[Senate Hearing 118-179] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] S. Hrg. 118-179 MODERN SCAMS: HOW SCAMMERS ARE USING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND HOW WE CAN FIGHT BACK ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING UNITED STATES SENATE ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ WASHINGTON, DC __________ NOVEMBER 16, 2023 __________ Serial No. 118-11 Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov ______ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 54-250 PDF WASHINGTON : 2024 SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania, Chairman KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York MIKE BRAUN, Indiana RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut TIM SCOTT, South Carolina ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts MARCO RUBIO, Florida MARK KELLY, Arizona RICK SCOTT, Florida RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia J.D. VANCE, Ohio JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska ---------- Elizabeth Letter, Majority Staff Director Matthew Sommer, Minority Staff Director C O N T E N T S ---------- Page Opening Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman...... 1 Opening Statement of Senator Mike Braun, Ranking Member.......... 4 PANEL OF WITNESSES Gary Schildhorn, JD, Attorney and Intended Scam Victim, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania..................................... 5 Tom Romanoff, Director of the Technology Project, Bipartisan Policy Center, Washington, D.C................................. 7 Steve Weisman, JD, Scam Expert, Editor of Scamicide.com, Senior Lecturer, Bentley University, Waltham, Massachusetts........... 8 Tahir Ekin, Ph.D, Professor and Director of the Center for Analytics and Data Science, Texas State University, San Marcos, Texas.......................................................... 10 CLOSING STATEMENT Closing Statement of Senator Mike Braun, Ranking Member.......... 28 APPENDIX Prepared Witness Statements Gary Schildhorn, JD, Attorney and Intended Scam Victim, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania..................................... 33 Tom Romanoff, Director of the Technology Project, Bipartisan Policy Center, Washington, D.C................................. 36 Steve Weisman, JD, Scam Expert, Editor of Scamicide.com, Senior Lecturer, Bentley University, Waltham, Massachusetts........... 41 Tahir Ekin, Ph.D, Professor and Director of the Center for Analytics and Data Science, Texas State University, San Marcos, Texas.......................................................... 51 Questions for the Record Gary Schildhorn, JD, Attorney and Intended Scam Victim, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania..................................... 59 Tom Romanoff, Director of the Technology Project, Bipartisan Policy Center, Washington, D.C................................. 60 Steve Weisman, JD, Scam Expert, Editor of Scamicide.com, Senior Lecturer, Bentley University, Waltham, Massachusetts........... 66 Statements for the Record Statement of Hoda Hcidari........................................ 75 Statement of Dr. Shomir Wilson................................... 80 Statement of Gail S. Ennis....................................... 85 ................................................................. MODERN SCAMS: HOW SCAMMERS ARE USING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND HOW WE CAN FIGHT BACK ---------- Thursday, November 16, 2023 U.S. Senate Special Committee on Aging Washington, DC. The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., Room 106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman of the Committee, presiding. Present: Senator Casey, Gillibrand, Blumenthal, Warren, Kelly, Braun, and Rick Scott. OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., CHAIRMAN The Chairman. The Senate Special Committee on Aging will come to order. We want to thank everyone for being here this morning. Welcome to the Special Committee on Aging's 10th hearing of the 118th Congress. Today's hearing is entitled, "Modern Scams, How Scammers are Using Artificial Intelligence and How We Can Fight Back." We are here today to discuss fraud and scams, an issue that has touched millions of American families, including, of course, older adults. In 2022, frauds and scams cost Americans $9 billion, a 30 percent increase from just one year before. Older Americans lose more money to scams on average than younger adults. Last year, they reported losing more than $1.6 billion to fraud, though the actual losses can be as high as $48 billion. It has long been an Aging Committee priority to protect older adults from fraud and from scams. Today, we are releasing the Committee's 8th annual fraud book. This critical resource captures the most common scams targeting older adults in 2022 and offers resources to protect against fraud. Here is the book, and here is the Spanish version of the book. We are very proud of the work that goes into this, the staff work by members of the staff on both sides of the Aging Committee, both majority and minority staff. This year, the Committee's work is, among other things, focused on exploring a new threat related to scams. Of course, that is what we know is AI, artificial intelligence. By now, we have all likely heard of what artificial intelligence is all about, and we have also heard of generative AI, a nascent, vast and opaque tool that many Americans don't fully understand. I would include in that the work that the Senate is doing. Member, individual members of the Senate, both parties are trying our best to understand artificial intelligence and especially generative artificial intelligence. We are learning as well, and at the same time as the Nation is learning. While we are working to understand the potential applications of AI, scammers have been integrating it into their schemes to make their employees more lifelike and convincing. Deepfakes or AI developed images that look nearly identical to a real life person and voice clones can mimic the voice of a loved one and can easily dupe consumers and businesses into giving away valuable personal information or money. Any consumer of any age can fall victim to these highly convincing scams. In preparation for today's hearing, my staff spoke to numerous people around the country who were scammed or nearly scammed by these bad actors using AI. These stories are heartbreaking, with victim after victim expressing reactions of fear, despair, disbelief, and anger. One of our witnesses will share his story today, Gary Schildhorn. Gary is from Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, just outside of Philadelphia in the Southeastern corner of our State. Gary will talk about, despite knowing all the signs, talk about his situation of nearly losing $9,000 to a scammer after he heard a voice clone of his son on the other line pleading for help. Gary, I want to thank you for being here today and for telling your story. We will also have a chance to hear from six other people today who are willing to share their stories. The following will appear in a video, Jennifer DeStefano from the State of Arizona, Amy Conley from the State of New York, Janis Creason from the State of Pennsylvania, Dauphin County, right in the middle of our State, and Terry and Elva Holtzapple and their neighbor, Jake Rothermel, from Potter County, Pennsylvania, way up on the Northern border, the New York border of Pennsylvania. We will share some of their experiences today and more of their stories will be available on the Aging Committee's website. These stories are awfully hard to hear, and they are tragic. I know that as a parent, I would feel the same fear and the same need to react or act if I heard about--I heard the voice of one of my daughters or something that happened to them, or my grandchildren on the other end of the phone begging for assistance. Any one of us would react in the ways that the testimony today will outline. This is something we all have to be more aware of, so with that, we are grateful you are here today, but we will play this video clip first, and then I will turn to ranking member Braun. [Video playing.] Female Speaker. Immediately heard, Mom, I have been in an automobile accident. I have been in an accident. Female Speaker. Immediately I heard sirens and my daughter's voice, and she said in a crying voice, mom, I got in an accident. Male Speaker. My daughter was--how--she was crying on the phone. I mean, profusely crying and saying, mom, mom, mom, and of course, my wife was saying, Leanne, Leanne, what is the matter? Leanne, Leanne, and then she repeated it again, mom, mom, mom, and it was--it sounded exactly like her. Female Speaker. I answered the phone, and it was my 15 year old daughter crying and sobbing saying, mom, mom, mom, help me. These bad men have me. Help me. Help me. Help me. Female Speaker. Someone called posing as someone from law enforcement--the court system, I would say someone in the court system, and explained to me what had happened, that my daughter had been charged, what the next steps were, and said that they could get her into a program that would ensure she did not get points on her record, that she would not be charged, and said there would be some cost involved to it. Female Speaker. The phone rang right away, and it was someone who said they were from the probation agency and that it would be $15,000 to get her out of jail. Male Speaker. It wasn't very long, a public defender called. She said, she is going to be charged and she is going to go to jail. She said, but you can post bail for her if you want to, and she won't go to jail. We said, well, how much is the bail? She said, it is $15,000. Female Speaker. He started to demand $1 million. That was impossible. Then he got really angry with me about that, so then he came up with $50,000. Male Speaker. There was something subconscious about this incident that I believe resonated with them, that things were not all on the up and up. Female Speaker. As I was ready to get in the car, actually to head to the bank and get out money to send with the courier, honestly, I just put my head down in the car and just said a prayer. Out of the blue, it was just like, it is a scam. Female Speaker. She sent a picture of herself at home smiling, saying, I am fine, so at that point, I knew it was a scam. Male Speaker. Jake called us back. He found out all the information. I was on the phone with him, and Elba was on the phone with Leanne, and Jake said, it is a scam. Female Speaker. Then finally, the mom who was with my daughter, Aubrey, was able to get my husband on the phone who was able to locate my older daughter, Bree. I demanded that I talk to her to make sure that was really her. I started asking her questions, and she is just, mom, I have no idea what is going on. I am here with Dad, and at that point, then that is when I knew that this was a scam. Female Speaker. It is the worst feeling a parent can have. Female Speaker. It has rattled us for sure. Female Speaker. I was devastated when I heard it. I was upset. I had tears. Female Speaker. I could hear in the background pleading and crying and begging for my help, and then that is when I got really scared. Male Speaker. Scammers are going to basically play on one thing, and that is on the heartstrings of particularly family members, because when it comes to family, we will do anything for our families. [End of video.] The Chairman. Well, you heard it all there. That is what we are dealing with here, and real people in real lives. Ranking Member Braun. OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MIKE BRAUN, RANKING MEMBER Senator Braun. