[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
2022 MIDTERMS LOOK BACK SERIES: GOVERNMENT VOTER SUPPRESSION IN LUZERNE
COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
MARCH 28, 2023
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
www.govinfo.gov
www.cha.house.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
54-467 PDF WASHINGTON : 2024
Committee on House Administration
BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin, Chairman
BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia JOSEPH MORELLE, New York,
H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia Ranking Member
GREG MURPHY, North Carolina TERRI A. SEWELL, Alabama
STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma DEREK KILMER, Washington
MIKE CAREY, Ohio NORMA TORRES, California
ANTHONY D'ESPOSITO, New York
LAUREL LEE, Florida
Tim Monahan, Staff Director
Jamie Fleet, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Opening Statements
Chairman Bryan Steil, Representative from the State of Wisconsin. 1
Prepared statement of Chairman Bryan Steil................... 4
Ranking Member Joseph Morelle, Representative from the State of
New York....................................................... 6
Prepared statement of Ranking Member Joseph Morelle.......... 8
Witnesses
Jim Bognet, former congressional candidate for PA-08............. 11
Prepared statement of Jim Bognet............................. 14
Darin Gibbons, counsel, Republican National Committee............ 18
Prepared statement of Darin Gibbons.......................... 20
Donald Palmer, commissioner, U.S. Election Assistance Commission. 23
Prepared statement of Donald Palmer.......................... 25
Alisha Hoffman-Mirilovich, executive director, Action Together
NEPA........................................................... 28
Prepared statement of Alisha Hoffman-Mirilovich.............. 30
Theodore Fitzgerald, ABC Bail Bonds.............................. 162
Prepared statement of Theodore Fitzgerald.................... 165
Ben Herring, vice president of the Citizens Advisory of
Pennsylvania................................................... 166
Prepared statement of Ben Herring............................ 168
James Walsh, president of the Citizens Advisory of Pennsylvania
and small business owner....................................... 171
Prepared statement of James Walsh............................ 240
Submissions for the Record
Chelsea Strub transcript......................................... 36
Spotlight PA article............................................. 43
Deputy Secretary of State Jonathan Marks letter.................. 63
Luzerne County home rule charter................................. 64
Screenshot of vacant position of director of the Bureau of
Election Security and Technology............................... 135
ACLU statement................................................... 139
Mark Benjes statement............................................ 149
25 PA Stat. Sec. 2642........................................... 153
Bernadette Hivish statement...................................... 155
Eugene Dougherty transcript...................................... 158
Kim Buerger transcript........................................... 159
Brian Dwyer transcript........................................... 160
Alyssa Fusaro transcript......................................... 161
David Stadler transcript......................................... 161
Affidavits....................................................... 173
Confidential report.............................................. 245
Michael Fratangelo statement..................................... 269
Tioga Publishing and Times Leader articles....................... 273
25 PA Stat. Sec. 2642........................................... 290
Questions for the Record
Donald Palmer answers to submitted questions..................... 293
Darin Gibbons answers to submitted questions..................... 299
Alisha Hoffman-Mirilovich answers to submitted questions......... 302
2022 MIDTERMS LOOK BACK SERIES: GOVERNMENT VOTER SUPPRESSION IN LUZERNE
COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
----------
March 28, 2023
Committee on House Administration,
House of Representatives,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:32 a.m., in
room 1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Bryan Steil
[Chairman of the Committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Steil, Loudermilk, Griffith,
Murphy, Bice, Carey, D'Esposito, Lee, Morelle, Sewell, and
Torres.
Also present: Representative Meuser.
Staff present: Tim Monahan, Staff Director; Caleb Hays,
Deputy Staff Director, General Counsel, Acting Parliamentarian;
Hillary Lassiter, Clerk; Jordan Wilson, Director of Member
Services; Thomas Lane, Elections Counsel and Director of
Elections Coalition; Alex Deise, Counsel; Jamie Fleet, Minority
Staff Director; Khalil Abboud, Minority
Deputy Staff Director, Chief Counsel; Eddie Flaherty,
Minority Chief Clerk; Andrew Garcia, Minority Special
Assistant; Sarah Nasta, Minority Elections Counsel; and Sean
Wright, Minority Senior Elections Counsel.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BRYAN STEIL, CHAIRMAN OF THE
COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM
WISCONSIN
Chairman Steil. The Committee on House Administration will
come to order.
I note that a quorum is present. Without objection, the
chair may declare a recess at any time. Without objection, the
meeting record will remain open for 5 legislative days so
Members may submit any materials they wish to be included
therein.
Thank you, Ranking Member Morelle and Members of the
Committee, for participating in today's hearing on the 2022
midterm election in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania.
What exactly happened? Let us look back.
In 2022, our Nation faced a major supply chain crisis,
including the paper needed to make ballots. The Committee on
House Administration Republicans, the Election Assistance
Commission, and several media outlets warned a ballot paper
shortage could disrupt the 2022 election. In fact, Committee
Republicans held a widely attended and covered roundtable on
the ballot paper shortage crisis in early 2022.
The Election Assistance Commission encouraged State and
local election officials to prepare by ensuring they ordered
enough ballots well in advance of the November election. I
warned officials in my home State of Wisconsin about the need
to prepare.
In fact, in July 2022, I spoke with CBS 58, a CBS affiliate
in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and said, quote, ``One of the things
is that paper ballots are a pretty unique type of paper. It is
not just your average, everyday type of paper that you can snag
off the shelf, which is good because it provides election
integrity, but it is challenging for suppliers,'' end quote.
Unfortunately for voters in Luzerne County, their election
officials seemed to be the only ones who did not listen to the
warnings. In Luzerne County, on election day 2022, nearly one-
third of precincts ran out of paper. In some cases, there were
shortages just after the polls opened. This resulted in voters
being turned away from the polls and denied their right to
vote.
When some voters later returned to the polls, they
discovered there were still no ballots. Effectively, many polls
in Luzerne County were closed for hours on election day, and
some did not reopen.
In response to the ballot shortage, election officials and
voters rushed to stores such as Staples to buy standard copy
paper for voters to use for voter-created emergency ballots,
something that is truly unbelievable in American elections
today.
They were then instructed to write out choices on standard
20-pound paper, vote by photocopies of ballots instead of
ballot paper, or cast emergency or provisional ballots in place
of standard ballots. They had no guarantee that the voting
equipment would be able to process these irregular ballots or
that their vote would count.
The Luzerne County Board of Elections has the authority and
responsibility to investigate this election disaster. Yet 6
days after the election, on November 14th, the board voted to
send the investigation to the district attorney, District
Attorney Sam Sanguedolce.
Twenty days after the election, on November 28, the board
met and voted not to certify the election because the problems
were obvious.
Then, 2 days later, on November 30, in a partisan vote
following public pressure, three Democratic commissioners
reversed course and voted to certify the election in spite of
the obvious problems.
To date, no official action has been taken in Luzerne
County. No report from the district attorney. No report from
the secretary of state. No report from the Luzerne County Board
of Elections.
There must be accountability. Our Committee is focused on
figuring out how this happened and ensuring it never happens
again. This is all the more important as Pennsylvania prepares
for a State election in May and a Presidential election next
year.
In America, every interested and eligible citizen who wants
to cast a ballot has the right to do so, and that vote must
count in accordance with law.
We invited several officials from Luzerne County to come
today and answer some very straightforward questions about how
this election disaster occurred. They are not here.
We also need to learn how they intend to prevent this from
happening in the future. It is disappointing they declined our
invitation.
I hope those officials who refused to come and testify
today are watching to hear from voters in Luzerne County whose
votes were suppressed due to their negligence.
For years, several of our colleagues on the other side of
the aisle have claimed that States like Florida and Georgia
that have implemented voter integrity laws are suppressing
voters. In fact, for 2 years, I have sat through dozens of
hearings on this topic. However, they never produced a single
voter who wanted to vote and was unable to.
Contrast that with today, as we hold a hearing with
evidence that voters who wanted to legally vote were turned
away from the polls.
Today we are working to bring transparency and
accountability to the voters of Luzerne County who were failed
by their local election officials.
Citizens of Luzerne County deserve to be heard. They have
the right to vote. They need answers from those who are elected
to serve them.
My goal is to provide transparency, to hold those
accountable, and to prevent this disaster from ever happening
again.
I now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle, for 5
minutes for the purpose of providing an opening statement.
[The prepared statement of Chairman Steil follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOUSE
ADMINISTRATION BRYAN STEIL
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOSEPH MORELLE, RANKING MEMBER OF THE
COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM
NEW YORK
Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Chairman Steil, for yielding me
time.
Thank you to the witnesses for joining us this morning.
Today's hearing is more than a bit confusing for those of
us on the minority side of the aisle. Some facts are very
clear. There is no doubt there was a paper-related problem or
shortage at multiple precincts in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania,
on election day, November 8, 2022. That is, without a question,
a very, very bad thing.
I understand the remedy decided upon by local officials was
to afford voters the opportunity to vote by other means.
Nonetheless, there should never be a case where election
officials are caught napping and do not have enough paper. Such
a situation is completely unacceptable, and we share our
majority colleagues' alarm.
This raises serious questions. Did someone forget to buy
paper? Or did they buy the wrong kind of paper? Who bears the
responsibility for ordering and purchasing paper? How many
voters were affected by this? Were voters denied the right to
vote? Did election workers offer each voter a backup method of
voting? How many voters took advantage of the opportunity to
use a backup method of voting?
Some have suggested laws may have been broken, and to that
point, the local district attorney, as my colleague, the chair,
has suggested, the local district attorney has been
investigating the incident, and according to press reports,
hopes to be done with that investigation soon. The resulting
report, we would expect, would answer these sorts of factual
questions and would make some recommendations on who is to
blame and whether or not criminal charges would be forthcoming
as a result of breaking laws with criminal intent.
Which brings us to the question that is sort of mystifying
to us on this side of the aisle. What exactly are we trying to
accomplish in today's hearing? There is no one here from
Luzerne County government and no one here from the Pennsylvania
Department of State, individuals who could actually shed some
light and provide answers to some of these key questions.
Our colleagues in the majority did invite folks from both
offices, yet they declined, citing a reluctance to interfere
with the ongoing district attorney's investigation.
Their reluctance seems logical, at least from our point of
view. If you bring witnesses from a DA's investigation into a
congressional hearing before the investigation is concluded,
the witnesses might contradict their own testimony to the DA,
contradict each other, or tank the future testimony of other
witnesses.
Not interfering with an ongoing investigation is a familiar
enough concept, although we are spending a fair amount of time
here in Washington talking about it lately.
In any event, that leaves the question I asked earlier:
What is the purpose of today's hearing? If it is to establish
that something went wrong last November in Luzerne County, we
completely agree. This much has already been established.
Again, the minority has been fighting for the rights of
every voter as long as I can remember, and this case is no
different.
The title of this hearing, ``Government Voter Suppression
in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania,'' more than implies a
concerted, intentional effort--a conspiracy, if you will--to
disenfranchise voters. Is the majority suggesting a conspiracy
on the part of the Luzerne County Council to suppress voters?
The county council has 11 members, 10 of whom are Republicans.
I am also led to understand--and I am no expert on Luzerne
County politics--but it is not exactly a bastion of progressive
politics.
If it is to establish that suppression resulted in the
outcome of the 2022 elections in Luzerne County being false or
inaccurate, I would just say that, as it relates to the House
races, we did not receive any election contests--which is a
formal complaint filed with the House of Representatives--
touching on Luzerne County this year. In fact, we did not
receive any contests at all, which as the majority has pointed
out, highlights the successes of the 2022 midterm elections.
We have heard a fair amount from our colleagues in the
majority on the need for decentralized election administration.
They argue for States' rights and limited Federal intervention.
I am not sure this is the best example of such a principle.
In any event, I just wanted to touch on the limited nature
of the exercise we are engaging in today and to continue to
raise questions that we have about why we are even here today
and why we are not waiting for the district attorney's report,
why we are not waiting to make sure that we have a better
understanding of the fact pattern from local officials and
State officials as to what happened, how the paper shortage
occurred, who is responsible, and who has the liability.
I also note that the county manager--perhaps not related to
this at all--resigned from office within days of the election.
Now, whether or not that had anything to do with the paper
shortage and who is responsible, I cannot say. I just note that
that manager was hired again by a county council that has 10
Republican members out of its 11-member board.
We want to know what is happening. We certainly do not want
any voter to be disenfranchised in the United States of
America. That is a principle on which we have fought for
decades and we will continue to fight.
With that, thank you all again for being here.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
[The prepared statement of Ranking Member Morelle follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOUSE
ADMINISTRATION JOSEPH MORELLE
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Steil. I thank the Ranking Member.
Without objection, all Members' opening statements will be
made part of the record hearing if they are submitted to the
Committee clerk by 5 p.m. today.
Pursuant to paragraph (b) of Committee rule 6, the
witnesses will please stand and raise your right hand.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Chairman Steil. Let the record show that the witnesses
answered in the affirmative and may be seated.
I will now introduce our first panel of witnesses.
Our first witness, Mr. Bognet, ran as the Republican
candidate in Pennsylvania's Eighth Congressional District in
the 2022 midterm election. Born and raised in Hazleton,
Pennsylvania, Mr. Bognet previously held a senior appointment
in the Trump administration where he worked on manufacturing
and small business issues before resigning this position to run
for Congress.
Our next witness, Mr. Darin Gibbons, has been an attorney
for the Republican National Committee since October 2021. Mr.
Gibbons worked in Pennsylvania on election day for its 2021 and
2022 elections and was in Luzerne County throughout the recent
difficulties in the 2022 election.
Our next witness, Commissioner Don Palmer, was appointed by
President Trump and confirmed by the U.S. Senate on January 2,
2019, to serve as the U.S. Election Assistance Commission
commissioner.
During his tenure at the Election Assistance Commission,
Commissioner Palmer has served as a Designated Federal Officer
of the EAC's Technical Guidance Development Committee, which is
charged with developing the Voluntary Voting System Guidelines,
which sets standards for voting machine testing and
certification.
Commissioner Palmer is a former Secretary of the Virginia
State Board of Elections and served as the Commonwealth's Chief
Election Official from 2011 to 2014. He also previously served
as Florida's State Election Director.
Finally, Alisha Hoffman-Mirilovich is the executive
director of Action Together NEPA, a grassroots, nonprofit
advocacy organization that works to build community and
increase civic engagement. Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich is in her
second term as the elected Pennsylvania Democratic State
committee member for Luzerne County, Pennsylvania.
We appreciate our witnesses being here with us today, and
we look forward to your testimony. As a reminder, we have read
your written statements, and it will appear in full in the
hearing record. Under Committee rule 9, you are limited to your
oral presentation to a brief summary of your written statement,
unless I extend this time in consultation with Ranking Member
Morelle.
Please remember to press the button on your microphone in
front of you so that it is on and all Members can hear you.
When you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn
green. After 4 minutes, the light will turn yellow. When the
red light comes on, your 5 minutes has expired, and we would
ask you to please wrap up.
I will now recognize Mr. Bognet for 5 minutes for the
purpose of making an opening statement.
STATEMENTS OF MR. JIM BOGNET, FORMER CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE
FOR PA-08; MR. DARIN GIBBONS, COUNSEL, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL
COMMITTEE; THE HONORABLE DONALD PALMER, COMMISSIONER, U.S.
ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION; AND MS. ALISHA HOFFMAN-
MIRILOVICH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ACTION TOGETHER NEPA
STATEMENT OF JIM BOGNET
Mr. Bognet. Thank you to all Members of the Committee for
having me today.
My name is Jim Bognet. I live in Hazle Township,
Pennsylvania, in Luzerne County. I was the Republican nominee
for Congress in 2022 in Pennsylvania's Eighth Congressional
District.
The general election which took place in Luzerne County on
November 8, 2022, was a complete disaster. The gross
incompetence of the Election Bureau brought national shame on
Luzerne County. The most common statement heard from voters and
the press was: How do you run out of paper at the polls?
Most importantly, many Luzerne County voters were
disenfranchised through no fault of their own, and some voters
still do not know if their votes were counted.
