[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
THE IMPACT OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ON
SOCIAL SERVICES
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY,
SECURITY, AND ENFORCEMENT
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
THURSDAY, JANUARY 11, 2024
__________
Serial No. 118-59
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
54-615 WASHINGTON : 2024
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair
DARRELL ISSA, California JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking
KEN BUCK, Colorado Member
MATT GAETZ, Florida ZOE LOFGREN, California
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
TOM McCLINTOCK, California STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky Georgia
CHIP ROY, Texas ADAM SCHIFF, California
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina J. LUIS CORREA, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana ERIC SWALWELL, California
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin TED LIEU, California
CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
BEN CLINE, Virginia MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
LANCE GOODEN, Texas LUCY McBATH, Georgia
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
TROY NEHLS, Texas VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
BARRY MOORE, Alabama DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
KEVIN KILEY, California CORI BUSH, Missouri
HARRIET HAGEMAN, Wyoming GLENN IVEY, Maryland
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas BECCA BALINT, Vermont
LAUREL LEE, Florida
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina
------
SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY, SECURITY,
AND ENFORCEMENT
TOM McCLINTOCK, California, Chair
KEN BUCK, Colorado PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington,
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona Ranking Member
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin ZOE LOFGREN, California
CHIP ROY, Texas J. LUIS CORREA, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
TROY NEHLS, Texas DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
BARRY MOORE, Alabama ERIC SWALWELL, California
WESLEY HUNT, Texas Vacancy
CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
AARON HILLER, Minority Staff Director & Chief of Staff
C O N T E N T S
----------
Thursday, January 11, 2024
Page
OPENING STATEMENTS
The Honorable Tom McClintock, Chair of the Subcommittee on
Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the State
of California.................................................. 1
The Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee
on Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the
State of Washington............................................ 3
The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the Committee on
the Judiciary from the State of New York....................... 5
WITNESSES
Chief Manuel Mello, III, Eagle Pass Fire Department
Oral Testimony................................................. 8
Prepared Testimony............................................. 11
Gregory Chen, Senior Director, Government Relations, American
Immigration Lawyers Association
Oral Testimony................................................. 15
Prepared Testimony............................................. 17
Steven A. Camarota, Director of Research, Center of Immigration
Studies
Oral Testimony................................................. 25
Prepared Testimony............................................. 27
Danyela Souza Egorov, Vice President, Community Education
Council, New York City School District 2, Manhattan; Project
Director, A Parent Powered, New York
Oral Testimony................................................. 41
Prepared Testimony............................................. 43
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
All materials submitted for the record by the Subcommittee on
Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement are listed
below.......................................................... 75
An article entitled, ``How Texas officials stymied nonprofits'
efforts to help migrants they bused to northern cities,'' Jan.
9, 2024, CBS News, submitted by the Honorable Jerrold Nadler,
Ranking Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State
of New York, for the record
Materials submitted by the Honorable J. Luis Correa, a Member of
the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement from the State of California, for the record
An article entitled, ``Shut out of DACA, and traditional jobs,
young immigrants start businesses to get ahead,'' Sept. 15,
2022, Los Angeles Times
An article entitled, ``What rising immigration really means for
California's economy,'' Jan. 9, 2024, Los Angeles Times
Materials submitted by the Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking
Member of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,
and Enforcement from the State of Washington, for the record
A report entitled, ``The Economic Benefits of Immigration,''
Fall 2023, Berkeley Review of Latin American Studies
A report entitled, ``The Economic Contributions of Unauthorized
Workers: An Industry Analysis,'' Nov. 2016, National Bureau
of Economic Research
A report entitled, ``Undocumented Immigrants' State & Local Tax
Contributions,'' March 2017, Institute on Taxation &
Economic Policy
A report entitled, ``Examining the Economic Contributions of
Undocumented Immigrants by Country of Origin,'' Mar. 8,
2021, New American Economy Research Fund
A report entitled, ``Keeping Medicare Solvent: How Immigrants
Subsidize Medicare's Truth Fund for All U.S. Seniors,''
Apr. 2021, New American Economy Research Fund
A report entitled, ``Immigrants Contribute More in Private
Insurance Premiums than they Receive in Benefits,'' Apr.
2021, New American Economy
A report entitled, ``Benefits of Immigration Outweigh the
Costs,'' Spring 2016, George W. Bush Institute
A report entitled, ``Immigrants and Public Benefits: What Does
the Research Say?'' Nov. 2018, Bipartisan Policy Center
A report entitled, ``Immigration Facts: The Positive Economic
Impact of Immigration,'' Jul. 21, 2020, FWD.us
A report entitled, ``The Effects of Immigration on the United
States' Economy,'' Jun. 27, 2016, Penn Wharton University
of Pennsylvania, Budget Model
A report entitled, ``Immigrants Contribute Greatly to U.S.
Economy, Despite Administration's, `Public Charge' Rule
Rationale,'' Aug. 15, 2019, Center on Budget and Policy
Priorities
An article entitled, ``GOP Governors Vow to Close Doors to Syrian
Refugees,'' Nov. 16, 2015, The New York Times, submitted by the
Honorable Deborah Ross, a Member of the Subcommittee on
Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the State
of North Carolina, for the record
Materials submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member
of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement from the State of Texas, for the record
A fact sheet entitled, ``FACT SHEET: White House Calls on
Congress to Advance Critical National Security
Priorities,'' Oct. 20, 2023, The White House
A statement from the Asian Pacific Institute on Gender-Based
Violence (API-GBV)
A statement from the Center for Law and Social Policy (CLASP)
A statement from the Church World Service (CWS)
A statement from the National Immigration Law Center (NILC)
A statement from United U.S.
Not provided at time the of publication
A statement from Juliana Macedo do Nascimento, Deputy Director
of Federal Advocacy, United We Dream
A statement from the Women's Refugee Commission
A statement from the National Immigration Law Center (NILC)
A statement from the Pastor Ortega, National Association of
Christian Churches
Not provided at time the of publication
APPENDIX
Materials submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member
of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement from the State of Texas, for the record
A statement from Cris Ramon, Senior Policy Advisor, Immigration
Policy Project, and Laura Vazquez, Director, Immigrant
Integration, UnidosUS
A statement from the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member of
the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement from the State of Texas, for the record
THE IMPACT OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ON
SOCIAL SERVICES
----------
Thursday, January 11, 2024
House of Representatives
Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,
and Enforcement
Committee on the Judiciary
Washington, DC
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:06 a.m., in
Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Tom McClintock
[Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Members present: Representatives McClintock, Jordan, Biggs,
Tiffany, Roy, Spartz, Nehls, Moore, Hunt, Jayapal, Nadler,
Correa, Escobar, Jackson Lee, and Ross.
Mr. McClintock. The Subcommittee will come to order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess
at any time.
We welcome everyone to today's hearing on the impact of
illegal immigration on social services. We'll begin with
opening statements, starting with myself.
The very day he took office, Joe Biden issued Executive
Orders that opened our borders to the world and began the
largest illegal mass migration in recorded history. Since that
day, his Administration has deliberately released into the
country over 3.3 million illegal aliens, a population the size
of the State of Iowa.
While the Border Patrol was overwhelmed changing diapers
and taking names, an additional 1.7 million known gotaways,
have also flooded in. An additional illegal population the size
of West Virginia.
Ever since that day, I've asked the Democrats a series of
very simple questions. How does it improve access to healthcare
for Americans when we pack our emergency rooms and maternity
wards with illegals demanding free healthcare?
How does it strengthen our social safety net to allow in
five million impoverished people requiring care? How does it
make our communities safer by making it all but impossible to
deport criminal illegal aliens?
How does it help working families by flooding the labor
market with cheap illegal labor? How does it improve our
schools by packing classrooms with non-English speaking
students?
I am still waiting for an answer to these questions from
the Democrats. The reality is starting to become obvious to the
American people.
Coincidentally, after we'd announced this hearing on the
impact of this crisis on social services, Mayor Eric Adams
kicked four thousand New York children out of their high school
to house two thousand illegal migrants. He has yet to explain
why he didn't offer them a plane ticket home instead.
Indeed, one estimate from New York City is that the cost of
simply educating, let alone housing, and feeding these recent
arrivals, will cost the city schools one billion dollars next
year.
That is effectively a one billion dollar cut in their
school budgets. A one billion dollar cut to the funds available
to educate legal residents.
We have already heard of American Veterans kicked out of
nursing homes to make way for illegal aliens. Law enforcement
is overwhelmed by dealing with the accompanying crimes.
American mothers are forced to drive three hours to deliver
their babies, because every maternity bed in their local
hospital is taken up by a law breaker who has no legal right to
be here. We'll hear of more outrages today.
Under the Biden Administration, schools are becoming
illegal alien shelters, airports are becoming illegal alien
shelters, parks are becoming illegal alien shelters, police
stations are becoming illegal alien shelters, nursing homes are
becoming illegal alien shelters, hotels are becoming illegal
alien shelters, and homeless shelters are becoming illegal
alien shelters.
All of this is paid for by struggling American families who
work hard, pay their taxes, and obey our laws. When they
question this, they're called racist xenophobes by my
Democratic colleagues.
Now, this crisis is not because of incompetence. This is
the deliberate policy of this Administration. It's not going to
be solved by new laws that the Senate won't pass, and the
President won't sign or enforce.
It won't be solved by spending more money to encourage and
support still more illegal aliens flooding our country. It
won't be solved by swapping one leftist official for another.
The harsh truth is that this catastrophe was set in motion
when the American people elected this Administration. It's
going to continue until the American people replace it with one
that will defend our citizens, secure our borders, and restore
the rule of law.
This unprecedented illegal migration is exactly what the
Democrats promised to do. It's exactly what they have done.
It's exactly what they have defended for the last three years
in this Congress. If you voted for them. This is exactly what
you voted for. If that surprises you, you weren't paying any
attention.
The good news is the American people are starting to pay
attention as communities confront the dangers and deprivations
that this Administration and its supporters in Congress have
unleashed on them. We will quantify some of that in today's
testimony and then pray it's not too late to save our country.
I am now pleased to recognize the Ranking Member for an
opening statement.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. As we hurdle toward a
government shutdown, with House Republicans unable to fulfill
their most basic responsibility of agreeing to a funding plan
that keeps the government going, last night we shut down the
floor because they couldn't even pass their own rules.
Yet, here we are. Having another hearing to discuss
migrants who have crossed the border. I am sure that once
again, we will hear the same false talking points blaming
everything on Secretary Mayorkas and President Biden.
The fact is that this country needs fundamental reforms,
positive reforms to an outdated immigration system that
desperately needs to be modernized, that would allow for
multiple legal pathways for immigrants who are already
contributing to our country and those who seek to come to this
country to contribute.
There is so much fearmongering going on that it is
difficult to know exactly where to start. Let me say this,
first, the Biden Administration is enforcing immigration laws.
In fact, the Administration has been so heavy handed in
recent months that I have serious concerns about how they are
conducting border enforcement. This is especially true when it
comes to the Administration's regulations that limit access to
asylum and the use of expedited processing procedures for
families.
Today there are nearly 38 thousand people in Immigration
and Customs Enforcement Detention. By the way, this is what the
Trump Administration averaged in Fiscal Year 2018.
If you listen to my colleagues on the other side, you would
think that there are zero people in detention. The Biden
Administration has also significantly increased removals in a
way that, I worry, violates migrants' due process rights and
their ability to lawfully seek asylum.
Since the end of Title 42 last year, the Biden
Administration has removed or returned to Mexico over 400
thousand individuals, including over 65 thousand individual
members of family units, including children.
This total is nearly equivalent to the number of people
removed in all Fiscal Year 2019 under Donald Trump. So, the
idea that the Administration is not enforcing the law is
ridiculous.
Second, I think this is a really important point, this
hearing is supposed to distract the American people from the
fact that my Republican colleagues have absolutely no
accomplishments to run on.
Once again, they are trying to scapegoat immigrants by
making claims about undocumented immigrants' use of social
services. However, under our laws, they are not eligible for
the vast majority of Federal benefits.
Beyond that, it is absurd to say that immigrants are a
drain on the economy. Study after study have proven that the
U.S. economy is driven by immigrants, both documented and
undocumented.
Undocumented immigrants pay an estimated seven billion
dollars in sales and excise taxes, 3.6 billion dollars in
property taxes, and 1.1 billion dollars in personal income
taxes every year.
In 2019 alone, Mexican undocumented households contributed
nearly nine billion dollars in Federal, State, and local taxes.
That same year, undocumented Mexican workers contributed 14.5
billion dollars to social security and Medicare through the
taxes taken out of their paychecks. Which means that they
contributed billions of dollars to entitlement programs that
American citizens have the access to, but those undocumented
immigrants have no ability to benefit from.
Immigrants don't hurt the economy. Let me say that again to
the American people who may be watching this fiasco. Immigrants
do not hurt the economy.
What hurts us are antiquated laws that require the
detention of lawful asylum seekers and inefficient and
arbitrary waiting periods for work authorization. Laws that
lack sufficient lawful pathways for those seeking refuge or
better opportunities here.
Thanks to President Biden, unemployment is at the lowest
level in 50 years. While employers are growing, they cannot
find the workers they need, despite attempts to hire American
workers. The system keeps out so many immigrants who could help
fill these crucial economic needs.
