[Congressional Record Volume 149, Number 57 (Wednesday, April 9, 2003)]
[House]
[Pages H2968-H2996]
From the Congressional Record Online through the Government Publishing Office [www.gpo.gov]
PROTECTION OF LAWFUL COMMERCE IN ARMS ACT
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Sessions). Pursuant to House Resolution
181 and rule XVIII, the Chair declares the House in the Committee of
the
[[Page H2969]]
Whole House on the State of the Union for the consideration of the
bill, H.R. 1036.
The Chair designates the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. Shimkus) as
chairman of the Committee of the Whole, and requests the gentleman from
Idaho (Mr. Simpson) to assume the chair temporarily.
{time} 1131
In the Committee of the Whole
Accordingly, the House resolved itself into the Committee of the
Whole House on the State of the Union for the consideration of the bill
(H.R. 1036) to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or
continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of
firearms or ammunition for damages resulting from the misuse of their
products by others, with Mr. Simpson (Chairman pro tempore) in the
chair.
The Clerk read the title of the bill.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursuant to the rule, the bill is
considered as having been read the first time.
Under the rule, the gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr. Sensenbrenner) and
the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. Conyers) each will control 30 minutes.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr.
Sensenbrenner).
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may
consume.
Mr. Chairman, logic and fairness dictate that manufacturers and
sellers should not be held responsible for the unlawful use of their
lawful products. H.R. 1036 will stop ludicrous lawsuits against the
manufacturer or seller of firearms for harm resulting from the criminal
or unlawful misuse of their products by prohibiting such lawsuits from
being filed in State or Federal court.
H.R. 1036, which has significant bipartisan support, does not
preclude lawsuits against a person who transfers a firearm or
ammunition knowing that it will be used to commit a crime of violence
or a drug trafficking crime. It also does not prevent lawsuits against
a seller for negligent entrustment or negligence per se.
The bill also includes several additional exceptions, including an
exception for actions in which a manufacturer or seller of a qualified
product knowingly and willfully violates any State or Federal statute
applicable to sales or marketing when such violation was a proximate
cause of the harm for which relief is sought. Other exceptions include
actions for breach of contract or warranty and an exception for actions
for damages resulting directly from a defect in design or manufacture.
Recent litigation against the tobacco industry that forced
multibillion dollar settlements has inspired lawsuits against a much
smaller firearms industry on theories of liability that would hold it
financially responsible for the harm caused, through no fault of its
own, by those who criminally misuse its products. While some of these
lawsuits have been dismissed, and some States have acted to limit them
in one way or another, the fact remains that these lawsuits continue to
be aggressively pursued. Such lawsuits threaten to rip tort law from
its moorings in personal responsibility and drive firearms
manufacturers out of business.
John Coale, one of the personal injury lawyers suing the gun
industry, told the Washington Post, ``The legal fees alone are enough
to bankrupt the industry.'' The police, along with our military, also
rely on the domestic firearms industry to supply them with reliable and
accurate weapons that can best protect them in the line of fire. The
best and most reliable guns are not going to be those designed under
requirements personal injury attorneys seek to impose in firearms
lawsuits.
Lawsuits seeking to hold the firearms industry responsible for the
criminal and unlawful use of its products are brazen attempts to
accomplish through litigation what has not been achieved by legislation
and the democratic process. Various courts have correctly described
such suits as ``improper attempts to have the court substitute its
judgment for that of the legislature.'' As explained by another Federal
judge, ``The plaintiff's attorneys simply want to eliminate handguns.''
Under the currently unregulated tort system, personal injury lawyers
are seeking to obtain through the courts stringent limits on the sale
and distribution of firearms beyond the court's jurisdictional
boundaries. Such State lawsuits in a single county could destroy a
national industry and deny citizens nationwide the right to keep and
bear arms guaranteed by the Constitution. Insofar as these lawsuits
have the practical effect of burdening interstate commerce in firearms,
Congress has the authority to act under the commerce clause of the
Constitution.
In 1985, one Federal judge said it would be nonsensical to claim that
a product can be defective under the law when it has no defect. He
predicted that the plaintiff's unconventional application of tort law
against such a product would also apply to automobiles, knives and even
high-calorie food.
In 1999, another judge observed that cities suing the firearms
industry ``have envisioned the dawning of a new age of litigation
during which the gun industry, liquor industry, and purveyors of junk
food would follow the tobacco industry in reimbursing government
expenditures.'' Only a few years later, that disastrous new age of
litigation is already upon us, and even once-fanciful lawsuits against
fast food companies are rapidly proliferating.
Congress must do what it can to stop the slide down this slippery
slope. It is time for Congress to fulfill its constitutional duty and
exercise its authority under the commerce clause to prevent a few State
courts from bankrupting the national firearms industry and denying all
Americans their fundamental right to bear arms.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to control the time
of the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. Conyers) in opposition to the bill.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Is there objection to the request of the
gentleman from North Carolina?
There was no objection.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself as much time as I may consume.
First of all, I think I want to clarify this debate because, starting
at 7:30 this morning, eight o'clock this morning, I was on a television
show debating about the bill I thought, and I heard all of the
arguments related to how trial lawyers are irresponsible, how judges
are irresponsible. I heard arguments about whether people ought to have
guns or not have guns.
I submit to my colleagues that this debate is not about any of that.
It is about a bill which I believe is an extreme bill, and I want to
call my colleagues' attention to five points.
This is reform. I believe it is extreme reform. We are not talking
about capping recoveries or putting a limit on recoveries from gun
manufacturers, sellers, dealers, importers. We are talking about
immunizing them from their liability for negligence. So this is extreme
reform. It is not the kind of reform that we have been talking about in
other contexts.
The second point I want to make is, this is unprecedented reform. The
reform that this bill would provide is not available to any other
manufacturer in America. It is not available to the automobile
industry. It is not available to the pharmaceutical industry. It is
not, despite what my chairman has said, about the tobacco industry. It
is not available to the tobacco or the cigarette industry. There is no
industry in America that has this kind of immunity. So it is
unprecedented reform that is being sought here.
The third point I want to make is, this is not well-thought-out
reform. There are major problems with this bill, and the committee made
no effort to try to debate those problems, consider those problems, try
to correct those problems.
There was no markup. If my colleagues heard the debate on the rule,
there really was no markup. The total markup of this bill in committee
took a total of 44 minutes, 44 minutes, and most of that was spent
debating and arguing about whether the previous question ought to have
been called. So these issues have not been considered. So we have got a
bill that has not been well thought out because nobody has taken the
time to worry about the specific provisions in the bill.
The fourth point I would make to my colleagues is that this is
unconstitutional reform. We have a bill that says,
[[Page H2970]]
not only will it apply henceforth, now and forever, forward, but it
will apply henceforth, now and forever, backwards. So if a person had a
lawsuit and they are already in court, they already had their trial,
their case is on appeal, this lawsuit would tell the appeals court to
dismiss that lawsuit. If a person is in the middle of selecting a jury,
if they have had motions and arguments about whether the conduct of the
manufacturer or seller or dealer has been outrageous, this legislation
would require that that lawsuit be dismissed. I think that
retroactivity is unconstitutional, and if it is not unconstitutional,
it is certainly unfair, unwise and unwarranted.
The fifth point I want to make about this legislation is that it is
politically motivated reform. The reason this bill had not gotten any
attention in the Committee on the Judiciary and that nobody wants to
take the time to really debate about it on the floor is that we are
rushing this bill through to the other side so that 2 weeks from now,
when the National Rifle Association convenes its national convention in
Florida, they will be energized, they will be motivated to do whatever
they need to do to support many of the supporters of this bill. There
is no reason that this bill has to be dealt with in the form that it is
being dealt with.
So it is extreme. It is unprecedented. It is not well thought out,
has not been debated. It is unconstitutional and if not
unconstitutional, certainly unfair and unwise, and it is politically
motivated.
Those five things should give us pause today, even aside from how
this bill got here. We should be concerned that this institution is
moving an irresponsible piece of legislation that is solely for the
benefit of some right-wing agenda.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as he may consume
to the gentleman from Florida (Mr. Stearns).
Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I thank the distinguished chairman of the
Committee on the Judiciary for his help in bringing this bill to the
floor. I also want to thank my colleagues, the gentleman from Louisiana
(Mr. John), the gentlewoman from Pennsylvania (Ms. Hart) and the
gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Boucher) for their support.
H.R. 1036, the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, as we
pointed out earlier, addresses the growing concerns of junk lawsuits
filed with the intention of driving the firearms industry out of
business by simply attempting to hold manufacturers and dealers liable
for the criminal acts of third parties who are totally beyond their
control.
These suits are different from other lawsuits that affect other
industries. The cities and counties are not representing specific
victims nor are they claiming specific damage against city property.
No, instead, they are simply suing because they happen to dislike a
product, its appearance, its distribution and how it markets its
product. Yet, under the Constitution, these companies have the
constitutional right to manufacture these products.
{time} 1145
Now, the previous speaker mentioned that this has been a very quick
process and he thought it was extreme. That is the word he used,
extreme, unprecedented. I have on this chart here 31 States which have
already passed legislation that prohibits frivolous lawsuits against
the firearm industry. So I would say to my colleagues, perhaps your
State, when you come on the House floor, you should look at this chart
to make sure before you vote whether your State has already passed a
bill that has recognized the absurdity of these lawsuits. As such these
States have acted to prohibit these types of suits, and H.R. 1036 is
designed to simply mirror what the States have done.
The goal is to seize the attempts at regulation through lawsuits that
achieve nothing except the blatant interference in a company's
constitutional right to sell and market a legal product and the
constitutional duty of the Congress to regulate the commerce of such
product. As I stated, creative legal theory does not make good public
policy.
We have seen through the course of these 30-plus suits that have come
to the courts that the courts are not buying the theory either. Many of
these suits have been dismissed. If my colleagues will bear with me, I
will show my colleagues another chart. I have just taken a sample of
the municipal lawsuits that have been dismissed, but I particularly
want to highlight the city of Boston's case. Twenty-nine manufacturers
and distributors and three associations were defendants. The alleged
claim: negligent distribution. Very simply, negligent distribution was
the claim against them, and 29 manufacturers were sued, distributors
and associations. Defective design, deceptive advertising, nuisance,
unjust enrichment. It was dismissed.
The city dropped its own suit saying it was too expensive for the
city to do and acknowledging that, through its vigorous prosecution,
the suit would need hundreds of thousands of pages of documents, would
go on forever and ever, and would not be realistic and concrete in its
steps to reduce illegal acquisition of firearms, and need to reduce the
incidence of firearm accidents and increasing public awareness
concerning the safe handling and storage of firearms. So the city of
Boston voluntarily decided this is wrong. Not the courts' decision, but
the city of Boston, after spending all this money.
We can go from New Orleans to Miami-Dade County. Twenty-six
manufacturers, distributors, three associations, and two dealers were
all sued simply because of their design, their distribution, and what
they said was negligent deceptive advertising. It was dismissed at
trial court and dismissed at appellate court. The Florida Supreme Court
denied this petition. So it went through every one. The trial court,
the appellate court, and the Supreme Court; and they all denied. So, my
colleagues, this bill we have here is simply mirroring what has been
done in the other 31 States.
Now, the question comes up, this bill is just a carve-out for the
firearms industry. The previous speaker mentioned that, so I would like
to bring to his attention other Federal legislation that protects
specific industries and other cases where these industries or groups
have found themselves uniquely threatened by bizarre or novel legal
situations.
For example, in 1994, we passed legislation, the General Aviation
Revitalization Act, which generally protects manufacturers of small
planes more than 18 years old against personal injury lawsuits in both
Federal and State courts.
Let us take another act, the Federally Supported Health Centers
Assistance Act of 1995, which declared certain community, migrant and
homeless health care center employees to be employees of the Public
Health Service, thus protecting them under the Federal Tort Claims Act
from malpractice lawsuits in State courts.
Another example: the Bill Emerson Good Samaritan Food Donation Act of
1996, which protects nonprofit organizations from State or Federal
lawsuits arising from the nature, age, packaging or condition of
apparently wholesome food received in good-faith donation to benefit
the needy.
The Volunteer Protection Act of 1997 provides limited immunity from
liability for volunteers acting on behalf of a nonprofit organization
and preempts inconsistent State law unless such law provides additional
protection.
The Biomaterials Access Assurance Act of 1998, which supersedes State
law to create an exclusion from liability for manufacturers of raw
materials or components of medical implants.
And let us not forget the Y2K Act of 1999, which limits punitive
damages and establishes special procedures for liability in Y2K cases.
The Public Health Improvement Act of 2000, which provides Good
Samaritan liability protection for users of cardiac defibrillators.
So, my colleagues, there are literally dozens and dozens of such
pieces of legislation, major pieces of legislation, very similar, very
like this bill that have been passed by Congress to protect and to
enforce protection against nuisance lawsuits.
Basically, what we have is a bill that has been cosponsored by 250
colleagues here in the House. And the bill did not just happen to
appear recently for anything like a convention of the NRA. This bill
has gone through Congress. In
[[Page H2971]]
the 107th Congress, we had almost 240 sponsors. It went through the
Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection and then the
full committee and passed. It went through the appropriate subcommittee
and the full Committee on the Judiciary in the 107th Congress. And we
now have even more support for it, so the time is right for passage on
the House floor.
My colleagues will hear a lot about victims' rights from opponents to
this bill. I want to emphatically state that this bill protects
victims' rights. Their right to sue is protected in this bill, relying
on product defect, negligent entrustment, and industry compliance with
Federal and State law. What is not protected is the use of creative
legal theory to sue the deepest pockets.
My colleagues, we have a good bill here, one that 250 Members of
Congress agree with. It is bipartisan, both sides. They agree that
using the courts to circumvent the constitutional authority of this
body to make public policy is an improper use of our judicial system.
I will close in a moment, but want to leave my colleagues with
several quotes. Dave Kopel, a professor at New York University Law
School, has stated that the cities do not have to win in court with
these nuisance suits. All they have to do is keep suing and suing. They
will kill the industry with the cost of defending the lawsuits. He has
got it right.
And then I would like to give another quote here. This is from a
former labor secretary in which he pointed out that if I had my way, we
would have laws restricting hand guns, and we are launching here an
effort to succeed where legislation has failed. The strategy may work,
but at the cost of making our frail democracy even weaker. You might
approve the outcome in these cases, but they establish a precedent for
other cases that you might find wildly unjust.
My point is that most nuisance lawsuits are taking to the courts an
attempt to bankrupt these manufacturers. It is clear the courts agree,
it is clear my colleagues agree, it is clear the State legislatures
agree; and so I urge my colleagues to support the bill.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself 30 seconds, just long enough
to respond to the gentleman that I am glad he demonstrated the court
process is working. Most of the cases he talked about have been
dismissed if they did not have merit, and that is exactly what should
happen to them. And to distinguish for him between all of those cases,
I know he would like to put this bill in the category of volunteer
protections and Good Samaritans, but I do not think he is going to
succeed on that front.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 3\1/4\ minutes to the gentleman from Virginia
(Mr. Moran).
Mr. MORAN of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, this legislation is an attempt
to provide special legal protection for the gun industry at the expense
of innocent Americans who have been harmed by the dangerous and
irresponsible actions of some firearm manufacturers and sellers.
The gun industry should be subject to the same legal standards of
conduct that govern all other people and industries in society. Guns
are only one of two consumer products, tobacco is the other, that are
exempt from Federal health and safety regulation. Consequently,
American consumers receive Federal protection from safety flaws in
products such as children's toys, pillows, car seats, but not from
deadly firearms.
This legislation is especially unconscionable in light of the gun
violence that continues to plague our Nation. Recently, Americans
watched in horror as citizens were gunned down by a sniper in Maryland,
the District of Columbia, and my home State of Virginia. While local
law enforcement officials are prosecuting the snipers for their crimes,
the families who lost loved ones in the attack have also filed civil
lawsuits to ensure that those responsible for arming the snipers also
are held accountable. This includes the gun store from which the
assault rifle used in the shootings mysteriously disappeared, along
with 238 other guns over the last 3 years alone. These are guns whose
intended purpose is to kill other human beings.
If H.R. 1036 is enacted into law, the families of the sniper victims
will be thrown out of court without a hearing. Given the suffering
experienced by gun violence victims, it is unconscionable for the gun
lobby to call their efforts to obtain justice frivolous. Gun violence
victims seeking their day in court have based their lawsuits on long-
standing rights well established in our Nation's common law.
In addition to the civil lawsuits brought by the families of the
sniper victims, another part of the fight to obtain justice for gun
violence victims includes the NAACP's current legal action against
firearms manufacturers and dealers who have facilitated the supply of
hand guns to an unlawful underground market. Gun violence is the number
one killer of African Americans ages 15 to 24. And though African
Americans represent 13 percent of the total U.S. population, they
account for the majority of gun homicides. The legal remedy being
sought by the NAACP does not involve damages, but rather calls on the
gun industry to behave responsibly.
In the words of a New York Times editorial, ``Under cover of war, the
domestic gun industry is prodding Congress to anoint it as the
``arsenal of democracy'' by enacting a disastrous bill to give gun
makers and dealers unprecedented protection from liability suits by
State and local governments and victims of gun violence.
``The passage of this bill would do nothing for average gun owners.
What the sudden pressure to get it through Congress makes clear is that
the gun lobby, while theoretically concerned with the right to bear
arms, is chiefly worried about protecting the right to make money off
of them.''
We, the representatives of the people, not the special interests,
should reject this legislation which would undermine the legal rights
of individuals and communities and provide unwarranted special immunity
for the firearm industry. Let us do the right thing. Let us vote this
bill down.
{time} 1200
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman
from Virginia (Mr. Boucher) to show the bipartisan nature of the
support for this bill.
(Mr. BOUCHER asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)
Mr. BOUCHER. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr.
Sensenbrenner) for yielding me this time. I urge passage of this
legislation by the House, and I am pleased to join with the gentleman
from Florida (Mr. Stearns), the gentleman from Louisiana (Mr. John),
and the gentlewoman from Pennsylvania (Ms. Hart) as one of the
principal cosponsors of the measure.
Lawsuits which would impose liability on firearm manufacturers,
distributors and dealers for misuse of the firearm by someone who comes
into possession of it are thinly veiled attempts to impose gun control
by judicial means. If liability is imposed on manufacturers in these
circumstances, the result will be a large reduction in the availability
of firearms for purchase by sportsmen and other law-abiding citizens.
The rights of hunters, of gun collectors, and those who purchase
firearms for self-defense must be considered. The lawsuits which this
bill seeks to end leave little room for the consideration of those
rights.
The lawsuits are merely gun control by a nonlegislative means. I
happen to oppose gun control, but even if I favored it, I would be for
this bill which will remove gun control policy-making from the courts
and return it to the legislative arena where it belongs and where all
competing interests have an opportunity to be considered.
Mr. Chairman, this bill deserves, and it has, broad bipartisan
support. It will further the protection of gun-owner rights, and I urge
its passage by the House.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 4\1/4\ minutes to the gentlewoman
from New York (Mrs. McCarthy).
Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Chairman, I would like to straighten a
few things that are being said here on the floor: Number one, this has
nothing to do with guns, and it does not; number two, we are not trying
to shut down gun manufacturers, and we are not; number three, this is
not about gun control, and it is not.
What this is basically about is trying to have, as victims, our day
in court.
[[Page H2972]]
My colleague said that we have frivolous cases in court. Yet it is
funny because we always get into the case, yet we are turned back
because they say, go to the legislative branch. The legislative branch
is where you should be trying to change law. That is not going to
happen. This is a progun House and it is a progun Senate. Now we are
basically taking away every right that victims have.
Let me say why we look at the gun manufacturers on their
distribution: mainly because we do know that a lot of these illegal
guns that get on the streets come from certain areas and are going
through certain distributions to gun stores. Yet the legislature here
passed a law that our ATF agents cannot even go and inspect a gun store
except once a year, but only if they call them first.
What we hear is also, in my opinion, a reckless attempt at providing
special legal protection for the gun industry. We do not do it with
other manufacturers. This is different. The gun industry should be
subject to the same legal standards of conduct that govern every other
industry. What makes this particular industry so special, we all know
that it is the lobbyists.
But let me say what we are trying to do as far as the gun
manufacturers. We are asking them to make the guns safer. The
technology is out there. I asked the Committee on Rules last night to
have child safety locks able to be sent out with every gun that goes
out on the market. It certainly would be up to the consumer whether
they used that particular product on the gun or not, but we do know it
would save children's lives.
An attempt to improve the bill, as I said, we see unintentional
shootings commonly occur with children when they find an adult-loaded
handgun in a drawer or closet, and while playing with it shoot
themselves, a sibling or young friend. When reading the newspapers, one
sees that this happens all too frequently. No matter how careful
parents are, their child is still exposed to the potential negligence
of a neighbor or relative or other adult that the child visits.
Instead of providing immunity to a particular industry because of the
potential legal costs associated with a lawsuit, we should first focus
on the merits of the lawsuit. Many negligent suits brought against gun
manufacturers are based on the claim that the product they manufacture
and sell does not take into consideration the foreseeable dangers
associated with their product, for example, a child playing with a
handgun.
Although I happen to agree with these claims, I believe we could
limit them by ensuring the safety of a firearm if it falls into the
hands of a child. There are many things our gun manufacturers could do.
There are many things that have already been done against car dealers,
against barbecue pits, all in the name of safety, all for the safety of
our American people.
When the gun manufacturers start really taking seriously where their
guns are going, when the gun manufacturers start looking at the
technology that is out there to save lives, when the gun manufacturers
really start listening to, hopefully, the consumers and not the NRA.
And by the way, I do not think there is anybody in this Chamber, right
or left, that is trying to take away the right of someone to own a gun.
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman
from Louisiana (Mr. John) to show the continued bipartisan support for
this bill.
Mr. JOHN. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr.
Sensenbrenner) for yielding me this time.
Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong support of H.R. 1036. As an original
cosponsor of this piece of legislation, I also thank the gentleman from
Florida (Mr. Stearns) for his vision and leadership in introducing this
piece of legislation and allowing me to be part of the passage of this
legislation through committee and now here on the floor.
Mr. Chairman, frivolous lawsuits against gun manufacturers jeopardize
a legitimate, legal, and I underscore and repeat, legal industry which
is worth billions of dollars to our national economy. I cannot in good
conscience support any of these actions.
Being from Louisiana, officially known as the sportsmen's paradise,
and I am an avid hunter and fisherman in a region that depends heavily
on the sporting industry, I can easily see the potential that these
lawsuits have to seriously restrict not only our freedoms but our
constitutional rights. Not only would continued frivolous lawsuits
against gun manufacturers threaten the firearm industry, but it would
have an enormous impact on many other businesses that are dependent on
this industry. These lawsuits could have serious negative economic
impact on the various hunting and sportsmen-related industries which
depend on safe, reliable gun manufacturing.
However, of even more concern to me is the possibility that if we
continue to allow municipalities across our country to file these suits
against lawful gun manufacturers, we risk restricting freedoms of
something very dear to me, and that is rural America where the use of
firearms is a very important and integral part of our life-style and
our livelihoods. Rather than acting as a deterrent, as many of the
opponents of this legislation consider irresponsible, lawsuits such as
these will take money away from beneficial programs and safety
programs.
The firearms industry has committed millions of dollars to the safe,
legal and responsible sale and use of their product. Millions of
dollars are spent each year by this industry to promote numerous
preventive safety designs and educational programs that promote safe
handling of firearms. I would hate to see the funding for these
programs wasted, defending these needless lawsuits that in all
probability will be thrown out and dismissed in our Nation's court
systems.
In response to these attacks on our Nation's firearms industry, many
States, including Louisiana, have enacted laws. I urge Members to go
along with 31 of the other States that have presented laws that have
thrown out these lawsuits and urge support of H.R. 1036.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 4 minutes to the gentleman from
Virginia (Mr. Scott).
