[Joint House and Senate Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                      S. Hrg. 118-62

                 OVERSIGHT OF THE CAPITOL POLICE BOARD

=======================================================================

                             JOINT HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                 COMMITTEE ON RULES AND ADMINISTRATION
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                               AND THE
                               
                   COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS


                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             JULY 26, 2023

                               __________

    Printed for the use of the Committee on Rules and Administration
    
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    


                  Available via http://www.govinfo.gov
                               
                               __________

                                
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
53-099                     WASHINGTON : 2023                    
          
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                 COMMITTEE ON RULES AND ADMINISTRATION

                  AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota, Chairwoman
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California         DEB FISCHER, Nebraska
CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York         MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky
MARK R. WARNER, Virginia             TED CRUZ, Texas
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West 
ALEX PADILLA, California                 Virginia
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  ROGER WICKER, Mississippi
MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado          CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 BILL HAGERTY, Tennessee
                                     KATIE BOYD BRITT, Alabama

                    Elizabeth Peluso, Staff Director
                Jackie Barber, Republican Staff Director



                   COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION

                    BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin, Chairman
BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia            JOE MORELLE, New York
H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia         TERRI A. SEWELL, Alabama
GREG MURPHY, North Carolina          DEREK KILMER, Washington
STEPHIANIE BICE, Oklahoma            NORMA TORRES, California
MIKE CAREY, Ohio
ANTHONY D'ESPOSITO, New York
LAUREL LEE, Florida

[[Page (iii)]]



                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                  Pages

                          Opening Statements:

Hon. Amy Klobuchar, Chairwoman, a United States Senator from the 
  State of Minnesota.............................................     1
Rep. Bryan Steil, Chairman, a United States Representative from 
  the State of Wisconsin.........................................     3
Hon. Deb Fischer, a United States Senator from the State of 
  Nebraska.......................................................     4
Rep. Joe Morelle, a United States Representative from the State 
  of New York....................................................     5
Hon. Karen H. Gibson, Sergeant At Arms and Doorkeeper of the 
  Senate, United States Senate, Washington DC....................     8
Hon. William McFarland, Acting Sergeant At Arms, United States 
  House of Representatives, Washington, DC.......................    10
Chere Rexroat, Acting Architect of the Capitol, Architect of the 
  Capitol, Washington DC.........................................    12
J. Thomas Manger, Chief of Police, United States Capitol Police, 
  Washington DC..................................................    13

                         Prepared Statement of:

Hon. Karen H. Gibson, Sergeant At Arms and Doorkeeper of the 
  Senate, United States Senate, Washington DC....................    42
Hon. William McFarland, Acting Sergeant At Arms, United States 
  House of Representatives, Washington, DC.......................    60
Chere Rexroat, Acting Architect of the Capitol, Architect of the 
  Capitol, Washington DC.........................................    64
J. Thomas Manger, Chief of Police, United States Capitol Police, 
  Washington DC..................................................    66

                            For the Record:

Klobuchar--DPEF--Capitol Alert Report............................    71
Steil--Chair of Capitol Police letter............................   128
Bice--GAO Report 17-112--Capitol Police Board....................   130
Loudermilk--Bulletin--Capitol Police Board Order 21.04...........   131
Loudermilk--Testimony of Paul Irving--February, 23, 2021.........   132
Morelle--Interview of General William J. Walker--December 31, 
  2021...........................................................   136
Morelle--Interview of General William J. Walker--April 21, 2022..   283
Morelle--Interview of Sean Gallagher--January 11, 2022...........   372
Morelle--Interview of Yogananda Pittman--January 13, 2022........   479
Morelle--Interview of Paul Irving--March 4, 2022.................   557
Morelle--Interview of Steven Andrew Sund--April 20, 2022.........   615
Morelle--Appendix 2--Final Report of the DC National Guard 
  Preparation for and Response to January 6th....................   810
Morelle--Associated Press--Pelosi Did Not Block the National 
  Guard from the Capitol on January 6th..........................   856
Morelle--Washington Post--The False GOP Claim That Pelosi Turned 
  Down the National Guard Before January 6th Attack..............   861
Morelle--New York Times--Republicans Are Blaming Nancy Pelosi for 
  the January 6th Attack, Their Claims Don't Add Up..............   867
Morelle--CNN--Fact Checking Representative Jordan's Claim That 
  Speaker Nancy Pelosi Was Responsible for United States Capitol 
  Security and January 6th.......................................   869

[[Page iv]]

                 Questions Submitted for the Record to:

Hon. Karen H. Gibson, Sergeant At Arms and Doorkeeper of the 
  Senate, United States Senate, Washington DC....................   875
Hon. William McFarland, Acting Sergeant At Arms, United States 
  House of Representatives, Washington, DC.......................   890
Chere Rexroat, Acting Architect of the Capitol, Architect of the 
  Capitol, Washington DC.........................................   894
J. Thomas Manger, Chief of Police, United States Capitol Police, 
  Washington DC..................................................   897
The Capitol Police Board.........................................   991

[[Page (1)]]




 
                 OVERSIGHT OF THE CAPITOL POLICE BOARD

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, JULY 26, 2023

                              United States Senate,
                  Committee on Rules and Administration and
                    United States House of Representatives,
                         Committee on House Administration,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:30 p.m., in 
Room G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Amy Klobuchar, 
Chairwoman of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Klobuchar, Fischer, Ossoff, Bennet, 
Welch, Cruz, Capito, and Britt.
    Representatives Present: Representatives Steil, Morelle, 
Loudermilk, Griffith, Murphy, Bice, D'Esposito, Lee, and 
Torres.

  OPENING STATEMENT OF HONORABLE AMY KLOBUCHAR, CHAIRWOMAN, A 
       UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF MINNESOTA

    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Good afternoon. I call to order this 
joint hearing of the Senate Rules and House Administration 
Committees on Oversight of the Capitol Police Board. I would 
like to start by thanking Ranking Member Fischer in the Senate 
and Chairman Steil. We planned this hearing together, I even 
wore my red suit to show how bipartisan this hearing is going 
to be. As well as Ranking Member Morelle, who I have been glad 
to work with, all of the Members, to plan this really important 
hearing to discuss the security of our Nation's Capitol.
    I would like to thank our colleagues for being here, as 
well as our witnesses, the members of the Capitol Police Board, 
who we will introduce shortly, Senate Sergeant at Arms, Karen 
Gibson; Acting House Sergeant at Arms, William McFarland; 
Acting Architect of the Capitol, Chere Rexroat; and Capitol 
Police Chief, Thomas Manger.
    I would also like to acknowledge that this week marks 25 
years since the shooting of Capitol Police officer Jacob 
Chestnut and Detective John Gibson, who were killed while 
bravely defending the Capitol on July 24, 1998.
    It is a sobering reminder of the importance of the work of 
the Capitol Police and that they stand with us. The Capitol 
Police Board is tasked with the critical work of overseeing and 
supporting the Capitol Police and coordinating the security 
efforts of your agencies to protect the Capitol and all those 
who work and visit here.

[[Page 2]]

    This hearing is an opportunity to discuss the progress that 
has been made in recent years and the work that lies ahead. The 
members of the Board have strived to make needed improvement in 
the past few years since we had a major bipartisan--I know the 
House also conducted security hearings, but in the Senate with 
Senator Blunt and I at the time, as well as Senator Portman and 
Senator Peters--conducted a review of Capitol security.
    Similar work, again, at the House. Out of that came a 
number of suggestions and the legislation that provided for 
this hearing--which I understand is the first joint hearing, is 
this right Chairman, since like 1945 or something--Came out of 
that report as one of the recommendations. Significant progress 
has been made to implement our ten recommendations for the 
entities charged with protecting the Capitol.
    The majority have been put into effect. We have worked very 
well between the House and the Senate as well. Critically, the 
Board has worked closely with the Department to improve the 
handling of intelligence, prioritize operational planning, and 
ensure officers have training and equipment.
    We remain focused on how we can best support our officers 
who continue to stand every day. They do not just greet us, 
they protect us. In the past few years, these men and women 
have worked significant overtime and had vacations canceled 
while work has been ongoing to get the Department back to full 
strength. We owe it to our officers and the work that they have 
done.
    I would like to recognize the head of the Capitol Police 
Union who is also with us back there. He is so shy and 
retiring. In the second row, Gus Papathanasiou--I just like 
calling him Gus, who is here today and who has been a 
consistent and strong advocate on behalf of the rank and file 
members of the Department.
    I would note that Chief Manger, as the Chief of this 
Department, has hired 280 officers last year and is staying on 
track to keep with his hiring goals this year, which we truly 
appreciate. General Gibson, I want to acknowledge the efforts 
you led to improve how the Board functions. I also want to note 
the work that we are doing together, the Chairman and I, and 
Senator Fischer and Congressman Morelle, on making sure that we 
have accountability for the Architect of the Capitol.
    We are excited that the bill actually to give Congress the 
power to make a decision on changes and termination of the 
Architect of the Capitol is in the Defense Authorization Bill. 
We got our amendment, Senator Fischer's and my amendments 
included in the bill unanimously.
    That happens all the time. No, I am kidding. While progress 
has been made, we must remain clear eyed about challenges, top 
priority threats against Members of Congress. This has happened 
on both sides of the aisle, where Members have had threats. Top 
priority is making sure our resources are used smartly to 
protect people in the Capitol and when they are in their home 
districts.
    Top priority has been our retaining and adding police 
officers for the Chief and to bringing back accountability and 
transparency of the Board, including making it easier for the 
Board and for the Police Chief to call in help when necessary. 
Those were bills that we have just passed.

[[Page 3]]

    I know not everything is rosy, but I think it is very 
important at this moment in time to acknowledge the work that 
we have done together and the trust we have built. That trust 
can be taken away, we know, but we have clearly done more to 
build morale with the troops. Thank you, Chief.
    We are so proud of seeing them every single day, and that 
there just feels a bit more of a positive feeling around this 
Capitol, and a lot has to do when you are able to find common 
ground. With that, I will turn it over to you, Mr. Chairman.

  OPENING STATEMENT OF BRYAN STEIL, CHAIRMAN, A UNITED STATES 
           REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE STATE OF WISCONSIN

    Mr. Steil. Thank you very much. Thanks for your work, Chair 
Klobuchar, to pull us together for this joint hearing. Thank 
the Ranking Member Senator Fischer, and Members of the Senate 
Rules Chamber, or Senate Rules Committee, for hosting today's 
joint hearing in the upper chamber. I think of it as the 
smaller chamber, but, nonetheless.
    We thank Ranking Member Morelle and all the Members the 
House Rules--the House Administration Committee for joining as 
well. Today's hearing is historic in several ways. It is the 
first time in modern history that the full Capitol Police Board 
will testify before both authorizing committees. It is also the 
first time the Board will testify before both of those 
Committees in a joint session.
    I would like to start by recognizing, as Chair Klobuchar 
said, by recognizing officer Jacob Chestnut and Detective John 
Gibson, who lost their lives 25 years ago while defending our 
Capitol. As we remember their sacrifice, I would like to thank 
all members in the Department who work every day to keep 
Members, staff, and visitors, and their fellow officers safe.
    We must continue to work to support our officers and ensure 
they have access to important resources, like those provided 
through the Howard C. Liebengood Center for Wellness, which was 
recently established within the United States Capitol Police.
    Supporting our officers also means bringing transparency 
and accountability to the United States Capitol Police Board. 
The voting membership in the United States Capitol Police Board 
has not changed since 1873.
    Now, members of the Board, all of you are new to your 
positions within the last two years. This is a unique 
opportunity, a unique moment in time where we have an 
opportunity, I think, in particular to depoliticize Capitol 
security. I am concerned that, historically speaking, security 
decisions have been influenced sometimes by politics and 
political considerations rather than security needs.
    I can give you a couple examples. The Board previously 
signed off on assembling a fence around the Capitol despite no 
actionable intelligence. Then on the House side, former board 
members allowed selective enforcement of magnetometers just off 
the House floor.
    The House side remained closed for COVID-19 long after the 
Senate began loosening its restrictions. Let me be clear, 
security should not be political. As Chairman of the Committee 
in House Administration, I am committed to de-politicizing 
Capitol security and establishing greater accountability for 
the Board.

[[Page 4]]

    New board members have made progress toward increasing 
transparency and accountability, and I thank you for that. This 
includes closing the 2017 GAO report recommendations, 
establishing the quarterly board fora, and providing greater 
communication with its congressional oversight committees.
    I am also encouraged that both the House and the Senate 
Sergeant at Arms will actively address some of our concerns 
regarding accountability and transparency in their written 
testimony for today's hearing. Those are steps in the right 
direction, but there is still more work to do.
    As we work to increase transparency and accountability, the 
United States Capitol Police Office of Inspector General is an 
important tool in the toolkit. Congress has directed the office 
to make its reports publicly available.
    Last week, during a subcommittee on oversight hearing, the 
Office of Inspector General said that the Board is stalling the 
public release of its report. I am troubled that the office 
lacks the independence necessary to conduct thorough and 
trusted analysis of the Department.
    Overall, more must be done to ensure greater transparency, 
accountability, and de-politicization of the Board. I remain 
concerned that there has been certain instances in which 
politics has seeped into the Board, impacting its decision-
making. We must seize this opportunity to make meaningful 
reforms to the Board.
    The Board should be focused on effective oversight of the 
United States Capitol Police, and not the day to day management 
of the Department. Ultimately, this is about giving the brave 
men and women the United States Capitol support--this is 
ultimately about giving the brave men and women of the United 
States Capitol Police the support they need. Thank you, and I 
yield back.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 
Thank you, and I now turn it over to my colleague in the Senate 
and friend, Senator Fischer.

