
hands-on experience and then I can become a better engineer if
the 4-year is their option, but it works the same for aviation.
Ms. Donati. So the Department of Transportation actually
requires career cluster training in K through 12 and
transportation logistics is a part of the curriculum and
aviation is a very, very small percentage of that required
curriculum.
Unfortunately, our teachers and our guidance counselors are
required to teach that information but they don't have the
tools to teach it in a way that makes sense for pathways after
graduation.
You know, it's kind of this fact that in order to be a
pilot you can't wear glasses and you have to have a 4.0 and
that's not true.
So what can we do to----
Senator Sinema. I'd only qualify for half of that.
Ms. Donati. So what can we do to partner with the
Department of Transportation and Department of Workforce
Development to make sure that we are training the trainer, as
Dr. Karlsson mentioned earlier, and as Mr. Ryder mentioned,
too, the representation. We need to have, you know, industry
out there representing the career and representing the
communities that they serve, but it's really working with our
Department of Education and it's those partnerships and right
now with the work that, you know, I did on the Women in
Aviation Advisory Board, that's where the biggest gap is, is
that we're not partnering. The FAA is doing this alone.
We're not truly partnering with all entities in order to
get in front of those students.
Dr. Karlsson. So I agree with what have been said. We do
also have like tours where students get the hands-on experience
and one thing that I think as educators we could do better on
and would be interested in getting funding for is a program
where we could bring teachers and guidance counselors on to
campus, for example, during the summer. The K-12 teachers
typically have significant gap. Not all school districts but
they do have a gap in the summer where they are basically not
employed but if we have grants to support them, come to campus
and learn what it is like to be a pilot, aerospace engineer,
maintenance technician, and then they can take that back to the
classroom to teach work skills to the students.
If they are emerged in what actually happen on campus that
could stimulate the K-12 teachers and students.
Senator Sinema. Any other thoughts?
Mr. Ryder. Thank you, Senator.
As I mentioned in our testimony that we do reach out to
elementary and high school students and that's a very important
demographic and, in addition to the representation, we're
hearing a flavor of this which is the collaboration amongst the
industry representatives, the academia, the regulators, and our
Federal Government to ensure that we're reaching the right
audience to carry the message.
We cannot place a professional from each one of these walks
of life in every classroom in every city in every state of the
nation, but what we can do is we can collaborate and empower
the influencers that have critical time with students of a
young age and ensure that they see that representation, but
it's brought with a message that builds a pathway that allows
them to explore their interests.
One of the important parts of inspiring a young child in
their exploration of a potential career is the importance of
self-selection, allowing them to identify what drives their
passion, and certainly as a pilot I'm a bit biased and I would
love to see them choose to be an airline pilot at some point,
but I recognize the importance of our colleagues in aviation
maintenance, engineering, flight operations, and all of those
are great careers in the aviation industry, and what we have to
do is we have to make sure we're bringing things together.
One off the elements that ALPA has undertaken is not only
working with many of these groups that represent diversity but
also reaching out to stakeholders, like the American School
Counselors Association, School Superintendents Association, and
bringing together other industry stakeholders to come up with a
collaborative workforce development campaign that will allow us
to reach youth classroom instructors, be it school counselors
or teachers, and parents.
Parents have to feel comfortable that there's a viable path
for their student. The educator has to feel comfortable and
confident that they can deliver that pathway, explain the
career field and inspire that young student, and the student
has to see themselves as a potential candidate there with a
real opportunity to meet their dream.
We're very committed to that and we would invite industry
stakeholders that are interested in partnering to join us in
that effort, but those are the types of activities that allow
us to use the current structure, the current pathways,
particularly for pilots, to meet the demand that we see today
with our strong production of pilots, the exceptional students
that are joining Aviate Academy and other two-and 4-year
institutions around the country, and it doesn't only require
college.
As we've heard in testimony, there are other pathways that
exist today that you don't have to go through that and those
are all presented to students and we certainly encourage an
exploration and collaboration and making sure we're bringing
safe and effective means of growing the aviation industry
workforce.
Mr. Ornstein. I'll say just quickly, I mean, I thought it
was such a great question, I was trying to remember what got me
so inspired and I'm not sure. I think Kitty Hawk and Wright
Brothers were still a ways off when I was in fifth grade.
The fact is I think giving people the rich history of
aviation, particularly in the minority community, I mean, I
would bet that at Aviate every person knows who Amelia Earhart
is. They know who the Tuskegee Airmen are. I bet if we go
across the street to a public high school, 10 percent of the
kids would know who they are, and I think having that history,
and I remember, you know, my 13th birthday, the first thing I
did was I took my first flight lesson, you know, that day, and,
you know, you've got to inspire people to feel that way about
aviation because it is such a wonderful profession.