(Mr. SCOTT of Virginia asked and was given permission to revise and
extend his remarks.)
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, the bill has a number of
technical problems which we have already heard discussed, including one
for which I will have an amendment later in the debate. But the point I
want to make here is, on page 3 of the bill, under findings, the
findings have as the number one finding, citizens have a right
protected by the second amendment to the United States Constitution to
keep and bear arms.
It is interesting that the word is ``citizens,'' plural, not an
individual has a right. Just so there is no confusion, I think it is
important to get the record straight on what the second amendment says,
particularly in light of the fact that the supporters of the bill on
numerous occasions in committee hearings have been unable to cite a
single final judgment which supports the idea that an individual has
the right to bear arms under the second amendment.
This goes back to the United States v. Miller case in 1939, where the
court held that for the proposition, in the beginning of the second
amendment, mentioning well-regulated militia. It says that the
possession of a weapon must be reasonably related to a well-regulated
militia. The circuit courts have ruled on this.
The First Circuit held that the second amendment applies only to
firearms having a ``reasonable relationship to the preservation or
efficiency of a well-regulated militia.'' That is a 1939 case.
In 1996, in the Third Circuit, defendant's possession of machine guns
did not have a connection with militia-related activity required for
second amendment protections to apply.
The Fourth Circuit, a 1995 case, stated that courts have consistently
held that the second amendment only confers a collective right of
keeping and bearing arms which bear a reasonable relationship to the
preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia.
The Sixth Circuit, in 2000, held that the lower courts have uniformly
held that the second amendment preserves a collective rather than an
individual right.
[[Page H2973]]
The Seventh Circuit, the second amendment establishes no right to
possess a firearm apart from the role possession of the gun might play
in maintaining a State militia. That is a 1999 case.
The Eighth Circuit stated that the purpose of the second amendment is
to restrain the Federal Government from regulating the possession of
arms where such regulation would interfere with the preservation or
efficiency of the militia. That is a 1992 case.
The Ninth Circuit in 2002 stated that it is this collective rights
model which provides the best interpretation of the second amendment.
The Tenth Circuit, a 1977 case, to apply the amendment so as to
guarantee an appellant's right to keep an unregistered firearm which
has not been shown to have any connection with the militia, merely
because he is technically a member of the Kansas militia, would be
unjustifiable in terms of either logic or policy.
The Eleventh Circuit, a 1997 case concerning motivating the creation
of the second amendment, convinces us that the amendment was intended
to protect only the use or protection of weapons reasonably related to
a militia actively maintained and trained by the States.
I want the Record to reflect, in case someone has read the second
amendment, that our record is replete with what the second amendment
means.
[From the Legal Action Project]
A Sampling of Court Decisions that Support the Militia Interpretation
of the Second Amendment
u.s. supreme court
U.S. v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939).
Lewis v. United States, 445 U.S. 55 (1980).
u.s. courts of appeals
U.S. v. Wright, 117 F.3d 1265 (11th Cir.), cert. denied,
522 U.S. 1007 (1997).
U.S. v. Baer, 235 F.2d 561 (10th Cir. 2000)
U.S. v. Oakes, 564 F.2d 384 (10th Cir. 1977), cert. denied,
435 U.S. 926 (1978).
U.S. v. Swinton, 521 F.2d 1255 (10th Cir. 1975), cert.
denied, 424 U.S. 918 (1976).
U.S. v. Hancock, 231 F.3d 557 (9th Cir. 2000), cert.
denied, 121 S. Ct. 1641 (2001).
U.S. v. Finitz, 234 F.3d 1278 (9th Cir. 2000), cert.
denied, 121 S. Ct. 833 (2001).
Hickman v. Block, 81 F.3d 98 (9th Cir.), Cert. denied, 519
U.S. 912 (1996).
U.S. v. Lewis, 236 F.3d 948 (8th Cir. 2001).
U.S. v. Farrell, 69 F.3d 891 (8th Cir. 1995).
U.S. v. Hale, 978 F.2d 1016 (8th Cir.), Cert. denied, 507
U.S. 997 (1993).
U.S. v. Nelson, 859 F.2d 1318 (8th Cir. 1988).
Cody v. U.S., 460 F.2d 164 (8th Cir.), cert. denied, 409
U.S. 1010 (1972).
U.S. v. Decker, 446 F.2d 164 (8th Cir. 1971).
U.S. v. Synnes, 438 F.2d 764 (8th Cir. 1971), vacated on
other grounds, 404 U.S. 1009 (1972).
Gillespie v. City of Indianapolis, 185 F.3d 693 (7th Cir.
1999), cert. denied, 528 U.S. 1116 (2000).
Quilici v. Village of Morton Grove, 695 F.2d 261 (7th Cir.
1982), cert. denied, 464 U.S. 863 (1983).
U.S. v. McCutcheon, 446 F.2d 133 (7th Cir. 1971).
U.S. v. Napier, 233 F.3d 394 (6th Cir. 2000).
U.S. v. Warin, 530 F.2d 103 (6th Cir.), cert. denied, 426
U.S. 948 (1976).
U.S. v. Day, 476 F.2d 562 (6th Cir. 1973).
Stevens v. U.S., 440 F.2d 144 (6th Cir. 1971).
U.S. v. Johnson, Jr., 441 F.2d 1134 (5th Cir. 1971).
Love v. Pepersack, 47 F.3d 120 (4th Cir.), cert. denied,
516 U.S. 813 (1995).
U.S. v. Johnson, 497 F.2d 548 (4th Cir. 1974).
U.S. v. Rybar, 103 F.3d 273 (3rd Cir. 1996), cert. denied,
522 U.S. 807 (1997).
U.S. v. Graves, 554 F.2d 65 (3rd Cir. 1977).
Eckert v. City of Philadelphia, 477 F.2d 610 (3rd Cir.),
cert. denied, 414 U.S. 839 (1973).
U.S. v. Tot, 131 F.2d 261 (3rd Cir. 1942), rev'd on other
grounds, 319 U.S. 463 (1943).
U.S. v. Toner, 728 F.2d 115 (2d Cir. 1984).
U.S. v. Friel, 1 F.3d 1231 (1st Cir. 1993).
Thomas v. City Council of Portland, 730 F.2d 41 (1st Cir.
1984).
U.S. v. Cases, 131 F.2d 916 (1st Cir. 1942), cert. denied
sub nom.
Velaquez v. U.S., 319 U.S. 770 (1943).
u.s. federal district courts
Golt v. City of Signal Hall, 132 F. Supp. 2d 1271 (C.D.
Cal. 2001).
Olympic Arms v. Magaw, 91 F. Supp. 2d 1061 (E.D. Mich.
2000).
U.S. v. Willbern, 2000 WL 554134 (D. Kan. Apr. 12, 2000).
U.S. v. Bournes, 105 F. Supp. 2d 736 (E.D. Mich. 2000).
U.S. v. Boyd, 52 F. Supp. 2d 1233 (D. Kan. 1999), aff'd,
211 F.3d 1279 (10th Cir. 2000).
U.S. v. Henson, 55 F. Supp. 2d 528 (S.D. W. Va. 1999).
U.S. v. Visnich, 65 F. Supp. 2d 669 (N.D. Ohio 1999).
U.S. v. Caron, 941 F. Supp. 2d 238 (D. Mass. 1996).
Mascowitz v. Brown, 850 F. Supp. 1185 (S.D.N.Y. 1994).
U.S. v. Kruckel, 1993 WL 765648 (D.N.J. Aug. 13, 1993).
Krisko v. Oswald, 655 F. Supp. 147 (E.D. Pa. 1987).
U.S. v. Kozerski, 518 F. Supp. 1082 (D.N.H. 1981), cert.
denied, 496 U.S. 842 (1984).
Vietmanese Fishermen's Association v. KKK, 543 F. Supp. 198
(S.D. Tex. 1982).
Thompson v. Dereta, 549 F. Supp. 297 (D. Utah 1982).
U.S. v. Kraase, 340 F. Supp. 147 (E.D. Wis. 1972).
U.S. v. Gross, 313 F. Supp. 1330. (S.D. Ind. 1970), aff'd
on other grounds, 451 F.2d 1355 (7th Cir. 1971).
state courts
Arnold v. Cleveland, 616 N.E.2d 163 (Ohio 1993).
State v. Fennell, 382 S.E.2d 231 (N.C. 1989).
U.S. v. Sandidge, 520 A.2d 1057 (D.C.), cert. denied, 108
S. Ct. 193 (1987).
Kalodimos v. Village of Morton Grove, 470 N.E.2d 266 (III.
1984).
Masters v. State, 653 S.W.2d 944 (Tex.App. 1983).
City of East Cleveland v. Scales, 460 N.E.2d 1126 (Ohio
App. 1983).
State v. Vlacil, 645 P.2d 677 (Utah 1982).
In Re Atkinson, 291 N.W.2d 396 (Minn. 1980).
State v. Rupp, 282 N.W.2d 125 (Iowa 1979).
Commonwealth v. Davis, 343 N.E.2d 847 (Mass. 1976).
Burton v. Sills, 248 A.2d 521 (N.J. 1968), appeal
dismissed, 394 U.S. 812 (1969).
Harris v. State, 432 P.2d 929 (Nev. 1967).
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentlewoman
from Michigan (Mrs. Miller).
{time} 1215
Mrs. MILLER of Michigan. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the gentleman
yielding me this time.
Mr. Chairman, our Nation's Founding Fathers, in their wisdom,
guaranteed the people of America the fundamental right to keep and to
bear arms in the second amendment of our Constitution. This right
allows Americans to keep and own firearms for the protection of
themselves, their families, and their property. This right has helped
to guarantee freedom for every American citizen for over 214 years.
Unfortunately, there are many people in our Nation who will do anything
to destroy this freedom; and as a Member of Congress, I am fighting to
uphold this basic right.
Opponents of the second amendment have tried for years to pass laws
to restrict the people's access to firearms. In that effort they have
been successful in making the firearms industry one of the most
regulated industries in America, but that is not enough for the
antifirearm fanatics. Now they are attempting to sue domestic
manufacturers of firearms with the express purpose of putting them out
of business; and if these efforts are successful, not only would it
destroy jobs and companies that produce a product that the Constitution
itself protects our citizens' right to own, they would do serious
damage to our homeland and our national security.
Currently there are lawsuits attempting to punish companies that make
firearms because of the actions of criminals. These lawsuits threaten
the viability of these firms; and if successful, they would not keep
firearms out of the hands of criminals, but they would potentially keep
them out of the hands of those who protect our freedom. Take, for
instance, the Colt Company, which is the target of one of these
lawsuits. This company not only produces small arms, but it is also the
sole provider of the M-16 rifle that is being used so ably by our
troops in Operation Iraqi Freedom and by our soldiers fighting the war
on terror worldwide. If this company is destroyed, where will our
soldiers get the arms that they need to protect our freedoms? From
France? From Germany?
What about the Beretta USA Company, another target of these lawsuits?
This company supplies the standard sidearm for all branches of the
Armed Forces and provides firearms to countless law enforcement
agencies across our Nation. If this company is destroyed, where will
soldiers and law enforcement officers get the arms to protect our
freedom and to keep our streets safe?
Take the Sig Arms Company, another target of these lawsuits. This
company makes a sidearm of choice carried by the men and women who
protect the President of the United States, as well as the official
sidearm of the Navy SEALS.
The aim of such suits is clear, to destroy our American firearms
industry, in a blatant attempt to deny law-abiding citizens access to
firearms and to stop them from exercising their constitutional right to
keep and to bear arms. Not only are the rights of American citizens at
stake but so is our national security. The men and women in
[[Page H2974]]
the armed services and the men and women in law enforcement need to
have the best possible firearms to protect our freedom, to defeat
terrorists, and to safeguard our streets. We must protect freedom. I
urge my colleagues to support this important legislation.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 4 minutes to the gentleman from
Massachusetts (Mr. Delahunt).
Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I am genuinely concerned about our
justice system in this country, both civilly and criminally. This bill
is but the latest in a series of assaults by this Congress on the right
of the people to apply to the courts to seek redress for their
grievances. And it is also but the latest in a series of assaults on
the right of the States to provide remedies under the law for the
wrongs done to their citizens. If we continue, Mr. Chairman, we will
have a justice system that is available only for business litigation.
That is the direction in which we are going.
What situation, what emergency would have prompted the sponsors of
this bill to deny victims their remedies? According to the findings in
this bill, the emergency is ``lawsuits have been commenced'' against
the gun industry. I am not kidding. The reason given is that lawsuits
have been commenced. One wonders what other industry would have the
clout, let alone the audacity, to come to Congress and seek blanket
immunity from the consequences of their misbehavior because lawsuits
have been commenced against it.
Lawsuits are commenced every day. Most of them never reach a jury.
Sure enough, when I asked the industry witness how many of these
lawsuits had actually resulted in a jury verdict awarding damages
against the industry, he could come up with only one case in which a
verdict had been returned, one case; and then it turned out upon
further questioning that even that one award had been reversed on
appeal. The truth is that this legislation will continue to erode our
justice system as well as the 10th amendment. I cannot believe that
this body continues to allow the rights of the individual States to be
encroached on by the Federal Government. Whatever happened to
devolution? Whatever happened to the 10th amendment?
The State courts have been doing their job well. There has been no
rash of questionable verdicts, no epidemic of excessive jury awards. In
fact, the proponents have been unable to point to a single final
judgment in any court in this country that supports the rationale for
this legislation, not one. So, please, let us hear no more about
lawsuits that have been commenced. Let them ask for immunity when the
courts actually start holding them accountable for their negligence.
That is when the proponents of this bill should come back to this
Congress.
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman
from New York (Mr. Boehlert), the chairman of the Committee on Science.
(Mr. BOEHLERT asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)
Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong support of H.R. 1036,
the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. The purpose and intent
of this bill are simple. Legal manufacturers of legal products that are
sold legally and purchased legally and used legally should not be held
liable for the subsequent illegal misuse of their products somewhere
far down the chain. Our Nation's firearm manufacturers have been
providing high-paying, stable jobs for generations and have become part
of the American tradition. They are supplying our Nation's hunters and
target shooters and other sports enthusiasts with quality products
which, once again, are legally manufactured, legally sold, legally
purchased, and legally used for legal activities.
My district is home to three such manufacturers, Remington Arms, the
Ithaca Gun Company and Dan Wesson Firearms. Founded in 1816, Remington
Arms has been a faithful supplier of quality firearms to this country
in times of conflict and war and has been a leader in the commercial
market for sporting arms and ammunition and accessories. For over 187
years, the company has set the standard for safe and responsible use of
firearms.
The Ithaca Gun Company was founded in 1880, and it too has a proud
and rich history. Today with the fast pace and rush-rush mode that is
evident in just about everything, it is refreshing to know that every
Ithaca gun is still finished and assembled in the same way as it was
over 100 years ago, by the hands of a skilled Ithaca gun maker.
Dan Wesson Firearms, located in Norwich, New York was founded back in
1968 by the great grandson of D.B. Wesson, co-founder of Smith &
Wesson. They too place an enormous amount of skill and craftsmanship
into each firearm they manufacture.
Remington Arms, Ithaca Gun Company and Dan Wesson Firearms are three
classic examples of responsible American companies that take pride in
producing quality products while at the same time employing thousands
of American men and women, and I am proud to have them located in my
district.
It is time we put a stop to frivolous lawsuits against our Nation's
responsible gun manufacturers. Those frivolous lawsuits not only cost
manufacturers dearly in terms of what should be unnecessary legal
costs, but they also cost America's sportsmen dearly in terms of the
added charge which has to be built into the price of every firearm for
those same unnecessary legal costs.
Support our responsible firearm manufacturers and our honest law-
abiding sportsmen, and join me in support of this measure.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from New
Jersey (Mr. Pascrell).
Mr. PASCRELL. Mr. Chairman, to the gentlewoman from Michigan, I need
to respond because no one is suggesting in this body today that we
change the right to bear arms, and to suggest that those who oppose
this legislation are aiding criminals and terrorists and hurting our
Armed Forces and uniformed law enforcement is incredible pap. That is
what it is; and as a vet, I resent it.
Those who profit from the sale of guns have the ultimate
responsibility to safeguard the American public by ensuring that their
weapons do not get into the wrong hands, but we all know that this is
often not the case. We have all heard on far too many occasions stories
of dealer negligence that results in tragic consequences.
Take the case of David Lemongello. David is a graduate of Bloomfield
High School in my district, had his career as a police detective, his
lifelong dream, cut short from the injuries he sustained at the hands
of a career criminal with a gun. And where did the gun that shot David
three times come from? How did a criminal get his hands on the gun that
ended David's career? It was thanks in large part to an irresponsible
gun dealer. The criminal got it from a gun trafficker who bought it
along with 11 other handguns from a West Virginia gun dealer.
Do my colleagues not think that if someone comes into a gun shop with
thousands of dollars and purchases a dozen handguns that an automatic
red flag should go up? Do my colleagues not think that there should be
some accountability when gun dealers do not take even the minimum
amount of oversight? Is there anyone here willing to tell David
Lemongello to his face that he does not have the right to hold this
irresponsible gun dealer accountable for the pain and the anguish he
has suffered? Who here will tell David Lemongello that he does not
deserve his day in court?
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman
from Iowa (Mr. King).
Mr. KING of Iowa. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for yielding me
this time.
I rise in support of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.
If I had listened to the opposition on this and we had followed that
path of logic, then auto dealers would be next. Lawful commerce in
anything, where there are far more accidents and far more injuries with
automobiles, I cannot disconnect the logic between the lawful
manufacturers of firearms. But the goal of this reckless law is to
financially destroy the firearms industry by filing countless meritless
lawsuits. These suits are based on the absurd legal theory that gun
manufacturers and dealers should be held responsible for the acts of
violent criminals who use safe, nondefective firearms to commit violent
crimes.
[[Page H2975]]
Although losses in court continue to mount for lawyers who bring
these baseless suits, the firearms industry is still saddled with the
cost of defending them in court. We should be outraged that certain
lawyers and gun-ban advocates feel that they can circumvent the
legislative process by moving their anti-second amendment efforts into
the courts.
I am a stalwart defender of our second amendment freedoms. They are
guaranteed to us by the Constitution, and I oppose any attempt to water
down the principles embodied in the second amendment. The first and
most important reason for the second amendment as intended by our
Founding Fathers was to provide a deterrent for tyrants.
{time} 1230
The right to keep and bear arms was meant to ensure that citizens can
defend our democratic republic from despots and those who seek to take
away our rights and free society.
Today, lawsuits against the firearms industry threaten to drive it
out of business. These businesses are vital to our national interest.
They supply our troops with weapons that they use in the war in Iraq.
Our homeland law enforcement officers also need the weapons
manufactured by these companies to defend us against terror and protect
our homeland. If we allow frivolous lawsuits to bankrupt the industry,
we are only hurting ourselves, both at home and abroad.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from
Illinois (Mr. Emanuel).
(Mr. EMANUEL asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)
Mr. EMANUEL. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong opposition to H.R. 1036,
the Gun Manufacturer's Liability Reform Act. Shielding gun makers,
dealers and distributors from liability and dismissing all pending
lawsuits is the most egregious form of corporate welfare I have yet to
see. This is special treatment for a special interest. The gun industry
would become the envy of every industry. It is a back-handed insult to
tens of thousands of victims of gun violence each year.
Let us apply the Firestone tire test. We should all agree that those
who have been in accidents caused by Firestone tires have the right to
their day in court. If Firestone had provisions similar to H.R. 1036,
Americans whose families were either killed or injured would lose their
right and there would be no recourse.
On July 3, 1999, 43-year-old Ricky Byrdsong, basketball coach for
Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois, was out walking with his
children. During his walk, he was shot and killed with a gun which was
illegally purchased from a dealer who probably should have known better
than to sell the weapon.
The family of Ricky Byrdsong, the coach, is currently suing. This
bill on this floor today would automatically dismiss that suit without
so much as a trial. I do not know if the dealer is liable in this case,
but that is not my decision to decide, nor is it the people of this
body's decision to decide.
Mr. Chairman, this bill denies Americans one of their most basic
rights. I understand that the issue of gun violence is a contentious
one, but I think we can all agree that this body should work to protect
our citizens, not the Washington gun lobby. This is special protection
for a very special interest.
This is a bad bill, which sets a dangerous precedent, and I strongly
urge my colleagues on both sides, people of good values and good
principles, to vote against this legislation.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from Rhode
Island (Mr. Langevin).
Mr. LANGEVIN. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for yielding me
time.
Mr. Chairman, I rise today in strong opposition to H.R. 1036. By
protecting an industry from liability, we eliminate a major incentive
for it to operate in a safer way, and ultimately we make people and
corporations less accountable for questionable manufacturing and sales
practices.
As an individual who was paralyzed at the age of 16 when a police
officer's gun accidentally discharged and severed my spinal cord, I
know how a person's life may be changed by gun violence or accidents.
Our society frequently witnesses the needless misfortunes that can
take place due to firearm mishandling, and we should strive to make our
society safer. Yet this bill would move us away from that goal. Too
many people who suffer from gun violence and accidents are victims of
an industry that fights every effort to improve the safety of its
products, including the installation of chamber load indicators and
trigger locks, features that could have changed the course of my life.
They are victims of dealers who look the other way as their wares are
used for criminal activity, and gun control laws that are not
sufficiently enforced. Supporters of the bill claim that it has
exemptions to permit lawsuits in the case of clear knowledge of
criminal activity or negligence. But they will not mention that the
exemptions are so narrowly worded that they are meaningless.
They also make intriguing parallels about how the gun industry is
currently being held to a higher standard than other industries, while
not recognizing the exemptions from Federal consumer safety laws that
the gun industry enjoys.
I am deeply disappointed that this measure will not do a single thing
to prevent gun violence or accidents in the United States. However, I
am even more disturbed that it may exacerbate our existing problem.
Mr. Chairman, I strongly urge my colleagues to vote against H.R.
1036, so that we can demonstrate our commitment to a safer America.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from
Oregon (Mr. Blumenauer).
Mr. BLUMENAUER. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the gentleman's courtesy
in permitting me to speak on this.
It is unfortunate that people are willing to accept the astoundingly
high rate of gun violence in this country. Every Member of this Chamber
knows people who have been touched by needless gun violence, and we are
set to accept more damage unless and until we are willing to accept
common-sense steps to reduce gun violence that will save lives. The
step that my colleague from Rhode Island just mentioned will not
interfere with anybody's right to hunt, will not interfere with the
manufacture; it simply extends the simple common-sense consumer
protection that we accept for toy guns to real guns. It is not rocket
science, it is not a lack of compassion, it is just simply doing the
right thing.
I believe we will live to see the day when we stop the dark side of
gun trafficking in this country, when we extend simple common-sense
consumer protections, when we have the courage in this Chamber to fund
adequate enforcement of the gun laws that we have. But, until that day
comes, for God's sake, do not make the situation worse.
Extending protections to the gun industry, unnecessary protections,
alone, is not going to move us forward. It is a step backward. It
reinforces the notion that we are powerless, that all we have to do is
pander to the people who make a career out of twisting the second
amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I strongly urge that we reject this proposal today and
avoid the shameful record that we have with unnecessary gun laws that
lose lives and shatter families.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I thank all Members who have participated in the
debate. I would just reemphasize the five points that I made at the
outset of this debate.
This legislation is extreme. It is unprecedented because it will give
gun manufacturers, sellers and dealers immunity that no other industry
has in America. It is not well thought out, because it has not gone
through the process in a proper way and had amendments put on it. It is
unconstitutional. Finally, it is politically motivated.
Mr. Chairman, I urge my colleagues to vote against this legislation.
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself the balance of my
time.
Mr. Chairman, the proponents of this bill have stated time and time
again that courts have determined that those who file lawsuits against
the firearms industry are doing so because they want to bankrupt the
industry. They want to bankrupt the industry through
[[Page H2976]]
legal fees, and even though they might not win their cases in court,
there is no reimbursement for the defense costs that have to be run up
once a lawsuit is filed.