As we have been saying for months, we need to expand lawful
pathways for those seeking protection, to ease the burden at
the border. As crises reverberate around the globe, and more
people need refuge, the law remains frozen in time.
We have not had significant updates to the overall
immigration system in roughly 30 years. Sadly in this Congress,
led by a party that continues to be inflicted by--continues to
be paralyzed by self-inflicted wounds, needed immigration
reform appears to be out of reach.
Now, the Administration's Supplemental Border Funding
Request, which has a lot for both parties to like, has turned
into a partisan political football where we are refusing aid to
Ukraine against Russian invasion, because Republicans want to
shut down immigration.
Ignoring this request imperils the Safe Mobility Offices in
the hemisphere, where migrants can be assessed for eligibility
for refugee status or other lawful pathways. These Centers
encourage migrants to forego taking the dangerous journey to
the border, relieving pressure at the border.
These Centers need additional funding to be successful.
People want to come here lawfully. When the Biden
Administration provided parole for Cubans, Nicaraguans, and
Haitians, border crossings between ports of entry from those
countries dropped by 99 percent.
Alternatively, when the Trump Administration cutoff
refugees from the Congo, we started seeing Congolese refugees
at the Southern border, when we had never seen them there
before.
We also desperately need the additional funds requested for
the Shelter and Services Program to reimburse States,
localities, and NGO's working to welcome migrants. These are
vital funds that would aid many of the States that my
colleagues on the other side of the aisle say are overburdened.
Unfortunately, Republicans in the House remain obsessed
with pushing H.R. 2, their cruel, extreme, and unworkable
legislation which would only create more chaos at the border.
The Senate has made it clear that this bill is a non-starter.
I worry that some of my colleagues are pushing that
legislation, because they actually have no interest in actually
solving the problem. It is politically beneficial to them to
have immigrants out there as a tool to create political
division.
Just last week, when a Member of this Subcommittee gave the
game away, when he said quote, ``I'm not willing to do too damn
much right now to help a Democrat and to help Joe Biden's
approval rating.'' We have been trying an enforcement only
strategy for 30 years.
The results are plain for everyone to see. We can only
solve the complex issue of immigration by addressing it
holistically and in a bipartisan way that deals with our
economic, our humanitarian, and our security needs. Not an end
run around Congress for bad policy in a supplemental funding
bill.
I look forward to hearing from all our witnesses and the
perspectives they bring on this issue. I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. I now recognize the Ranking Member of the
Full Committee, Mr. Nadler, for his opening statement.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, this is a
brand-new year. Unfortunately, my Republican colleagues are
still running the same tired old playbook.
There are real problems facing our Nation. The right to
bodily autonomy is under attack across the country. From
extreme life-threatening abortion restrictions to bans on
healthcare for trans youth.
We're not even two weeks into the new year, and we've
already seen the first horrific school shooting of 2024. We are
little more than a week away from large parts of our government
shutting down.
The immigration system is simply not working, because
Congress has failed to reform it for over 30 years. What are
House Republicans doing to respond to these problems? Mostly
fighting among themselves.
Their inability to govern led them to pass just 27 bills
that were signed into law last year, marking the least
productive session since the Great Depression. This year is
shaping up to be no better.
An historic dysfunction has prompted multiple Republican
Members of this Subcommittee to complain that they have nothing
to campaign on. Instead of laying out a legislative agenda to
address the needs of the American people, this Committee spent
its time yesterday focused on a subpoena of the President's
son, chasing conspiracy theories in an impeachment inquiry that
has not turned up a shred of evidence of wrongdoing by the
President.
At the same time, the House Committee on Homeland Security
held its first official hearing on the impeachment of Homeland
Security Secretary Mayorkas. Another inquiry completely devoid
of fact with articles of impeachment reportedly imminent in
that Committee.
I do not know whether the Chair of this Committee
deliberately waived our jurisdiction on impeachment to another
Committee, or if Republican leadership simply took it away from
him in an effort to appease the most extreme members of the
MAGA Conference.
The decision sets a terrible precedent. Either way, the
decision is a sad commentary on the priorities of the
Republican majority.
They seem not to care what they break or how they diminish
the House Judiciary Committee, while they ignore the real
challenges facing the American people. They continue to focus
solely on fruitless investigations, because they have no plan
for meaningful reform to the immigration system or any idea how
to address any of the other problems facing our Nation.
Instead of working with Democrats toward reasonable,
workable, bipartisan changes to the immigration system,
Republicans will return to their tired playbook and use this
Subcommittee to demonize immigrants.
We'll hear in an argument largely devoid of facts and wrong
in the law that immigrants are a drain on public benefits
rather than the lifeblood of this country. As President Reagan
said, quote,
Thanks to each one of the new arrivals to this land of
opportunity, we're a Nation forever young, forever bursting
with energy and new ideas, and always on the cutting edge,
always leading the world to the next frontier.
By in large, undocumented immigrants are not eligible for
Federal benefits. In fact, undocumented immigrants pay into
benefits they will never be eligible to receive themselves.
Because of this, immigrants both documented and
undocumented, pay billions more into public benefits programs
then they will ever get back. They are subsidizing the public.
While Federal benefits are not available to undocumented
immigrants, some States, like my home State of New York, and
the Chair's home State of California, choose to offer the same
State benefits to everyone in their State regardless of
immigration status. That is their choice. Congress has no say
in how States choose to utilize their tax dollars.
To the extent that localities like New York City face
challenges in caring for immigrants arriving from the Southern
border, many of these challenges stem in large part from the
desire of Texas Governor Abbott to sow chaos by refusing to
coordinate with local officials and by choosing instead to use
migrants as pawns in his political games.
I am proud of New York City's history of welcoming new
immigrants. We can and we will continue to do so. In fact, I
was pleased to see Mayor Adams announce just yesterday, he is
reversing all anticipated budget cuts for the NYPD, the FDNY,
and likely the Library School, and other social services
programs as well, which he had originally said, ``were needed
due to the arrival of migrants in New York.''
Congress should help, however, by providing additional
resources. By passing bipartisan legislation to help ease the
transition for many migrants by ensuring that they could access
work authorization more quickly and by taking up other
bipartisan reforms to the immigration system.
Time and time again, House Republicans have stood in the
way of progress, of innovation, and of compromise. Instead,
they insist they will only consider Draconian policies that
essentially destroy the asylum and refugee programs, policies
that stand no chance of passage in the Senate, which shows that
they are not interested in real solutions.
Real solutions require compromise, and MAGA Republicans
aren't interested in compromise. Real solutions rarely get you
hits on Fox News or Newsmax. They won't get your Donald Trump's
endorsement.
Enforcement alone cannot fix the immigration system. We
know this, because that approach has largely failed for three
decades. People didn't stop coming when President Trump or
Stephen Miller imposed the cruelest immigration policies
imaginable.
They didn't stop coming when Governor Abbott lined the Rio
Grande with deadly buoys covered in razor wire. They have not
stopped coming even with record levels of removals and
repatriations and funding to immigration enforcement.
We need to expand legal pathways, mitigate push factors,
stamp down on corruption, and implement smart border security
measures. We have to come together to find solutions that
actually work and break free from the partisan entrenchments
that have kept us stuck in the past.
We will need more Border Control Agents, more Asylum
Agents, and more Immigration Judges so that asylum cases can be
adjudicated in weeks, not in years.
We need immigrants in this country. Forget the fact that
the farm--that our vegetables would rot in the ground if it
weren't, if they weren't being picked by many immigrants, many
illegal immigrants.
The fact is that the birth rate in this country is way
below the replacement level. Which means, our population is
going to start shrinking. The ratio of people on Social
Security and Medicare, is going to increase relative to the
number of people supporting them. This is a problem faced by
every major country in the world.
Few countries, however, have the means to solve this
problem through immigration. People want to immigrate to the
United States. They do not want to immigrate to China or
Russia.
We are very lucky in that respect, and we should promote it
and regulate it properly, rather than denounce it ignorantly.
Sadly, based on the track record of the 118 Congress so far, I
don't think that will be happening anytime soon.
I thank the witnesses for appearing before us today. I
yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. McClintock. Well, the gentleman has no time to yield
back. As content as I am in allowing the Democrats to make our
case for us, I do want to warn them, we'll be enforcing the
five-minute limit on opening statements in the future.
Mr. Nadler. Point of order. There are no limits on opening
statements in this Committee, Mr. Chair.
Mr. McClintock. There is a five-minute limit in the House
Rules, Mr. Chair.
Without objection, all opening statements will be included
in the record. I'll now introduce today's witnesses.
We have with us today, Chief Manuel Mello, III. He's the
Chief of the Fire Department in Eagle Pass, Texas. A position
he's served in for nearly a decade.
Chief Mello started with the Fire Department in 1992. He
has 35 years of experience serving his community. In May 2023,
the Texas House of Representatives passed a Resolution honoring
Chief Mello for his decades of service to Eagle Pass.
Our second witness is Mr. Greg Chen. He's the Senior
Director of Government Relations for the American Immigration
Lawyers Association. Mr. Chen graduated from Harvard College
and received his law degree from NYU Law School.
Our third witness is Steve Camarota. He's the Director of
Research for the Center for Immigration Studies and has written
extensively on the economic, fiscal, and demographic impact of
immigration.
Dr. Camarota holds a Master's Degree in Political Science
from the University of Pennsylvania. He earned a Doctorate in
Public Policy Analysis from the University of Virginia.
Finally, we have with us Ms. Danyela Souza Egorov. Ms.
Souza Egorov is the Vice President of the Community Education
Council for New York City School District 2, in Manhattan.
She holds a Master's in Public Policy Analysis from the
University of Virginia. Pardon me, a degree in Public Policy
from Harvard Kennedy School.
Ms. Egorov is also currently the Project Director for A
Parent Powered, New York. A legal immigrant from Brazil, Ms.
Souza Egorov lives in New York City with her family.
We welcome our witnesses. We thank you for appearing today.
We'll begin by swearing you in. Would you please rise and raise
your right hand?
Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the
testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best
of your knowledge, information, and beliefs, so help you God?
[Chorus of I do.]
Mr. McClintock. Great. Thank you very much. Let the record
reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
You may be seated.
Please know your written testimony will be entered into the
record in its entirety. Accordingly, we'd ask that you
summarize your testimony in five minutes.
We'll begin with Chief Mello.
STATEMENT OF CHIEF MANUEL MELLO, III
Chief Mello. Chair McClintock, Ranking Member Jayapal, and
distinguished Members of the Committee. Thank you for the
opportunity to speak to you today on the impact of illegal
immigration on social services, especially the fire department,
our fire department.
The Eagle Pass Fire Department, the Maverick County--
Maverick County is located approximately 140 miles Southwest of
San Antonio, Texas. Eagle Pass is the county seat and borders
the city of Piedras Negras, Coahuila, Mexico, just across the
Rio Grande River.
Both cities share approximately 120 miles of precious
river. We have a population of approximately 70 thousand, which
includes the city and the county. A fluctuating population of
approximately 5,000-10,000 additional visitors to the community
at any given time.
The Fire Department is a small department with three
stations located strategically within the city limits. Each
station has six members, six firefighters on a daily basis
trained in EMS, paramedics or basic EMS, or EMTs.
Total personnel for the Fire Department are 52 on shift
firefighters and ten support staff. Twelve of the personnel are
cross-trained in swift water rescue and are divided into three
team members per shift.
Eagle Pass Fire Department is the main 911 EMS provider in
the community. We respond to 7,500 EMS calls on a yearly basis.
All our emergency ambulance transports go straight to the only
hospital, which is Fort Duncan Medical Center, which has 18
emergency room beds.
Aside from EMS, the Eagle Pass Fire also responds to grass
fires, house and commercial building fires, and all motor
vehicle accidents on two major highways and several Farm to
Market roads within our county. The nearest fire department, in
case of a mutual aid, is one hour away, if available.
In 2021, when the migrant influx started to increase, we
were below staffing due to different reasons such as personnel
retiring, or personnel leaving due to the demands of the job,
while others left to seek better employment and benefits. Since
then, we started a more aggressive employment strategy because
of the demand.
In 2023, EMS transports increased to over nine thousand
calls for assistance. Approximately 10 percent were migrant
related. Our drownings pre-2020 were approximately 8-12 per
year. As of December 2023, we had recorded 43 migrant body
recoveries for this year, for that year.
These body recoveries include men, women, and children
ranging from two months to 15 years old. As a witness to many
incidents, I am here to tell you, we are being overwhelmed with
EMS calls and body recoveries.
In my 33 years of service, I have not experienced this many
calls. There are days it seems that the ambulance wails never
stop.
Going to the river or areas along the river's edge where
the crossings are frequent, has become a norm for us, with
little or no help from anyone, not even the Federal Government.
I have attached a summary of incident so you can have an
idea of what my men and women go through. There is a summary of
two Nicaraguan children that drowned in the Rio Grande River by
Eagle Pass Monday, August 22, 2022.
The first call came in approximately at 12:59 p.m. An EMS
unit and a swift water rescue team responded to the incident
located underneath one of the Eagle Pass/Piedras Negras
International Bridges by the Rio Grande River.