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What we just listened to there, it is going to get worse because we are at the leading edge of this technology, and it has always amazed me in running a business for as long as I did, and when we embraced technology 15 to 20 years ago, and it became such an important part of running a profitable, efficient logistics and distribution business, but constantly you have got folks out there through credit card scams, you name it. They are after everyone, and it amazes me how broad it is. Now you see what happened here. I think the main takeaway is that AI obviously can be used for that. It also may be the tool that you can use against it. That is kind of the conundrum. We just need to figure it out. Private sector has been using AI, I think beneficially, for a long time. Dates back into the 90's. It is important I think the Government embraces the technology so it understands it, so that we can come up with some paradigm that is in place to help folks like we just listened to. I am going to be introducing the Medicare Transaction Fraud Prevention Act, which will be very simply for all the fraud that comes around it using the same tools credit card companies have used for a long time, and you have all been part of that, where somehow they get your credit card number. They do a great job at it. In most cases, the fraud does not occur. There is no reason we wouldn't want to, minimally at least, mimic that. It is going to target two particular areas, diagnostic testing and durable medical equipment. That is another way you can scam--and here you are involving the Government, and these are generally expensive items, medically speaking. What this would do is notify beneficiaries in real time with suspicious activity. While some of my colleagues have called for a heavy handed Federal approach to AI, I am very concerned that we don't smother it because it is already out there, and the malfeasance is ahead of maybe the good results that can come from it. I am proud to be part of this hearing. It is very important that we keep this in the discussion mode. Be sure that we don't smother the technology because it is already out there, and if we do not embrace it, we will not be able to counter the ill effects out there. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Braun. I will start our witness introductions. I will do three, and then I will turn to Ranking Member Braun for our fourth witness. Our first witness, as I mentioned in my opening, Gary Schildhorn, and Gary, I want to thank you for being here, for telling your story. Gary is a lawyer in Philadelphia. He specializes in corporate law, including corporate fraud. He will share his experience with a bad actor, and that is a terrible understatement, who used his son's voice to try to scam him out of thousands of dollars, something no parent, no family member wants to endure. Gary, thank you for being here with us today and for sharing your story. Our second witness is Tom Romanoff. Tom is the Director of the Technology Project at the Bipartisan Policy Center. He has previously led IT initiatives, etcetera, for several Federal agencies and explained the impact of new technology on Government operations. He will discuss how AI is being used to make fraud and scams both more sophisticated and harder to detect. Mr. Romanoff, thank you for being with us today and bringing your expertise. Our third witness is Steve Weisman, a Professor, Attorney, and an expert in scams, identity theft, and cyber security. Mr. Weisman has dedicated his career to educating consumers on how to safeguard against fraud and scams. Thank you for being here and for sharing your expertise with us. I will now turn to Ranking Member Braun. Senator Braun. My pleasure to introduce Dr. Tahir Ekin. He is the Field Chair in Business Analytics and Professor of Information Systems at Texas State University. His book, "Statistics and Health Care Fraud, How to Save Billions," covers fraud prevention strategy and many of the trends that will be discussed here today. Thank you for coming here to testify for us. The Chairman. Thanks, Ranking Member Braun. We will turn to our first witness, Gary Schildhorn. STATEMENT OF GARY SCHILDHORN, JD, ATTORNEY AND INTENDED SCAM VICTIM, PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA Mr. Schildhorn. Thank you, Chairman Casey, Ranking Member Braun, for inviting me to this hearing. I hope my testimony is useful. As you mentioned, I am a practicing attorney in Philadelphia, and I was the intended victim of a scam using my son's voice, and here is the story. I was on my way to work. My phone rang. It was my son. He was crying. He said, dad, I was in an accident. I hit another car being driven by a pregnant woman. My nose is broken. They arrested me. I am in jail. They assigned a public defender to me. His name is Barry Goldstein. You need to call him. You have to get me out of here. Help me. I said Brett, I will call him, and I will call you right back. He said, you can't. They took my phone. Help me, dad. I am a father. I am a lawyer. My son is in trouble. A pregnant woman was hurt. He is in jail. I am in action mode. Before I could do anything, my phone rings again. It is Barry Goldstein. I just met with your son. He is hurt. He has a broken nose, but he will be okay. He hit a car being driven by a pregnant woman. She was taken to the hospital. They arrested your son because he failed the breathalyzer test at the accident scene. I said, wait, my son would never drink and drive. He said Brett told him that, but he had an energy drink that morning and that may have caused the failed test. He said I should take some steps if I wanted to, to bail my son out. I said, of course I want to do that. He said, well, I will give you the phone number for the courtroom, courthouse, and here is your son's case number. You should call the courthouse and bail him out. I immediately called the courthouse. They answered correctly. I tell them why I am calling. They said, what is your son's name? They asked for the case number. They said, yes, your son is here. Bail was set at $90,000. You need to post 10 percent, $9,000 to bail him out, but there is a problem. I said, what is the problem? The county bail bondsman was away on a family emergency, and he is not available. He said, but there is a solution. You can post what they called an attorney's bond. I said, I am an attorney. He said, yes, but you haven't entered your appearance on behalf of your son. There is a Mr. Goldstein that did that. You should perhaps call him back and try to get him to post the attorney's bond. I hang up. I call Mr. Goldstein back. Mr. Goldstein, can you post the bond for my son? Yes. You need to wire me $9,000. He said I am a member of a credit union, so you need to take the cash to a certain kiosk, which will get the money to me, and I am scheduled to leave for a conference in California. I will be leaving to the airport in two hours, so you need to move quickly. I learned later that that kiosk was a Bitcoin kiosk that would convert the money to cryptocurrency. I hang up. All of these calls happened in two minutes. This is the first time I had a chance to think. I called my daughter-in-law and suggested that she call work and tell them that my son wasn't going to make it today because he was in an accident. A few minutes later, Facetime call from my son. He is pointing to his nose. He goes, my nose is fine. I am fine. You are being scammed. I sat there in my car. I was physically affected by that. I was--it was shock and anger and relief. I decided that I would try to keep Mr. Goldstein engaged in the scam while I invited law enforcement to become involved. I contacted the Philadelphia police and they said because I had not lost the money, they couldn't help me. I called the local FBI office. They said, look, there is burner phones and cryptocurrency. They are aware of this scam, and that they were unable to bring back cryptocurrency once it was out of the country or wherever it went, and so they were unwilling to get involved, and that left me fairly frustrated because I had been involved in consumer fraud cases in my career and I almost fell for this. The only thing I thought I could then do was to warn people. I approached the Philadelphia Inquirer and they did a feature story, and Fox News ran a segment on their morning show. The scam hasn't abated. Since that article came out, I have received 20 to 25 calls throughout the country of people who have been contacted by Barry Goldstein and who had lost money, and they were devastated. I mean, they are emotionally and physically hurt. They almost were calling to get a phone call hug because they were so upset. They asked me, you know, what could I recommend? I said, look, the--do what I did. Go public. The other suggestion I had was to go to the bank where they bank and suggest the tellers inquire about anyone that's taking out a lot of cash that doesn't usually do that. That was the only thing I could come up with. The cryptocurrency and AI have provided a riskless avenue for fraudsters to take advantage of