[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
INFLUENCE PEDDLING:
EXAMINING JOE BIDEN'S
ABUSE OF PUBLIC OFFICE
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
MARCH 20, 2024
__________
Serial No. 118-95
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Accountability
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available on: govinfo.gov,
oversight.house.gov or
docs.house.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
55-182 PDF WASHINGTON : 2024
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COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY
JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman
Jim Jordan, Ohio Jamie Raskin, Maryland, Ranking
Mike Turner, Ohio Minority Member
Paul Gosar, Arizona Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina Columbia
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts
Michael Cloud, Texas Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia
Gary Palmer, Alabama Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois
Clay Higgins, Louisiana Ro Khanna, California
Pete Sessions, Texas Kweisi Mfume, Maryland
Andy Biggs, Arizona Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York
Nancy Mace, South Carolina Katie Porter, California
Jake LaTurner, Kansas Cori Bush, Missouri
Pat Fallon, Texas Shontel Brown, Ohio
Byron Donalds, Florida Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania Robert Garcia, California
William Timmons, South Carolina Maxwell Frost, Florida
Tim Burchett, Tennessee Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia Greg Casar, Texas
Lisa McClain, Michigan Jasmine Crockett, Texas
Lauren Boebert, Colorado Dan Goldman, New York
Russell Fry, South Carolina Jared Moskowitz, Florida
Anna Paulina Luna, Florida Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
Nick Langworthy, New York Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
Eric Burlison, Missouri
Mike Waltz, Florida
------
Mark Marin, Staff Director
Jessica Donlon, Deputy Staff Director and General Counsel
Jake Greenberg, Chief Counsel for Investigations
Clark Abourisk, Counsel
Mallory Cogar, Deputy Director of Operations and Chief Clerk
Contact Number: 202-225-5074
Julie Tagen, Minority Staff Director
Contact Number: 202-225-5051
------
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on March 20, 2024................................... 1
WITNESSES
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Tony Bobulinski
Oral Statement............................................... 8
Lev Parnas
Oral Statement............................................... 12
Jason Galanis
Oral Statement............................................... 14
Opening statements and the prepared statements for the witnesses
are available in the U.S. House of Representatives Repository
at: docs.house.gov.
INDEX OF DOCUMENTS
----------
* Statement for the Record; submtted by Rep. Connolly.
* Letter, to Majority Leader, re: Galanis; submitted by
Chairman Comer.
* Article, Michigan Advance, ``Tlaib Renews Her `impeach the
MF'er' Call Against Trump''; submitted by Rep. Biggs.
* Email, re: confirming Yelena Baturina was to invest $10-20M
with Hunter Biden; submitted by Rep. Biggs.
* Hunter Biden Calendar, Schedule Next 8 Days; submitted by
Rep. Biggs.
* Invitation to party attended by Baturina - redacted;
submitted by Rep. Biggs.
* Page 56 of Hunter Biden T.I.; submitted by Rep. Biggs.
* Pages 41 and 42 of Jason Galanis T.I.; submitted by Rep.
Biggs.
* Letter from Scalise Approving Appearance, re: Galanis;
submitted by Chairman Comer.
* Testimony of Tony Bobulinski, February 13, 2024; submitted by
Chairman Comer.
* Payment Document, Elections LLC; submitted by Rep. Crockett.
* Fourth Bank Memo showing bank statements and transfers;
submitted by Rep. Donalds.
INDEX OF DOCUMENTS
----------
* Portion of bank statement stipulating $100k going from CEFC
to Hunter Biden; submitted by Rep. Donalds.
* WhatsApp Messages, Exhibit-300-All-Relevant-Backup-Messages--
Redacted; submitted by Rep. Donalds.
* Article, KyivPost, ``Poroshenko asks Shokin to resign as
prosecutor general''; submitted by Rep. Fallon.
* Article, KyivPost, ``Prosecutor General Shokin resigns
(UPDATED)''; submitted by Rep. Fallon.
* Press Release, Department of Justice, ``Lev Parnas Sentenced
To 20 Months In Prison For Campaign Finance''; submitted by
Rep. Gaetz.
* Transcript, Interview of Devon Archer, submitted by Rep.
Goldman and Raskin.
* Press Release, Department of Justice, ``Lev Parnas Sentenced
to 20 Months''; submitted by Rep. Grothman.
* Article, New York Post, ``Biden insists he didn't interact
with biz partners''; submitted by Rep. Mace.
* Article, Townhall, ``Jared Kushner and Hunter Biden Are
Nothing Alike''; submitted by Rep. McClain.
* H.R. 918; submitted by Rep. Ocasio-Cortez.
* Article, Salon, ``Republicans worry zero accomplishments'';
submitted by Rep. Raskin.
* Article, DailyBeast, ``Texts Reveal More Russia Ties for
Bobulinski''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.
* Dem Staff Report, ``A White House for Sale''; submitted by
Rep. Raskin.
* Press Release, U.S. Attorney, Southern District of N.Y.,
``Pleads Guilty''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.
* Report, National Intelligence Council, ``Foreign Threats to
2020 US Federal Elections''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.
* Press Release, Department of Justice, U.S. Attorney, Southern
District of N.Y., ``Sentencing''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.
* Exhibit 400A, submitted by Rep. Sessions.
The documents listed are available at: docs.house.gov.
INFLUENCE PEDDLING:
EXAMINING JOE BIDEN'S
ABUSE OF PUBLIC OFFICE
----------
Wednesday, March 20, 2024
U.S. House of Representatives
Committee on Oversight and Accountability
Washington, D.C.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:09 a.m., in
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. James Comer
[Chairman of the Committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Comer, Jordan, Turner, Foxx,
Grothman, Cloud, Palmer, Higgins, Sessions, Biggs, Mace,
LaTurner, Fallon, Donalds, Perry, Timmons, Burchett, Greene,
McClain, Boebert, Fry, Luna, Langworthy, Burlison, Waltz,
Raskin, Norton, Lynch, Connolly, Krishnamoorthi, Khanna, Mfume,
Ocasio-Cortez, Porter, Bush, Brown, Stansbury, Garcia, Frost,
Lee, Casar, Crockett, Goldman, Moskowitz, Tlaib, and Pressley.
Also present: Representatives Smith of Missouri, Gaetz, and
Swalwell.
Chairman Comer. The Committee on Oversight and
Accountability will come to order. I want to welcome everyone
here this morning.
Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any
time.
Without objection, the Chairman of the Ways and Means
Committee, Mr. Jason Smith of Missouri, Representative Matt
Gaetz of Florida, and Representative Eric Swalwell from
California are waived on to the Committee for the purpose of
questioning the witnesses at today's Committee hearing.
For today's hearing, opening statements will be limited to
10 minutes for the Chair and 10 minutes for the Ranking Member.
The Chair also notes that points of order pertaining to the
engaging of personalities against the President will not be in
order for the duration of today's hearing. Given that this is a
hearing regarding this Committee's impeachment inquiry, members
must be allowed to speak frankly.
The Chair now recognizes himself for an opening statement.
Today, the House Committee on Oversight will hear from
witnesses who have previously provided information during our
deposition and interview phase regarding the Biden family's
business practices in China, Ukraine, Russia, and other places
around the world. At the start of this Congress, the Oversight
Committee has investigated what product or service the Biden
family and their associates were selling that would justify
over $24 million in payments. We have reviewed emails, bank
records, text messages, suspicious activity reports at
Treasury, and other evidence normally compiled during an
expansive investigation such as this. The Oversight Committee
has found no credible evidence of the Bidens providing any work
product. The Committee has identified no legitimate value or
document or even one single hour of work the Bidens have
provided their business partners. Nothing. What is apparent
after over a year of investigation is that the Bidens do not
work in any traditional sense of the word. They do not work as
consultants or lawyers or advisors. The Bidens do not sell a
product or service or a set of skills. The Bidens sell Joe
Biden. That is their business.
For months, we have heard Democrats desperately proclaiming
that witnesses have told this Committee that Joe Biden had no
involvement in his family's business dealings, but where are
those witnesses today? It is telling Democrats have not invited
one of these witnesses to today's hearing. That is because they
know their testimoneys would not withstand public scrutiny.
Democrats have relied on these witnesses' opening statements
and have willfully turned a blind eye to the facts that have
come out in these interviews once the witnesses were questioned
about our record of evidence. Democrats now must rely on
bringing in a distraction witness to talk about nonsense and
who cannot talk about any of the facts brought by today's
witnesses who worked with the Bidens.
Now, President Biden cannot control his adult son. He
cannot control his brother, his sister-in-law, or his nine
family members who have received money from these transactions.
All President Biden can do is control his own actions, and that
is what we are here today to discuss with the witnesses,
because in the course of this investigation, we have learned
that Joe Biden has taken action after action to further his
family's plans to get rich. He shows up to meetings, gets on
phone calls, shakes hands, and tells people to ``look after my
family.'' He goes to dinners with foreign oligarchs and a
Ukrainian executive paying his son millions of dollars. He gets
paid with money from Chinese businessmen who he has meetings
with and tells other business associates he will see what he
can do to help their situations. He writes letters of
recommendation for foreign business associates' children.
The scam is simple: the Biden family promises they can make
a foreign partner's problems go away by engaging the U.S.
Government. The problems can be anything: a Ukrainian
corruption investigation, moving Russian money to the United
States, a Romanian criminal prosecution, access for China to
American energy sources. Joe shows up, shakes a few hands in
front of his son, and says, ``Take care of my boy,'' or
something similar, and the money flows to the tune of tens of
millions of dollars. It is done over and over again. The Biden
family promises Joe's power, Joe Biden shows up, and millions
of dollars come into the Bidens' pockets. Joe Biden is the
family's closer. How could he not be?
The Bidens are not doing any other work for these foreign
companies that would warrant tens of millions of dollars. There
are only two explanations for this. The first is that Joe Biden
knows exactly what he is doing and knows a handshake, a wink,
and a smile is enough for him to maintain, as Jim Biden
famously calls it, plausible deniability, or Joe Biden is being
led around by his family and has no idea who he is meeting with
or what message he is sending, and is truly an elderly man with
a poor memory. There is no other explanation. Either Joe Biden
is complicit or Joe Biden is incompetent.
Since becoming Chairman of this Committee in January 2023,
I promised the investigation into the Biden family's influence
peddling would be based on bank records, witness testimony, and
verifiable facts. After years of Democrats using this Committee
as a mouthpiece for every conspiracy theory they could find,
like the Russian collusion hoax, under my leadership, the
Committee has returned to real investigations. If Democrats
want to spin another Russian hoax, I will ask them to answer
one question: what services did the Bidens provide to earn them
and their business associates over $24 million? What did they
do for the money? Democrats have the same bank records as we
do, and bank records do not lie. The witnesses today are here
to talk about Joe Biden. Republicans are here to talk about Joe
Biden. If Democrats wish to spend their time beclowning
themselves with another Russian collusion hoax for the sake of
protecting President Biden, they can do so.
As I said, I would have invited Hunter Biden here today to
sit alongside his business associates and provide his side of
the story. Hunter Biden demanded a public hearing. I have given
him one. Maybe he will show up. He has said he is not, but he
loves saying one thing and doing another. At some point Hunter
Biden saying one thing and doing another begins to reflect
poorly on his ability to tell the truth at all, but this
hearing is not about Hunter Biden. This investigation is not
about Hunter Biden. It is about Joe Biden and the lies he
continues to tell the American people.
With that, I yield to Chairman Smith.
Mr. Smith. Thank you, Chairman Comer and Ranking Member
Raskin. From the beginning of this investigation, we have made
clear that we will follow the facts wherever they lead. The
facts have led us to two conclusions: one, the Biden family has
for years traded on Joe Biden's name in order to rake in
millions of dollars, often doing so with his direct knowledge
and clear involvement; two, President Biden has been
continually dishonest with the American people about his
knowledge of his family's business dealings. We have testimony
from multiple witnesses that Joe Biden was the brand. He knew
what his son and brother were doing and did nothing to stop it.
That alone makes him complicit in a scheme to make money off of
his public service.
But he was not just complicit. He was, as one of today's
witnesses has testified, an enabler of this activity. The
evidence of the two IRS whistleblowers who came to the Ways and
Means Committee has been affirmed by volumes of material
provided to Congress by the testimony of others and even by the
Department of Justice, who finally brought charges against
Hunter Biden that mirror those called for by the IRS
investigators. The evidence obtained shows that, one, Joe Biden
met with his son's business partners on multiple occasions. He
used an alias to exchange dozens of emails with his son's
bookkeeper. He took official government action that
suspiciously coincided with those meetings and correspondence.
The connections between Joe Biden and his son's business
practices extended even to the Biden 2020 campaign. At the
height of the Democrat primary, Kevin Morris, a Hollywood
lawyer who met Hunter Biden at a Joe Biden campaign fundraiser,
paid off Hunter Biden's tax liabilities because there was, in
his words, ``risk personally and politically if that matter was
not swept under the rug.'' Investigators that were interested
in pursuing a potential criminal campaign violation were told
to stand down. The Biden family relied on the Biden brand so
much that evidence has revealed that Hunter Biden believed that
``all this stuff,'' meaning his legal troubles, would all go
away when his dad became President. Why did he believe that?
Because for years, the Biden family has personally benefited
from Joe Biden's position of power. Joe Biden knew this. He did
nothing to stop it, and he lied about it. I yield to Jim
Jordan, Chairman Jordan.
Mr. Jordan. I thank the gentleman. Who planted the pipe
bombs on January 6? Nobody seems to know. Who leaked the Dobbs
draft opinion, you know, the leak that led to an assassination
attempt on Justice Kavanaugh? How about this one? Who left
cocaine at the White House? The Biden Administration does not
seem to have time to answer these questions. They are too busy
investigating parents at school board meetings, labeling
Catholics extremists, retaliating against whistleblowers. They
are too busy putting together a sweetheart deal for Hunter
Biden, the deal that got laughed out of court. And, oh, the guy
who put together the deal that got laughed out of court, that
is the guy they named special counsel.
You know what Democrats do have time for? Going after
President Trump. They have been doing it for 8 years. They
spied on his campaign. Then it was the Mueller investigation,
19 lawyers, 40 agents, $30 million, and found nothing. Then it
was impeachment. Then it was raid his home. Then it was a
special counsel. Then it was the Fourteenth Amendment. The
party of democracy said, ``We are going to keep the guy off the
ballot,'' who is leading in every single poll. The Ranking
Member said that President Trump should be disqualified from
even running for office. Thank goodness we have a Supreme Court
who disagreed with the Ranking Member and the Democrats 9 to
zero. Not 5-4, not 6-3, not 7-2, not 8-1. Nine to zero they
disagreed.
Now, Democrats say how dare Republicans investigate Joe
Biden? How dare they look into the money, the business, and the
brand? As the Chairman said, millions of dollars from foreign
entities run through 20 different companies for what? I mean,
20 different companies for what? Devon Archer told us what it
was for: access to the brand, and the brand was Joe Biden, the
brand that played rounds of golf, took calls and meetings,
attended lunches and dinners with Hunter Biden and his business
partners; the brand that conditioned $1 billion of American tax
money on the firing of the prosecutor pressuring the company
Hunter Biden sat on the board of and, oh, by the way, was
getting paid a million bucks a year.
Today, we are going to learn more about that brand. We are
going to learn more about what Mr. Galanis called the Biden
lift. We will learn about the plausible deniability that Jim
Biden talked to Mr. Bobulinski about. And we will hear about
the statement, the rule that governed how the business operated
around Joe Biden, the rule that said, ``Say it, forget it.
Write it, regret it.'' So, I want to thank our witnesses for
coming here today. They, like the whistleblowers who came to
the Ways and Means Committee, are doing it simply because they
want the American people to have the truth. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now
recognizes the Ranking Member for 12 minutes for his opening
statement.
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, thank you very kindly. With any
luck, today marks the end of perhaps the most spectacular
failure in the history of congressional investigations: the
effort to find a high crime or misdemeanor committed by Joe
Biden and then to impeach him for it. In prior hilarious
episodes of this long-running madcap series, America got to see
the following: one, nearly 20 fact witnesses who could not
identify a single act of wrongdoing by President Biden, much
less a high crime and misdemeanor, and who overwhelmingly
testified that Biden was not involved in any of his family's
business adventures; two, three expert witnesses called by the
Majority itself, who said nothing that they had seen in the
tens of thousands of pages of documents introduced by the
Majority even remotely approached the level of a high crime and
misdemeanor; bank records which show exactly what all the
witnesses told us, that Joe Biden was not involved in his
family members' businesses; repeated voyeuristic displays of
pornographic images by the Majority, completely irrelevant to
any conceivable legislative or investigative purpose; a star
witness, Gal Luft, who turned out to be a Chinese agent and an
illegal arms trafficker on the run from American justice; and
the key piece of evidence which launched the entire zany goose
chase: an FD-1023 form in which the FBI duly recorded a
completely fictional tip about a $5 million bribe to Vice
President Biden, peddled by Alex Smirnov, who has been
criminally indicted by a Trump-appointed U.S. attorney, Special
Counsel David Weiss, for felony counts of systematically lying
to the FBI and constructing a false record about Joe Biden, and
now sits in jail in California as a flight risk while the world
studies his longstanding and extensive ties to Russian
intelligence.
Today, the good Chairman and his ace MAGA detectives have
finally jumped the shark. The comedy of errors comes crashing
to an end as House Republicans in more than a dozen Biden
districts beg for mercy, and the Committee throws a flabby Hail
Mary pass 3 weeks after the Super Bowl is over. So today, we
revisit the fruitless testimony of two more fading star
witnesses who have failed to testify to any Presidential
wrongdoing, much less evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors.
Both of the Majority witnesses are frustrated would-be business
partners of Hunter Biden, who tried to leverage the Biden name
or the Biden brand, as they keep calling it, but they never got
any business off the ground for reasons that will become
painfully obvious to anyone watching the proceedings today.
Even Hunter Biden, laboring at the time under a serious
substance abuse addiction, could tell these were not the type
of people he should be doing business with. So, rather than
representing the Biden brand, which was their ardent wish, they
now show up today as loyal servants of Trump world, each of
them proudly represented by their very own former Trump White
House attorney.
The first is Mr. Bobulinski, the bitterly disappointed
wanna-be Hunter business partner, whose famously litigious
history includes unsuccessfully suing his own dying father's
charity for nearly a million dollars, and just last month,
suing Cassidy Hutchinson for $10 million after she reported
that Mr. Bobulinski, wearing a ski mask, met with Mark Meadows,
which Ms. Hutchison has now backed up with actual documentary
photographic evidence, something in very short supply in this
investigation. Mr. Bobulinski made his hazy allegations against
the Bidens public for the first time at a press conference
choreographed by the Trump for President Campaign, which
provided him a venue, a gaggle of journalists, and even a dress
shirt that they went out and bought for him to wear to the
event. Hours later, Mr. Bobulinski joined the second 2020
Presidential debate as Donald Trump's personal guest, where he
was seated with Kid Rock and Mark Meadows.
The other star witness, Mr. Galanis, who, I believe, is
appearing by Zoom today, is a serial fraudster and convicted
con man, a term I would charitably not use on a witness, except
it was explicitly bestowed upon him by not one, but two
different U.S. Federal district court judges, including the one
who sentenced him to over 15 years in prison for defrauding
union pension funds, a Native-American tribe, and scores of
innocent investors. Mr. Galanis was sentenced to pay
restitution of over $80 million to his victims. That is a lot
of money. That is what Donald Trump was sentenced to pay E.
Jean Carroll for in that civil litigation. The very first
record of Mr. Galanis' claims against the Biden family
appeared--check this out--in the clemency petition that he sent
from prison to President Trump.
But the key point is this. Even if we were to believe every
single word offered by these utterly compromised and biased
witnesses, Mr. Bobulinski and Mr. Galanis, their allegations do
not identify any wrongdoing, much less an impeachable offense
by President Biden. With the impeachment bus running on empty,
our GOP colleagues now are apparently preparing to save face by
ending the impeachment farce with criminal referrals. But
criminal referrals require evidence of crimes, and the only
crimes we have seen are those of the GOP's own star witnesses,
like Russian asset, Alex Smirnov; Chinese agent, Gal Luft;
Devon Archer; and Jason Galanis.
The Minority witness today, our witness, Lev Parnas, casts
a piercing light on what is really taking place here, and Mr.
Parnas has reason to know. He, too, used to be a MAGA sycophant
peddling lies and disinformation to smear Joe Biden. Today, he
joins a long line of self-exiles from Trump world who could no
longer stomach all the corruption and deceit, people like
Cassidy Hutchinson; people like Michael Cohen; Sarah Matthews;
Alyssa Griffin; General James Mattis; the Chair of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff, Mark Milley; General John Kelly; and now, Vice
President Mike Pence, who refuses to endorse for President, the
man he has served with. But we do have loyal sycophants still
in the room, and 1 day I look forward to hearing their
testimony about how they got sunk into this religious cult.
Mr. Parnas wrote Chairman Comer and me a remarkable letter
on July 23, 2023. This is the first time I am meeting him
today. He was Rudy Giuliani's right-hand man, his globetrotting
business partner, and language interpreter in the mission to
manufacture Ukraine-and Burisma-related dirt and smears against
Joe Biden in 2018 and 2019. He spent all of his time traveling
around the world trying to stage evidence against Joe Biden. In
his letter, Parnas explains that the desperate search to find
evidence of any kind of Biden corruption was a complete and
total bust because there was no evidence to find.
He wrote to tell us that not only is there no evidence in
Ukraine that Joe Biden did anything improper, but, more darkly,
the manic search for a smoking gun against Biden became a
mission to invent and concoct evidence out of thin air with the
active help of Russian intelligence assets and agents.
Chairman Comer. Right.
Mr. Raskin. I am getting to Russia. You have not heard
anything yet, Mr. Chairman. A man who has reckoned with his own
more descent into Trump world, Lev Parnas is ashamed of what he
did to serve the interests of Russian propaganda and Putin's
lies, and he wants America to know the truth. He can explain
how the Russian-stimulated conspiracy theories and lies that he
promoted with Rudy Giuliani live on in the tiresome fabrication
spread by Alex Smirnov and now repeated by this Committee like
Pavlov's dog.
At every turn, my colleagues cry, ``Russia hoax,'' even in
the face of repeated warnings from Donald Trump's own Treasury
Secretary and Secretary of State, from the intelligence
community, from Robert Mueller, and, most recently, from
Special Counsel Weiss, who was named to office by Donald Trump.
As Secretary Mnuchin stated, ``Russian disinformation campaigns
targeting American citizens are a threat to our democracy.''
That is Secretary Mnuchin, someone that you guys usually
defend, but my GOP colleagues continue to cry ``Russia hoax''
like cult members selling flowers at the airport. Our
colleagues are the ones loyally amplifying the actual Russian
hoax, not the Russia hoax, the Russian hoax. The one that
Giuliani and Trump and Smirnov have eagerly adopted from Putin
and his agents.
They participate in this hoax while they shamefully block
$60 billion in military assistance to President Zelensky and
the besieged Ukrainian people 5 years after Trump and Giuliani
tried to shake President Zelensky down for counterfeit dirt on
Joe Biden. And while they continue to parrot these transparent
Russian lies, Vladimir Putin wages his bloody aggressive war on
Ukraine, filled with atrocities like the mass kidnapping of
children and the rape and slaughter of civilians. The MAGA
right's wholesale adoption of this Russian hoax and their
sellout of the Ukrainian people by the MAGA right is an
historic betrayal of democracy, freedom, and the rule of law.
But the defense of democracy begins with fidelity to the truth,
and the Oversight Democrats, America's truth squad against this
disinformation, is here today to set the record straight. I
yield back to you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. I would now like to introduce our
witnesses. Mr. Tony Bobulinski. Mr. Bobulinski was a business
partner of Hunter Biden in a joint venture between a Chinese
energy entity, CEFC. Mr. Bobulinski sat for a transcribed
interview with the Committee on February 13, 2024. Mr. Lev
Parnas. Mr. Parnas was not a business associated of the Biden
family. Mr. Parnas is an entrepreneur, a political activist,
and an author. And Mr. Jason Galanis. Mr. Galanis was a
business partner of Hunter Biden. Mr. Galanis sat for a
transcribed interview with this Committee on February 23, 2024.
We asked the Bureau of Prisons to make him available in person
today. They would only provide Mr. Galanis for virtual
testimony. Notably, Mr. Galanis applied for CARES Act home
confinement, and after a lengthy approval process, was approved
for home confinement on June 9, 2023.
On June 12, 2023, I issued a subpoena to Devon Archer for
testimony. On the following day, June 13, 2023, Mr. Galanis'
approval was reversed as a result of Department of Justice's
intervention, so Mr. Galanis has remained in a Federal prison
facility. He is currently in Montgomery, Alabama. Mr. Galanis,
can you please state for the record who else is in the room
with you?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, Mr. Chairman. My counsel and advisor,
Mark Paoletta and Nicholas Wise.
Chairman Comer. Thank you. Pursuant to Committee Rule 9(g),
the witnesses will please stand and raise their right hand.
Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are
about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
[A chorus of ayes.]
Chairman Comer. Let the record show that the witnesses all
answered in the affirmative. Thank you. You all may be seated.
We appreciate you all being here today and look forward to
your testimony. Let me remind the witnesses that we have read
your written statements and they will appear in full in the
hearing record. Please limit your oral statements to 5 minutes.
As a reminder, please press the button on the microphone in
front of you so that it is on, and Members can hear you. When
you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn green,
after 4 minutes, the light will turn yellow, and when the red
light comes on, your 5 minutes has expired, and we would ask
that you would please wrap it up as quickly as possible.
I now recognize Mr. Bobulinski for his opening statement.
Mr. Bobulinski. Should I allow Hunter to give his opening
statement first?
Chairman Comer. Well, it does not appear Mr. Biden showed
up for his public hearing, so we will recognize you, Mr.
Bobulinski.
Mr. Bobulinski. OK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
STATEMENT OF TONY BOBULINSKI
Mr. Bobulinski. Chairman, Ranking Members, and Members of
Congress, good morning. Thank you for this opportunity to speak
with you and present my truthful testimony to the American
people. I sit here today under oath for one reason and one
reason only: the American people deserve to hear the truth.
Though the truth involving the deep corruption of the Biden
family, including the malfeasance of the sitting President of
the United States, might be wrong and unpleasant, the American
people must hear it.
You are presented here today with two narratives in this
investigation: a false one being pushed by Joe Biden, a serial
liar and fabulist, now under this impeachment investigation for
public corruption; his brother Jim Biden, a 75-year-old man who
cannot keep his lies straight, including under oath; and his
son, Hunter Biden, a chronic drug addict facing two indictments
with 12 counts. You also have before you the truth confirmed by
multiple Biden family business partners over many years and
backed up by mountains of irrefutable evidence, including text
messages, emails, documents, recordings.
I am the only Biden family business partner with an
impeccable military record. I am grateful that this country has
given me the freedom to be successful. I worked hard to become
independently wealthy. I have taken several businesses public,
sold multiple businesses to some of the world's best private
equity firms. In fact, my business success is why they sought
me out. However, what they have done is repugnant to me. I am
here today because I am a patriot, and I am a truth-teller. We
keep hearing from certain corners that our democracy is at risk
and democracy is on the ballot in 2024. Yet, the same people
preaching this mantra know better. They continue to lie
directly to the American people without hesitation and remorse.
Rep. Dan Goldman and Jamie Raskin, both lawyers, and Mr.
Goldman a former prosecutor with the SDNY from New York, will
continue to lie today in this hearing and then go straight to
the media to tell more lies. Hunter Biden's defense attorney,
Abbe Lowell, weaponizes letters to Congress to try to smear my
name----
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Bobulinski [continuing]. And misstate the cold hard
facts----
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Bobulinski [continuing]. In an attempt to save his
powerfully connected client and his father. I challenge Mr.
Lowell to make those claims on national television so he can be
held accountable for his lies. Prior to my successful business
career, I was an officer in the United States Navy, at the
Navy's elite Naval Nuclear Power Training Command. I later
served as the Command's chief technology officer.
Chairman Comer. I apologize for the disruption from the
from the Minority.
Mr. Bobulinski. OK. Am I supposed to say it is my time, Mr.
Raskin?
Chairman Comer. Yes. Mr. Bobulinski, please----
Mr. Bobulinski. OK.
Chairman Comer. Come to order. Mr. Bobulinski, please
proceed.
Mr. Bobulinski. OK. OK.
Chairman Comer. Please proceed. I apologize for the
disruption from the Minority.
Mr. Bobulinski. OK.
Mr. Raskin. Well, Mr. Chairman, save his time, but he
called Members of this Committee liars. And I just want to know
whether the order and decorum requirements of House Rule XI
apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee? Does it
apply or does it not?
Mr. Bobulinski. Should I just----
Chairman Comer. There is decorum for the Members. We have
asked for that. There is no language that I am aware of
pertaining to a witness.
Mr. Raskin. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. So, I will make sure we did not waste any
of his time on the opening statement. Mr. Bobulinski, I am
sorry for the disruption. Please continue with your opening
statement.
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes. I think Mr. Raskin used my time.
Chairman Comer. We will make sure it is right. We will make
sure it is----
Mr. Bobulinski. OK. Great. I just want to make sure the
American people hear all these facts. Abbe Lowell weaponizes
letters to Congress to try to smear my name and misstate the
cold hard facts in an attempt to save his powerfully connected
client and his father. I challenge Mr. Lowell to make those
claims on national television so he can be held accountable for
his lies.
Prior to my successful business career, I was an officer
for over 6 years in the United States Navy's elite Naval
Nuclear Power Training Command as a decorated Master Training
Specialist. I later served as the Commander's Chief Technology
Officer, where I held a Q security clearance from the
Department of Energy and the NSA. When I left Nuclear Power
Training Command, I was the number-one-ranked direct input
officer in the entire Command and then jumped into the business
world and public markets.
While I have made a few contributions over the years to
Democrats, such as Representative Ro Khanna--I do not see him,
but I hope he shows up today; he sits on the Democratic side of
the Oversight Committee--I am not a political person. I come
from a family with a long history of distinguished service in
our Nation's military, including my father, both of my
grandfathers, and my brother, all of whom were willing to
sacrifice their lives for this great country. My sister serves
our military vets for 2 decades at the Veterans Administration.
We have lived our life as a family in service to this great
country.
I hope the American people will pay close attention to this
hearing. I also hope they will understand that some Members of
this Committee will engage in absurd attacks and efforts to try
to deflect attention from the facts I will present today by
questioning my integrity and my patriotic duty. You may see me
speak passionately at this hearing, but for good reason. Not
only was I willing to die for this country, every single male
member of my immediate family was willing to die for this
country.
I want to be crystal clear. From my direct personal
experience and what I have subsequently come to learn, it is
clear to me that Joe Biden was the brand being sold by the
Biden family. His family's foreign influence peddling operation
from China to Ukraine and elsewhere sold out to foreign actors
who were seeking to gain influence and access to Joe Biden and
the U.S. Government. Joe Biden was more than a participant in
and a beneficiary of his family's business. He was an active,
aware enabler who met with business associates such as myself
to further the business, despite being buffered by a complex
scheme to maintain plausible deniability. I ask this big
question. If there is no evidence of corruption here today, if
Joe's conduct and the conduct of his family were fully legal
and proper, then why are they so dishonest about it? Not just
slight misrepresentations of fact, but deep untruths about the
entire corrupt enterprise.
Hunter Biden gave his transcribed interview on February
28th and lied throughout his testimony. Here is just one
egregious example of Hunter's perjury. He lied to the Committee
on important details concerning his money demands and threats
to CEFC in text messages on July 30th and 31st, 2017. He
leveraged his father's presence next to him in that infamous
text to strong-arm CEFC to paying Hunter immediately. Jim Biden
also lied extensively throughout his transcribed interview on
February 21st and perjured himself. An example of that: on page
100 of his transcript, Jim is asked specifically: ``Do you
recall having a meeting with Hunter Biden, Tony Bobulinski, and
Joe Biden?'' Jim's response: ``Absolutely not''.
The Committee was so shocked by his perjury that they asked
him the same question multiple times. Each time he denied
meeting with me and Joe Biden. After the Committee showed him
text messages confirming that I met with Joe Biden, Hunter
Biden, and Jim Biden at the Beverley Hilton in May 2017, Jim
Biden, with a former U.S. attorney lawyer sitting next to him,
still denied that meeting took place. Hunter Biden in his own
transcribed interview confirmed that that meeting took place.
Hunter confirmed his uncle perjured himself in front of this
Committee.
I am simply here to tell the truth to the American people,
and I hope each and every one of you Congressmen and women give
me the opportunity to do that instead of focusing on Russia or
smearing my family's name or focusing on facts that are
irrelevant today. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. Thank you.
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, a parliamentary inquiry.
Chairman Comer. Yes.
Mr. Raskin. Just two points. One is, I believe that Mr.
Bobulinski went over 2 minutes, 14 seconds. I hope the same
courtesy will be given to Mr.----
Chairman Comer. We will give Mr. Parnas equal time.
Mr. Raskin. Thank you. And second, I see that we now have a
witness appearing remotely, and I thought that witnesses were
required to appear in person under the rules adopted by the
Majority at the beginning of the Congress. And do we have a new
practice with respect to that rule because I know that Members
on our side were denied the ability to participate in hearings
that were conducted in Florida and Mississippi and Alabama. We
wanted to participate by Zoom. So, I hope----
Chairman Comer. And I will answer that. To be able to
testify remotely requires a letter from me and approval from
the Majority Leader, which we have. And I will enter that----
Mr. Raskin. Good.
Chairman Comer [continuing]. Letter into the record,
without objection.
Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I hope we will extend
the same courtesy to Members of this Committee when they cannot
get to a hearing as in Mississippi or Florida. Thank you much.
Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, a parliamentary inquiry.
Chairman Comer. State your point.
Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Bobulinski just referred to
text messages. I believe he is referring to photos of a
BlackBerry.
Chairman Comer. What is your parliamentary inquiry? State
your parliamentary inquiry because we have got a very important
hearing here, and we do not have time for stunts. What is your
parliamentary inquiry?
Mr. Goldman. It is not a stunt. I am simply asking that Mr.
Bobulinski----
Chairman Comer. You do not have a parliamentary inquiry.
The Chair now recognizes Mr. Parnas for equal time that Mr.
Bobulinski----
Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, does the Committee have in its
possession the text messages that----
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Parnas----
Mr. Goldman. Does the Committee have the text messages that
Mr. Bobulinski----
Ms. Mace. Mr. Chairman, we do not have time for games by
Democrats today.
Chairman Comer. All right. Listen, we have important
witnesses here. This is a credible investigation.
Mr. Goldman. I am asking a question from one of your
important witnesses.
Chairman Comer. You asked for a parliamentary inquiry. You
will have 5 minutes whenever Jamie Raskin tells me it is your
time to speak.
Mr. Parnas, the Chair recognizes you for equal time that
Mr. Bobulinski had, which was 7 minutes.
STATEMENT OF LEV PARNAS
Mr. Parnas. Thank you. Hello. Honorable Members of
Congress, Chairman Comer, Ranking Member Raskin, and Members of
the Oversight Committee, I am humbled and thankful to show up
before you today.
I came to the United States from Odesa, Ukraine in 1976
when it was still the former Soviet Union. My mother, father,
sister, and I had left the Soviet Union, escaping antisemitism
and persecution. While in Rome en route to Israel, my sister
and I won the most important opportunity that we have ever been
given. We won the U.S. Green Card Lottery. My family came here
with literally no more than shirts on our back and the hopes of
rebuilding our lives in the land of freedom. I say this to you
because I love this country.
From shortly after my arrest on October 9, 2019 to now, I
have been trying to share the irrefutable truth with you. The
American people have been lied to by Donald Trump, Rudy
Giuliani, and various cohorts of individuals in government and
media positions. They created falsehoods to serve their own
interests, knowing it would undermine the strength of our
Nation. From November 2018 to October 2018, I was a key
participant and a witness to numerous efforts to prove that Joe
and Hunter Biden were linked to corruption in Ukraine. Rudy
Giuliani, on behalf of then-President Donald Trump, tasked me
with a mission to travel the globe, finding dirt on the Bidens
so then an array of networks could spread misinformation about
them, thus securing the 2020 election for Donald J. Trump.
Ironically, when I was arrested, my original indictment linked
me to an individual referred to as Unindicted Co-Conspirator
One. We now know this individual to be Congressman Pete
Sessions, who sits on this very Committee today.