Now, anybody who uses a firearm for illegal purposes, we should throw
the book at. I certainly support what has gone on in Richmond in
Project Exile, and I hope we can give the Justice Department enough
money to extend Project Exile nationwide. I also strongly support the
InstaCheck system that is designed to keep firearms out of the hands of
people who have not been lawfully able to possess those firearms for
over 70 years, convicted felons, adjudicated mental incompetents and
some other people.
But we should not use the judicial process to bankrupt an industry
that produces a legal product. If you do not like the product,
introduce a bill here to make it illegal. I will vote against it, but
at least you can deal with that directly through the democratic
process, rather than going through the back door and trying to get the
courts to do what legislatures and the Congress have failed to do.
Mr. JOHNSON of Illinois. Mr. Chairman, I would like to express my
strong opposition to the words used by Congresswoman Cubin in reference
to an amendment to H.R. 1036 offered by Congressman Watt. While her
comments were within the parliamentary rules of the House of
Representatives, they were clearly improper and offensive, and had at
least the appearance of racial basis. I appreciate Congresswoman
Cubin's subsequent apology, and her statement that her words were
incomplete and misinterpreted, but I unequivocally denounce the
original statement, and it is my sincere hope that it is not
interpreted as indicative of the views and sentiments of this
distinguished body.
Mrs. MALONEY. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in opposition to H.R. 1036,
The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.
The sole intent of this bill is to divert the responsibility of gun
manufacturers in ensuring the safe distribution of firearms in our
society. Passage of this legislation would cripple the public's ability
to seek justice in instances of negligence by these manufacturers.
Why are we exempting the gun industry from liability provisions that
we apply to other manufacturers, even the makers of toy guns?
It is in the timing of this bill that the true intent of the Majority
becomes evident. This bill was conveniently taken off the schedule
during the sniper shootings in the Washington metropolitan area last
fall, but now been brought back just in time for the NRA's annual
conference.
Every step must be taken to keep these deadly weapons out of criminal
hands. We must look past the interests of lobbyists and look deeply at
the interests of the American public. If gun manufacturers and dealers
are involved with the illegal and irresponsible sales of firearms, then
it is essential that those who violate the law are held responsible.
A study conducted by The Department of Justice revealed that 12.7
percent of students age 12 to 19 reported knowing a student who brought
a firearm to school. This statistic speaks directly to the need for
providing additional safeguards to keep firearms away from children.
We should not be taking up legislation that prevents gun
manufacturers from being held accountable. Instead, we should be voting
on legislation that will help to prevent gun violence from even
occurring.
I urge my colleagues to oppose this legislation.
Mr. TOWNS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to H.R. 1036. If this
bill were to become public law, the gun industry would be granted more
liability protection than any other industry in America. I must say
that I've heard of throwing bones to constituency bases before, but I
might define this as the 96 ounce Peter Lugar's Porterhouse with all
the sides included.
The gun industry dumps thousands and thousands of guns onto the
streets in municipalities like New York and has never been held
responsible for their irresponsible actions. This bill would make it
impossible to hold the industry accountable for their actions.
H.R. 1036 would also prohibit future lawsuits and dismiss current
liability lawsuits underway against the gun industry. I am particularly
concerned about the timing of this bill given the lawsuit filed by the
NAACP against the gun industry, which is currently taking place in U.S.
District court in Brooklyn. This bill would prohibit that suit from
going forward.
Instead of dealing with the real problems that are confronting us
such as job security or a prescription drug bill for seniors, the
Republican leadership rushed this bill to the House floor before the
NRA convention begins in a couple of weeks. This bill should be
defeated.
Mr. UDALL of Colorado. Mr. Chairman, I will vote against this bill,
because I do not see why it is necessary or desirable for Congress to
act now to restrict just one kind of lawsuit, against just one kind of
manufacturer.
My reluctance to support such legislation is increased when it not
just prospective, but would require the immediate dismissal of cases
that are now being considered by the courts.
I am not a lawyer, and it seems to me that the courts are in a much
better position than I am to decide whether the people bringing these
lawsuits have valid claims or whether the complaints are frivolous.
It happens that this bill deals with lawsuits against firearms
manufacturers. But my concerns would be the same if the bill dealt with
similar lawsuits against the makers of other consumer products--for
example, automobiles, electronic appliances, or toys.
During the debate, some of the bill's supporters have argued that
firearms manufacturers are different because there is a Constitutional
right to keep and bear arms. But the freedom of the press is also
protected by the Constitution--yet I have not heard anyone say that
Congress has to cut off lawsuits against the makers of printing presses
or television cameras in order to sustain that right.
And, if the lawsuits covered by the bill are contrary to the
Constitution, I am confident that the judges--who are sworn to uphold
the Constitution--will dismiss them.
There is no doubt lawsuits can be costly, and I am not in favor of
frivolous lawsuits. But, based on what I know now, I think we in the
Congress should leave it to the courts to decide which of the lawsuits
covered by this bill are frivolous and which are not.
Therefore, I cannot support this legislation.
Mr. WAXMAN. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong opposition to H.R. 1036.
This bill is special interest legislation of the worst kind. It would
grant extensive immunity from liability to gun manufacturers and gun
dealers.
Under current law, gun manufacturers and gun dealers must act
responsibly. Like other businesses and individuals, if they act
negligently--or if they blatantly disregard the obvious consequences of
their actions--they may be held liable.
H.R. 1036 would eviscerate this protection. The bill says to gun
manufacturers and gun dealers: go ahead and ignore common sense,
disregard the consequences of your actions, and we will let you off the
hook. You are no longer responsible for your actions. This special
exemption will endanger our citizens and almost certainly cost lives.
Furthermore, this bill is drafted so broad and carelessly that it
could extend complete immunity from liability to gun dealers--even if
they sell weapons to suspected terrorists.
To resolve that ambiguity, I offered an amendment in the Rules
Committee to ensure that gun dealers are held accountable when they
sell weapons to people they know or suspect are members of terrorist
organizations, or people they know are likely to supply these weapons
to terrorist organizations.
But the Rules Committee refused to allow debate on my amendment. This
is simply inexplicable. My amendment would clarify that gun dealers who
sell to terrorists are not shielded from liability. Are we so captured
by the gun industry that we want to immunize the industry from
liability even when terrorists are involved?
There is an exemption in the bill that would hold dealers liable if
they know or should have known that a buyer would use the weapons to
injure himself or others. But what about the more dangerous prospect of
a suspicious buyer who is acquiring the weapons to give to someone else
in his terrorist organization.
These is an exemption in the bill to preserve civil liability if the
dealer is convicted of ``knowingly'' assisting the commission of a
violent act. But what about a gun dealer that has a strong suspicion--
not definite knowledge--that the weapon is going to end up in the hands
of a terrorist organization.
This is precisely the difference between criminal conduct and civil
negligence. Our civil liability laws require that people act
reasonably, even if there is no criminal penalty. And this is exactly
the protection this bill would eliminate.
We are in a war against terrorism. The last thing we should do is
immunize gun dealers who traffic with suspected terrorists. Yet that is
just what this bill does. It is dangerously shortsighted that the Rules
Committee blatantly ignored an opportunity to fix it.
Civil liability should be determined based on a comprehensive review
of all the relevant circumstances. But there should be no impregnable
shield to liability, because that only encourages careless and reckless
behavior. This is wrong, and it is dangerous. That's why this bill must
be defeated.
Mr. OTTER. Mr. Chairman, I rise today to address H.R. 1036, the
Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. In light of the concerted
efforts by opponents of the Second Amendment to destroy the gun
industry through frivolous lawsuits, it has become imperative we
provide manufacturers and sellers
[[Page H2977]]
of firearms and ammunition protection from these attacks. I find the
idea of holding an industry liable for the criminal misuse of their
legal products deplorable. Our nation cannot allow the innocent to pay
for the dealings of the guilty, or we serve to circumvent the very
foundation of the rule of law. Those individuals, not the makers of the
means, who commit violent crimes, with or without the use of a firearm,
must take personal responsibility for their actions through the
restitution and civil penalties affirmed by law.
Without this legislation, further unfounded lawsuits against the gun
industry will lead to an encroachment upon our second amendment rights.
Congress must work diligently to reduce the level of political rhetoric
surrounding gun control, protect the Second Amendment, and promote the
role of personal responsibility in society.
Mr. STARK. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in strong opposition to this
outrageously irresponsible legislation put forth by the Republican
Majority. Giving gun makers, gun dealers, and gun sellers total
immunity from product liability doesn't make our streets safer of our
neighborhoods any more secure.
The manner in which this bill finds its way to the floor deserves
some attention. It is my understanding that the Judiciary Committee
Majority developed this legislation in secret, bypassed the
subcommittee and prevented the Minority in Full Committee to make any
amendments to it--a trend all too familiar.
In the 107th Congress, similar gun liability legislation was
introduced, made its way to the House calendar, but didn't get far. The
media's focus of the sniper attacks in Washington, DC provoked an
outcry of horror as the country watched the violence of guns first-
hand. Ironically, that atrocious bill was put on the back burner. It
would have illuminated the legislation for what it was, autonomy from
product liability for the gun lobby.
So, here we are today to debate the issue in less traumatic times,
but the fact remains that this legislation has not changed--it is
reckless, pro gun political banter.
Proponents will tout fallacies that H.R. 1036 is considered necessary
to weed out frivolous lawsuits, and that this legislation will not
outlaw lawsuits brought by injured private citizens. Instead, they say,
it would simply prevent the gun industry from being held legally
responsible because a criminal misused a gun. In fact, these
allegations couldn't be farther from the truth. This bill will immunize
the gun industry from most lawsuits brought by anyone--including
private citizens and government entities.
Manufacturers for every other consumer product in this country must
adhere to strict regulations on product liability. However, my
colleagues on the other side of the aisle believe the gun industry
should be exempt from criminal and negligent acts.
Conveniently, this bill is being debated just weeks before the
National Rifle Association holds its annual meeting. That assures that
House Republicans can show up at their conference having passed a
priority bill for a huge campaign supporter.
I have been a long time supporter of stricter laws regulating guns in
our nation. I also oppose any individual or entity being granted
blanket immunity from product liability. I urge my colleagues to vote
against this bill that both weakens our gun laws and removes gun
manufacturers from liability when their products are used to kill.
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I oppose H.R. 1036, The
Protection of Lawful Commerce In Arms Act.
H.R. 1036 is nothing more than special interest legislation that
grants the gun industry legal immunity from the vast majority of civil
lawsuits. The bill generally prohibits any action ``brought by any
person against a manufacturer or seller of a qualified product, or a
trade association, for damages resulting from the criminal or unlawful
misuse of a qualified product by the person or a third party.''
This is a drastic departure from established principles of liability
law, which generally hold that persons and companies may be held liable
for the foreseeable consequences of their negligent or wrongful acts,
including the foreseeable criminal conduct of others. H.R. 1036 will
bar suits against not only gun manufacturers, but also dealers,
distributors, and trade associations.
If H.R. 1036 is passed, the well-accepted legal principle that gun
manufacturers are liable for failing to include feasible safety devices
that prevent injuries caused by foreseeable use or misuse of their
products will be wiped out. Likewise, there will be no legal liability
for dealers who have negligently sold numerous guns to gun traffickers.
This legislation goes beyond simply holding the gun industry liable
because a criminal misuses a gun. This legislation would make the gun
industry immune from suits for negligent sales and defective designs.
H.R. 1036 immunizes the gun industry from civil lawsuits by both
government entities and individual citizens, both of whom would lose
their legal rights to civil damages. This could have a profound impact
on the victims of gun violence.
At a minimum, the victims of gun violence have the right to have
their day in court. It is ludicrous to deny the families of persons
killed by negligently or recklessly manufactured or sold guns the right
to seek justice in courts of law. H.R. 1036 not only deprives gun
violence victims of the chance to bring future lawsuits, it dismisses
all qualified pending civil lawsuits against the gun industry in both
federal and state courts.
In my home state of Texas, for example, the family of murder victim
Raymond Lamb Payne will have their case against a pawn shop called EZ
Pawn dismissed. In that case, Raymond Lamb Payne was shot and killed by
David Lee Williams. David Lee Williams had been committed to a mental
institution and was by law not permitted to purchase a gun. David Lee
Williams' brother warned EZ Pawn that David Lee Williams had mental
illness, and had threatened to kill people. Despite the warning EZ Pawn
negligently sold David Lee Williams a gun. Five days later that same
gun was used to murder Raymond Lamb Payne. Under H.R. 1036, EZ Pawn
will be immune from liability and the family of Raymond Lamb Payne will
have their pending case dismissed.
The gun industry is one of only two industries, along with the
tobacco industry, that is exempt from federal safety oversight.
Lawsuits are an important tool, the only tool, available to motivate
the gun industry to act responsibly, and to engage in reforms that make
guns and gun sales safer. Lawsuits against the gun industry are not
frivolous, as gun proponents claim. That is clear from the fact that
many lawsuits against the gun industry have been successful in court.
If passed without substantial amendment, H.R. 1036 will deny justice
to America's gun violence victims. It will grant unfettered power to
gun manufacturers to produce unsafe guns. It will enable gun merchants
to negligently and recklessly sell their guns to criminals.
I oppose H.R. 1036 as it is presently drafted, and support the
Amendments offered by my colleagues.
Mr. VITTER. Mr. Chairman, today I rise in strong support of H.R.
1036, the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.
This bill protects licensed manufacturers and sellers of firearms or
ammunition from lawsuits based on criminal use by a third party. It's
patently absurd--and bad legal theory as well--to allow these sorts of
lawsuits to move forward. This legislation today is an important step
in stopping it.
Just as importantly, these lawsuits seriously threaten the Second
Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens. Time and again those who
would curtail firearm rights enshrined in our Constitution have tried
to regulate and legislate against our freedoms. The American people
rightly have opposed and rejected these misguided efforts. Now the same
folks are trying to use the courts and twist the law into achieving
their aims. Therefore, this response from Congress is not something
done to please any special interests other than the American people and
the Bill of Rights.
Thirty-one states have laws that prevent these junk lawsuits, and I
am pleased that my home state of Louisiana is one of them. The Federal
government should act quickly and I hope that the courts dismiss these
junk lawsuits as well.
I commend Congressman Stearns and the Judiciary Committee for their
hard work in producing this legislation, and I strongly urge my
colleagues to support this bill.
Mr. CARSON of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of H.R. 1036,
the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.
As my esteemed colleagues have discussed, H.R. 1036 would prohibit
civil lawsuits from being brought against gun manufacturers by parties
that have been injured by the unlawful use of firearms.
Mr. Chairman, I am a great believer in personal responsibility. It is
one of the key principles upon which America was founded. The
Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act would strengthen this great
notion.
Imposing liability on an entire industry for harm caused solely by
the unlawful actions of others is an abuse of the United States legal
system--it undermines public confidence in our judicial system and
threatens the viability of law-abiding companies.
Frivolous lawsuits against the firearm industry are nothing more than
an attack on the Second Amendment. It seems a logical anti-gun tactic
to me, if you can't lawfully prevent the sale of guns, then you go
after the people who sell guns and make them afraid to sell their
lawful products for fear of incurring substantial financial liability.
Thus far, these frivolous and merit-less lawsuits have had little
success in court. Their only success is in placing an enormous
financial burden on gun manufacturers. However, these litigation costs
are then passed onto consumers and makes it more difficult law-abiding
citizens to own guns. In the end, the ones who suffer the most are law-
abiding consumers.
H.R. 1036 would help protect our Second Amendment rights by
protecting legitimate
[[Page H2978]]
businesses that comply with federal, state and local gun laws. It is
time to stop these frivolous lawsuits that threaten to bankrupt a
responsible American industry by blaming the firearm industry for the
actions of criminals. I urge my colleagues to support the Protection of
Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.
Mr. PAUL. Mr. Chairman, I rise today as a firm believer in the second
amendment to the United States Constitution and an opponent of all
federal gun laws. In fact, I have introduced legislation, the Second
Amendment Restoration Act (H.R. 153), which repeals the misguided
federal gun control laws such as the Brady Bill and the assault weapons
ban. I believe that the second amendment is one of the foundations of
our constitutional liberties. However, Mr. Speaker, another foundation
of those liberties is the oath all of us took to respect the
Constitutional limits on federal power. While I understand and
sympathize with the goals of the proponents of the Protection of Lawful
Commerce in Arms Act (H.R. 1036), this bill exceeds those
constitutional limitations, and so I must oppose this bill.
It is long past time for Congress to recognize that not every problem
requires a federal solution. This country's founders recognized the
genius of separating power amongst federal, state and local governments
as a means to maximize individual liberty and make government most
responsive to those persons who might most responsibly influence it.
This separation of powers strictly limited the role of the federal
governments in dealing with civil liability matters; instead, it
reserved jurisdiction over matters of civil tort, such as gun related
alleged-negligence suits, to the state legislatures from which their
respective jurisdictions flow.
While I am against the federalization of tort reform, I must voice my
complete disapproval for the nature of these very suits brought against
gun manufacturers. Lawsuits for monetary damages form gun violence
should be aimed at the perpetrators of those crimes, not the
manufacturers! Holding manufacturers liable for harm they could neither
foresee nor prevent is irresponsible and outlandish. The company that
makes a properly functioning product in accordance with the law is
acting lawfully and thus should not be taken to court because of misuse
by the purchaser (or in many cases, by the one who stole the weapon). I
fear these lawsuits are motivated not by a concern for justice but by a
search for deep pockets, since gun manufactures have higher incomes
than the average criminals, and a fanatical anti-gun political agenda.
These attacks on gun manufacturers are disturbing, since the gun
industry provides our law enforcement and military with the necessary
tools needed to fight crime and defend our country. We should be
helping our law enforcement officers and military, not hurting them by
putting reputable gun manufacturers out of business.
However, Mr. Chairman, the most disturbing aspect of these lawsuits
is the idea that the gun, an inanimate object, is somehow responsible
for crimes. H.R. 1036 enables individuals to abrogate responsibility
for their actions, in that it allows gun dealers to be sued because
they ``should have known'' the gun would be used in a crime. Under H.R.
1036, gun dealers will still be unjustly forced to scrutinize their
customers for criminal intent.
This further erodes the ethics of individual responsibility for one's
own actions that must form the basis of a free and moral society. The
root problem of violence is not the gun in the hand, but the gun in the
heart: each person is accountable for the deeds that flow out of his or
her own heart. One can resort to any means available to complete a
crime (such as knives, fertilizer, pipes, and baseball bats). Should we
start suing the manufacturers of these products as well because they
are used in crimes? Of course not--its implications are preposterous.
Finally, Mr. Chairman, I would remind my fellow supporters of gun
rights that using unconstitutional federal powers to restrict state gun
lawsuits makes it more likely those same powers will be used to
restrict our gun rights. Despite these lawsuits, the number one threat
to gun ownership remains a federal government freed of its
constitutional restraints. Expanding that government in any way, no
matter how just the cause may seem, is not in the interests of gun
owners or any lovers of liberty.
In conclusion, while I share the concern over the lawsuits against
gun manufacturers, which inspired H.R. 1036, this bill continues the
disturbing trend toward federalization of tort law. Enhancing the power
of the federal government is not in the long-term interests of
defenders of the second amendment and other constitutional liberties.
Therefore, I must oppose this bill.
Mr. WILSON of South Carolina. Mr. Chairman, if there were previously
any doubt about the importance of a vibrant and vigorous firearms
industry in the United States, that doubt must surely have dissipated
in the months since Sept. 11, 2001.
Since that fateful day, American military personnel have been engaged
in operations overseas, against those who seek and plot our
destruction.
At this moment, a quarter of a million of our soldiers, sailors,
airmen and Marines are deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom.
Thousands of reservists are mobilized, not only to support operations
in Iraq, but also to support Operation Enduring Freedom--maintaining
the watch against acts of terrorism on American soil.
Thousands of Coast Guardsmen are protecting our coastlines. Tens of
thousands of federal, state, and local law enforcement and security
personnel are guarding our communities and our public facilities
And millions of private citizens are doing what they always have
done--protecting themselves, their families, and their neighborhoods,
One thing these Americans share in common is the need for firearms.
Another thing in common is the firearms that they use. In many
instances, our military, law enforcement, security personnel, and
private citizens use firearms made by the same manufacturers.
Unfortunately, frivolous lawsuits that have been filed against
firearms manufacturers, with the sole intent of driving them out of
business. These shameful efforts have been based upon outlandish and
widely-rejected theories of liability--theories that would be equally
absurd if applied against the manufacturers of any other lawful
product.
Many states have already acted to put an end to these unwarranted
lawsuits, which seek to hold the firearms industry responsible for the
acts of criminals.
It is time for Congress to do so nationwide. It's the right thing to
do for America's security.
Mr. SULLIVAN. Mr. Chairman, today, I rise in support of H.R. 1036,
the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act of 2003.
I am a cosponsor of this legislation for several reasons. First, I do
not believe that licensed gun manufacturers and merchants should be
held legally responsible for the unlawful use of their lawful products.
Second, I feel this constitutes a violation of tort law, and could send
a dangerous precedent for future lawsuits affecting many other
industries to come.
Tort law rests upon a foundation of individual responsibility in
which a product may not be defined as defective unless there is
something wrong with the product, rather than with the product's user.
Today, this Congress has the opportunity to address frivolous
lawsuits and protect a legal and law-abiding industry from legal
excess. We should pass this legislation to end the effort to drive law-
abiding firearm manufacturers, distributors, and dealers into
bankruptcy under the crushing weight of illegitimate lawsuits.
Congress has a constitutional authority to protect the interstate
commerce in firearms, a lawful and legal product. I urge my colleagues
to vote for this sensible legislation and set a precedent of legal
business protection.
The CHAIRMAN. All time for general debate has expired.
Pursuant to the rule, the committee amendment in the nature of a
substitute printed in the bill shall be considered as an original bill
for the purpose of amendment under the 5-minute rule and shall be
considered read.
The text of the committee amendment in the nature of a substitute is
as follows:
H.R. 1036
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of
the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the ``Protection of Lawful
Commerce in Arms Act''.
SEC. 2. FINDINGS; PURPOSES.
(a) Findings.--The Congress finds the following:
(1) Citizens have a right, protected by the Second
Amendment to the United States Constitution, to keep and bear
arms.
(2) Lawsuits have been commenced against manufacturers,
distributors, dealers, and importers of firearms that operate
as designed and intended, which seek money damages and other
relief for the harm caused by the misuse of firearms by third
parties, including criminals.
(3) The manufacture, importation, possession, sale, and use
of firearms and ammunition in the United States are heavily
regulated by Federal, State, and local laws. Such Federal
laws include the Gun Control Act of 1968, the National
Firearms Act, and the Arms Export Control Act.
(4) Businesses in the United States that are engaged in
interstate and foreign commerce through the lawful design,
manufacture, marketing, distribution, importation, or sale to
the public of firearms or ammunition that has been shipped or
transported in interstate or foreign commerce are not, and
should not, be liable for the harm caused by those who
criminally or unlawfully misuse firearm products or
ammunition products that function as designed and intended.
(5) The possibility of imposing liability on an entire
industry for harm that is solely caused by others is an abuse
of the legal system, erodes
[[Page H2979]]
public confidence in our Nation's laws, threatens the
diminution of a basic constitutional right and civil liberty,
invites the disassembly and destabilization of other
industries and economic sectors lawfully competing in the
free enterprise system of the United States, and constitutes
an unreasonable burden on interstate and foreign commerce of
the United States.
(6) The liability actions commenced or contemplated by the
Federal Government, States, municipalities, and private
interest groups are based on theories without foundation in
hundreds of years of the common law and jurisprudence of the
United States and do not represent a bona fide expansion of
the common law. The possible sustaining of these actions by a
maverick judicial officer or petit jury would expand civil
liability in a manner never contemplated by the Framers of
the Constitution, by the Congress, or by the legislatures of
the several states. Such an expansion of liability would
constitute a deprivation of the rights, privileges, and
immunities guaranteed to a citizen of the United States under
the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.