  OPENING STATEMENT OF HONORABLE DEB FISCHER, A UNITED STATES 
               SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF NEBRASKA

    Senator Fischer. Thank you, Chairwoman Klobuchar and 
Chairman Steil, for calling this joint oversight hearing of the 
Capitol Police Board. Thank you, board members, for being with 
us this afternoon. I am pleased to be part of this historic 
hearing, and I look forward to more hearings in the future to 
improve transparency and open communication between the Board 
and Congress.
    Board members, each one of you holds a pivotal role here at 
the United States Capitol. General Gibson, as the Senate 
Sergeant at Arms, and Mr. McFarland as the Acting House 
Sergeant at Arms, you are responsible for the security of the 
United States Senate and the House of Representatives.
    Ms. Rexroat, as the Acting Architect of the Capitol, you 
are responsible for the physical security and safety 
infrastructure on our campus. Chief Manger, as the Chief of 
Police, you are responsible for the leading of the brave men 
and women of the United States Capitol Police Department.

[[Page 5]]

    As members of the Capitol Police Board, you are all charged 
with working together to secure not only the Capitol campus, 
but any place where the work of the legislative branch is 
conducted.
    This responsibility is instrumental in ensuring that we as 
Members of Congress can fulfill our Constitutional and 
Legislative responsibilities. It also ensures that our 
constituents have a safe and open access to their 
representatives here in Congress.
    You are a part of a long history, 150 years of this Board 
overseen and supported in the Capitol Police in its mission of 
protecting Congress. Congress is the Constitutional and 
Legislative responsibilities of our Government, and all 
Americans who interact with that legislative process must be 
safe.
    One of our goals here today is to understand how best to 
enhance coordination of your respective agencies to support 
those purposes. Recently, the Board has navigated a number of 
challenges, including ever changing physical and cybersecurity 
risks, evolving threat landscapes, and staff shortages.
    Congress has recognized these challenges and prioritized 
increased funding for the Capitol Police to aid it in tackling 
all of those issues. There will always be emerging challenges 
for the Capitol Police and this Board to navigate, and I look 
forward to hearing today about how the Board has put its 
resources to work and about other ongoing initiatives to 
improve and enhance the work of the Capitol Police. Thank you, 
Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Senator Fischer. 
Representative Morelle.

       OPENING STATEMENT OF JOE MORELLE, A UNITED STATES 
           REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK

    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Madam Chair. And to Chairman Steil, 
Ranking Member Fischer, and all of my colleagues here who have 
come for this important bicameral hearing. I want to thank 
members of the Board as well.
    Of course, Acting Sergeant at Arms, Will McFarland, who I 
have a chance to work with each and every day. General Gibson, 
thank you for your leadership. Thank you, Chief Manger, for all 
the work you are doing. I concur with the Members that have 
spoken. Thank you for all of your work, particularly in the 
last couple of years.
    Specifically, I would like to thank the Acting Architect of 
the Capitol who has a job, I think, you neither applied for or 
necessarily wanted, but you went into work one day as engineer 
and left as the Acting Architect, so--with great 
responsibilities. Those that I am not sure you ever expected to 
have, but I want to thank you for your commitment to this 
institution and to your service.
     I, too, as my colleagues have, want to, recognize the 25th 
anniversary, if you will, of the deaths of Detective Gibson and 
Officer Chestnut who were killed in the line of duty. I think 
it is an important reminder of all the work that you do, that 
we support, and our family--and our thoughts continue need to 
be with their families and their loved ones.
    That act of heroism is a reminder. When we talk about 
security, we are talking about more than, seems to me, just the 
windows and the doors and how to protect the place. We are also 
talking about the nearly 2,000 Capitol Police officers. I know, 
Chief, you

[[Page 6]]

are thinking about those officers each and every day, as all of 
you are. We need to make sure that those who protect us, that 
we are doing everything we can to make sure their environment 
that they work in is as safe as possible.
    I know today we are going to talk about issues like 
implementation of security supplementals, staffing issues, the 
need for transparency and accountability on the part of the 
Board, and our oversight responsibilities. I would also want to 
take some time to make sure we are looking to the future.
    While the security landscape and the threat environment of 
the Capitol is constantly evolving, this is a particularly 
transformative moment for both security and law enforcement in 
general. I think we all recognize that.
    I do want to focus a little bit, and my colleague, Chairman 
Steil referenced this, the concept of wellness in law 
enforcement. I think even the strongest, most physically fit 
officers cannot function effectively if they are not 
emotionally healthy, if they are not mentally healthy. I am 
glad to see the wellness program coming online and increasingly 
seeing it as a standard feature in law enforcement, 
particularly with officers who are trained, I think, to, you 
know, outwardly have strength and project strength, and they 
do.
    I think sometimes their willingness to acknowledge the 
challenges they may have mentally, emotionally, is something we 
need to continue to work on. I recently had one of the most 
impactful meetings in my career.
    I met with Dr. Serena Liebengood, whose husband, Officer 
Howie Liebengood, died after the vicious attack by rioters 
after January 6th. As Chairman Steil mentioned, he is the 
namesake of the wellness center in Congress. But I am eager to 
learn more about the Department's wellness programing, the 
Board's role, and whether we are meeting the needs of the brave 
men and women of the Capitol Police.
    Along similar lines, I was pleased to see Capitol Police 
terminate the contract with what I think was an unqualified, 
unlicensed Department psychologist. I appreciate the leadership 
in terminating that contract. I expect the incoming contractor 
to be appropriately credentialed and to refer officers in need 
of specialized care to the proper professionals to address 
those concerns.
    I also would like, and I know we are limited in time, but 
interested in how recent advances and increased commercial 
investment in artificial intelligence will impact security 
operations of the legislative branch.
    I recently sent letters to the Chief, the Architect, and 
the House officers seeking more information on how they plan to 
incorporate AI into their operations, and how they intend to 
protect Congress from AI related threats.
    I want to make sure Congress in general, and the Capitol 
security apparatus more specifically, is prepared for both the 
opportunities and the threats posed by AI, and I look forward 
to working on a bipartisan issue with my colleagues on this 
exciting but at times precarious issue.
    Finally, no discussion in the future would be complete 
without addressing the fundamental mission of the Capitol 
Police as threats not just to Members, but to staff, to 
families, visitors re

[[Page 7]]

main historically high, and it is important that we focus on 
our role as a protective agency as opposed to a more 
traditional.
    I am grateful to have the opportunity to be in front of 
you. I want to thank all of you for your incredible service and 
look forward to the conversation. With that, I yield back.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Very good. Thank you so much, Ranking 
Member Morelle. Chairman Steil and I are going to introduce the 
witnesses here, and our first witness is Karen Gibson, Senate 
Sergeant at Arms and Chair of the Capitol Police Board.
    General Gibson became the Senate Sergeant at Arms on March 
22, 2021, after a 33 year Army career, retiring at the rank of 
Lieutenant General. This is what she did in her retirement.
    During her military career, General Gibson served in senior 
intelligence and cybersecurity positions, including Director of 
Intelligence for the United States Central Command. She led 
intelligence operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, East 
Africa, and in the United States.
    She received her bachelor's from Purdue University, and two 
master's degree from the National War College and the National 
Intelligence University.
    Mr. Steil. Our second witness is Mr. McFarland, who began 
his career on Capitol Hill in 1991 as a security aide for the 
United States Capitol Police. He has since served in several 
capacities, spanning over a decade as the Director of Security 
at the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, and as 
Director of the Office of House Security, where he remained 
until 2021.
    After a brief stint in the private sector, Mr. McFarland 
was sworn in as the Acting Sergeant at Arms of the United 
States House of Representatives on January 7, 2023. Mr. 
McFarland, we appreciate you being here today and look forward 
to your testimony.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Very good. The third witness, as 
described by Mr. Morelle, who woke up one day and became the 
Architect of the Capitol, is Acting Architect of the Capitol, 
Chere Rexroat. I also did want to thank Chairman Steil and the 
work of your House Committee. Of the Senate, Senator Fischer 
and I were engaged in this as well before that hearing.
    But I really appreciated the work because I think it was 
time for a change there in a big way. Again, this was a 
bipartisan effort.
    Ms. Rexroat became Acting Architect in February and has 
been with the agency since 2018, most recently serving as Chief 
Engineer, where she was responsible for overseeing 
architectural and engineering design, historic preservation, 
and project management.
    Ms. Rexroat joined the agency with over 30 years of design 
and construction experience with the Department of Defense, 
Navy, Marine Corps, and Army. She earned her bachelor's from 
Texas A&M.
    Mr. Steil. Chief Manger, it is good to see you again. 
Thanks for joining us. Chief Manger was sworn in as Chief of 
Police for the United States Capitol Police on July 23, 2021.
    Chief Manger has served over 42 years in the policing 
profession, including more than two decades as Chief of Police 
for two of the largest police agencies at the national capital 
region.

[[Page 8]]

    I would also like to acknowledge that Chief Manger came out 
of retirement to take on the difficult job of rebuilding the 
Department following January 6th. Thank you for being here, 
Chief.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Very good. If the witnesses could 
stand now to be sworn in. Do you swear that the testimony you 
will give before the Committee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
    Mr. Manger. I do.
    Mr. McFarland. I do.
    Ms. Rexroat. I do.
    Ms. Gibson. I do.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Thank you. You can be seated, and we 
are going to proceed to the testimony for five minutes each. 
General Gibson.

  OPENING STATEMENT OF HONORABLE KAREN H. GIBSON, SERGEANT AT 
   ARMS AND DOORKEEPER OF THE SENATE, UNITED STATES SENATE, 
                         WASHINGTON, DC

    Ms. Gibson. Chair Klobuchar, Chair Steil, Ranking Member 
Fischer, Ranking Member Morelle, and Members of the Committees, 
I appreciate the opportunity to testify today as Chair of the 
Capitol Police Board.
    This afternoon, my colleagues and I will discuss our 
progress in safeguarding the Capitol and our plans for the 
future. Behind us, sit dedicated officers and staff of the 
Capitol Police, the Architect of the Capitol, and the offices 
of the Senate and House Sergeants at Arms, representing more 
than 5,000 dedicated public servants who strive daily to ensure 
the safety, security, and support services required for 
America's Congress.
    When I came to this job, the security environment was 
dramatically different. The Capitol was surrounded by tall 
fencing and razor wire. Hundreds of National Guardsmen and 
women patrolled the grounds.
    Our buildings and even our grounds were off limits to the 
public. I am proud to report that today, the Capitol is secure, 
the Capitol is safe, and the Capitol is fully reopened.
    Over two years, I have witnessed the evolution of the 
Capitol Police Board and the Capitol Police. This nonpartisan 
group of security professionals is committed to understanding 
the lessons of the past, to making steady improvements, and to 
pursuing innovations that enhance security.
    I assumed the chair of the Board my very first day on the 
job, in March 2021. At that time, our most critical and urgent 
task was to select a permanent chief. We sought a 
transformative leader who understood policing and the 
dedication and sacrifice required of law enforcement, and who 
would take decisive action to lead and reform a demoralized 
Department.
    The Board unanimously chose Chief Tom Manger, and I believe 
we chose well. I can vouch for significant improvements in the 
Department's ability to plan for, coordinate, and execute 
responses to major events and security incidents. I have 
witnessed the development of a competent and professional 
intelligence capacity that informs the USCP's daily activities.

[[Page 9]]

    The Department has also improved the way it equips, trains, 
recruits, and retains personnel. In coming months, I look 
forward to seeing the Chief's vision play out as we continue 
the Department's reform and reorganization. Post January 6th, 
studies in reports also highlighted shortcomings in the Board.
    As Chair in 2021, and again in 2023, it has been my 
priority to make the Board more responsive, more transparent, 
and accountable. We have significantly reformed the way the 
Board operates. We revised our manual of procedures and abide 
by it in our daily operation. We follow industry best practices 
and procedures in our actions and in our frequent communication 
with stakeholders.
    I am pleased that the Government Accountability Office 
recognizes our significant progress in implementing leading 
practices, having closed a longstanding open recommendation 
about Board operations. We are working to close recommendations 
from three more recent reports and are committed to responding 
to such observations swiftly. We have also made great strides 
in transparency.
    For the first time, the Board holds bicameral security 
forums at least twice a year with congressional leadership and 
leaders of our oversight committees. For the first time in at 
least six years, the Board is clearing Inspector General 
reports for public release. Since May, we have formally 
released four reports, and two others are under review with 
more to follow.
    I have heard varied opinions on the Capitol Police Board's 
structure. The informed security decisions we make must be 
considered in an objective and responsive forum. The current 
Board configuration provides such an environment and I believe 
our composition is the appropriate structure for advancing the 
security needs of the legislative branch in an agile, 
objective, nonpartisan, and bicameral manner.
    It has been 28 months since I joined the Capitol Police 
Board when I was sworn in as the 42d Sergeant at Arms and 
Doorkeeper of the United States Senate. I am humbled by the 
tremendous mission I am entrusted with, and by the dedicated 
public servants who help me execute my responsibilities.
    I am very proud of the progress we have made to improve 
security at the Capitol. I take heart in our successes. I 
acknowledge the need for additional improvement, and I remain 
absolutely committed to enhancing the security of the Capitol 
and the safety of Members, staff, and the millions of visitors 
who walk our halls. I must always thank the brave men and women 
of the Capitol Police dedicated to keeping us safe, as well as 
the hardworking employees of our respective staffs.
    Thank you for your continued trust and support, and for the 
honor of serving our great nation in this capacity. I thank you 
again for the opportunity to appear and look forward to your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Gibson was submitted for the 
record.]
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Yes, I think--yes, Mr. McFarland.