Today, I ask you to consider the following. In nearly a
year traveling the world and interviewing officials in
different countries, I found precisely zero evidence of the
Bidens' corruption in Ukraine. No credible sources ever
provided proof of criminal activity, not the FBI, CIA, nor the
NSA. No respectable Ukrainian official has ever said that the
Bidens did anything illegal, including former President
Poroshenko and former prosecutor general, Yuri Lutsenko. Even
when the CEO of Burisma, Mykola Zlochevsky, was offered a deal
by Rudy Giuliani in exchange for information on the Bidens, he
provided none because there is none. The only information ever
pushed on the Bidens in Ukraine has come from one source and
one source only: Russia and Russian agents.
The impeachment proceedings that bring us here now are
predicated on false information spread by the Kremlin. Everyone
involved knew they were sharing lies. From Trump and Giuliani's
shadow diplomacy; through my missions to Ukraine and elsewhere;
through members of BLT team, a group convened for the sole
purpose of investigating and damaging the Bidens, everything
was for the ultimate benefit of Donald Trump and, thereby,
Vladimir Putin. Because the team's investigations were centered
around Biden and Ukraine, I was designated the point person in
every matter they pursued. That is how I know with certainty
that these Biden stories are untrue then and are untrue now.
Congressman Pete Sessions, then-Congressman Devin Nunes,
Senator Ron Johnson, and many others understood they were
pushing a false narrative. The same goes for John Solomon, Sean
Hannity, and media personnel, particularly with Fox News, who
used this narrative to manipulate the public ahead of the 2020
elections. Sadly, they are still doing this today as we
approach the 2024 elections.
We cannot separate this conspiracy from the Russian-Ukraine
War because Trump has no intention to keep aiding Ukraine.
Without the support of the United States and NATO, millions in
Ukraine will suffer and die. If we allow Russia to defeat
Ukraine, eventually that suffering will reach American shores.
Today, I admit my own wrongdoings. I have been convicted on
Federal election campaign and fraud crimes and served my
sentence. I do not hide that from reality. It is part of my
truth. Despite rigorous attempts by those in power to silence
me, I will be silenced no longer.
Thank you to the Committee for allowing me to speak. I look
forward to answering any and all of your questions.
Chairman Comer. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mr.
Galanis for his opening statement.
STATEMENT OF JASON GALANIS
Mr. Galanis. Chairman Comer, Ranking Member Raskin, and
Members of the Committee, my name is Jason Galanis. I was a
business partner of Hunter Biden and Devon Archer, among
others, during the years 2014 to 2015. Our business included
the acquisition of an 85-year-old Wall Street firm, Burnham &
Company, the $1.5 billion surviving division of Drexel Burnham
Lambert. Our objective was to build a diversified private
equity platform which would be anchored by a globally known
Wall Street brand together with a globally known political
name: Biden. Our goal--that is, Hunter Biden, Devon Archer and
me--was to make billions, not millions. The entire value-add of
Hunter Biden to our business was his family name and his access
to his father, Vice President Joe Biden.
In 2014, we believed that the Burnham enterprise would be
significantly enhanced by forming a partnership with Harvest
Fund Management, a $300 billion Chinese financial service
company closely connected to the Chinese Communist Party. This
effort was led by Hunter Biden's contact with Henry Zhao, the
Harvest chairman. Mr. Zhao was interested in this partnership
because of the game-changing value-add of the Biden family,
including Joe Biden, who was to be a member of the Burnham-
Harvest team post the vice presidency.
My lawyer provided to the Committee a draft email, dated
August 23, 2014, drafted for Hunter Biden that reflects this
understanding. It states, ``Michael, please also remind Henry
Zhao of our conversation about a board seat for a certain
relation of mine. Devon and I golfed with that relation earlier
last week, and we discussed this very idea, and as always, he
remains very, very keen on the opportunity.'' I am certain that
this phrase ``a certain relation of mine'' refers to Vice
President Biden. Devon told me about this golf course
conversation shortly after it happened. Ultimately, this
paragraph was deleted from the final version, with Hunter
following our general rule of thumb on business deals: ``Say
it, forget it. Write it, regret it.''
Further to that, I recall being with Hunter Biden and Devon
Archer at the Peninsula Bar in New York, where Hunter took a
call from his father and told him things were going well with
Henry Zhao and Harvest and that he might need a little help
getting it across the finish line. It was not the only time I
heard Hunter speaking with his father for business reasons. I
was present when Hunter called his father on May 4, 2014 on his
cellphone, put it on speaker mode to have him say hello to
Yelena Baturina, a Russian oligarch and an investor in Rosemont
projects, and her husband, Yuri Luzhkov, the former mayor of
Moscow. Devon Archer was also there. Hunter said, ``I am here
with our friends I told you were coming to town, and we wanted
to say hello.'' The Vice President said hello and some
pleasantries and then, ``Hope you had safe travels,'' and then
said, ``OK. You be good to my boy.'' Hunter responded by
saying, ``Everything is good, and we are moving ahead.'' The
Vice President said something about ``being helpful,'' and
Hunter ended the call by saying he was going to call his father
later.
Before this call, Hunter sat next to Yelena Baturina at the
table, and I heard them speaking on business matters generally.
A few days after this May 4th party, an email my lawyer
provided to this Committee shows that Devon had confirmed Ms.
Baturina was committed to a ``hard order'' of $10 million to
$20 million in a Burnham investment banking client. In an
effort to build this financial platform, I engaged in unlawful
conduct. Our companies were entrusted with $11 billion of union
pension fund money, whose trust I betrayed. I pleaded guilty. I
have had 8 years in Federal custody to reflect on my actions. I
am profoundly sorry for committing these crimes. I deserve the
lengthy sentence I received.
Nevertheless, as I set out more fully in my full statement,
I believe the SDNY prosecutors did not indict Hunter Biden on
the same deal for political reasons despite then-available
documentation that we were partners, we were involved in
decisionmaking that involved illegal self-dealing, and all of
us had financially benefited from these schemes. In fact,
Hunter Biden and Devon Archer's company, Rosemont Seneca Bohai,
received $15 million from the tribal bonds fraudulent scheme to
be invested in the Burnham group.
I have offered all this information to the government about
Hunter Biden's crimes, but the prosecutors have been
uninterested. In my request for commutation I filed with the
DOJ on December 2020, I did provide information about Hunter's
culpability. The DOJ has retaliated against me and vigorously
objected to my being placed in home confinement pursuant to the
CARES Act. I applied for home confinement on February 4, 2023,
and I was approved on June 9. On June 12, this committee issued
a subpoena for Devon Archer, and the BOP reversed my approval
on June 13, with the SDNY prosecutors strongly objecting to my
release. I have been appealing this reversal, and, with each
stage, the BOP reason for my denial has changed.
During this period, the period beginning in January 2023, I
was sexually assaulted by a member of prison staff at FPC
Pensacola. He persisted in sexually harassing me for many
months thereafter. I had hoped to receive home confinement to
remove me from the danger. My judgment was clouded by the shame
I felt for not being able to prevent the attacks. I was well
aware, as all inmates are, that the Bureau of Prisons had a
horrible record on these matters. I believed my disclosure
would have made things worse for me. Unfortunately, the sexual
harassment continued until early August when the prison
correctional officer's comments became more threatening. I
feared for my safety.
I decided to seek counseling from Chaplain Dixon the next
day, on August 10, 2023. The chaplain was visibly upset by the
events and asked to bring in Warden Saulsberry, who quickly
opened a PREA investigation, which is a reference to the Prison
Rape Elimination Act passed by Congress. And after further
debriefings, I was immediately escorted to a vehicle and driven
by senior staff hours to FPC Montgomery, a separate facility. I
am grateful the Committee has opened up an investigation into
these matters, and I appreciate Chairmen Jordan and Comer and
Subcommittee Chairman Biggs signing the letter.
I believe I have been a victim of a pattern of retribution
by the Department of Justice. I believe I am putting myself at
grave risk within the BOP for providing information on these
matters concerning the President and his son. I have been
treated professionally at Montgomery. I want to thank Case
Manager Coordinator Anthony Barnes and Warden Randy Keyes for
their help in facilitating access to my attorney prior to this
interview.
Chairman Comer. Thank you, Mr. Galanis, and I want to thank
all the witnesses again for being here today.
We will now begin the questions, and I want to remind
Members on both sides of the aisle each Member has 5 minutes. I
am going to adhere to that and hit the gavel. If the question
has been asked, then we will allow the witnesses time to
respond, but we are going to try to get in a lot of questions
from a lot of Members. And I will begin the questioning
followed by Ranking Member Raskin.
Again, Mr. Bobulinski, thank you for your service to our
country, your military service. I appreciate you being here.
During the 118th Congress, this Committee has investigated Joe
Biden's involvement in his family's influence peddling schemes
around the world. So, let us start with that. Mr. Bobulinski,
was Joe Biden involved with any of your business dealings with
Hunter Biden and James Biden?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes, he was.
Chairman Comer. Was Joe Biden involved in his family's
attempts to sell their access to him?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes, he was.
Chairman Comer. You set out to form a legitimate business
with the Bidens. Did you come to find out that the Biden family
had no interest in doing real business?
Mr. Bobulinski. I did.
Chairman Comer. Mr. Galanis, are you aware of any times
Hunter Biden used Joe Biden with Joe Biden's knowledge to
benefit their business associates?
Mr. Galanis. Yes.
Chairman Comer. Which business associates?
Mr. Galanis. Yelena Baturina, the Russian oligarch----
Chairman Comer. Russian.
Mr. Galanis. Russian; Chinese; the Chinese fund manager,
Henry Zhao; and Mykola Zlochevsky, the Ukrainian oil and gas
oligarch.
Chairman Comer. OK. Now that we have established that Joe
Biden was involved in his family's business dealings, I would
like to turn to the financial records we have subpoenaed. One
major point my Democrat colleagues downplay is how much money
the Biden's accumulated from foreign business ventures in such
a short period of time. We have over $24 million to the Biden
family and their business associates from 2014, while Joe Biden
was Vice President, to 2019. Mr. Bobulinski, there came a time
when you were attempting to raise $10 million from the Chinese
to pursue an actual business deal, a real business deal, but it
would not be correct to say this was a $10 million deal, would
it? What did the Bidens conceive of the business with the
Chinese becoming?
Mr. Bobulinski. The Chinese were committing to deploying
billions of dollars in infrastructure projects here in the
United States as well as around the world.
Chairman Comer. Mr. Galanis, what was the financial goal
you, Mr. Archer, and Hunter Biden set out to achieve? Was it
millions of dollars or billions of dollars?
Mr. Galanis. Billions of dollars, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Billions with a ``B?''
Mr. Galanis. Yes, billions.
Chairman Comer. Now, I would like to turn to some of the
statements Joe Biden has made during his presidency about the
findings of this investigation. Mr. Bobulinski, Joe Biden has
said he never interacted with his family's business associates.
Did he meet with you?
Mr. Bobulinski. He did.
Chairman Comer. In fact, are you aware----
Mr. Bobulinski. He did on multiple----
Chairman Comer [continuing]. Joe Biden also met with----
Mr. Bobulinski. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Yes, go ahead.
Mr. Bobulinski. He did on multiple times.
Chairman Comer. OK. Are you aware that Joe Biden also met
with Rob Walker, Eric Schwerin, and Devon Archer too?
Mr. Bobulinski. I am generally aware of it.
Chairman Comer. Mr. Galanis, as you discussed earlier
regarding Yelena Baturina, the Russian oligarch, you were
present for Hunter Biden calling his then-Vice President father
with the Russian oligarch, Yelena Baturina, present, correct?
Mr. Galanis. That is correct.
Chairman Comer. You also were present for Hunter Biden's
conversation with his father about a board seat on a Chinese
company board. Is that correct?
Mr. Galanis. I was present for a call where some Chinese
transaction was discussed, yes.
Chairman Comer. So, Mr. Galanis, isn't it true that when
Joe Biden said he did not interact with his family's business
associates, that is not true, is it?
Mr. Galanis. I believe it would be misleading to the point
of being a non-truth.
Chairman Comer. I want to touch on the fact about the
absent seat in the middle. Hunter Biden has chosen not to
attend today's proceedings, and I have given Mr. Biden exactly
what he asked for before his deposition. It is clear that
Hunter Biden knows his testimony would not withstand public
scrutiny. Joe Biden has not been truthful about his
participation in schemes to sell access and influence, and
today's witnesses will show the American people a side of the
story that the President and his allies on this side of the
aisle are eager to hide.
Mr. Bobulinski, can you tell us about your meeting at the
Beverly Hilton with Joe Biden?
Mr. Bobulinski. The short version or long version?
Chairman Comer. Long version, but within a minute.
Mr. Bobulinski. OK. So, Hunter Biden, Jim Biden, and Joe
Biden were in Los Angeles for a variety of business
discussions. Joe was there to speak at the Milken Conference in
May 2017. I had lunch with Hunter Biden at the Chateau Marmont,
and he had asked me to meet with his father that night. He set
up a meeting at the Beverly Hilton, where they hold the Milken
Conference. And I got there a bit early and sat with Jim Biden,
Hunter Biden, and we were just talking about what we were doing
with the Chinese and the legal documents I was working through.
And they had sort of coached me before Joe showed up. They
said, listen, we are going to just keep things at a very high
level. We are not going to go into a lot of details in this
meeting. And I just remember that discussion generally because
it just struck me as odd, honestly. Joe was not in the White
House then, and that they were sort of framing it that way. And
then Joe showed up, walked through the lobby of the Beverly
Hilton Hotel. I stood up to shake his hand, and we sat down and
spent 45 minutes to an hour going through my background.
Chairman Comer. You met with him that long?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes, yes, yes. This was not a handshake----
Chairman Comer. All right.
Mr. Bobulinski [continuing]. A 2-second discussion about
the weather. This was a 45-minute----
Mr. Goldman. How long is this going to go on?
Mr. Bobulinski [continuing]. Long meeting to an hour, where
we talked about a lot of stuff.
Chairman Comer. Very good. Thank you. The Chair now
recognizes Ranking Member Raskin for his questions.
Mr. Raskin. But we are actually going to go to Mr. Garcia
to begin.
Mr. Garcia. Great. Thank you very much and thank you again.
I just want to, just for the record, be very clear that in Mr.
Bobulinski's testimony, he has provided zero evidence--zero
evidence--of any sort of link between Hunter Biden and the
President, as far as it relates to the business dealings. And
so once again, we are back to a hearing where no evidence is
being provided of any sort of wrongdoing by the President, but
I want to go back----
Mr. Bobulinski. That is a blatant lie.
Mr. Garcia. [continuing]. Actually, it is my time, sir.
Mr. Bobulinski, I want to go back to the private deposition
that we had. I was one of a handful of Democrats in that
private, on-the-record, under-oath conversation we had. And
during that deposition, I asked you a question of which you
gave a false answer to, and I want to go back to that. I asked
you specifically who got you into the Presidential debate that
was attended by you and others, and that, of course, was a huge
moment in that campaign, and you could not recall. In fact, you
said, ``I do not recall who got me into the debate.'' Do you
remember telling me that, sir?
Mr. Bobulinski. You were playing semantics, trying to ask
me as if somebody called me directly and gave me a ticket like
going to a movie----
Mr. Garcia. Sir, I am going to reclaim my time, sir.
Mr. Bobulinski. I told you that my lawyer----
Mr. Garcia. I am going to reclaim my time. What I said
was----
Mr. Bobulinski. [continuing]. Well, you asked me a
question, Mr. Garcia.
Mr. Garcia. I am reclaiming my time. Thank you, sir.
Actually, what I asked you was, ``Do you recall who actually
got you into the Presidential debate?'' You actually said, ``I
do not recall who got me into the debate.'' You did not
remember who got you into the debate between Joe Biden and
Donald Trump.
Mr. Bobulinski. That is not a true statement.
Mr. Garcia. Sir, you quoted, ``I don't recall who got me
into the debate.'' It is on page 102 of the transcript.
Mr. Bobulinski. You did not ask me whether I was a guest of
Mr. Biden----
Mr. Garcia. Sir, I asked you that question. Thank you. I
will reclaim my time. I am not asking you a question right now.
Thank you very much, sir. In fact, here, as was shown by
Ranking Member Raskin, we know that you were in the debate
actually sitting adjacent and next to Trump officials. When you
were confronted again on the same question, Mr. Bobulinski, if
you were a guest of Mr. Trump at the debate, you responded and
you quoted, once the Wall Street Journal called you out, ``Is
the Wall Street Journal God or something? Like, you act like
this is some encyclopedia of fact.'' And you refused to still
confirm that you are a guest of Donald Trump, so I want to ask
you one more time, sir. Were you a guest of Donald Trump at the
Presidential debate?
Mr. Bobulinski. Mr. Garcia, those were not the questions
you asked me in my transcribed interview. You were trying to
ask semantical question.
Mr. Garcia. Answer the question, sir. Were you a guest of
Donald Trump?
Mr. Bobulinski. I was clearly a guest of Donald Trump at
the debate. It was obvious to everyone in the world at that
point. You are asking me semantical questions.
Mr. Garcia. Thank you, sir. So, you were a guest? You
answered the question because at the time you said in the
transcript, under oath, ``I do not recall who got me into to
the debate,'' so just to be clear. So, I want to keep going.
So, you also call yourself you are not a political person, yet
you went to a Presidential debate on behalf of Donald Trump. I
want to also make it clear that you made numerous claims and
allegations, you have made them today, you have made them
before. And yet, even though you are not a political person--
this is also another photo of you--you actually chose to show
up at a press conference for Donald Trump prior to the debate
because you are not a political person. Did you show up to a
press conference for Donald Trump before the debate?
Mr. Bobulinski. I cannot qualify whether it was for Donald
Trump.
Mr. Garcia. Do you know who invited you? Sir, who invited
you to the debate? Donald Trump, you said. Who invited you to
the press conference?
Mr. Bobulinski. My lawyers coordinated things, and I showed
up.
Mr. Garcia. Well, sir, I will tell you, it was Jason
Miller--it has been very clear, it has been reported--who
actually worked under the part of the Donald Trump Campaign.
Here you are at a Donald Trump press conference, and you cannot
remember how you got to the press conference. You refuse to
answer how you actually gotten to the Donald Trump debate with
Joe Biden. Do you remember speaking at the press conference?
Mr. Bobulinski. I do very clearly.
Mr. Garcia. You do. Do you know who Jason Miller is, sir?
Mr. Bobulinski. I do know of him. Yes.
Mr. Garcia. Do you know that he was a Trump Campaign
staffer?
Mr. Bobulinski. Mr. Garcia, you keep asking me semantical
questions. You underestimate that I had three lawyers around me
that were coordinating my travel, where I was going, and so
forth.
Mr. Garcia. Well, sir, interesting----
Mr. Bobulinski. So, please stop.
Mr. Garcia. Well, I reclaim my time. Thank you very much.
It is interesting, sir, because you show up to a pre-debate
press conference, you show up to a Presidential debate, both
invited to by a person running for the presidency of the United
States. You know the stakes are high, yet you have no idea how
you got to the press conference. You do not remember how you
got to the debate. And here you are speaking at a press
conference of which the national media----
Mr. Bobulinski. I do remember.
Mr. Garcia. So, how did you get to this press conference?
Mr. Bobulinski. I flew on a plane.
Mr. Garcia. Who invited you?
Mr. Bobulinski. Are we going in circles on who invited?
Mr. Garcia. Sir, who invited you to the press conference?
Mr. Bobulinski. My lawyers told me I was invited to come to
Tennessee. At that point I was trying to get the truth and the
facts out to the American people. At that moment in time, if I
recall, I believe 80 million people watched that debate, and
that was probably the No. 1----
Mr. Garcia. Thank you, sir. I reclaim my time. Well, with
that, I think it is very clear for someone that cannot remember
how he got to a Donald Trump press conference or a Donald Trump
debate, you are completely an uncredible witness, sir. Thank
you, and I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair
now recognizes the Chairman of the House Ways and Means
Committee, Jason Smith, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have previously
heard from two IRS whistleblowers that Joe Biden was the brand
being sold by his family members. One such example of this
could be seen in a June 6, 2017, WhatsApp message where Hunter
Biden told a business associate that he was not willing to
``sign over my family's brand'' or give them ``the keys to my
family's only asset.'' Mr. Bobulinski, can you confirm that
President Biden is the brand being sold by his family members?
Mr. Bobulinski. I can. It is a hundred percent right.
Mr. Smith. Thank you. During his deposition, Hunter Biden
repeatedly testified under oath that his father was not
involved in his business in any capacity and that there was not
even a connection between his father and his businesses. Here
is just one example, ``I just state for the record one more
time, under oath and under penalty of perjury, my father has
never been involved in my business. I have never asked my
father to be involved in my business. My father has never
benefited from my business, and I have never asked anyone or my
father to do anything for the benefit of anyone I have ever
done business for.'' Yet the Ways and Means Committee released
a WhatsApp message that were provided by the IRS whistleblowers
showing that Hunter Biden wrote on July 30, 2007, ``I am
sitting here with my father, and we would like to understand
why the commitment made has not been fulfilled. I am sitting
here waiting for the call with my father.'' Moreover, you
testified that Hunter was not shy about his ability to get his
father on the phone, and Devon Archer testified that there were
multiple instances in which Hunter placed his dad on
speakerphone.
Mr. Bobulinski, was Hunter Biden telling the truth when he
testified under oath that his father was never involved in any
of his business dealings?
Mr. Bobulinski. No, he was not. Those are all blatant lies.
Mr. Smith. We continue to hear claims that President Biden
was not involved in his family's business dealings and that he
did not benefit from illicit business deals. However, IRS
Special Agent Joe Ziegler provided documents to the Ways and
Means Committee, 327 emails, many of which involve Hunter Biden
and Hunter Biden's business associates. Mr. Bobulinski, do you
have any personal experience that leads you to believe that Joe
Biden was involved with Hunter Biden's business associates and
business dealings?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes, I do.
Mr. Smith. You want to say a few?
Mr. Bobulinski. To outline how Joe was involved?
Mr. Smith. Yes.
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes. Different Congressmen and women keep
trying to say that there is no evidence and use the word
``involved,'' which is a very opaque claim. If Joe Biden was
not involved in his son's business dealings, why after flying
all the way across the country to the Milken Conference, where
there is, next to Davos, is probably the biggest conference in
the world, why would he take 45 minutes out of his night? It
was not a 10 a.m. meeting. It was 10:40 in the evening. He is
an elderly man, flew all the way across country to sit with me
for 45 minutes to an hour to discuss my background, the
business we are doing with the Chinese, his family's
background.
Mr. Smith. Speaking of the business with the Chinese, in
October 2020, Joe Biden asserted that his family had not earned
money through business dealings in China. However, IRS
whistleblowers shared evidence that the Biden family made at
least $1.1 million from their business with China, including
$100,000 in payment from CEFC China Energy and a $1 million
payment in exchange for legal services that were never provided
to a CEFC official, Patrick Ho.
Mr. Bobulinski, do you know whether the Biden family made
any money from China.
Mr. Bobulinski. They did. Millions of dollars. I think
approximately $8 million to $9 million.
Mr. Smith. The Biden family has made millions of dollars
from China, correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Mr. Smith. And you said at least $9 million.
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes. I think it is actually over $10
million, but I will leave those details up to you guys.
Mr. Smith. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now
recognizes the Ranking Member.
Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Parnas,
for being here today. Your involvement with the real Russian
hoax about Joe Biden began in 2018 when, as a big donor and a
big supporter of Donald Trump's, you were introduced to Rudy
Giuliani, and you began working with him to dig up dirt on Joe
Biden in Ukraine. If you can just tell us quickly how you got
involved in that.
Mr. Parnas. Yes. I was a donor at the time. I began doing
business with Rudy Giuliani. He got involved in a business I
was doing called Fraud Guarantee and in the midst we started
spending a lot of time together and until, eventually, in
November 2018, he approached me and asked me about my
connections in Ukraine. After telling him about people that I
knew and things that I heard, at that point then he wanted me
to go to Ukraine to find Viktor Shokin, the prosecutor general.
Mr. Raskin. And basically, he wanted to go from his Fraud
Guarantee to guaranteeing a fraud on the American people. But
after turning over every stone and going down every rabbit
hole, including interviewing Viktor Shokin and Zlochevsky, the
owner of Burisma, did you ever find this smoking gun or any
evidence that Donald Trump was looking for to paste on Joe
Biden?
Mr. Parnas. On the contrary, Representative Raskin, not
only did we keep hitting dead walls and not finding the smoking
gun, but we kept running into sources of the information that
was coming out of Russia.
Mr. Raskin. In fact, Joe Biden was part of a global
campaign, including by the United States, to oppose corruption
and to go after the corrupt forces in Ukraine. Isn't that
right?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Raskin. At what point did the campaign to dig up dirt
on Biden become a campaign to spread disinformation and lies
about Biden?
Mr. Parnas. At some point, when we hit a few brick walls,
all of a sudden then I saw the shift between the BLT group,
which included John Solomon, the media personality, and Rudy
Giuliani, and other Trump lawyers, to start trying to push
narratives that were not validated. We had no way to validate
them. Basically, a letter would come over from somebody in
Ukraine. I would hand it over to John Solomon. Next thing you
know, he was on Fox TV 2 hours later with Sean Hannity.
Mr. Raskin. At what point did Mr. Giuliani begin working
directly with Russian agents and Russian assets, individuals
who would later become sanctioned by Donald Trump's own
Treasury Department, for spreading propaganda and
disinformation against Joe Biden?
Mr. Parnas. It was sometime in probably around May-June
2019.
Mr. Raskin. Were you aware, was Mr. Giuliani aware that
these people were basically just doing the bidding of Vladimir
Putin?
Mr. Parnas. Absolutely.
Mr. Raskin. So, he had no hesitation about spreading lies
that were concocted by Russian agents?
Mr. Parnas. As long as it fit the narrative, absolutely
not.
Mr. Raskin. How were you and Giuliani able to take these
false allegations, peddled by corrupt officials and Russian
agents, and promote and amplify them here in the United States,
in our political system? Weren't media groups skeptical of your
claims?
Mr. Parnas. Most media groups, I would probably say, all
except for Fox and a few other right-wing media groups, did not
want to take any of the information, and that aggravated Rudy
Giuliani and John Solomon and other players, and the main group
that was being pushed through was Fox, Sean Hannity and some
other media personalities over there. But then there was also
other people that were doing the bidding for the Russian people
in Congress, like Senator Ron Johnson, like Congressman Pete
Sessions that sits here right now, that was with me from the
very beginning in this journey into finding or digging dirt on
Joe Biden.
Mr. Raskin. Is Putin's war on Ukraine today, which has cost
hundreds of thousands of people's lives, is that part of the
vaunted Russia hoax?
Mr. Parnas. Absolutely not.
Mr. Raskin. Is it real?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, absolutely.
Mr. Raskin. I want to ask you one more personal question,
if I might, Mr. Parnas, because in my several years living
through this extraordinary period of American history, I have
tried to ask people like Michael Cohen and Cassidy Hutchinson,
I have wondered about people like General Milley, General
Kelly, why did you break with all of the deceit and corruption
and lies of Donald Trump? How did you get out of that culture?
Mr. Parnas. I mean, it was very difficult. I actually had
to hit a brick wall myself and get arrested and to be able to
get out of that cult because when you are in that cult, when
you are around them, you have blinders on, and you are only
able to see a certain amount of information. You are only able
to hear the certain amount of information. You are not allowed
to go out on the outside, out of the circle, and if you go
outside of the circle, then you are not in the circle, so
eventually, you brainwash yourself to believing certain things
that are not true. When I was arrested and had some time to
reflect and really understand what was going on, I started
realizing, looking back and thinking back to moments in time
where I started thinking to myself that this cannot be true,
and we are doing something wrong.
Mr. Raskin. Well, thank you for telling the truth and
helping America to end this nightmare. I yield back to you, Mr.
Chair.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes the Chairman of
the House Judiciary Committee, Jim Jordan.
Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Ranking Member
just said that, ``Joe Biden was opposed to corruption.''
Really? So opposed, he leveraged a billion dollars of American
tax money to fire the prosecutor in Ukraine who was
investigating Zlochevsky at Burisma, the company Hunter Biden
sat on the board. Wow. And the prosecutor who replaced Shokin
that Mr. Parnas referenced in his opening statement, Mr.
Lutsenko, guess what he did? He took Zlochevsky off the wanted
list and dropped the charges. Wow. He is really, really opposed
to corruption there. Mr. Bobulinski, who is the ``Big Guy''?
Mr. Bobulinski. Joe Biden.
Mr. Jordan. Are you sure about that?
Mr. Bobulinski. Joe Biden.
Mr. Jordan. You sure?
Mr. Bobulinski. I am a thousand percent sure.
Mr. Jordan. Because when Hunter Biden did his deposition
under oath, he said, ``I do not know who it is,'' even though
he was copied on an email that said, ``H will hold 10 percent
for the ``Big Guy''.'' You sure the ``Big Guy'' is Joe Biden?
Mr. Bobulinski. A thousand percent, and there are other
text messages that back that up that the brave whistleblowers,
Shapley and Ziegler, had produced, not from my phones, not from
my Blackberry that I took screenshots from. They took them from
subpoenas directly from Apple's iCloud that back up the fact
that Hunter knew the ``Big Guy'' was Joe Biden.
Mr. Jordan. The ``Big Guy'' is the brand. The ``Big Guy''
is the lift. The ``Big Guy'' is the one who showed up at golf
outings, who took phone calls in meetings and lunches and
dinners with Hunter Biden and his business associates. Is that
right?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Galanis, you referenced in your opening
statement, May 4, 2014, you were at a party at a restaurant in
Brooklyn, New York. Can you tell me who else was there?
Mr. Galanis. Yes. It was a birthday party. So, there were
more than a 100 people there, but amongst them was Devon
Archer; myself; the host, Alex Makarski; Yelena Baturina; her
husband; and then Hunter Biden joined after I arrived.
Mr. Jordan. And tell us, I think you referenced a phone
call that took place. Tell the Committee what happened with
that phone call. Who was involved in that phone call?
Mr. Galanis. As I testified in my opening statement, it was
already said it was Yelena Baturina, her husband, myself,
Hunter initiating it, Joe Biden on the speaker phone, and Devon
Archer.
Mr. Jordan. So, there is a little pull aside where that
group of people you just described, pulled aside and Hunter
Biden called his father or called the Vice President. Is that
accurate?
Mr. Galanis. That is accurate.
Mr. Jordan. And then tell me what was discussed on the
call.
Mr. Galanis. As I testified, it was a relatively short
discussion, but it was a discussion about Yelena and Yuriy
coming to town. As I testified specifically, they talked about
being good to his boy. And then it ended----
Mr. Jordan. Well, let me ask you this. Mr. Galanis, let me
ask you this. Did you get the impression Joe Biden was
expecting the call?
Mr. Galanis. Yes. To me it was clearly set up ahead of
time. It was an arranged call.
Mr. Jordan. So, this was arranged. This was coordinated.
Hunter Biden calls his father, then Vice President, and I think
in your deposition, you said he said this, ``I am here with our
friends that I told you were coming to town.'' So, it is ``our
friends'' and ``I told you this was going to happen,'' which
suggests that it was most definitely coordinated. Is that
accurate?
Mr. Galanis. That is accurate, yes.
Mr. Jordan. And again, can you tell the Committee who Ms.
Baturina is again?
Mr. Galanis. A Russian billionaire, wife of the former
mayor of Moscow, served for nearly 20 years as the mayor.
Mr. Jordan. She is the wealthiest woman in Russia. She had
already given money to Hunter Biden in his business before this
meeting in May, and then subsequent to that meeting, she
committed to give more money. Is that accurate?
Mr. Galanis. That is accurate.
Mr. Jordan. So, subsequent to the coordinated call, the
arranged call that Hunter Biden had with the Vice President of
United States, the wealthiest woman in Russia commits to give
millions of dollars more to Hunter Biden's business. Is that
all accurate, Mr. Galanis?
Mr. Galanis. That is accurate, yes.
Mr. Jordan. And again, this was a pull aside done at this
meeting, and you think and you know that it was coordinated. Is
this what they call access to the brand, access to the Biden
lift? Is that what you would describe it as, Mr. Galanis?
Mr. Galanis. I do not think there is any doubt that that
was the intent of the call and the objective, yes.
Mr. Jordan. And it followed the motto, it followed the
statement that you all agreed to ``say it, forget it; write it,
regret it.'' This was not put in writing. This was a phone call
on a speaker. That was all. There is no writing about this. It
was all done that way. That was how the business operated. Is
that correct, Mr. Galanis?
Mr. Galanis. Yes.
Mr. Jordan. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now
recognizes Mr. Lynch from Massachusetts for 5 minutes.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to make an
observation here. I have been on this Committee, this
investigating Committee for over 20 years. And as an attorney
before that, I have had sufficient training and experience to
say that, with high confidence, that when you review the entire
record of evidence of these hearings going back over a year,
you have actually provided more evidence to impeach Donald
Trump for a third time than you have in so much as laying a
glove on President Biden.
We keep on hearing about the Biden family. When you hear
someone say, ``the Biden family,'' that translates into we have
no evidence on the President, so we are going to use the Biden
family to try to implicate President Biden. But by the constant
bumbling and continually shifting arguments here, you have done
nothing more than exonerate President Biden. For months, we
heard about the Hunter Biden laptop, and there were absolutely
some embarrassing photos on that and some awful information
about Hunter Biden's personal life, I will admit that. Then you
bring in your own witnesses, your legal experts before this
Committee, and had them testify, and what they said was
amazing. They said there was no evidence to even suggest that
there was support for articles of impeachment against the
President. That was your legal experts, the Republican legal
experts that said that. Then we have statements by Mr. Jordan
saying that Mr. Smirnov was the most corroborating witness that
the Republicans had, the strongest witness that they had. And
course, after that we find out, through the Trump-appointed
prosecutor, that all of the information that Mr. Smirnov had
provided was fabricated, false, and submitted by the inducement
of Russian agents going after President Biden and trying to
undermine our democratic system.
And now we come to a point where, since that witness blew
up, now we are going to prison where we are reaching out to
witnesses who have been convicted and sentenced to prison for
stealing $80 million from the pensions of innocent workers. We
cannot get any lower at this point. That is your star witness.
I want to remind people, he is sitting in prison. That is why
he cannot be here today. He is sitting in prison for scamming
workers' pensions. I mean, how low can you get, that it is the
Republicans' idea that this is the best guy they can get to
testify against the President. This is the best guy they can
get, a guy sitting in prison who cannot even be here.
Mr. Parnas, you have talked about your own direct
involvement with Mr. Giuliani, and you said that your mission
was to dig up dirt on President Biden. Can you talk to us about
the coordination between yourself and Mr. Giuliani? Thank you
for being here.
Mr. Parnas. Thank you, Congressman. So, basically, it was a
shadow diplomacy run by Trump and Giuliani where Giuliani was
the shadow policy Secretary of State. I was his right hand and
basically the point person in Ukraine to not only dig up,
validate, search, whatever needed to be done to try to find
some corruption against Joe or Hunter Biden to be able to
present. Once I would receive whatever information I received,
I would then meet with him, John Solomon, and other members of
the team, like Pete Sessions and Derek Harvey or other people
there, to discuss what we found. At that point, from there,
Giuliani would then go to the White House and share with the
President, and that was the line of communication.
Mr. Lynch. You said also in your testimony that Members of
this Committee, Republican leadership, should have known before
Smirnov was indicted that this information was fabricated about
President Biden. Could you talk about that?
Mr. Parnas. Congressman Lynch, not that they should have
known, they did know. They knew exactly what was going on. They
knew that the evidence was not vetted. This information was
just coming in from anywhere from left to right field, and it
was being pushed straight to the halls of Congress without zero
verification of it.
Mr. Lynch. OK. Thank you. Gentlemen, my time has expired,
and I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. Before I
recognize Mr. Palmer, I would like to enter into the record the
testimony of Tony Bobulinski with the committee on February 13,
2024. It corrects the record of Representative Garcia's, who
did not provide your entire testimony. On page 147, you told
the Committee about your understanding of who invited you to
the events referenced by Mr. Garcia. So, without objection, I
would like to enter into the record the entire transcribed
interview of Tony Bobulinski.
Mr. Raskin. And Mr. Chairman, I would like to enter for the
record an article from today's Daily Beast entitled, ``Texts
Reveal More Russia Ties for Key Anti-Biden Witness,
Bobulinski.''
Chairman Comer. OK. Daily Beast, without objection.
The Chair now recognizes Mr. Palmer from Alabama for 5
minutes.
Mr. Palmer. Mr. Bobulinski, I have very limited time, and I
want to get through a lot of information, so please answer
these questions with a ``yes'' or ``no,'' if you do not mind.
You have met Joe Biden. Isn't that correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Mr. Palmer. In fact, you had a meeting with Joe Biden.
Isn't that correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. Two of them.
Mr. Palmer. One of those times was before the Milken
Conference in Los Angeles, May 2017. Is that correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. It was during the Milken Conference.