(b) Purposes.--The purposes of this Act are as follows:
(1) To prohibit causes of action against manufacturers,
distributors, dealers, and importers of firearms or
ammunition products for the harm caused by the criminal or
unlawful misuse of firearm products or ammunition products by
others when the product functioned as designed and intended.
(2) To preserve a citizen's access to a supply of firearms
and ammunition for all lawful purposes, including hunting,
self-defense, collecting, and competitive or recreational
shooting.
(3) To guarantee a citizen's rights, privileges, and
immunities, as applied to the States, under the Fourteenth
Amendment to the United States Constitution, pursuant to
section 5 of that Amendment.
(4) To prevent the use of such lawsuits to impose
unreasonable burdens on interstate and foreign commerce.
(5) To protect the right, under the First Amendment to the
Constitution, of manufacturers, distributors, dealers, and
importers of firearms or ammunition products, and trade
associations, to speak freely, to assemble peaceably, and to
petition the Government for a redress of their grievances.
SEC. 3. PROHIBITION ON BRINGING OF QUALIFIED CIVIL LIABILITY
ACTIONS IN FEDERAL OR STATE COURT.
(a) In General.--A qualified civil liability action may not
be brought in any Federal or State court.
(b) Dismissal of Pending Actions.--A qualified civil
liability action that is pending on the date of the enactment
of this Act shall be dismissed immediately by the court in
which the action was brought or is currently pending.
SEC. 4. DEFINITIONS.
In this Act:
(1) Engaged in the business.--The term ``engaged in the
business'' has the meaning given that term in section
921(a)(21) of title 18, United States Code, and, as applied
to a seller of ammunition, means a person who devotes, time,
attention, and labor to the sale of ammunition as a regular
course of trade or business with the principal objective of
livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of
ammunition.
(2) Manufacturer.--The term ``manufacturer'' means, with
respect to a qualified product, a person who is engaged in
the business of manufacturing the product in interstate or
foreign commerce and who is licensed to engage in business as
such a manufacturer under chapter 44 of title 18, United
States Code.
(3) Person.--The term ``person'' means any individual,
corporation, company, association, firm, partnership,
society, joint stock company, or any other entity, including
any governmental entity.
(4) Qualified product.--The term ``qualified product''
means a firearm (as defined in subparagraph (A) or (B) of
section 921(a)(3) of title 18, United States Code, including
any antique firearm (as defined in section 921(a)(16) of such
title)), or ammunition (as defined in section 921(a)(17) of
such title), or a component part of a firearm or ammunition,
that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign
commerce.
(5) Qualified civil liability action.--
(A) In general.--The term ``qualified civil liability
action'' means a civil action brought by any person against a
manufacturer or seller of a qualified product, or a trade
association, for damages or injunctive relief resulting from
the criminal or unlawful misuse of a qualified product by the
person or a third party, but shall not include--
(i) an action brought against a transferor convicted under
section 924(h) of title 18, United States Code, or a
comparable or identical State felony law, by a party directly
harmed by the conduct of which the transferee is so
convicted;
(ii) an action brought against a seller for negligent
entrustment or negligence per se;
(iii) an action in which a manufacturer or seller of a
qualified product knowingly and willfully violated a State or
Federal statute applicable to the sale or marketing of the
product, and the violation was a proximate cause of the harm
for which relief is sought;
(iv) an action for breach of contract or warranty in
connection with the purchase of the product; or
(v) an action for physical injuries or property damage
resulting directly from a defect in design or manufacture of
the product, when used as intended.
(B) Negligent entrustment.--In subparagraph (A)(ii), the
term ``negligent entrustment'' means the supplying of a
qualified product by a seller for use by another person when
the seller knows or should know the person to whom the
product is supplied is likely to use the product, and in fact
does use the product, in a manner involving unreasonable risk
of physical injury to the person and others.
(6) Seller.--The term ``seller'' means, with respect to a
qualified product--
(A) an importer (as defined in section 921(a)(9) of title
18, United States Code) who is engaged in the business as
such an importer in interstate or foreign commerce and who is
licensed to engage in business as such an importer under
chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code;
(B) a dealer (as defined in section 921(a)(11) of title 18,
United States Code) who is engaged in the business as such a
dealer in interstate or foreign commerce and who is licensed
to engage in business as such a dealer under chapter 44 of
title 18, United States Code; or
(C) a person engaged in the business of selling ammunition
(as defined in section 921(a)(17) of title 18, United States
Code) in interstate or foreign commerce at the wholesale or
retail level, consistent with Federal, State, and local law.
(7) State.--The term ``State'' includes each of the several
States of the United States, the District of Columbia, the
Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam,
American Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana
Islands, and any other territory or possession of the United
States, and any political subdivision of any such place.
(8) Trade association.--The term ``trade association''
means any association or business organization (whether or
not incorporated under Federal or State law) that is not
operated for profit, and 2 or more members of which are
manufacturers or sellers of a qualified product.
The CHAIRMAN. No amendment to the committee amendment is in order
except those printed in House Report 108-64. Each amendment may be
offered only in the order printed in the report, by a Member designated
in the report, shall be considered read, shall be debatable for the
time specified in the report, equally divided and controlled by a
proponent and an opponent, shall not be subject to amendment, and shall
not be subject to a demand for division of the question.
It is now in order to consider Amendment No. 1 printed in House
Report 108-64.
Amendment No. 1 Offered by Mr. Watt
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I offer Amendment No. 1.
The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will designate the amendment.
The text of Amendment No. 1 is as follows:
Amendment No. 1 offered by Mr. Watt:
In section 4(5)(A)(v), strike ``, when used as intended''.
The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Resolution 181, the gentleman from
North Carolina (Mr. Watt) and a Member opposed each will control 10
minutes.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Watt).
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, the bill, because it has not been properly considered
through the committee process, leaves a lot to be desired in terms of
drafting. This amendment is an effort to correct a real problem with
the bill, because the bill purports to give an exception for suits
where there are physical injuries or property damage resulting directly
from a defect in design or manufacture of the product when the product
is used as intended.
The problem is that there is no definition of ``when the product is
used as intended,'' so you are left with this situation.
I am sure my colleagues are going to tell you all kinds of things
where lawsuits could go forward under this rubric, but I think a number
of lawsuits are going to be foreclosed by this language, and I would
like to just give one or two examples.
First of all, I am holding in my hand 13 recall notices from
manufacturers of weapons. These recall notices recall a product, a gun,
a kind of gun, in a lot of cases because when it is accidentally
dropped, the gun will discharge.
Well, the question then becomes, if a gun is accidentally dropped, is
it being used as intended? Is that gun being used as intended if a
person accidentally drops the gun and it discharges?
Mr. Chairman, you have heard the gentleman from Rhode Island (Mr.
Langevin) say that was the exact situation which left him paralyzed
here, and we should leave no doubt that in those circumstances that
there should be liability.
Under this bill, this would apply even if the manufacturer had sent
out a recall notice and the person had not acted on that recall notice.
In fact, some of those recall notices say, do not do anything
immediately on this, we are going to get to you 6 months down the road,
and you can bring the gun
[[Page H2980]]
back to the dealer, and we will correct whatever problem there is with
the gun.
{time} 1245
So even if it is during that time period, there could be no potential
liability here under this bill.
I think this language is irresponsible; and I am sure my colleagues
are going to say, well, we did not intend that. But that is what the
bill says, I am reading from the language, and if we had considered
this bill in the regular process in the committee, perhaps we could
have done a better job. But they were so intent on getting this bill
out of committee to the floor and at the National Rifle Association's
convention 2 weeks down the road that they did not care about the
language.
Mr. Chairman, we should correct this, and this amendment allows us to
do that.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I rise to seek the time in opposition.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Utah (Mr. Cannon) is recognized for
10 minutes.
(Mr. CANNON asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)
Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
I would like to first thank the chairman of the full committee for
his expeditious movement of this bill through a hearing and through
markup. I would also like to thank the ranking member of my
Subcommittee on Commercial and Administrative Law, the gentleman from
North Carolina (Mr. Watt), with whom I sometimes differ, but who never,
never differs without grace. I appreciate his positions.
There are a number of issues upon which we differ here. Let me just
point out, the markup was shortened, to some degree, partly because it
was treated as a joke. Nevertheless, this legislation has been
considered in the past and was subject to a hearing.
The gentleman from North Carolina is pointing out that a number of
lawsuits will be prohibited or stopped by this legislation; and the
answer to that statement is yes, that is the purpose of this
legislation. It is to stop lawsuits which are frivolous and intended
only to destroy the manufacturers and distributors and importers of
guns in America as viable commercial activities.
The gentleman also pointed out that some of these lawsuits that will
be prohibited would be wrongly prohibited, and that is where we
disagree. The gentleman referred to 13 recall notices. The gentleman
will recall that in our hearing, we had an expert from the gun industry
who said that if a weapon discharged because of a defect which was
subject to a recall notice, or even if it was not subject to a recall
notice, but if it discharged improperly, they would, that is the
industry, the gun manufacturing industry, would still be responsible
for that defect according to current law.
Now, the bill before us does not change current law. It only preempts
the recent rash of frivolous lawsuits that are intended and explicitly
intended by the proponents of these lawsuits to destroy the industry.
This amendment should be defeated because it would strip away from
the bill an essential protection from frivolous lawsuits. The bill
allows manufacturing and product defect cases to go forward provided
that the product was used as intended. This phrase is vital to, for
example, protect a gun manufacturer from a frivolous claim that the gun
should have been designed to prevent someone from sticking a gun up his
nose to scratch, with his finger on the trigger. That is clearly not
what was intended for the use of the gun.
Another example, while all manufacturers under national standards
voluntarily adopted by the industry design guns to be safe from firing
on impact when dropped, a person who uses a pistol as a hammer should
not be able to sue for defective design, which just makes sense, when
the gun discharges after its foolish abuse of the design.
As one important product liability case stated, it is well settled
that a manufacturer is under a duty to use reasonable care in designing
his product when used in the manner for which the product was intended.
The phrase ``used as intended'' is today routinely applied by courts
and juries based on circumstances of the case and what the court or the
jury sees as a reasonable intended use. Of course, the juries will no
doubt draw extensively on, for example, the owner's manual of a firearm
for guidance as to what the intended use is.
It would seem clear in most circumstances to carry a gun is an
intended use and that manufacturing and design defects that cause harm
when a person drops the gun during the course of its intended use
properly and appropriately falls within the exceptions of the bill's
provision. It would also seem clear that in most, if not all,
circumstances pointing a gun at an innocent person and pulling the
trigger is not an intended use. These would be fact-intensive
inquiries, however, best left to the discretion of judges and juries.
The phrase ``used as intended'' is by no means an unfamiliar term in
the case law. The amendment should be defeated so existing case law
among the States can be used to appropriately apply it on a case-by-
case basis.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from New
York (Mr. Engel).
Mr. ENGEL. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for yielding me this
time, and I rise in support of his amendment to close that loophole in
the bill when used as intended.
But I also rise in opposition to the whole bill itself, to H.R. 1036.
The bill would provide Federal immunity to gun manufacturers and, in my
opinion, would halt progress towards safer guns and greater industry
accountability. H.R. 1036 would block suits filed by individuals,
victims of gun violence seeking to hold the gun industry accountable
for irresponsible manufacturing or selling of guns.
Now, gun manufacturers and sellers are exempt from Federal consumer
product safety regulation. The gun lobby made sure that the gun
industry was exempted from regulation when the Consumer Product Safety
Commission was established in the 1970s. This is wrong. The only other
product that enjoys this exemption is tobacco. And in my estimation,
Teddy bears are more regulated for safety than guns. Giving the gun
industry immunity would remove the only incentive to gun manufacturers
and dealers to ensure that guns do not fall into the wrong hands.
Past suits have resulted in improved safety features such as internal
locks to prevent unauthorized access. Right now, there are local
governments who are in court attempting to show that the manufacturers
that make guns that too often surface in illegal activities, and the
stores that make no attempt to follow the law in selling guns, should
be held liable for the relentless damages of gun violence. Now,
survivors of some of the Washington area sniping victims have gone to
court to sue the manufacturer of the gun that is said to be the murder
weapon and the gun shop that sold it after discovering that the dealer
had reported 238 guns missing from its inventory in 3 years alone. This
bill would prevent these lawsuits from going forward.
I believe that this industry, like every other industry, has an
obligation to its consumers and to the public to ensure that their
product is manufactured and sold in ways that are safe, legal, and
responsible. So I urge my colleagues to support the gentleman's
amendment and to vote against this bill.
Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself 15 seconds to respond to the
gentleman.
We have, in fact, protected manufacturers in dozens of industries.
One example is the light aircraft industry where we have set up rules
so that we could actually continue, or actually re-create, our light
aircraft industry in America.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from Michigan (Mr.
Dingell).
(Mr. DINGELL asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)
Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I thank my distinguished friend for
yielding me this time, and I rise in support of this much-needed
commonsense legislation.
I am the proud and original supporter of this legislation entitled
the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Firearms
[[Page H2981]]
Act. It will shield gun manufacturers from irresponsible lawsuits and
from damages in cases where firearms are used during criminal acts of
third parties, and only there. It does not protect them against wrong-
doing and negligent entrustment; it does not protect gun manufacturers
against negligent manufacture of dangerous firearms, but only where the
firearm is sold legitimately and lawfully.
The legislation is based on a simple, sound premise. We ought not sue
Boeing because somebody took a Boeing jet and crashed it into the World
Trade Center. We ought not sue Ford Motor Company because of negligence
of a drunk driver.
The bill has broad support with 251 cosponsors, including some 46
Democrats. The legislation is supported by organized labor, including
local affiliates of the United Auto Workers and the United Mine
Workers. It is necessary simply because there are junk lawsuits which
are being filed to harass law-abiding businessmen. If successful, such
lawsuits would bankrupt U.S. firearms manufacturers and destroy a
legitimate, lawfully, and carefully and intensely regulated industry in
which the manufacturers and sellers are regulated intensely by ATF and
other Federal and State regulatory agencies.
Some two dozen lawsuits have been filed in States and municipalities
that would be dealt with under this. The courts have spoken with regard
to these lawsuits, dismissing them almost entirely. In spite of the
fact that the lawsuits filed against the firearms industry have
produced no lawful or successful results, cities, counties, and others
continue to file them, mostly for harassment purposes. These lawsuits
cost not only the firearms industry, but municipalities, hundreds of
millions of dollars. This legislation is directed at curtailing that.
The bill does not affect the right of a lawsuit to sue for negligence
or other wrong-doing.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from
Washington (Mr. Inslee).
(Mr. INSLEE asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)
Mr. INSLEE. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the Watt amendment. I
think anyone who has been listening to this debate realizes that this
is not a debate about the ability of Americans to have responsible gun
ownership, something I think everyone in this debate has recognized.
But I rise to support the Watt amendment because it shows some
attention to the over 1,000 children a year, our children, who kill
themselves using a firearm. I rise to pay some attention to the
hundreds of children every year who shoot their playmates
unintentionally, our children.
The reason these children deserve some standing in this debate is
that those children would be alive if there was some way that these
guns were secured so that our children did not get access to these
firearms. Right now, many people of common sense who may stand as
jurors believe that manufacturers should provide responsible gun owners
with the ability to secure their firearms so kids do not get them. That
may include trigger locks, it may include boxes, it may include these
new computerized systems to keep our kids from shooting their playmates
and shooting themselves in a moment of temporary teenage depression.
But this legislation, without the Watt amendment, would preclude
jurors from holding manufacturers responsible and prevent jurors,
reasonably minded jurors, from finding them responsible and not giving
consumers what they deserve. And consumers of a firearm deserve the
ability to lock them away and not allow them to be used by their
children. If we adopt the Watt amendment, we will allow jurors to make
that decision.
I have to tell my colleagues, when I read about some 10-year-old
getting his uncle's gun and shooting his playmate because it was not
secured, I stand for the proposition that jurors ought to be able to
say that trigger locks ought to be sold with these firearms so that
consumers will have them.
Support the Watt amendment.
Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from
Florida (Mr. Stearns), the author of the underlying bill.
{time} 1300
Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I thank my colleague, the gentleman from
Utah, for yielding time to me.
Mr. Chairman, the Watt amendment is attacking the words ``used as
intended'', and he has sort of indicated that those words are vague and
perhaps they should be deleted because the courts could not quite
understand them.
I have Black's Law Dictionary back in my office, Mr. Chairman. I went
up and looked up the words. It is defined as ``the intended use
doctrine,'' defined as ``The rule imposing a duty on a manufacturer to
develop a product so that it is reasonably safe for its intended or
foreseeable users.''
In fact, if we look up the words ``used as intended,'' for example,
the words ``manufacturing defects'' or ``design defects,'' any of these
terms which, at first glance, would connote some nebulous concept.
Indeed, it is not a nebulous concept; there is a strict interpretation
of these words in tort law.
In Westlaw, which is a commonly used legal database, if we go into
that and put in the words ``used as intended,'' we come up with that it
has been cited in 1,300 State cases and over 900 Federal cases come up.
That is ample guidance for courts to use regarding what ``used as
intended'' means in a case alleging defective design or manufacture.
The treatise American Law of Products Liability states that ``Courts
have consistently refused to impose liability on manufacturers of
firearms that function exactly as intended.''
Mr. Chairman, I think what I am saying is, there is ample evidence in
the law, both in the Federal and in the State, where the term ``used as
intended'' is clearly understood in tort law, so there is no ambiguity
here.
Mr. Chairman, I would urge defeat of the Watt amendment.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, I think, regarding the people who have made statements
in support of and against this amendment, I think the problem is that
we have left a substantial ambiguity in the law because we have not
taken the time to deal with this in the committee, where it should have
been dealt with.
With all respect to the chairman of my subcommittee, the gentleman
from Utah (Mr. Cannon), whom I respect and admire greatly, the fact
that somebody shows up at a hearing and says that this language, ``used
as intended,'' means one thing or another really is not going to be
what controls that. The same judges that they have said are
irresponsible are going to be making that determination.
Mr. Chairman, when we write a piece of legislation, it is our
responsibility to write it in a way that leaves them no discretion
about what we mean. I would submit that a child who picks up a gun and
drops it, and it discharges, most of us would stand here and say that
that gun was not being used as intended. Therefore, the parents of that
child would have no recourse; nobody would have any recourse against
the manufacturer.
I would submit that anybody who drops a gun and it accidentally
discharges, as it did in the case of the gentleman from Rhode Island
(Mr. Langevin), could reasonably argue that that was not, or that that
falls within the exception.
It is our responsibility to close these loopholes, not open
additional ones. I ask my colleagues to support the amendment.
Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Watt),
my friend, for his gracious comments.
Referring back to the prior speaker, the gentleman from Washington,
he made a couple points that I think are important. This is not about
the right to own a gun; this is an entirely different discussion.
I indicated, on his concern about seeing trigger locks on all guns,
frankly, we need to research and improve safety devices over time.
Hopefully, some of those improvements in safety will come from a
healthy, robust manufacturing center in our country that can afford to
develop the kinds of technologies that will keep the many police
officers who are shot with their own guns safe from their own guns.
That takes a robust industry to do that.
[[Page H2982]]
In closing, let me just point out to the gentleman, if we enter the
words ``used as intended,'' ``manufacturing defect,'' or ``design
defect'' into Westlaw, a commonly used database, we come up with 1,300
State cases and 900 Federal cases. We have a great deal of
understanding about the concept that is being attacked in this
amendment.
I encourage the Members of this body to oppose this amendment, to go
with legislation that is sensible and reasonable and will improve the
environment in which we have to exercise our right to keep and bear
arms in America.
The CHAIRMAN. All time has expired.
The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from North
Carolina (Mr. Watt).
The amendment was rejected.
The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to consider amendment No. 2 printed
in House Report 108-64.
Amendment No. 2 Offered by Mr. Scott of Virginia
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, I offer amendment No. 2.
The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will designate amendment No. 2.
The text of amendment No. 2 is as follows:
Amendment No. 2 offered by Mr. Scott of Virginia:
In section 4(5)(A), strike clause (i) and insert the
following:
(i) an action brought against a transferor who transfers a
firearm in violation of section 924(h) of title 18, United
States Code, or a comparable or identical State felony law,
by a party directly harmed by conduct of the transferee
involving the firearm;
The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Resolution 181, the gentleman from
Virginia (Mr. Scott) and a Member opposed each will control 10 minutes.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott).
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I
may consume.
Mr. Chairman, the underlying right for redress would apply if the
defendant transfers a firearm in violation of the law and is convicted
of that crime. In other words, if the defendant has been convicted of
an illegal transfer of a firearm, he loses the benefits of the bill.
This amendment eliminates the requirement under the bill for a
conviction before a defendant can be sued, and substitutes the
requirement that the defendant actually committed the crime. Requiring
a conviction before a defendant can be sued for civil consequences of
his unlawful acts would constitute an extraordinary change in
traditional civil liability standards. Moreover, such a requirement
would create bizarre results based on what a prosecutor decides to do
in a particular case and when he decides to do it.
The prosecutor may choose not to prosecute a particular case for
various reasons. This would preclude a claim, regardless of how
egregious the injuries are or how clear the liability; or even if a
case is prosecuted, the prosecutor may decide to plea bargain a case,
allowing a defendant who has illegally transferred many guns to plead
guilty to one transfer and drop the other cases. It would be absurd to
suggest that only the victims in the case pleaded to can sue while the
others cannot.
Of course, there is always a possibility the case can be thrown out
because of an unlawful search or seizure, because of a coerced
confession, or simply because the prosecutor is unable to prove his
case beyond a reasonable doubt. The case might be lost because a jury
was pretty sure the defendant was guilty, but not beyond a reasonable
doubt.
Even where there is a conviction, the timing of the conviction alone
might be dispositive of the claim because there is nothing in the bill
or the law which tolls the statute of limitations in a civil claim
pending prosecution and appeals.
Mr. Chairman, this is a dramatic departure from traditional civil
proceedings. In an automobile accident, for example, one can be
successful if one can prove that the defendant went through the red
light. We do not lose our case because the police officer did not give
the defendant a ticket, or gave him a ticket but did not get a
conviction. Say one brings the witnesses to court and proves the
defendant, in fact, went through the red light. Under the theory under
this bill, that person would lose his case if the police officer failed
to successfully prosecute the defendant.
If this amendment is adopted, even without the conviction, the
unlawful transfer would still have to be proven in order to pursue the
case. Under traditional civil law, we would still have to prove the
defendant violated the law and that the violation was the proximate
cause of the injury.
If someone's criminal activity causes injury, he should not escape
civil liability merely because he was not technically convicted of that
crime. So I urge my colleagues to support the amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. FEENEY. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Florida (Mr. Feeney) is recognized
for 10 minutes.
Mr. FEENEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, I respectfully disagree with the amendment of the
gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott), and would ask a ``no'' vote on his
proposed amendment.
In essence, this is a battle about two competing theories with
respect to gun manufacturers and gun sellers in America. There is one
theory that presumes that gun manufacturers and gun sellers are
inherently guilty of something, somewhere, almost all of the time. The
other theory is that, consistent with the second amendment, if we
really believe that the second amendment protects the right to bear and
own arms, that we must inherently protect the right of people to
manufacture and distribute those arms.
What the gentleman's amendment does, as I read it, is basically
several things that are very, very important, including allowing civil
courts to find somebody guilty of criminal offenses without all of the
inherent protections that we give to people who are accused of crimes.
It actually flies in the face of a subsequent amendment filed by the
gentlewoman from California (Ms. Linda T. Sanchez), who makes the
keystone of her amendment actually that one be convicted and found
guilty of a crime before they are responsible in a civil action.