all of us. They have no risk of exposure. I know that there is economic benefit to cryptocurrency, but I also know that it causes substantial harm to society, and financial harm. To me, you know, it is fundamental if we are harmed by somebody, there is a remedy either through the legal system or through law enforcement. In this case, there is no remedy, and that fundamental basis is broken, and I hope that this committee could do something about that. Thank you. The Chairman. Well, Gary, thanks very much for telling your story. It will help us better be prepared in helping others. Mr. Romanoff, you may begin your opening statement. STATEMENT OF TOM ROMANOFF, DIRECTOR OF THE TECHNOLOGY PROJECT, BIPARTISAN POLICY CENTER, WASHINGTON, D.C. Mr. Romanoff. Thank you, Chairman Casey and Ranking Member Braun for having me today. It is an honor to be here. Thank you, Gary, for sharing your story with us today. I am Tom Romanoff. I am the Director of the Technology Project at Bipartisan Policy Center, where we focus on bipartisan solutions for the technology sector. We started this work in 2019 when we formulated the AI National Strategy with representatives Will Hurd and Robin Kelly. The strategy passed as 1250, House Resolution 1250, alongside seven other bipartisan sponsors. Prior to my role at the Bipartisan Policy Center, as you mentioned, I advised C- suite executives on emerging technologies and policy, and included in my clients were the Office of Management and Budget, the FDA, General Services, among many others. There are a lot of questions about what this technology can do and what it cannot do, so I want to first level set about generative AI. First, we are speaking about a very specific type of AI. There are six other disciplines, all of which profoundly impact our world. We are seeing exponential growth across all of those disciplines and branches of AI. Second, many of the ideas we are discussing today predate AI's current use and current capacity. The use of AI to amplify these crimes is concerning as we already know the challenges in stemming scams and frauds were difficult before the capability of AI was brought to bear. Third, last year, publicly available generative AI programs got so good at--that most people could not tell the difference between computer generated content and human generated content. With the recent capacity enhancements and this technology's availability, cybercriminals are increasingly adopting it. Generative AI specifically poses some questions because it has compounding effects beyond what we have seen to date. Number one, it makes it easier, cheaper, and faster for scammers to produce deceptive content, and number two, the increasing quality, quantity, and targeting capabilities lend a hand to fraud. It is critical to understand that while AI has numerous benefits, its misuse in scams is a growing concern. Adding to said concerns is that cybercrimes are on the rise. As you mentioned earlier, the Federal Trade Commission reported that a staggering steady increase of online fraud losses year over year has been increasing, with 2022 losses reaching around $9 billion. Addressing this challenge requires a multi-pronged approach, especially in the age of AI. We need to enhance synthetic media detection capabilities, ensure content verification, develop standards and response processes, and implement multiple authentication factors for users, while addressing issues in the defense mechanisms themselves, such as bias and discrimination in the automation detection systems. On that last point, please don't make any mistake. The use of AI models with biased data to detect cyber fraud detection may have significant consequences. AI is just a model that uses data, and we never really figured out the data considerations, and so the AI models will have the same questions and concerns that we have around data use and decisionmaking that we have been asking ourselves for 20 years. If AI systems are fed garbage data, then they will produce garbage outcomes. In closing, the pace at which AI is being adopted and advancing is breathtaking. As we embrace its benefits, we must also be vigilant against its risks, especially cybercrimes. The recent Executive Order by President Biden emphasizing the management of synthetic content and labeling a verification of AI generated media is a step in the right direction. However, more concentrated efforts are needed at both the Federal and State levels, and the role of Congress cannot be understated. We must codify and standardize the undefined aspects of this technology in order to respond to the negative use cases. States will continue to forge ahead with their own laws and regulations, creating a patchwork of definitions, standards, and enforcement that could be further exploited by cyber criminals. It is often said that innovation is at the heart of progress, but it is critical that Congress works to strike a balance between innovation and regulation to safeguard our society, particularly our senior citizens, from the dark side of AI. Thank you. The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Romanoff. Mr. Weisman. STATEMENT OF STEVE WEISMAN, JD, SCAM EXPERT, EDITOR OF SCAMICIDE.COM, SENIOR LECTURER, BENTLEY UNIVERSITY, WALTHAM, MASSACHUSETTS Mr. Weisman. Chairman Casey, Ranking Member Braun, thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony today. My name is Steve Weisman. I am a lawyer with the firm of Margolis, Bloom & D'Agostino, a Professor at Bentley University, where I teach white collar crime. Author and the editor of scamicide.com, where each day I provide new information about the latest scams, identity theft, and cybersecurity developments, and tips on how to avoid these problems. Scamicide was named by the New York Times as one of the three best sources for information about Covid related scams. When it comes to fraud and scams affecting seniors, I am here to tell you things aren't as bad as you think. Unfortunately, they are far worse. According to the FTC's Consumer Sentinel Report, which was just released a few weeks ago and you mentioned, older Americans reportedly lost $1.6 billion to frauds and scams in 2022. As you also mentioned, this number is undoubtedly lower than the actual figure because many seniors, for a variety of reasons, including embarrassment or shame, fail to report the scams perpetrated against them. The FTC estimates in 2022 the actual amount lost by seniors could be as high as $48.4 billion. Now, with artificial intelligence, the scams are getting worse. AI has become a sophisticated weapon that can be effectively utilized by even the most unsophisticated scammers. Today, I would like to tell you about a few of the scams in which AI is being used and how we can protect older adults. By now, as you heard, many people are somewhat familiar with the family emergency scam or grandparent scam in which a family member receives a telephone call from someone posing as their loved one. The individual on the phone claims to have gotten into some trouble, most commonly a traffic accident. In grandparent scams, the scammer pleads for the grandparent to send the money immediately to help resolve the problem and begs the grandparent not to tell mom and dad. Now, this scam has been perpetrated for approximately 14 years, but it is getting worse, and we have AI to thank for that. Through the use of readily available AI voice cloning technology, a scammer using a recording of the grandchild or child's voice obtained from YouTube, Tik Tok, Instagram, or voice mail can create a call to the grandparent that sounds exactly like the grandchild. All it takes is AI voice generating software readily available and as little as 30 seconds of audio. Phishing emails, and the more specifically targeted spear phishing emails, use social engineering to lure the targeted victim to click on a link, download a malware attachment, make a payment, or provide personal information. Spear phishing, however, is a personalized phishing email that incorporates information about the targeted victim to make that email more believable, and phishing is used in a variety of schemes. In 2021, Google conducted a study in conjunction with researchers at Stanford. The researchers studied more than a billion malicious emails targeting Gmail users, and they found that the number of phishing and spear phishing emails users received totaled more than 100 million each day. Again, as bad as a threat as socially engineered spear phishing emails have presented in the past, they are far worse now because of AI. Using AI, scammers can create more sophisticated and effective spear phishing emails that are more likely to convince a victim to fall for a scam. In the past, phishing emails, particularly those originating overseas in countries where English is not the primary language, could be recognized by their lack of grammar, syntax, or spelling. However, AI has solved those problems for foreign scammers and their phishing emails are now more difficult to recognize. So how do we protect seniors from scams? Well, forewarned is forearmed. Alerting the public as to telltale signs of scams and how to recognize them is a key element in protecting seniors. I do this each day through scamicide, and this committee has also done this through publications such as its Fraud Book publication, which contains much useful information. Fortunately, AI can also be an effective tool in combating AI enhanced scams. Machine learning algorithms can analyze vast amounts of data to identify patterns and trends associated with spear phishing emails. AI can also be used to identify robocall patterns and detect spoofing, a technique used to manipulate caller ID and mimic another phone number. Regulation of AI is critical to protecting people from AI enhanced scams, and as was said, the President's recent Executive Order is a promising first step. The FTC has regulatory authority over AI through Section five of the FTC Act, but Congress will also have a role to play in crafting appropriate regulations. Unfortunately, scammers may pay little attention to regulators, so regulators should focus on ensuring consumers can identify and authenticate content. When it comes to protecting seniors from the daunting challenge of AI and scams, the time to do the best we can is now. The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Weisman. Dr. Ekin. Is that-- did I pronounce that