The problems began early on election morning as we received
calls saying that polling places across the county had run out
of paper on which votes are recorded from the voting machines
and fed by voters into the tabulators, which completes the
submission of each vote.
Voters were turned away from the polls and told to come
back later or asked to submit provisional or alternative
ballots, which many voters refused to do.
Some voters got out of line and left in disgust, and it is
impossible to calculate how many left the polls. Others were
asked to leave their phone numbers and told they would be
called when the county workers provided more paper hours later.
We heard from at least a dozen polling places that voters
were being turned away and denied their right to vote.
The paper shortage was widespread. The County Election
Bureau had a giant whiteboard filled with the names of many
precincts which ran out of paper or where other issues
occurred, and this is that whiteboard. I believe it is been
entered into evidence.
By early afternoon, it was clear that in many polling
places across Luzerne County, the polls were closed on election
day for hours at a time. Luzerne County took the extraordinary
step of going to court and asking a judge to order that the
voting period be extended from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. across the
county due to the unprecedented closing of the polls. Our
campaign agreed to support this because we wanted to make sure
every lawful voter had a chance to vote.
Stop for a minute and consider how extraordinary this is.
On election day, with a Governor, Senate, and two congressional
races, as well as many local races occurring, Luzerne County
had to walk into a judge's chamber and admit that polling
places were effectively closed and had no paper to record votes
on. In Luzerne County, the polls were closed on election day,
disenfranchising voters.
I spoke over the weekend with Eugene Dougherty, an 84-year-
old citizen of Hazleton, Pennsylvania. He went to vote at 8:09
p.m. He was told that they would be open till 10 p.m. The
election worker had went home, closed the poll. She did not
have childcare. Him and his wife did not have a chance to vote.
In the aftermath of the election day fiasco, Luzerne County
tried to cover up the incredible mistakes that were made.
Rather than take responsibility for what had happened, as the
Ranking Member suggested, County Manager Randy Robertson
announced that evening that he was resigning for, quote/
unquote, ``personal reasons.'' He has never answered a
question.
Denise Williams, the head of the Election Board, allowed
public comment at hearings, but flatly refused to answer any
question put to her. In fact, Ms. Williams admonished voters
for directing questions toward the board and refused to provide
any information about the paper shortage.
In an open canvassing hearing the day after the election,
the acting head of the Luzerne County Bureau of Elections, Beth
McBride, an elected Democrat city councilwoman in Wilkes-Barre,
refused to answer any questions from the press or public. No
explanation was provided for the paper shortage.
The Luzerne County administration has done everything in
their power to deny responsibility and evade accountability for
the disastrous election they administered. Many voters attended
an Election Board meeting on November 14 to express their
outrage. Citizens were not provided with any answers as to who
was responsible for ordering the paper for the polling places.
Election Bureau head Beth McBride was present and asked
many times whose responsibility it was to order the ballot
paper, but she refused to answer questions.
We are left with one of two inescapable conclusions. Either
Luzerne County election administrators forgot to order and
provide paper to all polling locations, or Luzerne County
election administrators purposely did not provide enough paper
to over 40 polling locations.
No one here present today can answer which of those two
things happened, for only the election administrators, McBride
and Williams, can provide these answers. Both of these
officials have refused your Committee's request to testify.
Voters across Luzerne County have called me and expressed
their outrage that 4.5 months later election officials still
will not answer questions.
My goal in testifying today is to ask that all the facts be
brought to light and responsible officials be compelled to
testify in public under oath and we make whatever changes are
necessary to ensure this never happens again. Sunlight is the
best disinfectant, and the conduct of elections in Luzerne
County needs to be cleaned up completely.
Our right to vote is sacred. My grandparents served in
World War II to fight for our freedom and right to vote. My
grandfather was an Italian immigrant, came through Ellis
Island. He told me he never missed an election in Luzerne
County.
We must restore faith in fair elections among voters of all
parties. I believe this can only be done through your thorough
congressional investigation.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Bognet follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF JIM BOGNET
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Steil. Thank you, Mr. Bognet.
Mr. Darin Gibbons, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF DARIN GIBBONS
Mr. Gibbons. Thank you. Chairman Steil, Ranking Member
Morelle, and Members of the Committee, thank you for the
opportunity to testify today.
My name is Darin Gibbons, and I have been an attorney for
the Republican National Committee since October 2021. During
the 2022 midterm elections, I oversaw the RNC's legal election
integrity efforts in Pennsylvania and other northeastern
States. My role on election day was to monitor and manage the
issues reported to our Pennsylvania election day headquarters.
What happened in Luzerne is a national issue because of the
impact poor election administration can have on voters'
confidence. The main objective of the RNC's election integrity
program is to protect and champion voter rights and build trust
in the election process.
Pennsylvania's Luzerne County faced a catastrophic
breakdown on election day in 2022. County officials supplied
polling places with an insufficient quantity of ballots to get
through even the first hours of voting. This led to voters
checking in and not receiving ballots, voters being turned
away, and voters casting ballots on incorrect paper not
recognized by tabulators.
Poll workers and party observers scrambled to get answers
from the county and the State to no avail. They simply could
not and did not take adequate steps to resolve or mitigate
these problems.
Failures like those in Luzerne County not only have the
direct effect of disenfranchising voters through no fault of
their own, it also severely diminishes voters' confidence in
our elections.
I thank the Committee for taking this matter seriously and
examining how it occurred in order to prevent it from happening
again, whether in Luzerne or anywhere else in our country.
In hindsight, there were early warning signs that
foreshadowed Luzerne was ill-prepared to competently administer
this election. For example, it was reported that the county
mailed 937 duplicate mail ballots in the weeks leading up the
election. The county also had a recent history of senior staff
turnover.
Even with these early warning signs, no one could have
predicted a meltdown on this scale. On election day morning,
the headquarters received reports of towns that were out of
ballots. Reports of ballot shortages continued, and we noticed
the polling locations reporting these issues were all coming
from Luzerne. It was apparent that this was a county-wide
issue.
The RNC's headquarters received reports that a polling
location turned away 50 voters because of ballot shortages. A
location sent an individual to go purchase computer paper from
a store to use for makeshift ballot paper, and locations'
machines were not properly scanning ballots.
Around 1 p.m., the solicitor filed an emergency petition to
the Court of Common Pleas, which subsequently ordered a 2-hour
poll extension and that voters voting during the extension cast
provisional ballots as required by Federal law. However, due to
the ballot shortage, some precincts were already out of
provisional ballots.
Getting accurate information from the county throughout the
day was difficult. On Wednesday morning, we dispatched a
retained attorney to Luzerne County Board of Elections canvas
to give public comment on how the party expected the county to
ensure every legal vote was counted.
The Luzerne County Board of Elections called a special
meeting on November 14, almost a week after the election, to
allow for public comment. Disenfranchised voters and impacted
poll workers commented that evening, and the board voted to
refer the matter to the district attorney for investigation.
A lawsuit by the Bognet for Congress campaign led to a
court order for the county to produce a poll book
reconciliation. By our analysis, there may have been more than
4,400 more votes signed into poll books than there were votes
on tape. However, some of these sign-ins are accounted for by
further analyzing the county's notes.
It remains difficult to tell exactly how many votes may
have not been counted in Luzerne, but it can be concluded that
voters were disenfranchised.
Although there are slightly less than 200,000 registered
voters in Luzerne County, a systemic failure like this is a
national issue. It is not just a failure by Luzerne County, but
it is a failure by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and its
Department of State.
It is inevitable that things will go wrong on election day,
but good election administration accounts for problems and
ensures there are clear procedures for what poll workers are
supposed to do when things go wrong.
Pennsylvania has a reputation for inconsistent election
administration practices throughout its counties, which can
largely be attributed to a lack of leadership from the
Pennsylvania Department of State.
Despite warning signs such as the staff turnover, the
mailing of duplicate ballots, and early reports of shortages on
election day, the State left the county to fend for itself
during the post-election aftermath.
I thank you for having me here today. The RNC is focused on
building voters' confidence in elections, and we are optimistic
that together we can find solutions that prevent this from
happening again.
I look forward to answering your questions and continuing
to engage with the Committee as we work for fair and secure
elections.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Gibbons follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF DARIN GIBBONS
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Steil. Thank you very much, Mr. Gibbons.
Mr. Donald Palmer, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF DONALD PALMER
Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Morelle, Members of the
Committee, I appreciate the opportunity to appear today to
address the ongoing work of the U.S. Election Assistance
Commission, or EAC, as part of your series on the 2022
midterms.
Today, I would like to discuss the role of the EAC's
testing and certification program in protecting the integrity
of voting equipment and materials recently used during the
general election in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania.
Our testing and certification program was successfully
administered in the 2022 midterms and will continue to be
instrumental as we help election officials prepare for the 2024
elections.
Election integrity and cybersecurity of our election
assistance play a vital role in our national security. Every
lawfully cast vote counts, and I share your concern for these
issues.
To provide background into the issues faced by Luzerne
County, I would like to briefly describe the role of the
Certification Division.
Guided by the Help America Vote Act of 2002, or HAVA, this
program continues to ensure the accessibility, security, and
accuracy of voting equipment, strengthening the confidence of
elections.
Toward this goal, the commission recently implemented the
Voluntary Voting System Guidelines 2.0. This was achieved
through the ongoing support of the Congress, the dedication of
experts, election officials, and EAC staff.
In 2023, the EAC is advancing our testing and certification
efforts in several areas. More recently, the agency is working
to launch an innovative Field Services Program to help election
officials strengthen the overall posture and preparedness. This
endeavor will bring EAC staff onsite to work with local
officials on systems monitoring.
Regarding the issues that occurred in Luzerne County,
Pennsylvania, the EAC-certified configuration utilized by the
county requires the use of ballot paper that is specified by
the manufacturer and tested within the EAC's program. The
technical data package for this system, Dominion Democracy
Suite 5.5-Alpha, details the paper manufacturer, type, weight,
and color finish of that product.
Although election officials must occasionally make
difficult supply decisions, we encourage contingency planning
to the maximum extent possible. This includes procurement of a
sufficient supply of machine-appropriate paper and using
provisional ballots when necessary.
The apparent decision to use an alternative to the
specified paper stock was necessitated by an unacceptable
situation on the ground. While guidelines and election law
pertaining to paper ballot ordering are determined at the State
level, there are areas where we can provide guidance,
particularly in the event of an emergency.
In addition, States may use HAVA election security grant
funding for procuring ballot stock and ballot stock with
security features such as watermarks or unique ballot
identifiers.
It should also be noted that the EAC has closely monitored
the paper stock issue and issued an alert in the summer of 2022
warning about the nationwide paper shortage. The EAC organized
roundtable discussions on risks associated with the shortage
and worked with the Election Infrastructure Subsector
Coordinating Council to create additional guidance.
EAC is also launching a portal to connect election
officials with nearby jurisdictions that use similar voting
systems and may be able to share excess ballot stock in the
event of a deficiency.
To specifically address the VVSG 2.0 guidelines regarding
paper used in voting systems, an update would be necessary to
require detection mechanisms for ballot paper specifications.
The EAC will work through the HAVA-mandated process to consider
these revisions.
Occasionally in an election the locality or precinct will
run out of ballots for voters. It is an extremely unfortunate
and avoidable situation. The ability to offer a ballot to a
voter is fundamental to any free and fair election. Every
election official I meet is dedicated to facilitating the right
to vote for their citizens.
In November 2024, the people of the United States will
administer and take part in the Nation's 60th Presidential
election. Our preparations are already well underway. Together,
we must work to improve elections at all levels of government
and ensure that issues like those that occurred in Luzerne
County do not happen again.
Thank you for your continued support of the EAC and your
unwavering commitment to election administrators, poll workers,
and our Nation's public servants. We look forward to working
closely with you on these and other important matters.
I would be pleased to address any questions. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Palmer follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF DONALD PALMER
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Steil. Thank you very much, Mr. Palmer.
I now recognize Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich for the purpose of
making an opening statement.
STATEMENT OF ALISHA HOFFMAN-MIRILOVICH
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. Chairman Steil, Ranking Member
Morelle, and Members of the Committee, thank you for the
opportunity to testify today.
My name is Alisha Hoffman-Mirilovich, and I am a lifelong
Pennsylvanian and have lived in Luzerne County for
approximately 18 years. I am a proud community leader and a
mom.
I serve as the executive director of Action Together NEPA.
We are a nonprofit progressive advocacy organization with
chapters across northeastern Pennsylvania, including one in
Luzerne County. We advocate for protecting the freedom to vote
and expanding access to the ballot box, and we work to engage
and empower a community of voters.
On election day in 2022, we learned that some polling
locations were experiencing paper shortages. A court order was
issued to extend polling times by 2 hours to allow voters
additional time to vote. Our organization shifted all available
resources to Luzerne County to make sure voters were aware of
the extension.
After election day, Action Together NEPA members and staff
attended every session of the Board of Elections adjudication
and certification process. We assisted in locating bipartisan
volunteers to support in the transcription of emergency
ballots. We held post-election updates and events, highlighting
the process that was still underway at the time, and worked to
ensure that voters understood the steps in the certification
process.
We do not yet know the cause of the paper shortage, as
there is an ongoing investigation by District Attorney Sam
Sanguedolce. We do know that elections in Luzerne County have
been plagued by high turnover and loss of institutional memory
for years.
Some background on the structure of the Luzerne County
government and its Elections Bureau may assist the Committee in
understanding this matter.
Luzerne is a home rule county with a county council.
Currently, 10 Republicans and 1 Democrat compose that council.
The council hires the county manager, who is the head of our
county administrative government, with the power to hire,
terminate, and supervise personnel. The county manager oversees
daily operations of county departments, including the Bureau of
Elections.
The Board of Elections is a commission composed of five
citizen volunteers that works in coordination with the bureau
to establish policy, but does not directly manage elections
administration.
During multiple periods in the last 4 years, the county has
lacked a permanent elections director for months at a time,
including the ramp-up to and execution of the 2022 general
election.
Earlier this year, a press analysis found that, from 2016
to 2019, department staff had a median of 17 to 22 years of
experience. That number fell to roughly 1 year of median
experience in 2020 and 2021.
Since December 2019, the bureau has had five different
directors. Since August 2020, the bureau has had five different
deputy directors. This chronic turnover does not foster the
stability and institutional knowledge that is needed to
seamlessly carry out elections.
As an organization that cares deeply about any potential
disenfranchisement or issues that could impact voting, we need
government at every level to support and fully fund our
elections.
This includes providing sufficient funding to ensure
adequate staffing levels, enough paper and supplies ordered in
a timely fashion, and professional election administrators put
in place to provide appropriate responses during and after
election day.
These are some measures that can increase faith in our
elections, and we need our Government to provide the proper
funding and resources to make that happen.
Action Together NEPA will be vigilant in our efforts to
support an election system that reduces errors, responds when
issues arise, and prioritizes the rights of voters.
None of us ever want something like this to happen again.
We hope that the Committee appreciates that the Luzerne County
community came together, working to fix the problem, to help
affected voters, and to count eligible votes.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look
forward to answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF ALISHA HOFFMAN-MIRILOVICH
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Steil. Thank you very much, Ms. Hoffman-
Mirilovich.
During today's hearing, some recorded testimony will be
provided via video screens in the hearing room and will be
broadcast as part of the live coverage.
The first video to be played is of WNEP reporter Chelsea
Strub, who took to Facebook Live on election day to report on
Luzerne County's ballot paper shortage issues. The video offers
a good overview of the situation of Luzerne County in real time
on election day 2022.
While outside her home precinct in Harveys Lake, Ms. Strub
highlights in her video the problems that she and other voters
in Luzerne County experienced due to the ballot paper issue on
election day.
Let us play the clip.
Mr. Morelle. Well, I have a parliamentary inquiry before we
begin.
Chairman Steil. The gentleman is recognized.
Mr. Morelle. Is this a witness under oath?
Chairman Steil. No. Pursuant to rule 20, we are
establishing procedures and taking such actions as may be
necessary to carry out the responsibilities of the Committee
and to facilitate its effective operation.