[[Page 10]]

   OPENING STATEMENT OF HONORABLE WILLIAM MCFARLAND, ACTING 
   SERGEANT AT ARMS, UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 
                         WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. McFarland. Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Morelle, 
Senator Klobuchar, Senator Fischer, and distinguished Members 
of the Committee on the House Administration and Senate Rules 
and Administration, thank you for the opportunity to testify 
today at the first joint hearing on the Capitol Police Board.
    My testimony focuses on my objectives for the Capitol 
Police Board, oversight and accountability, innovation and 
transparency. Not coincidentally, these values align with the 
objectives and strategic plan I have established for my own 
team at the House Sergeant at Arms.
    I believe that when the Capitol Police embodies these 
values, it functions at its best. Since starting as the House 
Sergeant at Arms in January, my first goal has been to increase 
oversight and accountability on the United States Capitol 
Police Board and working with my counterparts to reform the way 
we operate.
    At its core, the Capitol Police Board serves as an 
oversight body to the United States Capitol Police. The Board 
focuses on strategic decisions and makes sure the United States 
Capitol Police identifies and takes appropriate operational 
measures to implement those decisions.
    Accordingly, the Chief serves as that--as that operational 
head of the United States Capitol Police force. In accordance 
with this approach, the Board is currently working on the 
Chief's yearly review and establishing the goals for the 
upcoming year.
    In my role on the Board, I will hold him accountable for 
filling those goals and will support his team however I can. 
The Board has also reformed the way it works with the United 
States Capitol Police Inspector General to increase oversight 
and accountability of the Department.
    We have closely partnered with the United States Capitol 
Police IG to close IG recommendations, with a particular 
emphasis on those that were included in the flash reports after 
January 6th. In the spirit of transparency, and as part of my 
office leadership in the United States Capitol Police IG 
Working Group, the Capitol Police Board has improved the public 
release, with appropriate redactions, of IG reports concerning 
the Capitol Police.
    We are actively working those additional reports. It is 
always hard to strike the balance between publicly releasing 
information and maintaining security. But consistent with the 
instructions received from the legislative branch's 
Appropriations subcommittee, four IG reports have been released 
over the past months and a number of others are pending. The 
public release of four reports this year is a new approach for 
the Board.
    As we iron out the processes associated with public 
release, I am confident we can increase the speed in which 
these reports are released. While I am optimistic about the 
progress we made closing United States Capitol Police IG 
recommendations and publicly posting reports, following last 
week's hearing, it is clear that we have more work to do in 
maintaining transparency and clear communication with our 
committees of oversight.

[[Page 11]]

    I am committed to further improvements in both areas and 
holding the United States Capitol Police IG responsible for 
doing the same. We are focused on reviewing the remaining 
Fiscal Year 2023 IG reports first. Leaning forward, we have 
asked the IG for a list of all reports issued prior to Fiscal 
Year 2023, so the working group can expand the amount of 
reports we are releasing.
    Continue to the theme of reforming the way the Board 
operates, I am also pleased to report that the GAO 
recommendation concerning the Board adopting corporate best 
practices about accountability, transparency, and communication 
was closed earlier this year. There is still work to be done to 
improve the way we operate as an oversight board.
    One area of focus going forward is timely closure of GAO 
recommendations that were issued after the January 6th review. 
I am holding myself and my partners on the Board accountable 
for timely completion of these recommendations.
    Significant improvement is needed in the timely completion 
of security projects around the campus. While the inception of 
many of these projects predate my time on the Board, it is an 
accountability focus of mine to ensure that the Capitol, our 
beacon of democracy and the capital of the free world, receives 
much needed enhancements for which Congress has provided 
generous support.
    I look forward to working closely with my counterparts on 
the Board and the committees of jurisdiction on my side as we 
continue to reform the way we operate. During my tenure on the 
Board, I have also focused on fostering a spirit of innovation 
within the Capitol Police and the Capitol Police Board.
    One important accomplishment on this front is the recent 
reorganization proposal of the United States Capitol Police. I 
understand and value the input the Committees have in the 
process and appreciate your support in moving this forward.
    Prospectively, I believe a significant innovation reform 
would be use of manpower. The Capitol Police have a significant 
number of officers spread across a wide range of missions. I 
think there are improvements that can be made to ensure that 
officers are used for their best and highest use.
    I look forward to challenging the Chief and the Department 
to evaluate this area. For example, filling the civilian 
vacancies within the Department to reach the allocated civilian 
staffing levels can help. Doing so, can help free sworn 
personnel to perform duties that only sworn officers can 
perform.
    This, in turn, can allow officers to take much needed time 
off and allow greater access to take vital training. I would 
also like to see the Department move forward with promotions to 
fill up many of the acting positions officials are serving 
today while instilling accountable leadership culture. I also 
firmly believe that United States Capitol Police Board and the 
Capitol Police must continue to focus on operating 
transparently with our stakeholders.
    The Capitol Police Board and the Capitol Police must be 
transparent with stakeholders about the processes and inputs 
that go into decision-making. We must feel comfortable in the 
appropriate forum explaining why we made the decisions we did.
    The Capitol Police Board will not always agree. A 
constructive dialog around opposing views can lead into new 
discoveries and im

[[Page 12]]

prove the ways--way that we operate. In closing, my tenure as a 
Sergeant at Arms and my actions on the Capitol Police Board 
have focused on three goals, oversight and accountability, 
innovation, and transparency.
    These goals have guided my past actions and will continue 
to help guide my service on the Board, in the future, and in 
continuing to reform the way we operate. Thank you again for 
the opportunity to testify before you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. McFarland was submitted for 
the record.]
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Thank you very much. Ms. Rexroat.

  OPENING STATEMENT OF CHERE REXROAT, ACTING ARCHITECT OF THE 
       CAPITOL, ARCHITECT OF THE CAPITOL, WASHINGTON, DC

    Ms. Rexroat. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Chairwoman 
Klobuchar, Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Fischer, and Ranking 
Member Morelle, and distinguished Members of the Committees and 
thank you again for the opportunity to discuss the work of the 
Capitol Police Board.
    As a member of the Board, the AOC remains dedicated to our 
partnership with the House and Senate Sergeant at Arms and the 
United States Capitol Police to ensure that we meet the needs 
of the congressional community.
    I would like to begin with an acknowledgment of how truly 
grateful I am for the AOC hardworking staff, mission focused 
employees who come every day to make sure that the functions of 
Congress, the Supreme Court, and the Library of Congress are 
met.
    Over the past five months, I have met with the Committees, 
stakeholders, and board members to gain an understanding of 
their concerns, issues, and priorities. As highlighted in the 
Fiscal Year 2024 budget hearings, my focus remains, safety, 
security, and accountability.
    The AOC continues to make strides and effectively 
addressing these priorities, but understandably, there is more 
work to do. In coordination with the Board and the Capitol 
Police, the AOC repaired the facility damage from January 6, 
2020--or 2021 and implemented various physical security 
measures to increase the security of the Capitol complex. We 
completed the planning and programing required to fully execute 
the Fiscal Year 2023 security supplemental, and those 
construction projects are scheduled to begin this fall.
    The other related physical security projects are in various 
stages of acquisition and execution. We will continue 
coordinating with the Board to ensure these projects include 
the latest technical requirements. As discussed with your 
staffs, some of these projects and improvements are visible, 
while others are not.
    We stand ready to provide a status briefing on any specific 
project in a secure environment. To help address the speed of 
project execution and expedite the acquisition process, we are 
hiring two contracting officers that will be assigned to the 
Office of the Chief Security Officer.
    Another initiative to help facilitate the overall program 
will be the establishment of a temporary program management 
office to

[[Page 13]]

assist with project administration and execution. Similarly, to 
improve transparency of the planning and implementation 
process, the AOC will resume the monthly action officer 
meetings with representatives of all board agencies.
    We will restart the formal project coordination process 
within the Board to ensure the planned projects fully address 
the requirements and concerns. We will also continue our 
monthly meetings so that we can standardize notification and 
quarterly status updates. In addition to balancing the physical 
and safety requirements, the AOC actively participates in the 
Emergency Management Task Force developed drills and exercises.
    Likewise, we have increased the number of officer emergency 
coordinators and continue to develop comprehensive emergency 
training and the programs available to all staff.
    On behalf of our dedicated servants who carry out our 
mission every day, I want to thank you for your time and your 
support, and your acknowledgment of what the AOC--and our role 
on the Board.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Rexroat was submitted for 
the record.]
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Thank you very, very much. Last up, 
Chief Manger.

OPENING STATEMENT OF J. THOMAS MANGER, CHIEF OF POLICE, UNITED 
             STATES CAPITOL POLICE, WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. Manger. Chairwoman Klobuchar, Chairman Steil, Ranking 
Member Fischer, Ranking Member Morelle, and Members of the 
Committee, thank you for the opportunity to provide both 
Committees with an overview of the comprehensive security 
improvements we have implemented to keep our campus safe.
    When I was sworn in two years ago, the Department was in 
the midst of dealing with multiple Inspector General and 
Committee after action reports detailing the failures and 
improvements needed related to January 6th. However, far and 
away, the most serious issue was staffing. The USCP was--not 
only woefully understaffed to meet its mission, but it was also 
losing more employees than it was able to hire.
    To date, the Department, with the support of Congress, has 
been successful in getting ahead of attrition, bringing on 549 
officers since March 2020. The current number of sworn 
employees on the Department is 2,010, which includes recruits 
at the USCP Academy and FLETC. While still below, the 
Department's authorized level of 2,126 sworn officers has 
allowed us to reopen the campus and provide critical training 
for our officers.
    These staffing enhancements have allowed us to make 
substantial improvements to the Department. It has enabled the 
USCP to stand up an intelligence bureau capable of collecting, 
analyzing, sharing, operationalizing, and disseminating 
intelligence.
    The Department has implemented additional wellness programs 
and services, including the onboarding of trauma informed 
employee assistance counselors and wellness specialists. We 
distributed new civil disturbance equipment to our sworn 
officers and ensured that the officers have received updated 
CDU training.

[[Page 14]]

    We obtained funding for our Dignitary Protection Division 
to travel and protect Members of Congress here and around the 
country. With a 300 percent increase in threat cases against 
Members of Congress, we have updated Department technology to 
enhance investigative capabilities.
    We have also re-engineered our training capabilities, and 
we have adopted industry best practices with the use of virtual 
scenario training to include active shooter training in the 
very buildings we need to protect. We have been tasked in the 
last two years to close out over 150 Inspector General and 
after action report recommendations.
    At the same time, we are developing and implementing a 
transformational change within the Department. All the while, 
we must maintain the staffing and resources needed to carry out 
the Department's daily core mission. While the big picture 
reforms are significant and important, staffing daily mission 
requirements are also vital. We engage in a no fail mission 
every day. It is my responsibility as Chief to pay attention to 
all of the Department's needs.
    At this time, I cannot overstate how great our resource 
needs are for the Protective Services Bureau. The sheer 
increase in the number of threats against Members of Congress 
requires new and innovative techniques to identify, deter, and 
mitigate threats before they materialize.
    Over the last year, a Member of Congress was brutally 
assaulted. Another Member was attacked on the campaign trail. 
The husband of a former House speaker was critically wounded in 
an attack. A Member--and a Member's district staff was attacked 
by a baseball bat wielding intruder.
    These events demonstrate how the Capitol Police need to 
increase our focus on protecting Members, their families, and 
staff throughout the country, not merely in Washington, DC.
    One of the Department's greatest challenges right now is 
the retention of our dignitary protection agents and 
investigative division agents. Prior to January 6th, DPD was 
staffed with 218 agents. Currently, DPD has 174 fully trained 
agents. This staffing level is unsustainable for DPD. Agents 
are averaging nearly 50 hours of overtime per pay period.
    We are again on pace this year to receive approximately 
8,000 threat assessment cases. Threat assessment agents carry 
an average annual caseload of nearly 500 cases. This pace 
cannot be maintained, and we must have the ability to continue 
our hiring efforts in this critical area. The Department, with 
the Board's assistance, are working to remedy this situation. 
Many of the strategies to address these challenges were 
included in our Fiscal Year 2023 and 2024 budget.
    These strategies include additional positions, and 1811 law 
enforcement series status, and leap pay, both of which would 
positively impact our recruitment efforts and slow attrition in 
our Protection Services Bureau.
    To address our staffing issues in the short term, we 
continue to work with our state and local law enforcement 
agencies in the Members' home districts for protective detail 
support through the

