[House Hearing, 118 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] LOWERING COSTS AND INCREASING ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE WITH EMPLOYER-DRIVEN INNOVATION ======================================================================= HEARING Before The SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EMPLOYMENT, LABOR, AND PENSIONS OF THE COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION __________ HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, JANUARY 11, 2024 __________ Serial No. 118-33 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and the Workforce [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available via: edworkforce.house.gov or www.govinfo.gov __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 56-309 PDF WASHINGTON : 2024 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina, Chairwoman JOE WILSON, South Carolina ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania Virginia, TIM WALBERG, Michigan Ranking Member GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin RAUL M. GRIJALVA, Arizona ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York JOE COURTNEY, Connecticut RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN, JIM BANKS, Indiana Northern Mariana Islands JAMES COMER, Kentucky FREDERICA S. WILSON, Florida LLOYD SMUCKER, Pennsylvania SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon BURGESS OWENS, Utah MARK TAKANO, California BOB GOOD, Virginia ALMA S. ADAMS, North Carolina LISA McCLAIN, Michigan MARK DeSAULNIER, California MARY MILLER, Illinois DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey MICHELLE STEEL, California PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington RON ESTES, Kansas SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania JULIA LETLOW, Louisiana LUCY McBATH, Georgia KEVIN KILEY, California JAHANA HAYES, Connecticut AARON BEAN, Florida ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota ERIC BURLISON, Missouri HALEY M. STEVENS, Michigan NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, New Mexico JOHN JAMES, Michigan KATHY MANNING, North Carolina LORI CHAVEZ-DeREMER, Oregon FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana BRANDON WILLIAMS, New York JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York ERIN HOUCHIN, Indiana Cyrus Artz, Staff Director Veronique Pluviose, Minority Staff Director ------ SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EMPLOYMENT, LABOR, AND PENSIONS BOB GOOD, Virginia, Chairman JOE WILSON, South Carolina MARK DeSAULNIER, California TIM WALBERG, Michigan Ranking Member RICK ALLEN, Georgia JOE COURTNEY, Connecticut JIM BANKS, Indiana DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey JAMES COMER, Kentucky SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania LLOYD SMUCKER, Pennsylvania FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana MICHELLE STEEL, California PRAMILA, JAYAPAL, Washington AARON BEAN, Florida LUCY McBATH, Georgia ERIC BURLISON, Missouri JAHANA HAYES, Connecticut LORI CHAVEZ-DeREMER, Oregon ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota ERIN HOUCHIN, Indiana KATHY MANNING, North Carolina C O N T E N T S ---------- Page Hearing held on January 11, 2024................................. 1 OPENING STATEMENTS Good, Hon. Bob, Chairman, Subcommittee on Health, Employment, Labor, and Pensions........................................ 1 Prepared statement of.................................... 4 DeSaulnier, Hon. Mark, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Health, Employment, Labor, and Pensions.................... 7 Prepared statement of.................................... 9 WITNESSES Beehler, Michele, Senior Director of Health and Wellbeing, Schweitzer Engineering Labs (SEL).......................... 11 Prepared statement of.................................... 14 Josh, Laura, General Manager, California Schools VEBA........ 18 Prepared statement of.................................... 20 Ducas, Andrea, Vice President of Health Policy, Center for American Progress.......................................... 34 Prepared statement of.................................... 36 Whaley, Dr. Christopher M., Health Economist, RAND Corporation................................................ 48 Prepared statement of.................................... 50 ADDITIONAL SUBMISSIONS Ranking Member DeSaulnier: Letter dated January 10, 2024 from California Public Employees' Retirement System........................... 80 Letter dated January 11, 2024 from the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees.... 82 Testimony dated January 23, 2024 from Marilyn Bartlett... 108 Chavez-DeRemer, Hon. Lori, a Representative in Congress from the State of Oregon: Statement dated January 11, 2024 from Lori Chavez-DeRemer 112 Courtney, Hon. Joe, a Representative in Congress from the State of Connecticut: Article dated January 10, 2024 from The Hill............. 65 Foxx, Hon. Virginia, a Representative in Congress from the State of North Carolina: Statement dated January 11, 2024 from Transcarent........ 85 Letter dated January 10, 2024 from ATA Action............ 91 Statement dated January 11, 2024 from ERIC............... 92 Statement dated January 11, 2024 from Purchaser Business Group on Health........................................ 96 Letter dated January 10, 2024 from Partnership to Advance Virtual Care........................................... 105 Statement dated January 25, 2024 from Business Group on Health................................................. 113 Testimony dated January 11, 2024 from Health Rosetta..... 118 Testimony dated January 11, 2024 from VerSan Consulting, LLC.................................................... 121 Letter dated January 11, 2024 from Parkview Health....... 125 Letter dated January 24, 2024 from Corporate Health Care Coalition.............................................. 129 QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD Responses to questions submitted for the record by: Dr. Christopher Whaley................................... 133 LOWERING COSTS AND INCREASING ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE WITH EMPLOYER-DRIVEN INNOVATION ---------- Thursday, January 11, 2024 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Health, Employment, Labor, and Pensions, Committee on Education and the Workforce, Washington, DC. The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:17 a.m., 2175 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Bob Good [Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding. Present: Representatives Good, Walberg, Allen, Burlison, Chavez-DeRemer, Houchin, Foxx, DeSaulnier, Courtney, Norcross, Wild, Hayes, Manning, and Scott. Staff present: Cyrus Artz, Staff Director; Nick Barley, Deputy Communications Director; Mindy Barry, General Counsel; Jackson Berryman, Speechwriter; Michael Davis, Legislative Assistant; Isabel Foster, Press Assistant; Daniel Fuenzalida, Staff Assistant; Sheila Havenner, Director of Information Technology; Taylor Hittle, Professional Staff Member; Andrew Kuzy, Press Assistant; Georgie Littlefair, Clerk; CJ Mahler, Professional Staff Member; John Martin, Deputy Director of Workforce Policy/Counsel; Hannah Matesic, Deputy Staff Director; Audra McGeorge, Communications Director; Rebecca Powell, Staff Assistant; Seth Waugh, Director of Workforce Policy; Maura Williams, Director of Operations; Nekea Brown, Minority Director of Operations; Ilana Brunner, Minority General Counsel; David Foster, Minority Senior Health and Labor Counsel; Carrie Hughes, Minority Director of Health & Human Services Policy; Suyoung Kwon, Minority AAAS Fellow; Stephanie Lalle, Minority Communications Director; Raiyana Malone, Minority Press Secretary; Olivia McDonald, Minority Staff Assistant; Kota Mizutani, Minority Deputy Communications Director; Veronique Pluviose, Minority Staff Director; Dhrtvan Sherman, Minority Committee Research Assistant; Nick Schiach, Minority Legal Intern; Jamar Tolbert, Minority Intern; Adrianna Toma, Minority Intern; Banyon Vassar, Minority IT Administrator. Chairman Good. The Subcommittee on Health, Employment, Labor, and Pensions will come to order. I note that a quorum is present, and without objection, the Chair is authorized to call a recess at any time. President Ronald Reagan once said the nine most terrifying words in the English language are I am from the government, and I am here to help. The government often causes more harm than it does good, and that is particularly true when it comes to healthcare. Thankfully, America is filled with innovators and problem solvers, and today we will hear from some of those leaders on these important topics of lowering prices for quality healthcare. The cost of healthcare is one of the greatest challenges our country faces. Last year healthcare spending reached four and a half trillion dollars, costing over $13,000.00 per American citizen. Meanwhile, Medicare is set to become insolvent by 2031. In 2023, Federal subsidies for healthcare insurance are estimated to be 1.8 trillion, or 7 percent of our GDP, our gross domestic product. This has led to premiums drastically increasing for commercial insurance. The other side does not seem to understand that when the government subsidizes something, it actually becomes more expensive. It merely shifts the costs from the patient to the taxpayer. In my district in Campbell County, Virginia, premiums for a family plan have increased 81 percent, or $9,000.00 over the last decade. So much for the claim that premiums will go down with the Affordable Care Act. The Biden administration's plan is to increase spending, and impose more mandates, which will only result in more inflated healthcare prices, further bankrupting our country. Today we are going to learn from innovators in the business world who are delivering savings to workers through lower healthcare costs, while still providing timely access and quality care. Employers not only have a strong incentive to deliver high-quality benefits to retain their employees, but they also have a legal, fiduciary obligation to do so. Unsurprisingly, 67 percent of Americans are satisfied with their employer-sponsored care, but sadly the system is rigged against employers who want to pursue value-based models. It takes time and resources for healthcare innovators to overcome the significant economic and regulatory barriers in place across the country. We can learn a lot from the witnesses here today, as well as from other innovators who are working to overcome these barriers and teach employers how to use innovative models as well. In 2012, Walmart, the largest private employer in the world, launched its Center of Excellence, or COE program, which directs patients to specific sites and providers for specialty care. Since the launch of Walmart's COE program for spine surgery, Walmart has found that patients who underwent surgery at a COE, had a shorter hospital stay, and drastically lowered readmission rates and that patients returned to work sooner than non-COE patients. For the 2017 benefits year, it has estimated that Walmart, Lowes, and McKesson saved 19.4 million through their spine and joint surgery programs. Schweitzer Engineering Lab, which is represented here today, saved nearly 2 million dollars in 2023 by participating in innovative models. California VEBA, or VEBA, is also represented here today, and has drastically slowed premium growth in its plans, and its beneficiaries have reported a 94 percent satisfaction rating. The Boeing Company also engages in direct contracts with doctors and health systems, effectively bypassing insurance companies. One study found that patient cost sharing decreased expenses per procedure by $498.00 for orthopedic and surgical procedures when using the direct contract model. However, many barriers still exist, which make it especially difficult for small and mid-size employers to use these models. One barrier is a lack of data. Employers often struggle to access their own health plan and spending data from their third-party administrator. Without this information employers and providers are unable to adequately design innovative payment methods and assess quality and savings. Another barrier is the overzealous State regulators, who threatened to prohibit or over-regulate payment models that allow provider risk sharing, even when the payment is between a self-funded ERISA plan and a provider. Some states even try to regulate these self-funded ERISA plans as insurance carriers. Furthermore, inconsistent quality measurement standards pose a challenge in the healthcare market. The lack of reasonably established costs and quality benchmarks can be a challenge for employers, providers, and third-party administrators. These barriers often translate into administrative burdens, costing time, money, and personnel to navigate and overcome. These are administrative burdens that many small and mid- size companies do not have the resources to cover. One solution would be to allow employers to take advantage of economies of scale by permitting them to join together in one direct contract with a provider. Another solution could be to strengthen data sharing requirements, as this Committee has done in the provisions included in the House-passed Lower Cost More Transparency Act. The Federal Government could also clarify that ERISA self- funded plans can participate in innovative payment models without being targeted by overzealous State regulators. These are just a few of the ways to address barriers employers face today. Our witnesses will speak more about the different challenges and solutions that Congress can consider when providing space for our healthcare innovators and business owners. I look forward to today's discussion and seeking ways to create more pathways for lower cost, high-quality and innovative healthcare, and with that, I yield to the Ranking Member for his opening statement. [The prepared statement of Chairman Good follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome back everyone to this committee in the Congress. I hope you had a wonderful holiday break, Mr. Chairman, and everyone. While I am interested in hearing from the witnesses today about the work that some employers are doing to foster innovation, as I have often said, I am agnostic in some regards to health care, well in many regards as a consumer, unfortunately, of health care in the last few years as a survivor of cancer and 4 weeks on a ventilator. I see the inefficiencies in our current system personally and professionally. I also think that when you look around the world, holding Walmart up, Mr. Chairman with all due respect, as sort of a model, I cannot disagree with more--what paradise on earth, we all could be Walmart employees as a former small business owner who had to deal with them. There is a mixed market and the rest of the industrialized world either has, like the British, a full public system of health care, or a mixed, like the Japanese and the Germans, and so if we can show some place that actually works with a complete free market, I would be interested in seeing how that works and perhaps somebody could enlighten me today to that model. 