On arrival, Border Patrol were performing CPR on a three-
month old infant. This patient was transported to Fort Duncan
Medical Center with a faint pulse. This infant was later
transported to University Hospital in San Antonio in critical
condition, where he later died.
As the first patient, the three-month-old, was being
treated at Fort Duncan Medical Center, the second 911 call came
in at 13:37 for a three-year old. An additional ambulance and
crew responded with the swift water rescue team to the same
area where the first patient had been located.
On arrival, the EMS crews were advised by Border Patrol
that the infant child, or the child was related to the infant
and had crossed the river at the same time with family members.
He was a three-month-old baby brother.
EMS crews were directed to a pickup truck where the body of
the child had been placed prior to EMS arrival. All efforts to
revise had ceased due to the length of time the patient had
been underwater.
The child had last been seen at approximately 12:45. Based
on the presentation and time of the patient underwater, it was
determined the child had expired.
This is just one of many incidents. For example, the mother
and the daughter that were walking on the side of a major
highway, both struck and killed by a vehicle during a
rainstorm.
The countless children dehydrated or with hypothermia and
in shock that are transported to the hospitals. Young ladies
going into labor as soon as they cross the river. Other
incidents, including the rail car accidents where amputations
are common.
[The prepared statement of Chief Mello follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. McClintock. I'm afraid your time has expired. We'll get
back to the points you want to make during the question and
answer session.
Next, I'm pleased to recognize Mr. Chen, the Democratic
invited witness, for five minutes.
STATEMENT OF GREGORY CHEN
Mr. Chen. Chair McClintock, Ranking Member Jayapal, and
Members of the Subcommittee, I am Greg Chen, the Senior
Director of Government Relations for the American Immigration
Lawyers Association.
The good news is that immigrants have helped make America
stronger and more prosperous. Every day they contribute to its
future. To ensure the Nation's prosperity, Congress must
overhaul the immigration system to meet the country's needs.
First, the Federal Government should address unprecedented
refugee flows worldwide that have pushed more people to the
U.S. borders. The Federal Government must ensure the orderly,
efficient, and fair processing of migrants.
Congress should adequately fund Federal agencies to screen
cases more quickly, to guarantee protection for people who are
eligible for legal relief, and to remove those who are not
eligible in a safe and humane manner. Essential to a fair and
efficient process is ensuring that everybody in the process has
legal representation.
Nationwide, city officials and local service providers are
welcoming arriving immigrants. Some cities are experiencing
real challenges and need more Federal support. Congress should
approve what Mayors of both political parties are asking for,
and that is an increase for FEMA's Shelter and Services
Program, SSP, that funds short term services.
To help cities, governments must also coordinate and share
information better. Unannounced buses filled with people are
political stunts that make it harder for cities to welcome
arrivals.
Another critical step is getting work permits for migrants
who are eligible to work, as soon as possible so they can
achieve self-sufficiency. To speed up the work permit process,
last fall government officials set up emergency clinics with
volunteer AILA members and other NGO's. The Federal Government
should take more steps like this to get more people working.
Importantly, effective migration management will not be
achieved by focusing only on the border. Congress must also
address systemic delays at all immigration agencies,
particularly USCIS, the Immigration Courts and Consulates
abroad.
The months and years long delays in nearly every
immigration category exacerbate bottlenecks. In border
processing, the delays even compel people with approved visas
for immigrant categories to come to the border.
Some people think the United States should turn away
immigrants at the border and restrict immigration. That would
be a mistake.
The overwhelming evidence shows that immigrants provide
enormous benefits to the United States. They are a huge engine
of economic growth and contribute billions of dollars in
Federal, State, and local taxes annually.
They consume far less per capita in public benefits then
U.S. citizens. Ultimately, it is the ineffective immigration
system, not immigrants that hold back the Nation's growth.
Congress' inability to update immigrant visa numbers are
hurting families and businesses. American families now suffer
prolonged waits, months, even decades for family visas.
American businesses across industry sectors are
experiencing historic labor shortages. They need people to fill
positions that cannot be filled by U.S. workers.
In 2022, Jerome Powell, the Chair of the Federal Reserve
said labor shortages are partly caused by quote, ``a plunge in
net immigration.''
In Florida, a lack of workers has forced farmers to cut
back production. The Republican Governors of Utah and Indiana
are asking Congress to create legal pathways for more workers
to come for their State.
Congress can no longer put aside what it has been pushing
aside for over three decades. It must pass laws that establish
adequate legal pathways to meet the country's needs.
Congress should also do what the great majority of
Americans want, and that is to provide permanent legal status
for Dreamers and other people who are undocumented. They are
contributing every day to this country, and they'll continue to
make the Nation prosper.
Everyone agrees, America needs a better functioning
immigration system. We need a system that recognizes
immigration is vital to our national interest, that secures the
Nation's continuing prosperity, and that ensures a fair and
orderly border processing system.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Chen follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Our next witness is Dr.
Camarota.
STATEMENT OF STEVEN A. CAMAROTA
Mr. Camarota. Mr. Chair and Members of the Committee, thank
you for inviting me to testify on the impact of illegal
immigration on public services.
Allowing widespread illegal immigration raises profound
concerns across a host of issues, from public safety and
national security to the impact on American workers, and the
rule of law. While these impacts are all important, I'm only
going to focus on the fiscal impact and the impact on public
services today.
Now, one of the main reasons we're here, is that the
current surge of illegal immigration appears to be
unprecedented. I've estimated that the illegal population since
President Biden took office has grown by nearly three million.
That's not the number of new illegal immigrants, that's the
number--that's the net increase, which is always offset by
legalizations, out-migrations, and natural mortality. The
number of new additions is much higher.
Now, why do illegal immigrants pay less in taxes than they
use in services and create a fiscal drain? The reason is pretty
simple. It's because such a large share has modest levels of
education, resulting in relatively low average incomes and tax
payments, coupled with significant use of many public benefits.
Prior research indicates that 69 percent of adults who are
illegal immigrants have no education beyond high school,
compared to about 35 percent of the U.S. born population. The
fiscal drain illegal immigrants create is not because they are
freeloaders who all came to get welfare. That would be a
mistake to think that way.
Nevertheless, the National Academy of Science's estimate of
immigrants' fiscal impact by education level, using that we
estimate that the lifetime fiscal drain, all taxes paid, all
services used for illegal immigrants, given their education
roll call is about 68 thousand dollars.
Some of the largest costs are things you might guess:
Welfare programs, public education, and treatment for the
uninsured. Based on the survey of incoming program
participation, we estimate that 59 percent of households headed
by illegal immigrants use one of the major welfare programs,
compared to 39 percent for U.S. born households.
Use of these programs' likely totals, by illegal
immigrants, is about 42 billion dollars a year. Now, some might
wonder, how is that possible? Aren't illegal immigrants banned
from all these programs?
First, illegal immigrant families can receive welfare on
behalf of their U.S. born children. More than half of illegal
immigrant families have U.S. born children.
Also, illegal immigrants under the age of 18, are allowed
to receive a number of programs directly, like free school
meals and WIC. Illegal immigrants can also receive Medicaid
directly under some circumstances. Many States go further in
providing more access to Medicaid.
Some States also provide food stamps to illegal immigrants.
Also, I'll add, several million illegal immigrants have work
authorization and valid social security numbers, allowing them
to receive the earned income tax credit.
The high rate of welfare use by illegal immigrants is not
explained by an unwillingness to work. That's critically
important. We estimate 94 percent of all illegal immigrant
households have at least one worker, compared to only 73
percent of U.S. born households.
It is critically important to remember that welfare uses
and work go together. In fact, the majority of illegal
immigrants and U.S. born households using the welfare system
have a worker. The Nation's welfare system is designed
specifically to help low-wage workers with children.
Now, in addition to welfare, we estimate about 68 billion
dollars in costs for educating illegal immigrants and their
children, and about seven billion in costs for treating the
uninsured.
Now, my estimate is actually higher than the one cited by
Congresswoman Jayapal. I estimate that just to the Federal
Government, illegal immigrants pay about 26 billion dollars a
year in income tax, but also Social Security and Medicaid. It's
just nowhere near enough even to cover their use of the welfare
programs.
Finally, illegal immigration does make the U.S. economy
larger. I've estimated at least, and this is a minimum
estimate, three hundred billion dollars larger because they're
here.
This is not a measure of their contribution. Nor, is it a
measure of a benefit to the U.S. born. Almost all the increase
in economic activity goes to the illegal immigrants themselves
in the form of wages, as it should, since they're the ones
doing the work.
Now, if we do not enforce our laws and instead allow
illegal immigration to continue unabated, the strain on public
services will continue to grow. Resulting in either higher
taxes or cuts in services for American citizens, many of whom
are often quite poor.
Many cities across America are dealing with this reality
right now even as we speak. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Camarota follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Finally, we have with us Ms.
Souza Egorov, welcome.
STATEMENT OF DANYELA SOUZA EGOROV
Ms. Souza Egorov. Thank you. My name is Danyela Souza
Egorov. I'm an immigrant from Brazil.
Mr. McClintock. You have to fix--talk.
Ms. Souza Egorov. Thank you. My name is Danyela Souza
Egorov. I'm an immigrant from Brazil. My husband is an
immigrant from Ukraine. My husband's relatives are war refugees
here in the U.S. under the United Free Ukraine Program.
New York City is our home. I believe legal immigration has
made New York one of the best cities in the world. The current
crisis of open borders and no policy to prioritize who should
be allowed to enter the country, is threatening New York City.
This week, four thousand students at James Madison High
School in Brooklyn, were kicked out of their school in the
middle of the day to turn that school building into a migrant
shelter overnight. This made headlines across the Nation, but
it is what New Yorkers have been dealing with since this crisis
started.
Our city has received over 160 thousand migrants in the
past year. This has had a devastating impact on the city's
finance and social services.
In 2023 alone, New York City spent over five billion
dollars to provide housing and other services for new migrants.
Our Mayor, Eric Adams, estimates that this will cost 12 billion
dollars over the next three years.
I'm a public-school parent and serve as Vice President of
the Community Education Council for School District 2,
Manhattan. Every day, I hear from my community concerns about
the impact of this crisis in our schools.
Here are some concrete examples. Last October, Mayor Adams
canceled the classes of 215 Community New York School Safety
Agents, which are desperately needed in our schools. He said
that parents would have to volunteer to keep our schools safe.
Many schools have little notice about when they will
receive new influx of students. They don't have time to hire
ESL teachers and staff to serve them adequately.
To balance the budget, New York City will no longer offer
preschool for every three-year-old who needs that in our city.
District 75, which serves the students with severe
disabilities, and is the most vulnerable population in our
schools, will have to cut one million dollars per school and
reduce staff. This will impact after school programs, create an
even bigger shortage of paraprofessionals, which might put our
schools out of compliance with student special education plans,
which are legally binding.
Parents in my community cannot understand why the new
students were exempt from the vaccines required by the New York
State, which our students have to take, even though there has
already been an outbreak of varicella at the school in our
district.
The facts unfortunately, are not limited to the schools.
The elderly were kicked out of their housing to make space for
migrant shelters, including a 95-year-old Korean War veteran.
The budget cuts to finance this crisis will impact every
city agency. Our libraries are not opening on Sundays anymore.
The Fire Department of New York has reduced its head count by
more than 50 people.
The New York State Comptroller, Thomas DiNapoli, warned
that New York City is quote, ``teetering on a fiscal cliff,''
because of this migrant crisis.
Since 1990, no more than 45 thousand people were granted
asylum in the U.S. per year. Last year there were two and a
half million border crossings on our Southern border.
According to the Migration Policy Institute, there are more
than 1.3 million asylum applications pending. It takes on
average, four years to complete the process.
New Yorkers want to know, what is the plan to end this
crisis? What is the plan?
If migrants are receiving letters with an appointment in
immigration court to process their asylum in 10 years, in 2030-
2033, will New York taxpayers pay for hotel rooms and shelters
over the next decade? Will we have to incur five billion
dollars in expenses every year? How many more services do low-
income New York citizens have to lose to finance this policy?
In New York City, nearly 40 percent of New Yorkers are
foreign born. Sixty percent live in a household where at least
one family was born abroad, like my family. We know exactly why
people want to live in such a prosperous free city and country.
New Yorkers today feel abandoned by our Mayor, by our
Governor, by our City Comptroller, and by the City Council.
None of them are focused on the interests of New Yorkers and of
taxpayers.
That is why I'm here asking Congress to look at the
situation before New York City is completely bankrupt, before
more low-income New Yorkers lose even more services, and our
greatest American city cannot come back. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Souza Egorov follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. McClintock. Thank you again for your testimony. We will
now proceed to five-minute questions from the Members of the
Subcommittee.
Because of some scheduling issues, we'll begin with Mr.
Roy.
Mr. Roy. Thank you, Chair, very much. I appreciate all the
witnesses for coming in here today. Mr. Mello, it's great to
have you in from the great State of Texas. Appreciate you
coming up.
I'm going to start with you. Because I know firsthand, from
my friends and folks that I've gotten to know very well in
Eagle Pass and along the Rio Grande, I know what you're dealing
with. We talk regularly.
I'm sorry about it. I'm deeply apologetic that the Federal
Government has completely abandoned its duty to do its job at
the border and let the people of Eagle Pass and the people of
Texas stranded holding the bag, having to deal with obviously
the impact on your communities.