What this amendment of the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott) does
is to remove the requirement that you are convicted of any criminal act
before you are held guilty in civil responsibility. It would allow
lawsuits against firearms manufacturers, dealers, or importers if the
action is against a transferor who knowingly transfers a firearm,
knowing that such firearms will be used to commit a crime of violence
or drug trafficking crime.
The bill currently allows for suits against people if the transferor
is actually convicted of a crime. What this amendment does is to
undermine the ability of somebody to defend themselves with all the
inherent criminal protections that they ought to have before they are
essentially found to have committed a crime.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself 30 seconds.
Mr. Chairman, I would just point out that without this amendment,
this bill protects criminals. Without the amendment, we could have a
criminal actually admitting to the crime, but unless there was a
conviction, we could not use that admission in a civil case.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from North Carolina
(Mr. Watt).
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I just want to join in support of this
amendment offered by the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott). Again,
this is a case where, had we taken the time in committee to evaluate
the language and allow the amendment of the gentleman from Virginia
(Mr. Scott), which was at the desk when the question was called on the
bill in committee, if we had had this debate, we could probably have
corrected this language to say what the gentleman from Florida (Mr.
Feeney) would like for it to say.
Unfortunately, the bill says what it says. As much as he would like
for it to say something different than what it says, it does not. It
says that in order to pursue a cause of action, we have to have had a
conviction.
[[Page H2983]]
That is ridiculous. The bill should not say that. Now, maybe the
drafters did not intend for it to say that, which is exactly the point
that I have been making throughout this process: If we had taken the
time to evaluate the provisions of this bill, then we could have at
least gotten the bill to say what they intend for it to say.
However, no judge is going to have the luxury of saying, well, they
intended to say this, and therefore I am going to interpret this
statute in that way. The judge has to look at the law as we have
written it. Right now, this bill does not say what my colleagues would
like for it to say because we have not taken the time to make it say
that.
Mr. Chairman, we are being irresponsible and we are passing
legislation through this House that we know has a serious flaw, and
they are looking at us saying, well, you cannot read. I learned to read
a long time ago. I can read what the language of this bill says, and it
says exactly what the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott) says it says.
Nothing that my colleagues on the other side can say can change that.
We need to amend the bill so that it says what they want it to say.
Mr. FEENEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself 3 minutes.
Mr. Chairman, the gentleman is a very capable reader. I have
discovered that in committee, and enjoy working with him.
However, I can read as well. What the bill does is say, before you
are treated as a criminal, you need to be tried as a criminal in a
criminal court, and you need to be convicted as a criminal. That is the
American way.
What the amendment says is that you can be treated as a criminal even
though you have never been tried as a criminal, and even though you
have never been in a criminal court and certainly never been convicted.
Members will recall that the Bill of Rights, aside from protecting
the right to bear firearms, also protects certain rights before one is
convicted of a crime. It is the great American criminal jurisprudence.
{time} 1315
Among other things, before you are a criminal, you have the right to
a trial, you have the right to face your accusers, you have a right to
call witnesses, you have a right to an attorney, you have a right to
due process, and you have a right to be proven guilty beyond a
reasonable doubt.
What the gentleman's amendment does is to essentially eviscerate all
of the protections we give people in America who are accused of a crime
and make them criminals even though they have never had a day to
protect themselves in a criminal court.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I
may consume.
Mr. Chairman, I would ask the gentleman if he could state any other
civil statute that requires a criminal conviction as a predicate. And I
would point out on page 9 of the bill ``in an action in which a
manufacturer or seller of a qualified product knowingly and willfully
violated,'' but it does not say anything about a conviction. So the
manufacturer or seller is not afforded any of those rights we just
heard of. And I just want to know if there is any other civil law that
requires a criminal conviction as a predicate to your right to get
civil remedies.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. FEENEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself 2 minutes.
Mr. Chairman, I would suggest that there are thousands of civil laws
both at the Federal level and the State level, and we will try to get
some research on which ones actually require a criminal predicate. But
what I would suggest to the gentleman is that the part of the bill that
he references regarding statutes that have been violated could be
either a civil or criminal statute. So it does not require a civil
court to find an individual defendant guilty of a crime. It actually
permits a case against a gun manufacturer who violates a State law or
Federal law in a civil matter. And I think this is very different
because what the gentleman's amendment does is to specify a Federal
criminal offense and to suggest civil courts can find you guilty even
though you have never had your day in court, never been in criminal
court, and certainly never been convicted in criminal court.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I
may consume.
Mr. Chairman, since the gentleman is defending the bill, I would ask
him on page 8 of the bill, lines 17 through 22, whether or not the word
``transferee'' on line 22 and ``transferor'' on lines 17 and 18,
whether that is a typographical error.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. FEENEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, actually I was debating the gentleman's amendment, and
we have got staff taking a look at the specific provisions you have
referred to. What I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, is ultimately this
amendment is an attempt to eviscerate the second amendment in a way
that the Constitution would not permit, in a way the courts fortunately
have not permitted, and in a way that elected representatives and
legislatures around the country and in this Congress would not permit.
What it basically does is to try to, through all sorts of litigation
against gun manufacturers and gun sellers, make weapons that are
protected under the second amendment unavailable. So what it does is to
say that the second amendment to the United States Constitution, while
it may protect your theoretical right to own and bear a weapon,
actually is meaningless because we are not going to allow anybody
either to manufacture or to sell those weapons.
And I would suggest that the adversaries of this bill and the people
that are trying to weaken or undermine or eviscerate the bill refer
back to Oliver Wendell Holmes's great statement in 1894 where he
explained why you hold certain people responsible. He said:
Why is not a man who sells firearms answerable for assaults
committed with pistols bought of him since he must be taken
to know the probability that sooner or later someone will buy
a pistol of him for some unlawful end? The principle seem
pretty well established, in this country at least, that
everyone has the right to rely upon his fellow man acting
lawfully.
What the opponents of this bill want to do is to presume that
everybody who manufactures or sells a weapon is guilty of something,
ought to be put out of business through bankruptcy or some other means.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time to close.
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the
gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Jackson-Lee).
(Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas asked and was given permission to revise
and extend her remarks.)
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I rise to support what is an
enormously sensible amendment to legislation that has come to the floor
with a lot of its own baggage. I recognize that we have legislation
that people proudly say there are 250 sponsors. I have not had my time
on the floor, so I will just add 250 celebratory sponsors gearing
themselves toward a pending convention and looking, of course, towards
making a lot of new friends in the National Rifle Association.
But we have to deal with life and death on the floor of the House. We
have to deal with the question of saving lives. And certainly I would
think that the amendment that the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott)
has offered again provides added protection to those who are left most
vulnerable with this legislation.
Clearly I think if we were to explain this in the ABC's and we would
explain to the American people that we are closing the door on a number
of petitioners who have been injured and/or killed because of the
misuse of a firearm, they would understand that this is not in conflict
with the second amendment. We all believe that the second amendment
does give the right to Americans to bear arms. I believe,
unfortunately, that it dealt with the militia, but to bear arms. But we
also understand that there is normal product liability, if you will,
laws that deal with the protection of those who have the right to
engage in a lawsuit because they have been injured.
This particular amendment deals with the requirement under the bill
for
[[Page H2984]]
the conviction of a transferer who knowingly transfers a firearm
knowing that such a firearm will be used to commit a crime of violence
before a transferer can be sued. And we eliminate that requirement.
It makes sense that if you are dealing with a criminal element and
that you have been injured and that there has been some misuse, then
you should not be limited and not have that additional requirement.
Mr. Chairman, this is an intelligent amendment to a bill that has
been on a fast track so that we can all celebrate at the National Rifle
Association convention.
Mr. FEENEY. Mr. Chairman, how much time remains?
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott) has 1\1/2\
minutes remaining. The gentleman from Florida (Mr. Feeney) has 4
minutes remaining. The gentleman from Florida has the right to close.
Mr. FEENEY. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the
gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Watt).
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I rise to ask my colleague from Virginia a
question.
Suppose there is a conviction in a case and then a civil lawsuit is
filed which would be allowed, and then the conviction is reversed on
appeal. What would happen under this bill under those circumstances?
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. WATT. I yield to the gentleman from Virginia.
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for the
question; and, frankly, Mr. Chairman, I do not know. You would have
someone who has filed his lawsuit, gets a judgment. The underlying
conviction is overturned. I do not know. Maybe the gentleman from
Colorado can help answer the question. In my opening remarks I made a
point that pending prosecution and all the appeals, if you start off
with an acquittal, with a case thrown out and then reinstated on
appeal, maybe after the statute of limitations. There is no other
situation where you have to get a conviction before the civil lawsuit
can go forward; and I would ask the gentleman from Colorado.
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recognize the gentleman from Florida (Mr.
Feeney) unless the gentleman wants to close.
Mr. FEENEY. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself the balance of my
time.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman is recognized for 30 seconds.
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, in the bill we have the action
of a manufacturer who willingly and knowingly violates a State or
Federal statute and can be sued. You do not have to have a conviction.
You have to have a conviction in this situation. The gentleman from
North Carolina (Mr. Watt) has revealed a bazaar situation. Some people
can bring a case and not bring a case depending upon whether their case
was part of a plea bargain or not.
This is a major departure from any civil procedure, and if the
gentleman can advise us if there is any other civil lawsuit that
requires a conviction as a predicate rather than knowingly violated the
statute, we would like to hear it.
Mr. Chairman, I hope we would adopt the amendment.
Mr. FEENEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I want to apologize to my colleague because they asked
the gentleman from Colorado to respond, and while Colorado is a great
sunshine State, I actually represent the Sunshine State of Florida.
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. FEENEY. I yield to the gentleman from Virginia.
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, I apologize to the gentleman
from Florida (Mr. Feeney).
Mr. FEENEY. Reclaiming my time, there is no offense taken. Colorado
is a beautiful State, but please come visit the Sunshine State when you
get a chance.
I will give you this answer, and that is, while it will take me some
time to research the tens of thousands of Federal and State civil
actions to see which ones are predicated on a criminal conviction, I am
also not aware of any situation where a civil court without the
protections of the Bill of Rights can find one guilty of a Federal
criminal offense that carries a 10-year punishment. And I think that is
the crux of what this amendment gets to.
Because, as you know, the Supreme Court has stated, quoting James
Madison in the case of The New York Times v. Sullivan: ``Some degree of
abuse is inseparable from the proper use of everything.''
That includes hammers, ice picks, steak knives, lawn mowers, other
things that have been used as weapons. What the opponents of the bill
suggest is that every manufacturer and every seller must be guilty of
something simply because they are selling a product that is not only a
legal product, but it is particularly and especially protected by the
second amendment to the United States Constitution.
A violation of section 18 of the U.S. Code, section 927(h) is exactly
what the amendment that the gentleman gets to. A conviction under that
statute carriers up to a 10-year imprisonment and a fine potentially.
What the gentleman wants to do is to basically say that somebody can
be found guilty of that Federal criminal statute in a civil court,
basically declaring somebody a criminal even though they have never
been in a criminal court. For example, they would be called a criminal
as actually the gentlewoman just did and she said we are protecting
criminals if we do not adopt this wonderful amendment.
Ultimately, what we are doing here is to say to an accused person
they will be found guilty in a civil court of a crime even though they
never had the rights afforded them by the Bill of Rights, including the
right to an attorney, the right to face your accuser, the right to call
witnesses, the right to due process, and the right to be proven guilty
of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt.
Please protect innocent parties, and please protect the second
amendment and oppose the amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered by the
gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott).
The question was taken; and the Chairman announced that the noes
appeared to have it.
Mr. SCOTT of Virginia. Mr. Chairman, I demand a recorded vote.
The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to clause 6 of rule XVIII, further proceedings
on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott)
will be postponed.
The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to consider amendment No. 3 printed
in House Report 108-64.
Amendment No. 3 Offered by Ms. Linda T. Sanchez of California
Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California. Mr. Chairman, I offer an
amendment.
The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will designate the amendment.
The text of the amendment is as follows:
Amendment No. 3 offered by Ms. Linda T. Sanchez of
California:
In section 4(5)(A)--
(1) redesignate clauses (ii) through (v) as clauses (iii)
through (vi), respectively; and
(2) insert after clause (i) the following:
``(ii) an action brought against a transferor convicted of
a violation of paragraph (3) or (4) of section 922(d) of
title 18, United States Code, or of a comparable or identical
provision of State law, by a party directly harmed by conduct
of which the transferee is convicted;''
In section 4(5)(B), strike ``(A)(ii)'' and insert
``(A)(iii)''.
The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Resolution 181, the gentlewoman from
California (Ms. Linda T. Sanchez) and a Member opposed each will
control 10 minutes.
The Chair recognizes the gentlewoman from California (Ms. Linda T.
Sanchez).
Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such
time as I may consume.
(Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California asked and was given permission to
revise and extend her remarks.)
Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California. Mr. Chairman, H.R. 1036, the
Protection of Lawful Commerce and Arms Act, seeks to prohibit civil
liability actions from being brought or continued against
manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms
[[Page H2985]]
or ammunition for damages resulting from the misuse of their product by
others.
The bill makes certain exceptions, however, to allow lawsuits against
gun manufacturers, sellers, distributors, and importers. For example,
it allows a lawsuit to proceed in case of negligence per se or
negligent entrustment. It also allows lawsuits for victims in certain
cases where the gun seller or manufacturer knowingly or willingly broke
State or Federal law.
My amendment would be one of the smaller exceptions to the ban on
lawsuits. It would essentially do more than require gun sellers or
manufacturers to obey the law that already exists.
{time} 1330
Section 922 of title XVIII of the U.S. Code establishes that it is
unlawful for any person to sell guns or ammunition to someone who uses
or is addicted to illegal drugs or who has been adjudicated as a mental
defective. Later on, the same section makes it illegal for drug users
or abusers or persons with adjudicated mental problems to ship, possess
or receive guns or ammunition that have been in interstate commerce.
This makes sense. Congress has decided that there are certain people
who should not have access to firearms, and these are the two
categories of people who are restricted.
Congress further decided that the responsibility for this restriction
is on both the buyer and the seller. If the gun sellers and
manufacturers are not checking to be sure that they do not sell guns to
people with drug or mental problems, then how can we keep the guns out
of their hands? That is why the U.S. Code specifically prohibits both
the sale and the purchase.
I just want the gun sellers to do the proper background checks. If
they do not and it turns out they sold weapons or ammunition to a
person in one of those categories, then they should not have the
benefit of immunity from the court system. As a matter of public
policy, we should most definitely provide victims with an opportunity
to take their case to court, and we should allow judges the opportunity
to decide if what the gun seller did was a violation of the law.
Last fall, when there were suspicions that the Beltway sniper might
have had a mental illness, the House rapidly passed a bill to enforce
the already-existing law that requires the FBI to list any person who
has been adjudicated as a mental defective on the National Instant
Criminal Background Check system. It is important to note that the bill
did not create this requirement; rather, it sought to provide incentive
grants to encourage the use of it.
That bill unfortunately did not pass the Senate, but that does not
change the fact that this requirement already exists. If we are intent
on requiring that the information be listed in the system, and if we
say that gun sellers must do background checks, then how can we go
wrong by holding them liable if they fail to do the background check?
Having already mentioned some of my opposition to this bill, and
having tried to correct one of the many, many problems with it, I would
like to talk about the egregious manner the Majority has used in moving
this bill through the House.
This is a fairly partisan bill, which went through a very partisan
Committee, the Judiciary Committee. No hearings were held at Full
Committee. Essentially, no markup occurred either. Technically, the
Committee met and we started debate on what should have been 10-15
amendments. The first one was offered and withdrawn. Shortly after we
began discussing the second one, offered by Mr. Watt, the Majority
called the previous question. And with that, our so-called democratic
debate on an important piece of legislation ended.
The Majority has since made claims that they cut off debate because
no amendments were at the desk. This is patently untrue. As I said, and
as the transcript from that markup shows, we were in the MIDDLE of the
debate on an amendment when the previous question was called.
I realize that the Majority wouldn't have liked a lot of our
amendments, in which case they would have had the freedom to vote
against then. But to not even allow debate on a topic of such divergent
opinions is a disgrace. We're talking about a bill that includes
findings that have no basis in fact or law. A bill that makes sweeping
changes to liability, thus cutting off legitimate victims' access to
the court system. A bill that rewards certain shoddy gun dealers with
the same immunity that it gives to honest manufacturers who have worked
diligently to improve their products.
That appalling markup happened last Thursday. Now here we are today,
less than a week later, debating the bill on the Floor. But one again,
a true democratic effort has been thwarted, because the Majority has
only permitted us five amendments. Five amendments. Again, I'm sure
that the Majority didn't like all of the amendments we offered. But
that doesn't mean they are non-germane. And it's no reason to cut off
debate. If that's going to be the basis for how we run this body, then
we should stop claiming to be a democracy.
And, frankly, the amendments allowed today don't include all of the
``heavy'' amendments we offered. Let's be honest--my amendment has a
much smaller impact than some of the other ones offered today. I think
it represents an important change, but I also think there were a whole
host of other important changes that could have been made--had we had a
full markup, or had the Rule been an open one.
I am shocked by the complete disregard to Majority has demonstrated
for the democratic process. I urge my colleagues on both sides of the
aisle to resist this kind of disintegration of our free speech and our
democratic process. Otherwise, the democratic ideals our troops are
fighting for in the Middle East may as well be meaningless.
I urge my colleagues to support this amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentlewoman from Tennessee (Mrs. Blackburn)
seek the time in opposition?
Mrs. BLACKBURN. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman from Tennessee (Mrs. Blackburn) is
recognized for 10 minutes in opposition.
Mrs. BLACKBURN. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may
consume.
Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the base bill and in opposition to
the Sanchez amendment. The language in this amendment would allow
lawsuits to be brought against gun manufacturers and dealers for
damages that are caused by the criminal misuse of that product by a
third party if the firearm transferor knows or has reasonable cause to
believe that the recipient is an unlawful user of or addicted to any
controlled substance or has been adjudicated as a mental defective or
committed to a mental institution.
Making such a transfer to a drug addict or someone who has been
declared mentally incompetent is already illegal under the Gun Control
Act and the laws of many States. It is clearly covered by the existing
language of this bill.
Those who support H.R. 1036 have no intention of preventing lawsuits
against those convicted of criminal acts, and under the language of the
bill, we do not need to list every possible violation for them to be
held accountable.
What we do want to do is prevent junk lawsuits against the firearms
industry. Many of these companies operate on narrow margins, and those
who oppose the second amendment hope to use our legal system and the
threat of costly lawsuits to bankrupt a legal industry. This is clearly
wrong, and I would urge my colleagues to oppose this amendment and
support passage of H.R. 1036.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such
time as I may consume.
I do not understand how my colleagues on the other side of the aisle
can say that this case is clearly set forth in the proposed
legislation, because the negligence, number one, the negligence per se
doctrine, does not exist in every State, and I believe it is the
citizens of those States who deserve the kind of protections included
in this amendment.
The other exception that is stated in this bill is for knowingly or
willfully violating Federal or State law, and it requires a conviction,
and that does not apply here either. That implication or that state of
mind, that mens rea, requires a specific mens rea, whereas my amendment
here only includes a reasonable cause to believe standard.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms.
Jackson-Lee).
(Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas asked and was given permission to revise
and extend her remarks.)
[[Page H2986]]
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, allow me to thank the
gentlewoman from California for a very thoughtful amendment that really
seems not to be understood by the opponents of the amendment.
First of all, I think we should make it very clear that what is
happening with H.R. 1036 is that right as we speak, Mr. Chairman, we
are stopping dead in its tracks any lawsuit by any jurisdiction, local,
State or civilian, against a manufacturer, distributors and dealers
dealing with firearms. This is an outrage on its face. It makes
absolutely no sense that we would begin to intrude into State's rights
and individual petitioner rights that would disallow pending lawsuits.
That means that a law enforcement officer who brutally kills and/or
injures him or his family, her or her family, cannot engage in a
lawsuit. It means that this is, in fact, a pay-as-you-go legislation,
and good amendments, of which I support all of the amendments that are
on the floor today, are not taken seriously.
This amendment is a good amendment because it is required by law that
a person not sell to addicted individuals. What this amendment says is,
we do not have to have a conviction. It simply says, if these are
addicted individuals and a person illegally sells to them, or people
suffering with mental illness or have a mental health condition or in
need of mental services, that they have a problem; and therefore, when
I say problem, those gun sellers or manufacturers, that they, in fact,
should be liable under the laws of this land.
This legislation says in an affronting way, insulting way, that a
person does not have the ability to go into the courthouse. Besides the
insult of the way this bill came to the floor of the House and the
insult of the process, good amendments are on the floor that are not
being accepted, and amendments that were in the Committee on Rules,
amendments to protect children, amendments that dealt with assault
weapons and amendments that dealt with law enforcement officers, were
rejected.
I would simply ask my colleagues to overlook the fact that we have a
convention of the National Rifle Association pending, and let us try to
do what is good for America. Look at the Sanchez amendment and realize
that it makes sense because it is existing law. A person cannot sell to
addicted individuals; a person should not sell to people suffering from
mental illness, and it is that person's responsibility to check. If, in
fact, it reflects back on the gun seller and then the manufacturer,
that is what should be decided in a court of law.
The ultimate affront, as I said, is the very fact that existing,
pending lawsuits that are going on in our courts today, in State courts
and Federal courts, will cease and desist because of this legislation.
Can we think of a more unfair action in this Congress in light of the
fact that we believe we live in a democracy? I cannot.
I would just simply say in closing, I hope the gentlewoman's
amendment is accepted. I hope the Meehan amendment is accepted, the two
Watt amendments are accepted. I wish they were, and of course, the
Scott amendment, and I really hope our colleagues would vote against
this legislation.
Mrs. BLACKBURN. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may
consume.
The claims have been made that the bill's requirement that a knowing
violation of the statute occurs is unjust. The claim that it is too
burdensome to require that a person knowingly violates the law before
they can be said to meet the exceptions to the bill fails to understand
the flexible nature of the requirement.
A typical jury instruction regarding what the requirement
``unknowing'' means states as follows: ``Knowledge may be proved by all
of the facts and circumstances surrounding the case. You, the jury, may
infer knowledge from a combination of suspicion and indifference to the
truth. If you find that a person had a strong suspicion that things
were not what they seemed or that someone had withheld some important
facts, yet shut his eyes for fear of what he would learn, you may
conclude that he acted knowingly.''
The knowing standard is clearly flexible enough to produce justice in
our courts in all circumstances.
Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as he may consume to the gentleman
from Florida (Mr. Stearns).
Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentlewoman from Tennessee for
yielding to me.
I would say to the gentlewoman from Texas that I understand her
feelings when she mentions she finds this bill an insult, and she sort
of indicates it is perhaps because of what happened in the Committee on
the Judiciary. She has mentioned that perhaps the rule, and she
mentioned the NRA convention, but I still do not think that those kinds
of statements necessarily apply and convince Members not to vote for
this bill because, basically, H.R. 1036 already incorporates what the
gentlewoman from California (Ms. Linda T. Sanchez) is providing under
her amendment.
I have to be honest. I think what she is saying is praiseworthy, but
the amendment is not necessary because we already have in the bill the
language that is needed.
We have used the words ``negligent entrustment,'' and this is a legal
term, and that term is used in the bill. Because of the way it is used
in the bill, it automatically covers what the gentlewoman from
California (Ms. Linda T. Sanchez) wants to put in her amendment as part
of the bill, and I might read ``negligent entrustment'' just to clarify
what the actual legal definition is, as defined.
It is ``supplying of a qualified product by a seller for use by
another person when the seller knows or should know the person to whom
the product is supplied is likely to use the product and, in fact, does
use the product in a manner involving unreasonable risk of physical
injury to the person and others.''
The bill already allows suits for negligent entrustment or negligence
per se or where a manufacturer or seller knowingly and willfully
violates a State or Federal statute applicable to the sale or marketing
of the product and the violation has a proximate cause of the harm for
which relief is sought.