[[Page 15]]

MOU process. I am pleased to report today on the great progress 
that we have made.
    While there are still improvements that are underway, I 
assure the Committees that the United States--that the brave 
men and women of the United States Capitol Police stand ready 
to protect and defend this campus without fail.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Manger was submitted for the 
record.]
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Chief. We have a 
number of Members here from the House and Senate, so I will 
stay within my five minutes. We ask that your answers be brief. 
I know that is hard for Senators, but we will. Acting Architect 
Rexroat, we are at the height of the tourist season, there are 
people everywhere, it is really actually quite wonderful to 
see. We have had more than one million visitors so far this 
year at the Capitol Visitor Center. Have staff and volunteers 
at the visitor center kept pace with the increased volume of 
visitors?
    Ms. Rexroat. Thank you for the question. Yes, ma'am. My 
understanding is that they have.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Okay, very good. Thank you. General 
Gibson, quick question. The Board established a process last 
year for reviewing and making public Capitol Police Inspector 
General reports public, and four were released this year.
    It is important for increasing transparency at the 
Department, while at the same time, we know you have to protect 
sensitive security information. Are you committed to making 
additional Inspector General reports public? What is the 
expected timeline?
    Ms. Gibson. Absolutely, Senator. Thank you for that 
question. I am absolutely committed to making those reports 
public once they have been through a security review. It is an 
effort we began with this Congress.
    Our first step was to establish the process and an 
understanding across all the entities who played a role on how 
we would proceed, and then we began. I realize we have not 
released them publicly at the rate that is desired. I think Mr. 
McFarland did a great job of outlining our approach 
collectively to accelerate that in the future.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Thank you. Chief Manger, you talked 
about restoring morale at the Department, hiring new officers, 
how important that is, while working to retain those already in 
the ranks. To buildup the Department and stay ahead of 
attrition has been a top priority for you.
    Talk about how the funding has helped. Both houses have 
worked on funding. Then talk about how you are using this 
funding in terms of what you talked about, the threat 
assessment, the Members and safety at home and the like, and 
what more resources you need.
    Mr. Manger. The funding has helped in a number of ways. 
One, it has made us more competitive in terms of being able to 
attract applicants to the Department. It has assisted us in 
strategies to retain officers so that we--our attrition rate 
has gone down. Most of the increases in my budget requests are 
directly tied to staffing.
    In the beginning we needed to get USB up to staff so we 
could reopen the campus and staff all the posts that need to be 
staffed

[[Page 16]]

around the campus. Now the focus is on our Protective Services 
Bureau to--and there is a number of strategies that we are--you 
will see in the coming months and in the next year that will 
assist us in getting lateral transfers over to our DPD section 
and investigative agents, as well as allowing our officers to, 
some officers, when they get hired to go directly to DPD.
    They would not have to do time in USB if they--we will put 
them through the training, and they will go directly to DPD. 
All of that is meant to increase the numbers in DPD as quickly 
as we can.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Can you speak to the role of the 
Department's field offices and the three special assistant 
United States attorneys at San Francisco, Tampa, and 
Washington, and help in other areas, I believe, in coordinating 
responses to Members' threats, what is the status of the 
Department's effort to open additional offices?
    Mr. Manger. They have really only been in effect for about 
a year or so, so we are still evaluating their effectiveness. 
But I can tell you anecdotally that there have--they have been 
a big help in terms of being able to deploy from their 
locations much more quickly and efficiently than it would be 
for us to send folks out from DC--for a number of threat cases.
    They are subject matter experts for all of our 
investigators as we are investigating those threats and looking 
toward the possibility of prosecution. They have the subject 
matter experts that assist us. Right now, our hope is to open 
up three additional field offices over the next year or so, 
Milwaukee, Boston, and somewhere in Texas. So, and----
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. It is a big state, so but----
    Mr. Manger. It is, but we will find a place.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. All right. Excellent. Chief, one last 
question. You talked about the proposed reorganization, and Mr. 
McFarland also mentioned it, to help the Department to carry 
out its mission. Could you talk about, have you gotten input 
and communicated with rank and file officers during the 
process? That is obviously important to us, to Gus--that 
rhymed--and to all those involved.
    Mr. Manger. Almost any decision I make is informed by my 
discussions with the rank and file and with the FOP. As I--I 
try not to ever pass an officer without stopping and talking to 
them for a few minutes and you get a real idea of what their 
issues are, what their needs are, what--and that is how I 
quickly understood that the biggest issue that we face was 
staffing, for the reasons that you discussed earlier about, you 
know, holding people over and canceling days off. That we 
needed to get to a staffing level where that is not happening 
every day, too frequently.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Very good. Thank you. Chairman Steil.
    Mr. Steil. Thank you very much. I started my opening 
remarks talking about the, one of my priorities is really to 
de-politicize Capitol security.
    Mr. McFarland, I know you share this goal with me, and I 
want to thank you for your leadership in bringing greater 
transparency and accountability to the Board. As you know, the 
United States

[[Page 17]]

Capitol Police Office of Inspector General is required to make 
their reports public. You referenced that in your opening 
remark.
    As we noted, only two reports were made public prior to 
this hearing--or in the near future you obviously increased 
that and doubled it in the lead up to this hearing. Appreciate 
making progress. Question for you.
    It was referenced, you are building out a policy. Is there 
a written policy regarding the process for approving the public 
release of Inspector General reports or is that an informal 
process that the Board has?
    Mr. McFarland. Sir, the way it refers--I think that the IG 
process works is the United States Capitol Police IG, after it 
reviews everything it proposes, redactions, it is sent then to 
the Capitol Police Office of the General Counsel, where they 
also take a look at it.
    They propose redactions. It is then sent to the Inspector 
General Working Group that we currently chair. Then this is 
where we either propose our own redactions or we ask for 
concurrence.
    It then goes to the Capitol Police Board. We vote on it, 
and then once we vote on it, then it gets published.
    Mr. Steil. In that voting, do you feel that the Board then 
has the final say on making those publicly available?
    Mr. McFarland. That the Board does, yes.
    Mr. Steil. The Board holds that--has the authority. Thank 
you, and I appreciate the work you are doing on that. Ms. 
Gibson, thanks for being here at the hearing as well. I think 
you would agree that both the Senate Rules Committee and 
independently the Committee on House Administration have 
oversight jurisdiction over the United States Capitol Police 
Board, right?
    Ms. Gibson. Of course.
    Mr. Steil. You are currently the Chair of the United States 
Capitol Police Board. For the most part, in the role of the 
Chair of the Board, is that mostly administrative or is there 
any other practices that would be unique to the chair, as all 
board members are voting equally correct?
    Ms. Gibson. All board members are voting equally. All board 
members have a say and participate in deliberations.
    The role of the chair is largely administrative. It is, you 
know, hosting the meetings typically held in our spaces. It is 
assisting with administrative requirements and setting the 
agenda. I have never known any time when a board member has 
been denied the opportunity to introduce an item to our agenda.
    Mr. Steil. Perfect. Do you agree that the Committee on 
House Administration has oversight jurisdiction over the 
Chairperson of the Board as it relates to the role of the 
Board?
    Ms. Gibson. That is an interesting question, Chairman. I 
honestly never contemplated that as an oversight role separate 
from my role as an officer of the Senate.
    Mr. Steil. I would go back, and you sent me a letter in 
your capacity as Chair of the Capitol Police Board objecting to 
actions taken by the Committee on the House Administration.
    I think there is a dialog that we should have a little bit. 
But in the role as Chair of the Capitol Police Board, I think--
the Com

[[Page 18]]

mittee House Administration does have oversight. I understand 
we do not, if it is in your role as Senate Sergeant at Arms.
    I would like to insert to the record the letter that you 
wrote dated June 6, 2023, signed by you as Chair of the Capitol 
Police Board, making those comments.
    [The information referred to was submitted for the record.]
    Mr. Steil. Let me move on, though. In your opening remarks, 
you noted that the Capitol is secure. You were also a member of 
former Speaker Pelosi's post January 6th on a raid task force, 
which raised multiple security concerns in the report regarding 
the Capitol complex and provided pretty significant 
recommendations. Of those recommendations that you were a part 
of, have those all been completed?
    Ms. Gibson. The vast majority of them have been, I believe. 
We certainly can get back to you on that. I know that the one 
on introducing horses into the Department is not. It is not a 
recommendation that the Department has chosen to adopt, and 
there may be a few others like that.
    Mr. Steil. Inside the--a sufficient number have been 
resolved that you feel confident in saying that the Capitol is 
secure?
    Ms. Gibson. Yes.
    Mr. Steil. Okay. Let me jump back to you, Mr. McFarland, in 
the final minutes that I have, just to turn our attention to 
the 2017 Government Accountability Office report, where the GAO 
did an analysis of the Board's operation, and it found that the 
United States Capitol Police Department's tactical decisions 
were being made by the Board or the responsibility of the 
Board.
    An example of that would be the uniform standards in 
issuing of gear, a pretty tactical, less strategic decision-
making process. I would like to see the Board operating a 
little bit more strategically than tactically. Can you comment 
as to the reforms you could make? I know we are short on time, 
but maybe very briefly.
    Mr. McFarland. Sure, sir. What I suggest is on little 
things like that, when it talks about the clothing of the 
Capitol Police, I do think that the Chief should make the 
ultimate decision on that. I do not think it should be a board 
recommendation.
    Mr. Steil. Thanks. I think there is a broad idea here as to 
how we get the Board to operate strategically, not tactically, 
so we can focus on oversight, de-politicizing Capitol Police 
security, and supporting the men and women of the Capitol 
Police. Thank you all for being here. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Very good. Senator Fischer.
    Senator Fischer. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, 
Chairman Steil. Chief Manger, you have proposed to restructure 
the Department to prioritize accountability, internal controls, 
and employee development. Your proposal creates several new 
positions, including a third Assistant Chief of Police.
    There are also several current positions, including your 
two current Assistant Chiefs of Police that remain occupied by 
acting personnel. What is your strategy and timeline for 
filling these open positions with some permanent appointees?
    Mr. Manger. I have said from the day I got here that I was 
not going to make those promotions with the upper ranks because 
that would just deplete the lower ranks and we could not afford 
to do

[[Page 19]]

that. However, we are in a position right now where we have 
just completed promotional processes and I am looking to make 
promotions throughout the ranks by the end of the summer.
    Senator Fischer. That is good to hear. Thank you. Many law 
enforcement agencies are having trouble maintaining appropriate 
staffing levels. What programs have you implemented to improve 
recruitment and retention at the Department? You have been 
successful. What impact have they had on those programs?
    Mr. Manger. First of all, I would have to thank Congress 
for changing our pay scale, which made us very competitive. The 
fact that we are able to fund the retention bonus each year, 
student loan repayment program, a number of other benefits that 
we are able to offer our officers that other Departments do 
not.
    We, as much as I read and hear from my colleagues about 
difficulty in recruiting people, thankfully we have not had 
that problem. We get over a thousand applications every month.
    Senator Fischer. Remind me what the number is now on 
officers with the Department.
    Mr. Manger. We have 2,010 officers. Now, that includes 
officers that are in the academy as well.
    Senator Fischer. What is your goal?
    Mr. Manger. Our authorized strength is currently 2,126. 
However, I am hopeful, if the Fiscal Year 2024 budget passes, 
that bumps up to 2,204.
    Senator Fischer. On the assistant positions that I 
mentioned earlier, are you looking at drawing from current 
officers within the Department, or do you anticipate to look 
outside? I assume you are on that road right now when you said 
you were hoping to fill those positions with permanent people 
by the end of summer.
    Mr. Manger. Yes, we are in the process now. We have gotten 
applications both from inside the Department and outside, and 
all will be considered.
    Senator Fischer. Okay. Thank you. Also, Congress has 
provided specific mutual aid funding for the Department to 
reimburse other law enforcement agencies that assist the 
Department's protection of Members at events in their home 
states. Can you describe that process for conducting outreach 
to these agencies and how the Department ensures collaborative 
information sharing to support those mission requirements?
    Mr. Manger. Where we know that there are either leadership 
or Members who have threats that we are dealing with, we are 
proactive in reaching out to local law enforcement. Where we 
get requests from any Member of Congress for a law enforcement 
coordination if they are doing a town hall meeting or whatever 
in their home district, we are proactively contacting the state 
or local agency that can assist and formulating a memorandum of 
understanding so that we can reimburse them for their 
assistance in that home district.
    Senator Fischer. Have you found that cooperation, that 
collaboration, to be positive?
    Mr. Manger. Very positive. Now, there are--some of our 
Members live in small towns where the Departments cannot 
necessarily give us the assistance that we are looking for. But 
then we look