[Chart]
Mr. Palmer. You provided a great deal of documentation to
this Committee. I want to show you some messages between you
and Hunter Biden, they will be on the screen here, in May 2017,
before you first had a meeting with Joe Biden. These are
messages between you and Hunter Biden dated May 2, 2017. Do you
recognize these?
Mr. Bobulinski. I do.
Mr. Palmer. At the bottom, Hunter wrote, ``Dad not in now
until 11. Let me and Jim meet at 10 at Beverly Hilton where he
is staying.'' Jim is James Biden, President Biden's brother. Is
that correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
[Chart]
Mr. Palmer. The next set of messages is, if you would put
those on screen, is between another business associate of
Hunter Biden's and you. His name is James. Do you recognize it?
Mr. Bobulinski. I do.
Mr. Palmer. At the top you write, ``About to meet Hunter,
Jim and, I guess, Joe at Beverly Hilton Hotel.'' Joe is now
President Joe Biden. Is that correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Mr. Palmer. This chat between you and Jim Biden, Joe
Biden's brother, you write to Jim, ``Great to meet you and
spend some time together. Please thank Joe for this time. Was
great to talk. Thanks, Tony B.'' You met with Joe Biden, Hunter
Biden, and Jim Biden the night before the Milken Conference in
2017. Is that correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. I did, and Jim Biden perjured himself by
trying to deny that meeting.
Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Mr. Bobulinski. That was at the
Beverly Hilton, correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Mr. Palmer. You can provide more details around that
meeting. What was the purpose of that meeting?
Mr. Bobulinski. I did not ask for the meeting, so I wish
Hunter Biden was sitting next to me and he could, under oath,
describe it. But the only reason why I was meeting with Joe
Biden, and the only reason why I was there is because I was the
CEO of the enterprise that they were putting together with the
Chinese company, CEFC.
Mr. Palmer. So, can you give me a little more detail about
what was discussed in the meeting?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, as I said earlier, before Joe Biden
showed up, Hunter and Jim Biden coached me, asked to sort of
outline that we would not go into a lot of details. So, through
the 45-to 60-minute meeting I had with Joe Biden--I think it
was about 10:40 p.m., after he flew cross country--we talked
about my background, my family's military background, the
different business ventures I had done around the world, the
family I have worked with. Joe spent time talking about his
family, some of the tragedies that they had lived through, and
then at a high level, Hunter actually introduced me to Joe
because before Joe came and sat down with us, Hunter said,
``Hey, give me 5 to 10 minutes. I need to read my father in on
it.''
Mr. Palmer. So, when you are referencing Joe, and Hunter's
father, you are referencing President Joe Biden.
Mr. Bobulinski. I am.
Mr. Palmer. Correct.
[Chart]
Mr. Palmer. These four images--well, in this message you
sent to James--and you said you spent more time with Joe and
Jim this morning, and to be factually correct, that is
President Joe Biden and James Biden, his brother. ``Also saw
them last night, including Hunter.'' These four images show a
pretty clear record of your meeting with Joe Biden in May 2017,
Mr. Bobulinski. Hunter Biden, during his transcribed interview,
testified that the meeting did, in fact, take place. And after
being asked, ``Did Mr. Bobulinski meet with your father during
the trip,'' Hunter stated, ``He met with him in the lobby of
the hotel.'' When asked, ``Who attended the meeting?'' Hunter
replied, ``Michael and myself,'' but when asked whether the
meeting at the Beverly Hilton between Joe Biden, Jim Biden,
Hunter Biden, and Tony Bobulinski took place, Jim Biden
testified, ``Absolutely not.'' These stories do not match up.
Mr. Chairman, Jim Biden also told the Committee that Joe
Biden did not meet the Chinese businessman, Ye Jianming. Rob
Walker, by no means a friendly witness of the Committee, said
the opposite. So, Mr. Chairman, it appears to me that there are
material inconsistencies between the witnesses' testimony.
These witnesses' statements appear to me to be irreconcilable.
In short, Mr. Chairman, someone appears to be lying to the
Committee. The inconsistent testimony seems to come from Jim
Biden, the President's brother. Lying to Congress is a serious
offense, Mr. Chairman, a criminal one, in fact, and if the
Bidens or anyone else has come before this Committee and lied
to this Committee, I strongly encourage the Committee to pursue
criminal referrals to the Department of Justice.
One last thing that I want to ask, Mr. Bobulinski or Mr.
Galanis, have either of you heard of any offer of a pardon for
anyone involved or associated with or partner to the Biden
family enterprise corruption investigation?
Mr. Bobulinski. I am sorry. Was the question have I heard
of any----
Mr. Palmer. Have you heard of anyone being suggested that a
pardon might be an order for anyone associated with this
enterprise?
Mr. Bobulinski. I have not.
Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Mr. Bobulinski. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, I just have a parliamentary
inquiry.
Chairman Comer. State your point.
Mr. Raskin. We have heard for months now and seen the photo
of that BlackBerry with the cracked screen, does the Committee
have in its possession the data from Mr. Bobulinski's phone
from which he has allegedly taken these pictures, because I
think we need the data that they keep referring to, and maybe
Mr. Bobulinski could just turn it over to us, or we could
subpoena it today.
Chairman Comer. We have the images that we have shared with
you.
Mr. Raskin. Right. I saw the picture of the cracked
Blackberry, but do we have the underlying texts that are being
referred to by my friend, Mr. Palmer?
Mr. Goldman. Mr. Bobulinski previously said he would be
happy to turn over his phone, so if we could just----
Chairman Comer. We have pictures of all the text messages
and screenshots that we provided with everyone on the
Committee.
Mr. Raskin. OK. All right. Well, of course, he has just
given us, obviously, the ones he has selected. I am wondering
whether we could get all of those texts, and I would move that
the Committee to subpoena Mr. Bobulinski's Blackberry phone on
which messages with Hunter Biden and the Oneida Holdings
partners were saved. He stated that he is willing to provide it
to the Committee, so it should be rather simple.
Mr. Palmer. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Comer. OK. There is a motion to subpoena
Bobulinski's Blackberry----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Seconded.
Mr. Raskin. Yes, with the texts that were just referenced
by Mr. Palmer.
Mr. Jordan. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes, Mr. Jordan.
Mr. Jordan. I move to table the motion.
Chairman Comer. There is a motion to table.
Mr. Raskin. I would request a recorded vote.
Chairman Comer. The motion to table is not debatable. As
many are in favor----
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Comer [continuing]. Of tabling may signify by
saying aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
All those opposed, signify by saying no.
[Chorus of noes.]
Chairman Comer. In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have
it, and the motion to table agreed to.
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, what we are doing is we are
tabling evidence here which you keep relying on, so I am going
to ask for a recorded vote for that.
That just makes no sense.
Chairman Comer. A recorded vote is ordered. We will suspend
for a moment. This is a Committee hearing. We do not have the
clerk. Will somebody go find the clerk?
[Pause.]
Mr. Mfume. Mr. Speaker? Mr. Chairman? Mr. Minority Leader,
do you think it is possible that the witness would voluntarily
just give it?
Mr. Raskin. I had understood actually that Mr. Bobulinski
had volunteered when he was asked about this. It would simplify
things if he would just turn over the Blackberry.
Mr. Goldman. Well, he did very clearly say he is happy to
turn over his BlackBerry to the Committee. He did not. We then
asked for it at the deposition. We have asked the Majority to--
--
Chairman Comer. Mr. Goldman, you are out of order. We are
in suspension here waiting for the clerk to come so we can take
the vote that your side of the aisle requested.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Mr. Ranking Member?
[No response.]
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Mr. Ranking Member?
Mr. Raskin. Yes?
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. I solely want to underscore the
importance of this----
Chairman Comer. I am sorry. The gentlelady is out of order.
You can come back here and talk to him if you want.
Ms. Greene. Mr. Chairman?
[No response.]
Ms. Greene. Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Comer. Yes?
Ms. Greene. We do not even have a----
Chairman Comer. As I said Ms. Ocasio-Cortez would have to
come up, you will as well. Sorry.
[Pause.]
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, just an invitation to regular
order. We have Democratic clerks who are faithful to the rule
of law and could do this if you are waiting for clerks, and we
will all be here to watch to document their work. In other
words, if you want to conduct the vote with the Democratic
clerks, we can do it.
Chairman Comer. All right. A recorded vote is ordered.
The Clerk will call the roll.
The Clerk. Mr. Jordan?
Mr. Jordan. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Jordan votes yes.
Mr. Turner?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gosar?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Foxx?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Grothman?
Mr. Grothman. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Grothman votes yes.
Mr. Cloud?
Mr. Cloud. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Cloud votes yes.
Mr. Palmer?
Mr. Palmer. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Palmer votes aye.
Mr. Higgins?
Mr. Higgins. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes yes.
Mr. Sessions?
Mr. Sessions. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Sessions votes aye.
Mr. Biggs?
Mr. Biggs. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Biggs votes aye.
Ms. Mace?
Ms. Mace. Aye.
The Clerk. Ms. Mace votes aye.
Mr. LaTurner?
Mr. LaTurner. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. LaTurner votes aye.
Mr. Fallon?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Donalds?
Mr. Donalds. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Donalds votes yes.
Mr. Perry?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Timmons?
Mr. Timmons. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Timmons votes aye.
Mr. Burchett?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Greene?
Ms. Greene. Aye.
The Clerk. Ms. Greene votes aye.
Mrs. McClain?
Mrs. McClain. Aye.
The Clerk. Mrs. McClain votes aye.
Ms. Boebert?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Fry?
Mr. Fry. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Fry votes aye.
Mrs. Luna?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Langworthy?
Mr. Langworthy. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Langworthy votes aye.
Mr. Burlison?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Waltz?
Mr. Waltz. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Waltz votes aye.
Mr. Raskin?
Mr. Raskin. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Raskin votes no.
Ms. Norton?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Lynch?
Mr. Lynch. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Lynch votes no.
Mr. Connolly?
Mr. Connolly. Nay.
The Clerk. Mr. Connolly votes nay.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi?
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Krishnamoorthi votes no.
Mr. Khanna?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Mfume?
Mr. Mfume. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Mfume votes no.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez?
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Nay.
The Clerk. Ms. Ocasio-Cortez votes nay.
Ms. Porter?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Bush?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Brown?
Ms. Brown?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Stansbury?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Garcia?
Mr. Garcia. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Garcia votes no.
Mr. Frost?
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Lee?
Ms. Lee. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Lee votes no.
Mr. Casar?
Mr. Casar. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Casar votes no.
Ms. Crockett?
Ms. Crockett. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Crockett votes no.
Mr. Goldman?
Mr. Goldman. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes no.
Mr. Moskowitz?
Mr. Moskowitz. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Moskowitz votes no.
Ms. Tlaib?
Ms. Tlaib. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Tlaib votes no.
Ms. Pressley?
Ms. Pressley. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Pressley votes no.
Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Comer. I vote yes, and how is Mr. Burlison
recorded?
The Clerk. Mr. Chairman votes yes. Mr. Burlison is not
recorded.
Mr. Burlison. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Burlison votes yes.
Chairman Comer. How is Ms. Boebert recorded?
The Clerk. Ms. Boebert is not recorded.
Ms. Boebert. Boebert votes aye.
The Clerk. Ms. Boebert votes aye.
Chairman Comer. How is Mr. Turner recorded?
The Clerk. Mr. Turner is not recorded.
Mr. Turner. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Turner votes aye.
Chairman Comer. How is Mr. Frost recorded?
The Clerk. Mr. Frost is not recorded.
Mr. Frost. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Frost votes no.
Mr. Raskin. Ms. Porter.
Chairman Comer. How is Mr. Fallon recorded?
The Clerk. Mr. Fallon is not recorded.
Mr. Fallon. Fallon votes aye. Aye. Yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Fallon votes aye.
Chairman Comer. How is Ms. Porter recorded?
The Clerk. Ms. Porter is not recorded.
Ms. Porter. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Porter votes no.
Chairman Comer. Will the clerk tally the report?
The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the ayes are 21. The
nays are 16.
Chairman Comer. The ayes have it. The motion passes.
The Chair now recognizes Mr. Connolly for 5 minutes.
Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bobulinski, in
your deposition, you were asked about taking a picture of your
phone, and you said, ``I still have that phone. I could put
that phone on this table right here, and every person in this
room could look at that individual text and validate that it is
a legitimate text and the date and time stamp on it.'' Are you
willing to provide the Committee voluntarily with the
Blackberry referenced and that phone?
Mr. Bobulinski. I am willing to sit in a room with both the
Chairman and the Ranking Member with my phone and their staff
and we can go through each and every text message. As I said in
my interview, I had a forensics expert plug into my Blackberry,
somebody who has done extensive work for the FBI for over 10
years with an interest of pulling all the data off that phone,
so I can provide it to the Committee. Unfortunately, they were
using Cellebrite software, which is a software that the FBI
uses, and they were unable to pull the data off the phone. So,
I am more than willing to sit in the room with Mr. Chairman and
the Ranking Member and their staffs with that Blackberry, fully
charged, and we can go through each and every message if----
Mr. Connolly. Well, that is in progress, and I appreciate
that. But you can understand, I am sure, why the Committee
wants to look at prima facie evidence on its own, not rely----
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, I cannot understand why you are
trying to imply that I have not cooperated.
Mr. Connolly. Excuse me, sir. Mr. Bobulinski, this is my
time. You can understand why we would want to look at evidence,
raw and unvarnished, so that we can make our own determination,
but thank you for your willingness to cooperate at least at
that level.
Mr. Parnas, you observed back in 2023, in a letter you sent
to Chairman Comer that ``there were flagrant examples of
Giuliani interfering in Ukrainian politics.'' Why would
Giuliani be interfering in another country's politics?
Mr. Parnas. I mean, Giuliani would do and say whatever he
needed for the purpose of getting the information he wanted to
secure Donald Trump's 2020 election, so just a prime example of
one of the things he did. He had a close relationship with then
a boxer, Vladimir Klitschko, who was then the mayor in Ukraine.
When the new President came over, there was rumors about maybe
him not being staying in office as mayor of Ukraine. Klitschko
flew to New York, met with Rudy Giuliani, and then a meeting
that we had with Andriy Yermak in Spain that was relevant, had
to do with President Zelensky announcing the investigation into
Joe and Hunter Biden. At that meeting, he also brought up the
Klitschko situation and basically told Yermak that if Zelensky
got rid of Klitschko, President Trump and the American people
would be very upset about that because we love him, and he
needs to be in there.
Mr. Connolly. So, was Giuliani just doing this as a rogue
on his own because he was a patriotic American who loved Donald
Trump, or had somebody encouraged him to engage in this kind of
political interference in another country?
Mr. Parnas. I mean, I think he was encouraged by Donald
Trump.
Mr. Connolly. Personally?
Mr. Parnas. Personally, yes.
Mr. Connolly. That is your testimony?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Connolly. Thank you. In your letter, you also said that
Mr. Giuliani was to ``deliver a precise message in very strict
words.'' With respect to the administration of the then newly
installed President of Ukraine, President Zelensky, what did
you understand a very strict message or a message with very
strict words construed, and what was that message that you
delivered that was in very strict words?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, Congressman. He basically told me not to
be nice, to be very stern, and relay the message that unless
Zelensky announced an investigation into the Bidens by Monday--
this was Sunday--that there will be no cooperation, no aid to
Ukraine from the United States, and the Vice President Pence at
the time that was scheduled to appear for the inauguration
would not appear to the inauguration.
Mr. Connolly. That would seem to corroborate that very
famous and beautiful telephone conversation between President
Trump then and President Zelensky basically saying, ``but I
need a favor,'' and hinting that there would be withholding of
military aid until that favor was delivered. Is that fair?
Mr. Parnas. Absolutely. I was a part of setting up that
phone call, that famous phone call that Trump had with
Zelensky.
Mr. Connolly. I think your testimony is very important, Mr.
Parnas, and it is under oath.
Mr. Parnas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Connolly. I thank you. I yield back.
Chaiman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Taylor Greene
from Georgia for 5 minutes.
Ms. Greene. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Joe Biden continues to
lie to the American people about his role in his family's
businesses. In 2020, he stood up on stage of a Presidential
debate and told the American people that his family did not
take any money from China. That was a lie. Not only was it a
lie, he knew it was a lie. He knew it because he met with his
son Hunter Biden's Chinese business associates. I want to talk
about CEFC, which is the China Energy Fund Committee. Mr.
Bobulinski, who is Chairman Ye?
Mr. Bobulinski. Chairman Ye was the Chairman of CEFC.
Ms. Greene. Thank you. Jim Biden told the FBI and IRS that
Chairman Ye was the protege of Xi Jinping, the leader of China
and the Chinese Communist Party. Mr. Bobulinski, Rob Walker
told this Committee that Joe Biden met Chairman Ye. Are you
aware of that? Yes or no.
Mr. Bobulinski. I am now. I was not at the time.
Ms. Greene. And Joe Biden also met with you. Is that right?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes, he did, twice.
Ms. Greene. Who is Director Zhang?
Mr. Bobulinski. Director Zhang was the No. 2 at CEFC.
Ms. Greene. The executive director of CEFC, the No. 2?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes, he was the No. 2 executive, but really
the point person that I worked with, and the Biden family
worked with. And he is the individual that Hunter Biden was
shaking down at the end of July 2017, demanding that they fund
the $10 million, they ultimately send $5 million but $10
million directly to Hunter Biden's account, Owasco.
Ms. Greene. Thank you, Mr. Bobulinski.
[Chart]
I want to show you a text message that Hunter Biden sent to
you and his other business associates. I am holding it right
here. I will read it to you. ``Hey, Tony, I have an idea. In
light of the fact, we are at an impasse of sorts, and both
James' lawyers and my chairman gave an emphatic no, I think we
should all meet in Romania.'' He is speaking about ``my
chairman.'' When Hunter Biden came in for his deposition, he
said that he was referring to Chairman Ye and that the rest of
your group referred to Zhang as a different chairman. Does this
make any sense to you?
Mr. Bobulinski. That is a lie. I never heard Director Zhang
referenced as ``chairman,'' and I had direct communications
with Director Zhang over WeChat, met him in Romania, met him in
Moscow. I met him around the world, in New York, trying to
develop this business, and he was never referred to as ``the
chairman,'' first of all. Second of all, that makes absolutely
no sense in the context of this message because we are
discussing Oneida Holdings, LLC and the Chinese----
Ms. Greene. Thank you. So, he was not the Chairman? Just to
clarify. Yes or no.
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Ms. Greene. OK. So, I want to show you another text.
[Chart]
Ms. Greene. When he said, ``his chairman,'' he was talking
about his dad. This is from Rob Walker. It did not seem to make
much sense to Rob Walker either. So, he said when Hunter--he
said this to you--when Hunter was talking about his chairman,
he was talking about his dad. When Rob Walker came in to give
his transcribed interview to the Committee, he basically said,
well, Hunter was high or confused or mad, and Rob Walker said
that he was just trying to calm things down between you and
Hunter, but that does not really answer the question about who
Hunter Biden is talking about. Hunter Biden lied to this
Committee. So here clearly Rob Walker is saying he is talking
about his dad, so I want to be very clear we have established
that Zhang is not the Chairman, obviously. Is that correct? Yes
or no.
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Ms. Greene. Let me show you another message.
[Chart]
Ms. Greene. This message does not call Zhang ``Chairman
Zhang,'' does it? It just says the Chinese want to do business
with the Bidens. As a matter of fact, it says, ``Both coming to
be my partner, to be partners with the Bidens'', with an ``s.''
``He,'' Zheng ``implied that the No. 1 has made it clear and
available to him.'' Who is the No. 1?
Mr. Bobulinski. The No. 1 is Xi Jinping.
Ms. Greene. Xi Jinping, the President of China? Yes or no.
Mr. Bobulinski. That is correct.
Ms. Greene. The leader of the Communist Party, the CCP?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes.
Ms. Greene. Is the No. 1.
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes, that is the No. 1 that Hunter was
referencing in that message.
Ms. Greene. Now, let us be very clear. This was in 2017,
but I would like to make it known for this Committee that Joe
Biden told the press in 2016, as a matter of fact, ``Yes, I am.
I am going to run in 2020.'' He told the press in 2016 that he
was running for President of the United States in 2020. So,
here are the Bidens doing business in China in 2017 when
everybody knew he was planning to be President of the United
States. Do you see that to be a serious problem, Mr.
Bobulinski?
Mr. Bobulinski. I do, and I wish this Committee would
thoroughly investigate it and focus on all the evidence that
the SDNY has on CEFC. They had FISA warrants, so they were
recording conversations, and I wish they disclosed all of that
data and fact to this Committee.
Ms. Greene. Thank you, Mr. Bobulinski. I yield, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair now
recognizes Mr. Krishnamoorthi for 5 minutes.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Parnas, Rudy
Giuliani tasked to with, ``a mission to travel the globe to
find dirt to damage the Bidens' reputation in the 2018-2019
timeframe,'' right?
Mr. Parnas. Correct. Yes.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And this was an effort to secure
Trump's----
Mr. Parnas. Reelection in 2020.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi [continuing]. Reelection as President in
2020, right?
Mr. Parnas. Correct. Yes.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And by ``dirt,'' you mean evidence of
wrongdoing or criminality, right?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And in your travels, you found
``precisely zero proof of the Bidens' criminality,'' right?
Mr. Parnas. Correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And there was no evidence of the
Bidens' corruption in Ukraine because, as you said, there truly
was none, right?
Mr. Parnas. Correct. Yes, sir.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Now, interestingly, you have looked for
dirt around the world about the Bidens and specifically Joe
Biden, in particular, and you say the FBI, CIA, NSA have all
failed to produce any evidence of criminal wrongdoing, right?
Mr. Parnas. Correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Not only that, but former Ukrainian
President Petro Poroshenko stated there is not a single word of
truth to these allegations about Joe Biden, right?
Mr. Parnas. Absolutely. Yes, sir.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Now there is a guy named Yuri Lutsenko
who is the former prosecutor general of Ukraine, and he also
``confirmed that nothing ties the Bidens to criminal activity
in Ukraine,'' right?
Mr. Parnas. Correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And then there is another prosecutor
general named Viktor Shokin, who conceded that he had no
evidence that either Joe or Hunter Biden had ever interfered
with Ukrainian law, right?
Mr. Parna. Yes, sir.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And the reason you know this is because
you talk to each of these people, right?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And your job was to try to dig up dirt
or manufacture dirt, right?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And yet we have conducted months of
hearings, and because there has been no evidence of wrongdoing,
you have called this whole impeachment inquiry a ``wild goose
chase,'' right?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Now, interestingly, we have heard from
the other side that the real quid pro quo was not Donald Trump.
It was Joe Biden when he tried to hold up foreign aid when he
was Vice President in exchange for firing the Federal
prosecutor in Ukraine that was investigating the corruption
from his son. Now, you, again, looked for evidence to support
this claim. There is no evidence, correct?
Mr. Parnas. Correct. That was false.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. In fact, firing the prosecutor would
make it more likely that they would go after the company in
question, Burisma, not less, right?
Mr. Parnas. Well, the ironic part is the reason why
majority of the world and Ukraine and the Obama Administration
wanted to fire, get rid of Viktor Shokin because he was
corrupt, not because he was investigating Burisma. Because he
was stalling investigations for the U.K. that was looking into
$23 million they wanted to get from Zlochevsky, and Shokin
stalled that investigation.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. So, the logic is just the opposite----
Mr. Parnas. Yes.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi [continuing]. Of what the Majority
claims to be the case, namely that they say that somehow Joe
Biden was out to fire the prosecutor to reduce the chances of a
prosecution of Burisma, but actually, in firing that
prosecutor, he increased the chances of prosecuting Burisma,
right?
Mr. Parnas. Absolutely, correct. Yes.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. So let me just talk to you about what
some of the other witnesses in this impeachment inquiry have
said. Jonathan Turley, the constitutional expert that
Republicans brought forward, said there is no evidence of which
he was aware to support impeaching the President. You agree
with that, correct?
Mr. Parnas. One hundred percent.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Garret Graves, a colleague of ours said
just last week, ``Have I seen anything that is impeachable? No,
I haven't.'' You agree with that statement as well?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Last year, our Republican colleague Ken
Buck, who is about to retire, said that evidence of wrongdoing
by President Biden ``doesn't exist right now.'' It does not
exist now, it did not exist then, right?
Mr. Parnas. That is exactly true, sir.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Sir, how many times have you met Donald
Trump?
Mr. Parnas. Well over 10 times, I would say. I would have
to count, but lots of times.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Is there anything that you would like
to relate to us about your conversations with Donald Trump that
would bear on the conduct of these proceedings?
Mr. Parnas. I mean, Donald Trump was aware of everything
that was going on. On that that day in the Red Room when we
were in the White House, after Rudy bringing Donald Trump up to
speed on that I could go out to Ukraine and get Viktor Shokin,
now Trump approached me, shook my hand, and said thank you for
all that you are doing, keep up the good work, patted me on the
back, took pictures, and I was off to Ukraine.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. To meet with Viktor Shokin?
Mr. Parnas. To find Viktor Shokin, to bring him back here
to meet with Lindsey Graham.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Got it. Thank you so much. I yield
back.
Mr. Parnas. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Cloud from
Texas for 5 minutes.
Mr. Cloud. Thank you, Chairman. Now, we have heard time
after time Joe Biden say that he had no knowledge whatsoever
about the business dealings, and that changed. He had never
allegedly had any conversation with Hunter. Then they moved the
ball to say that, well, he did not have any business dealings,
he was not involved, did not have any financial contribution.
Since then, we have uncovered about 20 shell companies, and we
have bank records that bring light to that. And while we cannot
cover all 20 shell companies in 5 minutes, I wanted to focus on
one, and that is Rosemont Seneca Bohai.
Rosemont Seneca Bohai is interesting, and Devon Archer had
testified, and he said this in his testimony, he said that this
entity ``was used as a common entity, owned 50-50 on a
handshake deal between Devon and Hunter, splitting these
shares.'' Actually, that was your words, Mr. Galanis. Do you
stand by those words?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, I do.
Mr. Cloud. And Devon Archer agreed with that. He said
Hunter was a corporate secretary of RSB and had a handshake 50-
50 ownership deal. Is that correct?
Mr. Galanis. That is correct, yes.
Mr. Cloud. And primarily, this company was set up to,
initially, as a place to hold equity from the equity stake of
Bohai Harvest. Is that correct?
Mr. Galanis. What I was told by the partners at the time,
it was set up to do that and invest in other businesses, and I
think Devon Archer subsequently testified to that effect. It
included moneys that were paid from the bond fraud, $15 million
that was wired to that RSB account as well.
Mr. Cloud. Yes.
Mr. Galanis. So, it conducted multiple transactions as you
depicted in that diagram.
Mr. Cloud. And even if this were legal and there was no
impropriety here, it is very concerning because this company is
set up to basically compete against America's energy interests
at the behest of CCP. Then we have other flows into Rosemont
Seneca Bohai from Burisma. We all know about Hunter's $1
million salary that he received for sitting on the board and
providing no actual function there, and so we have $1 million
salary going through Rosemont Seneca to Hunter Biden. And then
this is interesting. We have a meeting with Kazakhstani Kenes
Rakishev, and what gets me here is the $300 at the end of the
$142,300 that goes into this and then the next day went to a
Porsche dealership for a car for Hunter Biden. Now, what is
interesting about all this, of course, is that each of these
not only flowed money through the shell companies to Hunter
Biden, but each of them also involved important meetings with,
of course, President Biden.
And so, on December 4, we have coffee with Jonathan Li, who
was one of the members who started Bohai Harvest, and he was
connected with the CCP. They were having trouble getting a
license to work because, of course, the CCP has to get
permission for that, until Hunter flew over on Air Force Two
with Vice President Joe Biden at the time. They met with
Jonathan Li. Hunter introduced him. Joe ended up writing a
letter of recommendation to Jonathan Li's daughter to get into
college, and then we see that this relationship continues to be
formed.
Of course, in the Ukraine, we know that April 16th, 2015,
Joe Biden had dinner with a Burisma official at Cafe Milano. It
seems to be a popular spot because Joe Biden also had dinner
with Kenes Rakishev there, all in flow to going here. And of
course, as Tony Bobulinski has pointed out several times, this
all comes down to eventually the one ``Big Guy'' who gets 10
percent for the ``Big Guy.'' And so, we know that all this
money flowed through this to get to Hunter, and then we know,
of course, that 10 percent went to the ``Big Guy.''
So, Mr. Bobulinski, does this general pattern of Hunter
offering foreign access to Joe Biden, Hunter gets paid and then
Joe gets a share of that, is that basically what the general
practice across many of these shell companies were?
Mr. Bobulinski. Congressman, as I outlined, the ``Big Guy''
is clearly Joe Biden. The details of some of those transactions
I was not involved in, but that is clearly how they operate.
Mr. Cloud. But that is the pattern that we have seen over
and over. And, Mr. Galanis, you said at the beginning that
Hunter did not really provide any sort of intellectual
propriety, asset value, or anything of the sort, that his
entire value was the brand. Is that correct? How did you state
that?
Mr. Galanis. Yes. We did not rely on him for any work
product other than delivering the Biden lift.
Mr. Cloud. The Biden lift, and one more question for you,
Mr. Galanis. Did you offer to provide information on Hunter
Biden and Devon Archer back in 2016 to prosecutors and the SEC,
and what happened there?
Mr. Galanis. Yes. Through counsel, I had offered to provide
information specifically on that to the SDNY. And, at some
point, I also did the same thing to the Securities and Exchange
Commission, which was interested and suddenly was told to quash
that interest. I understood that to be an order from the
Southern District of New York to quash the SEC information.
Mr. Cloud. Thank you. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair
now recognizes Mr. Goldman for 5 minutes.
Mr. Goldman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I only have 5
minutes, Mr. Bobulinski, so I am going to try to move quickly,
and I would appreciate if you just answer the questions. You
testified that Joe Biden was involved in your business venture
related to Oneida Holdings and Hunter Biden, so I want to drill
down on the crux of what your testimony is. Oneida Holdings is
the business venture that you are referring to, correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. I am referring to what? Can you ask the----
Mr. Goldman. Any business you did with the Bidens.
Mr. Bobulinski. My reference is to SinoHawk Holdings, LLC,
and Oneida Holdings, LLC owned 50 percent of that.
Mr. Goldman. Right. And Oneida Holdings was the 50 percent
that was on the American side of that SinoHawk deal, right?
Mr. Bobulinski. It was the 50 percent that was the Biden
side of it. You know, James Gillar is not an American, so.
[Chart]
Mr. Goldman. Sorry. Fair enough. And it was a joint
partnership memorialized in an incorporating document, correct?
And it had equal shares divided among five partners. Is that
right?
Mr. Bobulinski. Are asking me about what you are holding up
because you are----
Mr. Goldman. Sir, were there equal 20 percent shares among
five partners?
Mr. Bobulinski. In what?
Mr. Goldman. Oneida Holdings.
Mr. Bobulinski. In the final signed documents?
Mr. Goldman. Yes.
Mr. Bobulinski. Is that what you are asking me?
Mr. Goldman. Yes.
Mr. Bobulinski. It is?
Mr. Goldman. It is not complicated.
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, it is because----
Mr. Goldman. All right. You are just filibustering now. The
answer is--you are filibustering, I get it--that there were
five partners: Hunter Biden, Jim Biden, Rob Walker, James
Gilliar, and you. Each owned 20 percent. Do you----
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, they did not each own. Their LLCs
owned it, which is a material difference.
Mr. Goldman. Do you see Joe Biden or an LLC related to Joe
Biden on this?
Mr. Bobulinski. I do not know if Joe Biden owned any of Jim
Biden's LLC or Hunter Biden's LLC. I will leave that up to the
Committee.
Mr. Goldman. OK. And do you know when this agreement was
entered into?
Mr. Bobulinski. The poster board that you are holding up or
the actual legal document that was signed?
Mr. Goldman. The agreement, sir.
Mr. Bobulinski. The agreement.
Mr. Goldman. The agreement was signed May 22, 2017. Who was
the Vice President then?
Mr. Bobulinski. May 22 you said? I think it was Mike Pence.
Mr. Goldman. And who was the President?
Mr. Bobulinski. Donald Trump.
Mr. Goldman. OK. And when did you first meet Hunter Biden?
Mr. Bobulinski. I first met Hunter Biden in early 2017.
Mr. Goldman. When? When in 2017?
Mr. Bobulinski. A day or an hour or a month?
Mr. Goldman. The month. A month is good.
Mr. Bobulinski. I believe I briefly met him in New York.
The first meeting I had extensive time with him was in early
May 2017.
Mr. Goldman. OK. And that was around the same time that you
had those two meetings with Joe Biden, right?
Mr. Bobulinski. It was, but prior to that, I had numerous
discussions with Hunter.
Mr. Gold. So, look, you have said that----
Mr. Bobulinski. I had lawyers working----
Mr. Goldman. Sir? Sir?
Mr. Bobulinski [continuing]. Through the documents that you
are asking----
Mr. Goldman. Can I please reclaim my time, sir? As I said,
we have to move quickly here. In your testimony earlier today,
one of my colleagues asked you about that meeting at the bar,
45 minutes to 60 minutes, and you were also asked about that in
your transcribed interview. And in neither of your answers did
you mention any discussion that you had at that meeting with
Joe Biden about the Chinese business venture. Yet, in grandiose
terms here today you have declared that Joe Biden was involved
and that you have mountains of irrefutable evidence to support
it. So, let us look at the mountains of irrefutable evidence.
You provided the Committee with a screenshot of a text
message that is between James Gilliar and you dated May 11,
2017. Do you see this? I do not know if you can see it. If you
cannot see, it is just you and James Gilliar, though, right?
You remember this text message, I am sure.
Mr. Bobulinski. Generally, yes.
Mr. Goldman. All right. And in it, Gilliar writes, ``Man,
you are right. Let's get the company set up, then tell H and
family the high stakes and get Joe involved.'' And 2 days
later, Mr. Gilliar sent an email to you, cc'ing Rob Walker and
Hunter Biden, in which he suggested a division of the company
and included a proposal of, ``10 percent held by H for the `Big
Guy'?'' You remember that, right?
Mr. Bobulinski. The infamous email with the ``Big Guy''?
Mr. Goldman. Yes.
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes, I do.
Mr. Goldman. Did anyone ever respond to that email?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes, they did numerous times.
Mr. Goldman. Sorry. Did anyone ever----
Mr. Bobulinski. Hunter Biden himself did.
Mr. Goldman. Excuse me. Excuse me. You are right. Did
anyone----
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, no, I think that is important----
Mr. Goldman. Sir, did anyone ever--can you answer the
question?
Mr. Bobulinski [continuing]. Because Hunter Biden has
claimed that he did not respond to it, and he responded to it,
I believe, three times.
Mr. Goldman. OK. You are just going to filibuster. I
reclaim my time that is running out, but I will say no one
responded to the ``Big Guy'' reference for 10.
Mr. Bobulinski. Thank you for making my point. They did not
have to respond because they all knew the ``Big Guy'' was Joe
Biden.
Mr. Goldman. Sir, I reclaim my time. Mr. Chairman, please
control the witness. I would like to get a little extra time,
Mr. Chairman, because I want to read what Mr. Gilliar said to
the Wall Street Journal. ``I would like to clear up any
speculation that former Vice President was involved with the
2017 discussions about our potential business structure. I am
unaware of any involvement at any time of the former Vice
President. The activity in question never delivered any project
revenue.'' Nine days later, the agreement without Joe Biden was
signed. You and James Gilliar wanted Joe Biden involved, and
that is why Hunter Biden dumped you and did the business on his
own, and I yield back.
Mr. Bobulinski. That is a blatant lie, Mr. Goldman. You
know better.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair
now recognizes Mr. Higgins from Louisiana for 5 minutes.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bobulinski, thank
you for being here today, and we appreciate the candor of your
responses, sir, which is reflective of the way you handled
yourself in private testimony and deposition, so I thank you
for communicating truthfully to the American people today. I am
going to ask you about the China Energy Fund Committee, the
CEFC. You are familiar with that, sir?
Mr. Bobulinski. I am.
Mr. Higgins. Was this a multibillion-dollar company like a
Fortune 500 company at one time before they went bankrupt?
Mr. Bobulinski. It is even bigger than that. If you go back
and look at its financials in 2016 and 2017, it was probably
one of the five largest private companies in China.
Mr. Higgins. Exactly. So, this was a major operation that
had a lot of money. I am going to hold up a memo here.