Mr. Morelle. I am not sure I understand this. Making the
video available by unanimous consent, which is what we do with
written materials, seems appropriate. Anybody who wants to
watch the video at some point, I think, would be able to do
that.
Playing it is akin, in my mind, to me reading all the
submissions in writing that we typically submit for entry into
the record. Is there a distinction here that is being made?
Chairman Steil. There is no distinction that is being made.
Written records may be inserted into the record, and in this
case, video will also be entered into the record.
Mr. Morelle. Well, why do not we just have the link sent to
everyone? They can watch it at their leisure, just the same way
that you do with submitted written testimony.
Chairman Steil. In the decision of the chair, he has made
the decision--I have made the decision to play.
Does the gentleman have a further parliamentary inquiry?
Otherwise, we will play the video.
Mr. Morelle. Is this period of time--I do not know how long
the video is--is that coming out of the 5 minutes by one of the
members of the majority?
Chairman Steil. No.
Mr. Morelle. Will we get the additional time that this--who
is not a witness, apparently, because we cannot cross-examine
the witness--so this is just additional time being used.
How do we equalize the time that is being used to watch a
video that we cannot ask the person in the video any questions?
I have never seen this done before.
Chairman Steil. I would--well, I will offer two things. The
gentleman is welcome to go back and look at last Congress. The
select Committee that was created by the Speaker, the Select
Committee on January 6th, did this often. If he did not see
those hearings, I would suggest that the Ranking Member take
the time to review those.
I would also note that, under rule 20, the chair may
establish such other procedures and take such actions as may be
necessary to carry out the responsibilities of the Committee in
the chair's discretion. I am playing this video, unless there
is a further parliamentary inquiry.
Mr. Morelle. Well, I would just note that I believe the
January 6th Committee, which you are referring to, I think it
was done by unanimous consent. There has not been a motion made
on unanimous consent here. Obviously, I cannot stop you, but I
do want to express the minority's opposition to this since we
cannot ask anyone in the video any questions. They are not
subject to being under oath when they give testimony. I am not
really sure what this is.
Anyway, we will----
Chairman Steil. The gentleman's objection is noted.
Mr. Morelle. Thank you.
Chairman Steil. I am more than happy to take a vote as to
whether or not this video should be played.
Mr. Morelle. No. I just register my opposition.
Chairman Steil. The opposition is recognized.
Is there a parliamentary inquiry?
Mrs. Torres. Absolutely. Was this video presented to the
members of the minority in advance, as the statements are
presented in advance of any meeting. Witnesses' names and bios
are often part of the record and given in advance.
Was this tape made available to the minority prior to
today's meeting?
Chairman Steil. The minority Committee staff was made aware
videos would be played at today's hearing. There is no
obligation from the majority to provide the videos in advance,
nor, to my knowledge, was a request for the videos made.
Now, unless there is a further parliamentary inquiry----
Mrs. Torres. Was the minority staff notified that this
video would be played today?
Chairman Steil. First, there is no obligation to provide
advance notice. I provided advance notice to try to be as
forthcoming and transparent as possible to the minority.
If there is no further parliamentary inquiry, we will play
the video.
Mrs. Torres. I do. How is it that you are comparing a
commission to a full Committee, are very different. You are
comparing apples to oranges. This is not a commission that--
Committee--a commission hearing. This is a full Committee
hearing. Yet you are presenting----
Chairman Steil. May I ask which commission the gentlewoman
is referring to?
Mrs. Torres. Well, you mentioned the January 6th
commission.
Chairman Steil. That was a Committee. That was a select
Committee created by Speaker Pelosi.
With no further parliamentary inquiries being recognized,
we will roll the video.
[Video shown.]
[The Chelsea Strub transcript referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Steil. Again, that was Ms. Strub with the local
affiliate of--or the affiliate WNEP.
I will now begin our questions today, followed by the
Ranking Member. We will then alternate between the parties. I
now recognize myself for the purpose of questioning our
witnesses.
Thank you all for taking your time and being here with us
today.
Mr. Bognet, you ran in Pennsylvania's Eighth Congressional
District. What percentage of Luzerne County is, roughly, in the
Eighth Congressional District in Pennsylvania?
Mr. Bognet. Luzerne County accounts for approximately 38,
39 percent of the population in the district. Less people
voted--less votes were counted than, percentage-wise, we
thought would be in Luzerne County.
Chairman Steil. About 38 percent of the congressional
district is in Luzerne County. What percentage of Luzerne
County is in the Eighth Congressional District? About 85
percent? Is that roughly accurate?
Mr. Bognet. Eighty-five percent. The rest is in Mr.
Meuser's district.
Chairman Steil. Okay. Where were you on the ballot in the
November 2020 election? You were running for the Eighth
Congressional District, correct?
Mr. Bognet. That is right.
Chairman Steil. When did you or your campaign become aware
that precincts in Luzerne County did not have ballot paper on
election day?
Mr. Bognet. Very early in the morning. I hit about 16
precincts on election day going around greeting voters. We
started to hear very early in the morning, I would say in the 9
o'clock hour, we started to hear from voters calling me,
texting me, texting my campaign saying: They are turning us
away. They do not have paper. They will not let us vote. What
do we do? We are suspicious about doing it on provisional
ballots because of all the problems. What should we do?
That was the first that we heard about it.
Chairman Steil. About 9, 9 o'clock, somewhere in the 9
o'clock hour, you began to hear about it.
Polls open in Pennsylvania at 7 a.m. Is that correct?
Mr. Bognet. That is correct.
Chairman Steil. Less than 3 hours into election day
problems began to arise.
Are you aware of voters being turned away at the polls in
Luzerne County on election day?
Mr. Bognet. Yes. I mean, we heard multiple stories. We had
a hotline set up. We had hundreds of calls to that hotline. We
had affidavits submitted. People that were told to leave and
leave their phone number and they would be called back later in
the day to come back happened in some precincts.
Chairman Steil. A whole series of problems. Many people
were unable to vote.
Did you or your campaign bring legal action?
Mr. Bognet. We did. We brought a lawsuit in the post-
election period to try to get a ballot reconciliation of the
people--the number of people who signed in to vote versus the
number of votes that were counted.
Chairman Steil. You brought forward a legal action.
What was the Luzerne County Board of Elections' response to
your legal--let me ask first. Your legal action, was that to
the Luzerne County Board of Elections?
Mr. Bognet. Correct.
Chairman Steil. What was the response of the Luzerne County
Board of Elections to your legal action?
Mr. Bognet. Well, of course, they fought it. They showed
up. Ms. McBride testified. That is the only time she has
testified so far under oath about what happened.
They fought it. They said everything's fine. A judge kind
of arbitrated and got them to agree that they would release
within the next few days a precinct-by-precinct spreadsheet of
who signed in to vote versus who voted. Of course, when they
did that, there was something like a 4-to 5,000 disparity.
Chairman Steil. Has the county elections director provided
an explanation on how the ballot paper shortage occurred or
answered any of your questions regarding this fiasco?
Mr. Bognet. She has refused to answer any questions at any
public hearing, has never said on the record anything, and
continues to refuse, did not attend here today.
Chairman Steil. It is my understanding, then, that the
Board of Elections referred this matter to the district
attorney for investigation.
Do you agree with the board's decision to refer this to the
district attorney?
Mr. Bognet. That was an extreme abdication of their duty.
That was during a period where certification would occur
afterwards. They refused to investigate what happened before
certifying. There was incredible citizen outrage, hundreds of
people attending meetings that usually two or three people come
to.
They would not answer questions then, and they kind of used
the DA's investigation as an, ``Oh, yes, they will take care of
it. Maybe next month we will hear about it.'' They never
answered a single question from a voter on how this fiasco
occurred.
Chairman Steil. Since the Board of Elections handed this
investigation off to the district attorney on November 14,
2022, has anything happened? Has there been a report? Has
anyone been prosecuted?
Mr. Bognet. There have been no reports. There have been no
prosecutions. They have used the district attorney's
investigation as a shield to not have to answer questions. I
believe they have used it to help cover up.
Now, my understanding is the district attorney is doing a
criminal investigation. Who knows if criminal activity
occurred? He will investigate that.
What about gross incompetence? What about forgetting to
order ballot paper? They will not answer questions. Those same
people are going to be conducting the May election, which is
outrageous.
Chairman Steil. The fact that there has been no report, no
evidence coming forward as to what happened, who is involved,
there is no report from the district attorney, no report from
your secretary of state, no report from the Elections Board in
this case, in your opinion, does that enhance the confidence of
voters in Luzerne County regarding their elections or does it
hurt their confidence in the elections?
Mr. Bognet. The voters of Luzerne County are disgusted.
They have lost faith in their elections. They have lost faith
in their Election Bureau.
This is not the first election we have had problems. There
were problems in the 2020 and 2021 elections. This takes the
cake, of course. They ran out of paper.
The amount of voters that have called me and told me that
they may not vote ever again because they do not believe their
vote matters, it is really a sad day for American democracy.
Chairman Steil. Thank you very much, Mr. Bognet. I
appreciate your time with us today.
Let me shift briefly, if I can, to you, Ms. Alisha Hoffman-
Mirilovich.
In this election, did every eligible citizen who wanted to
vote, were they able to vote? Yes or no?
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. I do not know.
Chairman Steil. You do not know if there were individuals
in Luzerne County who were attempting to vote but were unable
to?
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. I have no knowledge. I do not. I am
not part of the administration.
Chairman Steil. Understood. Okay. You are unclear. I think,
by the end of today's hearing, maybe that will be cleared up
for you.
Should every eligible citizen who wants to vote be able to
vote, in your opinion? Yes or no?
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. Absolutely. That is part of what
our organization fights for every day.
Chairman Steil. Do you consider voters being turned away
from their polling location by election officials on election
day a form of voter suppression? Yes or no?
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. Yes.
Chairman Steil. You are unsure if citizens were turned away
and unable to vote. I think we will be able to show that later.
You said you do not know that. If that is the case, you do view
that as a form of voter suppression?
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. Yes.
Chairman Steil. I have no further questions.
I will now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle, for
the purpose of asking questions to the witnesses for 5 minutes.
Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Let me start. Mr. Bognet, you indicated that the county is
not answering questions. Are you aware that the Luzerne County
solicitor's office advised the Election Board to decline the
invitation to testify here due to the ongoing investigation,
that they are acting under advice given to them by the Luzerne
County solicitor's office?
Mr. Bognet. I read that in the newspaper, yes.
Mr. Morelle. You did? So you are aware of that.
Would not it, in your view, given that information, would
not it be prudent for them not to testify? Do you think they
should violate----
Mr. Bognet. I cannot opine on the prudency, but I think the
citizens deserve answers.
Mr. Morelle. Well, they absolutely deserve answers. This is
catastrophic, in my view. This is a complete breakdown of
whatever happened. I do not know what happened. Sadly, I have
not learned anything about what happened.
You just said a few minutes ago that there was a cover-up,
and I am suggesting that the county solicitor's office advised
the Election Board not to testify because of the ongoing
investigation. I am trying to reconcile those two different
things.
Mr. Bognet. CYA. They are CYA. The lawyers are trying to
cover their butt.
Mr. Morelle. You think the Luzerne County lawyers are
trying to cover their rear end by suggesting people cooperate
with the district attorney's investigation rather than
testifying in Washington?
Mr. Bognet. By not ever answering a question from a voter.
Four-and-a-half months, no answers. Zero.
Mr. Morelle. Do you have personal knowledge to the extent
of which county officials have cooperated or not with the
district attorney's investigation?
Mr. Bognet. I have no way of knowing that.
Mr. Morelle. Okay.
Can I ask you, did you file an election contest with the
House?
Mr. Bognet. No.
Mr. Morelle. Despite the fact you had these concerns about
a potential cover-up?
Mr. Bognet. Yes.
Mr. Morelle. Can you tell me why?
Mr. Bognet. We looked at all the evidence, and as we
learned about what a House Administration contest is, we did
not--we do not have the answers that we need. That is why we
are so happy you guys are looking into it.
Our understanding was a full contest would deprive the
citizens of the Eighth District of Pennsylvania of
representation for months or even years while it was worked
out. I did not want to deprive the citizens of the Eighth
District of representation. All I want is answers to what
occurred and how it happened.
Mr. Morelle. Do you, Mr. Bognet, do you believe Joe Biden
won the 2020 Presidential election?
Mr. Bognet. In 2020, Mr. Biden received more votes in the
electoral college, which is how we adjudicate how Presidents
are elected. By that standard, he is the President. Although I
have profound disagreement with the way the election was
handled in 2020 in Pennsylvania, and I have fought for more
election reform.
Mr. Morelle. Well, I was not asking if he won the electoral
college. Do you think he won the popular election vote?
Mr. Bognet. I believe that he won the popular election vote
from the reports I have seen in the media, but I know in
Pennsylvania it was not a really well done election.
Mr. Morelle. Well, let me ask this one last question, and
then I want to shift over.
Who orders the paper for the election? Who is responsible
for that?
Mr. Bognet. That is a great question, and I hope you guys
would ask Ms. McBride and Ms. Williams that when they get their
butt down here.
Mr. Morelle. You do not know who--you are suggesting there
is a cover-up, but you do not know by whom?
Mr. Bognet. We do not know who. They will not answer
questions. They will not tell us who is responsible for it.
They have abdicated their responsibility to tell us who orders
the paper. That is what we want to know.
Mr. Morelle. Okay.
If I could ask, Mr. Gibbons, you testified to the fact
that--or you made some representations about the State, the
State essentially being responsible for the chaos that ensued.
Is that correct?
Mr. Gibbons. I would not put full responsibility with them.
I was in Luzerne for the month of November throughout the
ballot canvas----
Mr. Morelle. Well, let me interrupt you. You said: It is a
failure by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and its State
Department. Then you said later: Pennsylvania has a reputation
for inconsistent election throughout its 67 counties, which can
be largely attributed to a lack of leadership from the
Pennsylvania Department of State. So----
Mr. Gibbons. Yes. There are differences in how counties
handle curing undated ballots. There is inconsistency among the
counties throughout the State.
Mr. Morelle. Okay. Let me----
Mr. Gibbons. It is disappointing not to see the State show
up at the canvas or on election day to provide support to
Luzerne.
Mr. Morelle. Well, let me reclaim my time. I am sorry. I
hate to do this, but I am limited.
The letter from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Department
of State says: ``The administration of elections in
Pennsylvania is primarily the responsibility of county
officials. Each one of the 67 counties is responsible for
ensuring that elections in the county are run effectively. We
have very few exceptions unrelated to the issues here. The
State has limited authority under the election code to dictate
how counties run their elections.''
Are you familiar with that?
Mr. Gibbons. Yes. The county failed.
Mr. Morelle. Are you--yes, I----
Mr. Gibbons. The State was nowhere to be found.
Mr. Morelle. Well, I do not know. Well, the State on that
day--was the State supposed to step in in the midst of all this
chaos?
Are you familiar with the----
Mr. Gibbons. Luzerne needed help on election day.
Mr. Morelle. Are you familiar with the home rule charter
rules in the State of Pennsylvania?
Mr. Gibbons. Not familiar enough to discuss it here.
Mr. Morelle. Okay. I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Loudermilk is recognized.
Mr. Morelle. Excuse me. I am sorry. May I ask unanimous
consent to enter into the record an article dated February 15,
2023, entitled, ``Why election problems continue to plague this
Northeast Pennsylvania county,'' which describes much of the
election-related dysfunction in Luzerne County in recent years.
I also ask unanimous consent to enter an article dated
March 20, 2023, entitled, ``All three Luzerne County officials
invited to testify at election hearing will not go''; a letter
from the Pennsylvania Deputy Secretary of State Jonathan Marks
to Chairman Steil declining the majority's invitation to
testify at this hearing; a copy of the Luzerne County home rule
charter; a screenshot of the Pennsylvania secretary of state's
senior staff page showing the position of director of the
Bureau of Election Security and Technology as vacant.
Chairman Steil. Despite these documents not being provided
to the majority prior to the hearing, without objection, so
ordered.
[The information referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Steil. Mr. Loudermilk is now recognized for 5
minutes for the purpose of questioning our witnesses.