14 years ago, President Obama signed into the law the Affordable Care Act, an innovative, that seems to be the word of the day, piece of legislation that has reduced the universal, the uninsured rate, to the lowest level in American history. Before the ACA, by law insurance could deny people with health care coverage because of pre-existing conditions, including pregnancy, substance abuse disorder, and even cancer. Insurance, insurers, could also charge a woman more than men for health insurance. What was once considered an out of reach privilege for many Americans has turned into more than 20 million consumers projected to sign up for the coverage during this year's open enrollment period, a dramatic increase over last year's record enrollment. congressional Democrats and the Biden-Harris administration continue to build on the ACA and have made historic strides toward patching remaining loopholes in our health care system and expanding high quality healthcare coverage for Americans. Quality insurance for health is very important, not just cost. In 2021, congressional Democrats passed the American Rescue Plan, which enhanced the ACA tax credits to lower monthly costs for low-income individuals, and eliminated the subsidy cliff, so that more low-and moderate-income individuals could get coverage. In 2022, congressional Democrats passed the Inflation Reduction Act. This historic legislation extended the premium tax credit enhancements, capped the cost of insulin for people with Medicare, and, for the first time, directed the Federal Government to negotiate lower prices for prescription drugs covered by Medicare. Democrats have demonstrated that innovation, there goes that word again, provides relief to workers and families from the burden of excessive health care costs. Unfortunately, many of the bills proposed by my friends on the other side during the current Congress, would undermine in my estimation, affordability, and quality of care, and ultimately make it harder to access quality coverage. For example, expanding association health plans might provide lower premiums for some enrollees, but it would increase costs for other consumers in the traditional insurance market, while adding nothing to address the underlying price of healthcare. That is a bad deal for American workers and for small business. The idea of scale for small businesses is one that I would appreciate exploring more, but the devil is in the details. I have heard many of my colleagues call to repeal the drug price negotiation program outlined in the Inflation Reduction Act. Repealing this program would reverse the hundreds of dollars in savings on out-of-pocket costs that those in Medicare have benefited from. Similarly, I am concerned that everyday Americans are increasingly being pushed to adopt unregulated, low-quality junk health care plans. These plans often discriminate against people with preexisting conditions, like myself, do not cover essential health benefits, and raise costs throughout the health care system. Instead of encouraging counterintuitive policies, we should work together in good faith, recognize our differences in approach, to focus on expanding quality health coverage for all Americans, workers, families, employers, and their employees. Together we can strengthen the Affordable Care Act to expand access to quality health care by lowering prescription drug costs for all Americans. Last July, House Democrats introduced the Lowering Drug Costs for American Families Act to rein in pharmaceutical price gouging and reduce prescription costs for Americans with private health insurance, including those covered by employer-sponsored health plans. It is also worth noting that similar legislation passed by House Democrats during the 116th and 117th Congress would have slashed premiums and cost-sharing for privately insured individuals by as much as $53.8 billion, save American businesses $43.1 billion, and raise worker's wages by $116 billion. In short, when employers save more, employees take home more. This is good for everyone, including the American economy as they have more disposable income to spend. This is the innovation we should strive for. With that, I want to thank you again, thank the witnesses, and look forward to the discussion. [The prepared statement of Ranking Member DeSaulnier follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Good. Thank you, Ranking Member. Pursuant to Committee Rule 8(c), all members who wish to insert written statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the Committee Clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5 p.m., 14 days after the date of this hearing, which is January 24, 2024. Without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 14 days to allow for such statements, and other extraneous materials referenced during the hearing to be submitted for the official hearing record. I will now turn to the introduction of our distinguished witnesses. Our first witness is Ms. Michele Beehler, who is a Senior Director of Health and Well-being for Schweitzer Engineering Laboratories, or SEL, which is located in Pullman, Washington. Welcome. Our second witness is Ms. Laura Josh, who is a General Manager of California School VEBA, which is located in San Diego, California. Welcome. Our third witness is Ms. Andrea Ducas. Andrea or Andrea? Andrea, Andrea, who is the Vice President of Health Policy at the Center for American Progress, which is located in Washington, DC. Welcome. Our final witness is Dr. Christopher Whaley, who is the Health Economist at the RAND Corporation, and is located in Providence, Rhode Island. We thank all of our witnesses for being here today. I look forward to your testimony. Pursuant to Committee rules, I would ask that you each limit your oral presentation to a 5-minute summary of your written statement. I would also like to remind the witnesses to be aware of their responsibility to provide accurate information to this Subcommittee. I first recognize Ms. Beehler for 5 minutes. STATEMENT OF MRS. MICHELE BEEHLER, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF HEALTH AND WELLBEING, SCHWEITZER ENGINEERING LABORATORIES, PULLMAN, WASHINGTON. Mrs. Beehler. Chair Good, Ranking Member DeSaulnier, and members of the Subcommittee, thank you for holding this important hearing. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I am Michele Beehler. I am the Senior Director of Health and Wellbeing at Schweitzer Engineering Laboratories, SEL. SEL was founded by Dr. Edmund Schweitzer over 40 years ago in the basement of his home in Pullman, Washington. We are a proud 100 percent employee-owned American company, researching, designing, and manufacturing right here in the U.S. At SEL we specialize in creating digital products and systems that protect, control, and automate power systems here at home and in 170 countries around the world. We make power outages safer and shorter in duration. We add cybersecurity, automation, and communication to critical, electrical infrastructure. We have over 6,500 employee owners worldwide, nearly 10,000 covered lives in our U.S. healthcare system, and we have a presence in 37 states around the country. At SEL we are rooted in a seat of values that we call our principles of operation. These principles guide us, and in the words of Dr. Schweitzer, they help us to run our business the way our mothers would want us to. Central to these principles are the ideas of ownership and community. When it comes to healthcare, we believe we should own our claims data, and we can make the best and informed decisions, and meet our fiduciary responsibility to our employees and their families. We strive to empower employee- owners to take ownership of pricing and quality information to make the right choices for themselves and their families. We believe in strong community partnerships, especially with our local hospitals to take ownership, and work toward lower cost and higher quality care. This drive for ownership inspired SEL to start our own health clinics over 10 years ago to serve employee owners and their families. SEL now has two health clinics in the United States, and in 2023 these clinics completed over 20,000 patient visits. Our medical staff includes a doctor, nurse practitioners, nurses, physical therapists, mental health professionals, and a pharmacist. We provide convenient access to high-quality, comprehensive primary care services at no out-of-pocket cost to our patients. We deliver high-quality and patient centric care with virtually no wait time, and at similar or lower costs than other clinics. We have removed barriers when it comes to seeking care--with a simple walk across the parking lot, our employee owners can see their healthcare provider. We are proud of our work, and support in the mental health space as well. We offer in-house counselors, a robust employee assistance program, and free virtual counseling services for all employees and their families. We are excited about the continued growth of our pharmacy program, which has consistently delivered savings, while improving patient care. SEL has a physician dispensing pharmacy with medications such as anti-biotics, and dosage starting drugs. We counsel our patients on drug interactions, and help patients review their prescriptions to look for ways to serve on lower cost options, like generic drugs. Recently, by working with just 25 individuals to help them identify low-cost sources for their medications, we will likely reduce our annual pharmacy care spend by 25 percent. Let me share with the Committee just one example of the positive impact your policies are having on individuals. Recently, we worked with an employee-owner taking a drug that cost nearly $10,000.00 per month, with an out-of-pocket cost of nearly $3,000.00 per month for them. Sadly, the employee was taking on mounds of credit card debt and struggling to pay for basic needs like groceries and utilities, just to pay for this medication. In utilizing our in-house pharmacist, we identified a generic equivalent on Mark Cuban's Cost Plus pharmacy for $12.80 a month, saving the employee nearly $36,000.00 a year in out of pocket expenses, and saving SEL an additional $84,000.00, for a total savings of $120,000.00. That is the power of transparency. In addition to improving our healthcare and benefits offerings within SEL, we also began to work with external partners, like our local hospitals and providers, through direct contracting. On the policy front, the No Surprises Act, specifically Section 201, has been tremendously helpful, providing us with critical access to claims. This law, along with others, has given us more valuable and useful information about the market, equipping us with the right tools to find the price that is both fair and reasonable for SEL, and the provider as well. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify today. [The prepared statement of Mrs. Beehler follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Good. Thank you, Mrs. Beehler, and I would now like to recognize Ms. Josh for 5 minutes for your opening statement. STATEMENT OF MS. LAURA JOSH, GENERAL MANAGER, CALIFORNIA SCHOOL VEBA, SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA Ms. Josh. Chairman Good, Ranking Member DeSaulnier, and distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. My name is Laura Josh. I am the General Manager of California School's VEBA. VEBA was founded in 1993 through the combined efforts of school superintendents and representatives of the California Teachers Association, and the California School Employees Association, to combat rising healthcare costs in Southern California. Since then, we have grown to more than 70 participating public sector employers, including four of the top ten largest school districts in California, as well as the County of San Diego, with more than 150,000 covered members in our plan. We are now the fourth largest purchaser of healthcare in the State of California. VEBA strives to leverage our collective purchasing power to keep health premiums low and ensure access to comprehensive benefits designed to keep employees physically and mentally healthy. As a 501(c)(9) nonprofit healthcare trust, all funds are spent on member benefits and health improvement, and we are governed by a board that represents both labor and management. As fiduciaries, at the heart of every decision we make is our members, which are our teachers, our custodians, our transportation workers, and other staff who have dedicated their professional lives to educating future generations. We strive for the highest quality benefits at the lowest possible cost to keep more in each worker's paycheck, and drive as many tax dollars as possible to student education. This is our motivation to innovate and keep costs low. VEBA consistently beats national averages with annual aggregate premium increases around just 4 to 5 percent. Additionally, as a recent member survey, VEBA delivered a 94 percent member satisfaction rating. The trust and satisfaction that we built over the past three decades has enabled us to think more about the long-term cost drivers of healthcare in a more creative and personalized manner. In order to drive innovation that will reduce healthcare costs, four critical things are needed. First, transparency. True transparency enables you to know where every dollar is going and ensure that it is fully utilized. This is one of the primary reasons VEBA is working to remove regulatory barriers to direct contracting in California, and we are the first to participate in a groundbreaking pilot that directly contracts with health systems using risk bearing contracts. Transparency also helps us ensure incentives are aligned across the healthcare industry, so providers, payers and purchasers are all singularly aligned on improving population health, and treating each patient holistically, meeting both their physical and mental health needs. Second, competition. We need robust competition in the healthcare market to drive down costs. Having visibility into our contracts through the direct contracting pilot will facilitate this competition, drive more effective cost structures, allow for greater innovation, and give the consumer more visibility into their care options. Third, market power. While we have seen significant consolidation in the healthcare industry, many purchasers remain fragmented in trying to negotiate on their own. Policies that allow purchasers to come together and navigate the market jointly will help drive down costs. Finally, removing barriers to innovation. VEBA worked closely with State regulators to enable our direct contracting pilot, but barriers still exist that prevent us from further partnering with small businesses or enabling the organizations in other states to benefit from these important, direct contracting models. At VEBA we have successfully fought the rising costs in healthcare through innovative patient-focused care, and quality programs. VEBA and other purchasers can achieve quality care at lower cost and build on our success if Congress takes the following actions. First, remove barriers to employer participation in value-based programs, such as high-performance networks, and direct contracting. Next, increase transparency into healthcare claims and in counter data, along with information on costs and quality for healthcare providers. Next, ease Federal and State restrictions on pooling with appropriate protections for small employer groups to bring the VEBA value to other employers. Finally, invest in our pipeline of critical mental health workers and other healthcare professionals. I look forward to discussing with the Committee how we can work together to bring more patient centered innovation to the employer marketplace using direct contracting, improving transparency, leveraging group purchasing, and cementing a commitment to cost reduction while improving the health of our members. I look forward to your questions. [The prepared statement of Ms. Josh follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Good. Thank you, Ms. Josh. Now I recognize Ms. Ducas for 5 minutes for your opening testimony. STATEMENT OF MS. ANDREA DUCAS, VICE PRESIDENT, HEALTH POLICY, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS, WASHINGTON, D.C. Ms. Ducas. Thank you to the subcommittee for your attention to this critical issue. I will begin by acknowledging the squeeze employers are facing when it comes to providing affordable coverage. This phenomenon is not new. I know it well from my time working at a small nonprofit back in 2009, before the ACA. We had around 50 employees, the vast majority of whom were women, and several of whom had kids or were pregnant in the past year. It was close to impossible to keep premiums manageable. I knew health care, so I was asked to help find a solution, and what we wound up with even then was an exclusive provider product with no out-of-network coverage. I applaud the employers who are doing what they can to bring costs down on their own, while trying to do right by their employees. Some of the innovations being discussed today can even be successful for the businesses who invest the considerable time and resources developing them. Unsurprisingly though, only small numbers do. There are limits to success considering the headwinds of health care consolidation and high prices. Employers, instead of being responsible for bending the cost curve, should be able to focus on their core business. I am passionate about health policy, and I would have liked nothing more 15 years ago than to focus on my day job, which brings me to today. Today's ESI products are significantly better than they were back when we were negotiating with our broker, thanks to the ACA. At that time people were subject to preexisting condition exclusions, coverage limits, cost sharing for preventive services, and many other challenges that the ACA eliminated. When people lost their jobs, they also did not have the ACA marketplaces to fall back on, and thanks to ARPA and the IRA, the enhanced premium tax credits made that coverage even more affordable. The difference cannot be more pronounced. As I acknowledge, however, it is difficult for employers to affordably provide that coverage. Premiums, which have been growing faster than inflation and wages over the last 25 years at least, are now close to $9,000.00 for a person, or $24,000.00 for a family. Perhaps even more troubling is the increase out-of-pocket expenses employees are responsible for as employers, by shifting costs onto them in the form of higher deductibles. As a result, about 30 percent of workers are considered underinsured. This stubborn cost growth is primarily a function of high prices. From 2017 to 1921, prices for health care services grew at almost double the rate of utilization, and those prices are primarily driven by two things. Consolidation, which in particular drives up hospital prices, and exorbitant prescription drug prices. Employers understand this, and they want relief. Close to 90 percent of surveyed business leaders believe there should be a greater government role in providing coverage and containing costs. They believe, correctly I might argue, that a bigger government role would be better for their businesses, and for their employees. 90 percent of business leaders want to see more government intervention to increase transparency. We agree, and strongly recommend congressional action to establish a Federal All-Payer Claims Data base, or APCD, which could make health care claims data available across payers and enable employers of all sizes to make informed choices about which providers to contract with, also encouraging providers to lower their costs. More than 90 percent of those leaders want greater action against anticompetitive behavior. That makes sense, considering how problematic health care consolidation is becoming. Consolidation can increase the price of hospital stays by as much as 54 percent. Consolidation within the insurance market is also rapidly increasing, as is consolidation across entity types. It may surprise you to know that United Health Group now purportedly owns or is affiliated with 10 percent of all physicians in the United States. That is 90,000 doctors, 20,000 of whom were acquired, or affiliated with United within the last year alone. While largely outside of the scope of the subcommittee, we strongly encourage congressional action for more expansive monitoring of this kind of behavior. To help lower drug prices, Congress can also build on the historic Medicare prescription drug pricing reforms established through the Inflation Reduction Act, and bring innovation, such as the Medicare drug price negotiation program, and inflation rebates to the commercial market, as the Lowering Drug Costs for American Families Act would do. These innovations are estimated to save the Medicare program billions of dollars. There is also bipartisan interest in lowering drug prices by closing the loopholes that are regularly exploited by pharmaceutical companies, like patent system abuses and stalling tactics to keep generics from entering the market. We implore Congress to pass legislation to do that. We also encourage congressional action on bipartisan proposals to regulate pharmacy benefit managers that profit when drug prices are set as high as possible. I highlight a number of those opportunities in my written testimony and appreciate the subcommittee's engagement on this issue. Finally, Congress can consider bolder reforms, for example exploring the introduction of an employer public option as an alternative to current ESI offerings. Congress has the ability to provide relief employers want and need to help ESI's become more sustainable and affordable for the years to come. Thank you again. [The prepared statement of Ms. Ducas follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Good. Thank you, Ms. Ducas. Now we will recognize our final witness, Dr. Whaley, for 5 minutes for your opening statement please. STATEMENT OF DR. CHRISTOPHER WHALEY, HEALTH ECONOMIST, RAND CORPORATION, PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND Mr. Whaley. Thank you. Chairman Good, Ranking Member DeSaulnier, and members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Christopher Whaley. I am a Healthcare Economist at the nonprofit, nonpartisan RAND Corporation, as well as an Associate Professor of Healthcare Policy at the Brown University School of Public Health. My research in general focuses on healthcare price transparency, the impacts of evolving healthcare market structures, importantly the role of employers who purchase healthcare benefits, and many innovations that employers are doing as purchasers of healthcare. Employers play a significant role in the United States healthcare system. Employers provide health insurance coverage for over 150 million people, the largest source of insurance in the United States. Employers also importantly select many of the plant offerings employees select from, thus determining the types of insurance that most Americans have. Collectively, U.S. employers contribute about 1.2 trillion dollars toward healthcare spending, and thus play an important role in financing the U.S. healthcare system. Because healthcare benefits are financed from wages, employers have both a legal and a moral obligation to be responsible fiduciaries when they are purchasing healthcare benefits on behalf of their workforce. Unfortunately, many employers face challenges fulfilling this obligation. Many employers are unable to access their planned claims data, limiting their ability to audit and negotiate, or audit prices and negotiate on their behalf, as well as prudently designed plan offerings. Employers often face volatility in provider markets with limited access to lower price, high-quality providers, due in large part to decades of consolidation among providers and plans, it has driven down competition. Prices paid by employers are often high and variable, with little to no link between price and quality. However, a handful of employers have used benefit design innovations to reduce spending and improve access to high- quality care. These programs typically use price utilization and quality data to identify efficient providers that deliver high-quality care at lower prices, and in design incentive programs to direct members to these providers. A particularly innovative example actually comes from Purdue University, which has used data on local provider prices and quality to contract directly with high value providers and incentivize their use. These types of so-called direct contracting plans are often accompanied further by negotiation of price discounts because providers gain member volume. Due in part to these programs, Purdue has not had employer premium increases in 5 years and has saved approximately 200 million dollars. Likewise, General Motors direct contract program with the Henry Ford system in Michigan reduced healthcare spending by an estimated 15 percent. Other examples include reference-based pricing, which tie reimbursement rates to benchmark rates, and it has also led to considerable savings. For example, the referencing pricing program implemented by the State of Oregon, has reduced spending by about 100 million dollars for Oregon teachers and public employees. Due to reference pricing savings, the State of Montana employee plan had no deductible or premium increases for several years. Anecdotally, my father was a member of this plan and certainly benefited from having his pay increase come in the form of take-home dollars, and not healthcare dollars. A critical component for an employer's ability to innovate and implement these types of programs is the use of transparent data on differences in provider price and equality. Unfortunately, several self-funded employers who want access to the plan's claim data, for monitoring purposes, have actually had to file lawsuits to gain access to this type of data. Additionally, access to hospital-insured posted price transparency data required by Federal regulations, that allow employers to comparison shop across providers and plans without placing additional burdens on their members, have not been widely useful. This type of data, if further expanded, would allow employers to benchmark their own prices against market rates. In conclusion, whether they like it or not, U.S. employers are in the healthcare business. To be responsible fiduciaries of their member's money, employers need to use data to ensure their healthcare benefits deliver high-quality care at reasonable prices. Federal policy can strengthen employer access to their own claims data and improve compliance and useability of Federal transparency policies and data. I am happy to answer any questions and thank you for the opportunity. [The prepared statement of Dr. Whaley follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Good. Thank you, Dr. Whaley. Under Committee Rule 9, we will now question witnesses under the 5-minute rule. I will wait to ask my questions, and therefore I will recognize Mr. Walberg from Michigan for 5 minutes. Mr. Walberg. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to the panel for being here. A very, very, important subject we are dealing with today. Ms. Josh, it is my understanding that California Schools VEBA operates as an association health plan. Last year House Republicans passed my legislation codifying the Trump administration's 2018 rule to expand association health plans. How would expanding AHPs help reduce overall healthcare spending among employers? Ms. Josh. Thank you, Congressman, for that important question. VEBA operates similar to an association health plan, not exactly as an association health plan, but I think the concept of increased market power is incredibly powerful. Within VEBA, we have employers that have more than 15,000 employees down to our smallest employer that is a single room schoolhouse with only three employees in the mountains of San Diego. What I think is most valuable about pooled purchasing is that every employee, no matter which employer they participate at, receives the high quality and lower costs of the broader pool. We are also able to expand benefits and being able to add additional services like enhanced mental health, enhanced cancer screenings, expert second opinions. It would be unaffordable or unreachable for small groups outside of the pool. Mr. Walberg. I appreciate that. That leads me to the second question. The Biden administration recently proposed a rule to repeal the Trump administration's rule. Their statement as to the reason why they wanted to repeal associated health plans as implemented by Trump is that AHPs are skinny plans. You just mentioned some significant benefits that come in your plans for your people. Is the Biden administration's characterization correct, specifically does California Schools need to skimp on coverage for its enrollees? Ms. Josh. California Schools VEBA is incredibly proud of the coverage that we offer for our employees. Almost none of our employees have deductibles in their plans. They have a $10.00 copay. Our view on healthcare has always been, if it is unaffordable for the family to use it, the healthcare coverage itself is practically useless, so we are very proud that we have kept the quality very, very high. I compare it to--my husband works for a small employer. My out-of-pocket maximum for my family under my plan is only $6,000.00 a year. His option at the small employer's, $13,000.00 a year. We are able to offer significantly enhanced benefits relative to what small employers are able to access. Mr. Walberg. I would assume the next issue would be positive for what you have experienced. I would assume AHPs, or similar are effective at reducing healthcare costs without skimping on coverage? Ms. Josh. I believe with appropriate protections and regulations group purchasing can be a very powerful tool in producing market power for purchasers. Mr. Walberg. Thank you. Thank you. Dr. Whaley, in your written testimony you highlight that a ``plan and price data are critical to health benefit innovation.'' In addition to access to data, are there other barriers that limit the ability of employers to implement direct contracting or similar programs? Mr. Whaley. Quite frankly, I think access to data is the No. 1 hurdle, and without knowing what your own prices are, what prices are in your market, it is really impossible for employers to design these types of programs. Second, I think where there is a will on behalf of employers to act as responsible fiduciaries and recognize that healthcare is a huge component of their business, and respond prudently, and respond in the business focus fashion. Mr. Walberg. What could Congress do to eliminate these barriers? Mr. Whaley. I think codifying that employers have access to their own claims data if they are self-funded as a regular employer, it would be critical and have access in a timely manner. Second, I think expanding access to transparency and coverage policies, and making sure that a hospital-posted data is accurate and timely, and ensure posted data is widely useable. Mr. Walberg. I will jump quickly here, not much time left. How does the use of telehealth in these models differ from telehealth use in traditional fee for service care? Mr. Whaley. What we have seen in published research studies that were conducted is that providers that are paid in a non- fee for service setting, where getting patients in the door is the most profitable source of revenue, actually tend to use telehealth more than providers that are paid in a capitated or value-based manner. Mr. Walberg. Good to know. Mr. Whaley. Sorry, the opposite direction. Mr. Walberg. Yes. Good to know. Thank you. I yield back. Chairman Good. Thank you, Mr. Walberg. I would now like to recognize Ms. Wild from Pennsylvania for 5 minutes. Ms. Wild. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here for this important hearing. It is a subject I have long been concerned about, even though I feel as though we have made a lot of progress over the last few years, health care costs are still too high for too many Americans. Ms. Ducas, and am I saying that, pronounced okay, I was very proud last Congress to support the Inflation Reduction Act, which was signed into law in August22, which as I think everyone knows, dramatically lowers the cost of prescription drugs for seniors on Medicare, and slashes premiums for people who purchased coverage under the Affordable Care Act, and of course caps insulin prices for millions of Americans. As I said initially, we have not done enough yet, and the work must go on to lower these health care costs, particularly I think for the millions of people who are covered through employer-sponsored plans, and my biggest concern are items that are not covered in those employer-sponsored plans, including some preventive cares. We know that a majority of Americans receive their health coverage through a job-based plan, and we need to make sure that their health care needs are being met. Can you give us an example of some of the basic preventive services that are not covered through many employer-sponsored plans? Ms. Ducas. Thank you for the question. As you mentioned, the Affordable Care Act had a provision that required the coverage of essential health benefits which applied to the group market. Ms. Wild. Can you speak up just a tiny bit? Ms. Ducas. Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you for the question. As you mentioned, the Affordable Care Act had a provision that required the coverage of essential health benefits. What I would share, which include things like colorectal screening, annual preventive service visits, but what I would share is that there are many states who are able to regulate insurance within their states, that pass laws that require even more comprehensive coverage of different services. Some examples might be, you know, assisted reproductive technologies help. Ms. Wild. You said assisted reproductive technologies? Ms. Ducas. Yes. Thinking about--like IVF, but many, many plans are self-insured plans that are subject to ERISA, and therefore not necessarily subject to those enhanced regulations that require even more access to services. Ms. Wild. Right. Ms. Ducas. There are a number of services that are not in the essential health benefits, that would be especially prudent for people to incorporate into more employer sponsored plans, but I am happy to followup. Ms. Wild. There are a lot of variances, you are saying? Ms. Ducas. There are a lot of variances, yes. Ms. Wild. Depending on the State and the employer and the nature of the plan. Ms. Ducas. That is exactly right. Ms. Wild. Okay. I would like to turn to you, Dr. Whaley, there is I think a growing bipartisan recognition that we do not have enough information about costs and the health care system. In your testimony you identify an important issue, which is the lack of transparency from companies that contract with employer-sponsored health plans to administer their benefits, including pharmacy benefit managers and insurance companies that serve as third-party administrators. Can you share with us some of the challenges that plans face when they are trying to get cost information from their PBMs, or their third-party administrators, and as part of that answer, could you address what the impact is on health care costs? Mr. Whaley. Yes. Some self-funded plans when they as for their claims data, either for their own use or an entity directed by the self-funded plan to use the claims data, have faced challenges in actually accessing that data, so some large insurers or third-party administrators often argue that negotiated prices and network design contained in claims data are trade secrets, and thus the employer, even though they are the one that is paying the bill does not have access to that type of data. I think not having that type of access to data does not allow the employer to essentially monitor what's going on under the hood and audit the prices that are being negotiated on behalf of themselves, and more importantly, their workers. I think having access to that type of data can greatly allow employers to innovate and address prices. Ms. Wild. Would you agree with me that as a capitalist society, competition is important, and that without data on pricing it is very hard for a consumer, whether it is a health care plan, employer, whatever, to make sure that they are getting the benefit of competition? Mr. Whaley. That is correct. Ms. Wild. Thank you. Mr. Whaley. If we are going to have a system, we need data and competition. Ms. Wild. Thank you so much. Chairman Good. Thank you, Ms. Wild. I would like to recognize myself now for 5 minutes. Ms. Josh, we have heard today already about the negative impact of consolidation in the healthcare market and its affect on healthcare prices. How would allowing employers, multiple employers, to pool together to use one type of payment model help bring more competition to market, and lower prices? Ms. Josh. Thank you for that question, Congressman. I think one of the things that we see is consolidation with the healthcare purchasers, and the providers of healthcare whereas individual consumers we have seen very fragmented, and trying to negotiate against these behemoths on our own. By pooling together the purchasing powers of employers, we start to have the power of volume in negotiation. When we talk about market power, part of where you really get that market power is being able to go to a local hospital system, and tell them you represent 10, 20, 30,000 of their members to get more effective pricing, to get more access to your data, to drive better primary prevention. The more in different markets healthcare consumers can come together to purchase together, the more market power you are going to have against that consolidation, which will ultimately create greater competition. Chairman Good. Thank you. What other barriers need to be lifted to ensure further access to voluntary employees, beneficiary association plans, and similar employers pooling? Ms. Josh. There are various requirements around it. One of the existing requirements for VEBA is the type of employer that can participate. We have had many small employers approach us wanting to join and access these benefits, but based on the VEBA regulations they cannot. There are also various State regulations across the country that require--that will actually look through an association to the underlying size of the employers. We would really be looking for a clear definition of the areas of pre-emption for a purchasing group to be able to act as that single purchasing entity to consolidate that market power. Chairman Good. Very good. Thank you. Dr. Whaley, your research has identified provider consolidation as one of the main drivers of healthcare costs. How would encouraging the uptake of risk base and other payment models help address the consolidated healthcare market? Mr. Whaley. One of the things we have seen through especially referenced based pricing and direct contracting is that this is a model that allows for lower priced, high-quality providers to essentially gain volume