[Chart]
This is a chart from the Second Bank memo, and it shows
disbursement of a total of almost $24 million for diamonds. So,
you have a major Chinese company spending a lot of money on
diamonds, and apparently, diamonds were used as a means of
payment for the Biden family. We know that the Bidens have
testified, have admitted to having two diamonds. We suspect
that there are many, many more, $23 million worth of diamonds.
Are you familiar with the exchange of valuable assets to pay
the Bidens other than electronic transfers of moneys? Are you
aware of payments in diamonds, payment in cash, payment in
board memberships, et cetera?
Mr. Bobulinski. Am I generally aware of it, or was I
involved?
Mr. Higgins. Yes, sir.
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes, I read Jim Biden's and Hunter Biden's
transcript multiple times. Jim Biden in that transcript
references two diamonds that were given to Hunter Biden. One,
he implies, was in 2015 by an individual, who he couldn't
recall his name, but the individual's name is Scott Oh, who is
a surrogate for CEFC. And then apparently a second diamond was
given at a meeting in Miami, and I really want to set the
record clear. I was not at that physical meeting. I was in
Miami, but I was not at that physical meeting. That is what I
told the FBI in my transcribed interview.
Mr. Higgins. Are you aware, Mr. Bobulinski, of a pattern of
bribery, of bribe payments coming from the China Energy Fund
Committee?
Mr. Bobulinski. I appreciate that question. I wish everyone
on this Committee would read the 1,200 pages of testimony in an
8-day trial in the SDNY, where Mr. Goldman used to work while
the actual trial was going on, that accused numerous
executives, ultimately Patrick Ho, of corruption, bribing,
leaving shoeboxes of cash to a variety of political figures in
Africa.
Mr. Higgins. Exactly. So, Mr. Bobulinski, from your perch
within the Biden family operations and their interactions with
major businesses in China and the exchange of millions of
dollars that are known--we have tracked them through bank
records, through suspicious activity reports, through emails,
through communications that this Committee has documented--
there is no debate that millions and millions of dollars flowed
into the Biden family's bank accounts, but the existence of
other forms of payment is fascinating because diamonds are
untraceable. We really do not know how many diamonds the Bidens
received, do we?
Mr. Bobulinski. We do not, and for somebody who has been to
mainland China probably 10-plus times, Hong Kong probably 15-
plus times, had hundreds of people----
Mr. Higgins. Yes. Let me share----
Mr. Bobulinski. Congressman, I had hundreds of people
working for me in mainland China at one point. I never got a
diamond from any businessman or woman.
Mr. Higgins. I hear you. So, Mr. Bobulinski, I shift
quickly to a text message. Are you familiar with this? It is
from a gentleman named James.
Mr. Bobulinski. Generally, yes.
Mr. Higgins. Yes. It says, ``Don't mention Joe being
involved. It is only when you are face to face. I know you know
that, but they are paranoid,'' and there is a response saying,
``OK, they should be paranoid about things,'' and then there is
a response saying, ``For real.'' So, what is meant by, ``Don't
mention Joe being involved. It is only when you are face to
face. I know you know that, but they are paranoid?''
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, I think it outlines how the Bidens
operated, not specifically just with CEFC. You have Galanis
here testifying and numerous other witnesses that have given
you a tremendous amount of evidence. They work to obfuscate it,
create layers of obstruction. That is the reason why Rob Walker
was getting sent millions of dollars instead of Hunter Biden
directly. That is the reason why Devon Archer was receiving
millions of dollars instead of going to Hunter directly. You
guys have a mountain of evidence that stacks high and answers
that question on how they obfuscated. They lived in a world of
plausible deniability.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Bobulinski. Mr. Chairman, my
time has expired. I yield.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Norton from
D.C. for 5 minutes.
Ms. Norton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Galanis, thank you
for appearing voluntarily for this hearing from Alabama. I
understand you are currently serving a 189-month sentence in
Federal prison, almost 16 years, after being convicted of not
one, not two, but three different schemes. The victims of your
schemes, as the judge who presided over your criminal
prosecution noted, included ``one of the poorest Native
American tribes in the country'', as well as pension funds held
for the benefit of transit workers, longshoremen, housing
authority workers, and city employees, hardworking people,
everyday people, among others. The court also noted that you
personally benefited from these schemes, ``using over $8
million, almost $9 million for lavish personal expenditures,
including home expenses, automobiles, travel, clothing, jewelry
expenses,'' and meanwhile, investors were left with nothing.
But this is not your only encounter with prosecutors. In
another case, the Securities and Exchange Commission charged
you in 2005 with accounting fraud in connection with your
investment--your involvement, rather--with Penthouse Magazine,
and in 2010, you were convicted of attempted tax evasion and
were sentenced to 5 years' probation and ordered to pay nearly
$2 million in restitution. In imposing your prison sentence,
the judge noted that you are ``an extremely talented man,
extremely gifted in his interpersonal skills, uncommonly so. He
is very persuasive as an individual. And those were the tools
in his tool bag of the fraud he committed and the people he
ensnared, his intelligence, his interpersonal skills, his
charm, if you will, and this is something that is not unseen in
people who are commonly referred to as con artists.'' Another
judge who presided over your case referred to you as ``a
skillful con artist.'' A skillful con artist. That is who my
Republican colleagues are relying on to carry their water in
this sham impeachment inquiry after their last star witness,
the author of the infamous FBI Form 1023, was indicted for
lying and outed as a likely Republican agent.
It is time we put an end to this pathetic and desperate
inquiry. I yield my remaining time to Ranking Member Raskin.
Mr. Raskin. Ms. Norton, thank you very much. So, for more
than a year now, we have heard innuendo, rumors, propaganda,
big lies, but no facts, no evidence that could reasonably
support the finding of impeachable high crimes and misdemeanors
against President Biden. In our first real impeachment hearing,
the Majority invited several expert witnesses who came
together. And their witnesses agreed with that, that there was
nothing that remotely approached the level of proof needed to
support a finding of high crimes and misdemeanors that one
would impeach a President for.
And now we come back again today, and the Majority has two
witnesses: one, the designated con man, as determined by two
different Federal courts, not without talent, but someone who
deploys his talent toward the purposes of exploiting Native-
American Indian tribes, pensioners, and other innocent
investors. And then Mr. Bobulinski, who offers a lot of
rhetoric and a lot of hot air, but absolutely no facts that
could indict the President of the United States for high crimes
and misdemeanors, impeachable offenses against the republic,
the kinds of offenses which James Madison said are great
attacks on the republic itself, great affronts to our
republican form of government. And nobody on their side can
even tell us what is the impeachable high crime and
misdemeanor, which suggests that they are moving in the
direction of criminal referrals and they should start by
looking at their own witnesses. I yield back to you, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman Comer. And I would like to remind the Ranking
Member and Ms. Norton, the witness, Mr. Galanis, was partners
with Hunter Biden. That is why he is here. We have their
partners. You could have invited partners, but you invited this
guy.
Mr. Raskin. Yes, Donald Trump's partner, Mr. Parnas, who
was really with Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani.
Chairman Comer. Oh, he was Donald Trump's partner, OK.
All right. The Chair recognizes Mr. Grothman.
Mr. Grothman. Yes. We got a variety of things I would like
to go through. But first, Mr. Lynch complained about Mr.
Galanis testifying from prison. So, I would like to ask
unanimous consent to enter into the record the Department of
Justice's own press release announcing the sentencing of the
Democrats' witness, Lev Parnas, to 20 months in prison for,
among other things, making false statements.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, on Donald Trump's
partner.
Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Now, Mr. Chairman, you know, we
had originally hoped that we would see a few more witnesses
here today. They are not here, but I would like to run a brief
tape because I showed up today hoping I would be asking these
witnesses a little bit more about this tape. I know that, you
know, there is some mystery or some people feel it is still
ambiguous as to how this prosecutor was fired in Ukraine, and I
wonder if this tape could do a little bit more to shed light on
why that prosecutor was fired and why we want Hunter Biden and
Mr. Archer here today.
[Video shown.]
I just wanted to put that up there because I do eventually
want further efforts made to get Hunter Biden or Mr. Archer
here because we have Joe Biden himself bragging that they got
rid of a prosecutor who would have provided his son's business
dealings with a little bit more observation, I will put it that
way.
Now, Mr. Bobulinski, in previous interviews with this
Committee, you said that Joe Biden not only knew about the
family's business dealings, but enabled them and participated
in them. You went so far as to say, ``It is clear to me that
Joe Biden was the brand sold by the Biden family.'' Could you
elaborate a little bit why you felt that way again?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct. That is one of the challenging
things I have had to deal with over the last 4 years with a
focus of just simply telling the truth. The obfuscation around
these facts are just beyond insane. So, I will use a meeting at
the Four Seasons Hotel in Washington, DC that I was not at, but
apparently 8 to 10 Chinese executives of CEFC were at with
Chairman Ye and Director Zhang. Director Zhang I interacted
with extensively, and James Gilliar was in that room, Rob
Walker. Hunter Biden was in that room. And my understanding,
based on Rob Walker's testimony, is that Joe Biden walked into
that room, sat down, shook hands with people, and spent 5 or 10
minutes talking about his family, I guess. I was not in the
room. People have tried to obfuscate that meeting, like Joe
Biden was walking in there to ask about the weather, and Rob
Walker said that the Chinese did not even know that Joe Biden
was the former Vice President of the United States, which is
beyond absurd. The power that those 10 Chinese individuals had
to go back to mainland China and say that they were in a room
with Joe Biden is the value of what they were giving.
Mr. Grothman. OK. You stated that the Biden family
concocted a scheme to give Joe plausible deniability. Could you
elaborate on that a little bit?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, I would just point to all the
different text messages and communications. They call him the
``Big Guy.'' I was not involved with Mr. Galanis or Mr. Archer,
but they are giving you numerous data points. There was
obfuscation. They did not use his name. They used the ``Big
Guy.'' You were not supposed to talk about it. It was just, you
know----
Mr. Grothman. And you personally met with the Vice
President.
Mr. Bobulinski. I did twice.
Mr. Grothman. OK. Did he say anything that indicates that
you wanted him to help his son, that sort of thing?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, he thanked me for helping his son and
his brother and asked me to keep an eye on them as I walked him
out to his car after he gave his speech on the second meeting
of the Milken Conference.
Mr. Grothman. OK. Just one other followup, and this kind of
may be a vague question, but I would like to know it. One of
the things that disturbs me about that is the interaction with
the Chinese--that is what we are dealing with today, but
obviously other countries as well--that, apparently, in their
own mind, the way you deal with the United States is the way
you deal with, say, a corrupt city councilor or something like
that. In other words, you know, you give them money and you get
what you want. Do you want to comment on that, or did you hear
any stories about that, or did you hear stories that they were
surprised how easy it was to buy the U.S. Government?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, I think it----
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired, but
answer the question. Please feel free to answer the question.
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes. I think CEFC, and there is tremendous
evidence, believed that they were bribing the Biden family, and
they were doing it via Hunter Biden.
Mr. Grothman. It is kind of shameful. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. Very good. The Chair now recognizes Mr.
Khanna for 5 minutes.
Mr. Khanna. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Parnas, can you
tell me about your meetings with Dmytro Firtash and why you
believe the Trump Campaign used his services?
Mr. Parnas. Yes. I was sent to meet with Dmytro Firtash
because Dmytro Firtash had resources. He is an oligarch that
was in Vienna waiting to be extradited to the United States,
but he was very close with Vladimir Putin, Ukraine, and lots of
characters in that part of the world. And my objective at the
time was to have him help us lean on Mykola Zlochevsky and get
dirt on the Bidens.
Mr. Khanna. And what type of dirt were you trying to get?
Mr. Parnas. We were searching for Hunter's hard drive that
we were told was out there. We were searching for bank records
to validate certain bank records that was given to me, Hunter's
personal bank records that was given to me by John Solomon that
he said he got from the FBI to validate certain payments that
were going for car purchases. But the objective was to try to
find a link from any of the payments that would go into Joe
Biden's account.
Mr. Khanna. And who told you to get this dirt?
Mr. Parnas. Well, who told me? Rudy Giuliani.
Mr. Khanna. Anyone else that you remember?
Mr. Parnas. John Solomon. I mean everybody that was part of
the team. I mean----
Mr. Khanna. Did Bill Barr know that you were involved in
getting this dirt?
Mr. Parnas. Absolutely. Bill Barr was notified of our
investigation from the day he took office.
Mr. Khanna. Did you ever have a conversation with Bill Barr
of being lenient toward Dmytro in Bill Barr's role as attorney
general?
Mr. Parnas. I personally did not, but I was witness to
Victoria Toensing and Joe diGenova having a conversation with
Bill Barr about Dmytro Firtash.
Mr. Khanna. What did they say to Bill Barr?
Mr. Parnas. Basically, they were telling him that the
charges were false and that he needs to drop the charges and
basically end the case.
Mr. Khanna. And why did they tell him to drop the charges
on this Russian oligarch?
Mr. Parnas. Because Dmytro Firtash was going to help us
getting dirt on the Bidens or whatever else the Trump Campaign
needed.
Mr. Khanna. So, my understanding is you have the Trump
Campaign telling you to talk to a Russian oligarch to get dirt
on the President of the United States for political reasons,
and then someone from the Trump Campaign is talking to the
Attorney General to drop the charges because this foreign
national is helping get dirt on a political candidate?
Mr. Parnas. Absolutely.
Mr. Khanna. Did Bill Barr indicate any willingness to drop
the charges?
Mr. Parnas. After a meeting that Victoria Toensing and Joe
diGenova had with DOJ, they came back and informed me that we
are going to Vienna to tell Dmytro Firtash everything is going
to be OK.
Mr. Khanna. Do you know if Bill Barr in any way told you to
say that?
Mr. Parnas. I was not privy in that meeting, no.
Mr. Khanna. And do you have any evidence that Bill Barr
would have indicated to signal to Dmytro that the charges would
be dropped?
Mr. Parnas. Only from conversations from Rudy Giuliani or
Victoria Toensing.
Mr. Khanna. And what did they say about what Bill Barr
said?
Mr. Parnas. They basically told me that this will be taken
care of as long as Firtash played ball, and that is the message
they relayed to me to tell Firtash.
Mr. Khanna. And they said that Bill Barr was conveying that
to them directly?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, after meetings. There were several
meetings. There was a private meeting where Rudy Giuliani went
and bumped into, actually, Bill Barr at the Trump International
Hotel, and he used that as a moment to take him aside and speak
to him, and then there was certain official meetings through
official channels where Victoria Toensing met with him. So,
yes.
Mr. Khanna. Do you know if anything was done with the
charges?
Mr. Parnas. Until this day, Dmytro Firtash is not here.
Mr. Khanna. Do you believe that Bill Barr should be
investigated for his conduct in potentially dropping these
charges?
Mr. Parnas. I absolutely believe that, but not only that, I
believe Bill Barr should be investigated into the cover up and
trying to silence me to get the truth out of what really
happened in Ukraine.
Mr. Khanna. And explain the cover up and what you believe
he should be investigated, with your last minute.
Mr. Parnas. My arrest was set up strictly to shut me up, to
steal my documents, take away all my information, and turn me
into a crazy man that had no way to prove what was going on,
but the real story was Bill Barr was trying to save Donald
Trump from an impeachment and use me as a scapegoat. What he
did not realize was Donald Trump was not going to stop but
would continue doing what he wanted to do, and that is why it
blew up in Bill Barr's face. He also hired a special counsel,
at the time, Brady, to look into Ukraine. When we tried to
reach out with my attorney to Special Counsel Brady, he never
returned our phone call. Nobody wanted to hear anything I had
to say that had to do with Ukraine, Donald Trump, or Rudy
Giuliani.
Mr. Khanna. Mr. Chairman----
Mr. Raskin. Would the gentleman yield?
Mr. Khanna. Yes.
Mr. Raskin. Thank you. Mr. Parnas, I just want to say you
have stuck to the facts today. We do not hear bombast and
rhetoric from you, but you are telling the true story and you
have conducted yourself with great purpose and great dignity.
And I know your son is here with you today, and I hope he and
the rest of your family are proud of what you are doing for
America. I yield back.
Mr. Parnas. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Donalds from
Florida for 5 minutes.
Mr. Donalds. Thank you, Chairman. It has been an
interesting hearing so far. Let us actually get to the actual
paper trail of money flow from the CEFC into the bank account
for President Joe Biden, and I want to start with a text
message, July 31, a WhatsApp text message between Hunter Biden
and one Mr. Zhao. Real quick. Mr. Bobulinski, who is Mr. Zhao?
Mr. Bobulinski. Congressman Donalds, I would just actually
like to spend 20 seconds. If you noticed, Congressman Khanna
scurried out of here very quickly, and I am actually disgusted
as I sit here that he did not address me based on the fact that
I am sitting here in front of the world trying to testify to
the truth. In October 2020, I have messages that I am going to
produce to both the Democrats and the Republicans that Ro
Khanna sent to me saying, ``You have always demonstrated to me
that you are nothing but an honest with the highest integrity
individual,'' and I was begging for him to go on CNN and tell
the world in October 2020. I have extensive emails with
Congressman Ro Khanna in 2021 and 2022, where I begged him and
his staff to sit down with me and look at my BlackBerry phones
that the Democrats are so focused on, to hire forensics experts
and go through all of the factual information I had. So, the
fact that he did not even address me and then scurried out of
here is disgusting to me. Sorry, Mr. Donalds. I will answer
your question now.
Mr. Donalds. All right. So, we are going to come off of
that because now we are at 3 minutes, 30 seconds.
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes. I apologize----
Mr. Donalds. Mr. Chairman, for the record, I want to submit
into the record two different WhatsApp text messages: one, July
31 between Hunter Biden and Mr. Zhao of CEFC, which stipulates
that Hunter Biden wants to be able to move on and get the
contract resolved, get the deal resolved, and that Mr. Zhao
responds and says, ``Yes, the CEFC is willing to cooperate with
the family.''
On August 31, there is another exchange, August 3, 2017,
excuse me, between Hunter Biden and Mr. Gongwen Dong, and in
this message, they are talking about the stipulations of the
arrangement between the Biden family and CEFC. I want to submit
both WhatsApp text messages for the record, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Donalds. OK. Now, to the money flow because this is
where the rubber meets the road. On August 3, they actually
stipulate through WhatsApp text messages the exact stipulations
of the deal. On August 4, $100,000 is wired into Owasco P.C.
from CEFC Infrastructure.
Mr. Chairman, I want to submit for the record a portion of
the bank statement for the time period of August 3 of 2017 to
August 31, 2017, stipulating $100,000 going from CEFC into the
bank account of Hunter Biden through Owasco, P.C.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Donalds. On August 8, 4 days later, $5 million is then
transferred from the Northern International Capital account of
$5 million to Hudson West III. Hudson West III is a bank
account controlled by Hunter Biden and Mr. Gongwen, a/k/a Kevin
Dong, who was a CEFC associate. That money comes from a
Northern International Capital Bank account, a bank account
that is tied to the CCP.
Mr. Chairman, I want to submit for the record the bank
statement demonstrating that transfer.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Donalds. OK. Moving on. On August 8, the same time
period, there is a wire transfer of $400,000 to Owasco P.C.
from the Hudson West III bank account. That $400,000, Mr.
Chairman, I have the transfer records in the bank accounts from
the August time period. I want to submit that for the record.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Donalds. Now, here is where the fun stuff comes in,
everybody, and I got a minute to do it, so we are going to get
this done. On August 14, there is $150,000 that is transferred
from Owasco, P.C., which is controlled by Hunter Biden, to Lion
Hall Group, which is controlled by James Biden. I have the
records here, Mr. Chairman, of the $150,000 that has gone to
Lion Hall Group from Owasco, P.C. I want to submit that for the
record.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Donalds. On August 28, and I believe we have a
screenshot for everybody in the room.
[Chart]
On August 28, Mr. Chairman, we have the withdrawal ticket
from Lion Hall Group that is signed by Sara Biden, who is the
wife of Jim Biden, for $50,000 to withdraw from Lion Hall
Group. I want to submit that withdrawal receipt for the record,
Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Donalds. On August 28, actually, Mr. Chairman, we have
the deposit reference into Sara Jones Biden's account on the
same day she withdrew it from Lion Hall. I want to submit that
for the record.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Donalds. Last document. On September 3, 2007, from Sara
Biden's own personal account, there is a check that is written
to Joseph Robinette Biden, Jr., the President of the United
States today, for $40,000, signed loan repayment, a loan
repayment, by the way, that Joe Biden's own personal
accountant, Mr. Eric Schwerin, has no record for. I want to
submit that for the record, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Donalds. To the Members of the Committee, it is clear
that the source of this money came from CEFC and that CEFC is a
company that is directly linked to the CCP and actually, the
chairman of the CCP, and the chairman of the Chinese Communist
Party, Chairman Xi Jinping. With that, I yield.
Chairman Comer. Very good.
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, I have got a UC request, if it is
OK.
Chairman Comer. Go ahead.
Mr. Raskin. First, ``A White House For Sale,'' the staff
report of the Minority side, which details the CEFC's business
interactions with Donald Trump. They own a $5.5 million unit in
Trump World Tower and others. And then the Department of
Justice press release announcing the sentencing of Jason
Galanis in Federal court to term of 189 months in prison,
ordering him to pay restitution of more than $80 million for
three criminal fraud conspiracies against a Native-American
tribe, pension funds, and other investors.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Mfume for 5
minutes.
Mr. Mfume. Mr. Chairman, thank you. I am sitting here and I
am imagining what I would be thinking if I were not here but
rather somewhere around the country watching the Congress of
the United States and, in this case, this Committee for 15
months hold these hearings on Hunter Biden and come up with not
one impeachable offense in all that time, 15 months, over
10,000 documents and more, as you can see today, as a result of
that.
This is a do-nothing Congress, and we should be doing the
jobs that we were sent here to do, which is not to have
investigation hearing after investigation hearing over and over
and over again and then run to our favorite TV outlet to give
interviews afterwards. We were sent here to get a job done.
Taxpayers are looking at all of us. Meanwhile, Americans,
Black, White, Asian, Latino, Native American, and their
families are wondering what the hell is going on. Is this
another investigation hearing, in this 15 months, that has
yielded nothing at all? It is the do-nothing Congress. You
thought Harry Truman said it in 1948. Anybody can say it today.
Look at what we have done in 15 months. Virtually nothing.
Nothing at all.
Senior citizens sit in their homes and watch C-SPAN or some
other outlet carry this. Some of them sitting in nursing homes.
All of them worried about losing their Social Security. They
are on fixed incomes, and they expect the Congress to use its
time and its energy to deal with things that affect them
directly. Students are defaulting on loans to colleges all over
the country, and no one wants to talk about that. Healthcare is
not adequate in most places in this country, and diseases are
ravaging our communities, and people assume that at some point
the Congress will deal with that. And so, whether it is cancer,
cardiovascular disease, kidney disease, diabetes, HIV, stroke,
the disparities in the health system, say please, please give
us a little bit of your time also when you are not dealing with
Hunter Biden and when you cannot prove that he has done
anything wrong.
Crime is out of control, white collar as well as black
collar, and assault weapons are still being used every day to
shoot and kill innocent children and Americans, and we are
sitting up here talking about something that we have talked
about for 15 months with no substantial evidence. Cannot get
humanitarian aid to Palestine. Cannot get military aid to the
Ukraine. Children are looking and wondering what the hell is
going on? Is that what politics are about?
So, we are doing a disservice. I know I am supposed to be
asking questions, and, Mr. Parnas, I may have one or two for
you. But I am so outraged at a do-nothing Congress just
pointing the finger, pointing the finger over and over again,
and people are hurting, looking for real help. Cannot deal with
immigration because Donald Trump calls up and kills the
immigration bill, and yet people say that is the major issue.
Is it? I have not seen the sort of attention that we thought we
were putting to that or anything else. And so, this particular
hearing will probably be followed by another hearing and
another hearing and another hearing until this Congress expires
in January of next year, and we have not done a damn thing to
move the ball forward except make accusations. Life is too
short.
Now, maybe some of you have a guarantee you are going to be
around forever, but I do not. I came to this body first in
1987. I worked under Ronald Reagan and the first Bush, and Bill
Clinton and Donald Trump, and now Joe Biden. This Congress is
not doing anything. It is not like the previous Congresses,
trust me. That is why people have such a low esteem of those of
us who say well, ``I am Congressman so-and-so.'' People on the
street do not buy that. They do not see the action. So, I am
done. I know I have exhausted my time.
Mr. Parnas, a couple of quick questions, and I will let you
go. Is it your understanding that Rudy Giuliani worked for an
individual identified by the Trump Administration as a Russian
agent?
Mr. Parnas. Yes.
Mr. Mfume. Do you know what these Russian lying actors were
trying to do? Quickly.
Mr. Parnas. Push a conspiracy theory about the Bidens.
Mr. Mfume. Did you warn Rudy Giuliani?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, I did.
Mr. Mfume. And what was his response? Succinctly.
Mr. Parnas. I mean he agreed with me, but then proceeded to
work with these people behind my back.
Mr. Mfume. And these people have been identified as Russian
agents?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Mfume. And we have got a meeting here of Mr. Giuliani
with one of those. I am disgusted, as most people are, about
this process. And the only way we get to a point where we get
things done is that we learn to talk to one another across the
aisle without having another conspiracy theory after another
one after another one. You do not buy trust that way. You buy
contempt. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Lisa McClain for 5
minutes.
Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to start off
by saying I think most Americans are taught at a very young age
that you are who you surround yourself with. I keep that in a
premise as I sat here and listened to everyone talk about how
Hunter Biden is just this golden boy. I mean, are we really
supposed to believe that Hunter Biden is the golden boy? His
associates, such as Jason Galanis and Devon Archer, are felons
convicted of fraud, yet he is the golden child. I want to talk
about examples of Biden's influence peddling scheme. This time
it was Romania. It follows the same general pattern as we have
seen with other countries like China, Russia, Ukraine, and
Kazakhstan. Here is the pattern. It is really simple. A corrupt
foreign oligarch needs access to the U.S. Government. Hunter
Biden sells influence to the U.S. Government. The oligarchs pay
up. So, let us just take a deeper dive into this Romanian
scheme.
Mr. Bobulinski, who is Gabriel Popoviciu?
Mr. Bobulinski. Gabriel Popoviciu is a businessman from
Romania, probably worth hundreds of millions of dollars, I
would envision.
Mrs. McClain. OK. Is it true that Gabriel Popoviciu faced
corruption charges in Romania in 2015?
Mr. Bobulinski. It is.
Mrs. McClain. Thank you. And when you were in Europe with
the Bidens to close on that CEFC deal with the Chinese, you
separately negotiated with Popoviciu to get a 17th payment. Is
that also correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. I did.
Mrs. McClain. OK. But Popoviciu did not want to pay him. Is
that correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct. You are talking about a 17th
payment that would go to Rob Walker, and then Rob Walker would
distribute to Hunter Biden.
Mrs. McClain. That is correct. And is it because Hunter
Biden had failed in the work he was engaged by Popoviciu to do,
which was to get the corruption charges dismissed by the
Romanian authorities? Isn't that correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, it was two things. That they had
failed to do that, but also that Joe Biden had left the White
House at that point.
Mrs. McClain. OK. So, there is a dot. So, I get 16 payments
while Joe Biden is in the White House.
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Mrs. McClain. But after Joe Biden leaves the White House,
coincidentally the payments stop?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Mrs. McClain. OK. I just want to make sure that we can
connect the dots very simply.
Mr. Bobulinski. But obviously, it was not a coincidence.
Mrs. McClain. Right. I am not much for coincidences, which
neither are the American people, but, Mr. Bobulinski, what do
you think Popoviciu wanted Hunter Biden to do?
Mr. Bobulinski. I do not have to think because Gabriel told
me personally and did not want the details. He expected Hunter
Biden, Rob Walker, and James Gilliar to do whatever was
necessary to impact his case in Romania.
Mrs. McClain. Well, how do you know that?
Mr. Bobulinski. Because Gabriel Popoviciu told me that.
Mrs. McClain. From his mouth?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes.
Mrs. McClain. OK. So, there is another dot that we can
connect. Would that be a conspiracy theory?
Mr. Bobulinski. That is not a conspiracy theory.
Mrs. McClain. OK. Thank you.
Mr. Bobulinski. I would encourage you to interview Gabriel
Popoviciu.
Mrs. McClain. Thank you. Lastly, after claiming he wanted a
public hearing, Hunter Biden decided to skip today. Why do you
think he skipped the hearing today?
Mr. Bobulinski. Is that a rhetorical, or a serious? Well, I
do not think he wanted to sit next to me because, obviously, I
have emphatically stated he perjured himself in his transcribed
interview with the committee, as did his uncle, Jim Biden. And
for every fact he claims or wants to say I was high on drugs or
obfuscate, I can show a document, a text message, a recording
that confirms that he is lying.
Mrs. McClain. Well, let us not let the facts get in the way
of a good story, right? Here are the facts.
Mr. Bobulinski. Highly disappointing that he is not here,
though.
Mrs. McClain. I would agree. I would agree. Here are the
facts. Hunter Biden was engaged by a foreign principal, Gabriel
Popoviciu. It is well known that Hunter Biden met with the
Ambassador to Romania, Hans Klemm, in November 2015. Hunter
Biden was not registered under FARA. He stopped getting paid as
soon as his father leaves office until you got Popoviciu to
send Hunter Biden one more payment. Seriously, what services
was Hunter Biden providing to the Romanian oligarchs for
millions of dollars? We have yet to hear it. As far as the
Committee knows, Hunter Biden was never registered under the
Foreign Agents Registration Act. If the Department of Justice
applied the same standards it did in the Paul Manafort case,
Hunter would be in more trouble than he is already in.
Mr. Chairman, there are real FARA issues here that we need
to continue to look at. And with that, I thank you for being
here, and I thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Absolutely. Thank you. Good job. The Chair
now recognizes Ms. Ocasio-Cortez from New York.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Bobulinski, I
heard your opening statement. It is submitted to the record,
part of our proceedings. I have a quick question, simple. Is it
your testimony today that you personally witnessed President
Joe Biden commit a crime?
Mr. Bobulinski. I believe the fact that he was sitting with
me while I was putting together a business deal----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Did you witness the President commit a
crime? Is it your testimony today?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And what crime have you witnessed?
Mr. Bobulinski. How much time do I have to go through it?
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. It is simple. You name the crime. Did
you watch him steal something?
Mr. Bobulinski. Corruption statutes, RICO, and conspiracy,
FARA.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. What is the crime, sir, specifically?
Mr. Bobulinski. You asked me to answer the question. I
answered the question. RICO. You are obviously not familiar
with the corruption statute. FARA.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Excuse me, sir. Excuse me, sir. RICO is
not a crime. It is a category. What is the crime?
Mr. Bobulinski. It is the category of crimes that you are
then charged under----
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. You have charges. Sir, please name----
Mr. Bobulinski. You want me to name the exact statute under
RICO?
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Yes.
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, it is funny. In this committee room--
everyone is not here--there are over 18 lawyers that went to
law school.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. All right, sir. I reclaim my time. I
reclaim my time.
Mr. Bobulinski. I will leave it up to you guys to define
the statute under RICO.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. OK. Thank you, sir. I reclaim my time.
Clearly, what we are seeing here today is a continuation of the
15-month saga of the Republican Majority lost in the desert.
Impeachment 101: the Majority party or whomever is raising
impeachment must accuse the President of a specific high crime
or misdemeanor. I would like to submit to the record H. Res.
918, the House resolution to open this impeachment inquiry.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. This resolution does not outline a high
crime or misdemeanor. It is not here. Now, when we compare the
Chairman's opening from his previous opening, he is talking
about Ukraine and Burisma and all of this. This entire inquiry
is based on a blockbuster piece of information that was in a
classified SCIF room, and inside that room was a document
alleging President Biden, directly, of a $10 million bribery
scheme. A $10 million bribery scheme is extremely serious. What
happened? What happened a month ago, Mr. Chairman? The FBI
arrested the person who offered those allegations for
falsifying his testimony to the FBI. This entire impeachment
inquiry is based on an actual, provable individual who has
lied.
Now, responsible leadership would withdraw an inquiry based
on that. Withdraw it. Instead, what we are seeing is that this
Committee was warned about the falsehoods of these allegations
long before that, warned by Trump Secretary of State, Mike
Pompeo, and yet they proceeded anyway. The Chairman proceeded
anyway. This Committee was warned by Rudy Giuliani associate
right here, Lev Parnas, after that document about the
falsehoods of this, then held hearings, where your own expert
witnesses said that there was no ground for impeachment, and
you proceeded anyway.
And finally, as if none of this was enough, the FBI
arrested the individual who was the source of the entire
``heart of the matter'' to launch this impeachment inquiry, and
proceeded anyway. At this point, the story is not the fact that
the basis of this impeachment inquiry is wrong. The story is
why it is proceeding anyway. Why is this Committee proceeding
based on false charges, and, by the way, no charges? I have yet
to hear in the Chairman's opening the allegation that they are
specifically charging the President of the United States with.
I am hearing about the Biden family. I am hearing about this
and that. I am not hearing the specific allegation by this
Committee. What is it? It is not here, and that is the problem.
The story is when this Committee knew that they were working
with falsified evidence. That is the story. And with that, I
yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair now
recognizes Ms. Mace from South Carolina for 5 minutes.
Ms. Mace. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On March 1, 2024, Joe
Biden stated he did not interact with Hunter or Jim Biden
business associates. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask
unanimous consent to enter into the record a New York Post
article, ``Biden Insists He Did Not Interact With'' family
business partners.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Mace. We are going to go fast here. I have strictly
``yes'' or ``no'' questions. On that note, the New York Post
article, Joe Biden also said read the record of every single
witness, so I did. I first read Devon Archer's deposition, and
he interacted with Joe Biden. Then I read the transcripts of
Rob Walker, Eric Schwerin, George Berges, Kevin Morris, Tony
Bobulinski, and Jason Galanis, and every single one of them
interacted with Joe Biden, and that is just the people we
interviewed.
Mr. Galanis, my first questions are for you. Did Hunter
Biden call Joe Biden with Yelena Baturina on the line on May 4,
2014. Yes or no?
Mr. Galanis. Yes.
Ms. Mace. In that call, did Hunter Biden state on this call
with Joe Biden that ``everything is good and we are moving
forward''?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, he did.
Ms. Mace. OK. On the same call, did Joe Biden in the call
was saying, ``OK then. You be good to my boy?''
Mr. Galanis. Yes, he said that as well.
Ms. Mace. OK. Did Baturina agree to put $20 million into
one of Hunter Biden's business projects days later after this
phone call?
Mr. Galanis. Yes.
Ms. Mace. OK. Did Hunter Biden ever take a call from Joe
Biden while at the Peninsula Bar in New York?
Mr. Galanis. I am sorry. I did not hear that.
Ms. Mace. Did Hunter Biden ever take a call from Joe Biden
while at the Peninsula Bar in New York?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, he did.
Ms. Mace. During this call did Hunter Biden update Joe
Biden on progress on landing a business partnership with
Harvest Fund Management?
Mr. Galanis. Yes.
Ms. Mace. OK. Was Harvest a $300 billion Chinese financial
services company closely tied to the Chinese Communist Party?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, it was.
Ms. Mace. OK.
Mr. Galanis. And, it is.
Ms. Mace. Is Hunter Biden involved with Harvest?
Mr. Galanis. Hunter Biden is involved with Harvest in two
ways, through BHR, which is a fund that Harvest is----
Ms. Mace. Is Hunter Biden involved with Harvest? Yes or no.
Mr. Galanis. Yes.
Ms. Mace. OK. As part of the deal----
Mr. Galanis. And sent an email to that effect.
Ms. Mace. As part of the deal, did Hunter Biden want the
company to reserve a board seat for Joe Biden?
Mr. Galanis. Yes.
Ms. Mace. OK. Did Henry Zhao, a Chinese businessman, want
assurances that Joe Biden would join the board? Yes or no.
Mr. Galanis. Yes, he did.
Ms. Mace. OK. Did Hunter Biden----
Mr. Galanis. He discussed that in emails as well, and in
conversations.
Ms. Mace. OK. Thank you. Did Hunter Biden draft an email
stating, ``Please also remind Henry Zhao of our conversation
about a board seat for a certain relation of mine. Devon and I
golfed with that relation earlier this week and we discussed
this very idea again, and as always, he remains very, very keen
on the opportunity.''
[Chart]
Here is a photo of Joe Biden and Devon Archer and Hunter
Biden golfing days before the alleged email draft. Do you
believe a certain relation of mine refers to Joe Biden?
Mr. Galanis. I do not think there is any question. It was
based on firsthand conversations with Devon Archer, who was in
that picture and in that golf meeting, yes.
Ms. Mace. Did you ever meet with Devon Archer where Hunter
took calls from his father?
Mr. Galanis. Yes.