correctly, Ekin? STATEMENT OF TAHIR EKIN, PH.D, PROFESSOR AND DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR ANALYTICS AND DATA SCIENCE, TEXAS STATE UNIVERSITY, SAN MARCOS, TEXAS Dr. Ekin. You did. Thank you, Chairman Casey and Ranking Member Braun. Today, as we convene, it is alarming to acknowledge an 81 percent increase in losses to scams among older Americans, accounting to billions of dollars in the past year. I am Tahir Ekin, Fields Chair in Business Analytics and a Professor at McCoy College of Business, Texas State University. My research dives into the critical intersection of AI and fraud detection. I am honored to testify on this urgent matter today. Scams continue to affect older Americans at alarming rates. Despite improved awareness and educational campaigns, both the losses and the number of victims has surged. This prompts the question, are scammers becoming more sophisticated or our response is lagging? The reality likely involves a combination of both. AI amplifies the impact of scams, enhancing their believability and emotional appeal through personalization. Voice and face manipulation illicit urgency and familiarity, manipulating older adults' emotional responses and vulnerability. Notably, there is a surge in personalized scams. Recognizing the growing role of AI in scams is crucial. While efforts to help scammers are underway, we should also explore AI as part of the solution. My research centers on AI methods for health care fraud detection draws parallels to combating scams targeting older Americans. Industries like credit card companies have successfully used AI for fraud detection, denying suspicious transactions in almost real time, and collaborating with consumers for confirmation. However, health care fraud still incur substantial losses as high as 10 percent of our annual health expenditures, which could mean more than $300 billion. Hence the name of my book, "Statistics on Health Care Fraud, How to Save Billions." We have limited resources to analyze billions of transactions. Statistics and AI find the needle in the haystack to support the auditors and save taxpayers money. AI's proactive role extends to monitoring online platforms and blocking potential scam calls, yet its true potential lies in collaboration as seen in Government health care programs. Initiatives like the Medicare Transaction Fraud Prevention Act that advocate data collection and call verification with beneficiaries are essential for AI integration, akin to credit card fraud detection. Responsible AI methods can facilitate personalized education campaigns while preserving privacy and ethics. For example, AI can flag a typical behavioral patterns like sudden financial transactions, enabling tailored alerts and educational materials for older adults. Last, fraudsters are adaptive, and scams will evolve. Use of adversarial AI can help proactively limit scammers' abilities. Acknowledging AI's imperfections such as false positives and addressing privacy concerns is crucial. However, by constructing responsible AI systems, we can empower older Americans while navigating potential risks. To effectively combat these evolving threats, collaboration among Government agencies, tech companies, financial institutions, and consumer advocacy groups is crucial. Sharing insights and data to train these AI models to detect and prevent these scams is pivotal, including input from older adults in developing AI driven tools is also necessary. In the fight against AI driven scams, awareness and AI literacy are critical weapons. Existing efforts, such as the President's campaign, can be enhanced to include AI related steps. In the context of ethical use of AI against scams, clear disclosure of the use of AI in communication, marketing, and financial transactions, with a focus on protecting vulnerable populations is important. Accessible support and reporting mechanisms such as the toll free for all hotline are crucial against gaps. AI based chat bots and communication channels can supplement and provide additional support outside the business hours and at the time of need. AI also can make public scam campaigns more impactful, making them tailored to the needs of specific older adult groups. In conclusion, the interplay of AI and scamps brings forth challenges and opportunities. Striking a careful balance between fostering AI innovation and protecting vulnerable populations is paramount. I advocate for proactive and personalized AI based supporting measures, recognizing the difficulty in recovering both lost finances and mental well-being after a scam has occurred. By prioritizing the enhancement of their data and AI literacy, we can also actively involve older Americans in prevention and detection. Understanding the impacts of dynamic disruptions like AI will undoubtedly take time. As a realistic optimist, I find hope in the collaborative efforts to yield robust and trustworthy AI applications, fostering a safer environment for older adults. Thank you for providing this platform to address this critical issue. Your work in safeguarding older Americans against scams and raising awareness is commendable. I eagerly welcome any questions or discussions the committee may have. Thank you. The Chairman. Doctor, thank you very much. We will now move to our questions of the witnesses, and just for folks' awareness, today is Thursday, so we have Senators in and out coming from other hearings and other commitments, so we should have some Senators here at 10:45. It will be about the time that Senator Braun and I are probably through our first round of questions. I will start with Gary Schildhorn. Gary, thanks again for sharing your experience, and we know that when it comes to these scams, these bad actors, or better way to refer to them as criminals, will prey upon our vulnerabilities and our fear. They know we are human beings. They know they can advance their scam by playing on those fears and those vulnerabilities. With artificial intelligence, scammers can more easily and quickly and accurately tailor or target their scams to intended victims. The Committee offers resources, including the Fraud Book which I mentioned earlier, that shares some red flags to watch out for and steps to take to prevent against scams. We are also releasing a brochure, which I have here, that will provide more information in a shorter form. Gary, I wanted to ask you this. Why do you think people should--what do you think people should know about AI assisted scams, number one, what should they know? How should they identify them? What are some of the red flags or indicators that you have learned since you were the target of this? Mr. Schildhorn. Thank you for the question. It is very difficult now to see red flags. The person that I spoke with, Barry Goldstein, spoke coherent, intelligent English. There were no grammatical errors or mispronunciation of words. His text messages back and forth were clear and responsive. When I was engaging him to, while I was trying to get law enforcement in, I told him that I was trying to find this name in Martindale Hubbell, and for lawyers, that is where lawyer biographies are found. He sent me a biography that he had already had ready. It is very difficult for that--for you to see a sign that it is a scam. There is one way that I recognize as a red flag. When someone is asking you to send money either by cash or by gift cards or other untraceable methods, that is the red flag. That is when an antenna should go up and say, well, why aren't they just asking me to do a regular wire transfer from my bank to their bank? In answer to your question, that is the main red flag that I see that a consumer could react to as a possible indication of a scam. The Chairman. I know that over the years and among other things that our Fraud Book has talked about, just in the context of certain kinds of scams, that there are red flags. I understand what you are saying, they are a lot harder to detect. For example, we used to say that, and it is still the case with these IRS scams that are somewhat related to what we are talking about, but now of greater sophistication, but the rule, one rule was, if someone calls you and says they are from the IRS on the telephone, it is your first contact, it is not the IRS. You always get something in writing. I realize that is a rather simple rule. Much harder to find the simple red flags with the sophistication of AI. Mr. Weisman, I know you have got a website, scamicide, which features a tremendous amount of information about scams. You have been doing this for about 12 years, a scam of the day, and it is hard to believe you have that much content, but that tells you the gravity of the problem or the scope of it. Your work demonstrates how pervasive and persistent scammers are and how diverse their tactics are when targeting witnesses. This Committee has been collecting data on scams targeting older adults for about 10 years now. We have seen trends that change and new technologies that emerge, and obviously some of those are set forth in the Fraud Book. In the time that you have been running--operating the website, how have you seen technology change and tactics shift? Maybe, what is your advice for us as we look forward down the road, especially with the advent of AI? Mr. Weisman. You mentioned when I started scamicide, I wondered if I would have enough scams to do a new one every day, and after more than 4,400 scams, unfortunately they don't stop. You know, the scams--the scams have been with us forever. The Nigerian email is just an update of a scam called the Spanish Prisoner from the 1500's, and the cryptocurrency scams we see, even cryptocurrency pump and dumps were done before. You are right, the technology has changed it. It has changed the delivery systems as far as robo calls. It is done it--the voice over internet protocol where phones can be-- messages can come in from all over the world over a computer, and the phone is still the way that seniors get the most scammed. Then there is even something called spoofing. You mentioned the IRS, and you know it is not the IRS, which is the same line I have always told people. However, they look at their caller ID and they see the call is coming from the IRS, and so they trust it. That is where my motto comes in is, trust me, you can't trust anyone. AI has just enhanced that, and sort of what Tom was saying, any time you are asked for personal information, any time you are asked to make a payment of any kind, any time you are asked to click on a link, you have got to be skeptical. You have got to hold back and check it out. That is a nice rule that can be very difficult when these scammers, the scam artists, the only criminals we call artists, have a knowledge of psychology Freud would have envied and they are able to manipulate us, and that is where we need to change our minds. The Chairman. Thanks very much. Ranking Member Braun. Senator Braun. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Schildhorn, how did the story end with Barry Goldstein? I see where he actually got mad at you at the tail end. Was anybody ever able to track this guy down, or is he still out there? Mr. Schildhorn. Ranking Member Braun, it ended when I asked him for his Social Security number. Senator Braun. I see that, yes. Mr. Schildhorn. He told me--he actually cursed me out. Told me I didn't love my son and stopped communicating with me at that point. That is how it ended. What was the second part of your question? Senator Braun. In other words, he got frustrated and then he just disappeared into the ether then? Mr. Schildhorn. He recognized that, but is he still out there? Yes. I know that because the calls I got when people found my article were telling me that it was Mr. Goldstein. Senator Braun. He is still using the same name? Mr. Schildhorn. It works. Why not? When the reporter reached out to him, it was pretty incredible because the reporter said, you are in California. How did you meet with Schildhorn in Philadelphia? Oh, well, it was a phone meeting. I mean, he had answers for everything. Yes, as far as I know from the calls I have received, that scam is unabated. It still goes on, and no one has---- Senator Braun. The traceability of using a phone or whatever he does has never led authorities to Mr. Goldstein? Mr. Schildhorn. When I first contacted the FBI, they said, well, they use burner phones which cannot be traced, and the cryptocurrency cannot be recalled. At that time, I am not even sure they could find the accounts that cryptocurrency--this was 2020, so law enforcement had no solution. As I said in my testimony, it is fundamental in our system that if you are harmed, you have a remedy. Here, there seemed to be no remedy, neither the courts of law or law enforcement. Senator Braun. He is not the only one. Thank you for explaining that thoroughly. Question for Mr. Romanoff. When you look at how AI has been used in terms of credit card companies, health care, we know, and we have seen some real graphic examples of how it is used maliciously. Can you go over a few of the things that we know it has worked at and saved time and money? Mr. Romanoff. Yes. The sheer amount of information and data that needs to be processed in order to protect systems against cybercrime and hacking is--a human can't do it, and so, there is algorithms that have existed for many years now. AI has been used to assist cyber defenders for years in terms of processing that information, identifying trends, and flagging anything that could be fraudulent in that space. That continues to be a major factor in terms of defending against some of these attacks. In terms of, you know, some of the expanded capacity of being able to detect whether a phone call is actually coming from the right person or identifying trends in robo calling and things like that, AI can be very useful in assisting in that, which does tend to stem some of the scams that are being perpetuated. In terms of, you know, direct correlation between what the credit card companies and this application--you know, there are some obstacles there. You have to have the credit card company, or a financial institution involved in order to, you know, identify a fraud or scam, so when it is happening at an individual level, there is some question as to who steps in and uses these powerful systems to identify that. Senator Braun. In your opinion then, for the bill that we are introducing, I am going to--I think I am going to get colleagues on the other side of the aisle, the Medicare Transaction Fraud Prevention Act, which is aimed at diagnostic testing and durable medical equipment. Is there any reason the principles of what you just described wouldn't work to prevent fraud there, you know, through CMS? Mr. Romanoff. Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that there is different data regulations in terms of HIPAA versus consumer data and protections on that front. I would have to read the bill in order to provide specific insights on that. In terms of the systems of AI being used to identify fraud, you can see an application there, in the application of health care in general, yes. Senator Braun. That amount, by the way, is $60 billion a year. Mr. Romanoff. Oh, yes. Senator Braun. Defrauding Medicare. It is a lot. I got another question. Do you want to yield back and---- The Chairman. Go ahead. Go ahead. Senator Braun. Okay. This is for Dr. Ekin. We just described what was happening in our own Government. Like when we did the extended unemployment benefits, which was just under $1 trillion, and there is an estimate that anywhere from $100 to $200 billion from domestic and foreign fraudsters. When the Government is involved, it is like, you know--it is a lot easier, seemingly, to defraud. I have never heard commercial entities--they have got all this protective gear. Here, you know, it is like picking it out of a toddler's hand almost. What can we do here and what do you--let's just look at, CMS's current Medicare fraud prevention system. Compare it to what could be out there, and is it any different from what it was years ago? Dr. Ekin. Thank you, Senator Braun, for the question. There have been many improvements actually. In 2011, basically since 2011 now CMS has authority to use predictive algorithms to identify fraud, and they have come up with this fraud prevention system, and now we have the second installment of that. Over time, they have been using some both prepayment and post payment methods to detect fraud. Most of the focus has been on post payments, which basically focuses on more pay and chase transactions, so basically the system pays the providers, including fraudsters, and then try to chase the potential-- basically funds from the fraudulent transactions, which we are not as successful. We are not able to recover as much. Recently, with the second basic installment of the fraud prevention system, they also added prepayment edits, but they mostly focus on basically eligibility of billings with respect to the policies and rules of Medicare. Senator Braun. Is the amount of $60 billion a year going down, or is it still going up? Dr. Ekin. I believe it is still going up because also annual health care expenditure saving going up, right, in the-- specially the last decade. Most of the Government agencies overall lost around three to ten percent, given that we are spending more than $4 trillion on health care. The amount is easily in---- Senator Braun. That is all in the context. Currently, we are borrowing $1 trillion every six months to run this business here. When you have got that kind of fraud nipping at its flanks, something has got to give. Yield back. The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Braun. We are now joined by Senator Blumenthal. Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for having this hearing on artificial intelligence, which is growing in importance and gaining public attention at an accelerating rate, almost as fast and accelerating rate as artificial intelligence itself is progressing. As you know, we have done a lot here in the Senate. Majority Leader Schumer has held a number of forums. The subcommittee that I had, a subcommittee of the Judiciary called Privacy, Technology, and the Law has held a number of hearings as well. Ours have been public. At one of them, I--as a matter of fact, the first I played a recording of my voice and introduced it by saying, now for some introductory remarks. It was my voice, but it was taken from speeches that I gave on the floor of the Senate, and the content of what was said came from ChatGPT. One of the witnesses at the hearing was Sam Altman of OpenAI. It was literally my voice, content that could have easily been mistaken for something I said. It sounded exactly like what the chairman of a subcommittee would have said, and it sounded exactly like my voice. Which leads to one of the areas that I think all of you have mentioned, particularly Mr. Romanoff, the impersonation and deepfake dangers. You mentioned in your testimony that some banks now use voice identification to authenticate account ownership because some of the scammers are using voice impersonation in effect to break the authentication that the banks try to use. Can you talk a little bit about how multiple authentication, which you mentioned in your testimony, can help prevent these kind of scams. Whether they would have any application to the individual senior citizen who gets a call. Sounds exactly like that person's nephew stranded here in Topeka. I have no money, please wire money. You know the standard fraud, but the impersonation of the voice is used to trick. Might be anyone, not just a senior citizen, but can you talk a little bit about authentication as a means of breaking the potential impersonation scams. Mr. Romanoff. Sure thing. In terms of voice cloning, it is a technology that has been around for a little bit. 1998 was the first time someone cloned their voice using a computer. With generative AI, as we are all aware, there has been much more capacity and much more availability to access these voice cloning tools. At the same time, banks are, you know, want to provide services to their customers with an ease of use while protecting their assets. For a little while, voice banking was something that you could use the biometric markers of a person's voice in order to authenticate them as a user. It was very recently that a reporter was able to break into their own account using voice banking and demonstrate that these--this technology has advanced to the point where it may not be essentially viable in terms of authenticating a user. In cybersecurity, you are supposed to have multifactor authentication at all times. It does create obstacles to access some of your assets or information or whatever it might be, because the ease of use