Mr. Loudermilk. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you all for being here. Very important issues.
At one time, this Committee was considered the parking
committee, until 2020, because part of our area of jurisdiction
is Federal elections. That catapulted us really into a high
visibility position. More than that, it is very important that
we deal with these issues. This is highly concerning.
Mr. Gibbons, a simple question. Why is it important that
voters have confidence that their votes will actually be
counted?
Mr. Gibbons. It is important that voters show up and take
part in the process. Without confidence in the election system
to run properly, some of those voters may not show up.
Mr. Loudermilk. I agree with you. I have had several voters
tell me, ``I want to make sure that my vote counts before I go
to the poll.'' Because many voters have to take time off work,
or there are long lines, especially in very popular elections.
We saw this in Georgia during the 2020 election runoff
period because of rumors, whether founded or unfounded, that
there were problems.
With the general election in 2020, we had a runoff election
for the Senate. We had much lower turnout for that runoff, much
lower than we have had in other turnouts in previous elections.
Many of the people said they just believed that their vote
would not count, so it made a significant difference.
To me, that is a form of voter suppression, when you make
people think that their vote is not going to count.
With that, regarding what is going on in Pennsylvania,
would not having ballots available for voters who vote in
person at their precinct on election day be a form of voter
suppression?
Mr. Gibbons. Yes.
Mr. Loudermilk. Okay, thank you.
At this point, I have no other questions, Mr. Chair, and I
will save the rest for the second panel. I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
Ms. Sewell is recognized for 5 minutes for asking
questions.
Ms. Sewell. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and I want to
thank all of our witnesses here today. As the Ranking Member on
the Subcommittee on Federal Elections, and as a person who
represents my hometown of Selma, Alabama, where voters
marched--many, you know, were bludgeoned on a bridge like John
Lewis--for the equal right of all Americans to vote.
This is very personal for me, and look, I think that
anytime a voter, a legitimate voter finds it harder, more
difficult to vote, is not given access to vote, it is a bad
thing. I think every one of us on this Committee believes that.
I also know that we need more resources in order to give to
States and to localities in order to effectively be able to do
their jobs.
I also understand that Luzerne had many problems, some
structural, and I think that, Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich, you
actually talked about that a little bit. Can you explain just
some of the structural problems that have historically plagued
Luzerne County?
Then also talk to me about whether or not there is adequate
funding really to allow not just the elected officials to do
their job, but also to make sure that we have proper oversight
to make sure that people are doing the right thing?
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. As I said in my oral as well as
written testimony, we have had an extremely high turnover----
Ms. Sewell. Turnover.
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich.--In our Bureau of Elections. As was
pointed out, we do have a home rule charter that is very
different than any other county in Pennsylvania. I will say
that we have been talking about the director of elections being
Beth Gilbert. I would like to point out that she was acting
director of elections because she was hired, as in my
testimony, my written testimony, was hired the summer before as
the deputy director. She is not the director of elections right
now. They hired a director of elections.
Ms. Sewell. Why do you think that there was such high
turnover in this particular position?
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. I think that there is not enough
funding to pay people properly. I think that is one. This is a
lot of work. If you are not administering one election, you are
getting ready for the next election.
I think that there is a lot of negativity to this. We see
this on council meetings as well, from citizens from both sides
of the aisle, like, there is anger. Things happen all the time
with that.
I would say that this negative environment, toxic
environment in some cases, is one that attributes to that, of
also just not paying and finding proper officials who are ready
to go.
Ms. Sewell. Good staff, exactly.
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. Or they want to be mentored, and
they are going into a position to be mentored, but then we end
up with high turnover.
Ms. Sewell. Commissioner Palmer, as a commissioner on the
Election Assistance Commission, do you feel that you have
adequate funding in order to provide grant opportunities to
States and localities so that they can adequately fund, mentor,
train appropriate staff to conduct elections across this
Nation?
Mr. Palmer. I think that most of the funding takes place at
the local level, so it is a reflection of what their budgets
are. I think there is a role for the State and Federal
Government to provide additional funding or supportive funding
to help counties, particularly those that have problems with
resources.
Ms. Sewell. What do you think about Federal oversight, is
Federal oversight necessary when we think about election
integrity and election administration?
Mr. Palmer. Well, I think there is a limited role for the
Federal Government. I would not even call it oversight. I mean,
I served at the State level, and, you know, there is a limited
amount of uniformity and oversight that the State provides for
so many counties that are on the ground administering
elections. In the end, the counties themselves are on the
ground. They are the ones, they are administering the election.
Ms. Sewell. They are, but at the end of the day, if States
and localities go amuck or are not sufficient in their
administration of their elections, like Luzerne--I think all of
us know this--Federal oversight, being able to make sure that
there is someone, you know, making sure that there is
uniformity, there are more resources and the like.
Right now with the Shelby v. Holder decision, there really
is not any Federal oversight of elections at all, and we know
that Federal elections are in the purview of the Constitution,
Congress. Look, I just wanted to also admit for the record this
ACLU statement with respect to the ACLU of Pennsylvania in
terms of not having sufficient funding.
[The ACLU statement referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Steil. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Sewell. Last, I just want to say that I think it is
really important that we look at the President's budget. I know
that he suggested $5 billion for the Election Assistance
Commission to be able to provide grants for administration of
elections.
I think that we all owe it to make sure that we have--we
can do everything we possibly can to make sure that local
governments have the sufficient funding they need in order to
do their job. Thank you.
Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.
Mr. Griffith is now recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Chairman.
Mr. Palmer, welcome. So let me ask you about something
point blank. You were serving Governor McDonnell in an election
capacity. If this had happened in any of the cities or counties
in the Commonwealth of Virginia, recognizing that the cities in
Virginia have charters that are unique and individual to
themselves, would he not have had you and your colleagues from
the Department of Elections on the carpet to find out what the
heck was going on? Give us a full report on that.
Mr. Palmer. Well, unfortunately, these things do occur
occasionally, and in the Commonwealth of Virginia, we have a
State Board of Elections, and we had an investigation of the
similar type of deficiencies at the polling place on an
election day or during the early voting process.
Usually----
Mr. Griffith. It would have been taken care of.
Mr. Palmer [continuing]. there would have been an
investigation, and people would have been called down to the
carpet to explain what happened and how can we fix this.
Mr. Griffith. Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich, I hope I got close.
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. Close, yes.
Mr. Griffith. You said in your testimony that you caution
us that the district attorney's investigation is ongoing, and
therefore, we do not have a full and complete accounting of
what occurred on Election Day.
Now, I do not know what the charter says, but I doubt the
charter gives the district attorney the ability to look into
negligence or malfeasance in office, but only to criminal
matters. Am I somehow wrong on that? Is the Commonwealth
different, that their prosecutor investigates negligent cases?
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. I do not know that information.
Mr. Griffith. Okay. I appreciate that. Did not expect you
did. I caution that we put too much reliance on the district
attorney because he is only looking at crimes. I have not heard
anybody allege that a crime occurred here. What I have heard
alleged is there was malfeasance in office, negligence, and
incompetency.
Mr. Bognet, is that my understanding of what you are
concerned about and why you want answers?
Mr. Bognet. Well, that is a major portion. I assume that if
the D.A. is investigating he at least has a good faith reason
to look at criminal activity. I do not know if criminal
activity occurred. I do know gross incompetence occurred.
Mr. Griffith. Let me ask you this, though, it is a Federal
election, does he have jurisdiction?
Mr. Bognet. I do not know the answer to that.
Mr. Griffith. I do not know the answer to that either.
Interesting question. It is run by the State, but it is a
Federal election.
Alright. We got a couple of witnesses who are not here.
What were their names again, the people who refused to come in
and testify that you want answers from?
Mr. Bognet. Ms. McBride, the head of the Election Bureau,
and Ms. Williams, the head of the Election Commission.
Mr. Griffith. Do you think this Committee should subpoena
them to testify?
Mr. Bognet. A hundred percent.
Mr. Griffith. Mr. Gibbons, do you think they should be
subpoenaed to testify?
Mr. Gibbons. I am uncertain.
Mr. Griffith. You are uncertain. Is that because you are
worried that there might have been some criminal activity, and
they might take the Fifth instead of coming to testify?
Mr. Gibbons. I am not sure. The D.A.'s investigation did
complicate the matter. We were there just trying to get facts
and figure out what happened, and it became even more difficult
when it was referred to the district attorney.
Mr. Griffith. Yes, but that would not be that indicative,
if there was? I mean, if they think there is some kind of
criminal activity, I mean, they are not here today, they
clearly are trying to hide something.
Do they think there is some kind of criminal activity? Is
that why it was referred to the district attorney? I mean, I do
not know. I am just trying to get answers because I believe
that there was clear incompetence and malfeasance. I am just
trying to get the answers. Why would not they want to come
forward, and they still have their Fifth Amendment rights, I am
not taking that away from anybody, but is that why everybody
has clammed up?
Mr. Gibbons. I would leave that decision to the Committee.
Mr. Griffith. You are an attorney. You are an attorney,
correct?
Mr. Gibbons. Correct.
Mr. Griffith. Isn't it usual in a case where there is no
liability--these people are not going to be sued for money
themselves. They might lose their job, but they are not going
to be sued for money themselves. Would not a normal person
immediately assume that maybe they think they committed some
kind of criminal offense?
Mr. Gibbons. If it would help get to the bottom of this, it
could be a good idea.
Mr. Griffith. To subpoena them?
Mr. Gibbons. Yes.
Mr. Griffith. I appreciate that.
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich, do you think we ought to get these
answers? I mean, I think you do, but tell me on the record, do
you think we ought to get these answers and subpoena these
witnesses in here?
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. I do think that we should get these
answers, but I will say in the articles that are referenced in
my written testimony, Denise Williams, the Elections Board
director, is, first of all, a voluntary position, but second,
was wanting to come until the county solicitor told them not to
attend.
I do know that just from the written newspaper record, as
well as that the same thing happened because the chair of the
county council, Kendra Radle, was also invited.
Mr. Griffith. Mr. Chairman, I think we need to look into
this aspect and subpoena these witnesses. I think we ought to
subpoena the county solicitor to find out why he is interfering
in the investigation of a Federal election by the Federal body
responsible for making sure there is integrity in the election.
I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
Mrs. Torres is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Torres. Thank you.
Mr. Bognet, I could totally understand your frustration. It
is unacceptable to have--to run out of, you know, basic
supplies.
My question really is to Commissioner Palmer. You mentioned
in your testimony that the EAC is working to launch a field
services program so that you can closely work together in order
to improve the quality of monitoring.
In the case of Mr. Bognet, it was not just monitoring the
day of. Obviously, you know, we have to look ahead long before
an election. We have seen across the country where we have
State, you know, legislative bodies that are prohibiting in
ordering the closure of certain polling locations that target
minorities and communities.
Twelve-hour, you know, wait to cast your vote, I would say
that that is also a major suppression of the vote.
In the case of Mr. Bognet, I am not sure if Democrats were
told, you can cut to the front of the line, and, Republicans,
you have to wait until we run out of paper. That would be, you
know, a gross criminal matter, I would think.
The issue of the long lines is just as important as the
issue of running out of paper. The issue of having to vote on a
provisional ballot is also an important issue.
I do not--you know, as a voter, as a--in my community I
never want to vote through a provisional ballot because I have
a voting record that I want to maintain. I have never missed an
election since I became a U.S. citizen here.
Funding is an issue. How can we help you improve conditions
so that we are monitoring not just Republican red areas, but we
are monitoring because we care about all voters?
Mr. Palmer. Well, I think that, you know--and we appreciate
the funding at the EAC, and what we try to do is take an
assistance role for the States and localities. What that means
is, how do we avoid another situation in Luzerne, is you need
to be prepared, you need to have checklists, you need to have
the resources available.
Mrs. Torres. I mean, they have been changing clerks and
staff like we change our clothes every day. So how can you
improve and----
Mr. Palmer. Right.
Mrs. Torres [continuing]. help them with technical
assistance if they have zero experience?
Mr. Palmer. Well, when it comes to that, you know,
professional training of election administrators to improve the
recruitment and the retention of those. You know, there is sort
of a negativity environment right now, where we are trying to
retain election administrators.
Many are retiring or moving on to other professions, some
because of the negativity of the issue, some because of the
scrutiny. A lot of election administrators understand it comes
with the business.
I mean, if you are going to be in the business of democracy
and providing, facilitating the right to vote, you know, it is
a valuable experience to serve as that. There is also the
scrutiny that if you fail and there are deficiencies, there are
consequences and so----
Mrs. Torres. I mean, scrutiny is good, and if you make a
mistake, usually you try to avoid making those mistakes by
being informed and asking a lot of questions ahead and knowing
who to call. In your opinion, I mean, what can we do? I am
asking you because----
Mr. Palmer. Yes, I think we need to----
Mrs. Torres [continuing]. this is a huge problem.
Mr. Palmer. I think we need to increase the professionalism
and training of election administrators.
Mrs. Torres. Is that something the Federal Government can
do to assist?
Mr. Palmer. We can do that. It serves that purpose of
assisting the States and localities in the administration of
their elections and the improvement of Federal elections, yes.
Mrs. Torres. Ms. Mirilovich, can you comment on that?
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. Yes. Our--I have been saying from
the beginning, as has our organization, that we need more
funding in our elections so that we can avoid this chronic
turnover and that we can better train election workers, whether
they are poll workers, whether they are the workers in the
actual office of the Bureau of Elections.
Mrs. Torres. Is there a role for Federal oversight when it
comes to denying people in poor communities, you know, the
right to have a polling location near their community?
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. I think that every level of
government needs to take part in helping with this funding.
Mrs. Torres. Okay. What is your opinion of denying people a
restroom break or the ability to receive a donation of a
sandwich or water when you are standing in line for long, long
hours? I mean, you know, as a working mom, I do not know that I
ever had that kind of money to pay for a babysitter to stand
for 12 hours.
Ms. Hoffman-Mirilovich. As a nonprofit organization, we
fully support being able to do that because you want to give
everyone the opportunity to vote.
Mrs. Torres. Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.
Dr. Murphy is recognized for 5 minutes.
Dr. Murphy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
You know, I want to step back. I think everybody on the
Committee wants good elections for our entire country. I mean,
I do not want to make this a Republican or Democratic issue.
What happened in this county was abysmal, flat-out abysmal.
You know, I just have a couple comments. I do not really
think this is a Republican-Democrat issue. It brought up an
issue that needs to be addressed. Let me just ask a few
questions because it is for my own edification.
Mr. Bognet, is there any difference on Election Day--is
early voting--how long is early voting in that county?
Mr. Bognet. I believe it is a week before the election.
Dr. Murphy. Alright. Is it mail-in or in-person voting?
Mr. Bognet. You can do either, but mail-in is much more
common.
Dr. Murphy. Alright. You can physically go and vote. Okay.
Do you know if there is any historic, any partisan split on
voting day between----
Mr. Bognet. Yes.
Dr. Murphy [continuing]. Republicans and Democrats?
Mr. Bognet. There is a profound split. In Pennsylvania,
since we brought in no-excuse mail-in in 2019, Democrats
typically win vast majority, 70, 80 percent of the mail-in
vote. Republicans typically win Election Day vote.
In Luzerne County, I won 62 percent of the Election Day
vote overall. Our campaign estimates that in the places where
there were paper shortages which tended to be rural, I won 68
percent of the vote there.
There is definitely an equal protection problem, that if,
you know, something like this happens on Election Day, it tends
to disproportionately hurt Republicans in the same way, if
something happened in the mail-ins, it would tend to
disproportionately hurt Democrats.
Dr. Murphy. Of this county, what proportion was this county
in your district of population-wise?
Mr. Bognet. About 38 percent.
Dr. Murphy. Okay so a third of it. It was significant.
Mr. Bognet. It is the biggest county.
Dr. Murphy. I can understand, I would say that if I am a
Democrat or Republican, I can understand concern because your
basically biggest population base had their voting program
absolutely screwed up.
Does anybody have any idea who instructed the chairman of
the Election Board--Bureau--to seek assistance from the
district attorney?