In a nutshell, we have in H.R. 1036 all the necessary language to
cover what the gentlewoman from California (Ms. Linda T. Sanchez) is
talking about. So I urge my colleagues not to support the Sanchez
amendment. It is unnecessary because H.R. 1036 already holds liable
anyone who violates any State or Federal statute.
The Sanchez amendment also eliminates a requirement that a violation
of a Federal statute must actually cause an injury before liability can
attach. So I urge my colleagues to vote no on the Sanchez amendment.
Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California. Mr. Chairman, I yield 30 seconds
to the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Jackson-Lee).
Ms. JACKSON-LEE. Mr. Chairman, I thank the distinguished gentlewoman
for yielding to me.
Let me quickly just cite for the gentleman, and I will not pose it in
terms of a question for him to respond, but under section 3, subsection
(b), any pending litigation against gun manufacturers, distributors and
dealers would be immediately dismissed under this enactment. It might
include actions that would come under the gentlewoman's particular
amendment, and so if her amendment would be included, it would mean
that any pending action that was based upon firearms in the hands of
those suffering from mental illness or those who are drug addicted
would continue.
This gentleman wants those lawsuits to be extinguished and those
injured to be denied their justice.
Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such
time as I may consume.
I think it is important to clarify something that was stated by my
colleagues on the other side of the aisle. They keep talking about
negligent entrustment, but negligent entrustment liability only applies
when someone knows that person is going to commit a crime. However,
this amendment specifically speaks to a different type of mens rea. It
speaks to the reasonable cause to believe standard. It does not
require, as the current bill stands, the mens rea of knowingly or
willfully, plus a conviction, in order to hold these distributors and
manufacturers liable.
[[Page H2987]]
I think the purpose of this amendment is strictly as an incentive to
make sure that sellers and manufacturers and dealers are actually doing
the criminal background checks that the law already requires of them;
and again, I am talking about having a reasonable cause to believe that
somebody is either addicted to drugs or has been mentally adjudicated
as incompetent.
I think that requiring a higher standard of proof in terms of the
intent of the seller or the distributor, plus a conviction, denies
legitimate plaintiffs the right to sue in civil court, and so I would
urge my colleagues to please support this amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mrs. BLACKBURN. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as he may consume to
the gentleman from Florida (Mr. Stearns).
Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, maybe I could just have a colloquy with
the gentlewoman on her amendment.
Would my colleague not agree that the language dealing with negligent
entrustment is not part of the bill, H.R. 1036?
Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman
yield?
Mr. STEARNS. I yield to the gentlewoman from California.
Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California. Mr. Chairman, it is part of the
bill. My understanding it is a definition in part of the bill.
Mr. STEARNS. Would the gentlewoman not agree that that term
``negligent entrustment'' is fully understood under tort law?
{time} 1345
Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California. Mr. Chairman, if the gentleman
will continue to yield, I would say no, I believe it is applied on a
case-by-case basis under tort law.
Mr. STEARNS. But the consensus is, when we read the gentlewoman's
amendment, in fact everything she has asked for is already included in
our bill. So we think the amendment, as praiseworthy as it might be, in
effect it is already being spoken to and clarified in our bill, so we
just do not think the gentlewoman's amendment is necessary.
Can the gentlewoman define very clearly why the term ``negligent
entrustment'' does not cover all that is necessary in tort law and why
the gentlewoman's amendment would be needed with that already in
existence?
Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California. Well, if the intention is to
cover the incidence that I am talking about, of dealers or sellers or
manufacturers who have reasonable cause to believe, why not state that
intention clearly in the legislation?
My understanding is that the negligence per se definition section in
the bill does not state those cases.
Mr. STEARNS. Well, reclaiming my time, Mr. Chairman, I disagree.
Negligent entrustment, as I read the definition earlier, it is all laid
out.
Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California. So we agree to disagree, in other
words.
Mr. STEARNS. Reclaiming my time, Mr. Chairman, I urge a ``no'' vote
on the Sanchez amendment.
Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself the
balance of my time. In closing, I just want to say that if we had had
the opportunity to bring these amendments up in subcommittee and to
discuss them at length, I think we probably could have come to some
agreement in terms of what cases we chose to cover by this piece of
legislation and which cases we did not.
However, we were not afforded that opportunity because the question
was called and debate was cut off. Now we find ourselves here on the
floor of the House debating amendments, a scant five, when we had 10 to
15 to offer in subcommittee. This, in essence, cuts off the democratic
process, which in essence does not give us the chance to meaningfully
consider the amendments as a way to improve this bill.
I urge that my colleagues vote ``yes'' on my amendment.
Mrs. BLACKBURN. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself the balance of my time.
As we have heard from the discussion, the provisions that have been
mentioned are covered. I would encourage my colleagues to vote ``no''
on this amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered by the
gentlewoman from California (Ms. Linda T. Sanchez).
The question was taken; and the Chairman announced that the noes
appeared to have it.
Ms. LINDA T. SANCHEZ of California. Mr. Chairman, I demand a recorded
vote.
The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to clause 6 of rule XVIII, further proceedings
on the amendment offered by the gentlewoman from California (Ms. Linda
T. Sanchez) will be postponed.
It is now in order to consider amendment No. 4 printed in House
Report 108-64.
Amendment No. 4 Offered by Mr. Meehan
Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment.
The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will designate the amendment.
The text of the amendment is as follows:
Amendment No. 4 offered by Mr. Meehan:
In section 4(5)(A), strike clause (ii) and insert the
following:
(ii) an action brought against a manufacturer, seller, or
trade association for negligence;
In section 4(5)--
(1) strike ``(A) In general.--'';
(2) strike subparagraph (B); and
(3) redesignate clauses (i) through (v) as subparagraphs
(A) through (E), respectively; and
(4) move the matter preceding the provisions redesignated
by paragraph (3) of this amendment, and each of such
provisions, 2 ems to the left.
The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Resolution 181, the gentleman from
Massachusetts (Mr. Meehan) and a member opposed each will control 10
minutes.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. Meehan).
Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
(Mr. MEEHAN asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)
Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I do not think any industry should be given
blanket immunity for its negligence, especially when it results in the
deaths of innocent people. My amendment would allow the victims of gun
violence to recover damages from the manufacturers or sellers of
firearms where their negligence allows guns to fall into the hands of
criminals. It would ensure that manufacturers, distributors, and
retailers are held responsible for their negligence just as every other
industry and every other individual may be held responsible.
Now, without my amendment, the bill would essentially immunize
manufacturers from lawsuits from victims of gun violence, and it would
allow these victims to sue retailers only under exceedingly narrow
circumstances. Even if my colleagues think strict liability or rather
expansive legal theories should not be available in gun cases, should
we not all be able to agree that a well-settled set of principles of
negligence should apply to guns in the same way that they apply to
virtually every other context under State common law?
As reported by the Committee on the Judiciary, the bill would bar
suits against manufacturers entirely, and it would limit claims against
retailers to theories based on negligent entrustment or negligence per
se. The problem with negligent entrustment is that it would apply only
where the person to whom the gun is supplied uses it in a manner
involving an unreasonable risk or a physical injury to that person or
to others. This means the retailers who negligently sells a gun to a
straw purchaser would not be liable if the ultimate recipient uses the
weapon to shoot a police officer, because straw purchasers transfer
guns to criminals rather than using them themselves to commit the crime
of violence themselves.
So what does that mean? It means this bill really does immunize the
entire chain of suppliers, even when they have reason to know that the
weapons they sell will end up in the hands of criminals. The problem
with negligence per se is that some States do not even recognize that
doctrine. And the ones that do oftentimes require plaintiffs to show
that the retailer has violated a specific statute or regulation that is
expressly designed to protect people from the misuse of guns. This
means that if the seller has reason
[[Page H2988]]
to think a buyer may give the gun to a criminal but the sale complies
with statutory formalities, like the background check, negligence per
se would not apply. This is the reason why my amendment is essential.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentlewoman from Pennsylvania (Ms. Hart) ask
for time in opposition?
Ms. HART. I rise in opposition, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman is recognized for 10 minutes.
Ms. HART. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Having lost the fight in Congress and in the States to deny the
rights of law-abiding firearm owners and to prevent firearm ownership
in general, the gun control lobby has pursued a novel path. They have
begun to abuse the courts by filing frivolous lawsuits, which wastes
time and money in attempts to ruin law-abiding manufacturers and
dealers of lawful firearms.
In fact, the city of Boston has already voluntarily dismissed its
lawsuit against the firearms industry, stating that during the
litigation the city has learned that members of the firearm industry
have a long-standing commitment to reducing firearm accidents and to
reducing criminal misuse of firearms; and also stating that the city
and the industry have now concluded that their common goals can be best
achieved through mutual cooperation and communication rather than
through litigation, which has been expensive to both industry and
taxpayers, time consuming, and distracting in this time of national
crisis. That is last year in Boston.
This bill would prevent such frivolous lawsuits while allowing suits
for negligent entrustment and negligence per se, which are well defined
in the bill. This amendment strikes at the specific negligence language
and replaces it allowing any suit for general negligence, which is
undefined in the amendment.
This amendment guts the bill, Mr. Chairman. It would leave it up to
any judge across the Nation to make a decision whether or not to
single-handedly conjure up any random, brand-new theory of negligence,
a theory that could bankrupt our Nation's firearm industry, seriously
harming our fundamental right to bear arms, and also creating thousands
of new unemployed who formerly worked in the firearms industry.
It is a flawed amendment, Mr. Chairman; and it should be rejected.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Look, there is no need for a definition of what negligence is in this
amendment because negligence has been established in case law all
across this country in all 50 States. All 50 States have case law that
determine what the standard of negligence is. This particular
underlying bill tends to undermine the States' ability for people to go
into court and be made whole that are victims of negligence under those
individual State laws.
Now, it may well be great in Boston that they decided not to follow
through with a suit because it was frivolous. And I believe that to the
extent that frivolous suits are dismissed, even against the gun
companies, that is a fine thing and that is the way it should work. But
let me give an example of why my amendment is necessary.
Let us take for example the case of Ken McGuire and David Lemongello,
two New Jersey police officers who were shot in the line of duty and at
this moment in time are seriously injured. These officers have filed a
civil action against a West Virginia pawnshop that had a clerk sell 12
guns in one cash transaction to a suspicious straw purchaser. Twelve
guns, cash transaction, suspicious straw purchaser.
In fact, the deal was so suspicious that after the sale the pawnshop
later called the ATF to report the sale. Sure enough, this gun
trafficker sold the gun illegally to a known criminal who shot Officer
McGuire and Officer Lemongello. None of the so-called ``exception to
immunity'' confirmed by the committee's mark would prevent their suit
from being dismissed under this bill.
West Virginia law does not even recognize negligence per se, and the
sale apparently complied with all of the relevant statutory
requirements, even though the pawnshop's employee obviously thought the
transaction was extremely suspicious. Their case would fail under the
so-called negligent entrustment exception because they negligently sold
guns to the straw purchaser, not the user of the gun.
The exception for knowingly or willfully would not apply because the
standard of willful intent is extremely difficult to meet, and the bill
seems to suggest that liability arises only where the seller has actual
knowledge that the buyer intends to use the gun to commit a crime.
So this is just one example of why this amendment is needed in a case
that I do not think anyone in this body would want to see dismissed
because of the underlying bill in this case.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Ms. HART. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
The gentleman claims that the bill has too narrow an opportunity for
a legitimate lawsuit to be heard. We have already heard from a court in
his home State suggesting that the current situation is too wide open.
The language in the amendment makes it probably about equal to what it
is today. My question would be, What then do we do?
It is well settled that negligence per se is an accepted theory as
well as negligent entrustment. It is clear that if a gun dealer sells a
gun to someone who is a known criminal, that gun dealer would be liable
under the bill. This amendment is, therefore, not necessary.
All of the frivolous lawsuits filed, however, have been under some
type of general negligence theory. Many activists claim that
manufacturers are negligent for not requiring extraordinarily
burdensome and counterproductive schemes in addition to existing legal
requirements. These activists may claim that any gun designed to suit
the needs of gun buyers or the rules enacted by legislatures in our
democracy, rather than their own policy preferences, is a sign of
negligence. Some activists even claim that when the industry is
successful in selling firearms in a specific region they are guilty of
negligent oversupply and should reduce sales.
This bill is narrowly tailored to block these junk lawsuits while
allowing legitimate causes of action, such as the gentleman described,
to move forward. The Meehan amendment would unravel the logic of the
bill and, therefore, take us back to square one where frivolous suits
are out of hand.
Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, will the gentlewoman yield?
Ms. HART. I yield to the gentleman from Massachusetts.
Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, let me ask a question. What about the case
of Ken McGuire and David Lemongello, two New Jersey police officers
shot in the line of duty and seriously injured at this moment in time?
They want to file a civil suit. Is that a frivolous case suit, and
should they not have a right to go in a State court in New Jersey and
have a judge hear the case and hear the facts of the case? And if the
pawnshop is found guilty, should they not have a remedy in common law
in New Jersey?
{time} 1400
Ms. HART. If there is a theory under which the pawnshop is reasonably
liable, yes. But just because there is injury does not mean that the
seller of the firearm is liable. That is the theory that a lot of these
frivolous suits are based on. There is no question that many people who
file suits have legitimate injury. The question is, who is liable. In
most of these cases, it is not the gun dealer that is liable.
Mr. MEEHAN. If the gentlewoman would continue to yield, what about
this case? There is a pawnshop where somebody comes in and buys 12
guns, and they buy them all with cash and then go out and give them to
known criminals. In fact, the person who sold the guns was so
suspicious that they called the ATF and said, there was a guy in here
who bought 12 guns, they gave me cash, and now they left.
Would the gentlewoman say that is more than a frivolous lawsuit?
Ms. HART. I would tell the gentleman, yes. In this country today, it
is
[[Page H2989]]
required that there be background checks. It is required that those who
purchase firearms use them properly. They are liable themselves if they
do not use them properly, they are liable themselves if they sell them
illegally, and the seller is liable if they sell them illegally.
Therefore, in the gentleman's case, there is no problem if they sell
them legally.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
I would suggest that Officers Ken McGuire and David Lemongello from
New Jersey have a right to have their case heard, and their case should
not be thrown out because of this underlying bill, which would take
away their right to be heard because somehow this person who sold the
guns illegally did not have a background check. In this instance, the
person who sold them was suspicious and they called the ATF. Maybe that
example is not good enough, so let me provide another example of a suit
against a negligent gun manufacturer.
Let us consider the manufacturers that supply weapons to dealers who
repeatedly sell the guns to straw buyers, and then directly to violent
criminals.
Robert Ricker, a former gun industry insider, has alleged that it is
common knowledge within the gun industry that certain sellers routinely
engage in straw purchases. Ricker says manufacturers know who the
problem dealers are because they supply the data to the ATF that they
use to trace the guns that are used back to retailers. I have not heard
Mr. Ricker testify, nor have I had access to any of the discovery in
any of these cases, but I think that is exactly why we need to allow
the suits to proceed, to get to the bottom line what information gun
makers and distributors have about how their firearms wind up being
used in crime.
Under this bill, no jury will ever test the credibility of Mr.
Ricker's statements, and we may never find out what kind of
manufacturer data is about that shows patterns of criminal activity
associated with specific retailers. Let us at least give an opportunity
for the victims of crime, for the people of this country to hear
whether or not Mr. Ricker's statements are credible and stand up in a
court of law where a person has a right to be heard.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Ms. HART. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentlewoman from
Wyoming (Mrs. Cubin).
(Mrs. CUBIN asked and was given permission to revise and extend her
remarks.)
Mrs. CUBIN. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in opposition to this
amendment and all of the other amendments which have been offered today
on this bill, and I encourage Members to vote against the amendments
and for the bill.
I am the mother of two sons. One time when they were young, little
boys, the boys and I were alone at night and we had a burglar break
into our house. The fear that caused me to find out that someone had
been in my house, rifling through my house, really made me take a look
at self-defense and my right to own and bear arms. I became a big
advocate of that at that time.
I appreciate all of the scenarios the other side is throwing out
about why we need this amendment, because I agree, there are too many
deaths due to gunshot wounds in this country. Too many children are
dying because they are getting ahold of weapons that were legally
owned, but were not taken care of correctly and were not separated from
the ammunition. That is happening, and that is a problem. But these
folks have entirely the wrong answer.
We need a common-sense, balanced answer to treating problems like
this, and it does not involve taking away our second amendment, our
right to own and defend ourselves. We not only deserve to be defended
from terrorists home and abroad, but we also deserve to be able to buy
guns to defend ourselves in our own home.
My sons are 25 and 30. They are blond-haired and blue-eyed. One
amendment today said we could not sell guns to anybody under drug
treatment. So does that mean if you go into a black community, you
cannot sell a gun to any black person, or does that mean because my----
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I demand that the words of the gentlewoman
from Wyoming (Mrs. Cubin) be taken down.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. Isakson). The gentlewoman from Wyoming
will suspend and will be seated. The Clerk will report the words.
{time} 1415
For what purpose does the gentlewoman from Wyoming rise?
Mrs. CUBIN. Mr. Chairman, I wanted to point out that I did not break
any rulings of the House, but I also want to point out just as a fellow
Member that I certainly would never say anything or even think anything
that would offend my neighbors on the other side, and well, obviously
it did happen. So I would like to apologize to my colleague for his
sensitivities, but certainly I would never do that. So I would like to
continue on with my remarks. But the next question I wanted to ask is,
does that amendment mean----
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The gentlewoman will suspend. Did the Chair
correctly understand the gentlewoman's statement to say that the
gentlewoman would withdraw the words?
Mrs. CUBIN. No, I will not withdraw the words.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Did the Chair understand the gentlewoman to
say that the gentlewoman apologized if the words were of offense to any
Member of the House?
Mrs. CUBIN. Yes. Yes, I did apologize if the words were offensive to
anyone in the House. But I will not say I broke rules of the House. I
did not. I apologized because as a person I want to do that.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The gentlewoman will suspend.
The Chair would ask the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Watt), the
gentlewoman has apologized to anyone in the House to whom her words
would have been offensive, and the gentleman has asked those words to
be taken down. Does the gentleman insist on his position, or does the
gentleman withdraw his demand?
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I do not need the gentlewoman to apologize
for my sensibilities. She needs to be apologizing for using words that
are insulting to the entire African American race. And if that is what
she is doing, then I gracefully accept her apology. But if she is
saying that this is somehow because I am sensitive to those words, then
I will not.
Mrs. CUBIN. Mr. Chairman, I do not withdraw my words.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. For both Members' edification and the
Chair's, it is the understanding of the Chair that the gentlewoman from
Wyoming (Mrs. Cubin) did not ask unanimous consent to withdraw her
words. The gentlewoman from Wyoming (Mrs. Cubin) did apologize to any
Member in the House to whom there was offense.
Mr. WATT. That is not what she said, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Does the gentleman insist the words be
taken down?
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I do insist, yes.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The Clerk will transcribe and report the
words.
The Clerk read as follows:
My sons are 25 and 30, they are blonde haired and blue eyed. One
amendment today said we could not sell guns to anybody under drug
treatment. So does that mean that if you go into a black community, you
cannot sell a gun to any black person or does that mean because my----
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The Committee will rise.
Accordingly, the Committee rose; and the Speaker pro tempore (Mr.
LaHood) having assumed the chair, Mr. Isakson, Chairman pro tempore of
the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union, reported
that that Committee, having had under consideration the bill (H.R.
1036) to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or
continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of
firearms or ammunition for damages resulting from the misuse of their
products by others, certain words used in debate were objected to and
on request were taken down and read at the
[[Page H2990]]
Clerk's desk, and he herewith reported the same to the House.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Clerk will report the words objected to
in the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union.
The Clerk read as follows:
My sons are 25 and 30, they are blonde haired and blue eyed. One
amendment today said we could not sell guns to anybody under drug
treatment. So does that mean that if you go into a black community, you
cannot sell a gun to any black person or does that mean because my----
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair finds that the words are not
unparliamentary under the rules and precedents of the House.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Speaker, I appeal the ruling of the Chair.
Motion to Table Offered by Mr. Sensenbrenner
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Speaker, I move to lay the appeal on the
table.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on the motion offered by the
gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr. Sensenbrenner) to lay on the table the
appeal of the ruling of the Chair.
The question was taken; and the Speaker pro tempore announced that
the ayes appeared to have it.
Recorded Vote
Mr. WATT. Mr. Speaker, I demand a recorded vote.
A recorded vote was ordered.
The vote was taken by electronic device, and there were--ayes 227,
noes 195, answered ``present'' 1, not voting 11, as follows:
[Roll No. 119]
AYES--227
Aderholt
Akin
Bachus
Baker
Ballenger
Barrett (SC)
Bartlett (MD)
Barton (TX)
Bass
Beauprez
Bereuter
Biggert
Bilirakis
Bishop (UT)
Blackburn
Blunt
Boehlert
Boehner
Bonilla
Bonner
Bono
Boozman
Boucher
Bradley (NH)
Brady (TX)
Brown (SC)
Brown-Waite, Ginny
Burgess
Burns
Burr
Burton (IN)
Buyer
Calvert
Camp
Cannon
Cantor
Capito
Carter
Castle
Chabot
Chocola
Coble
Cole
Collins
Combest
Cox
Crane
Crenshaw
Cubin
Culberson
Cunningham
Davis, Jo Ann
Davis, Tom
Deal (GA)
DeLay
DeMint
Diaz-Balart, L.
Diaz-Balart, M.
Dingell
Doolittle
Dreier
Duncan
Dunn
Ehlers
Emerson
English
Everett
Feeney
Ferguson
Flake
Fletcher
Foley
Forbes
Fossella
Frank (MA)
Franks (AZ)
Frelinghuysen
Gallegly
Garrett (NJ)
Gerlach
Gibbons
Gilchrest
Gillmor
Gingrey
Goode
Goodlatte
Goss
Granger
Graves
Green (WI)
Greenwood
Gutknecht
Harris
Hart
Hastings (WA)
Hayes
Hayworth
Hensarling
Herger
Hobson
Hoekstra
Hostettler
Hulshof
Hunter
Isakson
Issa
Istook
Janklow
Jenkins
Johnson (CT)
Johnson (IL)
Johnson, Sam
Jones (NC)
Keller
Kelly
Kennedy (MN)
King (IA)
King (NY)
Kingston
Kirk
Kline
Knollenberg
Kolbe
LaHood
Latham
LaTourette
Leach
Lewis (CA)
Lewis (KY)
Linder
LoBiondo
Manzullo
McCotter
McCrery
McHugh
McInnis
McKeon
Mica
Miller (FL)
Miller (MI)
Miller, Gary
Moran (KS)
Murphy
Musgrave
Myrick
Nethercutt
Ney
Northup
Norwood
Nunes
Nussle
Obey
Osborne
Ose
Otter
Oxley
Paul
Pearce
Pence
Peterson (PA)
Petri
Pickering
Pitts
Platts
Pombo
Porter
Portman
Pryce (OH)
Putnam
Quinn
Radanovich
Ramstad
Regula
Rehberg
Renzi
Reynolds
Rogers (AL)
Rogers (KY)
Rogers (MI)
Rohrabacher
Ros-Lehtinen
Royce
Ryan (WI)
Saxton
Schrock
Sensenbrenner
Sessions
Shadegg
Shaw
Shays
Sherwood
Shimkus
Shuster
Simmons
Simpson
Smith (MI)
Smith (NJ)
Smith (TX)
Souder
Stearns
Sullivan
Sweeney
Tancredo
Tauzin
Taylor (NC)
Terry
Thomas
Thornberry
Tiahrt
Tiberi
Toomey
Turner (OH)
Upton
Vitter
Walden (OR)
Walsh
Wamp
Weldon (FL)
Weldon (PA)
Weller
Whitfield
Wicker
Wilson (NM)
Wilson (SC)
Wolf
Young (AK)
Young (FL)
NOES--195
Ackerman
Alexander
Allen
Andrews
Baca
Baird
Baldwin
Ballance
Becerra
Bell
Berkley
Berman
Berry
Bishop (GA)
Bishop (NY)
Blumenauer
Boswell
Brady (PA)
Brown (OH)
Brown, Corrine
Capps
Capuano
Cardin
Cardoza
Carson (IN)
Carson (OK)
Case
Clay
Clyburn
Conyers
Cooper
Costello
Cramer
Crowley
Cummings
Davis (AL)
Davis (CA)
Davis (FL)
Davis (IL)
Davis (TN)
DeFazio
DeGette
DeLauro
Deutsch
Dicks
Doggett
Dooley (CA)
Doyle
Edwards
Emanuel
Engel
Eshoo
Etheridge
Evans
Farr
Fattah
Filner
Ford
Frost
Gonzalez
Gordon
Green (TX)
Grijalva
Gutierrez
Hall
Harman
Hastings (FL)
Hill
Hinchey
Hinojosa
Hoeffel
Holden
Holt
Honda
Hooley (OR)
Hoyer
Inslee
Israel
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Jefferson
John
Johnson, E. B.