[[Page 20]]

beyond the town to the county or the state. But it is all very 
positive.
    Senator Fischer. When you look to the state, do you have a 
pretty good relationship then with the Governor's Office, say? 
Has state patrol been involved in this?
    Mr. Manger. Well, we go directly to the law enforcement 
agency. Yes, the cooperation is always very good.
    Senator Fischer. Okay. This is for any member of the Board 
to answer. As we look at these threats against Congress and 
Members of Congress, they are increasing, not just physical, 
but online and through technology that we use on a daily basis. 
How are your agencies working together to mitigate 
cybersecurity threats that target the technology infrastructure 
of the legislative branch? General.
    Ms. Gibson. I will take that one, Senator, because I 
think--as I am responsible for cybersecurity in the United 
States Senate, as you know, and my House counterpart is the 
Chief Administrative Officer.
    We have a very robust and capable cybersecurity team within 
the Senate Sergeant at Arms CIO shop. They work closely--they 
have access to a number of commercial vendors to provide 
additional support. We collaborate very closely with the 
Capitol Police and the House Chief Administrative Officer on 
cyber threats, as well as the Architect has some cyber security 
responsibilities as well.
    Together, we are working to enhance relationships with 
external entities like the FBI, DHS, and others who have access 
to sensitive threat information that does not readily make its 
way to the legislative branch. While there is still 
considerable work to be done, I am very pleased with the 
progress that we are beginning to make in that regard.
    Senator Fischer. Thank you, General. Thank you, Madam 
Chair.
    Mr. Steil. I now recognize Ranking Member Morelle for five 
minutes.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you again to my 
colleagues. Thank you all. I want to start, if I can, Chief 
Manger, with asking a little bit about, again, emotional health 
and wellness.
    I also want to acknowledge Gus Papathanasiou. You know, I 
do not know, that is probably not--I am not terribly good with 
Greek names, a little better with Italian, but Gus, thank you 
for all your work. Chief, thank you for your courtesies.
    Having us over at the operations center and meeting with 
senior staff, I think has helped me and my staff get a much 
better handle.
    When you are there and you are talking to people, and you 
are able to ask some questions about operations, certainly 
helps, at least for me to take theoretical ideas and it makes 
them much more tangible.
    But I want to go back to some eye opening comments, 
particularly around the wellness program you offer through the 
Howie Liebengood Center. Can you just give an overview from 
your perspective of how that is going and how the program is 
progressing?
    Mr. Manger. Well, I am very happy to report, and I think 
this is the first time I have been asked about this at every 
hearing, but I--we have 16 full-time employees in the wellness 
center currently, and we are still building.

[[Page 21]]

    We have--it is an employee assistance program. It is a peer 
support program. It is a wellness program. We have trauma 
informed counselors so it can--we can deal with PTSD problems 
with--for the officers. We have also provided critical incident 
stress management training. One hundred and fourteen of our 
employees have taken advantage of it. We have got 87 more that 
are signed up to take that training.
    We are going to have folks, peer support assistance all 
throughout the Department. But our wellness program tries to 
address--we have looked at what is working around the country 
at wellness programs, and we have tried to get these best 
practices to make sure that we are addressing all of the needs 
that our Department has.
    But we are also doing a formal needs assessment where we 
will hear from everybody in the organization about what they 
would like to see. This is informing us as we continue to build 
this program.
    Mr. Morelle. If you are having interaction with officers 
and members of the force, what has the feedback been from your 
perspective of the things that they would like to see that you 
have not been able to do yet? Or is it being received well? I 
mean, just give a sense for how the members are dealing with 
it.
    Mr. Manger. It runs the gamut. I mean, you have got some 
officers that say, you know, I want to get in better shape 
physically. I want to improve my nutrition. You have got other 
officers that are dealing with very difficult emotional 
problems, some at home, some to do with work. It is just a 
matter of having all of those services available to folks.
    Mr. Morelle. Is it--is there access 24 hours a day? I do 
not know how it works in terms of--I mean, if a member is 
having a crisis in the middle of the night, do they--is it 
open? Can they access it?
    Mr. Manger. You know, I will have to--I am fairly certain 
there is, because we certainly when we need someone from the 
wellness center, we can get them 24/7. That certainly will be 
part of the way we operate. I do not know if we are there yet, 
but it certainly is the goal.
    Mr. Morelle. In terms of recruits, do they receive wellness 
training throughout the Federal law enforcement training 
center? Do you know if that is part of the----
    Mr. Manger. It is. It is just basically an introduction 
course. We talk about the importance of understanding how the 
job can impact you, the stress of the job can impact you, what 
services are available, and how to deal with that stress in as 
healthy a manner as one can. Yes, they get familiarized with 
that in the academy.
    Mr. Morelle. Yes, I would love to continue to be supportive 
of that. If there is other things that we ought to be doing, we 
would love to have that conversation.
    Just to shift gears, earlier this month, a Federal Judge in 
the case, Missouri v. Biden, issued a pretty wide ranging 
preliminary injunction restricting the Government's 
communication with social media companies that bars the 
executive branch from engaging with platforms on content 
moderation issues, with a few exceptions.

[[Page 22]]

    I am just curious if you have been tracking the case and 
whether or not because, while it does not deal with the 
legislative branch directly, it does with partners like the FBI 
and Department of Justice on intelligence gathering.
    Has this impacted your ability to work threat cases and 
gather intelligence? Has it had an impact at all?
    Mr. Manger. Not to my knowledge. I will get back to you, I 
will talk to my folks, but not to my knowledge.
    Mr. Morelle. Then, I do not have enough time, but I am 
going to follow-up offline. Just want to continue to ask 
questions about artificial intelligence and how you see that 
essentially as a tool, and also how you see it as a potential 
threat. I probably will come back to all of you in that regard. 
Thank you, sir.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Representative 
Morelle. We have been joined by a number of Senators, including 
Senator Ossoff, Senator Britt, Senator Capito, Senator Welch is 
with us, and I appreciate him allowing Senator Bennet to go 
before him because Senator Bennet has another time commitment. 
Senator Bennet.
    Senator Bennet. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you very much 
to my colleague from Vermont for letting me jump in line just 
for a moment. I really appreciate it. Chief. I apologize, I 
missed some of the earlier testimony. I want to go back to 
something you said. Your authorized force is going to be 2,200, 
you think, if there is--if the----
    Mr. Manger. If the Fiscal Year 2024 budget is approved.
    Senator Bennet. You are up to 2,000 now, so you are 200 or 
so short at this point. How big are your academy classes?
    Mr. Manger. They generally run around 24 to 25 officers.
    Senator Bennet. How often do they run?
    Mr. Manger. Nearly every month.
    Senator Bennet. How long do you--I mean, if you are able to 
fill those classes, how long do you think it is going to take 
you to be able to get to the authorized--?
    Mr. Manger. You know, realistically, we seemed to, in the 
last few years, we seemed to get about a hundred head of 
attrition each year. To get 200 would be 2 years, that is my 
guess.
    Senator Bennet. What--in a long ago, long faraway place, I 
was the Chief of Staff to a Mayor of Denver whose name was John 
Hickenlooper. I do not know whatever happened to that guy but 
he----
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Bennet. I can remember, you know, in the work that 
we did there, there are challenges when you are building a 
police department. You know, sometimes poor management before 
you means you have got a lot of attrition and you cannot find 
the people you need.
    Sometimes there are too many--you know, you have got a long 
lag in hiring because of budget things. We have--you are in a 
very interesting position, I think, in part because people saw 
both the events of January 6th, but also, you know, heard how 
uncompetitive the pay was at some point, how poorly budgeted 
this was.
    Obviously, we have made a lot of progress. But I wonder if 
you could use this opportunity to tell us what you are telling 
people

[[Page 23]]

who are thinking about whether they ought to try to join the 
Capitol Police force.
    What is your recruiting pitch about why they should come 
and how they should think about the bad news that maybe 
hopefully is in the rearview mirror?
    Mr. Manger. Well, there are a lot of ways to serve your 
country, but this is one of the finest ways to serve your 
country by serving with Capitol Police. People truly get a 
front row seat to history.
    This is not--you know, I have worked and grew up in two 
other police departments and they were very different from this 
police department. There are a lot of folks that this kind of 
job, the protection part of it, the service to their country, 
being a part of--being in this historic campus appeals to them.
    I think we have been blessed to have no trouble getting 
people to apply.
    Senator Bennet. Do you think, I mean, and you mentioned 
earlier, I just want to underscore for people who might be 
listening that the compensation now is competitive in ways that 
it was not before.
    Mr. Manger. Absolutely. An officer, the day they stepped 
out of the academy, is making $74,000 a year. That is pretty 
good.
    Senator Bennet. Do you, Mr. McFarland, I wonder, do you 
have anything that you would like to add on the questions about 
mental health, in particular the services that we are providing 
or that you are providing in support of the Chief's mission 
here?
    Mr. McFarland. Sure. At the request of certain members, I 
have actually reached out to Ms. Liebengood personally to talk 
to her exactly what she thought the mission should be. I think 
there was a disconnect in the beginning of what the wellness 
center, you know, what she envisioned and what the wellness 
center kind of envisioned.
    But I think together, by having these discussions, I think 
we have gotten in on the right track and I am fully supportive 
of the Chief and how it has been working out so far.
    Senator Bennet. You did not--I heard the Chief's numbers in 
terms of people that it asked to--those sounded a little bit 
lower than I might have expected, given everything that we 
are--we have been confronting. I wonder if you have any 
reaction.
    Mr. McFarland. No, I think 16 people right now for starting 
out is adequate. I would like to see the numbers go higher, but 
I think it is trying to find out a good baseline of where we 
are right now.
    Senator Bennet. I just have 30 seconds left, so that is 
lucky for you, Ms. Gibson, because I was going to come to you 
with a question but let me make an observation.
    You know, when people come from Colorado, I think it is 
really important for them to feel like these buildings are 
accessible to them and there are entrances that have been 
closed, you know, some of it after January 6th.
    Some of it, I think, goes back to the sequester, the budget 
stuff several years ago. The one that drives me craziest is the 
second floor of the Russell Building where you know that 
entrances in huge block letters, entrance closed, which for 
many people is the first--their first view of our--of their 
building, of the place that they are supposed to be able to 
have access.

[[Page 24]]

    I wonder if there is a plan to think about reopening some 
of those entrances now that we are in the position that we are 
in today, and in particular that one.
    Ms. Gibson. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate that feedback. 
That is something we will work with the Department. You know, 
we have prioritized the doors that would open based on their 
growing numbers, and certainly that is one that we can look at 
where it falls in the broader scheme of continuing to man posts 
as the Department grows larger.
    Senator Bennet. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Mr. Steil. Mr. Griffith is recognized for five minutes.
    Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Chief Manger, I 
appreciate your candor and willingness to answer questions 
earlier this year regarding a separation agreement of former 
Acting Chief of Police Pittman, which resulted in her 
retirement with full benefits.
    I think you are transparent, and I appreciate that, and 
thank you for that. I think you are one of the good guys, but I 
am kind of like a dog with a bone.
    Regarding Ms. Pittman's separation agreement, was the 
United States Capitol Police's General Counsel, Thomas DiBiase, 
acting as your personal attorney or the attorney for the United 
States Capitol Police?
    Mr. Manger. For the Capitol Police.
    Mr. Griffith. Are you aware that the United States Capitol 
Police's General Counsel, DiBiase, in a transcribed interview 
has attempted to invoke attorney client privilege, yes or no?
    Mr. Manger. Yes.
    Mr. Griffith. If yes, did you instruct him to do so?
    Mr. Manger. No.
    Mr. Griffith. Okay. Notwithstanding the fact that attorney 
client privilege does not apply in my opinion in this case, 
because this is a legislative branch investigating a 
legislative branch entity, common law established practice, and 
the Congressional Oversight Manual stand for the proposition 
that there is no attorney client privilege in such cases.
    Notwithstanding that this Committee or Congress might be 
the client, as opposed to you in your official capacity, if you 
are in fact the client, would you waive the attorney client 
privilege between you and lawyer DiBiase, yes or no?
    Mr. Manger. I trust his judgment on the attorney client--
the use of the attorney client privilege.
    Mr. Griffith. Do you understand that--I do not think it is 
your privilege? But if it is, it is not his privilege, it is 
your privilege. The lawyer does not have that privilege, you 
do. If it is, in fact, your privilege, would you be willing to 
waive?
    Mr. Manger. I would take my attorney's advice.
    Mr. Griffith. Well, it is a privilege. It belongs to you. 
It does not belong to your attorney.
    Mr. Manger. I understand that.
    Mr. Griffith. If he is giving you advice on that, that 
would be a conflict of interest for him, do you understand 
that? You would need to get separate counsel for that.
    Mr. Manger. I deal with my General Counsel all the time on 
these issues, and I trust his advice.