So, I would just like to hear from you. I know you didn't
get a chance to finish your statement. Can you tell me--I've
got information here that suggests that with respect to the EMS
calls that your agency receives a day that are migrant related,
I've got information that says the Eagle Pass Fire Department
receives an average 45 calls a day, 30 of them, or 65 percent,
being placed by migrants.
Does that sound right to you?
Mr. Mello. That is a--can you repeat the numbers, please?
Mr. Roy. Forty-five calls a day, 30 of them, or 65 percent
being placed by migrants.
Mr. Mello. That's correct.
Mr. Roy. That's right. That puts a particular strain on
your job, correct? On your facilities and resources, right?
Mr. Mello. Of course, on a regular basis we would make 22-
30 calls. So, that would be on a regular basis where there's no
migrants involved.
Mr. Roy. It can't be cheap to constantly respond to these
calls, right? So, the average cost for a call for services is
about seven hundred dollars, right?
What it totals out to each day would be about 21 thousand
dollars a day to respond to migrants in need of EMS. Does that
sound right?
Mr. Mello. The 21 thousand dollars is a little overrated,
sir. We're looking at more like between 15-18 thousand.
Mr. Roy. OK. So, 15, we want to get the facts right. That's
still a lot of money, right? Fifteen to 18 thousand dollars a
day to respond to migrants in need of EMS?
Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
Mr. Roy. OK. That jump has no doubt put a strain on your
employees. Is it fair to say that Eagle Pass residents have to
wait longer for EMS and fire service than usual when you're
overwhelmed as a result of the border crisis, the number of
migrants that have to call into your services?
Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
Mr. Roy. Some reports put the cost of this surge for the
city of Eagle Pass at 2.2 million dollars since mid-September.
Does that sound right to you?
Mr. Mello. That sounds--that sounds a little over.
Mr. Roy. OK.
Mr. Mello. I would put it at probably half of that amount.
Mr. Roy. OK.
Mr. Mello. Because it fluctuates.
Mr. Roy. OK. So, a million dollars through, since mid-
September on the costs that affect Eagle Pass. That's a million
dollars directly as a consequence of that surge is being
absorbed by the folks at Eagle Pass.
Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
Mr. Roy. Since September. So, of course, with all of this,
has the Federal Government reimbursed your agency for any of
these costs meaningfully?
Mr. Mello. No, sir.
Mr. Roy. OK. Not at all. Well, thank you for that. I'm
sorry that we're not doing a better job to make sure that you
all can do your job without getting overwhelmed.
Mr. Camarota, let me just ask a couple of quick questions.
As of October 2023, the foreign-born population in the United
States is 49\1/2\ million people. Is that correct?
Mr. Camarota. Yes.
Mr. Roy. About 15 percent of the United States population.
Is that correct?
Mr. Camarota. Yes.
Mr. Roy. Is that not at roughly the highest levels we've
ever had? It's been there once or twice before, but now we're
eclipsing it?
Mr. Camarota. Yes. The top was 1890 at 14.8 percent.
America has never been here before. Of course, we're headed
into uncharted territory in terms of the foreign born share of
the U.S. population.
Mr. Roy. Right. This population is growing, the foreign-
born population by 4\1/2\ million under President Biden. So, in
other words, that 49\1/2\ million is skyrocketing and blowing
off that number. Correct?
Mr. Camarota. Right. If this were to continue, again, we
would set new records every month.
Mr. Roy. Does that not have an effect on education with
respect to foreign-born individuals who do not speak English
and the demands on schools?
Mr. Camarota. Right. Since the United States spends about
17,000 dollars a year, a little more than that, but per
student, the cost of educating children of immigrant families
is one of the biggest challenges.
On illegal immigrants, we know that they're just not being
able to pay enough, anywhere near enough in taxes to cover that
cost. Creating real strains.
Mr. Roy. It's a significant upward tick on the use of
welfare programs?
Mr. Camarota. Yes. Illegal immigrants do make extensive use
of welfare programs. Which reflects their educational
attainment.
In other words, less educated native-born people use about
the same. It's just that the immigrants are so much less
educated on average that overall, they have much higher use
rates.
Mr. Roy. So, you would agree that the illegal immigration
problem at the border is having a massive strain on public
resources across the country, in particular, in Texas in border
communities and counties?
Mr. Camarota. Yes. As I said in my testimony, just for
illegal immigrants, about 68 billion in public education.
That's for the whole illegal population.
About 42 billion in welfare costs. Again, that's for the
whole population, not just the newcomers.
Mr. Roy. Thank you, sir.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back. The Chair
recognizes the Ranking Member, Ms. Jayapal for five minutes.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Despite the title of
this hearing and the claims by the majority, immigrants are a
huge engine of economic growth for the American economy.
Study after study shows that immigrants are less likely to
use benefits that they are eligible for. Actually contribute
tens of billions of dollars more into public benefit programs
then they ever receive.
A lack of lawful pathways and an inability to obtain work
authorization quickly when they do come through the Southern
border, are the actual issues that need to be resolved.
So, Mr. Chen, we see a lot of misinformation circulating
online, and repeated in the halls of Congress, and even in this
Committee, about the types of benefits that are available to
undocumented immigrants, including those seeking asylum.
So, can you please succinctly and clearly confirm whether
undocumented immigrants can access Federal benefits like
Medicare and Medicaid or healthcare through the ACA?
Mr. Chen. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. The
simple answer is, they are not eligible. Undocumented
immigrants are not eligible for all those Federal benefits that
you just cited.
Ms. Jayapal. What about Social Security? Do undocumented
immigrants pay into benefit programs like Social Security?
Do they benefit from Social Security?
Mr. Chen. They do pay in billions of dollars, undocumented
immigrants, into the Social Security system, and through taxes
annually. They are not eligible to receive those benefits.
Ms. Jayapal. As you know, there have been a lot of
discussions over the last two months in the U.S. Senate about
permanently changing immigration laws, including raising the
screening standard for asylum seekers, limiting the
Administration's ability to use parole, expanding interior
enforcement and the use of expedited removal, and a new Title
42 like expulsion authority.
Many of those proposed changes would make the border much
more chaotic. Can you discuss the importance of processing
migrants at the border more efficiently and fairly?
How that would positively impact American communities and
cities?
Mr. Chen. So, the kinds of solutions that are now being
proposed either to provide power to shut down the border or to
shut down legal pathways that have been use, like parole, those
are not going to be affective, because people will still come
to the U.S. border and what we will see is, humanitarian
crises.
We'll see a chaos at the Southern border, where people are
going to be waiting. They'll be preyed on by cartels and gangs.
That will create less safe communities on both sides of the
border.
That is not efficient or fair or orderly processing. What
we do need, is those kinds of steps. It begins with funding
immigration agencies operating at the border to be able to
process people more quickly, more efficiently, and in an
orderly way.
Also to assure that people who are eligible for relief,
like asylum, have a fair shot at it. By doing that, making the
system more effective as you were describing, or asking, cities
and communities in the United States will have a better system
for people arriving.
They'll have more awareness of when people are arriving.
That's the coordination need for the Federal Government to help
play that role.
Importantly, we'll see gains. We'll see gains for the
country in the long term because immigrants do contribute
economically far more than they use in let's say public
benefits. That is going to strengthen our Nation.
That's an incredible opportunity that we should be able to
harness through real reforms to the system.
Ms. Jayapal. Real reforms that expand the lawful pathways
for people who are seeking protection, something I've been
saying for over 30 years. Congress hasn't updated our legal
immigration system to keep up with the demands and the needs of
the country.
So, the Biden Administration, like every administration
before, Republican and Democratic, has used parole, this idea
of parole. Can you discuss the importance of this parole
authority that, as I said, has been used by every President
over the last 70 years?
Mr. Chen. Yes. So, parole was created in the 1950's, dating
back to President Eisenhower. It was used to protect people
fleeing from Hungary, from Cuba during the cold war.
In the past 70 years, it's been used many times to
designate special populations for protection. Most recently,
President Biden has used it to protect Ukrainians, Afghans,
and, also, Cuban, Haitian, Nicaraguan, and Venezuelans.
The important piece of parole to recognize, is that it
alleviates pressure at the border. People coming in through
parole under the Uniting for Ukraine Program, during its first
14 months when people were eligible to apply for parole under
that program, we saw a decrease of almost everybody from
Ukraine coming at the Southern border, 99.9 percent during
those 14 months.
Similarly, they're not as significant results for the C, H,
and V countries. The fact is a safer, orderly, legal pathway to
allow people to come, alleviates pressure at the border and
will improve border processing. That's why this is so vital.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chen. Ms. Souza Egorov, thank
you so much for your moving testimony. I assume you spoke
highly of the Uniting for Ukraine Program.
I assume you support that program?
Ms. Souza Egorov. I support and I can tell you that the
process to vet my family--
Ms. Jayapal. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, that's--thank you.
Ms. Souza Egorov. Is going to be very expensive and it has
not happened yet. The Southern border--
Ms. Jayapal. I just wanted to know if you wanted to
continue that program, because Republicans have actually
refused to continue that program.
In H.R. 2 it would eliminate the Uniting for Ukraine
Program. I have an amendment to keep that in and Republicans
voted against it.
Thank you very much. Mr. Chair, I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Next is Mr. Biggs.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all the
witnesses. The interesting thing about parole is this, over the
last 25 years, before the Biden Administration, parole was
administered on average, 15 times a year.
The statute is very clear, it's meant to be a
particularized, individualized program. That is exactly what
Secretary Mayorkas confessed and admitted was the purpose of
parole when he testified.
Yet, in the last 18 months, over a million people have
received parole, parole status. You want to know what draws
people to the border?
It is catch and release programs like parole. Where they're
given documentation to go work for a couple of years and then
you lose track of them.
Because right now, right now as our witnesses testified,
the actual court dates for your asylum claim are nine, ten, and
12 years off. That's what's happening in Eagle Pass right now.
They're moving that far past.
It's good to see Chief Mello here. I had an opportunity to
meet with you last week. Thank you for taking time with us.
I just want to clarify, your Fire Department has five
ambulances. Is that right?
Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
Mr. Biggs. Of those five ambulances, how big is your
service area and the population for your Fire Department?
Mr. Mello. It's 12 hundred square miles and we cover 120
miles of river front.
Mr. Biggs. The population?
Mr. Mello. Population 70 thousand. It fluctuates from 70
thousand to 60, 65 thousand.
Mr. Biggs. Of your five--
Mr. Mello. Ten thousand more, 80 thousand.
Mr. Biggs. Of your five ambulances, you dedicate one almost
every day to solely to dealing with illegal migrants. Is that
right?
Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
Mr. Biggs. Occasionally you have to go beyond one and two,
or maybe more.
Mr. Mello. Of course. Yes, sir.
Mr. Biggs. That imposes constraints on how you service
legal residents of your service area?
Mr. Mello. Sometimes our residents are left without an
ambulance service.
Mr. Biggs. So, I also met with the head of the Fort Duncan
Hospital, Regional Hospital, last week as well. What he was
confiding in us was that the local residents, many are
wondering why those who are here in the country illegally are
getting treated ahead of them.
His response is, well, it's acuity. Of course, it's acuity.
Because those people are illegally in the country, they are
displacing the local residents regardless of acuity. Right?
Is that fair to say?
Mr. Mello. We have times where there's been a two-hour wait
for our patients inside the ambulance, just to try to get one
patient inside, a local resident inside the hospital.
Mr. Biggs. Yes. So, I appreciate what's going on in New
York. That sounds terrific. I want to put context to it as
well. You guys are dealing with it in New York.
A community of 70 thousand in Eagle Pass is dealing with
it, and you saw a massive surge of illegal migration over the
last
4-5 weeks, right?
Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
Mr. Biggs. I also went down to Lukeville. Lukeville has a
population of 35. In Lukeville, over the last three weeks, more
than 30 thousand illegal migrants entered.
There are no services in Lukeville, Ajo. Ajo which is kind
of where the CBP is centered there, they have no services.
It's overwhelming. I stood there and watched gaps in the
fence created by cartel coyotes who are coming and cutting the
fence. The day I was there they'd already repaired six
different locations.
We drove miles. There's no CBP even able to patrol. Why is
that? They were all at the processing center where I visited
and saw individuals from Guinea, Burkina Faso, Senegal, India,
and Pakistan.
I am stunned. I am stunned when I hear people say, well,
there is no--effectively we need to change the immigration
system.
You know what, Mr. Camarota, EMTALA. Who gets EMTALA? Who
can get EMTALA?
Do you have to be a citizen? Does anybody ask you if you
are a citizen before you get EMTALA benefits when you go to the
hospital?
Mr. Camarota. No. Obviously if it's emergency care, anyone
immediately gets benefits.
Mr. Biggs. It's not just emergency care anymore. The ED is
now used as a general and primary physician. You go in because
you have the flu. You don't go to your doctor, because these
individuals don't have doctors.
I'd be very curious to know what your study would reveal,
excuse me. I'm sure it would reveal with regard to the use of
EMTALA benefits, because trust me, in Eagle Pass, they are
using EMTALA benefits to go in there and overwhelm that
hospital.
I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Nadler.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chen, since the Spring of 2022, Governor Abbott of
Texas has bussed over 90,000 asylum seekers to cities across
the United States, sending approximately one-third of them to
New York City. He has done this without any coordination with
the receiving cities.