Jones (OH)
Kanjorski
Kaptur
Kennedy (RI)
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kind
Kleczka
Kucinich
Lampson
Langevin
Lantos
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lipinski
Lofgren
Lowey
Lucas (KY)
Lynch
Majette
Maloney
Markey
Marshall
Matheson
Matsui
McCarthy (NY)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McIntyre
McNulty
Meehan
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Michaud
Millender-McDonald
Miller (NC)
Miller, George
Mollohan
Moore
Moran (VA)
Murtha
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal (MA)
Oberstar
Olver
Ortiz
Owens
Pallone
Pascrell
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Peterson (MN)
Pomeroy
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rodriguez
Ross
Rothman
Roybal-Allard
Ruppersberger
Rush
Ryan (OH)
Sabo
Sanchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Sanders
Sandlin
Schakowsky
Schiff
Scott (GA)
Scott (VA)
Serrano
Sherman
Skelton
Slaughter
Smith (WA)
Snyder
Solis
Spratt
Stark
Stenholm
Stupak
Tanner
Tauscher
Taylor (MS)
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Turner (TX)
Udall (CO)
Udall (NM)
Van Hollen
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Waxman
Weiner
Wexler
Woolsey
Wu
Wynn
ANSWERED ``PRESENT''--1
Abercrombie
NOT VOTING--11
Boyd
Delahunt
Gephardt
Hefley
Houghton
Hyde
Lewis (GA)
Lucas (OK)
McCarthy (MO)
Ryun (KS)
Strickland
Announcement by the Speaker Pro Tempore
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. LaHood) (during the vote). Members are
reminded there are 2 minutes remaining on this vote.
{time} 1453
Messrs. BISHOP of New York, CARSON of Oklahoma, and HALL changed
their vote from ``aye'' to ``no.''
Mr. OXLEY changed his vote from ``no'' to ``aye.''
Mr. ABERCROMBIE changed his vote from ``no'' to ``present.''
So the motion to table was agreed to.
The result of the vote was announced as above recorded.
A motion to reconsider was laid on the table.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Committee will resume its sitting.
Accordingly the House resolved itself into the Committee of the Whole
House on the State of the Union for the further consideration of the
bill, H.R. 1036, with Mr. Quinn (Chairman pro tempore) in the Chair.
(Mrs. CUBIN asked and was given permission to speak out of order.)
Stereotyping Is Always Wrong
Mrs. CUBIN. Mr. Chairman, I do appreciate the Chair's ruling and the
fact that it was upheld, but this is not something that I can just
leave as it is, because I do not think that the situation that just
occurred is good for the body, and it is not good for the individual
people involved in it.
My words intended to state, and if I had been able to finish my
sentence and my thought, they would have stated that I do not believe
in stereotyping anyone, any time, ever, for anything. That is what I
believe, and I believe that from the bottom of my heart. I do
apologize, not just to the gentleman from North Carolina. I apologize
to everyone who may have been hurt in any way or insulted because of my
remarks. But I really intend only, only to make the point, and I will
speak on this bill later, but to make the point that stereotyping is
always wrong. It does not matter who it is; it is always a wrong thing
to do.
I thank the Chairman, and I thank the gentleman for allowing me to
have the time to address the body.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from
Massachusetts (Mr. Meehan), who has 2 minutes remaining.
Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself 1 minute.
Mr. Chairman, my amendment would not gut the underlying bill. It
would still bar claims based on strict liability. Without my amendment,
there is
[[Page H2991]]
no way to sue for negligence cases of straw purchases. Do not forget
the case of Ken McGuire and David Lemongello, two New Jersey police
officers who were shot in the line of duty and seriously injured. They
filed a civil action in West Virginia because a pawnshop clerk sold 12
guns for cash to a straw purchaser. Those two police officers ought to
have the right to have their case heard in court in West Virginia. This
case would deny them, because the purchaser of the guns was a straw
purchaser.
Ms. HART. Mr. Chairman, I wish to reserve the right to close.
Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I yield the remainder of my time to the
gentleman from Rhode Island (Mr. Langevin), a distinguished member of
the Committee on Armed Services.
{time} 1500
Mr. LANGEVIN. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for yielding time
to me.
Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the efforts of the gentleman from
Massachusetts (Mr. Meehan) to hold gun dealers and manufacturers truly
accountable for negligence and strongly support his amendment.
Our Nation is familiar with cases of gun dealers who sell to
criminals and claim ignorance about their intentions. Bullseye Shooter
Supply, the Washington State gun dealer that was the source of the
sniper rifle allegedly used by John Mohammed and John Lee Malvo in the
D.C. sniper shootings, says it cannot account for that weapon, or 237
other guns in its inventory. We should be cracking down on deadbeat gun
dealers, not exempting them from liability.
I have introduced legislation to improve enforcement and inspection
of these facilities, and I thank the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr.
Meehan) for his support of that measure and for drawing attention to
this matter with his amendment today.
I strongly urge my colleagues to support the Meehan amendment.
Ms. HART. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, the amendment is not helpful to the cause that the
gentleman appears to be seeking to address. The amendment actually
removes the cause of action for negligent entrustment, which means that
someone who should have known has entrusted a firearm to someone who is
going to do damage with it.
This bill protects the right to sue for that reason. This bill
protects the right to sue for negligence, per se. This bill is simply
addressing an issue that is very widespread in this Nation, that is,
suits that are intended to bankrupt gun dealers, gun manufacturers; and
therefore, put out of business small business people and out of work
many people across the Nation who depend upon a very strong firearms
industry and recreational use of firearms, safe and legal.
Mr. Chairman, there is a better way to deal with the issue of illegal
use of firearms, which is what the gentleman has cited in his examples.
There is a better way to control gun crimes. These lawsuits do not
help. These lawsuits, in fact, will bankrupt the companies that need to
pay legitimate lawsuits.
We need to enforce the many gun laws that are currently on the books.
I am proud to support Project Safe Neighborhoods, a proven and common-
sense way to combat gun violence. Project Safe Neighborhoods is
operating in 94 locations across the country. It is a network of
Federal, State, and local law enforcement officials working together to
fight gun crime. The program works. Increases in prosecution, over 20
percent, occurred last year.
We must combat gun crimes by enforcing our gun laws, that is what
works, not with ridiculous and frivolous lawsuits. H.R. 1036, as it is,
precludes frivolous lawsuits; it protects the rights of America's law-
abiding manufacturers, dealers, and owners of firearms. It makes sure
those who use them illegally, who sell them illegally, who offer them
to someone else illegally are taken care of through the courts.
What we do here, Mr. Chairman, is create a bill that will allow
legitimate suits, curb frivolous suits, and allow recovery by those who
really need it.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. Quinn). All time has expired.
The question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from
Massachusetts (Mr. Meehan).
The question was taken; and the Chairman pro tempore announced that
the noes appeared to have it.
Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I demand a recorded vote.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursuant to clause 6 of rule XVIII, further
proceedings on the amendment offered by the gentleman from
Massachusetts (Mr. Meehan) will be postponed.
It is now in order to consider amendment No. 5 printed in House
Report 108-64.
Amendment No. 5 Offered by Mr. Watt
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I offer amendment No. 5.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The Clerk will designate amendment No. 5.
The text of amendment No. 5 is as follows:
Amendment No. 5 offered by Mr. Watt:
In section 2(a)(2), strike ``, distributors, dealers, and
importers''.
In section 2(a)(3)--
(1) strike ``, importation, possession, sale, and use'';
and
(2) strike ``are'' and insert ``is''.
In section 2(a)(4), strike ``, manufacture, marketing,
distribution, importation, or sale to the public'' and insert
``and manufacture''.
In section 2(a)(5), strike ``an entire industry'' and
insert ``firearm and ammunition manufacturers''.
In section 2(b)(1)--
(1) strike ``, distributors, dealers, and importers''; and
(2) strike ``or unlawful''.
In section 2(b)(5), strike ``, distributors, dealers, and
importers of firearms or ammunition products, and trade
associations,'' and insert ``of firearms or ammunition
products''.
In section 4(1), strike ``, and, as applied'' and all that
follows and insert a period.
In section 4(5)(A)--
(1) strike ``(A) In general.--'';
(2) strike ``or seller of a qualified product, or a trade
association,'';
(3) strike ``or unlawful'';
(4) strike clauses (i) and (ii);
(5) in clause (iii)--
(A) strike ``or seller''; and
(B) strike ``sale or marketing'' and insert ``design or
manufacture''; and
(6) redesignate and indent clauses (iii) through
(v) as subparagraphs (A) through (C), respectively.
In section 4(5), strike subparagraph (B).
In section 4, strike paragraphs (6) and (8) and redesignate
paragraph (7) as paragraph (6).
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursuant to House Resolution 181, the
gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Watt) and a Member opposed each will
control 10 minutes.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Watt).
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, I would say to my colleagues that the effect of this
amendment would be to limit the application of this bill to
manufacturers only.
As I said during the brief debate that we had in the committee, the
Committee on the Judiciary, on this bill, there are, in fact, some
manufacturers who are attempting to address concerns that the public
has about gun safety. Some of them are trying to develop safety locks.
Some are trying to develop computerized techniques for ownership
identification.
If there is a rationale for this bill, which I do not believe there
is, the rationale would be to reward those manufacturers who are acting
responsibly. Unfortunately, the effect of this bill will be to reward
them and incentivize them to act irresponsibly. I think that is a very,
very unfortunate consequence of this bill.
On the other hand, most of the outrageous stories that we hear about
irresponsibility are not necessarily about the manufacturers of guns;
they are about dealers and sellers who refuse to acknowledge anything
other than their own profit motives. They want, when someone walks into
their store, when somebody walks into their pawnshop, when somebody
approaches them with some money, they want that money and they do not
care what happens after that. We have heard example after example after
example of that kind of irresponsibility on the part of dealers.
Now, it is unfortunate that this bill covers not only manufacturers,
it covers dealers, sellers, importers, the whole range of providers
that put these guns into the stream of commerce. If there is any
rationale for the bill, it is for the manufacturers.
[[Page H2992]]
I do not think we ought to be excusing irresponsible dealers, such as
the dealer who ignored the frequent disappearance of guns from his
inventory. One of hundreds of missing guns, which were never reported
missing despite having been prominently displayed in the store, ends up
being used in the sniper attacks in Washington. This bill would
immunize that dealer from liability. That is irresponsible.
Mr. Chairman, let us have a debate about those manufacturers who are
being responsible. I applaud their activities. Perhaps we could make a
reasonable argument that they should be immunized from liability
because they are making a product that is legal. I have heard that
argument. I do not subscribe to it, but at least it has some
credibility to it. But when we start immunizing everybody in the stream
of commerce regardless of how responsible or irresponsible they are,
that is where I draw the line.
Mr. Chairman, I would encourage a ``yes'' vote on my amendment, which
limits the impact of this bill to manufacturers only.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the amendment.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The gentleman from Utah (Mr. Cannon) is
recognized for 10 minutes.
(Mr. CANNON asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)
Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, the Watt amendment strikes language throughout the bill
protecting dealers and importers of firearms, as well as trade
associations. Under the amendment of the gentleman from North Carolina
(Mr. Watt), only firearms manufacturers would receive protection from
lawsuits based on criminal misuse of their product by a third party.
This amendment would gut the bill and the firearms industry.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from Florida (Mr.
Weldon).
Mr. WELDON of Florida. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for
yielding time to me.
As one of the 250 cosponsors of H.R. 1036, the Protection of Lawful
Commerce in Arms Act, I rise in strong support of this bill and against
this amendment.
The right of law-abiding citizens to purchase and own firearms is
guaranteed in the second amendment. Those behind these lawsuits have
one aim, and that is to undermine the guarantee in the Bill of Rights.
As we speak, anti-second amendment organizations are shopping around
for sympathetic judges who will be willing to rule that firearms
manufacturers are liable for individuals using guns in the commission
of crimes. While virtually every lawsuit brought against gun
manufacturers has been thrown out of court, it is only a matter of time
until a liberal judge, sympathetic to the anti-second amendment lobby,
rules in their favor.
The aim of these suits is to tie up firearms manufacturers in court
and raise the cost of firearms to those who purchase them legally. The
only end result of these lawsuits would be a larger underground market
in firearms.
Defenders in these lawsuits will say it is about justice for crime
victims. The true impetus behind these lawsuits, however, is to bypass
the Congress, the will of the American people, and to enact de facto
gun control by using the courts.
Gun control advocates have come to realize that they have very little
chance of moving their anti-second amendment agenda through Congress,
so they have turned to excessive lawsuits and the courts. This
legislation not only will not protect gun distributors who do not
follow the strict laws regarding firearms; it will also not protect
manufacturers that sell defective products. It merely protects firearms
manufacturers who are abiding by the law from frivolous lawsuits
designed to bankrupt legal, law-abiding gun manufacturers.
No one would think of holding GM responsible for an accident caused
by a drunk driver, or Louisville Slugger responsible for someone using
a baseball bat in the commission of a crime. So why should law-abiding
firearms manufacturers be punished for criminals using their products
illegally?
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2\1/2\ minutes to the gentleman from
Illinois (Mr. Rush).
Mr. RUSH. Mr. Chairman, I want to thank the gentleman for yielding
time to me. I rise to support the Watt amendment and to oppose passage
of the irresponsible and shameful underlying bill.
Mr. Chairman, I fully understand that many sponsors of this bill have
progun constituents who have been unrelenting in their blind fight to
preserve and to expand their ability to bear arms.
I can appreciate the willingness of any Representative to consider
the interests of his or her constituents. But, Mr. Chairman, what I
cannot appreciate is the willingness of some to support legislation
that so maliciously attacks the will of my constituents to bring
legitimate actions before their individual State courts.
What I cannot appreciate is the unwillingness of the majority to
allow consideration of amendments at committee. It is appalling and
shameful that a bill which may have such far-reaching consequences for
so many did not enjoy the consideration that it deserves. And what I
cannot appreciate is the emboldened eagerness of some Representatives
to sponsor legislation that so clearly places the special interests of
the gun lobby ahead of the vital interests of the American people.
Mr. Chairman, I am aware that the sponsors of this bill closed the
so-called ``negligent entrustment'' loophole. But if this bill is
passed, no supporter, and I repeat, no supporter should walk away
believing that the tragedies committed and contemplated under the
original bill will not happen under this one.
I would ask the Members of this body to consider the case of an
Illinois gun dealer who should have known that 72 mostly identical guns
that he sold to an unlicensed gun trafficker were not for personal use.
One of those guns was used by Benjamin Smith, a white supremacist who
drove through Chicago and Indiana, randomly shooting blacks and Jews,
including former Northwestern University basketball coach Ricky
Byrdsong.
Indeed, Mr. Speaker, if this bill passes, we in Congress will be no
better than the unscrupulous and irresponsible gun dealer who turned a
blind eye to the violence and mayhem that his actions ultimately
caused.
Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, in response to the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. Rush),
who calls this bill irresponsible and shameful, let me just point out
that a gun dealer who does wrong things is still going to be liable
under this bill. A very large majority of Members of this body have
already cosponsored the bill, just in refutation.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gentlewoman from Wyoming (Mrs.
Cubin).
{time} 1515
Mrs. CUBIN. Mr. Chairman, I would like to point out that the laws we
have in existence today are very, very adequate to take care of all the
situations that have been brought up by Members on the other side if
they are enforced.
The changes that need to be made in this country are to do things
like to fund drug treatment programs, to fund the war on drugs, to help
single parents be able to find time to give guidance to their children,
to have doctors not be afraid to ask their patients if they have guns
in their house, and if they have guns in their house, how do they store
them. They ask every other health care issue about patients.
We need to change our society, and we need to acknowledge that gun
ownership is not an unhealthy thing, but what is unhealthy is not
enforcing the laws that we have on the books right now; and the laws
that we have are totally adequate.
I urge my fellow Members to reject this amendment and support this
bill and protect our second amendment rights.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gentlewoman from Ohio
(Mrs. Jones).
Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank the gentleman
from North Carolina (Mr. Watt) for yielding me time.
As I sat here on the floor today, the spirit and the greatness of
great trial
[[Page H2993]]
judges and great trial lawyers have been disparaged by a claim that we
are just seeking dollars on behalf of our constituents and our clients.
I would say I support the amendment of the gentleman from North
Carolina (Mr. Watt) because it does, in fact, limit the responsibility
against manufacturers of guns and those who have made steps to cure the
dilemma or the difficulty or the dangerousness of guns. But I would
suggest that if the laws are sufficient, then give trial judges and
give trial lawyers the ability to bring their claims on behalf of their
clients and let us proceed as we have done. I support the Watt
amendment.
Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I yield to myself such time as I may
consume.
Mr. Chairman, in response to the gentlewoman from Ohio (Mrs. Jones),
this is not about trial lawyers and their profits. That would come
under the rubric maybe of asbestos where they are taking huge returns
compared to the minor returns that the individuals are taking.
Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. CANNON. I yield to the gentlewoman from Ohio.
Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I am only responding to the
statement of another Member that disparaged the faith and loyalty of
trial lawyers on the floor just before I got up.
Mr. CANNON. Reclaiming my time, this is not a bill that deals with
that issue, let me point out for clarifications purposes, but it is
about people who would destroy an industry using the thousand cuts of
litigation.
Mr. John Coale, one of the personal injury lawyers suing the firearms
industry, told The Washington Post: ``The legal fees alone are enough
to bankrupt the industry.'' That is what is going on that we are trying
to deal with here with this legislation.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 3\1/4\ minutes to the gentleman from Florida
(Mr. Stearns), the author of the underlying bill.
(Mr. STEARNS asked and was given permission to revise and extend his
remarks.)
Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I thank my colleague from Utah (Mr.
Cannon) for yielding me time.
Let me say to my colleagues that the grievances that you have perhaps
with the way the rule was developed or the procedure is really not a
reason to vote against this bill. And I rise against the Watt
amendment.
Local dealers or distributors are often sued simply to prevent
removal of a case to a Federal court. Should trade associations be sued
under conspiracy theories of industry behavior? I mean, that would
create a chilling effect on advocacy of their membership, their
interests, their activity, which is clearly protected by the first
amendment.
The Watt amendment would allow them to be sued, local dealers, trade
association. So I think it is clear, the Watt amendment would actually
hurt the bill.
Let me call your attention as we conclude this debate to my chart
here which shows that 31 States have recognized the absurdity of these
lawsuits which are no different from the ridiculous lawsuits we saw
filed against many other cases including the food industry. The goal is
to cease this attempt at regulation through lawsuits, and that is why
these 31 State passed pretty much the same bill that we have here on
the floor today.
The second chart I will show you examples where cases are dismissed.
This is just one of many charts I could have up here, 30 or 40 cases.
For example, in Bridgeport where 21 manufacturers and distributors and
12 dealers and three were sued for negligent distribution, deceptive
advertising, defective design, nuisance, conspiracy and unjust
enrichment, unjust enrichment. Now, they proceeded but when they got
not too far along, they were dismissed. And the Supreme Court of
Connecticut affirmed that.
So I would say to all my colleagues that the States have recognized
this, and that is why there are 31 States that have supported the
language in this bill.
Let me just read what the judge in the lawsuit against the firearm
industry in the City of Bridgeport said. What has happened here, the
people who are suing ``have envisioned the dawning of a new age of
litigation.'' A new age of litigation, during which the gun industry,
the liquor industry, the purveyors of junk food would follow the
tobacco industry in reimbursing government expenditures. So taxpayers
would have to pay at the local level, at the municipal level, at the
State level to sue gun dealers, associations, gun manufacturers, all on
the basis of unjust enrichment, deceptive advertising.
So I conclude, I believe this bill is responsible. Attempting to
bankrupt a legal American industry through junk lawsuits is not. This
bill protects legal actors while allowing suits to continue against
those who break the law. It is a good balance, a fair bill; and I urge
its passage.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. Quinn). The Chair would remind Members
that the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Watt) has 2\1/2\ minutes
remaining. The gentleman from Utah (Mr. Cannon) has 1\3/4\ minutes
remaining, and the gentleman from Utah reserves the right to close.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Watt).
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I am prepared to close if the gentleman does
not have other speakers.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Does the gentleman from Utah (Mr. Cannon)
have further speakers?
Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I have one further speaker, and then I will
close.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 30 seconds to the gentlewoman from Colorado
(Mrs. Musgrave).
Mrs. MUSGRAVE. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to this amendment.
This amendments paints all dealers with a very broad brush. In fact,
every one of us knows that all retail gun sales are subject to a
Federal criminal background check, either directly by the FBI or by a
system that the individual States use. If a dealer violates any Federal
or State law on gun sales, it loses its protection under this bill. If
retailers are sued out of business, the protection for the
manufacturers would be absolutely meaningless. This is a blatant attack
on our second amendment rights and on our law-abiding citizens.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The gentleman from North Carolina (Mr.
Watt) has 2\1/2\ minutes remaining.
Mr. WATT. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself the remainder of my time.
Mr. Chairman, let me say that if we want to protect dealers simply
because they comply with the letter of the law, even though they know
that they are making irresponsible decisions such as in the case of the
officer, Officer Lemongello, who was shot by a gun that was sold by a
dealer, they did follow all of the black letter of the law; but at the
same time they knew that they were selling the guns not to the person
who bought them, to the female person who bought the guns, but to the
male person who was in there selecting the guns and identifying them.
And they were so concerned that as soon as they walked out of the store
they called ATF and said we have done something irresponsible, even
though they had complied with the law.
Now, all we are trying to do is make dealers and everybody throughout
the process be responsible. And if we want to immunize that kind of
conduct, then, I mean, I guess you are going to vote for this bill.
Because that is what it does. But I am telling you we are being
irresponsible when we do that. And if we really want to reward people
who are trying to deal with gun violence, then we cannot keep rewarding
dealers who act irresponsibly knowing that they act irresponsibly,
importers, sellers. Perhaps there is a rationale for protecting
manufacturers who have demonstrated a willingness to try to act
responsibly. Some of them are trying to do the trigger lock thing,
trying to do computerized identification. I think this bill is going to
set them back because basically once we pass this bill, they do not
have any incentive to even continue to do that.
But if there is anybody who has a rationale, it perhaps is the
manufacturers; and that is what this amendment would do, limit the
effects of the bill to the manufacturers. I encourage my colleagues to
support the amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The gentleman from Utah (Mr. Cannon) has
1\1/4\ minutes remaining, and he has the right to close.
Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself the balance of my time.
[[Page H2994]]
Mr. Chairman, I would like to point out we have heard much
characterization of the dealer who sold the gun to the person who ended
up getting the gun to the criminal who shot Officer Lemongello. Let me
point out that if the characterization that has been overwrought and
overstated by the opposition is correct, then there is a claim under
the law that is not preempted by this bill for Mr. Lemongello to seek
redress.