Ms. Mace. OK. During one of these phone calls, did Hunter
Biden tell Joe Biden that he and Henry Zhao needed help
``getting across the finish line?''
Mr. Galanis. Yes, that is correct.
Ms. Mace. OK. Mr. Bobulinski, do you recall receiving an
email that floated the possibility of giving 10-percent
ownership of SinoHawk to Joe Biden through Hunter Biden?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes.
Ms. Mace. OK. My last questions are for both of you very
quickly. Mr. Bobulinski and Mr. Galanis, you both stated you
were told not to use Joe Biden's name in communications,
correct? Mr. Bobulinski?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Ms. Mace. Mr. Galanis?
Mr. Galanis. Yes.
Ms. Mace. OK. Did Joe Biden participate in phone
conversations and meetings with Hunter Biden and his business
associates and foreign interest? Yes or no, Mr. Bobulinski?
Mr. Bobulinski. He clearly did. He met them twice----
Ms. Mace. OK. Mr. Galanis, yes or no?
Mr. Galanis. Yes.
Ms. Mace. OK. In Hunter Biden's deposition, he said he did
not involve his father in his business. Did Hunter Biden lie
under oath? Yes or no, Mr. Bobulinski?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes.
Ms. Mace. Mr. Galanis?
Mr. Galanis. If that is what he said, yes, that would be
untrue.
Ms. Mace. OK. Is Joe Biden lying when he says he did not
interact with Hunter Biden, Jim Biden, their business partners,
or foreign interest? Yes or no.
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes.
Ms. Mace. Mr. Galanis?
Mr. Galanis. Yes.
Ms. Mace. All right. In a debate on October 22d, 2020, Joe
Biden denied Hunter Biden made money from China. Did Hunter
Biden, his business associates, and foreign interests include
money from Chinese businesses, business partners, and/or
interests? Yes or no. Mr. Bobulinski?
Mr. Bobulinski. I am sorry. Did the Biden family make
money----
Ms. Mace. Did Hunter Biden receive money from Chinese
business interests?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct. Yes.
Ms. Mace. Mr. Galanis, did Hunter Biden receive money from
Chinese business interests? Yes or no.
Mr. Galanis. Yes, he was.
Ms. Mace. OK. Thank you.
Mr. Galanis. Yes, he had economic interest, and, yes----
Ms. Mace. All right.
Mr. Galanis [continuing]. He was----
Ms. Mace. Joe Biden has repeatedly claimed that he was not
involved in Hunter Biden, Jim Biden, or any other Biden family
business deals. Today, our witnesses have proved otherwise.
Today, we have established Joe Biden lied about interacting
with Hunter Biden's business associates. It is my belief Joe
Biden is the closer for Hunter Biden, Jim Biden, and their
business associates and foreign interests. Good luck to the
left proving otherwise. Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair now
recognizes Ms. Porter from California.
Ms. Porter. The title of this hearing is, ``Influence
Peddling: Examining Joe Biden's Abuse of Public Office.'' Look,
the impeachment inquiry is dead. If it was on life support, my
colleague Ocasio-Cortez just killed it. There is no allegation
of a specific crime. President Biden did not do anything wrong.
There is zero evidence of that, and sill, both Democrats and
Republicans and the media treat these hearings like the Super
Bowl, but no one ever wins, and Americans always lose. So, I
have got a fresh direction for this hearing.
[Chart]
All we have to do is cross off the part after the colon,
there, just ``Influence Peddling.'' We should have a policy
discussion about how to stop government officials from using
their positions to get money or favors. Now that is a real
hearing, one that nearly every American, regardless of party,
wants us to hold. We could start by talking about how senior
executive branch officials can leave public service, wait just
1 year, and then legally become lobbyists for big corporations,
scoring their new employer's profitable government contracts
and favorable regulations. They can even be paid by the big
corporations during that short 1 year while they are waiting to
become lobbyists as a downpayment for their future ability to
peddle influence. That is wrong. For the panel of witnesses, by
show of hands, as Americans, would our witnesses support
extending this 1 year waiting period to at least 2 years?
Mr. Bobulinski. I would.
Ms. Porter. OK. So, there we go. Republicans, Democrats,
even convicted criminals, everybody supports that we should do
more to stop influence peddling. This is the kind of good
government reform that Americans of all political stripes
support, and I should know. In 2022, I passed that exact reform
as an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act with
a bipartisan majority vote. What happened to that amendment?
Why didn't it become law? The answer is simple: nearly 500
former Members of Congress work for lobbying firms, and too
many people around here want to follow in their footsteps and
so do not want to make it harder for government officials to
become lobbyists. Ultimately, Democratic leadership under then-
Speaker Nancy Pelosi let the amendment get stripped out of the
final bill. When I offered up the amendment again during this
Congress, Republican leadership under then-Speaker Kevin
McCarthy never even put the amendment up for a vote. Both
parties have let us down on fighting influence peddling and
tackling corruption, but I am hopeful we can begin a new
approach in this very Committee.
The American people, regardless of party, should know that
an investigation was conducted into whether Joe Biden did
anything wrong. We followed the evidence to where it led: a
dead end. So, this impeachment inquiry should end today. And
where should we go from here? We should stop partisan attacks
on each other and address the real problem, that the American
people believe that the rules that prevent corruption are way
too weak. To stop politicians on both sides of the aisle from
influence peddling, this Committee should be working together
in a bipartisan way to change the culture of Congress, to crack
down on influence peddling and corruption, and, just as
importantly, to stop the perception of it.
Let me give you some facts. I do not even need a whiteboard
for this one: 495 former Members of Congress work for lobbying
firms. Four-hundred-and-sixty-seven Members of Congress take
corporate PAC money. Seventy-eight Members of Congress violated
the STOCK Act last Congress. Clearly, we have our work cut out
for us. So, let us start the conversation today on what a
bipartisan ethics reform package could look like.
[Chart]
Here are the organizations that could have come today as
witnesses so we could have had a productive conversation.
Oversight staff, do you have your notebooks ready? Citizens for
Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, Common Cause, Project
on Government Oversight, Public Citizen. With the right
witnesses and the commitment to doing what the American people
want, this Committee can have a real conversation about the
problem of influence peddling. And we can pass legislation to
create badly needed ethics guardrails. That would be real work,
not a real circus. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. Before I recognize Mr. Timmons, Ms. Porter,
I think you are sincere, and I look forward to working with you
on that legislation.
Ms. Porter. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Parnas. Chairman, can we take a 5-minute break? I need
to go to the bathroom.
Chairman Comer. Let us get one more, and then we will do
that.
The Chair recognizes Mr. Timmons for 5 minutes, then we
will take a break because we have votes coming up anyway.
Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At our hearing last
July, I laid out the scheme that the Bidens concocted to sell
the Biden brand, netting almost $30 million for various members
of the Biden family. This scheme was repeated with various
clients in Kazakhstan, China, Romania, Russia, and Ukraine. I
am going to spend my time on just one instance, Ukraine,
specifically involving Burisma, which netted Hunter over $3
million during a 3-year period. And to clarify the criminal
offenses being alleged, for Hunter Biden, it is conspiracy to
commit bribery, 18 U.S.C., Section 201(b)(2)(A) and (C), and
for Joe Biden, it is conspiracy to commit extortion under color
of official right, 18 U.S.C., Section 1951 (b)(2). And if you
want a refresher on those, just look up Senator Menendez and
his wife's indictment.
[Chart]
So, let us start with this. Foreign client has a problem. I
have got an email here from Vadym Pozharsky, the secretary of
Burisma, and he is advocating that Hunter Biden intervened with
high-level U.S. officials to facilitate meetings and
communications expressing their positive opinion of Zlochevsky,
the president of Burisma, to the Ukrainian President, chief of
staff, prosecutor general, with the ultimate purpose to close
down any cases against Zlochevsky in Ukraine. This is dated
November 2. Now, keep in mind, and again, foreign client has a
problem. Zlochevsky is being investigated by Viktor Shokin, the
Inspector General of Ukraine, and he needs help, the Biden
brand. So, here we got bank records galore of Hunter Biden
receiving, prior to this email, over a million dollars. After
this email, $2 million. You will find out in a second, he
really earned his fee. So, again, client pays Biden $3 million.
[Chart]
Next. What is it? What happens? What happens? This is
great. Eleven days later, we have the U.S. embassy in Ukraine
announcing that Vice President Biden is traveling to Ukraine on
December 7. Oh, interesting. Vice President Biden travels to
the country. Here we got a great photo of him touching down.
They are very proud of themselves. So, Vice President Biden
leverages U.S. policy to achieve a favorable outcome for the
client. We have all seen the video. He brags about leveraging
U.S. foreign loan guarantees to get the Ukrainian Government to
fire Viktor Shokin to end the investigation.
Again, we have got the email from Pozharsky saying that we
need to leverage you, who have not provided value yet for your
million dollars in service, Hunter. He brings in the ``Big
Guy.'' Biden leverages U.S. influence, withholds a billion
dollars in loan guarantee to fire Shokin. So, if that is not
enough, we got the victory lap here. We got an email just a few
months later saying, whoa, we won in less than a year. You
brought us in, so take a victory lap.
So, look, I mean, this is straightforward. This is
straightforward: pay to play. It is bribery. Hunter Biden was
paid $3 million at the lowest point in his life. He testified
in the deposition that he was drug addicted, that he has never
been to Ukraine, yet he is paid $3 million to get his father to
go to solve his client's problem. That is the scheme. Mr.
Bobulinski, does this sound like the scheme that you have seen
the Biden family do?
Mr. Bobulinski. I was not involved in Ukraine, but the
facts surrounding this are very similar to CEFC and Romania.
Mr. Timmons. Thank you for that. So, this is the thing. If
Hunter Biden were here, we would be able to ask him some
questions, maybe clear this up, but he is not. He is not here.
And what is interesting is that just yesterday, Peter Navarro
reported to Federal prison in Miami for 4 months for not
showing up in front of the January 6th Committee. And I want to
point out to everybody that the January 6 Committee was
procedurally defective under House rules. It was procedurally
defective because the Minority leader did not get to appoint
Members to that Committee. The U.S. House of Representatives
Oversight and Accountability Committee is a procedurally
perfect Committee, and we have authority to subpoena Hunter
Biden, and he has to show up. He has to answer these questions,
and he has to tell the world that his father did not leverage
U.S. foreign policy so he would get $3 million. This is no
different than what Senator Menendez did.
And look, the American people are not buying this nonsense
you all are selling. We must restore their faith in our
institutions, and we have to stop this ridiculous two-tiered
system of justice where the Department of Justice persecutes
President Trump and hides Hunter Biden behind every corner. I
mean, this is not the United States of America that the
American people deserve, and we have to get our country back on
track. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Moskowitz. Mr. Chairman, pardon my inquiry. Did the
Committee subpoena Hunter Biden today?
Chairman Comer. Pursuant to the previous order and at the
request of the Minority witness, the Chair declares the
Committee in recess for 10 minutes. Then we are going to come
back in here, and then we may have to recess again for votes.
[Recess.]
Chairman Comer. The Committee will resume. The Chair now
recognizes Ms. Brown from Ohio for 5 minutes.
Ms. Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Today's hearing is
another unfortunate attempt by my Republican colleagues to
muddy the water in an election year with no proof, no evidence,
no wrongdoing at all by President Biden. The American people
are tired of this charade. As I said before, my Republican
colleagues simply grasp at straws that do not exist.
While House Democrats in the Biden-Harris Administration
work to cut costs of prescription drugs, expand student loan
forgiveness, and mitigate the threat of gun violence,
Republican Members of Congress continue to chase after Russian
disinformation campaigns from the 2020 election, which have
been thoroughly debunked again and again, and as usual, in this
Committee, we know who is in charge. It is the bondless, broke,
bluffer, twice impeached, four times indicted, insurrection
initiator, election denying, self-declared dictator on day one,
and puppet for Putin. The one who wants to terminate the
Constitution and defund the FBI. The one who romanticizes
exchanging of love letters with North Korean dictator, Kim Jong
Un. The one who just last week embraced autocrat Orban of
Hungary to discuss their diabolical plans to destroy our
democracy. The one who proposed the policy to ban Muslims from
this country. The one who just this week said any Jewish person
who votes for a Democrat hates their religion and Israel. The
one who called Neo-Nazis carrying tiki torches, chanting ``Jews
will not replace us,'' good people. The one who referred to
African nations as ``shithole'' countries. The one who called
NFL players, the majority whom are black, sons of bitches for
taking a knee in protest of the ever-present racial inequality
and police brutality that continues to pervade our justice
system. The one who called Mexicans rapists and promised to
build a wall and have them pay for it, and, in case you missed
it, it did not happen.
The one who told women of color born in the United States,
elected to Congress, and serving on this very Committee to go
back to their own countries. The one who bragged about grabbing
women by their private parts. The one who confused his rape
victim whom he claimed was not his type for his very own ex-
wife. The one who is an admitted and committed adultery, who
attempted to pay off a porn star for her silence. The one who
has publicly mocked people with disabilities. The one who
dodged the draft and referred to prisoners of war as losers,
the very people who pay a high price so we can enjoy the
freedoms that far too many of us take for granted. The one who
boasted about being able to stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue
and shoot someone and not lose votes.
The one who promoted political and physical violence
multiple times, including most recently at my rally in my home
state of Ohio, where he declared there would be a bloodbath if
he did not win. The one who intentionally denied COVID was
deadly and eventually suggested injecting bleach into our
bodies to kill the respiratory virus that took the lives of 1
million people in the United States. The one who ordered his
son-in-law get top secret security clearance, overruling
concerns flagged by intelligence officials, who, according to
this Committee's Chairman, admitted the former President's son-
in-law crossed the line of ethics by accepting a $2 billion
investment into that very same son-in-law's fledgling firm,
only 6 months after leaving the White House.
If any of this sounds crazy, it is because it is. This
might sound unbelievable, but it is all true. These are facts,
indisputable facts, a thing that is known and proven to be
true. This may be a foreign concept to some of my colleagues,
but for those of us who still have a relationship with the
truth, please know this is not an exhaustive list of
inappropriate, unethical, and questionable behavior by the
maniacal manipulator of Mar-a-Lago because I could go on, but I
only have 5 minutes.
Yet here we are, again, trying to make sense out of
nonsense. I would humbly, respectfully ask my Republican
colleagues on this Committee to stop falling over yourself to
win the approval of one because millions of people are
depending on you to defend our delicate democracy. And with
that, I yield the remainder of my time to the Ranking Member.
Chairman Comer. You have seconds.
Mr. Raskin. Oh, I do not know there is much time left, but
thank you for that eloquent and compressed recitation of some
of what we have lived with over the last few years.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. LaTurner from
Kansas for 5 minutes.
Mr. LaTurner. Mr. Bobulinski, I want to talk about May
2017. To be clear, Hunter Biden was doing business with CEFC
while his dad was VP. Are you aware of that now?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes.
Mr. LaTurner. Rob Walker told us that during his
transcribed interview before the Committee, but I want to talk
to you about your meeting with Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, and Jim
Biden in May 2017. Other Members are going to bring up the
meeting you have had with Joe Biden at the Beverly Hilton the
night before the Milken Conference, but I want to talk about
the next day when you went as Joe Biden's guest to the Milken
Conference. So, you watched Joe Biden deliver a speech that
day, then you had a followup conversation with Joe Biden. Isn't
that correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Mr. LaTurner. What did Joe Biden tell you during that
conversation?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, as I have already publicly shared, I
was brought backstage by his team because he had just given his
keynote and we just exchanged pleasantries. And then I walked
him out to his car, and he specifically thanked me for the work
I was doing with his son and his brother and asked me to keep
an eye on them.
Mr. LaTurner. And my understanding is, Mr. Bobulinski, that
after Joe Biden had left, you went across the street to the
Peninsula Hotel and had a long conversation with his brother,
Jim Biden. Isn't that correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. I did.
Mr. LaTurner. It is my understanding that you asked him how
the Biden family does the business that they do while Joe Biden
is such a prominent political figure. What was Jim Biden's
response to you?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct. I was actually concerned and
asking from a position of concern, and Jim Biden's response to
me was plausible deniability.
Mr. LaTurner. Plausible deniability. And by that, you mean
Joe Biden would be kept in the loop, but you were not supposed
to talk about it, especially in writing. Mr. Galanis, during
your transcribed interview with the Committees, you said a very
interesting phrase, ``Say it, forget it, write it, regret it.''
Does this sound familiar? Is this consistent with your
understanding of how the Bidens do business, Mr. Galanis?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, very much. So, that was an operating
principle, yes.
Mr. LaTurner. But it looks like someone made a mistake. Mr.
Bobulinski, you created two companies with the Bidens. I want
to show you an infamous email discussing the ownership
structure of one of those companies.
[Chart]
CEFC, you can see on the screen, 20 percent for H, 20
percent for Rob Walker, 20 percent for James Gilliar, 20
percent for Tony Bobulinski, 10 percent for Jim Biden, and 10
percent held by H for the ``Big Guy.'' Mr. Bobulinski, who is
the ``Big Guy''?
Mr. Bobulinski. The ``Big Guy'' is 100 percent Joe Biden.
Mr. LaTurner. Mr. Bobulinski, Hunter Biden did not respond
saying knock it off, we cannot include Joe Biden, did he?
Mr. Bobulinski. No, and that is actually a critical point
because remember----
Mr. LaTurner. Mr. Bobulinski, did you ever get a text
message or a group text message or anything like that saying,
guys, knock it off, Joe Biden is not involved in this deal?
Mr. Bobulinski. No, the whistleblowers actually have a text
exchange where they are talking about everything else but that,
and the reason why they were not talking about it is because
everyone knew Joe Biden was the ``Big Guy.''
Mr. LaTurner. Hunter Biden begged for a public hearing, but
it turns out he is too afraid of accountability to show up and
tell the truth to the American people, but Americans do not
need Hunter's testimony to know they are being gaslit by this
President. It is blatantly obvious to anyone paying attention
that Joe Biden is the ``Big Guy.'' The CEFC deal broke the
``say it, forget it, write it, regret it'' rule of the Biden
family businesses, and now they are trying to cover it up. Joe
Biden said repeatedly that his family never made a dime from
China, but Mr. Bobulinski just confirmed that Hunter, Jim, and
the ``Big Guy'' himself all got a cut from the CEFC China
Energy deal. Let me be clear. The only service the Biden family
ever provided was their ability to leverage the office of the
Vice President of the United States to cash in overseas.
My Democrat colleagues are going to try and tell you that
Joe Biden was not on the final ownership structure agreement,
but isn't it true, if someone was holding Joe Biden's stake in
the company, it would not appear in the document? Isn't that
the whole point of this email, to hold Joe Biden's stake so his
name would not be in the document? Isn't this just plausible
deniability in action, Mr. Bobulinski?
Mr. Bobulinski. It appears that way.
Mr. LaTurner. But plausible deniability only gets you so
far. Now, I want to fast forward from May to the end of July
2017, when the Bidens cut you out of the deal. I want to show
you a message that Hunter sent to his Chinese business
partners. Please put it up on the screen.
[Chart]
Hunter writes, ``I am sitting here with my father, and we
would like to understand why the commitment made has not been
fulfilled.'' So, when Hunter Biden is desperate for money, Jim
Biden's old trick of plausible deniability does not cut it. And
when desperate times call for desperate measures, Hunter Biden
let the cat out of the bag, said the quiet part out loud, and
gave the game away by calling on his father to help him shake
down his Chinese business partners for the money, and it
worked. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, just a point of inquiry, what was
the last image we saw that you put up? Where did that come
from? I just want to authenticate that.
Mr. LaTurner. This is the Ways and Means Committee Exhibit
300.
Chairman Comer. Must be the IRS whistleblower note. Not an
inquiry, though. Anyway, the Chair recognizes Ms. Stansbury for
the last question.
Ms. Stansbury. All right. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman,
and welcome to the GOP's day-long campaign for Donald Trump. I
want to start with Mr. Galanis to help connect some dots that
have not yet been connected in this hearing. Mr. Galanis, you
are serving just under 16 years for, among other things, as has
been said today, defrauding a tribal nation and specifically a
tribal corporation held by the Oglala Sioux, which is why you
are testifying from a prison today. But I would like to ask
you, Mr. Galanis, have you had an attorney representing you
before this Committee that you retained last December, and that
attorney's name is Mr. Mark Paoletta, correct?
Mr. Galanis. That is correct.
Ms. Stansbury. And when you first testified before this
Committee in a taped interview, you were actually stopped by
Mr. Paoletta from answering just a simple question about how
you met him and who exactly was paying your legal fees. Now, I
want to make sure that the American people understand exactly
who Mr. Paoletta is because he is, in fact, a former lawyer to
Donald Trump, who served in the Administration in the Office of
Management and Budget and was at the center of the Ukrainian
pressure campaign for which Donald Trump was impeached. And, in
fact, Mr. Paoletta was Trump's chief OMB lawyer when he
withheld aid to Ukraine to try to extort the Ukrainian
Government into investigating Joe Biden to support Donald
Trump's campaign, and Mr. Paoletta literally wrote the memo to
help withhold those funds.
Now, I want to dig in a little bit on this pressure
campaign, and Mr. Lev Parnas is here to discuss as an
eyewitness who was there. Mr. Parnas, we appreciate you being
here, and I want to move through this quickly, so just ask for
simple ``yes'' or ``no'' answers. You have testified here today
that Donald Trump repeatedly asked you and through Rudy
Giuliani to put pressure on the Ukrainian Government to dig up
dirt on Joe Biden to support Trump's campaign, correct?
Mr. Parnas. One hundred percent, yes.
[Chart]
Ms. Stansbury. And as we can see here in this picture, you
were very much a business associate of Rudy Giuliani during
this time. And as established in your testimony, you traveled
to and met with Ukrainian officials and told them that the
White House would withhold its support and aid to Ukraine if it
did not cooperate with this bribery, essentially.
Mr. Parnas. That is correct.
Ms. Stansbury. And as we all know, Donald Trump's
Administration, and specifically, the Office of Management and
Budget, did withhold that foreign aid in 2019. And here is the
guy who did it, and he is representing the witness who is
literally on Zoom with us for this Committee today. And it is
the reason why Donald Trump was impeached the first time and
the man at the center of that scheme is involved in the House
GOP's inquiry. But I also want to point out that Mr. Paoletta
is also involved in and very much in bed with the Thomases. In
fact, he represented Ms. Ginni Thomas, Clarence Thomas' wife,
in her involvement in the Stop the Steal before the January 6
Committee, and actually also goes on vacation with Mr. Harlan
Crow and the Thomases, so this man has quite an interesting
roster and participation in this hearing.
But the bigger picture here is that Mr. Paoletta's presence
is yet another indication of the way in which this hearing and
this impeachment inquiry is part of Donald Trump's larger
misinformation campaign, just like it was in 2020, where in
addition to pressuring and withholding aid to Ukraine, Rudy
Giuliani, and the Trump organization, as Mr. Parnas has
established, planted the story in the media. And now here we
are 4 years later as they have dredged it back up and are
planting it back in the media using Congress, using this
Committee, and using a baseless impeachment, supported by
Donald Trump's own allies on this Committee, to push that
information out, as Members on this Committee have trafficked
in false evidence that was planted by a Russian operative to
the FBI and is now in jail for that. All of this is in the
service of propping up the criminal enterprise for which Donald
Trump is at the top and has already been twice impeached. Rudy
Giuliani and others have been exposed as they continue to
traffic in Russian disinformation that not only props up Donald
Trump, but it props up Vladimir Putin himself and his goals
back in Russia and in Ukraine.
So, I just want to point out here that once again, as I
said, when we had a false impeachment hearing a few months ago,
that once again we see the long arm----
Chairman Comer. Time has expired. The gentlelady's time has
expired.
Ms. Stansbury. [continuing]. And little hands of Donald
Trump all over this hearing.
Chairman Comer. And I just want to state you made a mistake
and said that Mr. Parnas was a Republican witness. He is very
much your witness, not a Republican witness.
Mr. Parnas. But I was a Republican for Donald Trump.
Ms. Stansbury. Mr. Chairman, I did not know I said that, so
we can----
Chairman Comer. Pursuant to the previous order, the Chair
declares the Committee in recess due to votes. Subject to the
call of the Chair, we will reconvene 10 minutes after the three
votes.
[Recess.]
Chairman Comer. All right. The Committee will reconvene.
The Chair now recognizes Mr. Perry from Pennsylvania for 5
minutes.
Mr. Perry. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Galanis, I am
going to turn my questions to you. I hope I can see you on the
screen here shortly. Are you there, Mr. Galanis? There you are.
OK.
If we can jump right into another Biden Chinese deal made
while Joe Biden was in office, a deal I think you described in
your interview as a quid pro quo where the Chinese sent
millions in exchange for a post-VP job for President Biden. Can
you tell us, what was Burnham?
Mr. Galanis. Yes. So Burnham was an 85-year-old financial
services company based in New York. It owned an asset
management firm and a securities dealer, but relative to the
Chinese, it was an unimportant, small player. I will give you a
scale: $1.5 billion versus $300 billion Chinese company.
Mr. Perry. So, what was Hunter Biden's interest in working
with them knowing that that was the situation?
Mr. Galanis. I think Hunter Biden was already working with
them through the fund that was created. The BHR, Harvest was
the ``H,'' and as described in some of Hunter's emails that I
had provided to the Committee, he described the activity with
BHR, the Harvest activity, as one of his only focuses, and his
other focus would be the activity between Harvest directly and
Burnham directly and a combination. Stated in his own words in
writing was those were to be his only focus and his only
priority in working with the Chinese on a go-forward basis.
Mr. Perry. Did you also say that he said the interest in
working with Burnham was to make billions instead of millions?
Is that right?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, I did say that, and that was on the basis
of looking to become a much larger company where his equity
interest would be worth a lot of money. Billions, not millions.
Mr. Perry. And you said the Harvest Fund was a $300 billion
Chinese financial services company. Was it likely connected or
was it connected closely to the Chinese Communist Party and the
Chinese Government?
Mr. Galanis. That is my understanding.
Mr. Perry. OK. And who was Henry Zhao?
Mr. Galanis. He has been described to me consistently by
Devon and Hunter as the Chairman, but he is essentially the
head of Harvest. I think he has had a couple of different roles
over the years. He was always characterized as Chairman and the
decisionmaker for that entity.
Mr. Perry. Right. So, he is the chairman of the $300
billion Chinese entity connected to the Chinese Government, the
Chinese Communist Party, and he was based out of where? Where
was his base of operations?
Mr. Galanis. In Beijing, China, PRC.
Mr. Perry. And like you said, you heard him referred to
occasionally as ``Chairman Zhao,'' right?
Mr. Galanis. Most of the time it was Chairman Zhao out of
respect for the Chairman, yes.
Mr. Perry. OK. So, now there came to a point where Hunter
wanted to bring Henry Zhao, the Chairman of Harvest, and their
billions of dollars from China into business with Burnham. Is
that right?
Mr. Galanis. That is correct. That is correct, Congressman.
Mr. Perry. And why would he do that?
Mr. Galanis. It was a financial decision. The Chinese
offered money, and he offered political access. It was an
exchange.
Mr. Perry. OK. Fair enough. It is pretty obvious what
Harvest brings, right, $300 billion, but why would Harvest be
interested in Burnham versus other financial institutions? I am
sure there are other ones out there, and, like you said, it was
fairly small. Harvest is $300 billion. Why would they care
about this small Burnham? What was the interest for them?
Mr. Galanis. The self-evident answer is the political
access, and then sort of underscoring that is there are at
least two emails produced that talk about exactly that. Hunter
had characterized as Henry Zhao's interest in the access
vehicle, so that was sort of explicit and in writing.
Mr. Perry. OK. So, Joe Biden was going to sit on the board
of a Chinese company connected to the highest levels of the
Chinese Government, to the Chinese Communist Party. Stepping
back, in your dealings with Hunter, what was the value that
Hunter brought to the table?
Mr. Galanis. It was the access to the inducement, to induce
companies like this Harvest group to participate in Burnham.
So, it was a what we call relationship capital that he brought
to the table, not financial capital, the economic value to the
business.
Mr. Perry. Relationship capital that you described as the
Biden lift. What was the Biden lift?
Mr. Galanis. The Biden lift was simply Hunter's access to
his father and his father's power, prestige, in influencing the
growth of a financial services business which is largely
reliant on its reputation and ability to attract other clients.
Mr. Perry. I am running out of time here, but it sounds
like a quid pro quo to me. Sir, did Harvest, in fact, invest
money in Burnham? You called it a material inducement. Can you
explain what that means, and do you know how much the Chinese
paid?
Mr. Galanis. I was out of the picture toward the end of
2015. I believe that they ended up paying $4 million into
Burnham. I believe, though, as a result of legal entanglements
that I encountered, that the transactions did not happen the
way people expected or that they had written about in terms of
what the Chinese were expected to do.
Mr. Perry. All right. Mr. Galanis, I just want one last
question. I am going to show you a draft email that you
provided to the Committee. Mr. Chairman, I yield.
Chairman Comer. Objection on time. Good job. The Chair now
recognize Ms. Crockett for 1 minute--or 5 minutes.
Ms. Crockett. One minute. All right. First of all, Mr.
Bobulinski, do you know who Elections, LLC is?
Mr. Bobulinski. Do I know who it is?
Ms. Crockett. Yes.
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, it is not a who.
Ms. Crockett. OK. Well, do you know what it is?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes. It is a LLC.
Ms. Crockett. OK. And is it the LLC that your attorney
works for?
Mr. Bobulinski. I believe so, yes.
Ms. Crockett. You believe so. OK. So, at this point in
time, I would ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a
document indicating that the law firm representing Tony
Bobulinski was paid $10,000 as recently as January of this year
by the Save America PAC, which you may recognize as Donald
Trump's PAC.
Chairman Comer. Without objection.
Ms. Crockett. Thank you. Now, so far in this hearing, it
has felt like the worst episode of ``The Apprentice.'' I am
sure you are familiar with that show. It seems like my
colleagues and maybe you and some others are trying to become
the next vice president of the United States of America. You
are auditioning or something like that because, Mr. Bobulinski,
I know that you take exception to the fact that your
credibility has been called into question over and over. But
when someone comes to testify under oath, whether it is before
this Committee, behind closed doors, or in person, then we have
to evaluate someone's credibility. And, sir, I definitely have
always had issues with your credibility, as I know that you are
very well aware of, so let me remind you of what happened
behind closed doors.
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, you should ask Ro Khanna about my
credibility.
Ms. Crockett. I have not asked you a question, OK?
Mr. Bobulinski. You are?
Ms. Crockett. I have not. So, when I ask you a question,
that is when you answer.
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, I thought so.
Ms. Crockett. Otherwise, I am talking.
Mr. Bobulinski. Excuse me?
Ms. Crockett. So, with my time, because it is my time, I
want to be clear that when we were behind closed doors, you
called a number of people liars. You called the Wall Street
Journal liars. You called Cassidy Hutchinson a liar.
Mr. Bobulinski. She is.
Ms. Crockett. You called the FBI a liar. You called Rob
Walker a liar. You called James Gilliar a liar. You called
Hunter Biden a liar. You called Jim Biden a liar. And just
today, you added to your list, you called my colleague,
Congressman, Mr. Goldman, a liar as well. It seems like,
according to you, the only person that is telling the truth is
you and everyone else is lying, but I want to move on to
something else.
Mr. Bobulinski. Is that a question or----
Ms. Crockett. It is not a question.
Mr. Bobulinski. OK.
Ms. Crockett. You will know when I ask you a question, I
promise.
Mr. Bobulinski. Thank you.
Ms. Crockett. So, the other thing that I want to talk about
is the fact that my colleague from the other side of the aisle
talked about the company that we keep, and she wanted to go
through a list of people that she felt like were a bad company
because, right now, the Majority has been relying upon the
testimony of someone who is currently sitting in Federal
prison. And we know that your company is the company of
somebody who has been found liable of fraud, as well as
defamation, as well as sexual assault, and for whatever reason
cannot pay his bills at this point in time. But I am going to
ask Mr. Parnas, so this is a question to him. Are you aware if
Trump had any associates that have been found guilty of
anything?
Mr. Parnas. Yes. Lots of them.
Ms. Crockett. Lots of them.
Mr. Parnas. Me included.
Ms. Crockett. You included. OK. So, when you were called
here to testify, you were not called here to testify for any
other reason than to tell the truth. Is that correct?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, Congresswoman.
Ms. Crockett. Now, we started this whole sham off because
of the 1023, and that was debunked by you, was it not?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, Congresswoman.
Ms. Crockett. Way before we started this impeachment
inquiry. And you mentioned a number of times this guy by the
name of Rudy Giuliani.
Mr. Parnas. Yes.
Ms. Crockett. Now, you know, everybody is so stressed about
the fact that Hunter is not here today, but, you know, Hunter
came and testified behind closed doors for over 6 hours, and
every single one of them, they were not limited to 5 minutes.
They could ask whatever they wanted to, and there is a full
transcript of his testimony, so I do not know what else they
wanted to do besides the fact that they wanted to put on a
show. But let me tell you something, this whole thing is based
upon something that Giuliani came up with.
Mr. Parnas. Yes.
Ms. Crockett. And we tried to subpoena him. That is what I
remember. If anybody else remembers, we tried. We asked. We
said, hey, we should subpoena Giuliani, but, you know, kind of
like when we were trying to get his cellphone, they shut it
down, right? Like, they do not want the facts. But you would
agree with me that considering the fact that you were working
under Rudy Giuliani at the time that you went over to Ukraine,
that he has maybe some valuable information that he could offer
this Committee as to whether or not there is anything that we
should be investigating in the first place.
Mr. Parnas. Absolutely, Congresswoman. I wish that this
Committee would subpoena Rudy Giuliani, put him under oath
alongside me to get to the bottom of the truth of what actually
happened in Ukraine and to the manipulation that Trump and
Giuliani and the team went to do.
Ms. Crockett. I agree with you, but somehow it does not
look like we are going to get there, and I thank you for your
time. With that I will yield.
Chairman Comer. The time has expired. The Chair now
recognizes Mr. Biggs from Arizona.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Galanis, on May 9,
2014, you received an email from Devon Archer confirming, or
you wrote an email confirming, that Ms. Baturina was investing
with Burnham Investments, $15 to $20 million. Is that true?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, Congressman.
Mr. Biggs. And let us talk about the predicate for that.
Ms. Baturina is the richest woman in Russia, and you knew her,
and were you invited to a party that she attended?
Mr. Galanis. Yes. In Brooklyn, yes.
Mr. Biggs. Let us have the invitation up, please.
[Chart]
And here is a copy of the invitation that you received. Is
that right?
Mr. Galanis. No, I cannot see it, Congressman. I did
receive an email invitation, so yes.
Mr. Biggs. Yes, an email invitation, and did you go to that
party?
Mr. Galanis. Yes. I did attend that party, yes.
Mr. Biggs. And was Hunter Biden at that party?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, he was.
Mr. Biggs. And we know that he was because we have a
confirmation of his calendar, which is the next exhibit.
[Chart]
It was noted on there, and he showed up there, and so all
of that is true. It is all verified right there, and Yelena
Baturina and her then-husband, Yury, they were at the party,
right?
Mr. Galanis. Correct.
Mr. Biggs. With Devon Archer as well?
Mr. Galanis. That is correct.
Mr. Biggs. And during that party, Hunter pulled you guys,
the people we just named, pulled them away from where the party
is, and you go to a separate little area where it is quieter
because there were over 100 people at that party. Is that true?
Mr. Galanis. That is true, yes.
Mr. Biggs. And all of a sudden, Hunter says, OK, I am going
to make a phone call. He makes a phone call, does he not?
Mr. Galanis. He does.
Mr. Biggs. To whom?
Mr. Galanis. He called his father.
Mr. Biggs. Then-Vice President Joe Biden, who was Vice
President at the time. What was said on the call, please? Wait
a second. Before you tell us, the reason you know it is because
he put it on speakerphone, right?
Mr. Galanis. He did. After he said hello, then he put it on
speakerphone, so, I was first party to hearing it, and
initially----
Mr. Biggs. Please sum it up.
Mr. Galanis. I am sorry, Congressman. I talked over you.
The video conference----
Mr. Biggs. Yes. Please sum up that phone call for us, Mr.
Galanis.
Mr. Galanis. OK. It was a relatively short call, but he
indicated that our friends had come in from out of town. The
exchange, as I testified, was related to we were going to
proceed, things were going to proceed, and the Vice President
had said, you look after my boy, and----
Mr. Biggs. And it was 5 days after that party that you
received word from Devon that Ms. Baturina was in for $15
million to $20 million with you guys, right?
Mr. Galanis. That is correct.
Mr. Biggs. Let us go to a different issue. Let us go to the
Harvest issue, and I will just refresh everyone's recollection.