You touched on this in your opening statement. In fact, it
was yesterday that a CBS article highlighted how Texas
sabotaged efforts by nonprofits to create a more orderly
system. I would like to submit that article for the record.
Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
Mr. Nadler. Mr. Chen, how does this lack of coordination
make it harder for nonprofits and cities to help welcome and
integrate migrants into their communities?
Mr. Chen. Thank you for the question. I think the main
issue here is the surprise factor. When unannounced buses are
coming at different times, sometimes late at night, and the
welcoming cities or service providers are not aware when they
are going to come, it is just going to make it more difficult
for a shelter to make sure there is adequate bed space.
For other service providers providing perhaps emergency
medical care or other needs, it is going to be much more
challenging for them, and that is why there needs to be better
coordination and support from the Federal Government like the
Shelter and Services Program that provides assistance to fund
local provision of services.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you. Over a million people are in the
asylum backlog. The average adjudication wait time for the
asylum application is now over four years. Mr. Biggs pointed
out that it takes years to process asylum claims. The Biden
Administration's supplemental funding request included a
request for funding to hire more immigration judges and asylum
officers.
How would hiring additional adjudicators help tackle the
backlog, speed up processing, and improve conditions at the
border?
Mr. Chen. It would help in a very direct way. AILA supports
the request in the Biden supplemental funding request for 1,600
more asylum officers to be hired. Having more asylum officers
will speed up the process for screening cases of people who are
asking for asylum. That is simply going to make it more
expeditious and also fairer for the system overall.
What it will do is that kind of a benefit will inure to the
overall system, because what we see now is that USCIS doesn't
have enough case officers to handle other kinds of cases, such
as employment-based benefits, family based benefits. So, we see
delays across the board unless you fund USCIS to have enough
asylum officers and other case officers.
Mr. Nadler. So, this would greatly reduce what Republicans
refer to as ``catch and release''?
Mr. McClintock. It would help avoid the need for people
that are coming not to be able to be screened quickly enough
and to wait for their cases for a long period of time.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you. Mr. Chen, for much of our history,
our country welcomed immigrants with open arms and in very
large numbers. In fact, when Ellis Island was operational, in
one year alone it processed over a million people. If we
compare that level of intake to today's population of New York
City, it will mean that Ellis Island admitted the equivalent of
17,770 people a day, and 6\1/2\ million people in a year. Such
high numbers of arrivals didn't negatively impact the city
economically. For much of the 20th century, countless
industries were fueled by the influx of immigrants.
Were those who arrived through Ellis Island able to work as
soon as they got to the United States? What has changed between
then and now?
Mr. Chen. That is the lynchpin issue that you just touched
on there, sir. The fact is that immigrants arriving at Ellis
Island were able to work immediately. Asylum seekers now, and
many immigrants who are coming, are not eligible to work
initially, and they need to apply for work permits for those
who are. That delay makes it harder for those recent arrivals
to become self-sufficient quickly.
Immigrants can contribute tremendously to the country. If
they are able to sustain themselves, they will get out of
shelters more quickly and be able to support themselves and
their families.
What we have seen statistically is estimates that if asylum
seekers, the numbers were to decrease by 10 percent, you would
see about a $9 billion loss in overall economic benefit to the
country over about a five-year period. That is further
indication of how much asylum seekers and immigrants coming
will contribute if they are allowed to work.
Mr. Nadler. Now, how long do asylum seekers have to wait
before they may apply for employment authorization? How does
this waiting period hurt employers and asylum seekers in the
United States? Wouldn't you think that asylum seekers should be
given work authorization immediately on arrival?
Mr. Chen. So, asylum seekers typically have to wait 180
days, six months, before they are allowed to work coming into
the country. That period means that asylum seekers aren't able
to become self-sufficient as quickly as they otherwise might
be. The important step here is to be able to have asylum
seekers apply more quickly.
Actually, Congresswoman Chellie Pingree has the Asylum
Seeker Work Authorization Act that has supports that would
enable that. It would also make sure that the period during
which they could work would match the time during which they
are waiting for their asylum application to be granted, rather
than having to apply to renew those work permits on a regular
basis.
The fact is if it takes four years for somebody to get
their asylum case looked at and granted, you don't want them
having to renew regularly that work permit application, because
it is actually taking about 16 months right now to renew work
permits. So, those are all ways to speed up the system, make it
work more efficiently, and make sure that people that are here
are able to work and contribute.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Chair Jordan.
Chair Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Souza Egorov, thank you. Well, thank you all for being
here.
Ms. Egorov, I want to talk more about the children and what
is happening to kids in the New York schools. In your
testimony, you said at your last meeting you had a mother talk
about how school buses are overcrowded, that her son has only
been on time to school I think a couple times in the entire
school year, which is unbelievable.
You said migrant students are exempt from vaccines. You
have had some outbreak of something here. Safety agents
training to protect kids at school has been curtailed. Students
with disabilities, their schools have been cut $1 million per
school. This is after the kids have just gone through the whole
COVID experience and everything else.
Now, we have seen in the news the last couple of days what
has happened with the one school where the kids--go home and
learn from home. We are going to put migrants in the schools.
So, this to me seem to be the issue that I think is really
hitting a nerve with the American people, like this is
happening to our kids.
How many migrant students are in the New York public
school's system this school year, new migrant students are in
the system?
Ms. Souza Egorov. I don't have that specific number. What I
can tell is that in my district I believe the last number was
around 5,000. My district is two-thirds of Manhattan. In my
district, we have a lot of hotel rooms that are being used as
shelters and where families are prioritized. So, we have a
disproportionate number of families as in the shelters, because
of course they are--
Chair Jordan. The comptroller--in your testimony, you gave
a quote from the comptroller, and he says, ``12,000 migrant
students in the New York City public schools since June 30th.''
Is that an accurate number, in your judgment?
Ms. Souza Egorov. I believe so, yes.
Chair Jordan. Twelve thousand new students brought into the
schools in just the last seven months. That seems to be--
Ms. Souza Egorov. Yes.
Chair Jordan. Do you have children in the New York public
schools?
Ms. Souza Egorov. I do have.
Chair Jordan. Have you seen an impact with your kids in the
type of education they are getting?
Ms. Souza Egorov. What I have seen is an impact in the
entire district. So, from the buses that are running late, in
particular, just principals are very concerned because they
never know when they are going to get new students.
I am the founding board chair of a charter school in
Brooklyn that was specifically designed for students who don't
speak English. I know how much it takes--
Chair Jordan. Yep.
Ms. Souza Egorov. --to teach children who don't speak
English at home, like my kids, to learn English. It is very
specifically designed work. You need qualified teachers. Even
if we have the resources, there are just not enough ESL
qualified teachers in New York City to be hired.
The other thing that I think is very important is the
safety issue, because this is the no. 1 thing that I hear from
parents in my community. They want more school safety agents in
their buildings. There is a lack of school safety agents.
The fact that Mayor Adams had to cancel this class, which I
can't tell you how desperately needed it is, we have had after
COVID a dramatic increase in bullying and violence in our
schools. I am the Chair of the School Safety Committee, so I
hear the most extreme cases in my district of kids who are
getting a safety transfer, where they want to go to another
school because they don't feel safe.
The no. 1 thing that we want is more school safety agents,
and this has been cut. He said that now parents will have to
volunteer, which we are not qualified to be school safety
agents. We don't have the training, and many parents don't have
the capacity.
Chair Jordan. Should the Federal Government stop the
practice of releasing illegal migrants into the country? Should
we say no to illegal--no more illegal migrants allowed in the
country? Should we do that?
Ms. Souza Egorov. I think we should follow Federal law.
Chair Jordan. Yes.
Ms. Souza Egorov. I think we should follow Federal law.
Chair Jordan. OK.
Ms. Souza Egorov. What I can tell you is that my family, we
have been through many, many process of getting a visa, have
been a student visa, a work visa. My family just became
refugee, and the vetting process is extensive. My husband's 85-
year-old grandparents who lost everything they had when Russia
invaded Ukraine had to wait many months. We had to provide
extensive documentation to be able to get the visa.
So, I think legal immigrants like myself look at this
process and ask why there is this double standard, why we are
not asking any kind of documentation. There is not any kind of
vetting process.
Chair Jordan. Yes. You did it the right way, and you are
feeling it personally. You did it the right way, and yet your
kids, who need the services in the school, are being denied
that because of folks who aren't doing it in the legal and
appropriate way.
How long have you been on the Community Education Council?
Ms. Souza Egorov. It is my third year. I am on my second
term.
Chair Jordan. You are the vice president of that group?
Ms. Souza Egorov. Yes. I have been elected by the school
parents in District 2.
Chair Jordan. Well, I am sure they appreciate, as we do,
your hard work on behalf of kids, and particularly at this
troublesome time. Thank you very much.
I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Correa.
Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Before I start, I would
like to submit for the record two articles, one entitled,
``Shut Out of DACA and Traditional Jobs: Young Immigrants Start
Businesses to get ahead''; second, ``What Rising Immigration
Really Means for California's Economy.''
I can submit those for the record, sir?
Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
Mr. Correa. First, I want to thank all our witnesses here
today for being here to give us your perspective. Immigration
is the issue of America. We are all immigrants here today. I
look around. None of you here are natural American Indians. All
our ancestors came to this country. God knows two or three
generations ago what the newspapers would have said. I think if
we look into those newspapers, the rhetoric was probably the
same.
Mr. Camarota, you started talking a little bit about the
cost-benefit. I would like to see more research into that,
because California today, we are the fourth largest economy in
the world, and we are a net donor of revenue to the Federal
Government. That stopped temporarily during COVID.
We have probably the most manufacturing in the United
States, and I can tell you who works at those jobs. OK? A lot
of our farm industry, ag [agriculture], relies on undocumented
workers. You are not going to deport them.
This country, as a national defense policy, we need to be
independent and strong in two areas: (1) Energy production, no
more OPEC oil embargoes and (2) food production. Heaven forbid
if we have to import our food one of these days. That second
one, food; that is agriculture.
In 2019, I got a phone call from a lobbyist on the poultry
industry. In 2019, there was an immigration raid in
Mississippi, picked up 680 undocumented workers at a poultry
plant. You know what that did to that county? Brought it to a
standstill. This lobbyist for the poultry industry wanted my
help to keep those workers going. So, we do need to look at
both sides of the issue and really deal with the facts.
Now, Ms. Souza, I heard some of your comments. I am
probably the only Member in Congress that was in Tijuana,
Mexico, inspecting, touring the Ukrainian refugee camps. I saw
those refugees being processed. You know how long it would take
them to get processed? About two or three days. You know where
those camps are at now? They are closed. You know why they are
closed? Because now a Ukrainian asylum seeker can apply
directly from Europe to come to the U.S.
One of my colleagues the other day was saying we can use
Ukrainians as opposed to the others, but the reason he was
saying that--and I don't think he understood what he was
talking about--was Ukrainians can get a work permit right away.
These other folks can't.
So, we have to really look and drill down into the facts to
figure out what a good immigration policy needs to be for the
United States. It is not zero. It is not all. It is a good
position for this country.
Talk about farm workers. Let's talk about Silicon Valley in
California. We still do some ass kicking over there, high tech,
research and development, and biotech. We are the world's
leaders. You know what those workers--you know where they are
from, a lot of them? Indian Americans and Asian Americans.
Silicon Valley, if you talk to that industry, they can't get
enough workers from there. We need immigrants. What we need is
an adjustment to our immigration policy.
When it comes to asylum seekers, Mr. Camarota, you talked
about the U.S. being in unprecedented territory. Twenty percent
of our population now foreign born. Unprecedented. Used to be
like 19. Now, it is 20 percent. A hundred years ago it was 19.
Mr. Camarota. The peak is 14.8 in 1890.
Mr. Correa. The numbers I saw was--well, OK, we will buy
your numbers. Are some of those immigrants participating in our
Nation's military?
Mr. Camarota. Are you talking about the whole foreign born?
There should be no illegal immigrants in the military.
Mr. Correa. They can't be.
Mr. Camarota. But, legal immigrants are.
Mr. Correa. A lot of
Green cardholders are part of our military.
Mr. Camarota. Absolutely.
Mr. Correa. A lot of undocumented immigrants want to join
the military and they can't. So, the fact that you have such a
high number doesn't mean it is bad for the U.S. I bet you if
those undocumented could, they would join the military, and
they would be true Americans.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am out of time, and I yield.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Mr. Tiffany.
Mr. Tiffany. Thank you. Mr. Chen, so let's talk about
coordination with local municipalities, right? You believe in
that, that there should be coordination that goes on when
resettling refugees or asylum seekers, anything like that,
correct, with a local community?
Mr. Chen. Coordination generally will improve their
processing, yes, for both refugees and asylum seekers.
Mr. Tiffany. Isn't it a requirement in Federal law that you
have to consult and coordinate with States and local
municipalities from the Federal level? Isn't that correct?
Mr. Chen. I am not sure about that.
Mr. Tiffany. So, you don't know that part of the law? Is
that it?
Mr. Chen. I just don't know that specific question.
Mr. Tiffany. Yes. OK. Because it is required to do that,
and it is currently not going on by organizations like World
Relief and others in my home State of Wisconsin, where they are
not coordinating, they are not working with local
municipalities, and very unfortunate.