Mr. Bognet. I can speak--I can speak to that. The Election
Bureau brought up, at their post-election thing, that upon
advice of counsel, Luzerne County solicitor, we are going to
send this over to the district attorney. Those are questions
that should be asked to those folks, but, you know, many voters
have said to me, it seems like they are looking for a way to
not answer questions publicly. They do not want to take
responsibility for this----
Dr. Murphy. You mean the Election Board?
Mr. Bognet. The Election Board and the Election Bureau, the
employees that were doing the election, they have never
answered a single question in public hearing from any voter on
how this happened. We still do not know, as the Ranking Member
said, who was responsible for ordering the paper.
Dr. Murphy. You know, I will just submit this, and I would
say this, again, if it is Republican or Democrat, the absence
of answering a question for it somewhat implies complicity. I
am not saying it is, but it implies complicity, and it implies
knowledge of some perhaps wrongdoing.
They are not taking the Fifth, but they are shifting the
blame. That is just unfortunate.
You know, again, we want every person legally in this
country to vote and have that vote counted. Period. Then let
the cards fall where they may.
I am kind of--I am just very disappointed. I am just
imagining if this had happened in my district, I would have
been, as we say in eastern North Carolina, bless my heart, but
I would have been very, very irritated.
I guess I still do not understand why this moved to a D.A.
unless they were referring a criminal matter, but it seems to
be more that it would be just that we do not want to answer the
questions. We want to get it boggled down for some type of
legal dispute.
Mr. Bognet. Well, in the press reports on why they would
not come to this hearing, they said, the DA is investigating,
but also we have another election coming up in 8 weeks. In May,
we have our primary, and we do not want it to interfere with
that.
There is always another election coming.
Dr. Murphy. Absolutely.
Mr. Bognet. These same people that bungled this election
are going to be doing our election in May. How does that sit
with a resident of Luzerne County who is wondering will their
vote count in May?
Dr. Murphy. It is three Democrats, two Republicans on the
Election Board----
Mr. Bognet. That is correct.
Dr. Murphy [continuing]. as I understand it. How are they
comprise--I mean, how are they voted upon?
Mr. Bognet. I believe they are appointed by council, and
then two Republicans, two Dems, and then they pick the third
one, who is the chairman, Ms. Williams, who is a Democrat.
Also Ms. McBride, the head of the Election Board is an
elected Democrat member of the Wilkes-Barre City Council. I
agree with the Ranking Member that there is more Republicans on
the council, but the people who actually administer the
election, that is Democrat-controlled.
Dr. Murphy. Yes. Again, I am taking Republican-Democrat out
of this. I really am. If a Republican county was doing this, I
would be just as ticked off because that would be embarrassing
to me. I just think we have a lot of work to do.
I think the State of Pennsylvania needs to kick in before
the Federal Government needs to kick in. The Federal Government
does not need to be everything for everybody for every citizen
in this country. That is why we have cities, counties, and
States.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
Mr. Carey is now recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Carey. Thanks, Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous
consent to enter into the record a statement from a Mark
Benjes, Luzerne County resident.
Chairman Steil. Without objection, so ordered.
[The Mark Benjes statement referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Carey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
His statement is very short but pretty telling, and I will
quickly read it:
I entered the polling place at approximately 9 a.m. on
Election Day. I was not allowed to run my ballot through the
scanner tabulator because the paper was too thick. End of
statement.
I am going to go into some questioning.
Mr. Gibbons, were you on the ground in Luzerne County on
Election Day?
Mr. Gibbons. On Election Day, I was in Harrisburg,
Pennsylvania, at our Election Day headquarters.
Mr. Carey. Were you aware of Luzerne County having any
election administration issues prior to the 2022 election?
Mr. Gibbons. Yes. For the 2022 election, about a week
before, they had mailed out 937 duplicate ballots, which we
were in touch with the county on figuring out how they were
going to resolve that issue.
Mr. Carey. Did you attend any of the Luzerne County Board
of Election meetings on 11/14, 11/28, or 11/30?
Mr. Gibbons. Yes. I traveled to Luzerne on Thursday
following the election and was there up until probably about
the 20th or so, I believe.
Mr. Carey. Generally speaking, you heard the testimony of
the residents that were there. I mean, what was the general
feeling from the residents that you saw?
Mr. Gibbons. There is great frustration from the residents.
It was hard not to share that frustration with them being
there. We were just trying to build facts and figure out how
many ballots might be outstanding that needed to be counted,
and throughout the entire canvass, no one from the county could
really answer how many ballots still needed to be counted.
Mr. Carey. Okay. I mean, did the Board of Election at any
time talk about the steps that they were going to take at any
one of these Committee meetings--any one of these Committee--or
the meetings that they had, did any one of them, any board
members say, These are the steps that we are going to do move
forward so this does not happen again?
Mr. Gibbons. I do not recall anything to the extent of how
they would prevent this from happening in the future.
Mr. Carey. Did they basically just say the investigation
was going to be handed over to the district attorney? Is that
my understanding?
Mr. Gibbons. Yes. They had a public meeting, I believe, on
November 14th, where they heard public comment, and at the end
of that meeting, they voted to refer the matter to the district
attorney.
Mr. Carey. Any idea how many people were actually on the
ballot, or were there any issues that were on the ballot at the
time?
Mr. Gibbons. I do not have that with me right now.
Mr. Carey. Okay. Anybody else know that? I mean, were there
any other ballot issues that were on the ballot at that time?
Mr. Bognet. There were no ballot propositions. There was a
Governor's race, a Senate race, two congressional races, many
State legislative races.
Mr. Carey. Okay, Okay. Okay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
Mr. D'Esposito is now recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. D'Esposito. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Following a career in the NYPD, I did spend some time in
the Board of Elections taking care of physical and cyber and
polling-place security. The Board of Elections, or the
Elections Commission in general, I mean, they spent the year,
in essence, preparing for the next election.
Obviously, there are many things that they do for the
community so that people have the right to vote, registrations,
things of that nature.
In essence, they spend the year preparing for early voting
and they prepare for Election Day.
To any of your knowledge, was there ever any conversations
amongst the election officials that there could possibly be a
ballot shortage?
Mr. Bognet. No, sir. Most of the conversation was about the
mail-in ballots. We had had problems with the mail-in ballots
in 2020, getting them counted. They purchased $140,000 machine.
Most of the attention seemed to be on getting the mail-in
ballots right because they are a relatively new thing.
Mr. D'Esposito. it was sort of look here and forget the man
behind the curtain type of thing. Okay.
I mean, what I do not understand is, during all the
conversation--and you may not have the answers either because
it seems like they are not answering the questions that are
needed, but is there now any contingency plan? Is there any
preparation?
I know these questions have been asked, but is there
feeling from anyone that they are preparing to improve this in
the future, or is this more of just shrug your shoulder and
move on?
Mr. Bognet. We do not know because when we are asked, they
say, We cannot talk about it because it is under investigation
by the DA.
Then, you know, what I remember from the Board of Election
hearing is, there was public comment, which was great. Then
when the public would turn to the Election Bureau head and say
what happened? Who was supposed to order the paper? We cannot
talk about that, this is only here for public comment, we
cannot answer any questions.
Mr. D'Esposito. I think anyone that is familiar with the
election process and day of voting knows the people and the
individuals that work those polling places play a critical
role, and, you know, they could make the difference between
chaos and organization.
Do we feel that in this specific situation, the poll
watchers and those that were working the elections were
prepared and had the resources that they needed to do the job
effectively?
Mr. Bognet. Unequivocally no and it would be great if you
hold another hearing or if you come up and hold a field hearing
to ask the judge of elections. They could not get a hold of the
elections office in the main. They reported calling and getting
sent to voicemail.
These poor people that are volunteering to run the election
were not getting any answers. They did their best. Some of them
made photocopies, some of them said, write on a piece of paper,
but there were no procedures how do we handle this.
Mr. D'Esposito. Right. They did their best to adapt and
overcome but did not really have guidance. Okay.
Obviously we need more poll worker training in the future
for--you know, I would assume that is across the Nation and not
just in this specific. Well, thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
For purposes of clarification to our colleagues, I invited
both Members from the House of Representatives who represents
portions of Luzerne County. Mr. Meuser was able to join us
today, and so Mr. Meuser is waived onto the Committee and is
recognized for the purpose of asking questions.
Mr. Morelle. May I just before--I just want to welcome him
to our side of the aisle. We hope you are comfortable and might
even hope to stay on this side. Welcome, sir.
Chairman Steil. The chair will note that there are no more
seats on our side of the aisle, so Mr. Meuser is recognized for
5 minutes. Thank you for being here, Mr. Meuser.
Mr. Meuser. Well, I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman, and I
appreciate my colleagues welcoming very, very much, thanks,
thank you.
As has been noted, November 8, 2022, people showed up in
Luzerne County to vote and were met by election officials
telling them the polling location had run out of ballots. This
was not at one polling location. It was at 48 out of 143, over
one-third. One out of every three polling stations had this
significant problem.
The purpose of this hearing is, to the best of our ability,
find out what went wrong, what steps have been taken or still
need to be taken to ensure this does not happen again.
Finally, what can be done to instill trust once again in
Pennsylvania voters and restore the faith in this election
process. This is why we are here today.
We are also here because, to the best of my knowledge, and
it seems the witnesses', we received no account of how this
occurred from those responsible, nor have we received any plan
for what is being done to correct and provide some assurances
to the general public that this will not happen again.
We have a primary election in Pennsylvania coming up on May
16th, in less than 60 days from now, and we have no answers or
no further confidence being built by those who have created
these problems.
Now, if this had been done, if responsibility had been
taken and a plan for how this would not occur again were
presented, we very likely would not be here today.
Here is what we know so far that is factual. I personally
received calls as early as 7:30 a.m. on November 8th.
Throughout the rest--stating that a polling location had run
out of ballots. Throughout the rest of the morning, my phone
blew up.
As you can see by the poster behind me, of the magnitude of
the disorganization that was taking place of all of the voting
locations that ran out of ballots. People were doing everything
they possibly could to get some sort of paper into people's
hands so they could do provisionals or just vote in any way
possible.
This was at noon.
We also know that there had been advisories sent earlier,
in weeks prior, of the potential supply chain issues
specifically relating to ballot paper. Clearly in Luzerne
County, these issuances and advisories were completely and
utterly ignored.
We know that there was mass confusion at polling stations,
at polling locations, despite election officials' best efforts
to remedy the situation on the spot.
We have also heard reports of security issues, that amid
the chaos and confusion, there were ballot--makeshift ballots
cast. I have even heard from someone that I trust very much
that a stack of makeshift ballots were placed on and left
unattended on a chair to be counted later. I suppose to be
counted later.
This is what went on on Election Day in Luzerne County,
November 8.
To start off, Mr. Palmer, Pennsylvania has a statute on the
books, title 25, section 2967, that states the county board of
each county shall provide for each election district a supply
of official election ballots--and this goes on to spell out in
subsection 8--any general election in an amount equal to at
least 100 percent of the total number of registered electors--
makes sense--less the number of registered electives and the
election issue have requested an absentee or mail-in ballot.
I ask unanimous consent to enter this statute into the
record, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Steil. Without objection.
[The statute referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Meuser. Thank you.
Mr. Palmer, do you think Luzerne County fulfilled its
obligation under the law?
Mr. Palmer. Well, again, I am not sure what the exact legal
requirements are, but they should have prepared and ordered
more ballots for Election Day ballot stock to prepare for that,
or they should have had backup plans with ballot on demand or
some other option for a plan B if they were to run out of
ballot stock. Yes.
Mr. Meuser. Okay. A paper shortage?
Mr. Palmer. Yes.
Mr. Meuser. How could something like this have happened?
Mr. Palmer. The election administrator either did not order
or ordered not enough ballot stock. They did not anticipate the
turnout that would be on Election Day, and----
Mr. Meuser. Turnout? 7:30 a.m.?
Mr. Palmer. Well, it could be, you know, actually, I was
listening to some of the testimony that was from a witness
here. It could have been the lack of ballot stock, but also,
inappropriate ballot stock. If they ordered ballot stock that--
--
Mr. Meuser. Thank you. I got to reclaim my time. My
apologies.
Mr. Bognet, have you heard or any publisher or outreach
made to the citizens to increase confidence or explain to the
citizens what took place, why it took place, and what is being
done to correct it?
Mr. Bognet. There has been absolutely no communication from
our officials in Luzerne County to explain what happened, to
tell us the procedures they are going to do to make sure it
does not happen again, to apologize for the citizens who were
disenfranchised, and to get people to believe in our elections
again. We have not heard one word.
Mr. Meuser. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
Ms. Lee is now recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
As the former secretary of state of Florida, I know well
how important preparation and planning are to the
administration of elections. In order for Americans to have
confidence in their elections, voters need to have equal access
to voting.
This includes polling stations having the necessary
equipment and resources to allow all voters' voices to be
heard. Luzerne County, as we have heard today, is an example of
a failure to provide such access.
Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the
record a brief statement from Bernadette Hivish, a Luzerne
County voter who had difficulty voting last November.
Mr. Carey [Presiding.] Without objection.
[The Bernadette Hivish statement referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am going to read an excerpt from this statement. Quote, I
arrived at the polling location at 6:45 p.m. I was the first
person from the Mayflower section of Wilkes-Barre to sign in.
After doing this, the poll workers were then told not to sign
anyone in because the machines were not working correctly.
It was going on for approximately 7:40 a.m., and I had to
get back to work when I asked for a provisional ballot. I was
not happy doing it this way, but because I was already signed
in, I could not leave and come back.
I went back to the polling location around 7:30 to see if I
could have, A, my provisional ballot pulled and vote by
machine. I knew it was a long shot but was not confident my
vote would be counted.
Commissioner Palmer, I would like to address my questions
to you, but first, is not it true that the EAC issued warnings
to local election officials that there might be paper shortages
in 2022?
Mr. Palmer. Yes, ma'am. There was a number of months prior
to the election, including back into the primary, that there
were shortages in paper stock.
Ms. Lee. Isn't it also correct that the EAC advised
jurisdictions that they should be taking steps to ensure that
they have the necessary supply of paper to be prepared for the
2022 election?
Mr. Palmer. In conjunction with our partners, we issued
those warnings that they needed to prepare as early as
possible. In fact, there were deadlines, that, look, if you are
ordering past this day, you are not ensured to have adequate
paper.
Ms. Lee. For those jurisdictions that did follow the
warnings and the advice that was issued by the EAC about
ensuring that that supply was in place sufficiently in advance
of the 2022 election, they were successful, were they not?
Mr. Palmer. No, they were, yes.
Ms. Lee. Commissioner Palmer, are you familiar with voting
systems testing and certification?
Mr. Palmer. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Lee. Are you also familiar with standards and best
practices that are used to maintain election integrity and
security during the voting process?
Mr. Palmer. Yes. Yes, I am.
Ms. Lee. In your opinion, is it appropriate for an election
administrator at a precinct to be using standard paper for the
purpose of tabulating ballots?
Mr. Palmer. No. That is a security feature. That ensures
that every ballot is being cast on ballot stock, a Marksense
ballot and not just a piece of paper. It is a security feature.
Once you dismiss that, you are opening it up to other issues,
and that is why it is not a best practice.
Ms. Lee. Is the EAC willing--or has the EAC provided
guidance to State and local election officials about the types
of stock, or the types of stock that can be used with certain
voting systems?
Mr. Palmer. Yes. When a voting system comes into an
accredited lab for testing, the manufacturer provides that data
on what the length, the thickness of the different types of
ballots or paper stock that would be used. It is tested to
those. It is not tested to paper or other configurations.
Once it is--once it is certified to that, the manufacturer
and the user has an understanding of what ballot stock could be
used with that voting equipment.
Again, it is a very regimented process. Once you are
outside that using regular pieces of paper, that is really--you
know, you are breaking down one of the security features of the
process.
Ms. Lee. Is that certification process an important part of
ensuring the security of elections?
Mr. Palmer. I think so, because what it shows is that we
are testing these systems for different manufacturers over and
over with upgrades, and it shows that the system will work
under--under different circumstances.