and gain patient revenue through offering more competitive prices, and being a more efficient provider. If you are an independent provider who is efficient, then these types of models actually allow you to remain independent and promote more competition. Chairman Good. Very good, thank you. In your written testimony you also noted that large employers like General Motors and Purdue University have created savings through direct contracts with high value providers. What barriers do smaller employers face in entering into similar contracts? Mr. Whaley. Again, in some sense the main barrier to these types of models is not the size of the employer, but the ability and innovation or desire to innovate and recognize that they are fiduciaries for their employees. I think for smaller employers it is often hard to have the market volume within a given market to essentially corral your market power and to form these types of direct contracts, and especially negotiate better prices. I think other plans that allow employers to essentially form co-ops or come together can help address that limitation. Chairman Good. Very good, thank you. I would like to go to Ms. Josh. We have heard today, I am sorry, I am going to go to--actually I am going to go to Ms. Beehler. You talked in your testimony about the transparency coverage regulation that has helped you to get data that you need, but you still have data access issues with claims administrators. Can you explain why it matters for employers to have access to data? Ms. Beehler. Thank you for the question. It is very important for employers to have access and transparency to that data. Without it we are unable to recognize and see what is happening on our plan. When we received our claims data after 18 months of trying to get it, we were able to find trends, find opportunities and gaps in our plan, buy in areas in which we can go and direct contract directly with providers to negotiate better pricing, as well as follow through to make sure that our employees and our family members are getting the best prices and the highest quality. Chairman Good. How about from the patient's standpoint? How does it help the patients to have access to data? Why does it matter for them? Ms. Beehler. We partner both with educating our employees, as well with all that we are learning from our aggregate data, as well as providing tools to them such as healthcare blue book, so that they can part and pair both quality ratings, as well as price to make the best decisions for them and their family, which directly impacts their out-of-pocket costs. Chairman Good. Very good. Thank you so much. I would now like to recognize Mr. Norcross from New Jersey for 5 minutes. Mr. Norcross. Thank you, Chairman, and to the Ranking Member for holding this hearing, and it feels like we are just scratching the top grains of sand in a beach dealing with this, but as we all know it has to start somewhere, and I appreciate bringing this up. Now we all know that access to health care is much more than just that, particularly after coming through the pandemic when so many of the mental health issues reared its ugly head, not to of the least, which is the disease of addiction, which has decimated and literally killed over 85,000 people a year, but that all now gets lumped into this. I hear from each of the testimoneys a variation of how, not only trying to save money, but expand services. The very nature of expanding services costs money, whether it is efficient or not. If we go back 20 years the idea of what we are spending on mental health as compared to today is just dramatically different, and it adds, just as pharmaceuticals do, adds to the top line. Back in 2008 I believe it was, the Parity Act was passed, which indicates to the insurance companies that you have to treat mental health the same way you treat your physical health. One of the issues with that is there is no upfront enforcement of how we deal with that. Ms. Ducas, I just want to talk to you. We have introduced a bill in the past couple sessions called About the Parity Enforcement Act, which instead of where the incentive is now for an insurance company if they are caught, and I use the term caught, not providing the proper mental health, their penalty is oh, you will have to pay it afterwards. The fact of the matter is, great, we did not lose anything because we would have had to pay it. By being able to give the Department of Labor the ability not only to investigate, but to levy fines up front on these issues, hopefully that will expand mental health services, and certainly when we look at the parity from health care, 85,000 people alone dying in just that one sliver called addiction. Will this make a difference? You are fighting increasing access to services, but we are saving lives. Can you touch base on the complexity of that? Ms. Ducas. Yes, and thank you for the question. I really appreciate it. You highlight a very significant issue, and I would argue gap in coverage, behavioral and mental health services are very, very difficult for people to access, even with very good insurance. Anecdotally, you know, many friends, family members, and colleagues find it very challenging to use even their employer sponsored insurance to find an in-network therapist, or behavioral health counselor. We know that only two out of three firms say that there are enough mental health providers in their networks that they offer to their enrollees, and 21 percent of firms, large firms that offer behavioral health benefits, have limits on those services. There are many complex reasons for this. I think a lot of behavioral health providers are largely incentivized not to contract with insurance because they are paid less than other types of physical health providers. As a result, people often have to go out of network to be able to access either a therapist, a psychiatrist, you know, what have you. I think having stronger parity enforcement laws are going to be critical, so that the onus is not on the employee or the consumer reporting that they cannot access services to then trigger an investigation into the insurance provider. Yes, the short answer to your question is yes. It would make a difference. Mr. Norcross. Thank you. Dr. Whaley, could you expand on this because gaining more access to lifesaving, and I am focusing more on the disease of addiction is increasing cost to the plan, but in the long term many people will suggest this saves the plan money by giving you earlier access. You are not going into more physical health care issues. Can you touch base on sort of the two main issues we are dealing with? Mr. Whaley. Yes. There are probably many areas in health care where we have inefficient spending, so if you're trying to get say a knee replacement and one provider charges $150,000.00 and the other charges $30,000.00, that's a huge increase in spending with little to no quality improvement. There are other areas where we have inefficient underspending, where we should actually probably spend more and devote more resources. It does include things like primary care, and I think importantly mental health and addiction services. Mr. Norcross. Thank you. I yield back. Chairman Good. Thank you, Mr. Norcross. I would now like to recognize Ms. Chavez-DeRemer of Oregon for 5 minutes. Mrs. Chavez-DeRemer. Thank you, Chairman Good, for holding this important hearing today, and thank you to the witnesses for being here. Central to the issue of high-quality and affordable health plans is transparency. To make the best decision, small business owners need to better access what goes into those costs they are being asked to pay. Small businesses have enough on their plate. They should not have to play games with anyone to get the full picture on the cost of health plans they are offering their employees. I have been proud to lead the bipartisan Health Data Act, alongside Congressman Takano and Congresswoman Manning, which is common sense solution to make it easier for employers to choose affordable healthcare options. It would strengthen the ability of plan sponsors to access data from TPAs. Such reforms would make it easier for employers to leverage their own data when designing innovative payment models. Some PBMs and third-party administrators are using loopholes to circumvent current law by one, limiting the number of claims an employer can audit. Two, limiting the number of audits an employer can conduct. Three, demanding the audit be conducted by their own company. Four, hiding indirect compensation received by the service provider for its role in administering a plan. Five, and demanding that the audit take place on the service provider's premises. The Health Data Act would close those loopholes. All of us were excited last month to see it pass the House as part of the Lower Costs More Transparency Act. Ms. Josh, you have highlighted that increased transparency from pharmacy benefit managers would allow employers to better track their drug spending and make sure their payments are being used well, squarely focused on care for their employees. Could you expand on how the Lower Costs More Transparency Act would help employers reduce those drug costs? Ms. Josh. I thank you, Congresswoman, for that important question, and I applaud you on the work that you are doing. I think transparency is an incredibly critical issue here. One of the ways we have really been able to use transparency is understanding both our costs, as well as partnering it with quality data from the Office of the Patient Advocate in the State of California to be able to understand the value of the providers that we are seeing. We think it is really important that you pair both cost and quality together to understand value so that we are able to encourage our members and create opportunities for our members to select the highest value providers. Using that data we actually created a tiered network that had lower patient costs and premiums for network one, where you chose the highest value providers. If you were going to network three, where the costs were 180 percent of the rest of the county average, you actually paid 30 percent more in your premiums, and you paid three times more at the time of the cost of service. Without access to our data that would have been impossible. In our very first year it saved our participating employers more than 50 million dollars, and delivered higher quality to the members, and delivered great member satisfaction. Mrs. Chavez-DeRemer. Great. Thank you. Dr. Whaley, I had a question for you, but you have answered it. You are good to go. I will not make you say it again, so I am going to go on to Mrs. Beehler. Given your experience in developing innovative healthcare models for employees, are there other policies Congress should consider to promote employer innovation and transparency in healthcare? Mrs. Beehler. Thank you for that important question. Essentially any policies that can expand access to transparency of our data, and in a timely manner, will help employers be able to use that information to share with their employees, educate their employees, and make sure that they have information they need to make good decisions for themselves and their families. Mrs. Chavez-DeRemer. For Congress, certainty oftentimes is what you all ask us for, right? To lay the pathway. In the healthcare industry on the personal side, I can tell you this. If we are going to offer affordable healthcare, and we are going to have the providers provide for that transparency is key, which is what this hearing is about, so thank you for being here today, and I truly appreciate the time that you have given us today. With that, Mr. Chair, I yield back. Chairman Good. Thank you. We would now like to recognize Mr. Courtney for 5 minutes. Mr. Courtney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and before I begin my remarks, I would ask for unanimous consent to introduce an article which was in the Hill yesterday, Obamacare Enrollment Breaks Record for Third Consecutive Year, which again documents the fact that they have now exceeded 20 million enrollees in qualified health plans, which is 8 million higher than when President Biden took office 4 years ago. Obviously, the more generous tax credits, which does reach some employees of the smallest of small businesses, is providing obviously a real medical home and insurance home. Chairman Good. Without objection, and you are now recognized for 5 minutes. [The information of Mr. Courtney follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6309.043 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6309.044 Mr. Courtney. Thank you. I would just like to followup with Ms. Ducas, the question about prescription drugs and the impact that it is having on employer health plans. Again, the State of Connecticut Insurance Department just increased premiums this year, and they noted the fact that as a percentage of premium dollar from like even just 10 years ago, it has gone from 10 percent of premium dollar to over 20 percent, and it is headed right toward 30 percent of premium dollars. Again, the Inflation Reduction Act, which again has now put into place a mechanism for negotiating lower prices for prescription drug, the first tranche of ten medications is now actively under consideration. There is a bill in Congress, H.R. 4895, the Lowering Drug Costs for American Families Act, which would extend that mechanism to small businesses, to private health plans, to working age Americans outside of Medicare. That obviously would be a very beneficial impact, but just again if you could talk about that a little