Mr. Chen. If I may comment, sir, my understanding is many
of the Federal refugee organizations that work with the Federal
Government are typically in very close coordination with all
the State agencies that support that. It is a State, local, and
Federal partnership with local providers, like World Relief
that you mentioned. I would be very surprised if there wasn't
that kind of coordination, so that is an area that perhaps we
will work on.
Mr. Tiffany. You are about to be surprised, because maybe
they are talking to the State, but the Federal and State is not
talking to local municipalities. In fact, they excluded
Chippewa County from those discussions in bringing refugees to
Western Wisconsin.
You said remove those who are not eligible in a safe and
humane manner. That is part of your--just a small segment of
some of your testimony. Remove those who are not eligible in a
safe and humane manner. Can you give me an example of somebody
you believe should be removed?
Mr. Chen. So, we have a very thorough immigration law
process that begins with asylum seekers. For example, if they
are going to seek relief--
Mr. Tiffany. Give me a specific example of somebody that
you think should be removed.
Mr. Chen. If there is a full--
Mr. Tiffany. I am going to move on to the next question.
Should everyone get an attorney? That is what I heard in your
testimony. Anyone that comes to our border, they should get an
attorney. Is that right?
Mr. Chen. So, legal representation has been shown to
greatly improve both the fairness of the system and the
efficiency. If you have a lawyer--
Mr. Tiffany. So, the American taxpayer should pay for the
lawyers also. Not only should they pay for the hospitals, not
only should they pay for the schools, not only should they pay
the SNAP benefits, but they should also pay for the lawyers to
allow them, as people from outside the United States, to be
able to come into America.
Mr. Chen. It makes the system work much more efficiently if
a judge doesn't have to explain to an individual that is
appearing in front of the judge what the legal process is. It
will make the entire process--
Mr. Tiffany. Thank you.
Mr. Chen. --more efficient, and that is what we are about
here is making sure the system is more efficient, fair, and
orderly. That will help improve the processing at the border.
Mr. Tiffany. Is it ever fair at--
Mr. Chen. That is what we are all about.
Mr. Tiffany. Is it ever fair at this point?
Ms. Egorov, you were cutoff by the Ranking Member when you
were going to complete your answer on the vetting of
Ukrainians. Is there anything you wanted to add in regard to
that, to give context to what you were about to say?
Ms. Souza Egorov. So, my husband's grandparents were 85
years old, and they lived in Kharkov, Ukraine. They only left
their house when it became unlivable for them. So, they only
left their house and tried to come to America when there was a
bomb dropped in the courtyard. It killed eight of their
neighbors, and it blew out the windows of their apartment in
the middle of the Ukrainian winter. So, they were literally
freezing to death.
They would have never been able to cross the border. So, I
really think that the process of accepting refugees should
accept the most vulnerable refugees who are vast majority women
and children.
Mr. Tiffany. So, there should be some context in regard to
this vetting.
Ms. Souza Egorov. Yes. They made their way to the border
with Poland, and they waited there for a very long time. Our
grandmother did not have a passport because she had never left
Ukraine in her life, and so she had to provide documentation to
prove that she was from Ukraine. Then we had to provide
documentation that we would support them here.
So, there was a long process. I think it was about three or
four months at least.
Mr. Tiffany. I really want to get to another question for
you here. You cited public health concerns. Are there many
parents that you are working with that are really concerned
about public health issues? We are hearing about diseases that
are coming from outside of America to places like New York
City. Are you hearing those concerns?
Ms. Souza Egorov. There was one specific outbreak of
varicella in my district last year. So, the city health
commissioner sent a letter to all health officials in New York
City saying that the vaccination rates in the countries that
are sending immigrants here is much lower than in the U.S. So,
there is this concern.
I think biggest problem is the double standard. My
community were just blocked from entering school buildings for
two years if you didn't have the COVID vaccine. Students
couldn't play sports, even outside, if they didn't have the
COVID vaccine. Like parents who couldn't take the COVID vaccine
for health reasons, not even ideological, health reasons,
couldn't see their children's graduation.
Then now, suddenly, anybody who arrives can get in without
any vaccine, with vaccines that we have decades of data. I
think that is a problem of trust now in terms of the double
standard. We just went through so many rules.
I am sorry.
Mr. Tiffany. No, no. Thank you very much.
I yield back. The double standard, Mr. Chair.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you for a unanimous consent request.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. McClintock. Ms. Jayapal.
Ms. Jayapal. I ask unanimous consent to enter into the
record the following reports showing the economic benefits of
immigration: A report by Giovanni Perry, ``The Economic
Benefits of Immigration''; a report by the National Bureau of
Economic Research, ``The Economic Contribution of Unauthorized
Workers and Industry Analysis''; a report by the Institute on
Taxation and Economic Policy, ``Undocumented Immigrants' State
and Local Contributions''; three reports by New American
Economy, ``Examining the Economic Contributions of Undocumented
Immigrants by Country of Origin,'' ``Keeping Medicare Solvent:
How Immigrants Subsidize Medicare's Trust Fund for All U.S.
Seniors,'' and a third one, ``Immigrants Contribute More in
Insurance Premiums than they Receive in Benefits''; a report by
the George W. Bush Institute, ``Benefits of Immigration
Outweigh the Costs''; a report by the Bipartisan Policy Center,
``Immigrants and Public Benefits: What Does the Research
Say?''; a report by Forward U.S., ``The Positive Economic
Impact of Immigration''; a report by the University of
Pennsylvania, Wharton Business School, ``The Effects of
Immigration on the U.S. Economy''; and a report by the Center
on Budget and Policy Priorities, ``Immigrants Contribute
Greatly to the U.S. Economy Despite the Trump Administration's
Public Charge Rule Rationale.''
Mr. McClintock. Just for clarification, are those reports
on immigrants, not illegal immigrants?
Ms. Jayapal. These are reports on immigrants and the
economic benefits of immigration--
Mr. McClintock. Do they--
Ms. Jayapal. --which include documented and undocumented
immigrants.
Mr. McClintock. Right. Which is what the Democrats love to
do is to--
Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Chair, are we having a colloquy? Because I
am happy to engage in it.
Mr. McClintock. No. I just want to--
Ms. Jayapal. I just--
Mr. McClintock. No.
Ms. Jayapal. I had a unanimous consent request.
Mr. McClintock. I just want to clarify in--
Ms. Jayapal. I want to clarify that undocumented--
Mr. McClintock. I appreciate that.
Ms. Jayapal. --immigrants and documented immigrants
contribute to the U.S. economy.
Mr. McClintock. I want to--
Ms. Jayapal. Any indications that they do not is excluding
the contributions of undocumented immigrants as well as
documented immigrants.
Mr. McClintock. I just wanted to be clear that you are
confusing the two. Thank you. Is there is there any objection?
Ms. Jayapal. I am not confusing the two.
Mr. Chair, I am including both, because both contribute.
Mr. McClintock. Well, we will get to that in a moment. Is
there any objection? Seeing none, the unanimous consent request
is approved.
Mr. McClintock. Ms. Escobar.
Ms. Escobar. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think it is really
important for all of us to take a step back and recognize what
is really happening here. This is another example of the
Republican majority's efforts to continue to demonize
immigrants. That is what this hearing is about.
The hearings that we have been having on this Subcommittee
haven't been focused on leading us to a solution or finding
bipartisan compromise. Unfortunately, the hearings that this
Subcommittee has been having have focused on trying to paint
the picture for the American people that immigrants should be
feared, immigrants should be hated, immigrants are bad, when we
know that the contrary is true.
I think it is really important for us to acknowledge some
truths if we are going to find a solution, because we
absolutely do need a solution to this very significant domestic
challenge.
Immigrants make our country better. One of our--Ms. Egorov,
you are an example of immigrants improving our country, adding
to this country. Our Ranking Member is another perfect example
of that. The examples are all around us. They help our economy.
They are part of the fabric of our Nation and of our
communities, and they represent a net positive to who we are as
Americans.
Another truth is that the status quo is absolutely
unacceptable, and it should be unacceptable to all of us,
whether we are Republicans or whether we are Democrats. I
represent El Paso, Texas. My border community has seen some of
the highest encounters with asylum seekers, with refugees, with
people fleeing their homeland trying to get to safety and
security in ours.
I am a third generation El Pasoan. I am the only Member of
this Subcommittee and this Committee who was born and raised on
the border, raised her children on the border, am so proud to
be a border resident. I will tell you my community has seen
some significant challenges as a result of the really
significant number of people who are fleeing their homeland.
I think it is important for us to recognize it is not just
a U.S. issue. We are seeing more people leaving their country
across the globe than probably ever before. Certainly, in the
Western hemisphere this is historic, at least in my
recollection and for my generation.
The response to such a significant challenge shouldn't be
to demonize immigrants, but it also shouldn't be to refuse to
compromise. We have to compromise and come together if we are
going to find the solution.
We should recognize the opportunity in this moment. We have
eight million unfilled jobs in the country--Eight million. We
are not achieving all we could achieve as a country without
immigrants, and we can't do it.
Now, my Republican colleagues will point to H.R. 2, their
border bill, as the solution. Guess what? Their border bill is
a fantasy, and any of them who have taken the time to read it
would recognize it. Any reporter who has taken the time to read
it would recognize it.
The fundamental component of H.R. 2, the Republican
solution, is that Mexico will accept all migrants that we expel
from our country. That has never happened. It will never
happen. So, while they continue to say, ``Oh, we have got our
solution, H.R. 2,'' it is a farce. It is a fig leaf to hide the
fact that they bring no real solutions to the table on their
own.
I would like to share with all my colleagues on this dais
that there is a solution. It is called the Dignity Act. It is
the first bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform bill that
addresses the border and beyond. It lives up to our values
without the egregious cruelty championed by many on the other
side of the aisle.
It provides legal protections for immigrants that are here,
and it addresses the biggest challenge we have at the border,
which is unfair to migrants. The current--the status quo is
unfair to migrants, unfair to Federal law enforcement, unfair
to border communities, unfair to receiving communities.
It is time that Congress does its job and engages in
bipartisan compromise and finds a real fix, and I would
encourage everyone to look at the Dignity Act.
Mr. Chair, I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Ms. Spartz.
Ms. Spartz. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am not sure, but I
might be actually the only Member of Congress who actually
emigrated as an adult, not with parents as a baby, as a child,
and brought by the family, but actually as an adult at the age
of 21 made the decision to legally emigrate to the United
States from Ukraine.
So, I understand the contribution of what immigrants have
done to this country. We are a country of immigrants, but
country of legal immigration and laws.
What I want to talk to you a little bit, you mentioned
about your husband's parents coming from Ukraine. Do you
believe it is happening right now, since we have illegal
immigration overwhelming our system, somebody with legitimate
concerns?
I hear from a lot, including Ukrainians, that come in
through the program that they encounter a lot of challenges
with that, because there is no capacity for legal immigration,
and a lot of times it is becoming perverse. If you come here
legally--as you mentioned, my husband had to sign off on a lot
of papers that I am not going to be burdening society. I never
took any benefits. I came for opportunities and hard work, not
for welfare.
Now, we are creating a system where a lot of people come
illegal, and get benefits much better than if you come here
legally. You really kind of disincentivize going through the
legal system.
So, do you believe, Ms. Egorov, that what is happening
right now, it actually hurts legitimate asylum seekers,
legitimate people avoiding persecution and have refugees, or
try to come here to contribute to society? What are your
thoughts on that?
Ms. Souza Egorov. I think absolutely. The problem is that
the vast majority of refugees that have been vetted by the
United Nations are women and children from just three
countries, right? Ukraine, Syria, and Afghanistan. This is not
the same population that we are seeing coming through the
Southern border.
So, we are not accepting the most vulnerable refugees.
Based on public data that I found in New York City, 80 percent
of the new migrants in New York City are single adults. If 50
percent of the refugees are women and children, there is a
disconnect. We are not--the most vulnerable cannot even make
the cross in the Southern border, because it is very dangerous.
So, the most vulnerable will never be able to cross the border.
Ms. Spartz. There is the challenge, and I actually just
went to the border, and it was mostly adult males who were
going there.
Mr. Chen, you talk about processing at the border. Would
you agree that we should have immediately determined,
regardless how we believe in asylum standard, determination
right at the border, and denying entry the people that are
illegitimately applying for asylum? Do you support adjudication
and denying entry immediately at the border?
Mr. Chen. Thank you for the question. I don't think that
would be practically possible, to make a determination for
asylum so quickly. Asylum is a very--
Ms. Spartz. So, why do you want all these judges, then? If
they cannot adjudicate immediately, why do they want them just
to provide more papers and wait more years? Why do you even--if
you cannot do that, what is the point of your wanting to have
more judges, if you cannot have immediate adjudication?
Mr. Chen. So, there aren't judges typically sitting at the
border region to be able to--
Ms. Spartz. You say we need to have more. So, what would
they be doing there, just giving more papers? What would they
be doing if they were not adjudicating and immediately deciding
if entry would be allowed? What are they for then?
Mr. Chen. So, I think we completely agree here about the
importance of having an efficient and orderly process that
quickly can screen people like asylum seekers for eligibility.
The question is just, how do you do that operationally to make
it effective?