We will certify that at the Federal level, and in fact,
many States also have a certification process to ensure that
the ballots that are used in your county or our State will work
on those voting machines.
Ms. Lee. Would you share with us how the EAC can be
involved with helping States identify and implement best
practices when it comes to this testing and certification?
Mr. Palmer. Well, we have a clearinghouse where we offer
best practices to States on issues such as this. We have
subject matter experts in elections and in testing and
certifications. These are technical experts. We hope to, you
know, provide assistance to the States and localities when they
need it on these types of issues.
Ms. Lee. Thank you, Commissioner Palmer.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Carey. Thank you. Before we thank the witnesses, before
we move on to our second panel of witnesses today, we are going
to play recorded testimony from a number of additional
individuals.
For Members, this recorded testimony will be played on the
monitor that are in the room, and for the public, it will be
carried on live stream.
The first person is Mr. Eugene Dougherty. He is a resident
of Luzerne County with a medical condition that limits his
mobility. He and his wife's polls were closed due to paper
problems, but they have 2 extra hours to vote due to a court-
ordered extension.
When he and his wife showed up, the precinct was still
closed. This resulted in him and his wife being denied the
right to vote. Let us watch.
Let us watch.
[Video shown.]
[The Eugene Dougherty transcript referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Carey. The next video is Kim Buerger, who is a resident
of Luzerne County and tells her story of voting on a copy of
provisional ballot because her precinct ran out of ballot
paper.
While more ballots were promised to arrive at the precinct
and Kim waited for standard ballots to arrive, they never
showed up.
Finally, when she later checked to see if her vote counted,
she found out that despite all that she had been through, it
did not. Let us play the clip.
[Video shown.]
[The Kim Buerger transcript referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T4467.125
Mr. Carey. Bill Dwyer was an election constable in
Larksville where----
Mr. Morelle. May I make--Mr. Chairman, may I make a
parliamentary inquiry? I noticed it says ``testimony.'' Are
these videos, are the people under oath while they are--this
says testimony.
Mr. Carey. To the ranker, they are not under oath and they
are not required to be.
Mr. Morelle. They are not testifying----
Mr. Carey. Just like written testimony is not sworn in.
Mr. Morelle. Not sworn testimony. I might just as part of
my inquiry, first of all, the stories are powerful. I would
love to have had the opportunity to ask them about their
experience since clearly what happened in Luzerne County is
catastrophic.
We could have done these, people could have been remote. We
could have then engaged in a back-and-forth and allowed them to
answer our questions about their experience. That was
apparently decided against.
Rather than giving the Members of Congress a chance to ask
questions about their experience, they have been submitted--
they are submitting now not as witnesses, and not under oath,
but simply videos. That is how we will proceed?
Mr. Carey. Does the gentleman have a parliamentary inquiry?
Mr. Morelle. That is my inquiry. Are we going to do this in
the future where we are going to take videos not under oath as
part of----
Mr. Carey. That is not a parliamentary inquiry.
Mr. Morelle. It is not? It is a question. It is an inquiry.
Is this going to be the Committee's procedure now on a going-
forward basis?
Mr. Carey. Again, it is not a parliamentary inquiry, so I
am going to go ahead and play the video.
Mr. Morelle. It is a procedural inquiry. I just----
Mr. Carey. Let us move on.
Brian Dwyer was an election constable in Larksville, Ward
2. He testified at the Luzerne County Board of Elections
meeting on November 14th. He watched firsthand as voters were
turned away from the polls, and many did not return because of
the ballot paper shortage.
If we could just watch.
[Video shown.]
[The Brian Dwyer transcript referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Carey. Alyssa Fusaro, a member of the Luzerne County
Board of Elections, expresses outrage at a public hearing of
the board in response to Mr. Dwyer's testimony about turning
voters away from the polls.
Let us roll the clip, please.
Mr. Morelle. I just have an inquiry about what we are doing
now.
Mr. Carey. We are just trying to get it to work.
[Video shown.]
[The Alyssa Fusaro transcript referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Carey. Move on to David Stadler, who is a voter from
Hunlock Township. He also testified at the Luzerne County Board
of Election meeting on November 14th. His polling location ran
out of paper at approximately 10 a.m. Here is the clip.
[Video shown.]
[The David Stadler transcript referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Loudermilk [Presiding.] Pursuant to paragraph B of
Committee rule 6, we are now ready to move on to the second
panel. I am sorry.
Pursuant to paragraph B, Committee rule 6, all witnesses
will please stand and raise your right hand.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, you may be seated. Let the
record show the witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
I will now introduce our second witness panel. Our first
witness, Mr. Theodore Fitzgerald, currently works in management
and trainer capacity at ABC Bail Bonds, and invests much of his
time mentoring and helping ex-convicts reestablish themselves
in the community.
Our next witness, Mr. Benjamin Herring, is the vice
president of the Citizens Advisory of Pennsylvania, a nonprofit
that advocates for the constitutional rights, educational
choices, and happiness of northeastern Pennsylvania
communities.
Mr. Herring is a Marine Corps veteran, deploying twice in
support of Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring
Freedom, and began his nonprofit service in 2021 when he
realized the enormous lack of oversight within the public
school system.
Finally, Mr. James Walsh serves as president of the
Citizens Advisory of Pennsylvania and owns a small business,
The Homeboys Seamless Gutters, where he has helped homeowners
with water management issues over 2 years.
We appreciate our witnesses being here today and look
forward to your testimony. As a reminder, we have read your
written statement, and it will appear in full in the hearing
record.
Under Committee rule 9, you are to limit your oral
presentation to a brief summary of your written statement
unless I extend this time period in consultation with Ranking
Member Morelle.
Please remember to press the button on the microphone in
front of you so that it is on and the Members can hear you.
When you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn
green. After 4 minutes, it will turn yellow, and when the red
light comes on, your 5 minutes has expired, and we ask at that
point that you please wrap up and conclude your remarks.
I now recognize Mr. Fitzgerald for 5 minutes.
STATEMENTS OF MR. THEODORE FITZGERALD, CITIZEN; MR. BENJAMIN
HERRING, CITIZEN; AND MR. JAMES WALSH, CITIZEN
STATEMENT OF THEODORE FITZGERALD
Mr. Fitzgerald. I am not as articulate as the rest of the
people before me. I am just a regular Joe worker, and I am here
just because I want to help not just clear up what happened,
but also try to come up with some solutions in the future so I
never see you guys again.
Okay. I am just going to go with what I wrote. I am a
diabetic who lost two toes last year in 2022 and one previous
the year before. On November 4, my home health nurse was
treating an open wound where my right toe had been because of a
recent amputation. She noticed that the toe next to it got
infected and called my podiatrist. She told me to admit myself
into the emergency room as soon as possible.
On the way to the emergency room, I stopped at Luzerne
County Election Bureau to cast an absentee vote. I was supposed
to show up at the polls. I did not know how long I was going to
be in the hospital, and since I believe voting is one of the
most important things an American citizen can do, I wanted to
make sure my voice was heard.
When I got to the Bureau of Elections, I explained what was
going on and asked to submit an emergency ballot. I was given
one and filled it out immediately.
After filling it out, the person put it in a manila
security envelope, sealed it in front of me, and I asked if
there was anything else I needed to do. She answered no, and
then she proceeded to take the ballot to the back, and I left
for the hospital.
I went to the hospital and was admitted. I stayed until
Monday when they amputated my toe and was released the same
day.
On November 8, not feeling confident nor trusting the
Luzerne County Bureau of Elections because of their past
history nor their staffing, I went to my polling place to
confirm my vote was submitted and counted. I also believe that
they do not hire the best person for the job at the bureau, but
they hire their friends and/or people with the same party
affiliations and party agenda. I also believe that I have proof
that this occurs.
After the last recent hiring, I filed the right-to-know for
the applications that apply for the position of deputy director
of elections. I wanted to see if Luzerne County hired the best
applicant for the job.
Luzerne County denied my request, so I appealed to the
State. I won the applications that shows the best person--I
believe it shows the best person was passed over for a
connected elected official.
Back to November 8. When I got to my polling place, I
explained I voted on the 4th and asked if they could check to
see if my vote was counted. They checked, and they said that it
was not, and they could not even find me on the voter list.
Then they called the Bureau of Elections by cell phone to
see what they should do. The Bureau said I was inactive and
could not vote. I said: That is impossible. I voted in the last
election here at this precinct. That actually, you guys
questioned my signature. I normally write a doctor signature,
but this time, I had to write the full signature.
They stayed on the phone and reiterated what I said. I then
overheard the woman from the bureau call up to another asking
about me. She then said over the phone that they had me at two
different addresses and found me. They said they had no record
of me voting on that previous Friday, so to do a provisional.
I questioned that. I said: Isn't that illegal? I am not
supposed to vote or cannot vote twice. They assured me at that
time I would not get in trouble and they would find out if I
voted twice because only one of the votes would count. I filled
out the provisional, and I left for that day.
Basically, I am here just to give that testimony. I think
that is why, excuse my language, it is a shit show at Luzerne
County Bureau. It is because they do not hire, they do not
recruit right, they do not train right, and they have no
management skills. They have people with good intentions, but
they just do not have great leadership.
I also have addressed the council--which is, again, 10 to 1
Republican to Democrat--to see if they could announce and just
apologize to the public. Not an apology of guilt, but just of
empathy.
I also went to the county manager, asked the same. I went
to the department head, asked the same. I also went to the
Bureau of Elections and asked the same.
All we want is an apology. We want the affirmation that
elections moving forward will be held responsible and our vote
counts. I think they should announce that on the newspaper, let
people know that if you were disenfranchised, come back, vote.
We want everybody's vote to be heard.
I know that Mr. Morelle said that, but it is a 10-1
council. In the Bureau of Elections, it is the opposite. There
is only one Republican, and everybody at the Bureau of
Elections is all Democrat.
The people that made the mistake and had the power was not
the council. They have no purview. The people at the board are
the responsible people.
Also, the board is a 3-2 Democrat and they are more
concerned, in all the meetings. Before that, they were more
interested in drop boxes than making sure there were policies,
procedures, and inventory. I have an inventory on my things.
God, you walk into a closet. If you see there is no paper,
order the damn paper. I mean, a moron could do that.
Basically I think there is just horrible management,
horrible training, horrible recruitment. if you want to change
the elections in Luzerne County, you need to fix that.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Fitzgerald follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF THEODORE FITZGERALD
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, Mr. Fitzgerald.
I now recognize Mr. Herring for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF BENJAMIN HERRING
Mr. Herring. Good morning, Chairman Loudermilk now, Ranking
Member Morelle, and the remaining Members of the Committee on
House Administration.
My name is Ben Herring, and I am here before this Committee
today to talk about one of the most crucial and fundamental
rights all Americans have, which is the ability to vote.
I was raised by military parents, grew up on military bases
all across the globe, and decided in 2003 to take the sacred
oath myself by joining the United States Marine Corps.
As a Marine Corps veteran, I served in Fallujah, Iraq, in
2004 during Operation Phantom Fury, as well as in the Korengal
Valley of Afghanistan in 2006.
I joined the Marine Corps after 9/11, and my time spent
alongside my brothers and sisters in arms will forever be a
part of my foundation, and it is part of the reason I am here
today.
Why this is germane to my service in some way is, in 2005,
I was in Iraq for the very first Iraqi elections. I got to see
the face and the joy and the hope on Iraqi citizens' faces when
they knew that there was a change coming and they could
actually elect their own officials and actually try and carve
the way for the future of their country versus the previous
dictatorship rule.
To see that, and to correspond that with America, I mean,
we should never be behind 2005 Iraq when it comes to actual
elections and election integrity and ensuring everybody has the
right to vote.
The issues that occurred in Luzerne County for the 2022
midterm elections represent a culture which embodies exactly
what is permeating, in my opinion, throughout our entire
Nation: a complete lack of respect and understanding of what it
really is to be a public servant and the correlation of public
service to transparency and accountability, words that I have
heard here this morning.
In the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, we have a law known as
the Sunshine Act, which like many States was enacted directly
following the Watergate scandal, and it was used so that
citizens could have a look into governmental affairs. When
taxpayer funds are used and when decisions are made using those
taxpayer funds, the public deserves a right to know what is
happening.
Due to the Sunshine Act, and due to just being a citizen
who has a familiarity with it, after this whole situation
transpired--and I went to the Election Board meeting on
November 14 that is also been talked about this morning--I
asked questions directly to the officials that you have heard.
The Board of Elections, the chair of the Board of Elections,
the acting director of Luzerne County elections and the
Election Bureau was also there. The officials that needed to
answer those questions were in that room.
Now, while the Sunshine Act--and I have this in my
testimony--it does not require, the actual law, like, the legal
language, the statute, does not require that you answer
questions. I know this is a totally separate topic. When you go
to a public meeting and you have questions such as what
transpired that you all heard this morning, I believe it should
be prudent that somebody at least give some type of an answer.
Simply saying that they do not have to answer the question or
ignoring the questions from the public is not acceptable.
She did not answer to us during that meeting. I say
``she,'' so I am talking the Election Board. The chair of the
Election Board or any of the officials that you all invited
down here, they have not answered us as citizens. They did not
come down here as witnesses today, as is well-documented.
My question is: Who do they respond to? Who are they
accountable to? Because we are here today to express our
frustration, and you have also heard other frustration. I think
the underlying question is: If they do not answer to us as
citizens, as per our Luzerne County charter, then who do they
answer to? I am really glad that Congress is having some
oversight on this topic because it is very important.
I would like to draw attention quickly to one particular
submission which surrounds what is known as Papergate in
Luzerne County. I requested through my right-to-know process to
receive a copy of all procurements conducted by Luzerne County
that were applicable to supporting the 2022 midterm elections.
The results I received from the county confirmed my
concerns. They did not purchase the paper for the elections.
They have a binding contract with Dominion Voting Systems, as
you have seen also across the Nation, but Luzerne County
officials were responsible for ordering the paper. Nobody in an
elected capacity has testified to that, but I am here today to
tell you that I did find that, and that is the truth.
A voter simply cannot enter their ballot into a tabulator
if there is no paper to print the ballot onto. In what
conceivable world is this allowed to happen?
Well, I have a lot of documentation. I will provide that,
obviously, to this Committee, enter into the record.
I want to point out two quick things. Luzerne County
reported 117,495 ballots cast by voters for the 2022 midterm
elections. On election day--and I have the receipts as part of
my right-to-know request--76,000 sheets of paper were purchased
either by the county or by citizens in order to get the
precincts back up and running. That is 65 percent of the voting
population for the entire county.
I heard earlier today maybe there was a lack of
institutional knowledge. I am sorry, but 65 percent of possible
ballots needing to be ordered on election day is not a lack of
institutional knowledge. Something occurred here. It was either
willful or was a gross mistake. Either way, we have no
transparency and we have no accountability.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Herring follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF BENJAMIN HERRING
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, Mr. Herring, and thank you for
your service to our country.
The chair recognizes Mr. James Walsh for 5 minutes.
Mr. Walsh. Chairman Loudermilk, may I state an objection
prior to starting my statement here to this Committee?
Mr. Loudermilk. You may.
Mr. Walsh. When this hearing started, there were 10 Members
here. We do not even have a quorum now. There are three Members
of this Committee sitting here listening to the citizens'
statements. You do not even have a quorum right now to discuss
this.
Now, I spent money out of my own pocket. I bought a new
suit to be here in front of you. I stayed at a hotel last
night. I spent gas money to come down here, time away from my
business and my family, here to talk about these 30 affidavits
from concerned citizens in Luzerne County. I think the lack of
a quorum here is an absolute disgrace by this Committee.
Mr. Loudermilk. We appreciate you being here. As you may
well realize, we have a number of hearings that are going on
simultaneously, and we have a number of Members from both
parties that serve on multiple Committees.
We, in fact, do have a quorum on this Committee at this
point and we appreciate your concerns. Duly noted. You may
proceed with your statement.
STATEMENT OF JAMES WALSH
Mr. Walsh. Thank you.
Chairman Loudermilk, Ranking Member Morelle, and
distinguished Members of this Committee that is left here,
thank you for having me here today.