[[Page 25]]

    Mr. Griffith. All right. I understand you trust his advice, 
but this is specific between you and he, and therefore he would 
have a conflict in advising you on this. I suggest you get 
separate counsel for that. Ms. Gibson, are you familiar with 
the separation agreement entered into between the United States 
Capitol Police and former Acting Chief of Police Pittman, yes 
or no?
    Ms. Gibson. I am familiar with that.
    Senator Bennet. But you were not involved in that 
discussions, as I understand it. From the----
    Ms. Gibson. That is correct.
    Senator Bennet. The good Chief has told us that before.
    Ms. Gibson. Right. The Board was not aware of that 
agreement until the testimony before this Committee.
    Mr. Griffith. Okay. Have you all as a Board discussed this 
separation agreement after the fact? Have you all had 
discussions regarding this agreement and how it came about?
    Ms. Gibson. We have.
    Mr. Griffith. Have you had those discussions with Attorney 
DiBiase?
    Ms. Gibson. I do not recall Mr. DiBiase being present.
    Mr. Griffith. He was not privy to those discussions?
    Ms. Gibson. No.
    Mr. Griffith. Was Chief Manger privy to those discussions?
    Ms. Gibson. Yes. I mean, we discussed this at a board 
meeting following----
    Mr. Griffith. Did he discuss with you the attorneys advice 
that was given to him?
    Ms. Gibson. That I do not recall. I actually think it was--
our discussion was more--well, we see the management of 
personnel within the Department to be within the Chief's 
purview, back to the tactical versus strategic. It was a 
significant event that we would have appreciated knowing about 
in advance.
    Mr. Griffith. Okay.
    Ms. Gibson. That was really the extent of our----
    Mr. Griffith. Same questions to the other two members. Did 
you all ever have any discussions with Chief Manger about his 
discussions with the Attorney DiBiase?
    Mr. McFarland. No.
    Mr. Griffith. Okay. My concern is, is that policy was 
changed and that may or may not have been appropriate. That is 
another issue which Chief Manger got a legal counsel, and I am 
not--he is a good guy. I am not fussing at him.
    My concern is, if we have done it for one, are we going to 
do it for others? Has such an agreement been approved for any 
rank and file officers? I would ask this of you, Ms. Gibson, do 
you have any knowledge that this was approved for rank and file 
officers?
    I am not talking about a case where, as the rules says, you 
can do it when you expect somebody to come back or you hope 
they will come back, maybe they have got a slight disability, 
or a medical issue and you are hoping they are coming back.
    In this case, we had an employee who actually had taken 
another job and left the region, had gone to the West Coast. Do 
you know of any other cases where that has been done for rank 
and file members of the United States Capitol Police?

[[Page 26]]

    Ms. Gibson. I would say I do not have knowledge of when it 
has been done, period, because, again, it is a personnel 
management decision that the Board has not been involved in for 
any of the officers.
    Mr. Griffith. Have you ever taken those liberties with the 
Senate under your--any of the folks under your situation in the 
Senate?
    Ms. Gibson. I do not have a similar program.
    Mr. Griffith. Okay. I appreciate that. I see my time is up 
and I yield back.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Very good. Next up is Senator Welch, 
who spent a lot of time with the House in the past and is now 
back in his capacity as a Senator.
    Senator Welch. Thank you very much. It really is good to be 
here with my colleagues from the House. By the way, I do not 
know who provided all those goodies out back, this is on the 
down low, all right. But thank you to the House Administration 
Committee.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Welch. It is good to be here. I want to thank 
Chairwoman Klobuchar and Chairman Steil for this hearing. 
Number one, I just want to thank all of you for the work you 
do, especially everybody who has been involved since January 
6th.
    I mean, obviously an incredibly traumatic event. I know 
folks suffered more than our officers. It is just astonishing 
because for a lot of the officers, the experience has not 
lessened. I also just want to acknowledge that, as is always 
the case after that happens, there have to be investigations.
    There are different points of view about what and how it 
happened, who should have done what. But bottom line, I think 
you all have done a really good job, and I, just as a person 
who serves here and benefited from the work that you all have 
done, I want to express my gratitude to you. Thank you.
    I do want to just go back, Chief Manger, to some of the 
questions that Mr. Morelle was asking about mental health. I 
mean, that is a tough topic. Officers are tough people, and 
they do their job, and they have no expectation that they will 
do anything less than what is required. But at the end of the 
day, some of the experiences that our officers had were pretty, 
pretty tough.
    Also, I wonder whether at times when there has been so much 
political discussion about what happened, who was at fault, 
what does it mean, that diminishes the reality of what folks on 
the front line did that day to protect us here.
    Maybe you can just talk about morale and what we can do to 
be supportive of the people who protected us and stood up and 
did their duty.
    Mr. Manger. Certainly January 6th had a devastating impact 
on morale, and a lot of it was directed toward the officers 
feeling that the Department, the leadership let them down.
    Things as simple as just having the equipment that they 
needed, they did not have. But as time went on, and I guess the 
political discussion about January 6th did, in fact, impact my 
officers as well, they felt like they were doing, you know, the 
job they were paid to do. Acted very bravely and fought 
courageously that day.

[[Page 27]]

    Then you had folks, frankly no offense, on both sides of 
the aisle, who were critical of--had their own agendas, you 
know, to about what happened. Oftentimes, it certainly impacted 
my officers to feel like they were being disrespected or not--
you know, that somehow they were at fault for what occurred.
    I spent a lot of time ensuring that--making sure they knew 
that the one thing that did not fail that day was the courage 
of the men and women of this police department.
    Senator Welch. Well, I am sure I speak for everybody up 
here in saying we agree with that. Thank you. Ms. Gibson, the 
Senate Rules and Homeland Security Joint Report recommended the 
Board streamline its policies and procedures for--in the last 
Congress, you took steps to address this, including 
implementing an electronic approval process.
    I just want you to comment on what steps the Board is 
taking to make sure the Board is responsive to Department 
requests and how that is going.
    Ms. Gibson. Thank you, Senator. The electronic approvals 
was a big one. Previously, requests from the Department were 
hand walked around to various members of the Board for them to 
sign things. We can now sign things electronically.
    I have seen instances where, you know, within five minutes 
every electronic signature is in. I would say also we do not 
need to wait for a formal board meeting to field a request from 
the Department or to make a decision.
    There have been any number of occasions when a member of 
the Board has raised an issue that they thought needed 
immediate discussion, and we are able to convene a meeting 
either virtually or in person to ensure that is discussed.
    We are looking at other ways in which we might further 
expedite and streamline. I think some of the recommendations to 
remove some of the tactical decision-making from the Board are 
good ones that would help to enhance our ability to really 
focus on strategic things.
    Senator Welch. Okay. Thank you very much. My time has 
expired.
    Mr. Steil. Thank you. Representative Torres is recognized.
    Ms. Torres. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Senator Amy 
Klobuchar, for being--for allowing us to come and join us--join 
you today. Thank you for also working with me on the 9-1-1 
Saves Act. As you know, 9-1-1 dispatchers, police dispatchers 
across the country deserve to be recognized as the first 
responders that they are.
    Thank you for being my partner in doing that. Thank you to 
our guests for being here today. Chief, thank you once again. 
Last week, the Oversight Subcommittee on House Administration 
held a hearing with Capitol Police Inspector General. During 
that hearing, the Inspector General indicated that he had 
closed out recommendations based on reforms undertaken in, and 
I am going to quote, ``in the spirit of those 
recommendations.''
    Mr. McFarland, in general, is it common practice in 
Government for IG recommendations to be closed based on agency 
compliance with the spirit of the recommendations?
    Mr. McFarland. Congresswoman Torres, as it relates to the 
compensating control, it is not uncommon that this has happened

[[Page 28]]

before, including the predecessor to the current IG also did 
the same measures.
    Ms. Torres. Are you made aware when those recommendations 
are made to be closed in the spirit, and do you typically agree 
with them, or is there some discussion that happens?
    Mr. McFarland. I think what--the good news is we were 
unaware at first, when I first got here, of being here just 
seven months, we were unaware that some things were being 
closed out.
    But once we found out that they were being closed out with 
these compensating controls, we immediately took action to 
actually remedy the situation by making sure that the Board is 
now informed of, since May--I think it is May, that we will be 
notified if any of these controls come forward. I am pleased to 
announce that nothing has come forward that way since, but yes, 
ma'am.
    Ms. Torres. I am going to give you an example why this is 
so important to me and why it gives me such heartburn when I 
read recommendation 20.
    On January 6th, I found myself, as well as other 
colleagues, stranded on the balcony, 45 minutes, face down, 
crawling from one side of the balcony to the other, without a 
place to really hide with no, you know, with basic security. We 
had one officer on our side. The officer, the one officer that 
was present near Gallery 1 had--or Gallery 3, did not have keys 
to a door that was wide open.
    When the announcement was made to lockdown the Capitol and 
that we were going to go on lockdown and to lay on the ground 
and lay down quietly, that door remained wide open. Members of 
Congress were yelling, you know, back and forth to the officer 
to close the door.
    He informed us that he had no keys. When I read the report 
analysis that says that, you know, based on, I guess common 
practice, there is a process to keep those doors or to have 
somebody secure those doors or have access to keys, what is 
that process? Because we certainly did not have that process on 
January 6th.
    I never want to find myself or any other Member of Congress 
or visitor in that predicament where we were trapped without a 
place to evacuate.
    Mr. McFarland. Congresswoman Torres, I will let you know 
that this predates me being here, but I can say that the 
chamber itself now is more secure than it has been previous to 
January 6th. We have also----
    Ms. Torres. Well, that does not satisfy me. Come back to me 
and tell me how--why this recommendation was closed and what 
the process is. Chief, maybe you can come back and tell me how 
officers were trained to find whomever the key master is.
    I mean, at that time, and it is not your responsibility, 
but the AOC was conveniently, you know, in another state while 
the rest of us were trapped. I have exceeded my time, so I am 
going to yield back. Please come back to my office with a 
response.
    Mr. McFarland. Yes, ma'am.
    Mr. Steil. Thank you. Dr. Murphy is recognized for five 
minutes.
    Mr. Murphy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 
coming today. You are in the inimitable position of being here 
that you have to defend what was done before. Some of things 
are indefen

[[Page 29]]

sible, but some of also the fact that you are going to say this 
is what the plan is moving forward. Pipe bombs.
    A couple of pipe bombs were planted outside the Republican 
and Democratic Party National Headquarters. The individual 
still remains at large, has eluded law enforcement, and FBI 
Director Christopher Wray says it is ongoing but has not 
provided us any details.
    Chief Manger, I asked you about these pipe bombs in a 
previous meeting. Let me ask you this, do you believe Members 
of Congress were targets of the pipe bombs that were placed at 
the Party headquarters?
    Mr. Manger. Well, I think that certainly political parties 
were a target. I mean, I think--and I am just----
    Mr. Murphy. Just two years ago.
    Mr. Manger. Yes, I am just----
    Mr. Murphy. Two years ago. The rest of you guys, to the 
other members of this Board, have you guys received any 
updates, any updates at all about the ongoing investigation?
    Mr. McFarland. No sir.
    Mr. Murphy. Not a word, not a peep?
    Ms. Gibson. I understand it is an ongoing FBI investigation 
but have no additional information.
    Mr. Murphy. When was the last time? Have you all asked for 
an update?
    Ms. Gibson. We meet regularly with the FBI on a recurring 
basis. We can certainly ask about that the next time we meet.
    Mr. Murphy. Well, I mean, I would imagine just you are 
asking--and I mean, here we are, two years with no update. Just 
seems a little bit odd with all the cameras and everything that 
are going around here that there is no update.
    You guys are responsible for protecting us, and I thank you 
for doing it and for volunteering a job that I would not want 
to do. I would love for you guys to commit to calling the FBI 
and asking for an update on their investigation. We need to 
know that they are actually doing their job.
    Mr. Manger. I will, sir.
    Mr. Murphy. I need that commitment from you guys. I truly 
do, because we need to know, just in light of all the things 
that happened and all the politics that occurred, we just need 
to know that you need to know, that you are making sure that 
you are covering our backs. I have great faith in you guys 
compared to what was happening before, but I think we need to 
know that publicly.
    At the time, you know, decisions made by the police board--
again, everything in retrospect. You guys were not here. It was 
very troubling that the police board prevented House 
Republicans, but not House Democrats, from releasing January 
6th footage. We did not get that until after we had gotten to 
the Majority.
    It reveals a horrible double standard, one of which we are 
seeing more and more, and Americans are concerned more and more 
about this country, about a double standard of justice that is 
occurring. You cannot stick your head in the ground.
    It is happening. Americans are very concerned about that. 
That decisionmakers, at the time, especially, again, not in 
your purview,

[[Page 30]]

were perceived as having more political rather than threat 
based considerations.
    I go back and looking through since we have been able to 
look and see, what about the National Guard, what about this, 
what about that, and according to a GAO report, approved by 
both House and Senate leadership, we found that the House and 
Senate Sergeant at Arms wasted valuable time seeking approval 
from House and Senate leadership to bring in the National 
Guard.
    Cannot have that happen again. This was politics, it was 
not security. You know, after January 6th, numerous security 
decisions were dictated politically, politically, by the 
Speaker of the House at that time to further a political 
agenda.
    What I need from you all are guarantees that you are going 
to be an apolitical board, that decisions, regardless if it 
were the head of the Senate, regardless of the Speaker of the 
House, that if there is a security threat upon the Members of 
Congress, that if you deem it to be a political one rather than 
an actuarial threat, you will at least alert the Minority party 
at the time, I do not care who it is, about the political 
nature of the charge rather than the actuarial threat.
    Ms. Gibson. Dr. Murphy, I can assure you that I am 
committed to a nonpartisan approach in every security decision 
that I make, and I demand the same of all my staff.
    Mr. Murphy. Thank you. It was honestly an embarrassment on 
our Nation because it was obviously done politically. What 
happened on January 6th is beyond comprehension. What happened 
was wrong, but there were obviously mitigating factors that 
could have occurred which did not occur for political reasons. 
With that, Mr. Chairman, thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Steil. The gentleman yields back. Ms. Bice is 
recognized for five minutes.
    Ms. Bice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the 
Board for being with us this afternoon. I am grateful for the 
work that you and your employees do to keep the Capitol complex 
safe for Members, for staff, and certainly for visitors.
    However, following up on Mr. Griffith's line of 
questioning, I am concerned about the separation agreement with 
former Acting Chief Pittman and how it was handled. It appears 
she was given the ability to go on leave without pay status 
with Capitol Police to attain the necessary 20 years of service 
required for federal retirement benefits, while simultaneously 
beginning a new lucrative job with UC Berkeley.
    I want to start with this, General Gibson, you stated 
earlier in your testimony that personnel issues for the United 
States Capitol Police were under the purview of the Chief of 
Police. However, Madam Chair, I ask unanimous consent to enter 
into the record a page from the Police Board GAO report dated 
February 2017, which lists roles and responsibilities for the 
Capitol Police Board and the Chief of the United States Capitol 
Police.
    Under this, the human capital roles includes issuing 
waivers to mandatory retirement provisions for Capitol Police 
officers, as well as determining the leave system for Capitol 
Police personnel. It does state, in fact, the Board establishes 
the uniform policy. Madam Chair.