You know, we joke around with the pilots. It's like we have
jobs that we pay to go to, you know. I mean, we love doing what
we do so much that it's just something that I think would be
very inspiring, and I think the second piece is, you know, the
industry has had a bad rap. I mean, you know, particularly with
the pilot group and with mechanics. Companies have gone through
bankruptcy. They've had to furlough people. They've gone
backward in their careers.
I mean, those times, fortunately, I mean, things have
gotten much better and the career outlook now is fantastic for
people and I think we need to get that message out, too, that
there is security in the career at this point. There's
opportunity, and, you know, there's a really good living and,
you know, I think that is important to get that message out to
people, as well.
Senator Sinema. Well, thanks.
You know, another overlooked aspect of the aerospace
workforce is the STEM engineering and research and development
work that needs to be done. So Congress, as you probably know,
is currently working on a piece of legislation, the COMPETES
Act, that will help boost scientific research and domestic
manufacturing capabilities.
Our bill includes a number of Arizona priorities, such as
investing in increased semiconductor manufacturing right here
in Arizona.
The key promise of the bill is that we need to continually
advance the ball on technologies and that's especially true for
aerospace workers where new technologies, such as advanced
composites, could lighten the weight of many planes and help us
increase fuel efficiency.
So I want to start with Dr. Karlsson, who's an experienced
researcher on advanced materials. How could the development of
advanced composites affect the aviation industry over the next
decade?
Dr. Karlsson. Well, thank you for that question.
So advanced composites and advanced material in general,
advanced materials is really an enabler for technology and a
lot of things that we dreamed of being able to do, we couldn't
do but then with new materials you can do that.
So I don't want to get into my passionate material science
lecture here, but any type of materials-focused research and
technology research on applying those materials will help the
industry.
For example, as you already mentioned, Senator, is the
light-weight composite structures, also the durability. You can
also put in, for example, sensors in the material that will
then alert the technicians that, hey, this part needs to be
maintained.
The possibilities are just limited by our imagination by
having these new materials. Also, having the semiconductor
production here in Arizona will really help us to innovate
quicker because if you have the manufacturing plant, we can see
how we can optimize that plant, for example, and then the
engineers are here and you can get that closed slope on
optimizing things.
Also, the last part of the benefit of having the
manufacturing locally is that the technicians working in that
plant, they're also smart people that will see things and they
come up with ideas. If they have a direct connection to talk to
the engineers, those ideas can come to the engineers much
quicker.
So I'll stop there because I get passionate about
materials.
Senator Sinema. We're all in support of that.
Anyone else have a thought about this issue before I move
on? I knew it.
Mr. Wilson. I was just going to add that, so we have an
Automation and Robotics Program. The faculty member is
completing his Ph.D. in Aerospace Engineering. So we really
encourage crossover between programs.
So the composites portion of our Aviation Program, they
work together, and I don't know if everybody knows this or not,
but the community college districts in the state of Arizona, we
have what we call an Arizona Advanced Technology Network.
It started around robotics and automation, but it is
expanding into semiconductors and advanced manufacturing. So if
I was to leave Pima as a student and go to Estrella Mountain,
instead of having to transfer, we are actually building one
program for advanced manufacturing across the state.
It started with four programs which, as far as we know, is
the first time you've head multiple districts for community
colleges partnering and offering the exact same curriculum, and
this summer we're starting to expand across all 10 districts.
So semiconductors, composites, those are areas that we're
going to cover, so students are getting the same program, and
if you think about other states where they've attracted big
business, it's because you can offer one program to the
employers and so Arizona's headed down that path now.
Mr. Ornstein. I think it's a great place to ask that
question. I mean, you know, being a military aviation history
buff, I mean, you had the Corsair Fighters built, you know,
just a few feet away from us and the Goodyear Blimp built just
a few feet away from there, and I think Arizona has such a
fabulous opportunity.
I mean, the wave of technology coming with decarbonizing
electric aircraft, you know, Mesa's partner with United now and
two deals with Urban Mobility Vehicles and the 19-passenger.
All of them depend on advanced composites. Weight is the
critical aspect of all of these aircraft and there are
literally now over a hundred new designs coming out, and I have
been very, very forceful with the companies that I'm dealing
with trying to convince them that coming to Arizona is a place
for them to headquarter and build aircraft. It would be a great
choice for them, and, you know, there's a real opportunity. I
think it's huge to get these companies, some of which have
become incredibly well-financed at this point, and all that
development is critical to their success because weight is the
key obstacle that they all have.