My name is James Walsh, and I am grateful to have this
opportunity to share testimony with you from some of the
concerned registered voters of Luzerne County, Pennsylvania.
Within Pennsylvania Constitution article VII, subsection 4,
it states the following: ``All elections by citizens shall be
by ballot or by such other method as prescribed by law,
provided that secrecy in voting is preserved.''
Article VII, Subsection 6 states that: ``All laws
regulating the holding of elections by the citizens, or the
registration of electors, shall be uniform throughout the
State.''
The 2022 general election in Luzerne County was conducted
in violation of Article VII, Subsections 4 and 6 of the
Pennsylvania State Constitution. The violations that took place
were a direct result from the lack of paper in Luzerne County
in order to print ballots at the polling stations, which in
turn resulted in voter suppression county-wide.
I have obtained affidavits from 30 registered voters within
the county representing 7 out of 186 precincts that I would
like to submit today as part of the record. I am not really
sure how that works, but I would like to submit these as part
of the record today.
Mr. Loudermilk. Without objection, it is submitted.
[The affidavits referred to follow:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Walsh. Thank you.
Affidavits are both from election day poll workers and
registered voters.
For myself, the beginning of the chaos throughout Luzerne
County began when I showed up at my polling location in Ross
Township. Our judge of elections explained that she was sent
500 sheets of paper for 1,100-plus voters. She also stated that
the Election Bureau did not fill the printers prior to them
being delivered. The Bureau did not send her electrical cords
or power strips to power up the machines. The Bureau only sent
her one scanner and one red privacy bag, where in years past,
she would receive three to four.
They did send six voting machines; however, one of the
machines had to be rebooted three times before it would
operate. She also stated that they only sent her one paper poll
book, and that in years past, they would have two poll books
separated by last name A through L and M to Z.
The combination of these issues created extensive voting
lines and up to a 35-minute wait for people to vote.
When I left my polling location, I did not know that some
of the same issues were happening county-wide. I turned on our
local radio station, and I started to hear reports from across
the county that polls did not have enough paper for voters to
cast their ballots.
Other poll workers, in the affidavits that I submitted to
you today, reported that when they ran out of paper they tried
to call the Election Bureau and they could not get through.
There are also reports of voters leaving the polling
locations without voting at all and no idea if they came back
to their place once the polling place received paper.
Within the affidavits from the voters, you will find that
voters were using photocopies. Some reports from the Election
Bureau stated that there was a special paper that needed to be
used in the scanners. Regular paper that you might have lying
around your house would not be acceptable to use. This is where
the lack of uniformity ensued.
Voters used photocopied ballots with no way to track if
their ballot was counted. When using photocopied ballots, they
were told to sit at tables to fill them out without any privacy
or secrecy.
Voters were told at different locations to handle their
finished ballots differently by placing them into a box, drop
them in the back of a printer, place them into a metal can or a
container. One polling place told people to print their ballot
and place it in the back of the broken scanner box. At another
location, the ballot box was so full that the poll workers were
unlocking it to shove more ballots in to fit more.
Another affidavit states that they voted on the computer
and printed the ballot, but they were told to put it into a
drop box instead of scanning it. Yet, at another polling place,
voters were told to print their ballots and hand them directly
to a poll worker. Voters reported in the affidavits that they
saw people were leaving the long lines, and they did not know
if they ever came back.
As you can clearly see from these affidavits submitted to
you as record, this election was not secret or uniform. The
delays at the polling locations due to the lack of paper
created long lines, which in turn suppressed the voters.
In closing, I gave you a sample from only 7 out of 186
voting precincts. Our Election Bureau manager, Beth McBride,
reported to the media that the paper shortage took place at a
total of 48 polling precincts throughout the county. While
investigating this, I found out that all 48 precincts that ran
out of paper traditionally vote, at a minimum, two to one
Republican.
Thank you for your time.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Walsh follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF JAMES WALSH
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, Mr. Walsh.
I will begin our questions today, followed by Ranking
Member Morelle. Then we will alternate between parties.
I now recognize myself for the purpose of questioning our
witnesses.
Mr. Walsh, I will start with you. Let me say that, prior to
coming to Congress, I was asked to come and testify as well. I
was before one of the larger Committees in the House. When I
went and sat down with the other panel members, there were more
on the panel than there were in the audience. I know exactly
how you feel.
One thing I learned in that is, as we went along, most of
the Members did come in and were able to ask questions. Your
written testimony is reviewed by Members, and I believe you
will have at least most of the Members on both sides back to
ask questions today.
I will start. Did you ever encounter a problem casting a
ballot at your precinct prior to the November 2022 general
election?
Mr. Walsh. No, sir.
Mr. Loudermilk. None at all?
Mr. Walsh. I did not experience a problem this time. I was
just alerted to the problem because I was there first thing in
the morning.
Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. Well, thank you.
A follow up question is, the bureau, is it responsible for
the paper ballot shortage? If not, who is?
Mr. Walsh. Well, according to--I think Mr. Herring would be
better off to answer that question because he is the one that
filed the right-to-know for the order of the paper.
Mr. Loudermilk. Okay.
Mr. Herring, do you care to answer?
Mr. Herring. Yes, Congressman. It is the Election Bureau.
It is the hired personnel of Luzerne County that were to order
the paper.
Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. It is the Election Bureau that is
responsible?
Mr. Herring. Yes, sir.
Mr. Loudermilk. Alright. Thank you.
I will stay, since I got you already, Mr. Herring.
Are you aware of other voting precincts running out of
paper on election day?
Mr. Herring. Yes, Congressman. As my colleague Mr. Walsh
stated, there are 48 precincts that we--just as regular,
everyday guys, like T.J. said--just looked into to try and help
out because we were getting a lot of people contacting us.
Those 48 Committees, as Mr. Walsh alluded to,
traditionally, at least two to one is more Republican voters
than Democrat voters. In some of those precincts that ran out
of paper, the margin is as high as nine to one Republican and
Democrat.
Mr. Loudermilk. Are these precincts all in the same county?
Mr. Herring. Yes, sir. They are all in the same county.
Mr. Loudermilk. Alright.
Are you satisfied with the bureau's response to the
incident?
Mr. Herring. No, Congressman, not at all. There has been no
response, as has been well-documented today. As I point out to,
again, the Sunshine Act in Pennsylvania does not preclude you
from answering a question when a public brings it to you during
a public meeting.
That is what is disheartening to us as citizens, is we are
answering simple questions during these public meetings, and
they flat out refuse to answer them. There is no law that says
you cannot answer. This was before it got referred to the
district attorney, sir. This is before all that happened.
Mr. Loudermilk. Alright. Well, thank you. I appreciate
that.
At this point, I will yield back and recognize Ranking
Member Morelle for questions.
Mr. Morelle. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
First of all, Mr. Fitzgerald, as one regular Joe to
another----
Mr. Fitzgerald. Yes, sir.
Mr. Morelle [continuing]. I am very sorry for what happened
to you. I think it is completely inexcusable.
Mr. Fitzgerald. It is no big deal. We can move on and make
it better tomorrow.
Mr. Morelle. You said the Election Bureau is responsible
for ordering paper. Is that correct?
Mr. Fitzgerald. I think they are directly responsible, like
in any business, like if you have people that work in a
business and also supervisors.
Mr. Morelle. Yes.
Mr. Fitzgerald. I think everybody is responsible. I think
that----
Mr. Morelle. In terms of the technical thing, I think you
said that the Election Bureau does that.
Mr. Fitzgerald. I think bottom line, yes, sir.
Mr. Morelle. Yes.
Mr. Herring you just testified to the same, that the
Election Bureau is responsible for the ordering of paper?
Mr. Herring. Yes, Congressman. There is a clause in the
Dominion contract that specifically spells out that they will
not provide consumables to the county.
Mr. Morelle. Yes. Are either of you aware that the county
manager has the power to fire, terminate, and manage all
administrative staff, including the director of the Bureau of
Elections?
Mr. Herring. Absolutely. He does. Yes.
Mr. Morelle. It is important to note that the division head
of administrative services who reports to the county manager is
the person who directly oversees the Elections Bureau as well
as the other seven county divisions?
Mr. Herring. Correct.
Mr. Morelle. It is the Elections Bureau reports to the
County Council, and the county manager is the administrator who
runs the Election Bureau?
Mr. Herring. The County Council does appoint the Luzerne
County manager, yes.
Mr. Morelle. It is actually--that Bureau is underneath the
county manager.
Mr. Herring. Correct.
Mr. Morelle. I understand that the county manager resigned
just a couple of days after election?
Mr. Herring. That is correct.
Mr. Morelle. I know citing family obligations. Obviously,
he has come under a great deal of questions about his role in
this, but the Election Bureau, just to be clear, the Election
Bureau works for the county manager?
Mr. Herring. That is a correct statement.
Mr. Morelle. Mr. Fitzgerald, did you ever know if your vote
got recorded, sir?
Mr. Fitzgerald. Yes, I did. I actually found out yesterday.
Mr. Morelle. It did get recorded, sir?
Mr. Fitzgerald. Yes, it did.
Mr. Morelle. Very good. Thank you.
I do want to say, Mr. Walsh--and I certainly agree with the
chair that the Members, I am sure, do not mean disrespect, that
they have many things to do.
I would say also that I would be happy to work with the
chair for the witnesses to be reimbursed under our Committee
rules for your expenses coming to and from Washington. I would
be happy to be supportive of that. I am happy to raise that
with the chair about making sure that, to the greatest degree
possible, we compensate you for that.
Did you also note, Mr. Walsh, that the bureau works for the
county administration through the county manager?
Mr. Walsh. Yes.
Mr. Morelle. You did. Okay and just to, again, reflect on
this, the County Council, which hires the county manager, has
11 members, 10 of whom are Republicans. I just note that as we
are looking to what happened with Papergate.
I also want to just note that one of the concerns I raised
earlier about having witnesses give testimony not under oath
and not being able to be cross-examined, I note.
I would like to have unanimous consent both to enter into
the record an article that is a Luzerne County report of
``Election Board Member Fusaro's actions differ from her
account,'' and a confidential report of investigation by the
Luzerne County Office of Law, with the assistance of Luzerne
County Human Resources, about Ms. Fusaro, whose recorded video
was entered into the record.
At one point, Ms. Fusaro, in the report--I will read from
it--``Witness 2 stated that Alyssa Fusaro went to the front
desk, was on the phone, and heard Alyssa Fusaro say, quote,
`This spic do not know what the F she is doing.'
``Witness 2 said she heard Alyssa Fusaro, quote, `spewing
the F word, and her facial expression was like she was
disgusted. That is when I told Witness 1 to shut the F up, and
then the guy told her to shut the F up.' ''
I would like to submit, with unanimous consent, the
confidential report of investigation by the Luzerne County
Office of Law with the assistance of Luzerne County Human
Resources.
I do note, that is one of the reasons we would want
witnesses to testify in person, so that we can ask questions
and refer to official reports and considerable differences
between testimony given--although not under oath and not
available to be cross-examined--and what they say in that
testimony, how it differs.
I would like to enter those into the record, please.
Mr. Loudermilk. Both without objection.
[The confidential report referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Morelle. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Walsh. Mr. Chairman, I am not sure at the time of that
report--I am not sure, at the time of that report those two
witnesses were under oath. I would caution you about putting
them on the record because there was a certain time that they
were not put under oath, and I do not know if they were ever
put under oath and testified.
Mr. Morelle. Yes, well, I know I am over my time. I am not
suggesting anything about that other than I would have liked,
under oath, to question the witness. That was my point.
Anyway, I yield back, sir.
Mr. Loudermilk. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize Mr. Carey for 5 minutes.
Mr. Carey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a
statement from Michael Fratangelo, a poll greeter in Luzerne
County.
Mr. Loudermilk. Without objection.
[The Michael Fratangelo statement referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Carey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will quickly read his
statement.
``I was assigned to the Dallas Township Municipal Garage in
Dallas District 3 as a poll greeter from 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. on
election day.
``The precinct experienced an issue of running out of paper
ballots at the voting location in the late afternoon. Several
voters had mentioned that they were unable to vote since the
location ran out of ballots as they walked in and out of the
building.
``A sheriff witnessed delivering more paper ballots later
in the afternoon at a voting location. It is unclear if
provisional ballots were used and how many individuals were
unable to vote.
``However, other locations in the county, such as Harveys
Lake, were also affected by running out of paper ballots,
according to the reports.
``Every voter should have the equal and fair opportunity to
cast their ballots without any issue on election day.''
End of statement.
Mr. Loudermilk. Without objection.
Mr. Carey. To the witnesses--and I know the chair pointed
this out--we all do serve on multiple Committees, and many of
us have to run and juggle the time between each Committee.
I want you to understand, though, that I was talking to
Committee staff when I was trying to squeeze in a little bit of
lunch right before I came back out. We actually have, I think,
274 people that are actually watching this online. Many of the
Members and their staffs are watching it online while we are
here because they have got to be in multiple other places.
I just thought I would put that for the witnesses.
I guess I will start with Mr. Fitzgerald.
About how long have you been voting in Luzerne County?
Mr. Fitzgerald. Me?
Mr. Carey. Yes.
Mr. Fitzgerald. Do not quote me on this one, but I would
say about 5, 6 years. I was previously living in North
Carolina. previous to that, I was in Pennsylvania. About 5
years.
Mr. Carey. Five years?
Mr. Herring?
Mr. Herring. Since I returned to the Marine Corps in 2007.
Mr. Carey. Okay.
Mr. Walsh?
Mr. Walsh. Since I was old enough to vote. That would be 30
years, if I do the math right.
Mr. Carey. You did not have to give your age, Mr. Walsh.
Are you confident--and I will start with you, Mr.
Fitzgerald--are you confident that the problems will be
resolved in time for the 2024 election? If not, why?
Mr. Fitzgerald. Do not know. It is like anything in a
business or in Congress or anything. It is how you address the
problem, how honest you are about the problems.
The fighting between parties is stupid. I think what we
should do is come together and figure out a solution and try to
make--so it can, 100 percent, be good in Luzerne County. It
depends on, again, what I said. Who we recruit, who we hire,
how we train them, and the management. It really comes down to
that. We work together as Americans. I think we can do better.
Mr. Carey. Thank you.
Mr. Herring?
Mr. Herring. I believe, without a full reconciliation, not
only at the county level, but there are obviously a lot of
issues right now with election integrity, I do not think a lot
of people can say with confidence that they are ready for the
next voting cycle.
I do want to add one real quick thing. The accusations that
were levied against a Republican member of the Luzerne County
Election Board, she wanted to not certify the election until
all of these issues were figured out. Lo and behold, a few days
later, accusations appeared. Those accusations are now brought
in front of this Committee.
That is what we are dealing with in Luzerne County. It is
kind of a microcosm of, I am sure, what is national. These are
the same political partisan games that are happening there.
No, I do not have confidence.
Mr. Carey. Okay.
Mr. Walsh?
Mr. Walsh. No, sir, I do not believe that the voters in
Luzerne County are confident whatsoever. In fact, I thought our
confidence level was low to start the last election. It is at
an all-time low now.
Thank you.
Mr. Carey. Okay.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I will yield back the balance of
my time.
Mr. Loudermilk. The gentleman yields.
I now recognize Mr. D'Esposito for 5 minutes.
Mr. D'Esposito. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair.
I guess, to follow up on Mr. Carey's questions, we know
that we are not confident. I guess I am going to pose a similar
question in how do we regain that confidence.
Mr. Fitzgerald. Again, I think I just said that. I think,
you know, we cannot gut the Election Bureau because then we
have nobody. Somebody needs to be accountable. I think we need
to address that.
Again, we need to put all hands on deck, the county
administrator, the county manager. Maybe get some other county
employees to come over and lend hands. Outside help.
Until we get a structure in place where everything, like,
from a paper clip inventory to paper to training, I think for
recruiting for poll watchers on a weekly basis, because we are
an elderly community in Luzerne County, and most of our poll
watchers are elderly, we are going to have issues in the
future. If we do not address them immediately, they are just
going to get worse.
Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you.