[[Page 31]]

    Mr. Steil. Without objection.
    [The information referred to was submitted for the record.]
    Ms. Bice. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, my apologies. General 
Gibson, the Capitol Police Board is required by statute to 
implement a uniform policy, correct?
    Ms. Gibson. Yes. Policy, but not the--we do not get 
involved in the application of the policy to individuals within 
the Department, unless it is a termination.
    Ms. Bice. Do you believe that the policy for leave has been 
applied uniformly in this particular situation?
    Ms. Gibson. So, Ms. Bice, it would be difficult to say if 
it is applied uniformly without understanding how it has been 
applied across the Board. Ms. Pittman or former Chief Pittman's 
separation is the only one I am aware of like that, because, 
again, this is not a matter that the Board has been personally 
involved in.
    Ms. Bice. Mr. McFarland, if I could ask you, do you believe 
that the--do you agree with the interpretation that the United 
States Capitol Police have the unilateral authority to place 
employees on leave without pay?
    Mr. McFarland. Policies, yes. The Chief is responsible for 
administrating the policy while the Board and the oversight 
committees look at the regulations. So, yes.
    Ms. Bice. Ms. Rexroat, and I know you--this is a little bit 
of a foreign topic for you as you have only been acting for a 
short time, but----
    Ms. Rexroat. Yes, it would be hard for me to answer that 
one without the full details. I do not have the full details, 
so I apologize.
    Ms. Bice. This is my concern. You know, we mentioned at the 
beginning of this hearing that we have worked hard to improve 
processes and sort of you know clarify issues, come together.
    But on this particular topic, I think there is 
disagreement. It is very clear that there is sort of this, we 
are not quite sure. We think the Board can, but the Chief--I am 
sorry, the Board has the ability, but the Chief can 
unilaterally make these decisions. It does not seem like there 
is real clarity on whether or not this policy has been put in 
place uniformly across the Board.
    I have concerns about that. I want to also talk about the 
nondisclosure agreements, if I may, Chief. It has been widely 
reported that at least one former United States Capitol Police 
signed a non-disclosure agreement when he left.
    Additionally, former Officer Pittman also signed a 
separation agreement prohibiting her from sharing that 
information. This Committee has actually asked for a copy of 
that agreement, and we have been given a summary, but actually 
not a copy of the agreement.
    The reason given was that Ms. Pittman was prohibited from 
doing so in the agreement. Would you be willing to offer this 
agreement to this Committee to be able to review?
    Mr. Manger. The summary has absolutely everything that is 
included in the agreement.
    Ms. Bice. Would you be willing to give us a copy of the 
actual agreement that was signed by Ms. Pittman and yourself, 
and legal counsel?

[[Page 32]]

    Mr. Manger. I would have to check with my General Counsel 
before I answer that.
    Ms. Bice. Mr. Chair, my time is almost expired, so at this 
time I yield back.
    Mr. Steil. Gentlewoman yields back. Ms. Lee is recognized 
for five minutes.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to focus on 
the subject of the Inspector General process. As we know, the 
Inspector General reviews the processes and procedures of the 
Capitol Police from time to time, makes recommendations on 
areas where we might need to see improvement.
    Then, of course, we track, and you all as a Board, track 
implementation of that improvement. I would like to talk a 
little bit more detail about how that happens and the status of 
some of those improvements. Last week, we had Inspector General 
Ron Russo testify in front of our Oversight Subcommittee in the 
House Administration Committee, and he shared with us that some 
of the Inspector General's recommendations had been designated 
as closed, even though there had been some internal 
modification to what exactly was changed, or improved, or 
implemented.
    We have heard and have been tracking closely in this 
Committee the progress of those changes, implementation of the 
Inspector General's recommendations, and of course our shared 
interest in ensuring that we are equipping and implementing the 
best practices that we can identify for our Capitol Police.
    Inspector General Russo stated that some of these 
recommendations may have been essentially marked and reported 
as completed because they were moving in the right direction, 
and they met the spirit of the recommendation. In essence, the 
recommendation itself, the thing that needed to be fixed or was 
recommended to be fixed had been altered in some way, but 
nonetheless marked as closed.
    While we certainly appreciate the Capitol Police's 
Inspector General bringing this to our attention, we want to be 
sure that we understand a little bit more about those 
modifications and that process.
    General Gibson, I would like to start with you. Are you 
familiar with these Inspector General reports and the 
recommendations in them?
    Ms. Gibson. Yes, we are familiar with the IG's reports as 
he publishes them and the recommendations. I would say the IG's 
decision as to whether or not to close a recommendation, and 
whether or not is because it was fully met or a compensatory 
control has been applied, is his decision not the Board's 
decision or the Chief's decision.
    Ms. Lee. Where a modification of any type is made, is that 
indicated, is that reported back to the Board as something that 
was changed or modified?
    Ms. Gibson. This is something that Mr. McFarland mentioned 
previously, where we have recently become aware that Mr. Russo, 
like his predecessor, has applied at times compensatory 
controls.
    Mr. Russo has made a commitment to keep us informed when 
this occurs. We have quarterly updates at formal board meetings 
with the IG, and that is an ideal forum for us to discuss that 
and

[[Page 33]]

better understand his rationale, particularly in those places 
where he has applied some kind of compensatory control in his 
decision to close that.
    Ms. Lee. Are you concerned--with his commitment to continue 
to keep you all informed in mind, are you concerned about the 
concept of compensatory controls and deviations from the actual 
recommendations that are made by the Inspector General?
    Ms. Gibson. I think the concept of compensatory controls is 
not in itself disturbing. It is a practice that is applied by 
other IGs at times. I am not yet concerned about the 
compensatory controls that Mr. Russo may have applied in 
making--in his decisions to close them, but certainly it is 
something that we will want to continue to look like--look at 
in our shared interest in that aspect of oversight.
    Ms. Lee. As part of your oversight role, will you all be 
making an assessment, an independent assessment essentially, of 
whether you think any modification, any compensatory control is 
still done in a way that truly does meet that objective, the 
objective of the recommendation in the first place?
    Ms. Gibson. It is a hypothetical, but certainly our IG 
Working Group that is working closely to dig into the details 
of those reports, I would expect them to bring that to our 
attention, should they find such an instance.
    Ms. Lee. All right. Chief Manger, anything that you would 
add on this subject and how you view this from an operational 
perspective?
    Mr. Manger. We very carefully document our actions, the 
IG's response to our actions, and it is logged in and it is 
available to this Committee, to the Board, and it gives 
specific detail about what actions we have taken.
    If I want to--say for the record that we are not changing 
the target--I mean, we are complying with the recommendation, 
and it is solely the IG's decision whether to close it or not. 
It is all documented.
    Ms. Lee. All right. Thank you, Chief. Mr. Chairman, I yield 
back.
    Mr. Steil. The gentlewoman yields back. Mr. Loudermilk is 
recognized for five minutes.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 
being here. General Gibson, I agree with something you said in 
your opening statement. I do think the Board made a wise choice 
in selecting Chief Manger. I think he was an excellent choice 
and has done a lot to improve the security.
    Something else you said, though, was, yes, I agree that the 
Capitol is more secure than it was on January the 6th. The 
question is, is it as secure as it needs to be? That is what my 
subcommittee is trying to get to, to identify the failures of 
January 6th, which unfortunately, the Select Committee did not 
look at.
    Identify those to make sure that they are corrected so the 
general populace and the people that visit the Capitol can feel 
that, yes, it is as secure as it needs to be. I am also--I am 
going to ask some questions about January 6th, understanding 
none of you were in your capacity or in your current job at 
that time.
    But as your capacity, in your current position that you can 
answer those. There was a 2003 directive of the Metropolitan 
Police

[[Page 34]]

that prohibits their officers from being on Capitol Hill 
property without explicit approval from the Capitol Police 
Board.
    Ms. Gibson, in your position as Chair of the Board, I am 
going to ask you this. Do you know, are there any preexisting 
agreements between Capitol Police and Metropolitan Police that 
allow them on campus without prior board approval?
    Ms. Gibson. Well, there are memorandums of agreement 
between the Department and the Metropolitan Police, and there 
are instances in which they can come without the approval of 
the Board, and specifically the legislation, which I 
appreciate, from 2021 that allows the Chief to declare an 
emergency and call for that kind of external support without 
having to convene the Capitol Police Board for decision and 
discussion.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you. Do you know, were there any 
preexisting agreements in place on or before January 6th that 
also allows that?
    Ms. Gibson. Mr. Loudermilk, I will be honest, I am very 
focused on improving the security of the Capitol today and 
moving forward. Things that occurred well before my tenure are 
not things that I have been focused on. I am afraid I do not 
have that answer.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Mr. McFarland, do you know if that was in 
existent on January 6th, any previous agreements?
    Mr. McFarland. Sorry, I do not know.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Chief Manger?
    Mr. Manger. I do not know either.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. If it is possible, if somebody could 
look, that is very important for us. General Gibson, do you 
know, has there ever been a time that undercover agents, either 
Federal or local, operated on the United States Capitol complex 
without Capitol Police Board approval or in compliance with 
some other agreement?
    Ms. Gibson. I am not aware of that occurring in my tenure 
on the Capitol Police Board.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. Thank you. Chief Manger, I am not 
going to ask any questions about separation agreements, so I 
think that one is done for now. Who is Julie Farnam? Who is 
Julie Farnam?
    Mr. Manger. She was a former employee who was the Deputy 
Director of our--or our supervisor in our intelligence section.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. She is no longer working in the 
Department?
    Mr. Manger. That is correct.
    Mr. Loudermilk. When she was here, was she working on a 
book while she was employed with the Capitol Police?
    Mr. Manger. I know she has written a book. I do not know 
when she--if she wrote it while she was here or after she left.
    Mr. Loudermilk. When was her last day as a Capitol Police 
employee?
    Mr. Manger. I can get back to you with that. But it has 
been a couple of months at least.
    Mr. Loudermilk. If you will, I would appreciate that. Have 
you ever seen a copy or a draft of the manuscript?
    Mr. Manger. I know that two of my staff have reviewed the 
book.

[[Page 35]]

    Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. Mr. McFarland, have you ever seen a 
copy or a draft of that?
    Mr. McFarland. Yes, we have a copy for security review.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. Same, Ms. Gibson.
    Ms. Gibson. Yes. My staff has also reviewed to make 
security redactions of sensitive security information.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Ms. Rexroat?
    Ms. Rexroat. I have not----
    Mr. Loudermilk. You have not. I am taking it that the 
review was for security sensitivity. General Gibson, who is 
Jennifer Hemingway?
    Ms. Gibson. Jennifer Hemingway is the Chief of Staff of the 
Senate Sergeant at Arms.
    Mr. Loudermilk. What was her role on January 7, 2021?
    Ms. Gibson. I believe at some point on that day, she 
probably became the Acting Sergeant at Arms.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. Yes, she was. Are you aware that on 
January 7th, as her role as Acting Senate Sergeant at Arms, she 
called Ms. Pittman, Assistant Chief Pittman, and offered her 
the role as Acting Chief of Police?
    Ms. Gibson. I have no knowledge of anything that happened 
on January 7th.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Have you ever discussed that with her?
    Ms. Gibson. No, I have not.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Do you know if the Capitol Police have any 
records of this communication?
    Ms. Gibson. No, I have no records of anything on January 
7th.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. Do you know if the Capitol Police has 
any records of the hiring of Ms. Pittman or Chief Manger?
    Ms. Gibson. Oh, I know we have copies of the hiring of 
Chief Manger. I was intimately involved in that action.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. Unfortunately, I see I am out of 
time, and I yield back. I will submit the rest of my questions 
for the record.
    Mr. Steil. The gentleman yields back. Mr. D'Esposito is 
recognized for five minutes.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you, Chairman. I thank you all for 
being here. I am going to start first, I am a proud retired New 
York City detective, so I am going to start with the police 
stuff first and talk like a cop.
    Chief, I know that you mentioned in some of your remarks 
the most serious issue that we are facing is staffing. 
Obviously throughout this country, staffing in law enforcement 
agencies is a problem, and it is a problem because cops are 
treated so poorly, whether it is by Administrations, whether it 
is by the people that they serve, whether it is so-called 
leaders and elected officials.
    What are you doing to make sure that we are getting the 
best and the brightest here in the Capitol Police Force?
    Mr. Manger. Our recruitment efforts through social media, 
and I think it is the way we, for lack of a better term, the 
way we market this position. This, as you know, is a different 
kind of police department. It is a very unique police 
department.
    Our mission is unique around the country. There are--we are 
appealing to folks who want to serve their country, who want to 
work