Senator Sinema. This was mentioned earlier in some of your
opening statements, but currently commercial pilots have a
mandatory retirement age of 65. Some of my colleagues in the
Senate have proposed raising the mandatory retirement age to
68.
So I'm going to go first to you, Mr. Ornstein, although we
understand you're definitely the youngest on the panel. So I'm
going to ask you first, then invite perspectives from other
panelists.
You mentioned retirements in your testimony. Can you
provide more context on how such a proposal would impact your
airline?
Mr. Ornstein. Yes. It's a scary day when I always thought I
was the youngest person on panels. Unfortunately, I still have
mirrors in my house, so I know better.
But the fact is I think that by raising the retirement age
to 68 certainly--like I said, we can't have any argument. I
think we all agree that experience is not going to be an issue,
plus there are folks, like I said, Mike Whitman who, you know,
he's going to turn 65. I know without a doubt I'd put my family
on a plane with him in a second.
Do we need to test people as they get older? Sure. I think
there may be some additional testing required, but the fact of
the matter is I think these are highly qualified people. The
vast majority are more than capable of continuing to fly an
aircraft.
I think an arbitrary age, I mean, things have changed. I
mean, people are doing everything as they get older now. The
whole world is changing in regard to that, and for us it would
take a massive amount of pressure off us because the majors
would not have the voracious appetite that they have right now
to hire our folks and it would potentially give us enough
breathing room to catch up which is really critical right now.
So I'm very much in favor of it. I think that, you know,
there are certainly safety nets that can be put in place, but
the fact of the matter is it would be incredibly helpful to us
right now just to, like I said, slow down the velocity of
attrition.
Senator Sinema. Others?
Mr. Ryder. Senator, I would just like to add to that that
I'll reiterate there's nobody more interested in creating a
robust supply of pilots than the Air Line Pilots Association.
However, this is not, you know, a fully well thought
through proposal. It doesn't solve the problem. You know, as
mentioned, kicking the can down the road by 3 years. You know,
we've heard this argument of pilot shortages and issues and
challenges for decades and it hasn't manifested itself because
it's really not there.
We currently have 1.5 pilots for every available job. The
reality is, is that we also have the most safe mode of
transportation in the world. We have a reduction in passenger
fatalities by 99.8 percent.
What we also have is sometimes a failure or shortage of
managements willing to accept the responsibility for their
decisions or lack thereof in being prepared for the challenges
of the aviation industry.
What we've heard earlier was the canceling of flights in
essential air service communities, but that same carrier, while
it pulled out of 29, simultaneously is out EAS flying in other
communities. So that indicates it's not really about the pilot
supply. It's about revenue, and while we can have discussions
on the importance of revenue and certainly as an employee I
enjoy having a carrier that is a successful participant in this
industry, that's not the case for all carriers. They're not all
built alike and what we can't do is to change regulations and
this is not an arbitrary one, it's a standard internationally
through ICAO.
There'd be several implications to this to apply it safely.
We cannot change safety regulations to address the business
decisions and motivations of some carriers that have a lack of
applicants that will have a detrimental effect on the passenger
safety when they get onboard an aircraft.
What we can do is make meaningful change and ALPA is a
strong supporter of improving diversity, removing barriers,
increasing the awareness of these excellent aviation careers
within our industry, and making sure that we have the role
models to bring the next generation alongside us.
I look forward to that, but what we can't do is not boil
down the facts and simply look at short-sighted quick fixes to
problems that don't exist when there are more meaningful and
real underlying issues that are impacting some carriers versus
others.
Senator Sinema. Thank you.
So this will be my final question this afternoon. One of
the key aspects of workforce development is helping students
bridge that gap between schools and employers.
As we've talked about today, Arizona is gifted with a
robust aerospace sector with leading private employers and
having a clear path to employment provides more certainty for
students entering the pipeline.
I know this is something you've been thinking about, Ms.
Donati, and I want to hear from all of you. What else can be
done to encourage coordination not just here in Arizona but
across the Nation as we move forward in the aviation workforce
development?
Ms. Donati. That's the development of pathway programs, so
specifically the Aviate Academy partnering with Aviate over at
United. After our students graduate our program, we provide a
variety of options for them to build their time to 1,500 hours.
That can be done with additional flight schools or can be done
through Part 135 operators and then moving them on to United
Express carrier to prepare them for the flight deck at United
Airlines.
So it's leading the pathway to the career versus allowing
the student to have to figure it out on their own. This is a
very, you know, costly training environment and when you invest
the funds into training, especially a high-quality training
environment, you want to ensure that you have a career set up
for you for success.