Mr. Herring. I would say--and it is a pretty simple
concept--bipartisanship would actually work. I mean, we as
voters, depending on if you go Republican or Democrat, a lot of
the precincts that were affected were one party. A lot of the
folks that you hear from are one party. That one party feels
like they were disproportionately affected by this election.
I do want to point out that the acting election director
for this last election was a City Council Democrat. The
Election Board is ran by a majority Democrat. The only way to
make confidence in the other side is by making them part of the
process and not making this a partisan issue.
Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you.
Mr. Walsh. I think before we make it better we have to know
what happened. There are always solutions. I really feel, even
between Republicans and Democrats, you can always find a win-
win somewhere. I know it seems crazy these days, but I really
believe that you can find a win-win. If you do not know the
core of the problem and what took place, how can you fix it?
Mr. D'Esposito. I agree, Mr. Walsh. Especially when it
comes to elections, we should be finding a common ground.
Mr. Chair, I would like to submit for the record two
articles, one from Tioga Publishing and one from the Times
Leader, just refuting Mr. Morelle's comments. If I could submit
for the record.
Mr. Loudermilk. Without objection.
[The articles referred to follow:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you. With that, I will yield back my
time.
Mr. Loudermilk. The gentleman yields.
I now recognize Ms. Lee for 5 minutes.
Ms. Lee. Thank you all so much for being here. This is such
an important topic. Hearing your personal stories and
perspectives really helps us get a sense of what it was like
there on election day, which is so important to us.
Mr. Walsh, I would like to start my questions with you,
having heard your testimony to this point and having read your
written statement. In the most general sense, Mr. Walsh, do you
feel like there was a free and fair election in your county in
2022?
Mr. Walsh. Absolutely not.
Ms. Lee. Is it your assessment that voters around your
State were treated equally to one another?
Mr. Walsh. No, they were not.
Ms. Lee. Okay. In your observation and in what you have
learned as you continue to research this issue, do you believe
ballots were handled securely in your county?
Mr. Walsh. Nowhere near secure at all.
Ms. Lee. Having had the opportunity not only to have your
own experience but to continue to study this issue and talk to
others, how do you and your community feel about what happened
on election day in 2022?
Mr. Walsh. You know, I talked to a lot of people. I talked
to most of these people that signed these affidavits. I did not
talk to every one of them, but I did talk to a lot of them.
They just feel like things are broken in our county.
It was like the last three elections it has been something
else, something else, something else. Then this was like the
coup de grace. You know what I mean?
We just do not have--we do not have any trust in what is
happening in Luzerne County.
Ms. Lee. If I am understanding your testimony correctly, it
sounds like one of the things that is important to you is
transparency and accountability. Would that be fair?
Mr. Walsh. That is a fair assessment.
Ms. Lee. Alright. Is there anything besides those two
things--which we are actually working very hard to do here in
Congress on this subject--is there anything beyond that that we
could be doing that would help allay your concerns and develop
a better going-forward strategy?
Mr. Walsh. You know, I heard a couple of times tonight--or
today--that more money needs to be thrown at it. I just do not
agree with that.
I think there is a core issue and a core problem. It may be
a handful of individuals. I am not pointing my finger at any
one person. We need to find out what the problem is.
A $65,000 salary for Election Bureau--our average single
income in Luzerne County is just over $29,000, $54,000 for a
couple. A $65,000 salary for an Election Bureau director is not
a bad salary in our town.
I do not think throwing money at the problem. I think the
management of funds is the issue in Luzerne County.
Ms. Lee. Alright. Thank you.
Mr. Herring, I would like to pose a similar question to
you. Do you have any observations based on what you have seen
and what you have heard today about how we might be taking
action to ensure that our future elections operate more
effectively?
Mr. Herring. Well, I know it is an unpopular thing
apparently, but accountability, again, as has been stated so
much in this room.
Even more so, the Luzerne County Board of Elections has in
their own rule book that they can conduct an internal
investigation into what happened. When it goes to the
accountability piece, I think that is an important part. They
could have conducted their own investigation.
That is why they are in those positions. They did not get
asked to go into those. They signed up and said: I will do
this. They had to agree to it.
Why did not they conduct their own internal investigation
before turning it over to the district attorney? I think it
goes back to accountability. Either they did not understand
their own rule book, or they did not want to follow it.
That is one of the big issues that needs to be looked into
as well because now they hide behind, they shield themselves
under this current investigation.
Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Herring.
Mr. Fitzgerald, to you. Is there anything that you would
add in terms of what we should be looking at and what we should
be attempting to implement or do going forward to ensure we
have better elections in the future?
Mr. Fitzgerald. Yes. I think that the County Council, they
should change the charter where right now it says, as far as
who gets on the board, it should be two of one party, two of
another, and you vote the other party. It is always going to be
three Republicans and two Democrats or three Democrats and two.
I think they should change it, have no more than two of any
party. Then this way no one party can steamroll another party.
That is No. 1.
No. 2, at the Election Bureau, we are all about diversity,
except when it comes to the Election Bureau. Diversity in the
Election Bureau should be not Black, White, man, female. It
should be Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, and Communist.
Whatever. Whatever you are voting, whatever demographics you
have in your county could possibly be there.
When you have--you know, like it is like going to a
football game, and the Giants offense and the Giants defense
and the coach of the Giants are flipping the coin toss. Hey, it
is heads. How the hell are we supposed to know if it is heads
or tails? Are you kidding me? That is what we have in our
county. It is a joke. It really is.
Again, it goes right back to the hiring. If we can have
transparency and we can work together, and we have--I hate to
say it, but it is possible--a Democrat and a Republican as
director and assistant director. The Republican can go to the
Republicans: Hey, Republicans, they are not cheating. The
Democrat or vice-versa could go: They are not cheating and they
work together. That would be a beautiful thing.
We do not have that in Luzerne County. We have a person
that is in charge, hires their friends of the same political
view, and then the other party gets screwed. It does not take a
rocket scientist to figure that one out.
If you want to ask me, I know it is against the law, you
are not allowed to hire people based on their political views,
but when people are interviewing for the job, they just go on
Facebook, Google, or the voter list and find out what the hell
they voted, and they could hire whoever they want. They could
say they did not know, but they do.
Ms. Lee. Well, thank you, gentlemen, each for sharing your
stories and your perspectives with us here today.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Loudermilk. The chair of the Elections Subcommittee
yields back.
I now recognize to the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr.
Meuser, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Meuser. Thank you, Chairman. May I say, it is great
having the former secretary of state of Florida here asking
questions and helping us get to the bottom of this.
Gentlemen and those who testified just the audios and all
we listened to, thank you very much for being here. There is no
question, I think everybody listening--and a lot of people are
listening, by the way. This is on C-SPAN and other places. Or
not necessarily C-SPAN, but other streams. Very, very
compelling. Very, very important. I think will make a
difference. It certainly needs to.
It certainly will not change November 8th, 2022, but if
this is not being heard--the level of frustration, the level of
honesty, the level of accuracy, the level of firsthand
information as to what has occurred, and the general sense and
feel from each of you. I mean, we have got Ross Township. We
have got Duryea.
Mr. Herring, where are you from?
Mr. Herring. Actually, I am from Duryea, Sweet Valley.
Mr. Meuser. Sweet Valley. Okay. Part of my district, some
in District Eight. Great.
By the way, Mr. Herring, thank you for your service.
Mr. Herring. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Mr. Meuser. Thank you.
Look, why this gets in everybody's head so bad, I mean, it
is kind of like if fuel was not delivered to the Indy 500 on
the day of the race. It is like if at the Super Bowl, no
footballs were brought.
Did you use that one before, Mr. Fitzgerald.
Mr. Fitzgerald. Yes, we used that analogy earlier today.
Mr. Meuser. No paper for the voting machines. It is just
incredulous that that could occur.
Earlier I asked, in the earlier testimony, how did this
happen? They said, well, they did not order paper. Well,
obviously. What was the system? Who was to order it? Who else
was involved? Was it the purchasing? Was not there a checklist
on what to cover the days previous to the election? You know
what the answer to that is? Of course there is.
That is why no other county perhaps in the country, let
alone Pennsylvania, experienced anywhere near the type of
problems that we did in Luzerne County.
We do demand accountability. We do demand some
responsibility. We have got to have a clear picture as to what
is being done to correct this problem moving forward, whatever
it might be. It could be very simple. At least the chain of
decision making so this does not occur.
Look, I have got a lot of questions, but I really, really
appreciate everything that you had to say here. Why those
responsible have not been screaming from the rooftops comments
and procedures of what is going to occur in less than 60 days
in our primary election is perhaps worse than the mistakes that
were made on election day itself. What has been done?
Their level of silence is highly unacceptable and continues
to bleed confidence from our--from my constituents, the people
of Luzerne County, the people of Pennsylvania, probably the
people of the country that are listening to this.
We certainly need to get that response from this Committee
hearing as well as from the district attorney's report, I
hope--which, of course, is not a criminal investigation, but it
should be taking the people's well-being into consideration.
Go ahead, Mr. Herring. You have something to add?
Mr. Herring. Yes, I am sorry. Just to add real quick. Not
only did we ask questions at these public meetings, but we also
followed our process, which was doing the right-to-know laws
Mr. Fitzgerald talked about. I submitted three right-to-knows.
All three were denied. Luzerne County has no interest in giving
us what we are asking for, which is available under the law.
Not only did they deny, the State ruled on my behalf, I was
granted my appeal, and then they actually took it to the Court
of Common Pleas. I have an upcoming court hearing just to get
right-to-know requests through the county.
I just want you to know this is what we are dealing with.
Mr. Meuser. Mr. Fitzgerald, has the county in any way done
anything to renew or instill any confidence in you in the
upcoming election, for the upcoming election?
Mr. Fitzgerald. No. They are actually doing the opposite.
Instead of just coming out, like I said, and just doing
everything they can to get back voter confidence--an apology is
the thing. Hey, listen. I have kids and we all--and me, I have
done a lot of things that I am--you know, we all have.
The first thing is, you have to take ownership of it. You
have to apologize. Then you have to reconcile that. They have
not even apologized.
You cannot reconcile something until you at least admit you
did something wrong. Look in the mirror and say: I messed up.
How do we fix it?
Mr. Meuser. Mr. Walsh, last word? Any further comments to
instill confidence in you or your thoughts?
Mr. Walsh. I just think we have to figure out the root of
the problem. You cannot fix this going forward. It is unfixable
right now until we know what happened in November. That is it.
I mean, I do not know why this is so difficult.
Just to Mr. Herring's comment about this right-to-know, why
the county would put us through hoops if they had nothing to
hide. Why do they take him to court over our right-to-know
access that he is requesting from the county?
Mr. Meuser. I, too, would like to know what they are afraid
of even participating in today's hearing. I agree with you.
Thank you all again very, very much.
Mr. Loudermilk. The gentleman yields.
First of all, let me thank our witnesses for appearing
before us today.
Just remind Members of the Committee that, if you have
additional questions--which they may have for you--we ask that
you please respond to those questions in writing.
At this point, I recognize Ranking Member Morelle for
closing statements.
Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for yielding.
Thank you to the witnesses for your testimony and for being
here.
As I mentioned in my opening statement and has been
discussed throughout this hearing, the paper shortages and
other issues on election day in Luzerne County in 2022 were
inexcusable.
Many of the factual questions, however, about what led to
the election day issues remain unanswered after nearly two-and-
a-half hours of our hearing.
It is not surprising. The witnesses most able to provide
relevant testimony rightfully declined to testify due to the
ongoing district attorney's investigation.
Much has been said by witnesses and by Members about the
fact that this is in the district attorney's office. I want to
just submit to the record three sections of Pennsylvania title
25 statute.
The first section, 2642(i), which requires the Board of
Elections ``to investigate election frauds, irregularities and
violations of this act, and to report all suspicious
circumstances to the district attorney.''
Section 355(b) of title 25: ``The code delegates the
district attorney of any county in which a violation has
occurred shall have concurrent powers and responsibilities with
the attorney general over violations committed under this
act.''
Finally, under the same title, section 1802: ``Each
commission shall investigate alleged violations of this part
within its county and report apparent violations to the
district attorney of the county.''
The Pennsylvania statute clearly determined in State law
that the first obligation is to report irregularities to the
district attorney. That is what should happen. That is what is
happening. I support that happening.
I do think, also, that once the report of the district
attorney is made available--and my understanding is there is no
reason to suggest that the district attorney will not do
anything other than his obligation. I understand he is a
qualified individual.
I might note, parenthetically, he is a Republican. I think
he will do the right thing. I am sure of that. I am sure my
colleagues will agree.
Then I think that when we get that report, then many of the
questions that have been asked today will understandably be
answered. If not, then there are additional opportunities for
us to investigate.
Also, I just want to note, none of the testimony today
provided that I heard supports the conclusory title of this
hearing as an example of Government suppression in the title of
the hearing, Government voter--Government suppression.
I do note the FBI website: ``Intentionally deceiving
qualified voters to prevent them from voting is voter
suppression.'' ``Intentionally deceiving qualified voters to
prevent them from voting is voter suppression--and it is a
Federal crime,'' in addition to potentially State crimes,
because there were both Federal elections and State elections
on the ballot in 2022.
All this leads me simply to say this. This is tragic. What
happened to all voters in Luzerne County is tragic.
Let us do the right thing. Let us get the report from the
district attorney who is empowered by Pennsylvania law to do
the initial investigation on any irregularities.
Once that report comes back, if we determine that there are
further things this Committee ought to do, I would strongly
suggest, Mr. Chair, and I will support a second hearing to take
note of whatever the report is and to ask for additional
testimony based on that report and to continue to look at what
responsibilities the Election Bureau had, who was responsible
for this.
This is catastrophic. It should not be done. I would
continue to support efforts to get to the bottom of what
happened.
I appreciate very much you allowing me the opportunity to
offer some additional comments. I would submit these sections
of Pennsylvania code with unanimous consent for the record.
With that, I yield back, sir.
Mr. Loudermilk. Without objection.
[The Pennsylvania code sections referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you for being here.
I agree with Mr. Morelle that we have more unanswered
questions at this point. That is why I think it is important
for us to continue down this path.
I also think that it was important for us to have this
hearing now, even though we did not have people that should
have been here that could have answered some of these
questions, because this is so important. It is going to take
multiple hearings. It is going to take a lot of investigation
for us to get to the bottom of this, get the proper answers,
and ensure that this never happens again.
I think it was timely to have this hearing. I think it was
important to have this hearing, and I think it is important
that we continue the oversight and investigations that we are
empowered to do.
I also want to bring up that, according to ``Britannica,''
voter suppression is also defined as, ``in U.S. history and
politics, any legal or extralegal measure or strategy whose
purpose or practical effect is to reduce voting, or registering
to vote,'' by members of a targeted group or political party or
religious community.
I think, as I had stated in my questioning earlier, there
very well could--these actions very well could equate to voter
suppression simply by losing the faith and confidence of the
American people in their electoral system.
Without objection, each Member will have 5 legislative--
Okay. We are going to pause for just a moment, as I have been
advised that the full chair of the Committee is returning and
would like to actually close out the Committee hearing. Without
objection, we will just pause for a moment.
Members are advised that votes will be called in
approximately 5 minutes. Votes in the full House.
Chairman Steil [Presiding.] Thank you, Mr. Loudermilk.
Mr. Ranking Member, sorry for being tardy on my return
back.
I just wanted to comment and say thank you for
participating in today's hearing. I think throughout the
hearing today we heard about the challenges that Luzerne County
had, about how voters like yourselves, like others who we
played testimony of here today, how they were disenfranchised
by actors in Luzerne County.
I think ultimately, at the end of the day, everyone
deserves answers as to what occurred. Many people were heard
here today. I think at the end of the day, we deserve, and you
deserve, and the people of Luzerne County deserve answers as to
what happened.
I appreciate your testimony. I appreciate every Member of
the Committee for participating, Mr. Meuser and the Ranking
Member as well.
Without objection, each Member shall have 5 legislative
days to insert additional material into the record or revise
and extend their remarks.
If there is no further business, I thank the Members for
their participation. Without objection, the Committee stands
adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 1:31 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
[all]