bit because you mentioned it in your written testimony. Ms. Ducas. Yes, sure I would be happy to, and thank you for the question. As you mentioned, the prescription drug price negotiation, and the inflation rebates in the Inflation Reduction Act are tremendous savings vehicles for the Medicare program. With respect to extending those into the commercial market, one of the analyses for a similar bill, H.R. 3 found that extending drug price negotiations into the commercial market would increase Federal revenues by $45 billion over 10 years, as a result of decreased subsidies provided by the Federal Government. It would be a significant savings driver, yes. Mr. Courtney. Great, thank you. Ms. Josh, I read your testimony very closely. Again, it is a really impressive program that is happening out there in California. You know, you again alluded to the association health plans as a potential way to again, expand pooling and lower costs for drugs, but you did mention on page 14 that there has to be appropriate guardrails in that type of mechanism. Would one of those guardrails be that we at least make sure that essential health benefits, which a lot of blood, toil, and tears went into in terms of, you know, the implementation of the Affordable Care Act, to make sure that quality health plans are being sold, as opposed to what preceded the passage of the Affordable Care Act. Ms. Josh. Thank you for that important question. California Schools VEBA has been really committed to making sure we have high quality benefits. I think one of the keys of that in the appropriate protections is that the members of our board are fiduciaries to the individual members, so they have a legal obligation to ensure that they are delivering high quality value to the members under which they cover. We launched our direct contracting pilot that required legislation with the State of California to use a self-funded plan that could use risk-bearing contracts. One of the items within that bill was actually codifying the essential health benefits that would be offered under those direct contracts to ensure and codify that it continued to be high quality, and that the fiduciaries were delivering their value to their participants. Mr. Courtney. Well, thank you for that answer because again, you know, Mr. Walberg, who we have served together for a long time, and I really respect him, but his bill actually allowed for waiver of the essential health benefits in the legislation that, you know, that the other side has been pushing forward. To me that is a step backward, and that is where, as a former small employer, before I came to Congress. I mean I get it, you know, that people really by themselves, if you have got six or seven employees like I did, you know, you are helpless in the marketplace. Pooling is good, but the fact is that we, as you point out on page 14 of your testimony, if we are going to go that route, we have got to make sure that we are at least building in those safeguards and guardrails. I hope that point is well understood and documented in today's hearing because again, I think there is potential for bipartisan movement on that type of issue, but again, we cannot just walk away from protections for employees who are going to be patients at some point with these health plans, so that they are getting access to critical care, which was again identified through the essential health plan rulemaking that took place back in 2010. Again, I am running out of time, but really quickly, you mentioned that as a public option for employers, Ms. Ducas, as again is something that Congress should look at. Can you comment quickly? Ms. Ducas. Yes, sure. We will be releasing a report in the next few weeks outlining what the contours of that might look like, but essentially it would be an alternative that employers could offer, rather than their current ESI offerings. We outline a number of different designations for that. You would want to sort of have different tiers, preserve employee choice. You have government negotiations. Yes. Mr. Courtney. Thank you. More choice is good. Ms. Ducas. Sure, more choices. Mr. Courtney. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Burlison [Presiding.] Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Allen for 5 minutes. Mr. Allen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks for being with us today and sharing your expertise. Dr. Whaley, as of 2021, Southern Company, located in my home State of Georgia, it is the largest utility company in the U.S. in terms of customer base. It is large size has afforded it the ability to stay well below the national average in healthcare costs for the last 10 years, resulting in a cost avoidance of around 15 million annually. Major contributing factor to keeping healthcare costs low for their employees has been their capacity to implement innovative care models, such as muscular skeletal centers of excellence, direct contracting through hinge help for muscular skeletal, and onsite cancer screenings. Where unfortunately not all of employers have the ability, expertise, or the resources, particularly small businesses, to invest in innovative payment models. What types of employers have successfully implemented direct contracting or other innovative benefit designs, and what types of employers struggle to do so? Mr. Whaley. I think the importance is less on the size of the employer, but more so recognizing that they are fiduciaries, and taking that obligation seriously. It may be a challenge for smaller employers however, to design these programs, and to scale these programs if they do not have a sufficient number of patients. There are, I think, many entrepreneurs who are trying to fill this space, and essentially pool employer populations, and do a lot of that work on behalf of employers. Mr. Allen. What would be the impact for example in the Affordable Care Act that carved out two groups that got waivers and did not have to deal with the regulatory environment of the Obamacare law. That was the labor unions and faith-based organizations, which offer healthcare plans. If we were able to carve out, employer-based insurance, and plus under ERISA allow self-employed folks to participate, would that decrease costs substantially? Mr. Whaley. One example, a purchaser where you see lots of innovation actually comes from labor unions. For example, on the reference pricing program that I have studied in the context of the California Public Employees Retirement System, a lot of the impetus for designing that type of program actually came from labor because they recognized that a dollar in healthcare costs comes directly from a dollar in wages. Mr. Allen. Right. Well, our Nation spends twice as much of all the other countries average for healthcare, and the taxpayers of this country in Fiscal Year 202023 spent 1.6 trillion on healthcare. Obviously, the healthcare cost is the driver of our debt, which is now 24 trillion. We have got to come up with something to compete with government healthcare. There has to be two systems. We have seen employers figure this out. In other words, if you leave it, like Ms. Josh, if you leave it to the business community they are going to take care of their folks. The reason we have health insurance in the first place was because during World War II under wage and price controls, the only way you could compete for employees was benefits, and that is when healthcare was introduced. Josh, if you are given the freedom, in fact, Mr. Whaley before I leave you, do you know where the dollars are going in healthcare? Mr. Whaley. They go all over the place. To your question, you know, one thing that employers have learned is that it does not make sense to pay more for the exact same services that is done in one setting versus another. Mr. Allen. Yes. Mr. Whaley. For example, Safeway decided to pay for hospital, for laboratory tests done in independent settings, and Medicare and others could learn from those types of sites. Mr. Allen. Well, we are not going to reduce the costs of healthcare until we know where all the money is going. At least that is the way we do it in the business world. We take it apart, and we say okay, what can we do, and why is this costing so much money? All this started happening when the government got in the healthcare business, and the government owns the healthcare business today. Ms. Josh, I have got 12 seconds, do you have anything to add to that? Ms. Josh. I think just for small employers the more market power you can give them that they can come together, the more able they are going to be able to access these individuals. Mr. Allen. The only way to do that is association health plans. Ms. Josh. Or something similar. Mr. Allen. Give them the same waiver, so they do not have to fool with the government. Ms. Josh. That they could design their programs to meet the needs of their populations. Mr. Allen. Yes, exactly. Thank you, and I yield back. Mr. Burlison. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Mr. Scott for 5 minutes. Mr. Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Ducas, we have heard a lot about association plans. I just wanted to point out that one of the benefits of the ACA is that essentially everybody pays average. In an association plan you let a low- cost group to pull out, which essentially causes everybody else to pay more, and that is the fundamental problem with association plans. What happens when some groups can negotiate for lower prices. Do we see other people's prices go up as we do in association plans? Ms. Ducas. Thank you for the question. Not that I am aware of. In part, I think that has to do with transparency. It is often difficult for one employer or business to know that lower prices have been negotiated elsewhere when they have no access to that information. I would just underscore that you are correct in what you shared about association health plans, and note that there was an actuarial analysis that found that if the Trump administration's association health plans rules had been allowed to go into effect, the self-employed folks that would have left ACA regulated markets, would have been significantly healthier than those who stayed, and that would have caused premiums to go up for those who were not able to leave the marketplace. Mr. Scott. Well, if an association formed and found that prices would be higher than the ACA, nobody would buy it. Ms. Ducas. That is right. Mr. Scott. It would not work. The only ones that would work were those that could save money, pulling out healthier people. Everybody else on average, prices go up. Ms. Ducas. That is exactly right. Mr. Scott. There are other things we need to look out for, and that is if a large group can negotiate with a hospital for lower prices, it is one thing if they get lower prices. It is another thing if they are the only ones that can go to the hospital in terms of, and if you have a group of providers, if it is an exclusive group just for them, that could affect the availability for everybody else. Can you say a word about what happens when you have these different groups? I guess one would be that you cannot get enough people in your group to cover all the ailments your group may have, and so you are out-of-network. Ms. Ducas. Yes. There because I will parse that question in two different ways. One would be looking at the market power that some providers have in terms of when they are contracting and executing that market power. If they are the dominant player in a particular place, often they will use anticompetitive sort of contract terms that might say, hey, if you want to contract with me and send your employers, and release to me, you cannot send them to our competitor. If you want to send them to see some of our providers, you have to send them to see all of our providers, so there are a number of opportunities to address anticompetitive behavior on the part of very large providers, that's one piece. To your other point around purchasers executing contracts with these types of provider groups, it is very heavily reliant, I think, to do this successfully and having a very large number of enrollees that you can send there. If there is anything else that would be helpful to expand on, I am happy to do that. Mr. Scott. Okay. The most I have heard about the problem with essential benefits, again everybody is paying average, but if benefits become optional, then only those that actually need it will sign up for it. What would happen to maternal and child care obstetrical services if that became optional? Ms. Ducas. That is a very good question. We know that those are two very expensive services, and that association health plans are not required to cover essential health benefits, so I would leave that speculation in the air, but you know, I think if I were a plan and had a choice about what to cover, I would look to potentially offload expensive services. Mr. Scott. Well, everybody has to pay for a little bit for obstetrical care now. Only people in childbearing age that expect to have children and sign up for it and that would become not insurance. Ms. Ducas. Yes. Mr. Scott. Prepaid obstetrical care, and essentially paying the full value. Ms. Ducas. Yes. Mr. Scott. What did removal of the cliff do to the attractiveness of association plans? Ms. Ducas. Removal of the cliff was associated with many more people on the Affordable Care Act marketplaces qualifying for subsidies. We saw on average premiums go down about 20 percent for those folks who were on the marketplaces. Now, 80 percent of people in the marketplaces are able to access a plan for less than up to $10.00 a month. That obviously becomes a very attractive alternative when you know that those plans are comprehensive, and cover all of the benefits you're going to need. Mr. Scott. People could get benefits instead of losing them, about $100,000.00 for a family of four, almost $200,000.00. Ms. Ducas. Yes. Mr. Scott. Still getting help. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Burlison. The Chair now recognizes myself for 5 minutes. Ms. Beehler, I understand that to direct contracts and the centers of excellence come with they are encountering geographic barriers issues because really it is the logistics of having to create contracts with providers which ultimately means that they are generally to more specific areas. How do you recommend, or do you see any solutions to expand outside of these geographic areas? Mrs. Beehler. Thank you for the question. At SEL we have put a number of things in place on our plans to help reach geographical areas and expand services. First and foremost, our onsite health clinic providers are able to consult with any of our members across the country. They may not be able to prescribe or diagnose, but they certainly can provide their expertise and direct people in the right area. In addition, we do also---- Mr. Burlison. Is there something that you would like to see changed? Mrs. Beehler. Absolutely. Mr. Burlison. The providers of different states can prescribe, and can diagnose and treat? Mrs. Beehler. Provider reciprocity is a huge issue, and we feel it having our own providers. We saw expansion of this during the pandemic, in which many of those barriers came down from that. We have seen a lot of State pacts come in place that began to increase access, but the ability to do that much more than just regionally is very important and would provide more care to everyone. Mr. Burlison. Are there any private solutions of consolidating contracts with providers, so that it is easier for an employer to directly contract through a group of providers? Mrs. Beehler. Yes. Mr. Burlison. I mean we call these networks originally, but they have kind of--but are there any of those within the direct contracting model? Mrs. Beehler. Yes, so their DPCs, direct providers have begun to network together, so that you can access those networks, and patients can access those networks, and be able to be seen by providers that are licensed in the right area. Mr. Burlison. Thank you. Mr. Whaley, in your testimony you noted that the large employers like General Motors, Purdue University, they have saved healthcare dollars through using the direct contracts, specifically General Motors direct contract with Henry Ford Health has lowered its healthcare spending by 15 percent. Purdue has saved over 200 million dollars and has not had to raise the employee's premiums over the past 5 years. What, as we continue the discussion, what barriers do you see for direct contracting? Mr. Whaley. I think that one barrier that could easily be addressed is knowledge of both what your prices are now as an employer, so these organizations were actually able to get access to their data, and understand the prices that they were paying. Then I think, just as importantly, understand the prices across the market. Mr. Burlison. Mr. Whaley, you do not think that they understand what check they are writing? Mr. Whaley. For most, employer's healthcare is a black box in which they write a monthly check. Mr. Burlison. Right. Mr. Whaley. Have very little insight into the prices negotiated on their behalf. Mr. Burlison. Let me ask the question in a different way. I think what is ironic, we have talked about price transparency, but it is worth nothing if there is no choice available. Would you agree? Mr. Whaley. That is right. Mr. Burlison. We are talking about transparency in pricing, but I can think of most of the private sector that we do not have to pass laws to force transparency because they are competitive in their market, correct? We do not have to have a law in place that says that gas stations have to put their price in big, bold letters outside and on highways, but they do it, right? Mr. Whaley. That is correct. As I allude to in my remarks, both decades of both provider and plan consolidation. Mr. Burlison. I have got short time, but to me the answer, the reason is that there is so much competition. They have got a gas station across the street. In health insurance, how many carriers are there in the United States? Mr. Whaley. Well, there is a handful that dominate the market. Mr. Burlison. Five? Mr. Whaley. Roughly. Mr. Burlison. Five. The employer, while they can get all the transparency in the world, if you have only got five options available, what good is your transparency? Mr. Whaley. I think that is certainly correct, as well as on the provider side. Mr. Burlison. I would contend we are trying to get the cart before the horse. I think if you provide more choice, then transparency follows. That is my contention. Let me ask this. We were talking about a lot on the demand side. What about the supply side? Do you study, you know, other states, sort of State to State they have occupational licensing laws, certificate of need laws, things that ratchet down the availability of healthcare. Are there states that do a better job at that, and their prices are lower? Mr. Whaley. I think states without certificate need laws in general have more access and more choice, and lower prices. Mr. Burlison. Thank you. My time has expired. I now recognize Ms. Manning from North Carolina for 5 minutes. Ms. Manning. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to our witnesses for being here today to discuss this critically important issue. I was very proud to support the Inflation Reduction Act in the last Congress, which helped lower costs of prescription drugs for people on Medicare, by capping the cost of insulin, and for the first time allowing the Federal Government to start negotiating for lower prices for certain prescription drugs covered by Medicare. This was an important step, but it is not enough. I am proud to have introduced the Health Data Access Transparency and Affordability Act, with Representatives Chavez-DeRemer, and Representative Takano, which passed this Committee with bipartisan support because there is agreement that greater transparency will help employers and consumers make better health care choices. Mrs. Beehler, have you been able to use health care data that you have been able to access in administering your employer-sponsored group health plan to lower costs and improve quality? Mrs. Beehler. Yes, we have. We have had a number of examples both within pharmacy, as well as within our own, bringing in our own health care clinics, and being able to provide our service in-house, and direct contracting with local providers. In addition, in our communities, and where we know that there are huge price discrepancies. For instance, advanced imaging is an area, especially in rural communities, where we pay a much higher price than you would see in a non-rural community. Using that information, we were able to direct contract with our local hospital and in 1 year we will save over $200,000.00 in advanced imaging alone. Ms. Manning. Greater transparency is one avenue for helping employers and consumers reduce their health care costs. Ms. Ducas, as you pointed out in your testimony, despite the efforts that we have made with the ACA, the IRA, and hopefully we will make with increased transparency, prescription drug prices have nevertheless continued to rise. While this Committee has largely focused on PBM's anticompetitive practices, and how they increase costs for employers, it seemed to be a bit of a shell game that we were talking about at the last hearing. I think we should also be looking at other points along the pharmaceutical supply chain to lower costs, including the drug manufacturers. You have mentioned that other countries have lower costs for drugs, and in some cases better health outcomes than in the U.S. What are some of the tactics that peer nations are using to rein in drug prices beyond price negotiation with manufacturers? Ms. Ducas. I would say a key one is price negotiation and caps. I mean that is critical. Without that, there is little opportunity to bring pharmaceutical prices down. There is a lot of asymmetrical information when it comes to drug manufacturing, and there is also a lot of consolidation and, not consolidation, but concentration in the market of the suppliers of the materials that go into producing a drug, the manufacturers who produce the drugs that are invented, you know, by pharmaceutical companies. What I would point to is that the primary vehicle for success in other places is their ability to directly negotiate prices. Ms. Manning. In your testimony, you mentioned that one barrier to lowering costs of employer-sponsored health plans is certain anticompetitive contract terms that inhibit plan designs that could lower costs for consumers. These include all-or-nothing clauses, anti-tiering and anti-steering provisions, and other restrictions. If these contract provisions are harmful to workers and raise costs, why do employers or health care plans agree to them? Ms. Ducas. That is a great question and thank you for it. The primary reason is because of the outsized market power that the providers that are bringing these contract terms to the table have. If you are the one game in town, if you are the big name in town, it is a credible threat to be able to say that if you want a contract with us, you have to play by our rules. If you are not in the network that you are offering your employees, that is being offered to your employees, if the biggest hospital, or the biggest, most recognizable hospital in a particular place is out of your network, your employees are not going to be happy. Ms. Manning. What is the solution to that? Ms. Ducas. Greater regulation of anti-competitive behavior. Ms. Manning. Thank you. My time is about to expire. I yield back. Mrs. Foxx [Presiding.] Ms. Hayes, you are recognized for 5 minutes. Mrs. Hayes. Thank you. Health care costs in the United States are the highest in the world, accounting for 4.5 trillion in 2022. In my home State of Connecticut, we ranked 9th in the country for per person health care spending. Employer premiums in Connecticut are significantly higher than the national average. Individuals covered by private health insurance plans, including employer-sponsored plans, are billed at rates much higher than what Medicare, Medicaid, and other public programs pay for the very same services. Ms. Ducas, why is it so difficult for employers to reduce how much they pay for health care? Ms. Ducas. Thank you for the question. A large reason for that is not having sufficient market power to be able to push on that. You are correct that on average commercial insurers pay significantly more than Medicare for the same services. There can be pretty tremendous variation, one my co-witnesses has done a lot of research into this in more, in states with more competitive markets, you see less of a differential. To answer your question, when you are negotiating on behalf of a very large pool of individuals, as you are with the Medicare program, you can achieve greater economies of scale. Mrs. Hayes. What can we as policymakers do to lower the cost for Americans covered by private insurance? Ms. Ducas. I think one of the things that we could do is level the playing field between purchasers and providers, and as we have discussed there is heavy consolidation in the health care provider market, and also in the insurance market. One way to do that is to tamp down on that behavior, reduce the market power that those entities have, which tip the scales a little bit more in the favor of private purchasers. Then another issue, as I have mentioned, is prescription drug pricing. Doing more to regulate prescription drug price to bring those down, to make it more affordable for employers to be able to offer coverage, that covers those comprehensibly. Mrs. Hayes. Absolutely, and I think that this Committee and the Congress are uniquely positioned to do that, and not leave it up to employers to have to try to figure that out on their own. Ms. Ducas. Yes. Mrs. Hayes. I can tell you that House Democrats have been dedicated to addressing the health care crisis for over a decade, and as we have heard over, and I am sure you are aware of, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services announced yesterday that more than 20 million people have selected an ACA health insurance marketplace plan enrollment. I have seen the numbers in my State skyrocket. There is a record number of enrollments all around the country, so while there are still issues that we have to address, the plan is working. As you mentioned in your testimony, the ACA improved health care benefits and strengthened consumer protections for more than 178 million Americans and employer-sponsored insurances. Ms. Ducas, you also mentioned additional action to address the underlying drivers of health care cost growth. What are some of the most important consumer protections under the ACA that have made coverage more affordable, and how can we continue to buildupon that work today? Ms. Ducas. Thank you for the question. Some key ones, we are getting rid of annual and lifetime limits. Prior to the ACA, there were about 105 million people who were in plans that had lifetime limits, and 20,000 people hit those limits each year, so for those folks, the Affordable Care Act meant the difference between bankruptcy and financial solvency. I would say another key