``When Devon Archer was there, because at that time he had to
come in, he came up and we had this great conversation. And I
said, `Hey, did Hunter ever indicate to you that the Chinese
anticipated that after his father was out of office, he might
join their company with one of their companies as a paid
advisor?' Mr. Archer says, `Did he intimate that?' I said, `Did
he indicate that to you?' Mr. Archer: `I don't recall, but
potentially. I don't recall, but potentially,' and I said, `You
don't recall, but it is not new to you. The concept is not new
to you. Is that what you are saying?' He said, `No, it is not
new to me.' '' Why wasn't it new to him? Why wasn't it new to
him? It was not new.
Mr. Galanis. It is because that was----
Mr. Biggs. Yes, go ahead.
Mr. Galanis. It was an explicit discussion amongst us that
that was an inducement to the Chinese to invest in the Burnham
business, that being the VP's position post, his position, the
official position.
Mr. Biggs. On a board of advisors, paid board of advisors.
Mr. Galanis. Of the Chinese company, Harvest, yes.
Mr. Biggs. When you say ``us'', who is the ``us'' that was
discussing that?
Mr. Galanis. What I was referring to in just making that
comment was Hunter, Devon, and myself.
Mr. Biggs. Let us go to something else.
Mr. Galanis. There was a broader circulation group about
that, and that was reflected in an email from a staff member at
Thornton Group who circulated the draft email that also
reflected that he had a similar conversation and drafted a
letter based on that understanding.
Mr. Biggs. How long have you been incarcerated, Mr.
Galanis?
Mr. Galanis. I have been incarcerated for 8 years,
Congressman.
Mr. Biggs. And you offered to tell the Southern District of
New York and SEC about Hunter Biden's company, Rosemont Seneca
Bohai, and they rejected your offer, didn't they?
Mr. Galanis. On multiple occasions. That is correct.
Mr. Biggs. Why do you think they rejected that offer?
Mr. Raskin. Chairman, I think he is over.
Chairman Comer. The time has expired, but please answer the
question. Answer the question, Mr. Galanis.
Mr. Galanis. All I can tell you is what counsel said to me.
Mr. Biggs. Which was?
Mr. Galanis. Counsel had indicated to me that he had never
seen a prosecution reject information, particularly paper-based
information, that could have corroborated my verbal statements.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you. My time has expired. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. Very good. The Chair recognizes Ms. Bush
for 5 minutes.
Ms. Bush. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. St. Louis and I are here
today, once again, to focus on the real issues that affect our
communities instead of this partisan circus. Let me start by
saying that influence peddling is absolutely a very serious
issue, full stop. But we all know the truth. Donald Trump is
the quintessential influence-peddler-in-chief. Despite this,
for well over a year now, House Republicans have spent dozens
of hours of precious Committee time hearing testimony from
nearly 20 witnesses on their baseless and increasingly
embarrassing attempts to link President Biden to actions of his
family members and implicate him by association.
Even after all this time and effort, they have not been
able to muster up any credible links between the President and
his son's business dealings. All they have proven is that they
will do whatever it takes, including using their razor-thin
Majority and chairmanships, to waste the people's time. Let us
let today's hearing be the final nail in the coffin of this
sham impeachment investigation. I urge my Republican colleagues
to admit that their quest to impeach the President has
completely collapsed. They have fallen short, and with each
passing day, they are losing votes and credibility, even within
their own conference. It is time for them to move on, but that
is not likely to happen because my Republican colleagues do not
care about responsible governance or making people's lives
better. They do not have an affirmative agenda. They would
rather distract us all with these unfounded accusations against
the President.
So, it is no coincidence that under Republican leadership,
2023 marked the most unproductive year in modern history for
Congress. Aside from a failed impeachment investigation, an
unprecedented 3-week stint without a Speaker, and bringing our
country to the brink of a catastrophic government shutdown
multiple times, Republicans have done absolutely nothing to
demonstrate why they deserve to control any chamber of
Congress, let alone the White House, for which their cult
leader, a twice-impeached, four times indicted former President
is running to gain influence and control again. They are just
grasping at straws, and it would be comical if it was not
leading to real harm and real hurt in our communities.
The people of our country are the ones paying the price for
their failure to actually govern. Instead of wasting all of our
time, hours and hours and hours going down fake rabbit holes
and amplifying baseless conspiracies, we could focus on actual
policy. We could focus on substance. We could focus on saving
and improving the lives of our constituents, not misusing
precious time and resources of this Committee.
What I would rather focus on is the people who do not have
the money and resources to buy influence, the millions of
people in our districts who have been harmed by the ongoing
refusal of the Federal Government to take full responsibility
for the Manhattan Project waste and who are still getting sick
from exposure to toxic radioactive waste their own government
created. It still lingers in communities all across the
country, like in St. Louis, Missouri, where proper cleanup
still remains undone. I am Ranking Member on the Subcommittee
on Economic Growth, Energy Policy, and Regulatory Affairs. I
have repeatedly requested a hearing on Manhattan Project waste
and its countless victims. I am still waiting.
We could focus on ending the crisis of gun violence in this
country. Every day, 327 people are shot in the United States.
Every year, 42,654 people die from gun violence. More children
die from guns than anything else in this country. Why are we
not acting to protect them? How are we not treating this like
the public health emergency that it is? We could focus on
improving the lives of incarcerated individuals and weaning
ourselves off of the carceral state. A currently incarcerated
individual is your star witness today. I applaud your
inclusivity, and surely, if folks convicted of crimes can
testify before Congress, they should be allowed to vote. Why
not enfranchise them?
What about reproductive rights and freedom? We have a
public health crisis in this country where millions of people
of reproductive age cannot get the care that they need. People
in St. Louis are being forced to give birth against their will.
Republicans need and use abortion care just like the rest of
us. Why not meaningfully address this issue? We need to focus
on ending the atrocities in Gaza and Israel. Since January,
malnutrition in children under 5 has doubled, nearly doubled.
Global experts warn famine is imminent for 1.1 million people,
half the population, due to catastrophic food insecurity. Why
are we not acting to reinstate UNRRA, prevent famine and the
spread of disease, and ending the continued slaughter of
Palestinians? We do not have infinite time and resources.
I will stop there. Thank you, and I yield the balance of my
time to Rep. Goldman.
Mr. Goldman. Thank you very much.
Chairman Comer. Ten seconds.
Mr. Goldman. I want to just point to a photo here.
[Chart]
Mr. Bobulinski, you have testified that Cassidy
Hutchinson's account, that you met Mark Meadows, then-Chief of
Staff for Donald Trump, at a Trump rally in Georgia behind
Secret Service cars. You were wearing a mask----
Chairman Comer. The time has expired.
Mr. Goldman. Sir, you went over a minute late with Mr.
Perry. We could have a little extra time. Trump rally, that you
said that she was lying----
Chairman Comer. The time has expired. The Chair now
recognizes Mr. Sessions for 5 minutes.
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, could we have some basic equity
here?
Chairman Comer. If someone else wants to yield, she had 8
seconds to yield him, and he has got up here with a speech. He
has already abused his privilege by making a motion that was
not even a motion. The Chair has ruled. The Chair has ruled.
The Chair has ruled.
Mr. Goldman. What are you afraid of, Mr. Chairman? What are
you afraid of? Why don't you let me ask the question?
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes--oh, for what purpose
do you seek recognition, Mr. Biggs?
Mr. Biggs. Unanimous consent to introduce the documents
into the record.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Here they are. One is
the invitation that was mentioned. Another is Hunter Biden's
calendar. Another is the email mentioned confirming that Yelena
Baturina was going to invest $10 million to $20 million with
him. Another one is page 180 of the Galanis interview, page 56
of the transcribed interview of Hunter Biden, and also pages 41
and 42 of the Galanis interview.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered into the
record.
Mr. Goldman. Chairman, I have a----
Chairman Comer. For what purpose do you seek recognition,
Mr. Goldman?
Mr. Goldman. I have a UC motion, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Proceed.
Mr. Goldman. I would like to enter into the record the
portion of the Devon Archer transcript where he says that
Yelena Baturina never had any business dealings with Hunter
Biden and that money went into their joint account was done by
mistake.
Chairman Comer. By mistake. OK. Without objection, so
ordered.
Mr. Raskin. And, Mr. Chairman, I have one UC request as
well.
Chairman Comer. Proceed.
Mr. Raskin. This is from Salon magazine: ``'It is
Embarrassing': Republicans Worry They Have `Zero
Accomplishments' to Run on in Elections.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from
Texas, Mr. Sessions, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Sessions. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I would
first like to enter into the record 302s that were done with
Mr. Bobulinski, what is known as Exhibit 400A.
Chairman Comer. Without objection.
Mr. Sessions. Thank you very much. Mr. Bobulinski, thank
you for being here, Mr. Parnas, thank you for being here, and
those of you who are appearing extraneously on our screen. Mr.
Bobulinski, tell me about, very quickly, about the
professionalism of the organization that you work for in terms
of paychecks, getting paychecks, providing the IRS with
documentation of people who were paid out of the organization.
Mr. Bobulinski. I am not sure I am following your question.
Mr. Sessions. Were you ever paid?
Mr. Bobulinski. I was not.
Mr. Sessions. So, you were never paid by this organization?
Mr. Bobulinski. I was not.
Mr. Sessions. Did you ever receive any enumeration?
Mr. Bobulinski. When we were in the process of trying to
shut down SinoHawk Holdings, LLC and Oneida Holdings, LLC, I
was compensated. It was not a compensation. It was a
reimbursement of $50,000 of money that had come out of pocket,
traveling around, paying for hotels and stuff like that, so.
Mr. Sessions. So, in other words, people did not get paid,
or you did not get paid, that you were aware of. Were you aware
that other people were being paid?
Mr. Bobulinski. The Biden family was paid. Hunter and Jim
Biden were clearly paid millions of dollars.
Mr. Sessions. And how would you think that that information
would be transmitted about them receiving that payment and
going to the IRS?
Mr. Bobulinski. I am not sure of those specifics. I am just
aware that they received those millions of dollars, obviously,
based on the brave testimony of Shapley and Ziegler that came
public with a bunch of information. And then Senator Johnson
and Senator Grassley's report, I never saw. The only bank
account I ever saw is the one I set up at J.P. Morgan for
SinoHawk Holdings and Oneida Holdings, LLC. J.P. Morgan was
well aware that the Biden family were owners in that business.
They authorized it, approved it----
Mr. Sessions. What Social Security number was utilized to
set up that account?
Mr. Bobulinski. For SinoHawk and Oneida?
Mr. Sessions. Yes.
Mr. Bobulinski. We had to represent the owners of the
underlying entities, so they were aware that Hudson West III
owned 50 percent of SinoHawk Holdings, and they provided their
information. On the Oneida side, we represented that each of us
owned 20 percent, and I would have to go back and look. I, as
the CEO, probably provided my Social Security number. I am not
sure if we provided Social Security numbers for all five
members, or, excuse me, tax IDs for their LLCs.
Mr. Sessions. Or tax IDs, and yet you never received money
except reimbursement for out-of-pocket expenses that were
related to the business?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct. I imagine that $50,000 I was paid
was actually from the legal side of SinoHawk Holdings and the
Chinese while the Bidens had defrauded me and were receiving
millions of dollars into their own pockets.
Mr. Sessions. Were you aware that they were receiving
millions of dollars at the time?
Mr. Bobulinski. I was not.
Mr. Sessions. Did you spend time with the Department of
Justice on this matter?
Mr. Bobulinski. I did. I did. I had a voluntary interview
with the FBI on October 23, I believe, 2020.
Mr. Sessions. They approached you or you approached them?
Mr. Bobulinski. My lawyers coordinated me. I, which is
obviously public knowledge, went to the second debate. I flew
to D.C. with the intent of sitting in front of Senator Johnson,
Senator Grassley, and their committee, and then my lawyers
sought counsel, had discussions, and decided it was a better
focus of my time to walk voluntarily into the FBI.
Mr. Sessions. So, where did you do that?
Mr. Bobulinski. In Washington, DC.
Mr. Sessions. Main Justice, main FBI or the field office?
Mr. Bobulinski. I believe it was the leading field office.
They did not want to do it in Main Justice for their reasons,
they decided. I would have gone wherever they asked me to go.
Mr. Sessions. Did they tell you at the time that you were
providing information that if you provided information that was
not true and correct, that you could be held liable for that
under criminal statute?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes, of course. I appreciate you asking
that question. I was operated as if I misrepresented,
misstated, lied, that I was committing criminal offenses, which
I take very seriously based on the fact that I was willing to
die for this country. And to just correct Ms. Crockett's
statement earlier, I did not accuse the FBI of lying. I stated
in my transcribed interview that the FBI made mistakes in their
302. My lawyers never saw that document after my interview,
until it was made public to the world.
Mr. Sessions. And then you attempted to correct that 302?
Mr. Bobulinski. I did.
Mr. Sessions. Is that the same 302 known as Exhibit 400A
that I have entered in the record today?
Mr. Bobulinski. It is.
Mr. Sessions. Do you have any other dispute with that and
have you looked at it, and do you have any other dispute?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, there are numerous mistakes in it.
Mr. Sessions. OK. Thank you very much. Do you have any
reason to believe that all of these SAR reports that have come
out of banks were all fraud?
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired, but he
asked a question about the SARs report.
Mr. Bobulinski. I mean, just the number of SARs reports
should give every American pause. The average American in this
country will never receive a single SAR in their entire life,
so for a family or an individual to have over, what I have
publicly seen, 150 of them, is just extraordinary.
Mr. Sessions. OK. Thank you. I want to thank all the
witnesses that are here today, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very
much.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair
now recognizes Mr. Frost, or who? I thought you said Frost.
Oh, Mr. Casar. OK. Casar.
Mr. Casar. Thank you, Chairman, and if I could have my full
5 minutes, I would appreciate that.
Chairman Comer. Reset the clock for 5 minutes for Mr.
Casar.
Mr. Casar. Thank you, Chairman. While we clearly disagree
on the merits of this meritless investigation, I hope,
Chairman, that we can at least come to an agreement on some
basics. I believe that you and I can agree that Presidents and
White House officials should not be unduly influenced by
foreign powers, so, Chairman, I would be happy to yield to you
briefly for a ``yes'' or ``no.'' Can we all agree that White
House officials should not be bribed or unduly influenced by
foreign actors?
Chairman Comer. It is your time. You can ask. We have
witnesses here.
Mr. Casar. I would assume that you would agree.
Chairman Comer. We have witnesses. If you want to ask the
witnesses a question or you want to waste time with me.
Mr. Casar. I am not wasting time with you. I think that we
have been disagreeing all day. I hope we can come to an
agreement that White House officials should not be bribed or
unduly influenced by foreign powers. I think you and I agree on
this point. I see you nodding your head. I assume that that is
a yes.
I am glad that we can work as an Oversight Committee on an
investigation, do the work we need to do, and make sure that no
one in the White House has betrayed the public trust. We have
spent countless hours talking about Hunter Biden, investigating
every single person that seems like he has ever shaken hands
with. We have not found a shred of evidence that connects it to
the President of United States or anyone with any say over U.S.
policy, but someone who has worked in the White House did
accept money from a foreign power.
Donald Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, received a
staggering $2 billion from Saudi Arabia for his brand new
private equity firm. And while Hunter Biden never had any say
over U.S. policy, Mr. Kushner got this $2 billion 6 months
after working in the White House as a senior advisor on Middle
East policy. Mr. Kushner had no experience in private equity.
In fact, he was so inexperienced that Saudi officials tried to
block the transfer of the money until the Crown Prince
overruled them. While working at the White House, Mr. Kushner
pushed through a $110 billion weapons sale for----
Mr. Fallon. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. Casar [continuing]. Saudi Arabia. I am finishing my
point and then I am happy to talk about it. He then defended
the deal in the wake of the Saudi Government's murder of
journalist Jamal Khashoggi. And while this may all just be a
coincidence, there are many questions, like was any of this
money passed along to Trump, was the Saudi money a thank you
for a job well done in the White House, was Jared given this
money in exchange for anything else, or did someone with no
experience just have a lucky payday? These are questions we
should have answers to.
Mr. Raskin. Will the gentleman yield for a second?
Mr. Casar. These are the questions that the Oversight
Committee should look into.
Mr. Raskin. Maybe we can just add another question. What
was the role that Jared Kushner played in covering up the
assassination and dismemberment of Jamal Khashoggi ordered by
the Royal Crown Prince?
Mr. Casar. We should have somebody ask that question,
Ranking Member.
Mr. Fallon. Would the gentleman yield?
Mr. Casar. And so I want to know, if Hunter Biden had
accepted $2 billion from the Saudi Government, I am sure we
would be looking into that today. And, Mr. Chairman, I believe
we can agree that there should not be undue influence in the
White House, and I believe we should be able to agree that we
should look into these questions about Mr. Kushner. And, in
fact, Mr. Chairman, you were on CNN and said, ``I have been
very vocal that I think what Kushner did cross the line of
ethics.''
And then, in our deposition of Hunter Biden, the other day,
when we were discussing Mr. Kushner, you said, Mr. Chairman,
and I quote from the deposition, ``When we deal with influence
peddling, we will ask about Jared Kushner.'' Well, today's
hearing is titled, ``Influence Peddling,'' so we are here. So,
Mr. Comer, I would love to hear from you. Can we fulfill our
responsibility as an Oversight Committee and determine if Saudi
Arabia bribed or unduly influenced Jared Kushner or other White
House officials? Is that something we would be willing to look
into?
Chairman Comer. We have already had a conversation with Ms.
Porter. I am going to answer one time, Ms. Porter and I have
pledge to work on influence peddling legislation. We will take
up all the people who have been accused of influence peddling.
We will try to determine whether Jared Kushner has a real
business. We have not been able to find a real business that
the Bidens have had yet, now. It is still your time, Mr. Casar.
Mr. Casar. So, could we expect to subpoena Mr. Kushner's
correspondence with the Saudi Government or his firm's
financial records or financial transactions between Mr. Kushner
and his father-in-law? Is that something that we would consider
doing as part of that hearing you just discussed?
Chairman Comer. What was the question?
Mr. Casar. If we are serious about looking into foreign
money--I saw recently a poster board here about $100,000 to a
car dealership--are we going to be serious about the $2 billion
from the Saudi Government to Mr. Kushner? With that, my
question is, would we be at least subpoenaing Jared's
correspondence with the Saudi Government and its firm's
financial records? Can we commit to doing that?
Chairman Comer. I think it is important to see if they were
real legitimate businesses.
Mr. Casar. And if you----
Chairman Comer. Let me ask you a question. What business
was Hunter Biden in?
Mr. Casar. We heard explicitly from Mr. Biden about his
extensive business record and his experience on boards. We
heard about that.
Chairman Comer. The time has expired.
Mr. Casar. Mr. Kushner, on the other hand----
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Fallon for 5
minutes.
Mr. Fallon. Mr. Chairman, before I start my questions, I
would like to enter into the record, submit to the record an
article from the Kyiv Post.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Fallon. And then a second article from the Kyiv Post,
entitled, ``Prosecutor General Shokin Resigns,'' and it is
updated. If I could enter this in----
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Fallon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I sat in on the entire
7-plus hour deposition that Hunter Biden gave to this
Committee. And one of the things that stood out to me was his
assertions, with a rather braggadocious flair, of his business
experience and his acumen, his impeccable qualifications. He
claimed, with quite some vigor, I might add, that he was a
brilliant, accomplished, and highly sought-after business
commodity, he is very successful, and he had an unparalleled
resume that he recited to us chapter and verse to prove it.
That was at least the face his lawyers, this Administration,
and the House Democrats wanted him to wear.
Of course, there is another possibility, one that, this
pesky little thing we call reality, that he was a spoiled,
entitled East Coast patrician, with a senator and then VP
daddy, who squandered his many life advantages and spiraled
into a decadent behavioral pattern of narcissistic excess and
criminal addiction. And to feed his very large, carnal
appetites, he acted as his family's bag man in an influence-
peddling and access-selling scheme that netted the Biden tribe
over $24 million in illicit foreign cash. Lots of money, little
effort in a get-rich-quick scheme. If he was such a skilled and
gifted businessman as he claimed, his services would be sought
after, in fact even fought over.
Mr. Bobulinski, to your knowledge, how many Fortune 500
companies retain Hunter Biden on their board of directors?
Mr. Bobulinski. Now or in his----
Mr. Fallon. Ever.
Mr. Bobulinski. I cannot confirm any.
Mr. Fallon. Yes, because there are not any. Zero. How many
American energy companies retain Hunter Biden on their boards
of directors?
Mr. Bobulinski. Zero.
Mr. Fallon. Zero. Nada. Correct. There was one energy
company that retained him on their board of directors. Do you
know what that name of that company was?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes, Burisma.
Mr. Fallon. Burisma, correct. Where is Burisma located?
Mr. Bobulinski. Ukraine.
Mr. Fallon. Really? That is interesting, and he was hired
actually for no small sum, $1 million a year. Hunter Biden said
in his deposition he could bring, and Mr. Chairman, I apologize
for laughing, but he said his corporate governance to the
table. He brought something far more valuable than his
corporate governance and his fictitious business acumen. He
brought his daddy with him. You see, Joe Biden just happened to
have been given the country of Ukraine in his portfolio of
responsibility to oversee by the Obama Administration.
So let us go over some facts, Mr. Chairman. Fact: Burisma
and CEO, Mykola Zlochevsky, had been investigated for
corruption. Fact: in September 2015, then U.S. Ambassador to
Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt, specifically mentioned Burisma as a
corrupt entity. Fact: Burisma was paying the son of the Vice
President of this United States $1 million a year to serve on
their board. Fact: December 2015, Joe Biden visits Ukraine,
demands Viktor Shokin, the prosecutor general of Ukraine, who
is investigating Burisma, his son's boss, be fired.
Fact: February 2, 2016, Kyiv Post reports Viktor Shokin won
a court order to seize assets of Burisma CEO, Mykola
Zlochevsky. Two weeks later, fact, Shokin resigns. President
Poroshenko called on him to resign. He resigned. He essentially
was fired at the behest of Joe Biden. Fact: 2016 February, 2
weeks later, there is a little email sent from Vadym Pozharsky,
COO of Burisma. He is an executive of Burisma, and to Hunter
Biden asked him, ``Hey Hunter, will you help us out? We want to
get the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine to say that we are a good
company.''
Now, the Ambassador just said they were corrupt few months
prior to that, and then, lo and behold, with the seal of the
United States Embassy, they say that we have no negative
information or feelings about Burisma. So, what changed in
those 6 months? It was magic. The power of the Vice President's
visit, when he demands that the prosecutor who is investigating
his son's boss, be fired. And he is going to withhold $1
billion worth of aid--actually, it is, I think loan
guarantees--if Shokin is not fired, and then Shokin is fired.
The embassy says that Burisma is a great company. Our
Democratic colleagues would have us believe, Mr. Chairman, that
that was all magic, that there is no coincidence here, and with
that, I yield the balance of my time to Mr. Jordan.
Mr. Jordan. I appreciate the gentleman yielding. I was just
going to point out that Jared Kushner was one of the key
officials involved in the Abraham Accords. How about the
President of the United States, what he said in his State of
the Union regarding Israel? And how about what the Democrat
leader of the Senate said last week, and that Israel should
change its prime minister, for goodness sake? That, to me, is a
concern. Jared Kushner was doing good work with the Abraham
Accords. Of course the Democrats do not want to admit that. I
appreciate the gentleman for yielding.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes----
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, I have a motion. I would move
pursuant to Clause 2(k)(6) of Rule XI that the Committee issued
a subpoena to Jared Kushner to compel testimony related to the
$2 billion collected from Saudi Arabia after his service within
the White House.
Ms. Crockett. Second.
Chairman Comer. There is a motion and second. For what
purpose does the gentleman from Ohio seek recognition?
Mr. Jordan. I move to table the motion.
Chairman Comer. The motion to table is not debatable. As
many as are in favor of tabling signify by saying aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
Chairman Comer. All those opposed, signify by saying no.
[Chorus of noes.]
Chairman Comer. In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have
it. And the motion to table is agreed to.
The Committee will now resume consideration of this
hearing.
Now, the Chair recognizes, is it Ms. Lee? Who is next?
Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think it is fair to say
at this point that Republicans on this Committee are relying on
Mr. Bobulinski as their star witness, the only fact witness
they have brought in in-person before this Committee. So, I
think we all expect that Mr. Bobulinski would have extensive
inside knowledge about the involvement they allege that
President Biden had in Hunter's business ventures.
As Mr. Parnas can vouch for, previous impeachment inquiries
relied on whistleblowers and witnesses with intimate details of
what went on, you know, firsthand accounts of high crimes and
misdemeanors. You could point to exactly what the allegations
were and understand what was going on. There were laid-out
chains of events pointing to a named crime, lying under oath,
obstruction of justice, abuse of power, incitement of
insurrection, yet we are left floundering here with zero
direction and zero real evidence while we watch this kangaroo
court struggle to continue on. And today, we have Mr.
Bobulinski, whose biggest contribution is that he had
``multiple meetings with Joe Biden,'' but let us be clear. He
spoke with Joe Biden a grand total of two times in the span of
less than 24 hours in 2017, and each was short: one in public
in the bar of a hotel and then for a few minutes backstage of
the Milken Conference after Biden spoke about the efforts to
fight cancer, which took the life of his son, Beau.
I think we also need to clarify that while Mr. Bobulinski
is all of a sudden today claiming that they talked business,
but at no point did he mention this during his deposition under
oath with this Committee. At two different points when asked
about what was said in this conversation, Mr. Bobulinski's
account made clear that he had zero substantive business
discussions with Mr. Joe Biden. Mr. Bobulinski described those
conversations twice during his transcribed interview, and both
times he provided the same accounts. I will read from the
transcript of your interview, Mr. Bobulinski. You stated that
you and Joe Biden discussed your ``family background in
detail,'' as well as the Biden family's background and Joe
Biden's ``appreciation for the military.'' Pages 48 through 52
and 268 to 271 of the transcript had these accounts.
Based on your own account, you had zero discussion of CEFC,
the Chinese energy company. You had zero discussion on shares
of equity or capitalization of this failed business venture.
Based on your own account, you simply exchanged pleasantries
about your families and shared values, the kind of small talk
any person would make if they had the opportunity to meet the
former Vice President of the United States, and moved on. Yet
today, when my Republican colleagues are so desperate for
actual evidence, magically that story changes, and that is
really at the heart of everything we are discussing today.
Mr. Bobulinski has also been pushing his texts as records
as proof, yet the Wall Street Journal found that none of it
showed any role for Joe Biden and SinoHawk Holdings. And even
Fox News reported that there was zero evidence of business
dealings involving Joe Biden. Mr. Bobulinski would have us
believe that everyone is a liar except him and except for when
he is under oath, that everyone misremembers, except for him
and except for when he is under oath. The FBI, the Wall Street
Journal, his business associations, all liars.
Republicans in this Committee and the culture warriors of
Fox News keep saying look at the documents, look at the
documents, so let us look. This purported investigation has
received over 100,000 pages of documents, and not a single one
shows any evidence of any wrongdoing, much less an impeachable
offense. And taking a step back, even if Joe Biden had
discussed his son's business ventures with Tony Bobulinski in
2017, and this is rhetorical, so what? What would be the high
crime or misdemeanor? What would be the impeachable offense? We
are talking about what a private citizen, Hunter Biden, was
doing with his, at the time, private citizen dad.
This impeachment inquiry is not about facts or evidence. It
is not even about impeachable offenses. It is about keeping the
American people distracted while we do nothing on reducing gun
violence, nothing on lowering healthcare costs, nothing on
reforming our criminal legal system. This has been the least
productive Congress in decades. We are just now in March
finally funding the government for this year. That is shameful.
This unserious hearing is a waste of our time and our
resources. I yield with that, and I yield the remainder of my
time to Representative Crockett.
Ms. Crockett. Yes, I just want to make sure that I point
out, and this is not a question just in case you wanted to
know, that on page 174 of your transcribed interview, line 9,
it says, ``This is an absolute lie,'' in reference to talking
about the FBI, what you stated, what was stated right before
that was, first of all----
Mr. Bobulinski. I did not call the FBI agents liars. I said
they misstated or made mistakes.
Ms. Crockett. I said that I am speaking, and I did not ask
you a question. First of all, it does not say Tony Bobulinski
told the FBI ``this is a summary of two agents that took notes
through my interview and their summary apparently that they
presented says Bobulinski first met in-person with members of
the Biden family at a 2017 meeting in Miami, Florida. This is
an absolute lie.'' That is what it says. The final thing that I
am going to say is about this. What we have from Ken Buck, a
Republican: ``I don't think that the impeachment of Biden is
appropriate, and so House Speaker Mike Johnson's ability to
talk me into staying here is going to be about as successful as
his ability about talking me into an unconstitutional
impeachment.''
Chairman Comer. I let her have 30 seconds over. The Chair
now recognizes Mr. Burchett from Tennessee.
Mr. Burchett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On July 30, 2017,
Hunter Biden wrote to his Chinese business associate, Raymond
Zhao, ``I am sitting here with my father, and we would like to
understand why the commitment made has not been fulfilled.''
Mr. Bobulinski, who did Raymond Zhao work for when this message
was sent?
Mr. Bobulinski. Raymond Zhao worked for Director Zang at
CEFC.
Mr. Burchett. Is CEFC connected to the Chinese Communist
Party?
Mr. Bobulinski. It is.
Mr. Burchett. Is CEFC a corrupt organization?
Mr. Bobulinski. It was.
Mr. Burchett. From your perspective, what had occurred with
CEFC from the end of May to this July 30 text message?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, it is tough to go through all these
details in 20-second clips, but at the end of July, it is
important to note, Jim Biden was broke, Hunter Biden was broke,
published by the brave whistleblowers Shapley and Ziegler, and
Hunter made the conscious decision to basically defraud the
partners of SinoHawk Holdings and Oneida because he needed
money immediately. They have published pages of text messages
where he is trying to get money into his bank account. And so
that night, for whatever reason, on the 30th when he asked why
hasn't the commitment been fulfilled, the commitment he is
talking about is actually the $10 million funding into SinoHawk
Holdings, LLC, really key point. But the next day he decides
that he is going to defraud SinoHawk Holdings and Oneida,
create a new entity called Hudson West III--well, actually
change--Hudson West III--it had already previously been created
by the Chinese--and make himself a 50-percent owner in that
entity. So, when the Chinese did send money, he would have the
instant access to it, really important, backed up with tens of
pages of communications. He wanted to get access to the money
the second it came in, and in SinoHawk Holdings and Oneida
Holdings, he did not have that power.
I just want to address one thing real quick. Hunter Biden
represents he is a governance expert. That is why Burisma put
him on the board. Well, he obviously cannot do basic math. The
board of Oneida Holdings had seven votes. Each one of them--
Hunter, Jim Biden, James Gilliar, and Rob Walker--had a single
vote. I had three votes. I have a master's degree in electrical
and nuclear engineering. I think I can do math. I had three.
They had four. They controlled Oneida Holdings. So, Hunter
Biden's representations that I was trying to take the business
from them or I did not know, is all a shame and a
misrepresentation. He wanted money in his account instantly,
and that is why he shut down the Chinese, and they were willing
to send them that $5 million because they viewed it as a bribe
to the Biden family. They say it in their own communications.
Mr. Burchett. Are you aware or not that they paid taxes on
any of that?
Mr. Bobulinski. I can only go from public testimony. I was
not involved in their taxes.
Mr. Burchett. OK. On July 31, the next day, Hunter says he
hopes Kevin should know that the plan to speak is highly
confidential, and Raymond Zhao responded, ``CEFC is willing to
cooperate with the family, and the priority is to solve the
problems mentioned last night.'' What family was Raymond Zhao
talking about? Was it the Bidens?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, the family was the Biden family, and,
more importantly, in that text is what is he talking about is
the confidential matter. The confidential matter he is talking
about were four sealed indictments in the SDNY where they were
about to indict executives of CEFC that we now know. I did not
know that in July 2017, but the SDNY knew. Charles McGonigal,
who is now apparently going to serve 78 months in prison, ran
counterintelligence for the FBI in New York City where Chairman
Ye was dropping $50 million of cash for penthouses in
Manhattan. So, who you should be asking all these questions are
the Department of Justice, the SDNY, the FBI because they have
troves of evidence that back up what was going on in July 2017
and in August 2017.
So, I apologize, Congressman, to be so passionate and to
take your time, but this is what I need you guys or the focus
has to be of your Oversight Committee. This involved the
Chinese Communist Party. They were doing a transaction with
Rosneft, which was a U.S.-sanctioned company at the time, and
the Biden family was right front and center in the middle of
it.
Mr. Burchett. Thank you. Let us switch gears for a second.
I wish Hunter Biden were here because I would like to ask him
about his taxes. I want to know if he paid his fair share, just
like his dad has asked Americans to do. I want to know if he is
current on his taxes, and if he is not, I would like to ask him
when he plans to pay up. Mr. Bobulinski, you are a businessman.
Did you pay your taxes?
Mr. Bobulinski. I did. I am happy to----
Mr. Burchett. Mr. Bobulinski, he actually pays his taxes,
unlike the President's son, and yet Democrats on this Committee
act like Hunter is the believable one out of you two. Joe Biden
has no right to lecture the American people about their taxes
until he gets his own house in order. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Very good. The Chair now recognizes Mr.
Moskowitz for 5 minutes.
Mr. Moskowitz. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Oh, how are you
doing? Good? OK. Mr. Bobulinski? Over here. How are you doing?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes.
Mr. Moskowitz. Good. So, I just have a question. We have
been at this for 15 months now in Oversight. I know this is
your first time here, but do you think Chairman Comer has
proven that Joe Biden has committed a high crime and
misdemeanor?
Mr. Bobulinski. I believe with all the evidence he has
gathered, yes, he has proven that Joe Biden has committed high
crimes and misdemeanors.
Mr. Moskowitz. OK. And, so, I assume you believe Joe Biden
should be impeached?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, that is up to you guys.
Mr. Moskowitz. But do you believe he should be impeached?
It is ``yes'' or ``no.''
Mr. Bobulinski. Do I personally believe or----
Mr. Moskowitz. Yes. Yes. Yes, you.
Mr. Bobulinski [continuing]. Under constitutional law?
Mr. Moskowitz. No, no, no. You personally, do you believe
he should be impeached?
Mr. Bobulinski. I do.
Mr. Moskowitz. OK. And you believe that because you believe
Chairman Comer has proven that he committed a high crime and
misdemeanor?
Mr. Bobulinski. No, because I know that he committed high
crimes and misdemeanors.
Mr. Moskowitz. OK.
Mr. Bobulinski. I was involved and saw them happen.
Mr. Moskowitz. Right. But obviously, with all the evidence,
you must believe that, all of these hearings for 15 months,
that the Chairman has proven that, right?
Mr. Bobulinski. Can you re-ask the question?
Mr. Moskowitz. Sure. I will sum it up. I assume you believe
he should be impeached, but my point is that the Chairman has
not yet moved for that. And so, look, Chairman, we got, like,
3-and-a-half minutes here. I mean, let us just do the
impeachment. I mean, why continue to waste millions of dollars
of the taxpayers' money? If we are going to impeach because you
believe you have shown he has committed a high crime and
misdemeanor, what are you waiting on? Let us just do it. I
mean, by the way, we got Chairman Jordan here also, the double
Chairman. Why aren't you guys calling for the vote in your
committee? When is it going to happen? When can we tell the
American people you are going to stop wasting their money and
just call for the vote on impeachment?
Mr. Jordan. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. Moskowitz. Sure.
Mr. Jordan. We do not do snap impeachments like you guys.
We actually do the facts. We do oversight according to the
Constitution.
Mr. Moskowitz. You are never going to call for it. You are
never going to call for it. I mean----
Mr. Jordan. Now you can predict the future? How do you
know?
Mr. Moskowitz. You guys only have 6 more months probably in
power, right, until the election? So, are you going to do it in
2 months? Are you going to do in 3 months? Like, tell the
American people.
Mr. Jordan. Does the Constitution put a time limit on
oversight? I did not read that in Constitution.
Mr. Moskowitz. So, if you believe you cannot call for the
impeachment now, then what you are admitting is you have not
yet proven that he has committed a high crime and misdemeanor.
You have not proven it yet. Otherwise, you would call for it, I
assume.
Mr. Jordan. We are doing our work. We are doing our
investigation.
Mr. Moskowitz. OK. So, they have not proven it, right? They
have not proven he committed a high crime and misdemeanor.
Otherwise, we would call for impeachment. Look, you know, the
Chairman knows me well. I am just here to help him, right? And
so, I just think we should do it today. Let us just call for
it. I will make the motion, Mr. Chairman. I want to help you
out. You can second it, right? Like, make the motion to impeach
President Biden. Go ahead. It is your turn. You second it.