Ms. Spartz. You would not disagree that we should have
immediately adjudication and making decision at the border,
regardless how we feel about the standard, because HR-2
increases standard, and it is actually a reasonable standard.
More likely than not, it is still 50/50 standard, so it is
pretty still high standard, considering how many people are
abusing the system, and legitimate asylum seekers actually
get--that truly can be prosecuted and killed by their
government have a hard time now because there is no
prioritization.
So, you think that should be happening at the border and we
should deny entry?
Mr. Chen. So, what I don't think would work is--I think you
used the word ``immediately'' a couple of times. It takes time
for an asylum seeker to understand and explain his or her case
to an asylum officer.
Ms. Spartz. It is OK maybe in real time, but they would not
be allowed entry into the United States, right? So, they can
stay in the detention facilities, but ultimately, they would
not be given notice to appear and go in the country. Is that
correct? You agree with that?
Mr. Chen. I am not--that is the process right now is that
somebody who is seeking--
Ms. Spartz. No, now they are leaving, because they don't
have ability, we are so overwhelmed. You said like cartels, if
we have it, would actually be preying on people, but aren't
they preying on people right now? I mean, have you been at the
border and seen what is happening?
The situation now, you believe they are not preyed on by
cartels? It is huge. Women and children, and we have people
pretty much being abused.
Mr. Chen. I have been to the border, and people who are
seeking asylum, people who are here waiting at the border, I
was just at the Nogales port this fall, people are waiting for
weeks, sleeping at those turnstiles, to be able to gain entry
because there aren't enough capacity by--
Ms. Spartz. Because cartels are abusing the system.
Mr. Chen. --to be able to do that.
Ms. Spartz. I yield back. My time has expired. Using them
as pawns. I yield back.
Mr. Chen. If I could just expand my answer?
Mr. McClintock. At the request of the minority, Ms. Ross is
next.
Ms. Ross. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and to the
Ranking Member. I request unanimous consent to submit for the
record the New York Times article, ``GOP Governors Vow to Close
Doors to Syrian Refugees.''
Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
Ms. Ross. Thank you very much. I want to pick up a little
bit on the conversation that my colleague, Representative
Escobar, had about how we need to do both deal with the border
and deal with legal immigration.
I represent North Carolina's 2nd Congressional District in
the research triangle. I want you to know I rarely hear about
the border from my constituents, but I know because of my role
in Congress and on this Subcommittee how important it is to
deal with the border.
I do want you to know that I hear from employers in my
district every day about the need to fix our broken immigration
system and allow more people to come here and work, either
while they are waiting for their immigration status to be taken
care of, or under a legal immigration process which has a
decades-long backlog.
I heard this from our Chamber of Commerce. I heard this
from the Farm Bureau. The no. 1 issue for the Farm Bureau and
agriculture is the no. 1 industry in North Carolina. I hear
this from the hotel and lodging association, and I hear this
from the medical community. I want to bring up, because we are
talking about social services, some facts about our workers in
the healthcare industry.
According to a 2021 report from the Center for American
Progress, approximately 365,000 undocumented immigrants worked
in healthcare during the COVID-19 pandemic. In addition to
providing needed care, they cleaned hospital rooms, served
meals, managed front desks, and more. These are not the highly
skilled immigrants that the tech industry is looking for.
Rather than draining our social services, these individuals
played, and continue to play, essential roles in our healthcare
services. They did so at a time when healthcare and other
social service sectors are struggling with worker shortages. Of
course, this is in addition to the taxes they pay into the
system for the most part they cannot access, particularly
through Social Security.
Imagine the tremendous impact these workers could have on
our social services if our country expanded opportunities for
these individuals to obtain legal status and harness their full
potential and talents. Right now, we have low unemployment and
massive demand for workers that U.S. citizens alone cannot
meet, yet we put up roadblocks in front of immigrants to work
here.
Our legal immigration system has not been updated for over
30 years. That means our legal immigration levels are still
where they were when we--few people could even use the
internet.
I would like to address a couple questions to Mr. Chen at
my last minute. Are our current temporary worker programs
adequate to meet this demand?
Mr. Chen. Thank you for the question. I would say our
temporary worker permit programs--sorry, employment
authorization programs for workers and for permanent are not
adequate, and we have demand far exceeding the need for H-1B,
H-2A, agriculture programs, across the board.
Ms. Ross. Can you discuss how the creation of additional
legal pathways can impact the numbers we are seeing at the
border?
Mr. Chen. So, expanding legal pathways would do
tremendously, in terms of improving both the pressures at the
border to alleviate, that as the parole program has done, but
also to address the kinds of important employment and business
issues that you have just been describing that are impacting
the country.
The fact is that both Republican and Democratic leaders
across the country, and businesses--the U.S. Chamber of
Commerce--are asking for more legal pathways to enable people
to come here. We have had a lot of talk about people not coming
or coming in the right way. The problem is we don't have
adequate right ways for people to come exactly to meet the
kinds of needs you are talking about here, Congresswoman, to
meet the needs of the country, both for families and
businesses, that would make America stronger.
Ms. Ross. Thank you very much, and I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Nehls.
Mr. Nehls. Mr. Chair, thank you.
The Ranking Member of the Full Committee, Mr. Nadler, who
was here earlier, in his testimony he stated that Governor
Abbott has sent--from Texas has sent 80,000 of these illegal
immigrants to New York on buses. I personally think that is a
beautiful thing. I think it should be 180,000. As a matter of
fact, I am willing to help pay for some of the buses to send
more and more to these welcoming cities, these sanctuary
cities.
Mayor Adams now says he is overwhelmed. He is overwhelmed.
Other cities, Chicago, we are overwhelmed. Heck, we sent not
even 100 or so to Martha's Vineyard, we have got to call the
police. We have got a crisis.
Texas, the counties in Texas, those municipalities along
the Southern border, have been overwhelmed for the past three
years, and you heard nothing from the Democrats. Nothing. It is
all OK. It is not my problem. I am out here on the cushy East
coast. So, they start bussing them up there. It was a beautiful
thing.
Now, the American people are paying attention. They are
paying attention to the Biden border crisis. The Democrats
didn't care. They didn't care about the border crisis for the
last three years of this Administration, and now they care.
Really, folks? Really? Do you think the Democrats truly care?
I find the timing of it interesting. We are 10 months away
from a general election. Joe's approval rating is in the
toilet. It is 33 percent. You can get online and look at all
these residents of all these large cities, New York, Chicago,
they are a little grumpy. They are a little grumpy. They are
saying, ``Mayor, what the hell is happening to our city here?''
They are paying attention. They are expressing their outrage,
and now the Democrats want to secure the Southern border.
My advice is really plain and simple. My advice to the
Democrats: Call Joe. Call Joe. Use the Executive Orders today
to secure our Southern border, because if you don't, Joe, the
American people will act and Donald Trump will fix it again.
Joe Biden does not need Congress. He doesn't need Congress
to do anything to address this crisis. Trump didn't have the
support from Congress to address the border. He did it through
21 Executive Orders and 25 Presidential Memoranda. His policies
kept the American people safe.
Now, the dishonest media out there, they are everywhere,
the greatest threat to our country, the dishonest media. They
won't hold the Biden Administration accountable. They will
deflect. They will say it is Congress--it is Congress that
hasn't done anything to secure the Southern border.
Congress, as a whole, has done nothing to address the
Southern border. Joe Biden did it all by himself through
Executive Order. He took all of Trump's policies and just
reversed them all when it was the safest country in decades. We
had more border security under Donald Trump than we had in
decades.
So, no, folks, let's be honest with each other. Nothing is
going to get done. The Democrats don't want to have anything to
do with H.R. 2. They have already said it. Joe doesn't want to
fix the crisis at our Southern border, because it is all by
design. Joe puts America last. He puts the American people
last.
I have about another minute and a half. Mr. Camarota, are
you familiar with the public charge rule, my friend?
Mr. Camarota. Yes.
Mr. Nehls. Explain it. Explain that for the sixth grader,
yes.
Mr. Camarota. Well, very briefly, it is the idea that we
try to evaluate new legal immigrants, so that they are not
going to end up on public benefits. If it looks like you are,
it is possible in that process they will deny you a green card,
which is permanent residency.
Mr. Nehls. Trump is just looking out for America, like he
always has. He defined ``public charge'' as an immigrant who
receives one or more designated public benefits for more than
12 months within a 36-month period, rightfully included SNAP
benefits, housing vouchers, Medicaid as benefits that would
disqualify an immigrant from receiving a green card. To me, it
is a no brainer. If you need two of these, you should be
considered a public charge.
Is it true in September 2022 that the Biden Administration
published a new public charge inadmissibly regulations that
reversed Trump's public charge regulations?
Mr. Camarota. Yes. They disbanded an expansive idea and
just made it a couple of programs.
Mr. Nehls. Do you think it incentivizes more people to come
to the United States? Hey, I am from Guatemala. I am going to
come. I am going to get my food, housing, healthcare,
everything. I am going to come, and I am going to come now. I
have been invited by this President.
Mr. Camarota. It could. We estimate that 52 percent of
legal immigrant households access one or more welfare programs.
So, those rates are high.
Mr. Nehls. We are $34 trillion in debt.
I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Ms. Jackson Lee.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much. The last time I
recall studying civics or walking through these halls I reflect
on the fact that we are the United States of America. What
happens to one State or one community can happen to another.
So, I am not proud of the idea of migrants, babies, families
who are fleeing true persecution, to be distributed across the
Nation without regard for their humanity. I am a problem
solver, which is what this Committee should be doing.
So, I want to pose my question to Chief Mello to be able to
say, first, I am years-long Member of the Congressional Fire
Caucus. I am a great champion of firefighters. I served on the
Homeland Security Committee, served, and fought mightily for
the benefits for firefighters and their families after 9/11. We
finally got some relief.
I know that during the American Rescue Plan during COVID
funding came to local communities; did it not?
Mr. Mello. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Those were Federal dollars.
Mr. Mello. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Were those dollars welcomed?
Mr. Mello. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Some of them I hope got to you
firefighters and EMS who never stopped during that crisis. Did
some of them come your way, sir, or in your community?
Mr. Mello. Some of that money came into my community, yes,
ma'am.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you so very much. So, I am committed
to getting you dollars. We have had a plan that the President
has put forward of $13.6 billion. That is your money, part of
it, Federal dollars that would come directly to Eagle Pass and
the Chief, who I could tell the emotion in your voice as you
had to deal with a little three-month-old that didn't make it.
Is that what you said, a three-month-old didn't make it?
Mr. Mello. The three-month-old and the three-year-old, they
were both brothers. They didn't make it.
Ms. Jackson Lee. They didn't make it.
Mr. Mello. No, ma'am.
Ms. Jackson Lee. I can imagine your men and women dealing
with that.
So, let me just share with you and let you know quickly
that $13.6 billion, which has been held up by Republicans,
would be Border Patrol agents, cutting edge inspection
machines, 1,000 law enforcement personnel, investigative
capacity, 1,600 additional asylum officers, 375 new immigration
judges, additional grants to local governments and nonprofits.
Sir, that is you directly.
Critical border management activities, expansion of lawful
pathways, not for everyone, but I do think you see some
individuals--and you are not an immigration chief, but you
might answer this--that may have a reason for asylum. Just in
your own course, have you seen those kinds of people?
Mr. Mello. In my personal opinion, I have seen, yes, I have
seen some families that would benefit the United States, but I
have seen several that are individuals that would not benefit
the U.S.
Ms. Jackson Lee. We need to make sure that those
individuals do not come here to do harm. I understand that, and
that is what this would do. Support for eligible arrivals,
funding to conduct robust child labor investigations, and
reimbursement to the Department of Defense for its support. On
here is 1,000 law enforcement investigators, so that we don't
have the bad guys here.
None of this has been moved, because my friends on the
other side fail to realize that we are the United States of
America. As you are Chief in Eagle Pass, there are Fire Chiefs
in New York, there are Fire Chiefs in other cities who want to
do the right thing.
So, I just have a short period of time. If we could get
this 13.6 billion passed and get that money coming to you that
you could use effectively, how helpful would that be to you?
Mr. Mello. That would be very helpful. Very, very helpful.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Do you need that money now?
Mr. Mello. Yes, I do.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Chen, would you please--you heard me
list some of the elements, you know what those dollars would be
going for. Explain how this money would be very effective in
easing that border crisis and reflecting that we are the United
States of America, and that the migration and immigration,
migrants and immigrants, collectively, have been contributors
to the Nation's economy, but to the Nation's goodness.
Can you tell me how some of these elements I have read
about would be effective in the work of helping ease this
crisis?
Mr. Chen. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. I will
start with the program that I think you referenced a moment
ago, the Shelter and Services Program run by FEMA. I was
actually talking with the Chief here just before the hearing
started about how the money--it is about 360 million that has
already been given out in Fiscal Year 2023 to cities and
localities across the country.
More is needed. That funding should come to ensure that
temporary services, temporary assistance, transportation,
emergency medical screenings, those kinds of needs are met.
That would help greatly small towns like Eagle Pass or cities
in the interior in welcoming immigrants that are coming into
the country.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has
expired. Mr. Moore.
Mr. Moore. Thank you for the witnesses being here today.