Dr. Karlsson. Yes, thank you for that question.
So many of our students, if not most, yes, definitely most,
not all, after they get their certificate for commercial
flight, they still have many hours they need to continue before
they can be commercial airplane pilots, .but that's where we
have pathway programs and many of them then are working for us
or other flight schools as flight instructors.
So, for example, at Prescott Airport where we're located,
we have at least two flight schools and our students end up
working for them or for us. That builds their hours up and they
get paid for their training. So after they have all their
certificates, there's no additional cost for them to become
commercial pilots.
Mr. Ornstein. Again, I think the best course of action that
we could take would be to create additional structured training
pathways so that folks don't have the problems that you're
talking about where it could take them upwards to a quarter of
a million dollars and 6 years of their life to get into a
career that has a hard time retirement.
You know, when people look at their income capability, they
have to add the cost of the investment as part of that and the
ability for them to even make that investment. It's not even a
choice. I think you're just keeping people out.
So I think the more we can do to create those--which the
FAA has the ability to do and as you mentioned, they have three
now. I just think there are more available so that we can
create a way for them to see, you know, light at the end of the
tunnel. It's not going to take literally 6 years to get there,
and I think technology is really the answer to do that.
I mean, when you look at--I mean, you know, again I'll date
myself a little bit. When I went to go, there were games like
Pong. OK. Now I can't even figure out how to play most of the
games that are out there.
But the fact is there has been such an advancement in
technology that I think we can employ that to help move this
process along in a very safe and reliable and a structured
environment.
Mr. Wilson. I work at a community college. So I'm going to
emphasize the community. I certainly agree with the pathways,
right. I mentioned instead of our 18-month Part 147 Program,
you can get through in a Part 65 in 4 weeks without sacrificing
safety obviously, and community colleges need to continue to be
more innovative, but in my 20+ years of working with industry,
it's the most desperate I've seen employers and so I always
like to use this image.
You have to engage, right. You can't sit there at the
bottom of the chute with a catcher's mitt hoping the students
are going to come to you. We expect you to show your face so
the students get to know you, explain your culture, why should
they choose you.
So it's a community effort. We had lunch recently with a
CEO of an MRO in Tucson and posed the question, can you give
$25,000 to $50,000 to make this work so we can stay innovative
when it comes to the technology, and if you're working with us,
you're going to experience the students. You're going to know
who you want to pick. So again community.
Mr. Ryder. So I think one of the things I'd like to point
out for one of my fellow witnesses here is that the pathway for
less than $250,000, less than 6 years already exists actually
right here in Arizona. There are flight schools, flight
academies that can train a pilot through the pathways available
for much less than $250,000 and much quicker than 6 years.
So the facts and reality matter on that, but I will say
that community is important. Our two- and four-year
institutions are exceptional in creating competent aviation
professionals.
I certainly think that our two-year colleges are an under-
utilized resource in many aspects of the aviation community and
can be better partnered with aviation representatives, flight
schools, flight academies, and really provide a robust source
of professionals for the industry.
But there is no one that is more interested in
participating in this and so when talking about building these
groups, I think it's about conversation. I think it's about
partnership like ALPA has with Aviate Academy and working with
United Airlines and Dana's team to make sure that we're working
together collaboratively to identify best practices, find ways
of ensuring that funding is sourced and improving the
confidence in those that are providing that source of funding
to realize the return on the investment, to ensure we meet the
highest safety standards, and so much like as an aviation
professional in my case as an airline pilot, whenever an
abnormality occurs, whenever we're dealing with a challenge, we
build the team and here in this case, we have to build the team
and we have to work together to address where there's a need,
fulfilling that need with the highest standard and the highest
capable individuals.
The great thing about that is whether you go into a middle
school, a high school, a local college or university, you'll
find youth that are fired up about the prospects of aviation
when you introduce this career field, and so we're committed to
not only increasing that diversity but making sure we're
breaking down the barriers for them and so we're a proud
participant and partner with anybody that would like to work
with us on those efforts and in the case of Aviate Academy, we
are proud to be partnering with United Airlines and Aviate to
take that next step and make sure that we have a robust supply
via multiple pathways.
Senator Sinema. Thank you.
And with that, we've reached the end of today's hearing. I
want to thank all of our witnesses for your time and for your
testimony.
The hearing record will remain open for four weeks, until
June 10, 2022. Any Senators who'd like to submit questions for
the record should do so two weeks from now, by May 27, 2022,
and I ask that witnesses' responses be returned to the
Committee by June 10, 2022.
That concludes today's hearing. We are adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:32 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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