protection was also enabling dependents to stay on their parents plan up to the age of 26, which made affordable health coverage possible for a lot of young adults in this country. Also, the provision of essential health benefits was fairly key. I mean it is a night and day difference today. Mrs. Hayes. Yes. Ms. Ducas. In terms of what you are able to purchase either on your own, or through employer-sponsored insurance thanks to the ACA. Mrs. Hayes. Well, thank you. I appreciate that, and this is an ongoing debate. We have heard in the last week on everyone's platform a resurgence of conversations about the Affordable Care Act, and the benefits or lack thereof, the plans. As my grandmother would say, do not throw out the baby with the bath water. We have to figure out what works in the plan. Many of the things that you just said, and then improve upon the things that do not work, but I think it is a dangerous proposition to go back to a place where we are insuring less people and not more in the United States of America. With that I yield back, thank you. Mrs. Foxx. Thank you, Ms. Hayes. I now yield myself 5 minutes. Dr. Whaley, in your written testimony you descript your research as ``studying innovations that employers are making when they have access to price information.'' As you know, the House recently passed the Lower Cost More Transparency Act, which gives employers greater access to their own data to price information. How will this legislation benefit employers who are engaging in innovative payment models? Mr. Whaley. What we have seen so far is that it is really the frontier employers who have been able to get access to their own data. I think that is largely just because traditionally it has been such a herculean task to get access to data. I think expanding employer access to claims data, as well as having market comparisons through the transparent and coverage policies, will actually allow more employers to participate in these types of innovations. Mrs. Foxx. Thank you. Ms. Josh, I am very impressed by California's VEBA's ability to reduce costs for workers while maintaining robust access to high-quality benefits. Your written testimony states that VEBA faced challenges standing up its direct contracting model because of restrictions on the use of risk-bearing contracts in your State. Can you elaborate on the regulatory challenges you faced when implementing VEBA's direct contracting pilot programs? Ms. Josh. Thank you for the question, Chairwoman. It is one of the items that we think is critical when you look at innovation is aligning the incentives of the health systems and the provider groups with those of the purchasers. Really, at the end of the day, that is how are we both investing toward making the population healthier and ensuring they have the services that they need. One of our key tools is called capitation, which is a risk- bearing contract that allows the group to also take downside risk, as well as upside risk in the management of a population. In the State of California, if you are to direct contract, you can only do it on a fee-for-service basis. We were required to run special legislation to be able to get the ability to run a pilot to use capitation in direct contracts. Fortunately, it has been a 5-year journey. We have successfully enrolled members in that starting January 1st. For others to access it, both in California and outside of California, we would be looking, and hope for support in clarifying the ability to use those contracts on a direct basis. Mrs. Foxx. Thank you. Ms. Beehler, in your written testimony, describe challenges obtaining claims data and navigating the complexity of our healthcare system in creating new benefit designs. Could you elaborate on these challenges, and how they have affected your efforts to improve healthcare access and affordability? Ms. Beehler. Thank you for the question, Chairwoman. Our attempt to get claims data started years ago. Really, since the passing of the No Surprise Act were we able to make any traction, but still, at SEL we went through an arduous process that lasted over 18 months while we tried to get our claims data, both in discussions with our third-party administrator, as well as back and forth with data submissions that were not complete in nature. This should not be the norm. That should not be the expectation. Also, during this process we were informed by our TPA that we were the first one in our State that had asked for this level of data, and that also should not be the norm. Mrs. Foxx. Well, thank you very much. I am in a rare situation where I can yield back time. I now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. DeSaulnier. Mr. DeSaulnier. Madam Chair, I will take your time. Mrs. Foxx. Okay. Mr. DeSaulnier. No, no, I am only kidding. Thank you so much. Thank you all for being here. I cannot help but think of the possibilities that we have to work together on evidence- based research, Dr. Whaley, that you have been involved with that is bipartisan that improves life for consumers. I made a comment about innovation, being a member from San Francisco Bay area, and then dealt with innovation with tech industry. It was a wonderful thing until people whose vested interest was primarily return on investment for the investor, without a consideration for the consumer, and then innovation just became an excuse, in my view, for some of the down sides. Pardon me for that editorial comment. Ms. Ducas, maybe you could just briefly talk about some of the things that we could do based on what you have heard at this hearing with the Affordable Care Act right now to improve the quality of care. That balance between quality assurance and cost. Ms. Ducas. Sure. Thank you for the question. Well, I think we have heard a lot about the need for transparency, and for employers and others to be able to actually see how much they are spending on care, where their money is going. One of the things that I highlight in my testimony, would be to establish a Federal All-Payer Claims Data base, that would allow everyone to be able to see what their claims look like across payers, and would essentially be a place for both self-insured and fully insured employers to go, and to bring their data into as well. I think also looking to--we talked a bit about the enhanced premium tax credits. It would be great to see those made permanent, given the impact that they are having on the Affordable Care Act marketplaces. Then I think in addition to building on the ACA, Congress has a key opportunity to build on the IRA and the prescription drug pricing provisions and inflation rebates therein, sending those to the commercial market, and making those really powerful tools work for everyone in this country. Mr. DeSaulnier. Thanks. Ms. Josh, thank you for all your great work. As a Californian, albeit from Northern California, you have a unique partnership where you have CTA and administrators working together. The challenge--and you mentioned you avoid high deductible, that question is for you to elaborate on that, but also the quality assurance. Yesterday I got a call from a dear college friend who has literally a family practice he inherited from his father. He was telling me about how difficult it is for him as a primary care physician, where his clients will come in, they have health insurance, and then they spend hours, both staff and his patients, trying to get what they believe the insurance company is required to give them for prescriptions. Then they go out, and they give up and they pay out of pocket. How do you handle that in addition to high deductible? Ms. Josh. On the cost, like I said earlier, we have always believed that our members need to be able to afford to go to see the doctor. We cannot give them a health plan, and we are covering gardeners, bus drivers, lunchroom workers, who make $30-40,000 in California. It is important to keep the cost of coverage really effective for them. We drive that through high quality. One of the things that California is very, has a great advantage on, is the Office of the Patient Advocate, which is run through the State of California. It is an independent quality monitoring tool that we can use because we often see if someone has skin in the game, if it is a carrier or someone else determining the quality, you can get differing messages. What we really like in having that independent quality measure is that there is no incentive to drive business or membership one place. We really encourage access to that data, access to that quality information, to be more broadly available, because it has been very useful in California. Mr. DeSaulnier. I remember it well. As a former Chair of the Budget Subcommittee on Health Care in the State Senate. Mr. Whaley, you mentioned Safeway. I have a constituent who is a former CEO of Safeway, Steve Bird, talked to him many times about prevention. We had some difficulty with some of our friends and retail clerks over that, but can you talk a little bit about prevention, and to the degree you could include behavioral health, which was also a big issue for, those, contract negotiations. Mr. Whaley. As I mentioned earlier, there are probably many areas in health care where we spend too much and spend inefficiently, but at the same time, there are many areas such as prevention and particularly mental health and addiction services where we probably spend too little, and I think it's actually important for the health of employers and populations to actually spend more and devote resources to those services. Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I will gratefully now give you time back. I just gave you 3 seconds back, Madam Chair. Mrs. Foxx. Thank you. Mr. DeSaulnier. It is a biblical number. Mrs. Foxx. You do yours and I will do mine. Mr. DeSaulnier. For any newcomers, this is a comedy routine we have. We both think it is funny, I do not know if anyone else does. Thank you, Madam Chair, and again thank you for you, Chairman Good, and the witnesses. I think this could be a really productive hearing. It is in the best interests of American consumers. I am shocked that, in spite of everything, we are still at almost 18 percent of GDP in terms of percentage of GDP as health care costs, and we do not have the outcomes that would, in spite of everything that we have tried to do, as opposed to our global competitors, who I think the Japanese are the next closest, and it is 10 percent, and they have better outcomes. We can do things that extend people's lives in this country if we work together. Madam Chair, I would like you to ask unanimous consent to enter the following documents into the record. A letter from the California Public Employees Retirement System, and a letter from the American Federation of County, State, Municipal Employees. Mrs. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. DeSaulnier. I ask unanimous consent to submit the following letters into the record. From Transcarant, ATA Action, ERIC. Purchaser Business Group on Health, and the Partnership to Advance Virtual Care. Without objection, so ordered. Without objection on yours. [The information of Mr. DeSaulnier follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [The information of Mrs. Foxx follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. DeSaulnier. No. Unless you want me to continue to talk Madam Chair, I am happy to yield back. Mrs. Foxx. That is all right. Mr. DeSaulnier. I thought you would say that. Mrs. Foxx. Well, as you can tell Mr. DeSaulnier and I get along very well, and this is a very bipartisan issue and we have worked very hard in this Committee, and I am particularly proud as the Chair, and the Ranking Member has already left, but we have really worked closely on this issue. Now I will share my prepared remarks. Healthcare costs continue to be a major threat to employers, employees , and our economy. As premiums and healthcare spending continue to rise at unprecedented rates, innovative solutions are needed that will provide higher quality healthcare at more affordable prices. As we have learned today, businesses are the innovators who can solve these challenges, not government mandates. By investing in new payment models like direct contracts, high performance networks and centers of excellence, the employers our witnesses represent, have proved to be effective models for a new future in healthcare. Despite their successes, we know that there remain barriers for innovation in healthcare. Access to data, overzealous State regulators, oppressive bureaucracy, administrative burdens, and accurately measuring performance remain challenges employers face in improving their health plans for their employees. We cannot afford to keep the status quo. It is our job in Congress to help expand innovative options broadly across the country. Congress can clarify ERISA's pre- emption to help insulate employers from overbearing State regulations. Congress can establish meaningful cost and quality benchmarks to help employers maximize their plans values, and Congress can build off of the great work of the Education and Workforce Committee to strengthen healthcare price transparency and codify the transparency and coverage rule in the law. I look forward to working with members of this Committee to tackle these challenges. Again, I thank the witnesses for participating in today's hearing, and I yield back. There being no further business to come before the Committee, the Subcommittee, we stand adjourned. [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [Whereupon, at 12:01 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] [all]