[[Page 36]]

in Federal law enforcement, that do not necessarily want to be 
transferred all over the country, like most other Federal law 
enforcement agencies.
    We have--this strategy has been very successful in terms of 
attracting good quality folks.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Okay. I am going to talk fast like a true 
New Yorker, so, to try to get through this. You also mentioned 
in your remarks leap pay, and you specifically mentioned leap 
pay to DPD.
    Now, why wouldn't we include all members of service in the 
leap pay? I mean, just speaking as a cop and not as a Member of 
Congress, I think that if we are going to implement programs 
like that for members of service and some not others, I think 
the morale would be destroyed in the Department.
    Mr. Manger. We are just trying to mirror what the other 
1811 series Special Agents have, and we are just trying to 
mirror that for our folks.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Okay.
    Mr. Manger. We can certainly discuss expanding it.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Okay. At the Inspector General oversight 
hearing last week, Capitol Police Inspector General stated that 
he supported the United States Capitol Police implementing 
specific whistleblower protections. Ms. Rexroat, do you agree 
that the United States Capitol Police should implement specific 
whistleblower protections?
    Ms. Rexroat. I am not sure about the Capitol Police, sir, 
but I know that for whistleblower protection, just in general, 
I would be an advocate of that.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Okay. Mr. McFarland, do you agree?
    Mr. McFarland. Yes, I agree.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Ms. Gibson, do you agree?
    Ms. Gibson. Absolutely. Whistleblowers must be protected 
and cannot be retaliated against.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Chief, since you appeared before our 
Committee weeks ago, months ago, have you implemented specific 
whistleblower protections?
    Mr. Manger. There are regulations that prohibit 
discrimination and harassment of employees that I think can be 
used to ensure the protection of whistleblowers.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Okay. Will you commit to expand on them by 
the end of the year? It is one of the most serious issues that 
we are talking about as a Committee. I think that what is 
already in place needs to be expanded.
    Mr. Manger. Whistleblowers should be protected. True 
whistleblowers should be protected.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Will you commit to work with us by the end 
of the year to expand?
    Mr. Manger. I can certainly work with the Committees on it, 
absolutely.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Ms. Gibson, why hasn't the Capitol Police 
Board directed the United States Capitol Police to implement 
specific whistleblower protections?
    Ms. Gibson. The Capitol--I absolutely support whistleblower 
protections. It is essential to ensuring there is an 
environment in which an employee who might discover waste, 
fraud, and abuse

[[Page 37]]

would feel free and safe and secure in bringing that to 
someone's attention.
    Certainly, the Board can--I think perhaps the best avenue 
might be to ask the IG to look at the whistleblower protection 
program and assess its adequacy.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Okay. I look forward to working with the 
Chairman and Ranking Member to get some answers on that. Ms. 
Gibson, I also want to thank you for providing the Committee on 
House Administration with a copy of the Board Manual of 
Procedures.
    Is it correct that this manual was not made available to 
oversight entities until your arrival as the Senate Sergeant at 
Arms?
    Ms. Gibson. I believe that is correct, but I do not know 
for sure what happened before I got here.
    Mr. D'Esposito. It seems important that the men and women 
in the rank and file of the United States Capitol Police have 
access to these regulations as well. When will you make a copy 
of the relevant sections of the manual available to all 
personnel in the Capitol Police?
    Ms. Gibson. That is certainly an important consideration. 
What I would like to do is consult with my colleagues and our 
oversight entities to develop a more fulsome response.
    Mr. D'Esposito. I know I only have a few seconds left, but 
back in the NYPD, we have something that is called a patrol 
guide. Chief Manger, does the United States Capitol Police have 
a policy in place in their guide that governs the use of social 
media applications, or I should say communication applications 
like WhatsApp, Signal, or other messaging apps?
    Mr. Manger. We have a social media policy.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Okay. Are messaging apps involved in there?
    Mr. Manger. I know that they are mentioned. I cannot tell 
you more specific----
    Mr. D'Esposito. Do you know that these, or are you aware 
that these applications are currently in use by the United 
States Capitol Police?
    Mr. Manger. It would not surprise me.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Okay. Have you ever used WhatsApp in your 
official capacity?
    Mr. Manger. I have not.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Okay. Just--my time has expired. I yield 
back.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. Next up, Senator Cruz.
    Senator Cruz. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to each of 
you for being here. Thank you for the service each of you 
provides. I want to take a minute in particular, Chief, to 
thank the men and women of the Capitol Police.
    In Texas and all across the country, I view a big part of 
my job as supporting the men and women of law enforcement. I am 
grateful for the courage of the men and women of the Capitol 
Police and police officers all across our Nation who risk their 
lives to keep--keep Americans safe.
    I want to ask you, Chief, first of all, about your 
assessment of the current morale in the Capitol Police and the 
state of readiness of the Capitol Police to protect against the 
threats we are facing.

[[Page 38]]

    Mr. Manger. I think morale is always in the eye of the 
beholder. I think it has improved since January 6th. There are 
still--we are still at a point staffing wise where we are 
holding people over. We are canceling days off. This is a--has 
a big impact on morale.
    We have a ways to go. But I think that the cops understand 
that things are better than they were, and they are improving. 
I assure you that our state of readiness is good.
    There is still work to be done, but I have great confidence 
in the men and women of this Department that they have the 
training, the courage, the equipment, and we, as in leadership, 
have good plans in place to ensure the safety of this campus.
    Senator Cruz. Well, I will tell you one concern that I 
have, and it is a growing concern, which is the rise of threats 
that are directed against lawmakers, and lawmakers of both 
parties. We have seen an explosion of threats of violence 
against Members of both parties.
    According to CBS News, Capitol Police investigated 7,500 
cases of potential threats against lawmakers in 2022 alone. 
That is nearly double what the number of threats were in 2017. 
We have also seen multiple instances, whether it was the 
horrific shooting at the congressional baseball game where you 
had a deranged lunatic who came with the explicit objective of 
murdering Republican Members of Congress.
    It is only because of Steve Scalise's Capitol Police detail 
that happened to be there, that that deranged lunatic was 
stopped and killed. Had Congressman Scalise been late that 
morning, had he decided to take his kids to school that morning 
instead of going to the congressional baseball practice--there 
was no one else there that had a detail.
    Had Steve Scalise not been there that morning, the outcome 
of that morning likely would have been two dead Senators and a 
dozen or more dead House Members shot defensively in a bullpen 
in Northern Virginia. We have seen instances escalating from 
there, including, we had a Member of Congress attacked in the 
elevator of her apartment building.
    We had tragically a Senate staffer repeatedly stabbed in 
broad daylight here in Washington, DC, just a couple of blocks 
from this hearing room. I am very concerned with this rising 
level of threats, and I fear we are going to wake up one day 
and somebody is going to be killed. On either side of the 
aisle, the number of lunatics who are seeking to do harm is 
growing.
    I want to ask you, what is your view of what needs to be 
done to prevent that? To ensure that we can protect the safety 
of lawmakers on both sides of the aisle in both houses from the 
growing and serious threats of violence, and specific violence 
targeting individual Members.
    Mr. Manger. The first step is for our intelligence bureau, 
which has been greatly expanded, to continue to be proactive in 
scrubbing social media to try and locate these threats. Many of 
these threats, and you know this Senator, come back, we 
actually get them from the staffs of the Members.
    But we also are able to pick some of these up early so that 
we can mitigate them as quickly as possible. You know, in my 
budget, I have requested additional investigative agents 
because of the

[[Page 39]]

caseload. Five hundred cases per year, per investigator, which 
is just unmanageable, and we need to do better than that.
    We also are working with state and local police departments 
all around the country to assist us in ensuring protection for 
Members at events when they are in their home districts. But we 
have got to continue to--and I know we are short on time. We 
need to do a better job at protecting Members when they are 
home, their families, and----
    Senator Cruz. Obviously, we have the tragic attack of Nancy 
Pelosi's husband at home and all of our families are at risk.
    Mr. Manger. We had a Congressman whose staff was attacked 
by a baseball bat wielding man just a couple of months ago. We 
have got to make sure that we have got security measures in 
place in home district offices, in homes, so that it raises 
everybody's level of scrutiny.
    Senator Cruz. I am working in a bipartisan way with 
Chairwoman Klobuchar, who is very concerned about this issue as 
well. We are working on a Member Protection Act that would help 
enhance resources available to keep Members and our families 
safe.
    I hope with each of you here that you will work with us to 
try to address this problem so that we can address it 
proactively on the front end, rather than being confronted with 
tragedy on the back end.
    Mr. Manger. We are committed to do that, sir.
    Senator Cruz. Thank you.
    Mr. Steil. For purposes--does gentlemen seek recognition?
    Mr. Loudermilk. Mr. Chairman, I seek unanimous consent to 
submit for the record a bulletin from the Capitol Police Board 
dated January 8, 2021, appointing Ms. Yogananda Pittman as 
Acting Chief of Police signed by Ms. Jennifer Hemmingway, 
Acting Chairman of the Police Board, Paul Irving, member of the 
Police Board, and Brent Brannon, member of the Capitol Police 
Board.
    Mr. Steil. Without objection.
    [The information referred to was submitted for the record.]
    Mr. Loudermilk. I also request unanimous consent to submit 
for the record the testimony of Paul Irving, dated February 23, 
2021, to the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and 
Government Affairs, where he testified that he resigned his 
position effective January 7th. He resigned as House Sergeant 
at Arms effective January 7, 2021, a day before he signed the 
appointment of Ms. Yogananda Pittman.
    Mr. Steil. Without objection.
    [The information referred to was submitted for the record.]
    Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, I yield back.
    Mr. Steil. For their own purposes, does the Ranking Member 
seek recognition?
    Mr. Morelle. Yes, thank you. Mr. Chair, I would like to ask 
unanimous consent to enter into the record the following 
transcribed interview transcripts from the January 6th House 
Select Committee. Two transcripts of former House Sergeant at 
Arms, the Commanding General of the DC National Guard, General 
William Walker's interviews with Select Committee dated 
December 13, 2021, and April 21, 2022, respectively. The 
transcript of Acting As

[[Page 40]]

sistant Chief of the Capitol Police Sean Gallagher's interview 
with the Select Committee dated January 11, 2022.
    A transcript of former Acting Police Chief Pittman's 
interview with the Select Committee dated January 13, 2022. 
Transcript of former House Sergeant at Arms, Paul Irving's 
interview with the Select Committee, dated March 4, 2022.
    The transcript of former Police Chief Steven Sund's 
interview with the Select Committee, dated April 20, 2022. I 
also ask unanimous consent to enter into the record Appendix 
two of the final report of the January 6th House Select 
Committee entitled, DC National Guard preparation for and 
response to January 6th. I ask unanimous consent to insert into 
the record the following news articles.
    An article from the Associated Press, dated July 23, 2021, 
entitled, Pelosi Did Not Block the National Guard from the 
Capitol on January 6th. An article on the Washington Post, 
dated July 28, 2021, entitled, The False GOP Claim that Pelosi 
Turned Down the National Guard before January 6th Attack. An 
article in the New York Times, dated July 27, 2021, entitled, 
Republicans Are Blaming Nancy Pelosi for the January 6th 
Attack, Their Claims Don't Add Up.
    Finally, an article from CNN dated July 21st, 2021, 
entitled, Fact Checking Representative Jordan's Claim That 
Speaker Pelosi Was Responsible United States Capitol Security 
and January 6th.
    Mr. Steil. Without objection.
    [The information referred to was submitted for the record.]
    Mr. Steil. As we wrap up, I just want to say thank you to 
our witnesses. Thank you for what you do to keep the Capitol 
safe, the visitors of the Capitol safe, and those that work 
here safe. It is not an easy task.
    Thank you for those of you who you work with, in particular 
the men and women of the Capitol Police, who every day wake up 
with a badge over their heart and walk out the door, knowing 
they are going to answer the call to protect this institution, 
to protect our visitors and those that work here.
    We thank them for their service, and we thank you all for 
being here in a bicameral, bipartisan conversation about 
protecting this institution.
    Chairwoman Klobuchar. All right. Well, thank you very much, 
Chairman Steil. To also Senator Fischer and, of course, Ranking 
Member Morelle. This has been a thorough hearing and pretty 
good for the first one since 1945. That was a little 
intimidating on its own. I want to thank our witnesses. I want 
to thank all of you for the work you do to adapt and modernize 
to address our current and future challenges.
    I want to thank you, Chief Manger, for all you have done in 
recruiting and retaining officers and responding to so many 
Members' concerns on a daily basis, and always, far as I can 
see, keeping your cool. The hearing record will remain open for 
one week. Again, we all thank our Capitol Police, and this has 
been a productive hearing. Thank you. We are adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 5:52 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]


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                      APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

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