The fact is this bill does not take away the traditional common-law
claims for negligent entrustment and violations of law. It only makes
it clear that frivolous lawsuits cannot proceed erratically around the
country.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to read two quotes to finish up. First of
all, let me point out that the industry has been responsible.
When the city of Boston voluntarily dismissed its lawsuit against the
firearms industry, they said, ``During litigation the city has learned
that the members of the firearm industry have a long-standing
commitment to reducing firearm accidents and reducing criminal misuse
of firearms.'' And they go on and make further points.
So what is this bill all about? What is the litigation all about that
we are trying to deal with in this bill. It is about what John Coale
said: ``The legal fees alone are enough to bankrupt the industry.''
What we want to do is protect the industry in America. I urge the
Members to vote against this amendment and other amendments and support
the underlying bill.
Mr. HASTINGS of Florida. Mr. Chairman, this legislation is part of a
gun industry effort to preempt cities and counties across the United
States from exercising their legal right to reform dangerous gun
industry practices. Worst yet, under the measure, any case pending at
the time of enactment would be dismissed. I support the amendment
proposed by Representative Watt because it will restore an individual
plaintiff's ability to pursue all currently accepted product liability
causes of action. Thus, existing gun victims will be allowed to
exercise their right to a day in court. It will further the goals of
this civilized society, which is based on the rule of law.
There are many examples--from the lawsuit brought because Ford Pintos
were exploding to the toxic pollutant cases against Pacific Gas &
Electric made famous in the movie ``Erin Brockovich''--that individuals
can get justice in a courtroom from the reckless and irresponsible
actions of gunmakers and dealers. But if H.R. 1036 is enacted into law
without this amendment, cases such as these will immediately after
enactment be thrown out of court.
The pending case filed by Pamela Grunow, a resident of Palm Beach
County, would also be immediately dismissed. On May 26, 2000, 13-year-
old student Nathaniel Brazil shot and killed his language arts teacher
Barry Grunow at Lake Worth Middle School, in my district. Pamela Grunow
is seeking to hold the distributor of the gun responsible for selling
an unreasonably dangerous and defective product. My colleagues, we do
not know better than the state governments legislating on this issue,
or the judges listening to these lawsuits.
The Majority, encouraged by a forceful and wealthy industry, is
pushing Congress to enact a disastrous bill to give gunmakers and
dealers extraordinary shelter from liability suits. Without this
amendment, gun victims will be harmed by the federal legislature. The
Watt amendment will not fix the underlying bill, but will make it more
responsible in the short term. I thank the Congressman from North
Carolina for his efforts, and I encourage my colleagues to support this
amendment.
Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The question is on the amendment offered by
the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Watt).
The amendment was rejected.
Sequential Votes Postponed In Committee Of The Whole
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursuant to clause 6 of rule XVIII,
proceedings will now resume on those amendments on which further
proceedings were postponed in the following order: amendment No. 2 by
Mr. Scott of Virginia, amendment No. 3 by Ms. Linda T. Sanchez of
California, amendment No. 4 by Mr. Meehan of Massachusetts.
The Chair will reduce to 5 minutes the time for any electronic vote
after the first vote of this series.
Amendment No. 2 Offered By Mr. Scott of Virginia
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The pending business is the request for a
recorded vote on amendment No. 2 by the gentleman from Virginia (Mr.
Scott) on which further proceedings were postponed and on which the
noes prevailed by voice vote.
The Clerk will redesignate the amendment.
The Clerk redesignated the amendment.
Recorded Vote
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. A recorded vote has been demanded.
A recorded vote was ordered.
The vote was taken by electronic device, and there were--ayes 148,
noes 278, not voting 8, as follows:
[Roll No. 120]
AYES--148
Abercrombie
Ackerman
Allen
Andrews
Baird
Baldwin
Ballance
Becerra
Berman
Bishop (NY)
Blumenauer
Brady (PA)
Brown (OH)
Brown, Corrine
Capps
Capuano
Cardin
Carson (IN)
Case
Castle
Clay
Clyburn
Conyers
Crowley
Cummings
Davis (AL)
Davis (CA)
Davis (FL)
Davis (IL)
DeGette
Delahunt
DeLauro
Deutsch
Dicks
Doggett
Doyle
Emanuel
Engel
Eshoo
Etheridge
Evans
Farr
Fattah
Filner
Ford
Frank (MA)
Frost
Gephardt
Gonzalez
Gutierrez
Harman
Hastings (FL)
Hinojosa
Hoeffel
Holt
Honda
Hoyer
Inslee
Israel
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Jefferson
Johnson, E. B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kennedy (RI)
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kirk
Kleczka
Kucinich
Langevin
Lantos
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lofgren
Lowey
Lynch
Majette
Maloney
Markey
Matsui
McCarthy (NY)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McNulty
Meehan
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller (NC)
Miller, George
Moore
Moran (VA)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal (MA)
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pascrell
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rangel
Rodriguez
Rothman
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Schakowsky
Schiff
Scott (VA)
Serrano
Sherman
Slaughter
Smith (WA)
Snyder
Solis
Spratt
Stark
Tauscher
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (CO)
Udall (NM)
Van Hollen
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Waxman
Weiner
Wexler
Woolsey
Wu
Wynn
NOES--278
Aderholt
Akin
Alexander
Baca
Bachus
Baker
Ballenger
Barrett (SC)
Bartlett (MD)
Barton (TX)
Bass
Beauprez
Bell
Bereuter
Berkley
Biggert
Bilirakis
Bishop (GA)
Bishop (UT)
Blackburn
Blunt
Boehlert
Boehner
Bonilla
Bonner
Bono
Boozman
Boswell
Boucher
Bradley (NH)
Brady (TX)
Brown (SC)
Brown-Waite, Ginny
Burgess
Burns
Burr
Burton (IN)
Buyer
Calvert
Camp
Cannon
Cantor
Capito
Cardoza
Carson (OK)
Carter
Chabot
Chocola
Coble
Cole
Collins
Combest
Cooper
Costello
Cox
Cramer
Crane
Crenshaw
Cubin
Culberson
Cunningham
Davis (TN)
Davis, Jo Ann
Davis, Tom
Deal (GA)
DeFazio
DeLay
DeMint
Diaz-Balart, L.
Diaz-Balart, M.
Dingell
Dooley (CA)
Doolittle
Dreier
Duncan
Dunn
Edwards
Ehlers
Emerson
English
Everett
Feeney
Ferguson
Flake
Fletcher
Foley
Forbes
Fossella
Franks (AZ)
Frelinghuysen
Gallegly
Garrett (NJ)
Gerlach
Gibbons
Gilchrest
Gillmor
Gingrey
Goode
Goodlatte
Gordon
Goss
Granger
Graves
Green (TX)
Green (WI)
Greenwood
Grijalva
Gutknecht
Hall
Harris
Hart
Hastings (WA)
Hayes
Hayworth
Hefley
Hensarling
Herger
Hill
Hinchey
Hobson
Hoekstra
Holden
Hooley (OR)
Hostettler
Hulshof
Hunter
Isakson
Issa
Istook
Janklow
Jenkins
John
Johnson (CT)
Johnson (IL)
Johnson, Sam
Jones (NC)
Kanjorski
Keller
Kelly
Kennedy (MN)
Kind
King (IA)
King (NY)
Kingston
Kline
Knollenberg
Kolbe
LaHood
Lampson
Larsen (WA)
Latham
LaTourette
Leach
Lewis (CA)
Lewis (KY)
Linder
Lipinski
LoBiondo
Lucas (KY)
Manzullo
Marshall
Matheson
McCotter
McCrery
McHugh
McInnis
McIntyre
McKeon
Mica
Michaud
Miller (FL)
Miller (MI)
Miller, Gary
Mollohan
Moran (KS)
Murphy
Murtha
Musgrave
Myrick
Nethercutt
Ney
Northup
Norwood
Nunes
Nussle
Oberstar
Ortiz
Osborne
Ose
Otter
Oxley
Paul
Pearce
Pence
Peterson (MN)
Petri
Pickering
Pitts
Platts
Pombo
Pomeroy
Porter
Portman
Pryce (OH)
Putnam
Quinn
Radanovich
Rahall
Ramstad
Regula
Rehberg
Renzi
Reyes
Reynolds
Rogers (AL)
Rogers (KY)
Rogers (MI)
Rohrabacher
[[Page H2995]]
Ros-Lehtinen
Ross
Royce
Ruppersberger
Ryan (OH)
Ryan (WI)
Sanders
Sandlin
Saxton
Schrock
Scott (GA)
Sensenbrenner
Sessions
Shadegg
Shaw
Shays
Sherwood
Shimkus
Shuster
Simmons
Simpson
Skelton
Smith (MI)
Smith (NJ)
Smith (TX)
Souder
Stearns
Stenholm
Strickland
Stupak
Sullivan
Sweeney
Tancredo
Tanner
Tauzin
Taylor (MS)
Taylor (NC)
Terry
Thomas
Thornberry
Tiahrt
Tiberi
Toomey
Turner (OH)
Turner (TX)
Upton
Vitter
Walden (OR)
Walsh
Wamp
Weldon (FL)
Weldon (PA)
Weller
Whitfield
Wicker
Wilson (NM)
Wilson (SC)
Wolf
Young (AK)
Young (FL)
NOT VOTING--8
Berry
Boyd
Houghton
Hyde
Lucas (OK)
McCarthy (MO)
Peterson (PA)
Ryun (KS)
Announcement by the Speaker Pro Tempore
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Quinn) (during the vote). Members would
be reminded they have 2 minutes in which to cast their votes.
{time} 1548
Messrs. BARTLETT of Maryland, WELDON of Florida, REYNOLDS, BROWN of
South Carolina, and BELL changed their vote from ``aye'' to ``no.''
Messrs. KLECZKA, THOMPSON of California, VISCLOSKY, and KIRK changed
their vote from ``no'' to ``aye.''
So the amendment was rejected.
The result of the vote was announced as above recorded.
Announcement by the Chairman Pro Tempore
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. Quinn). Pursuant to clause 6 of rule
XVIII, the remainder of this series will all be conducted as 5-minute
votes.
Amendment No. 3 Offered by Ms. Linda T. Sanchez of California
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The pending business is the demand for a
recorded vote on the amendment offered by the gentlewoman from
California (Ms. Linda T. Sanchez) on which further proceedings were
postponed and on which the noes prevailed by voice vote.
The Clerk will redesignate the amendment.
The Clerk redesignated the amendment.
Recorded Vote
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. A recorded vote has been demanded.
A recorded vote was ordered.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. This is a 5-minute vote.
The vote was taken by electronic device, and there were--ayes 134,
noes 289, not voting 11, as follows:
[Roll No. 121]
AYES--134
Abercrombie
Ackerman
Allen
Andrews
Baldwin
Ballance
Becerra
Bell
Berkley
Berman
Bishop (NY)
Blumenauer
Brady (PA)
Brown (OH)
Brown, Corrine
Capps
Capuano
Cardin
Carson (IN)
Case
Clay
Clyburn
Conyers
Crowley
Cummings
Davis (CA)
Davis (FL)
Davis (IL)
DeGette
Delahunt
Deutsch
Dicks
Doggett
Doyle
Emanuel
Engel
Eshoo
Etheridge
Evans
Farr
Fattah
Filner
Frank (MA)
Gephardt
Grijalva
Gutierrez
Hastings (FL)
Hoeffel
Holt
Honda
Hoyer
Inslee
Israel
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kennedy (RI)
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
Langevin
Lantos
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lofgren
Lowey
Lynch
Majette
Maloney
Markey
Matsui
McCarthy (NY)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McNulty
Meehan
Meek (FL)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller (NC)
Miller, George
Moran (VA)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal (MA)
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pascrell
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Ramstad
Rangel
Rothman
Roybal-Allard
Ruppersberger
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Schakowsky
Schiff
Scott (VA)
Serrano
Shays
Sherman
Slaughter
Solis
Spratt
Stark
Tauscher
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (CO)
Udall (NM)
Van Hollen
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Waxman
Weiner
Wexler
Woolsey
Wu
Wynn
NOES--289
Aderholt
Akin
Alexander
Baca
Bachus
Baird
Baker
Ballenger
Barrett (SC)
Bartlett (MD)
Barton (TX)
Bass
Beauprez
Bereuter
Berry
Biggert
Bilirakis
Bishop (GA)
Bishop (UT)
Blackburn
Blunt
Boehlert
Boehner
Bonilla
Bonner
Bono
Boozman
Boswell
Boucher
Bradley (NH)
Brady (TX)
Brown (SC)
Brown-Waite, Ginny
Burgess
Burns
Burr
Burton (IN)
Buyer
Calvert
Camp
Cannon
Cantor
Capito
Cardoza
Carson (OK)
Carter
Castle
Chabot
Chocola
Coble
Cole
Collins
Combest
Costello
Cox
Cramer
Crane
Crenshaw
Cubin
Culberson
Cunningham
Davis (AL)
Davis (TN)
Davis, Jo Ann
Davis, Tom
Deal (GA)
DeFazio
DeLauro
DeLay
DeMint
Diaz-Balart, L.
Diaz-Balart, M.
Dingell
Dooley (CA)
Doolittle
Dreier
Duncan
Dunn
Edwards
Ehlers
Emerson
English
Everett
Feeney
Ferguson
Flake
Fletcher
Foley
Forbes
Ford
Fossella
Franks (AZ)
Frelinghuysen
Frost
Gallegly
Garrett (NJ)
Gerlach
Gibbons
Gilchrest
Gillmor
Gingrey
Gonzalez
Goode
Goodlatte
Gordon
Goss
Granger
Graves
Green (TX)
Green (WI)
Greenwood
Gutknecht
Hall
Harman
Harris
Hart
Hastings (WA)
Hayes
Hayworth
Hefley
Hensarling
Herger
Hill
Hinchey
Hinojosa
Hobson
Hoekstra
Holden
Hooley (OR)
Hostettler
Hulshof
Hunter
Isakson
Issa
Istook
Janklow
Jefferson
Jenkins
John
Johnson (CT)
Johnson (IL)
Johnson, E. B.
Johnson, Sam
Jones (NC)
Kanjorski
Keller
Kelly
Kennedy (MN)
Kind
King (IA)
King (NY)
Kingston
Kirk
Kline
Knollenberg
Kolbe
LaHood
Lampson
Larsen (WA)
Latham
LaTourette
Leach
Lewis (KY)
Linder
Lipinski
LoBiondo
Lucas (KY)
Manzullo
Marshall
Matheson
McCotter
McCrery
McHugh
McInnis
McIntyre
McKeon
Mica
Michaud
Miller (FL)
Miller (MI)
Miller, Gary
Mollohan
Moore
Moran (KS)
Murphy
Murtha
Musgrave
Myrick
Nethercutt
Ney
Northup
Norwood
Nunes
Nussle
Oberstar
Obey
Ortiz
Osborne
Ose
Otter
Oxley
Paul
Pearce
Pence
Peterson (MN)
Petri
Pickering
Pitts
Platts
Pombo
Pomeroy
Porter
Portman
Pryce (OH)
Putnam
Quinn
Radanovich
Rahall
Regula
Rehberg
Renzi
Reyes
Reynolds
Rodriguez
Rogers (AL)
Rogers (KY)
Rogers (MI)
Rohrabacher
Ros-Lehtinen
Ross
Royce
Ryan (OH)
Ryan (WI)
Sanders
Sandlin
Saxton
Schrock
Scott (GA)
Sensenbrenner
Sessions
Shadegg
Shaw
Sherwood
Shimkus
Shuster
Simmons
Simpson
Skelton
Smith (MI)
Smith (NJ)
Smith (TX)
Smith (WA)
Snyder
Souder
Stearns
Stenholm
Strickland
Stupak
Sullivan
Sweeney
Tancredo
Tanner
Tauzin
Taylor (MS)
Taylor (NC)
Terry
Thomas
Thompson (CA)
Thornberry
Tiahrt
Tiberi
Toomey
Turner (OH)
Turner (TX)
Upton
Vitter
Walden (OR)
Walsh
Wamp
Weldon (FL)
Weldon (PA)
Weller
Whitfield
Wicker
Wilson (NM)
Wilson (SC)
Wolf
Young (AK)
Young (FL)
NOT VOTING--11
Boyd
Cooper
Houghton
Hyde
Lewis (CA)
Lewis (GA)
Lucas (OK)
McCarthy (MO)
Meeks (NY)
Peterson (PA)
Ryun (KS)
Announcement by the Chairman Pro Tempore
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (during the vote). Members will be reminded
there are 2 minutes remaining in this vote. Two minutes, please.
{time} 1556
So the amendment was rejected.
The result of the vote was announced as above recorded.
Stated for:
Ms. DeLAURO. Mr. Chairman, I inadvertently voted ``no'' on rollcall
vote No. 121 today. I would like the Record to reflect that I intended
to vote ``aye.''
Amendment No. 4 Offered by Mr. Meehan
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The pending business is the demand for a
recorded vote on amendment No. 4 offered by the gentleman from
Massachusetts (Mr. Meehan) on which further proceedings were postponed
and on which the noes prevailed by voice vote.
The Clerk will redesignate the amendment.
The Clerk redesignated the amendment.
Recorded Vote
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. A recorded vote has been demanded.
A recorded vote was ordered.
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. This is a 5-minute vote.
The vote was taken by electronic device, and there were--ayes 144,
noes 280, not voting 10, as follows:
[Roll No. 122]
AYES--144
Abercrombie
Ackerman
Allen
Andrews
Baldwin
Ballance
Becerra
Bell
Berkley
Berman
Bishop (NY)
Blumenauer
Brady (PA)
Brown (OH)
Brown, Corrine
Capps
Capuano
Cardin
[[Page H2996]]
Carson (IN)
Case
Castle
Clay
Clyburn
Conyers
Crowley
Cummings
Davis (CA)
Davis (FL)
Davis (IL)
DeGette
Delahunt
DeLauro
Deutsch
Dicks
Doggett
Doyle
Emanuel
Engel
Eshoo
Evans
Farr
Fattah
Filner
Frank (MA)
Frost
Gephardt
Gonzalez
Grijalva
Gutierrez
Gutknecht
Harman
Hastings (FL)
Hinchey
Hoeffel
Holt
Honda
Hooley (OR)
Inslee
Israel
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Jefferson
Johnson, E. B.
Jones (OH)
Kennedy (RI)
Kildee
Kilpatrick
King (NY)
Kleczka
Kucinich
Langevin
Lantos
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lofgren
Lowey
Lynch
Majette
Maloney
Markey
Matsui
McCarthy (NY)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McNulty
Meehan
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller (NC)
Miller, George
Moore
Moran (VA)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal (MA)
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pascrell
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rangel
Rothman
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Schakowsky
Schiff
Scott (VA)
Serrano
Shays
Sherman
Slaughter
Smith (WA)
Snyder
Stark
Tauscher
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (CO)
Udall (NM)
Van Hollen
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Waxman
Weiner
Wexler
Woolsey
Wu
Wynn
NOES--280
Akin
Alexander
Baca
Bachus
Baird
Baker
Ballenger
Barrett (SC)
Bartlett (MD)
Barton (TX)
Bass
Beauprez
Bereuter
Berry
Biggert
Bilirakis
Bishop (GA)
Bishop (UT)
Blackburn
Blunt
Boehlert
Boehner
Bonilla
Bonner
Bono
Boozman
Boucher
Bradley (NH)
Brady (TX)
Brown (SC)
Brown-Waite, Ginny
Burgess
Burns
Burr
Burton (IN)
Buyer
Calvert
Camp
Cannon
Cantor
Capito
Cardoza
Carson (OK)
Carter
Chabot
Chocola
Coble
Cole
Collins
Combest
Cooper
Costello
Cox
Cramer
Crane
Crenshaw
Cubin
Culberson
Cunningham
Davis (AL)
Davis (TN)
Davis, Jo Ann
Davis, Tom
Deal (GA)
DeFazio
DeLay
DeMint
Diaz-Balart, L.
Diaz-Balart, M.
Dingell
Dooley (CA)
Doolittle
Dreier
Duncan
Dunn
Edwards
Ehlers
Emerson
English
Etheridge
Everett
Feeney
Ferguson
Flake
Fletcher
Foley
Forbes
Ford
Fossella
Franks (AZ)
Frelinghuysen
Gallegly
Garrett (NJ)
Gerlach
Gibbons
Gilchrest
Gillmor
Gingrey
Goode
Goodlatte
Gordon
Goss
Granger
Graves
Green (TX)
Green (WI)
Greenwood
Hall
Harris
Hart
Hastings (WA)
Hayes
Hayworth
Hefley
Hensarling
Herger
Hill
Hinojosa
Hobson
Hoekstra
Holden
Hostettler
Hoyer
Hulshof
Hunter
Isakson
Issa
Istook
Janklow
Jenkins
John
Johnson (CT)
Johnson (IL)
Johnson, Sam
Jones (NC)
Kanjorski
Kaptur
Keller
Kelly
Kennedy (MN)
Kind
King (IA)
Kingston
Kirk
Kline
Knollenberg
Kolbe
LaHood
Lampson
Larsen (WA)
Latham
LaTourette
Leach
Lewis (CA)
Lewis (KY)
Linder
Lipinski
LoBiondo
Lucas (KY)
Manzullo
Marshall
Matheson
McCotter
McCrery
McHugh
McInnis
McIntyre
McKeon
Mica
Michaud
Miller (FL)
Miller (MI)
Miller, Gary
Mollohan
Moran (KS)
Murphy
Murtha
Musgrave
Myrick
Nethercutt
Ney
Northup
Norwood
Nunes
Nussle
Oberstar
Ortiz
Osborne
Ose
Otter
Oxley
Paul
Pearce
Pence
Peterson (MN)
Petri
Pickering
Pitts
Platts
Pombo
Pomeroy
Porter
Portman
Pryce (OH)
Putnam
Quinn
Radanovich
Rahall
Ramstad
Regula
Rehberg
Renzi
Reyes
Reynolds
Rodriguez
Rogers (AL)
Rogers (KY)
Rogers (MI)
Rohrabacher
Ros-Lehtinen
Ross
Royce
Ruppersberger
Ryan (OH)
Ryan (WI)
Sanders
Sandlin
Saxton
Schrock
Scott (GA)
Sensenbrenner
Sessions
Shadegg
Shaw
Sherwood
Shimkus
Shuster
Simmons
Simpson
Skelton
Smith (MI)
Smith (NJ)
Smith (TX)
Souder
Spratt
Stearns
Stenholm
Strickland
Stupak
Sullivan
Sweeney
Tancredo
Tanner
Tauzin
Taylor (MS)
Taylor (NC)
Terry
Thomas
Thompson (CA)
Thornberry
Tiahrt
Tiberi
Toomey
Turner (OH)
Turner (TX)
Upton
Vitter
Walden (OR)
Walsh
Wamp
Weldon (FL)
Weldon (PA)
Weller
Whitfield
Wicker
Wilson (NM)
Wilson (SC)
Wolf
Young (AK)
Young (FL)
NOT VOTING--10
Aderholt
Boswell
Boyd
Houghton
Hyde
Lucas (OK)
McCarthy (MO)
Peterson (PA)
Ryun (KS)
Solis
Announcement by the Chairman pro tempore
The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. Quinn) (during the vote). Members are
advised 2 minutes remain in this vote.
{time} 1604
Mr. KELLER changed his vote from ``aye'' to ``no.''
So the amendment was rejected.
The result of the vote was announced as above recorded.
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I move that the Committee do now
rise.
The motion was agreed to.
Accordingly, the Committee rose; and the Speaker pro tempore (Mr.
Simpson) having assumed the chair, Mr. Quinn, Chairman pro tempore of
the Committee of the Whole House on the State of the Union, reported
that that Committee, having had under consideration the bill (H.R.
1036) to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or
continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of
firearms or ammunition for damages resulting from the misuse of their
products by others, had come to no resolution thereon.
____________________