No, nothing? OK. We got nothing. So, I want to, with my
last couple of minutes, show the American people that they are
never going to impeach Joe Biden. It is never going to happen
because they do not have the evidence. OK. This is a show. It
is all fake. They just want to do these hearings. It is not
leading to impeachment. They are lying to their base on Newsmax
and Fox, leading these people to believe that they are going to
eventually impeach the President. It is not going to happen at
all, ever, period. They do not even have the votes. Even if
they had it in Committee, they do not have the votes on the
floor. They know that. They got Members resigning rather than
taking a vote on the fake, faux impeachment. Just ask Ken Buck
who said, ``The Speaker is not going to get me to take an
unconstitutional impeachment vote.'' I mean, boy, I mean.
So, look, I mean, if these hearings were a success, right,
if what we have been doing for the last 15 months had convinced
the American people that Joe Biden committed a high crime and
misdemeanor, you can be damn sure they would have called the
vote by now, right, but they want it to go on. They will either
want it to go on because they do not have the evidence----
Mr. Bobulinski. Are you asking me a question?
Mr. Moskowitz. No, no. I am just looking at you.
Mr. Bobulinski. OK.
Mr. Moskowitz. But if you want to talk to me, we can talk.
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, no, I think you have not read recent
data that shows the American people are well aware of the
Bidens' corruption.
Mr. Moskowitz. Perfect. So, then ask the Chairman why he
has not called for impeachment, Tony. He is right here. Ask
Comer. Hey, Comer, how come you have not called for
impeachment? I will do it. Watch. Hi, I am Tony. Hey, Chairman,
how come you have not call for impeachment? When are we going
to have the hearing? When is the vote going to happen? I mean,
you believe it, he believes it, he says it every day on TV. I
just do not know when we are going to have the vote. I mean,
let us just go.
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, you are asking me to hold the vote?
Mr. Moskowitz. No, I just like looking at you. We can save
the taxpayers millions of dollars. So I mean, look, I used all
of my time to show that this vote is never going to happen
because they have no evidence on Joe Biden. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair
now recognizes Mr. Burlison from Missouri for 5 minutes.
[Audio malfunction in the hearing room.]
Chairman Comer. Switch mics. Restart the clock. We will get
you a mic. Do you want to go to that one?
Mr. Burlison. Are we good?
Chairman Comer. Now we are.
Mr. Burlison. All right. I want to start with Mr. Galanis.
Mr. Galanis, you have heard the expression, ``Say it, forget
it. Write it, regret it.'' Have you heard that expression? Mr.
Galanis?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, I am here. Congressman?
Mr. Burlison. Have you heard the expression, ``Say it,
forget it. Write it, regret it?''
Mr. Galanis. Yes, I have. It was a practice that we used in
our business.
Mr. Burlison. In whose business?
Mr. Galanis. Business with Hunter Biden and Devon Archer.
Mr. Burlison. OK. So it is their expression.
Mr. Galanis. Yes. Correct.
Mr. Burlison. Let me ask you a question. Who is Hares
Youssef.
Mr. Galanis. Hares Youssef is the Ukrainian investor
originally from Syria, a longtime colleague of Dmytro Firtash.
Mr. Burlison. So, he is a colleague of Dmytro Firtash. He
was mentioned earlier this is hearing. Who is Dmytro Firtash?
Mr. Galanis. He is a Ukrainian oligarch very close to the
Kremlin that made his fortune primarily at trading gas from a
Russian state oil and gas company.
Mr. Burlison. So, connected to Vladimir Putin, correct?
Mr. Galanis. Very much so, yes.
Mr. Burlison. In fact, during Hunter Biden's deposition
with the Committee, he justified his role. I think you will
find this comical. He justified his role on the Ukrainian
Burisma board by saying, in essence, that it was his patriotic
duty that he was serving, you know, freedom, because ``there
were two gas companies inside Ukraine at the time. One of them
was a state-owned, which was highly corrupt and connected to
people like Firtash, which was directly going into Vladimir
Putin's pocket. The only independent company was Burisma.''
Now, my question to you, based on this, you know, he is
disparaging Mr. Firtash, and yet are you aware that that Hunter
Biden did business with Mr. Firtash?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, I am.
Mr. Burlison. So, let me ask you, what kind of financial
transactions occurred between them?
Mr. Galanis. Hares Youssef described to me, and it was also
described to me by others, including Devon and Hunter, was a $5
million payment that was made by Dmytro Firtash was handled by
Hares Youssef through Hunter Biden's law firm that was deemed a
success fee in order to quash an outstanding indictment in the
United States.
Mr. Burlison. So, a Putin-connected Russian oligarch wired
over $5 million to Hunter Biden's law firm for what activity?
What was Hunter supposed to do for that $5.5 million?
Mr. Galanis. He was supposed to perform in quashing the
indictment that resulted in an arrest warrant for Dmytro
Firtash, who continues to be under house arrest and charged in
the United States.
Mr. Burlison. Charged in the United States. Yes, being
charged in United States, in Indiana, so he is supposed to
quash that, use his political influence to do so. So, my
question is, of that money, the $5 million, $3 million made its
way to a company that you set up with Devon Archer, called
Inbloom. Is that correct?
Mr. Galanis. That is correct. Yes.
Mr. Burlison. And finally, from that $3 million, there was
a transfer that was made, and I have got a copy of that, the
bank record to prove that, of $275,000. Do you recall that
transfer?
Mr. Galanis. I do, yes.
Mr. Burlison. And it went to which account?
Mr. Galanis. Rosemont Seneca Bohai account.
Mr. Burlison. Rosemont Seneca Bohai. So, despite what
Hunter said during his deposition, based on your knowledge, was
Hunter Biden connected to Rosemont Seneca Bohai, was he part
owner?
Mr. Galanis. Very much so, and he said as much and had
direction and control, and was a beneficiary of the account.
So, there are emails that document he directed moneys to be
dispersed from that account, including to himself.
Mr. Burlison. Now, it sounds like despite what he is
saying, you know, that what he told the Committee that this guy
was a bad hombre, basically, that this Firtash guy connected to
Putin, and, therefore, he had to get on Ukraine. Yet, he had no
problem doing business for this corrupt Russian oligarch
connected to Putin; in fact, had no problem taking $5 million
and a direct transfer of $275,000. Would you agree?
Mr. Galanis. I agree with that, yes.
Mr. Burlison. OK. Now, Mr. Bobulinski, and I have got just
a little bit of time left, very little time. So, I want to ask
you, you know, for God's sake, Hunter Biden is doing all of
these transactions, doing all of this business, and yet his
father is Vice President, and we are to believe that his father
is not aware of all of these? He has been on the phone calls.
He has been in the meetings, and yet he is not aware that his
son is doing business with people connected to Vladimir Putin?
Are we to believe that?
Mr. Bobulinski. It is an absurd expectation.
Mr. Burlison. Thank you. My time has expired.
Chairman Comer. Very good. The Chair now recognizes Mr.
Frost for 5 minutes.
Mr. Frost. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The claims made against
the President of the United States have been so completely
proven to be lies that even House Republicans now are admitting
that it is time to close this case. Mr. Parnas, I have a few
questions for you and limited time, so really, I want to try to
get through these. And I just want everybody to know,
especially people watching at home, that you are, like, one of
the most credible witnesses that we have had throughout this
entire impeachment inquiry. First off, I just want folks to
know, for people who are not familiar, can you tell me who you
were working for between 2018 and 2019?
Mr. Parnas. Rudy Giuliani and Donald J. Trump.
Mr. Frost. And to be clear, you answered to Rudy Giuliani?
Mr. Parnas. Yes.
Mr. Frost. You answered to Donald Trump?
Mr. Parnas. Yes.
Mr. Frost. Directly?
Mr. Parnas. Directly to Rudy Giuliani and Mr. Trump.
Mr. Frost. Yes. When former President Trump and Rudy
Giuliani flew you to Ukraine to look for corruption on the part
of President Biden, did you find any?
Mr. Parnas. No.
Mr. Frost. And following your Ukraine trip, Senate
Republicans, Senators Grassley and Johnson, released their
Burisma report, which the New York Times concluded was
``unproven allegations that echo an active Russian
disinformation campaign.'' Mr. Parnas, are the unproven
allegations that are at the heart of the Republican report the
same fabricated claims that Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani sent
you to Ukraine to go dig up?
Mr. Parnas. Yes.
Mr. Frost. Last summer, you wrote a letter to Congress
noting that when the media started to get tired of the smoke
screens and using this, one of the authors of the Republican
Burisma report would be your ``guy in the Senate to push all
the information.'' What did you mean by that?
Mr. Parnas. Senator Ron Johnson was our guy in the Senate.
It was told to me that when we push the information, he is
going to push it in the halls of Congress.
Mr. Frost. So, when the media was getting skeptical about
pushing disinformation after they have proven it wrong time and
time again, the plan was to have a U.S. Senator, Ron Johnson,
to push that disinformation even further.
Mr. Parnas. Correct, because we had Congressman Nunes
already doing it, so, Senator Ron Johnson jumped on board.
Mr. Frost. This Congress, both Chairman Comer and Chairman
Jordan have centered this entire sham impeachment hearing on an
FBI tip sheet. This tip sheet made wild claims about bribery
that did not even come close to being backed up, and, in fact,
it is all being proved to be one big lie. Mr. Parnas, is the
allegation in the FBI tip sheet based on the same fabricated
claims that Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani flew you to Ukraine
to dig up?
Mr. Parnas. Yes.
Mr. Frost. I also want to make it clear that the informant
allegedly behind this tip sheet is facing criminal charges for
lying about the Biden family and was a known fraud for years
before that. The same fabricated claim kept popping up and
getting smacked down over and over again. In fact, our
colleagues at the Foreign Affairs Committee did some amazing
work on this, an investigation, and found that this lie dates
back to December 2015, almost 10 years ago. Do you happen to
know the article that I am referring to?
Mr. Parnas. I do not know the exact article, but I do know
that this lie has started way back in 2015.
Mr. Frost. It started about 10 years ago. It was an article
entitled, ``The Ukrainian Scam of the Biden Family,'' and it
was posted to a Russian language media website registered in a
city in Russian-occupied Crimea. Mr. Parnas, do you have any
doubt that this fabrication claim, the claim that Donald Trump
and Rudy Giuliani sent you to Ukraine to try to dig up more
information on, is part of Russian propaganda and an effort to
destabilize Ukraine and undermine our democracy?
Mr. Parnas. As I sit here today, I have zero doubt that
Russia is involved. This is a Russian campaign to interfere in
our elections.
Mr. Frost. Thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate it from
someone with firsthand experience. Look, to recap, there is no
evidence that support allegations that President Biden engaged
in corruption in Ukraine. We know this. Mr. Parnas himself has
made it clear that we should have no doubt that the claims of
corruption are lies and conspiracy theories rooted in a Russian
effort to undermine our democracy, posted to a Russian language
website over a decade ago.
This is exactly what Putin wants. And over the years,
Republicans have kept moving the goal posts. You just look at
the past year, right? First, it was a bribe. Then it was
Burisma. Nothing. Then it was Hunter Biden's laptop. Nothing
but some, like, nude pics that we keep seeing here. Then it was
supposed money laundering scheme that turned out to be a family
member making a couple of car payments, and now Republicans on
this Committee have left the pretense of a crime behind and are
moving the goal post to influence peddling, which sounds more
like what former President Donald Trump did in his time in
office. Look, we have been laughing a lot about this, calling
it theater and a sham, which it is, but I also want to bring up
that this is really serious.
Mr. Parnas. Yes.
Mr. Frost. I mean, we have Members of Congress and this
Committee using Russian propaganda meant to undermine our
democracy to undermine our President. It is not just theater or
laughable, but it is a betrayal of our democracy.
Mr. Parnas. That is very serious, Congressman.
Mr. Frost. Yes. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The time has expired. The Chair recognizes
Ms. Boebert from Colorado for 5 minutes.
Ms. Boebert. Well, Hunter asked for a public hearing. Here
we are, and he is nowhere to be found. I guess hidin' really
does run in the Biden family.
Now, Mr. Bobulinski, in your testimony, you state, ``It is
clear to me that Joe Biden was the brand being sold by the
Biden family.'' In your experience, what is the value to Joe
Biden in helping his family collect millions from foreign
adversaries?
Mr. Bobulinski. What is the value to Joe Biden
specifically?
Ms. Boebert. Yes.
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, his children and brothers were
enriched, which, to AOC's questions earlier, violate corruption
statutes, RICO statutes, FCPA statutes, FARA statutes.
Ms. Boebert. Yes. So, you would agree that the Biden family
was involved in this corruption and influence peddling and
selling access to the Federal Government?
Mr. Bobulinski. I do.
Ms. Boebert. Mr. Bobulinski, in your experience, did
President Biden play a more active or passive role in his son
Hunter Biden's business dealings?
Mr. Bobulinski. I quantified previously that he acted sort
of like a chairman. He showed up and shook hands----
Ms. Boebert. He has been called ``the Chairman.''
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes. He showed up, shook hands, and that is
all the Chinese, Ukrainians, Romanians, Russians, whoever need.
It is not what the Canadians, the Australians and Americans
need, but in those parts of the world, that is what they need.
Ms. Boebert. Thank you. And now, I am going to switch over
to Mr. Galanis. During his 2020 Presidential campaign, then-
candidate for President, Joe Biden, said his son did not make
any money from China. Did Joe Biden lie? Yes or no.
Mr. Galanis. Yes.
Ms. Boebert. Mr. Galanis, you are aware of the BHR Fund
that consisted of Bohai, a Chinese state-backed company;
Harvest, a China company; and Rosemont, the Biden entity,
correct?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, I have.
Ms. Boebert. And, Mr. Galanis, you are aware that Hunter
Biden formerly held 10 percent of that Chinese entity. And
would it surprise you, if you are aware, that Hunter Biden held
10 percent of this entity well into his father's presidency?
Mr. Galanis. No, I am aware that it was founded, the
business that he owned, 50 percent of 20 percent or 10 percent
directly from the outset from early on in 2014.
Ms. Boebert. And would it surprise you Kevin Morris, Hunter
Biden's fake attorney, has testified that he now holds that
interest?
Mr. Galanis. I do not have any knowledge about that, so not
much of this would surprise me.
Ms. Boebert. Mr. Bobulinski, in your testimony, you stated
the Chinese Communist Party through CEFC successfully sought to
infiltrate and compromise the Obama-Biden White House during
2015 and continued through when Joe Biden left office. Would
you agree that the CCP compromising the White House is a
serious threat----
Mr. Bobulinski. I do.
Ms. Boebert [continuing]. To our Nation's national
security?
Mr. Bobulinski. I do.
Ms. Boebert. Thank you. Now, Joe Biden has leveraged his
elected position to enable the Biden family, their business
associates, and their companies to receive over $24 million
from foreign nationals and their related companies. Biden is
compromised and is a threat to our national security. After
today, it is clear that Joe Biden is a bigger a CCP asset than
Fang Fang herself. Will we ever come to the agreement that it
is far time that Congress holds the resident of the White House
accountable for selling out the American people? Unfortunately,
my colleagues to my left have a highly coveted ``Made in
China'' product, a brand, if you will, and that is Joseph R.
Biden. Mr. Chairman, I yield the remainder of my balance to my
friend from Florida, Matt Gaetz.
Mr. Gaetz. Mr. Parnas, how much time did you spend in
prison?
Mr. Parnas. Four months.
Mr. Gaetz. Four months.
Mr. Parnas. Four months.
Mr. Gaetz. But you were indicted for crimes that could have
resulted in you spending 50 years in prison, right?
Mr. Parnas. Right. They were false crimes. The judge saw
through it, yes.
Mr. Gaetz. Well, you went to trial and you were convicted,
right?
Mr. Parnas. I went to trial, correct.
Mr. Gaetz. And the crime was that you were trying to
acquire marijuana licenses. And you took money from a Russian
oligarch, and you tried to use that money to go give political
donations and do what you had to do to acquire marijuana
licenses. Is that about right?
Mr. Parnas. That is what the indictment was, yes.
Mr. Gaetz. Right. It sounds like of everyone here today,
the only one working for a Russian oligarch was you, right? I
mean, I just heard----
Mr. Parnas. Well, I was. It is public information,
Congressman Gaetz.
Mr. Gaetz. Yes, no, I just heard you wax poetic----
Mr. Parnas. I got paid $200,000. You know how much I got
paid.
Mr. Gaetz. You are really worried about our democracy, and
you are here to warn us, but you were working for a Russian
oligarch----
Mr. Parnas. On behalf of President Trump.
Mr. Gaetz [continuing]. Wanting to get marijuana licenses,
but then you did not even do it. The fraud you committed
against the Russian oligarch was that, instead, you spent the
money on yourself. So, like, was that what you were doing----
Mr. Parnas. That was not a fraud.
Mr. Gaetz [continuing]. To fight against Russia's
aggression just taking their money?
Mr. Parnas. No, that was not the fraud. That is a lie,
Congressman Gaetz.
Mr. Gaetz. Well, that is what you were convicted of.
Mr. Parnas. No.
Mr. Gaetz. But instead of spending 50 years in prison, you
got 4 months. As this hearing continues, I look forward to
hearing what Mr. Galanis thinks about how he was treated by the
DOJ for telling the truth as opposed to how you are treated for
lying.
Mr. Parnas. The DOJ did not listen to the truth because if
they would listen to the truth, you guys would have been all in
jail.
Chairman Comer. The question Mr. Gaetz had is for Mr.
Galanis.
Mr. Parnas. They do not want to hear the truth. You cannot
handle the truth, Matt Gaetz.
Mr. Gaetz. Look, well, the truth for you is taking money
from Russians to buy marijuana businesses and then going to
jail and then coming here to lie about Trump.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time had expired.
Mr. Parnas. You should know better than anybody what the
DOJ is about.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now----
Mr. Parnas. You should know better than anybody,
Congressman.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair
now recognize Ms. Tlaib from Michigan.
Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much. It is so exhausting. This is
really incredibly exhausting, and I cannot imagine our
residents sitting at home. Every time I look up and I see our
former Chairman, our forever Chairman, Elijah Cummings, first
ever hearing in this room was about the high cost of insulin. I
think one of the first witness was a mother of twins who had to
ration her insulin and lost a child because she could not
afford it. I still remember our previous Chairwoman, who really
did a phenomenal job, continue to talk about the opioid crisis
and how the Sadler family was part of a criminal scheme to
increase addiction among family members, people just literally
losing their family members because of profit because of folks
that were literally drug dealers in suits.
All of that to say is, this House Oversight Committee, from
our Committee hearings on the Postal Service, which really
matters to our constituents; the high cost of prescription
drugs; the housing issues; the number of struggles and
challenges of everyday Americans, and they say this sincerely,
sincerely because what a waste of time. What a waste of time.
Just even some of the colleagues of my folks here continue to
say this is a waste of time. I mean, Representative Nehls said,
``I don't think we have the will to impeach Joe Biden.'' Just
for the record, impeachment is not something you have a will to
do. It is something you have to have evidence to do. I mean,
you know, you heard about Rep. Don Bacon, who said, ``When the
staff tells you that they can't identify a particular crime,
there is a problem.'' That is a problem.
I mean, you can go on and on. One top Republican admits
that, ``There is no conclusive evidence of an impeachable
offense that shows Biden acted improperly while in office to
enrich his family members.'' I mean, it goes on and on. Former
Oversight chair, Darrell Issa, who serves on Judiciary
Committee now, I think he goes on and he says, ``There is no
clear sense of where the impeachment inquiry is going.'' It
goes on and on.
I mean, look, you all, this is an incredibly important
Committee. We could be doing some phenomenal things in holding,
currently the Biden Administration, on a number of issues.
Like, I want to know about the American Rescue dollars and
where that money is being used. Is it being used toward public
health? Is it being used toward the crisis that continues to
happen and many of our families being impacted by long COVID
symptoms? I mean, these are things that we could be doing right
now in this chamber, and we are not. We are doing this over and
over again, and it is a waste of time.
Literally, every time I talk to my constituents about this,
they do not bring this up. They said, god, when is this going
to be over with? I tell them, my colleagues do not know how to
leave the campaigning at the steps of the Capitol. When we come
in here, we have to literally put that aside and work for our
constituents, work on getting some sort of understanding where
we can prioritize making sure that we have access to clean
water, what is going on with the lead abatement program within
the Administration, talking about the specific challenges that
we continue to see in our healthcare system, all of that.
Again, we can hold the Biden Administration together, Mr.
Chairman, on a number of issues we can see eye to eye on and
say we need to use this Committee to open it up to be the
watchdog Committee that we are. Instead, we are wasting--we
really, sincerely are wasting the time of the American people
doing this. This is awful. For them to see us going back and
forth like this, it is so disenchanting for them.
And you all wonder why the numbers out there, favorability
toward Congress, is so low. They really have no faith in us
because of this. This is the kind of stuff we do when,
literally, my folks are literally fighting for the right to
breathe clean air and to sit there and figure out how they are
going to afford asthma inhalers. Yet, we are here wasting the
people's time.
Mr. Raskin. Will the gentlelady yield?
Ms. Tlaib. Yes, Mr. Chair, and, again, I say this out of
somebody who is a social worker at heart. We could do so many
things bipartisan in this Committee. I know it, and I think we
are right now really missing out an opportunity to do that. We
really are.
Mr. Raskin. Ms. Tlaib----
Ms. Tlaib. I yield to our Ranking Member.
Mr. Raskin. Well, it is for a question I just wanted to ask
you because you have had tremendous success in trying to clean
up dirty water across America. We can actually get things done,
right?
Ms. Tlaib. Absolutely. And, you know, I know my colleagues
on the other side, we all have a clean water crisis. We could,
like, literally bring in folks in the EPA, bring folks into
this chamber right now and ask where is the Biden
Administration on the development of their lead abatement
initiative? These are the things that I think very much many of
my mayors, my local electeds, many of the state folks are
asking. What can we do as Members of Congress to basically have
more transparency in where their priorities are. But again, I
really say this sincerely to all of you, we can do better. We
deserve to do better. I remember Chairman Cummings constantly
reminding us that we can be better.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady's time has expired. Before I
recognize Representative Fry, for what purpose does
Representative McClain seek recognition?
Mrs. McClain. I would like to enter something in the
record. My friends on the other side of the aisle are
desperately trying to deflect from the Biden family's----
Mr. Goldman. Are you going to keep it the same way?
Mrs. McClain [continuing]. Influence-peddling scheme by
attacking President Trump and his family.
Mr. Goldman. Is this for 5 minutes?
Mrs. McClain. I would like to enter into the record an
article, ``Actually Jared Kushner and Hunter Biden Are Nothing
Alike, and Here are the Facts.'' Thank you.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
The Chair now recognizes Representative Fry for 5 minutes.
Mr. Fry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the
inconsistencies that I have kind of seen is what is on a text
message, Mr. Bobulinski, with Raymond Zhao and what Hunter
Biden testified to in his own deposition. And so, this is
infamous, we have talked about this a lot: ``Z, please have the
director call me, not James, not you, or Jim. Have him call me
tonight. I am sitting here with my father.'' We have talked
about this a lot. We have kind of got ad nauseam to it. And in
response, Raymond Zhao says, ``Copy. I will call you on
WhatsApp.'' So, on Hunter Biden's testimony on page one of
five, he states that the Zhao that he sent this to was not the
Zhao that was connected to CEFC. What do you say about that,
Mr. Bobulinski?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, I think what he is simply saying is
he made a mistake, not that he meant to send that text message,
because it is crystal clear that that message was meant for
Raymond Zhao, who was the interpreter for Director Zeng at
CEFC. But I think he tried to obfuscate in his testimony that
technically, maybe he made a mistake and texted to the wrong
person. I cannot speak to whether then he corrected that, but I
do know, based on the communications that he got on the phone
with Raymond Zhao, and set the record straight, and exactly
went through what he thought he was sending him in that
message, because it is followed up where they sort of snap to
and say, ``We will cooperate with the family.'' Why were they
willing to cooperate with the family? Because, effectively,
they were bribing the Biden family to get them to help them
with the four unsealed indictments in the SDNY.
Mr. Fry. Right.
Mr. Bobulinski. Which is the only thing that mattered to
CEFC.
Mr. Fry. And Raymond Zhao, you said he was an interpreter,
but he was a little bit more than that, too, was he not?
Mr. Bobulinski. He was like a chief of staff interpreter,
correct.
Mr. Fry. So, he was kind of the handler for the CEFC
business. Is that correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes, he spoke good English. Director Zeng
spoke very little English.
Mr. Fry. All right. So to the extent that this was the
wrong Zhao, I mean, I am not a rocket scientist, but if I get a
text message and it is somebody that it is a different Russell,
I am going to say you have got the wrong guy, correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes. His argument is he sent it to Henry
Zhao. I am assuming there is a text message somewhere where
either Henry Zhao responded, hey, I think you meant that for
somebody else.
Mr. Fry. Right. And so we just see ``Copy that. I will call
you on WhatsApp,'' right? Right. So, if you were perplexed as
to why you received a random text message that was not applied
to you----
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, that is actually Raymond Zhao----
Mr. Fry. Right.
Mr. Bobulinski [continuing]. Saying I will call you.
Mr. Fry. That is what I am saying.
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Mr. Fry. So, the issue that he brings up, though, is that
he was confused and it was the wrong Zhao. I want to ask you a
couple more questions real quick. Hunter Biden's transcript on
page 42, he said, ``I officially began to work for CEFC when I
received a retainer from CEFC in early or spring of 2017.'' Is
that true?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, it goes back to the word
``official.'' He is parsing words. Hunter Biden started working
for CEFC in the fall of 2015 and worked for CEFC throughout
2016. That was confirmed to me by him, by James Gilliar, by Rob
Walker, numerous face-to-face conversations on it, numerous
meetings.
Mr. Fry. Right. So, this is not true. On page 48 of the
transcript, Hunter is asked, ``he has never interacted with any
of your business associates. Is that correct?'' The ``he'' he
is referring to is Joe Biden. Is that true?
Mr. Bobulinski. That is a lie.
Mr. Fry. Hunter lied to the Committee about important
details concerning his money demands and threats to CEFC, based
on this WhatsApp message right here. On page one of five of his
testimony, Hunter states, ``My father had no awareness. My
father had no awareness of the business I was doing.'' Is that
true?
Mr. Bobulinski. That is a lie.
Mr. Fry. You also talked about how Jim Biden also lied
extensively throughout his own testimony, and that Jim was
selling plausible deniability for many years, that he could not
tell the truth from a lie. On page 100 of Jim Biden's
transcript, Jim is asked, ``Do you recall having a meeting with
Hunter Biden and Tony Bobulinski and Joe Biden?'' Jim's
response was, ``Absolutely not.'' Jim states that Joe Biden
never met with Tony Bobulinski. Is that true?
Mr. Bobulinski. That is a lie, and I am shocked that his
lawyer sitting next to him, a former U.S. attorney, allowed him
to say that lie three different times in that transcribed
interview.
Mr. Fry. Right. When pressed, he continued to double down
on that.
Mr. Bobulinski. He got excited. His lawyer had to calm him
down, and he continued to lie about it.
Mr. Fry. On page 124 of the transcript, Jim Biden states,
``It was Hunter Biden, myself, Gilliar. I don't know. It was
the five, OK? And everybody was 20 percent, OK? You know what?
You know, it was never executed. It was never signed.'' And he
is referring, of course, to the contract or the agreement. Is
that true?
Mr. Bobulinski. That is a lie. He fully executed the legal
document, Oneida Holdings, LLC, as did Hunter, James Gilliar,
Rob Walker, and myself.
Mr. Fry. Thank you for your testimony today.
Mr. Bobulinski. Thank you.
Mr. Fry. Yours has been the consistent testimony throughout
this process, unlike the other people who have come before this
Committee. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chaiman Comer. Very good. The Chair now recognizes Ms.
Pressley from Massachusetts for 5 minutes.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When Elijah Cummings
was the Chair of this Committee, he often reminded us that our
role was to be in efficient and effective pursuit of the truth.
So, I am going to try to do exactly that because this farce has
gone 15 months, 10,000 documents and 11,000 hours too long, and
we have got a lot of ground to cover here.
Mr. Parnas, thank you for being here. Last year, you wrote
a long letter to Chairman Comer, detailing your extensive role
in the ``campaign orchestrated by Giuliani and Trump to dig up
dirt on the Bidens and to spread misinformation about them
through various networks, including government officials,
journalists, and Fox News personnel.'' When that campaign
failed to find dirt because, well, there was no dirt to be
found, the former occupant of the White House demanded that
Ukrainian political officials announce investigations into the
Biden family in order to smear Joe Biden prior to the 2020
Presidential election. Yes or no, Mr. Parnas, before Trump and
Rudy Giuliani tasked you to try to find dirt on the Bidens in
Ukraine, did you ever interact with Mr. Trump?
Mr. Parnas. Before they asked me? Yes, I have had many
interactions.
[Chart]
Ms. Pressley. OK. And you wrote to the Committee that in
late 2018, you attended a holiday party at Trump's White House,
as shown in this picture. Can you describe your interactions
with Donald Trump during this party?
Mr. Parnas. Yes, we came to the event. There was a Hanukkah
party. Rudy Giuliani joined us. We were supposed to all go to
the residence, but the last second, Rudy said to wait for him
downstairs. He was going to go meet Trump himself and update
him on everything that was going on. He went to meet Trump at
the residence. We waited at the White House, then eventually
when Trump came down to make a speech, Secret Service came up
to us and said that the President wanted to wait for us at the
Red Room. So, we proceeded to the Red Room and waited for Trump
to finish his speech. Then he came in, approached me, shook my
hand and said, ``Rudy tells me great things. Keep up the good
work. Thank you.'' And then we proceeded to take pictures.
Ms. Pressley. Mr. Parnas, when Trump told you to keep up
the good work, what did you understand him to be referring to
exactly?
Mr. Parnas. Well, at that point, the conversation was about
Ukraine and Giuliani wanting me to go find Viktor Shokin, so
that is what I took it as keep up the good work. We would go
get Viktor Shokin on our way to Ukraine.
Ms. Pressley. Mr. Parnas, after the party, did you interact
with Trump again, or were you cutoff from interacting with him?
Mr. Parnas. After our trip to Ukraine, we were cutoff
because the BLT team was formed, and the line of communication
started going through Rudy Giuliani because they did not want
anybody to know that is me with him because I was in Ukraine
doing the stuff.
Ms. Pressley. I see. So, is it fair to say, Mr. Parnas,
that you think you were no longer invited to interact with
Trump to create a buffer between President Trump and your work
with Giuliani to generate evidence of Joe Biden's misconduct in
Ukraine?
Mr. Parnas. I was told that. I was told that you are going
to stop going to the private events and stuff like that while
you are doing this.
Ms. Pressley. I see. So, despite President Trump's efforts
to insulate himself from associating with you, as you sought
evidence of Biden corruption in Ukraine, you maintained your
contacts with individuals in Trump's innermost circle,
including Donald Trump Jr., correct?
Mr. Parnas. Absolutely, yes.
Ms. Pressley. Well, you know, as the saying goes, a leopard
cannot change their spots. And so, Mr. Parnas, you are a prime
example of Donald Trump's habit of welcoming people into his
inner circle, and then creating distance or the appearance of
it from them as he relies on them to commit improper acts. Now,
Donald Trump has demanded that Joe Biden be impeached, has
enlisted Oversight Republicans to do his dirty work in an
attempt to try to win the 2024 Presidential election by
promoting the same lies about President Biden, lies that are
firmly rooted in Russia's disinformation and propaganda effort
to influence U.S. elections and undermine Ukraine in the midst
of a vicious Russian invasion. I yield to Mr. Goldman.
Mr. Goldman. Thank you very much, Ms. Pressley. I want to
get back to this photograph here that I got cutoff from before.
[Chart]
You, Mr. Bobulinski, you called a number of people liars,
six FBI agents.
Mr. Bobulinski. I did not call the six FBI agents liars.
Mr. Goldman. I am talking. If you go to page----
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, you know better, Mr. Goldman.
Mr. Goldman. OK. Go to page 174 of the transcript, and you
said it is not an accurate statement. It is a lie related to an
FBI report.
Mr. Bobulinski. I did not call them liars.
Mr. Goldman. I do not have time. Quiet. Now, this is a
photo that was provided by Cassidy Hutchinson after you called
her a liar when she said that you met with Mark Meadows and
received an envelope. Do you see this photo? Do you acknowledge
that is Mark Meadows in the red hat?
Mr. Bobulinski. Didn't you tell me to be quiet? I do not--
--
Mr. Goldman. I asked you a question. Do you acknowledge
that that is Mark Meadows?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, maybe your person can walk it closer
so I can see it.
Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, would you indulge since he is
not answering the question, filibustering?
Chairman Comer. Fifteen seconds over, but----
Mr. Goldman. Well, let me just ask it very briefly. Is that
you and Mr. Meadows by Secret Service cars with you in a mask?
Mr. Bobulinski. Are you kidding, Mr. Goldman? I am sitting
20 feet away from it.
Mr. Goldman. Go up to him, please. Go right up to him.
Chairman Comer. And your time has expired. Maybe Mr.
Swalwell will give you some time.
Mr. Goldman. Could he just answer the question----
Mr. Raskin. He can answer the question, right?
Mr. Bobulinski. So, what I see in this picture is a Secret
Service agent 5 feet from me with a full mask on and a Secret
Service agent sitting in a Cadillac Escalade with all the
windows up with a full mask on.
Mr. Goldman. Is that you----
Mr. Bobulinski. You are making a big deal----
Mr. Goldman [continuing]. Talking to the person in the red
hat?
Mr. Bobulinski. It is the back of his head.
Mr. Goldman. Is that you talking to the person in the red
hat?
Mr. Bobulinski. Why don't you ask me this, Mr. Goldman? Did
I meet Mr. Meadows at a Trump rally in Georgia? I did. I
acknowledge that.
Mr. Goldman. Is it you? Oh, you did?
Mr. Bobulinski. I did.
Chairman Comer. Mr. Goldman, I have----
Mr. Goldman. But Cassidy Hutchinson is a liar.
Mr. Bobulinski. Cassidy Hutchinson is a liar because she
said----
Chairman Comer. Time has expired.
Mr. Bobulinski [continuing]. That he handed me an envelope.
Mr. Meadows did not give me a single thing.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes----
Mr. Goldman. I am glad we have the clear story.
Chairman Comer. Your time has expired. Maybe Mr. Swalwell
will yield us some time. The Chair now recognizes Mr.
Langworthy from Buffalo for 5 minutes.
Mr. Langworthy. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Glad it
is so quiet in here.
On the first day of the Biden presidency, then-Press
Secretary, Jen Psaki, claimed that President Biden's objective
and his commitment was to bring ``transparency and truth back
to government, to share the truth even when it is hard to
hear.'' That is obviously laughable, just about as laughable as
when Hunter Biden claimed that he was trained to avoid wire
fees when he had Rob Walker launder a $1 million payment from a
Chinese company through 16 different bank wires to Hunter,
Hallie, and Jim Biden's accounts. If you are trying to avoid
wire fees, then why send four different wires over 3 months to
the same account? It is a total joke.
A glaring example of President Biden's failure to live up
to his promise to bring transparency is his influence peddling
in Ukraine, where he pressured the Ukrainian Government to fire
Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin, who was investigating the
owner of Burisma. While Joe Biden was Vice President, in 2014,
his son Hunter Biden was asked by Burisma's owners to join the
board, a paid position. The Committee has sought documents from
the administration regarding Vice President Biden's influence
peddling in the Ukraine. The Administration which claims
transparency has failed to produce these documents.
I will give you an example. On September 2015, the United
States was steadfast in its belief that the owner of Burisma
was the face of corruption in Ukraine. The Administration vowed
to work with the prosecutor general to tackle corruption in the
country. However, that all changed after a phone call from
Hunter Biden and the owner of Burisma to Hunter's Washington,
DC. associates in 2015. A few days later, Vice President Biden
delivered his speech to the Ukrainian legislature and privately
pressured the Ukrainian President to fire the prosecutor
general.
The Oversight Committee has asked the White House for
drafts of Vice President Biden's speech to the Ukrainian
legislature from 2015. They have withheld those draft speeches
for nearly 7 months. To this date, we have not been able to
review them. We all want to know whether there were edits to
the speech after Hunter called D.C. We all want to know whether
the then-Vice President changed course to protect his son and
his corrupt business associates. We all want to know whether
the Biden family's business dealings affected American policy
toward Ukraine. The White House claims to be committed to
bringing truth and transparency to government. It just seems
like it is only interested when it is convenient for his
Administration.