Our social services programs have been negatively affected
by the rise of migrants. Taxpayers have footed the bill for
illegal immigrants by shelling out over $150 billion of their
hard-earned money. I saw firsthand at the border hospitals are
overflowed, American citizens have traveled hours--or for hours
to get their medical needs met, because the local hospitals
could not take them.
Whether it be your doctors' appointments, your kids'
teachers being stretched thin, you can bet that they have been
negatively impacted by illegal immigration.
One of the things I find interesting--and as we were
traveling in Yuma, Arizona, is the hospitals, the young people,
the young ladies would come right across the border and have a
baby. Then, by Federal law the hospitals had to provide the car
seats before they could send them on their way. So, we are not
doing anything to secure the U.S. Southern border.
Chief, I know you would like to have the additional money,
but wouldn't you rather us do some things to kind of slow the
flow from other countries? I mean, we had 106 different Nations
come through Yuma, Arizona, according to Sheriff Dannels.
Wouldn't you rather us do something besides send money? It is
like setting a house on fire and then funding the fire
department. I don't quite understand the benefit of extra money
while we are setting a place on fire.
So, Chief, would you rather us just secure the border and
stop this flow of immigrants from all over the globe? There was
302,000 last month that came here. Wouldn't that be better than
just sending a little money?
Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
Mr. Moore. I think not only just for you, sir, but the
people that are dying--150 a day that are dying of fentanyl
poisoning, I think it would be better for those families as
well, or the displaced American citizens that were now taken
out of school systems. There are a lot of things we can do
instead of just funding the failure of this Department of
Homeland Security and this Executive Branch that we have got
that have created this issue.
Sheriff Dannels said in here in testimony in 2018, or he
said he had been there 40 years on the border, never had he
seen it as good as it was in 2018, and never as bad as it is
right now, and that was before last month.
So, there are a lot of things--it is always government, we
want to throw more money at the problem. We created the
problem, we set the building on fire, and then we funded the
fire department. That is kind of the way I see this.
So, anyway, is it Ms. Egorov? Is that how you say it? With
the new strain or influx of illegal immigrants, can you explain
kind of what this is doing to your schools? I mean, we have had
these--I understand there are 57 different dialects in Spanish
that are just South of the U.S. Southern border down through
South America. Are we seeing where we just really cannot
communicate with these kids? Can you talk about the strain that
it is putting on your school system?
Ms. Souza Egorov. I think the biggest problem is there is
already a shortage of ESL teachers, so teachers who can teach
children who don't speak English. Even if we had more financial
resources, there is just so many teachers who are qualified to
teach these children.
Also, as I mentioned, I think the paraprofessionals
shortages already existed as well. So, the children who are
coming, who are crossing the border, are going through some
horrible experiences. They are arriving with very severe needs.
Our schools are not necessarily designed to deal with such
impacts on their mental health and physical health.
Mr. Moore. Ms. Egorov, when you say, ``severe needs,'' can
you elaborate a little bit? Is it--because I understand we have
over 86,000 unaccompanied minors that we have lost. The Federal
Government has brought here, and we have shipped them all over
this United States, and we are hearing about these kids working
now in these sweatshops, or whatever you want to call them, but
also, we are not even background checking. We had one sponsor
that got 20 children, and we didn't do a background check. So,
we don't know where we sent these 20 children to this one
individual.
So, could you talk about--I don't have a whole lot of time,
but just when you say some pretty extreme situations or--can
you elaborate a little bit on what we are looking at?
Ms. Souza Egorov. I can give you anecdotal data about my
district. I believe just last month there was a 10-year-old in
a shelter who committed suicide. We don't know what that boy
went through crossing the border, right?
I think that the Federal Government has provided this data.
In my testimony, I refer to the 2019 report that specifically
says how children are being raped, are being child trafficked,
there is sexual violence, and sexual trafficking. Literally
there are--if you look on the internet, there are pictures of
children who have been medicated, who are not even conscious
being used to cross the border.
There are many cases--that report of the Homeland Security
as well--of children who are being used. They literally come,
help an adult get into the U.S., and they are sent back to help
another cross the--
Mr. Moore. Yes. They are just--they are like on a
treadmill. They come over. They--
Ms. Souza Egorov. Yes.
Mr. Moore. --identify as the student or the child of this
individual adult. Then, they grab the child, once the adult is
here, send them back across the border.
Ms. Souza Egorov. Yes.
Mr. Moore. They are basically just--they are just on a
little treadmill.
Ms. Souza Egorov. It is child trafficking, and we have
known that for many years, because there is a report from the
Department of Homeland Security.
Mr. Moore. Sure. My time is up. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Hunt.
Mr. Hunt. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Today we are here to talk
about the drain of illegal immigration and Biden's open border
policies and how they are affecting the American taxpayer.
Recently, airline safety has also become an issue of
paramount concern. People are concerned of whether or not doors
are going to fly off planes and panels, but I am going to tell
you about the issue that starts with safety long before anybody
in this room would actually board a plane.
Biden's open border policies are overburdening the TSA and
making it more difficult for the TSA agents to do their jobs
effectively. The TSA was created after 9/11 to oversee security
and all modes of transportation, including aviation safety.
As an American, you know we have to go through security
screening and board a plane just like everybody else. What you
also may know is that the TSA has an entirely different
standard for illegal immigrants. That is right. There is a
different set of rules for you, the American public, and
illegal immigrants.
You have all seen the TSA check line, of course. Well, I
have news for you. Biden's DHS has created another line, and
here is the picture to prove it. This is a line in the Tucson
airport specially made for noncitizens. As you can see, the
sign says, ``Non-U.S. Citizens Without Passports Enter Here.''
Without passports, that is the tip of the iceberg. These
illegal immigrants may go unvetted with no verifiable photo ID
at all, and I guess Biden and Mayorkas want us all to trust
that these people are going to say who they are based on just
their honesty and their word alone.
You know what a valid form of ID is for an illegal alien
according to TSA today? An arrest warrant. I am not making that
up. You can get on a plane with an arrest warrant. If an arrest
warrant can get an illegal alien on a domestic flight, then why
can't it get them a one-way ticket to jail where they belong?
This is not only an assault on American citizens, but a
great threat to our national security.
I am a Member of Congress. I have TSA pre-check and Clear.
When I get screened by TSA, I have to prove that I am who I say
I am with an official government ID. For the record, my name is
Wesley P. Hunt, as in Parish Hunt. If my airline ticket says
Wesley J. Hunt, this United States Congressman ain't getting on
the plane.
The TSA is tasked with airline security, but they are
letting illegal immigrants on our planes with unverifiable
identities.
We also know that in the last two years, over 200 people on
the terrorist watch list have been caught at the border that we
know of. For the record, I am a post-9/11 veteran. I deployed
to Iraq. I am a West Point grad. I fought for this country to
keep those people out of our country to keep it safer, and now
we are failing the American public.
I am a Texan, born and raised in Houston, Texas. Greg
Abbott, the Governor of Texas, has taken steps to stop the flow
of illegal immigration. By the way, that is not his job. That
is the Federal Government's job. Governor Abbott put buoys in
the Rio Grande, set up fences and barbed wire, just to name a
few protocols. How did Biden reward Governor Abbott for his
efforts? He sued the State of Texas. The Federal Government
sued the State for doing the job the Federal Government should
be doing by keeping you safe.
This illegal invasion is the destruction of Federal
immigration law and the elimination of any sort of protocol at
our Southern border that is not the result of negligence,
malfeasance, or incompetence. This is in fact the goal. Biden
is allowing this--he is not only allowing this catastrophe; he
is facilitating it.
The goal of the Biden Administration is to flood this
country with tens of millions of illegal immigrants, fly them
to a town near you, and if you question it, they will call you
a racist. They are sad.
The root cause of immigration begins and ends at 1600
Pennsylvania. If you want another 9/11 in this country, keep
the border wide open. I suggest that we don't.
I yield back the rest of my time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Chair?
Mr. McClintock. For what purpose does the gentlelady rise?
Ms. Jackson Lee. I ask for submission--for the ability to
submit into the record the following items and ask unanimous
consent. ``White House Calls on Congress to Advance Critical
National Security Priorities,'' which provides for us the
detailing of the Federal immigration funding that is required
to help the Chief from Eagle Pass. I ask unanimous consent.
I ask unanimous consent to add to the record the following
statements of the Asian Pacific Institute on Gender-Based
Violence, Center for Law and Social Policy, Church World
Service, National Immigration Forum, National Immigration Law
Center, United U.S., United We Dream, Women's Refugee
Commission, and the work of the National Association of
Christian Churches, Pastor Ortega. They are the ones that stand
ready to open centers, feeding, housing, clothing of those
innocent and noncriminal individuals who have come here because
they are fleeing persecution.
I ask unanimous consent that all these documents be able to
be submitted into the record.
Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. McClintock. Ms. Souza Egorov, you have heard the
Democrats for the last two hours do what they have been doing
for years. They love to conflate legal immigrants, like your
family, who have obeyed all our laws, who have waited patiently
in line, who have done everything our country has asked of
them, with illegal immigrants, whose very first act in this
country is to break our laws.
The legal immigrants I know find this infuriating. They
find it patronizing. They find it insulting. What are your
thoughts?
Ms. Souza Egorov. My husband and I are incredibly grateful
for the opportunity to live in America and to raise our family.
Mr. McClintock. How do you feel when you hear your family's
law-abiding behavior compared with that of illegal immigrants?
Ms. Souza Egorov. What I want is to make sure that my kids
have the same opportunities that we had here, to work and to
study. We need to have some kind of process to prioritize who
is coming to our country. I think it should be--
Mr. McClintock. Observe--
Ms. Souza Egorov. --and contribute--legal process, yes.
Mr. McClintock. Yes. Observe the rule of law as your family
did.
Ms. Souza Egorov. Yes. Absolutely.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you.
Ms. Souza Egorov. With some vetting process--
Mr. McClintock. I have got to move on.
Ms. Souza Egorov. There is no vetting now.
Mr. McClintock. Dr. Camarota, your studies entirely are on
illegal immigrants, and what you have done is to take the--with
extensive studies, the cost of the services demanded by those
illegal immigrants compared to the taxes that they pay. Am I
correct on this?
Mr. Camarota. Yes. We have an estimate for that, yes.
Mr. McClintock. That estimate is $68,000 net cost to U.S.
taxpayers per illegal immigrant. Is that correct?
Mr. Camarota. That is the lifetime net fiscal drain, yes.
Mr. McClintock. Right. Now, we have had five million
illegal immigrants enter this country and be released into it,
3.3 million deliberate released, another 1.7 million gotaways.
That is five million total.
Now, according to my figures, that is a staggering $340
billion a year of net costs to the American people.
Mr. Camarota. Yes. Just to be clear, that is a lifetime
cost.
Mr. McClintock. Right, right.
Mr. Camarota. That would assume that the educational
attainment--that is the key thing. Legal immigrants are much
more educated than illegal immigrants.
Mr. McClintock. Of course.
Mr. Camarota. That is what drives the cost estimate, not
illegality or anything like that.
Mr. McClintock. Exactly.
Mr. Camarota. It is the same reason, just to give you an
example, why cities and states worry so much about losing their
middle-class tax base.
Mr. McClintock. Well, let's just finish the math here.
Gallup, two years ago, estimated from their surveys there are
42 million people living in poverty in Latin America and the
Caribbean who intend to come here now that they can. That comes
to more than $2.8 trillion of costs to U.S. taxpayers, and that
is just for immigration from Latin America and from the
Caribbean. These are staggering numbers, and I thank you for
your studies on this.
Chief Mello, when we went to Eagle Pass last week, we were
told that 1,700 migrants had perished just on American soil
during this Administration, since it took office. No one knows
how many have perished South of the border. What have you
encountered? What can you describe that it means to perish in
the Texas desert?
Mr. Mello. Can you repeat that question, sir?
Mr. McClintock. What have you encountered in terms of
people perishing of--migrants perishing on American soil?
Mr. Mello. I have encountered several out in the field.
What we call the field is out in the ranches, out in the
ranches in the summertime. All along the year we saw 43
drownings in the Rio Grande. That is not counting on the
Mexican side, just Eagle Pass picking up migrants.
Mr. McClintock. Do you think that many of these people
would have made this dangerous trek if they knew they would be
turned back at the border?
Mr. Mello. When we have picked them up, they regret making
that trek.
Mr. McClintock. They made it because they knew they would
be admitted into the country; did they not?
Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
Mr. McClintock. The Democrat's witness says we simply need
more money to process people into the country faster, allow
them to stay, and provide even more free services to support
them. Will this reduce illegal immigration or increase it?
Mr. Mello. I think it will increase it.
Mr. McClintock. Can you describe the situation that you
have had with illegal immigration at the end of the Trump
Administration compared with the situation you face today?
Mr. Mello. The increase--the cost to the city, the cost of
not being a normal community, we are being overwhelmed. We are
being overwhelmed. One thing I can say is it needs to stop.
Mr. McClintock. All right. Thank you very much.
Thank you all of you for your testimony. I believe that our
Members have exhausted their questions, so, again, thank you
for making the trip here today. Thank you for your expert
testimony. This will conclude today's hearing.
Without objection, all Members will have five legislative
days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses
or additional materials for the record.
Without objection, the hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:15 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
All materials submitted for the record by Members of the
Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement can be found at the following links: https://
docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=116727.
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