in terms of doing more than one way to authenticate, you know, can cause people to not want to do that service or whatever it might be. It is necessary because no longer are voice biometrics enough to it indicate a user. You are seeing banks move away from that or shy away from voice authentication as a way to verify. The second thing is behavioral. When it comes to cyber hygiene, we tend to engage our products or services in a way that is familiar to us. If you introduce a behavior such as using your voice to authenticate your bank account, then folks that get used to that will be-- will expect that, and scammers know that, so they will look for ways that they can capitalize on established behaviors such as voice cloning and voice authentication to access assets. The second thing is to, as Chairman Casey mentioned, if IRS is calling you and it is the first time you are hearing from them, then that is a red flag. It should also be a red flag if your bank is calling you, because there should be more than one way to authenticate that the bank is the one that is calling you in that space. I think the main obstacle here is that, you know, you are dealing with an institution when it comes to banks and trying to authenticate versus you are dealing with a psychological attack, in the case of these scams, where the precedent--where the emphasis is on action. What I encourage folks to do, and this is a very low tech way of addressing the issue, is doing a password among your friends and family and making sure that you are not publicizing that password or putting it in email because hackers will be able to get access to that. If somebody were to call you, you can say password, authenticate. If they aren't able to do that, then you are probably dealing with somebody who is cloning the voice. That is a very low key way of doing it. When it comes to institutional approaches, a multifactor authentication is probably the best bet going forward. Senator Blumenthal. How about the individual, you know, living at home. Is there a way and will there be ways--I assume this technology is also developing the authentication, multiple factor technology. For me, sitting in my living room, getting a call from one of my children, sounds exactly like one of my children saying, you know, I can't talk here at, you know, a bus terminal or train station. I need money, please wire it. A lot of people fall for that kind of scam. Mr. Romanoff. Yes. I am aware of some use cases where private sector is using AI and technology to try to cut down on robo calling, and it is using some of the technology to authenticate a user that is coming in. I am not sure if that is--that product or those products are being applied to authenticate voices per se. I can't answer if there is a specific product or process out there for that. Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Thank you to all the witnesses who are here today. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. The Chairman. Thanks, Senator Blumenthal. We will turn next to Senator Warren. Senator Warren. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Braun for holding this hearing. Thank you all for being here. Really important topic. Crypto is a favorite for those who are looking to defraud consumers. According to the FBI, in 2022, crypto scams were the leading cause of investment fraud in the United States. Using crypto, fraudsters stole a record $2.5 billion from consumers. Crypto fraud isn't hitting all consumers equally. Last year we saw a 350 percent increase in crypto investment scams targeting seniors. That is the biggest spike among all age groups. That ended up to more than $1 billion that seniors lost in crypto scams. Many victims don't report their experiences, as some of you have noted, out of shame or fear, that billion dollar figure is almost surely an underestimate. Now, Mr. Weisman, you are a nationally recognized expert on scams and cyber security. Why are older Americans particularly vulnerable to crypto scams? Mr. Weisman. You know, it is older Americans are--they are susceptible generally because there is a part of our--you know, anecdotally we say, well, we have lost a little bit of the fastball, which I can attribute to it. It is not going as far, but there is a part of our brain dealing with skepticism that becomes less viable as we age. There have been studies done at Cornell, as well as the University of Iowa, that has shown this. Then you get into the issue of cryptocurrencies itself, and there is this fear of missing out. It is, oh my goodness, this is going to be the best thing since the proverbial sliced bread. The seniors are susceptible to this, but it is even worse than that, Senator Warren, in the sense that when a scammer will scam someone with a cryptocurrency scam, and there are myriads of them, from phony cryptos to using it as the funds that are in various other kinds of investment scams, they become scammed and then they give the list of the scammers, the scammers do, of their victims to other scammers who will contact the victims and say, we are from the Federal Government, we are from the Justice Department, and for a fee, apparently the Justice Department now charges fees, we will collect for you. They lose again. Fear and greed are two elements that are found in every kind of scam. Unfortunately, crypto just has captured the imagination of many people, particularly seniors, and it is coming back to bite us. Senator Warren. Well, I really appreciate your work on this. You know, as you said, crypto is used in all kinds of scams. Scammers claim to have embarrassing information about someone they will reveal unless the person forks over a crypto ransom. Scammers pose as friends and loved ones to encourage people to invest their life savings so long as the payment is in crypto. We now understand that scammers even set up fake investment platforms to trick people into buying crypto, that of course they will never be able to get their money out of. I am sorry, go ahead, Mr. Weisman---- Mr. Weisman. No, it is--because I think you are--my favorite was on YouTube, there was an investment scam that was going to couple cryptocurrencies and AI. AI is going to show you how to make and the guaranteed millions from crypto and the CEO of the company was there touting it. The CEO, wasn't real. He was an AI generated avatar and anyone that put money into this thing lost it. It is scary the combination of AI and crypto, and with the anonymity of crypto, that is why the scammers love it so much. Senator Warren. Right. Well, so talk for just a second, why crypto? Why is it happening through crypto rather than, say, your bank account or some other transaction account? Mr. Weisman. It is the new shiny object. It is catching our mind, and we think that there is something there. I can't help believe that to a certain extent it is the Emperor's New Clothes. Cryptocurrencies are legitimate, but the idea as making millions in investments on this---- Senator Warren. It is the new shiny object. Anything else about crypto? The anonymity? Mr. Weisman. The anonymity is terrific. That is one thing, you have people looking for the privacy. Then of course, that is something with crypto mixers where your account gets mixed in with others and becomes very difficult to trace. One of the things the Government did a great job was after the ransomware attack with Colonial Pipeline, they were able to trace those accounts and get it back, but once it goes into the mixers, then you have got problems. Now, there is legitimate privacy concerns some people may have, but it doesn't come anywhere near to the scammers. Senator Warren. Right. It also, as I understand it, it is fast, so the money is gone. Mr. Weisman. That is the thing. You react--in scams, it is often, you got to act now. It is an emergency. We act immediately, and then I have actually had clients who have been scammed with a credit card fraud and managed to call and stop it. That isn't happening with crypto. Senator Warren. Yes and can't--yes. Look, I think that Americans are getting sick and tired of these crypto crimes, and it is long past time that we got some regulation in place to deal with this, and that is why Senator Roger Marshall and I have introduced our bipartisan Digital Asset Anti-Money Laundering Act. This bill has the support of 14 other Senators, both Democrats and Republicans, and the chair of our committee here. It is endorsed by the AARP. It would make it easier for financial regulators to track suspicious crypto activity and shut down scammers. I know I am over time, but so let's do this one, and we can do it as a yes no. Mr. Weisman, would crypto legislation like ours help cut down on crypto scams? Mr. Weisman. Yes, absolutely. I love it. Here is the thing. My students at Bentley University were recently studying money laundering and we were talking about this very thing. The law is always behind technology. The banks have the know your customer rule, which helps. You need to have the private sector and the Government working together. This is--your legislation is long overdue. It is a no brainer in the sense--not that you are a no brainer. Senator Warren. No, I take that as a compliment. Mr. Weisman. It is something that absolutely would help immeasurably. Senator Warren. Good. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. We have got no time to waste on this. These scams are happening every day. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Senator Warren. Senator Kelly. Senator Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you for the video that you showed at the top of the hearing that told the story of Jennifer DeStefano. Jennifer is a mom of four from Scottsdale. I think we heard earlier, this year she got a call from an unknown number, and when she picked it up, it was her 15 year old daughter. Her daughter was crying and calling out for her. The man got on the phone and threatened to harm her kid unless she paid $50,000. The man said he needed the money in cash and would be coming to her in a van, and folks nearby called 9-1-1, as well as calling Jennifer's husband. Turned out that her daughter was just at home, not with kidnapers, and the call wasn't real. You know, scammers had used in this case AI to create a voice that sounded like her daughter's voice, and she couldn't tell the difference. Even though in that moment of extreme, horrific, you know, terror, probably shook Jennifer to her core, the police said there was nothing that they could do. No money was transferred. No crime they said had been committed. Now, this feels to me, and I imagine many others, and to many Americans, as a huge blind spot in the law. I think we have a couple of lawyers on the panel here. Mr. Schildhorn and Mr. Weisman, how should we in Congress be looking at filling these gaps in the law? Mr. Schildhorn. Thank you, Senator. As I think you have just mentioned as part of your question, it is a fundamental principle of our system that there is a remedy if you are harmed. And with crypto and AI the law enforcement does not have a remedy and neither does the judicial system. You can't find anyone to sue, so my answer is that there needs to be some legislation that allows these people to be identified or where that money has gone to be identified, so that there is a remedy for the harm that's being caused. Currently, there is a hole in the system. There is no remedy that I am aware of. Senator Kelly. Well, how about the issue that in this specific case--and by the way, I have had this happen to somebody I am rather close with. Almost the exact same thing, and again, no money was transferred. It was incredibly, you know, shocking to--in this case, it was a grandparent that had the same issue, same thing happened to them with a grandkid. No money was transferred. To me, that still seems like a crime, attempting to rip somebody off even though they weren't successful. Do you feel we should make that a crime and there are criminal penalties? Mr. Schildhorn. Senator Kelly, I am not an expert on this, but I am a lawyer, so that has never stopped me from giving an opinion. In this instance, I mean, there are analogies in the law to intentional infliction of emotional distress. I believe that is a cause of action in many states. There might be a way to enhance that type of a law, that if someone is using this, even if you don't spend money, and you cause that kind of shock and distress, that the law allows you to recover a sum of money that is not calculated by how much you have actually lost, but how much pain and suffering you have incurred because you have been subject to that type of extortion. Senator Kelly. Mr. Wiseman. Mr. Weisman. Yes. I think Gary hit on the key word there. Extortion is a crime. Attempted extortion is a crime. I do think it already is a criminal violation. I agree with you. I think that some Federal legislation to this particular medium of delivery of this extortion could be done. The other thing is, one thing I tell my students when we are talking about white collar crime, the answer to every question is, it is about the money, and so here, as has been said before, it is very difficult to trace it. They are using burner phones. Who knows even where they may be. They may be even using voice cloning technology. They can be in a foreign country where their accents are no longer going to be able to be heard. What we can do is, as the Senior Safe Act is, go after gift card because they pay by gift cards, go after the wiring, go after the banking so you stop it there where people--they are in the rush of emotion. Then they go to pay by a gift card, and the gift card people say, where is this going? What is this for? They recognize the scam, so stop it before it actually occurs. Senator Kelly. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I am going to submit a couple of questions for the record. Thank you. The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Kelly. We will turn next to Senator Gillibrand. Senator Gillibrand. Thank you so much for being here. I, like many of the Senators here, have heard so many reports about how our seniors are being targeted with financial fraud, financial scams, AI generated scams, cryptocurrency related scams. It is unbelievable the amount that criminal networks, worldwide criminal networks are targeting our older Americans. They have retirement funds, they have life savings, and these times are very complex, and these scams are getting more and more sophisticated. Unfortunately, our older Americans are soft targets for these very, very sophisticated criminal networks. Let's address AI. Scammers can use AI generated and power technology to do deepfakes on voice, do deepfakes on photographs. We know of a New Yorker whose mother received a call from a scammer using voice cloning AI to mimic her distressed child in need of $50,000 to get her out of jail. Unfortunately, that scam worked. Mr. Romanoff, are the technology development practices in applying AI that also protect consumers from fraud? Are there any unintended consequences of using AI for this purpose? Do you believe that the existing Federal agencies are properly equipped, both in their technical capability and congressional appropriations, to combat these targeted scams? Mr. Romanoff. Thank you for that question. I will start with the latter question. Federal--some Federal agencies that are more geared toward law enforcement would be better equipped to deal with these scams. I do think that generative AI in terms of its uses to perpetuate fraud goes across multiple jurisdictions. There is a need to increase the AI readiness and workforce--in the workforce of AI in the Federal Government. The folks that can identify these issues and use AI itself to detect the fraud. In terms of your first question--and please repeat, what was it? I am sorry. Senator Gillibrand. It was--well, you already answered it. If you can use AI for good and bad in this scenario. The second was, do the Federal agencies have enough law enforcement power to actually address the problem? Mr. Romanoff. Yes. In both of those scenarios, yes, you can use it for good and bad. I think the consideration around AI and its use to detect fraud is, there is a growing concern right now that, you know, do you invest in the AI systems to detect fraud or do you invest in the workforce, individuals who have the expertise to identify trends themselves? I think as technology continues to be--kind of expand and adopted, we are going to look at a gap between the folks that are entry level kind of law enforcement folks and the folks that are looking at these systems long term, so there needs to be some sort of consideration around, you know, how do you train individuals beyond using an AI to identify these issues, because data has a deteriorating value over time. These AI models that are used to detect fraud and train to detect fraud, they need a constant source of data and updates in order to figure out what the latest trend is on that. Senator Gillibrand. Thank you. I only have a minute. Got to do another question. The second question I have is about cryptocurrency. We have seen the lack of regulation in cryptocurrency being an impediment to protecting consumers. I am very frustrated that the Senate has not held substantial hearings yet on how we can actually provide commonsense, thoughtful regulation to keep good actors in the United States and to have law enforcement tools to ban bad actors. We have an example where our Attorney General filed a claim against a cryptocurrency company defrauding hundreds of thousands of investors, but one older woman, for example, a retired 73 year old grandmother, invested her husband's life savings of $200,000 in a scam crypto agency--a scam crypto currency company. We need companies to register with the SEC, with the CFTC, with the IRS. We need oversight by the Fed. We need oversight by all the regulatory organizations, and Congress isn't doing that work. The second thing is I have also heard of scams where seniors are being asked to send money urgently because there is some bank account problem, and they are asked to send it at a cryptocurrency ATM. Even the low tech version of fraud is being used to mislead seniors into thinking that that is a way to fix a banking problem. Mr. Weisman, I lead a bill, the Senior Financial Empowerment Act, which would ensure older adults and their caregivers have access to critical information regarding how to report and combat fraud. How would consumer education have helped in this situation? Mr. Schildhorn, thank you for sharing your experience. You mentioned that you were asked to wire funds. How can crypto be used as a tool for scammers? What do you believe could be done on the institution and consumer education, and to prevent those type of scams? Both, please. Mr. Schildhorn. Yes, I was a big fan of your bill, particularly the areas of consumer education which are so critical, but the scammers create an emergency and people respond and emotionally. The thing I found the most interesting was your reference to the ATMs and the cryptocurrency ATMs. They are just the easy access road to sending money to the scammers, and they are unregulated. As you said earlier, the law is always going to be behind technology, but the kind of regulations you are asking for are eminently reasonable, and these are the kinds of things we have in other areas of the economy. This is what we should be doing. Mr. Weisman. Senator Gillibrand, on an institutional level, I look at the banks because there is one break where the scammer does not have the direct relationship with the victim, and that is at the teller. Right now, you can't withdraw $9,000 from an ATM. You must have a human interaction with a teller. If banks are required to train their tellers to ask questions when they see an unusual cash withdrawal, that is an institutional change that might prevent scam. On the individual basis, I think Mr. Romanoff talked about a having a family password, but there is another way to do it as well by asking a question that only your relative or your child would know for. For example, if I asked who I thought was my son Brett, what is your brother's middle name? I mean, that would--as soon as you ask that question, there is unlikely to be an answer. To have consumers think of that while their child is hurt in jail is a lot to ask, because it is the emotional part of your brain that is controlling everything you are doing. The rational part of your brain is suppressed during this, but the teller--the teller possibility is there. Senator Gillibrand. Thank you all for testifying today. This is an urgent crisis in my State of New York, and your leadership and your advocacy is making a difference. Thank you. The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Gillibrand. I will turn next to Ranking Member Braun. Senator Braun. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I have one final question. The Medicare Transaction Fraud Prevention Act, which we are rolling out, is to empower CMS to use this tool to catch fraudsters. I can't believe it currently that they do not, and this is for Dr. Ekin, they do not use beneficiary feedback. This bill would allow that too. What do we lose to actually learn from it when we are not talking to the people that actually get defrauded? Dr. Ekin. Thank you, Senator Braun, for the question. Actually, one of the major things we are missing is we are not--our algorithms are not adaptive enough because we are not getting the data feedback from the beneficiaries. If we are able to get that data, even our existing predictive algorithms would be more accurate. Basically, they will--adapt to the real scams in almost more real time fashion. I think that is what we are missing now. Senator Braun. Well, I think--thank you for that answer. I believe getting beneficiary feedback along with being able to use the latest tools--most other places that do well with preventing fraud are already doing both. Thank you. The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Braun. I will just have maybe one more question before we wrap up. I wanted to turn to Mr. Romanoff. You have spoken about how quickly generative AI's use by the public exploded, and it seems we are dealing today with an entirely different landscape than we were even a year ago. I don't think it would be surprising to anyone here to see even newer technology emerge in the coming year or years that will change it yet again. I wanted to ask you, can you discuss some of the ways you think AI will be used by both scammers and these criminals in the future to prey on customers--I am sorry, consumers. What should companies be doing now, right now, to protect their consumers and to protect their data? Mr. Romanoff. Yes. I want to start by saying oftentimes the quote around how much time it takes to clone a voice, around three seconds, that data came from 2020. When we think about generative AI and its current hype cycle, this technology has already existed in the wild for many years now. There is the darknet out there in which there are scammers that are using packaged goods to scam adults, older adults and youngsters as well. That is always going to be an issue. In terms of opportunists, you can address that by watermarking content that is generated by an AI. The problem with that is that there is always a cat and mouse, or a spy versus spy in terms of identifying that generative AI. What we will see is continued adoption of some of these established scams into kind of the new world of being able to generate content at will, and then probably new scams will emerge over time. Companies can do a lot by, you know, doing some of the volunteer standards that, you know, the Biden Administration came out with some around watermarking and continuing to do some digital work there to make sure that you can run checks against whether something is generated by an AI versus not. The other area that I have mentioned in my testimony is multifactor authentication. You know, we are going to need to get better at confirming that, you know, a collar or an image or a voice is actually coming from the originator. The Chairman. Thanks very much. I know we are out of time, and I wish we had more time. We have lots more questions. This panel was very informative for us. I am going to go through an opening--or our closing statement. I did also want to note for the record, Senator Rick Scott was here, was not able to ask a question, but was here for the hearing, and as you might know, Thursdays in the Senate are busy mornings. Today was a little different because we ended our voting for this work period last night, so a lot of schedules changed. That is why people are in and out and some weren't able to make it, but we are grateful. The hearing record, of course, will be available to all Senators. I want to start by thanking those who are here today, and especially our witnesses, for providing us information, and by virtue of this hearing, giving this information to people across the country, and hearing in this case, not just from witnesses, but in some cases, people who lived through some of these scams, impacted by highly convincing versions of family emergency scams, including Gary Schildhorn, that we heard from first. We also heard from Mr. Weismann, who spoke broadly about how scams--broadly about scams themselves and also how he has seen them evolve over his 12 years of operating scamicide and posting a scam of the day, and as you said, Mr. Wiseman, never running out of material, unfortunately. Mr. Romanoff elaborated more on the rapid growth and evolution of artificial intelligence and how this technology enables scammers to deploy scams quickly and cheaply, and how AI is the perfect tool to deceive even the most skeptical consumer. Dr. Ekin shared some of his research on fraud in the health care space, and we are grateful for that. It is clear that Federal action is needed. You heard that from some of our colleagues. The action is needed to put up guardrails to protect consumers from AI, while also empowering those that can use it for good, and yet we need to be cautious of bias in AI. Algorithms, just like humans, need to be trained not to discriminate. I look forward to moving this conversation forward with my partners in the Senate on this--and on this committee. To that end, I, along with members of the committee, will be sending a letter to the Federal Trade Commission, FTC, asking that the agency appropriately track AI use in scams in its fraud and scams data base. For those watching this hearing today, I wanted to emphasize that the committee is here as a resource. Whether you just want to learn more or whether you have been targeted by a scam, or you have questions about a potential scam, you can access our new resources, including the committee's new--newest, I should say, Fraud Book with information, tips, and resources, our brochure on the threat of AI and scams, and a helpful bookmark that with quick tips on online--equipped tips online through the Aging committee's website. To get to that information, it is aging.senate.gov. If you receive a call, a text, an email, or social media message, and something seems off, and you are skeptical, as we all should be, unfortunately, even more and more skeptical, you can report this to the Aging Committee's fraud hotline. I will read this number twice. It is 1-855-303-9470. That is 1-855-303-9470. Aging Committee staff are available to answer your calls Monday through Friday 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Eastern Standard Time. You can also watch the video clip that we played at the beginning of the hearing and full clips from all of those individuals impacted on our website. I also want to just note for the record, some--every year we have this Fraud Book, but we don't always highlight the top ten scams. I am just going to read them into the record, so it is clear to people. These are the top ten scams for the calendar year 2022. Number one, financial services, impersonation and fraud. Number two, health care and health insurance scams. Number three, robocalls and unsolicited calls. Number four, tech scams and computer scams. Number five, romance scams. Number six, Government imposter scams, like the IRS that we noted earlier. Number seven, sweepstakes and lottery scams. Number eight, identity theft. Number nine, business impersonation and shopping scams and Number ten, person in need and grandparent scams that we just heard about. Also note for the record that at the beginning of the--that the beginning of the Fraud Book, starting on pages eight and nine, it is fashioned as an alert. Use of artificial scams--artificial intelligence and scams. Yve a couple of pages just on the AI threat. That is, of course, new information for so many people, so we appreciate folks reviewing that. I do want to urge all consumers, no matter what their age, young or old, or somewhere in between, to review our website, access our educational resources, watch the full video stories from our participants, which will be longer than the clips. I also want to note for the record that Ranking Member Braun will be submitting a statement, a closing statement for the record. Again, thank you again to all of our witnesses for contributing both their time and their expertise to this topic. If any Senators have additional questions for the witnesses or statements to be added to the hearing record, the record will be open until Monday, November 27th. Thank you all for participating today, and this will conclude our hearing. [Whereupon, at 11:31 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.] Closing Statement of Senator Mike Braun, Ranking Member Today, we heard from experts, advocates, and people who have experienced AI scams. Alongside educating older Americans on common patterns that lead to fraud, it's key that we continue to take a balanced approach. I hope that we can continue to learn from industry's promising advances and integrate these solutions gradually and carefully. We can encourage the natural transition of our digital infrastructure and services, rather than be forced to make larger leaps down the line. The challenge now is largely in identifying where these opportunities lie and applying them safely. I look forward to working with my colleagues on this, and I thank Chairman Casey for holding this hearing. ? ======================================================================= APPENDIX ======================================================================= ======================================================================= Prepared Witness Statements ======================================================================= [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] ======================================================================= Questions for the Record ======================================================================= [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] ======================================================================= Statements for the Record ======================================================================= [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]