Now, Mr. Bobulinski, did Hunter ever tell you at any point
the value of the Burisma income to him?
Mr. Bobulinski. I do not recall him ever mentioning that to
me.
Mr. Langworthy. OK. Did he ever say it was his only income
at that time?
Mr. Bobulinski. Oh, OK. Actually, I stand corrected. There
is a text message. I never discussed it with him. I was in
Monaco at the Grand Prix. He was in Monaco for the Burisma
board meeting. He set up a meeting with me. He did not show up
at that meeting. Obviously, you can imagine I was not too
happy, and he responded to a text, me asking him what is going
on. And in that text, he states he is on the back of Khola's
yacht, fighting for the only income he has, but it was not from
Burisma. It was from the Kazakh deal that he is talking about.
I never discussed that with him after that. That was a single
exchange between him and I.
Mr. Langworthy. Well, corruption and a lack of transparency
from the Biden family have been common themes through the House
Oversight Committee's investigation. And even when asking for
simple drafts of then-Vice President Biden's speech in the
Ukraine, the White House has been anything but transparent.
President Biden has done and will continue to do everything in
his power to cover up the truth, especially when it is hard to
hear, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back--Mr. Bobulinski--
yields back to me for 1 minute. Is there anything that you want
to respond to? Do not worry about Mr. Goldman. We do not pay
any attention to Mr. Goldman either, but is there anything that
anyone said up here that you want to take about 55 seconds to
respond to?
Mr. Bobulinski. It is tempting. I mean, my biggest appeal
to everyone in this room is, I wish you would spend the time
focusing on the fact that the Chinese Communist Party
infiltrated the White House of the United States of America
through the Biden family. I do not say that lightly. It is not
a joke. I was willing to die for this country, as was my father
and both my grandfathers and my brother. It is a serious,
serious stuff. We should be asking how that happened. Take the
Biden name and the Biden family completely out of it. How did
the Chinese Communist Party infiltrate the White House, the
United States of America? Let us start there. Focus on those
facts, what they did, how they did it, why they used money, why
they used private enterprises instead of military stuff and
other stuff? That is huge to our national security. So, I
appreciate you yielding that time to me, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Well, thank you, and I will just say this,
Ms. Tlaib and Ms. Pressley criticized the investigation, but I
think most Americans care about public corruption, and they
realize the FBI has not done the job, that DOJ has not done
their job, the IRS has not done their job. They have been told
to stand down, all except the House Oversight Committee, and we
will do our job.
And pursuant to the previous order, because votes have been
called again, the Committee stands in recess. Subject to the
call of the Chair, the Committee will reconvene 5 minutes after
floor votes.
[Recess.]
Chairman Comer. The Committee hearing will reconvene. The
Chair recognizes Mr. Swalwell for 5 minutes.
Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Bobulinski, in your interactions with the
Biden family, which you have told us all about throughout the
day, did you ever observe the Chinese Government grant 22
patents to any of Joe Biden's children while Joe Biden was in
office?
Mr. Bobulinski. I did not.
Mr. Swalwell. Did you ever observe Joe Biden ever own or
operate any hotels while he was in public office and take
millions of dollars from foreign governments?
Mr. Bobulinski. I did not.
Mr. Swalwell. Did you ever observe Joe Biden employ any of
his children or their spouses in the White House as Vice
President or President?
Mr. Bobulinski. I did not. I cannot speak to that.
Mr. Swalwell. Did you ever observe, while observing the
Bidens, the Bidens install a family member to be the co-chair
of the DNC?
Mr. Bobulinski. I am sorry. Ask the question again.
Mr. Swalwell. Did you ever observe the Bidens install a
family member to be the co-chair of the Democratic National
Committee?
Mr. Bobulinski. I did not.
Mr. Swalwell. Did President Biden or anyone in his family
take $2 billion from the Saudi Government?
Mr. Bobulinski. Not that I am aware of.
Mr. Swalwell. Did President Biden or anyone in his family
get fined $355 million for tax fraud?
Mr. Bobulinski. Not that I am aware of.
Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Parnas, as you have observed Mr.
Bobulinski today in his fealty and dedication and loyalty to
the Trump family, is that something you recognize as somebody
who was also in that cult before?
Mr. Parnas. Absolutely.
Mr. Swalwell. Is there a hope for our man Tony here?
Mr. Parnas. Very little, I think, until he hits a brick
wall.
Mr. Swalwell. And in your experience, on a scale of 1 to
10, how eager was the Trump Campaign, in your interactions, to
manufacture dirt on Joe Biden, 1 to 10, 10 being the highest.
Mr. Parnas. Ten-plus.
Mr. Swalwell. Ten-plus. Would it surprise you, Mr. Parnas,
that the Russians in their disinformation campaign outlets have
often cited Chairman Comer's testimony and allegations against
the Biden family to make their own allegations against Joe
Biden?
Mr. Parnas. No, it does not surprise me because that is
exactly what they want to happen.
Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Chairman, it is over. It is over. It is
time to pack it up. I want to give you the top 10 reasons why
impeachment is dead. Number 10, your key witness today is
testifying from the slammer. Number 9, key evidence of a bribe
that you all relied on, the guy who said that has been indicted
for lying about that bribe, and he is a Russian asset. Number
8, another key witness has been indicted as a Chinese agent.
Number 7, during the Hunter Biden interview, Mr. Chairman, you
did not even stay for the whole time. Number 6, Chairman Jason
Smith did not show up at all to the Hunter Biden interview. The
same day, number 5, Darrell Issa said it is a big nothing.
Number 4, today, Jim Jordan began his remarks not by
relying on any evidence for this investigation, but he went off
attacking the DOJ about what they are doing with the Catholics.
Number 3, you all still have not sent the articles of
impeachment for the Mayorkas impeachment to the Senate, and
that happened last month. Number 2, you are now talking about a
criminal referral, but if you had evidence for a criminal
referral, then you have evidence to impeach somebody for high
crimes and misdemeanors. And number 1, and I am sorry to say
this, Fox News is not even carrying this today. In fact, one of
their anchors, as they broke away 10 minutes in, said this is
the same hearing over and over and over.
At what point are you going to fish or cut bait? So, I just
have to tell you, it is over. Impeachment is over. Dunzo, bye-
bye, rigor mortis, lights out, curtain drop, mic drop, peace,
adios, sayonara, au revoir, or a language that you all
understand, ``Dasvidaniya.'' Did I say that right, Mr. Parnas?
Mr. Parnas. Yes.
Mr. Swalwell. I dare you to impeach, but you will not
because you do not have the evidence, and because you do not
have the evidence, you do not have the votes. Guys, it is dead,
and so I am here to pronounce the time of death, 5:16----
Mrs. Luna. Say it in Chinese.
Mr. Swalwell [continuing]. Impeachment is dead. 5:16, Biden
impeachment is dead. Joe Biden has been acquitted.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair
now recognizes Mrs. Luna from Florida for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Luna. Mr. Parnas, I want to read to you a few quotes
from a letter that you wrote to the House Oversight Committee.
First you said that, ``I will remind you that Zlochevsky's
answers are in the report that the House Oversight Committee
published.'' In this document he stated that Hunter Biden was
never asked or assigned to speak with anyone in the U.S. on
behalf of Burisma. Mr. Parnas, are you aware that, according to
Amos Hochstein, a U.S. State Department official, in a
transcribed interview with the Senate, Hunter Biden requested
to have a meeting with him in November 2015? Mr. Hochstein
testified that he met with Hunter Biden and they spoke about
Burisma. So yes or no, that statement that you made to House
Oversight was incorrect?
Mr. Parnas. The statement was correct because the
statement----
Mrs. Luna. Yes or no.
Mr. Parnas [continuing]. The statement is coming from the--
--
Mrs. Luna. So you said, yes, it was.
Mr. Parnas [continuing]. Words of the CEO of Burisma.
Mrs. Luna. It is directly conflicting the testimony.
Mr. Parnas. This was his answers----
Mrs. Luna. Next question. There were no political or
lobbying firm----
Mr. Parnas [continuing]. Those on behalf of the answers
from the CEO of Burisma.
Mrs. Luna [continuing]. Efforts on behalf of Burisma in
your statement that you made to House Oversight. Mr. Parnas,
are you aware that Burisma's engagement of Blue Star
Strategies, which was a lobbying firm that was lobbying the
U.S. Government on behalf of Burisma and Mykola Zlochevsky,
and, according to Sally Painter and Karen Tramontano, the heads
of Burisma? So, that statement, again, that you wrote to this
committee was incorrect. Yes or no?
Mr. Parnas. No, you are incorrect because I said----
Mrs. Luna. No, that is incorrect.
Mr. Parnas. No, the----
Mrs. Luna. You are directly conflicting with that.
Mr. Parnas. No, no.
Mrs. Luna. My final question for you, Mr. Parnas, is
actually that nobody from Burisma----
Mr. Parnas. The answers were given, but not by me. By the
CEO of Burisma.
Mrs. Luna [continuing]. Has ever spoken to Joe Biden.
Chairman Comer. The witness will say----
Mrs. Luna. It is OK, Chairman. I got him. Mr. Parnas, Devon
Archer testified to this Committee that Vadym Pozharsky, the
corporate secretary of Burisma sat down for dinner with Joe
Biden. So, that statement also was incorrect that you wrote to
this Committee. Yes or no?
Mr. Parnas. No, it is not incorrect because----
Mrs. Luna. Mr. Chairman, I think this witness' credibility
is shot. I would like to give the remaining of my time to the
amazing representative from Florida, Representative Matt Gaetz.
Chairman Comer. Very good.
Mr. Gaetz. The Democrats could have sent anyone. They could
have sent Hunter Biden. They could have sent Joe Biden. They
could have sent Rob Walker. They could have sent Devon Archer.
The Democrats could have sought any person to come in and
refute the direct evidence backed up by bank statements, backed
up by calendar entries, backed up by emails, backed up by text
messages. And who did the Democrats send to clear the name of
Joe and Hunter Biden? They sent Lev Parnas, Lev Parnas who was
charged with enough crimes, violating our campaign finance laws
to, like, serve 50 years, but he gets 4 months. And, like, the
big, like, grand criminal conspiracy Mr. Parnas is involved in
is using Russian oligarch money to try to get marijuana
licenses, which seems odd, and then using that Russian money to
plow into campaigns in order to achieve that objective.
But the fraud he committed was not just on our election
system by plowing Russian money. It was also a fraud on his own
investors who did not get it. So I guess, Mr. Bobulinski, as
you hear Maxwell Frost, my colleague on the Democrat side, say
that Mr. Parnas, fresh off of his prison time is the most
credible witness we have had to address these business
dealings, what is your reaction to that?
Mr. Bobulinski. I think it is laughable that the Democrats
are asking Lev Parnas to weigh in on my credibility, a
convicted felon that served jail time. I have an impeccable
record. Now, he warned me earlier in this hearing that they are
coming for me. I look forward to that.
Mr. Parnas. I did not warn you. I said, ``Just keep
talking. You will be there soon.''
Mr. Bobulinski. I look forward to that, Mr. Parnas.
Mr. Parnas. Keep lying. You will be there soon.
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, and is that a threat, Mr. Parnas?
Mr. Parnas. No, it is just the truth.
Mr. Bobulinski. No. Did you say they were coming for me?
Mr. Parnas. No. I said if you keep lying, you will end up
in prison.
Mr. Bobulinski. I am not lying. You are the one who was
lying.
Mr. Parnas. Well, I have nothing to be scared of.
Mr. Bobulinski. You are the one who went to prison for
lying.
Mr. Parnas. What am I lying for? Tell me what I am lying
for, Mr. Bobulinski.
Mr. Bobulinski. What?
Mr. Parnas. You do not even know what you are talking
about. What am I lying?
Mr. Bobulinski. You went to prison for----
Mr. Parnas. What lie?
Mr. Bobulinski [continuing]. Lying and defrauding your
investors.
Mr. Parnas. What am I lying here? What am I lying here?
Mr. Bobulinski. Oh, the list is long. We do not have enough
time. I think----
Mr. Parnas. Exactly, yes.
Mr. Bobulinski [continuing]. Mr. Gaetz only has a minute.
Mr. Parnas. I think you are a little scared just like Mr.
Gaetz----
Mr. Bobulinski. So, what crime----
Mr. Parnas [continuing]. Because Mr. Gaetz does not even
ask a question. You are filibustering. I have been here for 6
hours, and not one of your Committee Members asked me one
question. You want to hear the truth?
Mr. Gaetz. Well, I asked you--hold on.
Mr. Parnas. No. You----
Mr. Gaetz. I asked a question about your illegal business
dealings----
Mr. Parnas. I have been here for 7 hours.
Mr. Gaetz. Mr. Bobulinski?
Mr. Parnas. Ask me some questions.
Mr. Gaetz. Fraud is a crime, right?
Mr. Parnas. Go ahead.
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct, fraud is a crime.
Mr. Gaetz. Fraud is a crime, and you observed fraud on the
part of the Bidens, right?
Mr. Bobulinski. I did, crystal clear, so much so I had an
independent law firm spend $300,000 to analyze that fraud and
put together a fully ready, fileable lawsuit against the Biden
family.
Mr. Gaetz. And bribery is a crime, right?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Mr. Gaetz. And what you observed with Joe Biden trying to
get you into this business deal with Hunter Biden, what you
later learned about that business deal, and how the money was
flowing from the Chinese Communist Party to Hunter Biden, to
other members of the Biden family, did that concern you as a
potential feature of money laundering?
Mr. Bobulinski. It did. It did. I started to grow concerned
after I met Joe Biden, and then I sat down with Jim Biden and
used the term ``plausible deniability'' with me. And that is
documented because I went back to my lawyers and I asked them
something is starting to feel not right. And they went and
hired another law firm to give me a full FCPA workup to go
through the details of what could be done and what could not be
done.
Mr. Gaetz. Sounds like high crimes and misdemeanors to me,
Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. Very good. The Chair now recognizes the
Chairwoman of the House Education Committee, Ms. Foxx from
North Carolina. Dr. Foxx.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank my
colleagues for what you have been doing here today, unraveling
these issues.
Mr. Galanis, in your written testimony, you state that your
``objective was to build a diversified private equity platform,
which would be anchored by a globally known Wall Street brand
together with a globally known political name, Biden.'' Is it
correct that Harvest Fund Management, a $300 billion Chinese
financial services company, closely connected to the Chinese
Communist Party, CCP, was interested in partnering with you and
your business partners?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, that is correct.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you. Why was the CCP-connected Harvest Fund
Management interested in doing business with you and your
partners, Hunter Biden and Devon Archer?
Mr. Galanis. The only plausible reason, and the reason we
even discussed, was because of the access to the provider.
There was a quote that is attributed to Henry Zhao, the
Chairman, that talked about the access that it provided. So,
there is documentation that was contemporaneous that said what
their interest was and that interest was political access.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you. Is it correct that Harvest Fund
Management believed that Joe Biden would take a seat on that
company's board after his vice presidency ended?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, that is correct, and there were emails to
that effect around that time that were circulated by people who
were there as part of those conversations, including the golf
outing.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you. Are you aware of Hunter Biden ever
speaking to his father, Joe Biden, about the plan to have him
join the board of Harvest Fund Management?
Mr. Galanis. Yes, I witnessed that. Yes.
Ms. Foxx. It seems clear that Joe Biden was aware of his
family's use of his office and influence to do business with
America's adversaries and, therefore, a choice to pursue
personal gain over national security. Mr. Bobulinski, is it
true that former Vice President Joe Biden met with Ye Jianming,
the Chairman of CEFC China Energy?
Mr. Bobulinski. It is based on Rob Walker saying yes to
that in a transcribed interview. I personally was not at that
meeting.
Ms. Foxx. When did this meeting take place, based on what
Mr. Walker said?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes. In my understanding, it would have
been February 2017. After they had a meeting in Miami, I
believe James Gilliar got on the corporate jet of CEFC and flew
with Ye Jianming and Director Zhang to D.C. in preparation for
that meeting.
Ms. Foxx. After this meeting with former Vice President Joe
Biden and Chairman Ye, were any payments made to the Biden
family or associates?
Mr. Bobulinski. Yes. Well, it gets to that point of
obfuscation. Three million dollars was wired to Rob Walker's
account on March 1st. Actually, they sent two wires. The first
wire got kicked back, and then they sent a second wire on March
1, 2017, to Robinson Walker, LLC, and then, as your Committee
has walked through today, they parse that out to the Biden
family in numerous different payments.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, it is clear that Joe
Biden is the common element in all of Hunter Biden's attempts
to do business with China. There is a pattern emerging that the
Biden family and associates, including Joe Biden himself,
deliberately chose personal gain over the safety and best
interest of the very Americans Joe Biden was elected to serve,
protect and defend. With that, I will yield the balance of my
time to Mr. Gaetz.
Mr. Gaetz. Hunter Biden's deposition, question: ``Do you
think some of your business associates we have spoken about
today--Mr. Archer, Mr. Bobulinski, Mr. Galanis--do you think
they had an expectation that your dad had any role or
involvement in any of your joint business dealings?'' Answer
from Hunter Biden: ``Not an expectation from me. There was
never a single time I can remember saying, hey, we will get my
dad involved. Hey, let's get my dad on the phone. Hey, let's,
you know, what can we get out of dad for this?'' Mr. Galanis,
what is your reaction to that testimony from Hunter Biden in
light of you describing the Biden lift?
Mr. Galanis. I think it is patently false as belied by
emails, and I think that there is documentation that says that
is just an untruthful statement.
Mr. Gaetz. And what I am trying to understand, Mr. Galanis,
is there you are sitting in a prison cell for a financial crime
where you were an associate with Hunter Biden and some of the
others players there. And they are out enjoying Southern
California and you are sitting in a prison cell, and they have
got the ability to come and give this false testimony to
Congress. Is it your belief that the Biden Justice Department
retaliates against people who speak out against the Bidens and
their crimes?
Mr. Galanis. I am living that. I think, to clarify, I took
responsibility for my clients. I pleaded guilty. I have served
8 years, clean conduct, and I think I have rehabilitated myself
quite a bit in that period of time--in evidence and track
record, but I would say that there is unquestionably a pattern
of two tiers of justice and that has become a popularized term,
and it is something that I have lived, experience that I have
gone through.
Mr. Gaetz. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. Before I recognize Mr. Waltz, for what
purpose does Mr. Biggs seek recognition?
Mr. Biggs. I want to include an article in the record. The
article is entitled, ``Tlaib Renews Her `Impeach the MF'er'
Call Against Trump.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Chairman Comer. For what purpose does Mr. Gaetz seek
recognition?
Mr. Gaetz. Mr. Chairman, I seek unanimous consent to enter
into the record the press release from the Department of
Justice, ``Lev Parnas Sentenced to 20 Months in Prison for
Campaign Finance, Wire Fraud, and False Statement Offenses.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
The Chair now recognizes Mr. Waltz from Florida.
Mr. Waltz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I find it
incredibly rich, Mr. Swalwell was going to come to this
Committee and lecture us about how China penetrates our
government. I think that is something he may know a thing or
two about, but let us talk about how China has penetrated the
highest levels of this government, including this President and
this White House because I think the visual is incredibly
important.
[Chart]
Mr. Bobulinski, Hunter Biden portrayed Chairman Ye, the
Chairman of CEFC, to Jim Biden as a protege of Xi. Is that
accurate?
Mr. Bobulinski. Not only is it accurate, and it was not
just Hunter Biden. It was James Gilliar, Rob Walker. I would
not have used the word ``protege.'' They just basically, you
know----
Mr. Waltz. You do not run China's largest state-owned
energy company without being close to the chairman.
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Mr. Waltz. Right? Fair enough. And by the mid-2000's,
Chairman Ye ran a business empire estimated, as much as you can
estimated a Chinese state-owned enterprise, tens of billions,
and from a national security standpoint, this is the critical
piece here, including implementing China's Belt and Road
Initiative, not just all over the world, right here in the
United States. Is that accurate?
Mr. Bobulinski. A hundred percent. So, CEFC was effectively
the shadow arm of the Chinese Government, deploying tens of
billions of dollars around the world, very well documented. At
its peak, I think it was doing $50 billion of revenue per year,
one of the top five largest----
Mr. Waltz. Debt diplomacy where they are taking electrical
grids, they are bribing officials. They take as collateral, not
just grids, ports, airports, key infrastructure that the
Chinese Government could then leverage and use against any
country, but also here in the United States. I mean, that is
how the Belt and Road Initiative works. Heck, I was just in the
Armed Services Committee with the Commander of INDOPACOM, the
AOR Pacific Command, talking about how China is basically
gobbling up infrastructure around the world, including here. So
by the mid, what, 2015, 2016, Hunter Biden has developed a very
lucrative business relationship. By 2017, Hunter Biden has
forged such a partnership with Chairman Ye, that he planned to
share an office space with him, and then just removed Vice
President Biden at the House of Sweden in Washington, DC,
correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Mr. Waltz. So, here is what is interesting, and building on
Chairman Foxx's questions, within days of him leaving the vice
presidency, ostensibly for work performed, $3 million flows
through the shell companies that we have depicted here. I mean,
you could see how complicated this is, but the key piece is the
flow to Hallie Biden, to Jim and Sara Biden, to Hunter Biden
and his various affiliates. And the kicker here, Mr. Chairman,
is that we know Hunter is then complaining about paying all his
dad's bills. He is complaining to the other relatives saying,
``You freeloaders, I am having to use all this money to pay the
``Big Guy's'' bills, house renovations, and all kinds of
things,'' correct?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct. And it is important for the
American people to understand that $3 million was $3 million of
$20 million that the Bidens expected to be paid for the work in
2015 and 2016.
Mr. Waltz. Mr. Chairman----
Mr. Bobulinski. And that is not just my word. That is
documented----
Mr. Waltz. That is all documented, bank records, text
messages, emails. So, Mr. Chairman, Bob Menendez's wife cannot
get paid by the Egyptians and then provide that money over to
pay Gold Bar Bob's, Senator Menendez's, bills. I cannot have my
daughter get paid by, I do not know, Kazakhstan, Russia, and
China, and then pay my bills.
Chairman Comer. Correct.
Mr. Waltz. And we know also that they had co-mingled funds
with the Vice President of United States. When we talk about
crimes, let us talk about the crimes. We know he perjured
himself. That is a crime. We know he was acting as a foreign
agent, and was he registered under FARA? Was he registered as a
foreign agent?
Mr. Bobulinski. Not that I am aware of.
Mr. Waltz. Was his dad complicit in him acting as a foreign
agent through meetings and dinners and what have you? That is
crime.
Mr. Bobulinski. A hundred percent.
Mr. Waltz. That is crime No. 2. He was clearly acting in
that capacity. We have the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, and
we already have them, thanks to the work of this Committee, for
tax evasion. So, Mr. Chairman, there are multiple crimes that
this Committee has established, ample evidence. We must move to
impeachment. We cannot allow this to stand, and I look forward
to seeing those references to the Department of Justice for
this alone. This is a critical national security issue. The
Chinese Communist Party call it the princelings. They do not go
after the principal they want to influence. They go through the
son, and it is right out of their playbook, and they have done
it at the highest levels of the U.S. Government. I yield my
time.
Chairman Comer. Very good.
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, I just have a couple of UC
requests, if it is all right.
Chairman Comer. Proceed.
Mr. Raskin. One is from Devon Archer's transcribed
interview testifying that Biden, Joe Biden, had nothing to do
with any of Devon Archer's business ventures with Hunter.
Second is the declassified intelligence community assessment
from the National Intelligence Council, March 2021, detailing
efforts by Russian actors to interfere in the 2020 U.S.
elections. And finally, most importantly, the U.S. District
Court decision from the Southern District of New York in United
States v. Galanis where Mr. Galanis was described as a con
artist who wanted to be in business with Hunter Biden but never
was and how they thought that they could add layers of
legitimacy to their con operation. If I could have those
introduced.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Now the Chair recognizes Mr. Gaetz from Florida.
Mr. Gaetz. You are a serious business person, Mr.
Bobulinski, right?
Mr. Bobulinski. I am.
Mr. Gaetz. Unlike the convicted felon next to you, you have
served in the military, right?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Mr. Gaetz. You have done big deals.
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Mr. Gaetz. Complicated deals, deals that involve foreign
businesses, right?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct.
Mr. Gaetz. And so, what I am trying to figure out is when
you came to realize that you showed up at the wrong party,
because you kind of strike me as the guy who showed up to do a
legitimate business deal, and you ended up instead at a bribe.
And so, as you are looking at CEFC, as you are having this
meeting with Joe Biden, as Hunter Biden is introducing you to
his web of contacts, when did you go from serious businessman,
Tony Bobulinski, working to make a buck in a capitalist system,
to a guy worried that you had been unwittingly ensnared into
Hunter and Joe Biden's bribe operation with the Chinese
Communist Party?
Mr. Bobulinski. I appreciate the question. It was not a aha
moment. It was more of a process. I am a serious businessman
demonstrated by the different deals I have done around the
world and the success of them. But remember, the Biden family
was not my entry into this. James Gilliar, who I had known for
over 10 years, who traveled the world doing business, kept
trying to get me involved. I really had no interest. I sat down
in the spring of 2017 to walk through things, and then I
quickly put together two businesses, SinoHawk and Oneida. After
the meetings in Los Angeles with Hunter and Joe Biden, bells
and whistles started to go off when Jim Biden used the term
``plausible deniability.''
Mr. Gaetz. Plausible deniability is the first moment,
straight from the lips of Jim Biden, right on the heels of your
discussion with Joe Biden, where you start to think this might
not be legit?
Mr. Bobulinski. Correct. And my lawyers at the time could
attest to that because I reached out to them saying, listen, I
am a former naval officer. I held a Q security clearance.
Somebody could not take me to dinner for $50. This just does
not make sense to me.
Mr. Gaetz. But you proceed, but you proceed, and then later
this thing starts to get a lot uglier. What is the moment you
go from, OK, your Spidey senses are up, you are analyzing this,
to now you know this is a crime that you are bearing witness
to?
Mr. Bobulinski. The end of July when the Biden family put
them right front and center in the middle of a $9 billion
transaction between the Russian state-owned energy company,
Rosneft, and CEFC, a surrogate for the Chinese Communist Party.
Mr. Gaetz. And was there ever a time in the deals you were
involved in where you started to see the money move around the
legitimate business enterprise and toward the pockets of the
Bidens?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, the challenge, Mr. Gaetz, with that
is, at the time, they moved the money, right, you guys have the
text messages where Hunter Biden shook down Director Zhang, but
I was not aware of that. I spent a year asking questions of
this does not make sense to me. Where is the money?? I stepped
in and had lawyers work to dissolve the two entities. I did not
know until years later that they had defrauded me. They had
gotten paid all this money and all this craziness. The amount
of facts----
Mr. Gaetz. This seems pretty simple. This is either a bribe
or a business.
Mr. Bobulinski. It was a bribe from the Chinese Communist
Party.
Mr. Gaetz. And----
Mr. Bobulinski. And I do not say that lightly. There are
1,200 pages, 8 days of testimony in the Southern District of
New York. I encourage everyone watching me, hearing me say
this, they are publicly available, go read them. Our Department
of Justice outlines in intimate detail the corruption and
bribes that CEFC was deploying to political officials all over
the world.
Mr. Gaetz. It was not just the United States.
Mr. Bobulinski. So, I am here to believe that they did this
in every other country, but with the Biden family, it was
pristine. It was an actual clean business. That is absurd.
Mr. Gaetz. And you came to know that, and that is when you
blew the whistle, right? That is when you started to get
worried when you saw Joe Biden----
Mr. Bobulinski. I stepped away from it. The whistleblowers,
I cannot give them kudos enough for the bravery and the risks
they put their family in. They published stuff where I am
voicing the concern of the Rosneft deal.
Mr. Gaetz. And you animated your concerns when you saw that
this was not just a corrupt bribe, a corrupt business deal
happening to a guy who used to be a Vice President. Everyone
has made a big deal, like you are a bad guy, that you showed up
at the debate, or you are trying to give life to these facts
that you have observed, that it is so bad that you did that
during a political contest. But observing this, it kind of
seems like it would be unpatriotic for you to stay quiet.
Mr. Bobulinski. Of course.
Mr. Gaetz. And so, I mean, Joe Biden running for President
clearly motivated the Chinese to consummate this bribe. Did it
also motivate you?
Mr. Bobulinski. Well, I did not want to go public. I wanted
to simply unload all the facts, personal experiences. It is
funny there are 18 people on this Committee with law degrees,
including, I think, Mr. Swalwell. Evidence, firsthand testimony
is the most powerful evidence you have. I have given it. Mr.
Galanis has given it along with a whole host of other
witnesses. Then on top of that, I have thousands of documents
and pages of legals and stuff like that.
Mr. Gaetz. Well, that is what----
Mr. Bobulinski. I wanted to simply give this information--
--
Mr. Gaetz. Yes.
Mr. Bobulinski. [continuing]. To Congressman, Senators, and
let them do their job.
Mr. Gaetz. Well, that is the thing. No one questioned any
of your facts. No one brought a single piece of evidence that
even for a moment discredited any of the truthful testimony
that you have given us.
Mr. Bobulinski. No, they did not.
Mr. Gaetz. My time has expired. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. That concludes
our questioning. Again, I want to thank the witnesses. We are
going to close now, and I will yield to the Ranking Member for
a brief closing statement.
Mr. Raskin. Great, and I will take an extra 32 seconds as
Mr. Gaetz did. Well, and while we are on Mr. Gaetz, he seems to
be upset about a couple of different things. One was fraud,
which is fascinating to me, given that his hero, Donald Trump,
has just been convicted civilly of banking insurance fraud in
New York in a civil case, and now owes, I think it is $454
million, unless that has gone up with interest. I think he is
having a hard time making that, but I am sure that Mr. Gaetz's
constituents will help him out as they are shaking down
Republican voters. You can pay either for Donald Trump's
criminal lawyers or his civil lawyers. That is the big
political choice, I suppose.
He is also upset about China. Well, if you check out the
Democrats' report, ``White House For Sale: How Princes, Prime
Ministers, and Premiers Paid Off President Trump,'' you will
find that China actually gave more than $5 million to Donald
Trump while he was President of the United States in direct
violation of the Emoluments Clause, which says that nobody in
Federal office shall accept a present, an emolument, which
means a payment, an office or title of any kind whatever from a
king, a prince, or a foreign state. And we spent a day again
jawboning about Hunter Biden, who has never held public office,
and he has never done business with a government, and yet we
have right in front of us, in front of our very eyes, mammoth
corruption, unprecedented in U.S. history, by Donald Trump as
President. And my friends do not say a single word about it,
but he wants to lecture Mr. Parnas about the illegal donations
he made on behalf of Pro-Trump Super PACs.
I have noticed something interesting with the people who
have finally disenthralled themselves and gotten out of the
Trump cult, as Mr. Parnas puts it. People like Michael Cohen,
Sarah Matthews, Cassidy Hutchinson, Alyssa Griffin, there are
articles about them. There are dozens of those people, and I
would be fleeing for the exits now too. What is so fascinating
to me about it is that they do not mind when these people lie
for Donald Trump. Then when they get out and start telling the
truth, that is when they call them liars for what they did when
they worked for Donald Trump. Mr. Parnas, they are not mad that
you lied and went to prison for it and did your time. They are
mad that you stopped lying for Donald Trump.
Mr. Parnas. Absolutely, Congressman Raskin.
Mr. Raskin. So, when I was a state assistant attorney
general, Mr. Chairman, I saw a judge on my very first day of
work castigate a lawyer by saying, ``Son, you forgot the very
first rule of lawyering. When you go to court, you have got to
bring the evidence with you.'' You forgot to bring the
evidence. There is no evidence, hundreds of thousands of pages
of documents, dozens of hours of testimony, but not a shred of
evidence of Presidential wrongdoing, much less an impeachable
offense by President Biden. And you are making not just the
Majority a laughingstock, the whole Committee a laughingstock.
So, it is hurting us. My Members are saying when will they call
off this nonsense? So, here we are.
Again, Mr. Parnas, I want to thank you. You have explained
to America that the allegations at the very foundation of this
inquiry were predicated on Russian propaganda and
disinformation just as they were at the start of the hit job
that you and Rudy Giuliani were sent to do back in 2018 and
2019. And I want to thank you for showing America what real
intellectual honesty and personal honesty look like and how you
can grow out of the deranged Trump syndrome that so many of our
colleagues are still suffering from today.
It is time to call this investigation for what it is, Mr.
Chairman. It is not just an embarrassing failure and an
historic failure at that, but it is a historical betrayal of
democracy, freedom, the rule of law, as Vladimir Putin tramples
the freedoms and the democracy of people in Ukraine. We should
be spending our time standing up for democracy and not
tarnishing it with spectacles like this. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. I should have brought my waders from the
farm. I want to thank our witnesses for being here today. Mr.
Bobulinski, Mr. Galanis have delivered testimony in front of
the American people directly implicating President Biden and
his family's influence peddling schemes, schemes that brought
over $24 million into the Biden family and their business
associates' pockets. For what? I never heard the Minority say
what they did or what business the Bidens were in. Mr.
Bobulinski and Mr. Galanis have provided documents supporting
these claims and provided hours of testimony to this Committee.
Mr. Bobulinski and Mr. Galanis have not changed their stories.
Mr. Bobulinski and Mr. Galanis did not ask for this hearing,
but they showed up for it because they have nothing to hide.
I also invited Hunter Biden to this hearing, in part due to
his own request that he be allowed to provide transparency and
testimony before the American people, or at least he did
request this hearing, and then he sat for a deposition with the
Oversight and Judiciary Committees. Now he is nowhere to be
found. Mr. Bobulinski, Mr. Galanis, and others have implicated
Joe Biden in the Biden family business. Hunter Biden denies his
father's role in the Biden family business. This is a material
discrepancy among witnesses of the highest order. I attempted
to solve this problem by getting the witnesses in the same room
together to straighten out any misunderstandings.
It should be clear to the American people that Hunter
Biden's word is as valuable as the fake services he was
selling. And this Committee will not play games or belittle the
institution of Congress by allowing Hunter Biden to call the
shots about who he testifies with or when he does it. At this
point, the only person who can resolve this discrepancy about
Joe Biden's participation in his family's influence peddling
schemes is Joe Biden himself.
As I said at the beginning of this hearing, Joe Biden was
either used by his family over and over again and paraded in
front of his business partners to rake in millions of dollars,
or he knew exactly what he was doing to enrich his family. Joe
Biden was either complicit or incompetent, and the American
people deserve to know which one it is, which one it was, but
neither is acceptable for the leader of the United States.
I do not think anyone believes that this is acceptable
behavior for the family of the President of the United States
to receive tens of millions of dollars from our adversaries
around the world and they cannot say one single thing they did
to receive the money. Nobody supports that. I do not care if
you are Democrat or Republican, if you are from a big city or a
small town. That is not what this democracy is about. That is
not what the founding fathers set up. They set this up that we
have public servants come and provide their public service and
then go on. They did not set this up for public servants to
enrich themselves through their family, through influence
peddling.
Has anyone denied, Mr. Raskin, that the Biden family was
influenced peddling? Nobody denies that the family was
influence peddling. What we have here is a major discrepancy on
what role Joe Biden played. We know the three former Biden
associates say that Joe Biden was actively involved and knew
full well what the schemes were, what the family was up to, but
we have Hunter Biden testifying under oath that his dad did not
know.
So, in the coming days, I will invite President Biden to
the Oversight Committee to provide his testimony and explain
why his family received tens of millions of dollars from
foreign companies with his assistance. We need to hear from the
President himself, and I assure the American people that they
will be able to evaluate for themselves the President's honesty
and fitness for the office he now holds. With that----
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, are you going to invite Donald
Trump to come and talk about his violations of the Emoluments
Clause?
Chairman Comer. You all have investigated Donald Trump for
years, and I am pretty sure I have read in the paper that there
are a lot of investigations of Donald Trump. No one has
investigated----
Mr. Raskin. But when we impeached him----
Chairman Comer [continuing]. Joe Biden----
Mr. Raskin [continuing]. You were invited to impeach Joe
Biden.
Chairman Comer. Are you going to work with me to see that
Joe Biden comes and answers these discrepancies? I mean, this
is a big deal.
Mr. Raskin. There are no discrepancies. There is nothing--
--
Chairman Comer. No discrepancies?
Mr. Raskin. No, there is no evidence at all that he has
committed any high crime and misdemeanor. What is it?
Chairman Comer. In closing, I want to thank our panelists
once again for their important and insightful testimony today.
With that, and without objection, all Members will have 5
legislative days within which to submit materials and to submit
additional written questions for the witnesses which will be
forwarded to the witnesses for their response.
If there is no further business, without objection, the
Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 5:49 p.m. the Committee was adjourned.]
[all]